TOYOTA LAND CRUISER AXLE-WIDTH CORRECTION. Is it Really needed? Cheaper alternatives? | 4xOverland
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2022
- The 95mm track difference between front and rear axles in all Land Cruiser 70-series causes handing issues. How bad are they really? What fix alternatives are available?
#70-series #overlanding #landcruiser
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Toyota needed a wider front axle to enable them to fit the V8 engine. They made the front wider, but didn't make the back wider, because the rear bodywork remained the same as it was before. If they had had widened the back axle, it would been too wide for the existing bodywork at the back. Which would have meant changing the body width (which would have meant changing the entire body, roof etc.), or adding wheel flares. Add-on wheel flares do not work well in the less developed parts of the world (an extremely important market for Toyota and NGOs) because they'd quickly be torn off and then the cars would be not be roadworthy with back tyres sticking out. It was an economical decision. It was either do this, or cancel all 70--series production altogether. Which at the time, I am told, was considered. I say, be grateful we get the 70-series at all!
But didnýt they fix the axle issue on the single cab ute?
Doesn’t really make sense for Australia’s ever so popular cab chassis, but it’s a half decent excuse I’ll give ‘em that!
So they should have cancelled it or recognised they had half made a vehicle and reflect it in the price.
@@froggymicb You obviously don't own one. I'm very happy to pay the price because of what the rest of it offers.
@@4xoverland what exactly does it offer? Poor fuel economy. Poor performance. Poor technology. Rich price.
What gets me is that so much of the 79 needs upgrades or money to make it more liveable or comfortable. For the price it’s crazy.
100%! So basically…… you can either afford one or you can’t.
@@Phil_McAvity for me it’s more about economics, can you get a comparable vehicle for the same or less. I love love love the 79 but would I buy one…probably not.
Can never spend too much for that tape deck
Simple:
2022 Range Rover or Range Sport are super comfortable, but their are not meant to be used to cross Africa on their own, with no support vehicle (thought they would be able to). I would definitely not cross Africa on a Range Rover on my own. For starters, you wouldn't be able to find spare tyres easily...
I would have no hesitation in crossing Africa on my own with a well equipped Toyota Land Cruiser 70 Series, just like so many people do. Easy to repair, easy to find replacement parts, and so on...
You are so right!! That's why the 80 series reigns supreme!
Do it. The track width difference is an abomination. Chase it out of town with pitchforks and torches!
If you wish to understand why Toyota didn't widen the back axle for the 70-series, this will inform you: th-cam.com/video/TBxIQapB-3Y/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the detailed run down on the issue. Neg. 25 offset in the rear is exactly what I have just done with my 76 Series. It cost me all of $200. Now the rear tyres still sit flush factory flares, improves handling, looks good, and all legal. I agree Multidrive is the best value option for full track correction, but for about $6,500 (fitted and certified) vs. $200, I'm more than happy with the offset solution for now.
Hi James. You're running zero offset on the front ? Steelies I presume? (king D hole Sunrasia kind of thing)? Using the zero offset front as a spare for the rear also?
@@joshinthecity exactly right! Dynamic Sunrasia, -25 in rear and 0 for the front and spare. Very happy with it.
@@jamesh7395 Have you noticed the extra wearing on the rear bearings as he mentioned in his video ? I’ve been back and forth on the idea of different offsets.
@@shreddjunkii4526 Hey mate, to be fair I have only just had the new -25 wheels fitted, so it's too early for me to say personally. However, I am very cautious, and I did a lot of research before going with it. Many other owners have fitted -25 or -50, and even those running -50 for over 100,000 kms have reported very little issue. And if it did happen, I think re-packing the bearings is not the end of the world. Hope it helps!
@@jamesh7395 perfect cheeses mate
Your a bloody genius, you have answered all my questions I’ve been asking my self about buying a 79 thank you Andrew
Andrew. Great and logical explanation that even someone with limited technical knowledge can understand. “Makes total sense”👍
excellent explanation of where the problem and why it matters !
Thanks for the info. It's changed my mind about spacers, and off-sets. I do notice the tail wag when towing the 3 tonne caravan and drive accordingly.
Absolutely essential if you're modifying the rest of the truck. Can't spend all that money and leave the biggest problem it has untouched. I did not regret a single dollar of getting it sorted.
