Its a 31 year train running at 320 kmph pretty smoothly. Wonderful engineering The cleanliness part is certainly sncf's fault and needs to be worked upon but those trains are no doubt really well built.
@@automatix5 built in 1993, refurbished in 2004. Some sets of the Atlantique series with an identical interior were refurbished lightly with new seat covers in 2021.
In Romania we make 100 km in 3 hours, without the 1 hour delay, so 441 km in 1h 30 seems like extraterrestrial life here. You are criticizing the micro-peeling of the door, while we in Romania we at some trains we don't even have a door 😂
I always thought the white spots on the doors were intentional, like part of the design. I guess I was wrong and those cloudy white shapes were just paint peeling off...
This is a premium product with correlated fares - it's TGV Inoui and not the cheap Ouigo. So every detail should be clean and nice. It's known, that technical maintenance of TGV is top notch, too. So, why not showing it to passengers?
8:44 I think you misunderstood the point of the champagne-ardennes tgv station. There are TGV to Reims centre too (46 min). The special Tgv station (40 min) is only for trains not going to Reims (obviously you couldn’t run at 300km/h through the city centre) So you don’t negate the speed gain, you can get more train serving the Reims metro area while continuing further.
exactly, and there also are regional trains that serve as train shuttles so passengers can head to Reims' center station (and some others on the road) from Champagne-Ardenne in 15min... instead of waiting up to 20 minutes outside for a line B tram to finally come and 25 more minutes until reaching the center :)
Breaking news: 30-year-old train has a little wear and tear visible on its furnishings - but is comfortable, punctual, super fast, everyone on board gets to sit in an assigned seat, the wifi is speedy and reliable, and the cabin even has an interior design with some flair and bright colours. Meanwhile, in Germany, the timetable has been adjusted several million times this year alone (not overstating it for effect), the trains are overcrowded with people sometimes having to stand for hours (because reservations are not compulsory), train punctuality is very poor, climate control and on-train food services fail more often than they work, the wifi is intermittent and slow, and, if you take an ICE2 or ICE1 generation train, there is a little wear and tear visible on the furnishings... Italy may have the best high speed railway system in Europe, with Spain and France close behind, but Germany's is comparable to Britain's by now. In urgent need of an upgrade. Finally, I think it's actually good that functioning inventory is kept around as long as it does it's job, even if it looks a little worn. Certainly more sustainable than replacing things that work just because there's a slightly worn patch or a stain somewhere.
Nope. Germany needs to upgrade its system, I agree, but Britain doesn't even have a full semi-quick network. Climate control on ICE trains works very well, the ones that failed were outdated IRE trains. Italian trains are about as punctual as German trains, especially on regional services. Some French and Italian regional trains don't even have air conditioning. As for Spain, its Talgo trains are the worst high-speed trains in Europe and its HS rail network doesn't cover the entire country either.
€77 for a 441 km trip is € 0,17/km. In a high speed train. That is not expensive. Certainly not compared to other trains. It is cheaper then a normal IC in the Netherlands. The interioir needs refurbishing though.
Well. I didn't find anything to complain about when I took 3 TGVs in August. Admittedly, I was traveling first class but don't know if that would have made a difference. However, I was so exhausted after a troublesome trip that morning from de Gaulle to Gare de Lyon, that I was just relieved to finally be on my way to Geneva. (Didn't make it to my final destination, Interlaken, until 10:30 that night, but that's another story). My second TGV, from Lyon to Aix en Provence, was the fourth train that day and so I was exhausted and glad to be on my final leg. I do agree that the TGV station servicing Aix is too far away from the center of town, and I didn't enjoy taking a 25-minute bus ride to get there. My third TGV ride was the best as I went directly from Aix to Paris. All in all, the actual rides were fine. As for seat reservations, I had booked everything in March because I knew France would be very busy with the Olympics and many people did stay on after the Games. One thing you got that I didn't. Even though some of my rides were 3 hours long, I never got any complimentary food. Would I take a TGV again? Absolutely, because you can't beat the speed. But they could use a better connection between Interlaken and Aix. Four trains was ridiculous.
Bruh you were travelling on the oldest model that is to be retired in the not too distant future! Most TGV’s are Duplexes and have the freshest and spankiest interiors with great lighting and door functionality if that’s what is most important to you.
the duplexes are BY FAR a worse experience: - very low ceilings, - no space for luggage visible from the seats, causing a lot of robbery problems (luggage has to be stored near the doors: extremely easy to abuse), - narrow stairs, with even slower loading/unloading times, especially for people with luggage, - complex circulation patterns with almost no attention given to accessibility (both the toilets and the dining car are upstairs), - even if you have no handicap, the toilets are comically tiny and hard to use, the ceiling in there isn't just low it's hobbit-sized, - no recline lever and less space for your legs, so you have to sit quite straight, - but the head rest isn't foldable on its side like here: instead it has 2 static protuberances for small boomers to rest their head on, and this design prevents tall people from sitting straight (if you're taller than 1,80m the U-shaped headrest protrudes into your scapulae). These issues are NOT compensated by their "great lighting"
I was travelling in a TGV Duplex yesterday and its interior also wasnt in a great state. Thats a shame for such legendary trains. Not saying ICEs are perfect, but their interrior is almost always in great condition.
@@lazyhans except the 406, which were servicing the lines to Amsterdam and Brussels but these are almost out of commission now. I traveled on them the last two years and they were in a bad state.
The ICE 1 trains are still running as well.. and they were built between 1988 and 1993. And DB is planning to keep them in service until at least 2030, they also shortened the trainsets from 12 to 9 carriages (probably to reduce the strain on the power cars and to improve acceleration). These trains still reach up to 280 kmh by the way.
Normally an electric train well mantained can go up to 40 years old (and more if engines are refurbished). Old engines at this age (40 years old and above) have more operation and maintenance costs and sometimes some spare parts are difficult to find, specially if they are DC engines. Those Réseau sets are to be replaced with the new TGV M sets, but like other new rolling stock in Europe, there're severe delays in production (The TGV M had to been ready for 2024 Paris Olympics, but is delayed a minimum of a year and a half.)
One of the reasons for the platform checkin is security. Back in the 1980s I worked in France for a year and all stations and platforms were open. This enabled all sorts of undesirable people to get onto the trains and then steal things. Overnight trains were notorious for passengers being gassed in their compartments and waking up to find all their valuables gone. So I'm very happy to see this. (It's worse in Spain as they also insist on bags being x-rayed for high speed trains as a counter terrorism measure, but of course local trains are left unprotected.)
sadly, German ICE platforms are also unprotected and it is so annoying, you have to be aware of your surroundings and get frequently approached by beggars. train platforms should only be accessible for travelers, all the other people have no business being there.
They had an issue with free riders in the early 2000 years, when I remember it correctly. If you get on a TGV in Paris non stop to Marseille without a ticket, you arrive in Marseille. With a fine, but without money on the bank, you don't care about it. And you have the annoying discussions in the train. In Germany, the distances are shorter, so people without tickets in the ICE mostly don't arrive at the destination.
@@aivm And in Germany there is almost no seating on the platforms, sufficient for maybe 5% of the passengers. Given that most trains are delayed by even multiple hours, it’s very unpleasant, especially in bad weather.
How it's bad? They have the comfortable seats, reliable and fastest. Especially on board TGV Duplex. I've been to TGV like more than 10 times and it was very comfortable to ride, it was travelling on speed 320 km/H.
Well seeing as you took the worst TGV in service, I understand that you may have been a bit decieved. But saying that you prefer the ICE seems far fetched... After taking those two services every week for more than a year, my ICE has been on time twice while the tgv was delayed less than 10% of the time. The price was better for TGV. I found the comfort better in TGVs (noise, dampening, seating... although this can be personal preferences). And just in general, I will repeat myself but... In an ICE, I always had to consider that I would be, by default, at least 30min late!! Also, I NEVER had a problem with the seating reservation not being a window. Strange you had a but but I can assure you that it is not normal (my experience is 2 commutes a week for 3 years). And at least the option exists and is free... Which is again not the same for ICEs.
@@KingFinnch il y a aussi les train classique qui font la liaison avec changement de plus londre newcastle c est pareil il y a un train direct par heure sinon indirect il faut 3h
Quite minor complaints fur such a sensationalist title... The TGV Réseau with the Christian Lacroix interior is by far my favourite amongst TGVs, for a design that's nearly 20 years old it's held up quite nicely, doesn't look dated at all in my opinion, especially if you compare it to the drab and tight interior of the TGV Duplex. In fact, I much prefer it to the claustrophopic TGV Duplex that I usually ride on, on top of the nicer interior it holds much more space for luggage!
Can't really see what you are complaining about - OK the trains a bit tatty, but it was still very comfortable, fast and on time! Compare that to the daily unreliable chaos on UK railways, which charge you even more exorbitant sums to travel on, then I'd pick SNCF TGVs every time!!
I think you were overly critical. Fast, comfortable, frequent, and onboard food. Also, the price is reasonable i think. It may only seem like crossing a portion of the country, but France is waaay bigger than the UK, so you're actually going further than London to Newcastle.
the whole point was they weren't comfortable, clean is a very big part of comfortable the food is very expensive, even by UK train standards and the trains are frequent, but not *that* frequent, it's not like they're running 15 minute headways
it is still quite expensive. there is no way a back and forth journey is cheaper than taking the car. imagine doing with a family ? they won´t get people on trains with these prices. I just booked my german train ticket from north top south back anmd forth and paid 34 euros. the difference is huge.
@@KingFinnch It's a long distance high speed train. You won't find virtually any place in the world where demand requires 15 minute headways for long distance services.
@@benjaminlamey3591you can get cheaper trains, and there are definitely alternatives. there's ouigo which is the more budget oriented one. I often get Lyon Paris tickets for 30-40 euros one way in first class.
Well I'm sorry you live in the UK and your trains are garbage. Thanks to the compulsory reservation system you MUST book your ticket at least 2 weeks in advance, this destroys the huge flexibility advantage trains have over planes. Look at the german speaking part of Europe, in all three countries reservations are optional and general travel cards exist. On the other side 77€ for 400km is expensive not absurd, but still highly expensive
Well the thing with TGV is that even if you get into an old one like you did, at least it doesn't last very long since the train is still fast as hell. And when you get into a modern one, it's just a pleasure of a ride.
As a regular traveller of Deutsche Bahn, I find the complaining in this video not really understandable. The airport-style check-in might be too inconvenient, yet the trains seem absolutely luxurious and spaceous to me compared to anything you'd see on one-deck ICE trains.
If you are going to Metz why would you get a Strasbourg bound service with a stop several kms south of the town? Get a Luxembourg bound TGV, first stop Metz Ville in the town centre. You will get a far better experience in a much newer TGV Duplex with less chance of the train being fully booked.
