Well I don’t know why so many people are moaning about the series. I have watched all of them and put everything I have learnt into practice. My riding has become a lot smoother, controlled and I’m becoming a lot more confident in my ability and the bikes ability. I look forward to every time I get to go for a ride. Thank you John for taking the time to make this series, much appreciated.
Hi John. Many thanks for taking the plunge and putting this series of videos together, I really enjoyed them. I did my advanced test a couple of years ago over the summer of 2019. I missed the training so much over the winter that last year I went back to carry on training as a local observer so I can give something back to the group and share the techniques and fun with others. Regarding the varied interpretations of Motorcycle Roadcraft or any other for that matter, there’s a phrase that is used quite regularly within our group and I’m sure others too and that is “it depends!” as there is very rarely if ever a single fixed answer and by exploring this the rider is encouraged to think how to use the principles to develop their riding plan given the unique circumstances. I’m looking to continue my learning journey next year but hopefully later this year when we’re out of lockdown I’ll be able to help other riders along their way👍 Cheers
Wow! Thank you John for taking the time to share your knowledge, really interesting and like Graham below said, i have been totally hooked from the start, although i found PS -8 video first, then watched 9,10 and then re started back at PS-1 just before Christmas and have just come to the end at PS-31. I have just got back into bikes since meeting up with a few pals in Cambodia for 6 days off road tour 4 years ago, which scared me half to death :-) Now 54 years young, i felt it was time for more training and signed up for Advanced training with IAMS, however what with Covid, and a year on, still have not manged to get course finished. I certainly agree though, whilst attending one club meeting local to me, i really did feel like the new boy and there was definitely a real sense of "Them and Us" vibe to the extent I have not wanted to go to any further meetings. That said my Observer has been excellent and also one of the Master's certified riders gave up a few hours with me, and gave me some very clear and constructive and positive critique. Would love to come to Bonny Scotland at some point and buy you a beer for a litte thank you for your time given to my self and hopefully many other riders. Cheers again, Happy New Year Richard Harding (Worthing Sussex)
Hi John. Glad you raised the topic of why folk dismiss "advanced riding". I also dislike the term "advanced" as it regularly conjures up visions ( and attitudes) of elitism which often get scoffed at by other riders. My view is that if it improves the riders safety, legality, smoothness, systematic engagement and enables a progressive ride then it can only encourage further appreciation and a desire to continually improve. Despite the plethora of reasons for poor adoption it will undoubtedly take a mammoth paradigm shift in rider attitude to overcome the bias that exists on both sides of the fence. As a national IAM Roadsmart Observer and Masters Mentor over the past 12 years; I have always queried new associates / candidates over their perception of "advanced riding" ? in part to ascertain their needs and objectives from the programme, set goals for myself to help change any misconceptions they have and also to learn from them ... for the benefit of improving the standard of course delivery and how it is structured. As you say ...there is no end to the learning! Neither does the perfect coach nor the perfect rider exist ! Great vids. But please be judicious with some of the overpowering background music :-)
Hi John, thanks for making such an enjoyable series of videos, as being in my late fifties and got my licence last year, you have inspired me to go for further training and hope to improve my skills with ProScot early next year. Once again thanks John. Cheers Alex.
Hi John, I’m back to bikes after 10 years. I was previously a instructor in Edinburgh previously. I found your series enlightening and helpful. I just wanted to thank you for your efforts during lockdown, as I appreciate the opportunity to gain and refresh any knowledge I have. 👍
A great series of videos. I realise you were heavily restricted during the heights of lockdown. I’m just starting my IAM journey after passing my Mods 6 months ago. I used your Mods / CBT videos to help me get my head round some of the stuff during L-Test training. Keep doing what you do best.
Hi John. I'm new to bigger bike and had an off through inexperience and panic on on the 'perfect' bad bend and three broken ribs. Almost ready to get back and I've watch all your vids and have found them SO useful! Be prepared for an enquiry soon as I need to rebuild my confidence and build more experience on solid foundations. I especially liked the 'rant' lol. Best of luck for the future and will be in touch regarding some additional training. Ride safe. John O'Hara.
Hi John, even though this series is four years old, it still merits feedback. A great course, well presented and of course it does not substitute signing up for some rider training. I studied Roadcraft and took lessons with ROSPA for my car. When I got a motorcycle, I applied the learning to my motorcycle along with reading the Motorcycle Roadcraft Manual. Why do people not take up further training after doing their tests ? I think there are probably many reasons. My first thought would be to ask, how do people become aware of such courses and their value? I know that taking lessons and studying Roadcraft changed me as driver/rider and made both more pleasurable to do, I always enjoy riding and driving now! Interestingly, I became aware of Roadcraft and advanced rider/driver training after being given a summons for doing 32mph in 30 mile zone. I attended a driver awareness course that I found very interesting. Afer the course I stayed behind and spoke with the presenters who suggested I look at ROSPA and Roadcaft. Best thing I ever did ! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, skills and passion for riding!
Excellent series of videos. Thanks for the time and effort you have put in to making them. I was new to motorcycles 2 years ago and chose to go on to do advanced or post-test training with a local RoSPA group. Now waiting to do my initial test hopefully in the next month or two. My own experience with post-test training has been really positive and it's doing wonders for my confidence and enjoyment. My local group also has a good social side, which is an added bonus. I think the 3-yearly retests which RoSPA does are a great idea, because they will help keep you sharp and highlight any bad habits that might have crept in to your riding. We're all human. People who have a negaitive attitude towards post-test training don't really bother me. They are entitled to their opinion. I just hope more newly qualified motorcycle riders will take up this sort of training. The benefits of increased motorcyle safety it brings are clear. I think the answer might partly be due to the way it is marketed, which I do think needs some work. I'll be sharing this series and hope you put more videos up in the future. Cheers 👍 Paul p.s. don't let the self-proclaimed experts, trolls & keyboard warriors put you off. You see them everywhere on social media - jumping on anything remotely contentious or misunderstood. I find it very easy to ignore them these days 😀
Excellent feedback and advice Scottish Aviator, very happy to hear you've had positive experiences with post test training. 👍 That's how it suitor be, the good news is that many of the old skool advanced trainers and observers are being retrained or rechipped! Those that are unable to move with the times and use more of a coaching style really need to be removed as they do far more harm than good! I'm slowly getting there being able to ignore the trolls and keyboard warriors, I guess I was just a bit naive. I was shocked at how they conduct themselves on a public platform and from behind their protective screen! Many thanks John Mac 😉
I think what should be taught is, you ride in a safe position you feel comfortable with as long as you adjust the speed to suit your safe entry and exit of corners, I had all these problems when I took my class one 40 years ago, if I followed the instructors advice I would have turned my truck over on every bend, still here after 40 years and accident free, great information john, very open minded.