Andrew, a great video. Very informative and educational, one of the best you’ve done in sometime!. Keep up the good work. 👍🏾
Great non biased clip mate, running a 2021 bloopy and running track correction rear wheels. I carry 2 spares, 1 on the rear and a STD on the roof. I do worry about my rear bearings but have upd service intervals to make sure when going on remote trips I don't have a failure. It has worked great without any issues and kept me to my budg for now.
Thanks for another in-depth episode.
A good article Andrew, well worth listening to.
Thank you for making this video.
Well done Andrew. Very detailed advice. Just need to ad that with different offset rims tyre rotation gets expensive when they need to be stripped and refitted every time. I know, I've done it!
Marty from Perth
It is refreshing to find people that recognise the narrow rear axle impedes vehicle stability.
I can't concur that the 78 series is oblivious to the incredible unstable stability issue, as I overheard a chap one day describe driving his, I've never heard it explained so well, "it's like driving an old boat up the river, constantly correcting your direction", if you've heard better share it here.
Now as for the 76, speaking as a previous owner, it was noticeably affected, infact I would be obliged to say it is my belief the shorter wheel base would be inheritibly worse as it exaggerates the twitching due to the shorter wheelbase. I'm sorry to say, but advising people otherwise is totally unresponsible.
I found my 76 intolerable in the soft sands of K'gari (Fraser Is.) You'd almost say the rear end bucked, not twitched, also I'll go as far as saying it was outright dangerous when towing, never stable, constantly correcting, get court not concentrating for a moment and you truly had your hands full correcting it, especially down hill.
Discussion with other 76 series owners, "no we don't have that issue", they lived in denial whilst owning a 76, but ask them when they truly got sick of living in denial and updated the 76 to something else, and they'd say you were right, it did wonder, didn't it.
For some time I truly pondered going coil / wide track, but early on conversions were incredibly expensive and I just couldn't justify outlaying the big dollars $12K hoping it would resolve the issue.
In retrospect, turns out it may have been a good thing to have done but I choose a live axle Y61 Patrol as a replacement to have it's superior handling at all times, especially when towing, but I desperately miss the grunt and note of that diesel V8.
Before selecting the Y61 I suggested to the wife I'd take a look at the new 76 with the higher ratio 5th gear as the early ones like mine absolutely screamed and gussled fuel at 2500rpm doing 100klms per hour whereas the new one just rumbled at 1900rpm in comparison and then convert the rear to coil / wide track.
My wife's response, "you buy one of them again and you'll be touring on your own", now as tempting that may be for some, my darling wife is a lovely lady whom I wish to tour with, hence the Y61.
Well, there's my two bobs worth, do with it as you wish, but don't be misled, the 76 handles poorly and 78, well why the hell did you widen the rear if it's not an issue.
Another precise episode for which I thank you Andrew.
A topic of interest, which you may be unaware.
Some decades ago Jeep made a similar mistake but conversely. The late 50s early 60s saw the emergence of Jeep1ton utes/pick-ups. In their wisdom, Jeep decided to market vehicles with a far wider rear axle than the front. Under normal conditions the vehicles performed to expectations and proved to be OK. However, when the heavens opened in the wet season, Jeeps were completely hopeless in mud and slippery conditions. The front axle would plough through but the rear would fishtail incessantly from left to right searching for the ruts. I speak from experience, I was born and raised in the colonies.
I agree with everything you covered here. I drove many 79s and 76s in both soft sand and thick mud and it’s awful. But what I would really like to know is when not if these vehicles go with a V6 with the front axle width come back in again to again match the back.
Well said 💯. What ive found is the front wanders. Its wider than the standard 4x4. It feels like the back searching (which it will on virgin soil) but not on an existing track. The front rises left and right. Searching. In my mind. Will i change the rear? Nope.
Great video, very good weighing of the options 👍🏼
I think you have reached the point where honesty is an expected standard. Any supplier approach you with free stuff need to be very sure of themselves
Very precise technical statements. Love it.
Very Informative Andrew, Thanks.
