In Norway Tibber has Grid Rewards. They use thousands of eletric cars standby ready to charge, or stop charge. That used for get more stabile grid. Therfor they pay people to use the grid rewards. Therfor i have wery cheap charging. Later they maby also would use for heaters.
I’ve been on Agile since October 2023 as this gives me the cheapest way of buying electricity and running my heat pump in the winter (daily consumption is higher than battery storage). Looked at changing back to Flux for the summer but the benefits of the better export were marginal compared to the higher overall import prices. Agile needs decent battery automation, I use Home Assistant and Predbat which does a great job.
Trying to market a company with spin ,not vey helpful,when you view the energy market as a whole , entitlement attitude, seems to be in the air.expecting another rude reply.
@@denniscarvell1828this isn’t a rude reply, but it is a confused one. What on earth are you on about? Where was the spin? What entitlement attitude? Why do you want to view the market as a whole when this is clearly a video about one company and one tariff? If you don’t like Octopus Energy nobody is making you use them.
Ive been on Agile since October ‘23 and it has been a well named tariff. Using the Octoprice app I can see it has saved me nearly £700 in 2024, but to achieve that I have had to check the half hourly prices for the next 24 hours and set my charging schedule accordingly. I have seen people mention automation and I’m interested in perhaps having a go at that next year. My export is Octopus fixed as I don’t have a big enough battery to export during peak periods, I have received £183 this year in export credit. My house battery and seven solar panels along with Agile have saved me over £1300 this year! I’m going to have a chat with my dad about this storage heater tariff as I think that is what he has got
absolutely each unto their own, the only downside to using storage heaters is that because they’re based on a resistive heating element they’re only gonna be a maximum of 100% efficient. With the Heat Pump we can get four times the amount of heat for the same amount of electricity.
I currently live in a 1960's block of flats with storage heaters that were upgraded around 15 years ago. Agree that they are an effective option, the main downside has been the Economy 7 tariff cheap rate which only operates from 12.30 - 7.30am in winter. Now on Agile with no time restrictions so can make use of cheap or even negative pricing when available though it requires manual switching... even so, it's transformed the benefit of these excellent units.
@@JonathanTracey It would be very nice but the units aren't socketed so can't insert a timer plug😏 TBH Cosy would be a reasonable option given the timing periods but Snug wouldn't offer much advantage despite the penny reduction on off-peak rate.
Intelligent Octopus cheap rate is 7p/kWh not 7.5p/kWh. It works superbly for me now I have a house battery as well as an EV. Virtually all my electricity is now at 7p/kWh as I charge the house battery overnight and it powers the house all day.
yeah sorry just realised i made a mistake in the IOG tariff. If you have batteries of sufficient capacity then as you say all your power can be at that cheap rate, but not everyone can afford them so good to see octopus bringing in tariffs for everyone else
@@JonathanTraceyI often recommend Cosy to people who have small batteries this time of year, as it gives three chances to charge on cheap rate throughout the day. A guy posted a video the other day, just got a heat pump, he's on Agile and only has a 6.4 kWh battery, that's likely going to get expensive on Agile.
Same, but has anyone noticed with these extra cheap periods, for instance on IG you can just re-connect your EV each day (no actual charging needed) and it drops the higher rate to the lower one for much of the day typically? Taking advantage of this dynamically is another thing, but it’s pretty easy to get 16+ hours per day at the cheap rate, even today with next to no solar/wind…
Do you have a video on the Daikin ONECTA app. I've had my Heatpump for a week now and I'm finding the app doesn't give much info on energy consumption and I'm unable to find any COP readings?
no sorry the app is pretty rubbish to be honest, the only way i have found to get a COP reading is to goto the MMI find the information page, get heat generated and divide it by electricity used
@@JonathanTracey All I had to do was transfer all the heating loads to a fresh DB with our own timer & contactor so we control when the storage heaters come on & off. P.S. The heating DB is on the non-backup side of the Tesla Gateway so we don't use the Powerwall for heating during a power failure.
I did almost exactly the same with my Heat Pump, we isolated it so that it wouldn’t drain the batteries when we were running an off grid mode. It would mean we don’t have any heating during a major power outage, but I can always plug in small electric radiators or fan heaters if we need it.
@@JonathanTracey I used to agree with you but since May I've had shocking service from Octopus. They [Octopus] removed my meter in May but the account still isn't closed, guy left the gas meter box open with the handle sticking out. In August I moved over to e.On Next Drive and had no problems, cheaper over night at 6.7p and 7 hours cheap period. Octopus though still haven't given me a final electricity bill and still being charged a direct debit each month. Phones calls, emails and emails to complaints and I've given up on them. Set my direct debit to £1 a month and just waiting for them to sort themselves out.
And storage heaters may still have a place when matched with heat pumps going forward. If the country finds that it requires power to be turned down at peak times in the evening so that even our heat pumps need to be switched off, a simple heat store in the main room might be the simplest/cheapest way to achieve comfortable evenly warm living room temperature. Mitsubishi already have heat storage system planned into their heat pump systems but these require big hot water stores and are unlikely to work well in our smaller homes in the UK. However a really well insulated hot brick store might well provide enough heat to smooth power demand over 2-3 hours in the witching hours, 16:00 to 19:00. The storage heater is beautifully simple in its design with just 4 or more heavy bricks encased in an insulated capsule which has an electric cooker type element at the heart of it. The element heats up for 4-7 hours overnight and the insulated cabinet releases the heat out gently throughout the day. The electrical components have a realistically long life of 10 years or more and can be swapped out by any competent electrician in an hour or so. Of course we need our homes to be well insulated and swap old air for warmed air via heat recovery systems, but these old fashioned simple storage heaters are just part of the mix.
Thank you for such a well-considered comment! I completely agree that storage heaters can still play a valuable role in modern heating strategies, especially when paired with systems like heat pumps. The idea of using a heat store to maintain a comfortable, evenly warm living room temperature during peak times is not only practical but also aligns with the need to balance grid demand. Mitsubishi’s approach to integrating heat storage with their heat pumps is certainly innovative, though, as you point out, the need for large hot water stores can be a challenge in the smaller homes typical of the UK. A compact, well-insulated hot brick store sounds like a fantastic alternative-low-tech, reliable, and capable of bridging the demand gap during peak hours like 16:00 to 19:00. I also appreciate your point about the simplicity and longevity of traditional storage heaters. Their straightforward design and durability make them an excellent candidate for inclusion in a broader mix of heating solutions, particularly in homes that have invested in proper insulation and heat recovery systems. Ultimately, it’s about finding the right combination of technologies to suit different homes and lifestyles. Thank you for shedding light on this-your insights are a great contribution to the conversation about sustainable and efficient heating solutions for the future!
