Metroid Prime and First Game Syndrome
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- 0:00 - Introduction
5:04 - Controls
8:58 - Tallon IV
18:47 - Presentation/Loading
20:47 - Presentation/Environments
22:58 - Presentation/Samus
24:13 - Presentation/Cutscenes
27:53 - Sound Effects
29:03 - Music
36:18 - Story/Scan Visor
59:03 - Scan Visor Problems
1:06:46 - Immersion
1:16:19 - World Design
1:26:38 - Progression
1:29:21 - Sequence Breaking
1:34:43 - Navigation
1:40:03 - Map
1:42:16 - Artifact Hunt
1:46:40 - Combat
2:02:13 - Bosses
2:13:43 - Difficulty
2:14:40 - Level Design
2:21:13 - 100 Percent Items
2:25:56 - 100 Percent Scans
2:27:45 - Speedrun/Replay Value
2:31:31 - Conclusion
KIWI TALKZ Interview - • #144 - Jack Mathews In... - เกม
I don't understand how you can consistently win the thumbnail game with such flying colors.
Most of my thumbnails are drawn by my friends. I come up with the ideas and tell them what to draw and they work hard to make these excellent pieces.
@@FlatulentFetus It's a wonderful collaboration.
The charged plasma beam does not have infinite range - it just has longer range.
No lie in prime 1, pirates do be eating pretty good.
I love this game (though I prefer Prime 2), I just think there are one or two things the Remaster could have done to make it a bit better, like giving us the ability to skip all cutscenes, especially the ones that play multiple times in boss fights like Flaahgra.
Metroid Prime 1 lets go, Prime 2 next please!
Dude, thank you SO MUCH for the lengthy analysis of the Metroid series. I'm absolutely loving it and can't wait for your Echoes analysis!
I’m so happy you included the randomizer. Metroid Prime feels like a playground to me. I only know a few sequence breaks, like a couple L-jump tricks and one or two morph ball double jumps over things, so I mainly play glitchless with combat and knowledge at beginner, with doors randomized and two-way elevators changed. It’s so fun to take an evening off and spend a few hours resolving my personal Rubik’s cube.
Atmosphere, aesthetic, capturing the “Metroid feel”, transitioning into a first person game that is still metroidvania so spectacularly, the soundtrack, the scan system. All of that is perfect in my opinion. I haven’t watched the video, but before watching, my main complaint is lack of difficulty. This is why I enjoy Dread so much (among a trillion other reasons). It’s gonna be interesting to see your criticism. Great Metroid videos my friend. I also want to add that your video on Fusion gave life to the game again for me. I plan on replaying it. It was my first Metroid game.
Prime 1 was the first metorid game i played. When i bought a GameCube from a retro store in Demeber 2020. They bought out a stack of GCN games. I had no idea which game to pick. I saw Metorid Prime 1, i heard good things about metorid online, I like the part of Sub Space with Samus & Pikachu, and it was only $30. I brought it home and started playing it. Took me about 3 months to get use to the controls. After that i was hooked on the game. Took me a good 18 hours to finish with 60%. I think it was the first game i had no previous knowledge of that I beat on my own with no guides. Just pure exploration and puzzle solving.
I loved it so much. After that, I've played pretty much every metroid game. I just need to finish up Prime Hunters, Metroid II, and i guess other M. I couldn't believe it took me so long to try out a metorid game. Now i try to convince my friends to play metorid too. I also couldn't believe it took Nintendo so long to get Prime 1 on Switch. Then, when i played Echoes, i was constantly going, "Why the hell is this not on Switch??". Prime 1 still holds up today and is still being emulated in modern games today. It definitely deserves its praise and needs to be on every gamers list
Funny, but I think the fundamental elements of Prime's design, less the Artifact Quest, one back-tracking segment, one false hint, and unlocking colored doors constantly, still work incredibly well in 2024. Still my fave game of all time.
I think Prime 1 is still a great game even in 2024, I just also think it’s plenty flawed as well.
