And one way of taking advantage of USA's perks in terms of technology is using the goodwill shop and a method to bring your purchases home hahaha I have bought computers that go for hundreds of dollars in my country (400 usd+) for less than 50 counting the shipping
I just checked it, the 256gb SSD + 1tb HD + 32gb ram config of this same workstation starts at about $850 dollars in Brazil... Which is insane. For the same price you can build a somewhat modern AM4 ryzen 7 build with a 3060 and it's going to destroy that workstation in price to performance. The only features you'd missing would be a lot of memory and pcie lanes.
I don't think it's the USA that's pricing it cheaply, it's the other countries used market overpricing it grossly . He showed a comparison with the $250 3950X, and that one destroyed the upgraded server in terms of performance. If someone is selling this system at $500 dollars they are just insane and out of touch.
I live in Denmark close to many of the recyclers, big offices and datacentres. There are lots of deals close by - I can even message some of the sellers and ask for oddball stuff and half the time they'll hook me up. AliExpress is still my go-to for CPUs to max out systems though..
The important part here is that Quad-Channel DDR4 is comparable to modern dual-channel DDR5. Everybody running one of these old workstations with just two sticks is really missing out on half the performance. There are a bunch of oddities to a Z440 that often get overlooked unless you sit down and pour through the manuals... Such as the top USB 3 port on the front is an always powered charging port. Or how the SATA controller supports a bunch of extra RAID types. The PCIe slots run directly off the CPU lanes and not through the chipset... You can do stuff like directly pass through a second GPU to a secondary VM for video rendering, and never impact your main instance. You can throw a 5x 3.5" HDD bay adaper in those front 5.25" bays to run a NAS, also possible in a VM with all those extra cores. I could go on all day about the features of how these old machines can still be used.
Yeah I decided to cut a few things out of the scripts, such as the hardware RAID support. Also, slight correction, but the Gen3 PCIe slots are all via the CPU, but the Gen 2 slots are through the chipset.
Too bad Z440 are so unreliable. A company I support uses them for onscreen graphics rendering during sports broadcasting and all of the motherboards in their Z440s are dying. I have had to replace motherboards in all 30 of their fleet and some of them have come back to me multiple times for motherboard replacement. My contact at the company says he knows another company that have also had issues with their entire fleet of Z440s. Would avoid these machines unless you are getting them for free.
I tested this about 6 years ago with a thinkstation and pretty much maxed it out. Put it up against my ryzen system that was current at the time and it crushed the thinkstation in every metric including price. Also i had an upgrade path. After that I have stayed away from the old workstations and funnily enough now run my entire office setup off a legion go. I do have a small 12u rack in my garage with a couple servers but have been looking to minaturize lately. I liked the 10" rack video you did because it got me thinking about going to mini itx for my nas/plex/assistant/etc server and getting the unify cloud gateway max to replace my udm pro and it would fit in a 10". Then I could move it back into my office and not have to worry about cooling in the summer. Also i can 3D print the entire 10" rack and accessories! Great video!
Similar to what Pasi said, the draw for these has much more to do with RAM capacity (and ECC), PCIe lanes, and features like bifurcation. Often times even if those are possible on something like Ryzen, it's tough to find affordable motherboards that support it all.
@@seaSwann ive used laptops as servers before. a computer is a computer. yes there are reasons to use servers, i knoe you dont need to yell at me but there are many cases where you dont really need to.
i just wanted to shout-out how well-paced and edited this video is!! you’ve been doing such a wonderful job growing this channel and expanding your brand, allowing humor to shine!! really happy to be a subscriber of this channel :)
I used to run a bunch of these Xeon E5 rigs in my lab, and for a while my main desktop was a dual 2680v2. Then I had my mid-life crisis and built a Threadripper 3970x which blew my mind. The Xeons lived on in my homelab for a few more years but I eventually replaced them with 1st gen Epycs - less power/heat/noise overall and plenty of PCIe oomph to play with 100GbE networking. These days with Minisforum/Kamrui and other mini PCs, as long as you don't need PCIe, those tiny boxes run circles around the pre-"Scalable" Xeons.
I own this very computer and i love it. I purchased my Z440 off FB market place for $50 with a broke motherboard. replaced the motherboard and stuffed it full of memory. its been a great PC. Excellent video.
The Z4's are a gen newer and significantly more powerful. I have both a 440 and a z4 G4, these days only the Z4 G4 is really worth the effort. You can get a stock 1000 watt supply for the Z4 with 8 pin PCIE connectors.
I think that's a really based hardware choice for an old system like that. Old stuff like this can still be useful, especially for those of us who like to tinker.
Man.. you are really pushing me toward a 3D printer. These kinds of projects are fun, and you have a great sense of humor about the challenges you run into. The hardest thing sometimes is finding those bits and pieces people throw away, the ability to print something compatible looks more attractive all the time.
Whew, glad y’all haven’t found out about the Xeon scalable ones. (I got a hp z6 G4 for $230 that came with a gpu, cpu, and ram) About 120$ worth of upgrades from a 8 core silver to a 20 core gold, and 6x 32GB sticks of ram. And it’s flying.
@@daymianhogue1634Z4 is the Skylake, Z6 is single CPU Xeon Scalable but upgradable to dual CPU, Z8 is true dual CPU Xeon Scalable with better cooling, PCIe, and storage options.
@@daymianhogue1634Z4 is the Skylake model, Z6 is single chip scalable upgradable to dual chip, and Z8 is native dual chip scalable with objectively better feature support.
@@daymianhogue1634 yes and no, first gen scalable is based on skylake, just like x99 was based on Haswell. So skylake, but with much more pcie lanes, more ram, higher core count. first gen scalable cpus were extreamly expensive when first released.
I'm picking up a Z840 from work this week. We replaced a few users "old" workstations so these are just sitting... I actually use one as a foot rest under my desk at work lol. Going to be WAY better then my i7-3770S Dell Vostro "server"
I run a Dell Precision 7910 as my main Server, which in 2016/17 was Dells high end Workstation. Its a beast in its own right, supports up to 1TB DDR4 ECC, Dual Procs (Dual E5-2680v4s) I plan on upgrading to the 2697v4 xeons and serverpartdeals are amazing, my 36TB storage capacity is like 95% filled so looking at getting a 12-24TB HDD added at Tax return time.