So, the standing charge runs at the thick end of 50p/day. Historically, the standing charge was to pay for the infrastructure, i.e., the metre and the metre man! E.on's standing charges are 30p each for Gas and electricity. This is where the retail provider's profit margin is. Everything else is just polishing a turd.
the charge goes to the DNO not the energy provider, as you have no choice who your DNO is it’s basically a tax. it pays for the delivery network is what they say but they never have to justify raising it every chance they get
Why not a contract that simply passes through the price signal of the hourly day-ahead electricity market? I know it's available at least in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain. Is this incompatible with UK regulations?
I live in a large apartment complex in Hertfordshire. It was built around 2001 and all the umits had Dimplex storage heaters (and hot water cylinders) powered via a separate consumer unit that came alive when switched from the 5th port of the electricity meter. ( Originally these were not smart but most have been replaced since then) As a voluntary director of the estate management board I get many queries regarding frightening electricity bills now particularly from residents with no understanding of dual rate electricity supplies. I've already been in contact with Octopus regarding the Snug tariff but so far it seems that even their support staff don't understand how it works! All the heaters are currently 'charged' via the 5th port / separate consumer units but this has no feedback regarding room temperatures so how would the extra "boost" times be triggered? ( Originally all 143 flats were on E10 tariffs but gradually these have degraded to E7 meaning that by evening things can get chilly!)
I and a few other residents have replaced the original (dumb ) Dimplex storage heaters with the newer types that are much more efficient with both off peak and 24h power supplies. These have much improved insulation and output control using quiet thermostatically controlled fans but the high purchase costs are too high for many. The original units relied on E10 tariffs with afternoon boost . I'll report back on the Snug tariff after some testing as I have a mixture of the old and newer heaters in two flats that I own.
Do they offer cheaper nighttime tariffs for prepaid meters, I have one by choice because I can never get into debt and I don't pay any standing charges, I've had my smart meters for the oast 15 years and would never go back to direct debit. I only pay for what I use, no standing charges means I save about £30 per month & if I want to go away for any length of time I chose it won't cost me a penny because I won't be using any electricity.
sorry have I no experience of prepaid meters. i was under the impression standing charges were paid even with prepaid meters. it maybe they are built into your per kw charges
Interesting new Octopus tariff, I’ve not heard about this one. The tie-in to specific meter-wired storage heaters is going to limit its appeal though, I think Octopus should have introduced this as Intelligent Snug and had a non-intelligent version of Snug with just the cheap fixed overnight and 1 hour afternoon periods for customers without the compatible storage heaters. Would get much more uptake this way? BTW, minor correction, [5:30], people with smart meters in the North of England and Scotland, their connectivity is not due to 3G issues, it’s due to the Arquiva radio network not giving sufficient radio coverage. The 3G DCC smart meters data collection contract covers Central and Southern England not the North.
@ no it's basically a mess. The government created 3 contracts for DCC smart meter data collection and specified that the Central and Southern were to be by 3G and the Northern by radio due to perceived 3G coverage limitations in the North. In reality the radio coverage can be just as bad but the supplier can say they've met the required 99% coverage of whatever it is. One fix is to issue combined 3G/radio smart meters but there's officially no contract for this service and thus no support
ofgem should raise a failure to comply with the contract and cease payment to the company. It might be worth an email to your local MP and also copying in the Secretary of State.
@@JonathanTracey I believe the problem is with the original contract, it specifies a % coverage rate but even at 99.5% coverage that’s still tens of thousands of customers without a working smart meter. Bad contract. But that’s my opinion. Best course is to escalate to the Ombudsman if your meter isn’t working
I don’t understand in this day and age why smart meters can’t just connect to your Wi-Fi and send the data that way, if it’s good enough for banking surely it’s good enough for energy data
looks like were creeping back to the old domestic and off peak tariff, but this time all on the one meter .The old tariff gave off peak rates on and off throughout the day/night weekdays and…all day saturday and sunday
For some yes but I think they will push for models where they control devices more and more, Intelligent Go is a good example, the car charges when its best for them. So long as its ready when you need it why do you care. Same for Snug, so long as your house is warm why do you mind if they control the heating
Another good tariff for older properties that have not got a ev, heat pump, or battery / solar if they have none compatible storage heaters they could just change one on octopus list to qualify. It’s the standard charge I would like to see octopus energy put more pressure on the government about lowering it or doing away with it ? My electric bill for the year is now 62% standard charge 38% electric if I were 10 years younger I would have more solar and bigger battery and do away with mains electric .
@Glyn001 I fully agree, I did look at the cost of a compatible storage eater and they seem to be in the £500-£700 range. That could easily be recouped with the savings from this tariff. I agree with you on the standing charge, however given this is passed on to the DNO, and they are unlikely to want to give up that revenue. I see new tariffs coming towards the end of next year that will have the standing charge built-in to the usage cost. Unfortunately, that looks like Those of us that use very little will benefit and those are a high energy users will end up paying even more, this is because the DNO won’t want to take a cut in revenue therefore the charge will need to be shared out. Now you could argue that those that use more should pay more But this generally impacts those on lower budgets as they have no ability to get away from the high costs.
Only a matter of time befor the cheap tariff is normal price and normal becomes tarrif becomes prohibative. Goals posts moved to not benefit the consumer
it’s contacted out and there are too few people doing it. they should just go postcode by postcode, start with those who could benefit the most from cheaper tarrifs
@@yupan9089 I had Octopus fit a gas smart meter in October as I wanted to go onto the tracker tariff. My dog jumped on the engineer and pushed him over into a raised bed of roses and he slipped into a bird bath.
