My step dad has a story he tells with cards. He'll pull out a deck, have someone cut it, and he will tell a story with how they fall. The trick is that he's already stacked the Deck, and even after a cut, he'll know which card to look for to start his story. Oliver used some slight of hand. I'm willing to bet he knows who he gives the Son of Sam card to; he stacks the Deck just like my step dad. (They make it look so convincing, even if you know how the trick is done.) Then, Oliver can tell everyone's tell.
I think the flashbacks of Bunny with Mabel are Mabel’s memory, not necessarily what actually happened. So reading the lips to see Savage vs passage wouldn’t help because it’s just what Mabel thinks she said.
The mystery is really escalating. Can't wait for next weeks episode. The ending of this episode was really shocking especially with the "Son of Sam" card in Alice's bag and the fact that Will might actually be Teddy's son instead of Oliver's I don't think Alice is the killer but she might be involved in a different crime. Maybe she just wanted to steal the painting. Who knows?
One of the podcast groupies in the diner commented that he knew about the passages because he had removed mold from them. He also mentioned that his daughter had become gay. Now, refer to Alice's monologue when Oliver humiliated her. She was tossing out a bushel of clues. Keep your eye on this podcast character. See if he is developed more.
I love all of the subplot dramas leading us to be suspicious of so many characters! I don’t think it can be Theo or Teddy as they were both detained at the time of Bunny’s murder. They are released on house arrest currently, but would not have been in the building or at the diner to meet with Bunny. There are so many unanswered questions from S1 that we still need to loop back to, and I hope we get answers for who poisoned Winnie, why the police neglected aspects of Tim’s toxicology report, etc. And now, how the police were alerted to the building before Mabel likely even got to her apartment.
@@DoublePMedia I’m still working out some things in my mind. Lucy would have been in the passageway upstairs from Mabel & Bunny’s floor on 14th, not 12. So why did killer go up a floor to get into passageway? Bunny doesn’t crawl through vent to Mabel’s bathroom or the passage entry that Mabel finds this episode (there would have been blood traces)…so was she knifed first & then knitting needled subsequently & where is 3rd secret entryway between Bunny’s & Mabel’s? Oliver doesn’t lock his door, so that is how killer got his knife. The painting isn’t in Charles’ when they get out of prison. We need to be introduced to Jared, have Mabel’s flashback/origin episode (we’ve already had Charles & Oliver’s) and a police centric episode (as besides episode 1, they have been GLARING in their absence so far). Howard’s yodeling has replaced Jan’s bassoon and a musician IS an artist. Maybe Howard would have become VP of the building with Bunny leaving… Teddy tells Theo to stop obsessing over whatever he is obsessing over…Lucy may have recognized Theo going by her (and why he couldn’t hear her breathing) in the passageway. I need to sit down & map these things out.
@@irishted13 Actually, if the person exited Mabel's apt from the floor vent, he would be on the 11th floor & would have to go up 2 floors to the 14th. I think he was on the 14th to plant the knife in Charles' apt. Also he seemed a little lost while in the passageway because he turned right first, then left (where Lucy was hiding), then back-tracked along the way he came, in the direction of Charles' apt, the same direction Lucy took afterwards. I agree with you that there is likely a 3rd passageway linking Mabel & Bunny's apts, and I think Bunny used it in an attempt to escape her attacker. If Charles, Oliver & Mabel were still there partying, Bunny likely would have survived.
Cool theory about Howard, whom I have not suspected before because I did not see a motive. However, if he did find Evelyn's leg in Charles' freezer, that would give him a motive. If that's the case, he could be working with Alice, who we now know is also a pick-pocket (she had to steal a blonde card to fool Oliver). Alice's gallery is called the Third Arm Gallery, but as a group they could be known as the Third Arm Collective (TAC) - spell it backwards & you have CAT. Could the show-runners be hinting that Alice is a cat-burglar & also associated with Howard, who's a cat lover? Apologies for the far-out theory!
I think Alice filmed Mabel cutting her artwork with an axe to get dirt on her. Then she will drop the video when they are getting close to solving who did it. I don’t think Alice is the killer but she could be working for them.
I agree Howard is involved. Evelyn's foot might still be in the freezer. If she walked through Tim's blood to make those paw prints, she'd have blood on her paw. Howard would have seen it. Are Evelyn's paws still bloody or did Howard clean them off? Charles does say he was acting with the fainting. So he can act. He's also a performer in yodelshop and we hear him yodeling this season, like we heard Jan play her bassoon last season. Howard has been trying to get close to the trio. They find the painting- he knocks on the door and tries to get in. They find the knife- he walks in but they push him out. But, Lucy said "they". I think it's him, Dr Stanley and Liam. They were all bullied on the board by Bunny and Nina. If Jan and Dr Stanley were on 6, perhaps next door neighbors, maybe she could hear them plotting this through the vents. I think they're using the painting as a red herring; it might be a crime unrelated to the murder. I think Alice is involved with it.
The theme this season is family. Whoever killed Bunny was in some way a part of her family. Maybe a child or grandchild that she disowned. That’s why she says the person she had lunch with was not her friend.
LOVE that thought. Though I did skip my family reunion this weekend. How do you imagine that the killer will be related to Bunny? Child? Sibling? Parent?
A theory I have about Ivan not necessarily killer but relating to the family thing: do you think bunny might have had a kid and gave them up and that kid could be Ivan this could also explain the money
@@vivienneflory3287 I thought about this too. I wondered if she gave up more than one kid - and that's why Ivan is "her favorite." I feel like when he offers to get her the tea and doesn't dial into the deeper meaning of her statement she seems sad.
I have a couple of questions about Howard being the killer: if he passed out at the blood, why are his glasses intact, is Howard physically fit enough to climb the ladders in the pathways, and (not Howard related) we only have Lenore’s word the painting is a forgery, maybe she is only saying that to get it back easier?
I love questions like this. As someone who doesn't wear glasses, I assume people have more than one pair. I don't think the physically fit question will come up. Great note about the painting. The show will focus on the painting, then the show doesn't focus on the painting. I assume Lenora's the only person who can tell the podcast 3 (and the audience) the truth about the painting - so I'm going to assume she tells 'the truth'
I was notified by youtube the first day angels with flip-flops came out and I had a blast playing it on repeat.. thanks for the shout out and for thinking of informing me tho 💕!! Pitta putta! 🎉😇
I just realized that Alice has the blue coveralls (at 11:50), and I believe the shoes she's wearing match. I also have some questions that I haven't seen answered. The killer knocked on Bunny's door and was let into Bunny's apartment. How did she end up in Mabel's apartment. What really made Alice reach out to Mabel? Ok, sudden epiphany, let me float a kinda new theory... Alice is an artist, but we've seen her do fairly perfect replicas. For example, she built a set that looks like Mabel's house. Also, she recreated Mabel's mural. What if Alice is also the one who did the forgery of the painting? If she was the one that had been calling Bunny, perhaps Alice wanted her own painting back for some reason and Bunny kept refusing. What if THAT is the reason Bunny was killed? Hence, Bunny saying "Savage", since that was on the back of the forgery. Perhaps to identify the forgery as the one that was sought? In your assessment of episode 2, you posited the thought of Howard not being the killer, but potentially being the one planting evidence. What if Howard is killer adjacent. If he was behind the scenes and saw the murder, but not the murderer? What if he's watched Bunny before and knew someone was after the painting, so upon seeing the murder, he grabbed the painting. The knife wasn't found at the scene, so what if Howard followed the person and saw where they disposed of the knife? What if the reason Howard placed these items in their apartment, wasn't to frame them, but to provide them the evidence they'd need to solve the murder? That would also explain the look on Howard's face and the fake scream when Uma found the painting missing. I'm probably far off, but it's a theory. Alice's ability to basically replicate art really makes me think she is the one who painted the forgery.
In the video of the diner, there's a lot of focus on the person that Bunny was talking to, but what was the waitress behind her doing? She looks like she picks something up off the floor even though she didn't seem to drop anything, then gestures at the people in the other booth, then leaves without serving them anything. It might be nothing, but they do like to misdirect people. Edit to add, someone said H.H Holmes vibes, and H+H was in the heart at the prison, so maybe that's the easter egg to point to it being that kind of a building with far more secrets inside. ANOTHER note - in the opening credits from the first series, there's an easter egg in the crest on the gate outside of the building as a clue. It's not just about 'easter eggs' being in the opening credits, but who hands out easter eggs? The Easter Bunny. Easter eggs are also usually in bright colours, like tie-dye, and Bunny is murdered while in a tie-dye hoodie. Sometimes the clues go deeper than we think. The three blobs of different colours in the Lava Lamp could also be a clue.
Theory: Alice I think is a misdirection... although there's some facts that would paint her as the killer...pun.... she knew who rose cooper was and would def have knowledge of the price for painting and may have been able to make a duplicate it to pull an ocean's 12 .... now what if Charles father did die, but while in prison brags about how the woman he allegedly killed painted a picture of him that's now worth millions.... gets out and starts bothering bunny about the painting???? And lastly .... maybe one of Cinda's protégés wanted to protect HER podcast and tried to frame them again to stir up trouble for the purpose of getting on cindas good side
Ivan told Bunny that he’d heard from the previous day’s server that Bunny had been there with the “friend.” I wonder if someone can ask that other server to describe the person Bunny was with.
