Not usually commenting here, but just wanted to let you know I've been watching your channel since the beginning and the growth of it is insane. At the moment in my opinion you are putting out the best quality content out there. Keep it up Vesp, cheers.
Imma be real. I like Enhancement how it is. It’s one of if not the most unique spec in the game. It’s really easy once you have the priority and flow down. I have either mained or played it as an alt in every expansion since MoP though. I don’t want a spec that largely plays itself. If they can figure out a way to make it a little less complex through optional talents, then it would be the ideal scenario (like what they are doing with Feral Spirits in 11.0.5). If I wanted Enhancement without the complexity/difficulty I’d play Fury.
@@BlastHeart96 Yeah but if you want the benefit of this seasons 4 set bonus you can't take that automatic feral spirit talent option. I agree that optional talents are a potentially good solution for making the spec less complex but the problem is whenever they try to do that it turns out that the talents that make the spec less complex actually lower your dps significantly.
@@Dangitbobby-KFP_Shaman Yeah that was mildly my point. Having optional talents that make the gameplay/complexity easier, but at the cost of throughput. Kinda like Elemental Blast being better than Tempest Strikes. I realize that I’m being “selfish”, but as someone that truly love Enhance as it is, I’d rather not see the spec butchered or made too simple. One of the reasons I enjoy it, other than loving Battle Mages, is it’s been largely the same for many years and Dragonflight/TWW has had the best iteration of the spec by far. If they can fine a way for people that want to play the spec at a lower level, while also keeping talent options that require more involvement intact, then I’ll be happy.
Thank you for the video. Tried playing storm enhance build for the first time today and was totally overwhelmed (managed to do less dmg than the tank). Of course a lot of skill issue, but still nice to hear that it’s at least also a very complex spec!
Took me months to get use to storm enhancement am absolutely loving it now am topping dps when 30ilv below my teammates, stick to it u will get the hang of it. A good way to learn is to install somthing like hekili or max dps both help teach u ur rotation while playing
Ret to me has always had an easy rotation because you're supposed to help weave in support spells. The class fantasy is successful in that I can keep an eye on the group and throw bops, freedoms, sacs, LoH, cleanse and of course, instant or quick heals. So in terms of strict dps rotation sure, easy but in terms of bringing out the full potential of support, its got way more depth to it. Its why my other favorite spec is Disc priest.
Yeah but including all that ret still has way less buttons to push than an average spec. It's not hard to glance over at raid frames a split second and check debuffs to cleanse someone, or freedom etc. If you struggle with that i don't think you're above 50io
Yeah its really bad. Game isn't designed around BOPing and freedoming people, so whats left is a boring 3head spec that is even easier than BM since at least they need to manage frenzy and beast cleave. And BM can at least kite and shut down mobs at range. Ret is just.. 1, 2, 3, divine storm lul zero braincells stuck in melee doing B tier dps 😂
@@putnik1995 I agree with you regarding the damage of MY Warrior but I still 100% support what @Esceti95 said as someone who was a Fury Warrior main for over 13 years.
@@mwelsh03 True but still - why wouldn´t you rather invite retri instead? He also pumps + can provide so much utility on top of that including combat ress. I also main warrior so I know the struggle, but when I play my alts, I don´t invite warriors to my groups because.. why would I? Most classes can pump the same damage and offer so much on top of that which can make the key so much easier.
For me personally, the hardest melee spec to play is Outlaw Rogue. The rotation might seem simple on paper, but executing it requires incredibly fast reactions, a perfect UI, and the ability to manage cooldowns down to the second, not just for pulls.
After seeing that Demon Hunter (DH) is easier than Outlaw Rogue, I became biased. In the end, it comes down to personal preference, and any playstyle can click, BUT: While DH performs well by pressing just four buttons and even making mistakes, Outlaw Rogue is incredibly demanding in terms of cooldown management, overall playstyle, buff tracking, and mechanical skill. The skill ceiling and skill floor are both significantly higher if you want to play Outlaw Rogue correctly. I base my assessment on both my personal experience playing both classes and feedback from my guild. When I need to carry a group, I always choose DH due to its much simpler playstyle and high-damage potential. One last point: controlling DH during Blade Dance isn't difficult. Once you've played it for a while, you'll notice that while the model appears to "dance," the damage anchor remains fixed at the position where the Blade Dance started.
DH is easy. I play DH I love it, but it's super easy you are correct you have 4 buttons you spam 3 you keep an eye on, a few nukes and a lot of mobility.
It might have made more sense to do the list in reverse since the “lower” they are in a tier and the lower they are on the list, the harder they are which is a little confusing visually, at least for me. Otherwise great video! Nice to hear someone break this stuff down without going into a lot of extra unnecessary detail.
I think people don't understand that "harder" doesn't necessarily mean "better." You may be easier to play as a Frost Death Knight (FDK) while being much more durable than an Enhancement Shaman. This means you'll survive situations where they won't, and you'll keep playing while they're dead. Being dead isn't fun, after all.
I love the shaman lore, but all the buttons all the needed planning and thought in ways that aren't straight forward through reading the talents. I'm leaning towards Frost DK instead. There is just way to much going on. The enhancement Shaman UI needs an overhaul.
tbh i find enhancement to be hella tanky, just it's a matter of using healing surge over damage if possible to instant top yourself off, then throw in stone bulwark totem and healing stream and you can keep yourself alive pretty handily though fdk is definitely more durable but there's definitely ways to be more resilient with enhance ^^;
enchancement sham explanation doesn't even account the fact that you have to do ALL OF THAT, plus react to tons of procs that change your decision making the split second before you act, while looking for dispell, aoe stun anticipation, cut, dodge aoe, and why not hex someone is panic if needed
@iIyboo no way, pistol shot procs, between the eyes, vanish to make use of everything else etc etc. Do that on Outlaw with blade flurry and the rest without dying.......definitely not in my dreams Enhancement is pizz easy. Primordial wave > lightning crash > Lava lash > Wolves > Fire nova > Lightning bolt > build up maelstrom again to pop a chain lightning into Ascendence...smash Wind strike...and the odd tempest at 10 stacks of Maelstrom. You can top metres by pushing that rotation every time. Try that on Rogue
I've mained and enjoyed Enhancement for the last 2 expansions and TWW has me tapping out. I like more complex rotations but I need a breather man. Rotation got hands Back to Windwalker this time I reckon
The Enhancement Storm Build is very easy IMHO and the Elemental build is indeed pretty hard to play optimally. I find WW Monk to be pretty hard, not because of the mastery, just the amount of buttons. Furry Warr would be my main no question, but I hate the warrior mobility. The leap is a long CD and the other movement abilities require a target, so it can be hard to dodge certain mechanics.
Why elemental is hard to play optimally? Aoe is cl eq with magma totem and pw flame burst, st same but change cl to lightning strike and eq to earth shock use flame burst only when it procs
Outlaw is - imho - a very difficult spec because it has button-mashing combined with button bloat and a bunch of different ideas slammed together. You need to keep track of: Your energy, your combo points, your Slice and Dice-uptime, your Roll the Bones-buffs (that you might need to reroll), your Roll the Bones-uptime, your countless dps cooldowns (including actual combo finishers with cooldowns - whoever thought that was a good idea sucks at designing classes, imho), your Between-The-Eyes-window - and, of course, your countless proccs (that you sometimes need to use immediately but sometimes need to save to not over-spend on energy and/or over-cap on combo points). Imho, none of that comes together to form a cohesive, fun playstyle - let alone an intuitive one.
@@Mahkran It's significantly more than 2 bars if you count all of the DPS cooldowns - and yes, I would consider a damage rotation that contains 20 buttons as bloat-y. 20 buttons is too many, especially if there is a ton of additional complexity in the spec, such a high level of complexity shouldn't be normalized. Don't get me wrong: I'm not pining for going back to spamming frost bolts, but sometimes too much is simply too much.
i have 400ish days played on my rog and 200ish on my druid since 2005 and i can comfortably say that feral rotation feels like playing chess against anatoly karpov meanwhile playing assas or sub feels like playing lego with your 3 years of old child.
Fun video. I’ve played feral druid since BC, and while it’s complex now, it used to be even worse. We had something like five DOTs to maintain back then, along with everything else going on.
I rerolled a rogue and i immediately had a gigachad DPS in assassination. While on my main warrior i had to put a lot more work to understand how it works and the subtle buffs each button press gives to other button presses. Plus once everything start to blink and come back from CD, the priority list become a nightmare. While rogue you just spread the bleedings and apply poisons, once you know everybody bleed and have poisons you shiv and tea. If you miss something in the priority, other things won't fall off the cliff as it does with warrior.
Dude I totally agree with your take on outlaw. The hardest part is keeping track of the dice which a addon can help handle. It's a meathead button mash spec compared to the other rogue specs. As a ret, frost dk, warrior player, I thought it might be too hard for me then I gave it a try and realized its totally just a button masher spec. It's just a more intelligent fury warrior, which isn't saying much.
