How Speedrunners Broke Pokemon Ultra Moon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
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What are your thoughts on Pokemon Ultra Moon as a Pokemon game?
I wish I had it
Good
I like reading dialogue and watching the cutscenes
very good
also it has more changes than previous third versions tf do you mean
I hate ultra space minigame
Wish I could play it
I love that friendship is a part of the speedrun
Aggressively being nice to your Pokemon is vital for efficiency
"What!! You still don't like me?!!! Fine, I guess I just have to give you more friendship berries, just BOND WITH ME ALREADY."
Now it is time for Trainer Pokemon bonding. BOND WITH ME JIMMY! (nicknamed pokemon)
Aggressive bonding, but not *too* much Aggressive bonding
@@brettkennedy1588sus
*shove 200 pokepuff into my hawlucha*
aggressive? When?
For those who are curious, the zorua reached level 27 after beating ultra necrozma
That sounds like a huge waste of time. Wouldn't it be a lot faster if he just let Zorua get killed instead of using protect last turn?
@@unitystarlight13 probably. This was a proof of concept. optimally, yeah, fainting would be faster.
@@unitystarlight13and how are you going to make it faint when it can’t get hit smart arse 😂
@@burnsboy101 You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are ya?
@@unitystarlight13 that’s not answering the question, right back at ya
The Illusion ability is SUCH an AI breaker.... it's kinda funny how easily you can turn the AI into a total idiot simply by accounting for your team composition.
Illusion has apparently been doing this since even Gen 5.
Funnily enough, the AI script that determines what Pokemon a trainer sends out next actually sees through Illusion and bases its decisions off of the real Zorua/Zoroark behind it. So for example, Elite Four Molayne could send in Metagross on a Zoroark disguised as any given Fighting type, because the AI sees that Hammer Arm is its hardest hitting tool against that Dark type over there, and as soon as Metagross is in it immediately forgets all about that and tries to Zen Headbutt it.
@@Kuchito08 I know... It's Hilarious. XD
@@slanax That makes it even funnier. XD
Making the AI either 100% ignore Illusion or 100% fall for it are both easy, compared to designing an AI subroutine which can mess up, realize something is wrong, and start experimenting with...(checks Necrozma's move pool)...Steel-type moves or something.
Unironically did the Illusion trick by accident in my first playthrough because I picked up a Zoroark. Laughed my ass through that fight.
I was so scared during that fight because my Pokémon were one shotted and my last 2 were Zoroark and Ditto. Anyway I was so relieved
So did i. I was scared going into the fight but it was easy as hell
Same
I was terrified before my Zoroark destroyed it
Going to be honest, trainers should have ALWAYS had effort values. Especially major story battles like trial captains. It took way too long into the series for it to happen.
Agreed! Or at least on an optional difficulty mode.
@@caseydewitt6236 I always want a new game plus mode where You can play through the story with a complete team of pokemon and have everything scaled to you
Think you might be forgetting - the game is made for kids
@@BrotherManBilliamokay but they don't need to be optimized evs. ALL player caught Pokemon used regularly will have evs randomly spread out, even if AI trainers only have like, 60-80 evs in every stat, it's still a boost
@@BrotherManBilliam Yeah and as a literal child I often got bored with how easy these trainers were. Kids are smarter than you're giving them credit for and it's already a game you can infinitely grind in if you get stuck
I did not think baby doll eyes would ever be used in a speedrun
I JUST found out that it has +1 priority.
It’s one of those simple but useful moves, like nuzzle.
me too@@nousername191
@@nousername191no wonder why pennys umbreon was faster than my hawlucha lol
I've had to use it in nuzlockes and low level runs
My guess to the Necrozma situation is that they never gave it a check for if the move failed or not, so Ultra Necrozma just ends up assuming the at the move "missed" or was blocked by something like protect and tries again to annihilate the fighting type it sees in front of it with a move that otherwise would be super effective
Then couldn't you just lead with any old dark type?
@drkspace no, because then it won't use a psychic type move against it. The reason it uses photon geyser against Zorua is because Its ability Illusion makes Necrozma think Zorua is Hawlucha.
Ultra Necrozma has an ability that basically boosts Super-effective moves by 25% (Like a built-in Expert Belt), so it's really just it going "ooga booga Psychic beats Fighting" since in my experience almost every pokemon in this game goes for the highest possible damage
The same thing works in Scarlet & Violet BTW i took the Hisuian Zorark (Ghost/Normal type) to the fighting type team star base, disguised it as a dark type and they spent the whole fight trying to hit it with fighting type moves, it was hilarious.