I had that on Thalys and my booked seat was occupied but the officious guard insisted that everyone was in their correctly booked seats, thereby causing disturbance all round, and this was first class
Living in Toulouse, I often take the 4.5-hour TGV to Paris, which actually goes via Bordeaux in order to use the LGV that starts there (the more direct-looking intercity service actually takes 7 hours). I'm super familiar with these trains now, as well as the booking system and its insane yield management. I often book as far back in advance as I can, setting a notification on the SNCF Connect app for the moment that tickets become available. That way I can get a 2nd class ticket for €49 and a 1st class one for €59.
4:18 "it's capable of up to 320 km/h" => nope, 320 km/h is its cruise speed. Its maximum possible speed would be somewhere around 500+ km/h, something it doesn't do in commercial service because it would be just too crazy expensive.
@lausimeyer6558 I traveled with an ICE this year and I doubt the coffee and food was much cheaper, but I wasn't able to read what was on the menu in the video
I've got to say I feel like this is one of the only valid critics he's had over TGV. I have never bought a single thing from the TGV bar because of the price.
Great video! Whilst I agree with your points, as someone who lives in France and have taken dozens of these TGVs all over the place, I will say that whilst I love the nostalgia of these older TGV Réseau units, they are definitely not the best representation of the fleet. Especially when compared to the newer Duplex sets which have been renovated with the most recent "Océane" interiors. I took one of those last week from Paris to Nice and it was such a nice breath of fresh air compared to the Réseau set I had taken on the outbound journey from Marseille to Lille.
I do agree that these older models are a bit tired, however I think they have the most comfortable seats out of all of them so far. Way more padding, less angular, better headrest... I imagine these will be retired for good once the TGV M units enters service next year, and be replaced with duplex units, but I'm gonna miss the seats 😅
11:40 - I don't understand what do you mean. What strategy do you want them to change, selling tickets to people when all the seats are taken? The fact that it constantly sells out undermines the negative review.
@@AlohaBiatch as someone who has travelled on overcrowded long distance intercity trains with people standing and seating along the corridors that's a big no-no. A journey of hours where it's a mission to be able to go to the toilet and then get back to your seat. Affects comfort and safety for everyone in the train. If it's consistently sold out then it needs more frequency/capacity, not making it a bad experience.
@ some countries have solved this. In Japan for example there is usually around 30% of cars that are non-reserved, and so for those you can just get on with any ticket and take whichever train (or stand if it’s very busy, but that’s rare) And the other 70% of reserved seating cars don’t allow passengers to stand or sit there if they don’t have a seat reservation
@@AlohaBiatchJapanese Shinkansen has a much higher frequency of service than French TGV. As you mentioned "it's rare" that you would have to stand. Looking at TGV if you regularly have a car that is over seating capacity you introduce the element of people fighting for seats on that car as a default and the potential issue of being dangerously busy if too many people get on because the next train is in one hour. Not denying that it's a very good solution in Japan where frequency is higher and the ticketing structure is different. But for the TGV network you really want to increase capacity/frequency first, at which point it may become unnecessary to offer unreserved seats.
@ yes, but the problem is currently SNCF retired too many TGV trains early, and their new TGV M orders are severely delayed. So right now they are running at the max of their capability, and there are many frustrated people who can’t even book tickets because everything is sold out!
On German high speed lines, you wil often get standing passengers without this causing mayor issues. It is better to be able to travel uncomfortably than not at all.
@@patrickreuvekamp a ben un accident a 320 km/h quand tu et debout crois moi tu decolle et ta tete va se planter dans le panneau avant c est pour ca qu il faut etre assis question de securite
@@guygodemont3258 There are no seatbelts on a train, so seated passengers are not safe in such a situation either. You can also look at this in another way: people who cannot book a ticket because trains on a specific route are fully booked, are more likely to travel by car and that is a lot more risky than standing in a train travelling at 320 km/h.
13:19 Actually the Connection to Saarbrücken is meant to become way more frequent in the near Future, with a 120-minute Frequency being planned. This was meant to come into BAction this December, but has been delayed repeatedly due to the needed Trains not having arrived yet. France and Germany use different Kinds of Electricity, so it is difficult. What also makes more frequent Connections more difficult is Saarbrücken's Tram-Train, the Saarbahn, using the Track that Trains to Straßburg would have to use up to every 15 Minutes. This Railway, the Oberere Saartalbahn, at some Portions, only has one Track (between Saarbrücken Ost and Saarbrücken Brebach, between Saargemünd and Hanweiler)
Tokyo to Kyoto is around the same distance via Nozomi (30km shorter), longer by 15 minutes (despite running 275km/h), and cost $90 US. Meanwhile Seoul to Busan on 417km/150 mins cost $50 via KTX. I think that ticket price is entirely resasonable. As far as facilities, I think they should have a single large washroom to the side of some cars.
The number of doors is really an issue for the TGV, the double decker are even worse, as people have to lift their heavy luggage on the narrow stairs. For France with its centralized network, that works fine as people are either getting on or off at a station. The international TGV to Frankfurt have huge amount of intra-German traffic, so at Mannheim, its a nightmare. ICE are built for this case. But for Paris-Lyon, they would be too small (highest capacity of an ICE is 916 seats on 375 m long train, TGV duplex has >1100 on a 400m train)
Yes, France's network is unique because they usually have almost zero intermediaty stops so they don't care about station dwell times. Awful for any service with regular stops, especially the Duplex like you said. Probably why France is the only one insisting on locomautive hauled HSR to this day. They rarely accelerate and decelarate since they have no intermediate stops.
No one has ever accused a Brit of being or playing fair with the French, you're no exception! 😁 For the record, the old train are going out of service as soon as the new train (TGV M or Avelia Liberty in the US) comes into service in early to mid-2025, and therefore I don't see why money should be wasting in refurbishing them. As for the cleanliness, I generally have had positive experiences with SNCF, but bad days happen. Regardless, the TGV itself is not at fault here.
I have been taking these trains for my entire life and it's now that they're soon being retired that i learn you can fold in the sides of the headrests :( 8:25: This doesn't work as you think. That station's purpose is that trais don't lose time and money to reach the center of the city. If you want to go say from reims to strasbourg you'd take the train at champagne-ardenne TGV, but if you want to go to paris, there is a TGV shuttle service between Reims-Ville and Paris-Est that runs very frequently, almost making it feel like another commuter train. So the benefit of high speed rail does indeed exist. Also one last thing. You might say i'm biased on that, but i took an ICE once and I won't take it again if I have the option to take a TGV instead. Not only the train is often running late, but it's also less confortable, more expensive, but most importantly for me, the ambiance. On one side you have just the feeling of the interiors. ICE's are like bland futuristic trains while TGVs i find them somewhat cozy. Not only that, but people in the ICE are so noisy man it's unbearable, while in the TGVs you'll get bad looks if you make noise.
So, your only complaints were that your carriage was old and boarding took some time? (Okay, expensive food - but is it really? It's optional anyway.) Boarding at a terminus is always going be somewhat slow, especially with today's security. Also, I didn't see anyone having to run to catch it. Price of journey? Well, I bet 90% of the traffic was on expenses. I did Paris-Toulouse recently - and paid only an extra 10 euro to go first class. Always good to watch your videos!
Le rapport qualité du voyage et son prix, il est bon pour vous ? Pris plusieurs fois le TGV, Duplex ou normal et trouvé seulement un qui était encore plus dégradé que le votre, il avait 33 ans (retiré depuis).
Albie, I love your channel.....but this is the first video of yours I've felt compelled to click dislike on. You literally spent the entire video pointing out tons of positive features this train/service has, that many other countries should be jealous of, and the only complaints you had were honestly quite minor niggles, many of which sound like they are going to be addressed when Duplexes come in soon. You then make a click-baity title and come to a very negative conclusion, and you say the ICE service is better, even though DB is notorious for delays! Either you have become overly entitled/spoiled or (more likely) you're getting a bit desperate for engagement. Either way, it's not coming off well. Please don't fall into that trap. You can do better than this mate. Come on.
Quite an unfair comment. The TGV experience is frankly awful, and reminds me of flying. Give me a slower train but without all the troubles of SNCF any day! I can't in good conscience give the TGV an overall positive review. It wouldn't be honest to my own experiences and opinions.
@SuperalbsTravels Each to their own. I am not the only one who shared a similar view. You pointed out in your video how the seats were very comfortable, there's lots of luggage space, the trains are very fast (fastest in Europe) and the price, while you claimed it was expensive, I think is quite reasonable for a high speed service. I get your point about cleanliness, but that is something SNCF could easily fix and doesn't mean the train itself is fundamentally bad, unlike a lot of newer trains (and they're about to replace them anyway, so....) I just find it funny that you go on trips in Eastern Europe and Asia, on much older, grottier trains and you praise them for their "character", meanwhile they have a hole for a toilet, and paint is peeling off everywhere. And then you take a journey on an iconic high speed train at 320kph, with comfortable seats and say it's not good enough. I can't quite fathom that. It's your own channel, so I can't tell you what to say. I just think sometimes you have a very strange way of evaluating things! Anyway, I at least enjoyed the footage. 😂
I take the tgv like 10 times per month, i've never seen this interior, today's trains are refurbished with only a minuscule part of the fleet dating back to the original trains that are honestly still better than what other countries propose
I rather think that you were rather unlucky on this journey. Having travelled on this route 4 times recently I cannot agree with your synopsis. Firstly on every occasion I have travelled on the TGV into and out of Gare l'Est the trian was stationed on a platform which had multiple ticket barriers. In fact in your vidoe we can see them to the right of your platform. Now my trains have been duplexes yours was not so the expeirence I had was nothing like yours (Hard Luck). Lastly if I did have a critisim it would be a technical one which is that TGV on the Munich Paris route are not equipped with the required train signalling system to allow it to use the new high spedd route, and paritially open, betweem Ulm nad Stuttgart. Other than that I can thourouhly recommend these trians and I plan to use it soon once more.
@@a1white j attend de le voir boire un chocolat chaud dans le vieux strasbourg il va sauter au plafond et faire trois salto arriere tellement c est cher
As someone that way too often has to endure overfilled DB trains and often standing because I can't reach my booked seat, I prefer the French TGV system... a lot. The people complaining probably aren't regular commuters
As a resident of Saarbrücken, the meager connection between Saarbrücken and Strasbourg is indeed very unfortunate. Saarbrücken's connections to France are usually quite good (Sarregeumines, Forbach, Paris, even Metz to an extent...!), but getting to Strasbourg isn't great. :(
This may get better over the next couple of years as we get new trains able to run on both German and French electrified lines. I've got to say as a resident of Metz who's been a couple times to Saarbrücken, you often have to change at Forbach, and when you don't, it's a noisy diesel train all the way.
Sometimes i forget that these trains are still running cause the exterior looks different than it did in my childhood crazy longevity as result of incredible engineering
Take this route relatively often - looks like you had some bad luck with the barriers at the Gare de l'Est (I'll be in the cold cold ground before I call it "Paris Est") as usually there are more barriers open and not nearly as slow. I prefer the Duplex to the single-decker, and admittedly my most recent journey from the capital saw me in a cramped second class compartment squeezed right at the front of the single-decker train - it was uncomfortably warm. But to make that long distance journey in barely 2 hours, while trains back home in the UK trundle along for longer... I'll take that.
