Thank you for taking recent research, putting it into context and then providing direction. I’m a 62 yo retired woman, slightly overweight, I do cardio 4-6 times a week, and strength/resistence 2-3 times a week. Your videos often motivate me. It was good at the end of your talk to hear you emphasize the importance of sleep and mood.
@@One-Ring-To-Rule-Them-All heat therapy. Ha! Sleep, stretches, eating mostly whole foods. Seriously, though, lots of heat therapy and massage. I try to get anaerobic cardio 3 of the 4-6 times. About ten years ago, I was borderline everything bad. Now, no red flags, no medications.
When I take a really hot bath all the stress melts off and my body relaxes and I get a better sleep. Even if it didn't help with recovery I'd still do it for those reasons, which coincidentally help with sleep anyways.
Normal people sleep better after hot (or just warm) bath. I am the opposite - my body struggles to cool down, palms of hands and feet are blazing of heat, heart rate is elevated. Cold plunge or hose-down works wonders, hr drops to low 40's and lethargy sets in. In my case I am wondering if the significantly improved sleep quality after cold exposure outweighs the damping of mTor activity with the cold. Some thoughts about sauna: First a disclosure, I love proper hot sauna. The people from origin of sauna (where I live, also Finland, rest of Baltics, North-Eastern Russia) consider sauna from 90 deg C for women, children and elderly. 100 to 120 deg C is not uncommon for men. That is on level that as a seasoned weight lifter and a running athlete I can not recommend as recovery modality to take up daily. A good session of this sauna is equivalent to a reasonable cardio workout in intensity. Heart rate going up to 70..80% hr max is common. I can attest it is very beneficial for muscles, yet it is the opposite to recovery on full body level. That is why our people have tradition of sauna on Sundays, once a week. In US you may go to a different sauna, like the 'term' in Rome or Turkish sauna. Then there is 'Euro Sauna', most of the time with electric heater - severely under powered compared to the real thing. These are comparatively very mild and perhaps comparable to hot bath in effect (still not yakuzi level). I argue that a proper yakuzi bath is too hot to be usable as daily recovery tool, as well.
5:00 I would argue any inflammatory reduction methods should be used for upcoming performance benefits rather than during any training phase. if you need them in a peaking/tapering phase, you're doing this work at too high of volume and too near the performance. as you said, repeat performances, same day or across days, do what you need which makes you feel better, but if building towards a performance... you should probably recover more.
Before I built my home gym, I used to work out at the place that had a different saunas and cold water mini pool for plunging. After workouts, I used to spend like 10-15 minutes in regular sauna then plunge into the cold water for couple of minutes, then 10-15 minutes in steam sauna (Turkish sauna?) and back into cold water for few minutes. I wonder how that kind of protocol affects muscle building and recovery. Tbh, I did that because it felt nice and it helped with my lower back issues (pain and stiffness for old injuries), but now I am curious in general. I think standard procedure in Nordic countries is to plunge in ice cold water after sauna all the time. Maybe someone will do studies on that...
Always nice to have science backup experience. I'm a long distance runner that takes hot baths. It seems to help and speed up recovery after a 20 mile run or workout.
I guess there are people out there who like to do a cold plunge but I am not one of them!! Thanks for the info I will continue with the hot shower after the workout!
I have actually been doing sauna post-workout or on off-days for the past 3 weeks or so. Idk how much I have been placebo'ing myself, but I feel more recovered now in prep for a powerlifting competition. I do either 2 x 15 mins on a lower height in the sauna. Or 1 x 15-20mins at the top height of the sauna. Cold shower after. And then normal confortable-warm shower to wash it all away
I think Dr. Andy Galpin has studies showing cold plunge before weight training does not inhibit protein synthesis. I could be misremembering but would love to see Dr Layne and Dr Andy together
The way some people go on about cold baths it’s like I’m missing out on all my gains if I don’t take cold showers. Let me tell you, even if it could add inches to my unit, I still wouldn’t do it. Bloody stupid
Love a good hot bath and always wonder if I should be adding in cold plunges. Thank you as always for these videos! Also hope you faired well after the storms, hurricanes are a bitch this year around here.
Great video per usual. You should make some content reacting to the channel What I've Learned. The creator (Joseph Everett) makes incredibly well produced, well written and organized, and engaging videos on seed oils, fasting, ketosis, the mtor-aging connection, sleep, and other trendy stuff. He will also often reference primary research and review articles, displaying them in the video. Despite how shiny the videos are his actual analysis and conclusions aren't very rigorous and he engages in motivated reasoning, right up your alley for a quick debunking. He isn't trained in science and it shows. Scientific sins aside he's a great example of how to make engaging, long form content, despite being wrong often
Have there been any studies about the difference between sauna and cold plunge together versus sauna alone? Scandinavians will sauna then sit in snow for example.
