My brother has one in his home. We are located in central FL. His family must use a lot of hot water, because they say that the water doesn't stay hot when the unit is in Eco mode. Using Heat Pump mode has been more consistent, though.
@@b0bsaget007 I'm still not sure what the difference between the two modes is. Mine has been set and left in Heat Pump mode and the only time I've ever seen the heating element turn on as been the very first start up 3.5 years ago. I wonder if it's running the compressor differently that you're seeing different recovery times.
I have had a Rheem 50 gallon HPWH for 6 years now, and it's been great. It is located in my garage with closed off attic space above, so I have plumbed the air intake for it to draw from the peak of the attic - which raises inlet temperatures by 3-20F depending on season and time of day. I keep it in heat pump only mode for maximum savings, and with the rebates I received when I installed it, am money ahead vs. if I had kept the previous electric water heater in place. The Rheem water heaters have 4 different modes of active operation, in order of most to least efficient: Heat pump only, Eco (hybrid heat pump and resistance), High Demand (more aggressive resistance heat but still hybrid), and Resistance heat only. All of these modes make them highly versatile for changing needs. I have seen it advised however that upsizing makes more sense if using any of the hybrid modes is likely, as that provides a higher buffer of hot water to draw on which may eliminate the need for anything more than heat pump only. Happy I got it. Installed it myself. The only problem I continue to have with it is dust accumulation from woodworking, etc. (Better filtering is a must if that's a regular thing.)
I have one as well for over 2 years now. Works great and low energy consumption. Also replaced dryer to a heat pump model. Miele, it’s a bit small but runs on 120volts. Also use two solar powered heat pump mini splits for heating and cooling from signature solar. Two electric cars as well. All powered off of 60 solar panels. No more natural gas bill. No more gasoline bill. No more electric bills with payed off solar. Have to pay to play. I just think of PG&E like a bad credit card that never gets paid off and has a variable interest rate in the wrong direction…. I hate credit cards….
BC Canada here, I have the exact same unit and going on my 4th year of use and I still love it. It's like my hot water bill disappeared. I have 8Kw of solar installed on my house so I have to be power efficient and this was definitely worth it. I'm going on my 4th year now of never paying for Hydro (that's what we call our electricity bill here in BC). When I purchased this unit the standard rebate was $1000 but because of COVID the provincial gov't doubled the rebates for that year and I actually got a $2000 rebate for a $2400 install, Awesome!!! It's still going strong with zero issues so far.
I have a large greenhouse (15' x 48') in which I built a small (4'x11') walk-in cooler. I have an 8K BTU window AC unit that uses the CoolBot Controller that tricks the AC unit into keeping the walk-in cooler at 37° F. One of the side benefits of this arrangement is that the warm side of the AC unit heats the greenhouse in the spring for even earlier crops than normal, and also extends the growing season in the fall to where I'm harvesting tomatoes as late as November, while the tomato plants outdoors have been long dead.
I am now going to make a root cellar of some sort dug into the side of a hill that will then also have a greenhouse on that side of the hill and I'll separate the two with a door and a wall that has a bunch of old window-mounted AC units that people don't want anymore because now they all have to use those portable floor one because we can't have slide up windows anymore.
I installed the 50 gallon version a year ago. I live in Florida and it's simply a bonus that some temperature/humidity reduction is a byproduct in my garage now. It's not much, but it's essentially free. The sale price was $1449 and then I also did get a $300 tax rebate. I think it will pay itself back after a few years due to the energy savings. So far, it works really well and the noise is not an issue since it's in the garage.
I will certainly consider one when my 30 year old gas water heater dies (in the garage, in Phoenix). Cooling off the garage would be a genuine bonus. So far, I have had the pilot light blow out twice (simple fix, relight it), and a plastic drain valve disintegrate (we have a lot of ozone pollution, replaced with a brass fitting). It's still going strong, so economically, it would make no sense. Today it's 80 degrees, so cooling off the garage would really only be a negative for at most 3 months of the year.
I just did this in phoenix this summer. My gas water heater was the last thing on gas. it was $400 for an electrician to run 30 amp service to the spot. the water heater was 1900 for a 65 gallon and 600 for a plumber to install it. I was able to shut off my gas which saves me about 600 per year and now im only spending about an additional 150 in electricity per year and my garage gets a little bit of cooling. there is a 30% federal rebate too to cover total conversion project cost.
@Thebackson Thank you for the breakdown of what it cost you. Hot water heater, central heater and gas dryer still here. The central unit was replaced in 2014 with a new Trane unit, so it would be very costly for me to get where I could shut off the gas. I will say that a $500 rebate by SRP got me a SEER 17 AC for only $200 more than the SEER 15 unit. Since it replaced an SER 10 unit from 1994, that made a large impact on my electric bill (nothing but the cheapest legally allowed for this builder). I've got to wait and see what impact the looming rate increase has. Unfortunately I just retired, so I must first concentrate on necessary improvements first. Like replacing the concrete for the pool cool decking that spalls so badly the cool decking needs replacing every 2 or 3 years, and cutting down the palm tree that has gotten so tall it costs me $500 every 6 months to get it trimmed. I do appreciate the feedback on what it cost you. I can highly recommend a swamp cooler if you need to do any work in the garage during the summer, worth every penny. I bought the house in January 2002 for 130k, it's paid for, so it is what it is (i.e. worth about 350k more than I paid for it).
Great video. We built a house 4 years ago and our builder made it super energy efficient. Part of that efficiency is a Bradford-White Aerotherm heat pump water heater, 50 gallon, just like yours. We are two older adults (late 60's, with no children at home. We're set in our habits, and the average shower is 6-8 minutes long. I did turn the unit up to 125ºF, and then recently to 127ºF because we have a 2300 sq ft ranch home and the water heater is in the garage, on the opposite end of the house from the master bathroom. That way I can mix the temp down and get more hot water. My garage is typically 48-55 degrees in the winter, fully insulated, but not heated. The water heater doesn't seem to contribute to the cold that much, and in the summer doesn't help to cool the over-size three car garage. The efficiency rating of a standard electric water heater is 1.0. The efficiency of a heat pump water heater is 4.0, if I remember correctly. Even with relatively cheap 10.0 cent per kWh electricity, I'm happy to have the savings of this unit. 4+ years old and not a single problem.
