Is this really Europe’s worst EVER train?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- This is Europe's WORST high-speed train - the terrible Talgo Avril! 🤢
Join me for a rough and uncomfortable journey through Spain aboard the country's newest Talgo train operating on the Renfe AVE service. This isn't going to be an easy trip in Renfe AVE First Class, on what could well be Europe's worst train...
---
Journey Details:
Origin: Madrid-Chamartín
Destination: Gijón
Company: Renfe
Train: Renfe S106 (Talgo Avril)
Accommodation: Premium Confort Seat (1st)
Distance: 476 kilometres / 296 miles
Price: €71.80 (£60.60 / $76.90)
Time: 3 hours 36 minutes, arrived 4 minutes late
---
Find me elsewhere:
superalbs.weeb...
/ superalbs
/ superalbstravels
/ superalbstravels
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Madrid Chamartín has some construction works going on at the moment.
It doesn’t matter when you’re reading this
True, it doesn't matter when, the construction will go on for years
It does resemble an airport outside as well .
@@arch9enius Wow. It really does look like an airport. The crappy lighting makes me think favourably of Euston, and that's not a good thing!
@@arch9enius they’re opening a new concourse tomorrow. If you think it already looks like an airport, bear yourself…
@@willingshelf TBF most station concourses are all shops , only the addition of a duty free would swing it
My wife and I have just spent a couple of weeks travelling through Spain on TALGOs. Although there is noticeable vibration as the video describes, comfort was 'adequate' and distances covered for the price(s) were excellent value for us. Locals did not seem to have a problem with the train. Really enjoy the channel - thank you - but I too think 'nightmare' is an overstatement, unless the video gets extra views from this title!!
The story is as follows, 2016 there is a new contract launched for new trains that must have +500 seats, be accesible and able to change gauge and ride at over 300 km/h borh in 1435 mm gauge and 1668 mm gauge.
Talgo won the contract offering a 40% discount and almost 50% cheaper than Alstom offer. You get what you paid for.
Justamente, la licitación estaba totalmente orientada a que Talgo la ganara, ya que se excluían los trenes de doble piso como alternativa para acomodar a 500 pasajeros. Recuerdo que inicialmente Renfe quería mantener la configuración de asientos 2+1 y 2+2, pero como la tecnología (atrasada) de Talgo no permitía otra solución, simplemente acomodaron nuevamente la licitación y ahora los asientos son de 2+2 y 3+2. Una basura.
Didn't the specification include things like ride quality and track forces? It sounds as if RENFE slipped up badly. On the principle of Newton's First Law of Motion, it can be deduced that trains that give a bumpy ride are smashing up the track. It has become a major problem, especially for switches and crossings. A very false economy.
300 kph comes at a disproportionately high price compared to 200 kph.And why are they building 1435 mm gauge tracks in Spain anyway? It was no big deal changing trains at Cerbere and Port Bou.
@@physiocrat7143 the 1435 mm gauge I still believe it has no sense, we should have sticked to the 1,668 mm iberian gauge but I believe it was a way trying to increase traffic to and from Europe. The real issue with these trains is that Renfe wanted it all, low floor trains with 500+ people capacity and no double decker, with 40% less weight to reduce rail tariffs and to a 60% of the price offered by other competitors (including CAF).
@@mckiwen
Hmm. Would be easier to raise the platforms to a proper height eg 915 mm, with 1300 mm as a standard floor height. Low floor railway vehicles are a very bad idea as they constrain the design of the suspension system and restrict what can be placed under the floor. This in turn means a loss of useable space or having to put kit on the roof, which is a bad place. It also makes life difficult for the maintenance staff.
500 passengers can be seated in comfort in 7 vehicles of 23 metres; a single 26 m vehicle will seat 80 passengers without having to cram in the seats.
Track wear depends on more than axle load. The compliance of the suspension system and the amount of unsprung mass are critical.
A 23 metre vehicle should not weigh more than 36 tons ie the axle load is 9 tons. Double deckers weigh about 50 tons: high speed running of such vehicles will take its toll on the infrastructure
A low floor makes it harder to optimise the design of the suspension. Rough riding means track bashing.The "cheap" Talgo trains will cost RENFE big money in the long term.
We have the same problem with Gothenburg trams. The more recent types are hard on the track, and the result is more closures for repairs, sudden shutdowns for unscheduled repairs and increased maintenance costs.
I suspect that the current generation of railway managers at executive and decision-making level do not understand the technical issues as they manifest on the ground.
The decision for 1435 gauge was probably the result of EU interference. 1663 is superior as it is a bit more stable and allows more space under the floor for equipment etc. It is why it was chosen for India, South America, and more recently, for the BART system.