4XO. One of the best presentations from this YT Channel concerning Oz legality and simple to understand consumer review into a Toyota LC76/77/78/79 ! Keep improving your content towards end client advertisers, TH-cam as the customer and the viewers who are the product in this age of digital media ? V.
great info and explanation. real value in this content
After putting in a GVM upgrade to my 78 from Lovells, installed by APE suspension in Wangara I've had no problems with wondering or searching on road or sand, I don't have a rear axle correction, no off set.🤙
Very good explanation and simple to understand
I owned a 2011 Land Cruiser 76 for eleven years. I particularly felt the difference in axle length when in the dunes of the Namib (Solitaire to Walvis Bay) and in places where there is thick(ish) sand, like Khaudum and Mabuasehube. I found it quite tiring to be constantly trying to correct the 'faulty' tracking sensation of the vehicle. I actually became quite irritated as well. It contributed towards my decision to sell the vehicle. On one occasion when racing down the compacted side of a dune, into a bowl and up the other side of a compacted dune wall, I was required to go as fast as I could to get my 96kw LC up the other side. The consequence of two different widths of the axle at a speed of about 120-140km/h felt quite insecure (I hesitate to use the word dangerous but that is how it subjectively felt at the time). If I had my time again with my Land Cruiser 76, I would definitely correct the axle-width discrepancy - I believe it will enhance ownership enjoyment.
that was a pleasure to listen to . very good info. i dont have a land cruzer i have a hilux. but great to learn new things thanks.
You are pretty niche, but man you never half ass your technical revues. Your book on 4wd driving was worth the price many times over. You gave me the confidence and knowledge to get off the pavement. (2004 Jeep Wrangler TJ, rear auto-lockers, 4.0L straight 6, 2 1/2" lift, 33" tires) Thx Anthony.
Great video. Thanks Andrew 👍🏻
Have a 2013 79 , 180,000ks+, over half was towing a single axle 2.5T off-road caravan with 330kg ball down weight. 79 has basic Dobinsons 3750kg GVM upgrade and 2” lift. With the caravan in tow I have done GCR 5 times, GRR twice, Bungle Bungles twice(yes with caravan) Lorella Springs Savannah Way, Oodnadatta and Strzelecki thru Innamincka etc all towing. Don’t do much loose sand beach stuff. 265x75xR16 D697 Bridgestone AT,s. Have never needed matching wheel base , larger tyres or greater than 2” lift. Unless you are a super hardcore off-roading or want the latest and greatest I can see no need at all.
How'd you rate the dobinsons GVM upgrade? Tossing up between them, TT, and ARB (OME)
@@6jsm9 I am on my second set of shocks but 1000s of Ks corrugated dirt roads at 80kph will do that. Not the softest ride , but I have about 700kg static load with canopy and 2x80L water and fuel tanks, then add 330kg ball download, the 79 is not a comfortable car anyways . But more importantly it’s still there , just keep greasing the shackles. It does what I wanted it to do , and it’s been on since new. Oh, I have the standard Dobinsons yellow shocks that come with the kit, not the fancy adjustable or remote reservoir type.
You might want to revisit what is said around 16:50. Full-floating axles as fitted to 70-Series Land Cruisers, are so much better for heavy duty off-road applications than semi-floating axles used in lesser vehicles (where the bearings are lubricated with differential oil). Not only in terms of load-carrying capacity and reliability but also ease of trailside repairs.
I think what Andrew means is that if the bearings were getting hot due to wheel spacers or too much offset, having oil would help to cool them more and have them last longer. Oil is better at transferring heat than the grease. In proper form where the bearings are loaded evenly, what you say is correct.
@@Splitface2811 This is debatable - oil might generally be better for high speed, high temperature applications but if the wheel bearings are unevenly loaded due to excessive wheel spacing, you are still going to end up with the same problem - no way any amount of oil will help. Another option which might be considered, is to opt for a high viscosity polyurea grease formulated for higher operating temperature and load-carrying capability.
@@philipjooste9075 I don't think Andrew was saying that oil would eliminate the issues caused by the excessive wheel spacing. Just that he was saying that it might not be quite as bad as wheel bearings in grease.
You can have oil lubricated bearings on a full floating axle. It used to be the common method.
Full floating axles are infinitely better. Look at the incredible number of videos withJeep axle failures for this reason. What do heavy trucks use? I wonder why.
Hey Andrew - this 'searching' can be quite dangerous on icy roads/surfaces. It's a short-cut to the rear end sliding out to one side which can lead to anything from unpredictable handling to sliding into on-coming traffic.
