Mr. Pakman, we demand more and longer collaborations between you and Mr. Steven Kenneth "Destiny" Bonnell II. Would love to see you guys do a Podcast-style format, maybe like once a month or so.
I read Destiny's name in that classic DPak over pronunciation. Great job. Also Def agree with your idea. It would be a cool temp check for both audiences.
I used to be extremely far-right racist/sexist/pdfile militia member in the deep woods of Kentucky but Destiny de-radicalized me. He is doing great work here in the world. He should be president one day if he deletes Twitter
he deradicalized me too. January 2021 going thru his debates at the time; some of which were with people I thought were smart like Lauren Southern and Fuentes and he just so clearly and absolutely wiped the floor with them and poked all sorts of holes in my ideology that I had never thought of before as a 19 year old upper middle class white kid sheltered in the suburbs. I was stuck in an echo chamber IRL but destiny destroyed my entire worldview and I realized how wrong I was about almost everything
He's easily top 5 in the world for people who are Cuban-American, gaming/political streaming, 35 yr old, youtuber with a nickname that's the same as a video game franchise. He really stands out amongst his peers
@@SpongeGod-YawehPants he's smart yes, but he also often just repeats talking points, especially on Israel/Palestine. He also, blurts immature sophomoric remarks on his streams. He also often stated hyperbolic sweeping generalizations. Just as a couple examples, "leftists don't really care about (insert issues that leftists care about)" and "no one really cares about the Palestinians". And his overuse of Wikipedia for "research", even to the point of using "Wikipedia" in his search terms.
@jacobosborn8584 and regardless, it's such a trivial pointless thing. Even 1000 people in a single building with a goal of overthrowing an election and committing violence is absolutely terrifying
honestly its very revealing to the state of right wing pundits when you have one of their most prominent ones actually saying, unironically "not thousands, two thousand!" LOL
thats misocontrued. Two thousand is the HIGHEST possible estimate. So to grant is 'thousands' is already a reach. and even more so when 'THOUSANDS' rhetorically implies much more of the bare minimum which would be two thousand. So this is a bare minimum of a bare minimum ofoucrse greenwald would push back with that word loading
Destiny makes 1 GREAT point. If you claim to be centrist or on the left, yet you see both sides as somehow equally bad....you are NOT a centrist or on the left. The Overton window has shifted too far.
I agree. The "both parties are bad" line shows the ignorance of the people who say this. Has the left tried to overthrow an election? No. Have the left tried to persecute anyone ever their political party affiliation? No. The courts are holding trump accountable for crimes he committed in their district. If Democrats did that many crimes, we would want to see them being held accountable for their crimes.
Seeing both sides doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with both sides. Also if you understand where an opposing side is coming from honestly, not just assume, then you stand a better chance of guiding them towards a more reasonable stance.
Let's keep shifting the goal posts. Liberal is center left. He's definitely not middle. Compare what being a right winger in this country meant in the Bush era to now. If we're going off of current definitions, there's no world in which Destiny leans right. He's less useful to the progressive project than most (probably why he and Pakman are such bros) but he's still a net positive @@AtomicMushroomz
Thanks for that wonderful interview David. It is imperative to highlight the organization of the canvassing events to the general public because it is certainly the most important thing right now. The first canvassing was a real success and we need to encourage the positive momentum that it creates.
Destiny was wrong about the talking point of corporations owning houses. As of June 2022, the report estimates that roughly 574,000 single-family homes nationwide were owned by institutional investors, defined as entities that owned at least 100 such homes. This comprises 3.8 percent of the 15.1 million single-unit rental properties in the US. Imagine if they did the stats for people who own more than 10 properties?
It is undeniable that Destiny is bringing fact based arguments to conspiracy-brained or radical groups and managing to bring them to a more rational level
@@carolinematusevich889It's a reference to Destiny's interview with Jessie Lee Peterson. Near the beginning, Peterson says "Destiny. That's a girl's name." It's been a running joke in Destiny's community ever since.
Ive always respected Destiny and David very much. There are too many leftists that are left on literally every issue and it's just infuriating because i think they feel they need to be part of a box or identity doing this and therefore prevents them from thinking critically.
Idk, I think if your general attitude is to move toward social equality, you're going to land on similar policies as the other people who lean toward social equality. It doesn't make a lot of sense to, say, promote respect for LGBT people but then promote cruelty toward immigrants.
Destiny is one of the rare people that i would like to hear talking more often with people with SIMILAR views. Every time there's an interview like this, his most interesting, nuanced, and deepest positions are discussed. As opposed to being limited to responding to the more common takes over and over
Can we get the Packman to join one of those canvassing event that are going to come up later this year. I think that would be so cool to see and David would also be a great person to get more "online" people involved int oactual on the ground work for the upcoming election :)
I hope David will encourage his massive number of followers to help in Destiny's canvassing efforts. With so many followers, combined with Destiny's huge following, we could all join up to make a real difference. It would help so many people feel that they're doing more than donating, or just watching TH-cam. To get his followers more involved and feeling more empowered would surely bring David a lot of satisfaction, and his followers as well. I dearly hope you make this happen.
This guy is a master of organizing and argument, I will give him that much, but his dismissive/aggressive attacks on people doing anti- racism work speaks volumes of how you get to a Trump cult of personality, which formed from the enraged backlash of electing the first black president (twice), storming of the capitol and all the rest. If you don't understand ALL of this is about RACE, and maintaining white supremacy then identical to the right wingers he insults and degrades exists the blindness of false identity. This was never about white people disagreeing on taxes so vehemently that half of them wanted to overthrow the government, not to say he thinks this but he may as well because just like them the evidence of America's original sin STILL dominating every aspect of politics and culture could not be more abundant or clear. People deny the truth because it makes them feel bad, it's that simple, not just online or in heated debates but alone in private with your own thoughts you know what this country is about and it's painful, but it's good to feel pain it means there maybe something worth saving 😮
Before watching this I might not have liked @ek9696 comment. But after? 👍🏼 It appears David P. has pivoted to misinformation and chasing views. This Israel issue really erases the political veneer . And spotlights folks humane core… I was so close to joining… 🤷♂️
it's crazy how anything with "truth" in its name is ALWAYS the LEAST factually accurate thing on the internet there are no facts on the ground that support a pro-palestine stance, none, and you guys don't care you just want israel to not exist but for whatever reason most of you feel like you can't say that so you have to pretend their conduct is somehow wrong even though they go above and beyond any other country in history in regard to warning civilians and as a result their civilian-combatant death ratio manages to be the best of any conflict in the region even WITH hamas actively and openly trying to increase the numbers of their own civilian casualties lol.
