This Gibson J-200 Is Suspicious
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- This is my story of debunking a weirdo, hoarder on craigslist claiming to have a J200.
He really had a Gibson J-150.
Which is pretty much a little nicer than a Gibson J-200 Standard.
But they didn't make that in 2001.
Watch the video :p
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I worked for Gibson Montana twice, 10 years apart. While the differences between the J-150 and J-200 are mostly cosmetic, the cost difference is in the woods used. The J-200 specs called for AAA-grade Sitka Spruce top and AAA-grade Maple body. The wood is graded for it's sonic qualities, not its appearance. The AAA Mable is often plainer-looking than AA Maple, but usually has some mile flame. The wood itself is usually harder and has a more pronounced ringing tone when struck, which makes for a louder, brighter-sounding guitar.
The J-150 specs called for AA-grade woods, the same grade used on all the other Gibsons except for the Dove, which was also an AAA-grade spec.
There are other cosmetic differences between the two. By 2002, when I returned to the factory, the J-150 inlays were pearloid instead of genuine mother of pearl. The 150's bridge also has only 2 big bar inlays on the bridge, which are real pearl, instead of the 4 on the J-200.
Binding the peghead is very time consuming. Factory labor is the most expensive part of guitar manufacture.
According to the sales manager of that time, the 150 was made to offer a cheaper J-200 to the small Gibson dealers who didn't like to risk flooring Gibson's most expensive guitar. At that time, the J-100 was intended to be the working man's version of the J-200, but because it was much plainer in looks, the buyers wanted a model that resembled a J-200 more closely, and the J-100 never sold as well as the J-150.
But neither matched the sales of the J-200.
The essential thing about the J-200 was, from the very first, it was made for eye appeal over sound appeal. The 200 was the singer's guitar, not the lead player in the band's guitar. The first ones, introduced in the 1930s, were all custom-made for movie singing cowboys. Country singers took them over later, as did Rock singers like Elvis and Buddy Holly. As time went by, the J-200's acoustic qualities were only a whisper of those made in the 1930s, when the cowboy stars needed a powerful-sounding guitar for their live shows. The 200 got the Tuna-A-Matic bridge from the Gibson electrics, so they had very easy action.
But the hand work on them was always extremely high. The mustache bridge took a lot of careful time to make, mostly by hand, along with the hand-engraved pick guard. Those 2 pieces added substantial factory cost to them all. And they were the 2 most distinguishing things that made them so visually appealing.
Back in the 1930s, the buyers expected to pay for that hand work. Gibson marketed the J-200 as the King of the Flat Tops, and as such, was Gibson's most expensive flat top.
The same things made the Dove so expensive, but it was a smaller dreadnought guitar, made to compete with Martin and the others. When Country singers began using dreadnoughts more and more, the Dove was Gibson's answer to the Martin D-45 and Guild D-55.
I always thought the 150 was a model with no real market. The J-100 did sell well when it was a very plain guitar, but the management always tended to make the 100 a bit fancier, and then when the 150 sales would drop, the 100 would become plainer again.
The Montana shop finally returned all the sonic potential the big jumbo body had to the entire line. The J-200s made from the 1930s to the mid 1950s were all powerfully loud, with a crisp bright sound that still had a lot of bass, and were excellent rhythm guitars.
They never appealed to the wide market as a player's instrument; they remained a singer's guitar, and were a sign of a singer's success.
When a singer wanted the real deal, that's what they saved up to buy. At the same time, there were always fewer singers who desired a plainer-looking big guitar, and that was the J-100.
The player's Jumbo was always the smaller 16" J-185 and the black J-180, the Everly Brother's model. The 180 was specifically designed for a singer's guitar with very even tone that has a lot of sustain along with unique visual appeal.
Of them all, only the J-200 has remained in continuous production since it was introduced. It's still Gibson's most popular custom-made model when price is no object.
In many ways, the Gibson SJ-200 set the standard for what an American-made fancy acoustic flat top guitar was supposed to be in the minds of guitar players around the world. The "S" is for Southern; it shows where Gibson aimed at the market for them originally.
Very valuable post from someone in-the-know. 🙏
Amazing information. Thanks so much. 👏
Brilliant, thank you. This is literally all the information I was looking for in one comment.
Great info. You should make a channel!
I've always wanted a J200, but all of a sudden, I "need a J150"! Wahi Valleys
Badass guitar bro, although I did wince up a bit when you were doing the wrist smack with the beads hitting the bridge and top so hard 🤣
Thats normal, I tend to hit shit against my guitars, I've tried to be better about it lol, it's gotta be heartbreaking! Lol
In few words you have < almost > stolen him because he was in need..GREAT!