Do you use your garage for cars? Do you open the garage door daily? If so, I'd imagine there's way too much air exchange to notice any difference with a heat pump water heater.
I have two and love them. One is in my barn, and I’ve connected ducting for intake and discharge air because it’s in a small boiler room. The second is in my basement and similar to you it keeps the basement cooler than normal but not a problem. It also provides “free” dehumidification. The one in the barn will often need to run the element during the winter months but still is a net win over the old oil boiler that had been producing hot water there. The house unit runs in heat pump mode all year round.
9:30 they are saying to duct the air intake from outside. These units can, and in some cases should, be ducted such as a small installation area, or pulling air from an attic space which increases efficiency.
I agree there are some instances where it would be very beneficial, such as one of the other commenters whom said they duct warm air from their attic; however, certainly not a "requirement".
@@LithiumSolar In my area, pulling in air from the attic would be a real boost to efficiency, 120 degrees and above in the summer! Unfortunately the 2 story house I own would make that very difficult or extremely expensive (master bedroom is above the garage). I have to park the car outside and let it "cool down" before putting it in the garage. Driving on the freeway and pulling it into the garage will easily get the garage about 130 in the summer.
I have a g.e. heat pump water heater that's been running in my basement in ohio for 11 years now, heat pump only mode set to 120 degrees, it's fantastic!!!!!
Thanks for the video. I just checked my gas water heater usage. It averages about $15/mo in NY, so a little more expensive per month. It has lasted 23 years so far with an occasional anode replacement every 7 years. But curious about heat pumps. I have solar too, but I paid for it, so it did cost me money to run things off of it, not really free. But at this point it's generated more electricity than it originally costs, so for me, it's free from here on out. Although that's if I had stuffed the money in a mattress and not invested it. 3:00 I don't have insulated floors between the basement and first floor so technically my basement is conditioned space regardless if the basement walls are insulated, so every degree removed from my basement pulls heat from the floor above because the floors get cold. And unless you live in an area that the ground is more than 64°, your basement walls and floor are pulling heat from the room rather than supplying heat to the heatpump. Heat only goes in one direction. Although, in the end, I doubt anybody is going to notice $12 worth of extra heat that their house heating system supplies. On the other hand, the heat pump water heater dehumidifies the basement which is an added benefit and helps cool the house in the summer.
Your numbers are great. My electric hot water uses 210kWh in the winter and yours is under 100kWh. I would say the heat pump is much more efficient than a heating element.
I have the same model and size. I used 830 kWh in my first year, just two people. I agree with the video, especially the noise description. When my basement cools off a little in the winter, it uses more power. In my case I save a little vs. gas but it is very close and depends a lot on gas costs - just a couple of years ago gas was 250% more than today.
Excellent video! Thanks for making it. You contrast a lot of question I've had about this topic. For me, with trying to get to a solar based energy system, the heat pump idea is the only way to go.
I've had mine for 11.5 months. I'm on a solar power system with battery, and a super-cheap off peak electric price at night. I've used 3x as much power as you have, because if there is sufficient solar, I run it in electric mode to save the compressor/heatpump. I run it in electric mode at night too. I run it in eco mode during the hours between solar fading in the evening and until the cheap off peak pricing starts, and again in eco mode in the AM when the peak pricing starts but before Solar is available. Mine is in the garage, and I can definitely hear the compressor in the house (another reason I run it in electric mode at night). Overall I'm happy with it, I like the programmability with an ESP board and Home Assistant. (The Econet App that comes with it is pretty bad, so slow to update). Edit: I program mine to change temperature, dropping when nobody is home, and going back up to 140 before Solar drops off. I do 140 because, on the 50 gal model, I struggle to have enough hot water with a family of four. I wanted to get a larger capacity unit, but the ledge in my garage wasn't big enough where the tank goes.
@@JM-yx1lm I figured someone would ask that, it's a good question: It wasn't that expensive, and I got a good rebate from the transmission/distribution company (and the tax credit too). I've got prohibitively expensive electric rates on-peak, but great rates off peak. With my Solar, it gives me flexibility during cloudy days to run cheaply during peak using the heatpump. I was already budgeting extra for wiring electric (I am getting rid of all gas in the house) so I just went with it. And lastly, I liked the idea of it cooling my garage which gets so hot and I can run heatpump then. Will it break even? Maybe, maybe not. A bit of an experiment for me, seeing how I can integrate with HA and automate around sunny/cloudy and having it switch operating modes. I play around with the different modes during different seasons to see if I can save money. Edit: Also I would run eco mode at night, but it's so loud being in the garage next to a living space. I wasn't sure how that would be going in. Now I know about that.
Excellent and well rounded presentation. Thank you. If I only had electric in my home as an option, I would consider one. However, I have a gas water heater now and the unit itself is about 1/3 the cost of a heat pump model and my monthly operating costs are actually lower than with electric (heat pump or otherwise). I think the big concern for me is the repair cost and failure rates as the heat pump models as they get to be 8, 10, 12 years old. Folks are used to going 15, 20 even 30 years with virtually no repairs on standard gas/electric units and that just wont be the case for heat pump or tank-less models.
I have the AO Smith version and it has been working fine for the last 5 years sitting happily in the garage. It was part of the deal when I had my grid-tie solar installed in my home. However I did install a Corro-Protec powered anode due municipal water supply is just below the borderline of not needing additional water conditioning and a full opening port boiler drain valve to replace the crappy OEM drain valve. Just one of the few maintenance items checked off the list for the life of the water heater. Besides draining out 10 gallons from the bottom of the tank quarterly and blowing out the dust bunnies once a year with shop air is about it. I did find out that it is quite generator friendly when I lost power for 8 days when Hurricane Milton blew through town. Even having 3 extra people stopping by per day for hot showers and laundry gave it a good workout, but it handled it fairly well overall.
