I installed a 35kw solar system with 15kw of battery storage for $25k myself. I got a local company to assist with the engineering plans I obtained a permit from the city. I had an electronics background knew nothing about roof mounting. I used the K2 rail system was impressed how well designed and low cost it was. I can add more batteries , and daisy chain more inverters if I want. I use EG4 inverters and LifeP04 batter server racks they sell very good product. Nothing wrong with Growatt, or Schneider electric. I'm close to cutting the cord with the utility possibly this year been a lifelong goal of mine to watch them remove that meter I'll put in a cover no longer be dependent on a monopoly.
You need about 50-70kWh of battery storage to pair with a solar array of that size. How are you getting away with almost no storage? That’s awesome overall though!
@@Superiorsolarconsulting That's why I have to continue to use utility in the summer. Winter I can get away with lot less my KWH is much lower here in Phoenix. EG4-LL 30.72KWH rack is $10k would need 3 of them $30k in batteries to have 90kHW 100% off gird from signature solar. We are also looking at moving up to Show Low AZ. I will remove all the solar from the house install it up there on solar tracker that keep it aligned to the sun. Essentially all I will need is a well for water and I can live completely off grid self-sustaining on 37 acres. I can do whatever I want no city to bother me. My property would be miles from the main road. I have an electric powered ultralight called Aerolite EV-103 I'm building. I could fly it from the property land it at the airports or dirt roads. Small airports allow ultralights to land can borrow car from the FBO bring supplies back to my property. Always dreamed of having a home without being dependent on government. There are people here who have even bigger systems then I do heat their pool in the winter to 90F with 130k BTU heat pumps on solar.
Placing a lien on your property is the last thing you want to do. Once you buy a house, you need to learn that borrowing against your property will remove your rights to sell, or partially with a contract that a future buyer won’t need. I rather own electric bill than owning a contract that you cannot sell
This cat Julian is refeshing. Great to see a fellow solar sales pro that does so with integrity. If the bad apples out their realized you dont have to manipulate, hide or lie to sell solar, on the contrary - when you reveal all the truth transparently and tell the homeowner all - you gain credibility and you contrast greatly from all the others.
As consumers all these solar companies need oversight like utilities and to be regulated! If my electric company serviced the community this way, we'd all be in an uproar! But if I call my eletric company, they respond quite quickly! Great customer service!
I totally agree but the prices would skyrocket if contractors had to worry about a whole new aspect of running their companies. Consumers need to not just say yes to the guy who knocks on their door
SunRun told me I had to buy power from the equipment on my roof no matter if I used it or not. Most of the time I would be paying SunRun more for the power than I could sell it to the local utility for. They wanted a 25 year contract under which, to get out of it, I'd need to pay off all remaining payments. This video is very helpful.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Bifacial panels are for ground mounts with a certain kind of tilt. Most panels are a few inches off a roof and bifacial modules would be a waste of money in that case
This video was wonderfully helpful to me. I was just at the beginning of digging into putting solar panels on my roof and making that investment. Looking around for information I could gain some knowledge from and found your video here. You literally saved me from making a very big mistake. Knowledge is power and you have given me a huge boost! Thank you.
Thank you, you've convinced me to not get solar panels installed on my home. I remember when; if you wanted satellite TV you had to install these very large receiving dishes on your property. Then skip a decade and the dishes were 1/100 the size for the same service at a fraction of the price. Now, I no longer need those small dishes as I have high bandwidth cable and can stream and enjoy internet access at speeds we never dreamed of back then. These solar panels on your roof are going to be obsolete well before the 25-year lifespan when you sell your house and no buyer is going to consider them a value, because the new technology will be far better and cheaper than the old stuff.
No you need to go solar. Best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago and the next is today. All newer, smaller panels will do is create electricity as well
Talk w/ Cody today. He was honest and upfront about my inquiry. So, I just Subscribed. Will give you THUMBS UP on all your videos. Definitely will refer you to my friends. Stay Safe Ruben Tiosejo
I know nothing about solar. Yesterday, I came home and a sweet looking young woman (solar saleswoman) was sitting with my wife offering her to buy solar (PPA with an escalator). I've been burnt before. I always say I will research things before signing anything. She kept pushing and even offered to come back to the house 3 times, to show us things. Today, after watching a few TH-cam videos, I called her and told her "NO".
I’m not even in solar sales but I can definitely see these guys are just pushing there products. My neighbor actually purchased his panels and paid like 220 per month and literally right after he paid them off they STOPPED WORKING!!!! The company he bought them from said they are your panels your problem. I actually have sunrun ppa I pay 150$ my bill use to be 300$ “just like my neighbor” and 13 years later they still work they stopped producing sufficient power like 3 years ago and in one month they came out and replaced some damaged panels. They even covered the difference of the ppa price and the rest of my utility bill. So thanks but no thanks I’m happy with my ppa. I don’t want to spend 35k for a depreciating asset made of glass on my roof 👍🏼
The panels just stopping working after the system is paid for it doesn’t make sense. It sounds like the centralized inverter was never connected correctly or failed prematurely which is very common. A PPA will cost you much more over the lifetime and gives you pretty much no flexibility to get out a it early
Lots of thanks to you two. I was very close to completing an agreement with sunrun but something just don’t sit right in my gusts and you guys helps me make the final decision.
Years ago i looked into sunrun and all the others companies. They charged an arm and a leg but still doesn’t adds up. Im in process of getting 32 panels for 37k minus 11k credit and another 1k credit, making the system cost like 25k. I choose finance over anything else. Since I finance for 10yrs my bills will be higher but still lower than my peak grid used. The system is warranty for 25yrs, so after 10yrs ill start seeing profits. Would be best if i got cash but since I don’t I gotta finance. Anyway, the system offset like 186% of my used, so hopefully the excess would send over to the grid and cover my usage during peak months.
If you need a consultation please reach out. I have area experts all around the country. 760-473-5878. We can provide a great proposal, and hopefully earn your business.
I was swindled into going PPA. IM 75 old. I was taken advantage of. I had to a new roof. An authorized person removed my panels. Im in a battle now because I refuse to have the panels put back on my house. I receive no benefit. I was taken advantage of.
Thank you for doing this. I have been searching for solar information and just keep bumping in the solar company’s sales pitch which just have felt like lies to me.
Great video. I'm looking at changing careers from financial planning to solar sales & basically came to the same conclusion that PPA seems like a terrible idea for most ppl & I haven't even sold a system yet. Own the system, get equity, be energy independent, get the tax credit, recoup some cost when you sell vs ppa where you own nothing.
Thank you for all of your valuable info Julian. Not related to leasing panels, but I just got a quote down here in Florida for Solar. They offered me a 25 year loan to pay off the panels. I have a 2400 square foot ranch in sw florida. With a new roof, my quote was $92,000.00!! After further research and watching your videos, I realize they were trying to rob me. I then asked him how many KW he was providing, the answer is 14.43. The total cost of the solar without the roof was $72,000. This works out to over $5 per kilowatt. I wish you were in my area! maybe then it would make sense to go solar
it's actually more expensive in San Diego. Your $5ppw (not kW) factors in the financing/dealer costs. I don't think they were trying to rob you, very industry standard pricing actually.
@@SPROS2024Contractors assume anyone who lives in southern California is wealthy because you own a 1-million-dollar home. Most solar installers make 3-4 times what it cost them to buy the parts. That way the owner gets paid $1000-1500 an hour wage. The homeowner makes $350-400k a year salary what does he care if it cost 70-100k over 20 years.
Um....yeah you were talking to dishonest people. Did they not recommend to you a ground mount since you have so much property? Ground mount solar is far more efficient and you don't need to get a new roof to have one installed. You need to go ground mount.
Great. I almost signed up with Sunnova on a PPA plan for 65k after 25 years, but during the signing process I noticed they had the wrong address for my house so I still had 4 boxes to digitally sign so we had to stop it. I told them I could not start over today and would call them in a few days. They had to call and cancel the process because of the wrong address. I hope I was not scammed.
Julian, thank you so much for your videos. Your’s is the first channel I’ve found that really counters every point the solar sales guys feed you in a very understandable way. There I was minding my own business in Home Depot the other day when someone from Sunrun hijacked me in the lighting aisle. Gave the whole pitch, had another sales person come to my house, met with a second large solar company in the northeast for due diligence and was pretty much ready to pull the trigger. However, something didn’t feel right. It felt like there was no downside to what they were saying. Through talking with friends, realtors and getting real world perspective plus Googling around/finding your channel, I’ve been saved from a potential huge mistake signing up for a PPA. Now I’m thinking through purchasing my own system and learning lots from you. Thank you for this content!
I am a SunRun rep and I always tell my prospective clients the pros and cons of both because at the end of the day, I’m trying to help people save money and help the environment. Usually the ppa is a better alternative for people who don’t have the credit to qualify for a loan but still want to save some money vs sticking with the traditional electric company. If you have the means, buying your system cash is the most profitable way to go solar but most people don’t have that kind of money to invest and the ones that do are the ones that constantly tell me that they’re not interested in Solar because they can afford to pay $400+ on their electric bill. Anyways our panels are the 2nd most efficient on the market and if you’re thinking of buying, I guarantee you we can give you the best rate.
@@michaelmacias8778 Sun run is a piece of shiiiit company. If ur a rep with honest intentions, find a different company to work at. Sunrun reps: if ur mouth is moving, ur lying.
@@michaelmacias8778 The best rate? Do tell. The SunRun Rep at Costco told me the mark up was huge on their systems. He made 14k for one month and he was just a Solar Ambassador, not even the guy going out to the house, aka the expert. So he gets his cut too, and the contractors that put it in get their cut and lets not forget about your COE, she wants her cut as well. Too many finger's in the pie. I'm not sure what your pulling in, but they have to use equipment that it's as good. It's like buying a Dell, there is good, better, and best parts. Gamers always want the best, that's why most of them learned how to make their own computers.
Is there any way I can offer a PPA with favorable terms? For example, can I as a solar rep be able to offer a PPA that can: 1. Their monthly bill gets a little bit lower every month. 2. Have an option where they can save up and buy the solar panels in a lump sum for the price I would have sold them to you in cash today. 3. no escalator. 4. Offer the same panel/inverter combo I recommended had we gone with cash. 5. Don't pay unless the panels are actually working. Last question: is the ppa a liability for selling your house if it doesn't have an escalator? Thanks for making videos like this. I think you have the best content about these things on youtube.
Quality Inverters are a critical component for your solar array 1 ) Standard Watt Rating, Normal Operating Module Temperature NOMT/NOCT 2) Degradation Rate: >10% Premium Panels over 25years! >15~20% Mid Grade (Q Cell) Degradation ( certain panels better suited for the heat: Temperature Coefficient ) 9:51
I’m a solar consultant and I sell all three options, PPA, loan, or lease. I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. It all comes down to each homeowner and their situation. I think these guys are trying to sell you on purchasing your system, in reality, whatever you’re trying to sell you will make it sound good. These guys are just two Salesmen doing their job trying to sell the purchase option.
I honestly disagree man, what they are spitting is facts and they aren’t selling anything here except what they believe to be the best knowledge about these systems. Your a salesman? Hard to believe. Did they ask for a close in this video? No. Not selling anything physical for money (which is what I’m assuming your gripes are about)
I bought the PPA from sunrun three years ago at a fixed rate in Riverside County it was $165 payment for 25 years with a zero escalator I sold that house about six months ago the homeowner was glad it was very open to just taking over the payment of 165 for the balance of the term they were very happy to do Edison would have cost him 265.00 month And going up time of us.40 to 60 cents 2 to 9 pm time of use PPA great
You definitely were lucky. A lot of times the PPA causes a huge issue when selling the house and the seller is forced to pay it off before the property is sold because the buyer looks at the math and realizes that if they take over 22 more years of your payments that’s going to add up to 2 to 3 times what a solar system will just cost. Therefore to be honest, the buyer of your house got ripped off and didn’t really understand what was going on. You got lucky though so ultimately congratulations I’m not getting trapped
Would also be interested in hearing the answer to that! I'm speaking to Sunrun at the present time and 2.9% was presented to me. I ran the numbers. My $131/mo cost is $260 in year 25. Of course inflation and Edisons price will also rise so it's difficult to know for sure if that's a good deal or not. I'm starting to think more about purchase rather than PPA.