Pakman do you know what is happen in GAZA?????? I can't hear you..... You lost my support because of that. don't you have an opinion on that issue? sorry about my english. I m from Portugal
try and figure out your actual thoughts before you worry about your english skills. your english is fine but the actual ideas don't make sense. you think he doesn't know about gaza? you have been supporting pakman in some way before this and have now stopped this somehow?
He skirts a fine line knowing his entire base is vehemently anti-vaccine. So he just doesn't bring it up anymore. He got booed at his own rally last time he brought it up
Destiny’s empathetic debate style is AWESOME! His debate with Ben Shapiro was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Asking thoughtful questions to Ben was so effective and educational.
I have a lot of conservative family members. My husband is a conservative. From what I personally see they aren’t attacking police they are attacking the FBI and DOJ. But that’s just my personal experience. Also I agree with Destiny about the vaccine issue. It used to be the vegan liberal types that were anti vax.
@@morphkogan8627 No I get that. I also think the Uvalde shooting he was eluding to wasn’t totally fair. The disgust people had over the cowardice that occurred wasn’t political.
The issue is that supporting FBI and the DOJ under your guy as they investigate your enemies isnt a true value when you flip the moment they investigate you.
These two are definitely on the left when it comes to social issues besides extreme left examples. Economically, both are pro-capitalist plus welfare state aka social democracy which is considered to be in the center. I hope to see the day when both of these guys realize that a system in which profit is priority and wage workers have virtually no say over the powerful minority is incredibly unethical and the root problem to almost every other problem we have in society (poverty, environmental destruction, war, etc.). This system (capitalism) incentivizes businesses to treat workers like objects and to buy politicians to make laws that let the wealthy accumulate and concentrate more wealth. A welfare state is just a good way to stop people from revolting. We need a federal law that requires all businesses of a certain size to become democratic. So far, nobody has convinced me that doing this wouldn’t be better than what we have now. I’m surprised at the amount of people I talk to online that are anti-democracy. That being said, I still appreciate both these guys in many respects with their intelligence and ability to articulate their ideas effectively to people with opposing views and changing minds.
I used to think the same as you did. It took a bit for me to change my mind, but ultimately, and I didn't consider this as much as I should have when I did think that way, but we legitimately have no evidence to support what enforcing a regulation like that would do to the country. We have some examples of attempted socialism and they all failed. I wouldn't have believed it myself when I considered myself a socialist. I used to love listening to Richard Wolff until I heard his debate with destiny lol
@@50colt30Productions I could give you evidence showing that democratic workplaces in fact do work. There’s really no reason as to why they wouldn’t. There’s already worker coops in the economy and studies show that their productivity is the same if not better than for profit businesses of the same industry. I’m not even advocating for just any type of socialism. I just want institutions to be democratic. I also listened to his debate with destiny and it was pretty bad faith on both sides which was disappointing since they both are smart guys in many respects and could’ve had some better results.
@@Sir_Charles007 Historically, they have been considered socialist at times but the working class doesn’t own the means of production under that system therefore, by definition, it wouldn’t be socialist.
Love Destiny. Don’t agree w him on everything but I LOVE his politics and his perspective. He’s extremely solid. And he’s willing to debate honestly. That’s vital
These debates are a good thing! I enjoy watching them as it is the best way to get the opposing viewpoint. Far too many political commenters want to explain the other side. They almost always miss the mark at least a little bit. The debates usually get people to explain and defend their own position. Something far more valuable to someone looking to understand both sides of the argument.
This man has put things in such incredible perspective for me in such a relatively short time. It's a blessing he debates and regularly engages with people and ideas that are against his own, especially as a former hard-line conservative. Go Steven!!
Really interesting talk but I’m a little confused. Destiney is all for building more houses but why is he against rent control or affordable housing for homeless? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but I’d like other perspectives let me know in the comments
Iirc hes against rent control because its disincentivices the building of new houses making the main problem of too many people wanting to live in an area worse. And I haven't heard him talk about affordable housing outside of this video but I'm guessing its just the normal argument about supply and demand. If the supply is lacking building substandard (affordable) housing wont actually decrease the sale price as the supply and demand stays the same.
Because the primary issue is lack of supply due to shit Zoning laws and NIMBYism. Rent control probably causes more problems then it solves, and it certainly doesn't fix the route cause, which is lack of supply. Rent control is a problematic artificial lowering of prices. WE NEED MORE HOUSING. That simple
@@morphkogan8627 but then if it’s not affordable how are homeless supposed to be able to live there. Is it free? I’m not coming from a bad faith angle I promise promise promise I like having these conversations cause I want to learn more ☺️
@@daviddavidson6278 gonna ask the same question cause i wanna know if your answer is the same. but then if it’s not affordable how are homeless supposed to be able to live there. Is it free? I’m not coming from a bad faith angle I promise promise promise I like having these conversations cause I want to learn more ☺️
Thank you both for your perspectives in advance whenever you write them I know internet can be a place with awful people but I thank you for educating me further 😊
I knew destiny was a Google debater. No….. Google doesn’t have a particular bias or a monopoly on propaganda, I mean information, at all, they are nonpartisan for sure.
Google only returns LIBERAL books, encyclopedia articles, and news, that's why I synthesize my worldview from tweets, TH-cam, and snippets from tiktok. capitalism is done for!! we got this, guys!! 💪💪
To be honest wealthy Chinese people have been speculating on housing in Canada and it has become a problem. IDK how big of an issue it is in the us though
@@gattearthrid You are the one talking about global politics and how America is right wing on that scale... So where do you put Sharia law following nations with an active monarchy in power, with the most social welfare like Saudi Arabia?
