Honing just seem right I did dirt bikes no different really Especially the China ones oil and 400 grit tape by hand oval rotation by design the piston catches the heat and gets trashed
Great video as always Tinman. I have been using those hones for 35 years. Always does a good job. Only difference is I use soapy water for lubricant. I actually submerge the cylinder in a bucket of soapy water when I hone. Works well for me and no messy oil everywhere 👍🏼
I restore old Mercury outboards, I have been told not to hone the Mercasil bores, however I figured if you didn't get stupid with a hone they would be fine... Your video proved my point. Ordering my hones Now!! Thanks!!!
Those cylinder hones are excellent! As a truck mechanic I've overhauled many engines throughout the years and I would never put one back together without honing the cylinders with one of these tools. I have never honed a chrome cylinder so I cannot speak of that. Awesome job you are doing with the content!
I hone closed transfer port cylinders with three stone or tri hones and open transfer port cylinders with dingleberry hones or 220 sand paper if they are not to bad. The tri hone will tell you if the cylinder is round, if you have any taper near the top or something else wrong. They will also remove transfer. I use W-D 40 for lube. Great video keep the good stuff coming
Tinman, honing definitely works. I have used the ball hones I'm many different cylinders on jet ski and marine engines. I was told by a very experienced race engine builder to never use a shoe hone in a two stroke cylinder. He said they can catch on the ports, breaking the shoe and absolutely trash a cylinder. If I rebuild an engine it gets honed unless I don't have that size or am replacing the cylinder. Keep up the great work Tinman. Your knowledge and humbleness is awesome. 🤘🪓🌳
Tinman thanks for making this video- I’ve always honed after porting and have used that same brand hone for years- never once have I had issues with the plating - if plating comes off than there’s a bigger issue than the ball home running through it- and you hit the nail on the head when you mention how running the hone through cleans up the chamfers and makes the edges flow better- your best line for sure was “ if you don’t want to hone than don’t hone” it’s crazy how one guy will say not to and it’s like guys who have never tried it get all nervous like your running a jackhammer up and down the hole…. Great video man!
I use both, ball hones and three shoe hones. With the the three shoe hone you have to be a little more careful because they can take material off faster then a ball hone. But I like them better because you are working with flat plains, so if you have waffling or low spots they'll show up. Where the ball hone will cover them up.
I obviously mess with bike motors, it says it in my name. I watch you mainly cause of your attitude to the hobby. No one person is right , there's multiple ways to do things. Your a hundred percent right and that's my attitude too. If more people had this view there would be better connection and communication in our different communities. Great job.
I have used those same hones for all kind of things that need fit or just smartened up. They work great for everything especially cylinders. The finish in a cylinder can't be beat and they really do a good job on 2-cycle port edges like you said. Never had an issue with results after using them. Hey Buckin, bananas are really good for reducing muscle cramps! Have a good one everybody. Thanks Tinman, good video.
Thanks for this excellent video Tinman. Just gave me the confidence to ball hone my old 044 cylinder which came up beautifully. Get it all back to together and break it in. Most helpful!
I use the 3 stone spring loaded hones for just about every Atv I rebuild. Never had a problem with one not seating the rings.. Even on chrome/Nikisil cylinders. I once took a Nikisil cylinder for a Suzuki that needed replated and i couldn’t afford to get done so I took my 3 rock hone and honed it out to the next size piston, was a steel sleeve that was plated knocked the plating off of it and then it it back together with a new 1st oversized piston and rings. Rode that thing ram better than when I got it for over a yr sold it to a buddy and he rode the snot out of it for at least two more years before blowing it up..
Glad you covered this subject. I started playing with saws a few years ago and purchaced the same brushes you have. I've had great success cleaning up cylinders and also some failures on cylinders that were very worn. As you pointed out speed and duration are all part of the learning process. Wouldn't try chrome myself either. To thin, hard and brittle IMO. Thank's for the video!
Great content as usual. Been watching for about 6 to 8 months now. Picked up a 64 homelite xl12 in junkyard and 74 homelite super ez auto. Awesome feeling to bring back vintage saws that have not run in who knows how long. Very relaxing for me. Keeps me looking for the next great find! Stay warm up there. Best wishes from Pa.
Fantastic and spot on Tinman!!! You totally hit the ball out of the park when you say hello you aren’t honestly honing anything but you a just doing a little bit of a deglaze job to make your rings a good bore to bite and cut and seat and seal up your bore nicely!!! I absolutely do new and used or basically every single engine I build! I’m a warm water underneath my sink for the water lubrication and materials removal so it’s not really even possible to damage the bore with the water process! Yeah man it’s just like 6 rpm’s and a couple seconds of action for a nice surface break not a 9K boring project! LMFFAO
Hi Tinman. Thank you for ALL that you do to help all of us grunts work on our saws! We are all indebted to you. I was just out on the web looking for a source for the 320 grit silicon carbide flex hone for my Stihl 026 and I found a tool seller that has included an image of the Abrasive Selection page from the Brush Research catalog. It says "For deglazing Nikisil cylinders, we suggest 240 AO." So softer and courser stones than what you are using. And justgjt made the same comment about the aluminum oxide last month. Since we are only wanting to deglaze and/or crosshatch the surface the softer stone makes sense. Removing the aluminum transfer and restoring the cylinder surface rather than jumping right into a new cylinder isn't controversial to me!😁
I am going to hone my build. I bought Caber rings. I will get back to you. FYI, here in Florida, we don't have to dress like an Eskimo. Great video, I love your approach to teaching. Gotta go hone shopping.