For me, this model is the quintessential tgv how I learned to know it back in 1982 between Paris and Lyon. I am happy to see it is still running and I would love to have the opportunity to travel on one of these.
The models you travelled back in 1982 (TGV PSE) look very much like the one in the video but are not exactly the same. The model presented in the video (TGV réseau) was put in service only in 1992. Unfortunately, the ones you knew back then are completely retired since 2019.
I thought he was going to mention the actual downsides, like the fact that the network was built entirely around Paris and for the needs of parisians, or that the luggage space is quite limited on double-deck trains... apparently complaining about a 30years old unit not being extra fresh is better
Didn't even travel on a double-deck train this time. Plenty of the key issues with the service are mentioned, for example the compulsory reservation system, and the hassle of travelling by this train. The Paris-centric network is a good one though, I will mention it next time.
German ICE are always late and in similar conditions. However, they're much slower and capacity is comically low. Not even mentionning all the surprise cancellations that aren't properly communicated to the public... A Brit ranting about the TGV because of minor inconveniences that nobody sane enough notices (scratched paint of a 25 years old train, small stains on seats, and "foggy" windows) seems highly hypocritical when you think about the British high-speed rail service (non-existant even after 50 years of "planning")
I live in the US and you criticize the french trains for stuff you dont criticise the Pakistani, etc trains for. That was a fair fare for the speed and comfort. Its always good to push for a better experience but your judgement sbould be fair and equal.
Hmm... comparing an old TGV reseau to the newest ICE 3neo is not exactly a fair comparison... wait for the new TGV M next for that, or compare to ICE 1. Also, the TGV train might be a little less sleek than the ICE one, but as a full service it's at least a high-speed train that actually travels at high-speed and isn't late 50% of the time (not that SNCF's punctuality record is perfect, but relative to ICEs, not even a contest). ICEs are basically Ferraris driving on dirt roads... Paris-Strasbourg covers 490km in 1h45, whereas Strasbourg-Frankfurt covers 220km in 2h35... And wait until you try Mannheim-Hamburg... hugh. As for seat reservations, I've been on too many overbooked ICEs playing musical chairs at every stop to disagree with SNCF's policy. Although to be fair to DB's policy on seat reservations, I had booked seats on most of these but had to take other trains than the booked one because DB's delays made me miss connections...
I once took a TGV without preordering. Well, I did have a Regional train ticket for the same trip, but it was delayed 2h30 mins just before the tgv arrived on the very same platform we had been waiting for the regional express. I ended up seated on my backpack close to the borading door, not in the passenger area, with 3 or 4 other squatters. When our tickets were checked, the guy was nice enough to just scold us for 30 seconds as we all had a ticket for the canceled train, and we did not even try to find a seat, some people even had their tickets for another train to catch at the terminus as an excuse, as for me I had a long awaited date. So in the end we arrived 20min early compared to the regional service we booked, if it were not delayed. Thank you mister conductor for not being a "the rule must absolutely be absolute" a*ole and allowing me to have found memories of this evening.
Over complaining. TGV is one of the best train service in the world behind Shinkansen obviously. It is not perfect but it reliable, decent and confy. Brits should look into their own trains before criticizing others.
@@SuperalbsTravels After listening to your videos (this one and the other one on the Renfe) and hearing your poor arguments, I will not trust your opinion on this matter. But, hey you definitely know how to work with the TH-cam algorithm since I commented twice. Kudos to you with this bait title. However, the content of the video is very sad and pretty much useless for anyone with a bit of objectivity. PS : just check the surveys. You will see that TGV is among best high speed with Japan and Spain when it comes to network coverage (we’re not talking about a small lines but millions of passengers and thousands km of lines here not like Korea or Taiwan. This is mass transit), scheduling, regularity, prices…
@@SuperalbsTravelswym the experience is very poor ? You spend 3/4 of the video talking about how good it is, (rightly) criticise the cleanliness and the price of the bar, but the rest is just you being petty about unimportant things (who cares if the paint of a train that'll be scrapped in a matter of months is somewhat chipped ???)
I think you are wrong. The TGV trains ride superbly, - far better than any other trains in Europe. The seats are also excellent, especially in first class. Admittedly some of the Reseau single deck units are getting older, and are in need of refurbishment, but the Duplex sets which form many of the services on the route to Strasbourg are really excellent in every way.
Except the fact that tgv's dont have many doors, TGV's still are fine. They are more reliable, lighter, more energy efficient and need less maintenance than other trains. So they only need more doors and you have a very good high speed train. However the mainn issue is sncf's pricing, but that is mostly due to tgv's running without state support (so have to be profitable on tricket prices), while the french government ensures the sncf has a monopoly on most national routes. Essentially giving you the worst of both worlds.
The pricing is just yield management, like in airplanes. The price is also heavily shaped by the "toll fares" of high-speed lines which are pretty high in France. The doors won't change, there's so much demand that trains must carry as many seats as possible, and more doors would reduce the number of seats. The interior of the TGV M has evolved to offer even more seats while giving the same, or more, personal space to passengers. The French government does not specifically ensure that SNCF keeps a monopoly on most national routes, they have to deal with the very contradictory desires of their rebellious population... They are currently facilitating the arrival of Proxima, a private train operator. What they want is to prevent a reduction in the number of available seats where demand is the highest. Proxima bought TGV M's (25 if I recall correctly), so authorities are quite reassured that Proxima's services won't reduce the number of available seats. They will also run trains on certain routes that are less covered (or not at all) by SNCF, taking empty slots instead of replacing them. There's one thing that many people forget : TGV's are used by a substantial number of people for commuting. So for these TGV commuters it's like public transit, but faster, and having multiple operators running the same city pairs would be a big problem, especially if other operators replace a 1480 seat train by a 900 seat one... The subject is much more complex than it appears. Many people in France would like other operators but (that's where things get a lot more complicated) they want a unified way to book, they want frequent traveler / commuter subscriptions to work across train operators, they absolutely don't want other operators to offer fewer seats per train, they also don't want a given route and schedule to switch operator (or only if new operators take empty slots, which are scarce on the busiest lines), and they want other operators to also run less profitable routes. In other words, they want competition on high-speed trains but only if it looks like a seamless public service and if it brings more seats at a lower price without costing to the public.
@@KyrilPG "The French government does not specifically ensure that SNCF keeps a monopoly on most national routes, they have to deal with the very contradictory desires of their rebellious population..." I disagree, here, they are doing whatever trick they can to delay competitors from entering their tracks. Competitors have been trying to access the Paris-Amsterdam route for over a decade, yet none have been able to enter the market. How is the number of seats an argument there, the Thalys tgv's have the LOWEST number of seats/length of train of any high-speed train. A competitor can't offer less seats, as those trains simply don't exist. Or just ask Spain how difficult it is to run a route from Spain to France... About a unified way to book. That requires train companies to give up ticketing information to that site for booking. And guess which country vetoed eu legislation that would make that possible? That's right, France ...
Why is he complaining so much about the ticket price? That's some 17.5 Ct/km, which is much less than the costs of operating a car (35-55 Ct/km). So what point does he want to make? Distance has a price tag. It may only be beaten by a plane travel, but planes don't depart or land in central metropolitan areas, which is why TGV are still preferred for many relations in France.
This youtuber receives a lot of praise for his videos. People admire the quality of the content and the production. But let me tell you what I think: These people are WRONG! This guy complains about a train that is as old as he is (maybe). Next he will take a ride in a historic 200 years old steam train and complain that there are no automatic doors and that the seats are not soft enough (because they're made of wood) and that the suspension isn't that great ... etc.. ;-)
Nice video, but I will be honest, your complaints wouldn't stop me from riding. 200 mph, that makes it totally worth it. I've ridden in the head end on the Acela at 150 and that was so cool, so at 200...wow!
They're good trains, but they're showing their age. I recently took the Eurostar from Brussels to London and back. On the outbound trip, I got to ride on the brand new ICE3, and on the return leg, I caught an original TGV TMST. While both were amazing experiences, with great onboard service, breathtaking views, and incredible speed - I couldn't help but notice the age of the TGV. It was definitely a bit tired, and more importantly, technologically behind. Louder, a tad less smooth, and unlike with the ICE, I could definitely feel my ears pop while descending into the tunnel. I'm very glad that I got to ride the original TGV, but there's no denying that newer, better trains are out there - and from a regular passenger's perspective, they are an improvement in almost every aspect.
Damn I took the Eurostar from Paris to London and back and got in both trains, but found the TGV much more comfortable than the Siemens ones. Maybe that's just me but I found the seating quite unpleasant in Siemens trains compared to TGVs. Also I've got to say I found it quite an underwhelming experience considering the sheer price of a ticket compared to a domestic TGV service.
Honestly even the video seems rather positive? Yeah the trains are expensive, the ticket gates are annoying, and SNCF Connect is a national enemy. But it also runs rather punctual, the train rides are comfortable and smooth enough, and the coverage is decent (although lacking in the south). And of course the older rolling stock are naturally worn out but their days are numbered. I'm still quite pleased with TGV despite it always needing improvement. For Europe I think it's still up there. Also I have to say all the little facts about the different right of way features and stations is a really nice touch. It's good to see someone did the reading to not make it "just another" travel video.
Vendenheim* lol I can only agree about the state of the trains esthetically speaking, they're not cleaned enough but that's mostly due to not having the time to clean them Concerning the colors tearing off, that's due to the SNCF applying stickers instead of painting the new colors on the trains which causes them to rip off with time On new refurbishments, they're actually painting the colors on, looks way better and actually sticks on! Cool to see a review on a trip to my hometown haha
And it's not a mere interior refurbishment, it's a complete overhaul where they even replace the traction systems! Basically everything is new except the bogies and bodyshells
Frankly, I couldn't see what he was complaining about. The dynamic pricing on TGVs means frequently he could have paid less for his trip than he did. He paid 77€; next Wednesday for example, the prices quoted are 59-68. The single-deck TGVs are the oldest design, older than the Strasbourg line itself, which is one of the newer hi-speed lines, inaugurated in 2007.
Well, there have been times where I've managed to get from Burgundy to Gloucester in a day after finishing a morning meeting at Chalon, starting from Le Creusot TGV to Gare De Lyon, hopping over to Gare Du Nord, quick stop for a Mojito before hopping on the Eurostar, then onwards to Kings Cross before hurtling over to Paddington to catch the 19:45 to Worcester. I wouldn't say the TGV wasn't very good. The bar would be a costly option and only there to tie you down until you got to the business class lounge on the Eurostar. But there is a classical charm to the Alstom trainsets which I loved. A good decade's worth of memories for work right there
Champagne-Ardenne TGV is a good example of a so-called "gare des betteraves" (i.e. beetroot station) in France. These are on the LGV high speed lines, usually out in the middle of the fields (hence the beetroots) and have a very limited service, with most trains flying straight through. These stations are added at the request of small town mayors/departmental politicians as a way of mollifying local voters' planning complaints when building the line.