Bogie changing for freight and sleeping car trains is a well established technology.
@@physiocrat7143 old Talgo trains used by Renfe with similar characteristics (S-102, S-112 , S-130 and S-730 series) are quite confortable and reliable; no issue for being low floor trains and single axis per coach, it is Talgo technology and has been in used in Spain for decades. The issue comes more from the "low cost" approach to buy new rolling stock that is able to do everything that you could imagine but a fraction of the cost. The 40% discount has to come from somewhere.
I have travelled twice in these trains and in my case it has been a fantastic experience.
Although i totally agree with the shortcomings on this train being pretty bad, "nightmare journey" is quite an overstatement.
Not when all the banging and clattering is giving you a headache. I was glad to get off this mess of a train.
@@SuperalbsTravels still better than the rolling trashpiles called ICE in Germany
@@SuperalbsTravels compare this to CR400BF_BZ
@@SuperalbsTravelsplease id like you to read my comment
@@SuperalbsTravelsIf the train was german, french, english, etc, you would not have been so harsh.
Even after all the complaints from previous trains, Talgo still hasn’t learned at all. How, in the name of all that is holy, is that possible?
Honestly, I blame both Talgo and the Spanish Government, since the Government basically asked for a miracle in engineering on a budget
It was impossible for Talgo to be able to actually get everything done comfortably IMHO
@@1crafter176 I mean, Talgo was the one offering a 40% discount on the licitation price to bag the ordrer...
@@1crafter176 Rational
and Germany wants talgo trains for its ice service
@@meki___6881 "ICE" at 230kmh speed like the ICE T, at that speed they arent problematic and actually more confortable than standard carriages
The Spanish national railways Renfe are so fed up that they have recently made an official complaint to Talgo and demanded compensations for all the delays and cancellations that these awful trains are causing.
This goes on top of the hefty compensations that Talgo already had to pay for the extra late delivery of the trains.
This could be the end of Talgo.
Hopefully not. While not without their faults, many of their products are still extremely innovative and competitive. Would be a shame to lose such a major manufacturer.
@@wojciechmuras553 they wouldl probably know the same destiny of FIAT Ferroviara in Italy: being bought by Alstom or Siemens. With an increasing of product quality at the end.
Si piensan que Talgo va a desaparecer, estan muy equivocados. Van a tener que realizar muchos cambios estructurales en la compañía, pero lamento estropear vuestra fiesta, Talgo no va a desaparecer.
Ojalá que sea el fin!!!
Isn't part of the problem due to rail way construction.
You got the reasons wrong. Talgo trains use passive swing tilting design. Because the center of gravity is swing outwards instead of tilting into the curve like active tilting systems. There's a increased risk of derailing especially at high speed. To compensate for that, the center of gravity of the carriages needs to be as low as possible. And the carriages need to be very light, for the same reason of avoiding derailment. Low floor is just a byproduct. So is the bumpy ride, a byproduct of the lightweight construction
thanks, this is very insightful! and I suppose they need the tilt tech in order to achieve high speeds even on tracks that aren't very well made for it?
@@lb2791 I heard conflicting opinions on this. From Talgo, yes, that's the case. But from an Amtrak engineer that I talked to, who runs the Talgo sets on Cascades service, the increased derailment risk means they can't really take curves any faster. The tilt is more for comfort than speed
@@jnrfalcon With tilting technology the centre of mass doesn't change. Which means, the train can take the curves at higher speed. However, the passengers are the reason why trains without tilting systems don't take the curves as fast. You'd get thrown to the sides, which is not a pleasant experience.
Increased risk of derailing, well thats something you wanna hear when you ride a train. Fascinatingly idiotic of Talgo. For now. Let's pray it never gets to be "deathly demented"...
@@Ruhrpottpatriot it absolutely does. There are multiple articles explaining this. Especially in passive tilting, shifting center of gravity is what moves the carriages.
Those trains in Romania would be a god's send , compared with the 30 km/h, 10 hours delay moving garbage from the 80's that we have.
Don't worry Romania will be better than us soon
As someone who is interested in the rail industry, but not actively reading up on every detail, it still appears to me that Talgo is remarkably often singled out for terribly engineered trains, horrible reliability, delivery delays, massive cost overruns etc.
Why do they even still exist?!
probably because spain keeps buying their trains to keep the spanish train industry alive.
Talgo was the spanish government darling for years, and only recently it has started to mature into an international company. They are capable of much better stuff than this
@@lb2791Didn't saudi arabia also buy them?
@@zafrylaiman8695 Germany also did!
The talgos offer unique carasteristics like the tilting or speed, plus gauge changing. The Avril is so bad because of cost cutring on behalf of renfe
The funny part is that their worst is better than our best
Exactly..an english honest!