@@jgootz8329 you don’t need to negotiate…0% escalator should always be available, especially with Sunrun. However you’ll start with a higher cents per kWh rate then with the escalator.
I think this video is a bit old now. I have a PPA here in Texas and my Sunrun contract states maintenance is all done by SunRun and Zero Rate Escalator. I am not allowed to touch the system. I got Sylfab panels with 2 Tesla powerwalls. I immediately see my savings Day 1 rather than wait after I paid off my loan. Your 35K is not accurate if you are paying monthly so the end-cost is much higher than that unless its interest free for some reason, plus the maintenance down the road for example if you need to add more panels. If my equipment is not producing the promised agreement they will either add or replace the panels in the long run whereas in a loan you will be needing to spend more money. Now in Texas we have the ability to do Free nights and weekends as to where the Powerwalls will be charged every night and use solar during the day. I know many states dont have this option but for some people the PPA is a much better option than buying at a much higher interest today. Also, nobody values old technology as it gets outdated so no asset there guys.
So glad I live in a municipality that will not buy back power. As an electrician, I'm involved in setting up large commercial solar sites...the only ones that make sense. Commercial arrays are around 1200 volts per circuit. Get ready to replace your roof when you sell your house, and the solar panels are a negative selling point. Could easily be $20,000 to match shingles on the whole roof. Ground mount arrays when they are the only option make far more sense, or carport arrays separate from the house. The cheaper systems are installed by less experience employees and cheap materials/panels. Keeping the panels off your house is safer when they catch fire because connections heated up due to bad installs.
Holy shit. What an awesome and clear explanation. I was on the phone with Sunrun today. He made the PPA option sound so good, I thought it came with a happy ending. But I coyldn't get past the fact I am installing solar and incurring a new power bill. The entire idea is to get OFF the grid. I will probably hire them to intall the system for the 21,000 cash price and just add my Zendure Powerbase V as a batter backup. Pay cash and walk away from them.
You still pay a bill if you buy solar you just either pay for the loan, full amount in cash after install or have the company come and install for free and pay slightly more. Its not a scam just an alternate option to buying solar. The idea of getting off the grid is not possible in most states. Getting all of your power from solar and having your solar system pay the difference of what you use from the Utility at night depends on your state, roof size, and electric usage.
I appreciate you educating ppl on this topic. Don't pay too much attention to the negativity in the comment section because you don't know their reasoning. A smart person can see your transparency and honesty. Question, once you pay off the loan (system) what residual bill, if any, do you have left?
Hi Julian, thanks for the great video. I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings. The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9% I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year. I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs? Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
As someone just looking into buying a large system for my home and diving deep into this rabbit hole trying to understand purchase - almost feeling like I should sell solar so I can help others figure things out honestly - I would say, you should sell something you can stand behind - today I was given all three options by one company they were honest and upfront about which was the better deal -and it was my choice. For some people that cannot afford the purchase cash or through a loan, then those low interest loans or PPA may benefit and be only option but I appreciate knowing all the facts and then making an educated decision. Going back to you - see what the company says when you want to offer all the options, if not you may need to move to. company that better aligns with your values, in the end it will be better for you I believe.
worst, they make you sign an agreement that you may not be aware making Sunrun being the Owner and not you being the Owner when you pay that lump sum up front. Paying up front may be fine for most situations when you don't have the cash or ability to obtain a low interest loan or loan out right. But you still left with a slight concern what if Sunrun goes bankrupt one of these days. when that happen, not only possible you are will not continue to receive the promise of warranty and guanratee, you have to wond will someone show up and going to come and rip the system off your roof top.
@@johnchan2655 good point. your guarantee is only good as long as the company is around. Also.... it is a public stock company.... Wonder what their cash flow and reserves look like? I've not had a chance to look yet.
Hi Robert, I’m a sales rep for sunrun as well but in California. If your selling .14 a kwh, then it would be easier to pitch that then taking on a loan for 30-50k just to save 20-30 dollars a month on their bill..just wouldn’t make sense to take on that debt, in stead the PPA becomes a better option/ alternative to get their power at a cheaper rate, just like a cheaper gas station, cheaper grocery store etc etc. I’m in California where it’s at .38 a kWh, summer bills are $300-600+ in the summer and we’re selling at .15-.24 cents a kwh. Hope your still with us. Best of luck!
@@tonysilva7993 not to mention, batteries are essential in CA now - and batteries are the most expensive piece of equipment in solar. Sunrun's PPA gives you a 25-year warranty on ALL equipment, and you do not have to take on debt to reduce your electric costs. At the end of the day, these two dudes are still selling, and want to diminish Sunrun's credibility. Not very transparent, eh?
Huh!?!? This video is so misleading. Why would any of those companies you guys are talking down on would offer a program such as a PPA to rip the customer off? What I was able to grasp from this video is that a company that offers you a PPA will cover the customer on maintenance, monitoring their system for 25 years and will offer a no up front cost is scamming you? Wth?! I also noticed you didn’t mention that if the system doesn’t produce the kilowatt they said it would they reimburse you at the end of the year. Why would a company like the one you mentioned would invent such a program to “Scam” people? I actually did a bit more research and I found out that Sunrun also offers a 10 year warranty on your roof after installation no penetration or leak. They also give customers 2 insurances of $1M each. You said that the companies offer crappy solar panels that are outdated and the maintenance is crap. Why would any company install such system if they have to be out often repairing, maintaining, or switching out to new panels all the time for the entirety of the 25 year agreement? That sounds very counterproductive to me. When doing my research I found that the PPA program is not for everyone. If you have the capital to buy your system out right great! Then I guess you can save more. Some families can’t afford a $8K system. You guys said it yourself that going with the PPA at 2.9% is still a lot more cheaper then going with the utility company. You actually put it on a graph! You guys confused me there haha! So you’re talking down on a program that is still cheaper than staying with my utility company? I don’t see how these companies are hiding information like you said they are. If I’d be in your shoes I’d try not to sound like sales guys that probably got fired from one of these companies and now making videos to talk down on them or their programs. I would rather make videos showing your viewers what options they have instead of trying to make other companies look bad and misleading people. Very unprofessional fellas. If you would have given me that presentation in my house you’d immediately be tossed out. It doesn’t look good when you have to talk negatively about other companies and their programs in order for you to convince people to buy from you. That actually sounds more like a “scam” to me. Get your stuff together guys.
PPA’s are the equivalent of getting a loan from the corner loan shark and you still don’t own it. PPA’s are a way for SunRun to make tons of money end of story. It’s not evil and sometimes a PPA can overall make sense but the point of this video is to make people aware that the whole pitch from SunRun about why you shouldn’t buy it is purely so they can make more money. A lot of people get talked into doing a PPA when buying the system would have been a better move for them. Unfortunately salespeople oftentimes are only thinking about commissions.
I caught sunrun. They wanted to install tesla panels for me. Zero down plus a 2000 Costco gift card and charge extra 30k. I went with sunpower and straight from the company finance at .049% 36 panels that will cost 49k with the tax credit. I don’t mind paying expensive because I know Sunpower is quality
You better look at your contract with sunrun again. Stay away from Sunrun. I had an appointment with sunrun. We went over the numbers and the financing and I swear to God, I was laughing at the sales rep by the time she was explaining all the numbers. Sunrun wanted $62,000 for a system that probably cost $12,000. This year in 2023, you can get a 30% rebate on your solar installation. But Sunrun legally steals your rebate. They raise the price of the solar installation 30%. So they walk away with your rebate and stick you with a lease contract for 24 years. You think the interest rate is OK, but no it’s not. Because they add another interest rate to the payment every year. The payment goes up 2.99% every year. After 10 years you’re paying 45% more. Let’s talk about their tesla battery. They want $18,000 for one Tesla battery. I own a Tesla three. The battery on that car is probably stores 3 to 4 times the electricity of their house battery. And it cost $16,000 with labor to replace my car battery. They are completely ripping off the public with their installation. And they’re lease payment that goes up 2.99% every year for 24 years. After 10 years, your solar panels will not be able to pay for the entire electricity bill. The cost of electricity will go up. Your solar panels will not be able to produce enough electricity. So you’ll end up with an electric bill and solar power bill that’s going up every single year 2.99%. Then there is selling your house. What sunrun does is they renegotiate the contract with a new buyer and they want even more money for the panels than seller paid. They don’t care if you sell the house as long as they get paid. One woman paid $60,000 to have the sunrun install Solar panels. When she went to sell the house, the new buyer was told they need to pay $70,000 for the system. She had seven offers on the house. Everyone was rejected after the solar was disclosed. Stay away from the Sunrun solar
Don't sign contracts, you'll pay the electric company too (double bills), tax credit to keep the same payment isn't guaranteed so your payments will go up later for sure.
Julian, I have had 7 different solar companies come into my home. The last one, I was about to sign, but when I went in to a room with my wife to discuss and came back out, they changed the amount by $5 dollars. Not a big deal, but they lost their integrity right then and there. I kicked them out of my house and that was the last time I ever invited solar anyone into my home.
So you spent dozens of hours working on installing solar, and you let a simple mistake ruin your plan? What will you do now? Forego solar install altogether?
Thank you for breaking this down. I had a Sun Run guy come to my house proposing a PPA. It sounded great but I had not done any research. Your video breaks it down and saved me hours of research.
Yes sdge is one of the most expensive utilities in the country. Solar makes more sense here than almost anywhere else. She should look at a custom proposal fir her home. I can help if you’d like. 7604735878
The whole point of going solar is to own your own power and save hundreds of thousands in the long run. There are still beneficial owning option even when you’re retired,on fixed income. I’ve done it. Switching from renting vs owning is always better then renting to renting. If you disagree can you give me an example of a time where the consumer made out better than the producer?
We are currently getting estimates to go solar.. we have a 20 acre home and much sunlight in Florida.. ADT TOMORROW, appointment.. I’m just getting prices.. I need a good company👍🏻 thanks
The information here is not accurate. PPAs are simple to transfer to the next owner and they are a very good option for people who are planning on selling their home in a few years and for rental properties or non-owner-occupied houses. These guys are bashing PPAs because they likely don’t have that option in their sales portfolio.
I have the ability to sell PPAs... If the buyer is okay with transferring the PPA into their name then great. But, I have had so many conversations over the years with people who were set up in a terrible situation where they had to pay the whole PPA off during the sale and it ended up costing thousands. That's very common if you speak to real estate agents.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Your video throws a blanket over all utilities. In California especially in PG&E territory, buyers inherit agreements that are deeply discounted compared to what they would be paying in PG&E kilowatt rates. The only “problems” that we see are very rare with un educated real estate agents who are behind the times.
Excuse me I have a PPA, and I can't even get them to come out and service my solar panels. I had so much water damage to my roof that I had to pay them to remove the panels, so I could pay to get my roof repaired. On top of the monies I am already paying them! No customer service at all! Months to get anyone to respond!
Would some of this hold up in the high rate environment we are in today? I haven't went out to a bank to see what a loan would be, but helocs are around 5.5% right now. I got confronted by Sunrun at Costco and they presented a plan, a PPA I presume, where I'd pay $113/mo for 12 months, and if I keep the $10,000 credit from the government, it would go up to a $165/mo payment or so for 25 years. So that's roughly $40,000 of costs if you account for the credit. I think their rate is 2.99%, too. $33,000 loan amount. I'm very interested in your argument here, but I just don't see how the numbers add up where PPA is much worse. You were throwing around $100,000 costs and such, which probably would be the amount if you got a bank loan out. One thing I did notice was that my plan did say 1 solar edge inverter and Hanwha qcell panels, so there's the mediocre panels and the non microinverter you do warn about. I see that issue before me. I'm just trying to make a decision. Right now, with this plan, it seems I'd get $11,000 cash up front ($10k from the fed and $1k from costco) but, until I get a pool/increase my energy costs more, I'd lose $30/mo since my utility company charges $30+ "customer fee" every month regardless if all my electric needs are provided by the panels. Thanks for your video.