Great vid bud. Going to hone my Minarelli cylinder. Piston melted partially in the iron jug....so last ditch effort to see if I can bring her back to life.
i used a ball hone when i put new bearings forged rods and pistons in my honda before i boosted it. worked great. i also made a sleeve guard for it out of jb weld to reinforce the sleeve havnt had an issue yet and last time i got it dynoed it made 436 wheel horsepower. its amazing how much power u can get out of a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder lol. keep it up though buddy love your videos
Great channel. I do a lot of Polaris cylinders with Nikasil coating. I ball hone but only go one direction and I hone fast to get the recommended degree. I hone till I see a matt finish. I have also used stones to true the cylinder, but found the ball hones to be easier and less likely to chip or catch. If a cylinder is to the point it needs stones to true it up, it needs to be thrown out, or bored and Nikasil reapplied.
Never used one on a small 2 stroke. YET! Only used them for chevy 350's, 454's and a hotrod honda gx200 I built for a minibike🤪 with great results! Makes perfect sense how they'll catch what one may have missed on the port chamfers👍
I use the ball hone for light clean up I use a 3 stone on beat cylinders as cylinders wear they become un round or out of square the 3 stone will actually show you how worn you cylinder is the ball hone will flex and curve with the cylinder walls they both have their purpose as for the cylinder coatings I'm not really sure to hone or not to hone I always just kinda just let my brain do its thing if i do I do if I don't I don't haven't killed anything yet I'm new to the channel and I like what I see learning alot about porting its a part of hotrodding I haven't ventured into yet got an old junk craftsman saw I'm gonna grind up and see what happens thanks for the inspiration man
I found this video quite interesting, because prior to watching this, I would never have honed a saw cylinder. I heard your comment about dry honing, and with three stone hones, what I learned long ago, was that dry honing takes off less metal than wet honing. The oil helps clear the debris from the stones, so they continue cutting much longer. My guess, is that the same thing would apply to the ball hones.
I hone motorcycle cylinders all the time , with great results. The hone can be way oversized in a smooth 4 stroke cylinder. Its got to be closer in a 2 stroke .
During my brief stint at Arctic Cat, we would ball hone cylinders at rebuild. Just a couple in-and-outs...that's all. Have to do something to get the rings to seat. I did a lot of jetting and EFI testing and so I got to seize up a number of engines on purpose. Well, I'd lean out jetting and monitor detonation. If careful I'd catch it just before locking up the motor. I think a lot of times we'd just douse the ball hone in WD40 when honing.
GREAT video Tinmsn!!!!! Been looking at these for years to do exactly what your doing but never been brave enough to try. I’ve heard the good and bad about them but watching your video sold me!!! You results are proof…. Very impressed with your results and how the cylinder looks afterwards. Thanks so much for showing this and your use system!!! Doctor Tinman THANK YOU for all you share!!!!
Love the video. I am interested in getting a ball hone. I used the regular 3 leg hones. To not so great success. this is a better solution. After honing try cleaning the cilinder wall with ATF transmission fluid. Don't ask me why. But it works really well for getting all the honing particulets out of the cross hatching . Have a nice day
I was given an Echo Pb500T back pack blower with a blown cylinder, piston and ring. I honed the cylinder, sanded the piston and carefully separated the ring. put it all back together and have been using it for a month now.
I'm working on the same blower. Regular gas was run in it. I'm thinking I'll replace the piston, but I sanded the cylinder transfer. But I could only find a 240grit. Do you think I'll be okay with that grit?
I was always afraid to do that, but I think after this video I'll try! I usually use a tool for the drill (I think it's called scotch Brite flap wheel ) which has layers of fine sandpaper and scotch Brite in between the layers and the finish is amazing! The only downside is that it can be used one way so I have to modify it in order to use is both ways!
Tinman you are right that there is no clear size label on their packaging. If you look on the back, however, towards the bottom is a sticker. The top line of the stick has the size, grit and material. This keeps their packaging costs down, but it is a bit confusing. Thanks for the great content.
Honing was part of my job and I wouldn't think twice about using a flexihone on those cylinders, I used to hone various jobs to size and instead of changing to finer stones to get the required finish I used to wrap abrasive paper or scotchbrite around the stones.
If you are going through all the trouble to port a cylinder a good de-glaze is a very important step. A very glazed cylinder is not going to run any where near as good as a good cross hatching. You will notice the difference, especially if you want to run the engine for long periods of time. A glazed cylinder will be weird when it gets hot because the oil has nowhere to live. I have even been known to crosshatch a piston now and then with some 220 or 320 grit wet dry sandpaper 😉 anything to get the oil a place to be.
I use the same brand hones that your using and do the exact same with a low speed cordless drill and I have had great luck! Great job Tinman ! Keep up the great videos!
Hold on pause, its after work and you wanted to come hang out with us...and teach us. Such a good man buddy, after work I like to too but...just from my chair generally. Good loyal friend there tinman, love ya brother
Run a ridged soft stone to check your bore and plating. Soft stone wont cut NiCom. I like the video! Harbor freight micrometer and telescoping gauges would be fine.
