Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep - The Turning Point
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- An in-depth review and analysis of Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep and it's impact on the Kingdom Hearts series as a whole. Many say Birth by Sleep is a masterpiece and possibly the best Kingdom Hearts game ever made. But how does it hold up? Let's find out.
This video is the culmination of 2 months of writing, recording, and editing. It is without a doubt the hardest I've worked on any video project. I hope you enjoy.
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Don't let this distract you from the timeline where three kids tried to build a raft and sail to another world armed with three coconuts, two mushrooms, a single bottle of clean water, no navigation materials and a complete lack of understanding for when a storm might occur and end up dying at sea while Sora's mom wonders why the fuck she let him hang out with Riku to begin with.
What do you mean by 3 coconuts i had 99 coconuts. Bold of you to assume my coconuts.
@@okat32WHO THE HELL COLLECTS 99 COCONUTS?!?!
@@ajddavid452 DO NOT QUESTION THE POWER OF MY WILL
@@okat32 more like you need to go see a therapist because that doesn't sound healthy
@@ajddavid452true. And I didn't think you hold onto more than 3 coconuts?
Lowkey KH1 and CoM story/Sora doesn't get nearly enough props for making him an ACTUAL CHARACTER and not a cheesey shounen protagonist. Also adding the Naruto moment is how to make any statement badass.
Com has the best Sora, it's the only game where he is, get this, RELATABLE
cheesy***
@@Stefanoabed05 kh2 he was still relatable.
@@Stefanoabed05 Shame the actual gameplay is hot garbage.
@@1992holycrap The Sora one hell yeah, riku had more actual good gameplay rather than preparation
As someone who played most of these games as a kid, I had the opposite reaction to gameplay. To me, KH2 was "Mash X and Triangle everything else is worthless" because hey, that's what KH1 taught me, why would I use these weird summons and limits and stuff? Then BBS came and I thought "Woah I can't mash X through! I have to use commands and shotlocks and stuff this is waaaay more complex!"
It's only in the last year or so, looking at KH2 FM+ HD videos and speedruns, that I discovered what insane depth the game had, and how everything just fell into place. Unlike BBS which can ultimately devolve to Megaflare spam.
So ultimately, I think at what age you play these games factors in a lot on how you feel about them, and I have to assume Square might be taking simplicity and general easiness/mindlessness to appeal to a core demographic of children that might have moved on years ago.
lol it switched the button you mash.
hassanico9999 if you play kh2fm on critical, it becomes EXTREMELY rich in gameplay. The game in its entirety challenges you, especially since leveling up is practically meaningless.
hassanico9999 I usually play my first round of game play for any Kingdom hearts on the most difficult mode there is. it gives more of s challenge on the first try especially since evey kingdom hearts game is relatively simple in game. 90% of the time you're massing a single button with the occasional use of other buttons. the only KH games I feel had a challenging battle system even in normal mode was 358/2 Days and Chain of memories.
n8298906 agreed, days and com we're the hardest by far.
Re:CoM was easy when you set up slight decks. If you planned it right, boss fights would be over just by spamming triangle.
Riku's side is more interesting though, as it forces you to learn how to use decks on the fly (and that made subsequent Sora playthroughs more interesting).
Actually when you get over the learning curve I find the combat much more enjoyable than BBS, but boy does it suck when you don't know what you're doing.
You see Batman... my father was a Kingdom Hearts enjoyer and a fiend. Until one day he came home and asked my mother, " How many Xenanorts are they?" When she couldn't answer ... He did not like that. Not one bit.
One thing I noticed recently is how inconsistent the "meddling with the world order" rules are. In KH1, Goofy was hesitant in mentioning the heartless to the Queen of Hearts in Wonderland, which would've helped Alice in her predicament. But then he casually says to King Triton that they're after the keyhole, while also hiding the fact that they're from another world. Would've been much easier to just straight up state their business and ask for help. Goofy in KH2, while Jack Sparrow is in the room, says that they're from another world. Also, the whole idea of Traverse Town was that people who lost their world to darkness would somehow, if they got lucky I guess, end up there, therefore, revealing to those people that there are in fact other worlds. Word definitely got around after that.
Tbf king triton is already aware of other worlds
It is the consequence of the games not being planned out. Well known fact that KH1 was sort of made in a vacuum and they really didn't know what to do for sequels, with the secret movie just sort of being a "Lets write/show some mysterious shit and then figure out what it all means later". Some of the inconsistencies can be explained but ultimately "no meddling" on the face of it makes no sense. The very moment you talk to someone, open a door, kill a heartless is the moment you have begun meddling. At that point its just semantics over what the protags is too much.
Personally when I first played the game, the relationship between the trio never felt exactly like the friendship of other trios in the series. However, what it did feel like was a sort of pseudo-sibling relationship. I felt that way particularly because I myself have been in school with cousins and siblings in the past, male and female, and felt a distinct similarity. Aqua's a doting sister type, Terra's a big bro, Ven's a tag along little bro, and they all have fun learning and hanging out together as a family in the keyblade wielder order, living under the same roof and all. But not in the exact same way as one would when palling around with friends from other homes who you can just do and say the most idiotic outlandish things with. And thinking of it that way; what the game portrayed totally made sense to me, and didn't feel "problematic", or forced. I never saw it as something the same as Sora, Kairi and Riku, or Roxas and friends, because straight away, it felt like another legitimate kind of relationship. So in essence, their relationship was never a flawed point for me. It may have made references to past trio's interactions, but in the end it painted itself as something clearly different, and it made sense.
All of the games after KH1, are the result of an otherwise brilliant game director making up the lore long the way, instead of planning everything out ahead of time. Lots of back-tracking, plot element recycling, and so forth....The Kingdom Hearts series is still very enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but to say that it's flawless and that nothing could have been done better, is just ignorant. Great video, sir!
so basically the video game series equivalent of your typical weekly shonen manga
Stoner_Plays I'm in that fanbase lol
With how disapointing kh3 was i really just wished they would reboot the series with a fully thought out story
@@MrGr8nate KH 3 wasnt dissapointing.
It only wasnt what we expected or wanted as a fanbase. We thought it was the finale, then Nomura tells us its the finale OF a saga, to then start another one with the Master of Masters
We wanted a gameplay feel like KH 2, with world building like KH 1, as we saw in trailers, but got underwhelmed by how straight forward the combat got. World building was beautiful though
Game was too easy. Only way to make it a "near critical" mode is to go Lvl 1 on Proud mode, without any Boosts, Armor or Accesories. Believe me, it makes a big difference.
Battles were also pretty boring and straight forward. Xehanort was hella fun and epic, but doesnt compare to the beauty that Xemnas was
And im saying this as how i saw the people express their negative opinions towards KH 3. And i loved KH 3.
Its a game made more for newcomers, rather than hardcore fans imo
@@lura8040 but its not for newcomers because a newcomer would be completely lost in the story the combat also isnt that smooth at times flowmotoion is eh and the worlds you visit are just straight paths and boring af i thought the finale was anti climactic this felt like a game he just had to make to get to the next saga
I honestly feel like I am the only one who really likes Aquas voice.
Flip.555 I thought her voice actor was fine, same with Terra.
She voiced by the actress who played Speedy on the CW's Arrow. They literally hired a CW actor and Terra? I dont even know what trash can they scrapped him out of. They must have spent their casting budget on Nimoy.
So glad I played it in Japanese first, the cast was way better.
her voice is fine but if she actually emoted at some point i think it would be better
to be fair though this was before she was on arrow back then she wasn't that well known however that implies the problem imo most of her lines had little to no emotion and i believe thats because it was her first role as a voice actress
She's okay, but her lines were so soulless in BBS. She got better in 0.2.
I actually quite liked the concept that anyone can wield a Keyblade if their heart is strong enough. It sells the core idea of the series, that friendship and connections empower even the regular joes to greatness.
I mean, the blades we see in-game were passed down, but that's just another version of the 'connections' we were talking about. The younger characters are carrying the will of past generations with them.
Bad that killed the original kh concept.
Except that is not how it works. A Keyblade wielder can give someone the ability to wield the Keyblade. That's the stupid part. It contradicts the "The Keyblade chooses its master" narrative established in KH1.
From a retrospective, I think BBS set up the rest of the franchise for failure.
Besides the departure from the main permits and features of the original plot (particularly where Xehanort is concerned), reusing Roxas for Ven's character model had a lot of people confused if they had just left off from KH2, and beginners starting at KH3.
And where chain of memories and 358/2 act as good fillers to set up context between existing works, BBS set up the plot for way too many story points in the series for the series to hit true with its original premise. You had Unversed that were somehow different from Heartless because of Vanitas (not corrupted hearts, but incomplete hearts?). You had the Keyblade masters, the Keyblade War which then extends back to Kingdom Hearts X, then you had the power of waking in kingdom hearts 3D that ties back to this game...
All so kh3 can revive what essentially are filler characters that had completed character arcs? And what should've been complete in 3D with Sora finally able to become a Keyblade master instead has him nerfed far below his peak in kh2 coming into 3. Not only had every game since bbs cheapen the experiences from 1-2 (as well as the fillers in between those, because even Roxas became a copy of Ventus instead of Sora and undermined the whole point of Nobodies being their own persons), but failed to create stories that really stood on their own two feet independent of the other titles. And when they were all contingent on KH3 being able to create closure, that turned KH3 from a sequel of KH2 to being a sequel of BBS, X, and 3D.
