Is Magnacut The Knife Steel Of The Future - Steel Snobs
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- The Steel Snobs Series is for people who want simple to understand information on knife steels and their properties, DISCLAIMER: this is just my interpretation of the information widely available to everyone, I highly suggest doing your own research and if youd like to learn more about Dr Larrin Thomas there is no better resource than his website
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All I have ever heard about Magnacut, is its a miracle steel invented by a mad genius. Outstanding video, great information. Spyderco has said they plan on more knives in Magnacut.
I get a lot of side comments from the creator community and audience that they either think magnacut is overhyped or that most companies don't heat treat it to a high enough HRC to have good edge retention..with sources like blade hq doing biased testing and providing absolutely no context I had to put in my 2 cents😂
It takes a genius to make improvements in steel these days. Magnacut had one, who did a lot of work to make that steel happen.
It's good. It's measurably good. It's not so much better than the other steels that you desperately need it. It holds up to being beaten on or being used in thin geometry razor blades better than pretty much all other stainless steels do, while still having great edge retention and nearly perfect corrosion resistance.
CPM-20CV (basically identical to CTS-204P, M390) holds an edge better than Magnacut does, is nearly as difficult to corrode, and on a normal folding knife, you don't need the extra toughness of magnacut. It is objectively a better choice for folding knives for most people. Salt water use is an easy exception to this.
Magnacut is a really genius knife steel for a fixed blade. But the measurable difference is maybe 2x-5x as much edge retention as cheaper steels? Probably not something most people will even notice, let alone need.
@@phil2082this is one of the more helpful and informative TH-cam comments I’ve read on magnacut lately. Thank you for this.
From what I understand, Spyderco does an excellent job at heat treating and I hope so because my PM2 Salt just shipped. I think the steel has amazing potential and it’s on the manufacturer to heat treat it properly
Chemist/Metallurgist here, like the maker of the so called Magnacut. My experience and opinion,, is that it's a bit overrated of a steel. None can surpass, Bohler/Uddeholm steels, not even close, not even Crucible can't much them. My personal favorites for knife steels, are : Vanadis 4 Extra for small to medium fixed blades, handforged ballbearing steel knives, for any size or use, except fishing. M390/Elmax for Folders (as a Hi-End option,not necessarily the best,because that always depends on the use you put the knife and then are also other factors, that matter even more,like bevel geometries, heat treatment etc
I have Hogue Deka and MKM Eclipse, both in Magnacut. I reprofiled both to 17 deg from 20 deg, using Worksharp Professional. The Eclipse was so easy to do it, but the Deka took a lot of elbow . Once at 17 they had more or less the same edge retention and both reached the original edge after stropping
I have a gen 2 deka in Magnacut it is becoming my favorite steel I do not think it is overrated so far for me it lives up to the hype
Not sure what hrc the Deka magnacut is, but mine performs noticeably worse than my old S30V Bugout; it won't take nearly as sharp an edge or hold it as long. Most of this steel talk is hype, I'd wager most people wouldn't know the difference between D2 and these super steels if there weren't any letters on the knife blade, lol.
@@marty1685the only thing I really like about magnacut over D2 is the corrosion resistance. I know I shouldn’t but when I’m on my kayak and finish cleaning a fish I’ll dip the knife in the water to clean it 😂. I’ve since then switched to a fixed blade but d2 is always a no for me because it’s not stainless. And for my batoning and wood splitting I have an esee 6 in 1095 which is a lot tougher than d2
That’s why I like 14c28n… tough, corrosion resistant and decent edge retention , but it won’t break the bank!
Seems my comment about Boker didn't make it, if it's double, never mind: Their TRPPR in MagnaCut was described to be 63 HRC, when I bought it off their site. Don't know about other models, but at least their stuff out of Solingen, Germany seems to be at high Rockwell. Prepare for the Chaves Mini Redencion Auto in MagnaCut later this year! 🤘
MOST underrated knife that REALLY needs alot more attention and love is the WHITE RIVER HUNTER in magnacut 62-64 Rc...feels AMAZING in hand...
I have an ursus cub and small game knife from them. Both feel fantastic in hand, fit and finish is top notch.
I've been researching $200-ish fixed blades for weeks, and this is probably the closest to the perfect one I've seen someone mention. If it was a 4" blade it'd be done for me. Definitely saving that one for my do-it-all fixed blade.
White River perfectly heat treats their metals. Even their s35vn punches higher than it's weight.
The ursus cubs and M1 Pro in magnacut are fantastic. 2 days ago I was on a roof and needed to cut 8ga wire a few times. I used my cub. Came home did 3 quick light passes on each side with a steel rod and a few passes on the strop. Shaving sharp.
I just received my Benchmade 710 with Magnucut, to go along with 4 other of my 710 collection in Damascus, M390, and my original 710 from over 25 years ago in D2, all still working out great. In looks, feel and performance, size and easy to carry, the 710 is my all time favorite shape for a pocket knife and this new one is no disappointment at all. I know I'm a knife addict, but I've gone a few years without a new one and today, I feel young again. Staying away from Y.T. videos can help, but I'm back and enjoying every update to new blade steels again and loving life. Great channel, thanks.
This pretty much matches what I've seen and heard. My only Magnacut knife is my Gen 2 Deka. Great review Rollshambo.