I have an 80 gallon rheem that replaced a 50 gallon all electric. We have a big tub that takes 50-60 gallons to fill so we went big. I went the mixing valve route and run the tank at 140 then mix to 120. It's not really any different than the mixing happening at the shower and tub valves but it makes me feel better that the scald risk is gone. Electricity usage of the water heater went from $40 a month to $15. My payback period will be incredibly short. Local rebates made it a no brainer. For the ones worried about the heat pump failures and not having hot water, you can run it in resistance only mode from what I can tell. Do be prepared for the weight of these things, mines like 260? I've already convinced a few others to switch after seeing the benefits.
Interesting, do you find it consumes a lot of extra power to get to 140? Ie less efficient than power required to heat it to 120? That's another reason I haven't installed the mixing valve. Maybe I should just do it and see how it works... And yes, mine is heavy as ... also, took 2 people to stand it up from laying down.
@LithiumSolar I really don't know how much less efficient it is, I haven't done any testing yet. I track it with emporia but I know the econet app can track too. I want to try some lower temps to see how efficient I can get it I just haven't yet.
I have the same unit with a mixing valve and it works well. The heat pump function is not great and if you monitor the temps it can't keep up with a family of 4 on its own. I run mine in electric mode 90% of the time. The power company in my area gave me a 50% credit for the heater so I gave it a try.
I just put a 65 gallon one in my phoenix garage about 6 months ago. there isnt anything wrong with cooling off my garage. im about 470kwh worth of electricity over the last 6 months. I am looking forward to my 1 year mark to see how much electricity it uses.
Hi - Great video as usual. Apparently Rheem (maybe others?) do make a version of the heat pump water heater that is made to plug into a standard 120 VAC outlet - Home Depot has them - "ProTerra 50 Gal. 120-Volt Plug-in Smart Heat Pump Water Heater with Leak Detection and Auto Shutoff and 10-Year Warranty" They are more expensive and I suppose have a lower recovery rate.
I have an external compressor heatpump unit and an internal system of two large isolated vats. One vat is to balance the underfloor heating system and it barely goes over 24c or so (very efficient). The other is the hot water supply and it's mostly around 45 to 55c. It does a weekly cycle where it heats the vat to 60 ~ 65c to get rid of any chance of legionella. The system is strong enough to supply 400+ liters of hot water and it can supply in realtime should the system be empty. It also have an external electrical coil that can add heat if needed (COP of 1, very inefficient but nice as backup). The external heatpump and main control unit are from NIBE, works great for me.
I installed the 80 gallon version in the Fall of 2021 and have had a similar great experience. Only complaint is that the EcoNet module went offline after a few months and I’ve never been able to get it working again. I call Rheem and they blame it on my ISP or my router settings but don’t offer specifics. I’ve tried tethering to my home as well without any luck.
I bet it is no louder than my existing 90+% efficient water heater and air handler, which is in the center of my finished basement with living space on both sides. It has a 130K BTU-H burner and a 45 gallon tank so I use a lot more BTUs than that little heat pump can provide because it also heats my house. I set the water heater at 145F in the summer and it runs the burner +/-10F from that point, 150F right now, and if winter gets colder I'll bump it higher. I have an electric plumbed in series before the gas water heater. If 180F on the gas water heater is not hot enough then I turn on the electric. And yes, I have a mixing valve that feeds the house. Legionnaire's is a thing, so I want my water heater to get above 140F fairly often. That alone is not sufficient, but every little bit helps. Other countries are now requiring the water heater to periodically heat hot enough to kill legionella, and we should as well.
Almost installed one a few years ago... But it was a small enclosed "stock room" and wasn't too sure on heat exchange and clearances... Plus had to replace the old one pronto... Went with a rheem with plastic tank but not a heat pump... Still quite interesting for the next one.
I have had one for 2 years and I think it’s a great idea but it has a long way to go to be a better product I have had humorous issues with it freezing up. And I’ve had to fix diagnose and replace parts on this with rheems help I’m not trying to talk down about most home owners, but I do have an electrical background and multimeters and have had to do some testing on this that I don’t know if most people are up to I started having problems about 11 months and they only cover sending a tech out until 12 months or one year so they would not help me. I replaced the thermostat on this unit three times I believe now. And they send you new parts but you have to install them or have them installed I’m using this unit to heat my hot water but also to cool my solar room since I have my Solar room in the basement where my woodstove at so this works well for that application but I would not buy another one of these units considering the price of them After the rebate I run my house 3/4 of the time with Solar and a battery back up In my house it’s me and my 2 girls and this thing seems like it barely ever shuts off
don't have one yet but it's on the shortllist, to replace a ~10yr old gas unit. looking at getting the 120v heat pump-only version, my panel is full and i'd rather avoid running an additional 230v circuit anyway... thanks for the video. love the deadpan annoyance at all the keyboard warriors
Wow, you're right! They do have a 120V plug-in version now. That seems like a terrible idea, but who am I to decide that I guess lol. I am not an electrician or an engineer.
I have the 120 volt unit, 50 gal. It works fine for my wife and I. When we have had guests, it hasn't run out of hot water. So, after a year of use I have no complaints. Oh, it doesn't have a heating element only the heat pump.
@@LithiumSolar They have 120v air conditioners. I can't imagine the BTU exchange of an AC unit would be less than the water heater. Especially if it's only using ~80kWh/mo. Window AC units use about 5-10kWh/day. I'd imagine the 120v units don't have a quick resistive heat recovery mode which requires a pretty hefty wiring connection (basically the same as a regular electric water heater). 80kWh/month is ~ 2.5kWh per day, or at 120v running 24x7 less than 1 amp at 120v. Not as much as most people think. Say it runs 50% of the time, then you're only talking less than 2 amps for 12 hrs a day.