All because SE kept taking Nomura away from his ff13 versus obsession, lmao.
Nomura's downfall is listening to fans too much.
Listening to fans can be good, but not always. Sometimes fans want dumb things.
That broom scene is gold.
You idiot! It's not gold, 𝓘𝓣'𝓢 𝓓𝓘𝓥𝓘𝓝𝓔
I think your reasoning of the keyblade not choosing people, and Sora not longering being special is a bit off... they even said in KH1 that Sora was just basically the delivery boy for Riku... the fact that Sora was able to resummon the keyblade after his whole friendship speech proves that the keyblade still does have choice. It's still the same old shtick. What I liked about Sora wasn't that he was the chosen one or anything like that, but that he was just an average kid in the first game, but grew to be so much more, whereas Riku was the golden child and technically the rightful chosen one. Even if BBS retconned that, it doesn't change the angle that Sora was a normal boy, who basically earned the keyblade instead of it being passed down to him.
I guess you could argue he could summon ven's keyblade, but from what I understand he doesn't know how. He has the ability to wield one, but can only access it through certain means (like drive forms). And yeah, everyone getting a keyblade has totally undermined it's importance. Many of your other arguments I can agree with, just have to add my 2 cents.
Actually i allways interpretend Vens presence to be the reason why Sora could use a second Keyblade, just like Xion was Roxas reason for that ability.
Actually i allways interpretend Vens presence to be the reason why Sora could use a second Keyblade, just like Xion was Roxas reason for that ability.
true
yoymg 101343 Considering the Keyblade War is long forgotten by all of the Worlds, the history was distorted. Thats usually how Legends are born.
In BBS Time only very few know how to pass onthe keyblade, and even that knowledge is hidden from the main population, just like the fact that there are other worlds.
Thats at least my in game lore explanation.
Truth is, Nomura didn't think that far when creating the first game, and shoehorned a lot of extra bullshit into the story. It is obvious the man can't write sequels. Way to many plotholes, and retcons.
thritaldor This
And to be completely honest, I don't really care much if he's been chosen or not. The interesting part of KH1's story was Sora finally standing up to Riku, and fighting as equals, which doesn't get affected regardless of whether or not there was a "chosen one"
You're wrong, the Kingdom Key was Riku's inherited keyblade which moved to Sora, Ven's heart isn't what allows him to wield it. Ven's heart is the reason Sora can dual wield in drive forms.
To be fair that is a pretty common misconception
And it also further proves his point that the KH series' story has become far too complex that we literally need to fact check stuff through Nomura interviews to just understand the basics.
***** no he doesn't get it from Roxas lmao otherwise he would have been able to dual wield in KH1 since he was whole. The new clothes he got allowed him to bring out the second keyblade, that's literally what the clothes do. Bring out Sora's potential, which is what the fairies explained. Roxas hadn't given in to Sora until they faught after Axel's death, he even asks why Diz picked Sora to defeat the Org instead of him.
***** smh you're wrong and you're interpreting my comment wrong too. HMK does theory videos, I watch his stuff lol and that's all they are - theories. Just think about what you're saying for a bit and you will notice how you don't make sense.
thats not really the point. the point is that the value of the keyblade has dimished judged by how easy riku got one. inheritance and the amount of weilders simply dont make it as special as before
lil chihuahua as before? There are only a few keyblade wielders now; before, there were an abundance amount of keyblade wielders
Seven years later, and I still find myself returning to this video. It still very much encompasses how I feel about the state of the Kingdom Hearts series. I love seeing analysis videos from you, and I hope to see more from you in the future.
I agree and sadge. He's a dad now so likely won't be returning sometime.
And yet mostly nothing was explained in kh3
Great job Nomura
*WONDERFUL*
What wasn't explained?
Lavaxtris S everything. We still don’t know what Kingdom Hearts is, its not scala, and we have no idea what the power of waking or why its important. Why can’t we know :(
@@zachtemoro2116 Didn't you play DDD? You would know about the power of waking.
Somebody put Kingdom Hearts like this:
"The combined life-force of everything that exists. If you can somehow control that kind of power, congratulations, you are now God."
It's basically a collection of hearts. Hearts of worlds, hearts of man, etc... it really doesn't matter. Basically when a collection of hearts is put together, a version of Kingdom Hearts forms.
Xer0o0 HASSAN CHOP Admittedly, I kinda prefer BBS over KH3.
Kh3 was more of a time for action if anything, they kind of just went off with what the plot left in ddd and did what they sought to do
At first I was iffy about this video due to the length. But as I watched I wasn't even checking the time. You had me hooked for the entire video. You have a good argument and brought up fantastic points and the use of humour was awesome. Although I have one teeny tiny correction to make. Sora can wield the Keyblade because he was indeed chosen. Not due to Ven's heart residing within him. Don't worry about it, it's a common misconception. Nomura stated this himself in the KH1 Ultimania. Although this does go back to your point on how convoluted the story is when you have to dig through interviews to obtain certain facts. If anything it supports your argument even further because Sora is like the only wielder legitimately chose by the Keyblade and the rest either were trained to wield it or inherited it. I'd definitely recommend this video for any KH fan.
I want the X-Keepers to watch this
***** Yeah for sure. xD
I would love to hear Dean's thoughts on this video, if he hasn't already watched the video.
Bl00dyBizkitz Man I would love the Tokyo team to develop KH 3 and not the Osaka team...I don't want KH 3 to feel so floaty lel xD
I actually enjoyed the story even when i was younger still do
Holy shit, this was like a less ranty and more informed version of Sequalitis
It's almost like the guy actually does his homework... Unlike Arin.
+mrguy22494 Homework? Both this and sequelitis are literally just an individual sharing their thoughts and experiences to explain their opinions. Not really much homework to do for that.
Arin doesn't do this thing called "Research". He always just assumes things when he wants to make a statement. Just look at how he approaches Sonic games. Or, even better, how much do you want to bet that he's never even played Skyward Sword? Arin just bitches and moans about things he's either never played but heard about, or things that make things too difficult for him.
Again, he literally just talks about his own personal experiences with a game or series, same as what BB did. There's no research to do for that.
Bloodybizkitz doesn't go out of his way to tell you that if like something then too bad, which is what Arin does. BB here said that if you like BBS, that's fine. But Arin is very much willing to go out of his way to say that his opinion is the only one that matters.
Aqua sounds like she was forced to record her lines after spending the day before crying
I agree with almost everything said in the video, except for the title. I don't think BBS was the turning point, at least storywise the turning point clearly was CoM. The overplotting, the irrelevance of Disney elements, the tendency to add new elements to the story rather than deepening the ones that were there already... all of BBS's flaws come straight from CoM.
I wouldn't say BBS is the "turning point", but it likely is the "point of no return". CoM and KH2 nicely wrapped up the plot, so that it was still very easy to go back to the basics after, just by starting a new story arc from scratch. But BBS retconned the series so heavily that the mess it has made will stick around.
Yeah but Re:Com was not the turning point in terms of gameplay, it had great gameplay despite having a completely different formula from anything anyone would expect from a kingdom hearts game, while also managing to retain that unique kingdom hearts game feel. Bbs attempted to do something similar in terms of gameplay to re:com, having an expansive array of tools at your disposal to maximize player freedom, but utterly failed because they didnt understand basic game design or the expectations of a kh game. And in terms of story re:com itself isn't very convoluted, many new characters are introduced for sure, but stuff like the organization or nobodies or castle oblivion are left unexplained. in re:com you're just thrust into this situation with almost no explanation of why you're there, who you're fighting, and who namine is, and its never explained in that game, the game is an enigma with no complex lore, and it adds this intrigue as to wtf is going on, all you know is that you need to fight to get your memories back, and that a sisnister organization wants your power for something. All of re:com's lore is explained by other games. In re:com they still knew how to write an immersive story that with held information from the player, whereas in kh2 the first thing you do as sora is get an exposition dump explaining exaclty who, how, and why you need to fight, as well as a ton of tacted on lore. I'd say kh2 was the turning point for the storytelling, not re:com.
@@Epicvampire800 My one criticism of COM gameplay was how luck based card aquisition was. My first time playing, my luck was horrible and I had a hard time due to extremely weak cards. When I tried again years later, I had much better card luck and stuff that had been impossibly difficult was almost too easy.
@@randomstuff-qu7sh yeah that seems reasonable but i never encountered it probably because i spent a lot of time grinding just because the gameplay was fun. Overall its a very good game imo.
Kingdom Hearts 2 was the turning point. It introduced different plot threads that the various handheld games explored, and made the plot line and character tree so complex. Roxas, and his time in the Organisation as well as friendship with Axel was explored in 358/2 Days. Things like Aqua’s Keyblade armour, the Lingering Will and Braig are followed up in Birth by Sleep. The epilogue is resolved in re:coded, which in turn begins laying the foundation for Kingdom Hearts 3, as well as leading into Dream Drop Distance, which ties Days, Birth by Sleep and re:coded together and contextualises them for Kingdom Hearts 3.
Nah, imo the point of no return is dream drop distance. I'd say 80% of the story flaws from KH3 result from that game.
Funny thing is that you described all the reasons Re: Coded is my favorite of the commands. Proper stun, toned down command attacks, good combos, and every keyblade having a purpose combat wise (even with minigame bosses). Past that story wise Data Sora gained his true keyblade not because inheritance but his growth and connection to others even in a data-based form making him someone you can connect to..