That's my next purchase
@@patrickbledsoe2176 It's my favorite knife. Tactical Surplus USA has them for $97. I recommend some aftermarket scales for it. The stock ones felt very cheap to me, like it was a toy. I got the Flytanium scales for $104, and I've also heard good things about Original Goat aluminum scales, which are $60
I’ve heard the first Dekas did not have good hardness. I know now they’ve publicly said they are aiming at 63 Rockwell now
@jayrod1980 They didn't. I now have a ABW Model One in Magnacut. It's a beast
I just got my first knife with a Magnacut blade. It's allegedly heat treated to 62 HRC which, as I understand it, is kind of the sweet spot.
Yes very close. 61.5 is the official recommendation.
The theory and initial testing of the product has proven to work great. Now we just need to to get especially Crucible, the manufacturers and heat treatment facilities up to speed before it gets a bad name...There still working through many issues mostly due to Crucible’s inconsistent production methods. I believe Magnacut is suffering from a premature rollout to meet demand...
Magnacut is a specialty steel with specific needs to perform. It’s not fitting in well with manufacturers use to doing things there own way...
@@dlrmon1 Larrin goes into the details of the results he's had with different heat treating methods, hardness, and edge retention test results on his website. The general conclusion I got from all that was that Magnacut tends to perform better when it's heat treated in a way that's not really feasible at large scale, so it makes sense that there would be variation among manufacturers. Hopefully that changes for the better over time.
But yeah, I'm interested in this problem you have with Crucible. What was the evidence that brought you to the conclusion that their production method was inconsistent?
Ive noticed pretty good stability on thin edges on the deka in magnacut. Occasional microchipping was eliminated by convexing on the strop to put a lil more meat behind the apex, but it maintained that bite and cutting performance. However, AEB-L, 13c, 14c, etc 😂, are just a bit easier to sharpen and have a lot i like in common with magnacut while remaining much more affordable. A knife in magnacut is great if done well... But id rather have 2 in the listed steels done well for the same ticket.
I think spyderco was more interested in getting the stainless aspect of magnacut on point than getting a bit more edge retention and that’s only because they wanted it on the salt series.
Which is frustrating because I’ve been with Spyderco for the optimum edge retention treats in a production knife. I’d say S30-110V are stainless enough for me. LC200N is still being used. Have that in green for more than the pacific salt series. Have the magnacut yellow line be the rain series or something. I’ll still be getting that satin bee looking PM2 salt at some point.
Great vid! Clear, concise!! I'm not particularly a steel snob, I do try out the latest and just see how it works for me. I have a Para3 Maxamet that hasn't been sharpened in 2½ years. 👍👍🔪 REALLY enjoyed the info and always enjoy them channel.
Tactile Bexar. My dream knife. Not only the perfect steel and hardness, but their blade thickness is perfect.
böker is in general the worst big knife company when it comes to heat treatment. they should concenrate on 3 or 4 different steels and perfect their heat treatment. their 440a china7/taiwan knives are better heat treated than the super steel knives made in solingen. i am german, but i do not like böker because of this
jo do host recht, muas owa wirklich song das die china 1095 messer ah a glumpad sein zwecks hitzebehandlung..böker is wirklich schwoch
You could've just stopped with "Boker is in general the worst big knife company".
@@dan_taninecz_geopolBetter then Gerber, Schrade, Case, and SOG. Id say they are on par with CRKT.
@@phantomfang1927 I prefer sog to crkt and boker. We'll see, crkt is making a run here.
@@dan_taninecz_geopol Yeah within the past year they have moved up for me. My issue with SOG is they charge too much for what you get. For the price of some of SOG's premium knives id rather get a Cold Steel.
On my way to watch the video on S90v. S90V and 14C28N are my favorite steels, honorableness mention for me is 154CM / CPM154.
I hate s90v personally. Two hard to sharpen and it chips easily. Although the edge retention is great. But I do love 14c28n.
@@Phaminator525I hate s90v also and I don’t like D2. I personally prefer 154cm, cpm154 LC200n, cruwear, 14c28n, 3v, s35v, and s30v. I would be happy with 154cm or 14c28n on my pocket knife forever.
S90V & 14C28n are very good. S90V marries very well with s35VN in a forged "Stainless Damascus" Hunter
You had me worried about Spyderco for a second there when I didn't see them on the first list of known good manufacturers of Magnacut knives. I am a recent convert to their knives and I have been obscenely happy with the heat treat on both my Spyderco knives. American Blade Works is another manufacturer who makes really good magnacut knives with a really solid heat treat. They are 100% US made and are widely reported as having their magnacut blades at 64 HRC.
The American made companies are doing a pretty bang up job on magnacut which is good to see..somebody needs to get on Italy and their soft heat treats though😂
@@RollshamboI’m worried about the new recon 1 coming out in Magnacut, supposedly it’s going to be made in Italy. They also want double the price for it. I’m sure whenever it is released it’s gonna get a lot testing and scrutiny.