My question was (at least I thought I asked it) what the temperature is of the exhaust air the reason is my garage is next to my furnace room where I would locate the hybrid heater so input air would be say 70f and I want to exhaust into my unheated garage and if the air is not to cold it could be a heat source in winter for my garage. Sounds weird right lol. Thanks for the video
I set ours at 120 at first but our water came out smelling like sulfur. I upped it to 140 and that stopped the bad smell. 140 also gives us more hot water capacity.
I feel your pain with all the armchair experts. Anything that saves a lot of money gets attacked by people who are paying more. I would be interested to know how much better this heat pump model is compared to a regular electric water heater. Either percentage-wise, or how much money per year (if both ran from grid power). Are we talking about saving 10%, 50%, 75%?
The energy label on this one states 866 kWh/year and the label on the electric heater I replaced was 4622 kWh/year. Obviously it's entirely dependent on your usage. Both have a first-hour rating of 67 gallons. The old heater is long-gone but the labels were shown at 2:00 in the first video. If I had to make an armchair guess based on my obsessive power statistics watching, I'd place it around 1/3rd the power of the old electric tank.
It would be nice if you said how many gallons of water were used. Your use case is much different than others, and the only way to tell how efficient it is is to say how many kWh per gallon is used. Also, 130 is the ideal temperature for water; 120 is used to hit the target energy savings numbers, but most post-install units I have seen are at 130.
@@LithiumSolar should have said it would be nice if these units could calculate how many gallons they process.. My On-Demand unit does that, It is kinda nice to make sure it is performing as it should.
We had a Rheem heat pump hot water system on our newly built house as it was a BASIX sustainability requirement! It broke down 5 times in 12 months! The repair man kept replacing electronic PCBs. It was ridiculously complicated when all you required it to do is boil water. The other thing they don't tell you is it will not work under 3 degrees C as it requires a higher temperature for the refrigerant to do its thing, remembering that's what it basically is doing is using a compressor to boil the water. After being let down multiple more times and waiting for the technician to once again repair it, I had enough and got a plumber out to replace it with a dual element 450 litre and took the heat pump to the dump still under warranty! It was awesome to have reliable hot water regardless of the outside temperature! When the technician arrived I told him if he wants to fix it it's at the dump! He said I don't blame you!
You dont.. That is why these would never work for me.. How do you fill a tub for the kids and have enough water for two adults to shower... On-demand units are where it is at unless you have the money to buy 2 or 3 of these hot water heaters..
I can't even imagine spending more than 7 minutes. Although that is the advantage of being bald. Turn on the water, maybe 2 minutes to soap up and 2 minutes to rinse.
I'll be honest, I never actually timed my showers but it seems like it would be more than 7 minutes. Also, there are nights when we do 2 kid baths, then 2 adult showers back to back and there is still hot water at the end of the last shower. There is a slight decrease in temperature by that point but you would hardly notice it unless you're purposely looking for it.
I do remember seeing this when I visited a few years back. My understanding is it was because typical houses in Australia don't have basements? Ours are not designed for outdoor use.
I installed a Rheeme 50gal hybrid (heat-pump) in 2019 and agree with all you're saying. Mine is under my house with ranges from 55F in dead winter and 75F in dead summer and still works very well. We run ~1900kwh/year which is ~$285/year = $24/month but we run in cold ambient temp in winter (55F) which causes it to use 50% more power compared to 75F ambient summer. I set mine at 125F, run in heat-pump only mode (max of 400w) all the time which is easy on the off-grid inverters. When it runs out (say washing 2 loads + some showers) it's a gradual (over 10min) lowering of temp the same as any water heater and you can hurry up and finish the shower. It takes maybe 2-3hrs to fully recover if you run all the way out. Also, the Rheeme has full 'regular' 4,500w electric heating elements and you can switch to high demand mode if say you had visitors for Christmas for a week and had hi demand. For us, its very quiet. I get 'clear filter' warnings every other year and I just rest because the filter is never dirty but still - I'd install somewhere with easy access. One key difference with heat-pump is, like an air conditioner you have to run a humidity/condensate line somewhere where the drips of water can drain... I ran mine thru the wall to the outside and there are other options.
My resistive water heater is literally two feet away from my main bedroom. Sorry, no chance in hell it will ever be a monolithic heat pump. Maybe if they do a remote compressor, combine with the condo HVAC…
heat pump works exactly like an a/c and consists of only 5 components, there is no moving parts besides compressor and fan, which is supposed to run for years. heat pump should have a reliability of a fridge
Not worth it. My Bosch instant Nat gas heater uses less than 5 therms/mo to run. It's been running flawlessly for the last 18 years. I'd rather take the $ and install a 3k gallon water tank and pump. Water here is $100/mo.
It's set to 123F, that IS higher. If I ever install that mixing valve that's been sitting in the box for 2 years, I'll up it to 130F. But I'm not interested in my family being scalded by accident.
Do you have a Rheem heat pump water heater? Please share your experience!
My brother has one in his home. We are located in central FL. His family must use a lot of hot water, because they say that the water doesn't stay hot when the unit is in Eco mode. Using Heat Pump mode has been more consistent, though.
@@b0bsaget007 I'm still not sure what the difference between the two modes is. Mine has been set and left in Heat Pump mode and the only time I've ever seen the heating element turn on as been the very first start up 3.5 years ago. I wonder if it's running the compressor differently that you're seeing different recovery times.
I have had a Rheem 50 gallon HPWH for 6 years now, and it's been great. It is located in my garage with closed off attic space above, so I have plumbed the air intake for it to draw from the peak of the attic - which raises inlet temperatures by 3-20F depending on season and time of day. I keep it in heat pump only mode for maximum savings, and with the rebates I received when I installed it, am money ahead vs. if I had kept the previous electric water heater in place.
The Rheem water heaters have 4 different modes of active operation, in order of most to least efficient: Heat pump only, Eco (hybrid heat pump and resistance), High Demand (more aggressive resistance heat but still hybrid), and Resistance heat only. All of these modes make them highly versatile for changing needs. I have seen it advised however that upsizing makes more sense if using any of the hybrid modes is likely, as that provides a higher buffer of hot water to draw on which may eliminate the need for anything more than heat pump only.
