I'm a complete beginner (played about on an electribe for a bit years ago) after wanting a 404 for years I just got a 404 mk2. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing and I find it both kind of frustrating and fun in equal measures. It is tricky but full of surprises also, especially when most of the time you are going things out accidentally 😂
The sp404 clicked for me when I used it to build songs out of 8bar loops that I haohazardly cobbled together on other synths and then resampling. Especially combined with like... An mc101 or elektron device. It's like a memory card and a gameshark on a playstation. It lets me save my progress, and then cheat my way to victory by resampling 😉
As an old sp404 head who exclusively used it on several projects, I think the 'sketchpad' label these machines often get thrown at it is because of its sorta...it's a sandbox that doesn't suggest anything to you and it also doesn't let you go backwards with anything (unless you make your own style of undo by using spare pads to return to). For me it was a mix of sampler and tape machine and I'd build up tracks by resampling the entire song over and over adding new elements and it resulted in raw feeling music. I haven't used the new iteration but it looks like more of the same with a few extra pieces added to speed up the sound destruction that is inevitable on an sp.
I agree, I consider the sp404 mk2 as an instrument. But in the same way as a piano, the style depends on the musician, not on the instrument, it seems incorrect to me to reduce it to a lofi beat machine, much less the MKII. It is its workflow which can be designated as lofi, as opposed to for example a daw or the MPC workflow. Just the fact of being able to carry it in your bag to the instrument or source you want to sample, without having to plug into a power outlet, and continue where you left off, regardless the time and the place, demonstrates a strong desire to propose and preserve this particular way of making and playing music. I really liked your video!
The SPMKII has broken the mold in the way I've been creating music for 30 years. For the longest time my weapon of choice was Reason, then I switched to Logic and basically anything and everything was possible. Still. from blank session to a half decent idea in any software with dozens of plugins, samplers, hundreds of samples etc.. my approach was always the same. Then the SP with its confounding workflow, no play stop, and hundreds of key combos like Mortal Combat fatalities put my brain in reset mode. I've not created a single lo-fi beat, but now it's evolving experimental performative sets, where I can live record guitar, bass and other sequencers and basically use it as an incredible tape loop and performance instrument. I love this thing, even when it pisses me off! It's a wacky, capable beyond its cost instrument that I hope Roland keeps updating til the end times.
The hard truth is that the sp like any other machine takes an amount of dedication that becomes very weird, not at the beginning but when you’ve finally learned to use the machine. After you’ve learned your way around the machine you begin to think like “well this is it ?” But you have to go deeper and UNLOCK what this thing can do. To fully convey what I’m trying to say this comment will be super long. I’ll probably post a video about it. I love your take on this and that you’re helping people wrap their head around this machine. Dope vid bro 💯
The reason people mistakenly think Dilla used the 303 is because he often talked about using the SP. He was referring to the Emu SP1200, and Roland have benefitted greatly from that misconception. And a whole genre and community has emerged from that misconception. Dilla never used the 303. Someone brought him a 404 one time, but he never used that either.
Dilla didn't really use the 303 for Donuts or in the hospital. In Dilla Time, it is stated that he mostly used a computer to create the beats while he was at home between hospital visits
yes another commenter pointed this out. there seems to be conflicting accounts of what went down, I know that the book Dilla Time conflicts with the legend/myth. I might do a video on this subject.
@@TouchBaseBeats Both Dilla Time and the 33 1/3rd's book about Donuts state that he used Pro Tools. Also other people that are Dilla adjacent have confirmed it's Pro Tools. Makes a lot of sense when you think how easy it would be for a genius like him to line stuff up on a protools timeline. I thought it was the 303 for the longest time as well
@icecoldfingerz someone I forgot who has also stated that donuts was just loops from the 303 that was recorded into pro tools and finished in there don't know if that's true r not
This is one of those things that you know if you own an SP.... you know you know it, but still compare it to an MPC or even worse, Ableton lol I needed this reminder. Thanks!
I bought the sp 303 in 2002 . Picked apples to get the cash . Used it to play loops and effect ambient sounds and vocals . I use software to do that now real-time . I sold swapped them for semi modular synths recently. Way prefer the hybrid setup analog meets soft synth sound .
I definitely treat my SP like an instrument and sampler for sound design and always run it into my DAW and do all of my sequencing and arranging in Ableton. I tried the full beatmaking thing with it and it's TOO limited for what I do, but it adds a LOT of unique character to songs when I really dive into the atmosphere created by really mangling samples. Great video 👍🏼👍🏼
Great takes! I got interested in the MK2 because I had been a long time fan of the OP-1, which got me to enjoy working/arranging more with just audio (the tape) rather than all DAW and sequences. The MK2 being a sampler first, and having all the sick effects really took all the workflow things I liked, but felt limited by, on the OP-1 and expanded them a ton. Not to mention the OP-1 and the MK2 are a wicked good pair. I also remember there being a bit more of a critical vibe out there prior to the 2.0 firmware, but now that we're on 3.0 I feel like the attitude towards it online is way more positive.
Great video my friend and I couldn't agree more. To know the SPs are to love the SPs, and you just embrace what it is, and not try to compare it to any MPC or any other beat machine or DAW. Just subscribed to your channel fam!🙏🏾✊🏾💚
Very nice video and some pretty solid points sir. I totally agree with you that it's a performance tool and I personally bought it for the wrong reasons but months after purchasing I came to the same realization and ended up doing hip-hop and lofi beats. Most of the times I don't use the sequencer and I end up recording directly a real-time performance which is beautiful if you ask me.
This is the video I have been looking for all over the TH-cams. Thank you. Every time I think of buying an SP404 I'm overwhelmed by the learning curve and just start making beats in Koala and exporting those into my DAW to fine tune and rework things. But I think you hit the nail on the head with this about it being a performance tool. I started making beats during the pandemic but I'm no DJ and wouldn't be using this in any live performance setting - that's who it's designed for.
It’s great for making beats away from your computer but not without putting in the time to learn it. If you just want to make beats, sticking with a daw is never a bad choice.
Thank you! I can see it’s a wonderful machine but I couldn’t make any sense of it. I kept leaving for a while and coming back to it. As sort of a sampling Kaosillator things start falling into place. Thanks again I needed this vid. 🎤📻
I used a 404sx intensely for a few years and your observations on it are the reasons I sold it. I was in the Facebook sp404 group and sucked up all the tips and aspired to finding an old 303, so I could be even more boom bap. I mostly enjoyed the cool music performances players did in nature, slumped over this neat battery powered box. I played it at the local pub open mic a few times.
Nice summary. I absolutely love my MK2, I feel like it addressed all the frustrations I had with the sx. I sample instruments directly into it and arrange with the sequencer or the resample method. For some reason, I feel like this is the performance version of a 4 track cassette recorder. If you can hear it, you can sample it and make music with it. I love it!
After a couple months in to SP 404 ownership this is all spot on. The one thing I would add is that it doesn't have to be groove oriented at all-- I have found that it is a brilliant sound design tool that doesn't need to even touch the pattern sequencer. Though looping textural pads is not it's forte, creating unique, lush and textured ambient sounds to sequence outside the device has unopened a whole bunch of creativity for me.
I use it as a sketchpad. I work in VFX and sound is my hobby, the last thing I want to do when I knock off is get back on a computer. I sit on the couch and just play around. I play guitar, so I record onto it, then go to the couch and fiddle. I use the sound generator a lot too. It does so many different things now, it kinda covers a lot of different things. I've never seen anyone really frustrated with it on a video before. I mostly watch tutorials though.
When I need something sampled, chopped, and effected with no hassle I know what I'm reaching for. It's just too cumbersome for me in a daw. I sold my spmk2 at one point because I wanted to focus more on a daw but it just didn't work the same as the sp is when you're banging out on the pads, it just has a special character and feel. So I picked it up again for 300, I was amazed someone let it go for so cheap. Now I've ascended to a higher plane after my sp reawakening 😂
Nice one. Been thinking how to integrate the 404 into my setup and glad I came across this video. I think it CAN be the sole workstation for those who wish to dive that deep and accept the limitations but probably less frustrating to yake ypur approach.
for those willing to MASTER the device I think it can def serve as an all-in-one, but it simply can't compare to the overall functionality of a DAW. and I think most people who intend to seriously finish any of their SP tracks will inevitably need to get it into a DAW. otherwise it's kinda lo-fi!