I don't know that this is an issue where you currently live and plan to take the vehicle, but if I had one here in northern Idaho, I'd be seriously looking to correct the issue.
19:08 "... as part of a coil spring perver, conversion" _priceless!_
Lovely Ep thank you
Thanks for your ever interesting commentary and great videography. Best regards from The Valey Of A Thousand Hills, KwaZulu Natal.
Andrew, can you make a video on the Ineos Grenadier Configurator. Like if you where buy a platform for a overland build! Thanks
Long term review: Have been running -55 offest rims on my 79 for 260,000km now. (Very heavily laden vehicle with alot of heavy towing and 4x4 work) At 200,000km rear wheel bearings were replaced for the first time to get the vehicle ready for a long cape york trip, but they were still in good servicable order without any evidence of being run with excessive heat or wear. The good condition may be due to regular maintenance.
We recently went back to a -25 on the rear to get the vehicle fully legal again and it still handles OK in the sand but not as good as the corrected width. Good cheap alternative for those who cant afford the tru tracker
If I had one, this is what I would do. Don't understand why a full wheel offset is not legal while this 100mm small rear track is, strange.
Here at my work, an outback station I have my personal 76 (track corrected with jmacx coils), a stock vdj79 tray back and a 2001 6 cylinder 79 series with narrow track front and rear. It obviously gives me a regular comparison, and I agree that it’s not a deal breaker but it definitely affects the vehicle in soft ground and towing at speed, especially with the 76 (before conversion) on wet roads was terrible. Any 70 series I own would get converted.
Thanx a lot for visiting our country Namibia 🇳🇦 😀 😊
I have a 2008 78 series Troopy in Aus and a 2009 76 series here in NZ. What I really noticed was that after fitting a set of rear wheel spacers to the Troopy it made a huge difference when towing the caravan, it just felt better. The spacers came with the Troopy and being as I only noticed the difference when towing, not off road, and also not being legal, I removed them and left them in a shed somewhere. I have found no issues where the 76 is lacking in NZ. I however only tow a car trailer.
Cool, I can vouch for the -25 as a reasonable legal fix, that's what we ran on our 2013 troopy & it did sort out 99% of the rears moving around. Ended up running 17×8 0 offset up the front & 17×9 -25 at the rear with 305/70r17s was pretty much right on the limits legally for offsets & tire size but it worked
could you have two spears, different offsets and so doing a tire rotation per set?
Hope that make sense?
Nice work andrew
My Nissan Patrol leaf-rear ute (South Africa) also has the narrower rear axle. I've run 45mm rear wheel spacers on each side since new (no legal issue here), on 33's and 35's, and now, 360 000km later i'm still on Original Wheel Bearings (15 years later), and my vehicle works hard every single day, in all conditions. Not making any particular point, just more of a comparative comment for those interested, as its not exclusive to the LC (the rear axle width issue), however, i'm gobsmacked at the rate at which LC wheel bearings seem to sh!t the bed.
Thank you for your information
Very interesting and insightful of something that has always made me cringe when I see one coming towards me or follow!
I’m just glad I drive 3 different LandRovers 1977 Series 3 Swb Petrol,1999 Defender 110 Td5 and a D4 V8 and happy I do as I’ve always been satisfied with this brand over all the other brands of 4 wds and yes I have driven them on and off road.
Glad I have subscribed to your channel I find your content knowledge great I look forward to seeing more!
Thanks Andrew. Brilliant video!!!
I have a 76 series and do a fair bit of soft sand driving. I will try the offset rim idea and see how much difference it makes.
Will it be possible to put wheels that are negatively offset on the front to help even more or will they scrub?
@@joshbevan9400 possible mate. There's not a heap of room inside after putting 33s on.
Very informative, thank you 🙏
Great review - thanks. I have a 76 series and lived with the standard track for a couple of years before deciding to correct it. In my case I installed the multi-drive full replacement housing as I also have a gvm upgrade. Quality of the housing is excellent. The change over was worth it in my opinion - more stable on road, completely different (better) on damp soft sand that holds tracks and no more bucking off the road when easing to the side of single lane sealed roads to allow incoming traffic to pass by. If I didn't drive on poor roads and sandy tracks I probably wouldn't have invested in the track correction. Each to their own!