2023, re coded still slaps
@@orlandofurioso7329 agreed 🙏
@@pencilonpaper1026 Same, the gimmick stages suck but the regular combat is stellar. The clock system added so much variety, and leveling up the different keyblades to unlock more overclock abilities felt AMAZING, with each keyblade being completely different from one another.
why am i the only fucker that loves aquas voice acting? i wanna have love with her voice :/
if anything, Terra voice acting is worse apart from the final cut-scenes with him. (though he's gotten better in 0.2)
That's probably 'cause she's voiced by Willa Holland, who is sexy as hell
Matthew Lee Her delivery was flat sometimes in BBS (especially in the disney world scenarios, like sometimes she sounds bored with the lines), but otherwise it's okay overall.
Unlike Jason Dohring's Terra who sounded like piece of wood unless the scene calls for him to be a mad piece of wood where he's convincingly enraged.
Gonalex Voice acting never meant much to me but I do have standards. If it's actually horrendous like Arc Rise Fantasia then yeah it's a problem
I need more analytical Kingdom Hearts videos...
khdayskh1314 me too... Most of the Kingdom Hearts channels like GamerJoint and HMK can't put proper sentences together, much less make credible analysis videos on KH games
***** I know right? Sure sometimes their content is somewhat interesting but it's nothing of real substance or something that's founded on something nonsensical.
Frustrated Jacob is your guy
OblivionTheTcgPlayer agreed that guy does great content
HMK's content has no value, most of his videos are just things that dont need to be videos, just so he can get his shitty ad revenue. Its low effort and has no value.
My biggest gripe with this game was the weird difficulty spikes. The game had absolute horrible pacing. First 4 worlds piece of cake then all of a sudden you start getting wrecked by the unversed even if you would grind out 20 or 30 levels before then. Then the final bosses are bags of potatoes in terms of difficulty then the final bosses one shot you on any difficulty and have cheap attack patterns?? What the actual fuck xD
Yo fr. The level up/difficulty was ridiculous
Vanitas Remnant/Mysterious Figure: Hello there
Very well said. I was over leveled and did no damage.
This is completely different from the experience of me and my friends. Most people I talk to have the issue of the first couple worlds being a pain in the ass and then the rest of the game is pretty much a cakewalk. I had some issues with certain bosses but all in all I thought they were mostly solid, but a lot of boss difficulty ends up being subjective so it is what it is.
Regarding Terra being willing to believe Master Xehanort so easily: Terra knew that darkness was in his heart. He didn't ask for it. He had been trained only to accept light, and yet the darkness found a place in his heart. He probably didn't feel like he could ask his master about it and so when Xehanort offered him answers, it was only natural that he was open to it. For those of us who understand what it's like to be told that you have to be a certain way because it's "the right way" this kind of trust is totally understandable. Xehanort was kind to him and gave him the truth. The darkness inside us will only grow and become stronger if we avoid it and push it down. Darkness (like difficult emotion) has to be channeled and understood. We never defeat our demons, we only learn to live above them. The true genius of Xehanort, was that he exploited Terra's vulnerability and used the truth to manipulate him.
Thanks for that little mention of Re:Coded; Re:Coded is easily one of my favorites in the series, gameplay wise, because it took the combat system from BBS and made it actually functional. Combos and commands are both equally viable and can be chained together really nicely, not like BBS where commands can't be used mid-combo most of the time and have so much starting and ending lag. I still like BBS and DDD for what they are, I'm just painfully aware of their flaws.
I felt like birth by sleep is stellar ideas with bad execution. I loved the game and see how its flaws can turn people away. However it's due to it's amazing ideas and imperfect flaws that make me adore this game. Also characters being bland is subjective, same thing with the appeal behind battle mechanics. However I very much appreciated your position of knowledge. I think square is doing well. I also noticed how bosses did discourage commands aside from magnera and Thundaga but as a child I didn't know that so I spent an AGONISING amount of time leveling up with time splicer and other commands to try and cope. The end game bosses can be beaten without minesquare but I just don't see it being practical agreed.
This is it! The perfect breakdown of what kingdom hearts has gone towards. The more games they’ve made the more they’ve separated the Disney worlds and characters from the KH Story. It was gold having a connection to the main villain in Riku and having him interact with the Disney villains and grooming them to give into the darkness. Riku influencing maleficent, maleficent influencing every other villain. It was amazing. So sad that it’s now just a Disney slideshow ending with anime battles.
I mean, you can call Terra and Ven stupid, but Sora's not been the brightest bulb either.
yea but for a different reason, terra causes all the problems by being dumb, and ven is very naive
The japanese trope of the good hearted but dense as steel protagonist, is seriously the worst
In Kingdom Hearts, everyone is stupid except Goofy.
@@TimothyGod the truly stupid character in birth by sleep is Eraqus. after being attacked by xehanort a few years later he invites him to the keyblade exam, putting him in close proximity to ven.
Especially in DDD. Not even Terra's stupidity in BbS was that frustrating to watch...
"Hey Jim?"
"Yeah, Bob?"
XDDDDDDDDDD
Seems very accuate for Square Enix
tsunderek looks like futaba
This was funny as hell dude, great work
In Terra's defense, Xehanort's obviously evil appearance is only visible to us the player, while the other characters likely see him as a regular old guy. Not to mention that he was a well respected keyblade master.
Caleb H Exactly, First of all they couldn't have try to portray him as a good guy because A his name is Xehanort and B he was shown before to be evil before. Plus is Eraqus' fault for not warning the trio about Xehanort beforehand, for trusting Xehanort again after what he did to him, seeing his darkness and knowing his plans; Terra at least trusted him because he was a trusted master and a friend of Eraqus.
I don't know man, that feels like a pretty crap excuse when earlier games had fourteen year old kids sniffing out most of their villains (Hell, even Riku at his worst had the brains to question Maleficent's motives).
Even after all this time, I find myself returning to this video once again. From start to finish, the way you present information and then pick apart the series is captivating and each time, I forget that the video is even 50 minutes long. Hands down, one of the best videos out there for the KH fan base to watch.
"Many say Birth by Sleep is a masterpiece..."
I've never heard anyone say that, nor do I ever hope to lol
Only really true for the early 2010s, I remember people really were saying that on a lot of KH boards
It was really common back in the day and still happens with some newer fans, it's one of the more popular games. I knew a guy in the first year of uni who sweared that KH3 should've followed the command-style gameplay of BBS, which he thought was superior.
Honestly, Nomura really just needs to put actual writers in charge story-wise and put the KH2 team back in charge gameplay-wise.
That team doesn't exist anymore.
When they were going to make Versus 13, Tokyo Team (Nomura's personal team that made KH1-KH2) was basically wrung dry and spread out by Square Enix Management for other projects like building the Luminous Engine.
The god damn director for KH1 was put into codding!
@@DGenHero the kh 1 director Was nomura too
Nomura is the onelyon who knews the lore of kh. He has a writersteam now that helps him but he will always write the final draft
THIS RIGHT HERE
Ever since the release of kh3 this video could not be more relevant.
This video became relevant again thanks to KH3. God damn, such a disappointing ending to a saga.
Great game in my opinion, and I had a few tears dropped, but that ending was actually angering.
Master Vidxad 58 Now that I think about it, this game -storywise- was bound to fail. Complex as fuck plot of 6 other games that are closely tied into does not help at all and whoever the writer and director of the game series is just so bad. Like seriously. It’s not good.
@@diiii_mond the point is that All the exciting stuff happened at the end and it mostly seemed random. We should have gotten back way earlier but still in a weakened position after all the years and darkness getting a hand on her. Then get before the last few worlds ventus back which could have introduced vanitas to sora and pals. Roxas could have been earlier put into the story if they clashed with xion earlier and pull xion out of the organization. Making the replacement members useful since the seekers of darkness lost one member and Terra I am fine with his moment in the final battle
@@stashallemagne4488 That was the most convoluted paragraph I have ever read. Please! GRAMMAR
@@Vampiric_Kai not native english speaker.
I think the change in gameplay you're complaining about isn't so much a "turning point" so much as it is a symptom of the KH series appearing exclusively on portables post-KH2. Was Chain of Memories a turning point? Of course not, the game just happened to be on GBA so it had to play completely differently. Nobody was expecting KH2 to have card combat after that. I think the same principle is in play here.
Days and Re:Coded were DS games, they never had a chance of emulating what could be done on PS2, so they tried other approaches for those games. Again, no lasting impression on the direction of the series, just doing what was appropriate for the games' platform.
With BBS and DDD on systems with more graphical fidelity, they COULD have taken made a more classic approach to the games and have them more closely resemble the originals, but consider how these games are structured. Both require playing through the game with multiple characters. The command deck helps to build up a repertoire of spells and abilities in a shorter amount of time than it takes in KH 1 & 2 , which is a good thing because no one character's storyline is all that long, and you have to start your progression all over when playing another character.
Your concerns over the story, badly designed bosses and changed mechanics are still valid, but I don't think you can look at the design of all these games made for portables and assume that they effect the direction KH3 is heading.
And yet BBS 0.2, a game made specifically for the console, feels and plays very similarly to BBS and DDD. Extremely clunky controls, horrible boss design, etc.