Absolutely brilliant John, loved the whole series and its just what I needed just now. I recently emailed Pro-Scot to book in for a bronze or silver training course so hopefully you'll respond to that and get me booked in for some 'further' training. Thanks again for all your time making these videos. Cheers, Michael Sherry.
I live in London. The training is , for want of another word idealised. Motor Cycle / Moped riders down here...I see very little observance of many of your very helpful instructions.
Really enjoying this series, John. Just started but jumped to the end as was interested in your comments on "advanced" motorcycle training and the surrounding negativity. I am attending Rider Refinement North in August and looking at IAM training as I want to be a better rider, so kudos to you for putting out some sensible thoughts to help others. I cannot comment on the rest of the series as I need to watch it but so far it's excellent. Also, love the fact you, your dad and your boy did a trip together. I'm planning on doing some trips with my wife (as pillion), so even more important to learn and be safer than I already am. I'd love to attend some training but up in Moray, so would need to plan that. Have a great weekend!
Hmm, I can’t answer to the question. I think you are are asking the wrong question. Ask questions which require a positive response? Why would I take post test training? Same reasons, I watched all 31 video’s, I have passed an MC road test and have full MC licence, I still consider I am a relatively new and inexperienced rider. I watched all 31 to help me to become a better rider and enable me to reduce my risk in riding my motorcycle. I have taken a post test training course, (with the same training centre, I did my basic course, and took a road lessons prior to my road test) It was a completely different kind of “Advanced course”, Similar to Ride like a Pro. For the same reason, plus I thought it would be interesting and fun. It was, I would take again. I watched all 31 of your videos because I found your presentation, interesting, clear, understandable, and very thorough. Particularly the content was very relevant to me. At some time when I am in Scotland. I might try and book an advanced riding course, if it’s possible for a non UK Or EU MC licence holder. Why, I think It would help me to be a better rider, I think I would find it an interesting challenge and fun the way you presented your video’s. Great job thanks,
A positive response simply means engaging without being a troll or a keyboard warrior! Being positive doesn't mean you have to agree, it's ok to disagree in fact debate should be positively encouraged. Bring positive just means engaging with respect shown to one another. Which unfortunately seems to be hard for some people when it comes to social media! No one should have to take personal abuse and trust me I've had enough 'abuse' over these 31 videos to last me a lifetime John! Great to hear that you watched them all the way through I hope you got something out of it.. 👍 Cheers John Mac 😉
Thanks Tony, for your positive feedback. I wish you all the best with your post test training. Not all IAM members are anoraks and stick in the muds! Lots of fresh blood coming in now with good positive attitudes. Of course there were those that had been in for years with good attitudes, unfortunately their good work was often overshadowed by those with elitist attitudes and a micro critical approach to post test training! Cheers John Mac 😉
Yeah John. I too get troubled by folk talking rigidly about "inch Perfect" positioning and 5 or even 7 lane positions. Talk about overcomplicating the subject ( I might even generate some controversy here LOL). To me, the honest answer to a question should begin with "it depends" ? I use the analogy of car tyre positions for 1 and 3, and the "sumpline" or middle of the lane being position 2, which is sometimes the safest and / or cleanest part of the lane ? Ultimately as roadcraft says ... we position our bike for Safety, stability and view .... in that order !
Good work, John. It seems to me that too many folk put barriers up to further training and not just after passing L test. Not surprising given the training costs and times etc coercing people into believing they 'know it all'. As you say, attitude underpins all this and not accepting there's something to be learned every time you're out and about will seriously limit the skill level and ultimately, the enjoyment of the ride.
I was interested to see if I could do Motorcycle Gymkhana without trail braking! Just for all those that say trail braking should never be taught or used out on the roads! I was going to try and fly the proud flag for 'advanced' rider's by only braking on the straights on the Gymkhana course! What straights? I'll set the record for the longest section time! 😂 Edward James Duckett runs Gymkhana Scotland. Edward knows just how much trail braking is used to increase control and stability on the course, using front, rear and a blend of both where appropriate, plus a whole range of other skills. So why are some stick in the mud advanced organisations and riders so against developing these skills? Skills that could one day save your life. 🤔 Surely post test rider development is all about increasing your skills and your understanding and feel for motorcycle control and dynamics. Having an open mind and developing a broad range and blend of techniques used where appropriate to enable you to get more pleasure and enjoyment from your riding with increased safety.... 👍 😃 Cheers John Mac 😉
I have question for all motorcycle "advanced" instructors you mentioned that couple of times but others not even once. So my question is why they don't teach new riders for corner entry on closed throttle? Why? I know that is little bit "advanced" but you must start one day with that and with trail braking...