Many server NICs support SR-IOV. If you enable SR-IOV with let's say 4 virtual functions, you can pass each virtual function through to a VM and thus give it almost-hardware-level access to the NIC. It gets to make use of all the hardware-offloading capabilities the NIC has and does not depend on routing all of the traffic through the CPU like virtual bridges do. In addition to that for internal communications the virtual functions can often communicate much faster than the indicated NIC speed, so those VFs of a 10G NIC for example may be able to communicate with other VFs on the same NIC at up to 30GbE
As long as the PS is plugged in, it's supplying power to the board. Just not all the power. I always unplug when I work on them. I learned that the hard way when I let smoke out once.
This HP z440 is fantastic. I've used to have one back in 2018 up to 2022 until i decommissioned and built my actual Lenovo Mini Cluster. But, I wasn't fully decommissioned 😅. It's been upgraded, and it's working as a Linux main rig for a friend, fully loaded with a 3060 ti, 2TB NVME and 8TB Raid 1 Storage for Data. Long live z440
I run a Z400 and Z440, both maxed out on specs. I used them for my Plex Server and a Panasonic iPro VMS. Both are running Windows 11 smoothly. Excellent machines!
I have one of these for a test box for Proxmox and container things and I have gifted a family member with one with an Nvidia Quadro K5200 and its being used as a gaming PC with the boot disk an NVMe! never underestimate these workstations!
Timing is perfect I’ve just been doing something similar with this system. Stripped the board out and rebuilt it in a 4u server case was a bit of a pain and had similar challenges
I have 7 of these in the basement from some CAD company that shutdown. I just shelfed on the bifurcation issue or even getting just 1 nvme to work. You just gave me a weekend project thanks!
I just returned my Z440 for a Z840 upgrade, RAM speed decreases to 1866 MHz if you populate all 8 slots and also not a lot of room for expansion, one other problem is the left side RAM cooler pulls hot air from CPU exhaust but apart from that it's a crazy good machine, I got mine with 64gb RAM (8x8gb 2133mhz) and Intel Xeon E5 2698V4 for 280$ It's a really good starting point for someone looking to build a home server
Also one other thing is that update the BIOS, and install windows then download Intel chipset firmware installer which would update the firmware of the RAM controller and also the RAID controller
also got a z440 for 100$ recently and upgraded it to 2690 v4 + 64gb ECC DDR4 (for 80$ in total for CPU+memory) + 4xNVME + some HDDs on UNraid. It's simply a great server! running nearly silent as well.
Old computer hardware is honestly very much so under rated. I am running some servers from 2012 in the basement at the moment and all I can say is those Xeons are really quite good.
If you use a PCIe Riser Extension cable you can use any video card and FREE up a PCIe slot. Cloud and NAS Storage is Expensive. This is a Good Reliable option.
The serial on LAN in AMT is mapped to a specific tty in Linux from a virtual PCIe device, not the native ttyS0 or ttyS1 thus you must find that specific tty number in kernel messages, and enable Getty on that device. This will give you a serial console. If you want to see boot messages, you’ll also need to enable boot console on that serial device, too.
Haven't had a chance to watch the whole video yet, but you already have my "Like" - I did something quite similar with an older HP Z240 SFF. It came with an i7 7th-gen. I added 64GB RAM, 4x 2.5-inch 1TB SATA SSDs (using a dual-2.5-inch converter, and one of the SATA drives cable-tied internally), a 10GbE Asus NIC in the PCIe 3x4 slot, a dual NVME card with 2x 1TB NVMEs in the PCIe 3x16 slot, and single NVME cards with 1TB NVMEs in the two PCIe 3x1 slots. Used the on-board M.2 for the TrueNAS OS drive. So basically had 8x 1TB drives for storage. Installed TrueNAS Scale, created a single pool with 2 VDEVs. Each VDEV using half of each of the listed drives (2x SATA, one of the single PCIe NVME cards, one of the NVMEs from the dual PCIe NVME card) so that if I lost the entire dual NVME card it wouldn't cripple an entire VDEV) and ended up with a relatively low-power, nearly silent 10GbE NAS which could do 1GB/sec for days. Ended up replacing it with a Terramaster F8 SSD Plus as my primary NAS, but re-used the HP Z240 SFF again - it now has a low-profile GTX1650 card and is my gaming rig (works good enough for me) :)
Good to see some love for the old pre-Skylake stuff. I've found that even the old Sandy and Ivy Bridge are equally as capable as workstations (either single or dual socket platforms depending on your requirements). Price to performance on these old generations beats anything new, even a decade or more later. To be honest, I wouldn't even write off the old Nehalem/Westmere generation Xeons either. One thing that chaps my ass though is that bifurcation is fully documented and supported as early as Sandy bridge, but it just didn't make the cut for firmware options until the Haswell/Broadwell generation in most cases. Not sure what the thinking was there. It could have been a selling feature for the big OEMs on the server and workstation models. All in all though, the lest expensive way to put together a beefy machine on a budget.
I bought one of these in 2019 with 64GB RAM. Was running FreeBSD on it until this year, switched to SmartOS in the summer. Fun story: SmartOS's FMA reported to me that my processor had a failing MMU. Swapped in a 12 core processor for $12 and it's been great! But yeah, I hate the power costs. It's a hungry box. I learned some things today about the BIOS and this server, thanks!
If you enjoyed Z440 that much, take a look at Z840, or even Z8 G4, which are much more modular, and easy to work with. I do have both and use Z840 as home server and Z8 G4 as personal workstation, both of which are great machined with efficient cooling and upgrade options.