Viking, Im keen to have an offline chat about your conversion as I'm in the process of looking at a GVM upgrade and track correction for our 76. Looked at Pedders (3780kg) most others 3600kg and Multidrive 3520kg.
@@tonybalm5576 if you post contact details on your channel we can discuss offline. For the time being - I understand max standard axle load for a 76 in Aust is 3660 kg and that is why most GVM upgrades are rated to that load. In other words, the factory front and rear axle ratings apply. No idea what Pedders do to go higher - but they might increase the factory load rating of one or both axles. My GVM upgrade was the Lovells kit - I'm very happy with it. Others will have different preferences of GVM option. Track correction housings - there are a few options in Australia. For me, multidrive was very well made, with a clear warranty and not a massive weight increase. They also carry a good supply of replacement axles - just in case. Being based on an OEM housing, the multidrive option didn't result in a significant loss of rear lift which could occur if your replacement housing increases the distance between the axle centre and spring mounting face (ie raises the axle higher into the wheel arch). I hope that helps.
When it comes to handling i once heard that when the rear rocks side to side they say its fishtailing which also is a disadvantage when doing sand driving, so i guess its really a must to upgrade the rear track width to improve its handling to avoid correcting it endlessly hey..... Love the Big Land Cruiser especially the Big 76
I drove a work vehicle ,with illegal spacers, but it carried heavy loads 90%,off road, no problems all the years I drove it , When I mean off road , no tracks at all. So in my case no problems at all. 🤠🇦🇺
Thanks good advice - you could of course go back to the original Defender which has the correct track widths and coil springs and run the axles as they were originally designed with the diff oil lubricating the wheel bearings ....
Brilliant thanks!
After doing 11000ks through Central Qld, the NT, SA, Vic and NSW, i have organised to have a 79 diff with the tru track fitted to my 2013 76series. I tow a 3 Tonne van and found that driving on narrow roads which road trains use, the 76 could not make up its mind in which track to travel, which caused the rear to move around, which in turn caused the van to move around. Plus am using the 79 diff as part of a gvm upgrade. Within.
Thanks for the video. Is the solar power going into a battery ?
I own a 76 the 70 series is a commercial vehicle designed for work which is what i use it for i wanted reliability as i 100% depend on the vehicle in remote locations.
I hardly notice the split track width if at all but id agree that the wheel base would
compound the issue.
Im glad to hear that the 78 isn't as affected either as im looking to change to a 78 due to the extra space in the back.
As far as the bearing set up being a full floating rear end the same as every truck in production since the 1940s this design is far superior to the single bearing open bath as the axel shaft takes the full load.
Where with the full float on the 70s or a truck the diff housing takes the load reducing axel shaft breakige and bending.
Yes its more work servicing it but its a commercial vehicle not a grocerie getter follow the service intevals and you will never have any issues they are made to last.
G
Its like having a fifth wheel of about 100mm in the middle of the rear. Ive done the full axle on my 76. On and off-road performance significantly better. Without it soft sand a speed can be dangerous imo
Is there space up front to run rims with minus 20 offset with the plus 25mm rears? You are presumably going to buy 4 rims anyway, so no extra cost
I like the way you think Andrew
Thank You for Your English and simple explanation of complex things. Greetings from Moldova!
"On the cheap" - can we go with -25 offset rear and (approx) +25 offset front?
Next step from all the options you have mentioned… What is a decent choice for wheel arches to cover the wider wheel track at the rear?
enjoy watching your videos, you are doing very high quality work. I would like to ask, which year model is the best quality, useful, durable Land Cruiser in your opinion?
I would like to know what you think of the buds customs rear track fix? There very affordable and Aussie made!
I remember my '74 GMC Jimmy with a 106" wheelbase I believe, had the rear axle narrower than the front axle. I never knew why. I did have some steering issues. I am curious now if this was the problem.
Narrow rear helps alot for giving you a tighter turning ratio.
If you wish to understand why Toyota didn't widen the back axle for the 70-series, this will inform you: th-cam.com/video/TBxIQapB-3Y/w-d-xo.html
Toyota need to watch your videos!!
Seemed to be all the rage to have narrow track rear on road vehicles years ago. MK1/2 Jack's and Citroens in particular. My 78 Jeep Cherokee chief was the same yet the pickups had a wider rear track than the front.... Look at Morgan, they had such a narrow rear track they ended up with one wheel at the back🤣 Good job in the solar set up Andrew. Do you get grants for that over in OZ? Think we still get it in the UK but if and when I do it I will go totally off grid and shake off the thieving utility supplies we have. It's only going to get worse with what's going on over here.