I made my own tool for the job . deep socket wrapped with 3k grit wetdry sand paper & then buttered up with the 3k/350grit diamond paste . I have a video on my channel of the stihl cylinder I’m taking about specifically. I used 100% muriatic acid before I did anything too . A tip for the acid is to stuff the cylinder with toilet paper then soak it with acid but not dripping all over the place . The idea is to make sure the acid stays in the cylinder by sticking to the nikasil coated walls ONLY via soaked acid toilet paper
*Mineral oil for break in. Semi synthetic at worst. NOT full synthetic. Also, try be mindful about the 'in/out' movement speed you are going to use to achieve the optimal cross hatch angle. This guy makes it look easier than it is, if you have never attempted it before. Make sure you set up your work area so you are in the absolute best position possible to control the drill movements to keep everything nice and square & consistent. That way, being the first ever attempt, it will either go perfectly as planed, or at least allow you to smoothly and accurately respond to anything that is unexpected.
HAHA BBR ! As a fabricator/sign maker, mechanic, 30 year + I know this. I prefer the 3 stone hone due to its being spring loaded and don't have to buy a different hone for different sized cylinders. However the ball hones are in my opinion more aggresive..The stones can be also changed on the 3- 4 stone units. Fine- course.
If you picture in your mind the old timey tripod style hones, the edge where it touches the cylinder is 90°, so if it catches on something, it catches good. With the flex hone style, the little balls touch at a much more gentle angle, and the force required to flex one up and over a port lip, for example, is much less, so they pop over obstructions without catching and pealing the plating off, cause the plating is weakest at port edges or at the edges of scoring.
Tinman you freakin rock. I use 3 shoe brake hone for everything. Those ball hones are a way better idea even for breaks and pipe cleaning. Great video .!!!❤️🔥❤️🔥☀️🌙🪓 I used the scotch brite dermal attachment they have all different grits up to like 800 they work good for small areas .!!!!!
I’ve used the shoe hone and flex hone together on non-nikasil 2-stroke cylinders. I first coat the cylinder with a light coating of oil and run the shoe hone briefly at fairly slow speed. Pop in the flex hone and run just long enough to give a good cross hatch. No expert by any means but has worked well for me on quite the few old Rotax’s.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I have yet to hone a chainsaw. I did a few dirt bike cylinders we just sent three out to get resealed they were two bad. I have a few break cylinder hone kits. The two shoe worked great for taking the burrs off big copper pipe, I’ve even used them on steel muffler pipes. They come with 4 in the pack and only one is the three shoe so the others are whatever I can use them for 🤣. Tinman is rockin and rolling. I love this stuff. Kindness and love ❤️🔥☀️
Great video sir, Unfortunately the weather has migrated from your neighborhood to mine. Yesterday we had good amount of ice on the ground when we started having a thunderstorm. No kidding, enough ice to make commuting slower, thunder, rain then it turns to sleet. Again great video, stay warm.
Well, I posted a link to the manufacturer of those ball hones explaining you can use them on undamaged nikasil plated cylinders but it appears to have been deleted already. Keep up the good work Tinman.
Thanks TinMan, I did hone, and it looked about like your cylinder. However, after a few heat cycles, I took it apart and looked at what was going on. The cylinder was polished, but there was a MASSIVE amount of cast iron dust. I was using new Cabor rings. In short, after a few short runs, the honing marks were gone, and the bore was polished. I think I'll go back to green scrubbies wrapped around a dowel stick It was a three stone hone
I own Boston industrial honing Co. I have all types of hones, we do engines and industrial honing on all materials. I usually use sunnen hones, but I love those ball hones for ported 2 strokes, not so much for sizing but for breaking the sharp port corners and somewhat of a cross hatch. You can size with them but to remove stock for sizing you really need like a sunnen positive feed hone. Ball hones can dothe trick tho.
Great! I ran across your channel on utubes algorithm, now I gotta find out how a honed cylinder performs, I did notice Bucking Billy's comment there, funny as hell.
I appreciate the video. Getting ready to knock off the glaze on a 1955 Mercury Mark 25 Hurricane. Thanks for the insight after watching I’m going to give it hell. Lol
I’ve honed with a three shoe one and yes it worked for me But like you sed to each its own I’m going to buy these they look like better Thanks ID 👍FRIEND
I'd been meaning to get to this video since you posted. It's been hilarious looking at the Facebook groups and seeing honing questions start popping up all over the place. Your impact in the saw world is really getting clear to see friend, keep up the good work!
Hi buddy I have used the 3 shoe hones with success on an 032 oem cylinder,024 cylinder, and 041 cylinder and that’s it they wore out in that amount of time haha
You talk about learning, I'm watching because I got a mercedes 2.3l tore apart with a burnt piston and some severe deposits. Mercedes recommends a new block, my budget recommends an Appalachian overhaul.... lol
What a nice diversion while waiting to go snowblow and plow. I agree honing hard chrome plating is a no-no, the chrome is thin, transparent and brittle. Ni-Si is going to be much thicker and malleable.
What's the forgiveness on these hones? Will a 50mm hone work in a 48mm and 52mm cylinder? It would be nice to be able to have one for a few different cylinder sizes.
I used to use hones all the time when I was working for a shop, only ever wore the plating off of one cylinder, would hone in my own shop but the hones are so expensive here in my country.