Yeah, right? Seems like a d-bag move.
I found a 2003 J100 XTRA. Same deal. Flamy maple, killer sound, no neck binding. I’ll never sell it
Thats what im talking bout!
As you shouldn't
Thanks for the vid, though I must say my dude you're gonna munt the internal bracing slamming that bracelet on the top!
Oh. I know, I've watched these videos and winced. I've laid back on the mewlery. When I record I don't wear anything
That looks absolutely gorgeous. At 1100 that is an absolute steal.
It's such an amazing guitar and better than any of the j200s I've ever owned
Question how much would you pay for a used 2011 SJ200 Custom Elite with a couple small blemishes, one near the rear of the pick guard and the other on top of S/N? Thanks bro
What I'd pay and what it's worth are two very separate things. It's a super cool guitar, but the question becomes do you want it for its beauty, its sound, its potential value, just because? All different motivators.
First off, if you have watched this channel, you know my feelings on abalone, so anytime I see gibson use abalone in lieu of MOP, especially for the crown inlays, my pants get a little tighter.
Price wise they're like 5k, if you can get it for 3500 or less you're winning. Guitars have blemishes. Rich lawyers still play like shit, too, sometimes. I wouldn't get into it more, but if it's something that's calling you let the universe decide what's best for you. At the end of the day if it makes you happy and inspires you to make music, that's the point. So what's that worth to you?
What are they actually asking, equip me w more knowledge?
Noel Gallagher plays a J-150...They are awesome guitars. And you are right, a nice back are hard to come by, though for Gibson they reserve them for natural guitars.
I feel like there is no rhyme or reason, I see some super expensive ones with not much of a back and others with incredible backs. Talk about a guitar that's all over the spectrum
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist True. I own a 2011 ES-355 Ebony. Whole bloody thing is painted black. You can’t really see the flame, but if you look on the under side where the f hole is the maple is flamed big time. So you are right, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason, but general rule of thumb Gibson usually reserves the AAA or AAAA flamed maples for natural guitars.
@@Johnny_Doe I have heard that too and it makes sense when you look at some of their INSANE custom shop stuff, but lets be real, for a company as big and expensive as gibson, you should be getting high quality stuff thats consistent starting at minimum 3k! PRS has guitars thats cost half as much that have consistently better woof. Even companies like Kiesel, look at the tops they have on those things for short money. So it 🤯 that if you spend 5k on a new J200 it may have a barely AA top. I also have enough gibsons where I know their grading system is total horseshit. I have BB guitars that should have been AAA and AAAA guitars that are barley AA. Look even at the R9, you gotta get one for 10k to find one with a silly level flame. That's insane if you look at the actual prices of wood. So I'm convinced that Gibson keeps the prices of good wood at a premium for the market like DeBeers did with diamonds, despite them being readily available. Then they'll make some random standard someone orders into a custom shop level guitar because some builder felt like making that guys day. So I hear what you're saying but I don't think there's genuinely that much rhyme to reason on a day to day basis. Just from my personal experience of looking through 10s of 1000s of gibsons. I have an 87 es335 natural in my possession atm and it's got a little cute flame to it but nothing above AA at the most. Its going in my friends shop for 4500.
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist Gibson has their name and long tradition. Most guitarists who have been around are traditionalists. Hence why the guitar field really hasn’t changed much over the years. People keep wanting to go back to the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s and some ‘80s stuff, that they will overlook some of the quality materials you’ve mentioned just to acquire the name. Sad but true. The guitar field really has no set standard in the grading of the woods as you’ve mentioned.
@@Johnny_Doe I'm 100% with everything that you said. Thanks for your input and for watching. Stay safe 🤘🤘🙏🎸🔥
This guy dabbles
🤪
From what I understand, the J-150 is not a J-200 Standard, but a J-200 Studio version. The Standard has the bindings on the neck and head.
Did I say standard? Def meant studio. You're correct.
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist Still looks like a fine rig. I have a Custom natural from 2000 that I bought used. It is a beauty to behold.
My favorite part is how you kept smashing your wrist jewelry into the top whilst playing, lol.
Isn't it great 🤪
ahaha ... nice story ... cool discount ... eheheh... gorgeous guitar !!!!
may i ask you where did you get that customized truss rod inlay ???
thanks
greetings from Portugal
Stay Safe & Keeo Rockin
My buddy rockdog in Germany makes them!