I'm not quite sure what your question is Laga Nini, but it depends on the type of corner that your entering. In some cases it is appropriate to close the throttle as you enter, in some cases it is appropriate to maintain the throttle. In other words the student should be taught to use the throttle effectively so that they can enter the corner with the appropriate amount of entry speed. Once a rider has set the speed of entry by either using acceleration sense (closing the throttle and using the gears) or using the brakes there is a point when the throttle is opened just enough to maintain the bikes momentum through the corner. This is often referred to as having the bike under drive or under load, but not under acceleration. There is a point at which the throttle can then be applied more and opened up smoothly. The limit point out vanishing point is a very good guide for this and for correct use of the throttle at the appropriate time. If you are approaching the corner and the limit point is stationary or you are still catching it you should have a closed throttle. At the point where the limit point or vanishing point is moving away at the same rate as you are moving forward, you should go back to maintenance throttle and have the bike under drive or under load. At the point where the vanishing point or limit point is moving away faster than the rate you are moving forward you should consider opening up the throttle smoothly off or is safe to do so. In other words, close the throttle of your vision is reducing, maintain your throttle of your vision is being maintained and it is safe to do so and consider opening your throttle to accelerate smoothly of your forward vision is extending and it is safe to do so. Approaching tight bends you will always tend to approach with a closed throttle as you will need to slow. Approaching gentle curving bends you will tend to approach with maintenance throttle off your vision is matched or being maintained. Thanks John Mac
@@proscot1982 yes, exactly. Same topic as trail braking. Everything is alright until that one day when you need all tools you learn, but for many riders it's easiest to run out in a ditch because someone told them to never go in corner with closed throttle, never shift down gear (because engines are expensive 🤣) and never trail brake until you are experience rider. But when is that day when they gonna first time trail brake or someone else gonna press brake for them.....that is a big question. Thanks for your response and keep on going
I agree - let's not think of it as Advanced Training instead it's Skills Development. There's too much pressure from certain bikers to ride a certain way. One of the attractions of biking is not to be a sheep - let's not all make each other sheep. Flexible approach as you say 👍 I want a life of biking - and that means a lifetime of learning. A mix of self training & pro training is the way to go. There should be more courses like this
Thanks C J good to see more bikers out there with an open mind willing to learn new skills and to try different techniques and who can also think laterally... 👍 😃 Cheers John Mac 😉
I've really enjoyed your video series. It's a shame people can't be more supportive when someone goes to so much effort to help others learn and improve. I put off joining IAM Roadsmart for a good ten years, what a mistake that was! I've meet so many great people and had so much fun. I do remember be really nervous on test day but that made the fact I passed so much more rewarding 😀 I've seen most of the things you mentioned but do what I can to portray a positive attitude towards 'putting yourself out there' and supporting people who have recently joined the Bristol IAM Roadsmart group. Thanks again John and hopefully you'll create some more videos during the next lockdown 😉
Great to get your feedback Dervman, It's also very encouraging to see certain groups around the country have a much more modern approach with regards to training and development. Our industry was out of touch with modern teaching/coaching methods and tended to use a very traditional fault based system with a tell, tell tell style. It's great to see we're now encouraging more of a coaching style to be used, ask, ask ask! Involving the pupil and encouraging them to reflect on their own performance and to be encouraged to take an active part in their own personal development. This positive based style is so much more effective and creates a much happier experience and environment. I noticed that your Bristol group is one of those groups and it's a breath of fresh air. Outward looking, open minded, lateral thinking, flexible and prepared to move with the times and modern thinking. Keep up the good work, eventually all the groups will need to follow your example. PS It's also great to see IAM update their own website. Identifying clearly the type of individuals they are now looking for to be IAM observers and the interpersonal and people shills required. I notice they even explain clearly the experience you will have with the examiner! It's all moving in the right direction and it's so encouraging...👍 😃 All the best John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982 I've had a read of the comments on one of your other videos, it's all very strange. One of the people who took exception is a motorcycle trainer with a popular TH-cam channel. I'm not sure what to make of it all! Can't help but think some people are a little stuck in their ways. There has been a lot of noise about trail braking on TH-cam recently so I found your video on that super helpful. It explained how and when it might be used, personally I don't go into corners fast enough to need it but I still found it really helpful (I'm slow and steady 😀). Don't let the naysayers put you off creating content, you have a wealth of experience that's backed up by certificates so that puts you in a good position to be sharing your knowledge.
@@TheDervMan Hey Dervman. Because someone doesn't agree with someone else, doesn't mean they're stuck in their ways. If you've seen my general positioning and common mistakes upload you'll see that I don't agree with extreme positioning on bends as any part of the bike being over the white line is illegal and the other side is too close to the kerb. I'm a very open minded rider/instructor but do take exception to being called a keyboard warrior and troll when I state facts that trail braking is not in any official publication and is not encouraged by ANY examiner or trainer I know. I'll be doing an upload soon and can guarantee if someone doesn't agree with me I certainly won't get very aggressive, abusive and personal about them as he clearly did with me as I don't have that level of ego. Just because someone has paper qualifications, doesn't mean they are teaching the way that body has taught them. I'm a qualified private pilot but I'm by no means anywhere near perfect at it.
@@RoadcraftNottinghamin your video about position you are dong 34mph in a 30 for a considerable distance. You then justify this by stating motorcycles having a 10% speedo error and so it's ok! So you are promoting 33 in a 30, 44 in a 40, 55 in a 50 and 66 on a National single carriageway and 77 on a Motorway and national speed limit Dual Carriageway! I'm sorry but I can't take anything you have to say seriously after that.
@@proscot1982 I'm not aware I told people to do 10% anywhere other than slower speed limits but if I did, it would have been in that moment as I usually just say 2 over ...but... If you did read 66 on your clock on a single carriageway, police calibrated speed would be approximately 60-63 which is acceptable. There are examples of your riding that several observers and a couple of examiners have commented on to me but I really can't be bothered to discuss as you won't be told. Having your bike over a solid white line when taking a left hander like you did, however is illegal, crossing or straddling which means the offside of the vehicle. Looks like we have no respect for each other and you can't have an adult discussion without being aggressive and derogatory like you did with myself and that poor lady on your Facebook page who pointed out your aggressive/unsmooth position changes on your upload. You clearly can't take criticism so I think it's best leave you to your channel and I'll do my thing. This ain't going to get us anywhere without descending into a slanging match and I'm too old for that so I will not reply to you from now on. Feel free to delete this thread and I won't bother you again. Cheers.
The ability to brake when in a corner, because of perhaps either poor assessment of the hazard, or an unforeseen change in circumstances, is indeed a vital skill to have. It is however a totally different animal to deliberately braking through the initial stage of every corner in a bid to hold your straighline speed for longer. The first example I have given is not trail braking; the second one is. Roadcraft's use of braking on a bend is definitely not a justification of your trail braking techniques. For me, one of the great qualities of Roadcraft is that it works for any, and every, vehicle. For example, the positions we adopt on a bike in corners will be exactly those used by a truck driver an artic in order to keep his trailer either out of the hedge, or to stop it encroaching on approaching traffic's lane. Let's have a look at cornering in an artic. If you enter the first part of a corner without the bit that weighs 6-7 tonnes (the tractor unit) pulling the part that weighs 30+ tonnes (the loaded trailer), it feels horribly unstable. With trucks you adjust speed well before the corner, take a gear if needed, and drive through. This technique is even more important with a lighter vehicle towing a trailer fitted with overrun brakes. It is also the best (safest) way to corner on a bike. There are quicker ways on a track, but we are dealing with road riding. Another one of the reasons why uptake of post-test training is poor is that a lot of people delivering the training have an inadequate grasp of the subject and in my experience potential customers can see through that.