My main workstation is a Z440. I upgraded to an E5-2699 v3 w/128GB RAM (I have 256GB for it in a box, but haven't found myself needing the extra RAM) It has a GTX 960 for graphics. It boots off of a 1TB NVMe on a PCIE adapter, it has WIFI6 adapter. It has a pair of 4TB HDDs and a 256 SSD for scratch. I have 3 Blu-ray drives as well. I mainly use this system for ripping Blu-rays and DVDs. I also have a Blackmagic studio 4K card that I occasionally use (I don't leave it installed because it is noisy) for capturing HDMI/Analog video. I will be looking into replacement options next year due MS killing Windows 10 support.
ive had a z440 for a while now, got a z840 as well, there SOOOO cheap and SOOOO good for homelabs - and yea, we all know they cost a lot in electricity and arent all that fast for what you get - we know - and yet STILL probably the best deal for a homelab going, certainly for a starter homelab but id argue even a mature one
I'm still rocking my i7 5930K rig. Got 256GB RAM (got two kits of 128GB 3600MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB, only runs at 2133MHz though :/) and a GTX 1080 + 980 in there along with a Dell Perc H200 SAS HBA, a 2TB NVMe drive, and a ton of 3TB SAS drives in windows software raid. I run Server 2008 R2 (with ESUs) on there and it works great. These old Haswell-E/Broadwell-E systems are pretty impressive still. I'm using a gigabyte board btw. Also, worth noting that the 5930K only supports 64GB RAM, but 256GB seems to work perfectly fine, just had to turn down my overclock a little. If I was to build a system like this from scratch, I'd definitely use an OEM system like this. This machine has been my main workstation for the past year in its current state and has been rock solid stable, so nice to have that extra breathing room with all that RAM, even if it is a little overkill. I use it for video editing (Premiere Pro/After Effects) and 3d modelling (Maya), it's been pretty good, but will be looking for an upgrade.
This computer is the Best Deal on eBay if you need allot of Memory and Storage options. I have 100gb of Drives in mine running Dual NVME boot Windows-10 and Win-11. It is the Best computer I have ever owned. Rock Solid Stability and Reliability. It Never Crashes or Hangs. All Drivers install automatically. It’s Still Fully Supported by HP and Microsoft. I to used Refurbished hard drives and have had no problems. For a $120 Workstation you can’t beat it. HP Quality = Reliability. Nice Build you put together.
These types of machines are great for virtualization servers since they have capacity for tons of memory, cores and PCIe slots. You can basically run dozens and dozens of small services and never worry about running out of memory.
Great video, done much the same but with the Z840, that has 2 CPU, 2TB RAM support and the power supply will run a 4090 with some power adapters. There is also a sweet spot on the CPU last time I looked a 14 core Xeon is £50 or so. I have a bunch of these saved from the work E waste in various config states, the most live one has 2X14 Core CPU, 256GB RAM, 7X 16TB SAS drives (used an extra front bay) 4XNVME drives on a card and a RTX 2080. Running True NAS Scale on it and loving building the system each night in the few hours my kids allow
This video was recommended to me and I avoided it thinking "oh great more hardware I can't afford". Finally got around to it and a few days later I bought a z640 for $150 cad on marketplace. Love this thing. I was really struggling to find something that supported ECC at a reasonable price point.
those beeps reminded me of my pc. it happens to me either when: A: there is a RAM, CPU or BIOS error B: power cable was removed while the pc was running
I’ve had this idea with a z220 some years ago. I had at hand. In the end I’ve thought it was not worth the effort, but after watching your video I kind of regret I had not stick with it.
Just wanted to point out that HP actually over-spec those PCIe 6-pin cables. They can supply a lot more power than normal 6-pin connectors, and it is completely safe to use a high-quality 6-pin to 8-pin converter cable to be able to power more demanding cards. This is also true for the older Z420 workstation. Why does HP do this? Well, they tend to go for the overkill just to maximize stability, as these machines were designed to go into businesses. Why they didn't put in an 8-pin connector I can only speculate about, but my best guess would be that HP only cared about the officially supported cards that they sold with the system - which at the time would max out at som high-end Quadro card that likely needed 2x 6-pin's.
Halfway through the video I decided to see what prices they are here in the UK. Managed to buy one for £50 shipped ($63) with an E1620 v3 and 16gb. I also found a 16 core compatible CPU for £25 and 4 x 16gb for £18. I already have 3 Proxmox machines but two are mini or sff and can’t upgrade the graphics or hard drives easily so this will be great as a NAS and Plex server
Hello Hardware Haven, Just a recommendation to check out passive cooling ideas too, coz they would go nicely with the low power + reliable home labs!!!
Nice video ,thanks :) I Run a maxed out z420 as a home server because its a lot quieter than enterprise servers, Its thirsty on power compared to other options these days, and slow on ddr3. I have been planning to move to z440 for a while now as an upgrade, hopefully I will get to it soon.
Thanks for the very informative video. I really like your presentation style & little snippets of humor. You've definitely earned a like AND a subscribe! I did a quick check locally, and used, these units range in price from $250 to $2000, depending on spec level. Looking forward to learning more in your next one =)
Loving my Lenovo P520 for these exact reasons. I have 2 cheap ASUS NVME adapters in the x16 slots (4x4x4x4) and the 2 onboard NVME give me 10 NVME drives. Along with a Dual 10g ethernet making for a very good Proxmox W/TrueNAS box. Makes it hard to convince me to buy any of those purpose-built NAS solutions
Go ahead and put that ZOTAC RTX 3060 in there. The Delta PSUs for HP are modestly rated and the 3060 won't be an issue. I used to run a Sapphire Radeon HD4850 X2 (2 GPUs on one board) in an old HP XW 4400 that had only one 6-pin PCIE power connector. The PSU was rated for 460 watts. The card had one 6-pin and one 8-pin connector. I used a dual sata to 8-pin PCIE adapter for the 8-pin socket. It worked fine for years. It even handled Furmark. Although, Furmark in "extreme burn-in" mode would trip the PSU. No doubt it was the sata power rails being overloaded.
HP documentation is usually very helpful and includes parts numbers for different options. Downside is they often cost more than you paid for the machine. I recently ended up buying a 2nd machine for some of the optional stuff and immediately reselling it for the same price without said parts.
You can move the page file (virtual memory) to a different drive if the OS drive is too small as well, assuming you have the other drives are also SSDs
Sir, you videos are so informative. I wish to have at least a minimal (less complexity) of my own nas in future. very got me interested on all this network n storage stuffs. Merry xmas n a happy new year to u.