Listen to this man.
It is worth pointing out that Multidrive do make a full upgraded/widened/strengthened diff housing, for GVM upgraded( or even not upgraded)70 series landcruisers for about $1500 more than their 'true track' conversion. I have fitted this to my 79 series, is 1000% better than standard.
Very nice video
You can mod your axle to run the diff oil through the bearings i thought. madmatt 4x4 did a clip about it on his bundera.
what battery system are you using on the house to store the sun?
I've never had a Toyota land cruiser so I might be showing my ignorance here. But I'm curious if there are options for doing a rear axle swap the same way the jeep community does. There's dozens of different axle options out there for every vehicle here in the states. Some people do axle swaps to change the gear ratio because it's so much easier than taking the axle apart to change out the gears. Are there known axles that are the correct width and gear ratio that can be dropped right in?
The fourth don't forget the 71 series Andrew, you content is would wide as should be your subject on the vehicles you talk about also.
Why does no one complain on the gu nissan patrol coil front leaf rear pick up with large track difference aswell.
Another option is shave down a 105 rear diff of its coil gear, add leaf spring perches and brake line brackets. The brakes and rest of the 105 parts is identical to 79 series. Magic you have a wide rear diff.
Great explanation!
Was widening part of the wheelbase modification on the Dream Tourer?
yes.
Thanks for another great video. I thought a product like what you have installed would derate the rear axle. The weight of the vehicle is obviously transferred through to the axle housing via the leaf springs through bearings and wheels etc. By pushing the bearings outwards you are increasing the distance to the leaf pack. I’d like to hear your thoughts and if you see that as an issue or the manufacturer sees that as a disadvantage
I agree, you are increasing the lever arm between the bearings and the leaf pack. The bearings will almost certainly need upgrading or be looked at
@@Dave-L-1984 100% agree, that just needs to happen. I'm not sure that engineering sign off happens with all products, or there is a disconnect between what is signed off what gets installed and how it is used
Keep spending money boys. You’re keeping the after market industry rich and Pierre in endorsement heaven 😂😂😂
Basically my OCD would never allow me to buy one and not do the axle upgrade, it would drive me nuts every day just thinking about it until I did it. 😂
Curious what these are actually going for new these days. I've seen the msrp around mid 70k aud. that seems around 54k usd. These days thats not terribly over priced considering how expensive the market has been. I agree for most including me, I'd have a hard time coughing up the money for one. One issue I see is people buy them then winge they cant have coil springs, its got crappy seats etc.. I mean, nobody else makes anything like it. It's about as old school robust as you can get in 2022. I dig it, and appreciate them for what they are. A nice simple vehicle, with some minor flaws. I think I'd like to see them with a inline 6 turbo again, but those v8s do sound nice. I'd probably buy one state side if they were ever sold new, as it's one of the few vehicles that appeals to my dinosaur side.
Complete agree with the 78s searching, or what feels like "crabbing", on sand or in muddy ruts. And this was in an "old" HZJ78 with the older body style. I believe those old body style HZJ78s also had wider front tracks, just no where near as extreme as the newer ones. My old HJ60 was much nicer to drive in those conditions.
Front track was 15mm wider on the front on a HZJ78 - the HJ60 had the same difference. I had one once and it wandered because I never did the caster correction after lifting the front springs.
It's not needed at all !
I had the 76 and now the 79
It feels great nothing to complain about at all, remember all heavy duty off road trucks have 4 tiers in the back with complete deferent track to the front and they drive even better including military trucks !
In the 79 series it's just 4.5 centimeter on each side, believe me Toyota know their business,
Whilst online pundits need to keep changing items to keep making a living !
The vehicles are perfect as they come out from the factory !
Just go out and enjoy the countryside .
And remember the legend paul Marshall doesn't do this modification nonsense, he just puts on off road tiers and hits the road !
I agree, there is no problems at all. Its a money making, sales scheme
Imagine if Mitsubishi would have done the same mess by narrowing the rear axle... Nobody would ever forgive them!
They would if the rest of the truck was this good.
