Absolutely great stuff! At first I thought, since anyways it's meant to be a follow-up tree for liberty (and I guess Honor now as well) and not an opener, that Piety is OP, but when I saw the changes to Patronage actually its quite balanced. I love how aesthetics and culture vic is a much more legit option now! Thank you to whoever did this!
+FilthyRobot Might be too late but at the start of the video your face is off the voice by about a half second, in my experience thats not too hard to edit
Personally I think the +3 science from each great work policy is a little OP. Glad honor is actually a viable option with this mod. Who would I contact to go about joining NQ? I play multiplayer exclusively and have been getting tired of quits non stop lately
+Nick Lovatsis search for thee civilization group on steam. Read the rules then pm someone with a star next to their name (admin/officer) to join the group and they will invite you
+Nick Lovatsis If you check the FAQ video on my youtube, there's a section on joining the NQ group (and there are time stamps in the description of the video, so you can jump right to that section) - th-cam.com/video/LMj7bNJmDEE/w-d-xo.html
+FilthyRobot And im curious, how can you, a person with such a big experience do often forget, or just don`t remember about some things like combining philantrophy with a religion bonus of 20 influence, about all the combinations of polices and some unique great leader bonuses. Like the Romans one with the liberty and exploration, like the Siam, Greece and Sweeden adopting patronage(and being imballanced this way!), with all the warmonger leaders and all the benefits they can get from the honor, all the ideology polices in the game reality, that can clearly benefit you, and you already should start realising this in medieval, e.t.c. I`ve only played Civ5 for a 1.5k hours, but im combining all that things in mind instanly, and that is probably the reason of all my plays being sucсessfull. Adopting to situation is all the Civ is about, thats for sure.
Thanks for the video! You mentioned that Exploration is very weak, but do you think a Honor + Exploration build could be situationally very strong for certain civs like England? They could have 1 to 2 cities initially and farm barbs to feed their culture and gold and maybe science, then begin massively taking small islands after getting the exploration perks. I am considering that because I had one single player game where one of my single-land-tile island city was just MASSIVE with the exploration perks. It had over 30+ excessive food after pop 27 and exceed my capital (which had about half land half sea tiles). Plus civs like England have the strong and high mobility navy units which makes military support to all cities (will all be coastal cities I assume) much easier.
+sleepyjohndoe I just started a pbem(play by email) as england and I thought about exploration too. Was a bit confused when he said it was the worst. I understands his points though but I wonder too if it can be really strong if u can get control of all the islands and water and simply outgrow/macro your opponents. I will report back my choices and result ;)
+sleepyjohndoe We are now in modern era and it is certainly looking good for me. Policies: 5 Liberty, 2 Piety (reformation belief so I can buy any GP), 5 Exploration. We play 4 player FFA, hellraisers Pangea map. I started by combining liberty/piety so I get decently early religion, got mosques. I had 5 cities on mainland as "core". Then I got exploration and scouted the sea, put down 4 cities on islands after a while (not much space left to take cities). I have no problem with happiness and will have maybe 30 excess happiness after the Exploration finisher. One thing that was pretty crucial I think is that I got an early oracle(since I also went piety to get religion, which turned into world religion), and I had decent culture from mosques etc. So I got my cities out before that one other guy who also went exploration, no contest on the water at all. Now I have 9 cities with public schools/factories and other desirable stuff, while my opponents have 4 or 5 cities. I work basically all the great scientist slots in all cities and is in a good spot in science. My production obviously owns the others and I could chunk out some military whenever at this point. I'm pretty new so I don't know about honor here, but tradition should be ok with this too. I just liked this idea with "wide" empire and religion.
Something from the CivBERT game, what about removing the ability for cities to shoot over mountains? Like till the mid game/castle improvement? Along with the removal of Siege units.
Any thoughts on the idea of the religious pressure of a city being tied to the number of followers in that city? Religion in general is kind of manic right now so adding yet another change would probably make balance even more difficult, but I always found it strange that like a 1 pop city has just as much pressure as a 10 pop one.
So i have an idea for the Early Siege units, although i am not sure if it can be implemented. I would either: 1) Keep the Indirect for all of them but change the damage they are doing by 50% (or xx% depending on era etc...) when attacking thanks to Indirect (meaning attacks when u actually see the units/cities with them would still do normal dmg) 2) Keep the Indirect for just Cannon and ?maybe? Trebuchet?? I mean, it would make sense that Trebuchet could attack when not actually in sight of a city... Anyway, not really sure but this would certainly balance it a lil bit more... Thanks for the video Filthy, great job as always :)
Not sure if you still respond to Civ related content, but was there ever a discussion of implementing a MMR system for multiplayer games? From most multiplayer videos of Civ that I've seen, the game tends to end when the person in 1st is in a dominating position and everyone just concedes. However, in a ranked system using MMR, this would incentivize people to fight for every single placement, instead of giving up when 1st is unattainable. Would make the game more dynamic, as there is more depth to alliances and strategy. It also corrects the quitting problem, as quitters mmr would decrease as a result.
@@FilthyRobot Interesting, thanks for the reply. Haven't played civ in years, but someone introduced me to Vox Populi which from what I've read seems to completely change the game. Curious as to whether you ever tried it out?
I don't like how they nerfed the great wall, it was a good way to stay safe if you were in the middle of the map. I think a better nerf would've been to make it obsolete when the ATTACKING civ researched dynamite.