From what I've been told, the AI works with Illusion the way that it sees the stats of the real Zorua/Zoroark hidden behind it, but with the typing of its disguise. So it always sees that juicy Psychic weakness on what it assumes to be a Hawlucha that just coincidentally has Zorua stats, clicks its big fuckoff Psychic move, and dies
Incidentally, you can use the same trick to let Zoroark set up on Champion Hau's lead A-Raichu.
The trick in the end reminds me of how one could completely lock gen 1's enemy pkmn into buffing themselves. They would always use a move of at type that is super effective against your pkmn, and they didn't check whether the move would inflict damage or not. So anything with "Amnesia", but no ground or psychic moves would keep spamming the move against poison types.
They're both AI breakers, but they work differently. You're correct about Gen 1, but in this case it looks like the game was programmed to treat pokemon with Illusion as though they were the pokemon they looked like, and not Zorua or Zoroark.
So, Necrozma sees that it's fighting a Fighting-type pokemon, and decides to use its strongest Psychic-type move. It does no damage. Next turn, Necrozma sees that it's fighting a Fighting-type pokemon, and decides to use its strongest Psychic-type move. Repeat until you have a new world record.
@@timothymcleanyep, though funnily enough the typing check for illusion happens really late, so trainers can switch to a mon with a coverage move that'd be super effective against you, then proceed to spam psychic type moves till they feint.
I can’t believe that a random viewer changed the speedrun Route forever.
I watched a video last year or the year before which showed this strategy. So, that viewer probably didn't invent this strategy.
@TomTheCat2367 this strategy was created about 6 months after the game was released. Where they might not have come up with it, that veiwer is the one that cemented it into the run.
@@NaturalFireWave Very cool strategy tho
That's what's so great about speedrunning! People like to frame it as speedrunners competing with each other to get the best times, but it's really the speedrunning community _as a whole_ competing against _the mechanics of the game._
I actually unintentionally cheated the boss fight that way.
I just love zoroark and was super happy to have it with me across alola, and i was positive that i could sneak it in the fight by having it disguise as a fighting type.
Let's just say i absolutely destroyed that with no effort and was super confused when i heard all the people "complaining" about how hard the boss fight actually was
Might b a hot take but i really liked the Ultra Wormhole segment, i didnt mind the motion controls and it made it really fun to hunt for legendaries in the post game imo
I can 100% see how it’s aggravating as sin in a speedrun tho 😬
Fun fact: you can actually change the motion controls to the joystick, can’t remember where tho
I am so glad there's a way to change it afterwards, although it was weird that this was the default.
@@Garde_Mystik
Amen
@@Garde_Mystik They really like to try and encourage players to use the device's mechanics, in this case, motion controls. There's also probably the fact that a regular 3ds could technically play the ultra games, though welcome to lag hell if you do xD
@@staydetermined6717 it's in the Game Freaks lab at Akala
This is how i accidentally beat it on my playthrough with no damage
i had zoroark in front and vaporeon in the back, it kept using photon geyser
The fact that you don't cover the E4 or Hau here just tells me Hawlucha demolishes everyone easily lmao
That Zorua strat is actually insane, one of the coolest I've seen
I had a Zoroark on my team in my playthrough of Ultra Moon and beat Necrozma by disguising it as my Arbok.
Okay I have heard about the strategy of using a Zoroark in normal playthroughs but the fact that it's a level 6 Zorua is what makes it
You are ultra necrozma.
Your light consumes entire universes.
A bird throws some pocket sand at you and then just stands there while you blast it with the radiance of the sun.
HA
I struggled through Ultra Necrozma because I thought it was far too late to raise a Zorua but I guess I could have just taught it Toxic lmao
I defeated it using my necrozma I transfered over from the original sun and moon games I didn't watch many videos at the time so I was very lucky I did that m pokemon where under leveled and I was also using 3 magicarps
@@the_roman_emperor_fisheater you can easily beat Ultra Nekrozma using a lvl 1 FEAR Rattata
My favorite thing about ultra necrozma is all the unique ways people cheese it. They way I beat it on my first playthrough was a quick claw on a Malamar to topsy-turvy it’s stats and make it useless.