I think Bunny’s killer is a woman from what we can make out in the brief scene of her being killed. I also think that she was killed by accident due to the unfortunate timing of her wearing the hooded sweatshirt. I also think that the champagne bottle that she gave to Mabel and Oliver is a big clue as to who Bunny’s killer is. I think Teddy Dimas’ deaf son fits the build of the character wandering around the secret passageways at night as we know that he and his father smuggled jewellery and other valuables around in the hotel.
It the scene depicting the history of the building and it’s architect in 1908, the architect looked just like Teddy with a mustache. ….same actor…? Significance..?
Theo and Teddy were in jail when Bunny got killed, they were released after she died, so it can't be them. My money is on Cinda, she has the most motive to feel threatened by the trio, and like Jan she won't be given airtime until later episodes in order to avoid our suspicion around her.
I think the killer is Mark if you remember Bunny told Nina that Mark was an impulsive liar. And he looked suspicious as those two were talking on the bench on the courtyard
Howard fits just as Jan said he tried 2 times to get close to them, it always stays with me when they said showing at memorial is classic guilty person move. And who was there? Last year they gave us crucial clue in episode 2. And then distracted with side mystery
I went back and listened to the Mabel/Tim scene from season 1 at the fountain…it’s debatable whether he says “A” or “E”; but I lean towards “E” which means there wasn’t any switch of apts as has been surmised in a number of locations.
So I think it’s Alice… Marc might be her dad, her dad was a plumber he mentioned something about working at the arconia and knows about the passageways and has a daughter that came out.. kinda sounds like Alice and she might’ve changed her name… or Alice could be bunny’s daughter and feels entitled to whatever bunny owned and that’s why she killed her… idk still thinking about it or she’s Jan’s daughter
I like that theory that Alice is Marv's daughter. But didn't he say he wasn't invited to be wedding? Alice isn't married...or is she? Or does he have 2 daughters?
Where did the knife come from?. Oliver’s apartment. Who’s artistic? Oliver’s son. Who grew up in the arconia? Oliver’s son. But what would be the fascination with the painting. Just a thought but not sold on it
Oliver’s son is a vet…this is the first time he’s directing & he’s completely lost. I DO find it funny Will & Mabel have never been in a scene together…Will was the one who outed Mabel to Oliver & Charles last season as knowing Tim.
So devastated for Oliver finding out he is not Will's father. S/N: I'm really starting to believe the #8 has some significance. On your recap of episode 3 I noticed the photo you posted of the main 3 where Selena(Mabel is wearing a red dress) the cards thrown up in the air....2 of the cards are the 3 of clubs and 5 of clubs(3+5=8). Why is that number so significant? BTW I just found this podcast and I am loving it.
When they talk about bunny’s day bunny says that she lives in the same apartment since she was little.. so that would be 12A so why did young Tim Kono tell Mabel her aunt lives in 12A but now lives in 12E… if Mabel’s aunt lived in 12A when Mabel was little wouldn’t she know about the elevator? Where is her aunt anyways? Could Bunny be Mabel’s aunt lover? She’s been gone idk how long and Bunny has been giving Ivan more and more money for the last 7 years.. what happened in Bunny’s life for her to change?
If you go back & listen, it’s hard to tell if the actor says 12A or 12E…I think it was 12E all along and the transcriber for closed captioning got it wrong
I love your Howard theory... but this show is too good... we haven't seen all the information yet. I LIVE for this show and all analysis shows... yours is the best. I'm going to rewarch the episode and talk with my work group show club... I'll come back to post our theories before Tuesday!!!! Much love from DC
I think each new person showing up in each characters life is gonna play a crucial part in figuring out maybe even have something to do with the killing. ( Alice, Lucy ,and Oliver’s son)
One additional thing about Howard. Before the homeowner's meeting Howard had taken Mrs. Gambolini out of Bunny's bedroom and brought her into the living room. He said to Dr. Grover Stanley, "Bunny seemed upset that we moved the cage, but Mrs. Gambolini needed to be at the party, right?" This means that he and Dr. Stanley, 'we moved....' were in her bedroom and could have seen the painting. The exculpatory part is that Bunny was not talking with Howard or with Dr. Grover Stanley with disgust at that meeting, the disgust which she evidenced in the phone call about the painting and with the person at the dinner. So... probably not Howard or Dr. Grover Stanley. Back to square one :) The clue that keeps coming up for me are Mable's last words before going down to find Bunny dying. "... some loose ends?"
I think that there is more than one mystery and definitely more than one suspects we don't know if the killer's motive was the painting even tho the painting is a key to something.Also people say that bunny's mom was actually the woman who made the painting.I am really curious about her mysterious death bunny's mom talked about..if the artist is fr dead,how was it mysterious?what happened?
So the whole show has been about failed relationships: Charles & Jan, Charles & his Girlfriend, Sazz & Charles's Girlfriend, Oliver & his Wife, Mable & Oscar, Tim & Jan, Teddy & Theo, Teddy & Oscar's Wife, Charles's Father & Bunny's Mother, Charles's Father and Rose Cooper, Lucy & 5 Step Fathers, there isn't one stable relationship. Howard is lonely, Dr. Grover Stanley is desperate, Tim was desperate, and Uma is bitter. The only relationship that has lasted is Bunny and her parrot. Makes me want to binge Date Line just to avoid ending up on Date Line. Bunny was the only person that managed to figure out what was important to her and so they killed her. This is like Mayberry R.F.D.; the only married person was the town drunk.
I think Oliver's telling Teddy not to cheat, and that he's the killer spoke volumes. I still think both were out of prison at the time, but even if they were in prison, their reach is long. I think Alice had another reason for holding the party at Mabel's; she wanted another reason to be in the building, but it's not clear what. Was that the first time 'Malice' spent the night at the Arconia? She was actually NOT fiddling with her hair when she spoke to Oliver and Charles at the party, but he had a reason to suspect her, she is shady/deceitful. I am not loving the Charles/Janice storyline. I guess having a crazy killer find you fascinating is better than nothing but is it? I think the killer is someone they know or know OF, but is not close to them..
Would love for Teddy to be Bunny's killer --- should we assume he meant to kill Mabel? Also, why wouldn't Teddy hire someone? Like his muscle that picked up Oliver and Mabel at the funeral home.
@@DoublePMedia I don't see Teddy killing Mabel; it would be a 'dead' giveaway as he clearly has motive, but if he did, Teddy would hire someone (I think the muscle from the funeral home is a strong prospect too).Theo has rage issues and would do the deed himself.
I'm holding out hope somehow the info is wrong ... somehow Teddy found out a way to fake the DNA tests cause he promised Oliver he'd fuck him - and there's nothing Oliver values more than his family. But that's likely wishful thinking.
the person who poisoned winnie, is the person who knows about Jan, and the same person who wants the painting. Someone perhaps really needs money? Why would someone try to kill Winnie? Idk...
I can see Howard being the masked guy in the secret passage, searching for his new kitten. That's how her last cat may have gotten into Tim Kono's apartment. Now, it means he knows about the secret passage yes, but is he the killer? I don't think so. Also, Bunny was attacked in her apartment, so how did she get into Mabel's? By the secret passage. Which means that whoever stabbed her didn't try to frame Mabel like we thought since episode 1, unlike with Charles and Oliver. And whoever stabbed Bunny may have seen her escape from the secret passage and discovered it at this moment. Then, the killer comes up with a plan using the secret passage to frame them. The fact that Mabel isn't targeted yet let me believe that it could be Alice, who may have taken a real liking in her. Alice could be related to Bunny ( her niece?). She may be the one dining with her, and since she is an artist, asking about the painting, which would also be an unheritance. Charles could be Bunny's brother, so she try to frame him for the murder AND the painting.
@Cloud Puffs the newest episode with Mabel on the subway, her loss of memory and the very first episode of the first season make me think: what if Mabel found Bunny stabbed with the knife in her appartment and kind of zoomed out, putting the needle into Bunny herself? She obviously has some... issues. Maybe the killer even followed Bunny through the passage way and was there when Mabel arrived, and she tried to take down the killer, but accidentally missed and the needle hit Bunny? I don't know, but I definitely think that's possible and she wasn't supposed to get framed. I actually think that Charles and Oliver didn't get the text to protect them from getting framed. The police was on their way before they got the text, it wouldn't make a difference. I actually believe they got the text as a trap to be framed, but it didn't work out the way the killer wanted because they went to Mabels appartment instead of getting out of the building... maybe they were supposed to look like running away from the scene. It wasn't planned that Mabel would be on the crime scene at that exact time.
I agree that Howard is the killer. I can't get past him since episode two. Lucy is not the killer. I think Lucy texted them to get out of the building though.
Lucy didn't text, the lady cop did. Charles has Lucy's number saved in his phone, but when he got the "Get out of the building" text, Charles said he didn't recognize the number.