I know I’m several years late but you could have just banned rationalism and greatly improved the variety of the game. Could have banned stealth bombers/air repair and xcom as well to go even farther. Changing the entire game like this seems very incorrect in addressing the meta issues. Once you change one factor in the game it affects everything else as well as once you open the door for anything to be changed at any time it removes the arbitrary nature of the devs game and creates an environment where everything needs tweaked and you push towards a super “samey” balance of everything. Love your videos filthy, hope you start doing guides on a game I’m into in the near future because I’ve watched your videos on repeat for years. Hope you’re well :)
Hey filthy, about the air-repair problem, how about instead of making it harder to get to, nurf air-repair it's self. Make it only heal like 15 hp instead of 30?
You said you're playing on the Steam-NQ-Group, but whenever I open the chat people only play "NO MOD" games, or is there are there different NQ-Groups?
+Jerry OK read the description in my FAQ video and you can click to the exact time stamp where I walk you through how to join the correct NQ group. th-cam.com/video/LMj7bNJmDEE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for reviewing this mod, I just downloaded it and am determined to never play a game without it again. Two of the most annoying things in this game, how bad or unfocused policy trees are, and how weak a strategy war is in the beginning, are fixed with this.
+Dictator Steve And it continues to get better! I'm super excited about the future of MP civ with this Mod. Also, if you haven't already, check out Hellblazer's map script. It makes Pangea, so, so , much better!
+FilthyRobot I just started a game with it! Also, are there any mods that you would recommend that make balance changes to the Civilizations themselves? Such as making Byzantium a little less underwhelming, and instead of removing Venice just remakes them.
I don't get the point of the Theming Bonus change. I'm pretty sure you can still trade Great Works in multiplayer, so it's not as impossible to get the bonuses as you make it sound.
What do you think about Venice getting a Unique Building replacement for the Courthouse that did something slightly different to take into account the Venice playstyle without changing it's core function?
Will anybody be able to get this mod, or is it just for NQ? Also, will you be able to make a tutorial video for the installation? Side note, imagine if the civ developers decided to make units available to hide in rough terrain so that they become invisible and spring the most amazing ambushes
+Ben Pickett Both the NQ balance mod and NQ map script (complete with comprehensive install instructions) are available for download on the right hand side of the page from: www.reddit.com/r/nqmod/ I've added that to the description of the video too!
Tradition doesn't work properly for me. I don't get walls from Oligarchy or the aqueducts as finisher. I play on version 1.0.3.279. Nevermind. The enlightenment era mod messed with the NQmod.
Doesn't the indirect fire on the siege units increase the number of available strategies? And also doesn't it equalize bad luck in starting in an indefensible area?
+The Eternal Hermit (1) No, it limits defensive options. (2) Defensive positions are very rarely a thing in the capital, it's the entire purpose of setting blocker cities - to make a defensive position.
+FilthyRobot I actually think that he gave early siege units indirect fire to add realism to the game. For example: imagine a catapult crew saying "Sorry Sir, we can't hit the massive city because there's a hill in the way" Plus this also forces defenders to fight an army *with an army*. Again to add realism.
Hey Filthy, you mentioned that ideologies haven't been changed yet. I was just wondering, do you think ideologies right now for multiplayer are fairly balanced, or like the regular social policies will need a lot of re-working?
+ZeDoctor Foreign legions are too strong, too early. Autocracy could use a non-gold purchasing strat and some of the abilities need re balancing relative to each other (for example, compare some of the t2 tenets to one another, there are a very small few that ALWAYS get picked since they are so much better).
For the Ottomans, would it be too powerful if their missionaries could spread any other religion to one of their own cities? Maybe require there to be pressure from that religion already, or lower the number of uses per missionary.
So if you gain Culture from ALL kills and not just Barbarian kills for opening honor, what's the point of playing the Aztecs? Does the culture stack or has the Civ's passive been buffed?
Yeap, i discovered it after i commented here :) gotta love the community. and i was so bored of constand leaving in multiplayer !! Also, thank you a lot FilthyR for your high quality analiysis of the game.
Tom Do Yeah, you need an up to date version with most, if not all, of the DLC. It goes on sale a lot, check out isthereanydeal.com and set it to notify you for good civ deals!
I kinda disagree with Angkor Wat, just because I find it really difficult to use efficiently, theology doesn't seem as a very useful tech if you're not planning to go universities and you're not piety (but if you're piety I'm 99% sure you won't have spare hammers to build it). Additionaly it's a very expensive wonder in terms of hammers (still) so you probably gotta be Russia/Egypt/Huns with a good start to make a use of it. Also I disagree with your opinion on indirect fire, I just don't find it that strong and your Zulu game doesn't seem like a proof because you would've won that game without crazily promoted trebuchets and they were like win more unit ("because if you're already attacking cities it means you defeated their army, which means you already won the war" - quote from your description of Statue of Zeus ;p ). And I don't find siege units all that useful in defeating armies. Of course great guide as always, waiting for more of these as well as updates of the mod from fruitstrike :)
+kuba2898 Theology is the fastest way into the medieval too. The game that really highlights indirect fire is the Ottoman game where I face Honor China (it'll be up soon!). He had a much larger army, with nastier units, but from my placement of my city and choice of terrain to defend he couldn't utilize it. If he had built 1-2 trebuchets the game would have been over nearly instantly for me and there'd have been nothing I could have done.