@drew8228 try a sog seal xr
@@Huero87I almost pre-ordered that Recon in MagnaCut. But I’m still waiting on my pre-order for the black & yellow PM2 MagnaCut. And I already have a Recon 1 in S35VN and I can’t fathom needing a better steel on it. Cold Steel’s Taiwan heat treat on their s35 is pretty great. I’m skeptical of Italy heat treating their MagnaCut. But if Cold Steel pulls through and their Recon MagnaCut is 63hrc or higher, I’m ordering it in two shakes of a lamb’s tail!
@@Rollshambo a pretty bang on job doing a disappointing 61-62 hrc :D
Dude, I got off TH-cam for a bit and missed a bunch of your stuff. Forgot how top notch your content is! Love these types of vids.
Thanks Matt! And welcome back brotha🍻
I’ve had a few knives in magnacut, but never kept them long enough to really give a detailed enough opinion. It SEEMED really good in the applications I’ve used. The quiet carry the nine held a very keen edge for a good long while and responded to stropping very well. My mcnees was a thicker blade that kept the working edge forever and even shaved for longer under daily use longer than I expected. Two different stock thicknesses and grind types.
I'm not surprised at all..both of those companies are known for excellent production knives...now I have a hankering for a mcnees..dammit 😂😅😭
@@Rollshambo if you haven’t handled one, definitely at least do that. I love mine. On skiffs and it drops scary fast. Like a norseman, zero friction at all. They feel great in hand, very solid and Jon nailed the thumb studs. The hollow ground versions are perfection for a slicey hard use blade.
I only have 2 knives in magnacut so far but both of them are outstanding. I have a Creely Mako pocket fixie at 63-64 (very highly recommended smith and knife that I first saw on Cedric and Ada, Pete's and idjit savant) that is my edc on a small ranch. After close to 18 months of daily use cutting twine, leather, zip ties, wire, pvc, cardboard, feed bags and everything else I've only had to sharpen it once (after trimming some steel mesh fencing, no real damage but made it a little scratchy to shave hair) and quick strop it monthly to keep it hair shaving sharp. The other is an Axial Shift that's more for house duty, cardboard, zip ties and letter opening so it really hasn't been challenged and hasn't even needed stropped after a year of use. So, I think that the edge retention is underestimated in most cases with a properly heat treated magnacut.
I've heard good and bad about magnacut. If the artisan knows how to work the steel and do a good heat treat the steel is great. One of my favorite knife makers, TKell knives, refuses to work with it, thinks it's over hyped. All respect to TKell, he knows more about steel and blades than I do but I love both my magnacut blades and am open to more. It's easy to maintain and holds an edge for a very long time. Easy to strop or sharpen right back to a razor's edge. I've been a knife nut since 1971 when I earned my first cub scout pocket knife and so far magnacut is my favorite steel.
I've owned and used a lot of magnacut and as long as the heat treat is done properly it is amazing! Right now my favorite knife is the Chris Reeve large sebenza 31 w/bog wood inlay, glass blasted titanium and a polished magnacut drop point w/ 63 to 64 hrc And it is just outta this world!
Mcness, tactile, Chris reeve, Protech, etc
Good job sir!
I feel like Magnacut dulls quickly. I have a heretic knives otf in Magnacut and a deka, both go dull really quick I think
As a knife maker, Magnacut is one of my favorites. It's not the best in any particular way, but certainly one of the most balanced. It is kind of pricy, but all in all a great steel. Again like all steels it needs to be heat treated properly. I shoot for 63 HRC.
After seeing this video and reading the comments, since I recently purchased a magnacut Vigtig, I decided to write to Boker to find out from them what the HRC value they declare is. They just replied to me that the hardness value of Vigtig is 62-64 HRC.
Living in the south with high humidity 24/7 I love magnacut
Blade shape and geometry is definitely way more important than what steel you have. The soft as hell Victorinox steel on my Cadet cuts like a laser and is quick and easy to keep it that way. I’ll take a knife with a lesser steel but better handle and blade shape every day.
Exactly, let me add the heat treatment and the sheaths on fixed blades, along with everything you mention, are all more important than steel itself. It's all marketing nowdays and people are mislead.
Yeah, I have a Victorinox Hunter Pro Alox, razor sharp, I do not feel that it is cheap. I also have a Boker kalasnikov OTF knife in D2. Cuts well, minimal blade play, very comfortable handle. One thing American knife manufacturers forget every time all the time is that there is a package: knife, sheath, box. If one of them is lacking, the whole system suffers. THAT IS MARKETING.
I agree that blade shape and geometry are the most important, but why does it have to be either or? I want an excellent blade shape and profile, an excellent handle design with perfect fit and finish, all in a knife with the best steel available. I see this type of comment about handle and blade being very important and the steel not so important, but I wouldn't want some of that cheap Pakistan steel no matter how good the knife is made. As I said, I want the full package. I do have several Victorinox and have had good success with them.
@@MountainLife1 You could check out Extrema Ratio Doberman S600 steel at Coltelleria Collini or other Italian shop. It is HRC 64, great blade shape, great company, great package. Only downside is that it is not a Victorinox but a big fixed blade. Anyway, I think steel is not that important. I mean does it perform 2-3 times than the regular steel? So what? You can gently caress your knife once in a while, and you are there...
@@andrashavas I guess the steel is just a choice about whether you want to sharpen a knife less often or have it be easier to sharpen. So far, I have mostly always had steels that are good, but easy to sharpen. I put AEB-L, A2, 3V and others in that category. I've got one knife in S30V and one in S90V, out of dozens of knives. However, I would like to try one of the top steels in a good design just to see how I like it. I will check out the extrema brand to see how they look.
