Why Toyota didn't widen the back axle on the 70-series Land Cruiser | 4xOverland
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- The reason why Toyota did not match the back axle to the front when they lengthened it in 2007 was economical. I'll explain why.
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Soo they were being lazy and cheap? This thing has beat its own sales records 4 of the last 5 years so it's still selling like crazy here (for some reason) so has volume. Just can't help but feel like Toyota has been taking the P*$$ for years with this thing.. I get the simple and reliable thing, 100% behind that, but why do they cost more than most of the tech heavy 4wds?? Being so simple surely should be priced accordingly? I'm sure the fans will smash me for the comment but just offering my opinion 😊
Good comment. Maybe we are being taken for fools. But I for one really love the Land Cruiser for its relative simplicity and its solid front axles. And for that I'm willing to pay the price.
@@4xoverland of course. And I get the simple/reliable too I really do. I just wish Toyota didn't put a premium on it particularly as they seem to be one of the last manufacturers offering this kind of platform
In reading that back maybe that is why there is a premium!! 🤔😄
But having a solid front axles is only really needed in tough off-road situations, that you don’t put it through..
You are in fact correct. I have a 2020 Hilux extra cab with a Bull canopy. It opens up everywhere and has more usable space than any Troopy, drives far better, and doesn’t need to be entirely re engineered like a 70 series. Plus with a locking diff, traction control and auto trans is way better off road.
Seems like, if they'd wanted to, Toyota could have just flared the rear wheelarches (the actual panels) rather than widening the entire body.
Let's face it, when YOU fit the axle extensions, you don't need to widen the body, the doors, the roof etc.
Course, the real reason IS simply the expense. They didn't NEED to revise the rear axle so they didn't bother. It works. Get it out the door.
I agree with you, rear wheel arches flared problem solved.
*Exactly the point I made last video, cheers* 👍
Totally agree.
This is true. However making any changes to the design (flares, etc) will result in changes that need to be made in manufacturing (stamping body panels, etc); no matter how minor they are. This is a cost that Toyota will try to avoid because any changes to the design, tooling, means addition to the overall price; which they would no doubt want to keep it at because they want to retain the customers.
as someone who 's been in the bodywork repairs business for long ,, i agree 100%. companies only improve things when they can't avoid it..
Actually I do not think their biggest concern were add on wheel arches. In my mind they just refused the development cost of a new axle....
I agree
I agree. Simple as you said. Don’t blame them tho because it’s a low volume seller and I’d rather have it as is, than not at all. Defenders have been running wheel arch flares for many years and they rarely come off or get damaged. I’ve draged mine along trees many times - no issues. There are many commercial vehicles that have a narrower rear track. For example: the old Ford transit vans, chev suburban, leaf spring Nissan patrols with the Dana rear and even the iconic Toyota 40 series had a slightly narrower rear axle. Not sure if there is an advantage for it in a commercial or it’s just a cost thing.
Not just wider wheel arches. They also need longer Brake lines to reach the extra width.
That would be a logistics disaster. An Toyota is a company that prides itself on parts an supply everywhere.
Not to mention class action lawsuits.
@@yanmak2363 hardly a logistics disaster lol. It's simply another minor part they didn't want to reengineer.
If Toyota did it from factory they could have just wacked some wheel spacers on.
Ping, ping, ping. ping .........love it Andrew. You've summed up what we love about the 70 series perfectly. Thankyou
Hahaha 🤪 a LR man here going AHMEN! Hahaha
maaan, you beat me to calling this out! hahahah
"... we know when the door is open!" Andrew(2022)
Yes!!! I wish more automotive journalists and automakers would understand that there are many of us who prefer simplicity and durability over flashy, cutting-edge things that don’t last long before failures!
The 70 series is as solid as a brick its a delight to live with, it is highly addictive and it's a timeless piece of kit.
The 70 series is your companion and friend, it puts a smile on your face as you walk to wards it every time, and there is nothing like it but for a G wagen that costs triple the price !
And the best observation of all is the fact that every one who has bought the 70 series by choice for personal use, has the most dependable charming and beautiful wife and life !
I bought 2018 G wagon for 100K. It has the same width axles and a payload the Land Cruiser can't match.
And the 70 series utes also bend like all utes do
Try replacing a starter motor on the over rated over priced Landcruiser. Nothing simple about it that the Toyota brain washed tell you about removing the entire valley in the V8 just to get to it. That should be the simplest job but Toyota dropped the ball on that one. Hilux is so superior to the Landcruiser and it doesn't drive like a truck.
The Toyota Coaster is probably the best mini bus ever developed. It also came in 4x4 for awhile.
It also had the Land Cruiser engine.