Agree ! As someone else pointed out, the condition of the railways is as important as the train itself, if not more. At the end of the day, the TGV may not have the best interiors, but it still can go at 320 km/h and arrive on time !
€77 for a 400km trip seems pretty reasonable. Also, the last TGV I took, the price difference between 1st and 2nd class was €2. The only reason to travel 2nd is if 1st is booked out. The capacity is an issue, but as you say, they are replacing the single deck trains with double deck ones, which should significantly increase the capacity. The train may have been a little bit tatty. Usually they would have a mid life service at about 20 years old, but since they are phasing out the single deck models, they may be just keeping them running until the new trains arrive. You like them less than the ICE, but you are comparing the newest ICE to the oldest TGV. Personally I'd rather have a slightly tatty train that runs on time than a state of the art one running an hour late, or worse, cancelled.
@@markvogel5872Well given that steam trains were still in mainstream manufacture roughly 35 years ago in China, and compared to what they’re constructing today, I can’t quite note a more exceptional improvement.
@@westy6214 steam was obsolete in most parts by the 1950s. It made for amazing photographs from the people who visited but they only were using it because coal was free from the mines. But yes they have nicer trains than what they used to have. They don't still use a train that's that old. The scarier thing is the cabin shake and the infrastructure of dubious safety.
I wouldn't mind the check in procedure on the platform that much if they would declare the platform and allow boarding a bit earlier. The long lines are basically there because the departing platform (and opening of the boarding process) is declared with like 10 minutes to go. No wonder there are lines. That whole procedure could be done with a bit more time to spare. And it's certainly not because the train is cleaned and they don't want travellers to board while that.
Of course, it depends on what you compare the price with. If you travel by car, you will definitely spend the €77 on fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, not to mention the toll. Flying won't work on this route either. So what would be the alternative? Taking the long-distance bus and traveling half a day instead of 2 hours?
A car with 2 people? Car pooling? And with a car, you can move freely at your destination, which is not always the case, so for a lot of cases, the TGV isn't even a lot faster door to door. So it needs to be cheaper than the car. And at 77€ for 400km it's comparable
what I find cool is that there is a direct train from strasbourg to brussels. and they are old, of course they are a bit rundown, just glad there is free (or price counted with the ticket) wifi, pretty good seating and of course you have to book a reservation and the airstyle gates are just to hold back on people without a ticket. imagine if you have a ticket but not a seat reservation, and it's full, no seats, you (for example) came from brussels to perpignon, good luck on standing all time. for the rest, awesome video
I'd agree the ICE Trains have much nicer interiors and the fleet is in overall better condition however TGV has far superior on-time performance (unless there's a strike). Ouigo is the low-cost option so I don't think it's entirely fair to compare the condition of the livery directly to the standard ICE ones.
You can expect delays on TGV services to/from Germany as well. Those delays are due to German infrastructures. Even Switzerland is well known for the most punctual train services in Europe, the SBB Eurocity service between Zurich and Munich is one of the most delayed trains in Switzerland.
@@Noelegamer SNCF only runs TGV 2n2/Euroduplex into Germany as Only this beside TGV POS can operate on German 15 kV 16.7Hz electrification. Those Euroduplex are 13 years old or less. If you are talking about the oldest TGV in SNCF fleet TGV Atlantique, then it's up to 35 years old, but they only serve Southwestern France routes.
Those prices were not high but standard High St prices here, lucky to have catering on a train, Irish Rail have still not brought it back, except the odd vending machine, since withdrawn during Covid and now have an Alcohol ban on trains and stations, that would cause a riot in France. Red bleaching in strong sunlight is common, one reason I never owned a red car.
I often travel on this specific route and I can't agree more about the filthy state of some of these trains. I often get broken seat/broken power outlet/smelly toilet all over the car, even in first class ! There are newer Euroduplex at some schedule, for example if you aim for the international route (Paris->Munich or Paris->Francfort, with a stop in Strasbourg), they're not that clean either, but less broken... 1:17: you just walked past the km 0 milestone of the Paris-Strasbourg line, it's what the guy was looking at on the floor ^^ Lorraine TGV is also supposed to serve the city of Nancy, that's why it's in the middle of nowhere : both cities fought for the LGV, and in the end they got the worst tradeoff... 13:20: The line to Saarbrücken is not even electrified, so they can only run very old diesel trains (X 73500) this explains the few trains. Brand new hybrid regiolis trains are on their way, some even got recently delivered and you can spot them in Strasbourg station (painted dark blue with German/French flags), but they're won't be certified in Germany until next summer ! There's no r in Vendenheim ;)
The LGV infrastructure in France is really impressive and extremely well made and designed. The TGVs themselves tend to lag a bit behind in terms of comfort, particularly with the leg room, in comparison to other countries.
I took a similar route last year, STR to PAR, with a TGV double decker and must say that was negatively surprised also. I think the experience for the passengers are even worst, more people to come in and out of the low number os doors, really low ceilings, less luggage space, less space between the seats, etc. I felt really “squeezed” during the whole trip and I’m not even tall. I would take the ICE for the comfort at any time
Thanks for the video! I do agree with your observations regarding dirty windows, worn chairs, poor cleaning, expensive tickets and coffee, worn exterior (partly thanks to SNCF's use foil to wrap many surfaces instead of painting). Some remarks/points of criticism: Champagne-Ardenne has a train service to/from Reims city center that is much faster than using the tram, the empty window seat could be the result of a cancelled reservation, sold-out train vs having a ticket but no seat (which one would you prefer?), mentioning unnecessary queues at stations without researching why the gates were installed, unfair comparison of a 30 year old TGV with a brand-new ICE.
The French TGV and Spanish Talgo 102 and 112 are much better than ICE4. The vibration in the ICE 4 is terrible. I traveled from Amsterdam to Köln. This train make you ill. One friend told me the design is not good. I think the ICE 4 trains have more vibration than Talgo Avril.
TIL spain has more HSR routes than France.... At least they have real HSR, unlike Germany which has like 3 real HSR tracks I also notice that the onboard wifi is roughly 10x faster than that of the ICE.
As a regular passenger onboard these TGVs (Atlantic line Bordeaux-Paris) I can only confirm that these trains are showing their age and will not be replaced for a while as their replacement, the TGV-M will only start to be deployed in 2025, beginning on the Lyon-Paris line.
TGV Ms will maybe take time to arrive, but wouldn't it be possible for SNCF to reallocate the duplexes of the Lyon-Paris to other lines in the mean time ?
@@eldonadYes but there is also a lack of rolling stock currently, so it is likely they will first improve capacity before that. On the other hand the Paris-Bordeaux line is very expensive to run, so if there are still single-deck TGVs running on it, expect them to be replaced as soon as possible by double-decker trains.
maybe I‘m just used to different pricing because I‘m from Austria, but 7€ for a sandwich and 4€ for a hot chocolate is literally just the normal price???
I travel often on the tgv and i find the prices can be cheap if you book earlier. On a busy route at a busy time if you leave it to the last minute it may be booked up. Im 6,4 and find second class roomy enough. The trains ive travelled on are always clean too
High speed trains in Germany are comfortable but not punctual. Sometimes catastrophically. French high speed trains are uncomfortable (sometimes claustrophobic) but punctual.
I was talking about my own experience with French high speed trains. For comfort, German trains. For punctuality French trains. I found lier deck French double deck high speed trains claustrophobic.
@@alfaeco15Have you tried corail coaches or AGC's? There's nothing with similar seat comfort in Germany. The comfort of an AGC beats every German regional train by a mile. The corail has more comfort than an old German IC1 coach.
Its a 31 year train running at 320 kmph pretty smoothly. Wonderful engineering
The cleanliness part is certainly sncf's fault and needs to be worked upon but those trains are no doubt really well built.
It seems that these trains haven't got any refurbishment in the last 31 years.
@@automatix5 built in 1993, refurbished in 2004.
Some sets of the Atlantique series with an identical interior were refurbished lightly with new seat covers in 2021.
Extreme loud at drivercabin
It is a very good train. South Korea uses them too I believe
In Romania we make 100 km in 3 hours, without the 1 hour delay, so 441 km in 1h 30 seems like extraterrestrial life here. You are criticizing the micro-peeling of the door, while we in Romania we at some trains we don't even have a door 😂
The British are renowned as the "whinging poms" for a reason like this TH-camr. 😂.
@@adrianpalladino3388 whinging about someone whinging lol
@@geesehoward700 and you're another whinging pom 😂
Still better than anything in the Americas
i will literally hate cfr until my death
Moaning about the state of the doors is being a bit petty tbh but I agree the lights and cleaning needs improvement
I always thought the white spots on the doors were intentional, like part of the design. I guess I was wrong and those cloudy white shapes were just paint peeling off...
it did get improved... in newer tgvs
i do not agree. but the trains and the network is not that well maintained, not regarding safety but aesthetics.
This is a premium product with correlated fares - it's TGV Inoui and not the cheap Ouigo. So every detail should be clean and nice. It's known, that technical maintenance of TGV is top notch, too. So, why not showing it to passengers?
@@lausimeyer6558 Yeah and the fares are very cheap compared to equivalent internationally. People prefer cheap over perfect painting.
8:44 I think you misunderstood the point of the champagne-ardennes tgv station.
There are TGV to Reims centre too (46 min). The special Tgv station (40 min) is only for trains not going to Reims (obviously you couldn’t run at 300km/h through the city centre)
So you don’t negate the speed gain, you can get more train serving the Reims metro area while continuing further.
exactly, and there also are regional trains that serve as train shuttles so passengers can head to Reims' center station (and some others on the road) from Champagne-Ardenne in 15min... instead of waiting up to 20 minutes outside for a line B tram to finally come and 25 more minutes until reaching the center :)
Breaking news: 30-year-old train has a little wear and tear visible on its furnishings - but is comfortable, punctual, super fast, everyone on board gets to sit in an assigned seat, the wifi is speedy and reliable, and the cabin even has an interior design with some flair and bright colours.
Meanwhile, in Germany, the timetable has been adjusted several million times this year alone (not overstating it for effect), the trains are overcrowded with people sometimes having to stand for hours (because reservations are not compulsory), train punctuality is very poor, climate control and on-train food services fail more often than they work, the wifi is intermittent and slow, and, if you take an ICE2 or ICE1 generation train, there is a little wear and tear visible on the furnishings...
Italy may have the best high speed railway system in Europe, with Spain and France close behind, but Germany's is comparable to Britain's by now. In urgent need of an upgrade.
Finally, I think it's actually good that functioning inventory is kept around as long as it does it's job, even if it looks a little worn. Certainly more sustainable than replacing things that work just because there's a slightly worn patch or a stain somewhere.
THIS. people rate a HS train and totally forget that the very railway network it runs on is as important as the train itself.
Nope. Germany needs to upgrade its system, I agree, but Britain doesn't even have a full semi-quick network. Climate control on ICE trains works very well, the ones that failed were outdated IRE trains. Italian trains are about as punctual as German trains, especially on regional services. Some French and Italian regional trains don't even have air conditioning. As for Spain, its Talgo trains are the worst high-speed trains in Europe and its HS rail network doesn't cover the entire country either.