@@epicphailure88 Firstly Dumbo, i'm not your 'bro' and I never will be, save that for your boy scout mates. We have all seen him participate in numerous debates, in various forums, without the use of any "Wikipedia reading." You have to assume that what he says is what he knows, whether it comes from Wikipedia or other valid sources, it doesn't matter. You are ignorant and uninformed.
My ears can't keep up! I admire Destiny but, please slow down a bit... People need to be able to assimilate your point as you speak or else it is no more informative than the disclaimers after investment commercials. Thanks for having Destiny on your show, David.
Not surprising, Destiny and Vaush are both despicable and honestly I'm being turned away by Pakman by him being amiable to a guy who has been openly racist on multiple occasions. I literally can't quote the things he has said without being moderated.
I heard this statement like 3 times. Could you please break down what you mean by this. This is an actual question. I don't understand the humor or context? Is it because the name and the connotation that Destiny is a black woman's name? I guess that is what makes me confused. There are many women of different races who have the name Destiny. Are you unaware of that? So that's what's confusing. Is this supposed to be funny? It sounds very Moynahan report.
How you doing this morning Dave ?? Ya ok? Good news , you can bring back the angry, outraged , resist , “not my president!” Persona now !! It’s like you got your muse back !! It’ll be so 2016! Can’t wait 😂
Finally, good that David and Destiny talked about some hypocritical progressives that often preach inclusivity don't actually follow what they preach. They behave condescendingly against other progressives who believe in the same policies but want to approach them differently (may be pragmatic or realistic that they don't like). I notice a portion of audiences are getting tired of these condescending progressives who are behaving like the angry right grifters and frequently criticize whoever they disagree with (their values or opinions). At the same time they are not giving the audiences the comprehensive view of all sides, or not having understanding on certain topics (naive), or not aware of their obsession on certain topics, or not offering solutions that make sense to the specific time period (unrealistic).
@@itsROMPERS... Vaush (DavidP responded to him once here). Another well-known channel is TYT (main channel). It had changed towards more reactionary with their commentaries, and often negative towards with democrats. TYT and others notable ones are sometimes guilty of misinforming their audiences on certain topics that aren't familiar with or don't have the complete facts. That is stem by their obsession (e.g., Democracy Now ) on specific US policy that they dislike. Example - Brittany Page responded to TYT 's discussion on homeless's housing issue.
So because someone agrees with you, you can not criticize them? Also your biggest gripe is people being condescending. Really? Sorry your feeling get hurt when someone talks to you, but that sounds like more of a you problem.
Dialogue is different then debates. You have to in a dialogue accept as a hypothetical who you are dialoging. It is in accepting the deconstructed hypothetical that all participants have the possibility of new discoveries that could fine tune both sides understanding of what the issues are.
say what you will but as a young person destiny’s “gamergate” era is was really appealing to me and deradicalized me from the right and introduced me to sam seder and david pakman
My introduction to Destiny was through the subreddit so I came into this video expecting him to sound much more conservative and aggressive against progressive policy. His reddit fans definitely do not do him favors.
I have only recently given some of Destiny's content a try. Even coming directly from his channel, I was surprised how reasonable and sensible he sounded here. Idk, I guess he earned some more chances, but I'm not convinced this is a true representation. Maybe cuz this is about sharing audience he was trying to be more appealing? 🤷♂️
@@GP-qz6kk how he is here is the same as he is in the ben shapiro debate and his interview with Lex Fridman. I think he just behaves professionally in more structured settings like this, but when hes livestreaming hes unashamedly himself and has no filter/doesnt care to be professional
Destiny’s subreddit is actually more representative of his usual attitude than you think. He knows Pakman is a neolib so he’s on his ‘podcast/treating conservatives with kiddie gloves’ level of aggression here, but the moment he goes back to his own stream or catches a scent of ‘Medicare for All’ or ‘Let’s not genocide Palestinians’ Destiny will fly off his rocker and start screeching his usual routine where he cries about ‘DiPsHiT LefTiES’ 🤣
Is this a little Hasan/Vaush cope party? Look at all these claims with not a single fact backing them up. Tsk tsk. Makes sense given your ideologue models. Don't worry, I'll back my claim up. Destiny's model: 1. "Don't memorize my takes, learn the process I took to arrive at them." 2. "Never ever read just the headline, 80% don't and the titles follow the TH-cam title click-🎣" 3. "Most people who claim they've 'studied up on a subject' that conversation has left you dubious about their knowledge have only watched a youtube video or heard about the subject on a podcast (And think they learned more than they actually did)." Your turn. Each provide supporting facts.
having facts on your side is useless against a debate opponent who has their own facts and lives in their own reality. My issue with the majority of pro-palestinian debaters is that they are also (most of the time) vehemently anti-Israel. Case in point is Sam Seder's podcast. They are so all-in on supporting Palestine that they couldn't even be bothered to acknowledge that Hamas has done a barbaric thing with their attack. A condemnation of Hamas doesn't have to mean you don't support the people of Gaza. I'm really worried the left won't be fully united when election time comes, because there's loads of possible anti-Trump voters who will throw out the baby with the bath-water because they think Biden is helping the great Satan, Israel.
Hard agree with everything you said. The majority report with Sam sedar, TYT, the rational national and the humanist report are all very biased pro palestinian/hamas and anti israel and aren't hiding it. They ignore the historical context and haven't once denounced what hamas did on October 7th. Even before israel responded in the days after the attacks, Emma viegland and tyt were playing the "israel is an oppressor card" and implying that hamas was justified. They're complete garbage far left progressives just as bad as far right MAGA but on the opposite side of the political spectrum. These same people were the ones making fun of the 5 men and kid who died in that sub over the summer simply because they were billionaires. Was it risky and dumb what they did? Yes but humanist report and Mike were making fun of their horrible deaths.
What are you talking about? From what I've seen, nearly every prominent speaker for the left has been asked to condemn Hamas' actions, and most have done so. Furthermore, if someone's pro-Palestine, of course, they'll be anti-Israel. What else could they be?
The tragedy of young voters is not their ideology but their failure to bother to vote at all. They fail their fundamental responsibilities as citizens.
Destiny is a very smart guy as is Pakman. Having said that...the idea that debates on Palestine/Israel is going on with Wikipedia reading and a few source documents is some mix of hilarious and a dash of depressing.