As a 10+ years rogue main at mythic level and usually above 90% percentile, i will disagree. I can play sub, i can play assa. I can perform on both. In fact i think sub complexity is stupidly overrated once you learn basic muscle memory for danse macabre there really isnt much going for this spec. Its just generate spend, generate spend, apply slice about once every minute, and apply rupture twice a minute. Thats it. Aoe rotation is embarassing in how easy it is, you spam 2 buttons untill your dance is back, and then you perform exactly the same rotation as in single target, except that you switch single gen/spender for aoe one. On the other hand, whenever i touched outlaw, and i did try to main it twice, and i did try to learn it every season, i only embarassed myself. I can barely outdps a decent tank. BARELY. Before sub got black powder, i played assa in m+, one of the most off meta specs, and still performed better than i did on outlaw at its highest peak of power, which is bfa where people would run 3 outlaws at mdi cuz it was just that broken. I also multiclass, and i will say, that from the melee dps pool, outlaw is by far the hardest thing i touched. Or perhaps my rogue has hidden -60% dmg debuff on outlaw that i dont know about, or im just born with biggest antisynergy for outlaw. Idk.
Only things I would change is putting Frost up to easier and drop Windwalker down into Easier as well. Frost is easy for sure, but its not as easy as Ret or Fury just because it has two resources to manage while they each only have one, so its gotta come up a notch. Windwalker is about the same difficulty as Frost IMO, maybe a smidge harder, so it goes down one. Fun list overall! Gonna watch the ranged one now.
I struggled with frost. Maybe it's cuz I'm getting older. I'm too tired after work or something. But managing runic power and the ruins and making sure that I have the correct amount of runic power and runes in my pillar of frost obliteration window and making sure that I time it properly is difficult for me. Because if you mess up for example retribution Paladin. Your damage isn't going to be good but it's not going to be absolute dumpster either. You're still going to be doing. Not a good amount of damage but damage that is of use. You mess up with frost and you're just swinging those obliterations wasting runes and then your pillar of strength Frost whatever it's called and you don't have the runic power to feed the killing machine procs and you don't have the runes to use your DPS is going to tank hard. Maybe I just need to play it more to get used to it or something I don't know. I gave it about a week I just couldn't get a hang of it
As a havoc main ever since they came out in legion I have to say that DH has been considered the easiest class, ever since and I have to agree that in the beginning they were super safe with all the leech and defensives they had. And the rotation was super basic with crazy mobility u can use whenever needed to execute mechanics. In recent years tho blizzard have been pushing for the inertia builds a lot and now that you are kinda forced to use ur mobility spells for dps not just mechanics it actually makes the class a lot harder. And I love that it makes it harder in probably one of the most unique way for a melee class. U gotta make sure u can use your mobility without pulling or dying to mechanics. It honestly has been a super fresh feeling and the bursty window playstyle is also very fun. All in all Id say u rated it pretty much perfectly. Its not really a hard spec but it has the most unique way of introducing difficulty which means its harder for everyone else who doesnt play DH.
Just stumbled onto your channel in the last few weeks - digging the content mate! Only thing I’d say about Frost DK is that maximizing the Pillar of Frost windows can be slightly complex; it’s not extremely difficult but I think the perception is that the spec is extremely easy. It’s not “hard” per se, but maximizing the output adds a bit of challenge.
That used to be true, I don’t think it is now because it’s just a flat strength increase now. Maybe I’m missing something. I play blood and unholy and mostly skip frost.
@@kalasmournrex1470 yea I’m just saying for Obliteration the weaving of frost strike / howling blast (depending on procs) and ensuring you manage resources going into pillar windows adds a little bit of complexity, especially if you want to maximize performance. Certainly not rocket science though.
@@Kensber85 I like how it is now tbh. It just feels bad when you do whole opener with your 18 button sequence and warlock casting 1 chaos bolt does same damage.
@@bloodvelvet338I just want bd dodge back and the dash tree route gone and hunt replaced with Sinful Brand since Cycle of hatred fixed sinfuls issues in SL
DH is not hard at all. I play the most of the classes shown above and DH is one of the easiest. Monk WW is way harder, but the hardest I experienced are the rogue specs. But DH is pretty easy. The movement makes it so much easier to just do high dps while avoiding everything..
I've been playing Havoc off and on since Legion and picked it up as my main a month before TWW. Now that we're in the expansion I still feel like a bumbling idiot with the rotation sometimes. Gotta sit up in my chair to keep up with my Retpally friend.
Enhance doesn't have to watch the flame shock timer as long as you're using lava lash in your rotation, because lava lash will reset flame shock at 100% of its duration.
That's mostly true.. but you still have to watch which mob to tab target to next to refresh flame shock. Lava lash only refreshes the timer on your current target, not all mobs with flame shock active.
I played enhancement shaman from 2009 - 2012. I've now come back to wow an adult, with a couple degrees under my belt. I've been researching for 1 week and still can't understand why this spec is exactly so hard to use.
@@TRU3OGR3 That's true, and Fire Nova at one point would cost a massive chunk of an Enhance Shaman's mana pool. So much that I didn't use it, because an Enhance that was OOM was worthless.
Bro, frost is harder to align proper layout than UH. UH is just pop cds, keep dots. Frost proc management is harder and more movement related. If you are not experienced with the spec you end up lower than UH even it's in better condition in TWW.
@@JohnDyr_Lawnmower For cleave fights, the m+ build found on many support sites is enough to provide above-average performance and is not a difficult rotation. It is possible to get good cleave damage by spamming a simple rotation with Epidemic, Vile contagion and bursting sores. Especially in big pulls with swollen hp bars and long durations. I think that being proc and rng based in Frost puts more stress on it. If we put aside the UH and Frost comparison and compare it with other melee classes, yes, life is much easier for a retpala than UH. Or a furywarr.
@eddorian985 I'm not sure... there are many minigames to play also in the m+ build. The difference is whether one is aware of them or not (the video author is not aware of all). UH being reasonable when disregarding those minigames is true, but when you do them, you see a noticeable dps increase. There is absolutely no way to parse 95 without them for example.
You’re missing the wolves elements on enhancement not that it changes the rotation drastically but depending on their element certain skills will do more damage.
I agree with you on outlaw, community definitely over exaggerate its difficulty. Once I got a weakaura for crackshot and roll the bones, the spec is honestly on the easier side.
I am one of this crazy people that plays only one character only one spec. I have been playing enhancement shaman since 2008 and I have over 1000 days played on it but I have to admit I feel more and more exhausted by the fact that we have more things to track every expansion. If it turns out that the best TWW spec will be elementalist+totemic enha shaman I don't know what I am going to do because elementalis already has waaay too many things to track. I just can't imagine myself tracking stacionary totem on top of that as well...
getting into enhancer has been so fucking hard. happy to get confirmation haha. even with a special UI im constantly fucking stuff up. its super complicated but also very engaging because theres always something to improve but fucking up once isnt super punishing
thats why you should level your character, its a very gradual and very hands on tutorial of teaching you how to play a spec or a class in general. but for veterans with years of xp (some even have decades of) things just click after 3 mins on dummies.
I'd check out Ret, its the only spec in the game you can reliably and literally hit what lights up and you're playing as intended. Zero things to track, just press the button and shiny thing happens on screen
One other thing on enhancement too similar to BM hunter and its bleeds is you need to know how many stacks of windfury you have because if you are spending them too early you are wasting a ton of dps you want to spend at about 8-10 pref 10 and as i said earlier spend it with the element of your wolves (so if they are both lighting use lighting, if ones fire or frost use elemental blast or lava burst …etc)
As a new player I would have to say Farrell is actually easier to play than a lot of the other melees out there took me a second to realize how to use my death knight and my demon Hunter and I haven't even touched a shaman yet i did actually start with a demo lock in casting and love it. But i also learn to arrange my talents to make it easy to rotate
What a swing, I like both the hardest ond third of the easiest melee specs in the game. Arctic Assault is preety much one of the best thing Frost DK get in a long time. I don't know if im doing it wrong or not (I assume I did) as Enchancment Shaman I press only electric buttons plus spirit pups, healing/barier totem and bloodlust while lissening to AC/DC Thunderstruck.
I love playing enhancement shaman, is my main for many years, but I'm getting to a point where the class is getting tiring to play. Retribution paladin is just as fun and is much simpler, it's a much more pleasant experience.
As a Shaman main i usualy go ele when leveling but DF/TWW made me go enh. Enh is in a great place IMHO. Very bloated still but it feels great and the number potential is crazy. I think it needs streamlining but its the best its been for a long time.
I’ve played ret exclusively with pride since BC, mainly for the fantasy and identity I was looking for. This will be the first time I mythic raid as another spec, and that is enh shaman. I have seen ret get pruned every expansion and to see it get even easier, it’s just so disappointingly simple. I wish they had doubled down on empowered seals from wod. That was the last time ret was truly fun and forward thinking.
