When I was a young Bloke and a student I bought a 1954 South Bend clone which had wear in the cross slide screw and nut. I took the bits to TAFE with me to do a repair as a “foreign order” The teacher asked “what’s your plan” and where is your list of the order of operations?? Doooohhhhh, says I!! He said” Do this ……He made a new cutting tool with narrower tooth form to cater for the wear and cleaned up the thread and in 10 minutes set up yo cut a new matching cross sled nut. “Thanks heaps “, says I……….Says he “ that’s saved you a bit of money” You can’t beat experience, and I Learned that there’s more than one way to skin a cat!! Stavros
I did this on my 1913 vintage Lodge and Shipley lathe except with a twist. I mounted the newer style nuts on both sides of the adapter. One side fixed and locked in. The other side threaded in and held in place with a couple set screws. I adjust the side with set screws in or out to take all the backlash out. Using 2 nuts like this i can manage under .001" backlash. And then adjust it as it wears.
That sounds like a very good solution. Did you have any issues with the nut holder (adapter) needing to be longer to accommodate the two nuts, and thus reducing the travel of the cross slide before it interferes with something? But overall, I'm very impressed with what you are describing. Thanks for watching.
Well that has to feel satisfying to be finished. I hope you don’t have too much withdrawal after finishing such a big project~Or~ maybe it’s more like “haha - never again!!!” Well done, Sir, now go have several naps! 😁
Thank you for this post. Are you suggesting to solder the brass insert inside the steel holder, after it is screwed it? If so, that's an interesting suggestion. I could heat the whole thing up and get the solder to wick into all the small places.... Thanks!
Nice work! If I was doing it, (and I will on my 9" SB,) I will get two bronze ACME nuts, center the adapter thread shoulder to the attachment screw hole, trim the ACME nuts to shorter length, locktite one ACME nut in one end, and grub screw the second ACME nut into the other end. This way, I can adjust the second ACME nut to take up end play. I would drill the grub screw into the adapter at 90° to the lead screw, probably at a 45° angle to the top of the adapter, and knock off enough of the mounting shoulder to provide a flat to start the grub screw hole.
I did something probably pretty stupid which is why I've never seen anyone else do, but it worked perfectly. I degreased my original cast iron nut and brased the internal threads then ran a 7/16X10 left hand tap through. It's a little tight but I can't feel any backlash whatsoever.
I think repairing threads like that was pretty slick. "It ain't stupid if it works!" But I'm a little confused. I have never heard of a nut being made of cast iron. Do you mean that you took the cast iron nut holder, removed the nut, filled that newly-empty space with bronze, and then threaded that? If so, that's cool too. Thanks for watching!
@@KevinToppenberg Nope, cast iron. Not exactly sure the yr but probably late 40's Logan model 400. It took a little work to get 80 something years of way oil out of the porous metal but eventually I got it to work.
@@KevinToppenberg I used Oxy/Acetylene and fluxed brass rods. Admittedly it didn't go all that smoothly at first. In my opinion brazing takes practice. But I got there in the end. Hopefully I'll have at least a benchtop mill if I ever need to do it again I'd make a new one from scratch.
@@KBLIZZ333 Yeah, I have almost no experience with brazing. It is a skill I hope to gain one day. But it is cool that you succeeded. And I like how you came up with a creative solution!
Hello Kevin, first time here, new subscriber and proud owner of a 1942 South Bend 13 inch x 6 foot tool room lathe, taper attachment , 3 and 4 jaw, but sadly no collet closer...looking forward to more of your channel.....Paul in Central Florida
If you have backlash, be it 1 thousandth or 1 millimetre, you still have to allow for it in your work plan. Once you master the technique you can forge ahead………….remember to always move the slide in the same direction…………you can’t back off and reverse the travel! Turning the graduation wheel and panicking only causes you stress, a few degrees of backlash ain’t a problem if you keep your wits about you. Stavros
Well thanks for making a cool video! my cross slide nut is pretty bad on my very similar 1935 15" southbend that I just got. I made a cool tiny little boring bar tool a while ago that takes a hss jewelry graver for the bit.