€77 for a 441 km trip is € 0,17/km. In a high speed train. That is not expensive. Certainly not compared to other trains. It is cheaper then a normal IC in the Netherlands. The interioir needs refurbishing though.
they will get replaced but meanwhile they fix the interior hes just unlucky
Netherland train prices are absurd tho
It is VERY expensive. Last year I payed 19 euro to go from Milan to florence (370 km, 2h)
@@antoniovitellaro sncf prices are random you can get 950km for 17 euros
But in the netherlands the price is capped at 30€ or 17€ off peak.
Well. I didn't find anything to complain about when I took 3 TGVs in August. Admittedly, I was traveling first class but don't know if that would have made a difference. However, I was so exhausted after a troublesome trip that morning from de Gaulle to Gare de Lyon, that I was just relieved to finally be on my way to Geneva. (Didn't make it to my final destination, Interlaken, until 10:30 that night, but that's another story). My second TGV, from Lyon to Aix en Provence, was the fourth train that day and so I was exhausted and glad to be on my final leg. I do agree that the TGV station servicing Aix is too far away from the center of town, and I didn't enjoy taking a 25-minute bus ride to get there. My third TGV ride was the best as I went directly from Aix to Paris. All in all, the actual rides were fine. As for seat reservations, I had booked everything in March because I knew France would be very busy with the Olympics and many people did stay on after the Games. One thing you got that I didn't. Even though some of my rides were 3 hours long, I never got any complimentary food. Would I take a TGV again? Absolutely, because you can't beat the speed. But they could use a better connection between Interlaken and Aix. Four trains was ridiculous.
Bruh you were travelling on the oldest model that is to be retired in the not too distant future! Most TGV’s are Duplexes and have the freshest and spankiest interiors with great lighting and door functionality if that’s what is most important to you.
the duplexes are BY FAR a worse experience:
- very low ceilings,
- no space for luggage visible from the seats, causing a lot of robbery problems (luggage has to be stored near the doors: extremely easy to abuse),
- narrow stairs, with even slower loading/unloading times, especially for people with luggage,
- complex circulation patterns with almost no attention given to accessibility (both the toilets and the dining car are upstairs),
- even if you have no handicap, the toilets are comically tiny and hard to use, the ceiling in there isn't just low it's hobbit-sized,
- no recline lever and less space for your legs, so you have to sit quite straight,
- but the head rest isn't foldable on its side like here: instead it has 2 static protuberances for small boomers to rest their head on, and this design prevents tall people from sitting straight (if you're taller than 1,80m the U-shaped headrest protrudes into your scapulae).
These issues are NOT compensated by their "great lighting"
I was travelling in a TGV Duplex yesterday and its interior also wasnt in a great state. Thats a shame for such legendary trains. Not saying ICEs are perfect, but their interrior is almost always in great condition.
Also the low number of doors gets even worse at duplex trainsets.
@@lazyhans except the 406, which were servicing the lines to Amsterdam and Brussels but these are almost out of commission now. I traveled on them the last two years and they were in a bad state.
So are the ICE1s. And still they have a freshed up clean Interieur
1993 train, still running 😮. Also at 320 km /hr
They should be removed once the new TGV M units will come into service
The ICE 1 trains are still running as well.. and they were built between 1988 and 1993. And DB is planning to keep them in service until at least 2030, they also shortened the trainsets from 12 to 9 carriages (probably to reduce the strain on the power cars and to improve acceleration). These trains still reach up to 280 kmh by the way.
40 years is a normal lifespan for an electric train.
So still running after 30 yeears is normal.
@@csabbat I think it's because it then can stop at stations with shorter platforms.
Normally an electric train well mantained can go up to 40 years old (and more if engines are refurbished).
Old engines at this age (40 years old and above) have more operation and maintenance costs and sometimes some spare parts are difficult to find, specially if they are DC engines.
Those Réseau sets are to be replaced with the new TGV M sets, but like other new rolling stock in Europe, there're severe delays in production (The TGV M had to been ready for 2024 Paris Olympics, but is delayed a minimum of a year and a half.)
One of the reasons for the platform checkin is security. Back in the 1980s I worked in France for a year and all stations and platforms were open. This enabled all sorts of undesirable people to get onto the trains and then steal things. Overnight trains were notorious for passengers being gassed in their compartments and waking up to find all their valuables gone. So I'm very happy to see this. (It's worse in Spain as they also insist on bags being x-rayed for high speed trains as a counter terrorism measure, but of course local trains are left unprotected.)
sadly, German ICE platforms are also unprotected and it is so annoying, you have to be aware of your surroundings and get frequently approached by beggars. train platforms should only be accessible for travelers, all the other people have no business being there.
They had an issue with free riders in the early 2000 years, when I remember it correctly. If you get on a TGV in Paris non stop to Marseille without a ticket, you arrive in Marseille. With a fine, but without money on the bank, you don't care about it. And you have the annoying discussions in the train. In Germany, the distances are shorter, so people without tickets in the ICE mostly don't arrive at the destination.
@@aivm And in Germany there is almost no seating on the platforms, sufficient for maybe 5% of the passengers. Given that most trains are delayed by even multiple hours, it’s very unpleasant, especially in bad weather.
@@aivmOr maybe don't let everyone inside your country and start being a high trust society
@@ClassicCoreNightcore That's not very trusting .
How it's bad? They have the comfortable seats, reliable and fastest. Especially on board TGV Duplex. I've been to TGV like more than 10 times and it was very comfortable to ride, it was travelling on speed 320 km/H.
except for the extra ~8% speed, the rest of those are basic standards for high speed trains that almost all of them have
Well seeing as you took the worst TGV in service, I understand that you may have been a bit decieved. But saying that you prefer the ICE seems far fetched... After taking those two services every week for more than a year, my ICE has been on time twice while the tgv was delayed less than 10% of the time. The price was better for TGV. I found the comfort better in TGVs (noise, dampening, seating... although this can be personal preferences). And just in general, I will repeat myself but... In an ICE, I always had to consider that I would be, by default, at least 30min late!!
Also, I NEVER had a problem with the seating reservation not being a window. Strange you had a but but I can assure you that it is not normal (my experience is 2 commutes a week for 3 years). And at least the option exists and is free... Which is again not the same for ICEs.
Seems like some quite minor complaints, for a journey, that is extremely fast and frequent.
... and bang on time too ! One minute living in the US I can only dream of such punctuality.
it's about hourly except during rush hour, which isn't that frequent
london to newcastle is more frequent
Not being able to travel in a lot of cases isn't exactly a minor complaint.
@@KingFinnch il y a aussi les train classique qui font la liaison avec changement de plus londre newcastle c est pareil il y a un train direct par heure sinon indirect il faut 3h
Quite minor complaints fur such a sensationalist title...
The TGV Réseau with the Christian Lacroix interior is by far my favourite amongst TGVs, for a design that's nearly 20 years old it's held up quite nicely, doesn't look dated at all in my opinion, especially if you compare it to the drab and tight interior of the TGV Duplex.
In fact, I much prefer it to the claustrophopic TGV Duplex that I usually ride on, on top of the nicer interior it holds much more space for luggage!
Can't really see what you are complaining about - OK the trains a bit tatty, but it was still very comfortable, fast and on time! Compare that to the daily unreliable chaos on UK railways, which charge you even more exorbitant sums to travel on, then I'd pick SNCF TGVs every time!!
I think you were overly critical. Fast, comfortable, frequent, and onboard food. Also, the price is reasonable i think. It may only seem like crossing a portion of the country, but France is waaay bigger than the UK, so you're actually going further than London to Newcastle.
the whole point was they weren't comfortable, clean is a very big part of comfortable
the food is very expensive, even by UK train standards
and the trains are frequent, but not *that* frequent, it's not like they're running 15 minute headways
it is still quite expensive. there is no way a back and forth journey is cheaper than taking the car. imagine doing with a family ? they won´t get people on trains with these prices.
I just booked my german train ticket from north top south back anmd forth and paid 34 euros. the difference is huge.
@@KingFinnch It's a long distance high speed train. You won't find virtually any place in the world where demand requires 15 minute headways for long distance services.
@@benjaminlamey3591you can get cheaper trains, and there are definitely alternatives. there's ouigo which is the more budget oriented one. I often get Lyon Paris tickets for 30-40 euros one way in first class.
Well I'm sorry you live in the UK and your trains are garbage. Thanks to the compulsory reservation system you MUST book your ticket at least 2 weeks in advance, this destroys the huge flexibility advantage trains have over planes. Look at the german speaking part of Europe, in all three countries reservations are optional and general travel cards exist. On the other side 77€ for 400km is expensive not absurd, but still highly expensive
Well the thing with TGV is that even if you get into an old one like you did, at least it doesn't last very long since the train is still fast as hell. And when you get into a modern one, it's just a pleasure of a ride.
As a regular traveller of Deutsche Bahn, I find the complaining in this video not really understandable. The airport-style check-in might be too inconvenient, yet the trains seem absolutely luxurious and spaceous to me compared to anything you'd see on one-deck ICE trains.
If you are going to Metz why would you get a Strasbourg bound service with a stop several kms south of the town? Get a Luxembourg bound TGV, first stop Metz Ville in the town centre. You will get a far better experience in a much newer TGV Duplex with less chance of the train being fully booked.
It's to wonder if he didn't make a detour on purpose to be able to book an old train and make that video.
If the seat next to you is free, but you still choose NOT to take it, you are a bit strange to complain about ... basically your own choice.
I had that on Thalys and my booked seat was occupied but the officious guard insisted that everyone was in their correctly booked seats, thereby causing disturbance all round, and this was first class
Living in Toulouse, I often take the 4.5-hour TGV to Paris, which actually goes via Bordeaux in order to use the LGV that starts there (the more direct-looking intercity service actually takes 7 hours).
I'm super familiar with these trains now, as well as the booking system and its insane yield management. I often book as far back in advance as I can, setting a notification on the SNCF Connect app for the moment that tickets become available. That way I can get a 2nd class ticket for €49 and a 1st class one for €59.
I would take this over any British train, any day. Looks very comfortable and very fast.
4:18 "it's capable of up to 320 km/h" => nope, 320 km/h is its cruise speed. Its maximum possible speed would be somewhere around 500+ km/h, something it doesn't do in commercial service because it would be just too crazy expensive.
Prices seem absolutely fine for a train restaurant, no?
The prices in the Bar TGV are much higher than in the ICE, where the quality is much better.
@lausimeyer6558 I traveled with an ICE this year and I doubt the coffee and food was much cheaper, but I wasn't able to read what was on the menu in the video
@@AECH_CH I was served a chili con carne coming from a TIN and heated in a microwave on the ICE last week, and I paid 15 euros 😱
I've got to say I feel like this is one of the only valid critics he's had over TGV. I have never bought a single thing from the TGV bar because of the price.
@@Ellister29 I don't get it. 3.3€ for a coffee seems like the price you'd pay at a normal central city coffee... this is a train.
Frequent traveller on TGV trains, it's fast, comfortable and reliable.