If someone pitched you a deal where you were the one getting the tax credit, then you were actually purchasing the system and it was not a PPA. Just a financed deal. When you do a PPA there is no official interest-rate because you are technically agreeing to buy kilowatt hours for a certain price. If you extrapolate out 25 years of payments and the fact that getting out of it early requires a lump sum of all of the payments if buyers don’t want it transferred, you’re signing an extremely expensive and inflexible plan. Buying the system with a non fee or smaller fee with a higher rate allows for the exit to be much less expensive and allows for tons of home value and equity to built at the same time, helping the sellers leave with more money in their pocket. Even in the best case for the sellers doing a PPA, they will just be able to transfer the debt and no home value increase will occur. It’s really the same concept as buying versus renting your home. Do you want to build equity yourself or pay someone else for a service?
exactly what I was looking for. Had a sunrun salesman try to convince me of all the "good things" for a PPA and everything felt like there was something hiding there and sure enough, it was all of this. Any chance there's an updated version of this info with any changes over the year or are things mostly the same still in 2023?
They got me with the PPA loan dammit!! In 2021 I have saved alot on myb2 family I have 30 panels but listening to this I feel like I got robbed but I am saving a lot
@@byranttaylor1535you didn’t make a bad decision. The ppa will still save you money month to month vs the utility. If you are in California the ppa is the only and best way after nem 3.0 buying a system was only profitable bc the utility was matching the price per kw you were sending back to the grid. Plus with a ppa you don’t have to worry about replacing the panels after 2 decades. Everyone who bought a system outright is going to be stuck with the broken or degenerating panels.
Sunrun installed a defective roof on my house. I chased them with emails and phone calls for two years, now they say they won't finish repairing it. Sunrun installed the roof with undocumented workers. There is damage over the entirety of the roof. One roofer quoted me over $22,000 to repair the roof not including water damage in the walls.
You spoke about people using bad equipment. I would like to know what companies you use and what kind of panels your using. Also what contractors you prefer. SunRun is moving into the Tucson Area. I'm not sure if they are still doing the PPA in our area. I would like to find out. Lynn Jurich used to he a hedge fund person which means that she's all about getting residual income for herself.
Hit the nail on the head with your statement. I prefer Enphase micro-inverters vs the SolarEdge system Sunrun uses. Also, Sunrun is using generally cheaper panels. I like the super efficient panels with lower degradation rates
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So I asked at Costco and on their page and this is what they said. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations. I don't think PPA's are available in Arizona but isn't a lease pretty much the same thing?
@@myke4liberty lease and PPA are essentially the same thing. A PPA is an agreement to buy power at a certain rate for a set amount of time and a lease is paying for the equipment for a set amount of time. It’s the same concept of getting solar without owning it but they are more similar than different and I would avoid both.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So you are seeing the guys comments below right? You company might be around for a while but other people may not be able to get the servicing that they need when an inverter goes. I have a friend that is an Engineer on an Airforce base at Davis Monthin you should be able to see photos of what they are using there. He says that Inverters are not needed on every panel and only drives up the cost. We also have a huge RV community here and with StarLink people are now going grid. From what I have seen and heard they just look at your bill for the past year, because the power companies don't want to send you a check for generating power, but lets say someone wants to get an EV in the future, a current solar system would not be enough to charge one of those cars. Your thoughts please?
Julian, I am active duty in San Diego and just had a consultation with sun run today and they really pushed hard on the PPA. I own a new build in Otay ranch and plan on moving out in the next year but keeping the property as a long term rental property. I plan on keeping the property for passive income for 20+ years. Basically I’m asking if buying is the way to go or the PPA is the way to go. They offered my monthly payment at a fixed rate of $93 a month which would come out to about $27,900. So if I were to buy what panels/setup would you recommend that would end up close to that price? There will be 10 panels.
If you bought a 10 panel system outright you would probably be around $13k gross and then a little under $10,000 net after the tax credit. You can give me a call or text me at (760) 473-5878 and I can help you figure out a better financing lan than doing a 25 year PPA
Dude this whole video is trash. The escalator is on the rate not the whole bill!!! So if your rate is 26 cents............. Go ahead and do the math on 2.9 every year for 25 years
@@matthewpriest5329 Math says your rate more than doubles. Sounds pretty bad, but I am not an expert. So, there's a bill even aside from the rate in a PPA?
@@matthewpriest5329 Because numerically literate people can do the math.. By the end of the 25 years, your rate in that last year will be more than double (over 100%) what it started at. Over the total 25 year life of the bill, the equivalent flat rate would have to average ~37% higher than the starting rate of 0.26. And that's assuming your energy usage doesn't increase over time as it gets more expensive, which projections and history suggest will do just that. I'm not even an expert, but this is just basic math. I'm here to learn, so happy to be proven wrong (coherently).
this video got me thinking about the tesla loan I inherited with the purchase of my home a few years ago. Previous owner did a 4.4kw system that cost him a whopping 20k plus 20k interest on a 30 year loan. right now the loan balance is at 20k and I figure the best I can do is pay it off which I might be able to do by next year instead of paying tesla for the electricity and loan. I don't even understand how the monthly billing works.
I Learned a lot from your videos. I want my friends to go solar but I know they won't do a much research as me. So I was wondering if your could do a comparison of companies or which companies you recommend based off of what equipment they use.
All companies have the top tier and low tier equipment. Just give them pocket note to request high rated panels like mentioned in their video and a micro inverter:)
Hello Julian, i just got a conversation with Sunrun. the sale rep. got pretty upset after 1.5 hrs trying to convince us to get them but my husband keeps saying it's a rip off. Any way the sale rep is giving us 19 panels for $206 per mo. 25 years and 2.9 increase during the 25yrs. this is a lease. I started watching your videos to educade my self.🎓
2.9 per cent increase every year, btw. it keeps compounding. 2.9% of $209 1st year, then 2.9% of that sum, then 2.9% of the next sum..etc. etc. It adds up to almost doubling your bill halfway thru the lease. Sunrun is a scam.
Your husband is correct. I did research on Sun Run before they came out for a free quote. I called back so quickly and canceled. Then sent them all theses TH-cam video’s about them getting sued and BBB complaints. I now don’t trust any solar company.
@@B2stunt1 that's the problem. Solar is a great technology, at least for us in California and the southwest, but so many of the companies are so underhanded.
Dammm thats alot ... i cancel my sunrun contract before they came to check the measurements after learning more about lease. Mine was going to be 20 panels for $95 monthly for 20 years (they Never mention other financial options) straight to the program of lease. I'm going to buy them instead looking into sunpower or local company here in (Illinois)
@@thezfamily989 did you ever end up going with sunrun and buying them? I am looking to buy a home with a sunrun system installed in 2019 which has the 20 yr lease which is transferable but I’m wondering if I can buy it out during the lease.
Good video, but a few key points for discussion. Panasonic just closed down their solar panel division and Q-Cells have the largest manufacturing center in the western hemisphere, parent company is Korean not from China. Also, with dealer fees being so high (35%+ on top of the cash price is financed) this is putting a lot of people into a tough spot and basically taking their federal tax credit of 30% now. I know a lot of guys in the industry who used to think the same way about PPAs and preferred to sell ownership now pivot to the PPA model with SunRun bc of dealer fees being so high and SunRun offers a chance to buy out the system year 5 and claim the tax credit while avoiding dealer fees. Thoughts?
These 2 guys have very little actual ownership and leasing experience - i purchased my 19-panel PV system (6-kW) about 8-9 years ago for $39,000 with a 20-year warranty from a reputable local solar company, and i wish i had leased the system instead of purchasing them for the following reasons: 1) the 20-year or 25-year warranty means nothing if that solar company goes out of business, 2) if there are problems with the PV system, there is very little incentive for the solar company to come repair the system while the system is under warranty because they have zero incentives to fix the problem when you have paid them everything all up front in advance - if i had leased the system, i simply stop payment until they fix the problem, and 3) A leased system cost nothing upfront - the leasing company takes all the risk, 4) the solar technology has changed so fast, where my 19-panel PV system purchased less than 10 years ago is already obsolete where the newer system today are more energy efficent and costs less than half as much.
@@mikefa5891 so true, which is why personally I like offering the leased systems right now especially with lending fees being so predatory. Thanks for that feedback and insight, you’ve confirmed my theory on the industry at this moment in time. 🙌
I have several loan options with near no fee at all. While the savings when financing a system have diminished a little bit with the higher rates, comparing it to a PPA is still absurd and unless you are elderly, cannot take the tax credit, and do not plan on giving the property to a loved one, a PPA does not make sense for you.
There have been multiple solar manufacturers and installers that have gone out of business. There are have also been thousands of Lease/PPA customers that are the victims of lack of service too. It’s even more common. I get calls almost every day from people that are stuck with SunRun and want out and just feel like they’ve been screwed
Panasonic is Japanese! Qcells is Korean .... Also, Panasonic has not shut their solar business .. they simply have subcontracted out the manufacturing .. but still using Panasonic R&D ... JUst like Apple does! Panasonic did this to becaome more price competitive ..... too many china , and SE Asia companies were undercutting prices so much they had to reduce costs.... @@mikefa5891
Sunrun offers a pre-paid ppa. In short, if you do a standard 25yr ppa with them that pays around $300/mo it will add up to $90K. But if you pre-pay it, it is only $30K. Big savings there. Don't know if they offer it in your area.
The PPA fixed and escalated PPA cost the same over 25 years. I would argue an aged system is more of a liability when selling your home over a fully covered PPA. Equipment wise the PPA used top tier equipment. Papa's also use a power hub inverter with power optimizers, the same benefits with micro inverters but much more efficient and converting DC to AC power. These two folks are biased in their review. A PPA and a purchase are both viable options. It comes down to the preference of the home owner. Companies that offer PPAs are likely to be around for the long haul. Smaller companies who sell a system only, especially on price won't last long. Once they go out of business the homeowner becomes a solar orphan and their warranty went away along with the installer. Sunrun Vivint and Sunnova are the largest companies for a reason.
I spoke with SunRun at Costco and got this response from them on Linkedin. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations. I'm in Arizona and I dont think they approve of PPA, but aren't leases the same thing? Also, Dave Ramsey is against PPAs as well. If you can't pay off your system in 5 years then the cost benefit of it might be too much for most people.
@@myke4liberty @Myk I've got good news for you. The PPA is offered in AZ and no it is not a lease. You are not paying for panels but the power produced by the panels. The PPA is an alternative to your utility and therefore the homeowner is not responsible for the system. Also the PPA company insures the system, an added cost benefit. Dave Ramsey also does not understand the PPA and why would he? He is not a solar professional. A PPA requires zero investment from the homeowner. So "ROI" starts immediately. The true "ROI" for an owned system is nowhere near 5-10 years. Nobody takes into consideration the additional cost of ownership, financing charges, service costs, removal costs, insurance and cost of downtime. These are very real cost the people who have owned a system for 15 years plus understand. It's as popular residentially as it is commercially.
@@chrismink8157 Chris, I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings. The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9% I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year. I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs? Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
Thanks for the information and education for best micro inverter panel system. Now new law is coming for 2023, so tax credit returns to higher rate correct? Please do some posts on design of micro inverter panel system based on your electric service use. That would be helpful to see how to calculate system design capacity.
I had just realized that we are on PPA when we assumed the contract. The previous owners of the home we bought in 2021 had told us that one set (sunnova) is paid off and one set (sunrun) is still being "paid off" little did we know after signing the contracts, the sunrun set is for lease 25 years. My question is, IS THERE A WAY OUT?! Could I sue the previous owner for lying to us?
You must have 2 solar systems as Sunnova does not work with Sunrun. You should be able to buy the Sunrun system after a period of time depending on the state you are from. Your PPA is saving you a lot of money but you were not explained to properly. PPA is not bad because if you were on the normal utility you would be paying more trust me. Do not worry its not some evil scam the owners before you just couldn't or didn't want to buy the second solar system out right. Your Sunnova system was purchased if it is "payed off". The reason for having two systems is you always want to produce more power than you use with solar so that you will get paid from the utility for the extra energy. Then that will cover the energy you use at night from the utility because the sun is not out. So the previous owners likely bought their first system from a Sunnova solar dealer because Sunnova did not sell their own systems until very recently. They get other companies to install the system then Sunnova is responsible for financial things and customer service after. Sunrun is different they directly take care of their own customers and thei system. After a while your previous home owners ended up using more energy then they were supposed to or the first sales person did not build a large enough solar system for their energy needs. So your previous owners had Sunrun help them because they would have ended up getting another bill from the utility and no longer had $0.00 electric bills after the first system was payed off. So they put a second solar system up to replace the remaining utility bill with a much cheaper solar PPA. Not the most ideal situation but you are saving money.