Hello Kevin, i enjou the serie. And with a last name that seems to be dutch you have the aditude to go on even there is a mistake. I'm curius when you con on with the Bridge Port, I have to from 1996 in metric and renovate this machine without new painting because a machine with that age me been seen as she is with all here outside wear. It was a nice project but cost a lot off money. Good luck with your renovation, i'm following you.
Thank you for your comment. My last name is actually from Denmark. When the King changed everyone from the paternal naming system (i.e. Mads' son was called Madson) to family names, my ancestor took the name of the Toppenbjerg (Hill-top) farm. I visited there once. Very cool! Sounds like you have some fun projects going too. Best wishes!
Kevin, great videos! I have the EXACT same model. Could you help me out and tell me where you purchased your drive belt and what size? Again, great videos! Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words. I got the belts for the lathe at an auto parts store. I think 44" is the right size. Have you seen my other video where I address this? th-cam.com/video/-udRAJ-QUA4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=J2SXvljg3ws2wSrz&t=1396 Best wises, Kevin
@@KevinToppenberg I did. I caught all the episodes while tending to my Lathe in the shop. I was curious about the flat drive belt for the spindle. Mine is too short to give me proper speeds.
@@mjreihle851 Oh, the flat belt. The one mine came with was just the right size. So I didn't have to do anything about it. I know that SouthBend put out a manual about how to stitch a belt together if needed. But I can't find it. I did find this site that makes belts of custom lengths www.squirreldaddy.com/South-Bend-lathe-Flat-drive-lathe-belt-1-inch-wide-p/belt1.htm And this looks like another good resource. woodshopmike.com/stitching-a-flat-belt-for-machinery/ Best wishes!
You probably did. Because I am doing many things at once, often things will show up in 1 video that were really happening in the timeline of a video a few episodes back. Hollywood magic? Thanks for watching.
I've been thinking more about your comment. I think I misread it before, thinking that you were talking about the cross slide screw. But of course you were talking about the treading dial, as you said. I hope to put a video out about this in a few weeks. How is your build going?
@@KevinToppenberg unfortunately I am dealing with so many things right now it's hard to find much time for worms...lol...rental properties, cars, favors for friends, mowing equipment....some days it's a bit too much..lol..hopefully I will get back to the gear soon
Hello Kevin, I watched this video on my phone and I might have missed something but I'm thinking you said the threads were 8 TPI. I was wondering how your dials work with that. Are your dials .125" per turn and not .100"?
Yes, I think that is correct. They are not an even 100 thou. I was going to say that it is because the mill is old. But then I remember that the modern lathe where I trained also had something like 125 thou' per rotation. Thanks for watching!
@@KevinToppenberg This seems very odd to me. I think I would have used 3/4"-10 TPI and made new dials. Maybe I'm lazy with math but .125" is hard to work with.