That shaking made me think these made the UK's GWR IET Hitachi (and LNER Azuma) trains look OK, if a bit slow at 125 MPH.
The FEVE is a wonderful line. Just adorable. I am really looking forward to traveling to my favourite towns on the north coast.
According to your detailes descriptions, the train doesn't look so bad at all !... Your video even makes you want to take the trip.
Sorry about the mess in Chamartín. The station aged poorly and they want it to become the central hub of Madrid. It will take a long time to finish the works, so we will have tl be patient about it
3 observations about this TR: 1> RENFE has massively upped it's game with the catering you get with premium tickets, presumably due to the competition from Iryo, but the upgrade doesn't seem to apply to breakfast unfortunately. I had dinner on a Chamartin-Murcia service about a month ago and it was unrecognizably better compared to dinner on the exact same service 1 year earlier. 2> Chamartin used to be soooo much easier to navigate than Atocha but it's a mess at the moment, also it seems like the Cercanias from Barajas terminates at Chamartin for now. Getting from the AVE to the airport is still dead easy but from the airport to the AVE - which used to be dead easy at Chamartin (much less so at Atocha) has become a bit of a nightmare involving half a dozen staircases, walking across a bus station, and being outside in the heat / cold / rain almost the whole way. 3> it is the party piece of these trains - the gauge changing tech that is largely responsible for the bad ride. Compare the S-120/S-121 (terrible ride) to the equivalent S-104 and S-114 standard gauge only sets that ride absolutely fine. Likewise the ride on the S-102 isn't great but it isn't terrible either - it is better than the Hitachi 80x crap in the UK, but the S-130 gauge changing version of the same train is bad. The same was even true on loco hauled Talgo sets - the ones used on the Mare Nostrum service from Cartagena to Montpellier rode much worse than the Iberian gauge only sets I used to ride from Madrid to Murcia/Alicante/Valencia and up/down the coast to Barcelona.
the fixed gauge version aint that bad, I tried it on an avlo low cost service and for that is more than ok. if you want high capacity you must sacrifice confort, TGV M also has vibration problems apparently
Just finished a 2 week trip from Prague-Berlin-Hamburg and took trains to each thanks to your videos!
CD is not bad at all, great meals (took first class, I’m not sitting in a compartment) and very comfortable. Not as comfortable as the ICE 3 to Hamburg of which, maybe I got lucky but, it never got delayed, nor arrived late? Great coffee machine as well 😂
Those carriages you saw at the end of the video, were the ones used in the night train between Lisbon and Madrid or Hendaye, as you can see the Portuguese CP logo. What a shame they are rotting there,
It's a shame, but it won't be much longer until the high-speed line between Madrid and Lisbon is open.
I moved to Lisbon in early 2020, so I never got to know what the trenhotel was like, But when you see the main way of getting to Madrid now, It makes you wish for a direct train.
@@wojciechmuras553 It's still going to be another 10 years at best. Reasonable deadline for a large project, but still 10 years without direct trains.
@@wojciechmuras553 it's going to take at least 10 years for that! Not even close to having a project and studies done for a high speed line from Lisbon towards Madrid, much less any construction starting.
In two years we will hopefully have a much quicker trip with a more direct route with only one change instead of two and more comfortable rolling stock on the Portuguese side.
And a magazine was reporting Europe didn't have enough sleeper stock to meet demand . Assuming those have a setting for the Stephenson gauge . They'll do until coaches with deep springs and better soundproofing arrive ....
Another was Running a story about volunteers offering a donkey service across the Franco-Spanish border because cross-border services had ceased but that's another story ...
Watched this twice just to hear you saying "Avril" :)
Thank you for your videos, love your attention to detail and passion for travel!
Thank you so much! 😁
So envious you're going to Gijon! Have a great time in Asturias!
13:30 you had been scanned 😃Thanks for the Video Man...I'm looking forward to see the ICE-L in Germany using the same Coach technique...Deutsche Bahn is going to jump around!
you're the second youtuber that I've seen reviewing this train, I find it a shame about how bad it was, just because I just like how they feature them tv screens on every seat.
no, he's the fourth train vlogger who review the talgo avril train set or renfe s-106 and third vlogger to try until gijon (xixon), (simply railway, om the rails (formerly midland land) and superalbs travels), nonstop euro trip tried that until la coruña (a coruna)
@@rejeylola they wrote "that I've seen"
A noisy train is a bonus, UK train rides are nearly always spoilt by inconsiderate people watching and listening to TV programmes on their 'phones without earphones & self important people on the 'phones saying nothing very much to other people always with the never ending valediction, 'love you, love you, love you' about 6 times - at least this would mask the sound track.