I have a handful of magnacut knives and my crk sebenza (DOB May 2023) is far beyond boker, giant mouse, kershaw and hogue. Gets sharper, stays sharper and rarely suffers from any edge damage through use like rolls and chips.
This was an absolutely amazing review!!
Have a few Native 5’s and a manix 2 lw in MagnaCut, I’ve only used a serrated edge Native and it’s been fantastic 👋
I have no need for magnacut period. I enjoy sharpening my knives by hand, and the blade steels I like serve me well. I just can't justify the overpriced wonder steel if it is going to be a pain in the ass to sharpen. And it from what I hear, it is.
Enjoyed the video. Thanks!
The merit of toughness isn't just in "chopping down trees", its in permitting knife makers to use slicier edge geometry that's thinner both in stock and behind the edge, and knife sharpeners to reprofile to more acute edge angles before chipping becomes an issue in whatever use case, which increases edge retention while reducing cutting effort.
It's worth noting, on Pete (of Cedric & Ada's) tests, in apples to apples comparisons with 17 dps on his KME sharpener, MagnaCut knives get 628 avg cuts through sisal rope, S90V gets 440 cuts. This of course could be down to mnfr heat treats and random selection of knives.
And Pete's and my favorite steel, K390, gets 940 average cuts. Spyderco, the only production knife co using K390, treats its Seki K390 knives at ~65 HRC, but also key is the geometry. My Stretch 2 averages 0.018" behind the edge with a caliper, better than the typical 0.022-0.025" BTE for comparably sized PM2s or Endelas. And my Dragonfly 2 wharncliffe averages 0.011" BTE, really slicey on a par with Opinels or Japanese 'laser' chef's knives.
Nice list. I have a Tactile and a Spyderco in Magnacut. Both are great for edge retention. Smart discussion about edge geometry. I like that.
The Magnacut Kabar in the Dutch Bushcraft video snapped in half on the first attempt batonning. Told me everything I need to know.
Okay buddy. So I have the magnacut mule team and some custom made knives in magnacut from early on when it was first being talked about and not made available yet and I gotta tell ya Spyderco absolutely 100% knows what they're doing with their heat treating more so than ANY other production knife maker the mules that ive gotten for testing are zwear, m398,magnacut,rexT15, Aeb-L, 15V and recently ordered the K29microclean and HIC the special ceramic but the magnacut mule has outperformed most of them although I believe the HIC may take the cake! Their 15V heat treatment is insane though it is do easy to sharpen and just doesn't go dull it seems but needless to say I do not know of any other production knife manufacturer who puts in nearly as much effort to ensure their customers are getting the very best possible form of the particular steel they chose like Spyderco....
I was surprised by the brands on both your list of Magnacut steel, thank you for the review!
Got the large and small Sebenza 31 in magnacut and they are performing beautifully. Got the Hogue Deka in magnacut too, but haven't been using it much so can't really say much about it. I've been hearing bad stories about a lot of companies making their magnacut soft. I also got a Buck of the month Buck 110 in magnacut with nickel silver bolsters, that will be the first one I test after I am tired of carrying the Sebenza.
Thanks dude, just the video I was looking for
GSO Survive is trying to make medium/large fixed blades from Magnacut and has had nothing but problems with the quality of the materials that they have received. There are a number of videos chronically their struggle on TH-cam
Guy is a known liar and thief. I would very much take anything he says with a grain of salt. He has had nothing but “issues” with every facet of running his business.
True story that guy seems shady. Lots of guys have been waiting for years to get knife when they prepaid. Survive makes tons of excuses to them…but dealers are getting knives...
American Blade Works is heat treating his at 63.5 I believe. I've had no issues with it but a Mcnees I had in Magnacut actually got a couple small rust spots. A little oil and it was all good but it worried me.
Great content, appreciate the info on which companies are doing the heat treat at optimal HRC.
I just ordered the Kershaw Livewire from Blade HQ.
Got a hogue deka gen 2 , cerakote blade with aluminum cerakote handles. It’s been great so far. Has a lot of bite in a cut
Didn’t know up until you mentioned the hardness of which it matters for me that is, thanks for the info.
Been wanting to get a magnacut blade, but I decided to wait till more people are doing it right.
Chemist/Metallurgist here. My experience and opinion, is that it's a bit overrated of a steel. None can surpass Bohler/Uddeholm steels, not even close, not even Crucible can't much them. My personal favorites for knife steels, are : Vanadis 4 Extra for small to medium fixed blades, handforged ballbearing steel knives, for any size or use, except fishing. M390/Elmax for Folders (as a Hi-End option,not necessarily the best,because that always depends on the use you put the knife and then are also other factors, that matter even more,like bevel geometries, heat treatment etc.
Customers always want to know the HRC on Magnacut before making a purchase, but perfectly happy with their softer M390 or CPM20CV. They are not getting the edge retention they want, but the theoretical HRC they think they are getting.