Great video. Needed to be made. There are so many choices these days, it's important to understand WHAT each piece of gear is for. I like the analogy of the Swiss Army knife. You never use it ALL at once and some things, never at all. But when you need choices available quickly, it serves that purpose. I like that you consider it an "instrument" and therefore, it needs to be "learned" for what it CAN do.
The beauty of the SP or any (good) sampler is that you can use it however you want, but that being said, i think you made some good points here. I know when I bought my mkII, I was pretty shocked and a little disappointed by just how different it is compared to my Digitakt and that work flow that I became so accustomed to
The beauty of it is the subjective nature of using it the way you want. I’ve realized there is 20 different ways to do the same thing. Also, I do like your video, how do you explain the “live looping” feature the new 4.04 update introduced..?!! There are so many ways to use this Device one just has to craft their own path. For example I really just wanted to get some 4 bar loops going, no sequencing, just a start and end point on a drum break on a metronome and then add more loops to it. This workflow is kind of hard to pinpoint through YT tutorials, therefore this is “my” way to use it. It really has so many possibilities to explore workflows, the limitations are nice too. It makes you approach things differently, makes ya mind work different.
I recently picked one of these up, and I agree with you on most of your points. The device is absolutely magical if you use it how I am using it: rather than futz around with the complicated (and creativity killing) midi routing on multiple devices, I write, say, a drum loop on the TR-8s, some synth lines on an MC-101 and a few baselines on something else. Then I sample these into the 404, chop, combine, edit, tweak and run FX through them and string them together into patterns and ultimately make songs with them. Far better sounding songs that I could have done on ANY of those other devices by themselves. Once you have your sounds/phrases/samples on the 404 it's a wonderful, inspiring machine. It's revolutionized how I make songs on hardware. But it is absolutely not self contained: it requires you grab things from your environment, other instruments, or other devices and then string those together and add effects. If you do that with it, it's a phenomenal piece of kit. If you're trying to compose on it in isolation, you CAN do that, but it's not as easy or intuitive as something like a Circuit Tracks, MC-101, MV-1 or MPC. You can nail a screw in with a hammer, but why not use a screwdriver as intended?
The OG 404s were never created to occupy the project/production workhorse groovebox space that other sequencer/samplers did that the time - but as a compact sampler that could integrate into existing setups. By nature its role as a sample capture, mangle, layer device it was asking for its functionality to be hacked. I doubt Roland ever expected folks to sample and resample their way into arranging full pieces on it. The mk2 is so much like a DAW now that it adds precision and workflow improvements to that concept so people are using it as a standalone groovebox that has to do everything.
it can definitely be used on its own to wonderful effect, in fact I think that's part of the fun when making beats is really using your ears to create those sounds.
Swiss army knife and instrument is probably closest to how I use it. I jam with a couple other people in a home studio with drumkit, bass guitar, midi-synced loop pedals, and synths/sequencers, and the 404 is our midi master clock source, live click track, occassional drum machine, and occassionally I'll use it for extra looped sound effects on jams (rain, thunder, siren sounds, etc.) and occassionally I'll lay down a bassline on my loop pedal and then go play something on the 404 live. Most of my samples are one-shot samples of different instruments, not just drums but also individual piano notes, kalimba, steel drums, different bass and lead synth sounds I've sampled that play well chromatically, and some vocal samples so I can play or sequence almost anything that comes to mind while improvising. I also find it to be a useful sketchpad for ideas while travelling or if I don't feel like recording actual drums, bass, synth parts, etc. I chose the 404 because I wanted more performance options than the typical drum machine, but I don't like getting bogged down with touch screen or point and click interfaces of more complicated sampler/sequencers or DAWs while doing live improv jamming.
you should try it .. i also have a boss katana 100w guitar amp (with record out) but use the sp-404 as it's simpler to dial in a sound.@@TouchBaseBeats
It's my FX box: you can chain 4 fx together. It's my audio interface with midi ports. It's my finger drumming sampler. Combined with an MPC your good to go!
I literally just finished a gig where I played beats off my SP and me and the homie improvised guitar, bass, keys and rhymes over them. It's a great performance tool
Not sure if I'll get one of these but I really wanna create a hybrid setup where I can remove as many things as possible from the DAW to be a Computer independent process. I don't wanna remove the DAW entirely, I just started to realize I hate jamming and composing in my DAW and hardware has so far been a breath of fresh air to me. Recording live instruments such as guitars, bass and my own vocals would be done through my DAW. If I could somehow get my Microfreak, Drumbrute Impact and more to work with the SP-404, letting me mix together sample chopping and sampling my own hardware, All that would hopefully make something like an SP work for me. To be completely honest, I discovered JonMakesBeats 2 weeks ago and I'm obsessed with his workflow and deeply jealous.
So I actually just got a microfreak last week and I think it’s the perfect pair with the SP because of the effects. I am having a lot of fun recording phrases from the microfreak and layering effects with it to get those sounds even more interesting and colorful. I think I’m going to make a video about this soon.
I have a MPC One which I love. I got the SP404 mk2 and it was hard to understand at first but you just have to buckle down and watch every video you can and learn it, and menu dive and learn everything
I use mine as a sample and loop bank controlled by polyphonic midi from my digitone. Best gear combo I’ve ever used and it keeps my setup super minimal while still being very performance friendly.
People are totally using it wrong. For me I use it as a tool on my desk for quick sample chops, an effector for resampling into my analog signal chain, and for flattening drum shots to thicken them up. In the last example for instance, I take two different kicks that have the same pitch then flatten them into one. Then I resample that kick into my MS-1 at the long 2 settings for more crunch at a different sample rate. Then I merge the original flattened kick with the MS-1`s version to then resample into the clipped input of a 2KXL. The SP404MK2 is a tool for many things including as a vst in an analog box saving dsp and, a great tool at that. I can do these tasks faster than in my MPC One I might add as well. Before the SP was the MS-1 (the grandfather of the entire SP line FYI).
This an inspiring comment. I've been thinking about selling my SP-404A because I just got an Octatrack and want to focus on that, but your comment just made me think about how quickly I could sample a couple of different synth pads for example and resample/flatten them with the addition of an effect such as Isolater to turn it into something new that I could then use in the Octatrack.
@@soundofmaiyeah the 404MK2 is basically a analog vst with great chopping and resampling capability baking effects into samples fattening them. (If people are thinking they should do whole beats on them, they are clearly missing the point of the SP404MK2. It is not an MPC but, the effects are greater than on an MPC for example. It has its own sound and, like MPCs is meant for sampling into its converters).
@@MS-1 That's a nice description of it. I couldn't get into making music with it alone, but found it hard to let it go because besides liking the sound of effects such as the Isolater and Vinyl Sim, I also like the way a raw sample sounds when recorded into it (even with the unbalanced/phono inputs). It's going back onto my desk now, I don't know why I didn't think about using it simply as a tool like this before.
@@soundofmai Yeah it is on my desk to the right of my MPC 2KXL (which is front and center) augmenting it. Often times we are hearing people complain about the SP404MK2's updates who expect it to perform like an MPC. The only thing IMHO Roland should address is custom midi mapping like it's predessor the MS-1. (The midi mapping is too locked down currently).
I would love to have a sampler, but any I’ve tried, I couldn’t make heads or tails of them; I work a day job. I don’t want to use my daily 3 hours of freedom reading “War And Peace” for the next two years before I can use them. If they make one which isn’t all convoluted and is simple to approach, I’ll buy it.
Any piece of gear worth using is going to have a learning curve, especially if you’ve never used it or similar gear before. As far as synths and samplers go I think simplicity is hard to come by. I think it’s about picking what gives you the functionality you’re looking for and dedicating the time to learning whatever you decide to invest in. None of this shit is simple.
I sold mine and for some reason really miss it even though it didn't fit my workflow. Which is something I've never had in 25 years of producing music on countless bits of audio gear and DAWs. Maybe I should buy another. I also have an MPC one.
@@TouchBaseBeats I hear that. What I'd really love is an MPC live mini. Bout the size and portability of a 404 but with the functionality of an MPC. Doesn't exist though... yet. :)
I agree on all accounts exact the limitation to lofi. This is a sampler so its only limitation in terms of its sound is your intention and the original material. You can very well use it to do hifi beats if you feed it accordingly and use it as such. Crystal clear IDM is just as well possible with it as lofi downtempo..
