Hi Clint. Watching your journey closely. I think I will be following down the Delos 2.0 / Nahoa / De Villiers path. Currently have a 47 foot monohull. All the best Mike
Hey Michael - thanks so much for the comment and support. How thing have changed since this video... not to sure if you've spotted my latest video buy I am going with one of David's designs now. Should be visiting some shipyards next month and will keep the content coming as I progress on my journey. Thanks again for the support. Clint
Nice video and good luck with your adventures! You said you are a data driven guy, so I thought you might find interesting that the ARC data you referenced is complete garbage. My friend was crew on one of those "slow production" boats that finished so well compared the perfomance boats blatantly lied about the amount of engine hours he used to finish so well. They motored every single day even when under sail in order to finish respectably. Keep in mind all the data is self reported and it is a downwind sail with zero upwind component to it, there is a reason you cannot find any real credible data from production boats that have entered any sort of race where engine hours are not allowed or strictly monitored and also has an upwind segment to it...production cats, even long ones do not bother because this whole arguement gets blown out of the water. If you do not mind motoring 50% more of the time than who cares, it's more about the journey as you say. It does not sound like you've actually had the opportunity to sail any of these boats though? The reason people purchase "performance" boats has little to nothing to do with going fast, it has everything to do with the ability to be sailing and not motoring in light winds. It's all about light wind perfomance and the autonomy that gives you to not have to have range anxiety because you burn 4X the amount of fuel. Zatara stated in their video they spent $19,000 on fuel this past year, the average lightweight performance boat spends $2K-$3K a year because they are sailing not motoring. If you've done some serious blue water miles you'd understand just how amazing that is not to have the hum of the engines for days on end (which even performance cats will need to do from time to time)....but when you sail around the world the average conditions will be 10-12 knots of true wind. The performance boat will be sailing at 6.5 knots in pure silence, while the heavy production boat will be smelling diesel fumes and the drone of the engines. Nick from O'Kelly's is a great dude as well, but keep in mind the reason they are not in a performance catamaran is because their budget does not allow for it, not because they've had a change of heart. We've spent equal amount of time of slow cats and fast cats, and I loved every minute of both, so just get out there and start having fun because the sunset is the same and the people are awesome! (I just hate a guy who's data driven be given unfactual information...trust by verify my friend)
Hey @kirkb3473 - thanks SO much for your comment and detailed response. It does not shock me, although it's disappointing that folks ego's get in the way, that the ARC data is skewed due to people running engines a lot of the time. You make such valid and on point comments all of which have been running around in this busy brain of mine for some time 🤦♂️ You right, I've only sailed the monohull that I've owned but as we edge closer to the end of this year I have a few charters lined up to get a taste/feel. Another point I agree with 100000 % is that the point is being out there rather than not and I look forward to sharing a sunset somewhere one day. Thanks again for you detailed insight and the support 🙏 Clint
@@sailing.destiny Hi Clint, I'm a fan of all these types of boats and went through the same decision matrix myself a few years ago and the amount of misinformation out there is staggering. The O'Kelly's have been predicting a market crash for over 2 years now instead of being out there sailing. A broken clock is right twice a day, so don't waste a bunch of time listening to "experts" if the right boat comes along jump on it. Keith and his partner can tell you not to get a performance cat, but yet he's installing 110hp engines in his boat for a reason, because he motors all the time. So much marginal advice out there, but also lots of good stuff, so you really need to absorb it and then see if it passes the sniff test. Brent from Impi is an awesome source as well...and yes heavy production cats can be great, but don't forget the fact that he purchased his Lagoon 440 and quickly realized it was nowhere close to being a bluewater catamaran then spent 2 years rebuilding here to tab and glass all the bulkheads. If you've got 2 years and the skills to do that by all means buy a heavy inexpensive charter cat, but you get what you pay for. I've seen about 10-11 Sunreef cats around the world during our sailing adventures and not 1 time have I ever seen one with the sails up, they just flat out cannot sail, so if you go that route, just get a power cat, don't bother with the sails. There is no right answer, but with a $1.5M budget and being short handed the majority of the time, you don't want a huge boat with a lot of waterline that is impossible to dock if there is any sort of breeze and the boom is 12' above the coachroof. Get some real offshore experience, sail a boat up wind, surprisingly it's much more often than the "experts" say, you'll find your opinion will evolve. There is a reason you are not finding people selling their Outremer/Balance/HH to get a comfy Sunreef/Lagoon/FP/Leopard. Good luck!