I think manufacturers and retailers have generally worn the public down by producing knives that hit on every level but the heat treat, I don't think you're wrong at all either
It's simple. Magnacut has only been around for 3 years. It's still new in the knife world and there was a lot of manufacturers that couldn't figure our the proper HRC. M390 and other super steels have been around long enough that it's less likely a manufacturer is going to mess it up, and there's lots of tried and true knife makers trusted to do the job right.
I think the bigger question is, why is everyone suddenly shitting all over M390, 20CV and so on?
@Kenny762c great question..I can only speak for myself but the issue I have is when manufacturers promise extremely high edge retention then heat treat m390/20cv to 59-60 on the premise of reducing manufacturing costs when heat treating 61-63 makes a substantial difference in said wear resistance...its like if you bought a kia because they advertised superior reliability but it wasnt because they decided to cut costs..its disingenuous and while m390 at even 60 hrc is a decent steel at that average level it's edge retention/wear resistance isn't all that impressive..
It might be important to mention that the 63+ HRC is if you're looking to maximize the edge retention for folders. A ton of fixed blades are targeting ~62 HRC as they've found it helps a lot with the final toughness of the piece which is understandably more important for those larger knives that will sustain more stresses and impacts. I'm super happy with my Bradford Guardian 5.5 that's in that 61-62 range. Larrin goes into some detail on that in one of his TH-cam videos (Maybe the Magnacut 2.0 one?), but I'm not sure if there's an article about it.
I was happily surprised with Kershaw's Magnacut on the Launch 15; at the time it released, I don't remember them boasting their HRC numbers, but maybe they were and I missed it. Then again, I was also impressed with their 20CV on the Lucha FWIW.
My Acta Non Verba A100 was pretty terrible... there's a lot I don't like about the knife, but the steel was a let down on top of the rest.
Hogue's first batch or two with Magnacut was on the softer side, maybe not as bad as CRK's though. They changed that up before the Deka mark 2 was released (the one without like 9 screws per side of the handle).
Boker might be a toss up? It looks like their Solingen-made knives list the HRC for Magnacut at 62-63. Their Boker Plus line is the toss up as they're not directly made by Boker and I don't think they get or list that info. I have the Solingen-made coffin slipjoint from them in Magnacut, but haven't had the opportunity to put it through its paces yet.
How is the sharpening experience with your 61-62 rockwellafnacut knife? I have 5 being customer made and maker is shooting for 61-62 Rockwell as well. Never had magnacut so would be great to know what stone/diamond plate/strop you find to work the best
@@IronCan88 It's really not too bad for sharpening at all with diamond plates; most of mine are from Worksharp. They may not last quite as long as some more premium options, but they're so much more affordable to replace when needed and don't seem to have any grit contamination.
Especially at the 61-62 HRC range, it seems to take about the same or slightly more effort to sharpen as other 4% Vanadium steels like S35VN, 4V & M390.
Reprofiling down to lower edge angles does seem to take a little bit more time than those, but it's not unreasonable like the crazy S110V's and Maxamet's... and only really applies to folders as you usually want rock solid edge stability and strength in fixed blades anyway, so a 15 degree angle doesn't make much sense.
@@JerryLoffelbein I forgot to mention the 5 knives I am getting made are kitchen knives. Thank you for the thorough info. I was afraid it will be too hard to sharpen since either have little experience. I do have some shapton whetstones 320grit, 1000grit, and 5000 grit. Will try those first then get diamond plate if these fail.
Some people online are saying the best hardness for magnacut is 63-64 but I suppose that will be more brittle and even more of a challenge to sharpen.
my only experience with magna cut is on my leatherman ARC. it works very well for what I do at work. I hoping to get a Montana Knife speed goat 2.0 in it when its available again.
I just ordered a white river model 1 that reports a hardness of 62-64. Very excited to try it out
Very well constructed video, you save alot of us time researching that deep
Magna cut works great for me. Definitely an amazing steel. Personally I prefer Elmax when done correctly
Magnacut is excellent...but atm im smitten with CPM-Cruwear
Given that magnacuts properties are pretty similar to cruwear but with better corrosion resistance what is it about cruwear that has you locked in? I've only tried one knife in cruwear and I love it(spyderco pm2) but I'm not sure if I'd truly rather have it than magnacut
This is just what I think. If manufacturers both foreign and domestic, would stop cutting coroners and do a proper heat treat, the average user would discover that super steels are not necessary.
as far as use case scenarios go for people using their knives I 100% agree.. that said I dont think that would make knife enthusiasts all of a sudden change because just like theres a bunch of old retiree's out there with sports cars that never drive over the speed limit collectors and enthusiasts are enamored more by whats possible than whats necessary in my opinion
been rocking Magna cut and cruwear, my 2 favorite steels right now.
Magnacut is new and revolutionary so people dont understand it properly yet. People are reluctant to run it hard enough and grind it thin enough to get peak performance. If run the same geometry and hardness on a s30v knife and magnacut knife they will cut the same. However, Magna cut at 64 hrc has twice the toughness of s30v at 60 hrc, so you can run magnacut harder and thinner which should give you a better cutting knife.
Here is where the drawbacks kick in, grinding more on harder steel has costs associated with it. Magna cut is notorious for eating grinding belts for breakfast and being hell on CNC tooling. So it's logical that some companies might skimp on the hrc and geometry especially if they feel their knives will perform good enough without incurring extra costs. The flip side of that issue is that most people don't need a 64 hrc blade with a performance grind on it. It's surplus to requirement and most people will just hop on the magnacut bandwagon.