I love travelling by train in Spain. I am over 60 and the prices are wonderful.
My worst train ride ever was a train ride from Vienna to Budapest run by Hungarian Railways in 2023. At Mosonmagyarovar station, my train broke down and the air con was turned off, and it was in the high 30s celsius! We were stuck for around an hour and 45 minutes in the sweltering hot weather (Which was comparable to Dubai's hot weather) and there were even people sitting on the platform edge and walking on the tracks! (Not the high speed lines) and it caused a freight train slowly coming in to blast its horn. I didn't walk on the tracks because it's dangerous. There was even a guy blasting ACDC music. But then a Railjet train picked us up an hour and 45 minutes later, we all applauded and we luckily got a seat as it wasn't very busy on that train. We got on the Railjet for free and that took us safely to Budapest. But even at Budapest, it was so crowded and we didn't know where the Metro tickets were and there were so many queues at the ticket machines. We were meant to arrive at the hotel at around 3pm, but ended up arriving at 5pm. It was disastrous.
Was that on your game console 😂
@@Oddly1970 No😆
Try 5 hours on the Eurostar stuck in Kensington Olympia with outside temperatures around 100F, inside well upwards of 120 - and no water. They'd loaded us on a unit headed for the North Pole Service Depot, simply the wrong platform, and then couldn't believe what had happened. It was only when people expecting us in Brussels raised a rucus that they got real - how nobody died I'll never understand.
Such noise is a common feature in railways of India. But even then in an AC class noise level is very low.
Shaking of coaches have come down greatly due better track maintenance & introduction of LBH coaches.
A 2h delay sounds like the DB standard
Any info on the horrible RENFE Website? It is just annoying to try and book a ticket there.
The renfe website has been a national meme in spain for decades, it's unbelievable that they still can't fix it.
Hi, person from Segovia here, the station of Segovia Guiomar also recieves high speed trains such as AVE, Avlo and Ouigo 😊
Thank you for endorsing my hometown station
As a German, I'm glad that we are apparently not the only ones that constantly screw things up in the train sector.
To be honest Germany is just messing up in terms of infrastructure and capacity. (Due mostly to underfunding). The trains themselves are mostly of good quality as well as a robust network of regional rail! Can’t say the same for France or Spain!
ICE trains are among, if not, the best imo, just the rest of the rail network that leaves a lot to be desired
@@felixpgames9639 You are right. But it's still very frustrating. My personal record for a delayed journey is 11 hours...
Can't wait for the ICE-L which will be Deutsche Bahn and Talgo combined.
I agree. Germany keeps their trains clean and I'm partial to the ICE trains
Glad you got a seat next to a window instead of a blank wall
I hope the Talgo manufactured DB ICE L will be an exception to Talgos bad ride quality.
The competition for badly designed trains is tough
Still the AnsaldoBreda's Fira is a strong candidate for such position
@@uxiorabade2968
They built some of the GW "Hitachi" trains. Pure junk.
Thank you for your honesty.
To be fair, more than a few of these issues stem from build and cost specifications set forth by Renfe, not Talgo.
I hope the worst issues with these trains (reliability) can be fixed 😢, some people said they might be software issues. They have been 3 years in testing, I don't know how they could mess up this badly. Ride quality and seat density are honestly minor issues, especially if prices are cut. Renfe can always send all of these trains to Avlo when they get more trains (right now they are sort on trains).
Oh dear. I hope the ICE L will be at least a bit better, regarding the shaky ride.
ICE L won’t be gauge changing, which historically has correlated with better ride quality on Talgo sets.
I recently discovered your channel. I've thoroughly enjoyed your videos. I hope you will post again soon.
My worst train ride was Nightjet from Salzburg to Vienna. Damn that carriage was cold. Windows were leaking air into the compartment from the seals and It was a Christmas Night so... I could not sleep all that night just freezing myself. I could not even change my place because it was full.
report it to OBB, usually theor trains are great
Is a nightjet from Salzburg to Vienna even worth it? I took that route this summer during the day and it was like 3 hours?
@@Jan.1023 We were making a multi country trip in christmas holidays and we did not want to stay at Salzburg so we used the nightjet and that was the cheapest option also.
@@Jan.1023 well, the coach section has the same price as a rail jet and has early or late arrovals
@@Jan.1023mightier good? There sleepers and clouchettes look like something out of the 1950’s eastern block. Or a school dormitory.
There is probably a reason Alstom, CRRC, Hitachi, Kawasaki, Siemens, and Stadler didn't adapt this design even thought it have many advantages on paper
Well the wheel configuration is patented so they literally cant even if they wanted to.