Gosh, I knew that Zorua was going to be instrumental given its interactions with Ultra Necrozma but I was not ready for it to stay at level 6 and Toxic stall lmao
Of all the crazy shit in this speedrun I still think the wildest part is that friendship grinding is part of the route
As a Hawlucha enthusiast I'm glad that my favorite bird pokemon could help you with this speed run.
wonderful video, this game is a HILARIOUS speedrun lol
and btw, the zorua/zoroark thing still works in Scarlet , been my favorite AI exploit since zorua's debut ;)
One thing I used in my "opposite of a speedrun" Ultra Sun playthrough (a Professor Oak challenge) I did last year to cut the Mimikyu knot involved Iron Head on a Rampardos, but I don't think the time spent on buying the Skull Fossil in Konikoni, reviving it, doing extra Mantine Surf to get the BP for the tutor on Ula'ula, and the Z-Move cutscene is enough to save significant time over the Hawlucha method outlined here.
I know this game gets a lot of flack, but the intense fight against Ultra Necrozma was really memorable for me. I lost multiple times, and was just barely able to win because of my Golisopod's signature move and ability saving the day.
Golisopod is the GOAT
@@icymiles Indeed!
Most of the flack came from the original games and the Ultra games seeming more complete begging the question of why it wasn't released that way in the first place.
Now we know why the alola protags are so emotionless.
They just are suffering waiting through their cutscene, and are aware everything was scripted from the start.
It's nice to see Cha the Hawlucha again. I remember getting him and he stayed in the party the whole game.
>X items provide a +2 boost now
And people said these games were "hard".
As a Hawlucha fan (it's my favorite pokemon) I'm really glad to see video like this
Videos like this are what make me sad that I somehow lost my copies of USUM during a period of apartment renovation. I have the box for the double pack back from when i pre-ordered, but the games inside disappeared somewhere. Never got to play them, I had been working on catching the ultra beasts in the Moon postgame at the time.
Man I love the sun/moon games. My favourite games in the entire series. Didn't look like crap. Did things differently than the previous games (not having to do 8 gyms again). Banger music. No more HMs.
me how I had both Zoroark and meta gross on my in game team for my first playthrough. I was so confused why everyone thought necrozma was so difficult, but now I know!
I think the pokemon ultra sun and moon games are more of remasters than remakes, they keep almost all of the same things but also change things up to create a better, more fun and challenging experience.
Great video! USUM are some of my favorite Pokémon games! Subbed!
Give us another alola game but let us into the wormhole buildings. Some of the wormhole places were insane.
Ultra Necrozma is the peak example of the Pokemon Opponent AI script and I love it.
If they see the kill and have a supereffective move, they will always try to use it. (Even if that move isn't a damaging move, for some reason)
They also, conveniently, don't take abilities into account. So since Necrozma doesn't see the Dark type with illusion, it constantly tries to use a Psychic move on what it thinks is a Fighting type.
My first time around, I used a Gastly, and got flattened by Earthquake
I learned of the bracketed part of this quirk from an Emerald Kaizo video a bit ago where a Pelipper kept getting hit by Thunder Wave despite being in the red. Since it was an Electric move against something 4x weak to Electric, the opponent saw it as a valid option.
Hawlucha became my fave mon soon after catching a shiny one in X's Friend Safari.
That little guy has been with me in end-game in pretty much every Pokemon game since.
Man has so many ribbons at this point lol. So cool to see how good he preforms.
Wouldn’t it have been quicker to let Zorua get knocked out by that last Dragon Pulse so you don’t have to watch all those level-ups?
you right as hell
your content is a ray of sunshine on my feed
Could a fear strat be faster? It'll be faster in number of turns used against UN but not sure about the routing needed to accomplish it
the problems probably acquiring a sash, dunno if any of the mons have sturdy something like it
@@rabidtfa random npc gives you a free sash
@waitwhatisthiswhydoesthisexist oh i honestly didn’t remember that
@@rabidtf Sturdy wouldn't work cause of photon geyser, it's a move with mold breaker
The available pokemon only learn endeavor in high levels
I never knew my exact Ultra Necrozma strategy would be used in speedruns
Zoroark is such a blessing, both as a Pokemon that exists and being in Ultra Sun and Moon.
0:09 when the JRPG is being a JRPG
Imagine complaining about text in crono trigger or ff7
the fact that Ultra Necrozma finally understood and used dragon pulse instead was the turn you just protected lmao
i wonder if having zorua hold a toxic orb on the necrozma fight helps the speedrun more to avoid the level up messages, great vid as always
"Known for it's lack of differences"
- 100 Pokemon added to the regional dex
- Almost every boss fight is different
- An entirely new segment of the story with new characters and a Super-Boss
- Several new Pokemon-Exclusive Z-moves with full animations
- The ability to catch every past Legendary in the post-game
- A new post-game story arc where you fight every past gen's Evil Team Leaders
- The return of a number of characters from past games who were not present in the OG SU/MO
- Several fully brand-new Pokemon, excluding mythicals, which no 3rd version has ever added before, as they usually give the 3rd Legendary new forms but nothing brand new apart from that. We got that, plus new forms for both Solgaleo and Lunala, 4 new Ultra Beasts and what is essentially a new Mega in the form of Ultra Necrozma
Why do people who never played this game just say it's bad?