I agree with almost everything you said except that it’s not a groove box it was not a groove box 8 months ago but they recently advanced sound generators to have it be able to be more of a groove box but I do agree if you want the full thing with editing midi notes you should just buy a MPC live 2 or MPC one if you want the DAWLESS gear
To me a groove box needs to have plentiful built in sounds or sound generators. This to me is still a fancy sampler on steroids. MPC, Maschine, and TR8S all let you create full beats out of the box, this one needs you to grab the sounds so I will forever relegate it to non-groove box status.
The only thing wrong with the 404 MK 2 is the DJ Mode, it totally makes no sense that the songs have to be preloaded on the pads to perform a set. I'm not sure why they don't allow you to preview songs on the fly? But besides that it's really no wrong way to use the MK2 it's a hybrid machine!
Funny you mention DJ mode, I’m actually putting out a video about that this Friday! It’d be nice to load songs straight from the SD card but I think the DJ mode is built out of the features that already exist within the machine so I assume it kinda has to work that way. It is nice tho, once you load it up it BPM detects and makes organizing a set pretty easy.
@@TouchBaseBeats in all honesty I haven’t completely dove into it as maybe I should to form an opinion! I actually enjoy the way most SP users DJ on the previous devices…it forces you to be creative with your transitions; whether using the delays or DJ effects Looper! But having it perform more like a traditional DJ unit could be a lot of fun? Thanks I’ll check out your review on it!
You’re so right! I had the 303 in the early 2000s and I made tons of stuff on it cuz I was SAMPLING! I got the 404 mk2 and just didn’t click with it because like you said I’m just loading pre-chopped up samples and not SAMPLING. Problem is I just don’t really sample anymore so I’ve been using it as a midi controller and audio interface, the pads are really nice as a controller.
IMO, I have a SP808 EX from 1998, with a zip and jaz disk reader that were removable hard drives of 100 and 300 mega bytes, a lot of space to manage in the composition. Yes, SP808 was sold as a remixer, a tool to make new flourishes, stunts and changes on top of an original song, with just 4 tracks you could make different lines of effects and loops on the song with very professional results. It also has a JP8000 8-voice polophony synthesizer inside with 80 presets capacity and there are 808. (8 voices for 80 presets of the internal JP8000 synthesizer) Ok, I have the SP-404 mkII, but before Roland released the Boss SP-202, E-mu released their SP-12 SP1200 Sample Player line, which consisted of Drum/samplers that could record and play small pieces of audio like 3 or 4 seconds of maximum memory capacity, you had to play with 12-bit sounds. Ok, SP-404 It means that it has 4 tracks like 808EX, in this case for 4 different uses, looper sequencer, FX processor and digitizer, internal and external audio sampler, a mini DJ station to mix songs made with the machine or long audios . (according to Roland 404 it means those 4 tracks or 4 different uses). It is even less autonomous than the previous ones, because they removed the microphone to capture ambient sounds, which was widely used for low fidelity sounds and there is his great success by J-Dilla, he loved to capture things with the built-in microphone from their studio monitors for that faded and dirty effect, I now do this with my iPad and the Koala sampler app (an app inspired by MPC 2000 and SP404). People are disappointed because they believe that the SP404 is a hardware version Koala sampler, and Roland is not to blame for the things that people imagine, because SP has been around for many more years than the Koala sampler app, it is a reading error and understanding of information that is misinterpreted by the same people, because the manufacturer clearly says what it is. It is not a DAW, it is not a classic MPC, nor a modern touch screen one, it is not a Maschine or an Electribe 2. It is simply a sampler to create musical bases based on loops and resmapping and can be used as a classic Akai S950 style sampler that was used by DJ Premier together with his MPC 60 since the S950 does not have a sequencer or arpeggiator, these tasks were done by him. MPC60+S950 and he spent his entire life making music for his projects and currently also uses the same equipment. SP404 mk2 is much better than an s950 and can do very cool things, it can also be sequenced with an old MPC just with the midi. This is where the SP404 mk2 wins with its extensive collection of real-time FX, while playing a midi composition from the MPC. Thank you for making this informative and useful video. 👍
Can I wait for the rumored "MPC Live Mini"? or will I just buy a 404, though I know it's not what I truly wish for? (Which is a small and lighter Push 3)
I'll be honest here: your video kind of discouraged me from getting the MK2. Currently I have a PO-33, a Tascam field Mic and the Roland S1 synth. The PO-33 I've had for years and I'm still having loads of fun with it. I was looking for a bigger device with more Features that specifically can sample and has loads of memory. Plus being USB-C powered is also really nice... On second thought, I think I'm still going to get the MK2
I got it because my laptop isn't powerful enough for music production or performances. The 404 on zounds was affordable enough as a back up. But honestly, I should have saved up for a daw.
You can definitely hear some SP 303 effects on Donuts 🍩, I think people have a perception that Dilla did the whole album at his hospital bed w an 303, that is probably really unrealistic, just like Mdalib and others do parts of their beats with the SP but also Madlib has been shown using several MPCs as well, amd he admits handing his (post beat) production tp Peanut Butter Wolf for DAW cleanup and mastering. Just saying, what Dilla did w Donuta is legendary, and also what Madlib and others continue to do w that, and other gear like the TE PO 33 is really impressive with minimalist gear. In my opinion, respectfully.
Madlib made the SP's famous not Dilla. But I think the extent to which both used it is greatly greatly exaggerated. Partly because Madlib played into it because it's a good story, much like his "i just use an IPad" shtick now. I think they probably used it as a travel sampler as they both did a lot of traveling and digging. But do I think most of their famous beats were done on one? Absolutely not.
I do enjoy playing out jungle grooves much more on the 404 pads than the mpc one. I do like it's audio character. I like the realtime reverse effect, I like the delay, but personally I find many of the effects to be kind of just padding. I dont think its the most ideal option to use as your master FX send with the mpc one/live/x as you see many ppl doing, but convincing anyone otherwise seems to be futile because of Malo, Marlo Diggs, Sarah, and Jade. I love Marlo's content, I have no complaints about Malo or Sarah, personally, but I question Jade's motivations because it appears that she flat out avoids talking about the not so great aspects of gear she is sent, and that's extremely sus.
I think given how easy it is to trigger and tweak the effects in a live setting I think using it just that way is legit, even if it leaves a lot of great features off the table imo.
I have 3 new sp404 mk2 that i use to feed a few loopers. I can’t see them being lofi beat machines. They do so much more plus they sound dope. Anyhow I also don’t think you’re getting it either, but i guess that’s way it’s unique. It can be a different thing to different people
I don't consider it a DAW in a box and I will die on this hill! but of course the sound is legendary and I love it for that. also you have THREE SP-404MK2's??? I need a video of that setup ASAP...
@@TouchBaseBeats I liked your video a lot. It's a sober take if I ever saw one. Since I have you, maybe you can give me some advice... I'm hoping to use it for a bit more than just a sketchpad. The skip back sampling and looper are a big draw. Just plug in an instrument or mic and start noodling. If you like something, commit it to a pad. Repeat, export to DAW if needed and arrange. It looks extremely easy to do on this and it's portable. Does that sound like a reasonable use case to you? The other thing is that I have a problem with drums. I always have. Whenever I use a VST or load one-shots, I'm always unhappy with the results, mainly because of how tedious it is. I know you might not be able to answer this for my particular case, but how quickly and easily can you do drums on this and get really good results, either via chopping breaks, or using one-shots? Lastly, of all the things I've heard about this device, the most interesting is that it has soul. Do you agree? If so, what gives it that?
There are indeed some annoying quirks along with the amazing features, given what I want it for I’m able to overlook the bad parts but it’s far from perfect for sure.
This is a nice video and it was fun to watch. However, I have to disagree. The SP is all DAW first and foremost. I use it for my minimalist pop precisely because it forces me to reduce myself in my music. On a classical DAW I would not find an end. But of course it can be anything else, as described in your video. The difference is that this device has no restrictions if you want it to.
My I'm learning to pure hate happened when I realized everything about this thing is to sell you something else and I can't load a sample directly to my pc.
The Sp Is For Raw Breaks And Loops, only Certain Cats Master That Machine. only The Illest One Can Make Projects Off The 404. Sp Is A Beat Machine Simple And Plan.