Thanks for your input David, all your points were covered fully in the previous videos and fully explained from the basic level through to a more skilled level for riders who want to develop their skills. The series is 'based' around Roadcraft but uses other recognised techniques from other books. As you know this is a bike series it was not designed for truck drivers whilst I agree there are similarities there are also clearly major differences in dynamics and machine control between the two types of vehicle. Cheers John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982, I would disagree with your opinion regarding major differences in dynamics: we are talking about moving vehicles and the laws of physics. As an example may I go on to cite what one does in a corner when a vehicle (of any sort) begins to lose traction? Roadcraft advises us to remove the basic cause of the skid. Therefore, if one has reached what you wrongly thought was the appropriate speed for the bend and road surface, taken a gear if required, and then balanced the throttle to maintain slight application of power, you can simply roll off the throttle if the vehicle begins to slide. Hopefully you will then make it around. However, if you are entering a bend while trail braking and the vehicle begins to slide, what would you recommend? Releasing the brakes (as Roadcraft advises) to remove the basic cause isn't going to be much of a help, as you are already going into the bend too fast to make it around the corner (if not, why were you braking?). Releasing brakes may stop the slide, but you still wont get safely around the bend, so what would you advise a rider, or driver, to do in those circumstances? I find it a bit strange that in your video you justify your rant by citing all the bits in Roadcraft that you claim back up your use of trail braking. When someone comes back at you, you then claim that the series also uses 'recognised techniques from other books'. I would say that just because someone has written something in a book it does not become a truth. I bow to your track experience, but that does not necessarily make you the right person to teach safe techniques for road riding. I would never claim that I had anything at all to teach about racing merely because I have a background in teaching Roadcraft.
@@daviddaw999 despite being a multiple champion racer, my track experience and success doesn't even come close to my instructional experience and qualifications. I'm afriad we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can continue to teach the basics. I teach the basics of what you're suggesting at CBT and DAS. However my post test training takes their skills on to another level. My post students want to know far more than what they learned at L Test. Cheers John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982, your 'you can continue to teach the basics' remark is both a little wide of the mark and rather rude. I consider it rude, because you make an assumption about both my knowledge of the subject, and my abilities in comparison to yours. Perhaps you might like to know a little something of my background? Firstly, I am not currently involved in teaching anyone except children to ride bicycles as part of the Bikeability scheme, but I was taught to drive at the Metropolitan Police Driving School in 1978. I quickly became a Class 1 Driver, being Top Driver and Top Student on that and every other course I attended at Hendon. In 1982 I returned to Hendon as an Instructor; at the time I was the youngest Instructor ever to be appointed to a Police Driving School. I spent 5 years there instructing on the Advanced Car Wing teaching mainly coppers but also civilians such as Maggie Thatcher's & Geoffrey Howe's drivers. I also drove visiting Heads of State on Close Protection Duties. I left there and went into the Traffic Patrol, becoming a Police Motorcyclist in the process. While in that department I eventually became a Fatal Collision Investigator. I am accepted as an Expert Witness in both Collision Investigation and driving matters in general. Following retirement I worked first as a Consultant for a number of Advanced Driver Training companies for 5 years and then as a Road Safety Officer for a County Council for over 10 years. I could go on and on about my driving history, but hopefully you might now guess that I have lived and breathed Roadcraft to an exceptional standard for over 40 years. I have no doubt that you could easily make me look stupid on a race track, but when it comes to Roadcraft the tables might well be turned. I am not going to engage further with someone whose ignorance leads them to make wrongful assumptions about me and my abilities, so I am going to leave this discussion. Good luck.
@@daviddaw999 I'm not being derogatory, the fact is your promoting a very basic technique. I don't disagree with it, we teach braking whilst upright at at CBT L Test level. I already explained the basics in 3 previous videos. I have also explained where trail braking can be used and is useful. I have also explained the dangers of used incorrectly. You don't disagree that trail braking is a useful and very valid technique. You seem to be upset that I've said you can keep the throttle open longer on the straights if you trail brake and that's a fact. However I have given lots of other situations where it can be useful. Let's reword it for you. If you've accidentally maintained your speed on the straight too long and you've not closed your throttle early enough and commenced your braking early enough to be able to release the brakes fully whilst still upright before entering the corner. Trail braking is a technique which will enable you to deal with this situation and safely and accurately adjust your speed before entry. (We can all make mistakes! Surely York agree with that? 🤔). But all that comes down to the same thing. We're only playing with words here. Personally I don't feel the need to go onto other peoples videos and try to find something to slate their work which they are doing for free to help others. I certainly wouldn't go on bragging, name dropping and blowing my own trumpet. I could of course just delete your comments and block you. But your a perfect example of what's wrong with some post test trainers and the attitude of those who see themselves as superior to others. The keyboard warriors and biker trolls that add nothing with their out of date negative institutionalised ideas. I'll leave others to make up their own mind about your comments and my series.
Love the way you explain how the Roadcraft manual is open to interpretation. It's like the bible/ Quran. You have those that use that literature as a guidance for their path in life and they will generally have an enjoyable and happy life. Then you will also have those that interpret it in a certain way and anyone who does not rigidly follow that interpretation is the son of Satan. These people are usually too full of hate for those that don't blindly follow their interpretation to enjoy life. (I'm not in anyway religious - just using it as an example)
Well I don’t know why so many people are moaning about the series. I have watched all of them and put everything I have learnt into practice. My riding has become a lot smoother, controlled and I’m becoming a lot more confident in my ability and the bikes ability. I look forward to every time I get to go for a ride.
Thank you John for taking the time to make this series, much appreciated.
Hi John. Many thanks for taking the plunge and putting this series of videos together, I really enjoyed them. I did my advanced test a couple of years ago over the summer of 2019. I missed the training so much over the winter that last year I went back to carry on training as a local observer so I can give something back to the group and share the techniques and fun with others.