@@harveysmith100 yep, and the late ones even had 1hd-fte's
Yep bought two coasters with 1hds from my local school for a god damn bargain pretty much payed for the engine!!
One had 70k the other had 130k I’m converting both to campers and selling one of them so my one will be for free!!
00:38, I suspect he means to say 'the reason why toyota widened the FRONT axle is because of the V8'.
Just commenting in case anyone is wondering.
Cracking video again andrew.
Great clip buddy 👍👍👍
That’s exactly why I like them too, they’re simple and they’re basic and they just work, they’re reliable and dependable till the end .... and they just keep working for many many years too.
No unnecessary climate control, no electric buttons to control your heater and aircon, no LCD multi heads up mini control centre crap on the instrument cluster to tell you which gear you’re in, no beeping reminder set to tell you you’ve not fully wound down your window or turned off the auto ‘rain sensing’, ‘dusk sensing’ wipers, no electric heated seats, no seats blowing cool air up your backside while you’re waiting in the Starbucks driveway for a mocha frappe skim almond milk cappa’latte ....
"No mechanical sympathy"......great turn of phrase. Thank you.
Yeah I'm one of those, mechanical aptitude of a knat.
With all due respect Andrew there's no good reason Toyota couldn't have widened the rear axle and body to suit. The main body and floor plan structure could in fact remain the same, just widen the rear quarter stamping to provide the necessary flare. If they had done this while they were updating the tooling to suit the V8 engine and new front end the implementation costs would have been minimal, especially considering they can sell it as is for a further 20-30 years.
The cost argument also bugs me a bit. This is an $80k vehicle with features, design and an interior from decades ago. As you rightly point out the current model has been in production (with updates such as V8) since 1985. Surely the tooling has been long paid off and these simply must be one of Toyota's most profitable models. I would be genuinely surprised if the unit cost of these to Toyota bottom line was over $40k.
I love the 70 series and love that exists. I've owned one in the past (a HZJ75), but I'm not sure I'll ever have another as it's simply too compromised and expensive compared to other options. Toyota won't care though as clearly the people lining up to buy them do not share my opinion, and that's the problem. From Toyota's finance perspective they have done the right thing, though I like to think the engineers would have preferred to update the vehicle properly :)
Absolutely spot on. With the cost of these cars any design mods on the rear axle and increasing the rear guard flare a little on the tooling is very minimal. I worked in the car industry for a while in modifying tooling when improvement were needed. With such a long production run these 70 series LC's have had, the cost of these mods in nothing, it's just a cop out.
Hey Andrew, if we can correct the track with after market solutions like true tracker and the coil kits without widening the body or changing he roof etc, why couldn’t Toyota do the same?
Toyota does not want to spend the money 😒
Cost. Pure and sim
How much did this cost and do your wheels stick out past the width of the body ?
i don’t know why people are still asking this after so long. Toyota don’t feel the need to change anything because people and companies keep buying them as they are.
They’re not going to put money into the manufacturing and testing of a whole new rear end of a model that has a limited time left in production, when they can just leave it to the customer to sort out. The majority of those buyers, mines, farms, government etc don’t care about track width
The other thing to remember is you can go to pretty much any 76 or 78 series and the rear diffs, axles etc are interchangeable. If you had a widened one and broke an axle you could not rip one out of a wrecked one and replace it. Also if a mining company owned a fleet made of both variations they would need to have twice as many spares.
If you used a 0 offset front and rear you have plenty of width in the body for widening the rear axle. No body widening needed. Fact is the 79 is a commercial vehicle and Toyota have always treated it as such. Off-road touring was never it's primary function. The switch to 5 stud was also a big mistake, ask any mine site.
But it must have saved Toyota about $10 per car. Miserable tight arse company.
But it must have saved Toyota about $10 per vehicle. What a miserable toght arse company.
@@GRcorolla-bt3mn what other equipment? Aircon was an option until '17. Power windows only on the newest models, standard clutch is junk. Reason for using the V8 is that was Toyota's replacement for thier outgoing diesel 6s, none of which would pass emissions. The last full size cruiser with a solid front was the 105, even a 200 with IFS is a better tourer platform. The 70 series pretty small inside compared to an 80/100/200.
@@PhatToni the 78 is a much bigger vehicle inside than any 80/100/200.
@@mattmendel930 the 78 has the advantage of a higher roof and longer wheelbase but is still narrower than all newer LandCruisers. The cabin is very pokey in all 70 series, even a GQ has more room
They are currently overpriced by at least $20,000 here in Australia. Considering you need to spend another $20-40,000 to get them to a good overland vehicle, they become very expensive for people to justify. Only the real fanboys need apply.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us sir. Here in my country Guatemala Toyota is the king and the 70 series is highly appreciated in the rural region. greetings to you and success in this channel so different and unique. Blessings.