I just did a saw that someone took sandpaper to. I used a 240 grit hone and it cleaned it up nice. The saw works like new again. $32 hone was well worth it to fix an 2050 johnsred.
I use flex hone's in the shop at work all the time! They definitely do the job! Depending on the job at hand, you can knock off heavy burrs or create a very nice and fine crosshatch pattern of needed. and uniform finish.
They make a 3 stone hone with felt wipers to be saturated with light oil. That's from small engine training. I've heard of covering the stones with panty hose but the man that said put it in bucket of soapy water sounds good to me.
I didn't even know this honing procedure could be done, well it sure is more than clear that it pays off, the cylinder's bore came out completely renewed in 20 seconds work. My Yamaha Zuma (BWS here in Europe) has a 70cc Polini aluminum kit fitted to it which has a chrome-nickel plating so I couldn't do this honing process to it.This cylinder has withstood quite a considerable amount of years in service therefore I'm currently with a C piston. I also have recently reached the final stage of the restoration I've been doing to this scooter in the last 7 months...I almost feel sorry for not having an iron cylinder instead of aluminum just so that I could take it out again in order to hone it 🤷♂️.
In the workshops I've worked in CRC lube is used when giving a quick hone. I saw one apprentice get over enthusiastic on a 4 cylinder he was working on and take the bore 20 thou bigger. Aliexpress has the dingleberry hones for about 20-25 bucks in the 50mm range.
I just heard your closing comment, and so I thought I would add, that I have only used three shoe hones, and have never used a ball hone. As for Buckin's comment, I am on the bananas are good side of life.
I get a lot of watching chainsaw videos. I was wondering if honing a cylinder would shorten the break in period of a new saw. I had a Stihl 036 and it only started to break in after 15 tanks of fuel and I'm not sure if it ever got fully seated in.
I use a 3 shoe hone. Always worked for me. Snowmobiles, bikes, saws, weed eaters, etc. Cautiously Send er! Just emory transfers at the end for the rings sake
My snowmobile cylinders I take a medium scotchbrite pad that is used for wet sanding primer and I fold them over lengthwise and twist a coat hanger around it and chuck it in my drill and spin it in and out of cylinder and never had an issue many of them I've done that way are still running. I've used the trick in both Nisil cylinders and chrome cylinders. It's kind of like running a patch through a gun barrel but with drill
I am all for honing good cylinders. The only comment I have is they suggest using aluminum oxide for nikasil cylinders 240 plus grit. Silicone carbide is for cast cylinders like steel engine blocks. Also. Ball hones are for many sizes. Not just size it says. If it fits it works.
the thing with honing is, do you destroy a cylinder.. or did you clean the cylinder from rough spots and create tiny little channels for fuel/oil mixture to hang out in..
I've got tiny flexhones for drum brake wheel cylinders, but I've only used the three-stone style on my vintage VW engine builds & they take a while to break the glaze on 'em.. Maybe time to buy some bigger flexhones!
I’m super interested in rebuilding an old saw some day and I’d assume it’s like a car engine on some level. You 100% hone vehicle motors so I’d assume you’d hone 2 strokes. Thanks for the content!
Hey ,ya ! Great vid....I work in Northern New Mexico with forest thinning and wildfire crews. I do a lot of chainsaw maintenance and repair. Recently thinking of honing cylinders for rebuilds. What abrasive style brush are you using ? Appreciate any assistance you can offer!
I heard bannanas are bad for ya ,,, i also heard bannanas are good for ya .
Eggs also lol, never Ben one to listen to any one. They also work great on snowmobiles and dirt bikes.
@@zachgordon9531 ui
well that's just bananas.
I agree with Buckin.’ He never vacillates on the beneficial properties of bananas.
Honing just seem right I did dirt bikes no different really Especially the China ones oil and 400 grit tape by hand oval rotation by design the piston catches the heat and gets trashed
Great video as always Tinman. I have been using those hones for 35 years. Always does a good job. Only difference is I use soapy water for lubricant. I actually submerge the cylinder in a bucket of soapy water when I hone. Works well for me and no messy oil everywhere 👍🏼
Right on… I just work under my faucet on my shop sink and work with the warm water… makes your visual inspection much clearer…
Make a video
I restore old Mercury outboards, I have been told not to hone the Mercasil bores, however I figured if you didn't get stupid with a hone they would be fine... Your video proved my point. Ordering my hones Now!! Thanks!!!
Those cylinder hones are excellent! As a truck mechanic I've overhauled many engines throughout the years and I would never put one back together without honing the cylinders with one of these tools. I have never honed a chrome cylinder so I cannot speak of that. Awesome job you are doing with the content!
I hone closed transfer port cylinders with three stone or tri hones and open transfer port cylinders with dingleberry hones or 220 sand paper if they are not to bad. The tri hone will tell you if the cylinder is round, if you have any taper near the top or something else wrong. They will also remove transfer. I use W-D 40 for lube.