I disagree with it just being a "Lo-fi beat machine," because you can really make an entire pop song on the thing and perform it live with vocals using an external mic. Some of the worst content I've seen for the SP404MK2 is using it as just a Hip-Hop beat machine and I really think that the real strength of this instrument is the ability to turn anybody into a one-man band.
it's totally possible to make solid tunes on it but the limitations are such that you can't really mix/eq in it like you can with the MPCs or Maschine + so that's why I call it a "lo-fi beat machine" but it's so close to DAWBOX status! Agree that it's amazing for solo performances!
@@TouchBaseBeatshonestly I just disagree, it’s not a Lo Fi machine. It’s anything you want it to be, you can make any genre with the SP. I make real Hip Hop with my SP, not “Lo Fi beats to study to”. And sure Dilla is the “God father of Lo Fi” but he doesn’t make Lo Fi, he makes hip hop. The best hip hop. I agree with everything else you’ve said about the SP though brother
I say "lo-fi" in the sense that it just can't EQ/mix things as cleanly as other devices or like a DAW so it kind of embeds that rougher sound in the songs made SP, not that it's the chill study muzak beat machine and that's all it can do. I don't think "lo-fi" is a bad thing! It's just a term to describe a sound that is less polished and more raw.@@spiketrakton329
People may not agree but I will die on this hill, songs made completely on this device have an inherent roughness or “lo-fi” quality to them. They will not ever get the most pro eq/compression that would get them sounding like fully mixed tracks in a daw or even something from an MPC or Maschine.
@@TouchBaseBeats Lack of effects or additional postprocessing on samples doesn't mean it sounds like a low-fi. This device is capable of sampling with 48kHz and linear 16 bits - so definitely it is not low-fi.
it should excel as a beat making machine and it should be easier to chop and mangle samples and thats why I feel the unit is a failure. The design choices still baffle me, why is there no button formation as a d pad to easily navigate your wave forms? The sample looping itself when you turn the edit knob needs to be removed. I use the SP everyday but not for making beats and I think thats sad. There needs to be an on board mic, a universal xlr input for the mic. You need to be able to send separate fx to the front input vs the back. Pattern mode is damn near useless and frustrating (I'll blame myself for that). I still have hard time getting things to loop in time but it's easy on the Model Samples and of course my daw. The fact that there is no live looping is the biggest sin and ruins it as a device for improv live performances. I dont want to have to trim a bunch loops before a show, I just want to make something on the spot like I can do with a loop pedal and a mixer. I dont regret my purchase but Roland held this thing back from being the greatest kit of the decade. I do need to play with the sequencer some more, which should have been ready at launch.
I was able to do some decent looping just by resampling on beat as much as I could, hitting record to end the loop on beat is crucial. I agree tho, I think the lack of intuitive live looping is a major flaw but perhaps not a mistake given Roland also sells products that do specifically that? Idk for sure but a firmware update that adds some kind of looping would make this thing so much more powerful.
@@TouchBaseBeats that's exactly why they won't do it because they make loop pedals lololol. I hate having to carry another piece of gear with me to do live loops without stopping but thats the way it is.
for $10 Koala Sampler is a better beat machine than any of these. And no matter how much you get away from using a DAW, you’re just handicapping your creativity
Hard disagree, DAWs have the most features but that doesn’t equal creativity. The character and workflow of hardware spark creativity in ways that DAWs cannot.
I think theirs loads of jazz’ hip hop shiiiiii* ,, and it’s mainly teens that are directing it or most samplers down the jazz records path …?!! Do they not know we all know are tunes and just because hip hops beats are used regularly … then jazz ain’t new … I’d like to see punk or hard core breaks in thease recommendations channels…..
Not punk or hardcore, but I routinely use it for experimental black metal and industrial. But then I ruin it all by also mixing in jazz and lo-fi hip hop. Feels like anything goes with a sampler, and took that to heart... For better or worse
@GeorgeL909 don’t get me wrong it’s a great thing that samplers are available ,convenient an stuff because years ago you had to be minted to afford the equipment..even thease smaller pocket operator samplers give people a chance to create and learn experiment 🧪 in music 🎶
For MPC users you can’t approach the 404 like an MPC, the MPC has its own way and the SP has it’s own way once you learn the way of the SP 404 it’s a powerful duo 🫡
Thanks for the mention man! SPs are so versatile (especially the MK2). The price of one of these things is wild for what you get as well
Thanks for the comment and great channel! Praise be to the SP and its high features-to-price ratio.
The limitations/quirkiness of the work flow are what makes it great imo!
DAW=infinite choices
SP404=turn brain off and make music
agree! you have to be really considerate and focused on it which I love
I'm a complete beginner (played about on an electribe for a bit years ago) after wanting a 404 for years I just got a 404 mk2. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing and I find it both kind of frustrating and fun in equal measures. It is tricky but full of surprises also, especially when most of the time you are going things out accidentally 😂
Love the format and delivery, as informative as any big channel. Keep it up! I will keep watching!
Thank you! More videos like this are in the works
The sp404 clicked for me when I used it to build songs out of 8bar loops that I haohazardly cobbled together on other synths and then resampling. Especially combined with like... An mc101 or elektron device. It's like a memory card and a gameshark on a playstation. It lets me save my progress, and then cheat my way to victory by resampling 😉
I mean that’s the way!
As an old sp404 head who exclusively used it on several projects, I think the 'sketchpad' label these machines often get thrown at it is because of its sorta...it's a sandbox that doesn't suggest anything to you and it also doesn't let you go backwards with anything (unless you make your own style of undo by using spare pads to return to).
For me it was a mix of sampler and tape machine and I'd build up tracks by resampling the entire song over and over adding new elements and it resulted in raw feeling music.
I haven't used the new iteration but it looks like more of the same with a few extra pieces added to speed up the sound destruction that is inevitable on an sp.
Resampling is the key, love that sound collage vibe
I agree, I consider the sp404 mk2 as an instrument. But in the same way as a piano, the style depends on the musician, not on the instrument, it seems incorrect to me to reduce it to a lofi beat machine, much less the MKII.
It is its workflow which can be designated as lofi, as opposed to for example a daw or the MPC workflow. Just the fact of being able to carry it in your bag to the instrument or source you want to sample, without having to plug into a power outlet, and continue where you left off, regardless the time and the place, demonstrates a strong desire to propose and preserve this particular way of making and playing music.
I really liked your video!
the portability is truly amazing
And also, because of its portability, it's an amazing tool to do some beats while you are in an airport or airplane and have plenty of time to spare
@@catolegtrue indeed! Maybe I’ll make an airport beat for a video someday…
The SPMKII has broken the mold in the way I've been creating music for 30 years. For the longest time my weapon of choice was Reason, then I switched to Logic and basically anything and everything was possible. Still. from blank session to a half decent idea in any software with dozens of plugins, samplers, hundreds of samples etc.. my approach was always the same.
Then the SP with its confounding workflow, no play stop, and hundreds of key combos like Mortal Combat fatalities put my brain in reset mode. I've not created a single lo-fi beat, but now it's evolving experimental performative sets, where I can live record guitar, bass and other sequencers and basically use it as an incredible tape loop and performance instrument.
I love this thing, even when it pisses me off! It's a wacky, capable beyond its cost instrument that I hope Roland keeps updating til the end times.
The multi use is the best part. Hoping they never stop the firmware magic!
The hard truth is that the sp like any other machine takes an amount of dedication that becomes very weird, not at the beginning but when you’ve finally learned to use the machine. After you’ve learned your way around the machine you begin to think like “well this is it ?” But you have to go deeper and UNLOCK what this thing can do. To fully convey what I’m trying to say this comment will be super long. I’ll probably post a video about it. I love your take on this and that you’re helping people wrap their head around this machine. Dope vid bro 💯
Thanks man and I agree, there’s a bit of learning, then getting comfortable with it before you can really use it to the max potential.
The reason people mistakenly think Dilla used the 303 is because he often talked about using the SP. He was referring to the Emu SP1200, and Roland have benefitted greatly from that misconception. And a whole genre and community has emerged from that misconception. Dilla never used the 303. Someone brought him a 404 one time, but he never used that either.
Lots of conflicting info on this topic so I’m trying to do research and see what I can find, perhaps to put in a video later…
2:04 that’s why I like the SPs. Limitations are a good thing.
