I've saw a rapid increase in recent years of middle class kids emerging from art school having enjoyed all that the experience had to offer, both academically and socially, while the poorer kids have had to work 2 jobs and shoehorn their studies into the mix in order just to get by. Here in scotland, art school remains free to Scottish students, but the material cost of living, including rent, food, energy bills and clothing not to mention art materials, is ever increasing while wages stagnate.
Watching this in 2022... I do get wrong vibes. Tables have flipped, but radically. Unless one occupies the stereotype of neo-dictionary noun, goes ultra-left, ultra-woke, ultra-unreal... Hair gimmicky green or purple... Bloke being feminist and hiding a Hammer & Sickle t-shirt below the man-dress... Your days might be cancelled. ANTIFA-LGBT-BLM are sure to look up something to cancel.
So true. Art is for the middle classes here. I worked 2 jobs in my Degree the 80’s and was mediocre. I did practice as research in Dance Anthropology and got a distinction. I was still working but My Writing was really academic from teaching it - so I Made it … cool
The low self ,high self dichotomy. :) I think talking In a informal way is good in a general "common sence" kind of way. Talking in a bookish way hones in on people who enjoy reading the stuff that's often written in flowery language and requires a level of translation or decoding, causing a stilted tone, almost "towing the line", in a self aware style of way of working with "what we know". "We" being everyone who feels they invest time and personal research in the subject in a broad way. We have art for its face value first person, and then contemporary art as this "ever evolving naritive" that sort of floats about as blob affected by magazines or blogs or auction sale statistics etc. But the internet is changing that. For example; I go to get a burger cus I'm hungry but I want a vegetarian burger. The stilted part is when I say it's cus I'm against the innificiancies of meat production versus making a burger from vegetables, and then I say; "what are your Veeegaaahn options" and the butcher is like :l . In this way I think these two are a great combo. I'd say It's still controversial for many to persue education as a hobby after formal education. Education seems to leave people unaware they are also allowed to learn things at there own pace in their free time as a hobby or part of just growing as a person. The stilted/"stilted" tone is academic. I love contemporary art for that. You get to hear what researchers of all types are thinking,researchers like artists. In a way they are both researchers and artists. Exciting times ( I wrote this 28 minutes into the talk :p) 34:29 is interesting. In science you have pier review, it aims to be pragmatic. In art you have critics who judge things subjectively. I like that they cover art as a craft and also contemporary art being more involved in how the art work relates to how it's written about, experienced, context etc. Speciality coffee is almost like an artwork, like James Hoffman's TH-cam channel. His TH-cam "content" informs the viewer in a broad way about coffee for free, it so happens he's a top UK coffee roaster. Win win.
Every time I see Sarah Thornton, she speaks like a business person or politician. Always more focused on promoting herself but when it comes to art, always superficial. When will she become a true art expert like Hal Foster or Rosalind E. Krauss? Perhaps never.
This is a really valuable video! As an unknown artist who came from a poor family and have had to educate myself in art over 50 years. I realize that I must do my art regardless of notoriety. I worked in the jewelry industry as a goldsmith and designer but not accolades from that. The only down side is that being a woman and poor I fear I'll never be recognized for my art. Cheers for this! What scares me is that the only way I can be a real artist, is validation from the world. So I guess I'm not a real artist, much like Pinocchio was not a real boy!
Garnet Lynne I completely disagree about validation. The only person who can validate your work is you. If you have the drive to make art then make art. Don’t ask why - simply do it. You know yourself whether what you do has integrity, and is ‘right’.
Viola Hamilton Where did I say it was plebeian?! An artist does not need an audience to be an artist. I have just finished a piece of work. It has yet to be seen by anyone, it is nevertheless a piece of work. When others see it and hopefully respond to it,it will continue to be a piece of work. The audience, or whatever term you wish to use , doesn’t make the work, but in responding to it a dialogue is created.
Perry's insights into 'What makes an Artist?' are far more insightful in the 'In Confidence' interview. He seems to disagree with a lot of what she is saying here but doesn't seem to want to get into it.