@@WinkysWorkshop hope you are doing well, just trying to make a few videos my self......more of a Art endeavor.....and of course welding and machining......Cheers, and stay in touch, Paul.....by the way, I have a 1942 build 13" South Bend with 6 foot bed......here is a video of the runout.....th-cam.com/video/4zvB3W96g0Q/w-d-xo.html
That nut not going on makes no sense to me... A tap should have the cutting profile as to not allow a deeper thread height than the screw shall accommodate... Just as dies do cut the major diameter if you leave the initial material at 100% engagement(not pleasant to do so and make any size screw in anything but aluminum or brass as it can break dies and requires so much more force than say 90% engagement)... So it makes me wonder how did your tap manage to result in a nut that had minor diameter larger than minor of the factory made screw... By any modern standard, it should not have happened... Also, consider getting two of those nutserts rather than one, make a longer housing, modify them a bit, key them inside the housing and make a backlash eliminating nut... Two such pieces would make an elimination nut that would last for ages and allow for cool oiling methods to be done, aswell as a longer travel, as the locating boss can be places anywhere atop the housing for the nutserts, allowing you to pull the crosslide towards you at least a bit more, heck, you could even put a thread wiper in there on each side and lube injection from the inside, as to have the crosslide screw and nuts always be as clean as possible and well lubed... Such a system could go on for what, over 15 years of constant duty work in two shifts, let alone what little hours you or me would put a lathe like that through... I know that after 4 hours at a lathe, tho i love every second of it, i am ridden into dirt like a rally car... Same with milling, even tho it is a powerfeed system, just the observation and focus demanded are enough to warrant some oxygen therapy from my oxy,acetilene bottles... Aint nothing like it... People drink coffee to increase heart rate to get more oxygen and seem more rested, others do cocaine, which does the same, but harder... I just snort oxygen and then go for some hookers, it much more professional, i`ve been told... jk, but it is much nicer to breathe more oxygen than to chemically induce high heart rate to achieve the same effect... Just crack open the bottle and vent it into a closed room for a few seconds, as unregulated oxygen therapy can be dangerous, but adding a bit to air will do no harm whatsoever... Dont sniff it directly or rig up an inhalation method, just release a bit for a few seconds...
When I look at my tap, it has a large relief that is much smaller than the inner diameter of the nut. So I think the ID had to be brought to specified diameter before tapping. Regarding using 2 nut inserts to allow adjustment for backlash, I think this is a genius idea! Wish I would have thought of it before! Thanks for watching.
@@KevinToppenberg Oh why, my fine sir, the honor is all mine, and so was the pleasure of viewing! Seeing people do what they can to return such monads of artistry and craft back to life is one of the few worldly pleasures that is as close as it gets to holy... It is an act of love, tho, sometimes it does involve percussive endearment... Regarding the nuts, well, as a machine lover, i do greatly enjoy working out the ways that allow the machine to truly be what it is meant to be - a faithful mechanical companion, willing to do what otherwise would require time or effort, and dealing with backlash is consuming both time and effort when you want to do any even pseudo precision work... All the best and warmest regards, Steuss
thats funny. people thinkin they are gettin a lil better becuse of the name. yet its the same junk from china. with a diff label. sad they pay more for it to. hahhahahahha
I don't understand. Are you saying that my new nut, because it is from China, is worse than the prior old worn-out nut? The point of my adapter is that one could replace it with a new nut in the future if/when it wears out. Thanks for the feedback.
If you are talking about measuring the backlash, then I covered this in my prior video. I had to present them out of sequence. But when I was going through the final backlash assessment, I also ran into problems with the lead screw handle having play. So it is hard to tell exactly how much each part is contributing.
When I was a young Bloke and a student I bought a 1954 South Bend clone which had wear in the cross slide screw and nut. I took the bits to TAFE with me to do a repair as a “foreign order”
The teacher asked “what’s your plan” and where is your list of the order of operations?? Doooohhhhh, says I!!
He said” Do this
……He made a new cutting tool with narrower tooth form to cater for the wear and cleaned up the thread and in 10 minutes set up yo cut a new matching cross sled nut.
“Thanks heaps “, says I……….Says he “ that’s saved you a bit of money”
You can’t beat experience, and I Learned that there’s more than one way to skin a cat!!
Stavros
Having a good teacher is a blessing! Thanks for watching.
I did this on my 1913 vintage Lodge and Shipley lathe except with a twist. I mounted the newer style nuts on both sides of the adapter. One side fixed and locked in. The other side threaded in and held in place with a couple set screws. I adjust the side with set screws in or out to take all the backlash out. Using 2 nuts like this i can manage under .001" backlash. And then adjust it as it wears.
That sounds like a very good solution. Did you have any issues with the nut holder (adapter) needing to be longer to accommodate the two nuts, and thus reducing the travel of the cross slide before it interferes with something? But overall, I'm very impressed with what you are describing. Thanks for watching.
@@KevinToppenberg I shortened the adapter to account for the thickness of the acme nut on the end facing the apron. I don't think I lost any travel.
@@a-k-jun-1 Awesome! Sounds very cool. Best wishes.