Happy I got it. Installed it myself. The only problem I continue to have with it is dust accumulation from woodworking, etc. (Better filtering is a must if that's a regular thing.)
I have one as well for over 2 years now. Works great and low energy consumption. Also replaced dryer to a heat pump model. Miele, it’s a bit small but runs on 120volts. Also use two solar powered heat pump mini splits for heating and cooling from signature solar. Two electric cars as well. All powered off of 60 solar panels. No more natural gas bill. No more gasoline bill. No more electric bills with payed off solar. Have to pay to play. I just think of PG&E like a bad credit card that never gets paid off and has a variable interest rate in the wrong direction…. I hate credit cards….
How can you be off-grid and have the power company reimburse you for the water heater? You don't need to be a custormer?
BC Canada here, I have the exact same unit and going on my 4th year of use and I still love it. It's like my hot water bill disappeared. I have 8Kw of solar installed on my house so I have to be power efficient and this was definitely worth it. I'm going on my 4th year now of never paying for Hydro (that's what we call our electricity bill here in BC). When I purchased this unit the standard rebate was $1000 but because of COVID the provincial gov't doubled the rebates for that year and I actually got a $2000 rebate for a $2400 install, Awesome!!! It's still going strong with zero issues so far.
I have a large greenhouse (15' x 48') in which I built a small (4'x11') walk-in cooler. I have an 8K BTU window AC unit that uses the CoolBot Controller that tricks the AC unit into keeping the walk-in cooler at 37° F. One of the side benefits of this arrangement is that the warm side of the AC unit heats the greenhouse in the spring for even earlier crops than normal, and also extends the growing season in the fall to where I'm harvesting tomatoes as late as November, while the tomato plants outdoors have been long dead.
I am now going to make a root cellar of some sort dug into the side of a hill that will then also have a greenhouse on that side of the hill and I'll separate the two with a door and a wall that has a bunch of old window-mounted AC units that people don't want anymore because now they all have to use those portable floor one because we can't have slide up windows anymore.
I installed the 50 gallon version a year ago. I live in Florida and it's simply a bonus that some temperature/humidity reduction is a byproduct in my garage now. It's not much, but it's essentially free. The sale price was $1449 and then I also did get a $300 tax rebate. I think it will pay itself back after a few years due to the energy savings. So far, it works really well and the noise is not an issue since it's in the garage.
Florida here, I have one in my garage. It is amazing to get bonus cooling in the garage.
I will certainly consider one when my 30 year old gas water heater dies (in the garage, in Phoenix). Cooling off the garage would be a genuine bonus. So far, I have had the pilot light blow out twice (simple fix, relight it), and a plastic drain valve disintegrate (we have a lot of ozone pollution, replaced with a brass fitting). It's still going strong, so economically, it would make no sense. Today it's 80 degrees, so cooling off the garage would really only be a negative for at most 3 months of the year.
I just did this in phoenix this summer. My gas water heater was the last thing on gas. it was $400 for an electrician to run 30 amp service to the spot. the water heater was 1900 for a 65 gallon and 600 for a plumber to install it. I was able to shut off my gas which saves me about 600 per year and now im only spending about an additional 150 in electricity per year and my garage gets a little bit of cooling. there is a 30% federal rebate too to cover total conversion project cost.
@Thebackson Thank you for the breakdown of what it cost you. Hot water heater, central heater and gas dryer still here. The central unit was replaced in 2014 with a new Trane unit, so it would be very costly for me to get where I could shut off the gas. I will say that a $500 rebate by SRP got me a SEER 17 AC for only $200 more than the SEER 15 unit. Since it replaced an SER 10 unit from 1994, that made a large impact on my electric bill (nothing but the cheapest legally allowed for this builder). I've got to wait and see what impact the looming rate increase has. Unfortunately I just retired, so I must first concentrate on necessary improvements first. Like replacing the concrete for the pool cool decking that spalls so badly the cool decking needs replacing every 2 or 3 years, and cutting down the palm tree that has gotten so tall it costs me $500 every 6 months to get it trimmed. I do appreciate the feedback on what it cost you. I can highly recommend a swamp cooler if you need to do any work in the garage during the summer, worth every penny. I bought the house in January 2002 for 130k, it's paid for, so it is what it is (i.e. worth about 350k more than I paid for it).
Great video. We built a house 4 years ago and our builder made it super energy efficient. Part of that efficiency is a Bradford-White Aerotherm heat pump water heater, 50 gallon, just like yours. We are two older adults (late 60's, with no children at home. We're set in our habits, and the average shower is 6-8 minutes long. I did turn the unit up to 125ºF, and then recently to 127ºF because we have a 2300 sq ft ranch home and the water heater is in the garage, on the opposite end of the house from the master bathroom. That way I can mix the temp down and get more hot water. My garage is typically 48-55 degrees in the winter, fully insulated, but not heated. The water heater doesn't seem to contribute to the cold that much, and in the summer doesn't help to cool the over-size three car garage. The efficiency rating of a standard electric water heater is 1.0. The efficiency of a heat pump water heater is 4.0, if I remember correctly. Even with relatively cheap 10.0 cent per kWh electricity, I'm happy to have the savings of this unit. 4+ years old and not a single problem.
Do you use your garage for cars? Do you open the garage door daily? If so, I'd imagine there's way too much air exchange to notice any difference with a heat pump water heater.
I have two and love them. One is in my barn, and I’ve connected ducting for intake and discharge air because it’s in a small boiler room. The second is in my basement and similar to you it keeps the basement cooler than normal but not a problem. It also provides “free” dehumidification. The one in the barn will often need to run the element during the winter months but still is a net win over the old oil boiler that had been producing hot water there. The house unit runs in heat pump mode all year round.