8gb is not terrible because it’s the standard minimum for a pc to work properly, 4gb is unacceptable and anything above 8gb is good. But 16gb for a personal pc, 32gb for gaming or work, and 64gb+ for workstations is the sweet spot right now
Watching this from a HP Z240, i7-6700, dual Quadro P2200 and 64GB of RAM, can comfortably say, if you need a really budget friendly workstation w/ decent RAM size, multi (non-6/8 pin) GPU support... This thing shreds. Been using it for about half a year as my Blender workstation with occassionally booting up VR. Not bad, except on Linux, 5GB of VRAM on Nvidia is a joke, with no shared memory feature. Good video HH. :)
You should purchase a consumer GPU with 12GB/16GB, they are far more capable than low to mid-end workstation cards :) The new 12GB Intel card looks pretty good and used AMD w/ 16GB and up can be found for cheap.
@@Rotwold I would like one, yeah! But there's, 2 issues. 1) financial mess. I won't, go in details ^^; 2) The PSU is 300w, no 6pin/8pin, I'd need to mod the case for a normal ATX PSU. :P
Projects like this are very interesting and fun to make...if there werent the high energy prizes. A Server like this would be more tham enough for a big home lab, but if it sucks 30+ Watts in idle...
@HardwareHaven Unlike other oems, the Z6 G4 supports QS cpus. So, you can put some, exotic CPUs in it that cost a arm and a leg for cheap. I have a QS W3235 in mine, works great FYI...
I have an old one of these systems sitting in my basement. I was in the process of upgrading it when my house got robbed. They ened up stealing the CPU and never got around to ordering a new one. This video is making me think I should finally get around to doing that.
headless with everything sans gpu about 100 watts at idle - totally acceptable - the vast swaths of ram slathered on this piece bring it to another level in terms of capabilities with trunas or web server or virt host box - an example of early consolidation, also hp older gear is generally great, easy to work on - solid content - do a followup on adding another ps and dual gpu for some llm ai local open source testing - i think that is next stage and with 3060 from 240 a pop relatively low barrier - with 24gb vram you should be able to run quite a few models
Can you add a software guide on how you have setup the router as a VM and also the true as scale as a VM, I am doing the exact same thing but like I mentioned in previous comments I am upgrading to HP Z840. Thanks
I picked up two of these for 200 euros each about a year ago, new e5-2697a v4 and storage and good to go, even came with 64gbs of ram, had to do some finnesing to get the nvme ssd on the pcie card to get to post reliable but that was easy enough by moving the bootloader to a sata drive and having it boot windows from the ssd
I'm running an older Z420 workstation as a daily driver. I've just ordered a 64GB(Ax8GB) ram upgrade kit. This is do to the fact that generation of motherboard in my particular Z420 is the first generation boot code wise and therein is restricted to a hard limit of 64GB of ram.
Very good video. Maybe I will repeat your project but change the box and power supply. The bigger case will hold more hard drives and I will be able to fit more fans. 😉
I have a Z600 that I used as an ESXI server for many years until the CPUs fell off the compatibility matrix. Replacing it was good for the power bill though
Hi! I'm thinking about replicating this build for myself (exactly how you have), but I have a few questions that I'd really appreciate for you to answer (if you have the time): - Could you if possible send a link to the drive adapter you used to replace the other bays? - What power supply did you use for this? What wattage would be required? I have an existing Jellyfin setup within Docker and I was wondering if you know how I'd convert that to be able to run within Proxmox while still retaining all my configs? Thank you so much! Your videos are amazing and always a treat to see :)
I use this PC as my 24/7 Unraid Home Server with almost the exact same components. Works great. I even ordered the JetKVM for it to control it remotely ;)
You can do some really cool stuff older workstations. Love working on these systems. The newer HP Z6 G4 Dual socket and Z8 G4 can be great homelab servers. The only bad thing about them would be Intel VROC and all the proprietary stuff. But VROC shouldn't be an issues for most people that want to run a homelab with proxmox or equivalent.
Im always amazed how cheap old hardware is in the USA. Here in sweden that server would start at $500 before the upgrades.
To be fair, I feel like there are plenty of perks in Sweden that I’m jealous of 😂
And one way of taking advantage of USA's perks in terms of technology is using the goodwill shop and a method to bring your purchases home hahaha I have bought computers that go for hundreds of dollars in my country (400 usd+) for less than 50 counting the shipping
I just checked it, the 256gb SSD + 1tb HD + 32gb ram config of this same workstation starts at about $850 dollars in Brazil... Which is insane. For the same price you can build a somewhat modern AM4 ryzen 7 build with a 3060 and it's going to destroy that workstation in price to performance. The only features you'd missing would be a lot of memory and pcie lanes.
I don't think it's the USA that's pricing it cheaply, it's the other countries used market overpricing it grossly . He showed a comparison with the $250 3950X, and that one destroyed the upgraded server in terms of performance. If someone is selling this system at $500 dollars they are just insane and out of touch.
I live in Denmark close to many of the recyclers, big offices and datacentres. There are lots of deals close by - I can even message some of the sellers and ask for oddball stuff and half the time they'll hook me up. AliExpress is still my go-to for CPUs to max out systems though..
The important part here is that Quad-Channel DDR4 is comparable to modern dual-channel DDR5.
Everybody running one of these old workstations with just two sticks is really missing out on half the performance.
There are a bunch of oddities to a Z440 that often get overlooked unless you sit down and pour through the manuals...
Such as the top USB 3 port on the front is an always powered charging port. Or how the SATA controller supports a bunch of extra RAID types.
The PCIe slots run directly off the CPU lanes and not through the chipset... You can do stuff like directly pass through a second GPU to a secondary VM for video rendering, and never impact your main instance.
You can throw a 5x 3.5" HDD bay adaper in those front 5.25" bays to run a NAS, also possible in a VM with all those extra cores.
I could go on all day about the features of how these old machines can still be used.
Yeah I decided to cut a few things out of the scripts, such as the hardware RAID support. Also, slight correction, but the Gen3 PCIe slots are all via the CPU, but the Gen 2 slots are through the chipset.
@@HardwareHaven
True... But point is, you can get two GPU's in the x16 slots and still manage to stuff a couple NVMe's in the x8 slot between them.
Try old Server. 140€ HP G9 with 24 x 32gb Sticks 😉
Too bad Z440 are so unreliable. A company I support uses them for onscreen graphics rendering during sports broadcasting and all of the motherboards in their Z440s are dying. I have had to replace motherboards in all 30 of their fleet and some of them have come back to me multiple times for motherboard replacement. My contact at the company says he knows another company that have also had issues with their entire fleet of Z440s. Would avoid these machines unless you are getting them for free.