Regarding the varied interpretations of Motorcycle Roadcraft or any other for that matter, there’s a phrase that is used quite regularly within our group and I’m sure others too and that is “it depends!” as there is very rarely if ever a single fixed answer and by exploring this the rider is encouraged to think how to use the principles to develop their riding plan given the unique circumstances.
I’m looking to continue my learning journey next year but hopefully later this year when we’re out of lockdown I’ll be able to help other riders along their way👍
Cheers
Wow! Thank you John for taking the time to share your knowledge, really interesting and like Graham below said, i have
been totally hooked from the start, although i found PS -8 video first, then watched 9,10 and then re started back at PS-1 just
before Christmas and have just come to the end at PS-31.
I have just got back into bikes since meeting up with a few pals in Cambodia for 6 days off road tour 4 years ago, which scared me half to death :-)
Now 54 years young, i felt it was time for more training and signed up for Advanced training with IAMS, however what with Covid, and a year
on, still have not manged to get course finished.
I certainly agree though, whilst attending one club meeting local to me, i really did feel like the new boy and there was definitely a real sense
of "Them and Us" vibe to the extent I have not wanted to go to any further meetings.
That said my Observer has been excellent and also one of the Master's certified riders gave up a few hours with me, and gave me some very clear
and constructive and positive critique.
Would love to come to Bonny Scotland at some point and buy you a beer for a litte thank you for your time given to my self and hopefully many other riders.
Cheers again,
Happy New Year
Richard Harding (Worthing Sussex)
Hi John.
Glad you raised the topic of why folk dismiss "advanced riding". I also dislike the term "advanced" as it regularly conjures up visions ( and attitudes) of elitism which often get scoffed at by other riders.
My view is that if it improves the riders safety, legality, smoothness, systematic engagement and enables a progressive ride then it can only encourage further appreciation and a desire to continually improve.
Despite the plethora of reasons for poor adoption it will undoubtedly take a mammoth paradigm shift in rider attitude to overcome the bias that exists on both sides of the fence.
As a national IAM Roadsmart Observer and Masters Mentor over the past 12 years; I have always queried new associates / candidates over their perception of "advanced riding" ? in part to ascertain their needs and objectives from the programme, set goals for myself to help change any misconceptions they have and also to learn from them ... for the benefit of improving the standard of course delivery and how it is structured.
As you say ...there is no end to the learning!
Neither does the perfect coach nor the perfect rider exist !
Great vids. But please be judicious with some of the overpowering background music :-)
Fantastic series John, was hooked all the way through from day 1 👍
Thanks Graham for taking the time to watch the video series and I'm hair to hear you've enjoyed it.
Cheers
John Mac 😉
Hi John, thanks for making such an enjoyable series of videos, as being in my late fifties and got my licence last year, you have inspired me to go for further training and hope to improve my skills with ProScot early next year.
Once again thanks John.
Cheers Alex.
Hi John, I’m back to bikes after 10 years. I was previously a instructor in Edinburgh previously. I found your series enlightening and helpful. I just wanted to thank you for your efforts during lockdown, as I appreciate the opportunity to gain and refresh any knowledge I have. 👍
Thanks for your positive feedback and encouragement... 👍 😃
Cheers
John Mac 😉
A great series of videos. I realise you were heavily restricted during the heights of lockdown.
I’m just starting my IAM journey after passing my Mods 6 months ago. I used your Mods / CBT videos to help me get my head round some of the stuff during L-Test training.
Keep doing what you do best.
Hi John, for me it would be the rigidity of it all, the authority and holier than whole attitude. Great videos, enjoyed the series
Hi John. I'm new to bigger bike and had an off through inexperience and panic on on the 'perfect' bad bend and three broken ribs. Almost ready to get back and I've watch all your vids and have found them SO useful! Be prepared for an enquiry soon as I need to rebuild my confidence and build more experience on solid foundations. I especially liked the 'rant' lol. Best of luck for the future and will be in touch regarding some additional training. Ride safe. John O'Hara.
Hi John, even though this series is four years old, it still merits feedback. A great course, well presented and of course it does not substitute signing up for some rider training. I studied Roadcraft and took lessons with ROSPA for my car. When I got a motorcycle, I applied the learning to my motorcycle along with reading the Motorcycle Roadcraft Manual. Why do people not take up further training after doing their tests ? I think there are probably many reasons. My first thought would be to ask, how do people become aware of such courses and their value? I know that taking lessons and studying Roadcraft changed me as driver/rider and made both more pleasurable to do, I always enjoy riding and driving now! Interestingly, I became aware of Roadcraft and advanced rider/driver training after being given a summons for doing 32mph in 30 mile zone. I attended a driver awareness course that I found very interesting. Afer the course I stayed behind and spoke with the presenters who suggested I look at ROSPA and Roadcaft. Best thing I ever did !
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, skills and passion for riding!
Excellent series of videos. Thanks for the time and effort you have put in to making them. I was new to motorcycles 2 years ago and chose to go on to do advanced or post-test training with a local RoSPA group. Now waiting to do my initial test hopefully in the next month or two.
My own experience with post-test training has been really positive and it's doing wonders for my confidence and enjoyment. My local group also has a good social side, which is an added bonus. I think the 3-yearly retests which RoSPA does are a great idea, because they will help keep you sharp and highlight any bad habits that might have crept in to your riding. We're all human.
People who have a negaitive attitude towards post-test training don't really bother me. They are entitled to their opinion. I just hope more newly qualified motorcycle riders will take up this sort of training. The benefits of increased motorcyle safety it brings are clear. I think the answer might partly be due to the way it is marketed, which I do think needs some work. I'll be sharing this series and hope you put more videos up in the future.
Cheers 👍
Paul
p.s. don't let the self-proclaimed experts, trolls & keyboard warriors put you off. You see them everywhere on social media - jumping on anything remotely contentious or misunderstood. I find it very easy to ignore them these days 😀
Excellent feedback and advice Scottish Aviator, very happy to hear you've had positive experiences with post test training. 👍 That's how it suitor be, the good news is that many of the old skool advanced trainers and observers are being retrained or rechipped! Those that are unable to move with the times and use more of a coaching style really need to be removed as they do far more harm than good! I'm slowly getting there being able to ignore the trolls and keyboard warriors, I guess I was just a bit naive. I was shocked at how they conduct themselves on a public platform and from behind their protective screen!