Julian, question, we are very interested in going solar here in Texas. We are also Costco members and supposedly get better deals through them. I hear SunRun a lot. My good friend just got Solar via SunRun, va Costco, after watching your vid seies on solar, I am very skeptical on which company to use to install our system. Any ideas for companies here in Texas, that uses quality equipment, does not push PPAs, we are talking a 5kWh system only. In a review of our last 6 years of monthly energy costs we have never exceeded 4,000 kWh in a month. After making some changes, repairs of pool and A/C, quality service and equipment, our bill has dropped, to around 2500 - 3000 kWh during peak seasonal times. Any thoughts, suggestions? Thx. Great video series. Awesome.
@@chrismink8157, I did pulled numbers from my online account. Made changes here as far as thermostat settings, , and other things where our usage was on us. Thanks.
Great video, My thing is the solar company sunrun says they will not cover anything that goes wrong if I finance, Like the LG Chem battery will not be replaced after 10 years
So if you purchase and the solar manufacturer warranties expire on the equipment, you need to come out of pocket to fix or replace what needs to be fixed. This is called the cost of ownership, which is an expense.
You guys are generalizing all PPAs when a lot of companies are different. I’ve worked for Momentum and currently with Sunrun. We sell PPAs with microinverters not just central inverters…unless HO wants to add a battery like the LG chem that isn’t compatible with microinverters. The option of an escalator is also available if that’s the route a homeowner wanted to go. Also we primarily offer ownership options since majority of our retail leads are from Costco which does not offer PPAs. Ownership vs Third Party Ownership comes down to a customers long term plans with the home, what’s important to them about going solar and current job status (working or retired). It’s our job as a solar consultant to set proper expectations for them, help them understand the benefits of both sides so they can make a well informed decision on what’s best for them. Also given the current economic state we’re in, interest rate hikes, cost of materials and labor going up, dealer fees increasing…a lot more homeowners are beginning to lean toward PPAs. Especially since some companies offer the option to buy the system after yr 5. But again, there’s a time and place for them and definitely is not the best solution for every home. As educators and professionals in this space we need to have a more well rounded view and understanding of the industry. Each market is different and each utility company provides its own unique challenges to how they deal with solar.
There are a few privately owned PPAs that offer better equipment but it is very rare and SunRun has the majority of market share and so that’s who we focused on for this video
Solution - Never ever put solar panels on your roof! Instead look for much simpler and basic, less complex solutions to save energy - ie install quality dual pain energy efficient windows in your home (several a year if cant do all at once).....put extra insulation in attic.....Purchase (ideally with cash) a quality high seer (18+) 2 speed AC system from company highly rated in your area and with good warranty. I did all the above and my monthly electric bills are lower than most all of the same sized homes on my block, that went with Solar!
Now in Aug of 2023, Interest Rates for a loan option are much higher than when this video was made. With the PPA/LEASE option, it’s actually looking like a better option than a loan.
I have an updated video in the works because the environment has definitely changed. PPA’s can oftentimes give you a lower payment if you’re focussed on the now. But, as a 25 year agreement, the total debt associated with the system will always be more than financing. But to your point, yes the difference seems to be much less now with interest rates going up.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting NOT EVEN JUST LOW PAYMENTS. Protected and monitored equipment Ability to actually SELL the house without make or breaking the deal with loan equity BS
I got problems from sun run, i ask them to remove and re install later because i suppose to do a renovation but they like me to sign another agreement but I read those agreements they are revoking some of my rights that’s why I did not sign the agreement, I am willing to pay what ever the cost for removal and install, but they acting like they own the property as a homeowner I’m stocked
I was considering the PPA coz we consume about 19,535 kWh and annually our utility bills should be about $4200 while with the PPA gave us a fixed price of $260 monthly which was about $3120 to produce same 19,535 kWh. Bad idea?
PPA’s can save you money but buying the system can usually save you more and without the shenanigans. Call or text me and we’ll go over your situation. 760-473-5878
Nothing worth selling has ever escaped the trap of debt-finance "options". At the same time, nothing worth having has ever avoided being even more valuable when paid for with cash. Debt is the trap and cash is the means of avoiding that trap.
If you need someone good from Sunrun in Massachusetts let me know. All the Sunrun Sales people that I know will explain why buying the system is better and if you are a good sales person you know that PPA is for specific people. As a customer just make sure you ask the sales person about buying the system if you think you can do that. Also don't worry so much about getting your equipment fixed these cases where it takes ages are not as common as you might think with good large companies. Check that your solar company is not going to pawn you off to another company like Sunnova. Sunrun manages their own installs and continues to get better and faster at replacing equipment. PPA is great for a lot of people. Also every state is different with PPA. More people want solar than don't now and PPA can be great for people moving or that could not have afforded the extra cost of the sold solar system. The issues with people buying homes with PPA are more often because the real-estate people not explaining correctly. Yes it is true you will save more buying. Just weigh your options and your house will sell fine. Most people cannot actually claim all of the tax credit anyways.
The way I think about it is, buying is simply the best if you can. Leasing is better than doing nothing most of the time. It’s not the lease product that’s necessarily the issue, it’s how sales people sell it.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Exactly! That should be in your video said very simply as a final note. I don't appreciate people Max rating their customers. This video comes off very combative towards the PPA and can cause people to be very negative and then those that cannot afford to buy are stuck paying the high electric bill because they are afraid of a PPA now. They should be enlightened on the process so they understand that they can negotiate the price with their salesman its not just a price that the company gives. Though not everyone will be able to do this. I'm finding a lot of people here in the comments that simply see the PPA as this evil scam. If your salesman does not mention buying ask them about it. If they do not talk about buying ask the company if they do it. If you don't like your salesman get the company to send another one.
Happy to see more companies offering micros on PPA products. The companies servicing these systems are learning that going cheap in the beginning isn’t always the cheapest
I'm a ham radio operator, spurious Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) is an important consideration. Any thoughts on the most RFI quiet system? Are micro-inverters quiet?
This is excellent and should have known this a year ago. A Vivint (now Sunrun) smooth sales person basically took advantage of my mom (who was in her 80's). He was so smooth I too bought a PPA. Now one of the homes they had I am having trouble selling because the buyers don't want to take over the PPA. The prepayment that was quoted to me was $60K. Do I have no choice but to pay the prepayment or can I claim my mother was duped? The contract was unclear about the cost of prepayment. Now, the home is only 1500 sq feet and used 39 panels but my parent's other home is 2545 sq ft and only using 19 panels. Help!
@@AlessandroZane Dude it’s the buyer’s realtor that’s causing the issue, the word has gotten around that PPA can be an issue if we have to sell within the first 6 years.
This is a huge sticking point for a lot of sales…. It’s a big deal. It doesn’t just transfer. The buyers have to accept and take over the debt which is usually way more than what buying a system would cost them.
Shingle roofing last about 17 years in the south. What is the average cost removing and reinstalling panels for roofing? I’ve had high pressure salesmen tell me that only shingles not covered by panels can be replaced. Obviously never done any roofing. Don’t think you could convince your insurance company.
They are making it seem like PPA's are bad when they are the BEST option for power in the immediate for an ROI. Long term CASH is better if you stay in your home. If you buy Solar and then sell your home a few years later you wasted all that CASH for someone else to have cheaper energy.
That's not telling the whole story though because an owned system is going to raise the value of the property and with the tax credit, the owner needs to reap 74% of the total back in the sale of the house and will have gotten free power for the time in the house. If you buy a car for $10k, drive it for three years, and sell it for $10k, that car was essentially free which is what many are doing with their solar systems. A PPA can surely bring down monthly payments but doesnt set up the buyer for an easy out. I literally had a guy call me this morning who is buying a house that has 23 years years left of a sunburn PPA on it that totals over $45,000 when the cash price for a new system the same size is less than $15,000 after tax credits. So, now he's going to use it against the seller and now those poor people who thought they could easily pass It onto the new homeowner are going to be in for a surprise when they realize they should have just bought it 2 years ago.
I'm just signed up with Sunrun yesterday for this exact type of loan, 84/month with 2.9% annual increase. I have 2 days left to cancel. Anyway I can hop on a call with one of y'all about a potential alternate loan/finance strategy before then?
Thanks for your very informative and truth telling videos. I am looking into buying a system in AZ. Our current annual energy consumption is 20500. I've been quoted so many different sized systems and panels micros and solar edge. How much over should our system be? some want me to buy a system size smaller go under my current consumption some recommend going to 125% some to 150% bigger with lots of panels. How much overage should I realistically pay for? Are REC alpha panels good? what about titan solar panels? Leaning toward micro inverter. Thanks.
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I installed a 35kw solar system with 15kw of battery storage for $25k myself. I got a local company to assist with the engineering plans I obtained a permit from the city. I had an electronics background knew nothing about roof mounting. I used the K2 rail system was impressed how well designed and low cost it was. I can add more batteries , and daisy chain more inverters if I want. I use EG4 inverters and LifeP04 batter server racks they sell very good product. Nothing wrong with Growatt, or Schneider electric. I'm close to cutting the cord with the utility possibly this year been a lifelong goal of mine to watch them remove that meter I'll put in a cover no longer be dependent on a monopoly.
You need about 50-70kWh of battery storage to pair with a solar array of that size. How are you getting away with almost no storage? That’s awesome overall though!
@@Superiorsolarconsulting That's why I have to continue to use utility in the summer. Winter I can get away with lot less my KWH is much lower here in Phoenix. EG4-LL 30.72KWH rack is $10k would need 3 of them $30k in batteries to have 90kHW 100% off gird from signature solar. We are also looking at moving up to Show Low AZ. I will remove all the solar from the house install it up there on solar tracker that keep it aligned to the sun. Essentially all I will need is a well for water and I can live completely off grid self-sustaining on 37 acres. I can do whatever I want no city to bother me. My property would be miles from the main road. I have an electric powered ultralight called Aerolite EV-103 I'm building. I could fly it from the property land it at the airports or dirt roads. Small airports allow ultralights to land can borrow car from the FBO bring supplies back to my property. Always dreamed of having a home without being dependent on government. There are people here who have even bigger systems then I do heat their pool in the winter to 90F with 130k BTU heat pumps on solar.
Placing a lien on your property is the last thing you want to do. Once you buy a house, you need to learn that borrowing against your property will remove your rights to sell, or partially with a contract that a future buyer won’t need. I rather own electric bill than owning a contract that you cannot sell
I don’t prefer leases unless somebody is only worried about payment
This cat Julian is refeshing. Great to see a fellow solar sales pro that does so with integrity. If the bad apples out their realized you dont have to manipulate, hide or lie to sell solar, on the contrary - when you reveal all the truth transparently and tell the homeowner all - you gain credibility and you contrast greatly from all the others.
As consumers all these solar companies need oversight like utilities and to be regulated! If my electric company serviced the community this way, we'd all be in an uproar! But if I call my eletric company, they respond quite quickly! Great customer service!
I totally agree but the prices would skyrocket if contractors had to worry about a whole new aspect of running their companies. Consumers need to not just say yes to the guy who knocks on their door
SunRun told me I had to buy power from the equipment on my roof no matter if I used it or not. Most of the time I would be paying SunRun more for the power than I could sell it to the local utility for. They wanted a 25 year contract under which, to get out of it, I'd need to pay off all remaining payments. This video is very helpful.
Glad you saw through their not so great deal. If you’d like a good proposal for a purchase reach out. 760-473-5878
OMG How come no one else explains this? You guys are amazing!
This panel can put out close to 100 watts th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Bifacial panels are for ground mounts with a certain kind of tilt. Most panels are a few inches off a roof and bifacial modules would be a waste of money in that case
This video was wonderfully helpful to me. I was just at the beginning of digging into putting solar panels on my roof and making that investment. Looking around for information I could gain some knowledge from and found your video here. You literally saved me from making a very big mistake. Knowledge is power and you have given me a huge boost! Thank you.