Andrew, that is a great explanation, I used to drive V8 Troopies in the WA desert when I lived in an Aboriginal community working for an Aboriginal owned company and I have to say that I found them pretty indestructible but not that great to drive, they were okay. I understand your explanation about costs of widening the rear axle, but, I don't necessarily agree with you when other third-party companies have come up with what, I assume, are fairly low-cost methods of correcting the rear axle. My point being that if third-party companies can produce a fix for the axle, then so could Toyota but, they didn't. I have to agree with you regarding the reasons why you buy these trucks, they are simple, and I hate the modern nanny state trucks as much as you do. My truck is 21 years old and going strong and no bleeps or beeps or electronic nonsense in it either. Thanks for the explanation.
I totally understand what you are saying about wheel arch extensions in Africa.
I went to visit my cousin in Zambia, he has a lovely 80 series with the fibre glass wheel arches. One day we got bogged down and the winch failed us just when we needed it.
Some locals came to help us push it out of the mud. My cousin showed them clearly not to grab the wheel arches but as soon as he got back into the driving seats hands were all over the wheel arches, trying to lift two and a half tons via fibreglass!! It wasn't their fault, they were being helpful and they had probable grabbed so many steel wheel arches that is made sense to them.
You are top among the few genuine motor journalists I know, I salute you, sir!
Yes Andrew spot on again. Another reason I think apart from what you have mentioned is your not hurtling down the Hwy in a soundproof box, it is actually engaging to drive a 70 series, keeps you mind on the job at hand
But surely the fact that you can get an aftermarket solution installed means that Toyota could if they so wished do exactly the same thing at the factory. No new rear body required.
Why fix what isn’t broken? Doesn’t make fuck all of a difference.
100% just add a body flair...
exactly, why don't they subsidise the aftermarket correction. i think it's unbelievable that they haven't correced it, UNBELIEVABLE.
I had a 1990 70 troopy that was dual fuel petrol and LPG. With all the tanks filled I had 1k+ kms without stopping.
Served me very well for over a decade, the only alteration from standard was an electronic ignition.
An absolute beast, I sold it when I had kids (it was a converted camper with no rear seats) and always regretted it.
I am a cautionary tale!
NEVER SELL YOUR 70!
Major criteria for me was the fact that you can get parts for the 79 in my case, everywhere in remote Australia. Every community has a half dozen or so in the bush nearby. No need to flat top it 500k to a dealer to get the remote key reprogrammed .
Loved the mini rant on mini mindless and excruciating beeps that are pointless. Great insight, thank you Andrew.
Was hoping for this follow-up to your trackwidth video! Thanks again and always for doing all that you do.
Excellent response Andrew - as mentioned before I’ve owned many Subarus but mainly the low tech 1997/1998 Foresters and even while travelling the Pilbara from SA I had zero issues mainly because of their simplicity and reliability - when I researched for a more suitable touring 4WD with more room I bought a low tech pre DPF 2010 Hilux auto diesel with factory bullbar only - without needing any lift kits/mud tyres/GVM upgrades and so on I’ve trekked everywhere without issues - I would not be so confident with a high tech 4WD in the outback - John in SA
The old Subarus did the job for a bloody good price. They are sadly missed.
Well, im no LC owner nor am i an off-roader, but as a former racing and test driver i know that, if anything, a wider front track compared to the rear helps the car to not flip over, a lot. Correct me if im wrong but i dont see any issue at all with having a wider front track..?
On a racetrack, no, but on soft sand or soft terrain, then yes as you want the rear wheels to follow in the same track as the front
It’s very different when one end of the car weighs 2.5 ton and the other end weighs 1ton… but in reality, everyone who does the wheel track correction, are the same people who do it because some guy on TH-cam said it’s better. Doesn’t make fuck all of a difference.
@@tasmanmcmillan1777 clearly you've never driven both iterarions. I own both versions (one is my work truck), and i can tell you the wheels of a narrow rear track axle consistently tries to fall off the centre mound down into the wheel ruts the front is making, therefore making it even more difficult than it should be to hold it in a straight line
@@i-am-that-what-i-am I’ve driven multiple of both. Corrected with leaf, corrected with coil, corrected with coil & portal, standard with coil, standard with leaf. When I ordered new last year, I had the option to do the correction, but after testing all configurations, there’s really no need in the end. You can argue all you want, but the fact of the matter is, if you need an extra 50mm on the rear to drive the vehicle, you’re obviously needing driving lessons.
Seriously, when 70' series owners rectify the rear axle they don't widen the body though, so your explanation goes out the window.