Bravo!
Potential game changer here, for many other machines, as well…
Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice job, Kevin.
Thanks!
Well that has to feel satisfying to be finished. I hope you don’t have too much withdrawal after finishing such a big project~Or~ maybe it’s more like “haha - never again!!!” Well done, Sir, now go have several naps! 😁
I think a little bit of both. I'm happy to be done, I definitely need a break, but I'm likely to fall into another big project all to soon. :-)
you can solder the two parts together. with soft solder tin. that fills everything and that never goes out.
Thank you for this post. Are you suggesting to solder the brass insert inside the steel holder, after it is screwed it? If so, that's an interesting suggestion. I could heat the whole thing up and get the solder to wick into all the small places.... Thanks!
Good for you. Well done.
Thanks! Kind of you to watch. 🙂
Grats Kevin! What a journey! It looks great and it was awesome to watch your process. Gotta admit, I wish I had an MPA tee like yours.
You need to come back to a reunion! Would love to see you again!
@@KevinToppenberg if only I lived closer :)
Nice work! If I was doing it, (and I will on my 9" SB,) I will get two bronze ACME nuts, center the adapter thread shoulder to the attachment screw hole, trim the ACME nuts to shorter length, locktite one ACME nut in one end, and grub screw the second ACME nut into the other end. This way, I can adjust the second ACME nut to take up end play. I would drill the grub screw into the adapter at 90° to the lead screw, probably at a 45° angle to the top of the adapter, and knock off enough of the mounting shoulder to provide a flat to start the grub screw hole.
I think that using two nuts to allow removing backlash is a much better solution. I just didn't think of it when I was doing this. Live and learn! 🙂
I enjoy your editing style.....well done.....Paul
Thanks! It takes FOREVER! So I'm glad someone likes it. :-)
I did something probably pretty stupid which is why I've never seen anyone else do, but it worked perfectly. I degreased my original cast iron nut and brased the internal threads then ran a 7/16X10 left hand tap through. It's a little tight but I can't feel any backlash whatsoever.
I think repairing threads like that was pretty slick. "It ain't stupid if it works!" But I'm a little confused. I have never heard of a nut being made of cast iron. Do you mean that you took the cast iron nut holder, removed the nut, filled that newly-empty space with bronze, and then threaded that? If so, that's cool too. Thanks for watching!
@@KevinToppenberg Nope, cast iron. Not exactly sure the yr but probably late 40's Logan model 400. It took a little work to get 80 something years of way oil out of the porous metal but eventually I got it to work.
@@KBLIZZ333 Well, you brazing will probably make your lead screw last longer! I'm assuming that the brazing material is softer than cast iron.
@@KevinToppenberg I used Oxy/Acetylene and fluxed brass rods. Admittedly it didn't go all that smoothly at first. In my opinion brazing takes practice. But I got there in the end. Hopefully I'll have at least a benchtop mill if I ever need to do it again I'd make a new one from scratch.
@@KBLIZZ333 Yeah, I have almost no experience with brazing. It is a skill I hope to gain one day. But it is cool that you succeeded. And I like how you came up with a creative solution!
Hay here is an Idea use some Red Lock tite it might keep the brass and steel mate together. I'm hoping that will work out for you.
Yeah, that is a good idea. Next time I have it apart, I'll have to add that in. Thanks!
Hello Kevin, first time here, new subscriber and proud owner of a 1942 South Bend 13 inch x 6 foot tool room lathe, taper attachment , 3 and 4 jaw, but sadly no collet closer...looking forward to more of your channel.....Paul in Central Florida
Welcome! Do they make a collet closer for the 1942 model? I don't think there is one for mine. Thanks for watching!
If you have backlash, be it 1 thousandth or 1 millimetre, you still have to allow for it in your work plan. Once you master the technique you can forge ahead………….remember to always move the slide in the same direction…………you can’t back off and reverse the travel!
Turning the graduation wheel and panicking only causes you stress, a few degrees of backlash ain’t a problem if you keep your wits about you.