Can’t even see snug on their website, even in their comparison page. Currently on Agile, will stay on that as EV only needs charging once or twice a week so just charge when it’s below 5p and quite often negative price. Have a boiler and hot water tank, looking to heat water at night when the electricity is more affordable than gas. Will get a smart immersion heater for the hot water for that. Cheers
I am on Agile and have storage heaters - great when there are periods of cheap or negative pricing! Octopus have removed the timing restrictions so I can switch them on manually at any time 😃 Wonder why Cosy is only available to heat pump users when the time periods would be well suited to storage radiators.. not a lot of difference in the off-peak rates 🤔
What annoys me about these tarrifs is how they insist you can only have this tarrif if you have x y and z installed in your house. What I have installed in my house is none of their business. They should provide cheap electricity between x - y hours and I should be able to use that for whatever I want! If I want to heat my fish pond using cheap electric during the night, so be it!
Hi Chris, , thanks for sharing your thoughts-I can see where you're coming from! It’s true that some tariffs, especially the newer smart ones, have specific requirements like a smart meter or certain technologies installed. The reason for this is that companies offer lower prices in exchange for something valuable: data on how and when energy is used. This data helps them balance the grid more efficiently and reduce costs overall. That said, it’s important to note that even with a smart tariff, they don’t have any insight into what you’re using the energy for unless you explicitly grant them access. So, whether it’s heating a fish pond or charging an EV, the choice of how you use your energy during the cheap hours is entirely yours! If you’re looking for a simple low-cost option without needing a smart meter or specific installations, Economy 7 from Octopus is a great alternative. It provides cheaper electricity during off-peak hours and is available regardless of your setup. I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
It’s a carrot. Solar panels, EVs, home batteries and ASHPs can help balance the grid and/or reduce emissions. If you just got cheap energy with no strings attached, would you be more or less likely to invest in the technology?
@@JonathanTracey hi thanks for the reply. I can see why they need you to have a smart meter, I have one myself but beyond that there should be no requirement to have solar, an EV, batteries etc. Especially when they then insist on "MCS" certification before they'll offer you certain tariffs. If you're on a smart meter EVERYONE should get cheap energy during those night time hours by default. You shouldn't need to be on a special tariff.
When you have cheap off peak hours you pay more for standard hours so you only benefit if you use substantially more in the off peak period. It sounds like you want cheaper off peak hours that give you a higher overall bill. Not many people would be interested in that which is probably why its not offered.
I completely agree with this surely its down to the customer what works best for them what does it matter what you own. Plus what happens when you don't have the thing they say you need do you lose the tariff if you upgrade the storage heaters?
Smart tarrif great if smart meter working l am on 3rd and still not working properly. If smart meter not working they state have revert to standard tarrif. They won’t estimate use Hopefully sorted soon
Yeah, I can imagine it’s a little annoying that something that is outside of your control is stopping you from saving money. Do you know what the issue with the smart meter is? They seem to rely upon mobile phone networks and in areas where the coverage is poor or non existent you’re kind of stuck. You would think in this day and age there would be a way to allow a smart meter to send its data over your wifi.
@@JonathanTracey I am in Scotland and they use radio frequency. My neighbour got a cellular meter but they octopus won’t give me one . Still pressing them Hopefully new meters can work on wifi in future. . The ombudsman man will not help with smart meters . It’s frustrating as I am all electric.
I don’t know if this would work for you, but I was struggling to get them to install a gas meter. So I changed providers for gas as part of being enrolled with a new provider all of a sudden the gas meter got installed. I don’t switch back to octopus three months later.
4:18 knew there would be a catch (or maybe not, not an official video), Octopus trying to run your life with apps? Mobile comms companies were trying the same in the early 2000's, trying to add services to data provision. Are the storage heaters on a HCALCS circuit? Sounds like it, but a funny type if not with Zigbee SE. Broken SMETS2, if you need a special Octopus meter?
I remember a time before private companies charging what they like for gas, leccy... State owned in uk.... Good times with really cheap bills... The good old days before thatcher started this system 😢🇬🇧
I never found them particularly cheap, but the good factor was that the profits did not go to some offshore business account. The problem was that the treasury kept dipping it fingers in the till.
@user-bz9cb8bp2y Ah, the nostalgia for the days when our biggest energy concern was whether the kettle would boil before "Coronation Street" started. But let's not forget, blaming Mrs. Thatcher for today's energy prices is like blaming the Romans for London's traffic jams-time moves on, and so do the complexities of our utilities! After all, if we keep pointing fingers at the past, we might miss the chance to find current solutions. As the saying goes, "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
@ Jonathan, yes time moves on and our bills have marched forward at an uncomfortable pace... Time to get rid of middle men and go back to state control.. That's the trouble with the older folk... We remember how it was and can recognise how bad it is now you might not like the truth... But you do have an agenda to protect.. And a lot of money to buy the toys that fit into your ideal world... For the rest of us... It's the daily fight just to keep warm... ❤️🇬🇧
I’m also cold enough to remember state controlled businesses, I think you may be remembering the past through Rose tinted glasses. No, I’m not saying today’s versions are any better but I’m not sure I want to go back to the days of one energy supplier with no choice And run by incompetent bureaucrats. I’d like to know what agenda you are referring to as I’m pretty sure I’m not subscribed to any agenda and if I don’t know what the age agenda is how am I supposed to protect it?
@jonathan...the reality of looking through young eyes to the reality of affordable energy with 1 state controlled market, unlike the many options of many companies who buy at cost and we get to pay though the nose (keeping shareholders happy).. We could go on for hours over this mate... You are financially in a better place and that's OK... Spare a thought for the rest of us with no choice but to get screwed for gas, leccy.... Leaves a very bitter taste.. Which never goes 👍❤️🇬🇧
@@JonathanTraceynot yet 😢😢😢😢 but Octopus does have a presence in France but they’re only offering fixed price tariffs at present (or at least when I last looked)
@@antwnpowellInterested to know which provider you are with? I would like to put panels on the roof but I didn’t think the French export tariffs were that attractive. I have a 3 phase supply so could probably have a decent export rate. We have a Linky smart meter which has heure plein and heure creuse rates. It might be difficult to get a second solar system approved by the ‘financial controller’ as we’ve already spent £24k on a system on our Uk house 🤓
firstly, they’re not getting a subsidised rate as somebody else isn’t paying the rest of their bill. What they’re getting is cheaper rate electricity. The reason they’re getting it cheaper is that the energy company has a surplus at that time, and as we don’t have the ability to store that amount of power in the grid the energy company will sell it cheaper rather than shut down the power stations. By making it available at a lower cost they encourage people to time shift their usage. This means the power stations can continue to output their power, the energy company can continue to sell it and users can continue to consume.