And by the way, I'd argue Volo dethroned U-Necrozma as the most difficult boss, considering he has 8 Pokemon including 2 Giratina in a game where most enemies will attack several times in a row, plus the rest of his team is Cynthia's team minus Milotic.
A lot of what you listed is only experienced towards the end of the game and beyond. But from the beginning all the way up until the Dragon Totem, the content added/changed barely feels there. And I am someone who's beaten both the original SuMo and Ultra Games an unhealthy amount.
This game definitely deserves a ton of praise for what it did for the end game/post game, but also deserves criticism for how those early segments barely feel any different.
@@PulseEffects Not what you said, you said they're known for lacking differences to the original SU/MO. Saying the entire game up until the post game feels exactly the same is not true, but is still a better explanation than what you gave in the video I suppose.
Random Zorua at level 6 with toxic:
You are going to fall Ultra Necrozma!
Necrozma: Wait what? My super effective Photon Geysir did zero damage to this Fighting Pokémon?
Better I use the same move twice just in case!
*Thought process repeats at the start of the next round*
What makes this video jump to an 11/10 is the usage of Gravity Rush ost in the background
I love your use of Gravity Rush's Pleasure District
I had a zoroark in my normal playthrough of ultra moon, disguised as an Arbok. 2 shot ultra necrozema with foul play.
Reversed Spearow audio made me LOL 😂
Great video!
using Zorua was how I beat Ultra Necrozma on my casual run LOL
I remember joining a pokemon stream just after UltraMoon released and telling how I beat Ultra-Nekrozma with Zoroa and Ekans using that strat.
But thats been years ago, so i doubt I was the random viewer xD
I LOVE THE MOUNT THUNDER PEAK SONG FROM MYST3RY DUNGEON ITS ONE OF MY FABORITE TRACKS EVER I CANT BELIEVE YOU USED IT
I tried using the Illusion exploit on Ultra Necrozma the first time I ever played Ultra Moon, but I made the mistake of trying to use a Z-Move as Zoroark, dispelling the illusion. It did a lot, but not enough. Luckily, my Alolan Muk picked up the pace when my Zoroark fell.
EDIT: Funnily enough, Zoroark was also disguised as my Hawlucha...
The hawlucha focused run reminds me of how busted that traded emolga was in the original black and white games
Bruh I ain't never seen someone disrespect Necrozma like that god damn xD
Thats insane that he can get tricked by that illusion
If you had leveled up zorua to lvl 27, you could've one shot ultra necrozma with foul play 😂
Sorry to be that guy but...
+1 Lvl 26 252 Atk Zorua Foul Play vs. +1 Lvl 60 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 110-132 (53.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
it misses the one shot. (Plus levelling it too 27 for Foul play probably adds more time than toxic stall and lowers Hawluchas EXP gain)
@@The_Pikaboi This also assumes that the Necrozma is fully invested into Attack and not into bulk. It's actually extremely bulky (probably because its level, stats, coverage, and the omniboost make it more than enough of a threat offensively already - a lot of Totem Pokemon actually follow this pattern) As a result, the real calc is even worse: +1 Lvl 26 0- Atk Zorua Foul Play vs. +1 Lvl 60 96 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma-Ultra: 62-74 (28.3 - 33.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
foul play is level 29
the mimikyu fight was really cool to get around it's advantages over Hawlucha
Oooh, that illusion trick looks like it would be good for Nuzlockes as well. For my first U Necrozma I used Topsy Turvey with a focus sashed Inkay to kind of cheese the fight.
That be marowak was heck fighting
IDK if "You'll get past your rival Hop twice" was on purpose or not but either way it was perfect
I watched so many challenge run recently I only realized 10 minutes in that the speedrunner don't use "only 1 pokemon" lol. I was like "wtf" when the poplio went in for the baby dolls eyes move lol.