Stavros
This is good advice. Thanks!
Well thanks for making a cool video! my cross slide nut is pretty bad on my very similar 1935 15" southbend that I just got. I made a cool tiny little boring bar tool a while ago that takes a hss jewelry graver for the bit.
I think that nut is the first major thing I need to make for it.
These old lathes are a piece of history. It is cool that you have one!
It was a fun build, but buying one on Ebay would have been much easier!
Hello Kevin, i enjou the serie. And with a last name that seems to be dutch you have the aditude to go on even there is a mistake. I'm curius when you con on with the Bridge Port, I have to from 1996 in metric and renovate this machine without new painting because a machine with that age me been seen as she is with all here outside wear. It was a nice project but cost a lot off money. Good luck with your renovation, i'm following you.
Thank you for your comment. My last name is actually from Denmark. When the King changed everyone from the paternal naming system (i.e. Mads' son was called Madson) to family names, my ancestor took the name of the Toppenbjerg (Hill-top) farm. I visited there once. Very cool! Sounds like you have some fun projects going too. Best wishes!
Kevin, great videos! I have the EXACT same model. Could you help me out and tell me where you purchased your drive belt and what size? Again, great videos! Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words. I got the belts for the lathe at an auto parts store. I think 44" is the right size. Have you seen my other video where I address this? th-cam.com/video/-udRAJ-QUA4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=J2SXvljg3ws2wSrz&t=1396 Best wises, Kevin
@@KevinToppenberg I did. I caught all the episodes while tending to my Lathe in the shop. I was curious about the flat drive belt for the spindle. Mine is too short to give me proper speeds.
@@mjreihle851 Oh, the flat belt. The one mine came with was just the right size. So I didn't have to do anything about it. I know that SouthBend put out a manual about how to stitch a belt together if needed. But I can't find it. I did find this site that makes belts of custom lengths www.squirreldaddy.com/South-Bend-lathe-Flat-drive-lathe-belt-1-inch-wide-p/belt1.htm And this looks like another good resource. woodshopmike.com/stitching-a-flat-belt-for-machinery/ Best wishes!
@@KevinToppenberg thank you for the info and thanks again for the hard work put into the videos
I thought I saw a thread dial on your table in the build process...I also have a half finished one started for my logan
You probably did. Because I am doing many things at once, often things will show up in 1 video that were really happening in the timeline of a video a few episodes back. Hollywood magic? Thanks for watching.
I've been thinking more about your comment. I think I misread it before, thinking that you were talking about the cross slide screw. But of course you were talking about the treading dial, as you said. I hope to put a video out about this in a few weeks. How is your build going?
@@KevinToppenberg unfortunately I am dealing with so many things right now it's hard to find much time for worms...lol...rental properties, cars, favors for friends, mowing equipment....some days it's a bit too much..lol..hopefully I will get back to the gear soon
@@craigtate5930 Life has been hard these past few years. Hang in there! Best wishes and I hope it goes OK when you get back to the project.
Olá amigo qual macho vc usou pra fazer essa rosca
Desculpe amigo, meu português não é bom o suficiente (Sorry my friend, my Portuguese is not good enough) 😞
@@KevinToppenberg kkk entendi só essa parte como ru keria enter sua língua iria mim ajudar
👍🏻
Thanks!
Hello Kevin, I watched this video on my phone and I might have missed something but I'm thinking you said the threads were 8 TPI. I was wondering how your dials work with that. Are your dials .125" per turn and not .100"?
Yes, I think that is correct. They are not an even 100 thou. I was going to say that it is because the mill is old. But then I remember that the modern lathe where I trained also had something like 125 thou' per rotation. Thanks for watching!
@@KevinToppenberg This seems very odd to me. I think I would have used 3/4"-10 TPI and made new dials. Maybe I'm lazy with math but .125" is hard to work with.
@@WinkysWorkshop hello Winky, Paul in Orlando, we met at Ft Mead last spring.....cheers from Orlando , Paul
@@ypaulbrown Hello Paul, good to hear from you.