Lol, we know when the doors open 😄 Geat point Andrew. Why do fancy cars have the beeping crap?
Widening the axle means the wheels stick outside the body requiring flares to be legal. He explained very clearly why this was unsuitable for NGO's etc.
Dear Andrew!
Thanks for another great episode. Today I managed to listen to you without a screen view (whilst cooking on an open fire). My specific praise is that I could fully grasp the whole episode as if it were also meant to be broadcast on the wireless. Thanks for expressing everything verbally very well.
I bought my HZJ78 new in 2001. 260.000km on it now and replaced once the exhaust, two times the batteries, one gasket in the rear axel and som rubber bushings. Thats it! Even the brake pads are never replaced. Today i will get the about same price if i should sell as i payed for it. Drives like on the first day. If i could swap my HZJ for a brand new110 i would pass. This is the best and most reliable vehicle in the world....period!
Obvious, simple, and of course, well explained by (probably) the best Toyota Expert in the overland world.
The Troopy is like a crocodile, a really old design that still works better and lasts longer than most in a modern world :) I loved the 'ping ping ping' bit at the end. Nothing drives me madder than these bloody awful alarms on just about everything that tell me what I already know. A pox on the people who decided to inflict that stuff on us!
The 76 and 79 is the same
The auto door alarm thing in modern cars drives me nuts. Especially if you work a job that requires you to get out of the car every 30 meters.
A farmer putting in fence posts on a massive station, might not even have time to close the door + seatbelt. They don't need a robot telling them the bloody obvious!
@@yanmak2363 These pings are pretty easily cut silent (or plugged out for the crowd thinking of resell value).
Perfectly summed up! Great video Andrew
They could have reworked the rear quarters too flare them slightly. They did it on the Shogun /Pajero without making an add in plastic arch flare. Why would anybody question the 70 series existence? It's bloody obvious if you know anything about vehicles design and purpose.
Amount of times he said they can stand up to those with little mechanical sympathy and all I can think of is an old mate who went through 4 gear boxes in 80k km in his 70...
Best truthfull logical responce ever, thanks for making your vids!
3:36 I can count about 12 people there. That is quite a feat. ThankYou for your videos Andrew !
In Australia they are licenced to carry 3 in the front and 4 a side in the back, so that's 11 all up including the driver. Go to some aboriginal communties and you'll see they fit in much more than that, especially with kids. I've personally seen them carry 19 with a dead pig and wallaby thrown in on the floor for good measure.
@@snells-window 😂😂😂👍🏻
We drove the V8 79s as ultralight firefighting vehicles for several years and yes, they're basic. Toyota did put a beeper on the seat belt that drove us nuts whilst crawling around a fire line (and guys would unplug it or just do the seat belts up behind themselves) and the offset wheel track was occasionally a nuisance in ruts but they took the punishment and loved it. The forestry 'upgraded' to G-wagons in recent years and they're rubbish. Where you could point a 'Cruiser at a crazy hill and it would eat it - wheel lifts and all - the G-wagons start crying and beg to go home to mum before they even start. They were work vehicles though. Personally I'd love a 70 series but can't afford one so have settled for a 120 series Prado of all things and have found that with a little more, 'mechanical sympathy,' good rubber, a modest lift and a bit more skill it goes everywhere I want it to.
Outstanding blogger for an outstanding car.keep going! With respect from Ukraine!
I had a 94 HZJ75 Troopy, the track was wider front to back even back then, not as bad as the VDJ models.
Landcruiser 70 for life! Literally, it will last that long.
Many like all those gizmos but I for one also appreciate simple, durable and tough. And I believe that is the sentiment of a growing majority of the motoring public.
I have a 2009 Model 76 Series here in the UAE. It is a beast and extremely dependable. I did use a high quality spacer on the rear as sidewinds herein the desert can be nasty and you feel the stability at its limit with the stock rear axle in heavy wind. my rear tires have never rubbed the wheel arches with the spacers.
On the sand is where you have problems... the highway I really doubt you can tell anything from the "wind". Certainly rubbing is unlikely to be a problem because of all the ground clearance. But wheel spacers are illegal in Australia because they can be quite dangerous.
@@xpusostomos I am in the sand all the time here. My vehicle does much better on side slopes in the dunes with the spacers. No issues with the spacers to date.
@@craigluhr3034 spacers are fine, until they fall off and you die. You have to understand about bolt lengths, torque numbers, sheer forces, how often to tighten them and so fourth.
@@xpusostomos Thanks, I have checked into all this before I added them. The benefits out weigh the risk for me. That could be said for everything. There are no guarantees in life except taxes and death. You can choose to live on your knees or enjoy life and die on your feet. In the words of FDR; "There is nothing to fear, but fear itself."