Is this talk really about the answer of the question "what makes an artist?"? It sounds like it is more about "the" book.. I also wish I could hear Grayson Perry more.
I am 46, and this is possibly the most boring experience i have had in my entire life. I admire Grayson, but the way this woman speaks about Art makes me want to walk into the sea.
k griffin Agree. It’s like watching paint dry ( pun intended). Grayson Perry is one of a handful of artists who somehow seem to be simultaneously ‘ out there’, but also part of the establishment. Once you’ve gained your reputation you can afford to walk this knife edge. (Maggi Hambling is another good example). And this often makes for interesting debate.Surely they could have found someone more inspiring than this woman to have a discussion with a man who has wit and talent in bucket loads. Dead in the water in the first few minutes. A strange evening.
can someone tell me the south american artist Thornton was talking about? (his psychotherapist ran away) i've tried to guess the spelling so many times:( 25:14
If Andrea Fraser has not made an "object for sale" since 1993, then what are we to make of the prints and videos that she sells in limited edition that Thornton writes about in the book? Are these not "objects for sale" as much as Damien Hurst's? This sort of hyperbole that is spouted as truth really removes credibility from Thornton's writing.
So much contemporary art is trash (and I mean the big names too). It really amounts to "The emperor has no clothes." Art is real magic, not throwing chicken bones in the dirt to see what happens ( which is what most contemporary artists do). For the most part contemporary art is really just "art therapy!"
Yess love this description! Contemporary has almost this “boring” sounding connotation towards it but it’s true definitely agree with the magic comment
Would be nice to hear the opinion of some real Artists, on the subject of ''what makes an artist, an artist''. Unfortunately, this is Not the video for this!
Grayson is great. ST is OK but far too 'Uhhhmmy'. Anyone would think she'd been put on the spot. All these questions are prepared in advance. It's a shame as her content is good,, she's clearly a bright woman, but her delivery is very in and out...
No idea what you're on about. I know Grayson is a man! I've been following his career for a decade. I specifically said *"Grayson is great. ST is OK but far too 'Uhhhmmy'. Anyone would think she'd been put on the spot."* *ST*. The interviewer. A woman. *She*.
+Taylor ∆ They get a 'proper' job... most people aren't artists alone. in our time. Most teach or curate or collaborate with others on major projects or work on commercial jobs while working on their projects in their spare time. Some can make a lot of money in galleries and can support themselves solely on this, but it's rather rare in our time, even for an established artist.
4:40 the validation of intellectuals is what adds the value to art... What is an artist? meanwhile she cannot even quote Stein's book properly, three saints, and four sinners? Three short plays by Gertrude Stein, filmed on stage Three Sisters who are not Sisters, nice I'm sure we can trust her interviews. These are the sort of half-baked 'intellectuals' that become the spokepersons of 'art.' 'The Duchampian tradition, they are 'ideas' people, they may not make their own work.' Ok the artist in the 1950s. Her seven days books is a joke. She is as simple as collectors, hopping to global cities and the art fairs, so it's a perfect match.
Watched tiny bit then started reading about Gertrude Stein (mentioned here) and gave up on this. Dull, duller, dullest. Yawn. Grayson Perry tries to liven it up but Sarah Thornton YAWN = just her trying to sell her book, in my opinion, no way I'd want to read it. What did Perry think of this? Does it get better later or not? And the woman who introduced it badly at start by reading in toneless voice = why did she get the job? All in all dreadful. Or am I not educated enough? I usually enjoy and learn from Grayson Perry that's why I watched (weeny bit of) this. Shame. MEGA YAWN.
Boring...they all love themselves too much. Visual artists are people who like to communicate through a visual means. Simple. They are not 'people of ideas'. Anyone can have an idea. That's the easy part. Finding your way to express is the creative part that makes an artist.
Why the need to pigeon hole? We tend to do the same with health and gender. Straight/gay. Well/ill. Aren’t we all human beings somewhere on various spectrums? ‘I am more well than Fred, but less well than Jane’. ‘Bits of me work brilliantly and are very well, bits of me are dropping off like a rusty old car.’ ‘ I am drawn mostly to men, but sometimes to women.’ Why does anyone have to be labelled in such a black and white way? Life would be so much better if we could just go with the flow a bit more instead of needing answers and insisting on boxing in people with labels. If you’re honest and have integrity and get on with whatever your work is, and whatever drives you, then the rest is surely just dinner party waffle.