I rewatched the last scene of season 1 episode 10 when the trio is walked out by the cops past the other tenants, the super fans, and Cinda & Poppy. I reviewed it multiple times and everyone seems to be present EXCEPT HOWARD. That definitely seems like a clue. Please let me know if he’s there and I just missed him since I really like him and don’t want him to be the killer
I suspect Teddy Dimas because of course he hates Mabel and Charles, and even more Oliver because he "stole" his son and he had the SAME boots than the killer. And I'm not sure I understand the "two killers" thing but I think there is just one. (sorry if my english is not good I'm french 😅)
Since I don't want it to be Howard either, I think we can also look at itin this way: Rather than Jan pointing at Howard as a suspect, why did she want to get the attention off the Dimases? Does she know something about them? Maybe about Oliver? When they were the main suspect in that episode in S1 why was she trying to pin it to Howard without any evidence whilst the Dimases looked pretty guilty?
Also I am still wondering who stabbed Jan in the first season? Could it be one of the Dimases? Because she knew that Will wasn't Oliver's son? And who poisoned Winnie? Because personally I don't think Jan was placing all the threatening messages in season 1
@@vefakitsaki Jan confessed she stabbed herself in season finale to Charles (around the time Mabel finds the knife in the vent in Jan’s apartment). I think there is a relationship between the 2 6th floor residents…Teddy & Jan.
I think Amy Schumer is suspicious. She stays on the penthouse -> 14th floor. Bunny knows everyone in the building and will be able to say the names. However, Amy Schumer would be new to the building and Bunny, in her age, may not remember her name.
I‘m still stuck with Alice. She wanted legitimacy to her name. She needed the painting. Her father (I‘m leaning on the Theorie that the Superfan is her dad, and she’s not even British)…. I’m reaching but I don’t like her sudden appearance out of nowhere only after Mables murial got hyped cause of the publicity. Her perfect way to move closer to see whats going on
jan and howard were DEFINITELY in kahoots. she was so quick to change the subject when his name was brought up! whether it was as friends or enemies, there was clearly some kind of relationship going on between them off-screen that we have yet to discover
Maybe. Jan is getting close to Charles cause she knows he's a sucker and lonely and she'll get hot goss about the investigation. Could Howard be the one planting stuff perhaps in people's apartments? But I still think he's just a creeper looking for hot goss in the passages. He saw blood somewhere in the passages and fainted giving him the black eye. Did he only see post attack blood or during the attack?
The entrance to the air duct in Mable's apt is next to the outside wall; the air duct in Bunny's apt is across the hall and adjacent to the hall at the entry. So the ductwork makes a bend at the outside wall, goes over the main hall, and then daylights at Bunny's. This makes sense; there was never a common wall between Mable's and Bunny's, but the duct running along between the units to a common main and then branching out across to Bunny's would make sense. The main trunk would run above the hallway, where the ceiling could be lower. To be fair, only in movies are they ducts large enough to crawl through for minor vents; it is known as the Bruce Willis vent. The building, even one this old, would probably have fire dampers between the units or the main trunk line above the hallway; these would allow sound through, but not anything thicker than 2".
Maybe, but those are Cara Delevigne’s real initials tattooed on her hand. Would be clever if the writers managed to write that in as an Ester egg though.
I kind of agree here. I do believe Apple doesn’t like people using an iPhone in movies/shows if they are a criminal. So they don’t give their permission if the character using the iPhone is a criminal.
Could the duplicate painting (remember that it was in a large frame) fit through the entrance in Charles's bathroom? Or would the thief/art-killer have to be somebody who could open his front door? We've seen Theo steal the master key from the front desk, but I doubt it's him. I still think that Lucy is the one who stabbed Bunny with the knitting needle, but I also reckon there is at least one other person (somebody who stabbed Bunny with the knife and took the painting, or one person who stabbed Bunny and a third person who took the painting). I think Ivan is Bunny's son, whom she gave up at birth and tracked down later in life in order to be a silent benefactor. Perhaps when she gave him away, she realised that she had nothing left (as she warned Nina) and focused her energy onto the Arconia. Howard knew that the painting wasn't going to be in Bunny's apartment, if you watch episode 1 again you can see him clearly mimicking Una's reaction when she screams. He also just happens to turn up to almost catch the trio with the painting and then also the knife which is a big coincidence - can he hear them through a vent? Or had he planted the evidence both times?
There are a lot of interesting things that may be clues, but the toxicology report being blocked - that's unlikely a red herring - it's gotta "mean" something. But the only reason I can think of to block the report is to protect Jan. Right? Who wants to protect Jan? Is there another motivation for making his death seem like suicide? And...how does that link to anything now? Is Tim's death still an open problem? I can't even begin theorizing on this one. I completely don't get it.
Helen, I think the writer's had the toxicology report blocked... because they wanted the Podcast Trio to learn Tim was murdered. If the police had done the tox, they'd have known he'd was poisoned, etc. Now the writers have to come up with a compelling REASON it was blocked.
Oof. That’s probably it. I do wonder what Mabel’s referring to when she says on the rooftop that there are loose ends. I remember thinking that too - but I was thinking of the note on Jan’s door which M wouldn’t have known about. It made me think it was the tox report.
Someone in the police dept, also, didn't send the phone in for the techs to analyze. Detective Williams said someone in the dept wanted the case closed, & she sent Tim's phone to Mabel. I'm wondering if the new detective doesn't have something to do with supressing the evidence from Tim's death.
I know there are a lot of father/child dynamics going on, and I'm wondering if "Son of Sam" just emphasizes the disconnect between Oliver and Will if they're not biologically related, or if it's a clue to focus on sons
Yea, you're definitely obsessed with Howard. I like the Marv theory, he's a real creep, maybe he even did it to get a second season... The painting doesn't connect to it though, must've been another person involved into that
Hey about your unifying theory I don't find it as unifying as it should be. Apart from Bunny's dying words, there is the whole painting part that doesn't fit into this at all. Why would Howard meet with Bunny the day before in the diner? And if Howard knew about the painting, don't you believe Uma would know that Howard knows? (making that scene at Bunny's appartment unnecessary) Why wasn't that particular heated meeting mentionned or even hinted at at the board meeting? There isn't any kind of animosity between Bunny and Howard at that meeting, it seems weird. Finally assuming Howard is a fainter in front of blood, how would he manage to stab Bunny 8 TIMES without fainting and why wouldn't Bunny, someone who works out as we saw in E3, be able to overpower Howard, who isn't exactly the strongest... physically? The number of stabs makes me think that: A- Bunny was the targeted person and she wasn't mistaken as Mabel/Oscar or somebody else B- the number 8 means a lot to the killer1
in one episode, can't remember in which, we see someone dressed in what could been work pants and boots..in episode 5 Alice is dressed similar..and for secret passage in Mabel room- in pilot when Mabel tells a story of her dream how she wake and seen a man standing over her..that man is wearing ski mask just like a man Lucy saw in secret passage..could that be somekind of foreshadowing?
I think Alice made the fake painting but theo hired her and theo needed money to start a new life but Alice goes by the door while theo at the passage way and Bonnie sees Alice at the door and they get into an fight but at the same time theo comes threw the passage way and graphs the nearest thing a knive and Bonnie runs into the passage and theo drops the knive in the passage way and drops the cigarette box and Bonnie's ends up in Mable apartment and theo finds the closet weapon a knitting knive and later retrieves the knive and puts it in charles apartment and realize that anyone who knows about it would know its a fake and the second Bonnie died the painting became evidence and motive and he planting evidence into the group beacuse they are the ones who ruined his life and a heist became a murder.
There is a theory going around, I didn't want to mention it because I couldn't confirm, but wanted to hint at the theory: People claim Mabel and Alice were switching cards. You can maybe see it, but I wasn't 100% sure
Appreciate yr Howard theory as a good one, also separates Alice & painting storyline, just push & shove, with Bunny being in Mabels apartment where shes killed. Bunny in this apartment calls police before targetted by Howard or killer. Marv likely Alice's father, as he noted in the Pickle, his daughter had just told him. Also are we looking for a team of two in the action or who storylines? timing of death, timing of torch at Lucy, timing of police. Who rang the police. Therefore shoes exiting lift could be Alice as wearing fathers cleaning ppc, and in her apartment this episode she is wearing same blue overalls with arms tied (or less likely its Lucy stepping out of elevator) Bringing Marv into equation as need a tall male to be with Mabel on train. Martin Short spoke of the Coney Island scenes as action for Mabel so plenty of good episodes to follow. Just as Oliver sighted Teddy & Theo it is possible Teddy been spying on Oliver & his son. Will being Teddys son takes the investigation into a whole new direction including S3. Keen to know if Nathan Lane's guest appearance extends to season 3 !! Hadnt thought of him being the target but an excellent link.
So if Mabel lives on the 12th floor and Charles on the 14th, I’m confused on how the killer would’ve come down through the vent and ended up on Charles’ floor (assuming Lucy was hiding in the secret passageway on the 14th floor). Maybe they climbed up levels within the passageway?