Great video keep the good stuff coming
Tinman, honing definitely works. I have used the ball hones I'm many different cylinders on jet ski and marine engines. I was told by a very experienced race engine builder to never use a shoe hone in a two stroke cylinder. He said they can catch on the ports, breaking the shoe and absolutely trash a cylinder. If I rebuild an engine it gets honed unless I don't have that size or am replacing the cylinder. Keep up the great work Tinman. Your knowledge and humbleness is awesome. 🤘🪓🌳
Tinman thanks for making this video- I’ve always honed after porting and have used that same brand hone for years- never once have I had issues with the plating - if plating comes off than there’s a bigger issue than the ball home running through it- and you hit the nail on the head when you mention how running the hone through cleans up the chamfers and makes the edges flow better- your best line for sure was “ if you don’t want to hone than don’t hone” it’s crazy how one guy will say not to and it’s like guys who have never tried it get all nervous like your running a jackhammer up and down the hole…. Great video man!
Nailed it
I use both, ball hones and three shoe hones. With the the three shoe hone you have to be a little more careful because they can take material off faster then a ball hone. But I like them better because you are working with flat plains, so if you have waffling or low spots they'll show up. Where the ball hone will cover them up.
Covering them up is better for my ocd
I obviously mess with bike motors, it says it in my name. I watch you mainly cause of your attitude to the hobby. No one person is right , there's multiple ways to do things. Your a hundred percent right and that's my attitude too. If more people had this view there would be better connection and communication in our different communities. Great job.
I’ve used ball hones for years. BRM makes a great product! Thanks for the video!
I have used those same hones for all kind of things that need fit or just smartened up. They work great for everything especially cylinders. The finish in a cylinder can't be beat and they really do a good job on 2-cycle port edges like you said. Never had an issue with results after using them. Hey Buckin, bananas are really good for reducing muscle cramps! Have a good one everybody. Thanks Tinman, good video.
Thanks for this excellent video Tinman. Just gave me the confidence to ball hone my old 044 cylinder which came up beautifully. Get it all back to together and break it in. Most helpful!
I use the 3 stone spring loaded hones for just about every Atv I rebuild. Never had a problem with one not seating the rings.. Even on chrome/Nikisil cylinders. I once took a Nikisil cylinder for a Suzuki that needed replated and i couldn’t afford to get done so I took my 3 rock hone and honed it out to the next size piston, was a steel sleeve that was plated knocked the plating off of it and then it it back together with a new 1st oversized piston and rings. Rode that thing ram better than when I got it for over a yr sold it to a buddy and he rode the snot out of it for at least two more years before blowing it up..
Glad you covered this subject. I started playing with saws a few years ago and purchaced the same brushes you have. I've had great success cleaning up cylinders and also some failures on cylinders that were very worn. As you pointed out speed and duration are all part of the learning process. Wouldn't try chrome myself either. To thin, hard and brittle IMO. Thank's for the video!
well thank you for take your time to share your video , some people on net always tell this tools don’t work well 🤔
Great content as usual. Been watching for about 6 to 8 months now. Picked up a 64 homelite xl12 in junkyard and 74 homelite super ez auto. Awesome feeling to bring back vintage saws that have not run in who knows how long. Very relaxing for me. Keeps me looking for the next great find! Stay warm up there. Best wishes from Pa.
Fantastic and spot on Tinman!!! You totally hit the ball out of the park when you say hello you aren’t honestly honing anything but you a just doing a little bit of a deglaze job to make your rings a good bore to bite and cut and seat and seal up your bore nicely!!! I absolutely do new and used or basically every single engine I build! I’m a warm water underneath my sink for the water lubrication and materials removal so it’s not really even possible to damage the bore with the water process! Yeah man it’s just like 6 rpm’s and a couple seconds of action for a nice surface break not a 9K boring project! LMFFAO
Hi Tinman. Thank you for ALL that you do to help all of us grunts work on our saws! We are all indebted to you.
I was just out on the web looking for a source for the 320 grit silicon carbide flex hone for my Stihl 026 and I found a tool seller that has included an image of the Abrasive Selection page from the Brush Research catalog. It says "For deglazing Nikisil cylinders, we suggest 240 AO." So softer and courser stones than what you are using. And justgjt made the same comment about the aluminum oxide last month. Since we are only wanting to deglaze and/or crosshatch the surface the softer stone makes sense.
Removing the aluminum transfer and restoring the cylinder surface rather than jumping right into a new cylinder isn't controversial to me!😁
I am going to hone my build. I bought Caber rings. I will get back to you. FYI, here in Florida, we don't have to dress like an Eskimo. Great video, I love your approach to teaching. Gotta go hone shopping.
Great vid bud. Going to hone my Minarelli cylinder. Piston melted partially in the iron jug....so last ditch effort to see if I can bring her back to life.
i used a ball hone when i put new bearings forged rods and pistons in my honda before i boosted it. worked great. i also made a sleeve guard for it out of jb weld to reinforce the sleeve havnt had an issue yet and last time i got it dynoed it made 436 wheel horsepower. its amazing how much power u can get out of a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder lol. keep it up though buddy love your videos
Great channel. I do a lot of Polaris cylinders with Nikasil coating. I ball hone but only go one direction and I hone fast to get the recommended degree. I hone till I see a matt finish. I have also used stones to true the cylinder, but found the ball hones to be easier and less likely to chip or catch. If a cylinder is to the point it needs stones to true it up, it needs to be thrown out, or bored and Nikasil reapplied.
What grit and media ball hone do you use in your Polaris Nikasil cylinders?