Artists now are just playing a role like everyone else in society, the role dictated to them by The System. The man dressed as a women is a perfect example.
when art, artists become pop. it has considered worth. while real art. has no defence or infact attachment of seriousness , ie money.involved, real art is worthless.and should be given away. a commission is not art. a portrait or a signature the art world is so full of wank
Why does he need to be silly.? Somebody tell him that Dali already did it!! For Pete sake he was given the honor of being a man, it’s hard watching a man being silly! A man can be comical! Hope that’s what he’s trying to be comical!
i just clicked on some random podcast to listen to, while drawing. At some point i was bored with it and came back to change it.. almost fell off my chair because of this horror clown guy jumpscare..
just another wacko fooling the art critic fools..I think he is not part of the gay/lesbian scene, because they dress much better...the emperor has no clothes...
speedy9313 Hi. He is dressed as his alter-ego Claire. You can read more about Grayson Perry on our website: www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/exhibition/turner-prize-2003/turner-prize-2003-artists-grayson-perry
***** doing what you want is one thing. promoting it like it's normal is another. majority just don't drag- get over it. socks, really? not the brightest drag around.
Could this dreary woman go to the bar and look at a blank wall. while we indulge in Grayson Perry. Not a good pairing. Very disappointing. Come on Grayson buty bump this lady stage right.
all that extra superfluous talk before actually getting to the point... lost my interest.... also not too impressed by an artist who needs to dress to draw attention
"We live in the 21st century, if Michael Angelo were around now, he would be working for Pixar" - Grayson Perry
studiocurtis he’d be at McDonald’s
@@ElinWinblad 🤣🤣🤣
No, he wouldn`t. Incidentally it is Michelangelo, not Michael Angelo. Don`t take the words of some pervert as Gospel.
@@strings-n-keys Pervert?!
'Coolness is the enemy of creativity' - Grayson Perry Absolutely! :)
Grayson Perry "We are in the leisure business people go to the galleries in their time off" love it!
I've saw a rapid increase in recent years of middle class kids emerging from art school having enjoyed all that the experience had to offer, both academically and socially, while the poorer kids have had to work 2 jobs and shoehorn their studies into the mix in order just to get by. Here in scotland, art school remains free to Scottish students, but the material cost of living, including rent, food, energy bills and clothing not to mention art materials, is ever increasing while wages stagnate.
Watching this in 2022... I do get wrong vibes. Tables have flipped, but radically. Unless one occupies the stereotype of neo-dictionary noun, goes ultra-left, ultra-woke, ultra-unreal... Hair gimmicky green or purple... Bloke being feminist and hiding a Hammer & Sickle t-shirt below the man-dress... Your days might be cancelled. ANTIFA-LGBT-BLM are sure to look up something to cancel.
So true. Art is for the middle classes here. I worked 2 jobs in my Degree the 80’s and was mediocre. I did practice as research in Dance Anthropology and got a distinction. I was still working but My Writing was really academic from teaching it - so I Made it … cool
Agreed - Sarah is a disappointing choice to be in conversation with Grayson. She is a wonderful writer however her approach isn't genuine.
The low self ,high self dichotomy. :)
I think talking In a informal way is good in a general "common sence" kind of way. Talking in a bookish way hones in on people who enjoy reading the stuff that's often written in flowery language and requires a level of translation or decoding, causing a stilted tone, almost "towing the line", in a self aware style of way of working with "what we know". "We" being everyone who feels they invest time and personal research in the subject in a broad way.
We have art for its face value first person, and then contemporary art as this "ever evolving naritive" that sort of floats about as blob affected by magazines or blogs or auction sale statistics etc. But the internet is changing that.
For example; I go to get a burger cus I'm hungry but I want a vegetarian burger. The stilted part is when I say it's cus I'm against the innificiancies of meat production versus making a burger from vegetables, and then I say; "what are your Veeegaaahn options" and the butcher is like :l .