I feel there's more than 1 person. The one in the boots had the knife in his/her left hand. The one on passageway(where Lucy was) had flashlight in right hand. Different dominant hands.
There was no other woman…Jan found the ring & THOUGHT there was another woman; but didn’t know Tim was gathering evidence against the Dimas’ (and that ring was the ring that Zoe had on the night when she died; but gave back to Theo before he accidentally pushed her off the roof)
My thoughts: A1) Bunny sells her painting, for her retirement. 2) Plus, to payoff the Russians that are blackmailing her. 3) Ivan is the middle man. 4) Police would have investigated Ivan because of the large sum of money, that is why Ivan put the money back, he also knows how to get into building. 5) Ivan points to the camera, but why didn't he do it the first time. 6) Handwriting on the envelope needs to be checked. 7) Ivan or his helper killed Bunny. B2) Lucy, after the scream, went to check on Bunny, Lucy pulls the knife out, realizes her fingerprints our on it, and hears someone coming puts the the knitting needle in. 2) Puts the knife in Oliver's place, and finds it (ha ha) later. 3) Takes Bunny's painting, and puts it in Charles' place, knowing that it is a fake.
I am 100% sure that Lucy sent this message to Charles and Oliver that night. I mean it’s obvious. She saw this man in the secret passageways and she also heard bunny screaming.
@@DoublePMedia yeah I had the same thought but I can’t think of anyone else. Also why did this person sent this message only to Charles and Oliver and not to Mabel? What if the killer texted only them because he really wanted to frame only Mabel ? 👀🤷♂️
But it was Lucy, why would she want the matchstick evidence? Didn't they text that number, which they presumed for Detective Williams, and figured out they were actually texting the killer desperate for their hands on the evidence? Lucy doesn't seem to be the killer so far.. Or maybe she could be? If the person who texted them, is in fact Lucy, then she may be lying about the person in the vents. It is her story, we are not sure/have no evidence that it is in fact the truth. She ran away from her mom, who we still do not know much about and we're not sure why exactly she made that decision, and she couldn't be sure if Charles would take her in as well. So she stole the painting for money and had to kill off Bunny? Weak theory I know, but could be possible...
@@yuvashreep2187 I’m sure Lucy is not the killer because we saw that she saw the killer in the secret passage ways. Also I wrote this theory before I watch the sixth episode and now I’m 100% sure that Lucy did NOT texted them that night.
I'll mention on the next podcast, but there's a *chance* that Teddy and Roberta fooled around BEFORE she married Oliver. Not that they shouldn't have told Oliver about it, but still...
Maybe Lucy didn't say anything to Charles about the killer in the passage way is beacuse Lucy knows it is theo Maybe the time Lucy lived with Charles she befriended a younger theo and saw him as a older brother and he is the one who showed Lucy the passageway and she is thinking it is him beacuse as far as she knows only two people know about the passage way her and theo
I think young Tim Kono said 12A but he's got a bit of an accent. I watch a lot of shows with CC, and they frequently make mistakes like that where the words sound similar.
@@DoublePMedia Do you remember what episode we learn this? It's just so strange! I want to rewatch that part. It feels either a massive clue or a massive writer oversight (like when little Tim said to Mabel "12a, I like her". Ahh!
@@joyindrelie6715 In s1e10, Charles tells Jan that he caught her because her 'J' was the same 'J' in 'I'm lonely' note. But while the 'J's' do match. No other letters do. It's Howard's handwriting of the Board Meeting revealed in s2e3 that match the 'I'm lonely' note.
How did alice get the extra innocent blonde card that she slammed into oliver? did she take two slyly, did she pickpocket mabel's? am i misremembering?
Theory: I think Bunny’s death itself is a huge misdirection! I think the killer mistook her for Mabel and a the killer thought he was killing Mabel. Who has the motive to kill Mabel?
@@DoublePMedia okay I was deeply considering this question and then I came across Toni Colette’s name and nodded vigorously, so I’m going to say Toni Colette. :)
@@matth.7388 Marv tells Bunny that he orginally believed Bunny killed Tim Kono, so he would be the most likely to say it. It would also be the clearest motive for him to kill Bunny.
Theory: Bunny thinking that Charles attacked her said "Savage" but in reality her true killer was his stunt double Sazz (Jane Lynch) from Season 1.
This is also one of my theories…
Wait-
That’s a good idea. But where does 14 fit?
@@CandieP wait wait waitt the woman oliver met in the elevator is living in stink's apartment where it is in the 14th floor
Jajajaja good one.
My step dad has a story he tells with cards. He'll pull out a deck, have someone cut it, and he will tell a story with how they fall. The trick is that he's already stacked the Deck, and even after a cut, he'll know which card to look for to start his story.
Oliver used some slight of hand. I'm willing to bet he knows who he gives the Son of Sam card to; he stacks the Deck just like my step dad. (They make it look so convincing, even if you know how the trick is done.) Then, Oliver can tell everyone's tell.
I think the flashbacks of Bunny with Mabel are Mabel’s memory, not necessarily what actually happened. So reading the lips to see Savage vs passage wouldn’t help because it’s just what Mabel thinks she said.
Good point!
I do get the feeling that everything is not happening in parallel time.
Mrs. Gambolini is the only one I do not suspect. Everyone is a sus! I love this show!!! 😁
Mrs. Gambolini = Killer
Is it possible that Bunny said, “…floor screen passage?” As in the one Mabel found in her closet?
I like that theory....sounds like it could fit
Mm too large.
YES!!!!!!
The mystery is really escalating. Can't wait for next weeks episode.
The ending of this episode was really shocking especially with the "Son of Sam" card in Alice's bag and the fact that Will might actually be Teddy's son instead of Oliver's
I don't think Alice is the killer but she might be involved in a different crime. Maybe she just wanted to steal the painting. Who knows?
One of the podcast groupies in the diner commented that he knew about the passages because he had removed mold from them. He also mentioned that his daughter had become gay. Now, refer to Alice's monologue when Oliver humiliated her. She was tossing out a bushel of clues. Keep your eye on this podcast character. See if he is developed more.
Marv
If you look closely behind Alice’s back you can see the son of Sam card in her hand before she gets called out.
Yup, she definitely had it in her had.
Why did Mabel not realise that Alice has the Son of Sam, If Alice had the card Mabel was innocent.
Yea I don’t understand how if she said she didn’t have it Mabel didn’t realize that she was lying
@@gracedeis7880 Going to assume Oliver could've had a card too - so Mabel thought the Son of Sam could've been Oliver or Alice
I think Alice had two cards in her hand like they show in the intro of young Oliver
I love all of the subplot dramas leading us to be suspicious of so many characters!
I don’t think it can be Theo or Teddy as they were both detained at the time of Bunny’s murder. They are released on house arrest currently, but would not have been in the building or at the diner to meet with Bunny.
There are so many unanswered questions from S1 that we still need to loop back to, and I hope we get answers for who poisoned Winnie, why the police neglected aspects of Tim’s toxicology report, etc. And now, how the police were alerted to the building before Mabel likely even got to her apartment.
They both could have been out (look at how the trio was released the next day after being persons of interest in a murder, not grave robbing)
I wonder if there are some mysteries from season 1 that won't be revealed until the final episode of the entire series
@@irishted13 So the Dimas' target would've been Mabel rather than Bunny, right?
@@DoublePMedia I’m still working out some things in my mind. Lucy would have been in the passageway upstairs from Mabel & Bunny’s floor on 14th, not 12. So why did killer go up a floor to get into passageway? Bunny doesn’t crawl through vent to Mabel’s bathroom or the passage entry that Mabel finds this episode (there would have been blood traces)…so was she knifed first & then knitting needled subsequently & where is 3rd secret entryway between Bunny’s & Mabel’s? Oliver doesn’t lock his door, so that is how killer got his knife. The painting isn’t in Charles’ when they get out of prison. We need to be introduced to Jared, have Mabel’s flashback/origin episode (we’ve already had Charles & Oliver’s) and a police centric episode (as besides episode 1, they have been GLARING in their absence so far). Howard’s yodeling has replaced Jan’s bassoon and a musician IS an artist. Maybe Howard would have become VP of the building with Bunny leaving…
Teddy tells Theo to stop obsessing over whatever he is obsessing over…Lucy may have recognized Theo going by her (and why he couldn’t hear her breathing) in the passageway. I need to sit down & map these things out.
@@irishted13 Actually, if the person exited Mabel's apt from the floor vent, he would be on the 11th floor & would have to go up 2 floors to the 14th. I think he was on the 14th to plant the knife in Charles' apt. Also he seemed a little lost while in the passageway because he turned right first, then left (where Lucy was hiding), then back-tracked along the way he came, in the direction of Charles' apt, the same direction Lucy took afterwards. I agree with you that there is likely a 3rd passageway linking Mabel & Bunny's apts, and I think Bunny used it in an attempt to escape her attacker. If Charles, Oliver & Mabel were still there partying, Bunny likely would have survived.
Alice, on top of the son of Sam card in her bag had a box of tissues, and the killer sneezed...
