Did Victorian Prisons Actually Try To Reform Prisoners? | Secrets From The Clink | Timeline
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2021
- The second of a two-part programme in which celebrities embark on an emotional journey to discover how their ancestors coped with serving time in Victorian prisons. Strictly Come Dancing judge Len Goodman is shocked to learn his great-great-grandfather was assaulted by his own son, who was convicted and subjected to hard labour building docks and quarrying for stone.
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One thing I love about British history is the record keeping. Everything is pretty much written down to the exact second it happened. That’s marvelous.
The USA 🇺🇸 has tens of thousands of people in prison for debt in 2021... it's not called "debtors prison" but it is, in effect, the same idea.
Another wonderful idea that the US prison system has is private "for profit" prisons. More tens of thousands of American people are effectively slaves that work for private enterprise and receive almost nothing for their labours - the money for that labour goes to the prison.
We don't need to look 150 years into our past to see horrific injustice... just look to the USA 🇺🇸.
Exactly. Still going on.
The record-keeping is amazing.
Loved this part 2! So impressed by Mary Reibey who I have to gain complete ignorance of such an amazing Australian woman on our $20 note!! Really love connecting people with these people who spent time in prison. Want more!!!
::'::k mummies ñ
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The debtor's prisons are outrageous.
But transportation - we can solve the homeless problem! Pick an Alaskan island, anyone ingenious enough to escape deserves their freedom.
Nobody conspired against 'poor old Henry' when he tried to kill his entire family.
I think the core problem of habitual offenders is a three-part one. Firstly there's the issue of far too many things being criminalized, secondly is the issue of people who choose to prey on their fellows, and thirdly is the problem of rehabilitation (if that's even possible for some).
The survivors should be honoured more than Victorian Era... Miserable conditions where one would loose appetite to live, still many of them managed to get out of it and few of them like Mary achieved many things even with the punishment of transportation... I feel that Victorian Era was crucial in form of documents, architecture, industries but still cruel for prisoners and people where colonial system existed.
Here in the States, the modern day equivalency of debtors prison is the delinquent child support consequence. If a father is hauled up before aJudge in a "Family Court" established exclusively for the purpose of calculating and enforcing financial support of a child, no matter what he future misfortunes may be he can find himself quickly in arrears and the first punitive step is for the suspension of his Driver's license. Making his prospects of gainful employment even more difficult. Jail time shortly follows, and any income tax refunds are seized by the Court as are any unrelated legal windfalls published in the legal journals or class action lawsuit proceeds.
The thinking behind closed doors is that the father's family will somehow pool their resources and pay the debt, however, that cheery outcome isn't always possible, and the father is utterly destroyed. Along with an arrest and Jail record for future disadvantage.
I don't know if they reformed, but they sure made people not want to come back
That's usually referred to as 'the individual deterrent ' and has been proven to be utterly useless if other issues such as mental health care and education/training are addressed. The 'general deterrent ' refers to the idea that locking this person up will deter others. Another premise that has been countered by real research.
Send all the non violent prisoners to college or a trade school. Pay tuition and dorm, food , etc. way cheaper than actual prisons. Then you get a productive member of society for your investment. If they refuse to go and learn, toss them in a cell and leave them there until they’re ready to start learning again.
So that second cell do not have any cost? And, law obedient people must pay everything themselves? What about you, ready to pay my vacation? Because if not, I will finance my vacation wirh crime?
This. Right. Here.
@@doncarlodivargas5497 You're sort of missing the point.
We pay for it *already* by keeping them in prison. This plan actually *saves* the People's money.
@@teabearchurchill5600 - so, while others must pay for their education, all I have to do is commit a crime and I get the same education for free?
@@doncarlodivargas5497 Still missing the point.
WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THEM.
Why *not* pay (substantially) less to encourage their being more productive citizens.
I sometimes wonder if any prison has really been about rehabilitation. It seems like a great way for politicians to make political points. I understand that some people can't be saved but many can.
People who dont follow social norms are often rejected so strongly, I'm not surprised the body breaks down and dies from poor treatment (my body is weak from decades of ignoring my pains, to obey orders, as my obedience helped me avoid punishments). I'm glad I dont live in the past times, but presently, most of society seems to be against me (I'm autistic). The oppression of odd people still exists in places where diversity of humanity is frowned upon. This show has helped me better understand the motivations behind some oppressive mannerisms that seek to destroy my life. How humbling to know, my life could be worse. How dare I not follow societal norms? Comes naturally to me. I'm not trying to be bad, I'm trying to avoid pain, and I continue on my journey to figure out how to live the best life I can, without becoming passive. I need my autonomy in my life, or I have no life. Persevere.
No.
Most interesting
Glad you feel sorry for Henry - so what are you doing for the homeless, the ones society forgets?