@@kirkb3473 thanks again for the detailed and insightful information... always magic to gleam information from those who are living the life that you want to lead. If you don't mind sharing what Make/Model did you end up going for considering you were at a similar decision point as I am a few years back. Thanks again for taking the time to comment in such depth and for sharing your knowledge and insight 🙏
@@sailing.destinyHi Clint, happy to share and help as much as possible as I understand how tricky the process is, it will be your home you are trusting you and your family’s life to! So we literally took years to make the decision (because we had the time partially and also wanted to gain experience along the way). We attended every major boat show around the world, some multiple times, visited 4 factories to see how manufacturers build the boats (I’m an engineer also with a background in manufacturing and materials), stepped foot aboard and sailed all the boats we considered…and the funny thing is our opinion on the “dream boat” evolved from Cat to Mono back to Cat, as well as from comfort to performance to comfort then to comfort & performance. After all of that, 12 bare boat charters, 6-7 months of living aboard various boats we narrowed the choices down to the HH55, Balance 526Mk2, and the Outremer 55. The Balance 526Mk2 was just the clear winner in my personal opinion on every level (albeit the HH55 was a close second, and got knocked down since it’s built in China and South Africa is an amazing country to experience and the people are awesome…China I’ve already spent as much time there as I need to while I was working lol). So admittedly it’s not cheap, so I suppose I cheated in the “pick 2 of the 3” aspect because I sacrificed spending the money for a proper sailboat built to the highest standard with the best materials. There’s a reason that you see all these TH-cam channels who are building new aluminum catamarans mention the 526 as their benchmark, it’s because it ticks all the boxes. It’s a boat built by sailors for sailors, that also has the luxury your significant other will love, all the payload capacity you need plus some, and is safe and fast. One thing I’ll add that non of these “performance cat vs comfortable cats” guys will ever mention in their videos is that comfy cats have to have twice the sail area up to achieve reasonable passage speeds and they will need to do that overnight as well. The 526 can be on its 2nd reef with a staysail and be sailing the same speed as a Lagoon 52 with a full main and overlapping Genoa out. So which boat is safer when a squall pops up? Of course the 526 is already good to go where as there is going to be some drama on the heavy boat that has a massive amount of cloth up just so it can stay moving. Again, you need to make the decision for yourself and the best way is to crew on different cats and sail them for yourself. I just sense you’ve been feed some manipulative data without understanding the counterpoints clearly. I’m not sure of your budget, but I’d seriously be considering a used performance oriented cat like a Outremer 51 or something equivalent. It’s the ideal size for a cruising couple IMO, if the budget is a bit higher there are plenty of great options out there as well. Again best of luck and hope to share an anchorage out there one day! Cheers!
Thanks so much again and thanks for sharing the boat of choice that you went for. I'm from South Africa, Cape Town, and used to fly up to Jeffreys Bay often when the swell was up to surf Supertubes mid week with no crowds and I know the Balance 526 is built just around the corner from that. You have for SURE got the neurons firing this side.. was watching Cat Greatcircle video yesterday (Outremer 55 ) and they were sailing at 8knts where a Bali was motoring which was one of your previous points you mentioned.... got me thinking to the monohull I had and my kids always used to moan at me for not wanting the run the engine and going to slowly 🤣 Watch this space as they'll be a follow up video as things progress this side. Thanks once again for you support and intel 🙏 ... really look forward to sharing that anchorage one day Cheers Clint
Hi Clint, nice meeting and chatting with you today at the Delos flip - enjoyed your informative video. Take care.