9:30 they are saying to duct the air intake from outside. These units can, and in some cases should, be ducted such as a small installation area, or pulling air from an attic space which increases efficiency.
I agree there are some instances where it would be very beneficial, such as one of the other commenters whom said they duct warm air from their attic; however, certainly not a "requirement".
@@LithiumSolar In my area, pulling in air from the attic would be a real boost to efficiency, 120 degrees and above in the summer! Unfortunately the 2 story house I own would make that very difficult or extremely expensive (master bedroom is above the garage). I have to park the car outside and let it "cool down" before putting it in the garage. Driving on the freeway and pulling it into the garage will easily get the garage about 130 in the summer.
I have a g.e. heat pump water heater that's been running in my basement in ohio for 11 years now, heat pump only mode set to 120 degrees, it's fantastic!!!!!
Thanks for the video. I just checked my gas water heater usage. It averages about $15/mo in NY, so a little more expensive per month. It has lasted 23 years so far with an occasional anode replacement every 7 years. But curious about heat pumps. I have solar too, but I paid for it, so it did cost me money to run things off of it, not really free. But at this point it's generated more electricity than it originally costs, so for me, it's free from here on out. Although that's if I had stuffed the money in a mattress and not invested it. 3:00 I don't have insulated floors between the basement and first floor so technically my basement is conditioned space regardless if the basement walls are insulated, so every degree removed from my basement pulls heat from the floor above because the floors get cold. And unless you live in an area that the ground is more than 64°, your basement walls and floor are pulling heat from the room rather than supplying heat to the heatpump. Heat only goes in one direction. Although, in the end, I doubt anybody is going to notice $12 worth of extra heat that their house heating system supplies. On the other hand, the heat pump water heater dehumidifies the basement which is an added benefit and helps cool the house in the summer.
Your numbers are great. My electric hot water uses 210kWh in the winter and yours is under 100kWh. I would say the heat pump is much more efficient than a heating element.
I have the same model and size. I used 830 kWh in my first year, just two people. I agree with the video, especially the noise description. When my basement cools off a little in the winter, it uses more power. In my case I save a little vs. gas but it is very close and depends a lot on gas costs - just a couple of years ago gas was 250% more than today.
Excellent video! Thanks for making it. You contrast a lot of question I've had about this topic. For me, with trying to get to a solar based energy system, the heat pump idea is the only way to go.
I've had mine for 11.5 months. I'm on a solar power system with battery, and a super-cheap off peak electric price at night. I've used 3x as much power as you have, because if there is sufficient solar, I run it in electric mode to save the compressor/heatpump. I run it in electric mode at night too. I run it in eco mode during the hours between solar fading in the evening and until the cheap off peak pricing starts, and again in eco mode in the AM when the peak pricing starts but before Solar is available. Mine is in the garage, and I can definitely hear the compressor in the house (another reason I run it in electric mode at night). Overall I'm happy with it, I like the programmability with an ESP board and Home Assistant. (The Econet App that comes with it is pretty bad, so slow to update). Edit: I program mine to change temperature, dropping when nobody is home, and going back up to 140 before Solar drops off. I do 140 because, on the 50 gal model, I struggle to have enough hot water with a family of four. I wanted to get a larger capacity unit, but the ledge in my garage wasn't big enough where the tank goes.
Well that begs the question....why did you even buy it if you're not going to use it the way it was presented, as a heat pump water heater?
@@JM-yx1lm I figured someone would ask that, it's a good question: It wasn't that expensive, and I got a good rebate from the transmission/distribution company (and the tax credit too). I've got prohibitively expensive electric rates on-peak, but great rates off peak. With my Solar, it gives me flexibility during cloudy days to run cheaply during peak using the heatpump. I was already budgeting extra for wiring electric (I am getting rid of all gas in the house) so I just went with it. And lastly, I liked the idea of it cooling my garage which gets so hot and I can run heatpump then. Will it break even? Maybe, maybe not. A bit of an experiment for me, seeing how I can integrate with HA and automate around sunny/cloudy and having it switch operating modes. I play around with the different modes during different seasons to see if I can save money. Edit: Also I would run eco mode at night, but it's so loud being in the garage next to a living space. I wasn't sure how that would be going in. Now I know about that.
Excellent and well rounded presentation. Thank you. If I only had electric in my home as an option, I would consider one. However, I have a gas water heater now and the unit itself is about 1/3 the cost of a heat pump model and my monthly operating costs are actually lower than with electric (heat pump or otherwise). I think the big concern for me is the repair cost and failure rates as the heat pump models as they get to be 8, 10, 12 years old. Folks are used to going 15, 20 even 30 years with virtually no repairs on standard gas/electric units and that just wont be the case for heat pump or tank-less models.
I have the AO Smith version and it has been working fine for the last 5 years sitting happily in the garage. It was part of the deal when I had my grid-tie solar installed in my home. However I did install a Corro-Protec powered anode due municipal water supply is just below the borderline of not needing additional water conditioning and a full opening port boiler drain valve to replace the crappy OEM drain valve. Just one of the few maintenance items checked off the list for the life of the water heater.
Besides draining out 10 gallons from the bottom of the tank quarterly and blowing out the dust bunnies once a year with shop air is about it. I did find out that it is quite generator friendly when I lost power for 8 days when Hurricane Milton blew through town. Even having 3 extra people stopping by per day for hot showers and laundry gave it a good workout, but it handled it fairly well overall.
I have an 80 gallon rheem that replaced a 50 gallon all electric. We have a big tub that takes 50-60 gallons to fill so we went big. I went the mixing valve route and run the tank at 140 then mix to 120. It's not really any different than the mixing happening at the shower and tub valves but it makes me feel better that the scald risk is gone. Electricity usage of the water heater went from $40 a month to $15. My payback period will be incredibly short. Local rebates made it a no brainer. For the ones worried about the heat pump failures and not having hot water, you can run it in resistance only mode from what I can tell. Do be prepared for the weight of these things, mines like 260? I've already convinced a few others to switch after seeing the benefits.