Cool theory about Howard, whom I have not suspected before because I did not see a motive. However, if he did find Evelyn's leg in Charles' freezer, that would give him a motive. If that's the case, he could be working with Alice, who we now know is also a pick-pocket (she had to steal a blonde card to fool Oliver). Alice's gallery is called the Third Arm Gallery, but as a group they could be known as the Third Arm Collective (TAC) - spell it backwards & you have CAT. Could the show-runners be hinting that Alice is a cat-burglar & also associated with Howard, who's a cat lover? Apologies for the far-out theory!
I think Alice filmed Mabel cutting her artwork with an axe to get dirt on her. Then she will drop the video when they are getting close to solving who did it. I don’t think Alice is the killer but she could be working for them.
I agree Howard is involved. Evelyn's foot might still be in the freezer. If she walked through Tim's blood to make those paw prints, she'd have blood on her paw. Howard would have seen it. Are Evelyn's paws still bloody or did Howard clean them off? Charles does say he was acting with the fainting. So he can act. He's also a performer in yodelshop and we hear him yodeling this season, like we heard Jan play her bassoon last season. Howard has been trying to get close to the trio. They find the painting- he knocks on the door and tries to get in. They find the knife- he walks in but they push him out.
But, Lucy said "they". I think it's him, Dr Stanley and Liam. They were all bullied on the board by Bunny and Nina. If Jan and Dr Stanley were on 6, perhaps next door neighbors, maybe she could hear them plotting this through the vents.
I think they're using the painting as a red herring; it might be a crime unrelated to the murder. I think Alice is involved with it.
The theme this season is family. Whoever killed Bunny was in some way a part of her family. Maybe a child or grandchild that she disowned. That’s why she says the person she had lunch with was not her friend.
LOVE that thought. Though I did skip my family reunion this weekend. How do you imagine that the killer will be related to Bunny? Child? Sibling? Parent?
A theory I have about Ivan not necessarily killer but relating to the family thing: do you think bunny might have had a kid and gave them up and that kid could be Ivan this could also explain the money
@@vivienneflory3287 I thought about this too. I wondered if she gave up more than one kid - and that's why Ivan is "her favorite." I feel like when he offers to get her the tea and doesn't dial into the deeper meaning of her statement she seems sad.
I have a couple of questions about Howard being the killer: if he passed out at the blood, why are his glasses intact, is Howard physically fit enough to climb the ladders in the pathways, and (not Howard related) we only have Lenore’s word the painting is a forgery, maybe she is only saying that to get it back easier?
I love questions like this. As someone who doesn't wear glasses, I assume people have more than one pair. I don't think the physically fit question will come up. Great note about the painting. The show will focus on the painting, then the show doesn't focus on the painting. I assume Lenora's the only person who can tell the podcast 3 (and the audience) the truth about the painting - so I'm going to assume she tells 'the truth'
I was notified by youtube the first day angels with flip-flops came out and I had a blast playing it on repeat.. thanks for the shout out and for thinking of informing me tho 💕!! Pitta putta! 🎉😇
I just realized that Alice has the blue coveralls (at 11:50), and I believe the shoes she's wearing match. I also have some questions that I haven't seen answered. The killer knocked on Bunny's door and was let into Bunny's apartment. How did she end up in Mabel's apartment. What really made Alice reach out to Mabel?
Ok, sudden epiphany, let me float a kinda new theory... Alice is an artist, but we've seen her do fairly perfect replicas. For example, she built a set that looks like Mabel's house. Also, she recreated Mabel's mural. What if Alice is also the one who did the forgery of the painting? If she was the one that had been calling Bunny, perhaps Alice wanted her own painting back for some reason and Bunny kept refusing. What if THAT is the reason Bunny was killed? Hence, Bunny saying "Savage", since that was on the back of the forgery. Perhaps to identify the forgery as the one that was sought?
In your assessment of episode 2, you posited the thought of Howard not being the killer, but potentially being the one planting evidence. What if Howard is killer adjacent. If he was behind the scenes and saw the murder, but not the murderer? What if he's watched Bunny before and knew someone was after the painting, so upon seeing the murder, he grabbed the painting. The knife wasn't found at the scene, so what if Howard followed the person and saw where they disposed of the knife? What if the reason Howard placed these items in their apartment, wasn't to frame them, but to provide them the evidence they'd need to solve the murder? That would also explain the look on Howard's face and the fake scream when Uma found the painting missing.
I'm probably far off, but it's a theory. Alice's ability to basically replicate art really makes me think she is the one who painted the forgery.
In the video of the diner, there's a lot of focus on the person that Bunny was talking to, but what was the waitress behind her doing? She looks like she picks something up off the floor even though she didn't seem to drop anything, then gestures at the people in the other booth, then leaves without serving them anything. It might be nothing, but they do like to misdirect people.
Edit to add, someone said H.H Holmes vibes, and H+H was in the heart at the prison, so maybe that's the easter egg to point to it being that kind of a building with far more secrets inside.
ANOTHER note - in the opening credits from the first series, there's an easter egg in the crest on the gate outside of the building as a clue. It's not just about 'easter eggs' being in the opening credits, but who hands out easter eggs? The Easter Bunny. Easter eggs are also usually in bright colours, like tie-dye, and Bunny is murdered while in a tie-dye hoodie. Sometimes the clues go deeper than we think. The three blobs of different colours in the Lava Lamp could also be a clue.
One of my friends thought the super fans were suspects too...
I wouldn't want it to be the superfans, but if they make it a clever narrative about Marv, I could get on board
I was side eyeing Charles stepdaughter, but she is a good kid- let´s hope she is not the killer!
Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today....
I don't think she is cause... what's her motive?
Theory: Alice I think is a misdirection... although there's some facts that would paint her as the killer...pun.... she knew who rose cooper was and would def have knowledge of the price for painting and may have been able to make a duplicate it to pull an ocean's 12 .... now what if Charles father did die, but while in prison brags about how the woman he allegedly killed painted a picture of him that's now worth millions.... gets out and starts bothering bunny about the painting???? And lastly .... maybe one of Cinda's protégés wanted to protect HER podcast and tried to frame them again to stir up trouble for the purpose of getting on cindas good side
And Charles' dad met Oscar while he was in the joint. Fun to think about but I doubt the writers would go that far afield.
Ivan told Bunny that he’d heard from the previous day’s server that Bunny had been there with the “friend.” I wonder if someone can ask that other server to describe the person Bunny was with.
That would be too logical!
@@DoublePMedia haha obviously!
I think Bunny’s killer is a woman from what we can make out in the brief scene of her being killed. I also think that she was killed by accident due to the unfortunate timing of her wearing the hooded sweatshirt. I also think that the champagne bottle that she gave to Mabel and Oliver is a big clue as to who Bunny’s killer is. I think Teddy Dimas’ deaf son fits the build of the character wandering around the secret passageways at night as we know that he and his father smuggled jewellery and other valuables around in the hotel.
It the scene depicting the history of the building and it’s architect in 1908, the architect looked just like Teddy with a mustache. ….same actor…? Significance..?
Yes but the guy turned to where Lucy was hiding cause he thought he heard something and theo is deaf also weren't dad and son in jail at the time?
Theo and Teddy were in jail when Bunny got killed, they were released after she died, so it can't be them. My money is on Cinda, she has the most motive to feel threatened by the trio, and like Jan she won't be given airtime until later episodes in order to avoid our suspicion around her.
I think the killer is Mark if you remember Bunny told Nina that Mark was an impulsive liar. And he looked suspicious as those two were talking on the bench on the courtyard
Howard fits just as Jan said he tried 2 times to get close to them, it always stays with me when they said showing at memorial is classic guilty person move. And who was there? Last year they gave us crucial clue in episode 2. And then distracted with side mystery
Wonderful point!
Howard faints at the sight of blood…
I went back and listened to the Mabel/Tim scene from season 1 at the fountain…it’s debatable whether he says “A” or “E”; but I lean towards “E” which means there wasn’t any switch of apts as has been surmised in a number of locations.
If so, then the closed caption text was incorrect and has led us down a wrong rabbit-hole
@@DoublePMedia Go give it a listen, you’ll see what I mean
So I think it’s Alice… Marc might be her dad, her dad was a plumber he mentioned something about working at the arconia and knows about the passageways and has a daughter that came out.. kinda sounds like Alice and she might’ve changed her name… or Alice could be bunny’s daughter and feels entitled to whatever bunny owned and that’s why she killed her… idk still thinking about it or she’s Jan’s daughter
I like that theory that Alice is Marv's daughter. But didn't he say he wasn't invited to be wedding? Alice isn't married...or is she? Or does he have 2 daughters?
Where did the knife come from?. Oliver’s apartment. Who’s artistic? Oliver’s son. Who grew up in the arconia? Oliver’s son. But what would be the fascination with the painting. Just a thought but not sold on it
Oliver’s son is a vet…this is the first time he’s directing & he’s completely lost. I DO find it funny Will & Mabel have never been in a scene together…Will was the one who outed Mabel to Oliver & Charles last season as knowing Tim.