Interesting
Stonehenge.. if the Druids came back, they would only wonder why we didn't fix it up
Nah they'd just start burning people again
The horrors 🧐
Great family stories. Artful indeed.
Mary was a character.
This system needs bringing back for bankers, bureaucrat's and politician's! I find it funny it takes a hundred years for some of these people to figure out "Life is so unfair." They are still kicking down the average Joe. ALways remember YOU are the carbon they want to neutralize! DAVOS decrees you WILL eat bugs, live in a tiny house, own nothing and be happy. Just like the happy serf of yesteryear.
What does Len think quarry workers had to put up with ?
Ban prisons and use death penalties for violent offender's
Where is episode 1..?
Dr. James Burroughs was Elvis' alias for hotels.
Short answer: No.
Ex-cons still get no or minimal after care in most places
No prisons reform their prisoners. That's not their purpose. Never has been and never will be.
Edit: there may be 1 or 2 Scandinavian exceptions to this, credit where it's due.
21st century prisons don't try to reform prisoners. Do you think that 19th century prisons did??
Do modern prisons try to reform people? No. Next question
Hey guys what I can say that in postSoviet Ukraine 🇺🇦 much things like school uniform points n whole system was built upon Victorian standards of workhouses and jails.
Jails and prisons, It's a money machine.
Best not to be the one wasting 🕐 and life there.
Enough said.
I'd rather be in jail than be homeless
@Albert Spencer, I'm guessing you're American
@@cassieoz1702 I'm guessin' your single.😂
@@redgreen6436 Both are poor choices my friend.😬
@@albertspencer5264 hmm, interested in your evidence/indicator for that. In defence of my comment, the biggest and most commonly discussed "prison = money making and slave labour" is the USA and my experience of TH-cam commentors us that Americans are the most likely to forget (or not even realise) that the rest of the world exists (or at least, doesn't do things the way they do).
C'est bien de s'émouvoir sur ces cas mais la plupart des pauvres essayaient de rester honnêtes et éviter la prison donc cela était possible. Même maintenant dans la même famille certains se construisent et d'autres se marginalisent alors que de part et d'autre ils avaient tous la même chance, donc nous sommes responsables de nos actes et les punitions ne sont pas anormales car sans punition personne ne ferait l'effort d'être honnête et tous auraient plus facile de laisser des dettes et de voler et de ne pas travailler
They reformed a whole country with prisoners ahah
Prisons don't rehabilitate anyone
'Justice' usually means retribution/revenge. We should stop tarting it up as something more noble
Justice isn't supposed to be pretty.
@@bobbysalkeld2634 pretty has nothing to do with it. 'Justice' is a word used to sanitise and excuse the punishment system. Much loved by smug types who cheat on their taxes, drive after drinking, exceed speed limits and steal from their employers. But apparently they consider themselves a different breed
you are absolutely correct... hence the term "social justice" - which means nothing of what the words appear to mean.
Some of that is called" becoming whip smart"!The more things change, the more they stay the same in some ways!In the Bible ,Lot had incest with his daughters and the bloodlines from that became makers of jewelery,musicians, wanderers.In other words artists,which the Israelites spent centuries trying to eradicate! This bias against the other, most times from the rich, comes also from religion of a certain brand!
Mary was amazing
"hawhd laybah"
Katie Price should be in debtors prison.
Horse-stealing - stepping stone to a wonderful life!
Makes one follow the law and think before you want to ignore rules.
Reminds me of the famous guy who died in prison recently because many lost their money with his ponzy scheme. I would think it makes copy cats think twice.
There will always be greedy people who think they'll do it better and not get caught. It'll happen again and again.
That MIGHT work for premeditated crime but most criminals think they're smarter than the ones who got caught, or study what mistakes the caught ones made. It has absolutely effect on impulsive crimes
In other words, Murica, in the 21st century, uses the British prison system, from the 19th century.
"It wasn't a crime." It was. That's why they were in prison.
reformation is impossible
Evidence?
@@cassieoz1702 my direct experience as a lawyer for 16 years
@@valarauka6611 ah, experience is not evidence. If that's your belief, it's likely confirmation bias is at play
@@cassieoz1702 if you worked in the justice system you would understand the reality. hippie attitudes do not stop criminals, only fear of punishment.
@@valarauka6611 i DO work in the 'corrections' system and have all my life. I know a great many people who have made good lives after their release. Fear of punishment has no effect on impulsive crime, lower intellect or many other sections of the prison population. Just like bashing kids doesn't make them behave better. The problem with defining offenders as a different breed of humanity is that's it's used as a smokescreen for behaving very badly towards them
Slave work
If mere poverty causes crime, why didn't the period between October 1929 and September 1939 have the highest crime rates in history?
The 14 year old crossed the line. They strung him up 😆
I clicked to view a video about Victorian Prisons and NOT to watch two women cry. Here I thought American women were simply bags of emotion...