Interesting, do you find it consumes a lot of extra power to get to 140? Ie less efficient than power required to heat it to 120? That's another reason I haven't installed the mixing valve. Maybe I should just do it and see how it works... And yes, mine is heavy as ... also, took 2 people to stand it up from laying down.
@LithiumSolar I really don't know how much less efficient it is, I haven't done any testing yet. I track it with emporia but I know the econet app can track too. I want to try some lower temps to see how efficient I can get it I just haven't yet.
Solid review. Well done! Appreciate it! Hard no on the 68 degree showers unless you're going full pioneer days. :D
I have the same unit with a mixing valve and it works well. The heat pump function is not great and if you monitor the temps it can't keep up with a family of 4 on its own. I run mine in electric mode 90% of the time. The power company in my area gave me a 50% credit for the heater so I gave it a try.
Thanks for the in depth feedback...
I just put a 65 gallon one in my phoenix garage about 6 months ago. there isnt anything wrong with cooling off my garage. im about 470kwh worth of electricity over the last 6 months. I am looking forward to my 1 year mark to see how much electricity it uses.
Hi - Great video as usual.
Apparently Rheem (maybe others?) do make a version of the heat pump water heater that is made to plug into a standard 120 VAC outlet - Home Depot has them - "ProTerra 50 Gal. 120-Volt Plug-in Smart Heat Pump Water Heater with Leak Detection and Auto Shutoff and 10-Year Warranty"
They are more expensive and I suppose have a lower recovery rate.
Great Video! Thanks! Didn't know these existed...
I have an external compressor heatpump unit and an internal system of two large isolated vats. One vat is to balance the underfloor heating system and it barely goes over 24c or so (very efficient). The other is the hot water supply and it's mostly around 45 to 55c. It does a weekly cycle where it heats the vat to 60 ~ 65c to get rid of any chance of legionella. The system is strong enough to supply 400+ liters of hot water and it can supply in realtime should the system be empty. It also have an external electrical coil that can add heat if needed (COP of 1, very inefficient but nice as backup). The external heatpump and main control unit are from NIBE, works great for me.
I love mine Rheem hybrid. The newest AO Smith models are nice also.
Six years with mine it is awesome, $6 of electricity per month.
Plenty of hot water.
I installed the 80 gallon version in the Fall of 2021 and have had a similar great experience. Only complaint is that the EcoNet module went offline after a few months and I’ve never been able to get it working again. I call Rheem and they blame it on my ISP or my router settings but don’t offer specifics. I’ve tried tethering to my home as well without any luck.
How often do you change the sacrificial anode rod?
I bet it is no louder than my existing 90+% efficient water heater and air handler, which is in the center of my finished basement with living space on both sides. It has a 130K BTU-H burner and a 45 gallon tank so I use a lot more BTUs than that little heat pump can provide because it also heats my house.
I set the water heater at 145F in the summer and it runs the burner +/-10F from that point, 150F right now, and if winter gets colder I'll bump it higher. I have an electric plumbed in series before the gas water heater. If 180F on the gas water heater is not hot enough then I turn on the electric. And yes, I have a mixing valve that feeds the house. Legionnaire's is a thing, so I want my water heater to get above 140F fairly often. That alone is not sufficient, but every little bit helps. Other countries are now requiring the water heater to periodically heat hot enough to kill legionella, and we should as well.
Almost installed one a few years ago... But it was a small enclosed "stock room" and wasn't too sure on heat exchange and clearances... Plus had to replace the old one pronto... Went with a rheem with plastic tank but not a heat pump... Still quite interesting for the next one.
My power company paid me $1000, which was half the cost!
Holy crap!!! And I thought $400 was good...
I have had one for 2 years and I think it’s a great idea but it has a long way to go to be a better product
I have had humorous issues with it freezing up. And I’ve had to fix diagnose and replace parts on this with rheems help I’m not trying to talk down about most home owners, but I do have an electrical background and multimeters and have had to do some testing on this that I don’t know if most people are up to
I started having problems about 11 months and they only cover sending a tech out until 12 months or one year so they would not help me. I replaced the thermostat on this unit three times I believe now. And they send you new parts but you have to install them or have them installed
I’m using this unit to heat my hot water but also to cool my solar room since I have my Solar room in the basement where my woodstove at so this works well for that application but I would not buy another one of these units considering the price of them After the rebate
I run my house 3/4 of the time with Solar and a battery back up
In my house it’s me and my 2 girls and this thing seems like it barely ever shuts off
Thumbs up 👍 good follow-up. And information
don't have one yet but it's on the shortllist, to replace a ~10yr old gas unit. looking at getting the 120v heat pump-only version, my panel is full and i'd rather avoid running an additional 230v circuit anyway...
thanks for the video. love the deadpan annoyance at all the keyboard warriors
Thanks for the info.
How would you characterize the noise when compared to a gas water heater with a power vent?
They have a 120 volt heat pump water heater now, that uses standard receptacle
Wow, you're right! They do have a 120V plug-in version now. That seems like a terrible idea, but who am I to decide that I guess lol. I am not an electrician or an engineer.
I have the 120 volt unit, 50 gal. It works fine for my wife and I. When we have had guests, it hasn't run out of hot water. So, after a year of use I have no complaints. Oh, it doesn't have a heating element only the heat pump.
@@LithiumSolar They have 120v air conditioners. I can't imagine the BTU exchange of an AC unit would be less than the water heater. Especially if it's only using ~80kWh/mo. Window AC units use about 5-10kWh/day. I'd imagine the 120v units don't have a quick resistive heat recovery mode which requires a pretty hefty wiring connection (basically the same as a regular electric water heater). 80kWh/month is ~ 2.5kWh per day, or at 120v running 24x7 less than 1 amp at 120v. Not as much as most people think. Say it runs 50% of the time, then you're only talking less than 2 amps for 12 hrs a day.