Can someone remind me what the music for the Grand Kahuna section is? It forgot and I can't find it it's driving me insane
Gotta love how its become a thing where we just call hau hop because they are basically the same except ones hawaiian and ones british
Tbh i only played usum once completely and Necrozma wasn't a problem at all. Since i only took it down with one team i don't know how so many people struggled with it. I didn't know what i got into. I don't remember it exactly, but i think i used topsy-turvy first turn and Foul Play next with my Malamar (though it would make sense to use swagger first. I might have done that too). Either ways, i took it down in two turns whilst my brother complained about having had to give up after 30min. My malamar wasn't even overleveld.
Using my favorite Pokémon to destroy my favorite Pokémon game? You've earned my subscription.
I remember stumbling into a Zorua in the early game on my first playthrough of ultra sun, but I had NO IDEA how good it actually was until I entered the Ultra Necrozma fight and stumbled upon this cheese on complete accident. It had wiped half my team but my Zoarark, as Hariyama, did the same thing that occurred in this video.
Hold up, the portal to U-Necrozma is *random* ?
I've only played US/UM once each, and in both occasions I got to the Ultra Metropolis, or whatever that place was called, on my first go. I guess I was incredibly lucky.
It sounds like a first-try white wormhole isn't _unlikely,_ just _not guaranteed._ And as long as there's room for bad RNG in a speedrun, no matter how likely it is to go in your favor, you're going to get tails five times in a row.
Pretty sure that’s how I cheesed the Ultra Necrozma fight too (with illusion, not toxic stall)
The fucking Yugio reference got me lol, subbed
the way i bear ultra necozma was through a traded level 60 drowsy who put necrozma to sleep, and a level 100 shiny mew
who didnt listen to me
that moon do be ultra after all
Gat DAYM throwing on the marvel 2 music? Let's go
in my casual run of usum, I had zoroark and just spammed nasty plot before 1 tapping ultra necrozma.
Does this make Cha the second most recognizable trade Pokemon of all time? (Behind Mindy’s Haunter, naturally.)
Haunter isn't that memorable. Mindy is.
Not the first time I've seen the AI's "must use super effective type moves" strategy abused.
1:48 really Wish they continued that way
Great Tusk or Dondozo with actual EVs in SV would have been cool
my over leveled golisopod (i was grinding my team since i heard how busted necrozma was and my decidueye was level 74 due to rotom exp boost and transferring a lucky egg several times from the copies of sun and moon and gave it to all of my pokemon and golisopod was level 70 and hawlucha was level 80 and all of my team had max friendship and trade boost after the lucky egg thing and yes i had a zoroark but didn't know this stratagy and had my level 99 lunala [from the copies of sun and moon from where i got the lucky eggs] and a level 70 mimiku just in case anything went wrong i could revive atleast 2 members due to disguise) got a crit and one shoted ultra necrozma so i never struggled against ultra necrozma (maybe overkill with the team chilling in the back)
The Alohla games have to be my favorite Pokémon that will ever be made.
Would it make any sense to level the Zorua enough to learn Foul Play? Foul Play even from a low-level Zorua oneshots Ultra Necrozma.
THE THUMBNAIL, OMG OMG CHA, Y9U GET THAT FROM A TRADE
"speed running" "6 hours of cut scenes" I honestly have no idea what they were thinking.
Ultra sun is my absolute favourite Pokémon game
Zorua Talk begins
Pokemon Colosseum Music starts
Dont hype me up like this man 😂
The way this guy calls things disgusting is so funny
I am curious if the strats in this speedrun are applicable to Ultra Sun
With my fangame, the major battles are going to have Pokémon with beneficial natures and optimized stats.
It was funny trolling necrozma with zoroark when I played XD
@PulseEffects idk if it is easy or convenient to get Foul Play on Zorua but I remember using zoroark in my casual playthrough and one-shotting ultra necrozma by pure happen stance. Since Fould play uses Necrozma's attack would you need to invest in zorua at all for the same effect? Can a level 6 zorua one shot Necrozma as well?
Hope this helps :)
Unfortunately level is a direct factor in the damage a pokemon deals, so despite using Necrozma's attack stat, it doesn't do that much damage due to being level 6.
"Hardest bossfight pokemon has ever created"
My level one rat: 🗿
Legends Arceus Giratina: 🗿
You can also use foul play if youre not speedrunning but have trouble with the ultra necrozma fight
Ultra Necrozma: My Photon Geyser will kill anything, you are no match for me
Illusion+Toxic strats: we’ll see about that.
So what he trying to say is that hawlucha is him
I am not above the cheese. Going to go beat ultra necrozma right now
10:21 so im not the only one whos gotten dreams about pokemon. Guess im sane
That Zoua cheese is amazing
Why do speedrunners play ultramoon and not ultrasun?