Thanks so much. If you haven’t yet chosen a contractor, reach out and I can hopefully help you out. 760-473-5878
Did you install solar? How big is your house and how much did it cost/
Thank you, you've convinced me to not get solar panels installed on my home. I remember when; if you wanted satellite TV you had to install these very large receiving dishes on your property. Then skip a decade and the dishes were 1/100 the size for the same service at a fraction of the price. Now, I no longer need those small dishes as I have high bandwidth cable and can stream and enjoy internet access at speeds we never dreamed of back then. These solar panels on your roof are going to be obsolete well before the 25-year lifespan when you sell your house and no buyer is going to consider them a value, because the new technology will be far better and cheaper than the old stuff.
No you need to go solar. Best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago and the next is today. All newer, smaller panels will do is create electricity as well
Yeah, this makes no sense. You skipped 30 years of something you want for aesthetics. Meanwhile, you could be saving money.
Talk w/ Cody today. He was honest and upfront about my inquiry. So, I just Subscribed. Will give you THUMBS UP on all your videos. Definitely will refer you to my friends. Stay Safe Ruben Tiosejo
I know nothing about solar.
Yesterday, I came home and a sweet looking young woman (solar saleswoman) was sitting with my wife offering her to buy solar (PPA with an escalator). I've been burnt before. I always say I will research things before signing anything. She kept pushing and even offered to come back to the house 3 times, to show us things. Today, after watching a few TH-cam videos, I called her and told her "NO".
If you’d like a quote for a purchased system… (760) 473-5878
I’m not even in solar sales but I can definitely see these guys are just pushing there products. My neighbor actually purchased his panels and paid like 220 per month and literally right after he paid them off they STOPPED WORKING!!!! The company he bought them from said they are your panels your problem. I actually have sunrun ppa I pay 150$ my bill use to be 300$ “just like my neighbor” and 13 years later they still work they stopped producing sufficient power like 3 years ago and in one month they came out and replaced some damaged panels. They even covered the difference of the ppa price and the rest of my utility bill. So thanks but no thanks I’m happy with my ppa. I don’t want to spend 35k for a depreciating asset made of glass on my roof 👍🏼
The panels just stopping working after the system is paid for it doesn’t make sense. It sounds like the centralized inverter was never connected correctly or failed prematurely which is very common. A PPA will cost you much more over the lifetime and gives you pretty much no flexibility to get out a it early
@@Superiorsolarconsulting yeah it was explained to me, I’d much rather pay more and have a warranty then pay less and get screwed over.
Lots of thanks to you two. I was very close to completing an agreement with sunrun but something just don’t sit right in my gusts and you guys helps me make the final decision.
Years ago i looked into sunrun and all the others companies. They charged an arm and a leg but still doesn’t adds up. Im in process of getting 32 panels for 37k minus 11k credit and another 1k credit, making the system cost like 25k. I choose finance over anything else. Since I finance for 10yrs my bills will be higher but still lower than my peak grid used. The system is warranty for 25yrs, so after 10yrs ill start seeing profits. Would be best if i got cash but since I don’t I gotta finance. Anyway, the system offset like 186% of my used, so hopefully the excess would send over to the grid and cover my usage during peak months.
If you need a consultation please reach out. I have area experts all around the country. 760-473-5878. We can provide a great proposal, and hopefully earn your business.
@@tavuong666 which company? I got quoted 47k for 21 panels.. things are only $180 each 🙄
@@richg7264 check with ADT, unfortunately for my case that system isn’t sufficient
@@richg7264 check with ADT, unfortunately for my case that system isn’t sufficient
I was swindled into going PPA. IM 75 old. I was taken advantage of. I had to a new roof. An authorized person removed my panels. Im in a battle now because I refuse to have the panels put back on my house. I receive no benefit. I was taken advantage of.
Yikes. PPA’s can still save you money
Thank you for doing this. I have been searching for solar information and just keep bumping in the solar company’s sales pitch which just have felt like lies to me.
If you want our help let me know. 7604735878
2024 here! Great info guys! Thanks for sharing.
I'm so glad I found your channe!. I just met with a sunrun rep yesterday and was considering the leasing PPA option. I won't do that now. Thanks!
Great decision
Great video. I'm looking at changing careers from financial planning to solar sales & basically came to the same conclusion that PPA seems like a terrible idea for most ppl & I haven't even sold a system yet. Own the system, get equity, be energy independent, get the tax credit, recoup some cost when you sell vs ppa where you own nothing.
Thank you for all of your valuable info Julian. Not related to leasing panels, but I just got a quote down here in Florida for Solar. They offered me a 25 year loan to pay off the panels. I have a 2400 square foot ranch in sw florida. With a new roof, my quote was $92,000.00!! After further research and watching your videos, I realize they were trying to rob me. I then asked him how many KW he was providing, the answer is 14.43. The total cost of the solar without the roof was $72,000. This works out to over $5 per kilowatt. I wish you were in my area! maybe then it would make sense to go solar
it's actually more expensive in San Diego. Your $5ppw (not kW) factors in the financing/dealer costs. I don't think they were trying to rob you, very industry standard pricing actually.
In fact they were trying to rob you. Good thing you backed up that shhty deal
@@SPROS2024Contractors assume anyone who lives in southern California is wealthy because you own a 1-million-dollar home. Most solar installers make 3-4 times what it cost them to buy the parts. That way the owner gets paid $1000-1500 an hour wage. The homeowner makes $350-400k a year salary what does he care if it cost 70-100k over 20 years.
Um....yeah you were talking to dishonest people. Did they not recommend to you a ground mount since you have so much property? Ground mount solar is far more efficient and you don't need to get a new roof to have one installed.
You need to go ground mount.
Great. I almost signed up with Sunnova on a PPA plan for 65k after 25 years, but during the signing process I noticed they had the wrong address for my house so I still had 4 boxes to digitally sign so we had to stop it. I told them I could not start over today and would call them in a few days. They had to call and cancel the process because of the wrong address. I hope I was not scammed.
Let’s see what a good deal looks like for you. A PPA can make sense in certain circumstances. 760-473-5878
Julian, thank you so much for your videos. Your’s is the first channel I’ve found that really counters every point the solar sales guys feed you in a very understandable way. There I was minding my own business in Home Depot the other day when someone from Sunrun hijacked me in the lighting aisle. Gave the whole pitch, had another sales person come to my house, met with a second large solar company in the northeast for due diligence and was pretty much ready to pull the trigger. However, something didn’t feel right. It felt like there was no downside to what they were saying. Through talking with friends, realtors and getting real world perspective plus Googling around/finding your channel, I’ve been saved from a potential huge mistake signing up for a PPA. Now I’m thinking through purchasing my own system and learning lots from you. Thank you for this content!
Hey Robert. Thanks so much for the nice comment. Where are you located? I may be able to help you
I am a SunRun rep and I always tell my prospective clients the pros and cons of both because at the end of the day, I’m trying to help people save money and help the environment. Usually the ppa is a better alternative for people who don’t have the credit to qualify for a loan but still want to save some money vs sticking with the traditional electric company. If you have the means, buying your system cash is the most profitable way to go solar but most people don’t have that kind of money to invest and the ones that do are the ones that constantly tell me that they’re not interested in Solar because they can afford to pay $400+ on their electric bill. Anyways our panels are the 2nd most efficient on the market and if you’re thinking of buying, I guarantee you we can give you the best rate.
Sun Run is a piece of shiiiit solar company. If sunrun is a coming, look at the sun....and run
@@michaelmacias8778 Sun run is a piece of shiiiit company. If ur a rep with honest intentions, find a different company to work at. Sunrun reps: if ur mouth is moving, ur lying.
@@michaelmacias8778 The best rate? Do tell. The SunRun Rep at Costco told me the mark up was huge on their systems. He made 14k for one month and he was just a Solar Ambassador, not even the guy going out to the house, aka the expert. So he gets his cut too, and the contractors that put it in get their cut and lets not forget about your COE, she wants her cut as well. Too many finger's in the pie. I'm not sure what your pulling in, but they have to use equipment that it's as good. It's like buying a Dell, there is good, better, and best parts. Gamers always want the best, that's why most of them learned how to make their own computers.
Is there any way I can offer a PPA with favorable terms?
For example, can I as a solar rep be able to offer a PPA that can:
1. Their monthly bill gets a little bit lower every month.
2. Have an option where they can save up and buy the solar panels in a lump sum for the price I would have sold them to you in cash today.
3. no escalator.
4. Offer the same panel/inverter combo I recommended had we gone with cash.
5. Don't pay unless the panels are actually working.
Last question: is the ppa a liability for selling your house if it doesn't have an escalator?
Thanks for making videos like this. I think you have the best content about these things on youtube.
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I’m a solar consultant and I sell all three options, PPA, loan, or lease. I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. It all comes down to each homeowner and their situation. I think these guys are trying to sell you on purchasing your system, in reality, whatever you’re trying to sell you will make it sound good. These guys are just two Salesmen doing their job trying to sell the purchase option.
Correct
Exactly, I love the "hey everyones a liar, except me" approach xD
This guy is just pulling back the curtain on these dirty snakes. U mentioned that these men are salesmen selling their product, well so are u.
Couldnta said it better myself. Well said. These cons aren’t even true in all areas.
I honestly disagree man, what they are spitting is facts and they aren’t selling anything here except what they believe to be the best knowledge about these systems. Your a salesman? Hard to believe. Did they ask for a close in this video? No. Not selling anything physical for money (which is what I’m assuming your gripes are about)
I bought the PPA from sunrun three years ago at a fixed rate in Riverside County it was $165 payment for 25 years with a zero escalator I sold that house about six months ago the homeowner was glad it was very open to just taking over the payment of 165 for the balance of the term they were very happy to do Edison would have cost him 265.00 month
And going up time of us.40 to 60 cents 2 to 9 pm time of use
PPA great
You definitely were lucky. A lot of times the PPA causes a huge issue when selling the house and the seller is forced to pay it off before the property is sold because the buyer looks at the math and realizes that if they take over 22 more years of your payments that’s going to add up to 2 to 3 times what a solar system will just cost. Therefore to be honest, the buyer of your house got ripped off and didn’t really understand what was going on. You got lucky though so ultimately congratulations I’m not getting trapped
How did you negotiate the zero escalator
Would also be interested in hearing the answer to that! I'm speaking to Sunrun at the present time and 2.9% was presented to me. I ran the numbers. My $131/mo cost is $260 in year 25. Of course inflation and Edisons price will also rise so it's difficult to know for sure if that's a good deal or not. I'm starting to think more about purchase rather than PPA.
@@jgootz8329 you don’t need to negotiate…0% escalator should always be available, especially with Sunrun. However you’ll start with a higher cents per kWh rate then with the escalator.
I think this video is a bit old now. I have a PPA here in Texas and my Sunrun contract states maintenance is all done by SunRun and Zero Rate Escalator. I am not allowed to touch the system. I got Sylfab panels with 2 Tesla powerwalls. I immediately see my savings Day 1 rather than wait after I paid off my loan. Your 35K is not accurate if you are paying monthly so the end-cost is much higher than that unless its interest free for some reason, plus the maintenance down the road for example if you need to add more panels. If my equipment is not producing the promised agreement they will either add or replace the panels in the long run whereas in a loan you will be needing to spend more money. Now in Texas we have the ability to do Free nights and weekends as to where the Powerwalls will be charged every night and use solar during the day. I know many states dont have this option but for some people the PPA is a much better option than buying at a much higher interest today. Also, nobody values old technology as it gets outdated so no asset there guys.
So glad I live in a municipality that will not buy back power. As an electrician, I'm involved in setting up large commercial solar sites...the only ones that make sense. Commercial arrays are around 1200 volts per circuit. Get ready to replace your roof when you sell your house, and the solar panels are a negative selling point. Could easily be $20,000 to match shingles on the whole roof. Ground mount arrays when they are the only option make far more sense, or carport arrays separate from the house. The cheaper systems are installed by less experience employees and cheap materials/panels. Keeping the panels off your house is safer when they catch fire because connections heated up due to bad installs.
None of this makes sense at all. Solar increases home value and extends roof life. Bad contractors are a problem, not solar
Holy shit. What an awesome and clear explanation. I was on the phone with Sunrun today. He made the PPA option sound so good, I thought it came with a happy ending. But I coyldn't get past the fact I am installing solar and incurring a new power bill. The entire idea is to get OFF the grid. I will probably hire them to intall the system for the 21,000 cash price and just add my Zendure Powerbase V as a batter backup. Pay cash and walk away from them.