I doubt it is, if you look at Agile it's often very cheap, sometimes negative, and this reflects the actual cost that Octopus pays for all electric it sells at that time. Now the cheaper periods on things like Go, Cosy, Snug etc are cost averaged with these cheaper periods, some tariffs also have much more expensive periods, again this averages the cost out. Another thing these tariffs are designed to do is move the heavy loads to periods of lower demand. 16:00 to 19:00 is generally very high demand, imagine if everyone with an EV charged at that time when the majority get home from work, so they give cheaper rates overnight to encourage charging when demand is lower. It's far more complicated when you actually look into it.
from what I’ve read the cost of turning off a wind turbine for a few hours and turning it back on fire exceeds the cost of octopus of just giving away the power it generates in that period. Turning off a gas fire power station is not a simple thing to do, and requires many hours to shut down and many more hours to start back up again. With nuclear, you just can’t turn it off.
The standard flat rate price (currently around 25p) insulates the consumer from the actual wholesale price variations. At peak times (4pm to 7pm) the electricity companies might actually make a loss but they make it up during the rest of the day. The smart tariffs encourage consumers to use electricity when it is actually cheaper. For example, the Cosy 4pm to 7pm price is 35p and today the Agile price is 40p. If I imported electricity during these times I’d be subsidising those paying the standard price.
@nickbirch2123 Energy company planners have network-wide data and base tariffs to hit an average per user across hundreds of thousands of users. Some days they take a hit, some days they make a profit, but overall they have a target margin to hit and given their success, it’s likely a healthy margin.
Octopus leads others TRY to follow. I not sure I agree with you about your conservatory not being allowed to be on your wet system. Mine is and it works well and didn’t require planning permission.
@ Thought so! Lighter coloured case than the 64, but tricky to tell for sure with the lighting. Been playing some Commodore PET stuff the last few weeks. Some amazing stuff on that machine considering the limitations (can’t define your own graphics for example). Moved on to the Dragon for now, as due to the grey weather it is nice to see some green in your life! I like to rotate what systems I play every few weeks.
I don’t get my Commodore pet out very often as the damn thing weighs a ton :-) I am missing a dragon 32 from my collection, every time I bid on one on eBay somebody jumps in at the last minute and I end up losing it. I have just got my hands on an orc Atmos but I need to do some work on the power supply to get it going.
@ I’ve come to not trust the original power supplies., I tend to pick up newer ones from some of the more reputable retro stores. At least you know you have the right size connector and the polarity (should) be the right way round. I do have a PET in the garage. It doesn’t work, but the weight stops the garage blowing away in winter storms. I just find emulation so much easier, though you can’t beat getting the real things out every now and then. Seem to spend more time trying to keep them working than using them!
What we really need is for the entire electricity supply industry to be taken into public ownership, the aggregated costs of generation to be averaged out and a single rate tariff applied to everyone, instead of the cheapest tariffs offered to the wealthiest..
i’m just about old enough to remember the days of nationalised industries, they were rubbish. Always on strike and delivering very poor quality services and hugely wasteful because there was little to no oversight. Customers had no option but to put up with it because there was nowhere else to go.
We need energy generation on buildings - solar and micro-wind. That needs to be backed up by community energy, then municipal (council owned) energy, then any shortfall made up with nationalised energy. Just because something was run badly doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad.
I did actually look into the possibility of building a local solar farm, with all of the energy being supplied to people in the local area. You wouldn’t believe the red tape, it becomes financially unviable very quickly.
Never seen such a rude bunch of people as this lot at Octopus. They never say please or thank you in any payment. They send customers a message "Action" when asking for payment. They treat customers like dirt, typical of some rude, badly educated and greedy people in London
@@JonathanTraceyin four years now with Octopus we have never had a message titled “Action” asking for payment. We just get a email with our monthly energy use and billing attached. I have had numerous email and telephone conversations with Octopus staff and have always found them polite. May be it’s how I write my emails or speak to them rather than labelling all of them negatively 😮
What Smart Tariff are you on?
In Norway Tibber has Grid Rewards. They use thousands of eletric cars standby ready to charge, or stop charge. That used for get more stabile grid. Therfor they pay people to use the grid rewards. Therfor i have wery cheap charging. Later they maby also would use for heaters.
I’ve been on Agile since October 2023 as this gives me the cheapest way of buying electricity and running my heat pump in the winter (daily consumption is higher than battery storage). Looked at changing back to Flux for the summer but the benefits of the better export were marginal compared to the higher overall import prices. Agile needs decent battery automation, I use Home Assistant and Predbat which does a great job.
Trying to market a company with spin ,not vey helpful,when you view the energy market as a whole , entitlement attitude, seems to be in the air.expecting another rude reply.
@@denniscarvell1828this isn’t a rude reply, but it is a confused one. What on earth are you on about? Where was the spin? What entitlement attitude? Why do you want to view the market as a whole when this is clearly a video about one company and one tariff? If you don’t like Octopus Energy nobody is making you use them.
Ive been on Agile since October ‘23 and it has been a well named tariff. Using the Octoprice app I can see it has saved me nearly £700 in 2024, but to achieve that I have had to check the half hourly prices for the next 24 hours and set my charging schedule accordingly. I have seen people mention automation and I’m interested in perhaps having a go at that next year. My export is Octopus fixed as I don’t have a big enough battery to export during peak periods, I have received £183 this year in export credit. My house battery and seven solar panels along with Agile have saved me over £1300 this year!
I’m going to have a chat with my dad about this storage heater tariff as I think that is what he has got
I have 1980s storage heater system. Simple and effective, no servicing, no plumbing, no gas risk. No brainer in my mind.
absolutely each unto their own, the only downside to using storage heaters is that because they’re based on a resistive heating element they’re only gonna be a maximum of 100% efficient. With the Heat Pump we can get four times the amount of heat for the same amount of electricity.