Huh? I play ret since tbc as well and ret has ALWAYS been faceroll easy. It's gotten harder with the new talents, but it's still one of the easiest to play, especially when you compare it to other easy specs. It's only gotten harder when the DF talents hit, but not by much. At least in pve, ret has never had much skill expression, it's hard to stand out, if you're looking to stand out anyways.
Look at pros. They not simply replace whirlwind with thunderclap. They use both, because ww has no cooldown and has longer range than other mele attacks
People getting really upset over someone’s opinion. He states his points and while I disagree with a few of them getting your panties in a knot is hilarious
I feel like you're completely ignoring the intricacies of roll the bones, especially with KiR, and how reactive the spec is. You never know what your next GCD is going to be used on depending on procs, and of course the GCD is incredibly low thanks to hasted Adrenaline Rush. This combined with how punishing it is to mess up between the eyes and... yeah. Meanwhile enhancement I'm pressing random glowy buttons and doing comparable dps despite being 10 iLevels below. That being said though, your analysis is clearly geared towards mythic+ and aoe scenarios, so mileage may vary.
haven't played in years, but I used to play basically all the melee specs and breathe frost DK used to be really fucking hard compared to most, I'm kind of curious what it's like now based on this.
I think it’s funny to see how all content creators follow each other. This is the fifth “easiest dps specc tier list” video Ive seen that’s been released in the last 15h 😅😅 Not sure who is starting the trends each iteration though? Loving your videos man ❤️
lmao, its kinda just how WoW works with how season based it is. had this video planned for this date for months now, for sure weird with the timing tho!
@@VesperalTVI bet it is! Wasn’t meant as a negative comment btw but just something I noticed😅 Again love your videos and takes most of the times! Keep it up 🥰
I prefer chi wave as active button because it cost only cd .adding some skills dont need chi or enegry making rotation easier because sonetimes u got no energy or chi for 2-3 secs. at that point chi wave is kinda life saver because u have to keep use skills to save your damage which is pretty little damage bu still your mastery working.and at 0 chi u can go jab chiwave jab and fist of furry jab rising sun kick jab black out kick with this rotation my energy never end but on tww as I said sometimes have few secs energy isssue... probly enough haste could help on higher ilvl bu for now this is the problem for me
I really don't know why people think enhance is complicated it's really not. All the rogue specs are definitely harder except for outlaw, unless if you use no weakauras outlaw could be rough. All Enhance is, is applying and spreading Flame Shock, and then building maelstrom, and spending maelstrom on chain lightning in aoe, or ele blast in single target, and pressing Wolves on CD. It's really that simple. Just press any ability that lights up in between that and you will do good damage. There is a priority to use to min max but its not like a massive difference I promise. On pull, Wolves and Prim Wave while running to the pack, when you arrive press Crash Lightning, then Lava Lash to spread Flame Shock. Then Press Lightning Bolt to hit all targets that now have Flame Shock and get a fat haste buff. Then hit Ice Strike to buff frost Shock which now has 10 stacks, and then Frost Shock. Then, and I'm dead serious, just press your abilities that light up and spend maelstrom, that's it, and you will pop off. Don't think too hard. You do not need to Lava Lash tab target to spread Lashing Flames to do good damage, that's like an advanced tactic on targets that are gonna live a long time, but typical pulls under key level 10 is a waste of effort It does have an insane amount of buttons though I will give you that, the most rotational binds needed on top of having the most utility buttons. The most binds required of any class, but playing the actual rotation actually is not as complicated as people seem to think
So this "Just press any ability that lights up in between that and you will do good damage." statement is why you "Think" it is easy. you do not press any button that lights up. you press one of them depending on 5 different buffs. I.e. How many Stacks of MS do you have. How many Stacks of lashing flame do you have, how many stacks of hailstorm do you have? What type of wolves do you have out and how many? etc yes it would be easy just to press everything that lights up. that's the brain dead way to play but that's difference between doing crap dps and being top dps. Enh has the highest dps variance out of any spec. Meaning if they hit the wrong button in their rotation they lose the most dps.
Sub is harder than Assassin. Assassin is pretty chill. Indiscriminate Carnage makes things much easier along with Subterfuge. It's pretty easy to Deathmark your primary target with a single ambush then going into garrotes and ruptures
Fury feels like it was made to be a lot more complex. You got lost of short duration buffs that increase other abilities damage, gotta play around the enrage window... But then you realize you just gotta push your rotation. Trying to take advantage of stacking buffs instead of just mindlessly rotating? Thats a damage down. The only thing that impacts your overall damage is how well you line up your cooldowns with boss mechanics. In most cases mechanics that rely on other people doing them correctly. You have almost zero utility (10% command shout is a joke) and defensively might aswell wear cloth. Also someone at blizz must really hate heroic leap. Its still fun to play cause damage go BRRRRRT but it is dumb. Props for giving us the option to play at Legion speed but that only really works with a Legion Rotation.
You must have never played current sub rogue it’s prolly the easiest rogue spec to play.. I would say it’s mid difficult. Even easier prolly with arms warrior. You should be using burst CD macro . You don’t even need to rupture more than one target on AOE since it now spreads. Higher damage the group does less benefit you get from using multiple ruptures trying to dot more than 3 enemies. Sub is prolly became more simple since the change and addition to black powder than it’s ever been.
@@emjaythegreat22 Danse Macabre absolutely adds a level of complexity to minmax & allows you to top meters once understood. sub rogue without DM is gimped & easy.
U put outlaw in middle？ do a +10 key and try to watch your buff + dodge everything on the ground + playing piano and watch your details smashed by DK or fury or pally， its both mental and physical torture and you call that easy～ ：D
I will say, when you say enhancement has to both maintain flame shock, spread your flame shock, and use your lava lash, it’s really all just one button
Enhancement storm Shaman is one of the easiest to play in the War Within, followed by Windwalker Monk and Survival Hunter. Top 3 easiest by far that I've played.
I actually find enhancement shaman (which i main since a long time) just amazing and it's going to be even more in TWW. But already in the prepatch the rotation is just so smooth to me. I just can't play somethong else, i tried but damn enhance just rocks.
Just got back into wow a week ago, stopped way back in cata. Then and now I run enhancement and it's chaos but fun chaos. All the other classes I've played (no where near all) are just boring compared. And not to mention the reactions when you're good... priceless
Even if I agree with the ranking, I would like to make some clarifications. Yes, the ret pal is clearly easy to play, to do big DPS. If we compare it to the Enh (I have both), it is clearly more straightforward for a similar or even higher efficiency. What is a shame is that while the Enh struggles with its rotation, it brings nothing more than pure DPS. Where a good Ret will differentiate itself because it brings a lot of support of all kinds, between Freedom, Sac, BoP, LoH, etc. Even Word of Glory well used replaces a healer. But no doubt, if we look at pure DPS, very simple and also satisfying to play :)
@@JoFreeman333 true but ret has more with sacrifice for tank busters and every kind off annoyance the game , ret has some way to deal with it. plus they can heal so end up being a dps/off tank/healer/debuffer in higher keys
Invigorating Shadows Trickster Sub, try it out, feel like it's one of the hardest specs blizz has come up with, not only does the rotation have very different iterations based on coup de grace, your shadow dance will look different almost every single time, all of this with invig shadows cdr you have to really think about when you need your damage and what pulls are being done
Thank you for the in depth video. I’m torn between Fury Warrior and Outlaw Rogue. I always loved Ninja/dual swords/dual katana style of gameplay in basically any mmo or rpg game I’ve played. For the life of me, can’t realize which is the stronger/faster hitter amongst these two (for PvE mainly)
I‘ve enjoyed havoc ever since it was released rn I just hate it. It is just overloaded. The opener is 19 button-presses long, you have to keep track of 6 different damage windows, any mistake or boss mechanic messes up your cds so they don’t line up anymore so anytime you mess up or the boss requires you to do something, you just sit there waiting and trying to find a way to get back on track. I’ve played almost any spec as a main at some point. Even arcane in its most frustrating states didn’t feel as punishing bc pressing a wrong button wouldn’t mess you up for as long and have you constantly do math while you try to fight a boss. Accidentally dropped an immo aura out of habit? Well fuck… do I delay eye beam? Then I also have to delay essence break. Then it won’t line up with hunt anymore and then hunt won’t line up with meta anymore. Ok, so 35sec into a 63 sec cd so I would have to delay by - oh shit boss mechanic. Wait how much fury do I have? I’m still pulling average 90% performance in normal and heroic raids but it just got so incredibly stressful and annoying to play… And on top of that they leaned even more into damage windows. Every 40 sec / 1:30 / 3:00 you deal insane damage and then you deal 0 damage. So on top you constantly consider whether you should wait for a certain moment or just send it. Especially pug m+ is absolut hell. Ok let’s send it. Oh, the tank is only gonna pull this pack… well, ok should somewhat work out - oh at 30% he added another pack… well… ok damage window almost ready again aaaaaaaand they’re dead. Well fuck. Same for raiding. Ok, big damage window coming, let’s go: „run out“ ok cool, that’s like 100 k dps lost but sure, this is fine 😐
with the Havoc rework in DF the rotation got pretty complex, but i've been playing it since Legion and this finesse is exactly what this spec needed. it's the perfect example of easy to pick up, but very hard to master.
the spammy nature of Fury keeps me from playing it. I have arthritis. And Fury ends my gaming night early lmao. But Arms. Oof I love this spec. Its not as slow as it use to be, and can be alittle spammy, but compared to Fury its at a walking pace, where Fury is and all out sprint. I also enjoy the survivability of Arms to be superior. I just wish the damage of Mortal wounds would be buffed a bit.