This wheel design also doesn't have enough space to accommodate powered bogies too I think
We had one of these shortly after introduction on a journey from Mieres (just south of Ovideo) to Palencia (where we then got on an older Talgo to demonstrate how much worse the new trains are.) One feature of older Talgos is that the seats get turned around to face the direction of travel at each terminus. But not the new Avrils. So my journey was backwards facing in the middle seat of three in standard class. As a 1.86m man I found this very cramped. The screen system was a joke: The map in theory told us how we were doing against the schedule, but it wasn't able to calculate the delay, so our 20 min late arrival was on time on the screen system! Worse, several screens were simply not working at all. And yes the ride is poor. On the older Talgos there is at least some cushioning effect as the seats are much nicer, cloth covered (not plastic fake leather) and so seem to absorb some of the bumps. It will be interesting to see what French travelllers think as these trains are due to take over the trains into France and there will be a Paris to Madrid service in due course. That's a long long trip in the middle seat of three.
Paris to Madrid in 9 hours ? That will be an ordeal in itself, so much more than the bumpy ride or cramped space...
The faster the trains are and shortest time for long distance combined, less investment in comfort train operators do, matching the standards to low cost airliners. These are just some of slowing lost caracteristics of modern railway industry in order to survive competition with oder transportation modes and Spain might be one of the best examples to that evolution race indeed. Thnk you so much for sharing very informative videos and all the best🚂
It is a train designed to run on very old Iberian gauge tracks that run through Asturias and Galicia in northern Spain. It is normal for it to move. Of course, incidents have been reported but they have nothing to do with the train moving more or less. At high speed its behaviour is very similar to other trains.
I like the German ICE trains too...they are great and I dont need a reservation with my Eurail Global pass
Really doesn’t seem bad
I am blessed by the Almighty algorithm of TH-cam to be here and see this amazing video and help me enhance my railway knowledge! Thanks, Superalbs...
Now I try to avoid any Talgo train with this video showing how uncomfortable they are... I'm glad the german ICE's newest member, the "ICE L" isn't in service so far... I'm german, now living in Austria for 2 years. The austrian long-distance trains are slower (the "Railjet" gets up to 230 km/h because it's a 7-car loco hauled train) but their comfort is great and they have an on-bord restaurant
I live in Gijón and take the train to Madrid pretty frequently, and I'd say they are a big improvement.
For one thing, RENFE has not invested in rolling stock to meet demand over the years, so they were massively overpriced in key markets. The Asturias-Madrid line was one of those. In fact, it was so far under capacity that it was common before this year to see trains completely booked out a week in advance.
The seating arrangement isn't perfect, but 2-2 in premium class is not that bad. The seats are a bit hard compared to 1st class in SNCF, but I can live with it.
A lot of the services have been taken over by AVLO, so understandable why they would want to keep capacity up and cost of ownership down.
The roughness of the ride has been a trend but I think that may be a thing with the track in Spain, since the ETR500s from Iryo are also pretty rough.
Ive been in Ave many times, rode in all 3 talgo train variants, the Talgo 350, the 280, and the Avril model. In all instances I can’t really say that the experience was uncomfortable or that I hated the experience. For the most part they are alright and I would prefer it to having to be on a bus or airplane.
As for talgo itself as a manufacturer, I can’t really say that all they produce is bad, since their wagons are used in multiple countries and they seem to be running just fine, most of the problems regarding mechanical issues are due to some railways not having proper maintenance on the axle system, it might just be a single pair but it is far more complicated than it looks. However Renfe seems to operate all it’s previous talgo trains with little issues, besides the inevitable breakdown and mechanical repairs that arise as a by product of continued service and use, which is not unique to Spanish trains.
As for the Avril, although I do agree that it is a bit noisier, I don’t think it is that much so, and in all fairness it is still quieter than airplanes or buses. Furthermore they are meant to make high speed railway travel more affordable and accessible for those travelling in Spain, so making things in a cheaper manner is a natural by product of this, such as when they put economy class on airplanes. As for their teething issues, this is mostly due to the trains being new, not just in construction but also in design, it is also the first Talgo train in which all components and power units are designed and produced by Talgo, in an attempt to be more self reliant when supplying trains. As an engineer myself and a railway enthusiast I can tell you that these are normal occurrences when handling newly designed and manufactured equipment, when the Talgo 350 first entered service it was plagued with mechanical failures and breakdowns, but these where eventually worked on and currently they are seen as some of the most reliable high speed trains in Spanidh service. For Avril it is simply a natural progression of handling new equipment, mechanical problems will arise that where either not noticeable or that apear after some time in service, and once they are found they will be fixed accordingly. Over all I see the Talgo Avril as a rather useful and welcoming addition to the Spanish railways.