So magic to meet you today at the Delos flip. Was great chatting and will head down those rabbit holes you mentioned in the next few days 😊🕵️
Hi Clint. Watching your journey closely. I think I will be following down the Delos 2.0 / Nahoa / De Villiers path. Currently have a 47 foot monohull. All the best Mike
Hey Michael - thanks so much for the comment and support. How thing have changed since this video... not to sure if you've spotted my latest video buy I am going with one of David's designs now. Should be visiting some shipyards next month and will keep the content coming as I progress on my journey. Thanks again for the support. Clint
Nice video and good luck with your adventures! You said you are a data driven guy, so I thought you might find interesting that the ARC data you referenced is complete garbage. My friend was crew on one of those "slow production" boats that finished so well compared the perfomance boats blatantly lied about the amount of engine hours he used to finish so well. They motored every single day even when under sail in order to finish respectably. Keep in mind all the data is self reported and it is a downwind sail with zero upwind component to it, there is a reason you cannot find any real credible data from production boats that have entered any sort of race where engine hours are not allowed or strictly monitored and also has an upwind segment to it...production cats, even long ones do not bother because this whole arguement gets blown out of the water. If you do not mind motoring 50% more of the time than who cares, it's more about the journey as you say.
It does not sound like you've actually had the opportunity to sail any of these boats though? The reason people purchase "performance" boats has little to nothing to do with going fast, it has everything to do with the ability to be sailing and not motoring in light winds. It's all about light wind perfomance and the autonomy that gives you to not have to have range anxiety because you burn 4X the amount of fuel. Zatara stated in their video they spent $19,000 on fuel this past year, the average lightweight performance boat spends $2K-$3K a year because they are sailing not motoring. If you've done some serious blue water miles you'd understand just how amazing that is not to have the hum of the engines for days on end (which even performance cats will need to do from time to time)....but when you sail around the world the average conditions will be 10-12 knots of true wind. The performance boat will be sailing at 6.5 knots in pure silence, while the heavy production boat will be smelling diesel fumes and the drone of the engines. Nick from O'Kelly's is a great dude as well, but keep in mind the reason they are not in a performance catamaran is because their budget does not allow for it, not because they've had a change of heart.
We've spent equal amount of time of slow cats and fast cats, and I loved every minute of both, so just get out there and start having fun because the sunset is the same and the people are awesome! (I just hate a guy who's data driven be given unfactual information...trust by verify my friend)
Hey @kirkb3473 - thanks SO much for your comment and detailed response. It does not shock me, although it's disappointing that folks ego's get in the way, that the ARC data is skewed due to people running engines a lot of the time.
You make such valid and on point comments all of which have been running around in this busy brain of mine for some time 🤦♂️
You right, I've only sailed the monohull that I've owned but as we edge closer to the end of this year I have a few charters lined up to get a taste/feel.
Another point I agree with 100000 % is that the point is being out there rather than not and I look forward to sharing a sunset somewhere one day.
Thanks again for you detailed insight and the support 🙏
Clint
@@sailing.destiny Hi Clint, I'm a fan of all these types of boats and went through the same decision matrix myself a few years ago and the amount of misinformation out there is staggering. The O'Kelly's have been predicting a market crash for over 2 years now instead of being out there sailing. A broken clock is right twice a day, so don't waste a bunch of time listening to "experts" if the right boat comes along jump on it.
Keith and his partner can tell you not to get a performance cat, but yet he's installing 110hp engines in his boat for a reason, because he motors all the time. So much marginal advice out there, but also lots of good stuff, so you really need to absorb it and then see if it passes the sniff test. Brent from Impi is an awesome source as well...and yes heavy production cats can be great, but don't forget the fact that he purchased his Lagoon 440 and quickly realized it was nowhere close to being a bluewater catamaran then spent 2 years rebuilding here to tab and glass all the bulkheads. If you've got 2 years and the skills to do that by all means buy a heavy inexpensive charter cat, but you get what you pay for. I've seen about 10-11 Sunreef cats around the world during our sailing adventures and not 1 time have I ever seen one with the sails up, they just flat out cannot sail, so if you go that route, just get a power cat, don't bother with the sails.