So devastated for Oliver finding out he is not Will's father. S/N: I'm really starting to believe the #8 has some significance. On your recap of episode 3 I noticed the photo you posted of the main 3 where Selena(Mabel is wearing a red dress) the cards thrown up in the air....2 of the cards are the 3 of clubs and 5 of clubs(3+5=8). Why is that number so significant?
BTW I just found this podcast and I am loving it.
When they talk about bunny’s day bunny says that she lives in the same apartment since she was little.. so that would be 12A so why did young Tim Kono tell Mabel her aunt lives in 12A but now lives in 12E… if Mabel’s aunt lived in 12A when Mabel was little wouldn’t she know about the elevator? Where is her aunt anyways? Could Bunny be Mabel’s aunt lover? She’s been gone idk how long and Bunny has been giving Ivan more and more money for the last 7 years.. what happened in Bunny’s life for her to change?
If you go back & listen, it’s hard to tell if the actor says 12A or 12E…I think it was 12E all along and the transcriber for closed captioning got it wrong
Nice grand unifying theory! I will be watching for more clues!
More to come! Who should we do next?
I love your Howard theory... but this show is too good... we haven't seen all the information yet. I LIVE for this show and all analysis shows... yours is the best. I'm going to rewarch the episode and talk with my work group show club... I'll come back to post our theories before Tuesday!!!! Much love from DC
We need ALL the theories :) Spent many a NYE in DC at the Black Cat, I think, I was drinking :)
I think each new person showing up in each characters life is gonna play a crucial part in figuring out maybe even have something to do with the killing. ( Alice, Lucy ,and Oliver’s son)
One additional thing about Howard. Before the homeowner's
meeting Howard had taken Mrs. Gambolini out of Bunny's
bedroom and brought her into the living room.
He said to Dr. Grover Stanley, "Bunny seemed upset that we moved the cage, but
Mrs. Gambolini needed to be at the party, right?"
This means that he and Dr. Stanley, 'we moved....' were in her bedroom and could have seen
the painting.
The exculpatory part is that Bunny was not talking with Howard or with Dr. Grover Stanley
with disgust at that meeting, the disgust which she evidenced in the phone call about the painting and with
the person at the dinner. So... probably not Howard or Dr. Grover Stanley. Back to square one :)
The clue that keeps coming up for me are Mable's last words before going down to find Bunny
dying. "... some loose ends?"
I think that there is more than one mystery and definitely more than one suspects we don't know if the killer's motive was the painting even tho the painting is a key to something.Also people say that bunny's mom was actually the woman who made the painting.I am really curious about her mysterious death bunny's mom talked about..if the artist is fr dead,how was it mysterious?what happened?
So the whole show has been about failed relationships: Charles & Jan, Charles & his Girlfriend, Sazz & Charles's Girlfriend, Oliver & his Wife, Mable & Oscar, Tim & Jan, Teddy & Theo, Teddy & Oscar's Wife, Charles's Father & Bunny's Mother, Charles's Father and Rose Cooper, Lucy & 5 Step Fathers, there isn't one stable relationship. Howard is lonely, Dr. Grover Stanley is desperate, Tim was desperate, and Uma is bitter. The only relationship that has lasted is Bunny and her parrot. Makes me want to binge Date Line just to avoid ending up on Date Line. Bunny was the only person that managed to figure out what was important to her and so they killed her. This is like Mayberry R.F.D.; the only married person was the town drunk.
Starting to question whether Alice is British at all.
Would love for her to switch from posh British to a harsh Jersey accent ‘Nu Yawk!’
Love the show and love 😊Salena ❤❤❤
Marv's pants seem to match the glitter bomb suspect's on the train?!
This is the only time you can get me to think about Marv’s pants
I think Oliver's telling Teddy not to cheat, and that he's the killer spoke volumes. I still think both were out of prison at the time, but even if they were in prison, their reach is long.
I think Alice had another reason for holding the party at Mabel's; she wanted another reason to be in the building, but it's not clear what. Was that the first time 'Malice' spent the night at the Arconia? She was actually NOT fiddling with her hair when she spoke to Oliver and Charles at the party, but he had a reason to suspect her, she is shady/deceitful.
I am not loving the Charles/Janice storyline. I guess having a crazy killer find you fascinating is better than nothing but is it? I think the killer is someone they know or know OF, but is not close to them..
Would love for Teddy to be Bunny's killer --- should we assume he meant to kill Mabel? Also, why wouldn't Teddy hire someone? Like his muscle that picked up Oliver and Mabel at the funeral home.
@@DoublePMedia I don't see Teddy killing Mabel; it would be a 'dead' giveaway as he clearly has motive, but if he did, Teddy would hire someone (I think the muscle from the funeral home is a strong prospect too).Theo has rage issues and would do the deed himself.
This episode broke me. Will not being Oliver's 😔😔
Teddy saying he gonna fuck oliver well he kinda already did
Well isnt it obvious?
@@Missmagazinebura nope, it wasn't
It was such a shock that the story turned in this direction, I was thrown off for a bit. Didn't know if I liked the episode.
I'm holding out hope somehow the info is wrong ... somehow Teddy found out a way to fake the DNA tests cause he promised Oliver he'd fuck him - and there's nothing Oliver values more than his family. But that's likely wishful thinking.
I agree with your theory completely, except I don't think it's Howard who was waiting for Mabel in her apartment. Howard is innocent!
Please. Please be correct :)
the person who poisoned winnie, is the person who knows about Jan, and the same person who wants the painting. Someone perhaps really needs money? Why would someone try to kill Winnie? Idk...
I can see Howard being the masked guy in the secret passage, searching for his new kitten. That's how her last cat may have gotten into Tim Kono's apartment. Now, it means he knows about the secret passage yes, but is he the killer? I don't think so.
Also, Bunny was attacked in her apartment, so how did she get into Mabel's? By the secret passage. Which means that whoever stabbed her didn't try to frame Mabel like we thought since episode 1, unlike with Charles and Oliver. And whoever stabbed Bunny may have seen her escape from the secret passage and discovered it at this moment. Then, the killer comes up with a plan using the secret passage to frame them. The fact that Mabel isn't targeted yet let me believe that it could be Alice, who may have taken a real liking in her. Alice could be related to Bunny ( her niece?). She may be the one dining with her, and since she is an artist, asking about the painting, which would also be an unheritance. Charles could be Bunny's brother, so she try to frame him for the murder AND the painting.
@Cloud Puffs the newest episode with Mabel on the subway, her loss of memory and the very first episode of the first season make me think: what if Mabel found Bunny stabbed with the knife in her appartment and kind of zoomed out, putting the needle into Bunny herself? She obviously has some... issues.
Maybe the killer even followed Bunny through the passage way and was there when Mabel arrived, and she tried to take down the killer, but accidentally missed and the needle hit Bunny? I don't know, but I definitely think that's possible and she wasn't supposed to get framed. I actually think that Charles and Oliver didn't get the text to protect them from getting framed. The police was on their way before they got the text, it wouldn't make a difference. I actually believe they got the text as a trap to be framed, but it didn't work out the way the killer wanted because they went to Mabels appartment instead of getting out of the building... maybe they were supposed to look like running away from the scene. It wasn't planned that Mabel would be on the crime scene at that exact time.
I agree that Howard is the killer. I can't get past him since episode two. Lucy is not the killer. I think Lucy texted them to get out of the building though.
But she wouldn’t have Oliver’s number. 🤷♀️
Lucy didn't text, the lady cop did. Charles has Lucy's number saved in his phone, but when he got the "Get out of the building" text, Charles said he didn't recognize the number.
I rewatched the last scene of season 1 episode 10 when the trio is walked out by the cops past the other tenants, the super fans, and Cinda & Poppy. I reviewed it multiple times and everyone seems to be present EXCEPT HOWARD. That definitely seems like a clue.
Please let me know if he’s there and I just missed him since I really like him and don’t want him to be the killer
yes!!
I suspect Teddy Dimas because of course he hates Mabel and Charles, and even more Oliver because he "stole" his son and he had the SAME boots than the killer.
And I'm not sure I understand the "two killers" thing but I think there is just one. (sorry if my english is not good I'm french 😅)
Tres Bien
Since I don't want it to be Howard either, I think we can also look at itin this way: Rather than Jan pointing at Howard as a suspect, why did she want to get the attention off the Dimases? Does she know something about them? Maybe about Oliver? When they were the main suspect in that episode in S1 why was she trying to pin it to Howard without any evidence whilst the Dimases looked pretty guilty?
Also I am still wondering who stabbed Jan in the first season? Could it be one of the Dimases? Because she knew that Will wasn't Oliver's son? And who poisoned Winnie? Because personally I don't think Jan was placing all the threatening messages in season 1
Yes, yes. Keep these smart thoughts coming!
@@vefakitsaki Jan confessed she stabbed herself in season finale to Charles (around the time Mabel finds the knife in the vent in Jan’s apartment). I think there is a relationship between the 2 6th floor residents…Teddy & Jan.
@@irishted13 I believe so too!! Something is going on with Jan and the Dimases I’m so sure
I think Amy Schumer is suspicious. She stays on the penthouse -> 14th floor. Bunny knows everyone in the building and will be able to say the names. However, Amy Schumer would be new to the building and Bunny, in her age, may not remember her name.