Also about the complains regarding the tunnels, what did you expect, Spain is the second most mountainous country in Europe and laying track on inclines would significantly affect the performance of high speed trains and railway operations entirely, before hand tunnelling wasn’t much of an option but now a days it is, so to cut down time, make it easier on the trains and simplify service, tunnels need to be built. Yes I admit that looking at the country side and environment is very pretty, but at the end of the day it is a scheduled service that is meant to transport people from point A to point B in the shortest time possible.
Honestly, I suspect these will get an interior refresh in a few years, as I reckon what they'll be fitted with will wear and age incredibly quickly, after which they'll probably be decent enough trains. I also reckon they'll fix the issues with the suspension over time as well, but yeah, right now they're absolute pants.
There actually are two types of AVRIL: the ones than can change gauge (like this one) and the ones that can’t. The gauge-changing ones do not have what is known as “primary suspension” to make way for the gauge-changing system. This being said, the fixed-gauge ones do not have a significantly better ride quality, and all other defects stay in place (density, noise, unreliability…)
Any expert inputs and corrections are welcome.
I disagree on the ride quality of the fixed rail width trains, they are noticeable better than the variable ones.
Primary is just silent blocks like in cars, heavy rubber and metal parts. They can help to damp vibrations ... but the heavy lift is made by the secondary. Dont know if if those Talgos use air ride. Look really awsome to me. It shakes, but it is going at 300km/h ....
Excelente vídeo del tren Renfe Ave Avril S106 ( Talgo )
The Hitachi class 8xx is like a Pullman train compared to this!
Absolutely fantastic video!
The later trains, like 803, 805/807 and 810 actually aren’t/won’t be? as bad. They’re still not the absolute best, but still massive upgrades over the 800, 801 and 802.
Palencia is a major intersection and junction. Fascinating.
Not even outside the train is safe from the shaking 💀💀💀
Talked to a team of rail workers here in Denmark, they told be that it's actually very bad for maintenance with only 1 axle, as it puts them further apart, stressing the tracks a lot more
Never knew there was a new Ave, I took the old one to Santiago a few times in the past.
I found that it’s Very popular with traveler’s who like cheap above all (backpackers). Still prefer to drive
"Mimicks the Jamaican accent from the shrunken head in Harry Potter" "It's going to be a bumpy ride !"
Take em away Ernie! Its going to be a bumpy ride!"
The cabin noise somewhat reminded me of the Concorde at takeoff roll...
I used this stock (although in AVLO configuration) on the Barcelona - Madrid section for 7€. It was quite comfortable there (at least for a budget operator). Could it be that it feels smoother on this section due to fewer curves or smoother track?
In any case, i liked it better than the bobbing Velaro E on the same line.
7:50 that's a jail
We grind flat spots on the wheels for the premium tourist ticket coaches. 😅😅
Normal coaches run smooth.
Oh, these make the GWR IET look comfortable.
The shaky camera on your intro is the cherry on top
@16.57 to call the experience uncomfortable would be a colossal understatement. I can't say i blame you for the awful trip you had ST. Especially with The Talgo wheelsets lacking proper bogies and therefore much in the way of dampening. Kind of like The Pacers in The UK.
That train riding quality more like Pacer train from UK
Even back in 2016, seat integrated screens weren't modern anymore, they had been already abandoned on German's ICEs back then and no one missed them. Rumors say, that DB could get rid of their Talgo order, that is also already delayed if I know right. If not, at least the seats are better ones as they're the same as in the actual ICE4 but with more comfortable padding from the first impression at the Innotrans two years ago. But tbh too, I don't have bad memories on my Talgo night train ride 20 years ago between Augsburg and Hamburg, but these trains were sorted out shortly after.
At 14:38 I can actually feel (!) the virbations from my subwoofer.
I can't remember that ever having happened on any of your videos before. 😅
EDIT: and 15:26 is actually painful at normal listening volume.
Seriously...
My worst train ride ever was in Austria, going to a special event where the train was so overcrowded I got crushed in the vestibule to the point where I struggled to breathe. It was pretty scary.
Lol, what a nonsense. Then don't try to take the metro on a Monday early in the morning 😂
@@Ilar-en7lg Huh? Did you reply to the wrong comment? lol
@@mdhazeldine Ah yes sorry, I thought you had said Asturias.
I thought it was impossible to find a worse riding train than the etr700 (formerly frya), but here we are! At least this train has better window allignment though, on the etr700 there are very high chances your "view" is only the pillar between windows...
Can you rank all Highspeed trains, you have ever rode? From worst to best. In my opinion a Highspeed train have to accerlerate up to 250 km/h or more.
Have a great time in Asturias!
3:17 how did a frecciarossa end up in Spain?
