Just Don't Think About That - Toly | Street Epistemology
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Toly believes in a god with infinite confidence. He believes everything came from something and that something was a god. Also that there is an element of true and false in everything, so any false belief has a little bit of truth in it. Ultimately it comes down to Toby stating that the god just exists and you shouldn't think about.
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To learn more about street epistemology (this conversational method), please visit the SE website.
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just believe... don't think... don't test... be like a child... false beliefs are also true.. just let it go... don't think about it... just believe... you can't make sense of it... therefore "eleven out of ten" confidence. Frustrating!
ixtl guul........ hail Santa...... don't think about it
He seemed like a nice guy but rambling all over the place.
That's what's known as "profound ignorance". To the point of bliss.
surely this is the only way to get to 11 out of 10 confidence
He's the reason why you can't just go by the photo on a dating site.
Hilarious comment!!!
I wouldn’t mind seeing your photo on a dating site ;)
Just don't think. Believe and he will get smarter. That's how it works apparently.
@ There are no spiritual things. Demonstrate the existence of such things first; then, we can understand/discuss them.
VAIO294
How do you know any of that?
You are witnessing something very special here, it's the first time ever this person has tried to think about anything. He got scared by this new feeling and quit 2 mins in.
Hard to listen to this guy... I admire your patience.
Easier to look at
blisguy, For real; he's very easy on the eyes.
I just began watching, thanks for the heads up
Agreed! This is one of the more painful and saddening to watch.
One of the finest examples of not thinking l have yet to encounter. Amazing. 11 out of 10
Reid your patience to sit through all his senseless metaphors is outstanding!
Very hard to keep a straight face.
--- You're just not getting what he's saying. But he is correct.
It's easy to be patient when you are trying to stay alive.
Definitely one of the most discombobulated arguments out of an interviewee I've seen in an SE video. Many people haven't thought about their beliefs critically, but the argument of "not thinking about anything" is unusual.
Great exercise in patience, as many comments have said.
It's easy to be patient when you sense that your interlocutor could be dangerous, and I certainly had that feeling about this individual.
_"Just don't think about it."_ I don't even know how you kept your cool when he kept saying that, Reid.
Toly, why on Earth should we not think about whether religious beliefs are true or not? Either way it is grossly important to determine that. If one of the religions on this planet is true, then that is desperately important information and we must gain more insight into that religion. It would be the most monumental discovery in all of human history. But if all of them are wrong then that means 6 billion of the 7 billion people on Earth are deluded. Those deluded people oftentimes make decisions due to their religious beliefs and those decisions drastically affect others.
Just to name a few off the top of my head:
1) people fly planes into buildings because of their religious beliefs
2) people don't receive blood transfusions and encourage others not to receive them either because of their religious beliefs
3) people vote for politicians or ballot measures that take away human rights because of their religious beliefs
4) people oppose teaching children about the evolution of life and giving kids medically accurate sexual education in schools because of their religious beliefs
5) people value and idolize suffering because of their religious beliefs
6) people don't want to address the problems surrounding climate change because of their religious beliefs
7) people value disgusting economic and social caste systems because of their religious beliefs
8) people subscribe to and encourage others to participate in dangerous dietary regulations because of their religious beliefs
9) people don't use counseling from mental health professionals and discourage others from obtaining mental healthcare because of their religious beliefs
10) people discourage doubt because of their religious beliefs
It's important not only to think about supernatural and outlandish claims that people make but to also talk to these people about why they believe them. Bad ideas oftentimes cause bad actions. Acting like bad ideas don't exist won't solve anything.
SailingSeignior, that's an excellent summation. Very concise and accurate.
My bad, I think I accidently gave him an overdose of blue pills.
I want "blue pill overdose" to become a technical term....
This vid is a great example of a non-coercive conversation. By giving the guy many chances to end the convo, and continuing it only with the active insistence of the guy, Cordial does what other SEists fail to do. He doesn't rope them into a conversation they feel compelled to continue. Very respectful.