WOW, I never knew any of that.
I tested this about 6 years ago with a thinkstation and pretty much maxed it out. Put it up against my ryzen system that was current at the time and it crushed the thinkstation in every metric including price. Also i had an upgrade path. After that I have stayed away from the old workstations and funnily enough now run my entire office setup off a legion go. I do have a small 12u rack in my garage with a couple servers but have been looking to minaturize lately. I liked the 10" rack video you did because it got me thinking about going to mini itx for my nas/plex/assistant/etc server and getting the unify cloud gateway max to replace my udm pro and it would fit in a 10". Then I could move it back into my office and not have to worry about cooling in the summer. Also i can 3D print the entire 10" rack and accessories! Great video!
The main thing with the workstations is the high amount of PCIe lanes
Similar to what Pasi said, the draw for these has much more to do with RAM capacity (and ECC), PCIe lanes, and features like bifurcation. Often times even if those are possible on something like Ryzen, it's tough to find affordable motherboards that support it all.
Did you seriously just say your main server is running off the handheld gaming device Legion Go?
@@seaSwann ive used laptops as servers before.
a computer is a computer.
yes there are reasons to use servers, i knoe you dont need to yell at me but there are many cases where you dont really need to.
@@seaSwannno, you misread his comment. He uses the legion go as his desktop PC, his servers live in the garage.
Oh the balancing act of workload density on used enterprise equipment vs the power consumption.
i just wanted to shout-out how well-paced and edited this video is!! you’ve been doing such a wonderful job growing this channel and expanding your brand, allowing humor to shine!! really happy to be a subscriber of this channel :)
I used to run a bunch of these Xeon E5 rigs in my lab, and for a while my main desktop was a dual 2680v2. Then I had my mid-life crisis and built a Threadripper 3970x which blew my mind. The Xeons lived on in my homelab for a few more years but I eventually replaced them with 1st gen Epycs - less power/heat/noise overall and plenty of PCIe oomph to play with 100GbE networking. These days with Minisforum/Kamrui and other mini PCs, as long as you don't need PCIe, those tiny boxes run circles around the pre-"Scalable" Xeons.
I'm assuming you didn't JUST run V2s. But if so, it's important to note that there's a MASSIVE different between ivy bridge and broadwell haha
I own this very computer and i love it. I purchased my Z440 off FB market place for $50 with a broke motherboard. replaced the motherboard and stuffed it full of memory. its been a great PC. Excellent video.
Ah, so the motherboard was finacially broke, ey? :) Sorry, could not resist.
I've worked with the Z4 G4 version of these systems and they're really nice. Great to see you working with this older HP Hardware!
The Z4's are a gen newer and significantly more powerful. I have both a 440 and a z4 G4, these days only the Z4 G4 is really worth the effort. You can get a stock 1000 watt supply for the Z4 with 8 pin PCIE connectors.
I think that's a really based hardware choice for an old system like that. Old stuff like this can still be useful, especially for those of us who like to tinker.
About 1.5 years ago, I picked up a Z840 for exactly this. It is my primary home server.
Man.. you are really pushing me toward a 3D printer. These kinds of projects are fun, and you have a great sense of humor about the challenges you run into. The hardest thing sometimes is finding those bits and pieces people throw away, the ability to print something compatible looks more attractive all the time.
....do it.
Yep I'm strongly thinking a BambuLabs. They do have good small ones. But think I'm going for the big expensive one
@@mrmotofy get the prusa core one, its open source and has the same features
It's always fun to see new life breathed into older systems like this. Thanks so much!
Whew, glad y’all haven’t found out about the Xeon scalable ones.
(I got a hp z6 G4 for $230 that came with a gpu, cpu, and ram)
About 120$ worth of upgrades from a 8 core silver to a 20 core gold, and 6x 32GB sticks of ram. And it’s flying.
It's on my list... just wait haha
Isn't the Z6G4 just Skylake (which is only 1 gen newer than the v4 chips in this video, and still 14nm) ? Or is there something else im missing?
@@daymianhogue1634Z4 is the Skylake, Z6 is single CPU Xeon Scalable but upgradable to dual CPU, Z8 is true dual CPU Xeon Scalable with better cooling, PCIe, and storage options.
@@daymianhogue1634Z4 is the Skylake model, Z6 is single chip scalable upgradable to dual chip, and Z8 is native dual chip scalable with objectively better feature support.
@@daymianhogue1634 yes and no, first gen scalable is based on skylake, just like x99 was based on Haswell. So skylake, but with much more pcie lanes, more ram, higher core count. first gen scalable cpus were extreamly expensive when first released.
I'm picking up a Z840 from work this week. We replaced a few users "old" workstations so these are just sitting... I actually use one as a foot rest under my desk at work lol. Going to be WAY better then my i7-3770S Dell Vostro "server"
I run a Dell Precision 7910 as my main Server, which in 2016/17 was Dells high end Workstation. Its a beast in its own right, supports up to 1TB DDR4 ECC, Dual Procs (Dual E5-2680v4s) I plan on upgrading to the 2697v4 xeons and serverpartdeals are amazing, my 36TB storage capacity is like 95% filled so looking at getting a 12-24TB HDD added at Tax return time.
I really like the intro shot when you shut the side panel and the intro theme played. I also really like the theme, so that also helps xD
Many server NICs support SR-IOV. If you enable SR-IOV with let's say 4 virtual functions, you can pass each virtual function through to a VM and thus give it almost-hardware-level access to the NIC. It gets to make use of all the hardware-offloading capabilities the NIC has and does not depend on routing all of the traffic through the CPU like virtual bridges do. In addition to that for internal communications the virtual functions can often communicate much faster than the indicated NIC speed, so those VFs of a 10G NIC for example may be able to communicate with other VFs on the same NIC at up to 30GbE
You always put an interesting spin on videos, even those that may have been done before by other creators. As always, very worth the watch.
As long as the PS is plugged in, it's supplying power to the board. Just not all the power. I always unplug when I work on them. I learned that the hard way when I let smoke out once.