I feel like piety strats focused on shrine/temple beliefs is viable as a strategy, especially something like ancestor worship + feed the world + temple happiness etc. However, that being said, piety honor is probably much stronger. I pretty significantly disagree with your opinion of the ottomans. It's pretty easy for any city of yours to get at least SOME pressure (you only need to be 10 tiles of another city with religion) and the city doesn't need to actually have a religion, just some pressure. Even if you play tall, that is a free 4-8 happiness, and if you play wider, that is generally a lot more. Even if there is a dominant religion, it just takes one follower to add another happiness to each of your cities.
+calze6 For Piety, the problem is that it's too easy to take 1 point in it early for religion, then fill out another tree (like Liberty) and then come back for the reformation belief. Basically, "splashing" Piety with a full build in another tree gives more benefits than building pure Piety.
venice is only relevant when noone is seriously trying to win. U can literaly make them irrelevant by going to war killing all their trade routes early on and venice does not have the production to compete with you. later on u can just embargo venice to literally make them irrelavant
This mod actually does a great job at making civilization have a bigger diversity in strategies. I particularly hate how narrowly situational some strategies are in the single player base game, and while this mod is for Multiplayer, I see some potential to single player as well. In Deity for instance you basically can dump all policies and just take two: Tradition and Rationalism (Liberty is serviceable enough to be used until a point and Honor has only two good policies; Honor and Liberty in the base game have low happiness and (reliable) culture values, so they really are very much harder of using, forcing you to really come with very situational solutions which are not really reliable, even when you do them, you have to be a little lucky). You keep playing the catch up game and usually are able (if you had a decent start and survived) of winning either science or domination (eventually diplomacy if you have the right Civ and Greece is not in the game). And that is it. Culture is achieved through domination or a VERY STRONG start (like legendary start - or the best you've ever had - but just for you, not for the AI, in the single player game). Playing the scenarios on Deity is much more diverse and fun than the base game from this point of view because sometimes you really have to think outside of the box to solve a particular game - and this is very cool and sometimes painfull. I remember that I could make different strategies in the base game up until King, but now I just play the same manner over and over except for very little tweaks (which are honestly not related to your ability in the game). The degree of strategic diversity is basically 0 for Deity or Immortal (in lower levels you can do other strategies, but you have to compensate for that later because tradition + rationalism are stranger and you usually have to kill players doing it, which is entirely dependent on your start production wise, which basically means that if you want to do it you have to be either lucky or rerolling your start if you do not have a good expand early in the game). That is probably why NQ plays with strategic balance, but that doesn't help all Civs - which is why they are still working on that, and what I see in this video is for me great progress in the strategic diversity direction. I recognize that the biggest problem is the fact that instead of using a smarter AI to play the game they had to use a bonus for AI to play the game in a better manner - I understand the fact that it is hard to make smarter AI, but I just can't accept that the AI game is so inferior to the rest of the game. I mean, to me the AI up until King makes sense, but after that it is just incompatible with the supposed level of difficulty (when I started playing the game I really expected that the AI would in principle at least move with meele in the front and siege in the back, which let's say doesn't happen that often - and basically never on purpose). I don't think I'm asking for a human player equivalent - one intelligence that would understand and read the terrain, that produces units based on the game situation or that would place his cities considering defense and yields. Even if I love the game, I see a large improvement could be made. Besides this mod, it seems to me that the Community Balance Patch and other alterations to the game are good, even if the AI is still pretty much incompetent - or so I heard - of dealing with the patches, which is obvious. I don't think both mods are compatible, but they maybe shouldn't be, as Multiplayer is a very different beast when compared to single player. I also think indirect fire for all siege units is a stupid change. Frankly, it makes sense for artillery, and units that come before could have a probability of dealing damage if they are of a kind or of a given era or of a given player. City placement has to stay so that the game makes sense. The prophet appearence change is really welcome. I had a lot of games in which I planned playing with religion, but couldn't get the religion because of this mechanic (which meant, more often than not, that an AI could found a religion much later and still get a religion while I waited 14 turns and they found the last religion because they randomly got very lucky - their start and their bonuses played their parts, but 14 turns waiting for the Prophet is very stupid (and shouldn't be in the game - the max wait should between 6 and 8 turns, or around that, and it seems that this change does this), specially if you play a Civ based on faith with no faith generation bonus or with a patheon bonus with no faith generation, which is also a little retarded in itself, frankly, because obvious patheon choices become basically meaningless or minor enough to be altogether ignored, which is what happens in the base game). Map ruins are still a little bad in my opinion. You should at least be able of choosing what the map would reveal (which means you'd get a part of the map depending on your choice, which make zero sense from a historical perspective, but so do ruins, so I don't see a loss in anyway). It could be less than five tiles if it is like this, but this is better. Barbarian ruins could give bonus against all barbarians and/or their locations with a tile radius of the terrain and/or an additional bonus when fighting close to the revealed spawn spot - as barbarians are only relevant in the earlier game some of those changes could make this a more useful ruin.
FilthyRobot And I love the fact that it is being balanced in a way toward strategic diversity and making more options available. I think the base game is just too unbalanced for multiplayer (from Venice* to Attila is kinda ridiculous distance) or single player of higher levels (Culture Civs fair much worse than Science Civs, specially with low production starts and makes the game a basic science/domination game all of the time - so that I consider the challenge of Deity much less fun than the challenge of finding new strategies and tricks to use a mechanic or exploit the game). *It is difficult (maybe impossible) to balance Venice for the Multiplayer, but it could involve something very weird like making wars against Venice very difficult or making its defensive war game super strong - maybe a unique improvement that can allow boats to defend the city - or early offensive possible, or something like impossibility of plundering their trade routes, but I figure that IF there is a solution, it will be a weird one that could basically be very difficult of countering and could break the game, so excluding this Civ seems really better.