A question I have asked back to the thinking-messes-us-up claim is, "You've known people who have made some pretty bad mistakes before, right? Like bad purchases, maybe buying a house they really couldn't afford, or marring the wrong person, right? Do we make more mistakes when we think too much when we don't think enough?"
Deepity + deepity + deepity + deepity + deepity != Profundity
Agaperion Rex darn it! Well, next week I'm gonna be cool.
Watch your profanity 😂
Great series. I've been watching Reid and Magnabosco for a few days now and I have come to one conclusion:
I'm so glad I'm an atheist myself and I know I won't ever have to stumble and bumble my way through this cognitive la-la land myself!
Great work gentlemen. I am seriously now considering doing the same thing myself.
I love these conversations because it shows how many people confidently believe things without ever bothering to really reflect on why or how they believe them. They usually dont ever have to reflect on it since they can just be around people who think they like do.
“Do you believe in God?”
“OF COURSE I do”
First red flag comes from his first words lol
Ouch. That was painful. That guy's poor faith just crumbled and he knows it.
HE'S SO CUTE BUT SO.... unable to reconcile is biases.
"Just don't think about it. Pretty simple"
Yet earlier in the video...
"I've been on my research for a long time..."
Damnit, Toby, are you thinking about this shit or are you not thinking about this shit?!
I wonder if it might have helped to get slightly more straight forward and assertive with questions towards the end. I think when the stubbornness is so consistent it may help. I remember a conversation Anthony had where the interlocutor was beginning to be overly stubborn and it helped to ask a more direct question. Not rude but a bit more direct.
Great stuff though. Keep em coming.
Frank Douglas
I was thinking the same... there were several opportunities to weave in the outsider's test to help him think outside of his own experience just a bit more.
Outsider Test explained at The Complete Street Epistemology Guide: How to Talk About Beliefs
goo.gl/XZQgUg
Chris Street thanks
It's very simple. Just don't think about it. Pretty simple.
This reminds me of when I was a kid and went to Sunday school. Already then I had a lot of questions and when the teachers couldn’t really answer some of them they often ended up with “Just don't think about that”.
Yep. Same
The programming is strong with this one
you mean KISS?
Reid, it is just stunning to watch you work through this. The communication skills and patience are just next-level. Keep the content coming, I am watching and learning.
He's great. Listening and careful responses are so important.
That's literally the most incoherent reasoning I've ever heard.
Might not be the best idea to have extreme in depth conversations like this, where words and language is everything... with a guy with a different native language. It's hard enough with people that speak English one hundred percent perfect to convey their thoughts in situations like this.
His English seems good enough. It's the fact he never tried in life to actually think.
It didn't seem much of an obstacle. It's an important thing to keep in mind, you're right, but it doesn't mean this guy was cornered by language barriers. He made mostly clear statements and didn't seem confused by anything said to him, not anymore than native english speakers using the same "arguments".
""morality, we created it, it's not created by the spirit world." "God created everything" The woo is strong in this one. It seems he is trying to explain mystical things as unexplainable rather than to examine and reflect on them.
What I have learned from this young person's perspective is :
Thinking is not a good way to arrive at a belief that is unprovable. The best way to believe a spiritual supernatural belief is to stop thinking and just accept it as truth.
excellent job. During his 3rd long pause seems to be the turning point for the IL to enter cognitive dissonance followed by the backfire effect. great patience
for those who are curious - the backfire effect is explained in The Complete Street Epistemology Guide: How to Talk About Beliefs goo.gl/aHTAob
this guy is the next Deepak Chopra
Haha, @ 9:32 the guy declares that "first you should understand what a belief is". What is that? Cue dumbfounded look accompanied by "Uh... uhhh... ummm...". the guy has no clue whatsoever what he's talking about. He doesn't even know what "belief" means (and that's immediately after telling how it's so important to know).
A "belief" is something that one thinks is true. That's it; it's extremely simple. Basic English, really. The problem is that people try to twist and deepen words like "belief", "believe" and "faith" to the point where even they themselves don't know what the hell they're referring to anymore.