There is no right answer, but with a $1.5M budget and being short handed the majority of the time, you don't want a huge boat with a lot of waterline that is impossible to dock if there is any sort of breeze and the boom is 12' above the coachroof. Get some real offshore experience, sail a boat up wind, surprisingly it's much more often than the "experts" say, you'll find your opinion will evolve. There is a reason you are not finding people selling their Outremer/Balance/HH to get a comfy Sunreef/Lagoon/FP/Leopard.
Good luck!
@@kirkb3473 thanks again for the detailed and insightful information... always magic to gleam information from those who are living the life that you want to lead. If you don't mind sharing what Make/Model did you end up going for considering you were at a similar decision point as I am a few years back.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment in such depth and for sharing your knowledge and insight 🙏
@@sailing.destinyHi Clint, happy to share and help as much as possible as I understand how tricky the process is, it will be your home you are trusting you and your family’s life to!
So we literally took years to make the decision (because we had the time partially and also wanted to gain experience along the way). We attended every major boat show around the world, some multiple times, visited 4 factories to see how manufacturers build the boats (I’m an engineer also with a background in manufacturing and materials), stepped foot aboard and sailed all the boats we considered…and the funny thing is our opinion on the “dream boat” evolved from Cat to Mono back to Cat, as well as from comfort to performance to comfort then to comfort & performance.
After all of that, 12 bare boat charters, 6-7 months of living aboard various boats we narrowed the choices down to the HH55, Balance 526Mk2, and the Outremer 55. The Balance 526Mk2 was just the clear winner in my personal opinion on every level (albeit the HH55 was a close second, and got knocked down since it’s built in China and South Africa is an amazing country to experience and the people are awesome…China I’ve already spent as much time there as I need to while I was working lol).
So admittedly it’s not cheap, so I suppose I cheated in the “pick 2 of the 3” aspect because I sacrificed spending the money for a proper sailboat built to the highest standard with the best materials. There’s a reason that you see all these TH-cam channels who are building new aluminum catamarans mention the 526 as their benchmark, it’s because it ticks all the boxes. It’s a boat built by sailors for sailors, that also has the luxury your significant other will love, all the payload capacity you need plus some, and is safe and fast. One thing I’ll add that non of these “performance cat vs comfortable cats” guys will ever mention in their videos is that comfy cats have to have twice the sail area up to achieve reasonable passage speeds and they will need to do that overnight as well. The 526 can be on its 2nd reef with a staysail and be sailing the same speed as a Lagoon 52 with a full main and overlapping Genoa out. So which boat is safer when a squall pops up? Of course the 526 is already good to go where as there is going to be some drama on the heavy boat that has a massive amount of cloth up just so it can stay moving.
Again, you need to make the decision for yourself and the best way is to crew on different cats and sail them for yourself. I just sense you’ve been feed some manipulative data without understanding the counterpoints clearly. I’m not sure of your budget, but I’d seriously be considering a used performance oriented cat like a Outremer 51 or something equivalent. It’s the ideal size for a cruising couple IMO, if the budget is a bit higher there are plenty of great options out there as well.
Again best of luck and hope to share an anchorage out there one day! Cheers!
Thanks so much again and thanks for sharing the boat of choice that you went for. I'm from South Africa, Cape Town, and used to fly up to Jeffreys Bay often when the swell was up to surf Supertubes mid week with no crowds and I know the Balance 526 is built just around the corner from that.
You have for SURE got the neurons firing this side.. was watching Cat Greatcircle video yesterday (Outremer 55 ) and they were sailing at 8knts where a Bali was motoring which was one of your previous points you mentioned.... got me thinking to the monohull I had and my kids always used to moan at me for not wanting the run the engine and going to slowly 🤣
Watch this space as they'll be a follow up video as things progress this side.
Thanks once again for you support and intel 🙏 ... really look forward to sharing that anchorage one day
Cheers
Clint