Are u talking about that woman who lives in stinks' apartment?cause she seems sus to me too
Bunny could have been how Howard got a black eye. Bunny had the bird for over a decade, so if Howard was a friend wouldn't the bird know his name?
Being an ex server …..it’s not unusual to receive big tips from regulars……even if the tips are extreme, never question the generosity
I‘m still stuck with Alice. She wanted legitimacy to her name. She needed the painting. Her father (I‘m leaning on the Theorie that the Superfan is her dad, and she’s not even British)…. I’m reaching but I don’t like her sudden appearance out of nowhere only after Mables murial got hyped cause of the publicity. Her perfect way to move closer to see whats going on
Alice is def suspicious but not the murderer
jan and howard were DEFINITELY in kahoots. she was so quick to change the subject when his name was brought up! whether it was as friends or enemies, there was clearly some kind of relationship going on between them off-screen that we have yet to discover
Maybe. Jan is getting close to Charles cause she knows he's a sucker and lonely and she'll get hot goss about the investigation. Could Howard be the one planting stuff perhaps in people's apartments? But I still think he's just a creeper looking for hot goss in the passages. He saw blood somewhere in the passages and fainted giving him the black eye. Did he only see post attack blood or during the attack?
Jan did like to pick up men in the elevator
The entrance to the air duct in Mable's apt is next to the outside wall; the air duct in Bunny's apt is across the hall and adjacent to the hall at the entry. So the ductwork makes a bend at the outside wall, goes over the main hall, and then daylights at Bunny's. This makes sense; there was never a common wall between Mable's and Bunny's, but the duct running along between the units to a common main and then branching out across to Bunny's would make sense. The main trunk would run above the hallway, where the ceiling could be lower. To be fair, only in movies are they ducts large enough to crawl through for minor vents; it is known as the Bruce Willis vent. The building, even one this old, would probably have fire dampers between the units or the main trunk line above the hallway; these would allow sound through, but not anything thicker than 2".
Kim, Bruce Willis for season 3!
@@DoublePMedia The whole cast from Reds!
Bruce Willis, Frank Moses, Helen Mirren, Victoria, Morgan Freeman
I noticed the font on Alice's hand tattoo looked the same as the "XO XO XO" font on the envelope....
let me check this out!
Maybe, but those are Cara Delevigne’s real initials tattooed on her hand. Would be clever if the writers managed to write that in as an Ester egg though.
Don't forget someone left a note on Helen's door that someone was watching her.
So it can’t be Alice, she’s been seen using an iPhone.
I kind of agree here. I do believe Apple doesn’t like people using an iPhone in movies/shows if they are a criminal. So they don’t give their permission if the character using the iPhone is a criminal.
I love this channel ♥️♥️♥️
Thank you! We aim to please :)
Fun video!
Thanks!
Could the duplicate painting (remember that it was in a large frame) fit through the entrance in Charles's bathroom? Or would the thief/art-killer have to be somebody who could open his front door? We've seen Theo steal the master key from the front desk, but I doubt it's him.
I still think that Lucy is the one who stabbed Bunny with the knitting needle, but I also reckon there is at least one other person (somebody who stabbed Bunny with the knife and took the painting, or one person who stabbed Bunny and a third person who took the painting).
I think Ivan is Bunny's son, whom she gave up at birth and tracked down later in life in order to be a silent benefactor. Perhaps when she gave him away, she realised that she had nothing left (as she warned Nina) and focused her energy onto the Arconia.
Howard knew that the painting wasn't going to be in Bunny's apartment, if you watch episode 1 again you can see him clearly mimicking Una's reaction when she screams. He also just happens to turn up to almost catch the trio with the painting and then also the knife which is a big coincidence - can he hear them through a vent? Or had he planted the evidence both times?
Howard was supposed to come over & fill them in on some info…it’s what Mabel says as they enter the apartment
Howard always brings the 'hot gos' - except when he doesn't
There are a lot of interesting things that may be clues, but the toxicology report being blocked - that's unlikely a red herring - it's gotta "mean" something. But the only reason I can think of to block the report is to protect Jan. Right? Who wants to protect Jan? Is there another motivation for making his death seem like suicide? And...how does that link to anything now? Is Tim's death still an open problem? I can't even begin theorizing on this one. I completely don't get it.
Helen, I think the writer's had the toxicology report blocked... because they wanted the Podcast Trio to learn Tim was murdered. If the police had done the tox, they'd have known he'd was poisoned, etc. Now the writers have to come up with a compelling REASON it was blocked.
Oof. That’s probably it.
I do wonder what Mabel’s referring to when she says on the rooftop that there are loose ends. I remember thinking that too - but I was thinking of the note on Jan’s door which M wouldn’t have known about. It made me think it was the tox report.
Someone in the police dept, also, didn't send the phone in for the techs to analyze. Detective Williams said someone in the dept wanted the case closed, & she sent Tim's phone to Mabel. I'm wondering if the new detective doesn't have something to do with supressing the evidence from Tim's death.
I know there are a lot of father/child dynamics going on, and I'm wondering if "Son of Sam" just emphasizes the disconnect between Oliver and Will if they're not biologically related, or if it's a clue to focus on sons
Too smart! Brilliant
theyve made an emphasis on the color blue and the charles character
Yea, you're definitely obsessed with Howard.
I like the Marv theory, he's a real creep, maybe he even did it to get a second season...
The painting doesn't connect to it though, must've been another person involved into that
I’ll give up Marv if Howard can stay on the show!
Hey about your unifying theory I don't find it as unifying as it should be. Apart from Bunny's dying words, there is the whole painting part that doesn't fit into this at all. Why would Howard meet with Bunny the day before in the diner? And if Howard knew about the painting, don't you believe Uma would know that Howard knows? (making that scene at Bunny's appartment unnecessary) Why wasn't that particular heated meeting mentionned or even hinted at at the board meeting? There isn't any kind of animosity between Bunny and Howard at that meeting, it seems weird.
Finally assuming Howard is a fainter in front of blood, how would he manage to stab Bunny 8 TIMES without fainting and why wouldn't Bunny, someone who works out as we saw in E3, be able to overpower Howard, who isn't exactly the strongest... physically?
The number of stabs makes me think that: A- Bunny was the targeted person and she wasn't mistaken as Mabel/Oscar or somebody else B- the number 8 means a lot to the killer1
If I didn't make it clear, I have no idea whom the person after the painting would be. I think the painting isn't related to the murder
in one episode, can't remember in which, we see someone dressed in what could been work pants and boots..in episode 5 Alice is dressed similar..and for secret passage in Mabel room- in pilot when Mabel tells a story of her dream how she wake and seen a man standing over her..that man is wearing ski mask just like a man Lucy saw in secret passage..could that be somekind of foreshadowing?
I think Alice made the fake painting but theo hired her and theo needed money to start a new life but Alice goes by the door while theo at the passage way and Bonnie sees Alice at the door and they get into an fight but at the same time theo comes threw the passage way and graphs the nearest thing a knive and Bonnie runs into the passage and theo drops the knive in the passage way and drops the cigarette box and Bonnie's ends up in Mable apartment and theo finds the closet weapon a knitting knive and later retrieves the knive and puts it in charles apartment and realize that anyone who knows about it would know its a fake and the second Bonnie died the painting became evidence and motive and he planting evidence into the group beacuse they are the ones who ruined his life and a heist became a murder.
Theo! It makes sense but I think Theo was in jail still during the murder.
@@vanessaamesty6739 shit true either I'm wrong or he got probation
@@vanessaamesty6739 he would properly get probation do to zoey death Being accident and manslaughter and his dad is loaded he could just pay bail
Only thing is that we know the knife actually belonged to Oliver bc he said it in the last episode.
Theo wasn’t in jail Teddy was I believe.
Alice wasn’t son of Sam! She was the innocent blonde, who gave the card to Oliver. In the scene, Mabel was holding her card!! 😳
in the bed scene, you can see the son if sam card in what i assume is alices purse
There is a theory going around, I didn't want to mention it because I couldn't confirm, but wanted to hint at the theory: People claim Mabel and Alice were switching cards. You can maybe see it, but I wasn't 100% sure
What if Alice is Jan's daughter and Jan is helping her from jail
Oh hell yes, that would be a BRILLIANT idea.
Yes! Jan told Alice about Charles' old peeping tom movie.
Absolutely love that idea
@@outnumberedbbq I like this idea but couldn't Alice have found that tidbit on the Internet, like on IMDb?
I believe they both ask “are we okay?” In this episode
Mabel probably already knew about the secrets passage way.
Jan killed dead and I was in tears
Appreciate yr Howard theory as a good one, also separates Alice & painting storyline, just push & shove, with Bunny being in Mabels apartment where shes killed. Bunny in this apartment calls police before targetted by Howard or killer.
Marv likely Alice's father, as he noted in the Pickle, his daughter had just told him.
Also are we looking for a team of two in the action or who storylines? timing of death, timing of torch at Lucy, timing of police. Who rang the police.
