Not to necessarily argue with you, but I don't think this is an issue with people "not understanding," as much as it's an issue with you not understanding the landscape. Fighting games are at their absolute best they've ever been right now. Money is going to be the largest driving force for competitive play, because you get higher payouts when the publishers are backing the tournaments, you get publishers backing tournaments when their most recent game is being advertised, and of course it makes for a more balanced game. More people than ever are playing Tekken and Street Fighter, which are the games that I play, and I'd say I'm fairly competitive, but nowhere near pro. The fact that we have so many amazing fighting games coming out lately, and as I'm typing this, the Tekken 8 CNT is going on, and I'm personally loving every second of it, is honestly amazing. The fact that devs are seeing things like Rashid launching with the level 2 tornado glitch, and immediately fixing it so EVO isn't completely ruined is wild. I have Tekken 5DR on arcade in my living room, and while I still play it plenty, Tekken 8 is the much better game, and it's nowhere near done. Accessibility will always draw more people in, and pros are much more impressive from the perspective of someone who truly understands how hard it is to be at their level, and with something like Tekken 5DR, a casual player that never could learn from a match that a pro would give them would not give any room for them to truly understand the skill gap. As far as the two games I've been mentioning specifically and smash, I always get rewarded more for playing better and having more character and game knowledge, so to imply that current fighting games don't reward that is just blatantly wrong. Like, I'll be the first to say that people should keep playing these older games, because they are fun and hype, and there are plenty of dead or dying franchises that have an air about them that you won't get anywhere else, but like I mentioned before, money is the biggest driving force with the actual tournament scene's relationship with what's current. Sorry for the book. I just wanted to throw another perspective here, because it's hard to hear that Tekken 5DR can touch Tekken 8 while I'm currently playing it. I also don't think 3rd Strike is "slept on," since everyone I know that plays fighting games still runs 3rd Strike. I will agree that people should probably get Dark Stalkers out of their mouth if they aren't willing to play it. I play VSAV3 on fightcade every once in a while.
Excellent video. I agree with your analysis and philosophy on gaming completely. Competitive games being balanced and having a very high ceiling in terms of skill and expression, along with having stood the test of time are what makes them an interesting and rewarding endeavor, especially for a grown man. And they also make things easier for new players getting into the game, with exhibitions of high level play being a major source of attraction, and (real) accessibility being facilitated by the comprehensiveness and long term reliability of learning resources. Unfortunately a lot of resistance to these ideas comes from misguided people who feel smart and sophisticated by analyzing and pointing out the corporate interest of game producers and publishers, as well as the interest of youtube content creators who want always new releases and new updates in order to drive up views. They forget their own role in the economy and their own interest as players, which should be to make sure that new games are actually better than previous ones and are not a waste of time and money. Either that or they get caught up in the temporary appeal of new gimmicks, or in bogus marketing narratives of "accessibility".
This is the best comment I've gotten on the video. To a lot of people I probably sound elitist and pretentious but honestly I'm just jaded that a lot of people are blinded and I hate to be emotional about it but it's just hard when hardly anyone agrees with you I appreciate you looking past my frustration.
Very cool video. I also don't like new gen competitive games releasing balance patches way too frequently and not giving players time to learn counterplay. melee had 1 balance patch for the EU release but in every other region we've played the same patch for 22 years (aside from modern QOL implementations).
i wish franchises had a recent game / legacy game scene as big as smash does w melee n ult. tekken 5 and 8 being played simultaneously would be sick. sf having more 3rd strike or USF4 tournaments outside of arcades would be sick. i dont really see it as "the better player should be rewarded harder for being better on the 'better' game", moreso "a franchise having multiple active competitive scenes is mutually beneficial"
Other than the fact that you talk like you're on Xanax, this was a good video. A lot of good factuals here. I agree about keeping the "best" version relevant, even if it's not outpacing the newest version on any metric. But it often comes down to money too, as all things do.
I did this in one take and didn't write a script so my thoughts were all over the place it's funny that you say that though I've actually never taken drugs my default state is Xanax. 7Xanaxguy
This is so true for an example no one likes the Soulcalibur games after the second game and it turns out Soulcalibur 2 is the most competitive game in the series go figure. No create a character, no reversal edge or other forced slapped on gimmicks just pure gameplay.