Never used one on a small 2 stroke. YET! Only used them for chevy 350's, 454's and a hotrod honda gx200 I built for a minibike🤪 with great results! Makes perfect sense how they'll catch what one may have missed on the port chamfers👍
I use the ball hone for light clean up I use a 3 stone on beat cylinders as cylinders wear they become un round or out of square the 3 stone will actually show you how worn you cylinder is the ball hone will flex and curve with the cylinder walls they both have their purpose as for the cylinder coatings I'm not really sure to hone or not to hone I always just kinda just let my brain do its thing if i do I do if I don't I don't haven't killed anything yet I'm new to the channel and I like what I see learning alot about porting its a part of hotrodding I haven't ventured into yet got an old junk craftsman saw I'm gonna grind up and see what happens thanks for the inspiration man
I found this video quite interesting, because prior to watching this, I would never have honed a saw cylinder. I heard your comment about dry honing, and with three stone hones, what I learned long ago, was that dry honing takes off less metal than wet honing. The oil helps clear the debris from the stones, so they continue cutting much longer. My guess, is that the same thing would apply to the ball hones.
I'm glad you proved it to be possible I've got a few jugs with some glazing. Those flex hones are expensive tho.
Use a three stone it will do a wider range with one tool (as in all chainsaws) and it levels it out mores
You, sir, are an outstanding teacher. Your approach is admirable, to say the least! I always look forward to a Tinman video! 👍💪
I hone motorcycle cylinders all the time , with great results. The hone can be way oversized in a smooth 4 stroke cylinder. Its got to be closer in a 2 stroke .
During my brief stint at Arctic Cat, we would ball hone cylinders at rebuild. Just a couple in-and-outs...that's all. Have to do something to get the rings to seat. I did a lot of jetting and EFI testing and so I got to seize up a number of engines on purpose. Well, I'd lean out jetting and monitor detonation. If careful I'd catch it just before locking up the motor. I think a lot of times we'd just douse the ball hone in WD40 when honing.
Just a good dawn dish soap and water mix is sufficient to deglaze a cylinder. Ridged diamond for finish bore or removing material.
GREAT video Tinmsn!!!!! Been looking at these for years to do exactly what your doing but never been brave enough to try. I’ve heard the good and bad about them but watching your video sold me!!! You results are proof…. Very impressed with your results and how the cylinder looks afterwards. Thanks so much for showing this and your use system!!! Doctor Tinman THANK YOU for all you share!!!!
Love the video. I am interested in getting a ball hone.
I used the regular 3 leg hones.
To not so great success.
this is a better solution.
After honing try cleaning the cilinder wall with ATF transmission fluid.
Don't ask me why. But it works really well for getting all the honing particulets out of the cross hatching .
Have a nice day
I was given an Echo Pb500T back pack blower with a blown cylinder, piston and ring. I honed the cylinder, sanded the piston and carefully separated the ring. put it all back together and have been using it for a month now.
I'm working on the same blower. Regular gas was run in it. I'm thinking I'll replace the piston, but I sanded the cylinder transfer. But I could only find a 240grit. Do you think I'll be okay with that grit?
@@gregkloe so I ran a small hone thru it, sanded the piston, replaced the rings and it has been running over a year now.
I was always afraid to do that, but I think after this video I'll try! I usually use a tool for the drill (I think it's called scotch Brite flap wheel ) which has layers of fine sandpaper and scotch Brite in between the layers and the finish is amazing! The only downside is that it can be used one way so I have to modify it in order to use is both ways!
Tinman you are right that there is no clear size label on their packaging. If you look on the back, however, towards the bottom is a sticker. The top line of the stick has the size, grit and material. This keeps their packaging costs down, but it is a bit confusing. Thanks for the great content.
Honing was part of my job and I wouldn't think twice about using a flexihone on those cylinders, I used to hone various jobs to size and instead of changing to finer stones to get the required finish I used to wrap abrasive paper or scotchbrite around the stones.
If you are going through all the trouble to port a cylinder a good de-glaze is a very important step. A very glazed cylinder is not going to run any where near as good as a good cross hatching. You will notice the difference, especially if you want to run the engine for long periods of time. A glazed cylinder will be weird when it gets hot because the oil has nowhere to live. I have even been known to crosshatch a piston now and then with some 220 or 320 grit wet dry sandpaper 😉 anything to get the oil a place to be.
I think he should move in and out faster so that the cross hatch angle is increased.
I use the same brand hones that your using and do the exact same with a low speed cordless drill and I have had great luck! Great job Tinman ! Keep up the great videos!
Is stihl ms381 piston and ms038 are the same?
@@superflanker972 the “regular” 038 piston/cylinder is 50mm, the MAGNUM is BAWDARSE, and is 52mm diameter.
And there is a $hit-ton of difference!
New subscriber here from 🇬🇧 great content and delivery style, honest personal experience, no know it all attitude
Welcome to the channel!! And I appreciate the kind words
Hold on pause, its after work and you wanted to come hang out with us...and teach us. Such a good man buddy, after work I like to too but...just from my chair generally. Good loyal friend there tinman, love ya brother
Thanks, for the video
I was planning on honing one invert near future.
Glad I ran across yor video about honing.
Your a very enjoyable fellow to have in my living room! Always 👍
Run a ridged soft stone to check your bore and plating. Soft stone wont cut NiCom. I like the video! Harbor freight micrometer and telescoping gauges would be fine.