Hi Dr Norton. I wondered if you'd ever consider doing some content regarding women's training and diet in perimenopause and menopause. There is little information out there from credible sources I think. Thank you so much for your videos and your How to Lose Fat and KEEP it Off. it's a not an easy read, but I'm working through it! Thank you
Hi Dr Layne Love what you’re doing🙏🏼 What’s your thoughts on Michael Greger MD’s research on all kinds of poultry,seafood,fish and meat is cancerous? Is this research thorough?
Why aren't people discussing why are books like "Health and Beauty Mastery" by Julian Bannett being censored for exposing lies health industry and pharma are pushing?
Bots. I saw the same comment on a Peter Attia video. And exactly the same number of likes. Pointing to a scamy website of a book with no reviews from person with no credentials. Fortunately learning from real scientists and researches can be free. Like here! Please no one spend money on sketchy webpages. You are welcome
I wonder if you created a video about turmeric. I heard that anti-inflammatory medicines or even cold plunges hinder muscle growth that depends on inflammation. But how about turmeric found in curcumin? Is it safe to consume if gaining muscle is my goal?
Ive noticed My legs recover neste when i do both First ice water then sauna and repeat this many Times I also trust experience nd words of Teemu Selänne Our Finnish hockey Legend He played for ovet 40s and i documentaryy showed behind scenes in teams bathroom there were hot water and cold water pools where he jumped from one to other nd so his legs could tke The punishment
As a lifter who trains 3 hours a day, I started cold plunge daily. I totally feel the metabolism slow down. I like how it helps with sleep though. So now I just plunge on Sunday evening
Speaking on recovery, can you make a video about massage guns? I love their use to loosen tight muscles, pain management and relaxation, but what about their effects on recovery?
it helps you relax which in turn helps you recover more, but renaissance periodization did a video on all of those things recently and scientifically it doesnt do much.
Rubbish. If I go for a run at the beach. I then wade around in water at 15 degrees celcius for a few minutes. I recover so fast that I can immediately go for another run and I beat the performance of my prior run. By at least 2 %.. and I have never had any injuries..
I would like and subscribe when you start doing videos without all the cussing because I'm trying to watch to learn but it is offensive to hear that bleep this and bleep that and my husband will make me turn the TV off if he hears all the bleeping
So I’m not disputing the science here, nor am I intending to throw out the catch-all of 'placebo,' but after a few weeks of running, lifting weights, playing sports, and swimming, everything starts to build up. On a day when I sauna and do an ice bath, even if it’s only placebo, it really seems to help. It calms my mind since I tend to stress about recovery for my next activity, as well as focusing me towards recovery, which then leads to increaswd calories from good sources, increased protein etc. I was also curious about the degree to which an ice bath might affect muscle strength and size gains. Could this be the bodybuilding equivalent to the 'anabolic window' myth? Layne has pointed out before that while the anabolic window exists, its impact is marginal and not worth obsessing over. Could cold exposure be similar-where the effect on muscle growth is real but perhaps exaggerated?
It's been known for a long time that ice baths are generally not the ideal protocol during training b/c icing inhibits/reduces inflammation. But Inflammation is a necessary mechanism that trigger metabolic processes required to "rebuild" damaged muscle fibers. Sure you might feel better psychologically & physically b/c icing relieves reduces inflammation, but you are simply delaying muscle repair which isn't ideal in the long term for building strength. But like Norton said, ice baths can have a purpose... like if you're a T&F athlete having to run multiple rounds in a single day. Relieving inflammation between rounds is more important than the insignificant muscle growth stimulus you'd achieve from a single day of activity. You ask is the "effect on muscle growth real but exaggerated"? You'd have to read the research papers to figure that out... I'm sure it's quantified somewhere but these papers are pretty opaque for us laypeople. But apparently the effect *is* tangible b/c it's measurable in lab studies. I remember listening to the "The Real Science in Sport" podcast where they talk about cold water immersion inhibiting strength & recovery. They mention one study where the protocol involved putting participants though rigorous strength training routines and then ONLY ICING ONE limb (like one leg or one arm). So each individual was basically their own control. Strength & recovery was blunted in the limb which received cold treatment.