I currently live in a 1960's block of flats with storage heaters that were upgraded around 15 years ago.
Agree that they are an effective option, the main downside has been the Economy 7 tariff cheap rate which only operates from 12.30 - 7.30am in winter. Now on Agile with no time restrictions so can make use of cheap or even negative pricing when available though it requires manual switching... even so, it's transformed the benefit of these excellent units.
Is there a way that you could automate the heaters so that when the tariff goes low or negative they automatically come on?
@@JonathanTracey It would be very nice but the units aren't socketed so can't insert a timer plug😏
TBH Cosy would be a reasonable option given the timing periods but Snug wouldn't offer much advantage despite the penny reduction on off-peak rate.
@@cwt5654economy 7 usually has its own circuit and meter the becomes active during economy 7 hours so it’s automatically turned on and off
Intelligent Octopus cheap rate is 7p/kWh not 7.5p/kWh. It works superbly for me now I have a house battery as well as an EV. Virtually all my electricity is now at 7p/kWh as I charge the house battery overnight and it powers the house all day.
yeah sorry just realised i made a mistake in the IOG tariff. If you have batteries of sufficient capacity then as you say all your power can be at that cheap rate, but not everyone can afford them so good to see octopus bringing in tariffs for everyone else
@@JonathanTraceyI often recommend Cosy to people who have small batteries this time of year, as it gives three chances to charge on cheap rate throughout the day. A guy posted a video the other day, just got a heat pump, he's on Agile and only has a 6.4 kWh battery, that's likely going to get expensive on Agile.
Same, but has anyone noticed with these extra cheap periods, for instance on IG you can just re-connect your EV each day (no actual charging needed) and it drops the higher rate to the lower one for much of the day typically?
Taking advantage of this dynamically is another thing, but it’s pretty easy to get 16+ hours per day at the cheap rate, even today with next to no solar/wind…
@@TheRonskiman Possibly not if the battery is reserved for the peak Agile rates between 16 and 20 hundred hours?
@@oliver90owner Possibly, but probably better tariffs for small batteries/no batteries.
Do you have a video on the Daikin ONECTA app. I've had my Heatpump for a week now and I'm finding the app doesn't give much info on energy consumption and I'm unable to find any COP readings?
no sorry the app is pretty rubbish to be honest, the only way i have found to get a COP reading is to goto the MMI find the information page, get heat generated and divide it by electricity used
I have storage heaters. I also have an EV, solar and a Tesla Powerwall. I am on Octopus Go and it all works very well for me.
Yeah, I can’t see this tariff being applicable in your case, octopus go is going to be significantly cheaper
@@JonathanTracey All I had to do was transfer all the heating loads to a fresh DB with our own timer & contactor so we control when the storage heaters come on & off. P.S. The heating DB is on the non-backup side of the Tesla Gateway so we don't use the Powerwall for heating during a power failure.
I did almost exactly the same with my Heat Pump, we isolated it so that it wouldn’t drain the batteries when we were running an off grid mode. It would mean we don’t have any heating during a major power outage, but I can always plug in small electric radiators or fan heaters if we need it.
JT…if you ARE a fanboy of Octopus….that makes at least 2 of us. “Go” for me at moment
I think they are a Great British success story. Hopefully they will force others to compete
@@JonathanTracey I used to agree with you but since May I've had shocking service from Octopus. They [Octopus] removed my meter in May but the account still isn't closed, guy left the gas meter box open with the handle sticking out. In August I moved over to e.On Next Drive and had no problems, cheaper over night at 6.7p and 7 hours cheap period. Octopus though still haven't given me a final electricity bill and still being charged a direct debit each month. Phones calls, emails and emails to complaints and I've given up on them. Set my direct debit to £1 a month and just waiting for them to sort themselves out.
@carlarrowsmith that sounds like pretty dreadful customer service. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted for you in the near future.
And storage heaters may still have a place when matched with heat pumps going forward. If the country finds that it requires power to be turned down at peak times in the evening so that even our heat pumps need to be switched off, a simple heat store in the main room might be the simplest/cheapest way to achieve comfortable evenly warm living room temperature. Mitsubishi already have heat storage system planned into their heat pump systems but these require big hot water stores and are unlikely to work well in our smaller homes in the UK. However a really well insulated hot brick store might well provide enough heat to smooth power demand over 2-3 hours in the witching hours, 16:00 to 19:00.
The storage heater is beautifully simple in its design with just 4 or more heavy bricks encased in an insulated capsule which has an electric cooker type element at the heart of it. The element heats up for 4-7 hours overnight and the insulated cabinet releases the heat out gently throughout the day. The electrical components have a realistically long life of 10 years or more and can be swapped out by any competent electrician in an hour or so.
Of course we need our homes to be well insulated and swap old air for warmed air via heat recovery systems, but these old fashioned simple storage heaters are just part of the mix.
Thank you for such a well-considered comment! I completely agree that storage heaters can still play a valuable role in modern heating strategies, especially when paired with systems like heat pumps. The idea of using a heat store to maintain a comfortable, evenly warm living room temperature during peak times is not only practical but also aligns with the need to balance grid demand.
Mitsubishi’s approach to integrating heat storage with their heat pumps is certainly innovative, though, as you point out, the need for large hot water stores can be a challenge in the smaller homes typical of the UK. A compact, well-insulated hot brick store sounds like a fantastic alternative-low-tech, reliable, and capable of bridging the demand gap during peak hours like 16:00 to 19:00.
I also appreciate your point about the simplicity and longevity of traditional storage heaters. Their straightforward design and durability make them an excellent candidate for inclusion in a broader mix of heating solutions, particularly in homes that have invested in proper insulation and heat recovery systems.
Ultimately, it’s about finding the right combination of technologies to suit different homes and lifestyles. Thank you for shedding light on this-your insights are a great contribution to the conversation about sustainable and efficient heating solutions for the future!
I have just noticed that my supply is now being capped at 12.4kw, I have an ev and 2 batteries, last year I was able to draw 14kw
How is it being capped, how do you see it?