The scanner took 4 seconds ,proper first world problem complaining its slow
Great video! Whilst I agree with your points, as someone who lives in France and have taken dozens of these TGVs all over the place, I will say that whilst I love the nostalgia of these older TGV Réseau units, they are definitely not the best representation of the fleet. Especially when compared to the newer Duplex sets which have been renovated with the most recent "Océane" interiors. I took one of those last week from Paris to Nice and it was such a nice breath of fresh air compared to the Réseau set I had taken on the outbound journey from Marseille to Lille.
He reviewed the oldest possible TGV in service...
I do agree that these older models are a bit tired, however I think they have the most comfortable seats out of all of them so far. Way more padding, less angular, better headrest...
I imagine these will be retired for good once the TGV M units enters service next year, and be replaced with duplex units, but I'm gonna miss the seats 😅
@@tower454545 its atlantique
11:40 - I don't understand what do you mean. What strategy do you want them to change, selling tickets to people when all the seats are taken? The fact that it constantly sells out undermines the negative review.
Yes. Some people are willing to stand because it's still better than being stuck in your city that you want to leave!
@@AlohaBiatch as someone who has travelled on overcrowded long distance intercity trains with people standing and seating along the corridors that's a big no-no. A journey of hours where it's a mission to be able to go to the toilet and then get back to your seat. Affects comfort and safety for everyone in the train.
If it's consistently sold out then it needs more frequency/capacity, not making it a bad experience.
@ some countries have solved this. In Japan for example there is usually around 30% of cars that are non-reserved, and so for those you can just get on with any ticket and take whichever train (or stand if it’s very busy, but that’s rare)
And the other 70% of reserved seating cars don’t allow passengers to stand or sit there if they don’t have a seat reservation
@@AlohaBiatchJapanese Shinkansen has a much higher frequency of service than French TGV. As you mentioned "it's rare" that you would have to stand. Looking at TGV if you regularly have a car that is over seating capacity you introduce the element of people fighting for seats on that car as a default and the potential issue of being dangerously busy if too many people get on because the next train is in one hour.
Not denying that it's a very good solution in Japan where frequency is higher and the ticketing structure is different. But for the TGV network you really want to increase capacity/frequency first, at which point it may become unnecessary to offer unreserved seats.
@ yes, but the problem is currently SNCF retired too many TGV trains early, and their new TGV M orders are severely delayed. So right now they are running at the max of their capability, and there are many frustrated people who can’t even book tickets because everything is sold out!
Compulsory reservation is neccasary to avoid standing passengers, one of the rules since the early beginning of the TGV
On German high speed lines, you wil often get standing passengers without this causing mayor issues. It is better to be able to travel uncomfortably than not at all.
@@patrickreuvekamp a ben un accident a 320 km/h quand tu et debout crois moi tu decolle et ta tete va se planter dans le panneau avant c est pour ca qu il faut etre assis question de securite
@@guygodemont3258 There are no seatbelts on a train, so seated passengers are not safe in such a situation either.
You can also look at this in another way: people who cannot book a ticket because trains on a specific route are fully booked, are more likely to travel by car and that is a lot more risky than standing in a train travelling at 320 km/h.
13:19 Actually the Connection to Saarbrücken is meant to become way more frequent in the near Future, with a 120-minute Frequency being planned. This was meant to come into BAction this December, but has been delayed repeatedly due to the needed Trains not having arrived yet. France and Germany use different Kinds of Electricity, so it is difficult.
What also makes more frequent Connections more difficult is Saarbrücken's Tram-Train, the Saarbahn, using the Track that Trains to Straßburg would have to use up to every 15 Minutes. This Railway, the Oberere Saartalbahn, at some Portions, only has one Track (between Saarbrücken Ost and Saarbrücken Brebach, between Saargemünd and Hanweiler)
One train every two hours still isn't particularly good.
What do you want, a gold carriage?! It's public transport.
We can only dream of that level of train transport here in the UK.
Tokyo to Kyoto is around the same distance via Nozomi (30km shorter), longer by 15 minutes (despite running 275km/h), and cost $90 US. Meanwhile Seoul to Busan on 417km/150 mins cost $50 via KTX. I think that ticket price is entirely resasonable.
As far as facilities, I think they should have a single large washroom to the side of some cars.
When you compare it to a car, no its not. A familly going on vacation is not going yo pay 6x the cost to save 1h30
The number of doors is really an issue for the TGV, the double decker are even worse, as people have to lift their heavy luggage on the narrow stairs. For France with its centralized network, that works fine as people are either getting on or off at a station. The international TGV to Frankfurt have huge amount of intra-German traffic, so at Mannheim, its a nightmare. ICE are built for this case. But for Paris-Lyon, they would be too small (highest capacity of an ICE is 916 seats on 375 m long train, TGV duplex has >1100 on a 400m train)
Yeah! Same with planes! What are those stupid engineers doing! 🤣😂
Yes, France's network is unique because they usually have almost zero intermediaty stops so they don't care about station dwell times. Awful for any service with regular stops, especially the Duplex like you said.
Probably why France is the only one insisting on locomautive hauled HSR to this day. They rarely accelerate and decelarate since they have no intermediate stops.
No one has ever accused a Brit of being or playing fair with the French, you're no exception! 😁 For the record, the old train are going out of service as soon as the new train (TGV M or Avelia Liberty in the US) comes into service in early to mid-2025, and therefore I don't see why money should be wasting in refurbishing them. As for the cleanliness, I generally have had positive experiences with SNCF, but bad days happen. Regardless, the TGV itself is not at fault here.
I'm from Britain and I admire France alot
I have been taking these trains for my entire life and it's now that they're soon being retired that i learn you can fold in the sides of the headrests :(
8:25: This doesn't work as you think. That station's purpose is that trais don't lose time and money to reach the center of the city. If you want to go say from reims to strasbourg you'd take the train at champagne-ardenne TGV, but if you want to go to paris, there is a TGV shuttle service between Reims-Ville and Paris-Est that runs very frequently, almost making it feel like another commuter train. So the benefit of high speed rail does indeed exist.
Also one last thing. You might say i'm biased on that, but i took an ICE once and I won't take it again if I have the option to take a TGV instead. Not only the train is often running late, but it's also less confortable, more expensive, but most importantly for me, the ambiance. On one side you have just the feeling of the interiors. ICE's are like bland futuristic trains while TGVs i find them somewhat cozy. Not only that, but people in the ICE are so noisy man it's unbearable, while in the TGVs you'll get bad looks if you make noise.
I actually prefer the interior of the TGV, comfortable seats, no blinding lights, you can actually sleep unlike on the German ICE.
Fun fact: The Korean high-speed trains (KTX) are also TGV Reseau...but cheaper, cleaner and without paint peeling off.
Exactly! So there's not really any excuse for these SNCF examples to be so poor...
So, your only complaints were that your carriage was old and boarding took some time? (Okay, expensive food - but is it really? It's optional anyway.) Boarding at a terminus is always going be somewhat slow, especially with today's security. Also, I didn't see anyone having to run to catch it. Price of journey? Well, I bet 90% of the traffic was on expenses. I did Paris-Toulouse recently - and paid only an extra 10 euro to go first class. Always good to watch your videos!
Le rapport qualité du voyage et son prix, il est bon pour vous ? Pris plusieurs fois le TGV, Duplex ou normal et trouvé seulement un qui était encore plus dégradé que le votre, il avait 33 ans (retiré depuis).
Albie, I love your channel.....but this is the first video of yours I've felt compelled to click dislike on. You literally spent the entire video pointing out tons of positive features this train/service has, that many other countries should be jealous of, and the only complaints you had were honestly quite minor niggles, many of which sound like they are going to be addressed when Duplexes come in soon. You then make a click-baity title and come to a very negative conclusion, and you say the ICE service is better, even though DB is notorious for delays! Either you have become overly entitled/spoiled or (more likely) you're getting a bit desperate for engagement. Either way, it's not coming off well. Please don't fall into that trap. You can do better than this mate. Come on.
Quite an unfair comment. The TGV experience is frankly awful, and reminds me of flying. Give me a slower train but without all the troubles of SNCF any day!
I can't in good conscience give the TGV an overall positive review. It wouldn't be honest to my own experiences and opinions.
@SuperalbsTravels Each to their own. I am not the only one who shared a similar view. You pointed out in your video how the seats were very comfortable, there's lots of luggage space, the trains are very fast (fastest in Europe) and the price, while you claimed it was expensive, I think is quite reasonable for a high speed service. I get your point about cleanliness, but that is something SNCF could easily fix and doesn't mean the train itself is fundamentally bad, unlike a lot of newer trains (and they're about to replace them anyway, so....) I just find it funny that you go on trips in Eastern Europe and Asia, on much older, grottier trains and you praise them for their "character", meanwhile they have a hole for a toilet, and paint is peeling off everywhere. And then you take a journey on an iconic high speed train at 320kph, with comfortable seats and say it's not good enough. I can't quite fathom that. It's your own channel, so I can't tell you what to say. I just think sometimes you have a very strange way of evaluating things! Anyway, I at least enjoyed the footage. 😂
I take the tgv like 10 times per month, i've never seen this interior, today's trains are refurbished with only a minuscule part of the fleet dating back to the original trains that are honestly still better than what other countries propose
I rather think that you were rather unlucky on this journey. Having travelled on this route 4 times recently I cannot agree with your synopsis. Firstly on every occasion I have travelled on the TGV into and out of Gare l'Est the trian was stationed on a platform which had multiple ticket barriers. In fact in your vidoe we can see them to the right of your platform. Now my trains have been duplexes yours was not so the expeirence I had was nothing like yours (Hard Luck). Lastly if I did have a critisim it would be a technical one which is that TGV on the Munich Paris route are not equipped with the required train signalling system to allow it to use the new high spedd route, and paritially open, betweem Ulm nad Stuttgart. Other than that I can thourouhly recommend these trians and I plan to use it soon once more.
Thank god you survived that last trip :) We were worried.
@@a1white I meant the one in Pakistan. France might not be nice but it is safe.
@@a1white j attend de le voir boire un chocolat chaud dans le vieux strasbourg il va sauter au plafond et faire trois salto arriere tellement c est cher
They will be retired in summer 2025 when Alstom delivers the new TGV M trains
No they won't. It will take a very long time for the TGV M to replace all the worn and dirty old TGVs.
@@AlohaBiatch il en reste 25 en service les autres tgv atlantique sont partie a la ferraille avec l'integralité des tgv reseau de 1980
As someone that way too often has to endure overfilled DB trains and often standing because I can't reach my booked seat, I prefer the French TGV system... a lot. The people complaining probably aren't regular commuters
As a resident of Saarbrücken, the meager connection between Saarbrücken and Strasbourg is indeed very unfortunate. Saarbrücken's connections to France are usually quite good (Sarregeumines, Forbach, Paris, even Metz to an extent...!), but getting to Strasbourg isn't great. :(
This may get better over the next couple of years as we get new trains able to run on both German and French electrified lines. I've got to say as a resident of Metz who's been a couple times to Saarbrücken, you often have to change at Forbach, and when you don't, it's a noisy diesel train all the way.