Personally, I would put outlaw even higher in the easy to play.... Outside of a couple cooldowns, I have four buttons I press in my normal rotation of button mashing lol
If you aren’t instantly reacting to procs you aren’t playing outlaw to its full potential. With high haste and lust up you have to be very quick to react to what’s happening. If you’re over stacking combo points or using the wrong finisher because you didn’t expect a proc you’re losing dps. Very high skill ceiling
@@alexbrestowski4131 yeah I suppose that is fair to say... Outlaw just doesn't come off as complicated as other melee specs to me.... Like enhancement for example. I've tried it so many different times and there's just way too many goddamn buttons to be keeping track of lol
Man, I'm a Frost main, and let me tell you, it is the easier spec vs Fury and Ret. You know how many buttons we need? No no, take a guess. 3. You can take everything away except Howling Blast, Frost Strike and Obliterate and we still perform as usual. Add Remorseless and a Pillar Macro and we're done. Everything else is just extra sparkles.
Well, breath at least has some resource + positioning management to do, and gets punished for fucking it up, fury is just like that with 3 buttons + cd macro, except no punishment. I agree obliteration build is braindead though.
I disagree mostly at the cleave or AOE situations because of the timings and people moving adds out from your pool. Pala and fury warrior I joked at my mates because it's so faceroll you don't even need to pay attention.
@@nireas570 DnD is your key skill. If the tank pulls mobs away from your DnD, your damage will be significantly lower by a tier. That's just how it is. Another thing, you need to have as many obliterates in your DnD window as possible, because otherwise, the difference in damage is extreme.
In what world is havoc harder than ww, outlaw, survival, unh. The only technicality to the spec is glimpse. Also rogue and unh dk at the highest level are pretty close in skill. Enh isn’t even close id say rogue > feral/unhdk > everything else
I agree with most of these, except windwalker. Their opener is too many buttons, maybe with macros it can become easier. I'd rank um hard about the 5th hardest.
Snapshotting on feral is super simple in this version and not even difficult. In mop you could snapshot almost everything, that was far more difficult.
Just a side comment for Havic: Inertia is really difficult to min max but Momentum doesn’t require any thought since it stacks up to 30 seconds now. Momentum is great for new players that want to get used to the movement but don’t want to worry about the short Inertia window.
Playing a Ret Paladin, doing damage is not the only requirement. Whenever there is a death, the paladin should have used a hand. Whenever there is a healer in distress, the paladin should be off healing, removing toxins, protecting the tank or healer etc. I have a 22 keys gamepad and before the War Within, I still had not enough keys to bind all the abilities that I needed to effectively play a Ret paladin in myth+ content. And the worst: Whenever something goes wrong, it's the fault of the ret paladin because, as said, he didn't use his hands or heals to save the day. VERY annoying. Compared to death knights and demon hunters an any other class that has no ability to help the other players, the ret paladin is probably the hardest. If you don't care to help any other player, the paladin is easy, but also quite useless 🙂
Enhance is basically old arcane mage level of complex/difficulty if you run the insanely bloated elementalist build. Storm build though is much more approachable.
@@dylanwarner6035 Stormbringer hero talents are meta, but the dragon flight storm build is not - at least not in keys. Meta currently is elementalist build, with 1 point in Pwave and then you grab thorum’s invocation on the right side of the tree. Past couple nerfs killed the traditional storm build and it seems like they’re having a hard time making it better without simultaneously improving elementalist, but as it stands it’s even more convoluted than it was in dragon flight
@@fishunit1088that’s not really an elementalist build though, it’s a new pseudoelementalist build, and it’s easier than elementalist because you don’t need to tab out flame shock debuffs (just lightning rod, heh). Honestly flame shock does very little damage itself except on massive pulls, it’s really there for that pwave lightning.
@@kalasmournrex1470 I’m sorry this is just objectively false. Flameshock is one of your highest damage dealing abilities when you spread lashing flames debuff on all targets affected by flameshock. For context lava lash is a higher priority ability in the AOE rotation than ice strike and frost shock because of the debuff and how potent it is. I’m also not sure what you mean by it only doing damage on massive pulls? The larger the pull the less influence the damage has as you’re target capped at 6 flameshocks total. The difficulty of the spec is that the play pattern is exactly the same as dragonflight, except now you have to manage lightning rods as well as lashing flames so your changing targets even more. You now also have chain lightning, tempest and awakening storms to manage, altering further an already convoluted priority list
Enhancement needs to be in its own tier. Most difficult unenjoyable class I’ve ever played. Also very weird for someone to say demon hunter is hard. It’s the most brain dead class in the game
I think I'd put Outlaw on either Harder or Hardest - the APM and reaction times needed can be tricky to get used to, and the damn AR uptime can be cursed depending on the fight/dungeon.
I'm playing Fury Warrior this expansion because I can play it with one hand so I can use the other hand to grab crayons to eat.
it's beautiful!
0:32 Havoc DH
2:54 Enhancement Shaman
5:39 Feral Druid
8:31 Arms Warrior
11:01 Fury Warrior
12:17 Ass rogue
14:20 Sub rogue
16:34 Outlaw rogue
18:05 Survival Hunter
20:43 Unholy DK
23:23 Frost DK
25:27 WW Monk
28:19 Ret Paladin
are timestamps not working?
@@VesperalTV Nop
@@VesperalTV Ahh, they didn't show up for me but now they are. Thanks bro!
@@VesperalTVthink they're just fishing for likes 😂
@joea9222 Uhh, I could care less about some imaginary internet points. I was bored and had the time lol.
Not usually commenting here, but just wanted to let you know I've been watching your channel since the beginning and the growth of it is insane. At the moment in my opinion you are putting out the best quality content out there. Keep it up Vesp, cheers.
That means so much man, thanks for sticking around!
As someone who has mained enhance since Cata and has been very frustrated with the over complicated mess that it's become... This video is gratifying.
Imma be real. I like Enhancement how it is. It’s one of if not the most unique spec in the game. It’s really easy once you have the priority and flow down. I have either mained or played it as an alt in every expansion since MoP though. I don’t want a spec that largely plays itself.
If they can figure out a way to make it a little less complex through optional talents, then it would be the ideal scenario (like what they are doing with Feral Spirits in 11.0.5).
If I wanted Enhancement without the complexity/difficulty I’d play Fury.
@@BlastHeart96 Yeah but if you want the benefit of this seasons 4 set bonus you can't take that automatic feral spirit talent option. I agree that optional talents are a potentially good solution for making the spec less complex but the problem is whenever they try to do that it turns out that the talents that make the spec less complex actually lower your dps significantly.
@@Dangitbobby-KFP_Shaman Yeah that was mildly my point. Having optional talents that make the gameplay/complexity easier, but at the cost of throughput. Kinda like Elemental Blast being better than Tempest Strikes. I realize that I’m being “selfish”, but as someone that truly love Enhance as it is, I’d rather not see the spec butchered or made too simple.
One of the reasons I enjoy it, other than loving Battle Mages, is it’s been largely the same for many years and Dragonflight/TWW has had the best iteration of the spec by far.
If they can fine a way for people that want to play the spec at a lower level, while also keeping talent options that require more involvement intact, then I’ll be happy.
Thank you for the video. Tried playing storm enhance build for the first time today and was totally overwhelmed (managed to do less dmg than the tank). Of course a lot of skill issue, but still nice to hear that it’s at least also a very complex spec!
Took me months to get use to storm enhancement am absolutely loving it now am topping dps when 30ilv below my teammates, stick to it u will get the hang of it. A good way to learn is to install somthing like hekili or max dps both help teach u ur rotation while playing
That's pretty normal starting off on enhance.
Ret to me has always had an easy rotation because you're supposed to help weave in support spells. The class fantasy is successful in that I can keep an eye on the group and throw bops, freedoms, sacs, LoH, cleanse and of course, instant or quick heals.
So in terms of strict dps rotation sure, easy but in terms of bringing out the full potential of support, its got way more depth to it. Its why my other favorite spec is Disc priest.
Yeah but including all that ret still has way less buttons to push than an average spec. It's not hard to glance over at raid frames a split second and check debuffs to cleanse someone, or freedom etc. If you struggle with that i don't think you're above 50io
Yeah its really bad. Game isn't designed around BOPing and freedoming people, so whats left is a boring 3head spec that is even easier than BM since at least they need to manage frenzy and beast cleave. And BM can at least kite and shut down mobs at range. Ret is just.. 1, 2, 3, divine storm lul zero braincells stuck in melee doing B tier dps 😂
Warrior is the hardest spec in the game hands down..