Many thanks
John Mac 😉
I think what should be taught is, you ride in a safe position you feel comfortable with as long as you adjust the speed to suit your safe entry and exit of corners, I had all these problems when I took my class one 40 years ago, if I followed the instructors advice I would have turned my truck over on every bend, still here after 40 years and accident free, great information john, very open minded.
Absolutely brilliant John, loved the whole series and its just what I needed just now. I recently emailed Pro-Scot to book in for a bronze or silver training course so hopefully you'll respond to that and get me booked in for some 'further' training. Thanks again for all your time making these videos. Cheers, Michael Sherry.
Thank you John for taking the time to make this series. I can already feel a marked improvement in my riding, still lots of practicing to do.
I live in London. The training is , for want of another word idealised. Motor Cycle / Moped riders down here...I see very little observance of many of your very helpful instructions.
Really enjoying this series, John. Just started but jumped to the end as was interested in your comments on "advanced" motorcycle training and the surrounding negativity.
I am attending Rider Refinement North in August and looking at IAM training as I want to be a better rider, so kudos to you for putting out some sensible thoughts to help others.
I cannot comment on the rest of the series as I need to watch it but so far it's excellent.
Also, love the fact you, your dad and your boy did a trip together. I'm planning on doing some trips with my wife (as pillion), so even more important to learn and be safer than I already am.
I'd love to attend some training but up in Moray, so would need to plan that. Have a great weekend!
Hmm, I can’t answer to the question.
I think you are are asking the wrong question.
Ask questions which require a positive response?
Why would I take post test training?
Same reasons, I watched all 31 video’s,
I have passed an MC road test and have full MC licence, I still consider I am a relatively new and inexperienced rider.
I watched all 31 to help me to become a better rider and enable me to reduce my risk in riding my motorcycle.
I have taken a post test training course, (with the same training centre, I did my basic course, and took a road lessons prior to my road test) It was a completely different kind of “Advanced course”, Similar to Ride like a Pro.
For the same reason, plus I thought it would be interesting and fun. It was, I would take again.
I watched all 31 of your videos because I found your presentation, interesting, clear, understandable, and very thorough. Particularly the content was very relevant to me.
At some time when I am in Scotland. I might try and book an advanced riding course, if it’s possible for a non UK Or EU MC licence holder.
Why, I think It would help me to be a better rider, I think I would find it an interesting challenge and fun the way you presented your video’s.
Great job thanks,
A positive response simply means engaging without being a troll or a keyboard warrior! Being positive doesn't mean you have to agree, it's ok to disagree in fact debate should be positively encouraged. Bring positive just means engaging with respect shown to one another. Which unfortunately seems to be hard for some people when it comes to social media! No one should have to take personal abuse and trust me I've had enough 'abuse' over these 31 videos to last me a lifetime John!
Great to hear that you watched them all the way through I hope you got something out of it.. 👍
Cheers
John Mac 😉
Very well presented from ps 1 to ps 31 lernt alot , cheers john start my iam shortly big big 👍to you .
Thanks Tony, for your positive feedback. I wish you all the best with your post test training. Not all IAM members are anoraks and stick in the muds! Lots of fresh blood coming in now with good positive attitudes. Of course there were those that had been in for years with good attitudes, unfortunately their good work was often overshadowed by those with elitist attitudes and a micro critical approach to post test training!
Cheers
John Mac 😉
Yeah John. I too get troubled by folk talking rigidly about "inch Perfect" positioning and 5 or even 7 lane positions. Talk about overcomplicating the subject ( I might even generate some controversy here LOL).
To me, the honest answer to a question should begin with "it depends" ?
I use the analogy of car tyre positions for 1 and 3, and the "sumpline" or middle of the lane being position 2, which is sometimes the safest and / or cleanest part of the lane ?
Ultimately as roadcraft says ... we position our bike for Safety, stability and view .... in that order !
Good work, John.
It seems to me that too many folk put barriers up to further training and not just after passing L test. Not surprising given the training costs and times etc coercing people into believing they 'know it all'.
As you say, attitude underpins all this and not accepting there's something to be learned every time you're out and about will seriously limit the skill level and ultimately, the enjoyment of the ride.
I was interested to see if I could do Motorcycle Gymkhana without trail braking! Just for all those that say trail braking should never be taught or used out on the roads!
I was going to try and fly the proud flag for 'advanced' rider's by only braking on the straights on the Gymkhana course! What straights? I'll set the record for the longest section time! 😂
Edward James Duckett runs Gymkhana Scotland. Edward knows just how much trail braking is used to increase control and stability on the course, using front, rear and a blend of both where appropriate, plus a whole range of other skills. So why are some stick in the mud advanced organisations and riders so against developing these skills? Skills that could one day save your life. 🤔
Surely post test rider development is all about increasing your skills and your understanding and feel for motorcycle control and dynamics. Having an open mind and developing a broad range and blend of techniques used where appropriate to enable you to get more pleasure and enjoyment from your riding with increased safety.... 👍 😃
Cheers
John Mac 😉
great series
I have question for all motorcycle "advanced" instructors you mentioned that couple of times but others not even once. So my question is why they don't teach new riders for corner entry on closed throttle? Why? I know that is little bit "advanced" but you must start one day with that and with trail braking...
I'm not quite sure what your question is Laga Nini, but it depends on the type of corner that your entering. In some cases it is appropriate to close the throttle as you enter, in some cases it is appropriate to maintain the throttle. In other words the student should be taught to use the throttle effectively so that they can enter the corner with the appropriate amount of entry speed. Once a rider has set the speed of entry by either using acceleration sense (closing the throttle and using the gears) or using the brakes there is a point when the throttle is opened just enough to maintain the bikes momentum through the corner. This is often referred to as having the bike under drive or under load, but not under acceleration. There is a point at which the throttle can then be applied more and opened up smoothly. The limit point out vanishing point is a very good guide for this and for correct use of the throttle at the appropriate time. If you are approaching the corner and the limit point is stationary or you are still catching it you should have a closed throttle. At the point where the limit point or vanishing point is moving away at the same rate as you are moving forward, you should go back to maintenance throttle and have the bike under drive or under load. At the point where the vanishing point or limit point is moving away faster than the rate you are moving forward you should consider opening up the throttle smoothly off or is safe to do so. In other words, close the throttle of your vision is reducing, maintain your throttle of your vision is being maintained and it is safe to do so and consider opening your throttle to accelerate smoothly of your forward vision is extending and it is safe to do so.