I'm sure willing to take those guy's word! Congrats on owning the first SJ made!
That does answer why there was no decal on the peghead. The very first batch always seems to have some detail that was either left off or was inadvertently added. I saw it happen over and over; most of the time it's something small, like the missing decal.
Wili said there's no explanation why all of these models didn't have the only a Gibson is good enough...conjecture was they ran out of headstocks with it and went to older stock, but again, conjecture.
I pained for a year over it before I actually believed what it really was. Doug had to smack me in the head about it and then sent me the ledgers wili found and from carter's book where he lists all of 8074H as SJ models, which is the first it ever showed. Wild, right? I can't believe I was able to trade up for it.
Killer acoustic man!! Sounds effing sweeet!! 😳🤟🏼🔥
I need to do a proper one in ny studio and a/b it so people can really hear how it eats other guitars!!! Cheers bro
Wow dude you got a great deal on that guitar.
It's crazy
Right??? 🎸🔥
11 hundred bucks. Fine!!! ;DDD
I'm sorry I cannot understand all of your speaking since english is not my language, BUT.... Same shape, same body, same sizes, same woods than the SJ-200?
No other difference?
Just a matter of look?
Yes, the binding around the neck and headstock looks beautiful and protects a little better, but.... 1000€ more for that???
Same everything other than there is no binding on the fretboard or headstock
Yes. Gibson has made several models that look like the J-200, but differ slightly. The J-100 is the oldest; it's been around ever since the late 1940s, though it went out of production for a very long time. It was supposed to be the plainer little sister to the J-200, but it never sold well, so the fancier J-150 came, but the J-100 didn't leave when it showed up.
The J-200 has a 17" body, too big for some players, so for a while, the J-200 Jr. was made with a 16" body. Later on, an even smaller version came with a 15" body, the Emmy Lou Harris model. Throughout this long time period, the J-100 and J-150 kept changing- sometimes they looked almost identical to the J-200, and other times, not. There were other clones too, like the DeLuxe.
To add to the confusion, there were buyers for them all. So it's very hard for even an average player to know all the differences.
I know them because I sprayed every single guitar that was made when I worked there. After spraying around 6,000 guitars or more, I got to know them all by sight.
Now, Gibson is under entirely new management, so I'm pretty sure the J-150 may be gone for good, along with the Emmy Lou. and the Jr. The new J-100 has a walnut body, and while the fingerboard is bound, it has only dot inlays.
There's one thing for sure: Ever since its introduction, the J-200 became Gibsons top of the range flat top guitar. It's as American as apple pie, and recognized as such instantly, all over the world. Gibson won't ever stop making it until the factory closes for good.
I had a J-150 that looked like that. It played 100% better than any J-200 I ever saw. I had a J-200 that needed a reverse neck reset. Once it was done, then neck soon started twisting off again. Then there were Doves with bad necks. Fortunately I can no longer afford Gibsons.
I love mine so much. Thank you so much for watching. Please subscribe and join the madness if you haven't already 🤘😜🤘
I love your tenacity bro "It says J150 right the f inside" that'd be me
I pretty much did say that lol
‘My guitar shits the bed!’ How I love American expression👍👍👍
Haha, Boston in particular 😂
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist I must visit Boston one day! I enjoyed working night shifts in a bread factory near Canterbury, Kent, UK. I worked out quickly enough that you only got sworn at if they liked you. The air was blue with the worst language I ever heard. Workers were very polite to anybody they didn’t like. The insults were very imaginary!
@@stephensmith799 sounds like Boston 🤣
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist The ‘Dance of the Dying Fly’ was popular:
A long oooooooooOOOOOHHHH ARFUR! (With about eighty workers joining in) then down on the factory floor on our backs with legs and arms in the air, quivering and shaking all over as violently as we could. Boring work made fun, like the Boston Fish Market
@@stephensmith799 🤘😃🤘
That’s such a cool guitar and awesome video.
Thanks man, I did a much better one that I believe is the newest or second newest, check it out!!!! 🤘🤘
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist Sure will dude
@@cjsden7703 🤘🤘🎸🔥
I have a 2006 J200. Beautiful guitar, exceptional sound, but I did not get mine for $1,100. LOL Man you found a great deal on that one! It is a beauty! Sounds great. I don’t blame you for never selling it. I’ll never sell mine.