Agreed, the SP workflow is great for keeping things simple
Dilla didn't really use the 303 for Donuts or in the hospital. In Dilla Time, it is stated that he mostly used a computer to create the beats while he was at home between hospital visits
yes another commenter pointed this out. there seems to be conflicting accounts of what went down, I know that the book Dilla Time conflicts with the legend/myth. I might do a video on this subject.
Yes he did the majority of the work for Donuts on Pro Tools. Amazing.
@@TouchBaseBeats Both Dilla Time and the 33 1/3rd's book about Donuts state that he used Pro Tools. Also other people that are Dilla adjacent have confirmed it's Pro Tools. Makes a lot of sense when you think how easy it would be for a genius like him to line stuff up on a protools timeline. I thought it was the 303 for the longest time as well
Well some of his people said madlib gave him a 303 u can hear it on some of the tracks and donuts
@icecoldfingerz someone I forgot who has also stated that donuts was just loops from the 303 that was recorded into pro tools and finished in there don't know if that's true r not
This is one of those things that you know if you own an SP.... you know you know it, but still compare it to an MPC or even worse, Ableton lol I needed this reminder. Thanks!
glad you enjoyed it!
I bought the sp 303 in 2002 . Picked apples to get the cash . Used it to play loops and effect ambient sounds and vocals . I use software to do that now real-time . I sold swapped them for semi modular synths recently.
Way prefer the hybrid setup analog meets soft synth sound .
I definitely treat my SP like an instrument and sampler for sound design and always run it into my DAW and do all of my sequencing and arranging in Ableton. I tried the full beatmaking thing with it and it's TOO limited for what I do, but it adds a LOT of unique character to songs when I really dive into the atmosphere created by really mangling samples. Great video 👍🏼👍🏼
Hell yeah using it alongside a DAW is so fun
I would have to agree 100%. This is ultimately the decision I have come to with the 404, and use/think of it in the same manner that you do.
Great takes! I got interested in the MK2 because I had been a long time fan of the OP-1, which got me to enjoy working/arranging more with just audio (the tape) rather than all DAW and sequences. The MK2 being a sampler first, and having all the sick effects really took all the workflow things I liked, but felt limited by, on the OP-1 and expanded them a ton. Not to mention the OP-1 and the MK2 are a wicked good pair.
I also remember there being a bit more of a critical vibe out there prior to the 2.0 firmware, but now that we're on 3.0 I feel like the attitude towards it online is way more positive.
Those updates were crucial!
Great video my friend and I couldn't agree more. To know the SPs are to love the SPs, and you just embrace what it is, and not try to compare it to any MPC or any other beat machine or DAW. Just subscribed to your channel fam!🙏🏾✊🏾💚
Much appreciated bro!
This man's a beast on the mk2
Very nice video and some pretty solid points sir. I totally agree with you that it's a performance tool and I personally bought it for the wrong reasons but months after purchasing I came to the same realization and ended up doing hip-hop and lofi beats. Most of the times I don't use the sequencer and I end up recording directly a real-time performance which is beautiful if you ask me.
Performances are part of what it does best for sure, imo. Those drum pads aren’t there for show!
This is the video I have been looking for all over the TH-cams. Thank you. Every time I think of buying an SP404 I'm overwhelmed by the learning curve and just start making beats in Koala and exporting those into my DAW to fine tune and rework things. But I think you hit the nail on the head with this about it being a performance tool. I started making beats during the pandemic but I'm no DJ and wouldn't be using this in any live performance setting - that's who it's designed for.
It’s great for making beats away from your computer but not without putting in the time to learn it. If you just want to make beats, sticking with a daw is never a bad choice.
Thank you!
I can see it’s a wonderful machine but I couldn’t make any sense of it. I kept leaving for a while and coming back to it. As sort of a sampling Kaosillator things start falling into place.
Thanks again I needed this vid. 🎤📻
Love to hear it!
I used a 404sx intensely for a few years and your observations on it are the reasons I sold it.
I was in the Facebook sp404 group and sucked up all the tips and aspired to finding an old 303, so I could be even more boom bap.
I mostly enjoyed the cool music performances players did in nature, slumped over this neat battery powered box.
I played it at the local pub open mic a few times.
My next move is using it in the park for sure! The first thing I did with it was take it on a camping trip and mess with the presets lol
Nice summary. I absolutely love my MK2, I feel like it addressed all the frustrations I had with the sx. I sample instruments directly into it and arrange with the sequencer or the resample method. For some reason, I feel like this is the performance version of a 4 track cassette recorder. If you can hear it, you can sample it and make music with it. I love it!
Exactly, I love how it gets my brain working
After a couple months in to SP 404 ownership this is all spot on. The one thing I would add is that it doesn't have to be groove oriented at all-- I have found that it is a brilliant sound design tool that doesn't need to even touch the pattern sequencer. Though looping textural pads is not it's forte, creating unique, lush and textured ambient sounds to sequence outside the device has unopened a whole bunch of creativity for me.
It can do so many things and get you thinking in all new ways. So fun to spark creativity
I use it as a sketchpad. I work in VFX and sound is my hobby, the last thing I want to do when I knock off is get back on a computer. I sit on the couch and just play around. I play guitar, so I record onto it, then go to the couch and fiddle. I use the sound generator a lot too. It does so many different things now, it kinda covers a lot of different things. I've never seen anyone really frustrated with it on a video before. I mostly watch tutorials though.
Hey if it’s a useful sketchpad for people I can’t knock that. As long as people feel like they’re getting their moneys worth.
When I need something sampled, chopped, and effected with no hassle I know what I'm reaching for. It's just too cumbersome for me in a daw. I sold my spmk2 at one point because I wanted to focus more on a daw but it just didn't work the same as the sp is when you're banging out on the pads, it just has a special character and feel. So I picked it up again for 300, I was amazed someone let it go for so cheap. Now I've ascended to a higher plane after my sp reawakening 😂
Amazing to get it back at that price! Keep at it!
Hi, I totally agree whit this content. ( p.s: lionclad is soo unique )
so talented!
Nice one. Been thinking how to integrate the 404 into my setup and glad I came across this video. I think it CAN be the sole workstation for those who wish to dive that deep and accept the limitations but probably less frustrating to yake ypur approach.
for those willing to MASTER the device I think it can def serve as an all-in-one, but it simply can't compare to the overall functionality of a DAW. and I think most people who intend to seriously finish any of their SP tracks will inevitably need to get it into a DAW. otherwise it's kinda lo-fi!
Great video. Needed to be made. There are so many choices these days, it's important to understand WHAT each piece of gear is for. I like the analogy of the Swiss Army knife. You never use it ALL at once and some things, never at all. But when you need choices available quickly, it serves that purpose. I like that you consider it an "instrument" and therefore, it needs to be "learned" for what it CAN do.
Thank you! Yeah it’s complicated but worth the effort if you have a lot of different needs for it
The beauty of the SP or any (good) sampler is that you can use it however you want, but that being said, i think you made some good points here. I know when I bought my mkII, I was pretty shocked and a little disappointed by just how different it is compared to my Digitakt and that work flow that I became so accustomed to
yeah this thing is so different from elektron stuff, can be not good for some people's workflows and that's totally legit
Agree, there are a bunch of different things the 404 MK2 can do, and we don't have to use all of them all the time
The beauty of it is the subjective nature of using it the way you want. I’ve realized there is 20 different ways to do the same thing.
Also, I do like your video, how do you explain the “live looping” feature the new 4.04 update introduced..?!! There are so many ways to use this Device one just has to craft their own path.
For example I really just wanted to get some 4 bar loops going, no sequencing, just a start and end point on a drum break on a metronome and then add more loops to it. This workflow is kind of hard to pinpoint through YT tutorials, therefore this is “my” way to use it.
It really has so many possibilities to explore workflows, the limitations are nice too. It makes you approach things differently, makes ya mind work different.
Still learning new ways to use it!
The 404 Mk2 is almost like a PO-33 on steroids.
For sure!