@@4xoverland :)
A lot FWD road cars have a wider front track. Not an issue on a small hatchback. On a long wheelbase offroader, given the tyre footprint, it makes sense to correct it imo.
Such a annoying issue with the 70 series, and yet we still love them.
The typical thing to do in SA is to just put spacers on. 🙈💀
I like the idea of the offset rims. Neg 25 is definitely a step in the right direction.
Also for anyone else who is wondering we don't have a axle correction option available locally and importing would cost a lot of money. 💸💸💸
I have a few questions about the wider front axle.
What is wider at the front axle?,the axis itself?, or the wheel hubs?
Is the new v8 chassis wider?
Is it because the front wheels hit the wider chassis when steering?
Very well explained sir🍻.
You are fortunate to have said items donated. I would likely never do a mod like this,, primarily due to the cost. We don't need a Engineering sign off here in the States.
Spacers are legal here,
and used by way too many people 😕. I don't condone them either, but obviously the most cost effective approach.
We also don't have the Cruiser models you mentioned. And those beautiful Full Floating rear Axles are rare as hen's teeth here as well.
So,, to wrap this up,
If I had this narrow Axle situation,,
I would use spacers and regularity service/ inspect the bearings.
Just my 2cents.
Cheers 🍻, G. In beautiful Boulder City Nv, USA 🇺🇸
@Gabriel, that is not true in all states. In NJ you don't need to get an engineering sign-off on axle swaps, but spacers are illegal.
@@mrkmdz ,, thanks for the info 👍.
Thank you, Andrew, for the insightful video. If you had to choose between a spacer and doing nothing at all, what would you pick? We are talking about a car in Namibia/Southern Africa.
Well Andrew did say 25mm offset rims is fine (the jury's out) and spacers are illegal. Any wider can destroy the bearings. So nothing at all over a spacer is the answer.
Offset wheel rims,steel or fibreglass ,rubber flares,job done mate ,whaffle not needed now
I'll offer a separate explanation for why manufacturers leaned to narrow rear track width. First very rarely has a manuf made a vehicle based on offroad performance their usage is a by product of noted utility. The intention I've found in some older evaluations was that by having a narrower rear track the amount of trailing axle offset during a turn would be reduced ie say front wheels at 40deg turn angle cover 40' radius the rea would follow a 36' radius ( these are numbers for the sake of argument) had they specifically designed the vehicle for off road travel equal track width would have been a more important feature
Your thoughts on portal axels as a solution to the rear problem.
Overly expensive and unnecessarily complex for a tourer.
i want to buy a j70 or grj 79 or a j79. i want to hav3 axels and a shelf section in the middle and a empty room, or what i call it at the back. how do i start? and do i need a wallet as deep as the mariana trench?
Does this axle adjustment apply to non-V8 70 series? I have a 79 series double cab, 2020, 1HZ I6 engine. I have 16x8 -14 offset rims with LT265/75R16 tires. Can anyone help me figure out if my 79 series I6 has this issue?
Toyota double cab is starting to sound like a better option for me and my family for towing our Enkulu 3. Plug and play. No axels to worry about!
Ay mate! Don’t you think riding the wake of your front end would only lift the rear diff a bit? Every little bit helps
Hi Andrew, Your Troopy's current skinny 16x6 wheels are P20mm offset - not zero offset. What I did was to keep these P20 wheels on the front, and fitted the 42601-60620 Toyota 105series rims to the rear. They are 16x6.5" and zero offset and have the same wheel centres, so it still looks factory. That way I have achieved 40mm of axle correction and my rear tyres still sit within the guards so do not require rear flares. Does that amount make a difference? On sand (such as the Canning and Simpson), like you I found my Troopy flew over the dunes with the 225 skinny tyres and did so better than the two 200 series I travelled with. I also tow a Tvan and also a caravan, and the only improvement is with the heavier caravan on bitumen. On dirt no difference. Been testing this for a couple of years now.
I like to keep my Troopy factory as much as possible and I am concerned that widening the standard axle, and increasing the distance between the U-bolts and the axle face will increase the likelihood of the axle housing breaking at the U-bolts.