In this way I think these two are a great combo.
I'd say It's still controversial for many to persue education as a hobby after formal education. Education seems to leave people unaware they are also allowed to learn things at there own pace in their free time as a hobby or part of just growing as a person. The stilted/"stilted" tone is academic.
I love contemporary art for that. You get to hear what researchers of all types are thinking,researchers like artists.
In a way they are both researchers and artists. Exciting times
( I wrote this 28 minutes into the talk :p)
34:29 is interesting. In science you have pier review, it aims to be pragmatic. In art you have critics who judge things subjectively.
I like that they cover art as a craft and also contemporary art being more involved in how the art work relates to how it's written about, experienced, context etc. Speciality coffee is almost like an artwork, like James Hoffman's TH-cam channel. His TH-cam "content" informs the viewer in a broad way about coffee for free, it so happens he's a top UK coffee roaster. Win win.
"They move into their anecdotage" ...classic...really spot on.
In many ways I have gotten more conservative in my taste, but I still love the way Grayson always challenges and questions things.🙂
Breathtaking Sublime Talent. The Universe was showing off when Grayson Perry was made.
Australia 1.05am
8 January 2021
Every time I see Sarah Thornton, she speaks like a business person or politician. Always more focused on promoting herself but when it comes to art, always superficial. When will she become a true art expert like Hal Foster or Rosalind E. Krauss? Perhaps never.
Greyson should have been an interviewer!
This is a really valuable video! As an unknown artist who came from a poor family and have had to educate myself in art over 50 years. I realize that I must do my art regardless of notoriety. I worked in the jewelry industry as a goldsmith and designer but not accolades from that. The only down side is that being a woman and poor I fear I'll never be recognized for my art. Cheers for this!
What scares me is that the only way I can be a real artist, is validation from the world. So I guess I'm not a real artist, much like Pinocchio was not a real boy!
Garnet Lynne I completely disagree about validation. The only person who can validate your work is you. If you have the drive to make art then make art. Don’t ask why - simply do it. You know yourself whether what you do has integrity, and is ‘right’.
@@Chanel95-d6u Sorry if you think it is plebeian to care about being seen, heard, and included in a meaningful and stimulating community/world.
Viola Hamilton Where did I say it was plebeian?! An artist does not need an audience to be an artist. I have just finished a piece of work. It has yet to be seen by anyone, it is nevertheless a piece of work. When others see it and hopefully respond to it,it will continue to be a piece of work. The audience, or whatever term you wish to use , doesn’t make the work, but in responding to it a dialogue is created.
If you make your a great part of your life, you are a real artist!
would you share your art? I'd be interested to see
Top geezer. Intelligent conversation.
Perry's insights into 'What makes an Artist?' are far more insightful in the 'In Confidence' interview. He seems to disagree with a lot of what she is saying here but doesn't seem to want to get into it.
Is this talk really about the answer of the question "what makes an artist?"? It sounds like it is more about "the" book.. I also wish I could hear Grayson Perry more.
the Reith lectures Grayson Perry did a few years ago were really excellent. recommended, they are on youtube.
This is really fantastic!
I am 46, and this is possibly the most boring experience i have had in my entire life. I admire Grayson, but the way this woman speaks about Art makes me want to walk into the sea.
bwaahahahaaa!! Agreed.
k griffin Agree. It’s like watching paint dry ( pun intended). Grayson Perry is one of a handful of artists who somehow seem to be simultaneously ‘ out there’, but also part of the establishment. Once you’ve gained your reputation you can afford to walk this knife edge. (Maggi Hambling is another good example). And this often makes for interesting debate.Surely they could have found someone more inspiring than this woman to have a discussion with a man who has wit and talent in bucket loads. Dead in the water in the first few minutes. A strange evening.
What's being 46 got to do with it?
I’m 46 and this (is not) deep
Really enjoyed the talk!!