+Bl00dyBizkitz
Hey, at least it has 2's MP Charge system. I can say that's a step above BbS -also I like BbS but I don't like the command deck system either-
Bl00dyBizkitz I wouldn't say bosses suffer from similar situations like in BBS. Staggering enemies seems to be more common in 0.2 for example, and I'd say the issue with this is more that there's not much in this system atm. KH3 looks much more polished and full of much more content to use to deal with enemies. on top of that Sora and his style looks much smoother in play in KH3 compared to Aqua. 0.2 was definitely an improvement over BBS but it was clear they were trying to mix the two styles of gameplay too much.KH2 mechanics don't work in BBS design(though 3D felt less floaty and punishing like BBS)
And now we all see what direction KH3 was heading hahaha
@@Bl00dyBizkitz I agree, and Birth by Sleep really has no excuse. It was originally a PS2 game, and it was nearly done until it was put on hiatus and then finished on the PSP.
10:11 It's like poetry, its sort of, they rhyme.
Xehanort is the key to all this.
J a r J a r I s T h e K e y To A l l T h i s
I couldn't agree more man, especially about KH1 having the better story. KH2 has the best combat system, but KH1 did its story so well.
Oh the cringe dialogue and voice acting of kh1
@@LuffyxNamiisathing That's pretty common for video games of that era. 90's and early 00's video game voice acting wasn't the best. KH1 at the very least did bring back many of the iconic Disney actors to reprise their roles (Alice and Wendy even being voiced by the same woman who played them over 50 years ago as a kid) so by early 00's video game voice acting standards it was actually pretty good.
Birth By Sleep came out in 2010 yet still has a lot of the KH original actors being really stilted and awkward outside of Hamill and Nimoy really, while the Disney actors still carried the voice acting like they had been since the first game. The quality for video game voice acting drastically improved by 2010 standards but BBS wasn't exactly on the upper end of VA quality for that time where as KH1 was for its era.
im glad somebody finally took this entry down a peg.
Bruh people have been doing that since it got a wider release on the compilations for consoles, DDD too
@@zaqareemalcolm Good. The series deserves better. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like the complaints have mattered at all
Trust me shot locks are more OP than the command deck
birth by sleep is not a bad game by any means, but I think it's understandable why it's both liked and disliked by people. KH1 is my personal favorite, but I still like this game for its gameplay and levels regardless.
I'm in the majority and like KH2 more for its more fleshed out and diverse gameplay. Both are my favorite games of all time.
I haven't heard a single gamer that wasn't a KH fan call this game a "masterpiece." KH fans really put these games up on an imaginary pedestal.
I really don't get why either. Like I get that KH has this certain feel to it but there's no way people are THIS blinded by it. The amount of excuses I've heard to justify this stupid ass plot is unbelievable
@@bevvvy1374 it might be crazy but it's stupidness is enjoyable to me.
Perfectly explains why i never liked BBS better than I could explain why and how overrated it is.
It's not overrated, especially these days, kh2fm is considered the best and bbs one of the worst by most people so idk what you're on about. As for me bbsfm and kh2fm are my 2 favorite kh games, I know the flaws that bbs has but I still enjoy the story, characters and gameplay, yeah some superbosses like MF and Vanitas annoy the hell out of me but I still. I'm not telling you to like the game, you can like or dislike whatever you want, this is just my opinion, I still agree with a lot of the points BB brought up.
The only game I found overrated is kh3, the story of kh have had its share of inconsistency and retcons but the story mostly made sense if you follow the story they're trying to tell and ignore retcons but not only does kh3 break the story more than any other game, but also the characters, a lot of them act different and have completely different motivations like Ansem SoD and Saix (which now a random girl that wasn't mentioned until now plague their minds so they seem like different people) norting doesn't mean anything anymore, power scaling is worse than dbz, keyblades breaking and ordering a new one is 100 times worse than inheritance, the Disney worlds mean even less to the story, the power of waking, the fact that nothing ever ever happens until the end, and Xigbar being Luxu is nonsense, at least him being "half Xehanort" was shown in bbs in a scene so it was there and base on what happened in the story you can put 2 and 2 together.
The gameplay in kh3 can be fun but it eventually bores me to no end and at least in bbs you have to work for better commands but kh3 you start with everything and everything is broken so not much changes from the start all the way to the end, and in the end it makes me realize just how good kh2fm truly was tbh.
@@Rex13013 Do you even know what overrated means? It does not mean bad or popular, it means to have a higher opinion of someone or something than is deserved. And i see this game get plenty of praise higher than its quality. And the story from 1 to 2 was largely consistent, the only thing one could say was inconsistent was the plot twist involving the identities of Ansem and Xehanort, but if you got all 13 ansem reports in 1.5 its all heavily hinted at. 1.5 also introduced nobodies and you even fight Mansex. But I have never gotten around to playing 3 so I cannot comment. But BBS on the whole was just average to me.
@@jagartharn6361 Do you? The people who like BBS acknowledge all the flaws but still find it fun or that 2fm has the better combat but they still like BBS, not to mention have you ever seen anyone who rate BBS higher than 1fm and 2fm? And yeah people might rate BBS almost as high as 1fm and 2fm but looking at the other games is no wonder why, Recoded is fine but is but is bogged down with other unnecessary gameplay styles and mini games, I like reCoM but the card system isn't for everyone plus it has itself of flaws, DDD is a little bit of an improvement compared to BBS combat wise and the tweaks they did to commands but again is bogged down by gimmicks like the drop system, and dream eaters which your abilities are now tied to so you have no choice but to mess with them plus flowmotion is broken on top of the same flaws BBS has when it comes to everything else, and Days has a lot but I'm just gonna summarize it and say the panel system is annoying.
BBS is at least stable throughout and you really notice the flaws once you get to the superbosses. The other one I find little overrated is 1fm tbh, because you can't really say anything bad about it without people saying you're wrong disliking it, a lot of people even put it higher than 2fm for some reason, which is fine I guess I don't really see it but that's their opinion, but I'm pretty sure I'm still getting crap from people for comments I left in multiple kh game rankings videos where I put BBS higher than 1fm because *IMO* I found BBS to be more fun to replay because I'm not a fan of the world traversal, gummi ship synthesis nor some of the combat in 1fm, but this is more of my opinion.
I love this video more than life itself.
Ayyyy, Jacob's here!
21:48 Hey! That's you!
were u even a fan of BBS
I thought you said the gameplay took a dive in kh2 but found good footing in bbs and 3d? Change of heart? :P
Yo! Never thought I'd see you here.
Where are the KH2 LP videos?
The bbs combat system was fun when you played as ventus without any commands. You felt very in control with reversals, blocks and counters and how fast he moves
I need a 10 hour version of the finger wiggle montage
loved this video, but I wish you discussed the lack of meaningful exploration in every game after KH1.
but the exploration in kh 1 wasn't all that good and didn't add that much. I liked some of the exploration in DDD, its the best in my opinion.
GerstnerBoi agreed. Also the kh1 platforming was cancerous.
I never said the platforming was good, but it provided meaningful exploration and an actual feeling of adventure that shallow rooms with different color pallets in 2 failed to do.
Fidelio 2 had no exploration, but it was much much prettier, and they learned from their mistakes since. Even with kh2fm, the cavern of remembrance is one of the best areas in the series, with puzzle-solving, smooth platforming, challenging enemies and interesting room design. Dream Drop Distance has the best Traverse Town with a TON of explorable space, and Birth by Sleep's Disney Town is pretty awesome too. The other handheld games didn't have this most likely because of hardware limitations.
Linacanin Mathis They do, at least in Final Mix. The growth abilities become fundamental for maneuvering the powerful post-game boss fights, including Data Roxas and Lingering Will. Not to mention how you were able to collect more puzzle piece items as you progressed in leveling your drive forms. And this movement was a lot more fluid
This is why i'm wary about KH3 because Osaka team
At the very least, I appreciate the sentiment you left with at the epilogue. Especially the remark of "I would never tell you that you played the game the wrong way." This is what has irritated me the most out of most people who rag on BBS gameplay while praising KH2's is that they somehow think they are objectively right when in reality, it is all an opinion. Even if you provide reasons for your opinion, it is still just an opinion. So I appreciate that at the very least you seem to understand that.
Here's my two cents though. The reason why critics (and myself) say that BBS is not a button masher in the way that KH2 was is that BBS encouraged you to create and experiment with various commands in your comment deck. Yes, you were always pressing triangle, but it was with a specific purpose to select a very specific attack. The problem with KH1, and KH2 (and is a reoccuring problem with 0.2 and from the trailers I've seen of KH3) is that there are many attacks that you really can't choose to select. A lot of attacks like Ars Arcanum, Sonic Blade, and other really cool attacks are opened up seemingly at completely random occurrences in those games, whereas in BBS/DDD it is an active choice to select those attacks. This more than anything is why I find the Command Deck to be far more engaging than KH1 and KH2's combat.
I will admit that after watching several videos about KH2, there is a lot more to the system than what might seem on the surface... but the problem is that KH2 does nothing to encourage you to dig deeper, nor does it incentivize you to really experiment. You can literally win the game by jumping, spamming X to attack, and then pressing triangle for the reaction command. The game even encourages this behavior in the 1000 Heartless army battle where you can literally win that entire battle without getting a single scratch simply by spamming the triangle button. It also heavily discouraged you to really use magic because if you ever healed or used a limit, it would deplete your entire MP bar (again, something I'm not fond of returning in 0.2 and KH3). By causing "cure" or limits to deplete all your MP, you're not discouraging players from using "cure" too much or from using too many limits, you're punishing them by making any other magic spell inaccessible.