To get into groups
not really warrior has crazy dmg
Lmao gottem
@@putnik1995 I agree with you regarding the damage of MY Warrior but I still 100% support what @Esceti95 said as someone who was a Fury Warrior main for over 13 years.
Should be much easier now with the affix changes. Plus, warriors pump so it’ll be beneficial to bring one.
@@mwelsh03 True but still - why wouldn´t you rather invite retri instead? He also pumps + can provide so much utility on top of that including combat ress. I also main warrior so I know the struggle, but when I play my alts, I don´t invite warriors to my groups because.. why would I? Most classes can pump the same damage and offer so much on top of that which can make the key so much easier.
For me personally, the hardest melee spec to play is Outlaw Rogue. The rotation might seem simple on paper, but executing it requires incredibly fast reactions, a perfect UI, and the ability to manage cooldowns down to the second, not just for pulls.
Same, it's just too much to think about and look out, while having fast APM and somewhat random combo point generation
The problem is even with all that it doesn't even perform.
Same experience for me. Playing this on a high level is really hard.
Agree and it's just not fun. I hate roll the bones.
@@Wellshem for me will be fire mage rogeu god cant hang of thos class fire mage just hard
After seeing that Demon Hunter (DH) is easier than Outlaw Rogue, I became biased. In the end, it comes down to personal preference, and any playstyle can click, BUT:
While DH performs well by pressing just four buttons and even making mistakes,
Outlaw Rogue is incredibly demanding in terms of cooldown management, overall playstyle, buff tracking, and mechanical skill.
The skill ceiling and skill floor are both significantly higher if you want to play Outlaw Rogue correctly.
I base my assessment on both my personal experience playing both classes and feedback from my guild.
When I need to carry a group, I always choose DH due to its much simpler playstyle and high-damage potential.
One last point: controlling DH during Blade Dance isn't difficult. Once you've played it for a while, you'll notice that while the model appears to "dance," the damage anchor remains fixed at the position where the Blade Dance started.
DH is easy. I play DH I love it, but it's super easy you are correct you have 4 buttons you spam 3 you keep an eye on, a few nukes and a lot of mobility.
@@leonkennedy9739 what highest key u timed and show us ur orange logs if its so easy
It might have made more sense to do the list in reverse since the “lower” they are in a tier and the lower they are on the list, the harder they are which is a little confusing visually, at least for me. Otherwise great video! Nice to hear someone break this stuff down without going into a lot of extra unnecessary detail.
I think people don't understand that "harder" doesn't necessarily mean "better." You may be easier to play as a Frost Death Knight (FDK) while being much more durable than an Enhancement Shaman. This means you'll survive situations where they won't, and you'll keep playing while they're dead. Being dead isn't fun, after all.
How dare you use common sense while drawing conclusions that's not allowed in America
Not sure where you got this from, I feel like most TH-camrs treat easy specs as better
I love the shaman lore, but all the buttons all the needed planning and thought in ways that aren't straight forward through reading the talents. I'm leaning towards Frost DK instead. There is just way to much going on. The enhancement Shaman UI needs an overhaul.
tbh i find enhancement to be hella tanky, just it's a matter of using healing surge over damage if possible to instant top yourself off, then throw in stone bulwark totem and healing stream and you can keep yourself alive pretty handily
though fdk is definitely more durable but there's definitely ways to be more resilient with enhance ^^;
I tried playing frost DK but I just suck at it so I had gone back to my ret 😂
GOOD WORK!!! expecting a ranged list soon!!!
Great video - thanks for sharing!
thanks dude!
enchancement sham explanation doesn't even account the fact that you have to do ALL OF THAT, plus react to tons of procs that change your decision making the split second before you act, while looking for dispell, aoe stun anticipation, cut, dodge aoe, and why not hex someone is panic if needed
Outlaw rogue is harder
@@hypoonettv2705 in ur dreams 🤣
@iIyboo no way, pistol shot procs, between the eyes, vanish to make use of everything else etc etc. Do that on Outlaw with blade flurry and the rest without dying.......definitely not in my dreams
Enhancement is pizz easy.
Primordial wave > lightning crash > Lava lash > Wolves > Fire nova > Lightning bolt > build up maelstrom again to pop a chain lightning into Ascendence...smash Wind strike...and the odd tempest at 10 stacks of Maelstrom.
You can top metres by pushing that rotation every time.
Try that on Rogue
@@hypoonettv2705 keep dreaming
@@iIyboo 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've mained and enjoyed Enhancement for the last 2 expansions and TWW has me tapping out. I like more complex rotations but I need a breather man. Rotation got hands
Back to Windwalker this time I reckon
I’m not sure how windwalker is easier than enhance tbh. Caveat: I was playing stormbringer in beta.
@kalasmournrex1470 I main enhance. When I play windwalker...my hands and brain is thanking me. 🤷🏽♂️
Agreed. Enhance has amazing visuals, but the rota is a headache
storm build enhancement is easy and fun and its stronger than elementalist atm with the stormbringer hero talents
@@hattorihanzo562elementalist is still stronger atm
The Enhancement Storm Build is very easy IMHO and the Elemental build is indeed pretty hard to play optimally. I find WW Monk to be pretty hard, not because of the mastery, just the amount of buttons. Furry Warr would be my main no question, but I hate the warrior mobility. The leap is a long CD and the other movement abilities require a target, so it can be hard to dodge certain mechanics.
Slayer makes it a bit better, but I agree.
Why elemental is hard to play optimally? Aoe is cl eq with magma totem and pw flame burst, st same but change cl to lightning strike and eq to earth shock use flame burst only when it procs
@@jookapaiva8205hes talking about the elemental enhancement build not ele shaman
Outlaw is - imho - a very difficult spec because it has button-mashing combined with button bloat and a bunch of different ideas slammed together. You need to keep track of: Your energy, your combo points, your Slice and Dice-uptime, your Roll the Bones-buffs (that you might need to reroll), your Roll the Bones-uptime, your countless dps cooldowns (including actual combo finishers with cooldowns - whoever thought that was a good idea sucks at designing classes, imho), your Between-The-Eyes-window - and, of course, your countless proccs (that you sometimes need to use immediately but sometimes need to save to not over-spend on energy and/or over-cap on combo points). Imho, none of that comes together to form a cohesive, fun playstyle - let alone an intuitive one.
There is like 2 bars of buttons and that is bloat?
@@Mahkran It's significantly more than 2 bars if you count all of the DPS cooldowns - and yes, I would consider a damage rotation that contains 20 buttons as bloat-y. 20 buttons is too many, especially if there is a ton of additional complexity in the spec, such a high level of complexity shouldn't be normalized. Don't get me wrong: I'm not pining for going back to spamming frost bolts, but sometimes too much is simply too much.
20 buttons is such a sad exaggeration. I found the spec extremely intuitive. Your complaints are invalid
Just have Flurry up
@@alexbrestowski4131 "stays at the bottom of the dps charts"
i have 400ish days played on my rog and 200ish on my druid since 2005 and i can comfortably say that feral rotation feels like playing chess against anatoly karpov meanwhile playing assas or sub feels like playing lego with your 3 years of old child.
Fun video. I’ve played feral druid since BC, and while it’s complex now, it used to be even worse. We had something like five DOTs to maintain back then, along with everything else going on.
Man, you are one of my favourite wow creators. Keep it up ❤
Great Video, thanks for that :)
I rerolled a rogue and i immediately had a gigachad DPS in assassination. While on my main warrior i had to put a lot more work to understand how it works and the subtle buffs each button press gives to other button presses. Plus once everything start to blink and come back from CD, the priority list become a nightmare.
While rogue you just spread the bleedings and apply poisons, once you know everybody bleed and have poisons you shiv and tea. If you miss something in the priority, other things won't fall off the cliff as it does with warrior.
Dude I totally agree with your take on outlaw. The hardest part is keeping track of the dice which a addon can help handle. It's a meathead button mash spec compared to the other rogue specs. As a ret, frost dk, warrior player, I thought it might be too hard for me then I gave it a try and realized its totally just a button masher spec. It's just a more intelligent fury warrior, which isn't saying much.
As a 10+ years rogue main at mythic level and usually above 90% percentile, i will disagree. I can play sub, i can play assa. I can perform on both. In fact i think sub complexity is stupidly overrated once you learn basic muscle memory for danse macabre there really isnt much going for this spec. Its just generate spend, generate spend, apply slice about once every minute, and apply rupture twice a minute. Thats it. Aoe rotation is embarassing in how easy it is, you spam 2 buttons untill your dance is back, and then you perform exactly the same rotation as in single target, except that you switch single gen/spender for aoe one.
On the other hand, whenever i touched outlaw, and i did try to main it twice, and i did try to learn it every season, i only embarassed myself. I can barely outdps a decent tank. BARELY. Before sub got black powder, i played assa in m+, one of the most off meta specs, and still performed better than i did on outlaw at its highest peak of power, which is bfa where people would run 3 outlaws at mdi cuz it was just that broken.