You still pay a bill if you buy solar you just either pay for the loan, full amount in cash after install or have the company come and install for free and pay slightly more. Its not a scam just an alternate option to buying solar. The idea of getting off the grid is not possible in most states. Getting all of your power from solar and having your solar system pay the difference of what you use from the Utility at night depends on your state, roof size, and electric usage.
I appreciate you educating ppl on this topic. Don't pay too much attention to the negativity in the comment section because you don't know their reasoning. A smart person can see your transparency and honesty. Question, once you pay off the loan (system) what residual bill, if any, do you have left?
None
Nope. Just whatever the utility company charges you for the connection fee or you start using more than the system provides
Hi Julian, thanks for the great video. I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings.
The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9%
I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year.
I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs?
Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
As someone just looking into buying a large system for my home and diving deep into this rabbit hole trying to understand purchase - almost feeling like I should sell solar so I can help others figure things out honestly - I would say, you should sell something you can stand behind - today I was given all three options by one company they were honest and upfront about which was the better deal -and it was my choice. For some people that cannot afford the purchase cash or through a loan, then those low interest loans or PPA may benefit and be only option but I appreciate knowing all the facts and then making an educated decision. Going back to you - see what the company says when you want to offer all the options, if not you may need to move to. company that better aligns with your values, in the end it will be better for you I believe.
worst, they make you sign an agreement that you may not be aware making Sunrun being the Owner and not you being the Owner when you pay that lump sum up front. Paying up front may be fine for most situations when you don't have the cash or ability to obtain a low interest loan or loan out right. But you still left with a slight concern what if Sunrun goes bankrupt one of these days. when that happen, not only possible you are will not continue to receive the promise of warranty and guanratee, you have to wond will someone show up and going to come and rip the system off your roof top.
@@johnchan2655 good point. your guarantee is only good as long as the company is around. Also.... it is a public stock company.... Wonder what their cash flow and reserves look like? I've not had a chance to look yet.
Hi Robert, I’m a sales rep for sunrun as well but in California. If your selling .14 a kwh, then it would be easier to pitch that then taking on a loan for 30-50k just to save 20-30 dollars a month on their bill..just wouldn’t make sense to take on that debt, in stead the PPA becomes a better option/ alternative to get their power at a cheaper rate, just like a cheaper gas station, cheaper grocery store etc etc. I’m in California where it’s at .38 a kWh, summer bills are $300-600+ in the summer and we’re selling at .15-.24 cents a kwh. Hope your still with us. Best of luck!
@@tonysilva7993 not to mention, batteries are essential in CA now - and batteries are the most expensive piece of equipment in solar.
Sunrun's PPA gives you a 25-year warranty on ALL equipment, and you do not have to take on debt to reduce your electric costs.
At the end of the day, these two dudes are still selling, and want to diminish Sunrun's credibility. Not very transparent, eh?
The federal solar tax credit is back up to 30% with the signing of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. And it’s effective through 2032.
Huh!?!? This video is so misleading.
Why would any of those companies you guys are talking down on would offer a program such as a PPA to rip the customer off? What I was able to grasp from this video is that a company that offers you a PPA will cover the customer on maintenance, monitoring their system for 25 years and will offer a no up front cost is scamming you? Wth?!
I also noticed you didn’t mention that if the system doesn’t produce the kilowatt they said it would they reimburse you at the end of the year.
Why would a company like the one you mentioned would invent such a program to “Scam” people?
I actually did a bit more research and I found out that Sunrun also offers a 10 year warranty on your roof after installation no penetration or leak. They also give customers 2 insurances of $1M each.
You said that the companies offer crappy solar panels that are outdated and the maintenance is crap. Why would any company install such system if they have to be out often repairing, maintaining, or switching out to new panels all the time for the entirety of the 25 year agreement? That sounds very counterproductive to me.
When doing my research I found that the PPA program is not for everyone. If you have the capital to buy your system out right great! Then I guess you can save more. Some families can’t afford a $8K system. You guys said it yourself that going with the PPA at 2.9% is still a lot more cheaper then going with the utility company. You actually put it on a graph! You guys confused me there haha! So you’re talking down on a program that is still cheaper than staying with my utility company? I don’t see how these companies are hiding information like you said they are.
If I’d be in your shoes I’d try not to sound like sales guys that probably got fired from one of these companies and now making videos to talk down on them or their programs. I would rather make videos showing your viewers what options they have instead of trying to make other companies look bad and misleading people. Very unprofessional fellas. If you would have given me that presentation in my house you’d immediately be tossed out. It doesn’t look good when you have to talk negatively about other companies and their programs in order for you to convince people to buy from you. That actually sounds more like a “scam” to me. Get your stuff together guys.
you so totally work for Sunrun hahahahahaha
@@codywagner4992I so totally do research is more accurate.
PPA’s are the equivalent of getting a loan from the corner loan shark and you still don’t own it. PPA’s are a way for SunRun to make tons of money end of story. It’s not evil and sometimes a PPA can overall make sense but the point of this video is to make people aware that the whole pitch from SunRun about why you shouldn’t buy it is purely so they can make more money. A lot of people get talked into doing a PPA when buying the system would have been a better move for them. Unfortunately salespeople oftentimes are only thinking about commissions.
I caught sunrun. They wanted to install tesla panels for me. Zero down plus a 2000 Costco gift card and charge extra 30k. I went with sunpower and straight from the company finance at .049% 36 panels that will cost 49k with the tax credit. I don’t mind paying expensive because I know Sunpower is quality
You better look at your contract with sunrun again. Stay away from Sunrun.
I had an appointment with sunrun. We went over the numbers and the financing and I swear to God, I was laughing at the sales rep by the time she was explaining all the numbers. Sunrun wanted $62,000 for a system that probably cost $12,000.
This year in 2023, you can get a 30% rebate on your solar installation. But Sunrun legally steals your rebate. They raise the price of the solar installation 30%. So they walk away with your rebate and stick you with a lease contract for 24 years. You think the interest rate is OK, but no it’s not. Because they add another interest rate to the payment every year. The payment goes up 2.99% every year. After 10 years you’re paying 45% more.
Let’s talk about their tesla battery. They want $18,000 for one Tesla battery. I own a Tesla three. The battery on that car is probably stores 3 to 4 times the electricity of their house battery. And it cost $16,000 with labor to replace my car battery. They are completely ripping off the public with their installation. And they’re lease payment that goes up 2.99% every year for 24 years.
After 10 years, your solar panels will not be able to pay for the entire electricity bill. The cost of electricity will go up. Your solar panels will not be able to produce enough electricity. So you’ll end up with an electric bill and solar power bill that’s going up every single year 2.99%.
Then there is selling your house. What sunrun does is they renegotiate the contract with a new buyer and they want even more money for the panels than seller paid. They don’t care if you sell the house as long as they get paid.
One woman paid $60,000 to have the sunrun install Solar panels. When she went to sell the house, the new buyer was told they need to pay $70,000 for the system. She had seven offers on the house. Everyone was rejected after the solar was disclosed.
Stay away from the Sunrun solar
How’s that working out for you now? 😂 There’s a reason Sunrun’s in business and sun power isn’t
Don't sign contracts, you'll pay the electric company too (double bills), tax credit to keep the same payment isn't guaranteed so your payments will go up later for sure.
Great information, gentlemen. Much appreciated.
Of course. Thank you
Great to see a new video post. Keep them coming 😀
Thanks for the simple explanation!
You're welcome!
Excellent work gentlemen! In MD, we educate homeowners on the same thing!
Great info my god thanks I was jus considering Solor
Of course. Reach out for a proposal. 760-473-5878
I agree with buying the system outright. You definitely save a lot more. Financing now with where interest rates are now is super expensive.
Yes and this video is 3 years old. Something to note
Julian, I have had 7 different solar companies come into my home. The last one, I was about to sign, but when I went in to a room with my wife to discuss and came back out, they changed the amount by $5 dollars. Not a big deal, but they lost their integrity right then and there. I kicked them out of my house and that was the last time I ever invited solar anyone into my home.
So you spent dozens of hours working on installing solar, and you let a simple mistake ruin your plan? What will you do now? Forego solar install altogether?
@@Andy-vt7sl help me.
Semper Fi bro I’ll help you out.
They all seem like scams. $5 😂
Wasted alot of people's time...makes sense your a government worker
Thank you for breaking this down. I had a Sun Run guy come to my house proposing a PPA. It sounded great but I had not done any research. Your video breaks it down and saved me hours of research.
My mom livid in SD and here electric bill was over 400 a month, rarely used the AC, just lights, TV and fridge.
Yes sdge is one of the most expensive utilities in the country. Solar makes more sense here than almost anywhere else. She should look at a custom proposal fir her home. I can help if you’d like. 7604735878
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Yeah she moved to a new home in Temecula, she was shocked with her new light bill was 70 dollars.
The whole point of going solar is to own your own power and save hundreds of thousands in the long run. There are still beneficial owning option even when you’re retired,on fixed income. I’ve done it. Switching from renting vs owning is always better then renting to renting. If you disagree can you give me an example of a time where the consumer made out better than the producer?
JULIAN THE SOLAR CLOWN
Thanks for the comment. Boosts the algo 😘
Its sad to see all of the leases and PPAs being pushed today. Great job!
For real… totally agreed
We are currently getting estimates to go solar.. we have a 20 acre home and much sunlight in Florida.. ADT TOMORROW, appointment.. I’m just getting prices.. I need a good company👍🏻 thanks
If you haven’t signed yet, call or text me 760-473-5878
Thanks for this - super helpful info, guys!
The information here is not accurate. PPAs are simple to transfer to the next owner and they are a very good option for people who are planning on selling their home in a few years and for rental properties or non-owner-occupied houses. These guys are bashing PPAs because they likely don’t have that option in their sales portfolio.
I have the ability to sell PPAs... If the buyer is okay with transferring the PPA into their name then great. But, I have had so many conversations over the years with people who were set up in a terrible situation where they had to pay the whole PPA off during the sale and it ended up costing thousands. That's very common if you speak to real estate agents.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Your video throws a blanket over all utilities. In California especially in PG&E territory, buyers inherit agreements that are deeply discounted compared to what they would be paying in PG&E kilowatt rates.
The only “problems” that we see are very rare with un educated real estate agents who are behind the times.
Excuse me I have a PPA, and I can't even get them to come out and service my solar panels. I had so much water damage to my roof that I had to pay them to remove the panels, so I could pay to get my roof repaired. On top of the monies I am already paying them! No customer service at all! Months to get anyone to respond!
Would some of this hold up in the high rate environment we are in today? I haven't went out to a bank to see what a loan would be, but helocs are around 5.5% right now. I got confronted by Sunrun at Costco and they presented a plan, a PPA I presume, where I'd pay $113/mo for 12 months, and if I keep the $10,000 credit from the government, it would go up to a $165/mo payment or so for 25 years. So that's roughly $40,000 of costs if you account for the credit. I think their rate is 2.99%, too. $33,000 loan amount.
I'm very interested in your argument here, but I just don't see how the numbers add up where PPA is much worse. You were throwing around $100,000 costs and such, which probably would be the amount if you got a bank loan out.
One thing I did notice was that my plan did say 1 solar edge inverter and Hanwha qcell panels, so there's the mediocre panels and the non microinverter you do warn about. I see that issue before me. I'm just trying to make a decision. Right now, with this plan, it seems I'd get $11,000 cash up front ($10k from the fed and $1k from costco) but, until I get a pool/increase my energy costs more, I'd lose $30/mo since my utility company charges $30+ "customer fee" every month regardless if all my electric needs are provided by the panels. Thanks for your video.
If someone pitched you a deal where you were the one getting the tax credit, then you were actually purchasing the system and it was not a PPA. Just a financed deal. When you do a PPA there is no official interest-rate because you are technically agreeing to buy kilowatt hours for a certain price. If you extrapolate out 25 years of payments and the fact that getting out of it early requires a lump sum of all of the payments if buyers don’t want it transferred, you’re signing an extremely expensive and inflexible plan. Buying the system with a non fee or smaller fee with a higher rate allows for the exit to be much less expensive and allows for tons of home value and equity to built at the same time, helping the sellers leave with more money in their pocket. Even in the best case for the sellers doing a PPA, they will just be able to transfer the debt and no home value increase will occur. It’s really the same concept as buying versus renting your home. Do you want to build equity yourself or pay someone else for a service?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting You assume all buyers have tax liabilities each year. That’s not the case. The credit is useless if you don’t owe taxes.
exactly what I was looking for. Had a sunrun salesman try to convince me of all the "good things" for a PPA and everything felt like there was something hiding there and sure enough, it was all of this. Any chance there's an updated version of this info with any changes over the year or are things mostly the same still in 2023?