It's somewhat analogous to taking aspirin to reduce fever (well not REALLY, but kinda?). Fever is a mechanism the body uses to help destroy foreign invaders (viruses & infections). Taking medication that reduce a fever might make u feel better, but depending on the seriousness of the fever, artificially blunting that defense mechanism could actually prolong your illness. So it might be better to just endure the discomfort/pain of a high grade fever... or endure the discomfort from inflammation & muscle soreness after a hard training session.
Thank you for taking recent research, putting it into context and then providing direction. I’m a 62 yo retired woman, slightly overweight, I do cardio 4-6 times a week, and strength/resistence 2-3 times a week. Your videos often motivate me. It was good at the end of your talk to hear you emphasize the importance of sleep and mood.
Very impressive. Respect.
Woow, so inspiring! How do you recover so well to do all this training?
@@One-Ring-To-Rule-Them-All heat therapy. Ha! Sleep, stretches, eating mostly whole foods. Seriously, though, lots of heat therapy and massage. I try to get anaerobic cardio 3 of the 4-6 times. About ten years ago, I was borderline everything bad. Now, no red flags, no medications.
For the algorithm- we need to increase this channel -Layne is the 🐐
The point about reaction to events is gold.
Have to be careful with hot bath after exercise. It can lower your blood pressure enough that you pass out, and then drowning is a real risk.
Perfect timing, just as I got in from work ❤ very interesting thanks for keeping it research focused and I like your well rounded view.
Thank goodness! I love my long, hot, post-workout showers.
I ALWAYS feel better with a warm bath after a hard workout. It’s my go to post long run routine, though in the summer it’s a bit less fun lol.
Sounds like the hot tub is vastly superior if it speeds up recovery. It also increases blood plasma volume.
When I take a really hot bath all the stress melts off and my body relaxes and I get a better sleep. Even if it didn't help with recovery I'd still do it for those reasons, which coincidentally help with sleep anyways.
Whatever improves sleep would improve recovery.
@@nikitaw1982 100%
Normal people sleep better after hot (or just warm) bath. I am the opposite - my body struggles to cool down, palms of hands and feet are blazing of heat, heart rate is elevated.
Cold plunge or hose-down works wonders, hr drops to low 40's and lethargy sets in.
In my case I am wondering if the significantly improved sleep quality after cold exposure outweighs the damping of mTor activity with the cold.
Some thoughts about sauna:
First a disclosure, I love proper hot sauna.
The people from origin of sauna (where I live, also Finland, rest of Baltics, North-Eastern Russia) consider sauna from 90 deg C for women, children and elderly.
100 to 120 deg C is not uncommon for men. That is on level that as a seasoned weight lifter and a running athlete I can not recommend as recovery modality to take up daily. A good session of this sauna is equivalent to a reasonable cardio workout in intensity. Heart rate going up to 70..80% hr max is common. I can attest it is very beneficial for muscles, yet it is the opposite to recovery on full body level. That is why our people have tradition of sauna on Sundays, once a week.
In US you may go to a different sauna, like the 'term' in Rome or Turkish sauna. Then there is 'Euro Sauna', most of the time with electric heater - severely under powered compared to the real thing. These are comparatively very mild and perhaps comparable to hot bath in effect (still not yakuzi level). I argue that a proper yakuzi bath is too hot to be usable as daily recovery tool, as well.
5:00 I would argue any inflammatory reduction methods should be used for upcoming performance benefits rather than during any training phase. if you need them in a peaking/tapering phase, you're doing this work at too high of volume and too near the performance. as you said, repeat performances, same day or across days, do what you need which makes you feel better, but if building towards a performance... you should probably recover more.
Before I built my home gym, I used to work out at the place that had a different saunas and cold water mini pool for plunging. After workouts, I used to spend like 10-15 minutes in regular sauna then plunge into the cold water for couple of minutes, then 10-15 minutes in steam sauna (Turkish sauna?) and back into cold water for few minutes. I wonder how that kind of protocol affects muscle building and recovery. Tbh, I did that because it felt nice and it helped with my lower back issues (pain and stiffness for old injuries), but now I am curious in general. I think standard procedure in Nordic countries is to plunge in ice cold water after sauna all the time. Maybe someone will do studies on that...
The study’s probably in Swedish. Some people do coke bath BEFORE exercise to stimulate metabolism. Cheaper than coffee.
Thank you!!
For the algorithm ! Also good news that my hot showers and sauna are superior to the cold suffering :D
Always nice to have science backup experience. I'm a long distance runner that takes hot baths. It seems to help and speed up recovery after a 20 mile run or workout.
Thanks, doc!
very helpful for where I'm currently at with my weight training
I like you style and content (scientific) provided. Keep it up.
My arthritis sure prefers hot baths and saunas!!
I knew that by just what works.