I also multiclass, and i will say, that from the melee dps pool, outlaw is by far the hardest thing i touched. Or perhaps my rogue has hidden -60% dmg debuff on outlaw that i dont know about, or im just born with biggest antisynergy for outlaw. Idk.
Only things I would change is putting Frost up to easier and drop Windwalker down into Easier as well. Frost is easy for sure, but its not as easy as Ret or Fury just because it has two resources to manage while they each only have one, so its gotta come up a notch. Windwalker is about the same difficulty as Frost IMO, maybe a smidge harder, so it goes down one.
Fun list overall! Gonna watch the ranged one now.
I struggled with frost. Maybe it's cuz I'm getting older. I'm too tired after work or something.
But managing runic power and the ruins and making sure that I have the correct amount of runic power and runes in my pillar of frost obliteration window and making sure that I time it properly is difficult for me.
Because if you mess up for example retribution Paladin. Your damage isn't going to be good but it's not going to be absolute dumpster either. You're still going to be doing. Not a good amount of damage but damage that is of use.
You mess up with frost and you're just swinging those obliterations wasting runes and then your pillar of strength Frost whatever it's called and you don't have the runic power to feed the killing machine procs and you don't have the runes to use your DPS is going to tank hard.
Maybe I just need to play it more to get used to it or something I don't know. I gave it about a week I just couldn't get a hang of it
@@TheWoWisok I know exactly how you feel, as I get older I'm naturally gravitating to the easier/simpler specs with lower APM.
As a havoc main ever since they came out in legion I have to say that DH has been considered the easiest class, ever since and I have to agree that in the beginning they were super safe with all the leech and defensives they had. And the rotation was super basic with crazy mobility u can use whenever needed to execute mechanics. In recent years tho blizzard have been pushing for the inertia builds a lot and now that you are kinda forced to use ur mobility spells for dps not just mechanics it actually makes the class a lot harder. And I love that it makes it harder in probably one of the most unique way for a melee class. U gotta make sure u can use your mobility without pulling or dying to mechanics. It honestly has been a super fresh feeling and the bursty window playstyle is also very fun. All in all Id say u rated it pretty much perfectly. Its not really a hard spec but it has the most unique way of introducing difficulty which means its harder for everyone else who doesnt play DH.
Just stumbled onto your channel in the last few weeks - digging the content mate!
Only thing I’d say about Frost DK is that maximizing the Pillar of Frost windows can be slightly complex; it’s not extremely difficult but I think the perception is that the spec is extremely easy. It’s not “hard” per se, but maximizing the output adds a bit of challenge.
That used to be true, I don’t think it is now because it’s just a flat strength increase now. Maybe I’m missing something. I play blood and unholy and mostly skip frost.
@@kalasmournrex1470 yea I’m just saying for Obliteration the weaving of frost strike / howling blast (depending on procs) and ensuring you manage resources going into pillar windows adds a little bit of complexity, especially if you want to maximize performance. Certainly not rocket science though.
So i fell in love with this ui, and i have 100% loved playing new specs with it
what ui is it
Definitely maining outlaw because the gunslinging pew pew swashbuckler spec has just got to be crazy
You're gonna hate it. I hate to say it but I had the same mindset as you and it was not what you think it is.
Lol prepare to get sad then.
Rog as overall is boring spec unless U good and pvper
As an enh sham, i love the difficulty of the class, and the nuances that go into getting dps, it can def be good if played well.
Excellent timing!
Finally someone that actually played DH and doesn't spread BS that it's a 2 button spec like back in a day.
The problem with DH now is the spec is like 9 buttons now
@@Kensber85 I like how it is now tbh. It just feels bad when you do whole opener with your 18 button sequence and warlock casting 1 chaos bolt does same damage.
Yeah and I se it comes from hunter pladin I'm like 😂 buffon
@@bloodvelvet338I just want bd dodge back and the dash tree route gone and hunt replaced with Sinful Brand since Cycle of hatred fixed sinfuls issues in SL
DH is not hard at all. I play the most of the classes shown above and DH is one of the easiest. Monk WW is way harder, but the hardest I experienced are the rogue specs. But DH is pretty easy. The movement makes it so much easier to just do high dps while avoiding everything..
I've been playing Havoc off and on since Legion and picked it up as my main a month before TWW. Now that we're in the expansion I still feel like a bumbling idiot with the rotation sometimes. Gotta sit up in my chair to keep up with my Retpally friend.
Enhance doesn't have to watch the flame shock timer as long as you're using lava lash in your rotation, because lava lash will reset flame shock at 100% of its duration.
That's mostly true.. but you still have to watch which mob to tab target to next to refresh flame shock. Lava lash only refreshes the timer on your current target, not all mobs with flame shock active.
@@crayonmonstr5458 Enhance has never been known for being strong as AOE dps, we've simply been given tools to do AOE damage.
@@MrRyanfisherFire nova at one point had no target cap and was definitely some of the strongest aoe possible
I played enhancement shaman from 2009 - 2012. I've now come back to wow an adult, with a couple degrees under my belt. I've been researching for 1 week and still can't understand why this spec is exactly so hard to use.
@@TRU3OGR3 That's true, and Fire Nova at one point would cost a massive chunk of an Enhance Shaman's mana pool. So much that I didn't use it, because an Enhance that was OOM was worthless.
What name plate addon are you using? Looks super clean!
Bro, frost is harder to align proper layout than UH. UH is just pop cds, keep dots. Frost proc management is harder and more movement related. If you are not experienced with the spec you end up lower than UH even it's in better condition in TWW.
Respectfully disagree, you can do OK easily on UH but to be great there's a large rabbit hole to dive into, especially in cleave fights
@@JohnDyr_Lawnmower For cleave fights, the m+ build found on many support sites is enough to provide above-average performance and is not a difficult rotation. It is possible to get good cleave damage by spamming a simple rotation with Epidemic, Vile contagion and bursting sores. Especially in big pulls with swollen hp bars and long durations. I think that being proc and rng based in Frost puts more stress on it. If we put aside the UH and Frost comparison and compare it with other melee classes, yes, life is much easier for a retpala than UH. Or a furywarr.
@eddorian985 I'm not sure... there are many minigames to play also in the m+ build. The difference is whether one is aware of them or not (the video author is not aware of all). UH being reasonable when disregarding those minigames is true, but when you do them, you see a noticeable dps increase. There is absolutely no way to parse 95 without them for example.
You’re missing the wolves elements on enhancement not that it changes the rotation drastically but depending on their element certain skills will do more damage.
I agree with you on outlaw, community definitely over exaggerate its difficulty. Once I got a weakaura for crackshot and roll the bones, the spec is honestly on the easier side.
I am one of this crazy people that plays only one character only one spec. I have been playing enhancement shaman since 2008 and I have over 1000 days played on it but I have to admit I feel more and more exhausted by the fact that we have more things to track every expansion. If it turns out that the best TWW spec will be elementalist+totemic enha shaman I don't know what I am going to do because elementalis already has waaay too many things to track. I just can't imagine myself tracking stacionary totem on top of that as well...
getting into enhancer has been so fucking hard. happy to get confirmation haha. even with a special UI im constantly fucking stuff up. its super complicated but also very engaging because theres always something to improve but fucking up once isnt super punishing
As a new player who hasn’t played a lot of mmos, how you manage all the skills and figuring out what skills go after what it super confusing 😭
thats why you should level your character, its a very gradual and very hands on tutorial of teaching you how to play a spec or a class in general. but for veterans with years of xp (some even have decades of) things just click after 3 mins on dummies.
I'd check out Ret, its the only spec in the game you can reliably and literally hit what lights up and you're playing as intended. Zero things to track, just press the button and shiny thing happens on screen
Thinking on maining a WW or Enhancement shamen this coming xpac. Just lvled them and had SO MUCH fun doing it. They just feel good.
One other thing on enhancement too similar to BM hunter and its bleeds is you need to know how many stacks of windfury you have because if you are spending them too early you are wasting a ton of dps you want to spend at about 8-10 pref 10 and as i said earlier spend it with the element of your wolves (so if they are both lighting use lighting, if ones fire or frost use elemental blast or lava burst …etc)
No way outlaw is easier than havoc lol
I’d put it top two difficulty wise
Nah DH is one of the easier ones but outlaw is also highly overrated in terms of complexity
As a new player I would have to say Farrell is actually easier to play than a lot of the other melees out there took me a second to realize how to use my death knight and my demon Hunter and I haven't even touched a shaman yet i did actually start with a demo lock in casting and love it. But i also learn to arrange my talents to make it easy to rotate
outlaw is easy
then proceed dpsing less than a healer. - Me
What a swing, I like both the hardest ond third of the easiest melee specs in the game. Arctic Assault is preety much one of the best thing Frost DK get in a long time. I don't know if im doing it wrong or not (I assume I did) as Enchancment Shaman I press only electric buttons plus spirit pups, healing/barier totem and bloodlust while lissening to AC/DC Thunderstruck.