Toyota 70 series is nice reliable vehicle ,simplicity and reliability is most important part ,nicely explained
We used to have whiskey and cigar every other night at the back of this particular old and battered armoured Troopie. Good old days.
My 2 door Jeep has solid front axles. And with the doors open there is no pinging!
So well said again! This is why I have ordered a Suzuki Jimny 4x4 for myself and NZ Adventure's.
You exaggerate, they could have flared out the rear body, just like they flared the front body without a "whole new car", without a new roof, without a new floor plan. It would have been a minor change to the presses that stamp the rear body. It was a very cheap skate decision, the amount they saved was basically pennies, even by the standards of the small production run. I mean come on, car companies revise their sheet metal EVERY YEAR with minor changes. Look at the sheet metal changes just between the XA and XB Ford Falcon.... different bonnet, different rear doors, different boot lid, different front fenders. They didn't have to do it, it was a minor refresh,, lot's of people barely noticed the sheet metal changes, yet they changed the sheet metal for a minor yearly refresh. This was for something like a run of 125,000 XA Falcons. I don't know how many 70 series they've sold since they widened the track, but they've sold well over 400,000 70 series in Australia alone, not counting Africa and all the other places they are sold. Nahhh, Toyota cheaped out, there is no way around it.
In the Middle East Market we still have the rugged Nissan Patrol Y61 (pickup, station wagon, short wheel base) with all specs along with the 70series! Because people buy them here and love them.
If I had 1000 USD to give you as a gift, you were spot on in every utterance
Thank for your rant at the end but why then change to a v8 when the 4.2 is bullit prove
agree, they should have stuck with the straight 6.
Was all for emissions regs
Thank you Andrew for that explanation. I have wanted to know the reason for a long time. Knew there had to be a rational explanation. And yes, the modern alarm systems today are infuriating! We aren’t all stupid !!!
Our local dealers in my country don’t sell the 70 series. We usually get them for a premium from grey market sellers.
But at the price their asking, I would rather get a Prado or save a little bit more and get the 200 series.
I was once handling the registration of a Landcruiser Troopcarrier. I processed it as a regular passenger vehicle with the particular engine specifications the vehicle had. I got a called back from the registration authority that I had processed it wrong. Given its was allocated the capacity to hold so many people they considered it to be in the category of a small bus.
Thankyou just learned something new today....!!!!
I saw my first 70-series in Norway the other day. Two of them in fact, sat in the Arctic Trucks workshop getting some serious mods done to them. Fascinating trucks, tiny by modern standards but solid looking. Unfortunately you have to order 50 at a time to get one here, and they are rediculously expensive. That said, even if they cost the same here as they do in Aus I doubt I would get one given all the work you have to do to make them properly capable offroaders. My dream setup would be an LC300 with 35's, but for some reason Toyota won't sell those here in Europe either, so we are stuck with the Prado 150!
I just did a test drive in an INEOS Grenadier today. It was a prototype vehicle, but it felt REALLY good. Not as big as a Troopy, but smooth and refined whilst still being basic.
Not sure how many 78 sales will get displaced by the Grenadier, but it is has excellent design philosophy and I think it is going to do really well in Australia.
Have you had the chance to drive one yet?
honestly they should call it a success if they can sell 1000 a year here but think it will be more like the gu patrol utes of under 500 per year, unless they get some different chassis lengths its to short for a proper aussie farm/mine ute (this was major problem for the gu ute too much weight behind the axle, second is coil all round will break chassis, lr had that issue Nissan same issue when went coil Ute, bmw engine will be major turn off out here due to its accessory's and auxiliary's and bmw's are horrible to work around
@@Bigcountry_littlelegs Yeah - the BMW engine doesn't fill me with confidence, especially after watching a few 'Car Ninja' videos. But it went like stink. 650Nm I think.
And they have a dual cab version slated for next year.
Also - the payload is over 900Kg, which is very impressive and streets ahead of any 200/300/Prado which are down in the 500Kg regions.
I say bring on the Grenadier !
That'll be the biggest flop in Oz
@@jamiemckennon1944 For what reason?
That was great. Thanks for the explanation. Tbh though I still think wheel arches are feasible and cheap. If they get ripped of because people treat them like shit, it’s hardly Toyota’s problem. I see people in ‘less developed parts of Perth 😆’ drive around unroadworthy smashed up cars. Doesn’t mean those manufacturers considered that in their design. So all in all, I still believe Toyota copped out and did the bare minimum.