Sarah has a terrific laugh!
can someone tell me the south american artist Thornton was talking about? (his psychotherapist ran away) i've tried to guess the spelling so many times:( 25:14
Video starts at 3:18
I want to become an artist as Tracey Emin or Jhoan Roa
Are there any good books about 'the art scene' written by outsiders? What would someone like Michael Lewis make of it, for example?
If Andrea Fraser has not made an "object for sale" since 1993, then what are we to make of the prints and videos that she sells in limited edition that Thornton writes about in the book? Are these not "objects for sale" as much as Damien Hurst's? This sort of hyperbole that is spouted as truth really removes credibility from Thornton's writing.
He’s so much more interesting when dressed as a woman
Tsetsi I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING ABOUT YOU TOO :-)
sonny corbi omg 😭
The Joker Effect
this was great, thanks
So much contemporary art is trash (and I mean the big names too). It really amounts to "The emperor has no clothes."
Art is real magic, not throwing chicken bones in the dirt to see what happens ( which is what most contemporary artists do).
For the most part contemporary art is really just "art therapy!"
Yess love this description! Contemporary has almost this “boring” sounding connotation towards it but it’s true definitely agree with the magic comment
This is not a video about art. This is gossip and book promotion
Would be nice to hear the opinion of some real Artists, on the subject of ''what makes an artist, an artist''. Unfortunately, this is Not the video for this!
Grayson is it and then some
1:05:20 the ¨shouty and portable art¨ of the art fair
YES I LOVE ART!
OMG she's dull - Please let Grayson speak how many times does she say URM.....
AMAZING ONE🍻
I would rewrite the title of this video with: Sarah's book presentation. What a waste of time.
Grayson is great. ST is OK but far too 'Uhhhmmy'. Anyone would think she'd been put on the spot. All these questions are prepared in advance. It's a shame as her content is good,, she's clearly a bright woman, but her delivery is very in and out...
No idea what you're on about. I know Grayson is a man! I've been following his career for a decade.
I specifically said *"Grayson is great. ST is OK but far too 'Uhhhmmy'. Anyone would think she'd been put on the spot."* *ST*. The interviewer. A woman. *She*.
How do artists make a living (money)?
+Taylor ∆ They get a 'proper' job... most people aren't artists alone. in our time. Most teach or curate or collaborate with others on major projects or work on commercial jobs while working on their projects in their spare time. Some can make a lot of money in galleries and can support themselves solely on this, but it's rather rare in our time, even for an established artist.
They don’t. At least from art.
Sound guys, put the mic further away from the cackling cows maw. The cackle blows out the ears for headphone wearers.
This would have been worth listening to if only they’d disagreed...
Uh....um....uh....umm great talk.
Did Sarah go to art school? Dull interviewer. She needs to let Grayson speak.
Really..this is such a bore!!! Artists searching up their own !@###. I'd rather listen to great David Hockney ciggy in hand talk about art.
he just makes me smile he's just faboulse
4:40 the validation of intellectuals is what adds the value to art... What is an artist? meanwhile she cannot even quote Stein's book properly, three saints, and four sinners? Three short plays by Gertrude Stein, filmed on stage Three Sisters who are not Sisters, nice I'm sure we can trust her interviews. These are the sort of half-baked 'intellectuals' that become the spokepersons of 'art.' 'The Duchampian tradition, they are 'ideas' people, they may not make their own work.' Ok the artist in the 1950s. Her seven days books is a joke. She is as simple as collectors, hopping to global cities and the art fairs, so it's a perfect match.
@49.10 amazing and beautiful
Joseph Charles Colin Puts Paint on His Face & paints a Canvas...
Watched tiny bit then started reading about Gertrude Stein (mentioned here) and gave up on this. Dull, duller, dullest. Yawn. Grayson Perry tries to liven it up but Sarah Thornton YAWN = just her trying to sell her book, in my opinion, no way I'd want to read it. What did Perry think of this? Does it get better later or not? And the woman who introduced it badly at start by reading in toneless voice = why did she get the job? All in all dreadful. Or am I not educated enough? I usually enjoy and learn from Grayson Perry that's why I watched (weeny bit of) this. Shame. MEGA YAWN.
She looks like Monica Geller
Painting is a luxury : Mogul Princes employed Artists & their work rests in Museums around the World. DGJ.