Approaching tight bends you will always tend to approach with a closed throttle as you will need to slow. Approaching gentle curving bends you will tend to approach with maintenance throttle off your vision is matched or being maintained.
Thanks
John Mac
@@proscot1982 yes, exactly. Same topic as trail braking. Everything is alright until that one day when you need all tools you learn, but for many riders it's easiest to run out in a ditch because someone told them to never go in corner with closed throttle, never shift down gear (because engines are expensive 🤣) and never trail brake until you are experience rider. But when is that day when they gonna first time trail brake or someone else gonna press brake for them.....that is a big question. Thanks for your response and keep on going
I agree - let's not think of it as Advanced Training instead it's Skills Development. There's too much pressure from certain bikers to ride a certain way. One of the attractions of biking is not to be a sheep - let's not all make each other sheep. Flexible approach as you say 👍 I want a life of biking - and that means a lifetime of learning. A mix of self training & pro training is the way to go. There should be more courses like this
Thanks C J good to see more bikers out there with an open mind willing to learn new skills and to try different techniques and who can also think laterally... 👍 😃
Cheers
John Mac 😉
I've really enjoyed your video series. It's a shame people can't be more supportive when someone goes to so much effort to help others learn and improve. I put off joining IAM Roadsmart for a good ten years, what a mistake that was! I've meet so many great people and had so much fun. I do remember be really nervous on test day but that made the fact I passed so much more rewarding 😀
I've seen most of the things you mentioned but do what I can to portray a positive attitude towards 'putting yourself out there' and supporting people who have recently joined the Bristol IAM Roadsmart group.
Thanks again John and hopefully you'll create some more videos during the next lockdown 😉
Great to get your feedback Dervman,
It's also very encouraging to see certain groups around the country have a much more modern approach with regards to training and development.
Our industry was out of touch with modern teaching/coaching methods and tended to use a very traditional fault based system with a tell, tell tell style. It's great to see we're now encouraging more of a coaching style to be used, ask, ask ask! Involving the pupil and encouraging them to reflect on their own performance and to be encouraged to take an active part in their own personal development. This positive based style is so much more effective and creates a much happier experience and environment. I noticed that your Bristol group is one of those groups and it's a breath of fresh air. Outward looking, open minded, lateral thinking, flexible and prepared to move with the times and modern thinking. Keep up the good work, eventually all the groups will need to follow your example.
PS It's also great to see IAM update their own website. Identifying clearly the type of individuals they are now looking for to be IAM observers and the interpersonal and people shills required. I notice they even explain clearly the experience you will have with the examiner! It's all moving in the right direction and it's so encouraging...👍 😃
All the best
John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982 I've had a read of the comments on one of your other videos, it's all very strange. One of the people who took exception is a motorcycle trainer with a popular TH-cam channel. I'm not sure what to make of it all! Can't help but think some people are a little stuck in their ways. There has been a lot of noise about trail braking on TH-cam recently so I found your video on that super helpful. It explained how and when it might be used, personally I don't go into corners fast enough to need it but I still found it really helpful (I'm slow and steady 😀). Don't let the naysayers put you off creating content, you have a wealth of experience that's backed up by certificates so that puts you in a good position to be sharing your knowledge.
@@TheDervMan Hey Dervman. Because someone doesn't agree with someone else, doesn't mean they're stuck in their ways. If you've seen my general positioning and common mistakes upload you'll see that I don't agree with extreme positioning on bends as any part of the bike being over the white line is illegal and the other side is too close to the kerb. I'm a very open minded rider/instructor but do take exception to being called a keyboard warrior and troll when I state facts that trail braking is not in any official publication and is not encouraged by ANY examiner or trainer I know. I'll be doing an upload soon and can guarantee if someone doesn't agree with me I certainly won't get very aggressive, abusive and personal about them as he clearly did with me as I don't have that level of ego. Just because someone has paper qualifications, doesn't mean they are teaching the way that body has taught them. I'm a qualified private pilot but I'm by no means anywhere near perfect at it.
@@RoadcraftNottinghamin your video about position you are dong 34mph in a 30 for a considerable distance.
You then justify this by stating motorcycles having a 10% speedo error and so it's ok! So you are promoting 33 in a 30, 44 in a 40, 55 in a 50 and 66 on a National single carriageway and 77 on a Motorway and national speed limit Dual Carriageway!
I'm sorry but I can't take anything you have to say seriously after that.
@@proscot1982 I'm not aware I told people to do 10% anywhere other than slower speed limits but if I did, it would have been in that moment as I usually just say 2 over ...but... If you did read 66 on your clock on a single carriageway, police calibrated speed would be approximately 60-63 which is acceptable. There are examples of your riding that several observers and a couple of examiners have commented on to me but I really can't be bothered to discuss as you won't be told. Having your bike over a solid white line when taking a left hander like you did, however is illegal, crossing or straddling which means the offside of the vehicle. Looks like we have no respect for each other and you can't have an adult discussion without being aggressive and derogatory like you did with myself and that poor lady on your Facebook page who pointed out your aggressive/unsmooth position changes on your upload. You clearly can't take criticism so I think it's best leave you to your channel and I'll do my thing. This ain't going to get us anywhere without descending into a slanging match and I'm too old for that so I will not reply to you from now on. Feel free to delete this thread and I won't bother you again. Cheers.
The ability to brake when in a corner, because of perhaps either poor assessment of the hazard, or an unforeseen change in circumstances, is indeed a vital skill to have. It is however a totally different animal to deliberately braking through the initial stage of every corner in a bid to hold your straighline speed for longer. The first example I have given is not trail braking; the second one is. Roadcraft's use of braking on a bend is definitely not a justification of your trail braking techniques.