Even a welded in integral guard would of been feasible especially with the profit they make per vehicle. But again it was all about profit and they just kind of went about it wrong. “It’s this or nothing”
I was at the Parkerville Tavern on Sunday and some guy was doing burnouts in his 70 series, ol' mate nearly crashed the bloody thing!
I have a 2011 GXL model and love it. I was always of the impression that the difference between the front and rear track was for "stability". I don't notice the effect but people travelling behind me often wind down their window to let me know that I'm crabbing or my rear axle isn't aligned properly. It's easily explained to them and we all drive off happy. I too love the fact that it doesn't piss me off with chimes announcing the bloody obvious. I like the phrase "lacking mechanical sympathy", that pretty much describes just about everyone nowadays, except for those of us who appreciate motor vehicles for what they really are and, for not just a means of moving around. Long live the Cruiser.
Not for stability.... the pre-V8 model had a track that was close to lining up... although funnily enough still wasn't exactly the same.
Dear Andrew,
Greetings from the subcontinent. I have been watching your videos for a while and really love them. Keep up the good work.
Regarding the current video, I agree with all of the points you made except the ones regarding fender flares. Here we have, or rather had until 2016, the LWB version of the 80's Suzuki Samurai in two flavours- with the original JDM narrow track and the later wide track. The latter has the same body with metal fender flares and are used by the government departments AND the military. The military orders still keeps the tooling alive and almost once every two years, Maruti Suzuki re-tools one of their super busy assembly lines to produce a large batch of Gypsys (yes, that's what we call the Samurai) for the military, as civilian ownership is now precluded due to emissions and safety standards. The ones still in civilian hands are prized for their simplicity and go anywhere ability.
This proves your point regarding the need for simple and capable vehicles, and also disproves the contention that fender flares are somehow not rugged enough. The clamped- on metal fender flares of the Samurai takes the abuse that government departments- and the military- subject their vehicles to and remain attached to the body even if badly scarred. What I believe to be the reason behind the narrow rear track of the LC is the cost of developing a new wider axle. If the same was available, they could have simply bolted on or welded on some metal fender flares. Even if the wilderness took them as prize in Africa, I don't think that the operators would have been bothered. That's just my opinion based on my observations.
well put and makes sense why you like them . I am still confused on the rear axle though? If Toyota have to redesign the whole body to widen the axle, how can you do it with a conversion kit?
As an owner of both iterations of 79's , i'd say it was just an excuse to use up all the old axles.
We’ve done a lot of global overland travel. Toyotas break just like everything else, especially older ones. But… usually they can be easily fixed by someone nearby.
Well, all what you said Andrew is correct, but the length of time these cars have been in production, any increase in costs would have been covered long ago. Most models have complete upgrades every 10 years or even less, which would be far more costly.
You did say they would have needed to increase the width of the floor, the roof, the rear doors, boy wouldn't that have been a great mod I'm sure you will agree. I did worked in the motor industry for a while and on the tooling side and all this vehicle really needed was the stamping press tool for the rear side panel to be modified for increased rear wheel clearance, not a big mod really and cost in it's self wouldn't have been that large, the car industry does this stuff all the time. By the way, they could make some good quality wheel arch flares and if they did get knocked somehow, like any part, just get it repaired.
Also the amount of LC's Toyota sells is huge, so absorbing some costs for this mod wouldn't affect there bottom line very little, in fact, I think it would increase there bottom line. And they do sell lots of 70 series LC's as well. But we certainly don't want Toyota to stop making them, so we may need to keep our mouths shut.
Dude great comprehensive review of the why they didn’t do it.. and all of what you said is most likely very accurate.. although the penultimate reason they didn’t change it and still haven’t is the proof of conceptual physics that a tail dragger is safer and more forgiving at speed on a corrugated dirt road and less likely to result in rollover than a vehicle with an even track. This was actually the cherry on top of all the cost savings and why they haven’t changed the track nor the rear leaf springs. There is a really informative rally video on this topic out there on web.
It’s the solid front axle why you got a thumbs up from me.
You’d would have gotten 10 if you said part time with 4wd..
Solid axles with manual locking hubs and differential locks need to come back. This is a worldwide issue
They drive like crap. Uncomfortable as all hell and that's why a solid front won't ever come back in any decent passenger vehicle. The 70s are pigs on road and need far too many mods to make them mildly comfortable. Of your dead set on Toyota, the 200 is far better
@@jamiemckennon1944 I'd have a 200 over a 76 wagon... but both of them have no cargo space.
@@xpusostomos yep the 200 is a much better car. Still wouldn't buy one but I don't understand this 76/79 series following. They're a hunk of shit
Complexity is the enemy of reliability!