All he said was increasing the rockwell increases the edge retention but then didn't clarify about what it did to the other characteristics. EVERY steel's edge retention goes up with rockwell.
Austenite increases. . toughness and corrosion resistance decrease(although not at an astounding rate in comparison to other steels) I did a video comparing magnacut to m390 more recently and used charts supplied by knifesteelnerds.com showing this..at 65 hrc magnacut still has slightly better toughness than 10v at 61 hrc..which is pretty impressive..anyways thanks for watching and commenting 🙌
I found that protech has some really good magnacut
Absolutely! That's why they're on my list🔥🔥
Good vid. Maybe this will push the other reviewers to press for more openness from the manufacturers. As one of your earlier commenters pointed out, many of your peers probably don’t want to offend the manufacturers too much.
I find that lionsteel and mkm have improved tremendously in the last few years with their heat treatment on their knives from my testing
I wonder have you got any controlled experiment idicating that :
1 Better edge retention than Larrin’s website listed from Ade is due to higher hardness not other properties of the steel or even a systimatic error. Or, Magnacut has similar edge retention to Maxamet in general.
2 Higher hardness equals better heat treatment for magnacut in therms of edge retention in general
Edge retention is highly contextual, it is not simply the “edge retention”column on Larrin’s site, which is directly parallel to the TCC from his second-hand-broken-then-repaired CATRA machine, which is only about wear resistance.
In real life, the longitutinal toughness and tortional toughness and many more factors play a significat role in ACTUAL edge retention, and along with geometry, they strongly affects the cutting ability retention(yes, they are different, very) or its potential.
For rope cutting, tougher steel benifits more as the rope gets dirtier, thus, the performance close to Maxamet could be due to superior toughness of magnacut. Ropes that are natural material also varies hugly from one cut to the next and one piece from another, more control, like random sampling and more statistical analyses like standerd deviation and average values are needed.
For the similar reason, to state a heattreat targeting at a lower hardness is inferior in edge retention to the ones at a higher hardness is misleading, at the very least, more restrictions are required to constitute a responsible comparison.
My first magnacut blade was the Kershaw Livewire OTF tanto blade shape. Was very disappointed with the factory edge. Whoever sharpened it left the belly pretty dull but the steep angle to the tip was CRAZY sharp.... Like hair popping sharp. Took me over an hour to match the long belly to its second edge. Been carrying it every day since and I'm pretty hard on my blades. She's held a beautiful edge since sharpening and after a months use it's still far from needing sharpened.
Thanks for information Shambo👍
Hogue and Kershaw have been my go to’s recently. I honestly used to overlook them because they were cheaper than Benchmades and other premium U.S. brands, so I assumed they weren’t as good. I now regret not giving them a chance sooner, as the deka and the new belair are some of my favorites out of even my most expensive knives.
boker lists their magnacut hrc at 62-63 which is certainly the sweet spot
The only Magnacut knife I have is a Pro-Tech TR3, I don't have a bunch of experience in testing knife steels and I don't do cut tests or anything, I just collect knives and use them but I've been completely happy with it and it seems like Pro-Tech does a really good job with their heat treat
I think the whole focus on HRC is way overblown, from 60-62 hrc to 64, you'll gain about 10% of edge retention and lose 28,5% of thoughness. If you put a steeper edge with a softer magnacut, you'll probably end up with more CATRA without chipping. Larrin put the optimal range between 60-64 for a reason guys. That being said, for a folder i get it, 62-64 would probably be better.
Hope that helps
Actually its less than 10% of ege retetnion in use. Chemist/Metallurgist here, like the maker of the so called Magnacut. My experience and opinion,, is that it's a bit overrated of a steel. None can surpass Bohler/Uddeholm steels, not even close, not even Crucible can't much them. My personal favorites for knife steels, are : Vanadis 4 Extra for small to medium fixed blades, handforged ballbearing steel knives, for any size or use, except fishing. M390/Elmax for Folders (as a Hi-End option,not necessarily the best,because that always depends on the use you put the knife and then are also other factors, that matter even more,like bevel geometries, heat treatment etc.
@@greekveteran2715 good to know. I might be wrong, but what makes magnacut interesting is it's balance? If you aim only at edge retention, it's not very interesting. What's your take on this?
@@jufuh1503 Magnacut is on the Hard side, so it's not in my book of balanced steels,like CPM154 for example. You can't have it all with steels, that's why on blade competitions or military knives, Vanadis 4 Extra is considered one of the best options, that's why ballbearing steel, is considered a classic for hunting knives, that's why you go for a steel with way higher stain resistance, when you go fishing!. For high end folders, I'd pick M390 or even Elmax, way before choosing Magnacut. Also, don't forget, that Bohler-Uddeholm's steels, can't be muched, not by a young inventor, not even by Crucible USA. Steels I mentioned, are the best options for hi-end knives.However don't forget, that steel is the LAST factor on a knife, that you would care for. Even sheaths on fixed blades, as also bevel geometries and heat treatment, are far more important. Don't fall into that marketing trap of nowdays. I only care for steel,mainly because I'm a perfectionist and then, because I have both the degree and I also sharpen/repair knives for living, since the mid 80's..Love them more than anything.