To me knowledge it’s the same as it’s always been. If you’d like a quote text me. 760-473-5878
They got me with the PPA loan dammit!! In 2021 I have saved alot on myb2 family I have 30 panels but listening to this I feel like I got robbed but I am saving a lot
@@byranttaylor1535you didn’t make a bad decision. The ppa will still save you money month to month vs the utility. If you are in California the ppa is the only and best way after nem 3.0 buying a system was only profitable bc the utility was matching the price per kw you were sending back to the grid. Plus with a ppa you don’t have to worry about replacing the panels after 2 decades. Everyone who bought a system outright is going to be stuck with the broken or degenerating panels.
Hi Julian. Thank you for all your informative videos. Have you heard of Project Solar? If so, what do you think of them?
Sunrun installed a defective roof on my house. I chased them with emails and phone calls for two years, now they say they won't finish repairing it. Sunrun installed the roof with undocumented workers. There is damage over the entirety of the roof. One roofer quoted me over $22,000 to repair the roof not including water damage in the walls.
You spoke about people using bad equipment. I would like to know what companies you use and what kind of panels your using. Also what contractors you prefer. SunRun is moving into the Tucson Area. I'm not sure if they are still doing the PPA in our area. I would like to find out. Lynn Jurich used to he a hedge fund person which means that she's all about getting residual income for herself.
Hit the nail on the head with your statement. I prefer Enphase micro-inverters vs the SolarEdge system Sunrun uses. Also, Sunrun is using generally cheaper panels. I like the super efficient panels with lower degradation rates
@@Superiorsolarconsulting watching you video now on panel comparison.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So I asked at Costco and on their page and this is what they said. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations.
I don't think PPA's are available in Arizona but isn't a lease pretty much the same thing?
@@myke4liberty lease and PPA are essentially the same thing. A PPA is an agreement to buy power at a certain rate for a set amount of time and a lease is paying for the equipment for a set amount of time. It’s the same concept of getting solar without owning it but they are more similar than different and I would avoid both.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So you are seeing the guys comments below right? You company might be around for a while but other people may not be able to get the servicing that they need when an inverter goes. I have a friend that is an Engineer on an Airforce base at Davis Monthin you should be able to see photos of what they are using there. He says that Inverters are not needed on every panel and only drives up the cost. We also have a huge RV community here and with StarLink people are now going grid. From what I have seen and heard they just look at your bill for the past year, because the power companies don't want to send you a check for generating power, but lets say someone wants to get an EV in the future, a current solar system would not be enough to charge one of those cars. Your thoughts please?
Good video! Our system is working great. Thanks!
Which system?
Very well and honest explanation, Thanks!
This has been informative. Thank you both. I live in San Diego and if we go solar we will buy a system outright.
I’ll build you a quote. Text/call me 7604735878
Really appreciate this video. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.
Thanks!
Julian, I am active duty in San Diego and just had a consultation with sun run today and they really pushed hard on the PPA. I own a new build in Otay ranch and plan on moving out in the next year but keeping the property as a long term rental property. I plan on keeping the property for passive income for 20+ years. Basically I’m asking if buying is the way to go or the PPA is the way to go. They offered my monthly payment at a fixed rate of $93 a month which would come out to about $27,900. So if I were to buy what panels/setup would you recommend that would end up close to that price? There will be 10 panels.
If you bought a 10 panel system outright you would probably be around $13k gross and then a little under $10,000 net after the tax credit. You can give me a call or text me at (760) 473-5878 and I can help you figure out a better financing lan than doing a 25 year PPA
Dude this whole video is trash. The escalator is on the rate not the whole bill!!! So if your rate is 26 cents.............
Go ahead and do the math on 2.9 every year for 25 years
@@matthewpriest5329 Math says your rate more than doubles. Sounds pretty bad, but I am not an expert. So, there's a bill even aside from the rate in a PPA?
@@Cyrribrae how could it double even if it was for the total in a year? 😂 You guys are hilarious
@@matthewpriest5329 Because numerically literate people can do the math.. By the end of the 25 years, your rate in that last year will be more than double (over 100%) what it started at. Over the total 25 year life of the bill, the equivalent flat rate would have to average ~37% higher than the starting rate of 0.26.
And that's assuming your energy usage doesn't increase over time as it gets more expensive, which projections and history suggest will do just that.
I'm not even an expert, but this is just basic math. I'm here to learn, so happy to be proven wrong (coherently).
this video got me thinking about the tesla loan I inherited with the purchase of my home a few years ago. Previous owner did a 4.4kw system that cost him a whopping 20k plus 20k interest on a 30 year loan. right now the loan balance is at 20k and I figure the best I can do is pay it off which I might be able to do by next year instead of paying tesla for the electricity and loan. I don't even understand how the monthly billing works.
I Learned a lot from your videos. I want my friends to go solar but I know they won't do a much research as me. So I was wondering if your could do a comparison of companies or which companies you recommend based off of what equipment they use.
I'm in texas and went with freedom solar because of the sun power panels.
All companies have the top tier and low tier equipment. Just give them pocket note to request high rated panels like mentioned in their video and a micro inverter:)
Hello Julian, i just got a conversation with Sunrun. the sale rep. got pretty upset after 1.5 hrs trying to convince us to get them but my husband keeps saying it's a rip off. Any way the sale rep is giving us 19 panels for $206 per mo. 25 years and 2.9 increase during the 25yrs. this is a lease. I started watching your videos to educade my self.🎓
2.9 per cent increase every year, btw. it keeps compounding. 2.9% of $209 1st year, then 2.9% of that sum, then 2.9% of the next sum..etc. etc. It adds up to almost doubling your bill halfway thru the lease. Sunrun is a scam.
Your husband is correct. I did research on Sun Run before they came out for a free quote. I called back so quickly and canceled. Then sent them all theses TH-cam video’s about them getting sued and BBB complaints. I now don’t trust any solar company.
@@B2stunt1 that's the problem. Solar is a great technology, at least for us in California and the southwest, but so many of the companies are so underhanded.
Dammm thats alot ... i cancel my sunrun contract before they came to check the measurements after learning more about lease. Mine was going to be 20 panels for $95 monthly for 20 years (they Never mention other financial options) straight to the program of lease. I'm going to buy them instead looking into sunpower or local company here in (Illinois)
@@thezfamily989 did you ever end up going with sunrun and buying them? I am looking to buy a home with a sunrun system installed in 2019 which has the 20 yr lease which is transferable but I’m wondering if I can buy it out during the lease.
Good video, but a few key points for discussion. Panasonic just closed down their solar panel division and Q-Cells have the largest manufacturing center in the western hemisphere, parent company is Korean not from China. Also, with dealer fees being so high (35%+ on top of the cash price is financed) this is putting a lot of people into a tough spot and basically taking their federal tax credit of 30% now.
I know a lot of guys in the industry who used to think the same way about PPAs and preferred to sell ownership now pivot to the PPA model with SunRun bc of dealer fees being so high and SunRun offers a chance to buy out the system year 5 and claim the tax credit while avoiding dealer fees.
Thoughts?
These 2 guys have very little actual ownership and leasing experience - i purchased my 19-panel PV system (6-kW) about 8-9 years ago for $39,000 with a 20-year warranty from a reputable local solar company, and i wish i had leased the system instead of purchasing them for the following reasons: 1) the 20-year or 25-year warranty means nothing if that solar company goes out of business, 2) if there are problems with the PV system, there is very little incentive for the solar company to come repair the system while the system is under warranty because they have zero incentives to fix the problem when you have paid them everything all up front in advance - if i had leased the system, i simply stop payment until they fix the problem, and 3) A leased system cost nothing upfront - the leasing company takes all the risk, 4) the solar technology has changed so fast, where my 19-panel PV system purchased less than 10 years ago is already obsolete where the newer system today are more energy efficent and costs less than half as much.
@@mikefa5891 so true, which is why personally I like offering the leased systems right now especially with lending fees being so predatory. Thanks for that feedback and insight, you’ve confirmed my theory on the industry at this moment in time. 🙌
I have several loan options with near no fee at all. While the savings when financing a system have diminished a little bit with the higher rates, comparing it to a PPA is still absurd and unless you are elderly, cannot take the tax credit, and do not plan on giving the property to a loved one, a PPA does not make sense for you.
There have been multiple solar manufacturers and installers that have gone out of business. There are have also been thousands of Lease/PPA customers that are the victims of lack of service too. It’s even more common. I get calls almost every day from people that are stuck with SunRun and want out and just feel like they’ve been screwed
Panasonic is Japanese! Qcells is Korean .... Also, Panasonic has not shut their solar business .. they simply have subcontracted out the manufacturing .. but still using Panasonic R&D ... JUst like Apple does! Panasonic did this to becaome more price competitive ..... too many china , and SE Asia companies were undercutting prices so much they had to reduce costs.... @@mikefa5891
Sunrun offers a pre-paid ppa. In short, if you do a standard 25yr ppa with them that pays around $300/mo it will add up to $90K. But if you pre-pay it, it is only $30K. Big savings there. Don't know if they offer it in your area.
Thanks for being the voice of clarity on this. Much appreciated
What do you mean by higher quality equipment? Where does a person buy to get better equipment?
Thanks for the useful information, very useful for me, Thanks again
Boy, I was really thinking about leasing. Not sure if that is the same as a PPA, but scared my enough to just say no. Thanks
I can set you up if you’d like. 760-473-5878
Great info as always.
Thank you 👍
Very well done, thank you!!!!
The PPA fixed and escalated PPA cost the same over 25 years. I would argue an aged system is more of a liability when selling your home over a fully covered PPA. Equipment wise the PPA used top tier equipment. Papa's also use a power hub inverter with power optimizers, the same benefits with micro inverters but much more efficient and converting DC to AC power. These two folks are biased in their review. A PPA and a purchase are both viable options. It comes down to the preference of the home owner. Companies that offer PPAs are likely to be around for the long haul. Smaller companies who sell a system only, especially on price won't last long. Once they go out of business the homeowner becomes a solar orphan and their warranty went away along with the installer. Sunrun Vivint and Sunnova are the largest companies for a reason.
I spoke with SunRun at Costco and got this response from them on Linkedin. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations. I'm in Arizona and I dont think they approve of PPA, but aren't leases the same thing? Also, Dave Ramsey is against PPAs as well. If you can't pay off your system in 5 years then the cost benefit of it might be too much for most people.
@@myke4liberty @Myk I've got good news for you. The PPA is offered in AZ and no it is not a lease. You are not paying for panels but the power produced by the panels. The PPA is an alternative to your utility and therefore the homeowner is not responsible for the system. Also the PPA company insures the system, an added cost benefit. Dave Ramsey also does not understand the PPA and why would he? He is not a solar professional. A PPA requires zero investment from the homeowner. So "ROI" starts immediately. The true "ROI" for an owned system is nowhere near 5-10 years. Nobody takes into consideration the additional cost of ownership, financing charges, service costs, removal costs, insurance and cost of downtime. These are very real cost the people who have owned a system for 15 years plus understand. It's as popular residentially as it is commercially.
@@chrismink8157 Chris, I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings.
The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9%
I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year.
I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs?
Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
@@RobertoHernandez-uy3gs Move to California I know direct reps don’t work for a dealer company work DIRECTLY for Sunrun
Thanks for the information and education for best micro inverter panel system. Now new law is coming for 2023, so tax credit returns to higher rate correct?
Please do some posts on design of micro inverter panel system based on your electric service use. That would be helpful to see how to calculate system design capacity.
I had just realized that we are on PPA when we assumed the contract. The previous owners of the home we bought in 2021 had told us that one set (sunnova) is paid off and one set (sunrun) is still being "paid off" little did we know after signing the contracts, the sunrun set is for lease 25 years.