Fox is technically demanding, but once you have those skills, there is a lot you can do to cancel out other character's options. I was a ganon main in melee, and while the execution of some of his tech might be slightly easier than fox, playing neutral with ganon was much more difficult, sense most of the melee high tiers had really good tools at shutting down ganon (mainly fox and sheik). It is nice to have hard to use top tiers, but that doesn't mean that there are not big advantages to picking them up. Anyways nice video, really enjoyed it.
No I actually completely agree with everything you said I feel like the barrier to entry with fox is the hardest but at high-level or pro level if you have everything down all your options used perfectly make the game easier but getting there to that level is very hard
The problem is "the best" is a matter of preference. The newest is objective. Also, they can't make money shilling for a 15 year old game. People would rather spend money on shiny dlc costumes that show off current Gen graphics.
the problem with this is that the casuals are the one keeping the franchise alive and the company needs profit, they gonna sell the new game and the community is gonna follow suit most of the time, the melee stuff was more something out of nintendo not helping them and making a game backwards with what they wanted or close to it, they wanted to survive because their creators wanted them gone, while other companies actually move along with their community so it's normal they follow, things change and that is fine even if they are not the best games as the last one, i think you are in denial, and no, most ppl dont want a super hard old game, the majority want a easy game to pick up and that is fine, the casual audience is the priority while the hardcore or the pros basically just advertise the game with tournaments.
This is completely subjective. It probably goes without saying, but the criteria that people use to judge what game is better differs greatly from person to person. I think that’s why tournaments tend to use the newest game, because they understand that ultimately, you can’t determine what’s the “best game” in the series is.
i love how you think but unfortunately the masses of people want new things and easy outcomes. They want things now, they want to pay for the new visuals now; rather than invest the time to be good at something that we already have.
I play smash 64 competitively. Most people don't play it and don't understand it. There is such a high skill ceiling. The neutral game is so nuanced, you cant just throw attacks out or shield every attack like in smash ultimate. The game forces you to play perfect and its so fun. I've played every smash and 64 is easily the most technically demanding smash besides melee. It's such a good game.
There was a lot of problems with Tag 2 You’re right there are some issues with Tekken 7 as well but I love the game Quit complaining tho lol or at least try not to sound so awful lol I am sure there are things that the highest level players prefer in this game compared to some older entries in the franchise. Soul Calibur 2 obviously is an amazing game which fits the correct level of balance to be very high level and competitive. SC 6 is okay not as bad as SCV
@tristanreynolds5748 good game but you can't objectively call it the best. i mean it's control options are already a major red flag considering games after it actually made it so some people can play the game more comfortably, like me because default actually hurts me to play on, even then the gameplay is all subjective imo. I find the fight for the best is basically worthless since 9/10 it devolves to "you are stupid" when people don't agree
@ActionGamerAaron People do play smash 64 actually. I'm a part of that community and its growing more because of Remix too. It's not technically broken or anything at all and the roster is honestly really balanced.
@ActionGamerAaron Smash 64 isn't broken, if it was broken people wouldn't play it. It's a smaller game than most, but there's still active communities that play it all around north & south america, Japan, even Europe. I'm not sure about numbers but I'm 90% sure 64 is more alive than brawl and smash4. Also, it's very opposite of what you said, it has infinite technical expression and is very viable competitively. That's why there is such a range of skill levels amongst people that play it
they arent played because theyre the best, they are played because there are viewers who play the games and want to watch a professional level of them on display. If you want to organise tournies of your fav fighting games, do so, in your basement, with no advertisers and no viewers.
Also i don't think they play the newest, i think they just pick popular ones that'll have high turnout, why run one game if you might get closer to break even with another. There's a lot of business-based decisions that go into it imo.