Sometimes i forget that these trains are still running cause the exterior looks different than it did in my childhood
crazy longevity as result of incredible engineering
Take this route relatively often - looks like you had some bad luck with the barriers at the Gare de l'Est (I'll be in the cold cold ground before I call it "Paris Est") as usually there are more barriers open and not nearly as slow. I prefer the Duplex to the single-decker, and admittedly my most recent journey from the capital saw me in a cramped second class compartment squeezed right at the front of the single-decker train - it was uncomfortably warm. But to make that long distance journey in barely 2 hours, while trains back home in the UK trundle along for longer... I'll take that.
For me, this model is the quintessential tgv how I learned to know it back in 1982 between Paris and Lyon. I am happy to see it is still running and I would love to have the opportunity to travel on one of these.
The models you travelled back in 1982 (TGV PSE) look very much like the one in the video but are not exactly the same. The model presented in the video (TGV réseau) was put in service only in 1992.
Unfortunately, the ones you knew back then are completely retired since 2019.
@LaPopliniere ah thank you
The issue is not the trains themselves, just that they are old and need to be better taken care of or replaced.
I thought he was going to mention the actual downsides, like the fact that the network was built entirely around Paris and for the needs of parisians, or that the luggage space is quite limited on double-deck trains... apparently complaining about a 30years old unit not being extra fresh is better
Didn't even travel on a double-deck train this time. Plenty of the key issues with the service are mentioned, for example the compulsory reservation system, and the hassle of travelling by this train.
The Paris-centric network is a good one though, I will mention it next time.
The king has returned with a another video
German ICE are always late and in similar conditions. However, they're much slower and capacity is comically low. Not even mentionning all the surprise cancellations that aren't properly communicated to the public...
A Brit ranting about the TGV because of minor inconveniences that nobody sane enough notices (scratched paint of a 25 years old train, small stains on seats, and "foggy" windows) seems highly hypocritical when you think about the British high-speed rail service (non-existant even after 50 years of "planning")
I live in the US and you criticize the french trains for stuff you dont criticise the Pakistani, etc trains for. That was a fair fare for the speed and comfort. Its always good to push for a better experience but your judgement sbould be fair and equal.
Hmm... comparing an old TGV reseau to the newest ICE 3neo is not exactly a fair comparison... wait for the new TGV M next for that, or compare to ICE 1. Also, the TGV train might be a little less sleek than the ICE one, but as a full service it's at least a high-speed train that actually travels at high-speed and isn't late 50% of the time (not that SNCF's punctuality record is perfect, but relative to ICEs, not even a contest). ICEs are basically Ferraris driving on dirt roads... Paris-Strasbourg covers 490km in 1h45, whereas Strasbourg-Frankfurt covers 220km in 2h35... And wait until you try Mannheim-Hamburg... hugh. As for seat reservations, I've been on too many overbooked ICEs playing musical chairs at every stop to disagree with SNCF's policy. Although to be fair to DB's policy on seat reservations, I had booked seats on most of these but had to take other trains than the booked one because DB's delays made me miss connections...
I once took a TGV without preordering. Well, I did have a Regional train ticket for the same trip, but it was delayed 2h30 mins just before the tgv arrived on the very same platform we had been waiting for the regional express. I ended up seated on my backpack close to the borading door, not in the passenger area, with 3 or 4 other squatters. When our tickets were checked, the guy was nice enough to just scold us for 30 seconds as we all had a ticket for the canceled train, and we did not even try to find a seat, some people even had their tickets for another train to catch at the terminus as an excuse, as for me I had a long awaited date.
So in the end we arrived 20min early compared to the regional service we booked, if it were not delayed.
Thank you mister conductor for not being a "the rule must absolutely be absolute" a*ole and allowing me to have found memories of this evening.
@@Kollum sympa le contrôleur
1. gates are not always there
2. the windows are not cleaned as much as the interior sadly
3. you are unlucky
Over complaining. TGV is one of the best train service in the world behind Shinkansen obviously. It is not perfect but it reliable, decent and confy. Brits should look into their own trains before criticizing others.
It's not one of the best train services. The overall experience is very poor.
@@SuperalbsTravels After listening to your videos (this one and the other one on the Renfe) and hearing your poor arguments, I will not trust your opinion on this matter. But, hey you definitely know how to work with the TH-cam algorithm since I commented twice. Kudos to you with this bait title. However, the content of the video is very sad and pretty much useless for anyone with a bit of objectivity.
PS : just check the surveys. You will see that TGV is among best high speed with Japan and Spain when it comes to network coverage (we’re not talking about a small lines but millions of passengers and thousands km of lines here not like Korea or Taiwan. This is mass transit), scheduling, regularity, prices…
@@SuperalbsTravelswym the experience is very poor ? You spend 3/4 of the video talking about how good it is, (rightly) criticise the cleanliness and the price of the bar, but the rest is just you being petty about unimportant things (who cares if the paint of a train that'll be scrapped in a matter of months is somewhat chipped ???)
@@SuperalbsTravelsIt's not perfect, but still a very long shot from being a "very poor" experience, this is just dishonest
I think you are wrong. The TGV trains ride superbly, - far better than any other trains in Europe. The seats are also excellent, especially in first class. Admittedly some of the Reseau single deck units are getting older, and are in need of refurbishment, but the Duplex sets which form many of the services on the route to Strasbourg are really excellent in every way.
11:56, worth noticing lorraine tgv is not the station to reach Metz. There are >8 tgvs per day reaching directly to Metz city centre in 1h30
Thank you for an honest review.
Except the fact that tgv's dont have many doors, TGV's still are fine. They are more reliable, lighter, more energy efficient and need less maintenance than other trains.
So they only need more doors and you have a very good high speed train.
However the mainn issue is sncf's pricing, but that is mostly due to tgv's running without state support (so have to be profitable on tricket prices), while the french government ensures the sncf has a monopoly on most national routes. Essentially giving you the worst of both worlds.
The pricing is just yield management, like in airplanes.
The price is also heavily shaped by the "toll fares" of high-speed lines which are pretty high in France.
The doors won't change, there's so much demand that trains must carry as many seats as possible, and more doors would reduce the number of seats.
The interior of the TGV M has evolved to offer even more seats while giving the same, or more, personal space to passengers.
The French government does not specifically ensure that SNCF keeps a monopoly on most national routes, they have to deal with the very contradictory desires of their rebellious population... They are currently facilitating the arrival of Proxima, a private train operator.
What they want is to prevent a reduction in the number of available seats where demand is the highest.
Proxima bought TGV M's (25 if I recall correctly), so authorities are quite reassured that Proxima's services won't reduce the number of available seats. They will also run trains on certain routes that are less covered (or not at all) by SNCF, taking empty slots instead of replacing them.
There's one thing that many people forget : TGV's are used by a substantial number of people for commuting. So for these TGV commuters it's like public transit, but faster, and having multiple operators running the same city pairs would be a big problem, especially if other operators replace a 1480 seat train by a 900 seat one...
The subject is much more complex than it appears. Many people in France would like other operators but (that's where things get a lot more complicated) they want a unified way to book, they want frequent traveler / commuter subscriptions to work across train operators, they absolutely don't want other operators to offer fewer seats per train, they also don't want a given route and schedule to switch operator (or only if new operators take empty slots, which are scarce on the busiest lines), and they want other operators to also run less profitable routes.
In other words, they want competition on high-speed trains but only if it looks like a seamless public service and if it brings more seats at a lower price without costing to the public.
@@KyrilPG "The French government does not specifically ensure that SNCF keeps a monopoly on most national routes, they have to deal with the very contradictory desires of their rebellious population..."
I disagree, here, they are doing whatever trick they can to delay competitors from entering their tracks. Competitors have been trying to access the Paris-Amsterdam route for over a decade, yet none have been able to enter the market. How is the number of seats an argument there, the Thalys tgv's have the LOWEST number of seats/length of train of any high-speed train. A competitor can't offer less seats, as those trains simply don't exist.
Or just ask Spain how difficult it is to run a route from Spain to France...
About a unified way to book. That requires train companies to give up ticketing information to that site for booking. And guess which country vetoed eu legislation that would make that possible? That's right, France ...
Why is he complaining so much about the ticket price? That's some 17.5 Ct/km, which is much less than the costs of operating a car (35-55 Ct/km). So what point does he want to make? Distance has a price tag. It may only be beaten by a plane travel, but planes don't depart or land in central metropolitan areas, which is why TGV are still preferred for many relations in France.
Why on earth do ticket checks like that and not by personell inside the train?
To avoid problems with aggressive free riders, who arrive at the destination far away when be thrown out of the train at the next station.
They do those as well!
Good to have you back on TH-cam
This youtuber receives a lot of praise for his videos. People admire the quality of the content and the production. But let me tell you what I think: These people are WRONG!
This guy complains about a train that is as old as he is (maybe). Next he will take a ride in a historic 200 years old steam train and complain that there are no automatic doors and that the seats are not soft enough (because they're made of wood) and that the suspension isn't that great ... etc.. ;-)
The criticism of the boarding process, pricing and compulsory reservations is valid though.
Nice video, but I will be honest, your complaints wouldn't stop me from riding. 200 mph, that makes it totally worth it. I've ridden in the head end on the Acela at 150 and that was so cool, so at 200...wow!
200mph is always so fun! 😍
They're good trains, but they're showing their age. I recently took the Eurostar from Brussels to London and back. On the outbound trip, I got to ride on the brand new ICE3, and on the return leg, I caught an original TGV TMST.
While both were amazing experiences, with great onboard service, breathtaking views, and incredible speed - I couldn't help but notice the age of the TGV. It was definitely a bit tired, and more importantly, technologically behind. Louder, a tad less smooth, and unlike with the ICE, I could definitely feel my ears pop while descending into the tunnel.
I'm very glad that I got to ride the original TGV, but there's no denying that newer, better trains are out there - and from a regular passenger's perspective, they are an improvement in almost every aspect.
Damn I took the Eurostar from Paris to London and back and got in both trains, but found the TGV much more comfortable than the Siemens ones. Maybe that's just me but I found the seating quite unpleasant in Siemens trains compared to TGVs.
Also I've got to say I found it quite an underwhelming experience considering the sheer price of a ticket compared to a domestic TGV service.
Honestly even the video seems rather positive? Yeah the trains are expensive, the ticket gates are annoying, and SNCF Connect is a national enemy. But it also runs rather punctual, the train rides are comfortable and smooth enough, and the coverage is decent (although lacking in the south). And of course the older rolling stock are naturally worn out but their days are numbered.
I'm still quite pleased with TGV despite it always needing improvement. For Europe I think it's still up there. Also I have to say all the little facts about the different right of way features and stations is a really nice touch. It's good to see someone did the reading to not make it "just another" travel video.
Let me correct a thing. The last station before High speed line is Vaires Torcy and not Chelles Gournay. 😊
4:25 erm aksually the ice 3 is specified for 330km/h operations
Although they only do 320 due to track limits
When are your Australia videos coming?