I used Stonhenge to insta purchase a missionary the turn after i founded a religion then took the science ref belief and noone stood a chance to slow down its spread
great video filthy, thanks. i guess ottoman tolerance is interestingly a good ua, just check your old games, you can see even your capital has other religion's followers. if you can manage to found a religion, and remove your neighbor from the game who has a religion / which is quite possible, you can do that easily / purchase a missionary of the fallen civ's religion, convert the geographically most central city in your empire, and let it affect your other cities, at least 1 follower will do it. better than ceilidh hall for me. no production spent, in average, 2 happiness per city. just encourages to go wide and take over other empires :)
+Murad Kızılay For me the problem is the ottomans two UAs are very bad. That combined with a better, but still not GREAT, UA means they're still a pretty weak civ. Compare their UA to burial tombs and you'll get a sense of its relative power.
FilthyRobot that is correct. if they had a ncie xbow replacement instead of sipahis, with this ua, ottomans might be considered a tier 1-2 civ and the absolute ruler of pre-renaissance era warfare. now they're just slightly better. sipahis are kind of a bug in single player, they can pillage amazing amount of tiles and heal in one turn, but worth NOTHING in multiplayer. this is the actual problem that nqmod should figure out about ottomans civ.
Am I think only one who thinks it is annoying that you have a webcamera. It is abit hard to concentrate and focus where the mouse is when your head moves all the time. Maybe you could have webcamera only on twitch and remove the webcamera on youtube.
About every other change is shit (around half of these cases are comprised of unwarranted changes). For a couple of examples, the following changes should have been made instead: - City of Light should be: A free Great Artist, Great Musician and Great Writer appear in the capital when you advance to the Renaissance era. - Great Wall should be: Enemy units expend all of their movement when entering the owner's territory; free Walls in the city in which it is built (increase to "in all cities" if warranted); upon discovering Dynamite, the Great Wall becomes obsolete.
I'm sure the hardcore NQ players will crucify me.... But I have to say, this mod is TERRIBLE. Social policies weren't well balanced before? Well, this cure is worse than the disease... much much worse. The new social policies are simply busted AF. And as others have noted, many of the broken, overpowered policies render civ traits completely redundant... Ugh. All in all, a VERY poorly designed mod. There are some interesting ideas, but they're lost in the ridiculous power gamer bollocks. Perhaps someone could take some of the good ideas, tone them down and work them into something that's not silly over the top? (edit) Watched the rest of the video. Many of the other changes are good. Not all, but overall the non-policy changes are ok. But I still say the social policy buffs are bloody awful.
"venice is removed"
That's a pretty good buff
The Niantic solution
"I like the small nerfs/buffs" I look down and see Venice removed from the game xD
+Kappa Sura Considering it was an instant remake of the game before, that's not a very big change at all.
Thats basically a small nerf seeing how bad venice was
Artistic Genius provides you one Kanye West in your capital.
Absolutely great stuff!
At first I thought, since anyways it's meant to be a follow-up tree for liberty (and I guess Honor now as well) and not an opener, that Piety is OP, but when I saw the changes to Patronage actually its quite balanced. I love how aesthetics and culture vic is a much more legit option now!
Thank you to whoever did this!
FINALLY! About damn time!
+spikevincent Any idea about what I can do about that? There shouldn't be a de-sync =/.
+FilthyRobot
Might be too late but at the start of the video your face is off the voice by about a half second, in my experience thats not too hard to edit
Personally I think the +3 science from each great work policy is a little OP. Glad honor is actually a viable option with this mod. Who would I contact to go about joining NQ? I play multiplayer exclusively and have been getting tired of quits non stop lately
+Nick Lovatsis search for thee civilization group on steam. Read the rules then pm someone with a star next to their name (admin/officer) to join the group and they will invite you
+Nick Lovatsis If you check the FAQ video on my youtube, there's a section on joining the NQ group (and there are time stamps in the description of the video, so you can jump right to that section) - th-cam.com/video/LMj7bNJmDEE/w-d-xo.html
YES! Thank you! I've been wanting you to make this for a long time.
omg the new liberty finisher so good. ot is additive with rome or multiplicative?
+Carlos Valenzuela Not sure - and now I'm curious!
Yeah!! :D its a pretty big deal if multiplies because is way stronger I guess is additive or is intended that way at leat
Yeah game so addictive
+FilthyRobot And im curious, how can you, a person with such a big experience do often forget, or just don`t remember about some things like combining philantrophy with a religion bonus of 20 influence, about all the combinations of polices and some unique great leader bonuses. Like the Romans one with the liberty and exploration, like the Siam, Greece and Sweeden adopting patronage(and being imballanced this way!), with all the warmonger leaders and all the benefits they can get from the honor, all the ideology polices in the game reality, that can clearly benefit you, and you already should start realising this in medieval, e.t.c.
I`ve only played Civ5 for a 1.5k hours, but im combining all that things in mind instanly, and that is probably the reason of all my plays being sucсessfull. Adopting to situation is all the Civ is about, thats for sure.
Does it affect shrines? They are needed for the grand temple, but not directly.
Been waiting for this video for a while, thanks man!
Thanks for the video! You mentioned that Exploration is very weak, but do you think a Honor + Exploration build could be situationally very strong for certain civs like England? They could have 1 to 2 cities initially and farm barbs to feed their culture and gold and maybe science, then begin massively taking small islands after getting the exploration perks. I am considering that because I had one single player game where one of my single-land-tile island city was just MASSIVE with the exploration perks. It had over 30+ excessive food after pop 27 and exceed my capital (which had about half land half sea tiles). Plus civs like England have the strong and high mobility navy units which makes military support to all cities (will all be coastal cities I assume) much easier.