No it's because the 70 land cruiser is under old laws and if they change the track at the back to match the front it will be a completely new vehicle and will have to meet a lot of new vehicle standards that the 70 will not meet. This is why Toyota is going to up the GVM soon so it can pass newer laws in the future by making it more of a light truck to meet light truck standards..
This was my understanding
Nonsense.
@@xpusostomos would you care to elaborate ?
@@teamstarlingadventures3904 hard to elaborate on something that is not real
You are the reason I’m getting my sandy taupe Troopy this year. Thanks
the older design of these utility vehicles, much like the original Defender makes them fantastic overland vehicles as they are so easy to work on
We know when the doors open! Awesome, cannot agree more. Papua New Guinea is Landcruiser 70s country! Watching from Port Moresby 🇵🇬👍🏾
Two wider rear quarter panels to match the widened rear axle.
Job done.
True, but then you'd need quarter panels for the wagon too... and new rear doors.
@@xpusostomos no, obviously you would weld correct and not foul the back doors or anything. 😉👍
You couldn’t have put it better mate, good on ya.
Bring on the 5 door Suzuki Jimny! For pretty much the exact same reason 👍
This is totally unrelated to the axles but I was just wondering what your opinion is on Amber colour lights as night driving lights or just in general. Thank You for the great content and informative information you provide.
Good explanation and great video. As a Landcruiser enthusiast I learned something new.
talking about "durable" workhorses, in the minibus category, toyota actually makes/made a dyna version of the hiace minibus often seen in africa, quite the funny vehicle, with duals at the rear end to carry the weight (those minibuses are often seen with 20 people inside).
Those poor hiace minibuses work to death, they work with them for so many hours per day the oil never gets cold, we would see some really impressive mileages except that the instrument cluster failing to read miles/rpm is common place and not important enough to warrant a repair.
PS: some hiaces are 4x4
A set of fender flares are all that is required to fit a wider rear axle. They aren’t doing it because all of the markets you mentioned won’t notice the minor tracking issues associated with the rear tires not exactly following the front. Only perfectionist overlanders would bother with it 😜
Great video, I had UK spec 70 series and love the simplicity. I'd love to own another one. They are definitely built to last.
Thanks Andrew, for the info about the front and rear axle width of the 70 series land cruisers
I disagree Andrew. They could have just widened the design of the rear quarter panels. Quarter panels are separate parts in body design. Easy job.
Yes, they probably could have pressed wider flares into the panel, but they still have the cost of a new press die and re-engineering a rear axle, the bearing loadings, force distribution into the chassis etc that only a small percentage of a small run vehicle demands, the NGO's aren't running out to widen the rear axle!
I'm sure they only did the front due to emissions requirements!
@@markdaniels9507 At least body re-design isn't the argument here ..
Think about it... those that get the tru-tracker kit fitted, did they also require a body kit/wheel flares OR panel widening? 🤔
Suzuki put a bonger in my Jimny for when the door is open and the key is in, but being a simple thing, I found the lead, unplugged it and it no longer bongs.
Brilliant explanation, I have some appreciation of these tractors now.
Thank you Andrew. I was one of the comments asking "why". I've been asking for years.
I know the reason.. cost. 70 series sells like chocolate mud cake at an unsupervised fat kid camp with massive inflation.
Fit some bolt on flared rear arches and fix the track.
Still sells, why spend anything to improve it.
I don't know that 10000 a year is "chocolate mud cake". I'm done buying this car, but if they fixed a few things, I'd come back in as a buyer.
Nonono. Hold one second. You do not need to widen the body! In the 80s, the tires were sitting waay deep inside the body, unlike all the modern standards, there are HEAPS of room to widen the axle before the tires are going to stick out of the body, you may also play with rims offset .... and then there are plastic fender extenders exist on top of everything else, they did widen the front fenders, but they did not even have to, actually, they could have just put plastic extenders there instead, take a look at the pajero-2 before and after restyle, where they got rid of plastic extenders and widened the metal fenders instead, both front and rear, there is no need to change the entire body structure, doors, etc. Look at the american Jeep wrangler, the wheels stick out of the body like a half meter from each side and with absurdly thick plactic fenders to cover it. There is no excuse for toyota other than being cheap, they should have put 80-series rear axle with coils and give the car plastic extensions - it's always good to have them on an offroad vehicle in any case because they protect the body.
"There is no excuse for toyota other than being cheap" I agree 100 percent, it's not a cheap vehicle, why then put a V8 in?
They sat inside the body, because toyota wants them well inside the body. If they widened the track the skinny tyres would be nearly flush with the body... which is no good. And nobody but nobody runs skinnies anyway.
I searched for weeks to find the stupid "bing" in my Mom's car, cut the wire, and then the stupid engine check light came on. Ugh.