Therefore shoes exiting lift could be Alice as wearing fathers cleaning ppc, and in her apartment this episode she is wearing same blue overalls with arms tied (or less likely its Lucy stepping out of elevator)
Bringing Marv into equation as need a tall male to be with Mabel on train.
Martin Short spoke of the Coney Island scenes as action for Mabel so plenty of good episodes to follow.
Just as Oliver sighted Teddy & Theo it is possible Teddy been spying on Oliver & his son. Will being Teddys son takes the investigation into a whole new direction including S3.
Keen to know if Nathan Lane's guest appearance extends to season 3 !! Hadnt thought of him being the target but an excellent link.
Selena look so good in this episode like always tho
Mabel, Zoe, Fawn Hall, Nina, Poppy, Uma, Jan, Bunny - this show is filled with attractive people
I think theo or will is the mystery man who ment Bonnie at the diner
Will possibly
@Cloud Puffs true that's what I was thinking so most likely theo
How do we know it was a guy at the diner that met Bunny?
@@matth.7388 it's look straight like a guy and was built like a guy
I don't trust alice. She has a video of Mabel destroying the sculpture with an axe
So if Mabel lives on the 12th floor and Charles on the 14th, I’m confused on how the killer would’ve come down through the vent and ended up on Charles’ floor (assuming Lucy was hiding in the secret passageway on the 14th floor). Maybe they climbed up levels within the passageway?
I agree. There have to be some laws of physics with the passages. It was too fast the figure ended up in the passage after bunny's scream.
I feel there's more than 1 person. The one in the boots had the knife in his/her left hand. The one on passageway(where Lucy was) had flashlight in right hand. Different dominant hands.
Maybe Alice was Tim Konos “other woman”. Could they have been in some scheme to steal from tenants in the building?
There was no other woman…Jan found the ring & THOUGHT there was another woman; but didn’t know Tim was gathering evidence against the Dimas’ (and that ring was the ring that Zoe had on the night when she died; but gave back to Theo before he accidentally pushed her off the roof)
My thoughts: A1) Bunny sells her painting, for her retirement. 2) Plus, to payoff the Russians that are blackmailing her. 3) Ivan is the middle man. 4) Police would have investigated Ivan because of the large sum of money, that is why Ivan put the money back, he also knows how to get into building. 5) Ivan points to the camera, but why didn't he do it the first time. 6) Handwriting on the envelope needs to be checked. 7) Ivan or his helper killed Bunny.
B2) Lucy, after the scream, went to check on Bunny, Lucy pulls the knife out, realizes her fingerprints our on it, and hears someone coming puts the the knitting needle in. 2) Puts the knife in Oliver's place, and finds it (ha ha) later. 3) Takes Bunny's painting, and puts it in Charles' place, knowing that it is a fake.
Why would the Russians be blackmailing Bunny?
what Jan said about the Murderer being an artist .... kinda makes Oliver really really really suspect but i dont want him to be a killer
She also said storyteller I’m thinking that was the subtler clue in that scene maybe pointing to cinda canning or someone else??
@@vivienneflory3287 yeah maibe
Nah oliver isn't the killer
@@cookiesandmilk686 sure he is not but the clue does also Point to him
I am 100% sure that Lucy sent this message to Charles and Oliver that night. I mean it’s obvious. She saw this man in the secret passageways and she also heard bunny screaming.
I could see her sending a message to Charles-- how would she have Oliver's number?
@@DoublePMedia yeah I had the same thought but I can’t think of anyone else. Also why did this person sent this message only to Charles and Oliver and not to Mabel? What if the killer texted only them because he really wanted to frame only Mabel ? 👀🤷♂️
But it was Lucy, why would she want the matchstick evidence? Didn't they text that number, which they presumed for Detective Williams, and figured out they were actually texting the killer desperate for their hands on the evidence? Lucy doesn't seem to be the killer so far..
Or maybe she could be? If the person who texted them, is in fact Lucy, then she may be lying about the person in the vents. It is her story, we are not sure/have no evidence that it is in fact the truth. She ran away from her mom, who we still do not know much about and we're not sure why exactly she made that decision, and she couldn't be sure if Charles would take her in as well. So she stole the painting for money and had to kill off Bunny? Weak theory I know, but could be possible...
@@yuvashreep2187 I’m sure Lucy is not the killer because we saw that she saw the killer in the secret passage ways. Also I wrote this theory before I watch the sixth episode and now I’m 100% sure that Lucy did NOT texted them that night.
@@justboredlol79 Yes Lucy is definitely not the killer! But she knows something more for sure.
I do not think that it is Howard but am leaning towards Lucy and Theo
Working together or separately?
I think Howard is just a gossip and lurks thru the passages. He might be doing the bidding of someone else just to feel important.
Oh by the way did you all see the Black Boots Alice wore in Episode 5 ?
I really hope Teddy forged the DNA test of Will, it was my first thought! Fingers crossed..
I'll mention on the next podcast, but there's a *chance* that Teddy and Roberta fooled around BEFORE she married Oliver. Not that they shouldn't have told Oliver about it, but still...
Maybe Lucy didn't say anything to Charles about the killer in the passage way is beacuse Lucy knows it is theo Maybe the time Lucy lived with Charles she befriended a younger theo and saw him as a older brother and he is the one who showed Lucy the passageway and she is thinking it is him beacuse as far as she knows only two people know about the passage way her and theo
Theo thought to himself: Zoe was perfect, but couldn't get back up after a fall. Hello Lucy, lets be friends
@@DoublePMedia I think Lucy would have befriended theo before zoey fall
But Theo is deaf, so unlikely he would’ve heard Lucy hiding in the passageway/ turned to point the flashlight that way.
@@Kbrick352 true fair point
Lucy played in the passages when she lived with Charles. She & Arnov's( Charles' neighbor) daughter played in those passages.
The Brazzos set theory is really good!! But who and why??
I think young Tim Kono said 12A but he's got a bit of an accent. I watch a lot of shows with CC, and they frequently make mistakes like that where the words sound similar.
Wait... Howard wrote the "I'm lonely" note? I thought that was written by Jan with the weird J's that Charles notices?
That’s the odd disconnect
@@DoublePMedia Do you remember what episode we learn this? It's just so strange! I want to rewatch that part. It feels either a massive clue or a massive writer oversight (like when little Tim said to Mabel "12a, I like her". Ahh!
@@joyindrelie6715 In s1e10, Charles tells Jan that he caught her because her 'J' was the same 'J' in 'I'm lonely' note.
But while the 'J's' do match. No other letters do.
It's Howard's handwriting of the Board Meeting revealed in s2e3 that match the 'I'm lonely' note.
@@DoublePMedia Thank you!!!
@@DoublePMedia I can understand why you're feeling confirmation bias towards Howard!
How did alice get the extra innocent blonde card that she slammed into oliver? did she take two slyly, did she pickpocket mabel's? am i misremembering?
Thats what I thought too, that she had 2 cards. Im pretty sure Oliver gave her the son of sam card thats why hes confused
She probably took one of the players cards who were already taken out of the game.
Alice owns a full body work suit (maybe more of varying colors) that she wears with boots. Was she in the building that night?
Pickle Rick did it!
Is it werid I ship charles and Jan while I still think she crazy
Jan is amazing
@@vanessaamesty6739 Still creepy for killing Tim with a big smile
@@damianespana9753 She is super crazy that's why she is one of the best characters, I'm so happy they included her this season.
She just gets him :)
Amy Ryan is a very endearing actress. Makes her a great psychopath.
PLease dont let Howard be the killer cuz he doesnt like the sight of blood
I’m with you! Don’t let it be Howard!
Theory: I think Bunny’s death itself is a huge misdirection! I think the killer mistook her for Mabel and a the killer thought he was killing Mabel. Who has the motive to kill Mabel?
Doesn't make sense the killer knocked bunny's door he/she saw bunny and attacked her
unifying theory doesn’t work because bunny died in mabel’s arms, not enough time for howard to faint or set up knitting needles
That could be true... but we don't know how long Mabel was up on the roof. Long enough to go thru one bottle of champagne.
i think bunnys killer is charles dad
RIGHT now i think im leaning towards Will or Alice
Also wonder who charles’s ex’s new husband is and if he is connected in any way.
If Lucy's mom doesn't show up this season, who do you want to fan-cast in the role?
@@DoublePMedia okay I was deeply considering this question and then I came across Toni Colette’s name and nodded vigorously, so I’m going to say Toni Colette. :)
@@DoublePMedia Melora Hardon, Jan from the office would be so meta.
If Marv is the killer, maybe 14 is actually "for Tim" Kono
Oh hell yes!
Why only if marv was killer?
@@matth.7388 Marv tells Bunny that he orginally believed Bunny killed Tim Kono, so he would be the most likely to say it. It would also be the clearest motive for him to kill Bunny.
Would it be crazy for the killer to be Marv?!?!
Wait who is Marv i forgot
@@cookiesandmilk686 the podcast superfan who "has a job".
What's the gut milk lady's name? She was kinda sketchy throwing away papers the day the painting was found by the blonde lady.
Ursula
@@DoublePMedia oh yeah. Thanks