+sleepyjohndoe I just started a pbem(play by email) as england and I thought about exploration too. Was a bit confused when he said it was the worst. I understands his points though but I wonder too if it can be really strong if u can get control of all the islands and water and simply outgrow/macro your opponents. I will report back my choices and result ;)
+sleepyjohndoe We are now in modern era and it is certainly looking good for me.
Policies: 5 Liberty, 2 Piety (reformation belief so I can buy any GP), 5 Exploration.
We play 4 player FFA, hellraisers Pangea map.
I started by combining liberty/piety so I get decently early religion, got mosques. I had 5 cities on mainland as "core". Then I got exploration and scouted the sea, put down 4 cities on islands after a while (not much space left to take cities). I have no problem with happiness and will have maybe 30 excess happiness after the Exploration finisher.
One thing that was pretty crucial I think is that I got an early oracle(since I also went piety to get religion, which turned into world religion), and I had decent culture from mosques etc. So I got my cities out before that one other guy who also went exploration, no contest on the water at all.
Now I have 9 cities with public schools/factories and other desirable stuff, while my opponents have 4 or 5 cities. I work basically all the great scientist slots in all cities and is in a good spot in science. My production obviously owns the others and I could chunk out some military whenever at this point.
I'm pretty new so I don't know about honor here, but tradition should be ok with this too. I just liked this idea with "wide" empire and religion.
Something from the CivBERT game, what about removing the ability for cities to shoot over mountains? Like till the mid game/castle improvement? Along with the removal of Siege units.
Any thoughts on the idea of the religious pressure of a city being tied to the number of followers in that city? Religion in general is kind of manic right now so adding yet another change would probably make balance even more difficult, but I always found it strange that like a 1 pop city has just as much pressure as a 10 pop one.
+all ice I'm not sure we want to revamp the whole religious pressure system yet. Perhaps it's something to consider in the future.
How has the feedback been on liberty off considering you get both a free person that is actually free cost as well as those building buffs
thanks so much! watching now.
So i have an idea for the Early Siege units, although i am not sure if it can be implemented. I would either:
1) Keep the Indirect for all of them but change the damage they are doing by 50% (or xx% depending on era etc...) when attacking thanks to Indirect (meaning attacks when u actually see the units/cities with them would still do normal dmg)
2) Keep the Indirect for just Cannon and ?maybe? Trebuchet?? I mean, it would make sense that Trebuchet could attack when not actually in sight of a city...
Anyway, not really sure but this would certainly balance it a lil bit more... Thanks for the video Filthy, great job as always :)
Not sure if you still respond to Civ related content, but was there ever a discussion of implementing a MMR system for multiplayer games? From most multiplayer videos of Civ that I've seen, the game tends to end when the person in 1st is in a dominating position and everyone just concedes. However, in a ranked system using MMR, this would incentivize people to fight for every single placement, instead of giving up when 1st is unattainable. Would make the game more dynamic, as there is more depth to alliances and strategy. It also corrects the quitting problem, as quitters mmr would decrease as a result.
There was such a system for awhile. It ended up with some really ugly games where people would be playing for 2nd or 3rd or 4th instead of to win.
@@FilthyRobot Interesting, thanks for the reply. Haven't played civ in years, but someone introduced me to Vox Populi which from what I've read seems to completely change the game. Curious as to whether you ever tried it out?
The new ottoman bonus sounds a lot like Indonesia's candi garden bonus.
I don't like how they nerfed the great wall, it was a good way to stay safe if you were in the middle of the map. I think a better nerf would've been to make it obsolete when the ATTACKING civ researched dynamite.
I know I’m several years late but you could have just banned rationalism and greatly improved the variety of the game. Could have banned stealth bombers/air repair and xcom as well to go even farther. Changing the entire game like this seems very incorrect in addressing the meta issues. Once you change one factor in the game it affects everything else as well as once you open the door for anything to be changed at any time it removes the arbitrary nature of the devs game and creates an environment where everything needs tweaked and you push towards a super “samey” balance of everything. Love your videos filthy, hope you start doing guides on a game I’m into in the near future because I’ve watched your videos on repeat for years. Hope you’re well :)
Conservatories are top of the line musical schools. So yes, it makes sense lol
Excited to try the NQ group and the mod. I posted to Easy's profile for invite. Is that best way to join?
How do I download the mod?
thank u filthy now i get the Nq games that i went WTF ! in the past :D
Hey filthy, about the air-repair problem, how about instead of making it harder to get to, nurf air-repair it's self. Make it only heal like 15 hp instead of 30?
You said you're playing on the Steam-NQ-Group, but whenever I open the chat people only play "NO MOD" games, or is there are there different NQ-Groups?
+Jerry OK read the description in my FAQ video and you can click to the exact time stamp where I walk you through how to join the correct NQ group. th-cam.com/video/LMj7bNJmDEE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for reviewing this mod, I just downloaded it and am determined to never play a game without it again. Two of the most annoying things in this game, how bad or unfocused policy trees are, and how weak a strategy war is in the beginning, are fixed with this.
+Dictator Steve And it continues to get better! I'm super excited about the future of MP civ with this Mod. Also, if you haven't already, check out Hellblazer's map script. It makes Pangea, so, so , much better!