Can you please explain to me this in details
Not many other 4x4 vehicles have had this problem, but I can name you two....Both Used by the British and Australian Armies in the 50's and 60's.....These were the Austin K9 and the Commer Q4, Compared to the Bedfords and Internationals of the time these two were nowhere near as good off road, simply because the rear track was slightly thinner than the front, so they had to work harder off road, leading to it being so much easier to get them stuck even on a pretty easy track.
The thing I don’t get about Toyota buyers is their want to buy a car that they then invest huge amounts of money fixing design flaws?! I get there is upgrades and improvements people do to modify their vehicle but stuff like this just annoys me. If Land Rover did this they would be slammed by every media outlet and all the fan boys of other makes… or the dusting air boxes, or the alternator locations in lc200 etc. drives me mental!
Absolutely right. You pay top dollar and your need to change the basic axle…surely it’s not simply a big $ issue for Toyota . Steve 🇦🇺
You are correct, Toyota are overrated. The only thing they actually get right are the engines. Their running gear and design flaws elsewhere are terrible
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Wider front axle to the rear sounds completely wrong. No one else does it.
Toyota do it and it’s just a minor irritation.
Land Rover do it and it’s major design flaw and gets ridiculed.
It always amuses me this comment &!it often comes up. Regarding the rear track correction. I’ve owned a few 79’s (single cabs) and a 78. On the 79’s I did NOT correct it. All up I would have 850,000kn on those two vehicles & one of them I’ve kept in touch with the new owner, it has now 580,000 plus km on it. I towed, I went all over the joint, I mean literally 😂 and I never had an issue. Yup it’s not ideal but hell, talk about a moaning bunch of softies, it’s just not that bad.
Probably the most annoying thing about it is when the rear is hunting between ruts on a steep decline, I mean real steep, well that can make ur heart rate increase occasionally 😂. I never had an issue or damaged the truck or had an accident.
As for the location of the Alternator, I never replaced an alternator. On both 79’s I mucked around & cleaned them up after being in the soup but never had a failure. My 78 I never did that despite having it in the mud.
My next 78 I’m going to put the sealed unit on because I’m chasing higher output & it makes sense imo.
TBH (totally honest), I could buy a Troopy, change it’s suspension, tyres, Snorkle & airbox & travel for 2 decades &!only do routine maintenance & that’s nothing IMO. Everything else like barwork & dual batteries etc, you do with every 4x4 except some of the newer yank things.
I mean in the old days. I use to take my 40 series Troopy thru the desert & up thru the centre to the top end with an esky & a swag in it. No problem 🤷🏼♂️
@@GR8Tmate your are right but wrong. No doubt they are tough and reliable but they are bloody expensive so it isn’t unreasonable to expect that these design flaws not to be there, especially after all these years of making these vehicles. They went to the trouble of redesigning the front end to accomodate the new engine but then decided to leave the rear axle alone and 100mm narrower than the front. That’s something we would expect to hear about some obscure communist manufacturer 50 years ago not from one of the largest car manufacturers in world. How cheap do you have to be? Then there is the dusting issues which I also have with my 200 series. How hard is it to design an air box that actually seals the filter element from the intake rather than leaking around the filter? This is pretty basic stuff that people are spending money on which really should just be made correctly by Toyota. Still, with 12 month waiting lists for a new troopy at over $80,000 I suppose they figure they can get away with it.
This has really got me thinking & have not a clue on the answer.
What is ideal for any 4X4 when on hard roads, off road & towing when it come to widening or narrowing a back axle?
Should you rely on the car makers settings (not just a toyota) should they be widened at the back especially when towing & the various surfaces around the world we drive on.
I would be interested in your thoughts, or even experiments on various vehicles as I am starting to consider my next vehicle which will need to tow on tarmac & off road in the wet & windy lands of the UK & Europe.
The track on front and back axles should be the same. As it is with most cars and 4wds.
Troopy has x4 20mm insertion depth rims.
Replace rear rims with -30 rims (which is 30mm proud of the hub)
Wheel track is now even.
Carry one spare of each rim.
Would you please explain more
I have towed extremely heavy weights all over and not once have i ever wished i had a wider wheel track, sand mud,gravel or tarmac I've never noticed an issue.
One thing you have not covered is that the Troopy especially is inherently prone to rolling over so anything you can do to make it more stable is worth it, in my view. Plus having your car look like a three-wheeler is horrible. My Troopy, hopefully delivered later this month, will almost certainly get a track correction, most likely the True Tracker.