Not to necessarily argue with you, but I don't think this is an issue with people "not understanding," as much as it's an issue with you not understanding the landscape. Fighting games are at their absolute best they've ever been right now. Money is going to be the largest driving force for competitive play, because you get higher payouts when the publishers are backing the tournaments, you get publishers backing tournaments when their most recent game is being advertised, and of course it makes for a more balanced game. More people than ever are playing Tekken and Street Fighter, which are the games that I play, and I'd say I'm fairly competitive, but nowhere near pro. The fact that we have so many amazing fighting games coming out lately, and as I'm typing this, the Tekken 8 CNT is going on, and I'm personally loving every second of it, is honestly amazing. The fact that devs are seeing things like Rashid launching with the level 2 tornado glitch, and immediately fixing it so EVO isn't completely ruined is wild. I have Tekken 5DR on arcade in my living room, and while I still play it plenty, Tekken 8 is the much better game, and it's nowhere near done. Accessibility will always draw more people in, and pros are much more impressive from the perspective of someone who truly understands how hard it is to be at their level, and with something like Tekken 5DR, a casual player that never could learn from a match that a pro would give them would not give any room for them to truly understand the skill gap. As far as the two games I've been mentioning specifically and smash, I always get rewarded more for playing better and having more character and game knowledge, so to imply that current fighting games don't reward that is just blatantly wrong. Like, I'll be the first to say that people should keep playing these older games, because they are fun and hype, and there are plenty of dead or dying franchises that have an air about them that you won't get anywhere else, but like I mentioned before, money is the biggest driving force with the actual tournament scene's relationship with what's current.
Sorry for the book. I just wanted to throw another perspective here, because it's hard to hear that Tekken 5DR can touch Tekken 8 while I'm currently playing it. I also don't think 3rd Strike is "slept on," since everyone I know that plays fighting games still runs 3rd Strike. I will agree that people should probably get Dark Stalkers out of their mouth if they aren't willing to play it. I play VSAV3 on fightcade every once in a while.
spitting 🗣️🗣️
I agree completely
Yes, the author didn’t address any of that…. Very important to contribute I think.
Fantastic Video.
Thanks I really appreciate it
Excellent video. I agree with your analysis and philosophy on gaming completely.
Competitive games being balanced and having a very high ceiling in terms of skill and expression, along with having stood the test of time are what makes them an interesting and rewarding endeavor, especially for a grown man. And they also make things easier for new players getting into the game, with exhibitions of high level play being a major source of attraction, and (real) accessibility being facilitated by the comprehensiveness and long term reliability of learning resources.
Unfortunately a lot of resistance to these ideas comes from misguided people who feel smart and sophisticated by analyzing and pointing out the corporate interest of game producers and publishers, as well as the interest of youtube content creators who want always new releases and new updates in order to drive up views. They forget their own role in the economy and their own interest as players, which should be to make sure that new games are actually better than previous ones and are not a waste of time and money. Either that or they get caught up in the temporary appeal of new gimmicks, or in bogus marketing narratives of "accessibility".
This is the best comment I've gotten on the video. To a lot of people I probably sound elitist and pretentious but honestly I'm just jaded that a lot of people are blinded and I hate to be emotional about it but it's just hard when hardly anyone agrees with you I appreciate you looking past my frustration.
Very cool video. I also don't like new gen competitive games releasing balance patches way too frequently and not giving players time to learn counterplay. melee had 1 balance patch for the EU release but in every other region we've played the same patch for 22 years (aside from modern QOL implementations).
i wish franchises had a recent game / legacy game scene as big as smash does w melee n ult. tekken 5 and 8 being played simultaneously would be sick. sf having more 3rd strike or USF4 tournaments outside of arcades would be sick. i dont really see it as "the better player should be rewarded harder for being better on the 'better' game", moreso "a franchise having multiple active competitive scenes is mutually beneficial"
Other than the fact that you talk like you're on Xanax, this was a good video. A lot of good factuals here. I agree about keeping the "best" version relevant, even if it's not outpacing the newest version on any metric. But it often comes down to money too, as all things do.
I did this in one take and didn't write a script so my thoughts were all over the place it's funny that you say that though I've actually never taken drugs my default state is Xanax. 7Xanaxguy
Cool video, I think you could edit out a bit of the blank space here when you’re just thinking about what you’re going to say next, or the uhhhs yknow
This is so true for an example no one likes the Soulcalibur games after the second game and it turns out Soulcalibur 2 is the most competitive game in the series go figure. No create a character, no reversal edge or other forced slapped on gimmicks just pure gameplay.
Fox is technically demanding, but once you have those skills, there is a lot you can do to cancel out other character's options. I was a ganon main in melee, and while the execution of some of his tech might be slightly easier than fox, playing neutral with ganon was much more difficult, sense most of the melee high tiers had really good tools at shutting down ganon (mainly fox and sheik). It is nice to have hard to use top tiers, but that doesn't mean that there are not big advantages to picking them up.
Anyways nice video, really enjoyed it.