I guess there are people out there who like to do a cold plunge but I am not one of them!! Thanks for the info I will continue with the hot shower after the workout!
I have actually been doing sauna post-workout or on off-days for the past 3 weeks or so.
Idk how much I have been placebo'ing myself, but I feel more recovered now in prep for a powerlifting competition.
I do either 2 x 15 mins on a lower height in the sauna. Or 1 x 15-20mins at the top height of the sauna. Cold shower after. And then normal confortable-warm shower to wash it all away
To reap the benefits from both the hot and cold bath just mix them together and enjoy your double benefits
I think Dr. Andy Galpin has studies showing cold plunge before weight training does not inhibit protein synthesis. I could be misremembering but would love to see Dr Layne and Dr Andy together
The way some people go on about cold baths it’s like I’m missing out on all my gains if I don’t take cold showers.
Let me tell you, even if it could add inches to my unit, I still wouldn’t do it. Bloody stupid
Love a good hot bath and always wonder if I should be adding in cold plunges. Thank you as always for these videos! Also hope you faired well after the storms, hurricanes are a bitch this year around here.
Having enough quality and quantity of food is also a big lever regarding recovery modalities right?
Great video per usual. You should make some content reacting to the channel What I've Learned. The creator (Joseph Everett) makes incredibly well produced, well written and organized, and engaging videos on seed oils, fasting, ketosis, the mtor-aging connection, sleep, and other trendy stuff. He will also often reference primary research and review articles, displaying them in the video. Despite how shiny the videos are his actual analysis and conclusions aren't very rigorous and he engages in motivated reasoning, right up your alley for a quick debunking. He isn't trained in science and it shows.
Scientific sins aside he's a great example of how to make engaging, long form content, despite being wrong often
Have there been any studies about the difference between sauna and cold plunge together versus sauna alone?
Scandinavians will sauna then sit in snow for example.
Hi Dr Norton. I wondered if you'd ever consider doing some content regarding women's training and diet in perimenopause and menopause. There is little information out there from credible sources I think. Thank you so much for your videos and your How to Lose Fat and KEEP it Off. it's a not an easy read, but I'm working through it! Thank you
do ice cold plunge then work out its the best then after work out do hot np
Personally I notice that ice baths help with my shin splints in addition to regular hot baths
Hi Dr Layne
Love what you’re doing🙏🏼
What’s your thoughts on Michael Greger MD’s research on all kinds of poultry,seafood,fish and meat is cancerous? Is this research thorough?
Why aren't people discussing why are books like "Health and Beauty Mastery" by Julian Bannett being censored for exposing lies health industry and pharma are pushing?
I got it, truly a good book
Bots
divide by zero robot
What’s an example?
Bots. I saw the same comment on a Peter Attia video. And exactly the same number of likes. Pointing to a scamy website of a book with no reviews from person with no credentials. Fortunately learning from real scientists and researches can be free. Like here! Please no one spend money on sketchy webpages. You are welcome
Now we need a combined study. Hot then cold then hot then cold is the best.
According to no evidence
need a study of an ice bath IN a sauna. Hot and cold at the same time
yes i know that doesnt work
This cold plunge trend is for the birds. I love my sauna time
Would you say the same thing for chryo therapy?
41C is barely warm not hot
I need more info about short cold showers after a workout...
Don’t throw the baby out with the ice bath water. Missed opportunity.
Do you guys whittle when you ruminate?
I wonder if you created a video about turmeric. I heard that anti-inflammatory medicines or even cold plunges hinder muscle growth that depends on inflammation. But how about turmeric found in curcumin? Is it safe to consume if gaining muscle is my goal?
What about just bath
Ive noticed My legs recover neste when i do both
First ice water then sauna and repeat this many Times
I also trust experience nd words of Teemu Selänne
Our Finnish hockey Legend
He played for ovet 40s and i documentaryy showed behind scenes in teams bathroom there were hot water and cold water pools where he jumped from one to other nd so his legs could tke The punishment
Algorithm
Algo Rhythm
I hear cold plunge before workout is good
And sleep
I like old school hot Epsom salt baths the evening after hard training
I love a hot bath after football
This burst a bunch of peoples bubbles
For the algorithm 🎉
agrolythm
As a lifter who trains 3 hours a day, I started cold plunge daily. I totally feel the metabolism slow down. I like how it helps with sleep though. So now I just plunge on Sunday evening
Why do i need an 8 minute video to tell me which is better, just tell me if i should take a warm or cold shower to make my mucles recover faster
CFtA
❤❤
This came at the perfect time. My buddies invited me to cold water and sauna this Friday and I politely said "no"
Why no
One time isn't going to make a difference, go hang out with your friends. You never know when you'll no longer have the chance.