Hasn't Packman complained about Corporate Dems??? Why? Aren't they on the same side?? Isn't the "leftists" calling him out, the same as him calling out corporate Dems?? Guys, don't be so sensitive. If some people from the left, Kids as you call them, call you out for something....maybe come up with a good argument to back up your views. It is stronger than complaining about being criticized.
i think destiny is beneath your caliber david, he shows he is willing to be less than progressive whenever anyone criticizes him. multiple gross lash outs of his are far and wide on the internet.
The bridge is intact boys.
do wokeists hate destiny like him or are impartial? I am a right-moderate troll that loves trans kids but destiny is pretty smart IMO
@@TransKidsMafia May I ask what's up with your brain?
@@cbussey4676 r u able to answer the question or are you waiting for a consensus to attach to?
@@TransKidsMafia your string of words barely has any relationship to reality.. i dont even know where to start
@@cbussey4676 👌🏼👌🏼 u shall get many likes from fellow illiterate fks. My newborn is trans.
Mr. Pakman, we demand more and longer collaborations between you and Mr. Steven Kenneth "Destiny" Bonnell II. Would love to see you guys do a Podcast-style format, maybe like once a month or so.
I read Destiny's name in that classic DPak over pronunciation. Great job. Also Def agree with your idea. It would be a cool temp check for both audiences.
would love this
You forgot to put "former Goransson" in there for good mesure.
I agree. Both can have their wives get railed by other men
Once destiny realises Pakman is an obvious CIA plant he won't come back
I used to be extremely far-right racist/sexist/pdfile militia member in the deep woods of Kentucky but Destiny de-radicalized me. He is doing great work here in the world. He should be president one day if he deletes Twitter
He's too emotionally volatile to be a politician tbh, I'd see him in a cabinet/support role more than anything
That Mark Lamont Hill debate was a really good one, I watch Lamont’s channel, he does a great job in his discussions.
he deradicalized me too. January 2021 going thru his debates at the time; some of which were with people I thought were smart like Lauren Southern and Fuentes and he just so clearly and absolutely wiped the floor with them and poked all sorts of holes in my ideology that I had never thought of before as a 19 year old upper middle class white kid sheltered in the suburbs. I was stuck in an echo chamber IRL but destiny destroyed my entire worldview and I realized how wrong I was about almost everything
Wow brother you’ve been on a political journey. He needs to convince me then why I shouldn’t be a communist
@@AgentMullet Nick Fuentes is a loon.
Steven Kenneth “Destiny” Bonnel II is at least one of the top 10 most renowned Cuban American gaming/political streamers out there.
He's easily top 5 in the world for people who are Cuban-American, gaming/political streaming, 35 yr old, youtuber with a nickname that's the same as a video game franchise.
He really stands out amongst his peers
That’s a girls name
@@piratees yea if the girl was AWESOME, you mean
Love the necessary qualifiers. Also, pseudo-intellectual hack.
@@SpongeGod-YawehPants he's smart yes, but he also often just repeats talking points, especially on Israel/Palestine. He also, blurts immature sophomoric remarks on his streams. He also often stated hyperbolic sweeping generalizations. Just as a couple examples, "leftists don't really care about (insert issues that leftists care about)" and "no one really cares about the Palestinians". And his overuse of Wikipedia for "research", even to the point of using "Wikipedia" in his search terms.
Wow can't believe you guys got into a fist fight live. What a sight to see.
@3TNT3 at 31:50
@usucdik it doesn't go to the timestamp you're referencing?
@@ryderoreilly9807 Huh, thats weird. Have you tried pressing Alt+F4? Might do the trick.
@@toddy914 what is this, a counterstrike lobby in the year 2001?
@@littlejerryseinfeld4168😂
"Not thousands, two thousand!" - a flustered Glenn Greenwald reaches after getting embarrassed by Steven Kenneth "Destiny" Bonnell II
@jacobosborn8584 and regardless, it's such a trivial pointless thing.
Even 1000 people in a single building with a goal of overthrowing an election and committing violence is absolutely terrifying
honestly its very revealing to the state of right wing pundits when you have one of their most prominent ones actually saying, unironically "not thousands, two thousand!" LOL
Not the son of Steven Bonnell, it's Steven Bonnell II
thats misocontrued. Two thousand is the HIGHEST possible estimate. So to grant is 'thousands' is already a reach. and even more so when 'THOUSANDS' rhetorically implies much more of the bare minimum which would be two thousand. So this is a bare minimum of a bare minimum ofoucrse greenwald would push back with that word loading
except it wasnt over a thousand with the single goal of overthrowin the election and commiting violence@@100AcreWoodz1
Pak and Steven.. we need more of it!!!!!
I think David should stay away from Destiny-an admitted consumer of drawn CP.
I wonder if Hasan would join them for a discussion next time .. LOL
@@mofishin2648he’s too busy asking terrorists what anime they like. Hard hitting journalism you know?
@@HeyHiHowdy6969 He also does canvassing.. In his gated community and at the AVN awards .. lol
@@Eon-Bluewhat are you talking about?
Your confusing destiny with vaush clearly.
Destiny makes 1 GREAT point. If you claim to be centrist or on the left, yet you see both sides as somehow equally bad....you are NOT a centrist or on the left. The Overton window has shifted too far.
either that or you have shit political parties.
I agree. The "both parties are bad" line shows the ignorance of the people who say this. Has the left tried to overthrow an election? No. Have the left tried to persecute anyone ever their political party affiliation? No. The courts are holding trump accountable for crimes he committed in their district. If Democrats did that many crimes, we would want to see them being held accountable for their crimes.
yup, it's because there are only two parties in the US@@tacocanada1888
TYT, cenk and Anna have entered the chat
Seeing both sides doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with both sides. Also if you understand where an opposing side is coming from honestly, not just assume, then you stand a better chance of guiding them towards a more reasonable stance.
Always love to see David and Destiny together. 😄
My favorite was when discussing Rittenhouse, he asked if he was autistic. ❤
@@duffman247 😭😭😭
Packman fears Destiny. Destiny likes Packman although he could destroy him. Packman is funny.
Great discussion, thanks for having Destiny on, David!