For me, one of the great qualities of Roadcraft is that it works for any, and every, vehicle. For example, the positions we adopt on a bike in corners will be exactly those used by a truck driver an artic in order to keep his trailer either out of the hedge, or to stop it encroaching on approaching traffic's lane.
Let's have a look at cornering in an artic. If you enter the first part of a corner without the bit that weighs 6-7 tonnes (the tractor unit) pulling the part that weighs 30+ tonnes (the loaded trailer), it feels horribly unstable. With trucks you adjust speed well before the corner, take a gear if needed, and drive through. This technique is even more important with a lighter vehicle towing a trailer fitted with overrun brakes. It is also the best (safest) way to corner on a bike. There are quicker ways on a track, but we are dealing with road riding.
Another one of the reasons why uptake of post-test training is poor is that a lot of people delivering the training have an inadequate grasp of the subject and in my experience potential customers can see through that.
Thanks for your input David, all your points were covered fully in the previous videos and fully explained from the basic level through to a more skilled level for riders who want to develop their skills. The series is 'based' around Roadcraft but uses other recognised techniques from other books.
As you know this is a bike series it was not designed for truck drivers whilst I agree there are similarities there are also clearly major differences in dynamics and machine control between the two types of vehicle.
Cheers
John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982,
I would disagree with your opinion regarding major differences in dynamics: we are talking about moving vehicles and the laws of physics.
As an example may I go on to cite what one does in a corner when a vehicle (of any sort) begins to lose traction? Roadcraft advises us to remove the basic cause of the skid. Therefore, if one has reached what you wrongly thought was the appropriate speed for the bend and road surface, taken a gear if required, and then balanced the throttle to maintain slight application of power, you can simply roll off the throttle if the vehicle begins to slide. Hopefully you will then make it around.
However, if you are entering a bend while trail braking and the vehicle begins to slide, what would you recommend? Releasing the brakes (as Roadcraft advises) to remove the basic cause isn't going to be much of a help, as you are already going into the bend too fast to make it around the corner (if not, why were you braking?). Releasing brakes may stop the slide, but you still wont get safely around the bend, so what would you advise a rider, or driver, to do in those circumstances?
I find it a bit strange that in your video you justify your rant by citing all the bits in Roadcraft that you claim back up your use of trail braking. When someone comes back at you, you then claim that the series also uses 'recognised techniques from other books'. I would say that just because someone has written something in a book it does not become a truth. I bow to your track experience, but that does not necessarily make you the right person to teach safe techniques for road riding. I would never claim that I had anything at all to teach about racing merely because I have a background in teaching Roadcraft.
@@daviddaw999 despite being a multiple champion racer, my track experience and success doesn't even come close to my instructional experience and qualifications.
I'm afriad we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can continue to teach the basics.
I teach the basics of what you're suggesting at CBT and DAS. However my post test training takes their skills on to another level. My post students want to know far more than what they learned at L Test.
Cheers
John Mac 😉
@@proscot1982, your 'you can continue to teach the basics' remark is both a little wide of the mark and rather rude. I consider it rude, because you make an assumption about both my knowledge of the subject, and my abilities in comparison to yours. Perhaps you might like to know a little something of my background?
Firstly, I am not currently involved in teaching anyone except children to ride bicycles as part of the Bikeability scheme, but I was taught to drive at the Metropolitan Police Driving School in 1978. I quickly became a Class 1 Driver, being Top Driver and Top Student on that and every other course I attended at Hendon. In 1982 I returned to Hendon as an Instructor; at the time I was the youngest Instructor ever to be appointed to a Police Driving School. I spent 5 years there instructing on the Advanced Car Wing teaching mainly coppers but also civilians such as Maggie Thatcher's & Geoffrey Howe's drivers. I also drove visiting Heads of State on Close Protection Duties. I left there and went into the Traffic Patrol, becoming a Police Motorcyclist in the process. While in that department I eventually became a Fatal Collision Investigator. I am accepted as an Expert Witness in both Collision Investigation and driving matters in general. Following retirement I worked first as a Consultant for a number of Advanced Driver Training companies for 5 years and then as a Road Safety Officer for a County Council for over 10 years. I could go on and on about my driving history, but hopefully you might now guess that I have lived and breathed Roadcraft to an exceptional standard for over 40 years.
I have no doubt that you could easily make me look stupid on a race track, but when it comes to Roadcraft the tables might well be turned. I am not going to engage further with someone whose ignorance leads them to make wrongful assumptions about me and my abilities, so I am going to leave this discussion. Good luck.
@@daviddaw999 I'm not being derogatory, the fact is your promoting a very basic technique. I don't disagree with it, we teach braking whilst upright at at CBT L Test level. I already explained the basics in 3 previous videos. I have also explained where trail braking can be used and is useful. I have also explained the dangers of used incorrectly.
You don't disagree that trail braking is a useful and very valid technique. You seem to be upset that I've said you can keep the throttle open longer on the straights if you trail brake and that's a fact. However I have given lots of other situations where it can be useful. Let's reword it for you.
If you've accidentally maintained your speed on the straight too long and you've not closed your throttle early enough and commenced your braking early enough to be able to release the brakes fully whilst still upright before entering the corner. Trail braking is a technique which will enable you to deal with this situation and safely and accurately adjust your speed before entry. (We can all make mistakes! Surely York agree with that? 🤔). But all that comes down to the same thing. We're only playing with words here.
Personally I don't feel the need to go onto other peoples videos and try to find something to slate their work which they are doing for free to help others. I certainly wouldn't go on bragging, name dropping and blowing my own trumpet.
I could of course just delete your comments and block you. But your a perfect example of what's wrong with some post test trainers and the attitude of those who see themselves as superior to others. The keyboard warriors and biker trolls that add nothing with their out of date negative institutionalised ideas.
I'll leave others to make up their own mind about your comments and my series.
Love the way you explain how the Roadcraft manual is open to interpretation.
It's like the bible/ Quran.
You have those that use that literature as a guidance for their path in life and they will generally have an enjoyable and happy life.
Then you will also have those that interpret it in a certain way and anyone who does not rigidly follow that interpretation is the son of Satan. These people are usually too full of hate for those that don't blindly follow their interpretation to enjoy life.
(I'm not in anyway religious - just using it as an example)