@@greekveteran2715i've looked a bit online, some people say that vanadis 4 E is very similar to cpm 4V. Magnacut is basically stainless 4V. I know nothing is perfect, but it seems like there is a consensus that there is no big flaws in either edge retention, thoughness and corrosion resistance. Maybe the whole knife community is mistaken too 🤷🏻
@@jufuh1503 Crucible (CPM 4V), can't much Bohler-Uddeholm 3d generation powder metallurgy (not even close). That's why M390,Elmax, Vanadis 4 Extra etc, are considered THE best steel options out there. You're wrong about Magnacut being a stainless 4V, nothing similar between the 2, no similar edge retention, no similar toughness, no similar nothing. Your info, is what I usually see on TH-cam, and other sites, where mostly collectors, spread around misinformation like that.I'm a chemist/metallurgist for 40 years now, I also do sharpen/repair knives for living, since then. I've worked in a German knife company for many years and I also sharpen/repair, like 600 to 800 knives per year at home.I'm tired of trying to prove the obvious, with all the misinformation on internet.What I mention, are all legit 100% facts.
I can't wait for WE to pickup Magnacut, I want some Button Lock or Frame Lock flipper knives with Magnacut/Titanium (under $300)
I have a custom in Magnacut and I'm genuinely starting to wonder what its hardness actually is. Feels like when I sneeze near it, it goes dull.
…but is it a super steel? Is it REALLY a super steel?
Based on what I’ve heard (not from experience - I don’t use my knives enough to know that) in some ways, I would even go so far as to say that a steel with this level of performance in overall edge stability (combination of hardness, toughness, and corrosion resistance if I’m using Dr. Thomas’s terms correctly) could reset the bar at what a super steel should be. It’s hard though - There’ll always be something a steel does better than another.
I've got Benchmade mini adamas and Giant Mouse ace tribeca both in magnacut. I reprofield both to a 17 degree edge on my worksharp precision pro. There was absolutely no difference in the sharpening process and so far they both have held equal edge retention. As Lefty would say I'm an Amazon warrior when it comes to what i use my knives for. I'm definitely not bush crafting and batoning with them. Im quite pleased with both knives and the magnacut is holding up wonderfully for me
Benchmades may be expensive but I will say that at least they get the heat treat right😂
Bladehq lists the Mini Adamas Magnacut at 60-62.
Started using CPM in the 90s it has been some of the best metals that I have used.
Not sure bout the heat treat level but I found out recently that Buck knives also have magnacut
I agree… Magnacut is a great breakthrough in steel but it’s attributes are not necessary for folders and many other steels are preferable. Good video, Roll.
I have a Braford 3.5 in magnacut that is AMAZING in it's edge retention. It just lasts and lasts. I've got a White River M1 in magnacut on order and I can't wait. I have that same knife in s35vn and love the knife but don't like the steel. I also have a CRK in s35vn and it just fells soft and gummy on the diamond block. It doesn't hold an edge well but cuts like a dream. I never thought s35vn was a great steel. I think ZT does s35vn as well as anybody. I have a second favorite ... Elmax. I don't know, just seems to cut really, really well.
I bought my first magnacut knife a couple months ago. that mofo is sharp. I am far from a knife know it all, but its the sharpest knife i have owned.
Thanks! Nice review. Great understandable presentation. Thanks for doing the research.
Great video man! Very informative!
I will have this before I pass from this plain of existence. I will pass it on to one of my sons when I do leave this plain. I may get two so I can give one to each of my sons.
Does anyone know what HRC Malanika has there is a knife that I wanted to get but I don’t really know the HRC of their knives.
Not surprised at all but you didn't mention TRM...those guys are pretty great.
Magnacut From MKC is My Favorite Knife Mirror Polished outside carry anywhere No better Weather Resistant outdoor i have owned .Easy sharpen Holds Edge Best .
The next steel craze will be CR1000+
Definitely would like to see k Ives in this steel!
@@Rollshambo The "+" goes beyond MOV.🤣
Or they'll breed maxamet with magnacut... MAXACUT! 😂
@@ElonaldTrusk MagnaMet
99% of makers can’t heat treat it properly. It’s a low tempered heat treat with 10 different ways to achieve any hardness as per the factory instructions. Easily one of the top 3 steels around, but only the best now how to achieve it.
Benchmade in their 2024 catalog list their MagnaCut at 60-62. Got their Taggedout in MC, I like it a lot. Will test it against the Spyderco PM2, once that becomes available...
Yikes Magnacut possibly as low as 60 and only as high as 62??????? Benchmade should know better by now- it’s 2024!!!
Maybe it was just a misprint in their advertisement. Maybe they meant to say 62-64.
@@mikesummers8141 You can look it up on their website or ask customer service if you're interested 👍
Bark River Knives usually have a great heat treat.
I have 3 in Magnacut from Bark River and they hold a fantastic edge.
I think TOOR knives has the best heat treat. My Half Face Blade is Magnacut, and I have an Elmax knife, but the CPM3V that TOOR knives does is absolutely awesome! The CPM-154 is really great, and it is more than twice as good as 154cm.