HP has technical reference and service manuals that have a lot of useful information. Helped me a lot in the past.
Great video!
This HP z440 is fantastic. I've used to have one back in 2018 up to 2022 until i decommissioned and built my actual Lenovo Mini Cluster.
But, I wasn't fully decommissioned 😅.
It's been upgraded, and it's working as a Linux main rig for a friend, fully loaded with a 3060 ti, 2TB NVME and 8TB Raid 1 Storage for Data.
Long live z440
I run a Z400 and Z440, both maxed out on specs. I used them for my Plex Server and a Panasonic iPro VMS. Both are running Windows 11 smoothly.
Excellent machines!
I have one of these for a test box for Proxmox and container things and I have gifted a family member with one with an Nvidia Quadro K5200 and its being used as a gaming PC with the boot disk an NVMe! never underestimate these workstations!
Timing is perfect I’ve just been doing something similar with this system. Stripped the board out and rebuilt it in a 4u server case was a bit of a pain and had similar challenges
My favorite type of content on your channel: vintage hardware upgraded and customized 😊
I have 7 of these in the basement from some CAD company that shutdown. I just shelfed on the bifurcation issue or even getting just 1 nvme to work. You just gave me a weekend project thanks!
I just returned my Z440 for a Z840 upgrade, RAM speed decreases to 1866 MHz if you populate all 8 slots and also not a lot of room for expansion, one other problem is the left side RAM cooler pulls hot air from CPU exhaust but apart from that it's a crazy good machine, I got mine with 64gb RAM (8x8gb 2133mhz) and Intel Xeon E5 2698V4 for 280$
It's a really good starting point for someone looking to build a home server
Also one other thing is that update the BIOS, and install windows then download Intel chipset firmware installer which would update the firmware of the RAM controller and also the RAID controller
also got a z440 for 100$ recently and upgraded it to 2690 v4 + 64gb ECC DDR4 (for 80$ in total for CPU+memory) + 4xNVME + some HDDs on UNraid. It's simply a great server! running nearly silent as well.
Old computer hardware is honestly very much so under rated.
I am running some servers from 2012 in the basement at the moment and all I can say is those Xeons are really quite good.
If you use a PCIe Riser Extension cable you can use any video card and FREE up a PCIe slot. Cloud and NAS Storage is Expensive. This is a Good Reliable option.
I’m impressed. Awesome to watch older hardware become new.
The serial on LAN in AMT is mapped to a specific tty in Linux from a virtual PCIe device, not the native ttyS0 or ttyS1 thus you must find that specific tty number in kernel messages, and enable Getty on that device. This will give you a serial console. If you want to see boot messages, you’ll also need to enable boot console on that serial device, too.
The headless option was in the previous bios. :P
Thank you for letting us see your excellent work. An amazing system.
Thanks!
Haven't had a chance to watch the whole video yet, but you already have my "Like" - I did something quite similar with an older HP Z240 SFF. It came with an i7 7th-gen. I added 64GB RAM, 4x 2.5-inch 1TB SATA SSDs (using a dual-2.5-inch converter, and one of the SATA drives cable-tied internally), a 10GbE Asus NIC in the PCIe 3x4 slot, a dual NVME card with 2x 1TB NVMEs in the PCIe 3x16 slot, and single NVME cards with 1TB NVMEs in the two PCIe 3x1 slots. Used the on-board M.2 for the TrueNAS OS drive. So basically had 8x 1TB drives for storage. Installed TrueNAS Scale, created a single pool with 2 VDEVs. Each VDEV using half of each of the listed drives (2x SATA, one of the single PCIe NVME cards, one of the NVMEs from the dual PCIe NVME card) so that if I lost the entire dual NVME card it wouldn't cripple an entire VDEV) and ended up with a relatively low-power, nearly silent 10GbE NAS which could do 1GB/sec for days. Ended up replacing it with a Terramaster F8 SSD Plus as my primary NAS, but re-used the HP Z240 SFF again - it now has a low-profile GTX1650 card and is my gaming rig (works good enough for me) :)
0:17 That beeping made me think my alarm clock went off...
12:17 Sounds exactly like it!
In my opinion, this is one of the best and most usefull video you have ever made. Well done.
Good to see some love for the old pre-Skylake stuff. I've found that even the old Sandy and Ivy Bridge are equally as capable as workstations (either single or dual socket platforms depending on your requirements). Price to performance on these old generations beats anything new, even a decade or more later. To be honest, I wouldn't even write off the old Nehalem/Westmere generation Xeons either. One thing that chaps my ass though is that bifurcation is fully documented and supported as early as Sandy bridge, but it just didn't make the cut for firmware options until the Haswell/Broadwell generation in most cases. Not sure what the thinking was there. It could have been a selling feature for the big OEMs on the server and workstation models. All in all though, the lest expensive way to put together a beefy machine on a budget.
I bought one of these in 2019 with 64GB RAM. Was running FreeBSD on it until this year, switched to SmartOS in the summer. Fun story: SmartOS's FMA reported to me that my processor had a failing MMU. Swapped in a 12 core processor for $12 and it's been great! But yeah, I hate the power costs. It's a hungry box. I learned some things today about the BIOS and this server, thanks!
If you enjoyed Z440 that much, take a look at Z840, or even Z8 G4, which are much more modular, and easy to work with. I do have both and use Z840 as home server and Z8 G4 as personal workstation, both of which are great machined with efficient cooling and upgrade options.
My main workstation is a Z440. I upgraded to an E5-2699 v3 w/128GB RAM (I have 256GB for it in a box, but haven't found myself needing the extra RAM) It has a GTX 960 for graphics. It boots off of a 1TB NVMe on a PCIE adapter, it has WIFI6 adapter. It has a pair of 4TB HDDs and a 256 SSD for scratch. I have 3 Blu-ray drives as well. I mainly use this system for ripping Blu-rays and DVDs. I also have a Blackmagic studio 4K card that I occasionally use (I don't leave it installed because it is noisy) for capturing HDMI/Analog video. I will be looking into replacement options next year due MS killing Windows 10 support.
ive had a z440 for a while now, got a z840 as well, there SOOOO cheap and SOOOO good for homelabs - and yea, we all know they cost a lot in electricity and arent all that fast for what you get - we know - and yet STILL probably the best deal for a homelab going, certainly for a starter homelab but id argue even a mature one
I use that Z440 every day as a workstation and it ist been a beast.