Destiny wanted BLM protesters mowed down by a vehicle. And he has defended vaush’s loli collection. So
Nice. Liberal Cuban Americans are a rare find in US. Destiny brings me hope for them, like he's planting mustard seeds.
He's not really liberal
I wonder why a lot of Cuban Americans aren't liberal... What could it possibly be...? 🤔😅
Let's keep shifting the goal posts. Liberal is center left. He's definitely not middle. Compare what being a right winger in this country meant in the Bush era to now. If we're going off of current definitions, there's no world in which Destiny leans right. He's less useful to the progressive project than most (probably why he and Pakman are such bros) but he's still a net positive @@AtomicMushroomz
What is he then??
@@AtomicMushroomz
@@SmilingIslandRetreat-pn4dd He's not really liberal tho.
Thanks for that wonderful interview David. It is imperative to highlight the organization of the canvassing events to the general public because it is certainly the most important thing right now. The first canvassing was a real success and we need to encourage the positive momentum that it creates.
Destiny was wrong about the talking point of corporations owning houses.
As of June 2022, the report estimates that roughly 574,000 single-family homes nationwide were owned by institutional investors, defined as entities that owned at least 100 such homes. This comprises 3.8 percent of the 15.1 million single-unit rental properties in the US.
Imagine if they did the stats for people who own more than 10 properties?
It is undeniable that Destiny is bringing fact based arguments to conspiracy-brained or radical groups and managing to bring them to a more rational level
He doesn't though
An interview with a Woman is always nice to see!
?????? 🤔
@@carolinematusevich889 its an inside joke because Destiny is a womans name
@@carolinematusevich889It's a reference to Destiny's interview with Jessie Lee Peterson. Near the beginning, Peterson says "Destiny. That's a girl's name." It's been a running joke in Destiny's community ever since.
@@nrein89wow it wasn't even transphobic until JLP made it so
Thank you! Please keep it up! Would be great if you both have regular conversations throughout the year leading up to the election.
I'm glad black women like Destiny are getting represented on the Dpac show.
????? 🤔
Diversity is our strength!
@@carolinematusevich889 this is the standard joke from those who listen to Destiny/
@@unusual686well it's stale dumb and not remotely funny.
lol.
Really happy to see these two together
Really enjoy both of these guys.
What a very interesting interview, would love to see them on your channel more
Ive always respected Destiny and David very much. There are too many leftists that are left on literally every issue and it's just infuriating because i think they feel they need to be part of a box or identity doing this and therefore prevents them from thinking critically.
yep, that is the nature of ideological thinking. There is always going to be a blockage of critical thinking at some point...
I honestly don’t understand how any sane adult could be right or left on every issue. It doesn’t compute to me
@@brianmeen2158 Which issues are there good faith reasons to tilt right on? Because there are degrees of "how left" you are on an issue.
Idk, I think if your general attitude is to move toward social equality, you're going to land on similar policies as the other people who lean toward social equality. It doesn't make a lot of sense to, say, promote respect for LGBT people but then promote cruelty toward immigrants.
@@vicwaters87is that a genuine question? Do you really think there is no issue in which a more conservative perspective has any merit?
Destiny is one of the rare people that i would like to hear talking more often with people with SIMILAR views. Every time there's an interview like this, his most interesting, nuanced, and deepest positions are discussed. As opposed to being limited to responding to the more common takes over and over
good to hear from Stephanus Bonnellii Africanus II
Stephanus Bonnellii Africanus II
:D
Holy moly, MAGA at the limit of their intellect.
@@JR-pr8jb just giving a shoutout to our Afro-Greco-Roman-Cuban Queen. Hope DPak collabs more this year
@@BizarreIoveTriangle Yass Qween! 😍
Is this lore I missed? I’m so confused haha
Please do a weekly discussion or full-fledged podcast together! We need more of these measured, reasonable discussions on the left. Seriously.
My favorite lgbt afro-cuban streamer!
You guys are great to listen to! Thanks for the hard work
I like that Destiny debates others and wants to engage on ideas.
Unless the issue is on Israel and gaza then he just sides with israel no matter what.
David, sir, I always enjoy your chats with Miss Destiny. 🇨🇺 🇦🇷
Having never been the biggest fan of destiny this interview has made me understand him on a much deeper level. Thanks
Always love seeing these two together
I enjoyed this conversation, thank you 😊
What a skilled debater...
...He convinced me, i now hold every position that this Steven guy does
You know, this relationship might just unironically be the healthiest thing in the online pol space. If not healthiest, definitely the cutest.
Keep up the good work, David. Your interviews are important, meaningful, and illuminating! They clarify and don't obfuscate.
Love these guys
Can we get the Packman to join one of those canvassing event that are going to come up later this year.
I think that would be so cool to see and David would also be a great person to get more "online" people involved int oactual on the ground work for the upcoming election :)
I hope David will encourage his massive number of followers to help in Destiny's canvassing efforts. With so many followers, combined with Destiny's huge following, we could all join up to make a real difference. It would help so many people feel that they're doing more than donating, or just watching TH-cam. To get his followers more involved and feeling more empowered would surely bring David a lot of satisfaction, and his followers as well. I dearly hope you make this happen.
Great conversation.
Wonderful conversation
This guy is a master of organizing and argument, I will give him that much, but his dismissive/aggressive attacks on people doing anti- racism work speaks volumes of how you get to a Trump cult of personality, which formed from the enraged backlash of electing the first black president (twice), storming of the capitol and all the rest. If you don't understand ALL of this is about RACE, and maintaining white supremacy then identical to the right wingers he insults and degrades exists the blindness of false identity. This was never about white people disagreeing on taxes so vehemently that half of them wanted to overthrow the government, not to say he thinks this but he may as well because just like them the evidence of America's original sin STILL dominating every aspect of politics and culture could not be more abundant or clear. People deny the truth because it makes them feel bad, it's that simple, not just online or in heated debates but alone in private with your own thoughts you know what this country is about and it's painful, but it's good to feel pain it means there maybe something worth saving 😮
Honestly, these two deserve each other.
It's incredible that we live in a world where somebody (you) says something of no substance and it still results in "likes."