...well... "don't think about it" :)
They also try to conflate "freedom of religion" with "right to believe whatever you want no matter if it's true". I'm all for the former, but having an untrue belief that can potentially be dangerous, should be considered. Too many people are closed minded about their beliefs. They "know" they have the answer so they stop looking or asking questions. If something is true and dangerous, we should know about it. But I imagine it would be apparent to most people. We shouldn't have to depend on personal revelation to be able to make such an important decision.
@@rachelwilliams9686 there is absolutely zero evidence to support the existence of any gods.
19:27 "you can think about it but you won't find sense in it" - I have a high confidence in this statement.
Faith is Pretending to know something you don't know
No, 'faith' is believing you somehow know the intentions of god(s) while admitting you don't know anything about god(s) - "pretty simple"
This is incredible. There should be a law against what people have done to this man.
Now on to the second half of the video after a brief intermission. Whew!
A3Kr0n well the law is.... kids need some education....... that's the best we can do.... but reaching some good standard of education is not guaranteed
It seems a lot of it is self inflicted, but he wouldn't know.. Because he's never thought about it... I've just found these videos, I don't know why I haven't found them before now.. 😁
"it's really simple"
Somehow being illuminated give you access to something i can't comprehend.
Some suggestions and thoughts for you Reid:
1. "Why are you so confident on the 0-10 scale?" (He's 10 on the scale, and 11)
2. When IL says that "everything came from something and this something is God" ask him how he knows that, and ask where does God come from?
3. Keep more eye contact with your IL. You look very busy and distracted taking notes or fiddling with your equipment at the beginning of the video. Try to stay more focused and engaged with the IL. But you keep more eye contact eventually, and that's good.
4. Resources: how does he know his resources are reliable to tell the truth?
5. If there are things we can't explain shouldn't we leave it at that and say "we don't know" instead of creating an explanation?
6. If there is no proof for a spiritual world then why should anyone believe in it?
7. I think "is believing in something a reliable way to come to a belief" is a weird question. Ask does belief make something true? Are there people who believe in things that isn't true?
8. Great question about choice and belief
9. What do you think would be good reasons to accept that something is true?
10. I think there's too many questions about belief. Ask also if IL KNOWS that his claim is true and ask about the difference between knowledge and belief. The thing that matters is what we know, what we can observe, what we can test and experiment with
11. Interesting that IL said that morality is created by ourselves :)
12. If I believe in a different god than you, for example Thor the god of thunder, what would be a good reason for me to know that he's real?
13. It's shocking that he advocates stop thinking
14. If you tell me that the god Zeus exists should I just accept it without requiring any evidence for his existence?
15. How do you know God isn't imaginary?
16. I think Haddaway can explain to us what is love ;) ha ha
17. Why shouldn't we think about it?
Great job Reid, you mad him think and reflect and looking up a lot. A lot of great pauses, great patience and calmness
This guy is blazed AF. 🔥 💨
When he says: "there is a part of truth in it" you could have gone with the "tic tac" analogy.
Apparently the prettier God makes you, the dumber you get. Bless his little heart.
This is all in an effort to avoid saying "I have no rational explanation for my belief, but holding it satisfies me emotionally."
This guy's beliefs were like a slippery fish, but you still managed to pin them down and make him confront them all the same. This is the skill I lack the most: the ability to deal with beliefs based on deepities.
His response to, "first you should understand what a belief is" is a perfect example of his incredible skill at SE. I immediately would have told him that I believe I have a good grasp on the meaning, but Reid so quickly with the perfect Socratic interrogative sentence! Bravo!
That was painful. That dude gets by on his looks and accent, because his brain is broken.
@ wow, great point. I forgot about the nuhuh argument.
VAIO294
Try me.
Let’s hear a detailed explanation of what everyone here is “misunderstanding.”
Please, enlighten us.
@
I want to hear a detailed explanation of what everyone here is “misunderstanding," just like I asked.
Thanks in advance.
VAIO294
Still waiting on that detailed explanation of what everyone here is misunderstanding. Thanks.