No I actually completely agree with everything you said I feel like the barrier to entry with fox is the hardest but at high-level or pro level if you have everything down all your options used perfectly make the game easier but getting there to that level is very hard
Great video. I like that the best game should be a side event at newest games tournament
Yeah definitely some games are so good it's sad they don't get exposure
Old games are fun, but a lot of them are also pretty broken
T5 for example, it's all fun and games, until someone picks Steve.
Tekken 5 dark Resurrection isn't as bad he doesn't have his infinite or anything like that in that game
The problem is "the best" is a matter of preference. The newest is objective. Also, they can't make money shilling for a 15 year old game. People would rather spend money on shiny dlc costumes that show off current Gen graphics.
You're right, the catering is atrocious nowadays
it's not catering It's just safest to run the newest one considering no one can agree. This is an entirely subjective issue with no correct answer
the problem with this is that the casuals are the one keeping the franchise alive and the company needs profit, they gonna sell the new game and the community is gonna follow suit most of the time, the melee stuff was more something out of nintendo not helping them and making a game backwards with what they wanted or close to it, they wanted to survive because their creators wanted them gone, while other companies actually move along with their community so it's normal they follow, things change and that is fine even if they are not the best games as the last one, i think you are in denial, and no, most ppl dont want a super hard old game, the majority want a easy game to pick up and that is fine, the casual audience is the priority while the hardcore or the pros basically just advertise the game with tournaments.
Tekken 7 is the best competitively aside from the leroy fiasco
This is completely subjective. It probably goes without saying, but the criteria that people use to judge what game is better differs greatly from person to person. I think that’s why tournaments tend to use the newest game, because they understand that ultimately, you can’t determine what’s the “best game” in the series is.
i love how you think but unfortunately the masses of people want new things and easy outcomes. They want things now, they want to pay for the new visuals now; rather than invest the time to be good at something that we already have.
Well maybe I'll make a discord for like-minded people then :)
So what i got from this is smash 64 should be played more
Honestly I think it's the second-best in the series but most people would disagree
I play smash 64 competitively. Most people don't play it and don't understand it. There is such a high skill ceiling. The neutral game is so nuanced, you cant just throw attacks out or shield every attack like in smash ultimate. The game forces you to play perfect and its so fun. I've played every smash and 64 is easily the most technically demanding smash besides melee. It's such a good game.
@@vwxyz345 I think the same the combos are so satisfying too
There’s a smash tournament on August 4th if you’re interested.
Which game?
@@7dogguy Melee and Ultimate.
@@thehunkygodchrist7770 sure I'll come down I'm probably horrible now lol
@@7dogguy I haven’t played in a while but it’s the experience I care about, not the challenge.
Where?
There was a lot of problems with Tag 2
You’re right there are some issues with Tekken 7 as well but I love the game
Quit complaining tho lol or at least try not to sound so awful lol
I am sure there are things that the highest level players prefer in this game compared to some older entries in the franchise.
Soul Calibur 2 obviously is an amazing game which fits the correct level of balance to be very high level and competitive. SC 6 is okay not as bad as SCV
I think the red flag here is "smash melee". Seriously, nostalgia is a scary disease.
@tristanreynolds5748 good game but you can't objectively call it the best. i mean it's control options are already a major red flag considering games after it actually made it so some people can play the game more comfortably, like me because default actually hurts me to play on, even then the gameplay is all subjective imo. I find the fight for the best is basically worthless since 9/10 it devolves to "you are stupid" when people don't agree
Melee is like THE example for a fighting game video like this though. It has been revived several times now.
@ActionGamerAaron People do play smash 64 actually. I'm a part of that community and its growing more because of Remix too. It's not technically broken or anything at all and the roster is honestly really balanced.
Melee will always be the goat!!
@ActionGamerAaron Smash 64 isn't broken, if it was broken people wouldn't play it. It's a smaller game than most, but there's still active communities that play it all around north & south america, Japan, even Europe. I'm not sure about numbers but I'm 90% sure 64 is more alive than brawl and smash4. Also, it's very opposite of what you said, it has infinite technical expression and is very viable competitively. That's why there is such a range of skill levels amongst people that play it
they arent played because theyre the best, they are played because there are viewers who play the games and want to watch a professional level of them on display. If you want to organise tournies of your fav fighting games, do so, in your basement, with no advertisers and no viewers.
nono skill issu
Also i don't think they play the newest, i think they just pick popular ones that'll have high turnout, why run one game if you might get closer to break even with another. There's a lot of business-based decisions that go into it imo.
No one thinks this.