Before watching this I might not have liked @ek9696 comment. But after? 👍🏼
It appears David P. has pivoted to misinformation and chasing views. This Israel issue really erases the political veneer . And spotlights folks humane core…
I was so close to joining… 🤷♂️
Two of the biggest jew apologists of the online left
it's crazy how anything with "truth" in its name is ALWAYS the LEAST factually accurate thing on the internet
there are no facts on the ground that support a pro-palestine stance, none, and you guys don't care you just want israel to not exist but for whatever reason most of you feel like you can't say that so you have to pretend their conduct is somehow wrong even though they go above and beyond any other country in history in regard to warning civilians and as a result their civilian-combatant death ratio manages to be the best of any conflict in the region even WITH hamas actively and openly trying to increase the numbers of their own civilian casualties lol.
Great Interview! Destiny Rules!
We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.
this is awesome david.
awesome stuff Dave & Steven!
Two snowflakes just sucking each other off like they are some superior moral beings lmao.. yea great stuff
Pakman do you know what is happen in GAZA?????? I can't hear you..... You lost my support because of that. don't you have an opinion on that issue? sorry about my english. I m from Portugal
try and figure out your actual thoughts before you worry about your english skills. your english is fine but the actual ideas don't make sense. you think he doesn't know about gaza? you have been supporting pakman in some way before this and have now stopped this somehow?
One thing to note: Trump supports the vaccine, he’s always wanted the credit for that.
He skirts a fine line knowing his entire base is vehemently anti-vaccine. So he just doesn't bring it up anymore. He got booed at his own rally last time he brought it up
Much like you did ?
@@EvidenceOfTheDivine huh?
@@ImDanWhoAreYou don't play dumb, did you support the vaccine or didn't you ?
Holy cow the dude talks fast. I had to check my playback speed.
Destiny’s empathetic debate style is AWESOME! His debate with Ben Shapiro was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Asking thoughtful questions to Ben was so effective and educational.
This is an awesome interview. Thank you, David Pakman, for bringing Destiny on as a guest speaker. Great questions and great answers.
I don’t agree with some of Destiny’s positions but I have tremendous respect for him. He’s willing to fight the good fight in a rational manner
I have a lot of conservative family members. My husband is a conservative. From what I personally see they aren’t attacking police they are attacking the FBI and DOJ. But that’s just my personal experience. Also I agree with Destiny about the vaccine issue. It used to be the vegan liberal types that were anti vax.
I think he agrees with both of those points. I think he just didn't flesh it out properly when he said it.
@@morphkogan8627 No I get that. I also think the Uvalde shooting he was eluding to wasn’t totally fair. The disgust people had over the cowardice that occurred wasn’t political.
The FBI is a national police and law enforcement agency. Historically it's always been extremely right-wing, and strongly supported by them.
The issue is that supporting FBI and the DOJ under your guy as they investigate your enemies isnt a true value when you flip the moment they investigate you.
They totally attack any Police Officers who were at The Capitol on January 6th.
Does D. have a podcast?
I feel sorry for the first two people to step up against a DPak/Destiny duo debate. Make it happen!
These two are definitely on the left when it comes to social issues besides extreme left examples. Economically, both are pro-capitalist plus welfare state aka social democracy which is considered to be in the center.
I hope to see the day when both of these guys realize that a system in which profit is priority and wage workers have virtually no say over the powerful minority is incredibly unethical and the root problem to almost every other problem we have in society (poverty, environmental destruction, war, etc.). This system (capitalism) incentivizes businesses to treat workers like objects and to buy politicians to make laws that let the wealthy accumulate and concentrate more wealth. A welfare state is just a good way to stop people from revolting. We need a federal law that requires all businesses of a certain size to become democratic. So far, nobody has convinced me that doing this wouldn’t be better than what we have now. I’m surprised at the amount of people I talk to online that are anti-democracy.
That being said, I still appreciate both these guys in many respects with their intelligence and ability to articulate their ideas effectively to people with opposing views and changing minds.
I used to think the same as you did. It took a bit for me to change my mind, but ultimately, and I didn't consider this as much as I should have when I did think that way, but we legitimately have no evidence to support what enforcing a regulation like that would do to the country. We have some examples of attempted socialism and they all failed. I wouldn't have believed it myself when I considered myself a socialist. I used to love listening to Richard Wolff until I heard his debate with destiny lol
@@50colt30Productions I could give you evidence showing that democratic workplaces in fact do work. There’s really no reason as to why they wouldn’t. There’s already worker coops in the economy and studies show that their productivity is the same if not better than for profit businesses of the same industry. I’m not even advocating for just any type of socialism. I just want institutions to be democratic.
I also listened to his debate with destiny and it was pretty bad faith on both sides which was disappointing since they both are smart guys in many respects and could’ve had some better results.
Social democracy is a form of socialism though, left center if you want to put it that way.
@@Sir_Charles007 Historically, they have been considered socialist at times but the working class doesn’t own the means of production under that system therefore, by definition, it wouldn’t be socialist.
Huge fans of both! Keep it up!
Destiny is single-handedly trying to save America through debate and discourse.
Love Destiny. Don’t agree w him on everything but I LOVE his politics and his perspective. He’s extremely solid. And he’s willing to debate honestly. That’s vital
He’s a POS, look up when he wanted BLM protesters mowed down with a vehicle. Or when he defended vaush’s cp collection
These debates are a good thing! I enjoy watching them as it is the best way to get the opposing viewpoint. Far too many political commenters want to explain the other side. They almost always miss the mark at least a little bit. The debates usually get people to explain and defend their own position. Something far more valuable to someone looking to understand both sides of the argument.
This man has put things in such incredible perspective for me in such a relatively short time. It's a blessing he debates and regularly engages with people and ideas that are against his own, especially as a former hard-line conservative. Go Steven!!
Good conversation. Glad you guys are still talking.
Really interesting talk but I’m a little confused. Destiney is all for building more houses but why is he against rent control or affordable housing for homeless? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but I’d like other perspectives let me know in the comments
Iirc hes against rent control because its disincentivices the building of new houses making the main problem of too many people wanting to live in an area worse. And I haven't heard him talk about affordable housing outside of this video but I'm guessing its just the normal argument about supply and demand. If the supply is lacking building substandard (affordable) housing wont actually decrease the sale price as the supply and demand stays the same.