I feel like there is going to be alot of underperforming hrc magnacut runs in the lower end market. I have the quiet carry nine in magnacut and to my surprise it had a burnt edge but it performed better after sharpening.
Yes sir, you should see the data I’ve collected on the HRC scores for Chinese Magnacut since late 2022. It’s a joke unfortunately. Some of the Artisan/CJRB and Ace scores are so low it should be a crime to heat treat it like that then sell it for big bucks because it says Magnacut on it. I’m talking 58s and 59s respectively.
I send all my non-budget knives to Peter’s for hardness testing as soon as I receive them, and I’ve yet to see a Chinese Magnacut score above 60.3, except my MBK, but it was the one that scored 60.3 unfortunately. Sad, sad, sad.
What was it Dr. Thomas said was Magnacut’s optimal HRC? 64 wasn’t it?
I re-read Larrins article on magnacut and rewatched his video on it.. both are very info dense but he mentions that you can get an optimal heat treat between 59-61 but the best mix of properties come from 63-65 (which is where many companies are now aiming their range....god bless Larrin Thomas hahaha)
@@mikesummers8141
One of those things, where if you want it done right..
It's incredible how much more important a good heat treat is over the steel itself. A terribly heat treated magnacut might get outperformed by a simple steel with a stellar heat treatment in practical use..
Bradford knives recently posted on Magnacut claiming that they harden to 62. When commenters question whether they could offer a higher hrc their comment was “curious why people think 62 is too soft for this steel”. Seems like people are still trying to figure it out. At the end of the day personal usage and preference will affect choice. But even per your review I personally, for my uses am concerned about loss of toughness with the higher hrc. I can resharpen an edge. But if it chips significantly or breaks I’m sol.
I have a Houge Deka in magnacut that rolls the edge with every hard use. I haven’t re-sharpened it yet but it seems very soft. I have Coldsteel s35vn that is better. Spyderco Salt PM2, just awesome so far.
You may have a first iteration magnacut deka..hogue did their first batch or two at 60-62 then made a public announcement that further batches would be done at 63-65
I have several knives in Magnacut. Large Sebenzas, PM Mac 2’s, Rosies, even an Arius, and they are all exceptional. Of course, these are knives with proper heat treatment with 63-64 HRC and spectacular blade geometry. The only knife steel that keeps an edge longer in my collection is ZDP-189. With exceptional corrosion resistance, which is my most desired knife steel property. I can always sharpen again, but rust can cause irreversible damage.
Mcnees was tested by Transparent Knives and was as advertised.
As long as you buy a CRK from a retailer, you’ll get something from a new batch.
Obviously Oz Machine Co, and Koenig.
Holt
Monterey Bay Knives magnacut is excellent as well.
That being said, Vanax is life.
Vanax is nice, I have it from quiet carry.kunwu apparently is also good with Vanax. I know bestech and now we have done some vanax, but I don't know about the heat treat. I wonder if it gets popular, you're going to have people say Vanax is bad
Have you tried maxamet or 15v?
Zdp is interesting because it’s carbide volume is the same as cpm rex 121s
IIRC early Hogue Deka magnacut was also run 59-61…..
You are remembering correctly..Hogue had some of the first largely produced magnacut folders and after a ton of feedback on their first batch all subsequent batches had updated heat treat to get the steel where the people wanted it..I dare to say this but I think many American made companies learned from hogue initial feedback..some did not
@@Rollshambo Did RHK hit you with a cease and desist so they wouldn’t be in the video? 😇
no honestly I know a lot of people were unhappy with RHK RC on many steels but truthfully I just picked a handful of companies and looked into them :D
I did order a Böker Kwaiken Compact button lock made in Solingen Germany with a Magnacut blade a few weeks ago, item number 110073. Their website stated and still states it will be in stock around 13th of April. The website also states the hardness is 62-63HRC.
Did I make a mistake and should I cancel? My current EDC is a D2 blade Chinese Böker and I think I have to sharpen it a bit too often but I miss a reference point to compare to.
What I want is something with a flipper tab, button lock, deep carry clip and a blade that stays sharp for a while.
You mentioned Spyderco having two knives with high-heat treatment. Which two knives were they? What were the models?
Magnacut is great at being just ok at everything.
🔴I have several knives from MagnaCut from different knifemakers. Bark River, White River, Schwarz Knives, Igor Hritz Custom Knives, Dawson Knives... I use them everyday for hard use tasks. It is great steel. 👍
Amazing video Roll. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it🍻
My new Esse Sencillo in Magnacut is awesome. I love it
Leaving a comment just because you deserve it.
Idk man my first magnacut was a tactile dreadeye and no matter how many times i sharpen chip city. Ive gotten a hogue a viper and a handmade bgm and they perform amazingly with no chips and outrageous edge retention. Also a white river m1.
It's important to note that Böker lists their MagnaCut to be heat treated at "62-63HRC" in the Product description of the soon to be released "BFF Packlite."
I'm assuming there will be a lot of difference between the Böker Solingen and the Böker plus (etc.) knives in that regard (and of course also price wise).
What about Leatherman Arc’s Magnacut? Anyone has any idea what HRC Leatherman heat treated to?
iirc, it’s around 60 hrc.
Reminder that this is not a community, it is the knife market.
Markets are considered a crucial part of communities🍻