My question was (at least I thought I asked it) what the temperature is of the exhaust air the reason is my garage is next to my furnace room where I would locate the hybrid heater so input air would be say 70f and I want to exhaust into my unheated garage and if the air is not to cold it could be a heat source in winter for my garage. Sounds weird right lol. Thanks for the video
I stuck a thermometer to mine to test, intake is 67F and output is 51F. I'm not sure how effective that will be for "heating" a garage lol.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks 51 is better than freezing so it could work a little depending on how much hot water we use.
What's your solar array size at the moment?
Somewhere around 9 kW.
I set ours at 120 at first but our water came out smelling like sulfur. I upped it to 140 and that stopped the bad smell. 140 also gives us more hot water capacity.
I feel your pain with all the armchair experts. Anything that saves a lot of money gets attacked by people who are paying more. I would be interested to know how much better this heat pump model is compared to a regular electric water heater. Either percentage-wise, or how much money per year (if both ran from grid power). Are we talking about saving 10%, 50%, 75%?
The energy label on this one states 866 kWh/year and the label on the electric heater I replaced was 4622 kWh/year. Obviously it's entirely dependent on your usage. Both have a first-hour rating of 67 gallons. The old heater is long-gone but the labels were shown at 2:00 in the first video. If I had to make an armchair guess based on my obsessive power statistics watching, I'd place it around 1/3rd the power of the old electric tank.
It would be nice if you said how many gallons of water were used. Your use case is much different than others, and the only way to tell how efficient it is is to say how many kWh per gallon is used. Also, 130 is the ideal temperature for water; 120 is used to hit the target energy savings numbers, but most post-install units I have seen are at 130.
It's a typical family of 4's amount of water. I don't use hot water for laundry really, so maybe a little less than a typical family's usage.
@@LithiumSolar should have said it would be nice if these units could calculate how many gallons they process.. My On-Demand unit does that, It is kinda nice to make sure it is performing as it should.
We had a Rheem heat pump hot water system on our newly built house as it was a BASIX sustainability requirement!
It broke down 5 times in 12 months! The repair man kept replacing electronic PCBs. It was ridiculously complicated when all you required it to do is boil water.
The other thing they don't tell you is it will not work under 3 degrees C as it requires a higher temperature for the refrigerant to do its thing, remembering that's what it basically is doing is using a compressor to boil the water.
After being let down multiple more times and waiting for the technician to once again repair it, I had enough and got a plumber out to replace it with a dual element 450 litre and took the heat pump to the dump still under warranty! It was awesome to have reliable hot water regardless of the outside temperature! When the technician arrived I told him if he wants to fix it it's at the dump! He said I don't blame you!
What do you get clean in a seven minute shower?!
You dont.. That is why these would never work for me.. How do you fill a tub for the kids and have enough water for two adults to shower... On-demand units are where it is at unless you have the money to buy 2 or 3 of these hot water heaters..
I can't even imagine spending more than 7 minutes. Although that is the advantage of being bald. Turn on the water, maybe 2 minutes to soap up and 2 minutes to rinse.
I'll be honest, I never actually timed my showers but it seems like it would be more than 7 minutes. Also, there are nights when we do 2 kid baths, then 2 adult showers back to back and there is still hot water at the end of the last shower. There is a slight decrease in temperature by that point but you would hardly notice it unless you're purposely looking for it.
I feel like we're getting in to aspects of how one bathes here vs use of the water heater 😂
They have 120v models now. A standard plug.
99% of residential hot water heaters are installed outside in Australia. My heat pump is outside and appropriately IP rated.
I do remember seeing this when I visited a few years back. My understanding is it was because typical houses in Australia don't have basements? Ours are not designed for outdoor use.
I installed a Rheeme 50gal hybrid (heat-pump) in 2019 and agree with all you're saying. Mine is under my house with ranges from 55F in dead winter and 75F in dead summer and still works very well. We run ~1900kwh/year which is ~$285/year = $24/month but we run in cold ambient temp in winter (55F) which causes it to use 50% more power compared to 75F ambient summer. I set mine at 125F, run in heat-pump only mode (max of 400w) all the time which is easy on the off-grid inverters. When it runs out (say washing 2 loads + some showers) it's a gradual (over 10min) lowering of temp the same as any water heater and you can hurry up and finish the shower. It takes maybe 2-3hrs to fully recover if you run all the way out. Also, the Rheeme has full 'regular' 4,500w electric heating elements and you can switch to high demand mode if say you had visitors for Christmas for a week and had hi demand. For us, its very quiet. I get 'clear filter' warnings every other year and I just rest because the filter is never dirty but still - I'd install somewhere with easy access. One key difference with heat-pump is, like an air conditioner you have to run a humidity/condensate line somewhere where the drips of water can drain... I ran mine thru the wall to the outside and there are other options.
My resistive water heater is literally two feet away from my main bedroom. Sorry, no chance in hell it will ever be a monolithic heat pump. Maybe if they do a remote compressor, combine with the condo HVAC…
Yeah that's a definite no !
heat pump works exactly like an a/c and consists of only 5 components, there is no moving parts besides compressor and fan, which is supposed to run for years. heat pump should have a reliability of a fridge
160F = excellent way to destroy pipes and gaskets.
And your flesh if you're not paying attention
Considering that US residential DHW systems are specified with 140 F thermal protection valves. 160 F would cause a thermal release event.
Not worth it. My Bosch instant Nat gas heater uses less than 5 therms/mo to run. It's been running flawlessly for the last 18 years.
I'd rather take the $ and install a 3k gallon water tank and pump. Water here is $100/mo.
Makes sense if you have public utilities (water, sewer, and gas).
@@LithiumSolar I have propane, and running an on-demand unit is still cheaper for how many gallons we use and how long of showers we take..
Nice work.
Lemme see if I follow you: No one can convince you to set your water temp higher than the government _suggested_ point.
WHY??!?
It's set to 123F, that IS higher. If I ever install that mixing valve that's been sitting in the box for 2 years, I'll up it to 130F. But I'm not interested in my family being scalded by accident.
@@LithiumSolar If you are running newer fixtures they have scald valves built in.