Because the primary issue is lack of supply due to shit Zoning laws and NIMBYism. Rent control probably causes more problems then it solves, and it certainly doesn't fix the route cause, which is lack of supply. Rent control is a problematic artificial lowering of prices. WE NEED MORE HOUSING. That simple
@@morphkogan8627 but then if it’s not affordable how are homeless supposed to be able to live there. Is it free? I’m not coming from a bad faith angle I promise promise promise I like having these conversations cause I want to learn more ☺️
@@daviddavidson6278 gonna ask the same question cause i wanna know if your answer is the same. but then if it’s not affordable how are homeless supposed to be able to live there. Is it free? I’m not coming from a bad faith angle I promise promise promise I like having these conversations cause I want to learn more ☺️
Thank you both for your perspectives in advance whenever you write them I know internet can be a place with awful people but I thank you for educating me further 😊
I knew destiny was a Google debater. No….. Google doesn’t have a particular bias or a monopoly on propaganda, I mean information, at all, they are nonpartisan for sure.
Google only returns LIBERAL books, encyclopedia articles, and news, that's why I synthesize my worldview from tweets, TH-cam, and snippets from tiktok. capitalism is done for!! we got this, guys!! 💪💪
Goddam I love both of you. Love seeing you guys on each others' platforms. Even if Destiny IS a girl's name.
Wonderful interview
Nice to see Pakman trying to meet his female guest quota.
To be honest wealthy Chinese people have been speculating on housing in Canada and it has become a problem. IDK how big of an issue it is in the us though
A debate about debates. Just what we need.
This came off as a debate to you? They didn't actually disagree on anything.
I'd like to debate you on whether or not this was a debate. I don't think it was.
Debate perverts…
@@Boroburand-py7eu debate
It’s pretty simple folks. Do you want to live in a society that works for the majority of its citizens, or not?
Love both these guys. Much insight as to their approach to debates and hope,they continue their participation. We need these voices out there.
All I see is David talking to a strong independent black woman
American center is already right on a geopolitics scale. Perspective matters. Your content is on a global platform 🤷♂️
Wait until you learn about Middle Eastern politics bahaha
@@rmac3217 destiny is middle eastern? I thought he was American
@@gattearthrid You are the one talking about global politics and how America is right wing on that scale... So where do you put Sharia law following nations with an active monarchy in power, with the most social welfare like Saudi Arabia?
@@rmac3217 in the same nutty bread basket with the maga folk. Religious authoritarians are typically considered far right.
another one from "Bernie would actually be center right in Europe" crowd. The year 2016 called, it wants its shitty political takes back
Destiny is, hands down, one of the best debaters on the internet.
lmfao, you're mental.
Literally means nothing in the real world or to normies.
@@maruraba1478 could say that about anything on "the internet" doesn't really say much
Which means nothing. Debate bro culture is stupid af. Destiny mostly just reads Wikipedia.
@@epicphailure88 Firstly Dumbo, i'm not your 'bro' and I never will be, save that for your boy scout mates.
We have all seen him participate in numerous debates, in various forums, without the use of any "Wikipedia reading."
You have to assume that what he says is what he knows, whether it comes from Wikipedia or other valid sources, it doesn't matter.
You are ignorant and uninformed.
My ears can't keep up! I admire Destiny but, please slow down a bit... People need to be able to assimilate your point as you speak or else it is no more informative than the disclaimers after investment commercials. Thanks for having Destiny on your show, David.
Vaush came from this dude's fanbase
Wasn’t that 🐴🍆🌽🍭 kicked out for se*ually harassing women in the community?
Not surprising, Destiny and Vaush are both despicable and honestly I'm being turned away by Pakman by him being amiable to a guy who has been openly racist on multiple occasions. I literally can't quote the things he has said without being moderated.
@@neilochopenly racist?
Now they pretty much hate each other.
@@neiloch Wow wait what can you censor it? Or point me in a direction to find this? I thought he was ok
Finally some representation having a well spoken black woman on the program. Great stuff David!
I heard this statement like 3 times. Could you please break down what you mean by this. This is an actual question. I don't understand the humor or context? Is it because the name and the connotation that Destiny is a black woman's name? I guess that is what makes me confused. There are many women of different races who have the name Destiny. Are you unaware of that?
So that's what's confusing. Is this supposed to be funny? It sounds very Moynahan report.
How you doing this morning Dave ?? Ya ok? Good news , you can bring back the angry, outraged , resist , “not my president!” Persona now !! It’s like you got your muse back !! It’ll be so 2016! Can’t wait 😂
Finally, good that David and Destiny talked about some hypocritical progressives that often preach inclusivity don't actually follow what they preach. They behave condescendingly against other progressives who believe in the same policies but want to approach them differently (may be pragmatic or realistic that they don't like). I notice a portion of audiences are getting tired of these condescending progressives who are behaving like the angry right grifters and frequently criticize whoever they disagree with (their values or opinions). At the same time they are not giving the audiences the comprehensive view of all sides, or not having understanding on certain topics (naive), or not aware of their obsession on certain topics, or not offering solutions that make sense to the specific time period (unrealistic).
Who is like this? I haven't heard of them. I wanna check them out.
@@itsROMPERS... Vaush (DavidP responded to him once here).
Another well-known channel is TYT (main channel). It had changed towards more reactionary with their commentaries, and often negative towards with democrats. TYT and others notable ones are sometimes guilty of misinforming their audiences on certain topics that aren't familiar with or don't have the complete facts. That is stem by their obsession (e.g., Democracy Now ) on specific US policy that they dislike. Example - Brittany Page responded to TYT 's discussion on homeless's housing issue.
So because someone agrees with you, you can not criticize them?
Also your biggest gripe is people being condescending. Really? Sorry your feeling get hurt when someone talks to you, but that sounds like more of a you problem.
@@maruraba1478There is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and berating them.
@@maruraba1478There’s a lot irony in this comment btw
Destinys great grandfather owned a slave plantation in Cuba. I think that is very relevant to consider when listening to his worldview.
Where is your evidence for that?
How dare you accuse a black woman’s great grandfather of owning slaves.
@@AkivaMerkavah haha anarkiddy funny!