I made my own tool for the job . deep socket wrapped with 3k grit wetdry sand paper & then buttered up with the 3k/350grit diamond paste . I have a video on my channel of the stihl cylinder I’m taking about specifically. I used 100% muriatic acid before I did anything too . A tip for the acid is to stuff the cylinder with toilet paper then soak it with acid but not dripping all over the place . The idea is to make sure the acid stays in the cylinder by sticking to the nikasil coated walls ONLY via soaked acid toilet paper
*Mineral oil for break in. Semi synthetic at worst. NOT full synthetic.
Also, try be mindful about the 'in/out' movement speed you are going to use to achieve the optimal cross hatch angle.
This guy makes it look easier than it is, if you have never attempted it before. Make sure you set up your work area so you are in the absolute best position possible to control the drill movements to keep everything nice and square & consistent. That way, being the first ever attempt, it will either go perfectly as planed, or at least allow you to smoothly and accurately respond to anything that is unexpected.
Thanks, this has been on my mind. I appreciate your time and channel
I have good luck with one of those on an old merc 9.8 head last year.
I just ran it one direction.
Cheers,
Jon
HAHA BBR ! As a fabricator/sign maker, mechanic, 30 year + I know this. I prefer the 3 stone hone due to its being spring loaded and don't have to buy a different hone for different sized cylinders. However the ball hones are in my opinion more aggresive..The stones can be also changed on the 3- 4 stone units. Fine- course.
If you picture in your mind the old timey tripod style hones, the edge where it touches the cylinder is 90°, so if it catches on something, it catches good. With the flex hone style, the little balls touch at a much more gentle angle, and the force required to flex one up and over a port lip, for example, is much less, so they pop over obstructions without catching and pealing the plating off, cause the plating is weakest at port edges or at the edges of scoring.
Tinman you freakin rock. I use 3 shoe brake hone for everything. Those ball hones are a way better idea even for breaks and pipe cleaning. Great video .!!!❤️🔥❤️🔥☀️🌙🪓
I used the scotch brite dermal attachment they have all different grits up to like 800 they work good for small areas .!!!!!
I’ve used the shoe hone and flex hone together on non-nikasil 2-stroke cylinders. I first coat the cylinder with a light coating of oil and run the shoe hone briefly at fairly slow speed. Pop in the flex hone and run just long enough to give a good cross hatch. No expert by any means but has worked well for me on quite the few old Rotax’s.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I have yet to hone a chainsaw. I did a few dirt bike cylinders we just sent three out to get resealed they were two bad. I have a few break cylinder hone kits. The two shoe worked great for taking the burrs off big copper pipe, I’ve even used them on steel muffler pipes. They come with 4 in the pack and only one is the three shoe so the others are whatever I can use them for 🤣. Tinman is rockin and rolling. I love this stuff. Kindness and love ❤️🔥☀️
Great video sir,
Unfortunately the weather has migrated from your neighborhood to mine. Yesterday we had good amount of ice on the ground when we started having a thunderstorm. No kidding, enough ice to make commuting slower, thunder, rain then it turns to sleet.
Again great video, stay warm.
Well, I posted a link to the manufacturer of those ball hones explaining you can use them on undamaged nikasil plated cylinders but it appears to have been deleted already.
Keep up the good work Tinman.
Thanks TinMan, I did hone, and it looked about like your cylinder. However, after a few heat cycles, I took it apart and looked at what was going on. The cylinder was polished, but there was a MASSIVE amount of cast iron dust. I was using new Cabor rings. In short, after a few short runs, the honing marks were gone, and the bore was polished. I think I'll go back to green scrubbies wrapped around a dowel stick It was a three stone hone
I own Boston industrial honing Co. I have all types of hones, we do engines and industrial honing on all materials. I usually use sunnen hones, but I love those ball hones for ported 2 strokes, not so much for sizing but for breaking the sharp port corners and somewhat of a cross hatch. You can size with them but to remove stock for sizing you really need like a sunnen positive feed hone. Ball hones can dothe trick tho.
There it is... easy, great results. Thanks for showing me.
Thanks a bunch Tinman. I just ordered one with 320 grit.
Great! I ran across your channel on utubes algorithm, now I gotta find out how a honed cylinder performs, I did notice Bucking Billy's comment there, funny as hell.
I appreciate the video. Getting ready to knock off the glaze on a 1955 Mercury Mark 25 Hurricane. Thanks for the insight after watching I’m going to give it hell. Lol
Thanks buddy. Information, information information, no bs just solid learning
I’ve honed with a three shoe one and yes it worked for me
But like you sed to each its own
I’m going to buy these they look like better
Thanks ID 👍FRIEND
I'd been meaning to get to this video since you posted. It's been hilarious looking at the Facebook groups and seeing honing questions start popping up all over the place. Your impact in the saw world is really getting clear to see friend, keep up the good work!
Tinman makes power💪 and hone is a tool, in that deep box of magical tricks. Thank you for sharing. Knowledge is power.👍
Hi buddy I have used the 3 shoe hones with success on an 032 oem cylinder,024 cylinder, and 041 cylinder and that’s it they wore out in that amount of time haha
Superb video Tim.
Most of the times I hone with 3 shoes hone.
You talk about learning, I'm watching because I got a mercedes 2.3l tore apart with a burnt piston and some severe deposits. Mercedes recommends a new block, my budget recommends an Appalachian overhaul.... lol
What a nice diversion while waiting to go snowblow and plow.