I love playing enhancement shaman, is my main for many years, but I'm getting to a point where the class is getting tiring to play. Retribution paladin is just as fun and is much simpler, it's a much more pleasant experience.
As a Shaman main i usualy go ele when leveling but DF/TWW made me go enh. Enh is in a great place IMHO. Very bloated still but it feels great and the number potential is crazy. I think it needs streamlining but its the best its been for a long time.
I’ve played ret exclusively with pride since BC, mainly for the fantasy and identity I was looking for. This will be the first time I mythic raid as another spec, and that is enh shaman. I have seen ret get pruned every expansion and to see it get even easier, it’s just so disappointingly simple. I wish they had doubled down on empowered seals from wod. That was the last time ret was truly fun and forward thinking.
Huh? I play ret since tbc as well and ret has ALWAYS been faceroll easy. It's gotten harder with the new talents, but it's still one of the easiest to play, especially when you compare it to other easy specs. It's only gotten harder when the DF talents hit, but not by much. At least in pve, ret has never had much skill expression, it's hard to stand out, if you're looking to stand out anyways.
Look at pros. They not simply replace whirlwind with thunderclap. They use both, because ww has no cooldown and has longer range than other mele attacks
People getting really upset over someone’s opinion. He states his points and while I disagree with a few of them getting your panties in a knot is hilarious
Upset is a big word for disagreement..
His take on DH is just bad
I feel like you're completely ignoring the intricacies of roll the bones, especially with KiR, and how reactive the spec is. You never know what your next GCD is going to be used on depending on procs, and of course the GCD is incredibly low thanks to hasted Adrenaline Rush. This combined with how punishing it is to mess up between the eyes and... yeah.
Meanwhile enhancement I'm pressing random glowy buttons and doing comparable dps despite being 10 iLevels below.
That being said though, your analysis is clearly geared towards mythic+ and aoe scenarios, so mileage may vary.
haven't played in years, but I used to play basically all the melee specs and breathe frost DK used to be really fucking hard compared to most, I'm kind of curious what it's like now based on this.
there's a clear pattern of plates being easier than agility users, with the exception of uhdk
I think it’s funny to see how all content creators follow each other. This is the fifth “easiest dps specc tier list” video Ive seen that’s been released in the last 15h 😅😅
Not sure who is starting the trends each iteration though?
Loving your videos man ❤️
lmao, its kinda just how WoW works with how season based it is. had this video planned for this date for months now, for sure weird with the timing tho!
@@VesperalTVI bet it is! Wasn’t meant as a negative comment btw but just something I noticed😅
Again love your videos and takes most of the times! Keep it up 🥰
@@pergrundtman608 yeah no problem bro I know! Just thought I’d try and answer why
what is the song pls ? I know it's a "remix" but I can't put my finger on the name of the game it's from. Is that from OoT ?
I prefer chi wave as active button because it cost only cd .adding some skills dont need chi or enegry making rotation easier because sonetimes u got no energy or chi for 2-3 secs. at that point chi wave is kinda life saver because u have to keep use skills to save your damage which is pretty little damage bu still your mastery working.and at 0 chi u can go jab chiwave jab and fist of furry jab rising sun kick jab black out kick with this rotation my energy never end but on tww as I said sometimes have few secs energy isssue... probly enough haste could help on higher ilvl bu for now this is the problem for me
I really don't know why people think enhance is complicated it's really not. All the rogue specs are definitely harder except for outlaw, unless if you use no weakauras outlaw could be rough.
All Enhance is, is applying and spreading Flame Shock, and then building maelstrom, and spending maelstrom on chain lightning in aoe, or ele blast in single target, and pressing Wolves on CD. It's really that simple. Just press any ability that lights up in between that and you will do good damage. There is a priority to use to min max but its not like a massive difference I promise.
On pull, Wolves and Prim Wave while running to the pack, when you arrive press Crash Lightning, then Lava Lash to spread Flame Shock. Then Press Lightning Bolt to hit all targets that now have Flame Shock and get a fat haste buff. Then hit Ice Strike to buff frost Shock which now has 10 stacks, and then Frost Shock. Then, and I'm dead serious, just press your abilities that light up and spend maelstrom, that's it, and you will pop off. Don't think too hard. You do not need to Lava Lash tab target to spread Lashing Flames to do good damage, that's like an advanced tactic on targets that are gonna live a long time, but typical pulls under key level 10 is a waste of effort
It does have an insane amount of buttons though I will give you that, the most rotational binds needed on top of having the most utility buttons. The most binds required of any class, but playing the actual rotation actually is not as complicated as people seem to think
So this "Just press any ability that lights up in between that and you will do good damage." statement is why you "Think" it is easy. you do not press any button that lights up. you press one of them depending on 5 different buffs. I.e. How many Stacks of MS do you have. How many Stacks of lashing flame do you have, how many stacks of hailstorm do you have? What type of wolves do you have out and how many? etc yes it would be easy just to press everything that lights up. that's the brain dead way to play but that's difference between doing crap dps and being top dps. Enh has the highest dps variance out of any spec. Meaning if they hit the wrong button in their rotation they lose the most dps.
Sub is harder than Assassin. Assassin is pretty chill. Indiscriminate Carnage makes things much easier along with Subterfuge. It's pretty easy to Deathmark your primary target with a single ambush then going into garrotes and ruptures
Havoc is for sure in mid or easier other than that the list is pretty fair.
If you Just swapped dh and monk this tierlist would be perfect. And maybe assa a tier lower
The trick to the ret is you are a DOT spec.
Getting your dot on something before hitting aoe is key.
I watch pallys miss this all the time.
i relly find it fun how dif players view dif classes like assassin rogue to me is just dots and big numbers so i enjoy it alot
very fair maybe WW monk with feral druid difficulty
feral is way easier than ww monk when it comes to minmaxing the potential of the spec.
@@reuterss306 lol , no
Fury feels like it was made to be a lot more complex. You got lost of short duration buffs that increase other abilities damage, gotta play around the enrage window... But then you realize you just gotta push your rotation. Trying to take advantage of stacking buffs instead of just mindlessly rotating? Thats a damage down.
The only thing that impacts your overall damage is how well you line up your cooldowns with boss mechanics. In most cases mechanics that rely on other people doing them correctly.
You have almost zero utility (10% command shout is a joke) and defensively might aswell wear cloth. Also someone at blizz must really hate heroic leap.
Its still fun to play cause damage go BRRRRRT but it is dumb. Props for giving us the option to play at Legion speed but that only really works with a Legion Rotation.
You must have never played current sub rogue it’s prolly the easiest rogue spec to play.. I would say it’s mid difficult. Even easier prolly with arms warrior. You should be using burst CD macro . You don’t even need to rupture more than one target on AOE since it now spreads. Higher damage the group does less benefit you get from using multiple ruptures trying to dot more than 3 enemies. Sub is prolly became more simple since the change and addition to black powder than it’s ever been.
@@emjaythegreat22 Danse Macabre absolutely adds a level of complexity to minmax & allows you to top meters once understood. sub rogue without DM is gimped & easy.
U put outlaw in middle？ do a +10 key and try to watch your buff + dodge everything on the ground + playing piano and watch your details smashed by DK or fury or pally， its both mental and physical torture and you call that easy～ ：D
I will say, when you say enhancement has to both maintain flame shock, spread your flame shock, and use your lava lash, it’s really all just one button
have any video on melee rotations and talent builds ?
Enhancement storm Shaman is one of the easiest to play in the War Within, followed by Windwalker Monk and Survival Hunter. Top 3 easiest by far that I've played.
I actually find enhancement shaman (which i main since a long time) just amazing and it's going to be even more in TWW. But already in the prepatch the rotation is just so smooth to me. I just can't play somethong else, i tried but damn enhance just rocks.
Just got back into wow a week ago, stopped way back in cata. Then and now I run enhancement and it's chaos but fun chaos. All the other classes I've played (no where near all) are just boring compared. And not to mention the reactions when you're good... priceless
Seems to me quite a few classes need some button bloat pruning.
outlaw is objectively the hardest spec in the game.
Even if I agree with the ranking, I would like to make some clarifications.
Yes, the ret pal is clearly easy to play, to do big DPS. If we compare it to the Enh (I have both), it is clearly more straightforward for a similar or even higher efficiency.
What is a shame is that while the Enh struggles with its rotation, it brings nothing more than pure DPS.
Where a good Ret will differentiate itself because it brings a lot of support of all kinds, between Freedom, Sac, BoP, LoH, etc.
Even Word of Glory well used replaces a healer.
But no doubt, if we look at pure DPS, very simple and also satisfying to play :)
What? Enhancer is 5/5 for utility in m+, hahaha
@@JoFreeman333 true but ret has more with sacrifice for tank busters and every kind off annoyance the game , ret has some way to deal with it. plus they can heal so end up being a dps/off tank/healer/debuffer in higher keys
What are you talking about, the Skyfury buff alone is more useful than all of that very situational paladin utility combined.