+FilthyRobot I just started a game with it! Also, are there any mods that you would recommend that make balance changes to the Civilizations themselves? Such as making Byzantium a little less underwhelming, and instead of removing Venice just remakes them.
Dictator Steve
I play predominately MP and besides the EUI interface mod, I only use the NQ balance mod.
I don't get the point of the Theming Bonus change. I'm pretty sure you can still trade Great Works in multiplayer, so it's not as impossible to get the bonuses as you make it sound.
What do you think about Venice getting a Unique Building replacement for the Courthouse that did something slightly different to take into account the Venice playstyle without changing it's core function?
+TheRealDeadRock Probably still unplayable. It's very hard to keep up in science with Venice.
Will anybody be able to get this mod, or is it just for NQ?
Also, will you be able to make a tutorial video for the installation?
Side note, imagine if the civ developers decided to make units available to hide in rough terrain so that they become invisible and spring the most amazing ambushes
+Ben Pickett
Both the NQ balance mod and NQ map script (complete with comprehensive install instructions) are available for download on the right hand side of the page from: www.reddit.com/r/nqmod/
I've added that to the description of the video too!
I LOVE YOU I'M SO HYPED, This mod. Looks. Amazing
Ben Pickett
It IS amazing!
Yeah i've downloaded it, i'm gonna play it soon too with about 6 friends i play with
I'm assuming they keep all the updates on that one page?
Do you have a tier list for the NQ mod? from this video seem that civs might have moved quite a bit from the base game's tier list.
+draikmage Not yet
Think I´ll install that, sounds nice. Is it viable for SP?
Tradition doesn't work properly for me. I don't get walls from Oligarchy or the aqueducts as finisher. I play on version 1.0.3.279.
Nevermind. The enlightenment era mod messed with the NQmod.
Doesn't the indirect fire on the siege units increase the number of available strategies? And also doesn't it equalize bad luck in starting in an indefensible area?
+The Eternal Hermit (1) No, it limits defensive options. (2) Defensive positions are very rarely a thing in the capital, it's the entire purpose of setting blocker cities - to make a defensive position.
+FilthyRobot I actually think that he gave early siege units indirect fire to add realism to the game. For example: imagine a catapult crew saying "Sorry Sir, we can't hit the massive city because there's a hill in the way"
Plus this also forces defenders to fight an army *with an army*. Again to add realism.
Hey Filthy, you mentioned that ideologies haven't been changed yet. I was just wondering, do you think ideologies right now for multiplayer are fairly balanced, or like the regular social policies will need a lot of re-working?
+ZeDoctor Foreign legions are too strong, too early. Autocracy could use a non-gold purchasing strat and some of the abilities need re balancing relative to each other (for example, compare some of the t2 tenets to one another, there are a very small few that ALWAYS get picked since they are so much better).
How can I install this mod on mac?
Can this mod be used for singleplayer to like against ai coz i would like to learn everything 1st before jumping into multiplayer
+Scott Fordham yep
FilthyRobot ahh brilliant although i imagine ai deity tactics will differ alot compared to players
Hi.. is there any way to make the icons for units smaller?
+Toilet Guppy I'm sure that's moddable, but I don't think there is a default setting for it.
Single Player (Alpha) version? :O Yes pls!
Also a great, informative video. As always :)
*_Venice - removed from the game_*
been waiting for this
hey it will be really nice if you could make a video about workers, tech tree, spyes and great persons
from a fan
Can you play single player with the NQ balance mod? Or would the AI not know how to play it?
+Harry Plott You can. I hear the AI takes advantage of the new SPs quite well!
For the Ottomans, would it be too powerful if their missionaries could spread any other religion to one of their own cities? Maybe require there to be pressure from that religion already, or lower the number of uses per missionary.
I don't think they touched the ideologies much. Yet. ... the way you said that was so creepy. I think he just turned into a serial killler.
Looks awesome, do you just use the steam workshop tool
So if you gain Culture from ALL kills and not just Barbarian kills for opening honor, what's the point of playing the Aztecs? Does the culture stack or has the Civ's passive been buffed?
Probably stacks. Did w/ Aztec and honour, don't see why not now.
YES! YES! Finally.
Ive been thinking, would this be a good mod in single player?
+Tyler Try it and tell me! It works for SP
I've been playing with it on single player and its fun for me, but havent gotten to late game quite yet.
+Tyler religion goes rediculously quick and certain civs who go honor can cause problem on Emporer (I normally played immortal).
Oh man, your voice is desynced from your facecam by like a quarter of a second and it's making me question my senses. Fascinating mod though.
Can you use this in single ?
+NocturnalArrow Yep
Why isn't this a thing in steam workshop? (yes i bought it in steam)
+Asteris Sem It's not on steam workshop. Just follow the link in the description of the video.
Yeap, i discovered it after i commented here :)
gotta love the community. and i was so bored of constand leaving in multiplayer !!
Also, thank you a lot FilthyR for your high quality analiysis of the game.
LOL HOW DID YOU FORGET EDUCATION
what is the name of the UI mod?
+Simonas Lukošius Check my FAQ video for a list of all the mods I use and where to find them
Tom Do
Yeah, you need an up to date version with most, if not all, of the DLC. It goes on sale a lot, check out isthereanydeal.com and set it to notify you for good civ deals!
+Tom Do 1) Yes. 2) Free 3) Digital keys, so downloads
+Tom Do I suggest you to check out g2a , I bought civ v with all dlcs for 15 euros. They got pretty good deals.