I recently picked one of these up, and I agree with you on most of your points. The device is absolutely magical if you use it how I am using it: rather than futz around with the complicated (and creativity killing) midi routing on multiple devices, I write, say, a drum loop on the TR-8s, some synth lines on an MC-101 and a few baselines on something else. Then I sample these into the 404, chop, combine, edit, tweak and run FX through them and string them together into patterns and ultimately make songs with them. Far better sounding songs that I could have done on ANY of those other devices by themselves. Once you have your sounds/phrases/samples on the 404 it's a wonderful, inspiring machine. It's revolutionized how I make songs on hardware. But it is absolutely not self contained: it requires you grab things from your environment, other instruments, or other devices and then string those together and add effects. If you do that with it, it's a phenomenal piece of kit. If you're trying to compose on it in isolation, you CAN do that, but it's not as easy or intuitive as something like a Circuit Tracks, MC-101, MV-1 or MPC. You can nail a screw in with a hammer, but why not use a screwdriver as intended?
404 workflow is so fun once you get the hang of it! Love to sample my synths and my drum machine into it and just go.
Really useful vid and helped me confirm that im gonna buy one - subscribed 👌
Hell yeah that's exciting! and thank you!
Spot-on ! (+subscribed!) 🙂
🙏🏻🙏🏻
The OG 404s were never created to occupy the project/production workhorse groovebox space that other sequencer/samplers did that the time - but as a compact sampler that could integrate into existing setups. By nature its role as a sample capture, mangle, layer device it was asking for its functionality to be hacked. I doubt Roland ever expected folks to sample and resample their way into arranging full pieces on it. The mk2 is so much like a DAW now that it adds precision and workflow improvements to that concept so people are using it as a standalone groovebox that has to do everything.
it can definitely be used on its own to wonderful effect, in fact I think that's part of the fun when making beats is really using your ears to create those sounds.
well... i'm happy with it... and I see it as an MPC 1000 upgrade
Definitely works for that!
Swiss army knife and instrument is probably closest to how I use it. I jam with a couple other people in a home studio with drumkit, bass guitar, midi-synced loop pedals, and synths/sequencers, and the 404 is our midi master clock source, live click track, occassional drum machine, and occassionally I'll use it for extra looped sound effects on jams (rain, thunder, siren sounds, etc.) and occassionally I'll lay down a bassline on my loop pedal and then go play something on the 404 live. Most of my samples are one-shot samples of different instruments, not just drums but also individual piano notes, kalimba, steel drums, different bass and lead synth sounds I've sampled that play well chromatically, and some vocal samples so I can play or sequence almost anything that comes to mind while improvising. I also find it to be a useful sketchpad for ideas while travelling or if I don't feel like recording actual drums, bass, synth parts, etc. I chose the 404 because I wanted more performance options than the typical drum machine, but I don't like getting bogged down with touch screen or point and click interfaces of more complicated sampler/sequencers or DAWs while doing live improv jamming.
It's so fun to just collect sounds on this thing!
my top uses for my sp-404 is
1. vocoder - use with mpc one
2. guitar amp simulator - use with mpc one
3. drum machine
Ooh haven’t used guitar sim yet but really want to
you should try it .. i also have a boss katana 100w guitar amp (with record out) but use the sp-404 as it's simpler to dial in a sound.@@TouchBaseBeats
It's my FX box: you can chain 4 fx together. It's my audio interface with midi ports. It's my finger drumming sampler. Combined with an MPC your good to go!
The multi functionality might be my fav thing about it
I like the pads on the 404 mk2 better for finger drumming than the mpc one by far.
I literally just finished a gig where I played beats off my SP and me and the homie improvised guitar, bass, keys and rhymes over them. It's a great performance tool
Hell yeah that’s an ideal use case right there
Not sure if I'll get one of these but I really wanna create a hybrid setup where I can remove as many things as possible from the DAW to be a Computer independent process.
I don't wanna remove the DAW entirely, I just started to realize I hate jamming and composing in my DAW and hardware has so far been a breath of fresh air to me.
Recording live instruments such as guitars, bass and my own vocals would be done through my DAW.
If I could somehow get my Microfreak, Drumbrute Impact and more to work with the SP-404, letting me mix together sample chopping and sampling my own hardware,
All that would hopefully make something like an SP work for me.
To be completely honest, I discovered JonMakesBeats 2 weeks ago and I'm obsessed with his workflow and deeply jealous.
So I actually just got a microfreak last week and I think it’s the perfect pair with the SP because of the effects. I am having a lot of fun recording phrases from the microfreak and layering effects with it to get those sounds even more interesting and colorful. I think I’m going to make a video about this soon.
Good stuff! Subscribed!
thank you!!
it's now a looper! Which really just proves your point that it's for performance.
I don’t love the looper personally but I’m happy they have it for anyone who wants it
I have a MPC One which I love. I got the SP404 mk2 and it was hard to understand at first but you just have to buckle down and watch every video you can and learn it, and menu dive and learn everything
Thankfully so many TH-camrs do such a great job making sense of this lil beast
Very swag video 10/10
😎 thanks boss
This is on my list for sure!
The allure is undeniable
I use mine as a sample and loop bank controlled by polyphonic midi from my digitone. Best gear combo I’ve ever used and it keeps my setup super minimal while still being very performance friendly.
Very interesting setup!
Id like to see how you have that setup. Trying to pair it with a force and mpc, and have a valid purpose for it
People are totally using it wrong.
For me I use it as a tool on my desk for quick sample chops, an effector for resampling into my analog signal chain, and for flattening drum shots to thicken them up.
In the last example for instance, I take two different kicks that have the same pitch then flatten them into one.
Then I resample that kick into my MS-1 at the long 2 settings for more crunch at a different sample rate.
Then I merge the original flattened kick with the MS-1`s version to then resample into the clipped input of a 2KXL.
The SP404MK2 is a tool for many things including as a vst in an analog box saving dsp and, a great tool at that.
I can do these tasks faster than in my MPC One I might add as well.
Before the SP was the MS-1 (the grandfather of the entire SP line FYI).
I did a similar thing with my kick in another video I made where I resampled disco tracks into a house song. So fun!
This an inspiring comment. I've been thinking about selling my SP-404A because I just got an Octatrack and want to focus on that, but your comment just made me think about how quickly I could sample a couple of different synth pads for example and resample/flatten them with the addition of an effect such as Isolater to turn it into something new that I could then use in the Octatrack.
@@soundofmaiyeah the 404MK2 is basically a analog vst with great chopping and resampling capability baking effects into samples fattening them.
(If people are thinking they should do whole beats on them, they are clearly missing the point of the SP404MK2. It is not an MPC but, the effects are greater than on an MPC for example. It has its own sound and, like MPCs is meant for sampling into its converters).
@@MS-1 That's a nice description of it. I couldn't get into making music with it alone, but found it hard to let it go because besides liking the sound of effects such as the Isolater and Vinyl Sim, I also like the way a raw sample sounds when recorded into it (even with the unbalanced/phono inputs). It's going back onto my desk now, I don't know why I didn't think about using it simply as a tool like this before.
@@soundofmai Yeah it is on my desk to the right of my MPC 2KXL (which is front and center) augmenting it. Often times we are hearing people complain about the SP404MK2's updates who expect it to perform like an MPC. The only thing IMHO Roland should address is custom midi mapping like it's predessor the MS-1. (The midi mapping is too locked down currently).
According to the book -Dilla Time- J did not make donuts on the sp but on a Mac in pro-tools.
Did Wikipedia lie to me??? Ordering that book ASAP
@@TouchBaseBeats dude I thought the same thing for years until listening to the audiobook this week. It was widely believed for sure.
I would love to have a sampler, but any I’ve tried, I couldn’t make heads or tails of them; I work a day job. I don’t want to use my daily 3 hours of freedom reading “War And Peace” for the next two years before I can use them. If they make one which isn’t all convoluted and is simple to approach, I’ll buy it.
Any piece of gear worth using is going to have a learning curve, especially if you’ve never used it or similar gear before. As far as synths and samplers go I think simplicity is hard to come by. I think it’s about picking what gives you the functionality you’re looking for and dedicating the time to learning whatever you decide to invest in. None of this shit is simple.
I sold mine and for some reason really miss it even though it didn't fit my workflow. Which is something I've never had in 25 years of producing music on countless bits of audio gear and DAWs. Maybe I should buy another. I also have an MPC one.
It’s pretty unique, serves a lot of different purposes. Plus it’s fun to take outside.
@@TouchBaseBeats I hear that. What I'd really love is an MPC live mini. Bout the size and portability of a 404 but with the functionality of an MPC. Doesn't exist though... yet. :)
The DR.202 is a dope drum machine.
Very interesting self realized interpretation of this multi faceted machine.