Invigorating Shadows Trickster Sub, try it out, feel like it's one of the hardest specs blizz has come up with, not only does the rotation have very different iterations based on coup de grace, your shadow dance will look different almost every single time, all of this with invig shadows cdr you have to really think about when you need your damage and what pulls are being done
i was wondering why my enhance shaman wasn’t preforming as well as my other classes, good to know i’m not just stupid 😂
Thank you for the in depth video. I’m torn between Fury Warrior and Outlaw Rogue. I always loved Ninja/dual swords/dual katana style of gameplay in basically any mmo or rpg game I’ve played.
For the life of me, can’t realize which is the stronger/faster hitter amongst these two (for PvE mainly)
I‘ve enjoyed havoc ever since it was released rn I just hate it. It is just overloaded. The opener is 19 button-presses long, you have to keep track of 6 different damage windows, any mistake or boss mechanic messes up your cds so they don’t line up anymore so anytime you mess up or the boss requires you to do something, you just sit there waiting and trying to find a way to get back on track. I’ve played almost any spec as a main at some point. Even arcane in its most frustrating states didn’t feel as punishing bc pressing a wrong button wouldn’t mess you up for as long and have you constantly do math while you try to fight a boss.
Accidentally dropped an immo aura out of habit? Well fuck… do I delay eye beam? Then I also have to delay essence break. Then it won’t line up with hunt anymore and then hunt won’t line up with meta anymore. Ok, so 35sec into a 63 sec cd so I would have to delay by - oh shit boss mechanic. Wait how much fury do I have?
I’m still pulling average 90% performance in normal and heroic raids but it just got so incredibly stressful and annoying to play…
And on top of that they leaned even more into damage windows. Every 40 sec / 1:30 / 3:00 you deal insane damage and then you deal 0 damage. So on top you constantly consider whether you should wait for a certain moment or just send it.
Especially pug m+ is absolut hell. Ok let’s send it. Oh, the tank is only gonna pull this pack… well, ok should somewhat work out - oh at 30% he added another pack… well… ok damage window almost ready again aaaaaaaand they’re dead. Well fuck.
Same for raiding. Ok, big damage window coming, let’s go: „run out“ ok cool, that’s like 100 k dps lost but sure, this is fine 😐
Not a DPS is doing dps, a DD is doing dps.
with the Havoc rework in DF the rotation got pretty complex, but i've been playing it since Legion and this finesse is exactly what this spec needed. it's the perfect example of easy to pick up, but very hard to master.
Nah the havoc rotation now is trash. So much work for very little pay off
Yup I love blade dance and tempest essence break but its kinda a hassle cast essences gets cc nice alt f4
@@nonameimpotantlive9233 i love the DH animations but god the rotation sucks so bad. I want the blade dance build from shadowlands back
@@Kensber85but dh can't be good the Gooners wil cry nerf 😂
the spammy nature of Fury keeps me from playing it. I have arthritis. And Fury ends my gaming night early lmao. But Arms. Oof I love this spec. Its not as slow as it use to be, and can be alittle spammy, but compared to Fury its at a walking pace, where Fury is and all out sprint. I also enjoy the survivability of Arms to be superior. I just wish the damage of Mortal wounds would be buffed a bit.
Personally, I would put outlaw even higher in the easy to play.... Outside of a couple cooldowns, I have four buttons I press in my normal rotation of button mashing lol
If you aren’t instantly reacting to procs you aren’t playing outlaw to its full potential. With high haste and lust up you have to be very quick to react to what’s happening. If you’re over stacking combo points or using the wrong finisher because you didn’t expect a proc you’re losing dps. Very high skill ceiling
@@alexbrestowski4131 yeah I suppose that is fair to say... Outlaw just doesn't come off as complicated as other melee specs to me.... Like enhancement for example. I've tried it so many different times and there's just way too many goddamn buttons to be keeping track of lol
@@jitter20 haven’t tried enhancement and don’t plan on it lmao. I don’t need the carpal tunnel
Man, I'm a Frost main, and let me tell you, it is the easier spec vs Fury and Ret. You know how many buttons we need? No no, take a guess. 3. You can take everything away except Howling Blast, Frost Strike and Obliterate and we still perform as usual. Add Remorseless and a Pillar Macro and we're done. Everything else is just extra sparkles.
Well, breath at least has some resource + positioning management to do, and gets punished for fucking it up, fury is just like that with 3 buttons + cd macro, except no punishment.
I agree obliteration build is braindead though.
I disagree mostly at the cleave or AOE situations because of the timings and people moving adds out from your pool.
Pala and fury warrior I joked at my mates because it's so faceroll you don't even need to pay attention.
@@morfigasoulslayer You don't even need a pool in TWW. Especially Rider, the AoE casts itself.
@@nireas570 DnD is your key skill. If the tank pulls mobs away from your DnD, your damage will be significantly lower by a tier. That's just how it is.
Another thing, you need to have as many obliterates in your DnD window as possible, because otherwise, the difference in damage is extreme.
In what world is havoc harder than ww, outlaw, survival, unh. The only technicality to the spec is glimpse. Also rogue and unh dk at the highest level are pretty close in skill. Enh isn’t even close id say rogue > feral/unhdk > everything else
I agree with most of these, except windwalker. Their opener is too many buttons, maybe with macros it can become easier. I'd rank um hard about the 5th hardest.
Snapshotting on feral is super simple in this version and not even difficult. In mop you could snapshot almost everything, that was far more difficult.
Just a side comment for Havic: Inertia is really difficult to min max but Momentum doesn’t require any thought since it stacks up to 30 seconds now. Momentum is great for new players that want to get used to the movement but don’t want to worry about the short Inertia window.
Inertia single handedly made me enjoy playing havoc.
I must do something horribly wrong if you put Enhance into hardest category :D
Playing a Ret Paladin, doing damage is not the only requirement. Whenever there is a death, the paladin should have used a hand. Whenever there is a healer in distress, the paladin should be off healing, removing toxins, protecting the tank or healer etc. I have a 22 keys gamepad and before the War Within, I still had not enough keys to bind all the abilities that I needed to effectively play a Ret paladin in myth+ content.
And the worst: Whenever something goes wrong, it's the fault of the ret paladin because, as said, he didn't use his hands or heals to save the day. VERY annoying. Compared to death knights and demon hunters an any other class that has no ability to help the other players, the ret paladin is probably the hardest. If you don't care to help any other player, the paladin is easy, but also quite useless 🙂
my favorite class so far is ret pally and mm hunter
Enhance is basically old arcane mage level of complex/difficulty if you run the insanely bloated elementalist build. Storm build though is much more approachable.
Storm build is meta for enhance, it’s super easy now
yeah storm is easy for sure, i did mention that! meta builds can change at any moment tho
@@dylanwarner6035 Stormbringer hero talents are meta, but the dragon flight storm build is not - at least not in keys. Meta currently is elementalist build, with 1 point in Pwave and then you grab thorum’s invocation on the right side of the tree. Past couple nerfs killed the traditional storm build and it seems like they’re having a hard time making it better without simultaneously improving elementalist, but as it stands it’s even more convoluted than it was in dragon flight
@@fishunit1088that’s not really an elementalist build though, it’s a new pseudoelementalist build, and it’s easier than elementalist because you don’t need to tab out flame shock debuffs (just lightning rod, heh). Honestly flame shock does very little damage itself except on massive pulls, it’s really there for that pwave lightning.
@@kalasmournrex1470 I’m sorry this is just objectively false. Flameshock is one of your highest damage dealing abilities when you spread lashing flames debuff on all targets affected by flameshock. For context lava lash is a higher priority ability in the AOE rotation than ice strike and frost shock because of the debuff and how potent it is. I’m also not sure what you mean by it only doing damage on massive pulls? The larger the pull the less influence the damage has as you’re target capped at 6 flameshocks total. The difficulty of the spec is that the play pattern is exactly the same as dragonflight, except now you have to manage lightning rods as well as lashing flames so your changing targets even more. You now also have chain lightning, tempest and awakening storms to manage, altering further an already convoluted priority list
Enhance honestly yeah is probably one of the most micro management. It's a lot.
Enhancement needs to be in its own tier. Most difficult unenjoyable class I’ve ever played. Also very weird for someone to say demon hunter is hard. It’s the most brain dead class in the game
I'm loving enhance this tier. Agreed though, DH is NOT hard
theres no reason to play elemetalist build on enh when you get beat by so many classes that req WAYYYYYYYYY less effort to play
Unless it’s fun
This aged well
I think I'd put Outlaw on either Harder or Hardest - the APM and reaction times needed can be tricky to get used to, and the damn AR uptime can be cursed depending on the fight/dungeon.
Pack Leader heavily influenced your priorities in survival hunter to optimally play the spec. Sentinel tho just plays the same
There we go!
i cant decide between frost and fury. it drives me crazy
Literally same!
Everyone and their moms will be frost. Go fury, I am. Frost isn’t that fun to me. Slow.
Fdk best lore👍
I feel like Enhancement should play similar to Devastation Evoker.