I know when my damn door is open! 😠😠
Cheers Andrew. Thanks for the interesting entertainment.
👋from Sat Afrika.
As well as the body, Toyota would want to widen the chassis, so the springs can sit further out and maintain the 2300kg rear axle rating.
Older Chevy trucks had the narrow rear axles. It is commonly believed that they kept the narrow rear end to improve the turning radius. Oddly, vans had wider axles and are therefore sought after by builders.
thank you for your detailed video
love Isuzu 4x4 truck 2010 4x4 crew cab carry family and still 1500kg on back with no trailer
I remember coming out of a motel room in Swan Hill, Victoria early one morning somewhere in the 2006 - 2008 era to see two very odd Landcruiser 75 series utes parked adjacent to our room. They were the old 75 series front panels but appeared to have been cut up with 1mm cutoff wheels on a grinder, front to back sections inserted into the front guards and bonnet and riveted and Sikaflexed together. The effect was a lot of the taper in the front disappeared. I recognised quickly that they were some sort of development vehicle but none of the guys accompanying them would respond to questions. It was pre phone camera era so no photos but when they did start up it certainly wasn’t the normal 6 cyl diesel noise. I can’t recall if the front track looked wider but looking back the timing seems right for some sort of V8 diesel hot climate test program happening in the early stages of V8 engineering.
Hot climate test and Victoria doesn’t go in the same paragraph…
@@tasmanmcmillan1777 you obviously aren’t too sharp on geography or climate. North west Victoria in mid summer. Try it out for yourself.
@@tungstentwohundredandtwent7007 Is definitely not that bad. Especially considering the major 70 series markets are in hotter, dustier and dirtier places.
It's scary how similar our thoughts are regarding how cars are built today. My example of something that drives me nuts along with the ping ping ping. My Kia let's me know when my steering wheel is not straight and I need to aline my front wheels. It's downright insulting really. Keep up the good work
thanks andrew.. I intend to import a 2015 70 series JDM market 5 door(30th anniversary) landcruiser from japan to Kenya. Its a V6 with 4000cc engine..I hope it lasts for 30 years!
Toyota is well aware that people will happily buy them for the badge on the front, and happily pay through the nose, regardless of any design flaws. Why would they spend money correcting design flaws when the same people are going to buy them anyway?
That is very true. People are flocking to buy the LC300, even with it so overpriced. If Nissan put a diesel in the Y62, they could easily kill LC300 sales.
You have hit the nail on the head there mate
We spend far more money maintaining the 70 than the hilux which operate in the same way on site. 27 of them required new injectors and pistons from design flaws which was heaps of fun doing engine out rebuilds in a dome shed. They also have pitting issues around the swivel Hubs which causes leaks. The next vehicle option will almost certainly be something else.
Depends what you're doing with them. The mines won't buy hiluxes because they fall apart in those conditions.
@@xpusostomos we have both, the only issues the hilux had were dpf related. The 70 were ok until some age crept in.
@@dinosshed Yes, what the mines do with them doens't reflect normal usage.
Im just thankful I can still purchase them almost 40 years on.
If it was all about widening the rear of the body then why has Dana Australia developed a wider rear axle to suit the 70 series without widening the body?
Why do many tyre shops opt for a different offset for the rear tyres?
Currently sitting in a 2017 model 79 series with 177,883kms on it, all minesite kms.all in the pilbara. It is also almost 50 degrees centigrade here at the moment. Lasting a hell of a lot better than the poxy ford rangers they have on site..
I live in British Columbia Canada, and I would love to have a brand new 70 series.
Great video Andrew, but I still cant believe that Toyota couldnt just put a rear axle that aligns with the front because its not economical for them. No body panel widening need in my view
Ohhh very good and very funny. Yes the breeze tends to give away the fact that the bloody door is open. The most annoying part is that most of the things that go ping can’t be switched off🤬🤬🤬🤬.
I can't agree more, that the toyota 79 is the best platform for touring, but in my opinion toyota has released more jeeps and trucks that are simple but expensive compared to the rest of the platforms on the market, I think Toyota has bet a lot on reliability of your vehicles by keeping it simple, and it's that simplicity that makes Toyota both expensive and good in terms of durability
Well said.
I can see the arguments for it being best off road... but touring? Surely it's worst for touring.
@@xpusostomos It all depends on what country you're going to use it and what sort of "touring".
If I was going to Overlanding in the USA or Canada I would most likely not pick a Toyota 79 model.
Note that touring is not the same as off-roading pure and hard or rock crowling, the 79 series is one of the most spacious platforms on the 4x4 market at this very moment I can't find any platform that makes the most use of interior space as the 79.