@JonathanTracey on a display that came with the smart meter
wow never seen it done on a meter before, did they tell you or just do it
I like hearing about the tariffs but mainly followed as you have a proper Mac and a Vic-20
tip of the iceberg, will change them out in upcoming videos, see what else you can spot
So, the standing charge runs at the thick end of 50p/day. Historically, the standing charge was to pay for the infrastructure, i.e., the metre and the metre man! E.on's standing charges are 30p each for Gas and electricity. This is where the retail provider's profit margin is. Everything else is just polishing a turd.
the charge goes to the DNO not the energy provider, as you have no choice who your DNO is it’s basically a tax. it pays for the delivery network is what they say but they never have to justify raising it every chance they get
Why not a contract that simply passes through the price signal of the hourly day-ahead electricity market? I know it's available at least in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Spain. Is this incompatible with UK regulations?
isn’t that what agile is? or have i got the wrong idea?
Agile, and it’s 30 minute periods.
I live in a large apartment complex in Hertfordshire. It was built around 2001 and all the umits had Dimplex storage heaters (and hot water cylinders) powered via a separate consumer unit that came alive when switched from the 5th port of the electricity meter. ( Originally these were not smart but most have been replaced since then) As a voluntary director of the estate management board I get many queries regarding frightening electricity bills now particularly from residents with no understanding of dual rate electricity supplies. I've already been in contact with Octopus regarding the Snug tariff but so far it seems that even their support staff don't understand how it works! All the heaters are currently 'charged' via the 5th port / separate consumer units but this has no feedback regarding room temperatures so how would the extra "boost" times be triggered? ( Originally all 143 flats were on E10 tariffs but gradually these have degraded to E7 meaning that by evening things can get chilly!)
Keep in touch and let us know how you get on, it could be your heater type is like mine, support may come later
I and a few other residents have replaced the original (dumb ) Dimplex storage heaters with the newer types that are much more efficient with both off peak and 24h power supplies. These have much improved insulation and output control using quiet thermostatically controlled fans but the high purchase costs are too high for many. The original units relied on E10 tariffs with afternoon boost . I'll report back on the Snug tariff after some testing as I have a mixture of the old and newer heaters in two flats that I own.
Thanks would love to hear how you get on
Do they offer cheaper nighttime tariffs for prepaid meters, I have one by choice because I can never get into debt and I don't pay any standing charges, I've had my smart meters for the oast 15 years and would never go back to direct debit. I only pay for what I use, no standing charges means I save about £30 per month & if I want to go away for any length of time I chose it won't cost me a penny because I won't be using any electricity.
sorry have I no experience of prepaid meters. i was under the impression standing charges were paid even with prepaid meters. it maybe they are built into your per kw charges
@@JonathanTracey No, as of last July the prices for direct debit & prepayment meters were made the same. But I still don't pay standing charges.
Interesting new Octopus tariff, I’ve not heard about this one. The tie-in to specific meter-wired storage heaters is going to limit its appeal though, I think Octopus should have introduced this as Intelligent Snug and had a non-intelligent version of Snug with just the cheap fixed overnight and 1 hour afternoon periods for customers without the compatible storage heaters. Would get much more uptake this way?
BTW, minor correction, [5:30], people with smart meters in the North of England and Scotland, their connectivity is not due to 3G issues, it’s due to the Arquiva radio network not giving sufficient radio coverage. The 3G DCC smart meters data collection contract covers Central and Southern England not the North.
thanks for the update on the radio issue, is there a fix planned?
@ no it's basically a mess. The government created 3 contracts for DCC smart meter data collection and specified that the Central and Southern were to be by 3G and the Northern by radio due to perceived 3G coverage limitations in the North. In reality the radio coverage can be just as bad but the supplier can say they've met the required 99% coverage of whatever it is.
One fix is to issue combined 3G/radio smart meters but there's officially no contract for this service and thus no support
ofgem should raise a failure to comply with the contract and cease payment to the company. It might be worth an email to your local MP and also copying in the Secretary of State.
@@JonathanTracey I believe the problem is with the original contract, it specifies a % coverage rate but even at 99.5% coverage that’s still tens of thousands of customers without a working smart meter. Bad contract. But that’s my opinion. Best course is to escalate to the Ombudsman if your meter isn’t working
I don’t understand in this day and age why smart meters can’t just connect to your Wi-Fi and send the data that way, if it’s good enough for banking surely it’s good enough for energy data
looks like were creeping back to the old domestic and off peak tariff, but this time all on the one meter .The old tariff gave off peak rates on and off throughout the day/night weekdays and…all day saturday and sunday
For some yes but I think they will push for models where they control devices more and more, Intelligent Go is a good example, the car charges when its best for them. So long as its ready when you need it why do you care. Same for Snug, so long as your house is warm why do you mind if they control the heating
Another good tariff for older properties that have not got a ev, heat pump, or battery / solar if they have none compatible storage heaters they could just change one on octopus list to qualify. It’s the standard charge I would like to see octopus energy put more pressure on the government about lowering it or doing away with it ? My electric bill for the year is now 62% standard charge 38% electric if I were 10 years younger I would have more solar and bigger battery and do away with mains electric .
@Glyn001 I fully agree, I did look at the cost of a compatible storage eater and they seem to be in the £500-£700 range. That could easily be recouped with the savings from this tariff. I agree with you on the standing charge, however given this is passed on to the DNO, and they are unlikely to want to give up that revenue. I see new tariffs coming towards the end of next year that will have the standing charge built-in to the usage cost. Unfortunately, that looks like Those of us that use very little will benefit and those are a high energy users will end up paying even more, this is because the DNO won’t want to take a cut in revenue therefore the charge will need to be shared out. Now you could argue that those that use more should pay more But this generally impacts those on lower budgets as they have no ability to get away from the high costs.
Only a matter of time befor the cheap tariff is normal price and normal becomes tarrif becomes prohibative. Goals posts moved to not benefit the consumer
you mean prices go up?
That is one heck of a sized mug!
thats the wake me up, morning coffee mug 😂
That’s a bit rude 😂
it’s natural 😂
Octopus couldn’t find anyone to install smart meter after 8 months waiting, never thought people were lining up for these things😂
it’s contacted out and there are too few people doing it. they should just go postcode by postcode, start with those who could benefit the most from cheaper tarrifs
@@yupan9089 I had Octopus fit a gas smart meter in October as I wanted to go onto the tracker tariff. My dog jumped on the engineer and pushed him over into a raised bed of roses and he slipped into a bird bath.