Some guitars are just lifers! That's one of em! Rock on! 🤘 thank you for watching. Please subscribe and join the madness. 🙌
I 've Heard j200 but your guitar sounds beautiful!!!! Warm sound!!
🎸🔥🙏
Think you have enough guitars dude!? Not that there is anything wrong with that !
Nope!
He needs more
The ID label on the inside tells you what it is.
Lol obviously
$1,100 is absolutely insane man
it really is. I didn't even realize how good of a deal that was back then. I certainly do now, especially considering the rarity of the J150 and the fact that Noel Gallagher played one
A j200 costs $6400 new. Where can I buy a J200 for less than $2000?
Probably not anywhere
That's a Gibson J-150.
Lol, yeah. Hence the name of the video
1500 for a j-200 or 150 is highway robbery by you.
I concur. I also had no idea what I was talking about when I made that deal so I won just by showing up with the money Cameron! Please subscribe and join the madness 🙌
Could it be a Chibson??hmm curious...
No, it's a j150 like it says in the video
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist Well thank goodness for that at least we know that it's the real deal and you did not get ripped off. Sadly there are others that weren't so fortunate.
@@benjaminsnow7061 that's one reason to subscribe to this channel! Knowledge is power. I have a much longer episode on this specific guitar, take a peak!
I’ve never seen a real Gibson with slab sawn sides. Makes me suspect that back is a laminate. You sure it isn’t a fake? Does it even have a serial number? I’m not an expert, but that slab sawn wood smells of something fishy.
Dude. Calm down
lol 😆 no
I need some of that booger sugar 😋lol 😆
Thats all you bro, I'm like this outta the box
haha!! Loved this..CoOl! - :)
🙏🙏🙏
Looks like a J200 studio … without a plain pickguard.
Very close, before the j200 studio was the j150 which is a j200 except without the binding on the neck. The j200 studio does not have the carved end to the fretboard
$1500????? seriously
Oh yeah!!! To be honest, I think I got it for 1150 now that I think about it. Originally I was gonna give 1500 if it were a j200 but then we found out that was all lies!
Oh my god, take off the bracelet if you're gonna palm mute, lol.
Hahaha, I stopped wearing them as much for videos. I'm with you, I don't know how slash does it with 10 rings and 1000 bracelets. I just wanted a little flare 😑
This apparently got on a lot of nerves 😂
@@tristanjensen1886 apparently!!!!
What did you smoke?
🔥😘
Nice guitar, but I think if the guy was that desperate for the money, it would mean he is poor, which would make me probably offer him the full amount, although I'm a little conflicted over the false advertising of a 150 as a 200. Regardless, I wouldn't want to take advantage of someone's poverty for my gain, but that's just me.
I didn't take advantage of his poverty for my gain, the guy had rooms of guitars and was really weird. He told me it was a 200 and it wasn't. I had never heard of a 150 and took a chance and this was before reverb, so all I did was win for showing up w money to a weird guy's house. I'm not out to profiteer off of people, but at the same time, people who need money for bills sell stuff and sometimes you get it for great deals. Hence the term "their loss is your gain." I'm not in this to break even, I collect and play guitars as a life passion and can only do so by making smart moves
I had one, hated the sound of maple
Tone is def subjective and I find these guitars are highly inconsistent in how they sound. Some are magic and some not so much
Now you just gotta find out who the real banksy is and you can join the illuminati
He and I play darts on Wednesdays
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist lol he must have a shit ton of frequent flyer miles
@@jimmysupafly1547 shhhhhh
@@TheNeuroticGuitarist the shredding of his artwork was genius. Imagine planning years in advance to bamboozle an art buyer of your owm work for miions lol. Tries to destroy it and now its worth more shredded. Genius
@@jimmysupafly1547 I did laugh my ass off
😔
😐
This joker is clueless about Gibson acoustics.
That joker is me and I have about 25 gibson acoustics and some of the best vintage examples in the world and you're commenting on my guitar channel. So there's that... 🤪
Great guitar, but nobody cares about the hoarding, the dogs, or the weird smell. This seemed really cringy to me.
This is an old video and I was just telling the story. My brand of humor is hit or miss for some people. I'd recommend videos from the last six months. There is one on this very guitar
That stuff always comes along in the hunt for vintage guitars. Good old guitars don't always end up in the hands of good people.
People are the worst!
True story
Save your profanity for OFFLINE, ok?
I haven't swore in an episode in 2 years Marcia. You're literally commenting on one of my first episodes.
Calm down . It's just a Gibson.
Calm down about what?