I'm still rocking my i7 5930K rig. Got 256GB RAM (got two kits of 128GB 3600MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB, only runs at 2133MHz though :/) and a GTX 1080 + 980 in there along with a Dell Perc H200 SAS HBA, a 2TB NVMe drive, and a ton of 3TB SAS drives in windows software raid. I run Server 2008 R2 (with ESUs) on there and it works great. These old Haswell-E/Broadwell-E systems are pretty impressive still. I'm using a gigabyte board btw.
Also, worth noting that the 5930K only supports 64GB RAM, but 256GB seems to work perfectly fine, just had to turn down my overclock a little. If I was to build a system like this from scratch, I'd definitely use an OEM system like this.
This machine has been my main workstation for the past year in its current state and has been rock solid stable, so nice to have that extra breathing room with all that RAM, even if it is a little overkill. I use it for video editing (Premiere Pro/After Effects) and 3d modelling (Maya), it's been pretty good, but will be looking for an upgrade.
This computer is the Best Deal on eBay if you need allot of Memory and Storage options. I have 100gb of Drives in mine running Dual NVME boot Windows-10 and Win-11. It is the Best computer I have ever owned. Rock Solid Stability and Reliability.
It Never Crashes or Hangs. All Drivers install automatically. It’s Still Fully Supported by HP and Microsoft.
I to used Refurbished hard drives and have had no problems.
For a $120 Workstation you can’t beat it.
HP Quality = Reliability.
Nice Build you put together.
I really like the hardware combinations you use for these systems. Very reasonable compromises for the approachable price!
6:44 b-o-m-b has been planted lol
I use a HP z420 as my home computer. Has been rock solid unit.
These types of machines are great for virtualization servers since they have capacity for tons of memory, cores and PCIe slots. You can basically run dozens and dozens of small services and never worry about running out of memory.
The other good reason to have a GPU with PVE is that you can enable VirtGL and offload to the GPU w/o having to do passthru and dedicate it to a VM
Great video, done much the same but with the Z840, that has 2 CPU, 2TB RAM support and the power supply will run a 4090 with some power adapters. There is also a sweet spot on the CPU last time I looked a 14 core Xeon is £50 or so. I have a bunch of these saved from the work E waste in various config states, the most live one has 2X14 Core CPU, 256GB RAM, 7X 16TB SAS drives (used an extra front bay) 4XNVME drives on a card and a RTX 2080. Running True NAS Scale on it and loving building the system each night in the few hours my kids allow
This video was recommended to me and I avoided it thinking "oh great more hardware I can't afford". Finally got around to it and a few days later I bought a z640 for $150 cad on marketplace. Love this thing. I was really struggling to find something that supported ECC at a reasonable price point.
those beeps reminded me of my pc. it happens to me either when:
A: there is a RAM, CPU or BIOS error
B: power cable was removed while the pc was running
I’ve had this idea with a z220 some years ago. I had at hand. In the end I’ve thought it was not worth the effort, but after watching your video I kind of regret I had not stick with it.
Completely different platform though, with way less options than the Z440.
Just wanted to point out that HP actually over-spec those PCIe 6-pin cables. They can supply a lot more power than normal 6-pin connectors, and it is completely safe to use a high-quality 6-pin to 8-pin converter cable to be able to power more demanding cards. This is also true for the older Z420 workstation.
Why does HP do this? Well, they tend to go for the overkill just to maximize stability, as these machines were designed to go into businesses. Why they didn't put in an 8-pin connector I can only speculate about, but my best guess would be that HP only cared about the officially supported cards that they sold with the system - which at the time would max out at som high-end Quadro card that likely needed 2x 6-pin's.
Halfway through the video I decided to see what prices they are here in the UK. Managed to buy one for £50 shipped ($63) with an E1620 v3 and 16gb. I also found a 16 core compatible CPU for £25 and 4 x 16gb for £18. I already have 3 Proxmox machines but two are mini or sff and can’t upgrade the graphics or hard drives easily so this will be great as a NAS and Plex server
OMG SERVER PART DEALS THATS 2 VIDEOS RELEASED TODAY WITH THEM IN HH AND LTT
I had no idea! That’s awesome haha
Hahaha I noticed that as well
a week or two ago Wendal at level1Tech had server part deals as well. Perfect timing since I'm pricing out a truenas server.
Hello Hardware Haven,
Just a recommendation to check out passive cooling ideas too, coz they would go nicely with the low power + reliable home labs!!!
Nice video ,thanks :)
I Run a maxed out z420 as a home server because its a lot quieter than enterprise servers, Its thirsty on power compared to other options these days, and slow on ddr3. I have been planning to move to z440 for a while now as an upgrade, hopefully I will get to it soon.
"that was definetly powered down" hahaha nice one... been there, done that
Thanks for the very informative video. I really like your presentation style & little snippets of humor. You've definitely earned a like AND a subscribe! I did a quick check locally, and used, these units range in price from $250 to $2000, depending on spec level. Looking forward to learning more in your next one =)
Really like how you incorporate 3d printing and computers sir. Keep up the great work.
Thanks!
Loving my Lenovo P520 for these exact reasons. I have 2 cheap ASUS NVME adapters in the x16 slots (4x4x4x4) and the 2 onboard NVME give me 10 NVME drives. Along with a Dual 10g ethernet making for a very good Proxmox W/TrueNAS box. Makes it hard to convince me to buy any of those purpose-built NAS solutions
Go ahead and put that ZOTAC RTX 3060 in there. The Delta PSUs for HP are modestly rated and the 3060 won't be an issue. I used to run a Sapphire Radeon HD4850 X2 (2 GPUs on one board) in an old HP XW 4400 that had only one 6-pin PCIE power connector. The PSU was rated for 460 watts. The card had one 6-pin and one 8-pin connector. I used a dual sata to 8-pin PCIE adapter for the 8-pin socket. It worked fine for years. It even handled Furmark. Although, Furmark in "extreme burn-in" mode would trip the PSU. No doubt it was the sata power rails being overloaded.
This is what I run my home server on! This is exciting.
I just got a Z400 for $80 CAD, this video came in handy.