Oh, wait is that iryo? The HST in spain, which uses frecciarossa trains? But i thougt they covered the frecciarossa branding with iryo.
Idk lol
Great video what's worse this train or the class800
Worst journey for me was being stuck on a misery (mersey) rail train in the tunnels under liverpool for hours, being unable to contact work or anyone else while dying for the toilet!
The ride quality of that train looks like it makes pacers feel like a rolls royce 😂
Yeah but the pacer cost about 10 quid to build and lasted 35 years
@@randommusic4567 a tenner? Your setting your estimates far to high, I'd say no more than a fiver for a 3 carriage version!
I do miss riding on them, went on 1 of the trains that replaced them a couple of weeks ago & it was just bland & boring.
Excelente video!!! Así da gusto, críticas fuertes pero reales, es lo que hay! No por ser Talgo un fabricante español merece que todos tengamos que sufrirlo. De hecho hace 3 o 4 años publiqué un comentario respecto de los Talgo que pusieron en el recorrido Madrid-Valencia y que me parecieron horribles, sobre todo comparados con los magníficos Siemens del trayecto Madrid-Barcelona. Mi comentario desató un vendaval de críticas de gente muy nacionalista. En fin, aprecio muchísimo el alto nivel de detalle de este video, creo que este youtuber es un ejemplo de lo que debería ser una opinión veraz, desinteresada y desprovista de ideología. Espero que publiquen muchos videos de viajes en avión! Bravo!
Acutally Madrid Charmatin is not to bad of a station ... I mean apart from all the construction and IF you manage to find the nice old hall with huge plants with some food options and lots nice seats between the green.
The hall full of plants is at Atocha station.
That new Train is shockingly bad,I’m very thankful we don’t have these disasters in the UK,cheers fella 👍
The 800 series are good competition for nastiness.
In the UK you don't have domestic high speed trains at all, I don't know what's worse...
The thing is, you guys in the UK don't have anything on this category. The HS1 is just a tiny little HS line and you're only now building the "HS2" costing 100+ billion (good luck with that). So I don't think you're in the position to compare here...
@@osasunaitor
Most journeys in the UK are too short to benefit from running at more than 160 kph. If you have to pre-book, it adds an hour to the journey time anyway.
@@Adrenaline_chaser
Journeys in the UK are too short. We just need frequent services at affordable fares without the need to book in advance. High speed rail is pointless in Britain.
A few years ago, talgo sent a train to india to showoff it's technology and perform some tests on our rail network. But nothing came of it.
We were many disappointed at that time, but now I am happy for two reasons
1. Had talgo come, we would not see vande bharat, and the subsequent development of our local industries like is happening right now.
2. The new trains that we now make, are much quieter and more comfortable than this.
Its great that india is making its own trains, i will be riding them in January
But you forgot to mention that they are also alot slower, getting better but still a long way to go
@@randommusic4567 that is true, but it is less about trains and more about tracks. When the tracks are improved, even the current trains will be able to run at much higher speeds.
Mr. Sudhanshu Mani, the chief engineer behind T18 (vande bharat) says that the train which currently has a max permissible speed of 160 kmph during operations can easily reach 200 with some small modifications, provided the infrastructure supports it.
@@kartik_sinha The Talgo were discarded in India because the tracks couldn't accommodate the higher speed so it was not worth it. These trainsets could go 200 km/h but Indian infrastructure rarely allows anything over 150 so it was a waste of money and technology. The Vande Bharat has a max speed of 160 km/h for this reason, it's not even considered a high-speed train by international standards. Also, due to the high population density of India, the Talgo didn't have enough capacity. It had a 2+2 seating layout while the VB has a 3+2 with narrower seats.
@@osasunaitor the major reason was cost, followed by the shorter height of the talgo trains. VB trains have both 2+2 and 3+2 seating and accommodate more people per car. Max speed of VB is 180 km/h whereas max operating speed is 160 km/h and VB has really wide seats compared to talgo , having travelled in both , i can assure you of that!.
How much worse is the Talgo AVRIL compared to the Talgo 350 (S-102/112)?
And it doesn't look that good, mainly the powerheads.
Probably everyone here already knows, but HS trains in France, Germany, and Italy (my experience) are impressively smooth and quiet at 300km/hr.
Sure... 🤣🤣
Does the most impressive rolling gauge change in this high speed train therefore mean that there are two types of HS line in Spain?
You say that it's a new line, so my initial thought that it's to fit in with original track err doesn't fit, so what's the reason and is it designed to be able to go even faster on the broader gauge?
I can speak from personal experience that shaking is also a regular occurrence on the Amtrak Northeast corridor trains
Acelas or Amfleets?