@ you said, "you're not getting what he's saying", which is you claiming to know what I am understanding. How is that a true statement? How do you know what I am or am not understanding when I just stated my opinion? Did god tell you that I didn't understand?
I just finished watching the entire interview. Do I get a reward of some kind? :-) But seriously, I think Toly was struggling with articulating his answers, not just because he apparently hadn't considered them before, but because he was first having to translate the questions from English into his native language (Swedish, maybe?). It's very tiring to carry on a conversation that way. But if I correctly got the gist of it, he said, numerous times (but never very articulately), that "thinking" (guessing he meant "logic") is not a reliable way to determine whether or not God exists, because the human brain is not capable of comprehending God. This concept comes straight from the Old Testament, and is the essence of the challenge in successfully moving a dogmatic theist toward a less confident stance: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths." (Proverbs 3: 5-6). He alluded to this idea when he brought up the 10 commandments. The theology here is that if you simply acknowledge God, and follow his commandments, the truth will be revealed to you - not intellectually - but spiritually.
What in earth is he trying to say??!
I'm honestly suprised at 11:35 when he states that "morality is actually created by ourselves". I guess his being so focused on The One Thing That Created Everything caused me to think that morality is part of the creation, as seems so natural to many theists. I suppose you never do know what comes out of a convo like that. Love your patience!
Agree. Odd to talk about 10 commandments but believe morality is subjective.
" _Just don't think about it. Pretty simple. Just don't make it complicated._ " Sounds more like a catch phrase to get laid...another way of truth finding so they say...
It's painful to see people trying to explain something that boils down to "I have no idea".
It's impressive to me when people have conversations such as this in a language other than their mother tongue. Personally, I feel constrained or limited when I try to speak in another language.
Love this video! It reminds me a lot of the people I'd talk with while I was backpacking in Australia. Thinking they're very deep while being incredibly shallow.
I don't mean to flame on the guy in the video too much though. Everyone can be caught of guard a little when being put on the spot like this. Just reminded me of certain people I met is all.
12:08 “You see you make it a little bit complicated. It’s pretty simple. Just .. god exists and everything came from him, and that’s it. Pretty simple. 100% confidence.”
His indoctrinators would be proud
Remarkable portrayal of patience
holy crap im speachless. How does this guy get through life with this kind of thinking?
--- The guy in the video (Toly) is actually correct. You're just not getting it
.... We are doomed!
This guy is real big on ‘just don’t think’
...At least he’s deliberate about it.
yes..."very simple" indeed
your my new fucking hero, guy. How the fuck do you keep a straight face in front of such absurdity. my GOODness.
"Just don't think about it!" Pretty disturbing 😳
You have an extremely calming personality. Because of this, I think you could get away with a more aggressive, pressing style. I'm sure you have quite a few subs, but I think you would get lots more. Viewers like to see results, and I'm at the point where I feel if you've seen one, you've seen them all when it comes to SE. Probably, SE is the most effective way to get people thinking, but the videos become hard to watch.
In my experience, most people who are so over-confident about their belief (200%!) allready have a tiny skeptic person on their shoulder whom they are trying to silence by exaggerating. Sooner or later they have to deal with that person though. And I bet Toly already met that person once or twice in his life and got so scared, he tries to stop thinking all together by 'keeping it simple'. Luckily for him it probably won't last.
Interesting how the cocky ones are often the most incoherent ones
VAIO294 challenge accepted! What is this guy’s main belief and what is the main reason he believes it?
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe --- LIsten. What the guy in the white T-shirt (Toly) is saying is correct!
--- It’s not for us to “prove” God is true or false. *Almighty God proves His own existence* to those who obey His _“Law of FAITH”_ by believing Him.
--- And just to be clear; Almighty God is not like some law of physics that you test in a laboratory and see if it’s repeatable and provable.
--- Instead, Almighty God is the Supreme, non-material, *CONSCIOUS LIVING BEING.* He *purposely* does *not* submit to human laboratory testing to determine His existence.
.
So, the whole entire idea of trying to establish God’s existence by scientific testing *must* be completely taken *off* the table and *removed* from the conversation when talking about God and knowing His existence.
.