The versatility is its best asset
Cool vid ! What fonts are used in the video ? 😀 thanks !
Thank you! Using none other than Helvetica
I agree on all accounts exact the limitation to lofi. This is a sampler so its only limitation in terms of its sound is your intention and the original material. You can very well use it to do hifi beats if you feed it accordingly and use it as such. Crystal clear IDM is just as well possible with it as lofi downtempo..
Possible? Sure but nobody is going to mix even roughly inside of this thing so for me that makes it a bit rougher, hence lofi
I agree with almost everything you said except that it’s not a groove box it was not a groove box 8 months ago but they recently advanced sound generators to have it be able to be more of a groove box but I do agree if you want the full thing with editing midi notes you should just buy a MPC live 2 or MPC one if you want the DAWLESS gear
To me a groove box needs to have plentiful built in sounds or sound generators. This to me is still a fancy sampler on steroids. MPC, Maschine, and TR8S all let you create full beats out of the box, this one needs you to grab the sounds so I will forever relegate it to non-groove box status.
@@TouchBaseBeats yea I see what you mean
When I’m in the MK2 I literally zone out and lose track of time.
It’s a great device to get lost in
The only thing wrong with the 404 MK 2 is the DJ Mode, it totally makes no sense that the songs have to be preloaded on the pads to perform a set. I'm not sure why they don't allow you to preview songs on the fly? But besides that it's really no wrong way to use the MK2 it's a hybrid machine!
Funny you mention DJ mode, I’m actually putting out a video about that this Friday! It’d be nice to load songs straight from the SD card but I think the DJ mode is built out of the features that already exist within the machine so I assume it kinda has to work that way. It is nice tho, once you load it up it BPM detects and makes organizing a set pretty easy.
@@TouchBaseBeats in all honesty I haven’t completely dove into it as maybe I should to form an opinion!
I actually enjoy the way most SP users DJ on the previous devices…it forces you to be creative with your transitions; whether using the delays or DJ effects Looper! But having it perform more like a traditional DJ unit could be a lot of fun?
Thanks I’ll check out your review on it!
Nice vid bro. Subbed
Much appreciated!!
Well said 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
much appreciated! big fan of your channel as well!
You’re so right! I had the 303 in the early 2000s and I made tons of stuff on it cuz I was SAMPLING! I got the 404 mk2 and just didn’t click with it because like you said I’m just loading pre-chopped up samples and not SAMPLING. Problem is I just don’t really sample anymore so I’ve been using it as a midi controller and audio interface, the pads are really nice as a controller.
I use it that way too!
IMO, I have a SP808 EX from 1998, with a zip and jaz disk reader that were removable hard drives of 100 and 300 mega bytes, a lot of space to manage in the composition.
Yes, SP808 was sold as a remixer, a tool to make new flourishes, stunts and changes on top of an original song, with just 4 tracks you could make different lines of effects and loops on the song with very professional results.
It also has a JP8000 8-voice polophony synthesizer inside with 80 presets capacity and there are 808. (8 voices for 80 presets of the internal JP8000 synthesizer)
Ok, I have the SP-404 mkII, but before Roland released the Boss SP-202, E-mu released their SP-12 SP1200 Sample Player line, which consisted of Drum/samplers that could record and play small pieces of audio like 3 or 4 seconds of maximum memory capacity, you had to play with 12-bit sounds.
Ok, SP-404 It means that it has 4 tracks like 808EX, in this case for 4 different uses, looper sequencer, FX processor and digitizer, internal and external audio sampler, a mini DJ station to mix songs made with the machine or long audios . (according to Roland 404 it means those 4 tracks or 4 different uses).
It is even less autonomous than the previous ones, because they removed the microphone to capture ambient sounds, which was widely used for low fidelity sounds and there is his great success by J-Dilla, he loved to capture things with the built-in microphone from their studio monitors for that faded and dirty effect, I now do this with my iPad and the Koala sampler app (an app inspired by MPC 2000 and SP404).
People are disappointed because they believe that the SP404 is a hardware version Koala sampler, and Roland is not to blame for the things that people imagine, because SP has been around for many more years than the Koala sampler app, it is a reading error and understanding of information that is misinterpreted by the same people, because the manufacturer clearly says what it is.
It is not a DAW, it is not a classic MPC, nor a modern touch screen one, it is not a Maschine or an Electribe 2.
It is simply a sampler to create musical bases based on loops and resmapping and can be used as a classic Akai S950 style sampler that was used by DJ Premier together with his MPC 60 since the S950 does not have a sequencer or arpeggiator, these tasks were done by him. MPC60+S950 and he spent his entire life making music for his projects and currently also uses the same equipment.
SP404 mk2 is much better than an s950 and can do very cool things, it can also be sequenced with an old MPC just with the midi. This is where the SP404 mk2 wins with its extensive collection of real-time FX, while playing a midi composition from the MPC.
Thank you for making this informative and useful video. 👍
You seem to know quite a bit yourself!
make more vids like this - great niche , and you're good at it
Much thanks brother! More coming for sure
Can I wait for the rumored "MPC Live Mini"? or will I just buy a 404, though I know it's not what I truly wish for? (Which is a small and lighter Push 3)
New MPC sounds intriguing for sure
So basically the SP is perfect for integrating with an Mpc just to sample your own stems and put effects etc right?
People seem to combine these two a lot. I have no personal experience doing so but many people have said it’s a dream setup. I can def imagine why!
I'll be honest here: your video kind of discouraged me from getting the MK2.
Currently I have a PO-33, a Tascam field Mic and the Roland S1 synth. The PO-33 I've had for years and I'm still having loads of fun with it.
I was looking for a bigger device with more Features that specifically can sample and has loads of memory. Plus being USB-C powered is also really nice... On second thought, I think I'm still going to get the MK2
For what you need it sounds like the SP makes sense. Also no shame in trying and returning it if it’s not the right fit.
I got it because my laptop isn't powerful enough for music production or performances. The 404 on zounds was affordable enough as a back up. But honestly, I should have saved up for a daw.
I love the SP but a daw is never a bad move.
And a way I found to mix the samples is to use the isolation effect
Love 2 iso
Second thing is … out of everything ever made … it’s bigger when you actually see it in real life …
this is true. but the 202 is not
You can definitely hear some SP 303 effects on Donuts 🍩, I think people have a perception that Dilla did the whole album at his hospital bed w an 303, that is probably really unrealistic, just like Mdalib and others do parts of their beats with the SP but also Madlib has been shown using several MPCs as well, amd he admits handing his (post beat) production tp Peanut Butter Wolf for DAW cleanup and mastering. Just saying, what Dilla did w Donuta is legendary, and also what Madlib and others continue to do w that, and other gear like the TE PO 33 is really impressive with minimalist gear. In my opinion, respectfully.
I think he def used it there in some way!
I have the 404 sx and use it with my tr8s, tb3, synth and it works great. As you say it's an instrument
Sounds like a dope setup!
Madlib made the SP's famous not Dilla. But I think the extent to which both used it is greatly greatly exaggerated. Partly because Madlib played into it because it's a good story, much like his "i just use an IPad" shtick now. I think they probably used it as a travel sampler as they both did a lot of traveling and digging. But do I think most of their famous beats were done on one? Absolutely not.
I personally believe that they probably chopped up a lot within the SP and finished everything in pro tools but this is a guess
I do enjoy playing out jungle grooves much more on the 404 pads than the mpc one. I do like it's audio character. I like the realtime reverse effect, I like the delay, but personally I find many of the effects to be kind of just padding. I dont think its the most ideal option to use as your master FX send with the mpc one/live/x as you see many ppl doing, but convincing anyone otherwise seems to be futile because of Malo, Marlo Diggs, Sarah, and Jade. I love Marlo's content, I have no complaints about Malo or Sarah, personally, but I question Jade's motivations because it appears that she flat out avoids talking about the not so great aspects of gear she is sent, and that's extremely sus.
I think given how easy it is to trigger and tweak the effects in a live setting I think using it just that way is legit, even if it leaves a lot of great features off the table imo.
Who were the yt’ers u recommended without names?
Nonjuror and SpVidz are two of the best SP TH-camrs, def check them out
I have 3 new sp404 mk2 that i use to feed a few loopers. I can’t see them being lofi beat machines. They do so much more plus they sound dope. Anyhow I also don’t think you’re getting it either, but i guess that’s way it’s unique. It can be a different thing to different people
I don't consider it a DAW in a box and I will die on this hill! but of course the sound is legendary and I love it for that. also you have THREE SP-404MK2's??? I need a video of that setup ASAP...