@@johannessamuelsson6578 both
I always have one thought when watching these review videos "Remember that you are only on the train to review it, otherwise you do not need to get on that train, imagine what it is like for people who MUST get that train to work and so on..." When you think of it from this point of view, these trains get even worse.
Exactly. Once this journey is over, I never have to ride this again. But the local people do, time and time again... 😳
I suggest that you check out the class 805 operated by Avanti West Coast I have heard some good things about the class 805 and I plan to go on the 805 myself and I will let you know if it is any good
Would noise cancelling headphones have improved your experience?
Hard seats seem to be a feature of new trains everywhere. Never really been unhappy with the older Talgo AVE trains I've been on (not that many run on the Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona route which I usually take), although the ride quality on the Siemens built trains is much better. At least the tickets are usually reasonably priced.
Although I definitely wouldn't really like 2+3 seating on an intercity journey.
As I see it, only France has succeeded in producing high-speed trains in Europe
When in Spain I use the media distancia service - cheap, reliable, up to 160 Km/h and I do not remember any issues with chassis or suspension :) //
Too bad it has almost no frequencies outside the main cities and trains are often 50 years old in derelict conditions
@@osasunaitorpuré enviar,if you compare with english trains for example..with rotten tracks from the 60,s..and rusty slow trains
@@emiliorodenasgonzalez8568 puré enviar?
@@osasunaitorThere is not a single train in Spain that is 50 years old.
@@Ilar-en7lg the Series 470 regional trains were built in 1974-75 (back then known as Series 440). So yes, they are exactly 50 years old, and they are still commonplace in many regions.
One reason not to take the plane is the lack of security screening on trains, so this one is not an option
4:15 Articulated bogie is a big sign that either it's a fail or an expensive trial.
Look at the failed examples like JR East Series E331 (which was notorious for grounded in the depot in most of its lifetime), or Odakyu VSE Romancecar (which was forced to retire at a relatively young history of 18 years due to rising maintenance costs)...
Jacobs bogies are used heavily all over Europe without any problems. From regional trains like FLIRT to high-speed trains like TGV to commuter trains like many S-Bahns in Germany. As a matter of fact, they are even often preferred to traditional configurations
My worst train trip i should say was last saturday, i got stuck in Liege-Guillemins for 6 hours on my return trip from Maastricht (Netherlands) train traffic was interrupted because the signaling system broke, we got to Bressoux (a suburb of Liege) and we didn't move for almost an hour, had to leave the train and take a Bus to Liege-Guillemins and everything was chaos no trains coming in and out people were getting angry, they got only one Bus to Brussels which was stormed by people trying to get in, i didn't made it. Got a train at 23:28 and arrived in Ghent at 01:00 AM and only had a last bus at 02:00 am to my home city has there were no more trains arrived home at 03:00 am. 🤬🤬
Even more than GWR iet?
What was the nightmare?
haha good video! 😀
Personal entertainment screens on trains is the most useless feature ever. I have seen screens on some trains in Italy and China and can't remember seeing anyone ever using them.
I can't believe DB partnered with them to make the ICE L. Especially since they have such amazing train manufacturing companies within Germany.
The ICEs are all Siemens trains. Sure, their manufacturing plants are all over Europe, but the main one is in the Munich area... I love the Siemens Velaro trains, especialy the ICE 3
@@Brauiz90 not the new ICE L have a Google
Excuse me.
I asked for a bottled milkshake and you've given me a pint of milk.
Just give it half an hour Sir.
people crying and complaining about new fancy trains that actually work as intended. "OH LOOK AT MY WATER MOVING, SO BUMPY, SEATS ARE SO HARD, IM GLAD IT DIDNT BREAK DOWN" jesus effing christ first world problems,
They don't work as intended. If you knew the first thing about the topic, then you'd already know that.
I assume you took this trip with Nonstop Eurotrip … but how do you decide who gets the window seat? 😂
but nonstop eurotrip tried until la coruña (a coruna)
I've heard the gauge changing design of the Avril is making the ride quality even worse than they wouldve been. I have some higher hopes for the Deutsche Bahn ICE-L's and DSB EC carriages of the 230 design, which is lower speed and incapable of gauge changing. However both are quite delayed now, with the EC carriages supposed to enter service in the summer to fall of 2023 and now being postponed to the summer of 2025. And I assume similar troubles down at Deutsche Bahn.
Also I find it quite peculiar that even though this train spends a lot of time at 300km/h, it's average speed is just 132km/h. Once the rail upgrades in Denmark on the Copenhagen to Aarhus line are in place, trains here will surpass it with an average speed of 143km/h despite only maxxing out at 200, and having several sections of 160km/h trackage. And 133km/h for the whole trip to Aalborg.