No friend of mine would ever ask me to take an ice bath.
Not a fan of having my balls sucked up into my groin.
Comment
The takeaway: please do wash yourself, cold, hot warm, just, you know, wash yourself
Four thee Al Gore rhythm!!!!!!!
4D algorithm
fact is many cant handle the ice cold lol fact.
FTA
No wonder I love hot baths... I hate cold. I am.a Brit though lol
Best method for recovery? Study Stoicism
Roe Jogan is going to be disappointed...
Get out of that ice bath! Lazy ice bather.
Dont let the gym bros see this
No kidding. Some are like “hot showers are stealing your gains, lowering your T, making your GF cheat on you” 😂
@@MisterOcclusionit’s true bro, i accidentally took a room temp shower the other day and my gf got a gf of her own 😞
Algorithming. Word of advice Dr. , if you want clicks stop being rational, fair and balanced.
Speaking on recovery, can you make a video about massage guns? I love their use to loosen tight muscles, pain management and relaxation, but what about their effects on recovery?
it helps you relax which in turn helps you recover more, but renaissance periodization did a video on all of those things recently and scientifically it doesnt do much.
Dr Alo dr Idz and dr Norton what a social media clowns...and liars
algorithm
Fta
I would appreciate, if you stopped screaming from my computer in my room... thanks, seriously
Cold plunge is nicer after a sauna. Probably both beats either
Rubbish. If I go for a run at the beach. I then wade around in water at 15 degrees celcius for a few minutes. I recover so fast that I can immediately go for another run and I beat the performance of my prior run. By at least 2 %.. and I have never had any injuries..
what about contrast bath?
I would like and subscribe when you start doing videos without all the cussing because I'm trying to watch to learn but it is offensive to hear that bleep this and bleep that and my husband will make me turn the TV off if he hears all the bleeping
I live in North Dakota. Cold plunge every winter day. Moving to Texas where I can do a "Hillbilly sauna" in my Hummer during the Summer. 🏊🏻🏋🏻
For the algorithm
So I’m not disputing the science here, nor am I intending to throw out the catch-all of 'placebo,' but after a few weeks of running, lifting weights, playing sports, and swimming, everything starts to build up. On a day when I sauna and do an ice bath, even if it’s only placebo, it really seems to help. It calms my mind since I tend to stress about recovery for my next activity, as well as focusing me towards recovery, which then leads to increaswd calories from good sources, increased protein etc.
I was also curious about the degree to which an ice bath might affect muscle strength and size gains. Could this be the bodybuilding equivalent to the 'anabolic window' myth? Layne has pointed out before that while the anabolic window exists, its impact is marginal and not worth obsessing over. Could cold exposure be similar-where the effect on muscle growth is real but perhaps exaggerated?
It's been known for a long time that ice baths are generally not the ideal protocol during training b/c icing inhibits/reduces inflammation. But Inflammation is a necessary mechanism that trigger metabolic processes required to "rebuild" damaged muscle fibers. Sure you might feel better psychologically & physically b/c icing relieves reduces inflammation, but you are simply delaying muscle repair which isn't ideal in the long term for building strength. But like Norton said, ice baths can have a purpose... like if you're a T&F athlete having to run multiple rounds in a single day. Relieving inflammation between rounds is more important than the insignificant muscle growth stimulus you'd achieve from a single day of activity. You ask is the "effect on muscle growth real but exaggerated"? You'd have to read the research papers to figure that out... I'm sure it's quantified somewhere but these papers are pretty opaque for us laypeople. But apparently the effect *is* tangible b/c it's measurable in lab studies. I remember listening to the "The Real Science in Sport" podcast where they talk about cold water immersion inhibiting strength & recovery. They mention one study where the protocol involved putting participants though rigorous strength training routines and then ONLY ICING ONE limb (like one leg or one arm). So each individual was basically their own control. Strength & recovery was blunted in the limb which received cold treatment.
It's somewhat analogous to taking aspirin to reduce fever (well not REALLY, but kinda?). Fever is a mechanism the body uses to help destroy foreign invaders (viruses & infections). Taking medication that reduce a fever might make u feel better, but depending on the seriousness of the fever, artificially blunting that defense mechanism could actually prolong your illness. So it might be better to just endure the discomfort/pain of a high grade fever... or endure the discomfort from inflammation & muscle soreness after a hard training session.
Thank the Lord, so much false information out there. If you are happy to sit in an ice bath do it… but your not helping your muscles
Cold before a workout... hot after.
FTA
FTA