@@WinkysWorkshop hope you are doing well, just trying to make a few videos my self......more of a Art endeavor.....and of course welding and machining......Cheers, and stay in touch, Paul.....by the way, I have a 1942 build 13" South Bend with 6 foot bed......here is a video of the runout.....th-cam.com/video/4zvB3W96g0Q/w-d-xo.html
It looks like you have the compound set at the wrong 30 degrees.
I don't recall, but you are probably right. 😜
My thoughts too.
That nut not going on makes no sense to me... A tap should have the cutting profile as to not allow a deeper thread height than the screw shall accommodate... Just as dies do cut the major diameter if you leave the initial material at 100% engagement(not pleasant to do so and make any size screw in anything but aluminum or brass as it can break dies and requires so much more force than say 90% engagement)... So it makes me wonder how did your tap manage to result in a nut that had minor diameter larger than minor of the factory made screw... By any modern standard, it should not have happened... Also, consider getting two of those nutserts rather than one, make a longer housing, modify them a bit, key them inside the housing and make a backlash eliminating nut... Two such pieces would make an elimination nut that would last for ages and allow for cool oiling methods to be done, aswell as a longer travel, as the locating boss can be places anywhere atop the housing for the nutserts, allowing you to pull the crosslide towards you at least a bit more, heck, you could even put a thread wiper in there on each side and lube injection from the inside, as to have the crosslide screw and nuts always be as clean as possible and well lubed... Such a system could go on for what, over 15 years of constant duty work in two shifts, let alone what little hours you or me would put a lathe like that through... I know that after 4 hours at a lathe, tho i love every second of it, i am ridden into dirt like a rally car... Same with milling, even tho it is a powerfeed system, just the observation and focus demanded are enough to warrant some oxygen therapy from my oxy,acetilene bottles... Aint nothing like it... People drink coffee to increase heart rate to get more oxygen and seem more rested, others do cocaine, which does the same, but harder... I just snort oxygen and then go for some hookers, it much more professional, i`ve been told... jk, but it is much nicer to breathe more oxygen than to chemically induce high heart rate to achieve the same effect... Just crack open the bottle and vent it into a closed room for a few seconds, as unregulated oxygen therapy can be dangerous, but adding a bit to air will do no harm whatsoever... Dont sniff it directly or rig up an inhalation method, just release a bit for a few seconds...
When I look at my tap, it has a large relief that is much smaller than the inner diameter of the nut. So I think the ID had to be brought to specified diameter before tapping. Regarding using 2 nut inserts to allow adjustment for backlash, I think this is a genius idea! Wish I would have thought of it before! Thanks for watching.
@@KevinToppenberg Oh why, my fine sir, the honor is all mine, and so was the pleasure of viewing! Seeing people do what they can to return such monads of artistry and craft back to life is one of the few worldly pleasures that is as close as it gets to holy... It is an act of love, tho, sometimes it does involve percussive endearment... Regarding the nuts, well, as a machine lover, i do greatly enjoy working out the ways that allow the machine to truly be what it is meant to be - a faithful mechanical companion, willing to do what otherwise would require time or effort, and dealing with backlash is consuming both time and effort when you want to do any even pseudo precision work...
All the best and warmest regards,
Steuss
12:57 It's made in China and xi jingping buys nukes from the money.
Yeah, that makes it not so attractive.... Thanks for watching anyway.
thats funny. people thinkin they are gettin a lil better becuse of the name. yet its the same junk from china. with a diff label. sad they pay more for it to. hahhahahahha
I don't understand. Are you saying that my new nut, because it is from China, is worse than the prior old worn-out nut? The point of my adapter is that one could replace it with a new nut in the future if/when it wears out. Thanks for the feedback.
Can you measure your results? Interesting, thanks.
If you are talking about measuring the backlash, then I covered this in my prior video. I had to present them out of sequence. But when I was going through the final backlash assessment, I also ran into problems with the lead screw handle having play. So it is hard to tell exactly how much each part is contributing.