Can’t even see snug on their website, even in their comparison page.
Currently on Agile, will stay on that as EV only needs charging once or twice a week so just charge when it’s below 5p and quite often negative price.
Have a boiler and hot water tank, looking to heat water at night when the electricity is more affordable than gas. Will get a smart immersion heater for the hot water for that. Cheers
octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/ it’s probably not for EV or Solar/Battery owners but still good to see it
I am on Agile and have storage heaters - great when there are periods of cheap or negative pricing!
Octopus have removed the timing restrictions so I can switch them on manually at any time 😃
Wonder why Cosy is only available to heat pump users when the time periods would be well suited to storage radiators.. not a lot of difference in the off-peak rates 🤔
@ there’s snug and cosy, kind of confusing naming they’ve gone for. They’ll have octopus comfy out next 🤣
yep their naming person is ona theme :-)
@@Paulruk As opposed to Octopus Freezing for rhe standard fixed tariff.
What annoys me about these tarrifs is how they insist you can only have this tarrif if you have x y and z installed in your house. What I have installed in my house is none of their business. They should provide cheap electricity between x - y hours and I should be able to use that for whatever I want! If I want to heat my fish pond using cheap electric during the night, so be it!
Hi Chris, , thanks for sharing your thoughts-I can see where you're coming from! It’s true that some tariffs, especially the newer smart ones, have specific requirements like a smart meter or certain technologies installed. The reason for this is that companies offer lower prices in exchange for something valuable: data on how and when energy is used. This data helps them balance the grid more efficiently and reduce costs overall.
That said, it’s important to note that even with a smart tariff, they don’t have any insight into what you’re using the energy for unless you explicitly grant them access. So, whether it’s heating a fish pond or charging an EV, the choice of how you use your energy during the cheap hours is entirely yours!
If you’re looking for a simple low-cost option without needing a smart meter or specific installations, Economy 7 from Octopus is a great alternative. It provides cheaper electricity during off-peak hours and is available regardless of your setup.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
It’s a carrot. Solar panels, EVs, home batteries and ASHPs can help balance the grid and/or reduce emissions. If you just got cheap energy with no strings attached, would you be more or less likely to invest in the technology?
@@JonathanTracey hi thanks for the reply. I can see why they need you to have a smart meter, I have one myself but beyond that there should be no requirement to have solar, an EV, batteries etc. Especially when they then insist on "MCS" certification before they'll offer you certain tariffs. If you're on a smart meter EVERYONE should get cheap energy during those night time hours by default. You shouldn't need to be on a special tariff.
When you have cheap off peak hours you pay more for standard hours so you only benefit if you use substantially more in the off peak period. It sounds like you want cheaper off peak hours that give you a higher overall bill. Not many people would be interested in that which is probably why its not offered.
I completely agree with this surely its down to the customer what works best for them what does it matter what you own. Plus what happens when you don't have the thing they say you need do you lose the tariff if you upgrade the storage heaters?
Smart tarrif great if smart meter working l am on 3rd and still not working properly. If smart meter not working they state have revert to standard tarrif. They won’t estimate use
Hopefully sorted soon
Yeah, I can imagine it’s a little annoying that something that is outside of your control is stopping you from saving money. Do you know what the issue with the smart meter is? They seem to rely upon mobile phone networks and in areas where the coverage is poor or non existent you’re kind of stuck. You would think in this day and age there would be a way to allow a smart meter to send its data over your wifi.
@@JonathanTracey I am in Scotland and they use radio frequency. My neighbour got a cellular meter but they octopus won’t give me one . Still pressing them
Hopefully new meters can work on wifi in future.
. The ombudsman man will not help with smart meters . It’s frustrating as I am all electric.
I don’t know if this would work for you, but I was struggling to get them to install a gas meter. So I changed providers for gas as part of being enrolled with a new provider all of a sudden the gas meter got installed. I don’t switch back to octopus three months later.
@ I might try that
4:18 knew there would be a catch (or maybe not, not an official video), Octopus trying to run your life with apps? Mobile comms companies were trying the same in the early 2000's, trying to add services to data provision. Are the storage heaters on a HCALCS circuit? Sounds like it, but a funny type if not with Zigbee SE. Broken SMETS2, if you need a special Octopus meter?
i’m afraid that’s the world we live in today, data collection is more valuable than the product sometimes.
At what point do you get to the point of the video?
I remember a time before private companies charging what they like for gas, leccy... State owned in uk.... Good times with really cheap bills... The good old days before thatcher started this system 😢🇬🇧
I never found them particularly cheap, but the good factor was that the profits did not go to some offshore business account. The problem was that the treasury kept dipping it fingers in the till.
@user-bz9cb8bp2y Ah, the nostalgia for the days when our biggest energy concern was whether the kettle would boil before "Coronation Street" started. But let's not forget, blaming Mrs. Thatcher for today's energy prices is like blaming the Romans for London's traffic jams-time moves on, and so do the complexities of our utilities!
After all, if we keep pointing fingers at the past, we might miss the chance to find current solutions.
As the saying goes, "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
@ Jonathan, yes time moves on and our bills have marched forward at an uncomfortable pace... Time to get rid of middle men and go back to state control.. That's the trouble with the older folk... We remember how it was and can recognise how bad it is now you might not like the truth... But you do have an agenda to protect.. And a lot of money to buy the toys that fit into your ideal world... For the rest of us... It's the daily fight just to keep warm... ❤️🇬🇧
I’m also cold enough to remember state controlled businesses, I think you may be remembering the past through Rose tinted glasses. No, I’m not saying today’s versions are any better but I’m not sure I want to go back to the days of one energy supplier with no choice And run by incompetent bureaucrats. I’d like to know what agenda you are referring to as I’m pretty sure I’m not subscribed to any agenda and if I don’t know what the age agenda is how am I supposed to protect it?
@jonathan...the reality of looking through young eyes to the reality of affordable energy with 1 state controlled market, unlike the many options of many companies who buy at cost and we get to pay though the nose (keeping shareholders happy).. We could go on for hours over this mate... You are financially in a better place and that's OK... Spare a thought for the rest of us with no choice but to get screwed for gas, leccy.... Leaves a very bitter taste.. Which never goes 👍❤️🇬🇧
Pity these tariffs are not available in France.
so you not have smart tariffs in France?