I agree honing hard chrome plating is a no-no, the chrome is thin, transparent and brittle.
Ni-Si is going to be much thicker and malleable.
We got 8 inches so far up in northern maine
What's the forgiveness on these hones? Will a 50mm hone work in a 48mm and 52mm cylinder? It would be nice to be able to have one for a few different cylinder sizes.
Great experiment. Loved it!! Thank you.
I used to use hones all the time when I was working for a shop, only ever wore the plating off of one cylinder, would hone in my own shop but the hones are so expensive here in my country.
I just did a saw that someone took sandpaper to. I used a 240 grit hone and it cleaned it up nice. The saw works like new again. $32 hone was well worth it to fix an 2050 johnsred.
I use flex hone's in the shop at work all the time! They definitely do the job! Depending on the job at hand, you can knock off heavy burrs or create a very nice and fine crosshatch pattern of needed. and uniform finish.
They make a 3 stone hone with felt wipers to be saturated with light oil. That's from small engine training. I've heard of covering the stones with panty hose but the man that said put it in bucket of soapy water sounds good to me.
That was really cool Tinman. Never seen that done before.
I didn't even know this honing procedure could be done, well it sure is more than clear that it pays off, the cylinder's bore came out completely renewed in 20 seconds work. My Yamaha Zuma (BWS here in Europe) has a 70cc Polini aluminum kit fitted to it which has a chrome-nickel plating so I couldn't do this honing process to it.This cylinder has withstood quite a considerable amount of years in service therefore I'm currently with a C piston. I also have recently reached the final stage of the restoration I've been doing to this scooter in the last 7 months...I almost feel sorry for not having an iron cylinder instead of aluminum just so that I could take it out again in order to hone it 🤷♂️.
Great content! I've used water and diesel fuel for lubricant in the past with great success. I bet bacon grease would get the job done ;)
Hey Tinman, thanks for the vid!
Yes, I used a three stone hone for wheel cylinders. It worked fine, but the stones were a bit course. the saw runs fine.
In the workshops I've worked in CRC lube is used when giving a quick hone. I saw one apprentice get over enthusiastic on a 4 cylinder he was working on and take the bore 20 thou bigger. Aliexpress has the dingleberry hones for about 20-25 bucks in the 50mm range.
I just heard your closing comment, and so I thought I would add, that I have only used three shoe hones, and have never used a ball hone.
As for Buckin's comment, I am on the bananas are good side of life.
Great video. Nikasil is very hard, so when you hone it and take the light scratches out, it will do no harm to the cylinder.
It's only 1/5 of the way worn out, now.
Great job.
I get a lot of watching chainsaw videos. I was wondering if honing a cylinder would shorten the break in period of a new saw. I had a Stihl 036 and it only started to break in after 15 tanks of fuel and I'm not sure if it ever got fully seated in.
That's a good job Mr. Tinman.
Love that 044, all ofem for that matter, good info buddy thanks
How can you tell when the Nikasil has worn through or getting thin? Is the Nikasil a shinier metal?
I use a 3 shoe hone. Always worked for me. Snowmobiles, bikes, saws, weed eaters, etc. Cautiously Send er! Just emory transfers at the end for the rings sake
My snowmobile cylinders I take a medium scotchbrite pad that is used for wet sanding primer and I fold them over lengthwise and twist a coat hanger around it and chuck it in my drill and spin it in and out of cylinder and never had an issue many of them I've done that way are still running. I've used the trick in both Nisil cylinders and chrome cylinders. It's kind of like running a patch through a gun barrel but with drill
Thanks for your knowledge AGAIN.
Husqvarna and sthil German very good material very well designed and built
I am all for honing good cylinders. The only comment I have is they suggest using aluminum oxide for nikasil cylinders 240 plus grit. Silicone carbide is for cast cylinders like steel engine blocks. Also. Ball hones are for many sizes. Not just size it says. If it fits it works.
THEY ARE GREAT. I USED THEM ALL DAY
look good to me ,only used tri stone hone but that dingle berry hone gives real nice cross-hatch
Good to know. Good luck to you and yours!
I use a Wiseco nylon soft hone brush and light "cutting oil" which I purchased at Lowes. But only on Nikisil , not on chrome.
Thanks TM! I’m trying to save a cylinder for a Husky 390 and was wondering what the max clearance between piston and cyl you would use?
the thing with honing is, do you destroy a cylinder.. or did you clean the cylinder from rough spots and create tiny little channels for fuel/oil mixture to hang out in..
I've got tiny flexhones for drum brake wheel cylinders, but I've only used the three-stone style on my vintage VW engine builds & they take a while to break the glaze on 'em.. Maybe time to buy some bigger flexhones!
Thanks for sharing your skills. Really helpful 👍
I’m super interested in rebuilding an old saw some day and I’d assume it’s like a car engine on some level. You 100% hone vehicle motors so I’d assume you’d hone 2 strokes. Thanks for the content!
Those cylinders look BEAUTIFUL! Especially since you can't hone nikasil.... you rebel you! 😁
@@jasoncook5307 that just can't be! You'll wreck the plating! Lol 😉
Hey ,ya ! Great vid....I work in Northern New Mexico with forest thinning and wildfire crews. I do a lot of chainsaw maintenance and repair. Recently thinking of honing cylinders for rebuilds.
What abrasive style brush are you using ?
Appreciate any assistance you can offer!