Great as always, Colten! Merry Christmas!
There is a HP branded fan that goes where yout 3d printed fan bracket. My Z440 still has its front fan. 👍
That’s what I was thinking, thanks for confirming!
HP documentation is usually very helpful and includes parts numbers for different options. Downside is they often cost more than you paid for the machine. I recently ended up buying a 2nd machine for some of the optional stuff and immediately reselling it for the same price without said parts.
The front fan is just a 92mm Foxconn fan, in an expensive plastic housing with a plastic grill.
I replaced my case fans with Pure Wings 2.
You can move the page file (virtual memory) to a different drive if the OS drive is too small as well, assuming you have the other drives are also SSDs
Sir, you videos are so informative. I wish to have at least a minimal (less complexity) of my own nas in future. very got me interested on all this network n storage stuffs. Merry xmas n a happy new year to u.
I love budget workstations. My windows server is an old dell t7600. They actually have a rail kit for that sonyou can rack mount it too.
"My system came with just one stick of 8GB ddr4 *which isn't terrible*" Huh? How is that not terrible-
8gb is not terrible because it’s the standard minimum for a pc to work properly, 4gb is unacceptable and anything above 8gb is good. But 16gb for a personal pc, 32gb for gaming or work, and 64gb+ for workstations is the sweet spot right now
Watching this from a HP Z240, i7-6700, dual Quadro P2200 and 64GB of RAM, can comfortably say, if you need a really budget friendly workstation w/ decent RAM size, multi (non-6/8 pin) GPU support... This thing shreds. Been using it for about half a year as my Blender workstation with occassionally booting up VR. Not bad, except on Linux, 5GB of VRAM on Nvidia is a joke, with no shared memory feature. Good video HH. :)
You should purchase a consumer GPU with 12GB/16GB, they are far more capable than low to mid-end workstation cards :)
The new 12GB Intel card looks pretty good and used AMD w/ 16GB and up can be found for cheap.
@@Rotwold I would like one, yeah! But there's, 2 issues.
1) financial mess. I won't, go in details ^^;
2) The PSU is 300w, no 6pin/8pin, I'd need to mod the case for a normal ATX PSU. :P
Projects like this are very interesting and fun to make...if there werent the high energy prizes. A Server like this would be more tham enough for a big home lab, but if it sucks 30+ Watts in idle...
You're contents awesome bro, love the tinkering spirit!
One of my favourite machines. I have one in a box in a closet somewhere. The Z6 G4 is even better, and fewer quirks.
On my list! haha
@HardwareHaven Unlike other oems, the Z6 G4 supports QS cpus. So, you can put some, exotic CPUs in it that cost a arm and a leg for cheap. I have a QS W3235 in mine, works great FYI...
Good to know!
what 3D printer did you use?
*Printer feed head says "Bambu Lab"*
I have an old one of these systems sitting in my basement. I was in the process of upgrading it when my house got robbed. They ened up stealing the CPU and never got around to ordering a new one. This video is making me think I should finally get around to doing that.
I sold my Z440 and kept my custom-build machine instead, and I kinda regret it. The Z440 is just neat.
headless with everything sans gpu about 100 watts at idle - totally acceptable - the vast swaths of ram slathered on this piece bring it to another level in terms of capabilities with trunas or web server or virt host box - an example of early consolidation, also hp older gear is generally great, easy to work on - solid content - do a followup on adding another ps and dual gpu for some llm ai local open source testing - i think that is next stage and with 3060 from 240 a pop relatively low barrier - with 24gb vram you should be able to run quite a few models
I wish I had ordered an MS-01 during the Black Friday sale.
Can you add a software guide on how you have setup the router as a VM and also the true as scale as a VM, I am doing the exact same thing but like I mentioned in previous comments I am upgrading to HP Z840.
Thanks
I picked up two of these for 200 euros each about a year ago, new e5-2697a v4 and storage and good to go, even came with 64gbs of ram, had to do some finnesing to get the nvme ssd on the pcie card to get to post reliable but that was easy enough by moving the bootloader to a sata drive and having it boot windows from the ssd
Where did you get the capsules. Link please.
Been running older precision workstations as my primary nas (unraid) and my backups for quite a while.
It’s crazy that angry HP computers sound exactly like my alarm clock lol
I'm running an older Z420 workstation as a daily driver. I've just ordered a 64GB(Ax8GB) ram upgrade kit. This is do to the fact that generation of motherboard in my particular Z420 is the first generation boot code wise and therein is restricted to a hard limit of 64GB of ram.
Happy weekend with another Colten video!
Very good video. Maybe I will repeat your project but change the box and power supply. The bigger case will hold more hard drives and I will be able to fit more fans. 😉
Great video. I'm working and a Z800 right now.
I have a Z600 that I used as an ESXI server for many years until the CPUs fell off the compatibility matrix. Replacing it was good for the power bill though
Hi!
I'm thinking about replicating this build for myself (exactly how you have), but I have a few questions that I'd really appreciate for you to answer (if you have the time):
- Could you if possible send a link to the drive adapter you used to replace the other bays?
- What power supply did you use for this? What wattage would be required?
I have an existing Jellyfin setup within Docker and I was wondering if you know how I'd convert that to be able to run within Proxmox while still retaining all my configs?
Thank you so much! Your videos are amazing and always a treat to see :)
As always, sweet video. Loved the build "montage"
Figuring out how to boot without GPU just to put it back in 15 min later is a typical homelabing experience.
Would this type of workstation be suitable as a budget gaming/livestreaming machine?
Mr. Haven what is your preferred connection type 10gb on rj45 or 10gb on SFP+ ?
I did like the second live given to the hp system.
I use this PC as my 24/7 Unraid Home Server with almost the exact same components. Works great. I even ordered the JetKVM for it to control it remotely ;)
The JetKVM device does not have Keyboard support in BIOS with this PC. Has anyone the same config and got it to work?
You can do some really cool stuff older workstations. Love working on these systems. The newer HP Z6 G4 Dual socket and Z8 G4 can be great homelab servers. The only bad thing about them would be Intel VROC and all the proprietary stuff. But VROC shouldn't be an issues for most people that want to run a homelab with proxmox or equivalent.
what the hill ! it's really work right now? and have many electric its need too?