This is another reason why I found the system in BBS to be much better because every single skill simply reloaded, which prevented spamming. Obviously in your video you showed that you can still find ways to spam if you choose to level up the speed of your command bars, but you do honestly have to actively work on that in order to really get it to level up that quickly. In fact, judging from your footage it looks like your command deck really didn't reload that quickly until you were of a high enough level to be in the secret episode in Final Mix. Regardless, those seem to be more the exception rather than the norm. Whereas with KH2, if I see that both limits and Cure take up all my MP and the base spells for Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, etc. are really not that good, why in the world would I ever choose to even bother with the other spells? Sure some of those spells get really good later in the game, but at that point it is too late because the game already ingrains in your head, "Other magic spells are useless, just use limits and Cure."
If it wasn't for TH-cam videos, I never would have even known about the exploits that you can make with BBS/DDD nor would I have known that KH2 (at least Final Mix) has deeper mechanics that make the game more interesting, and... to be honest, I don't see that as a good thing. If you need to really look deep down and go out of your way to find exploits to "prove" why you think a certain battle system sucks, then maybe the flaws of that said game are really not as big of a deal as you all claim they are. And then when referring to KH2, if the game itself fails to encourage me as the player to look deeper into the game in order to find gameplay mechanics that actually make the game enjoyable, then I'm more inclined to believe that the "deeper mechanics" are more like happy accidents than anything else.
To give some more context, I had about 4 friends in High School and all 5 of us owned PSP's and got Birth by Sleep at the same time. We would often play at the school library and play multiplayer or even just play singleplayer and just observe how the other player played. And what amazed me was how all of us had unique strategies and used different commands/command decks in order to win our battles. Neither strategy was necessarily better than the other, but they all provided different solutions and each gave this sense of "player choice" - that every player can play the game however they wanted to. However, whenever all of us talked about our experience with KH2, it was always the same. All of us all played KH2 in the exact same way - just spamming X, spamming reaction command, jumping, and healing occasionally. And that is because KH2, though it may have some deeper mechanics, never once encourages you to experiment with them or discover them - at all. BBS on the other hand, welcomed it and encouraged it.
TLDR: While KH2 might have some mechanics that are deeper than what's on the surface level, I feel that the game does a poor job at encouraging players to really experiment and discover any of these deeper mechanics, whereas I feel BBS has constantly encouraged experimentation and learning all the mechanics (yes, I'm aware of the secret bosses as you've mentioned in this video, but the issue I take with this video is that you label them as the standard when in reality they are really the exception, not the rule - most of the game does a good job at encouraging you to meld together, discover, and use new commands)
I know this was a long comment, but I hope that this helps you to understand better as to why people do love Birth by Sleep and consider it to be more fun than KH2. (especially because the reasoning you gave in the video for why you think we enjoy it came across as very shallow and honestly an uneducated view as to why people actually enjoy it). If you happen to read this entire comment, I do appreciate you taking the time for it.
C4DNerd I’d go a step farther and say II actively discourages experimentation. Sure there’s deep and interesting mechanics, but they’re buried under a lot of crap. You have 3 resources in battle with MP, Drive, and items. MP is linked to magic and limits while Drive is linked to Forms and Summons. This system is well balanced and locks your powerful abilities behind trade offs. The catch comes in going into the game blind. Cure drains all of your MP, and on early play throughs, most players will be hit a lot, and MP recharges slowly in the first half of the game. Sure items help alleviate that, but that require putting money/synth materials into them or farming, and they’re finite for the encounter and drain other resources to restock out of battle. Being in MP recharge locks out magic and limits, unless you spam ethers/elixirs. Using limits while still learning the bosses locks you out of Cure. Limits tend to be poorly explained by the game as well, requiring experimentation for each one/a guide to figure out, and leave you limited after use. Sure once you get the hang of the ins and outs of the system and the fights it’s excellent, but before that it feels extremely limiting, especially in higher difficulties. At least MP recharges fast and automatically.
The Drive mechanics are so much worse in that regard. Sure they’re extremely well balanced when figured out (barring certain exploits), but figuring them out is painful. First, Drive takes quite awhile to fill up without recoveries (which thankfully were buffed in FM, it was so much worse in vanilla). Next, Drive Forms need to be leveled to unlock movement abilities. 3 of the 5 don’t level in boss fights, and that’s assuming you ever learn how to get Final Form. At the very least, Drive Forms have their abilities on the ability menu and are intuitive to figure out (barring maybe how to level them, I don’t remember if that was described in game). Unfortunately, we then run into Anti Form, which is never explained and discourages spamming Forms... which need to be leveled for abilities. The boss fight multiplier doesn’t help thing. And leveling the Forms can be a massive pain if you don’t know the two important exploits in the Drive refill (exiting a world or entering a party member area while in a Form or using a Summon) and using the Form out of battle to avoid Anti Form. And then there are Summons, which the game does a piss poor job at explaining. Leveling them is a pain if you don’t use an exploit, and most of their mechanics are up to the player to figure out, while using a valuable resource in the Drive Gauge, which is also used for Forms that offer much more clear benefits in combat and long term (with the movement abilities).
A minor gripe I have is going through all the menus. You have one menu for equipment and items. Another menu to customize party members and set magic shortcuts. And a third menu for for abilities. Changing up what build I’m using felt needlessly cumbersome.
Birth By Sleep on the other hand actively encourages experimentation. There are 3 different characters with enough differences to encourage different builds on each. Fusing commands is a key form of progression and the ability system encourages trying new things. The commands need to be leveled for fusion, so it encourages using them as well (without discouraging another mechanic). D-Links and Shotlocks are very clear on how they work. Each character has four decks for quickly swapping around builds. It supports both fast and efficient play styles and grinding out early game. Multiplayer also encourages screwing around with the system.
Yes, KHIIFM has the better combat system after learning the ins and outs. Yes, BBS can be broken pretty easily. However, I’d say BBS does a much better job at presenting itself and actually encouraging the player to use the different systems while IIFM does the opposite. I think that part of the design of both games is often overlooked and important to take into consideration, especially when most people don’t play through each game 5+ times.
@@Skywardflare758 When I was younger, I avoided using magic at all in KH2 because I knew if I ran out of MP I couldn't use cure and I'd be fucked. At the same time, once I got Magnega and Thundega in BBS and the Magic haste crap all the way leveled my command deck was literally magnega thundega in alternating order for as man slots as I had, with like a curega at the end for safety. And that's all I did. So I think the hard truth of the matter is both you and biscuits is right. KH2 might have the better battle system, but it is by no means new user friendly, and BBS is so simple and easily exploitable that it can turn the whole thing completely mindless.
@@Skywardflare758 It just seems like you and OP do not like experimenting until it becomes a forced part of the gameplay because you were too lazy to figure out what stuff does.
Drives are insanely simple to learn. Use them in a fight with random heartless, use all your shit, and see what happens. Pretty simple. Same with magic and even summons. It's not that the game discouraged you, it's just that you were too lazy because you thought the game was too easy. I played on critical and a lot of the times during boss fights, I had to figure out the timings of attacks to reflect/block, manage my MP bar as to use magic but also be able to use Cure with the last sliver of MP, and see if drives could help me out in some circumstances.
Sure you could criticize KH2 for being easy enough on normal to let you be able to mash x through the game, but it's a children's game. What do you expect when you play on normal.
The way I look at it, is that KH2 gives you these cool toys to play with, and let's you do what you want with them. It's akin to BBS, but it doesn't force it down your throat. Learning what stuff did on my own was a part of the fun.
@@bevvvy1374 As someone who loves kh2's drives, I actually would say that the game does discourage you from trying to power-level them. because using them did use a precious resource that was not easy to come by (such as mp) I was encouraged to separate training my drive forms from my normal gameplay. I like training binges, so this was fine for me. However, anyone whom doesn't like going in circles to farm enemies near a resource restoration point (many jRPGs have this sort of grind) is liable to simply skip out on KH2's drives, or at least leveling them up.
Meanwhile drives in BBS progressed in ways that encouraged people to experiment with the combos leading into the drives, as doing so gave you better finishing moves and didn't require you to switch from an "I am exploring this world" mode into a "I am going in circles to power-level my new underleveled abilities" mode.
I personally beat more of KH2's superbosses, since me and my brother would trade off in facing them I have not beaten all of them myself, and BBS didn't encourage me to even try to find all of it's post-game and so I wasn't rewarded for any mastery of BBS's battle system in the way I was for KH1 and KH2.
In fact a mechanic I sorely missed in KH2 was the Tech Exp gained for using smart or tricky moves in battle, if KH2 had Tech points I think I would have tried to learn more of the summon and magic systems before I got to power-gaming type replays, heck if antiform wasn't a reward for my brother and I, I don't think we would have ever found out about final form w/o a guide. We both wish they had given a way to simply go into antiform after gaining final form...
Though I am quite glad the Tech Points did a great job teaching us about the tempo of combat and enabled us to find the counterpoints for enemy attack patterns. Because without learning that in KH1, KH2 would have been unable to teach us the finer points of combat. (outside of pure trial and error)
So yes, KH2 was the better game overall, but the things BBS did right were among the things KH2 did wrong. I hope kh3 does a good job integrating BBS's ability system, KH3D's flowmotion system, KH1's counter/technique system and KH2's attack combo system.