@@JonathanTraceynot yet 😢😢😢😢 but Octopus does have a presence in France but they’re only offering fixed price tariffs at present (or at least when I last looked)
probably difficult to compete with the state owned provider
@@JonathanTracey I have cheap rate 2330 - 0730 (10c) and all weekend, but no 'smart tariffs'. I have a FIT for my solar excess of 25c.
@@antwnpowellInterested to know which provider you are with? I would like to put panels on the roof but I didn’t think the French export tariffs were that attractive. I have a 3 phase supply so could probably have a decent export rate. We have a Linky smart meter which has heure plein and heure creuse rates. It might be difficult to get a second solar system approved by the ‘financial controller’ as we’ve already spent £24k on a system on our Uk house 🤓
Re-inventing economy seven.
it’s still alive and kicking
@ I need to bite the bullet and get a smart meter so I can get agile octopus.
If it does nothing else for you, it will probably at least half your electricity bill
Why should people with air source heat pumps etc get a subsidised rate for their electricity.
firstly, they’re not getting a subsidised rate as somebody else isn’t paying the rest of their bill. What they’re getting is cheaper rate electricity. The reason they’re getting it cheaper is that the energy company has a surplus at that time, and as we don’t have the ability to store that amount of power in the grid the energy company will sell it cheaper rather than shut down the power stations. By making it available at a lower cost they encourage people to time shift their usage. This means the power stations can continue to output their power, the energy company can continue to sell it and users can continue to consume.
I doubt it is, if you look at Agile it's often very cheap, sometimes negative, and this reflects the actual cost that Octopus pays for all electric it sells at that time. Now the cheaper periods on things like Go, Cosy, Snug etc are cost averaged with these cheaper periods, some tariffs also have much more expensive periods, again this averages the cost out. Another thing these tariffs are designed to do is move the heavy loads to periods of lower demand. 16:00 to 19:00 is generally very high demand, imagine if everyone with an EV charged at that time when the majority get home from work, so they give cheaper rates overnight to encourage charging when demand is lower. It's far more complicated when you actually look into it.
from what I’ve read the cost of turning off a wind turbine for a few hours and turning it back on fire exceeds the cost of octopus of just giving away the power it generates in that period. Turning off a gas fire power station is not a simple thing to do, and requires many hours to shut down and many more hours to start back up again. With nuclear, you just can’t turn it off.
The standard flat rate price (currently around 25p) insulates the consumer from the actual wholesale price variations. At peak times (4pm to 7pm) the electricity companies might actually make a loss but they make it up during the rest of the day. The smart tariffs encourage consumers to use electricity when it is actually cheaper. For example, the Cosy 4pm to 7pm price is 35p and today the Agile price is 40p. If I imported electricity during these times I’d be subsidising those paying the standard price.
@nickbirch2123 Energy company planners have network-wide data and base tariffs to hit an average per user across hundreds of thousands of users. Some days they take a hit, some days they make a profit, but overall they have a target margin to hit and given their success, it’s likely a healthy margin.
with 4 million Smart Meters either not working at all or working incorrectly why bother?
where are you getting that information from? The reason to bother is that they give you access to smart tariffs which can save you a fortune.
Octopus leads others TRY to follow. I not sure I agree with you about your conservatory not being allowed to be on your wet system. Mine is and it works well and didn’t require planning permission.
no argument from me 👍
That requirement (a separate heating system) is one that avoids building regs along with things like proper doors between house and conservatory .
Hmm. VIC or 64? 😉
That ones a Vic 20, well spotted 😂 Keep watching my other commodore machines may make an appearance
@@JonathanTracey I had the old Vic 20, with the City Bomber game .. good days
@ Thought so! Lighter coloured case than the 64, but tricky to tell for sure with the lighting. Been playing some Commodore PET stuff the last few weeks. Some amazing stuff on that machine considering the limitations (can’t define your own graphics for example). Moved on to the Dragon for now, as due to the grey weather it is nice to see some green in your life! I like to rotate what systems I play every few weeks.
I don’t get my Commodore pet out very often as the damn thing weighs a ton :-) I am missing a dragon 32 from my collection, every time I bid on one on eBay somebody jumps in at the last minute and I end up losing it. I have just got my hands on an orc Atmos but I need to do some work on the power supply to get it going.
@ I’ve come to not trust the original power supplies., I tend to pick up newer ones from some of the more reputable retro stores. At least you know you have the right size connector and the polarity (should) be the right way round.
I do have a PET in the garage. It doesn’t work, but the weight stops the garage blowing away in winter storms. I just find emulation so much easier, though you can’t beat getting the real things out every now and then. Seem to spend more time trying to keep them working than using them!
What we really need is for the entire electricity supply industry to be taken into public ownership, the aggregated costs of generation to be averaged out and a single rate tariff applied to everyone, instead of the cheapest tariffs offered to the wealthiest..
Not if Rachel reeves gets her hands on it
i’m just about old enough to remember the days of nationalised industries, they were rubbish. Always on strike and delivering very poor quality services and hugely wasteful because there was little to no oversight. Customers had no option but to put up with it because there was nowhere else to go.
We need energy generation on buildings - solar and micro-wind. That needs to be backed up by community energy, then municipal (council owned) energy, then any shortfall made up with nationalised energy.
Just because something was run badly doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad.
I did actually look into the possibility of building a local solar farm, with all of the energy being supplied to people in the local area. You wouldn’t believe the red tape, it becomes financially unviable very quickly.
Never seen such a rude bunch of people as this lot at Octopus. They never say please or thank you in any payment. They send customers a message "Action" when asking for payment. They treat customers like dirt, typical of some rude, badly educated and greedy people in London
you see you were making a good point then went and ruined it by insulting millions of people because of a bad experience with a few dozen.
@@JonathanTraceyin four years now with Octopus we have never had a message titled “Action” asking for payment. We just get a email with our monthly energy use and billing attached. I have had numerous email and telephone conversations with Octopus staff and have always found them polite. May be it’s how I write my emails or speak to them rather than labelling all of them negatively 😮
@lynnfisher4396 my experience has been the same courteous polite people irrespective of if they are from London.