@@TouchBaseBeats haven’t been into making videos lately but will make a short
th-cam.com/video/ciY5kPNp_lI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H_p1GLqcDVvktjZS
I love your thoughts and take on the sp. I was a little frustrated with it before because I expected it to be a DAW.
I think it’s a common thing!
its important to research before you spend any kind of money...
I'm considering buying an sp404 mk2 because of the sketchpad use. I play a lot of instruments and sing.
Despite what I said in the video, I think it’s solid for that… so long as you get good use out of it!
@@TouchBaseBeats I liked your video a lot. It's a sober take if I ever saw one. Since I have you, maybe you can give me some advice...
I'm hoping to use it for a bit more than just a sketchpad. The skip back sampling and looper are a big draw. Just plug in an instrument or mic and start noodling. If you like something, commit it to a pad. Repeat, export to DAW if needed and arrange. It looks extremely easy to do on this and it's portable. Does that sound like a reasonable use case to you?
The other thing is that I have a problem with drums. I always have. Whenever I use a VST or load one-shots, I'm always unhappy with the results, mainly because of how tedious it is. I know you might not be able to answer this for my particular case, but how quickly and easily can you do drums on this and get really good results, either via chopping breaks, or using one-shots?
Lastly, of all the things I've heard about this device, the most interesting is that it has soul. Do you agree? If so, what gives it that?
I own so many of these sp device's its crazy😂 i love em all
I would love to try out the 303! They all seem like fun to mess with
Nice points! Subscribing.
Thank you ❤
thanks mate i hope u will teach me
I will be teaching as much as I can along the way :)
👍👍👍👍💯💯
🪩🎵🙏🏻
It's a weird machine. I find it somewhat stubborn and awkward with some really cool features in there as well.
There are indeed some annoying quirks along with the amazing features, given what I want it for I’m able to overlook the bad parts but it’s far from perfect for sure.
This is a nice video and it was fun to watch. However, I have to disagree. The SP is all DAW first and foremost. I use it for my minimalist pop precisely because it forces me to reduce myself in my music. On a classical DAW I would not find an end. But of course it can be anything else, as described in your video. The difference is that this device has no restrictions if you want it to.
It can def be used that way! I just think the people who expect it to fully replace their DAW might be among the disappointed users
My I'm learning to pure hate happened when I realized everything about this thing is to sell you something else and I can't load a sample directly to my pc.
I don’t know what else it’s meant to sell, it’s a sampler that can easily move files between itself and PC
What is going on with that thermostat in the background?
I have a weird old apartment but I’m not letting that stop me from making videos!
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🙏🏻
The Sp Is For Raw Breaks And Loops, only Certain Cats Master That Machine.
only The Illest One Can Make Projects Off The 404. Sp Is A Beat Machine Simple And Plan.
an SP in the right hands can make gold no doubt
if you can get your hands on sp 555 or the sp 808 i guarantee even more fun
those are intriguing! love to see the videos and tunes people make with those.
I disagree with it just being a "Lo-fi beat machine," because you can really make an entire pop song on the thing and perform it live with vocals using an external mic. Some of the worst content I've seen for the SP404MK2 is using it as just a Hip-Hop beat machine and I really think that the real strength of this instrument is the ability to turn anybody into a one-man band.
it's totally possible to make solid tunes on it but the limitations are such that you can't really mix/eq in it like you can with the MPCs or Maschine + so that's why I call it a "lo-fi beat machine" but it's so close to DAWBOX status! Agree that it's amazing for solo performances!
@@TouchBaseBeatshonestly I just disagree, it’s not a Lo Fi machine. It’s anything you want it to be, you can make any genre with the SP. I make real Hip Hop with my SP, not “Lo Fi beats to study to”. And sure Dilla is the “God father of Lo Fi” but he doesn’t make Lo Fi, he makes hip hop. The best hip hop. I agree with everything else you’ve said about the SP though brother
I say "lo-fi" in the sense that it just can't EQ/mix things as cleanly as other devices or like a DAW so it kind of embeds that rougher sound in the songs made SP, not that it's the chill study muzak beat machine and that's all it can do. I don't think "lo-fi" is a bad thing! It's just a term to describe a sound that is less polished and more raw.@@spiketrakton329
Raz Fresco is a fucking beast on this thing my good sir, if you haven’t check him out using it
Yeah Raz is sick!
...and now they added synth engines to add to the confusion....
Not confusing for me, I welcome the oscillators with open arms
I'm the 215 subscriber.
I'm as excited as you are!
Good explanation. But you could at least link the artists you mentioned somewhere.
good call! those links are now in the description
What sampler is closest to a groovebox?
Off the top of my head probably the MPC one since it comes with the ability to create sounds on its own and sample
5:05 SP....Sample Processor...😉
Bahaha I like SamPler better tho
From the specification it doesn't look like low-fi device. Sounds like overuse of this term.
People may not agree but I will die on this hill, songs made completely on this device have an inherent roughness or “lo-fi” quality to them. They will not ever get the most pro eq/compression that would get them sounding like fully mixed tracks in a daw or even something from an MPC or Maschine.
@@TouchBaseBeats Lack of effects or additional postprocessing on samples doesn't mean it sounds like a low-fi. This device is capable of sampling with 48kHz and linear 16 bits - so definitely it is not low-fi.
it should excel as a beat making machine and it should be easier to chop and mangle samples and thats why I feel the unit is a failure. The design choices still baffle me, why is there no button formation as a d pad to easily navigate your wave forms? The sample looping itself when you turn the edit knob needs to be removed. I use the SP everyday but not for making beats and I think thats sad.
There needs to be an on board mic, a universal xlr input for the mic. You need to be able to send separate fx to the front input vs the back. Pattern mode is damn near useless and frustrating (I'll blame myself for that). I still have hard time getting things to loop in time but it's easy on the Model Samples and of course my daw. The fact that there is no live looping is the biggest sin and ruins it as a device for improv live performances. I dont want to have to trim a bunch loops before a show, I just want to make something on the spot like I can do with a loop pedal and a mixer.
I dont regret my purchase but Roland held this thing back from being the greatest kit of the decade. I do need to play with the sequencer some more, which should have been ready at launch.
I was able to do some decent looping just by resampling on beat as much as I could, hitting record to end the loop on beat is crucial. I agree tho, I think the lack of intuitive live looping is a major flaw but perhaps not a mistake given Roland also sells products that do specifically that? Idk for sure but a firmware update that adds some kind of looping would make this thing so much more powerful.
@@TouchBaseBeats that's exactly why they won't do it because they make loop pedals lololol. I hate having to carry another piece of gear with me to do live loops without stopping but thats the way it is.
It’s first and foremost an fx unit with a sampler to assist a Dj
Very well used that way
for $10 Koala Sampler is a better beat machine than any of these.
And no matter how much you get away from using a DAW, you’re just handicapping your creativity
Hard disagree, DAWs have the most features but that doesn’t equal creativity. The character and workflow of hardware spark creativity in ways that DAWs cannot.
@@TouchBaseBeats and yet somehow, some people figure it out
I think theirs loads of jazz’ hip hop shiiiiii* ,, and it’s mainly teens that are directing it or most samplers down the jazz records path …?!! Do they not know we all know are tunes and just because hip hops beats are used regularly … then jazz ain’t new … I’d like to see punk or hard core breaks in thease recommendations channels…..
Not punk or hardcore, but I routinely use it for experimental black metal and industrial. But then I ruin it all by also mixing in jazz and lo-fi hip hop. Feels like anything goes with a sampler, and took that to heart... For better or worse
would love to hear some other genres on this thing!
@GeorgeL909 don’t get me wrong it’s a great thing that samplers are available ,convenient an stuff because years ago you had to be minted to afford the equipment..even thease smaller pocket operator samplers give people a chance to create and learn experiment 🧪 in music 🎶
It's a sampler to me, not a beat maker..meaning,I don't want it for programming,.He Explains it well
Thank you 🙏🏻
For MPC users you can’t approach the 404 like an MPC, the MPC has its own way and the SP has it’s own way once you learn the way of the SP 404 it’s a powerful duo 🫡
Seems to be a popular combo and I can see why