I kinda disagree with Angkor Wat, just because I find it really difficult to use efficiently, theology doesn't seem as a very useful tech if you're not planning to go universities and you're not piety (but if you're piety I'm 99% sure you won't have spare hammers to build it). Additionaly it's a very expensive wonder in terms of hammers (still) so you probably gotta be Russia/Egypt/Huns with a good start to make a use of it.
Also I disagree with your opinion on indirect fire, I just don't find it that strong and your Zulu game doesn't seem like a proof because you would've won that game without crazily promoted trebuchets and they were like win more unit ("because if you're already attacking cities it means you defeated their army, which means you already won the war" - quote from your description of Statue of Zeus ;p ). And I don't find siege units all that useful in defeating armies.
Of course great guide as always, waiting for more of these as well as updates of the mod from fruitstrike :)
+kuba2898 Theology is the fastest way into the medieval too. The game that really highlights indirect fire is the Ottoman game where I face Honor China (it'll be up soon!). He had a much larger army, with nastier units, but from my placement of my city and choice of terrain to defend he couldn't utilize it. If he had built 1-2 trebuchets the game would have been over nearly instantly for me and there'd have been nothing I could have done.
I feel like piety strats focused on shrine/temple beliefs is viable as a strategy, especially something like ancestor worship + feed the world + temple happiness etc. However, that being said, piety honor is probably much stronger. I pretty significantly disagree with your opinion of the ottomans. It's pretty easy for any city of yours to get at least SOME pressure (you only need to be 10 tiles of another city with religion) and the city doesn't need to actually have a religion, just some pressure. Even if you play tall, that is a free 4-8 happiness, and if you play wider, that is generally a lot more. Even if there is a dominant religion, it just takes one follower to add another happiness to each of your cities.
+calze6 For Piety, the problem is that it's too easy to take 1 point in it early for religion, then fill out another tree (like Liberty) and then come back for the reformation belief. Basically, "splashing" Piety with a full build in another tree gives more benefits than building pure Piety.
I love this mod and I play it on singleplayer as well. :P
why does everyone hate Venice so much? ive had some good games as them in multiplayer?
venice is only relevant when noone is seriously trying to win. U can literaly make them irrelevant by going to war killing all their trade routes early on and venice does not have the production to compete with you. later on u can just embargo venice to literally make them irrelavant
Hey Filthy. Do you mind linking the game where you abused the Stonehenge?
+Zweistein001 Don't think it is up yet, that patch for the mod is very recent.
This mod actually does a great job at making civilization have a bigger diversity in strategies. I particularly hate how narrowly situational some strategies are in the single player base game, and while this mod is for Multiplayer, I see some potential to single player as well.
In Deity for instance you basically can dump all policies and just take two: Tradition and Rationalism (Liberty is serviceable enough to be used until a point and Honor has only two good policies; Honor and Liberty in the base game have low happiness and (reliable) culture values, so they really are very much harder of using, forcing you to really come with very situational solutions which are not really reliable, even when you do them, you have to be a little lucky). You keep playing the catch up game and usually are able (if you had a decent start and survived) of winning either science or domination (eventually diplomacy if you have the right Civ and Greece is not in the game). And that is it. Culture is achieved through domination or a VERY STRONG start (like legendary start - or the best you've ever had - but just for you, not for the AI, in the single player game). Playing the scenarios on Deity is much more diverse and fun than the base game from this point of view because sometimes you really have to think outside of the box to solve a particular game - and this is very cool and sometimes painfull.
I remember that I could make different strategies in the base game up until King, but now I just play the same manner over and over except for very little tweaks (which are honestly not related to your ability in the game). The degree of strategic diversity is basically 0 for Deity or Immortal (in lower levels you can do other strategies, but you have to compensate for that later because tradition + rationalism are stranger and you usually have to kill players doing it, which is entirely dependent on your start production wise, which basically means that if you want to do it you have to be either lucky or rerolling your start if you do not have a good expand early in the game). That is probably why NQ plays with strategic balance, but that doesn't help all Civs - which is why they are still working on that, and what I see in this video is for me great progress in the strategic diversity direction.
I recognize that the biggest problem is the fact that instead of using a smarter AI to play the game they had to use a bonus for AI to play the game in a better manner - I understand the fact that it is hard to make smarter AI, but I just can't accept that the AI game is so inferior to the rest of the game. I mean, to me the AI up until King makes sense, but after that it is just incompatible with the supposed level of difficulty (when I started playing the game I really expected that the AI would in principle at least move with meele in the front and siege in the back, which let's say doesn't happen that often - and basically never on purpose). I don't think I'm asking for a human player equivalent - one intelligence that would understand and read the terrain, that produces units based on the game situation or that would place his cities considering defense and yields.
Even if I love the game, I see a large improvement could be made.
Besides this mod, it seems to me that the Community Balance Patch and other alterations to the game are good, even if the AI is still pretty much incompetent - or so I heard - of dealing with the patches, which is obvious. I don't think both mods are compatible, but they maybe shouldn't be, as Multiplayer is a very different beast when compared to single player.
I also think indirect fire for all siege units is a stupid change. Frankly, it makes sense for artillery, and units that come before could have a probability of dealing damage if they are of a kind or of a given era or of a given player. City placement has to stay so that the game makes sense.