Balloonra, balloonra, balloonra, cure, balloonra. Such deep gameplay choices.
Damn, the Frozen joke was nearly prophetic
Watching this again after beating KH3, made me realize why it ended up being disappointing and not living up to that immense hype
You know it even hurts more when Birth By Sleep was contemplated as KH3 when 2FM happened
ЩΉIƬΣ ƧПΛKΣ i know what you mean! i remember when the BBS “trailer” or the “teaser” came out and we all thought it was going to be KH3.... boy we were wrong
I agree with a lot of what you said; but here's something from my perspective.
I kind of like that Sora's not the chosen wielder of 'the one and only Keyblade' and instead the Chosen wielder of one of many Keyblades - that only chose him out of necessity at first. Because it humanises him, he's just a kid who got given this amazing power. I was just a Kid, witnessing this other kid defeat all my childhood villains! Fucking sick, sign me the fuck up!
And, when the time comes, Riku takes the power back. And then, because he's kind and whatnot the Keyblade does indeed choose him - you earn it rather than having bestowed upon you. He just gets chosen later in the game.
(Also, side note: Am I the only person to enjoy 358/2 Days? ahaha)
I used to like Days but I've gradually been losing interest in it. I still want to 100% it (even though some challenges are a total fucking nightmare), but if I asked myself that now...having to mash A while doing chip damage to a boss...I would sadly have to say not really.
D MAS The days video game isn't that great, but the days manga is amazing. Favorite part of the story in the series if I'm being honest.
I still have yet to read the mangas though it's on my to-do list.
D MAS Most of them are okay, but they're weird. They add A LOT of jokes and even plot points that aren't in the game (like a bald vexen clone that secretly escaped castle oblivion. Wut?)
But it also makes the cast more expressive, which helps characters like roxas, xion, and kairi since they aren't just sitting there with a thousand yard stare all the time.
D MAS
Believe me, I 100% Days. Challenges were a pain in the butt, and the very last thing I had to finish.
Nothing really denies that Sora is a special case. There's certainly implication, but Ven's heart has been stated to have been dormant until the end of Days and I don't really think that Ven's heart had much to do with Riku's Keyblade jumping ship to Sora. The very first game also says without ambiguity that the Keyblade Sora received was supposed to be Riku's. Sora did, in fact, prove that he was more worthy than Riku.
The Keyblade Riku received by the time The World That Never Was rolled around was one that Riku had to earn by himself. *Presumably*. It's not really clear how the cosmology of the inheritance ceremony works, but Riku lost his original Keyblade and I like to think that the universe wouldn't just give him a second one out of hand.
Though I totally agree that the fact that everybody and their mother having a Keyblade cheapens it being very special in the first place and that the implications that Sora in particular isn't very special is troubling. I enjoyed BbS' story, honestly. I don't have any *major* qualms with it. But I do miss the Keyblade feeling like it was something special.
Oh, but the whether or not Xemnas has a Keyblade thing is horse shit and one of the most glaring issues that I have with BbS.
As for the gameplay, all that shit sounds about right. The dominant strategy is strong and the Cookie Clicker analogy was hilarious.
I do really appreciate how levelly you talked about things. It's pretty clear that you hate the game, but I never felt like you were belittling me for enjoying it, even before your epilogue, and that's pretty rare. So thanks for that.
Tbh since the very first game we're shown the keyblade isn't as special as we're lead on to believe since we see Riku/Ansem using their own keyblade which functions exactly the same as a normal keyblade and is destroyed as soon as it touches Sora's heart.
right. maybe i'm bias here since i just got into the series recently and knew that tons of people would have a keyblade, but in kh1 it was clear that sora wasn't the only person to wield a keyblade. mickey had one, and yeah riku-ansem just made/summoned one to fight sora with, implying that maybe the keyblade isn't so special@@Deadflower20xx
i think xemnas not wielding a keyblade has to do with the fact to wield a keyblade you have to have a strong heart. Nobodies are born without hearts but can regrow one through connections. i think roxas is able to wield a keyblade because the combination of being sora's Nobody, and his connection and friendship with axel and xion let him grow a heart strong enough to wield a keyblade. in kh3 after defeating xemnas he says "my first surge of emotion in years." this implies that xemnas only had a small bit of a heart for a majority of his (non)exist stance, thus he was not able to wield a keyblade
Am I REALLY the only one that ACTUALLY liked Birth by Sleep as an origin story for the series (no not KH Chi) and thought that it added more to the overall lore, and explained some things in Kh1&2, and made me actually give more of a dam to the story of the series??? I could understand that the characters were kinda flat but jeez...
Yes? Yes I am??? Guess not, I'll show myself out...
Ven is understandable as he’s only got four years worth of memories and those four years have only been spent sheltered at the Land of Departure, where Eraqus has deliberately kept him sheltered. The only characters he’s spent any decent amount of time around are Terra and Aqua, who aren’t very worldly either, and Ven defining his happiness through his friendships with them is perfectly logical. It’s like the infamous ice cream line in 358/2 Days, where the context is that Roxas doesn’t have the emotional understanding to equate friendship with more than just sitting on the station tower with Axel and Xion eating ice cream. If you look at Ven’s storylines he’s most reacting to events rather than initiating them (the Disney shenanigans don’t help either, as all three end up making the Disney plot happen most of the time).
Terra gets pinned for being a bad judge of character, but in half the situations he finds himself in Ven would make the same choice, as would Aqua. What doesn’t help either is that we’re seeing the characters in crisis mode, events aren’t business as usual. Kingdom Hearts 2 showed us in the prologue what Roxas believed his normal life to be, so that when things take a turn for the weird we too are confused and disoriented. By seeing Roxas happily settle into the station tower ice cream routine with Axel and Xion we feel when things start spiraling and the tragic end to 358/2 Days draws nearer, making the freak out Roxas has even more emotional. Birth by Sleep gives us only a handful of interactions, all relevant to the plot in the opening sequence and in flashbacks to show what the characters risk and end up losing. It’s a big example of show don’t tell, and our emotional investment just isn’t as invested as it is for groups like Sora/Riku/Kairi or Roxas/Xion/Axel because we haven’t been able to invest in what we want to see restored.
We’re told they’re close friends, but because the events of the game set them at odds for plot reasons and the breakdown of their friendship is a major plot point, we have only the aforementioned opening sequence and flashbacks to show this. Sora, Riku and Kairi building and assembling supplies for the raft didn’t contribute to anything plotwise, but established the character dynamics between them as well as foreshadowing later plot beats. It induces plot induced stupidity for the sake of justifying the storyline and the three campaign play feature. Aqua could suggest she and Ven look for Terra together, as they meet up in Enchanted Dominion and Radiant Garden, but each time Aqua’s insistence that Ven go home splits them apart again.
Big rant ahead about BBS.
Honestly when you boil everything down the only fault of Birth by Sleep is being an unnecessary prequel to a game that doesn't need it with unnecessary characters. BBS's story and character arcs are screwed because you have three characters sharing the screen time of one character. Instead of playing as one fully fleshed out protagonist you play as three half-pints (HAHAHAHA) and it really takes a whopping lot out of each character's potential.
You play through one character's storyline as the roller-coaster of foreboding, of what all the actions and failings of the characters are going to result in finally comes as the Keyblade Graveyard.
The Keyblade Graveyard is definitely the highlight of BBS as this is THE MOMENT the game prepares you for... and it is... OK.
You have your cool ''I wanted to be an action anime'' moments with some awkward transitions in-between but the result is the same. The ending, the climax, the fin final finale finish just doesn't live up to all the hype and butter-oil the game has been massaging you with.
What really sucks is the realization you'll have to do this, ride this rollercoaster of momentary thrill and lasting disappointment, THREE TIMES.
Two to finish the other two guys' stories, and one more so you can torture yourself further as Aqua one more time in case your inner masochist didn't get its fill.
Even with KH3 done and Xehanort saga concluded I wish I hadn't completed BBS. All it gave me was an interest in characters which even their own creator doesn't care that much about.
A dissapointing ride. I can safely say the only reason I'm somewhat attached to these characters is because I wasted so much time playing as them and not because of their quality writing or acting.
Which prequel is more unnecessary, Birth by Sleep or χ?
@@casualvanilla I'd say both are equally unnecessary. I've lost interest in KH as a whole thanks to remaining out of touch with the series for so long and not coming into contact with anything KH related.
If not for seeing your comment by chance, I would have forgotten about KH completely. BBS was a trip. I played it mostly out of boredom and having nothing else to play at the time, but I did enjoy bits and pieces here and there. KH has this unique vibe about it thanks to having Disney characters and Final Fantasy elements, which I'm not gonna lie... did rub off on me.
I don't much care what happens to the series anymore, though. I've lost interest in the story after KH3.
I dunno, man. The previous games set up quite a few questions that you needed to go to the past to find answers to.
@@hyypio764 Like what?
@@bevvvy1374 Excluding KH2FM's content like Lingering Will and the secret ending:
What were the Organization looking for in Castle Oblivion?
Who were the other Keyblade wielders Xigbar was talking about?
How is Kairi able to use a Keyblade?
What happened to Xehanort before he became Ansem's apprentice?
How did Pete come to serve Maleficent?