@@kye4216 his mom admitted it on stream. Just Google it lol. Then learn about slavery in Cuba and how it continued after it was abolished.
@@kye4216 you can literally Google it..
Dialogue is different then debates. You have to in a dialogue accept as a hypothetical who you are dialoging. It is in accepting the deconstructed hypothetical that all participants have the possibility of new discoveries that could fine tune both sides understanding of what the issues are.
say what you will but as a young person destiny’s “gamergate” era is was really appealing to me and deradicalized me from the right and introduced me to sam seder and david pakman
Destiny really looks Cuban now that you mention it...
His family had slaves. The guy has blue eyes
lol, there are plenty of white Cubans (according to wikipedia, 64% of Cubans are white). Most didn't own slaves.@@BonShula
@@antonimartinez9961 He has blue eyes. He is off the bourgeoisie
@@BonShula You just don't know what you're talking about.
@@antonimartinez9961 His family owns at least 5 sugar plantations
Destiny is a girl’s name
Love seeing David and Destiny together!
Always love seeing collaboration between Mr. Steven Kenneth "Destiny" Bonnell II. and Mr. David DPak the Pak Pakman.
This is great
The attitude of Destiny on the fracture of left not being being an issue, sure didn’t age well. 😢
My introduction to Destiny was through the subreddit so I came into this video expecting him to sound much more conservative and aggressive against progressive policy. His reddit fans definitely do not do him favors.
His subreddit tried to brigade and ratio one of my tweets showcasing hateful things Destiny has said and they lost lol
I have only recently given some of Destiny's content a try. Even coming directly from his channel, I was surprised how reasonable and sensible he sounded here. Idk, I guess he earned some more chances, but I'm not convinced this is a true representation. Maybe cuz this is about sharing audience he was trying to be more appealing? 🤷♂️
@@GP-qz6kk how he is here is the same as he is in the ben shapiro debate and his interview with Lex Fridman. I think he just behaves professionally in more structured settings like this, but when hes livestreaming hes unashamedly himself and has no filter/doesnt care to be professional
Destiny’s subreddit is actually more representative of his usual attitude than you think. He knows Pakman is a neolib so he’s on his ‘podcast/treating conservatives with kiddie gloves’ level of aggression here, but the moment he goes back to his own stream or catches a scent of ‘Medicare for All’ or ‘Let’s not genocide Palestinians’ Destiny will fly off his rocker and start screeching his usual routine where he cries about ‘DiPsHiT LefTiES’ 🤣
Is this a little Hasan/Vaush cope party? Look at all these claims with not a single fact backing them up. Tsk tsk.
Makes sense given your ideologue models. Don't worry, I'll back my claim up. Destiny's model: 1. "Don't memorize my takes, learn the process I took to arrive at them."
2. "Never ever read just the headline, 80% don't and the titles follow the TH-cam title click-🎣"
3. "Most people who claim they've 'studied up on a subject' that conversation has left you dubious about their knowledge have only watched a youtube video or heard about the subject on a podcast (And think they learned more than they actually did)."
Your turn. Each provide supporting facts.
this echo chamber would be dangerous if there was a combined triple digit IQ present
Isnt destiny leading the conversation on the internet about Israel Palestine? Seems pretty smart to me.
having facts on your side is useless against a debate opponent who has their own facts and lives in their own reality. My issue with the majority of pro-palestinian debaters is that they are also (most of the time) vehemently anti-Israel. Case in point is Sam Seder's podcast. They are so all-in on supporting Palestine that they couldn't even be bothered to acknowledge that Hamas has done a barbaric thing with their attack. A condemnation of Hamas doesn't have to mean you don't support the people of Gaza. I'm really worried the left won't be fully united when election time comes, because there's loads of possible anti-Trump voters who will throw out the baby with the bath-water because they think Biden is helping the great Satan, Israel.
Hard agree with everything you said. The majority report with Sam sedar, TYT, the rational national and the humanist report are all very biased pro palestinian/hamas and anti israel and aren't hiding it. They ignore the historical context and haven't once denounced what hamas did on October 7th. Even before israel responded in the days after the attacks, Emma viegland and tyt were playing the "israel is an oppressor card" and implying that hamas was justified. They're complete garbage far left progressives just as bad as far right MAGA but on the opposite side of the political spectrum. These same people were the ones making fun of the 5 men and kid who died in that sub over the summer simply because they were billionaires. Was it risky and dumb what they did? Yes but humanist report and Mike were making fun of their horrible deaths.
What are you talking about? From what I've seen, nearly every prominent speaker for the left has been asked to condemn Hamas' actions, and most have done so. Furthermore, if someone's pro-Palestine, of course, they'll be anti-Israel. What else could they be?
To be fair, I think pretty much every person regardless of party should be pissed at the Uvalde police.:)
You mean Governor Abbott
The tragedy of young voters is not their ideology but their failure to bother to vote at all. They fail their fundamental responsibilities as citizens.
Never appreciated the .75x playback speed function on TH-cam until today.
Except David sounds drunk at.75 and Destiny sounds normal.😂🤣
Destiny is a very smart guy as is Pakman. Having said that...the idea that debates on Palestine/Israel is going on with Wikipedia reading and a few source documents is some mix of hilarious and a dash of depressing.
He said in the case of Palestine/Israel that he’s been reading full books
Famous Debate: James Baldwin vs William Buckley … Very inspiring and informative
Hasn't Packman complained about Corporate Dems??? Why? Aren't they on the same side?? Isn't the "leftists" calling him out, the same as him calling out corporate Dems?? Guys, don't be so sensitive. If some people from the left, Kids as you call them, call you out for something....maybe come up with a good argument to back up your views. It is stronger than complaining about being criticized.
You can't argue against a group without an argument. "Establishment bad". Ok? Sometimes its bad, sometimes its good, how do you argue against that?
I'm glad for this to stick to you David Pakman, you get to have the acclaim to now have a white supremacist on your Podcast.
Very interest show David
i think destiny is beneath your caliber david, he shows he is willing to be less than progressive whenever anyone criticizes him. multiple gross lash outs of his are far and wide on the internet.
Destiny is a real one.
😂😂🤣🤣
I love when you guys collaborate! Big fan of you both!