With Almighty God, He has designated that *FAITH is the KEY* (not scientific testing) that opens the door to knowing Him and experiencing His presence and power in your life and the key to eternal life.
---- And “faith” does *not* mean joining a religion or denomination. The kind of faith that God is speaking of is BELIEVING Him and BELIEVING His word, as we see in the verse below;
.
>>> Hebrews 11:6 ~ *_”And without FAITH it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him MUST BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that He REWARDS those who earnestly seek Him.”_*
.
So again, it’s not for us to prove if God exists or not. *God Himself proves His own existence to those who obey His “Law of FAITH” by BELIEVING Him.*
---- People who don’t believe God are simply calling God a liar, and such a person will *not* receive any proof from God prior to their death.
.
Yes, *faith* is THE *_“reliable pathway to truth”_* when it comes to Almighty God. He Himself has ordained it to be that way. Not science.
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These are divine truths that Reid in the video is simply not comprehending.
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VAIO294, it’s not god that needs proving. It’s the hypothesis that “god exists” that needs proving. After all, it’s a claim that’s in question.
VAIO294, the thing in question is the verification of the thing in question? Smells AWFULLY circular to me
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe -- This is not "circular." -- I'm telling you very plainly that Almighty God's existence is NOT something that's to be, nor can it be, verified by human laboratory testing. That's *not* God's way. Why is that hard to understand?
This guy appears to have not really thought deeply about the questions you asked Reid. Still a good talk. He probably will be thinking about it more after I bet.
Nice work. I think that asking him about "confusion" would have been beneficial. His whole premise of "thinking leads to confusion" could have been explored. Maybe, "is confusion always a bad thing?"
He's in the state of bliss... I'm jealous!
OMG Reïncarnation must be real!
Only explanation is that he must have been a snail in his previous life.
Or it's a 'spirit animal'?
Best comment on this vid 😂 also, snails are awesome 🐌🐌🐌
BAHAHAHAHAA..... That giggly grin and excitement every time he thinks he's made a profound statement: "You don't think when you sleep" BOOM... "you don't know how your liver works!" BOOM... "Do you remember you childhood?" BOOOOMMMMMMM
Right off the bat: "Of course I do!" as a response to "Do you believe in God?". When people take as a given that a god exists, everything the build upon it is extremely questionable.
This is my third one of these. So fascinating!
This particular guest is bizarre. I think there might be a language barrier, so the guest might not mean exactly what it sounds like he’s saying. There might be some nuance lost in translation.
I don’t think the host made a dent in this guy’s psyche! He tried to exit the conversation 3 times!
I wonder what he'd say if someone told him that some religions believe that the universe has always existed, i.e., it has no beginning or end. He might find that fact curious. It would be interesting to hear him reconcile religions with an origin story ad religions with no origin stories. (Though he'd probably respond and say "There is some truth in that false belief"!)
Having watched a number of these videos, I have learned that many people have absolutely no basis for what they believe, but they have absolute confidence in it, despite the fact that they don’t trust the reasons for their beliefs to be reliable. It is bewildering how they continue to function.
I believe X
How confident are you?
100%
Why are you so confident?
Because Y
Is Y reliable?
No.
If you found out Y was untrue, would that change your confidence?
No.
Okay then!
--- You're just not getting what he's saying. But he is correct.
How do we not think? I want to know more of what got him to think this way.
careful what you wish for
Try Carlos Castaneda books for full example, here's short version www.nothingeverhappened.org/internal-dialogue/
Just got introduced to your channel.. love it! But this conversation was just hard to listen to... Wow! Just don't think about it, just let it go... lol
I rate your patience 11 out of 10
I never really put it together till now, but it almost seems like you can judge if someone believes in god without hesitation by their eyes
Left: deep, recessed look to eyes, in need of 2 shots of coffee and some electrolytes (Non-theist)
Right: practically beaming out of his head, glassy, deer in the headlights (theist)
Oh shit I'm a non-theist and that describes me accurately 😂
Is there any belief you couldn't hold by just letting go and keeping it simple?