Why is Sora able to use multiple Keyblades?
14:15 Considering that Goofy was the first character to get a close up during the Let-It-Go part in KH3, this is kinda prophetic.
NGL I liked the bbs story an felt the friendship, then again I was like 8.
Sry peeps, Nomura is a hack. He should have kept just making those cool drawings for the sprite based Final Fantasies.
Yes he cares about things looking cool first and goes back to try and make sense of it later which explains everything in Kingdom Hearts better than and ultima book or whatever.
Screw you
He really should stick to designs. Yeah the characters can look ridiculous but he has some genuinely awesome designs for them. As a writer, like, an actual story writer? He's what most people would call "fanfic" level, not to insult fanfics, but Nomura really comes off as having little experience.
not his fault gamers today can't pay attention to deep stories in jrpgs
@@astrocyborgmaybe niggas would pay attention if he'd throw goodass plot in the game
You totally called let it go in KH3
While BBS is definitely where the series begins going absolutely wild with the plot, I don't think it is BBS' fault. Nothing about it really feels like Nomura writing himself into a wall or anything wild like that. It tells a compelling and tragic personal tragedy and gives us a great background to some things that go on in KH1 and KH2. The problem really does come from some scenes feeling rushed or half-hearted which can make the story on paper stronger than the story you physically witness occur and how DDD really decided to lean into time travel super fucking hard.
I also just really feel like outside of BBS's wonky sense of progression and some issues like stagger it is a fine game. The main game is a wonderful experience with solid setpieces and what feels like a perfect run time. It incorporates Disney arguably better than any game outside of maybe KH1 and has protagonists I actually appreciate beyond being a bland avatar like Sora. The battle system's issues don't have a ton of time to grate on a player for the 8-10 hour run time of a single character's story and each character does feel unique enough to feel fun and fresh for that initial runtime. If the command melding system was better fleshed out (maybe gating certain abilites from being meldable until certain parts of the story/endgame to give better progression), abilities were handled in a better way and things like animation cancels were implemented on more moves I think BBS would be a strong contender for the best in the franchise. Sure it has its issues but I think a lot of hardcore KH2 fans like to forget that for 99% of players that game is just mash x to win and abuse how broken limits, magnet and reflect are. What depth it has is entirely useless to anyone but speedrunners and challenge playthroughs as even the endgame fights can be leveled past and mashed in pretty successfully with even basic knowledge of how revenge works. I love KH1 and KH2 but they are entirely too gassed up.
True. I hate DDD to be honest
I love BBS so much, but we all got to recognize that all you speaked was on point, great vid
Great video, but I want to clear up a few misconceptions. The keyblade isn't passed down from person to person. The inheritance ceremony is a requirement to wield the keyblade. Wielding simply means being able to use it in battle like Kairi did in kh2. The inheritance ceremony is kinda like a security measure so that not anyone can steal the keyblade and use it.
But to have your own keyblade a keyblade has to choose you. At first the keyblade sora has initially chose riku but then riku turned to darkness and his heart became weaker so it went to sora instead. After Riku learned to accept and control the darkness alongside light, another keyblade deemed him worthy and chose him, which is way to dawn.
The game sets it up like there is only 1 keyblade per realm, but it is never actually said there is 1 keyblade for the realm of light. The keyblades are rare in the first game because there isn't suitable keyblade wielders. Nearly all of the keyblade wielders pereished in the keyblade war and it appears Eraqus, Yensid and Master Xehanort are the last few keyblade masters who can train pupils.
TL;DR To have your own keyblade you need to fulfill two requirements: Have the inheritance ceremony performed, and have a keyblade choose you. Just having the inheritance ceremony doesn't mean you a guaranteed to have a keyblade or that a keyblade is given to you.
PS: The reason why kairi had her own keyblade in Kh2 was because Riku actually split his keyblade in two and gave kairi one to use. Since Kairi had the inheritance ceremony when she was a kid, she was able to use the keyblade riku gave her to fight. But it isn't her keyblade, its rikus. How did riku just pull out two keyblades out of nowhere? He doesn't have two keyblades, he just has one but he splits it which is the same thing sora does when he goes into drive forms.
No, Sora can wield 2 keyblades because of Ven's heart. It's not him splitting it. Where did that idea come from?
I agree with @SapphireShield . Is it ever explicitly stated in game that Riku split his keyblade to give one to Kairi?
I'd hate to say this, but the fact that you had to write a mini-essay to explain inconsistencies and odd moments in the story kind of proves Bl00dyBizkitz's point about what the KH story has become.
I love Birth By Sleep, it's my favorite in the series. Crazy how people can have such different experiences with the same media.
All very good points. My only gripe is you got Days's release date wrong. Days came out before Birth by Sleep did. In my opinion, 358/2 Days was the last decent game in the series. It's FAR from perfect, but I'd take it over the 2010s KH games. Definitely.
While 358/2 Days is a terrible game, it at least feels in line with the three games that precede it. Tonally, it's more or less like Kingdom Hearts II.
@@casualvanilla I agree. The gameplay isn't all that great, but the presentation and tone are still in line with what came before, as you said.
Re:Coded, while being the most unnecessary game, had way better combos than BBS
Fun fact: square actually told Nomura to make the kh story complicated cause "people wouldn't like the simple story" or something like that
Great Job Nomura……🤦🏻♂️
Watching this video after playing Kingdom Hearts 3 makes me sad. I wish Osaka could see this video and rethink their battle systems in future games.
As someone who always felt like something was off about BBS without knowing why, this video has been incredibly useful in helping me understand what it was about it that made it less "magical" than KH1 and KH2 (and reassuring me that it wasn't just because i was losing the ability to have fun as i grew up), so thank you for this video.
My first kh game was 358/2 days. Then BBS. Bbs gets an incredibly unfair amount of hate. I played kh1 and 2 in the following years and was left with a meh feeling.
OMG, SAME!! I played vanilla KH2 when I was about six years old, and that was the only KH game I had played at the time. Then, ten years later, I played KH1 for the first time, and replayed KH2 right after. I was so happy and loved them so much, that I wanted to marathon finish the entire series of games that same summer. But when I played BBS and DDD, I felt like I was having less and less fun. I thought it was just me, because I couldn't see any reason why I shouldn't have liked BBS and DDD as much as KH1 and 2, I couldn't put my finger on it, and I kept trying to delude myself into thinking that they were just as fun. I kept thinking that it was ME that was the problem. This video was honestly so freeing for me, and also kind of therapeutic in a sense.
22:17 After playing KH3, this statement did NOT age well lmao, since I came out of that game even MORE confused than before.
KH's plot is really something.
Once you start asking questions, it starts to peel out how incknsiatent things are and how inckmpetent at writjg Nomura is.
Good video though. BBS has truly a bad plot overall.
'incknsiatent'
*incompetent
6 years later still such a good video
I know I’m a little late to the video.
But if I was Xemnas, I’d much prefer Lightsabers that I can manipulate to shoot thousands of lasers, over a keyblade.
the super saiyan comparison is so acurate
There's more than one way to obtain a keyblade. You can obtain one by inheriting the power to wield one, yes, but you CAN actually be chosen to wield a keyblade by the keyblade. The keyblade, in essence, is more like different aspects of the same being. All keyblades are the same keyblade, but the different manifestations come about due to the personalities and hearts of the different wielders or even the different aspects of different worlds/realms. It's similar to spirituality, in how everyone is connected to Source, or the Godforce. Everyone in the KH universe can use a keyblade, but not everybody is CHOSEN to wield one because of how their heart is.
Sora's keyblade is the key for the Realm of Light. Originally, Riku was supposed to have that version of the keyblade. I think the keyblade tested both RIku and Sora to see which keyblade(s) would belong to who. I personally feel, if the keyblade was sentient, it chose Sora when it did on Destiny Islands because RIku went to Hollow Bastion (were the baddies were) and Sora ended up someplace safer where the power of the keyblade wouldn't be abused. Both had the power to use a keyblade, so when the Key went with Riku at the end of KH1, I think it was just trying to test both Sora and Riku's heart (mainly) because both grew to a level where they potentially could defeat the threat at hand by the end of the game-- unlike at the beginning. I think Riku was supposed to get the Realm of Twilight's keyblade once he started using the dark powers because the Realm of Light's keyblade is more for a heart of light. This brings me to conclude that where Sora passed his test, and gained the Kingdom Key as it's rightful owner, Riku lost his test and the ability to use a keyblade altogether until the end of Chain of Memories. (Also, the dark key in the Ansem/Riku fight was artificial and not a real one. It was constructed rather than obtained.)
According to DDD Riku doesn't have a keyblade of twilight, they don't exist. Only keyblades of light, darkness and heart and both Sora and Riku have keyblades of light.
Terra went from being the most badass boss in Sora's story, to eating the most shit from the superbosses in his own damn story.
That would be poetic. Instead it's just sad.
As a huge fan of Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep's story. I agree with most your points here.
Fantastic video, homie..!
And to add, you're extremely funny too..! 😂
Mh... I disagree on some parts, while I agree on others.
I agree:
- Pretty much everything you've said on the first KH and why it's amazing. The first KH had a great atmosphere, never seen after, while the others were really just "Disney Shenanigans". It is the common fate of a lot of first chapters in videogames.