My question is, IS THERE A WAY OUT?! Could I sue the previous owner for lying to us?
Home sales require property disclosures so if they did not disclose what you were taking over then possibly.
You must have 2 solar systems as Sunnova does not work with Sunrun. You should be able to buy the Sunrun system after a period of time depending on the state you are from. Your PPA is saving you a lot of money but you were not explained to properly. PPA is not bad because if you were on the normal utility you would be paying more trust me. Do not worry its not some evil scam the owners before you just couldn't or didn't want to buy the second solar system out right. Your Sunnova system was purchased if it is "payed off". The reason for having two systems is you always want to produce more power than you use with solar so that you will get paid from the utility for the extra energy. Then that will cover the energy you use at night from the utility because the sun is not out. So the previous owners likely bought their first system from a Sunnova solar dealer because Sunnova did not sell their own systems until very recently. They get other companies to install the system then Sunnova is responsible for financial things and customer service after. Sunrun is different they directly take care of their own customers and thei system. After a while your previous home owners ended up using more energy then they were supposed to or the first sales person did not build a large enough solar system for their energy needs. So your previous owners had Sunrun help them because they would have ended up getting another bill from the utility and no longer had $0.00 electric bills after the first system was payed off. So they put a second solar system up to replace the remaining utility bill with a much cheaper solar PPA. Not the most ideal situation but you are saving money.
What they don’t mention is that there is a PPA with a 0.0% escalator, which means the monthly payments never increase year after year.
Check my newest video on leases
thank you, I was about to get PPA, not anymore!
Glad you found the info valuable
Julian, question, we are very interested in going solar here in Texas. We are also Costco members and supposedly get better deals through them. I hear SunRun a lot. My good friend just got Solar via SunRun, va Costco, after watching your vid seies on solar, I am very skeptical on which company to use to install our system. Any ideas for companies here in Texas, that uses quality equipment, does not push PPAs, we are talking a 5kWh system only. In a review of our last 6 years of monthly energy costs we have never exceeded 4,000 kWh in a month. After making some changes, repairs of pool and A/C, quality service and equipment, our bill has dropped, to around 2500 - 3000 kWh during peak seasonal times. Any thoughts, suggestions? Thx. Great video series. Awesome.
Yes give me a call 7604735878 if you haven’t made a decision yet
Do not do any business with Sunrun. They pay Costco to use/rent the space in their stores. Don't use Sunrun. Do a 180° and go quickly
@@frankvasquez9446 they do not. You are buying from Costco, not Sunrun. Sunrun is the installation partner. Costco is a purchase only system.
If you are using 4000 kWh per month that is super high. Look at your annual usage.
@@chrismink8157, I did pulled numbers from my online account. Made changes here as far as thermostat settings, , and other things where our usage was on us. Thanks.
Great video, My thing is the solar company sunrun says they will not cover anything that goes wrong if I finance, Like the LG Chem battery will not be replaced after 10 years
Battery warranties are 10 years.
Aswesome video. Very informative. Thanks Guys!!!
So if you purchase and the solar manufacturer warranties expire on the equipment, you need to come out of pocket to fix or replace what needs to be fixed. This is called the cost of ownership, which is an expense.
Manufacturer warranties are still there
How about the prepayment ppa? Pay one time cost and comes with maintenance, warranty for 25y and free removal
Not a bad option if you have cash but not taxable income
Can you recommend a good company in Massachusetts for solar? I almost did a PPA with Sunrun until I watched your video.
They have purchase options too, if you're looking to purchase and you can claim the full tax credit over a 5 year period.
@@5000miner At What Cost? Shop around and talk with an Electric contractor.
You guys are generalizing all PPAs when a lot of companies are different. I’ve worked for Momentum and currently with Sunrun. We sell PPAs with microinverters not just central inverters…unless HO wants to add a battery like the LG chem that isn’t compatible with microinverters. The option of an escalator is also available if that’s the route a homeowner wanted to go. Also we primarily offer ownership options since majority of our retail leads are from Costco which does not offer PPAs. Ownership vs Third Party Ownership comes down to a customers long term plans with the home, what’s important to them about going solar and current job status (working or retired). It’s our job as a solar consultant to set proper expectations for them, help them understand the benefits of both sides so they can make a well informed decision on what’s best for them. Also given the current economic state we’re in, interest rate hikes, cost of materials and labor going up, dealer fees increasing…a lot more homeowners are beginning to lean toward PPAs. Especially since some companies offer the option to buy the system after yr 5. But again, there’s a time and place for them and definitely is not the best solution for every home. As educators and professionals in this space we need to have a more well rounded view and understanding of the industry. Each market is different and each utility company provides its own unique challenges to how they deal with solar.
There are a few privately owned PPAs that offer better equipment but it is very rare and SunRun has the majority of market share and so that’s who we focused on for this video
Just got done with Sunrun....I think I'm going a different way. Thanks
You got this!
Solution - Never ever put solar panels on your roof!
Instead look for much simpler and basic, less complex solutions to save energy - ie install quality dual pain energy efficient windows in your home (several a year if cant do all at once).....put extra insulation in attic.....Purchase (ideally with cash) a quality high seer (18+) 2 speed AC system from company highly rated in your area and with good warranty. I did all the above and my monthly electric bills are lower than most all of the same sized homes on my block, that went with Solar!
Investing in energy saving windows and insulation doesn’t produce power though. Two completely different things
Now in Aug of 2023, Interest Rates for a loan option are much higher than when this video was made. With the PPA/LEASE option, it’s actually looking like a better option than a loan.
I have an updated video in the works because the environment has definitely changed. PPA’s can oftentimes give you a lower payment if you’re focussed on the now. But, as a 25 year agreement, the total debt associated with the system will always be more than financing. But to your point, yes the difference seems to be much less now with interest rates going up.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting JUST ADMIT THE PPA IS BETTER
YOU CAN STOP LYING TO THESE PEOPLE TO SELL THEM LOANS
@@Augiemusic if batteries are required then there’s an argument for it if low payments are the goal
@@Superiorsolarconsulting NOT EVEN JUST LOW PAYMENTS.
Protected and monitored equipment
Ability to actually SELL the house without make or breaking the deal with loan equity BS
I got problems from sun run, i ask them to remove and re install later because i suppose to do a renovation but they like me to sign another agreement but I read those agreements they are revoking some of my rights that’s why I did not sign the agreement, I am willing to pay what ever the cost for removal and install, but they acting like they own the property as a homeowner I’m stocked
Yeah… common issue
Is it possible to off grid my extension of the house with other companies? Like ur company
I was considering the PPA coz we consume about 19,535 kWh and annually our utility bills should be about $4200 while with the PPA gave us a fixed price of $260 monthly which was about $3120 to produce same 19,535 kWh. Bad idea?
PPA’s can save you money but buying the system can usually save you more and without the shenanigans. Call or text me and we’ll go over your situation. 760-473-5878
Nothing worth selling has ever escaped the trap of debt-finance "options". At the same time, nothing worth having has ever avoided being even more valuable when paid for with cash. Debt is the trap and cash is the means of avoiding that trap.
Cash is king. Especially right now
If you need someone good from Sunrun in Massachusetts let me know. All the Sunrun Sales people that I know will explain why buying the system is better and if you are a good sales person you know that PPA is for specific people. As a customer just make sure you ask the sales person about buying the system if you think you can do that. Also don't worry so much about getting your equipment fixed these cases where it takes ages are not as common as you might think with good large companies. Check that your solar company is not going to pawn you off to another company like Sunnova. Sunrun manages their own installs and continues to get better and faster at replacing equipment. PPA is great for a lot of people. Also every state is different with PPA. More people want solar than don't now and PPA can be great for people moving or that could not have afforded the extra cost of the sold solar system. The issues with people buying homes with PPA are more often because the real-estate people not explaining correctly. Yes it is true you will save more buying. Just weigh your options and your house will sell fine. Most people cannot actually claim all of the tax credit anyways.
The way I think about it is, buying is simply the best if you can. Leasing is better than doing nothing most of the time. It’s not the lease product that’s necessarily the issue, it’s how sales people sell it.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Exactly! That should be in your video said very simply as a final note. I don't appreciate people Max rating their customers. This video comes off very combative towards the PPA and can cause people to be very negative and then those that cannot afford to buy are stuck paying the high electric bill because they are afraid of a PPA now. They should be enlightened on the process so they understand that they can negotiate the price with their salesman its not just a price that the company gives. Though not everyone will be able to do this. I'm finding a lot of people here in the comments that simply see the PPA as this evil scam. If your salesman does not mention buying ask them about it. If they do not talk about buying ask the company if they do it. If you don't like your salesman get the company to send another one.
Everbright PPA w REC panels, IQ8+ microinverters, and a Enphase Battery w 25 yr warranty.
Happy to see more companies offering micros on PPA products. The companies servicing these systems are learning that going cheap in the beginning isn’t always the cheapest
I'm a ham radio operator, spurious Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) is an important consideration. Any thoughts on the most RFI quiet system? Are micro-inverters quiet?
Would also like to know about this. Hopefully someone has knowledge to share on RFI.
This is excellent and should have known this a year ago. A Vivint (now Sunrun) smooth sales person basically took advantage of my mom (who was in her 80's). He was so smooth I too bought a PPA. Now one of the homes they had I am having trouble selling because the buyers don't want to take over the PPA. The prepayment that was quoted to me was $60K. Do I have no choice but to pay the prepayment or can I claim my mother was duped? The contract was unclear about the cost of prepayment. Now, the home is only 1500 sq feet and used 39 panels but my parent's other home is 2545 sq ft and only using 19 panels. Help!
@@AlessandroZane Dude it’s the buyer’s realtor that’s causing the issue, the word has gotten around that PPA can be an issue if we have to sell within the first 6 years.
This is a huge sticking point for a lot of sales…. It’s a big deal. It doesn’t just transfer. The buyers have to accept and take over the debt which is usually way more than what buying a system would cost them.
Excellent video!👍
Thank you!
Shingle roofing last about 17 years in the south. What is the average cost removing and reinstalling panels for roofing? I’ve had high pressure salesmen tell me that only shingles not covered by panels can be replaced. Obviously never done any roofing. Don’t think you could convince your insurance company.
Metal Roofs are the best bet for solar panels, they pretty much snap right on. Shingles are old tech.
This is fantastic! Anybody know of any solar companies who do business like they described in this video?
I service 30 states currently if you need a consultation. Reach out 760-473-5878
They are making it seem like PPA's are bad when they are the BEST option for power in the immediate for an ROI. Long term CASH is better if you stay in your home. If you buy Solar and then sell your home a few years later you wasted all that CASH for someone else to have cheaper energy.
That's not telling the whole story though because an owned system is going to raise the value of the property and with the tax credit, the owner needs to reap 74% of the total back in the sale of the house and will have gotten free power for the time in the house. If you buy a car for $10k, drive it for three years, and sell it for $10k, that car was essentially free which is what many are doing with their solar systems. A PPA can surely bring down monthly payments but doesnt set up the buyer for an easy out. I literally had a guy call me this morning who is buying a house that has 23 years years left of a sunburn PPA on it that totals over $45,000 when the cash price for a new system the same size is less than $15,000 after tax credits. So, now he's going to use it against the seller and now those poor people who thought they could easily pass It onto the new homeowner are going to be in for a surprise when they realize they should have just bought it 2 years ago.
I'm just signed up with Sunrun yesterday for this exact type of loan, 84/month with 2.9% annual increase. I have 2 days left to cancel. Anyway I can hop on a call with one of y'all about a potential alternate loan/finance strategy before then?
So sorry for not responding sooner. If you still need to chat, let me know. 760-473-5878
Any complaints regarding sunnova?
Thanks for your very informative and truth telling videos. I am looking into buying a system in AZ. Our current annual energy consumption is 20500. I've been quoted so many different sized systems and panels micros and solar edge. How much over should our system be? some want me to buy a system size smaller go under my current consumption some recommend going to 125% some to 150% bigger with lots of panels. How much overage should I realistically pay for? Are REC alpha panels good? what about titan solar panels? Leaning toward micro inverter. Thanks.
Buying would be a huge mistake.
You fell for these guys pitch
@@Augie12 can you elaborate? I haven't purchased anything so haven't fallen for anything? are you insinuating leasing is better?