Stopping thinking is very advanced meditative exercise btw, recommend it
Confidence level 10. Ability to reason level 0. Man you have so much patience.
Thanks to this guy, I stay away from drugs..
sergio viquez 🤣😆👍
Reid, what's the function or purpose of posting the interviewees' confidence ratings on the board next to them vs. simply hearing the answer or writing it down for yourself? Is it to make them see that assertion as more public and concrete? Is it a matter of accountability while they provide answers? I wonder if that leads them to feel more committed to their expressed views.
WE ARE HERE SO gOD DONE IT
-- And that is correct and true.
You have the patience of a saint
His out there theories are bang on for the religious type. Lol. I’m a little disappointed that he wasn’t corned much earlier in the interview. Letting him waffle on was giving him to much confidence in his fallacies and more importantly making me nauseous. All the best.
I think I would have pushed him more on some of the points he made. Like "There is a part of truth in every false statement". If i say 2 + 2 = 1, what is the part of truth in that statement ?
If the answer is "I don't know", maybe ask "Are you sure there is a part of truth in that ?" "If we can't figure out what it is, why believe there is a part of truth in it at all ?" (not sure about the second question tho...)
Reid has the perfect features on his face for doing this activity of SE. Also added he does a perfect pokerface.
Toly seems confused about what he believes. Either he has never really thought about it or he has thought about it and has ignored the possibilities that his belief is faulty.
I like how you show them a door and wait to see if they walk through it. If they don't and go in a different direction, you present the same question in a different format. It's sort of like painting the door a different color to see if they will still go through the same door.
that was almost complete nonsense.
Memory Man..... it was definitely words
Memory Man. Almost???
@Memory Man -- The problem is that you're just not getting what he's saying. But he is correct.
When he says "just believe", fine. The next thing you should ask is: How do you pick what to "just believe" in? Why not "just believe" in the existence of invisible fairies? Why is the existence of God the thing that you should "just believe"?
I would have loved an outsider test on that one. Say you have a christian and a muslim and they both "don't think about it" but you want to know which one of them has the truth, how do you go about finding out? Would Toby had accepted that god doesn't exist or that some other god exist with the same reasoning put back to him?
That would have been lovely to see.
Good job Reid
dang was gonna hit up runyon tomorrow and hope you were there...
Wow what a struggle to get through that one
When special pleading doesn't work for him he just waves it away saying "don't think about it."
Can't define God but it's a HE.
Ever feel that some people’s minds are wired differently.
We really should teach critical thinking in primary and secondary school.
Prisoners of war could be forced to watch this interview as a form of torture.
He said we go deep an confuse our self's well in bloody confused.. Listening to him...
From "Inherit the Wind"....."I don't think about things I don't think about".
Just, Wow!
Interesting how he went from 10/10 to 11/10 to protect his belief when challenged. Even when people don't seem to connect the dots the moment they're being challenged, I *believe *they're still hoing home with a seed planted in their mind. Maybe even more so than people who easily admit their flawed logic, because cognitive dissonance is so uncomfortable you can't just ignore it forever.
--- You're just not getting what he's saying. But he is correct.
He's just floating through life in a relaxed bubble believing whatever he wants, because he seemingly doesn't care whether those beliefs are true. I bet lots of people around his age find him deep too - quite sad to think that layers of deepities tied to some dont worry about it's have added up to a world view.
the future of religions is pretty....... simple
I wonder how the conversation would go with an exercise. Provide your interlocutor with a mundane statement he must defend from challenges with every resource at his command as if his life depends on it. Record the methods and statements used and I dare say there will be a parallel with the defense of theism.
When a client retains a lawyer, the lawyer's job is to defend the client regardless of guilt with all the skills available to that lawyer. So too does the amygdala retain the pre frontal cortex to defend its beliefs regardless of the veracity of the belief.
It would have been interesting to ask him, "Why do you think people should not think about this and just believe? Why should people just believe in this?"
Okay, I appreciate these and wonder if I would flounder the same under this line of questioning.
Descartes' foundationalism answers these questions you are posing. Maybe check him out!