- The poor representation of BbS main characters. I might excuse Terra a tiiiny bit cause BbS is supposed to be Star Wars 2.0, but just a bit.I might love you just for pointing out the so fake friendship of the BbS trio.
- The "fact checking" and "KH3 will explaining everything" of fans; since when a KH game answered EVERYTHING, and didn't just add more questions?
- On the lore I'm torn. As a first KH lover dare I say as much as you, I agree on lots of things, but I love the convoluted, general lore. What can I say.
- While I completely agree on BbS gameplay, I gotta point out most of KH II bosses required no thinking as well. Truly, 90% of the challenge was brought by the Final Mix bosses.
I disagree:
- I'm a bit confused. You started praising KH until II, saying the handhelds complicated things, then you said KH II complicated and expanded things.
If you meant it did only to an acceptable point... well... I remember when KH II was out. A LOT of people got the story wrong. Sure, it seems so crystal clear now, after all these years, maybe comparing it to relatively new chapters like 3D it's a bit unfair.
If you ask me.
- About the Keyblade... mh. I personally think it's more that Nomura has really poor explanation skills (no joke, some of his interviews are madness) than bad story changes. I think the Keyblade still decide on its own, and that the "new" chosen ones are cool (Kairi and Lea aside); it's just not explained correctly. I blame fans confusion on the narrative choices, not the game itself. But it's just tastes here.
Sad truth about "Why changing KH1?":
- Cause it worked. Look at how many people think KH II and BbS were perfect masterpieces. Look at how many think that the first was even an "accident" and not as good as the others. Mindlessly easy, as you said.
With all that being said, let me apologize for the gigantic comment, compliment on the video, it was really funny and complete, and let me tell you that I respect you and your views. Also, I'm a newbie KH speedrunner that watched a lot of your videos.
Cheers.
90% of the challenge??? what
Marluxia is easy
Zexion is Easy
Vexen is easy
Lexeaus is soo easy
the ONLY challenges were larxene roxas and The Enigmatic soldier
..
DemoLegends This... doesn't really disprove what I said.
My point was that only the Final Mix bosses were somewhat hard and forced you to think.
Compared to the ones in the original version.
Darkos Overlord Xaldin could one shot you on proud, Xigbar could three shot from chaeged lasers on proud, what is your point?
DemoLegends That's ridicolous damage, not devious pattern that requires you to think.
Xaldin is reflex, Xigbar... those charged shots are also the way to a Trigger Commands.
Vanitas Sentiment can oneshot you, but the way to beat him is still just dodge roll and use Mine Zone.
Which is pretty simple.
Heck, some common enemies can oneshot at Proud, those that means they're super hard and requires thought?
uh yes... I've been playing CM/Lvl 1 since 2009 and i learned mashing X or O in ps2 fm will NOT work
Even in low level standard or Proud in the event of getting one shotted you can't just not think and go in... it requires thought 2fm added 2 REAL challenging bosses Roxas and Terraa who shouldn't count cause he is a Super boss, kinda the point..
Marluxia-guard, hit, RC, combo, full combo, hit
so on so forth
This video is amazing, it's a bit sad though when you've played KH3 and have experienced what a massive disappointment it is.
Nomura learned nothing along the way.
Oh, fuck off. KH3 did everything right in my opinion, it tried to finish the story in the best way it could, and I personally feel like it did that well, and the gameplay was a perfect mix of all that the series had done. I agree that KH2 has more solid gameplay overall, but people act like KH3 is the worst game in the series because THEY expected things that were never promised in the first place, like critical mode and secret bosses,
(which were added in ReMind btw) but somehow that’s the games fault that they had false expectations.
And to that I say, fuck off.
The effort you used in this video surely is something great. I don't agree with a lot of stuff you said here, but I think that, after almost two years, you won't be here to listen what I should say (BbS in particular); I'll leave you a like for the work you did, even if I don't agree with most of the things you said. I hope you'll answer me and listen to what I have to say, but I know everyone has a life full of things and problems that are such great that I already know that you won't be here to read this. Still, thank you for this video, everything you had to say, you did it perfectly
Something that you got wrong in this video is the part about sora only being able so use the keyblade because of ventus, sora was chosen by the keyblade in kh1 and then in kh2 he learned to use a second keyblade, that one is indeed because of ventus, but the first one that made sora special did choose him so that part of the lore hasn't changed.
I really thought you were a KH fanboy, but that's not the case. I enjoyed the video so much, your arguments were pretty solid.
@The_Pot_Dragon people like to lick the balls of people who are in the top, smh
@The_Pot_Dragon while I do agree that mostly all his points referring to kh bbs are very good, most of his arguments about the plot are purely misconception of his(probably due to his hierarchy)
@The_Pot_Dragon it is lol
I love KKBBS, but I haven't realized all this. This video was great at looking at the whole series in a different way.
awh what.. aquas voice actress is my favorite. I thought she did an excellent job.
I just figured that keyblades chose their users, and inheriting was just like “this heart is able to wield one” and basically a recommendation lmao
BEST REAL OPINION EVER!!!! and sad to say that KH3 is even worse ☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠☠
nah, cope
Worse story than BBS but better combat
lol watching this waiting for my AP to recharge. My life is kh
AP? You mean MP?
D MAS AP would be from "Kingdom Hearts Unchained X". (Chi)
It's the mobile phone game. It takes AP to play missions.
Oh, of course...
-sorry i only play real kh games-
dayum.mp4
D MAS Daammnn
The points in this video are very valid.
KH2 has the best gameplay, while KH1 has the best story, KH3 should have been the best of both those games, but guess that would have required effort
About their friendship, to me it's just like Roxas, Xion and Axel. They've been trained their whole life on this island (except for Ven but he can't remember what happend before) . They were taught that defending the Light is most important and as you can see, all 3 of them want(ed) to be keyblade masters. To them friendship is talking about their strengh, being like they are and stuff. Remember when Roxas said "Who else will I have ice cream with?"? Its because to him eating ice cream with people he liked was friendship.
Sora, Riku, Kairi and Axel/Lea all had kind of a life we know. Going to school, having parents, talking to random people...
Of course they have a larger personality.
Otherwise, the video was good.
I think Kingdom Hearts is an example on how NOT to do world building. It expands in ways that can't possibly have been planned or envisioned from the start and does so at the expense of the hero, their travels and the imideate world(s) around the hero. T
Kingdom Hearts III fixed the Disney worlds issue not only by tying them into the plot again but ALSO having a few of the characters tell off the protagonist for that world. Seriously, seeing Woody tell a Young Xehanort that "I guess nobody has ever loved you." OR Mike and Sulley STRAIGHT up 'be gone' to Vanitas is hysterical!
THANK YOU for pointing out that the first Kingdom Hearts had more depth and meat to its story. I completely agree. I also say that the first game is better than II because the stakes are much higher. If anything, Birth by Sleep made me appreciate Sora even more because you find out the Keyblade originally wasn't supposed to be for him, thus making him the underdog and yet, because of who he is as a person, he ultimately was deemed worthy.
ok i believe you
Which game did YOU play? Because KH3 didnt give a fuck about disney worlds, did you play Frozen?
@@harp-692 i think the comment was older than kh3 was though
@@1010otep but he spoke from woody?
@@harp-692 that was Disney themselves sabotaging the world, not Square Enix
The biggest bummer for me has to be the origin of Disney Worlds. They said that all was swallowed in darkness until the light of children's hearts restored the worlds. I loved that idea. It implies that the children rebuilt the worlds from their innocence and that they manifested as Disney Worlds because that's what inspires kids! (And the occasional young at heart teens that explains FF characters in the mix lol)
But now it's actually because of the dumb foretellers who you don't care about and their stupid future book
And yeah, the way the completely ruined the story of The Keyblade is an absolute shame....
It's both funny and sad how much relatively small changes would have improved the game.
I really think KH3 has a chance to pick up the slack in terms of its individual story and immersion. Not just saying that out of a place of hope. I think the series is set up for Sora to have the feeling of a working force against him from the get-go. Dream Drop Distance kinda felt that way from Young Xehanort, but obviously it fell extremely flat with the Disney Worlds. Some of the worst feeling of immersion in Disney Worlds in the series by far. But in Kingdom Hearts 3, we know Master Xehanort is our biggest enemy, and we know that he's going to be trying to string us along to lead us into battle. As long as they make sure to give Master Xehanort (and his vessels) a purpose in the Disney Worlds and do their best to incorporate the Disney Worlds into the story, then I think Square has their best opportunity since KH1 to create a feeling of the Disney Worlds being meaningful. If they make the whole game feel like the second half of KH2, with various Org. members showing up in different worlds, then I think KH3's story has potential to be great. As you said, one can only hope.
Aged like milk tbh
Alas, it was not so.
@@Deadflower20xx what? It's the compete opposite that happened.
i think the IDEA of the command deck is absolutely fantastic if nothing else. its basically an advancement on final fantasy’s atb (active time battle) system that instead of waiting on individual turns, you weight on indivigual actions within those turns. I think the idea itself has a lot of potential if nothing else. The thing with the atb system though was that it usually still had mp costs and item usages you had to balance.
Terra was built different man, guy was so pissed that his friends may have been killed and his body taken from him, his hatred for xehonort was so great that it attached itself to his armor and beat the memories out of that white haired piece of shit
This is one of the best analysis/critiques of Kingdom Hearts I've seen in a while. I was just looking through your uploads for another good run, and ended up with something soooo much better.