The prophet appearence change is really welcome. I had a lot of games in which I planned playing with religion, but couldn't get the religion because of this mechanic (which meant, more often than not, that an AI could found a religion much later and still get a religion while I waited 14 turns and they found the last religion because they randomly got very lucky - their start and their bonuses played their parts, but 14 turns waiting for the Prophet is very stupid (and shouldn't be in the game - the max wait should between 6 and 8 turns, or around that, and it seems that this change does this), specially if you play a Civ based on faith with no faith generation bonus or with a patheon bonus with no faith generation, which is also a little retarded in itself, frankly, because obvious patheon choices become basically meaningless or minor enough to be altogether ignored, which is what happens in the base game).
Map ruins are still a little bad in my opinion. You should at least be able of choosing what the map would reveal (which means you'd get a part of the map depending on your choice, which make zero sense from a historical perspective, but so do ruins, so I don't see a loss in anyway). It could be less than five tiles if it is like this, but this is better.
Barbarian ruins could give bonus against all barbarians and/or their locations with a tile radius of the terrain and/or an additional bonus when fighting close to the revealed spawn spot - as barbarians are only relevant in the earlier game some of those changes could make this a more useful ruin.
+VeteranVandal Yeah, it's a great mod and is made better by the fact that it's being perpetually updated with lots of feedback from the MP community.
FilthyRobot
And I love the fact that it is being balanced in a way toward strategic diversity and making more options available. I think the base game is just too unbalanced for multiplayer (from Venice* to Attila is kinda ridiculous distance) or single player of higher levels (Culture Civs fair much worse than Science Civs, specially with low production starts and makes the game a basic science/domination game all of the time - so that I consider the challenge of Deity much less fun than the challenge of finding new strategies and tricks to use a mechanic or exploit the game).
*It is difficult (maybe impossible) to balance Venice for the Multiplayer, but it could involve something very weird like making wars against Venice very difficult or making its defensive war game super strong - maybe a unique improvement that can allow boats to defend the city - or early offensive possible, or something like impossibility of plundering their trade routes, but I figure that IF there is a solution, it will be a weird one that could basically be very difficult of countering and could break the game, so excluding this Civ seems really better.
Thanks Filthy :)
I used Stonhenge to insta purchase a missionary the turn after i founded a religion then took the science ref belief and noone stood a chance to slow down its spread
great video filthy, thanks.
i guess ottoman tolerance is interestingly a good ua, just check your old games, you can see even your capital has other religion's followers. if you can manage to found a religion, and remove your neighbor from the game who has a religion / which is quite possible, you can do that easily / purchase a missionary of the fallen civ's religion, convert the geographically most central city in your empire, and let it affect your other cities, at least 1 follower will do it.
better than ceilidh hall for me. no production spent, in average, 2 happiness per city. just encourages to go wide and take over other empires :)
+Murad Kızılay For me the problem is the ottomans two UAs are very bad. That combined with a better, but still not GREAT, UA means they're still a pretty weak civ. Compare their UA to burial tombs and you'll get a sense of its relative power.
FilthyRobot that is correct. if they had a ncie xbow replacement instead of sipahis, with this ua, ottomans might be considered a tier 1-2 civ and the absolute ruler of pre-renaissance era warfare. now they're just slightly better.
sipahis are kind of a bug in single player, they can pillage amazing amount of tiles and heal in one turn, but worth NOTHING in multiplayer. this is the actual problem that nqmod should figure out about ottomans civ.
Am I think only one who thinks it is annoying that you have a webcamera.
It is abit hard to concentrate and focus where the mouse is when your head moves all the time.
Maybe you could have webcamera only on twitch and remove the webcamera on youtube.
1:08:28
No longer grant Faith on meeting RELIGION
dobre
liberty is way too op now. they need to buff tradition.
About every other change is shit (around half of these cases are comprised of unwarranted changes). For a couple of examples, the following changes should have been made instead:
-
City of Light should be: A free Great Artist, Great Musician and Great Writer appear in the capital when you advance to the Renaissance era.
-
Great Wall should be: Enemy units expend all of their movement when entering the owner's territory; free Walls in the city in which it is built (increase to "in all cities" if warranted); upon discovering Dynamite, the Great Wall becomes obsolete.
hyoo-nik? Its hunn-ick
And yes i agree the indirect fire siege weapon change needs to be changed
ni
I'm sure the hardcore NQ players will crucify me.... But I have to say, this mod is TERRIBLE.
Social policies weren't well balanced before? Well, this cure is worse than the disease... much much worse. The new social policies are simply busted AF. And as others have noted, many of the broken, overpowered policies render civ traits completely redundant... Ugh.
All in all, a VERY poorly designed mod. There are some interesting ideas, but they're lost in the ridiculous power gamer bollocks. Perhaps someone could take some of the good ideas, tone them down and work them into something that's not silly over the top?
(edit) Watched the rest of the video. Many of the other changes are good. Not all, but overall the non-policy changes are ok. But I still say the social policy buffs are bloody awful.
Hissssss
+Herpa Derp Is that a positive or negative comment?
+FilthyRobot it's a meme, arguably a garbage one.
Herpa Derp you're not funny
+FilthyRobot Long live the reptilian brotherhood! (and thnx for your awesome guides)
+Herpa Derp just go away
Nice vid m8 i r8 8/8
comprehensive install instructions my ass
It's pretty fucking clear: docs.google.com/document/d/1me025Vepd3qXN5QqQtqakPUuSfQmk8D5Jv15SZp9ly8/edit
FilthyRobot just finding the fucking file dumbass
Oh I see, you weren't able to read the description of the video you posted to complain in.
FilthyRobot where do you think i got comprehensive install instructions from? hmmmmmmmm??????
Gerd Nation
So which is it genius? You weren't able to find it or you weren't able to follow the simple instructions?