My cat doesn't like Grayson's voice... but I do
Boring...they all love themselves too much. Visual artists are people who like to communicate through a visual means. Simple. They are not 'people of ideas'. Anyone can have an idea. That's the easy part. Finding your way to express is the creative part that makes an artist.
Why the need to pigeon hole? We tend to do the same with health and gender. Straight/gay. Well/ill. Aren’t we all human beings somewhere on various spectrums? ‘I am more well than Fred, but less well than Jane’. ‘Bits of me work brilliantly and are very well, bits of me are dropping off like a rusty old car.’ ‘ I am drawn mostly to men, but sometimes to women.’ Why does anyone have to be labelled in such a black and white way? Life would be so much better if we could just go with the flow a bit more instead of needing answers and insisting on boxing in people with labels. If you’re honest and have integrity and get on with whatever your work is, and whatever drives you, then the rest is surely just dinner party waffle.
"research labs of neo-liberalism" classic GP.
Artists now are just playing a role like everyone else in society, the role dictated to them by The System.
The man dressed as a women is a perfect example.
what a horrendous laugh goes right through you when your trying to listen to Grayson
um
The question should really be: What is a narcissist?
the brown female talks a long time to say nothing.. aaaah art
what makes an artist? a pencil.....what makes a successful artist? friends with money
when art, artists become pop. it has considered worth. while real art. has no defence or infact attachment of seriousness , ie money.involved, real art is worthless.and should be given away. a commission is not art. a portrait or a signature the art world is so full of wank
Why does he need to be silly.? Somebody tell him that Dali already did it!! For Pete sake he was given the honor of being a man, it’s hard watching a man being silly! A man can be comical! Hope that’s what he’s trying to be comical!
I can't stand Thornton.
i thought that was eddie izzard..
The man who asks about Banksy, IS BANKSY!!!
Armmmm.......or is Urummmmm
i just clicked on some random podcast to listen to, while drawing. At some point i was bored with it and came back to change it..
almost fell off my chair because of this horror clown guy jumpscare..
yes ,chic cynicism is a form of surrender but to what ?
Don't do drugs kids
Well, drugs have given us amazing art from amazing artists
Andrea Fraser... 'Untitled' has sex with a dealer... how totally irrelevant.
wonder what grayson took away from this... shes dull
Stop enturrupting Grayson!! Let him speak!! She is so annoying
I would not recommend watching this, I could stomach 32 minutes.
Sarah Thornton say's a lot of UMM, AH, EH, UMM. It distracts me from what she is saying... :/
just another wacko fooling the art critic fools..I think he is not part of the gay/lesbian scene, because they dress much better...the emperor has no clothes...
Sarah Thornton ? ...... This is a snoozer talk .
the joker and murray
UHMMM UHMMM UUHHMM UHMMM UUUUUHHHMM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAAHAHQHHAHHAHAHAHA
5 17
Grayson = 👍🏼💖 Ms Uh Uh Uh = 👎🏼😖
Why's he dressed like that?
speedy9313 Hi. He is dressed as his alter-ego Claire. You can read more about Grayson Perry on our website: www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/exhibition/turner-prize-2003/turner-prize-2003-artists-grayson-perry
+Craig Sumares-Long encouraging people to go drag. enough internet for me...
***** doing what you want is one thing. promoting it like it's normal is another. majority just don't drag- get over it.
socks, really? not the brightest drag around.
Guy's a bit uneasy with this whole situation
Because he is an attention-seeking charlatan.
43:10
45:37
45:47
46:09
Could this dreary woman go to the bar and look at a blank wall. while we indulge in Grayson Perry. Not a good pairing. Very disappointing. Come on Grayson buty bump this lady stage right.
Grayson Perry : 'Coolness is the enemy of creativity'
How hypocritical from an decadent Englishman say that.
ugh, no.
Widow Twankey really is quite boring.
all that extra superfluous talk before actually getting to the point... lost my interest.... also not too impressed by an artist who needs to dress to draw attention
Boring
what on earth is this
Dress up like a clown 🤣