Vendenheim* lol
I can only agree about the state of the trains esthetically speaking, they're not cleaned enough but that's mostly due to not having the time to clean them
Concerning the colors tearing off, that's due to the SNCF applying stickers instead of painting the new colors on the trains which causes them to rip off with time
On new refurbishments, they're actually painting the colors on, looks way better and actually sticks on!
Cool to see a review on a trip to my hometown haha
Sweden's "high speed" X2000, also from 1990, are now undergoing a SECOND interior renovation. Seems needed for 30+ year old trains.
And it's not a mere interior refurbishment, it's a complete overhaul where they even replace the traction systems! Basically everything is new except the bogies and bodyshells
@@sm6allegro ah my bad. Interesting. Only done 1st class once on the "old" style and they are very very nice trains.
These TGVs aren't getting a refurbishment, because they're getting scrapped as soon as the new ones are available
les tgv atlantique on 38 ans des que le tgv M sera au point ils partiront a la ferraille
Frankly, I couldn't see what he was complaining about. The dynamic pricing on TGVs means frequently he could have paid less for his trip than he did. He paid 77€; next Wednesday for example, the prices quoted are 59-68. The single-deck TGVs are the oldest design, older than the Strasbourg line itself, which is one of the newer hi-speed lines, inaugurated in 2007.
Well, there have been times where I've managed to get from Burgundy to Gloucester in a day after finishing a morning meeting at Chalon, starting from Le Creusot TGV to Gare De Lyon, hopping over to Gare Du Nord, quick stop for a Mojito before hopping on the Eurostar, then onwards to Kings Cross before hurtling over to Paddington to catch the 19:45 to Worcester. I wouldn't say the TGV wasn't very good. The bar would be a costly option and only there to tie you down until you got to the business class lounge on the Eurostar. But there is a classical charm to the Alstom trainsets which I loved. A good decade's worth of memories for work right there
Champagne-Ardenne TGV is a good example of a so-called "gare des betteraves" (i.e. beetroot station) in France. These are on the LGV high speed lines, usually out in the middle of the fields (hence the beetroots) and have a very limited service, with most trains flying straight through. These stations are added at the request of small town mayors/departmental politicians as a way of mollifying local voters' planning complaints when building the line.
ICE is great if there aren't 100 minute+ delays.
Those are so frequent, I just can't recommend it to ordinary travellers.
Agree ! As someone else pointed out, the condition of the railways is as important as the train itself, if not more. At the end of the day, the TGV may not have the best interiors, but it still can go at 320 km/h and arrive on time !
€77 for a 400km trip seems pretty reasonable. Also, the last TGV I took, the price difference between 1st and 2nd class was €2. The only reason to travel 2nd is if 1st is booked out.
The capacity is an issue, but as you say, they are replacing the single deck trains with double deck ones, which should significantly increase the capacity.
The train may have been a little bit tatty. Usually they would have a mid life service at about 20 years old, but since they are phasing out the single deck models, they may be just keeping them running until the new trains arrive.
You like them less than the ICE, but you are comparing the newest ICE to the oldest TGV. Personally I'd rather have a slightly tatty train that runs on time than a state of the art one running an hour late, or worse, cancelled.
They are better than Chinese trains.😊
🤣 sure
@JM-wd3dk show me a Chinese made train still running after 30 years. Oh wait...that's impossible.
@@markvogel5872Well given that steam trains were still in mainstream manufacture roughly 35 years ago in China, and compared to what they’re constructing today, I can’t quite note a more exceptional improvement.
@@westy6214 steam was obsolete in most parts by the 1950s. It made for amazing photographs from the people who visited but they only were using it because coal was free from the mines. But yes they have nicer trains than what they used to have. They don't still use a train that's that old. The scarier thing is the cabin shake and the infrastructure of dubious safety.
@@markvogel5872 Given that China's HSR history doesn't even have 30 years that's literally impossible.
Superalbs Travels, thank you for making this video, from tomorrow can you make an adventure video of Eurostar Train please?
Can you make an Eurostar Train Adventure Video from tomorrow please?
I wouldn't mind the check in procedure on the platform that much if they would declare the platform and allow boarding a bit earlier.
The long lines are basically there because the departing platform (and opening of the boarding process) is declared with like 10 minutes to go.
No wonder there are lines.
That whole procedure could be done with a bit more time to spare.
And it's certainly not because the train is cleaned and they don't want travellers to board while that.
Of course, it depends on what you compare the price with. If you travel by car, you will definitely spend the €77 on fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, not to mention the toll. Flying won't work on this route either. So what would be the alternative? Taking the long-distance bus and traveling half a day instead of 2 hours?
A car with 2 people? Car pooling? And with a car, you can move freely at your destination, which is not always the case, so for a lot of cases, the TGV isn't even a lot faster door to door. So it needs to be cheaper than the car. And at 77€ for 400km it's comparable
prendre un tgv ougo a 38 euros
really like your videos! good to watch it always
Sometimes they just open the platform gates to prevent algomerations and departure delay.
what I find cool is that there is a direct train from strasbourg to brussels. and they are old, of course they are a bit rundown, just glad there is free (or price counted with the ticket) wifi, pretty good seating and of course you have to book a reservation and the airstyle gates are just to hold back on people without a ticket. imagine if you have a ticket but not a seat reservation, and it's full, no seats, you (for example) came from brussels to perpignon, good luck on standing all time. for the rest, awesome video
I'd agree the ICE Trains have much nicer interiors and the fleet is in overall better condition however TGV has far superior on-time performance (unless there's a strike). Ouigo is the low-cost option so I don't think it's entirely fair to compare the condition of the livery directly to the standard ICE ones.
You can expect delays on TGV services to/from Germany as well. Those delays are due to German infrastructures. Even Switzerland is well known for the most punctual train services in Europe, the SBB Eurocity service between Zurich and Munich is one of the most delayed trains in Switzerland.
Obviously it’s 31 years old train !!!
@@Noelegamer SNCF only runs TGV 2n2/Euroduplex into Germany as Only this beside TGV POS can operate on German 15 kV 16.7Hz electrification. Those Euroduplex are 13 years old or less. If you are talking about the oldest TGV in SNCF fleet TGV Atlantique, then it's up to 35 years old, but they only serve Southwestern France routes.
Those prices were not high but standard High St prices here, lucky to have catering on a train, Irish Rail have still not brought it back, except the odd vending machine, since withdrawn during Covid and now have an Alcohol ban on trains and stations, that would cause a riot in France. Red bleaching in strong sunlight is common, one reason I never owned a red car.
First like and comment! Love your content!
Well, it was on my pc anyway!
I often travel on this specific route and I can't agree more about the filthy state of some of these trains. I often get broken seat/broken power outlet/smelly toilet all over the car, even in first class ! There are newer Euroduplex at some schedule, for example if you aim for the international route (Paris->Munich or Paris->Francfort, with a stop in Strasbourg), they're not that clean either, but less broken...
1:17: you just walked past the km 0 milestone of the Paris-Strasbourg line, it's what the guy was looking at on the floor ^^
Lorraine TGV is also supposed to serve the city of Nancy, that's why it's in the middle of nowhere : both cities fought for the LGV, and in the end they got the worst tradeoff...
13:20: The line to Saarbrücken is not even electrified, so they can only run very old diesel trains (X 73500) this explains the few trains. Brand new hybrid regiolis trains are on their way, some even got recently delivered and you can spot them in Strasbourg station (painted dark blue with German/French flags), but they're won't be certified in Germany until next summer !
There's no r in Vendenheim ;)
The LGV infrastructure in France is really impressive and extremely well made and designed. The TGVs themselves tend to lag a bit behind in terms of comfort, particularly with the leg room, in comparison to other countries.
I took a similar route last year, STR to PAR, with a TGV double decker and must say that was negatively surprised also. I think the experience for the passengers are even worst, more people to come in and out of the low number os doors, really low ceilings, less luggage space, less space between the seats, etc. I felt really “squeezed” during the whole trip and I’m not even tall. I would take the ICE for the comfort at any time
Thanks for the video! I do agree with your observations regarding dirty windows, worn chairs, poor cleaning, expensive tickets and coffee, worn exterior (partly thanks to SNCF's use foil to wrap many surfaces instead of painting).
Some remarks/points of criticism:
Champagne-Ardenne has a train service to/from Reims city center that is much faster than using the tram, the empty window seat could be the result of a cancelled reservation, sold-out train vs having a ticket but no seat (which one would you prefer?), mentioning unnecessary queues at stations without researching why the gates were installed, unfair comparison of a 30 year old TGV with a brand-new ICE.
The French TGV and Spanish Talgo 102 and 112 are much better than ICE4. The vibration in the ICE 4 is terrible. I traveled from Amsterdam to Köln. This train make you ill.
One friend told me the design is not good. I think the ICE 4 trains have more vibration than Talgo Avril.
The Chinese has got BEST high speed train, hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!
China, France, Japan, Germany, Spain and Korea.
les chinois on le plus grand nombre de mort en train rapide aussi mais ca il faut pas le dire
TIL spain has more HSR routes than France....
At least they have real HSR, unlike Germany which has like 3 real HSR tracks
I also notice that the onboard wifi is roughly 10x faster than that of the ICE.
As a regular passenger onboard these TGVs (Atlantic line Bordeaux-Paris) I can only confirm that these trains are showing their age and will not be replaced for a while as their replacement, the TGV-M will only start to be deployed in 2025, beginning on the Lyon-Paris line.
TGV Ms will maybe take time to arrive, but wouldn't it be possible for SNCF to reallocate the duplexes of the Lyon-Paris to other lines in the mean time ?
@@eldonadYes but there is also a lack of rolling stock currently, so it is likely they will first improve capacity before that.
On the other hand the Paris-Bordeaux line is very expensive to run, so if there are still single-deck TGVs running on it, expect them to be replaced as soon as possible by double-decker trains.
maybe I‘m just used to different pricing because I‘m from Austria, but 7€ for a sandwich and 4€ for a hot chocolate is literally just the normal price???
Despite the slightly dated interiors, I do find the TGVs some of the most comfortable riding trains out there!
I travel often on the tgv and i find the prices can be cheap if you book earlier. On a busy route at a busy time if you leave it to the last minute it may be booked up. Im 6,4 and find second class roomy enough. The trains ive travelled on are always clean too
High speed trains in Germany are comfortable but not punctual. Sometimes catastrophically.
French high speed trains are uncomfortable (sometimes claustrophobic) but punctual.
He booked an old train he didn't have too. The regular trains are comfortable.
I was talking about my own experience with French high speed trains.
For comfort, German trains.
For punctuality French trains.
I found lier deck French double deck high speed trains claustrophobic.
@alfaeco15 Err no, read your initial comment again, you just made an assertion and gave zero indication that it was simply your personal experience.
@@puccalandThe irony that older trains mostly have more comfortable seats
@@alfaeco15Have you tried corail coaches or AGC's? There's nothing with similar seat comfort in Germany. The comfort of an AGC beats every German regional train by a mile. The corail has more comfort than an old German IC1 coach.