My first Metroid experience. Excited to watch this one
You can read the logs from prime 3 describing the tallon 4 event, how the planet is starting to recover from the effects of phazon
NGL: I played Echoes wayyyy more than Prime 1. This makes me want to experience Prime 1 again - I barely remember it.
I got banned from a discord server because I said I thought Metroid prime was just ok💀
I hope it wasn't the AM2R server. We generally encourage alternate perspectives there at least back when I moderated it
Never forget that Tallon IV Chozo were hippies.
WAIT, YOU CAN DO THE WAVEBUSTER "PUZZLE" WITH NORMAL MISSILES?! I thought you needed to use Super Missiles to collapse the pillars!
Same with that one Artifact in Magmoor in the stone pillar. Oddly enough, that one pillar takes 4 missiles on Hard Mode but only 2 on Normal. Some oddity likely resulting from the fact that enemies have more health, almost like that destructible pillar has a life bar.
FYI, in Prime 3, it is shown that destroying a Leviathan seed destroys the phazon created by it, as it’s almost like a hivemind. Though like you said it isn’t explained until that game anyways.
If I remember correctly, it also contradicts that by saying that Phazon remained on Aether after the destruction of that planet’s leviathan on Dark Aether. I think it was some Pirate Log describing how Dark Samus re-materialized inside of leftover Phazon on Aether.
@@FlatulentFetus maybe it takes longer to decay when just a single Leviathan seed dies, as opposed to Phaaze itself. I’d have to read that log though
@@t0xicrunnerlet's be real. The whole phazon dies with its leviathan gimmick was really only a thing because the devs needed Prime 3 to end neatly. It wasn't really a thing until the very end
Just finished this game for the first time yesterday. Great timing
Definitely agree with the backtracking part. I wanted to get all the items but I somehow missed 2 missiles and couldn't find them after running through the whole map with a guide open
Now this is a take I can 100% get behind. The whole plasma and x-ray room thing is so bad I made a mental note to remember this while replaying next time.
Phendrana Battle sounds like a track from Ratchet & Clank 1, 2 or 3. Not a bad thing, but it's UNCANNY.
R&C gameplay just floods my brain when I hear it.
Ah man my last playthrough on prime I turned the music off too man, that's wild, convergent evolution or somethin' man... 🤙
Can't wait for a video on Corruption. I only beat the first Prime recently, and it's good to see your take on this game
This Metroid has the best soundtrack! (With N64 New Teris as a close 2nd)
The New Tetris is my mom’s favorite video game because she loved making those huge solid blocks and she’s really good at it. That and Mean Bean Machine I’d always watch her play through. My favorite soundtrack goes to Donkey Kong Country 2 Diddy’s Kong Quest. I especially like Hot Head Bop and In a Snow Bound Land.
@@FlatulentFetusDonkey Kong Country 2 is one of my absolute top favorite soundtracks, although Chrono Trigger takes the cake for me. Both pushed the limits of the SNES in interesting ways.
The whole portion from 1:09:00 to 1:14:00 is well vocalized, and the points you make are things I had thought about as well. It may be a tough pill for some to swallow but it's valid to point out how the environment many times was designed to be "gamey" instead of realistic. There's nothing really wrong with that, it's just how it is.
By the end of Prime 1 Samus accomplished exactly what she set out to do in the first place -- hunt down and kill Meta Ridley. Stopping the pirates and fulfilling the chozo's prophecy by killing the source of the phazon were pretty much bonus points.
The game clearly attempts to do more with its story than just that. As discussed in the video, I think that many of the elements of the story are not cohesively concluded in a very satisfying way.
@@FlatulentFetus The sequels definitely did a better job in a fully-realized narrative arc within their own games, as well as tying up those left by the end of Prime 1; I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that the ending of the first story in a trilogy is incomplete or unsatisfying because of what we would come to know in the games that followed. Yes, we eventually learn that Project Helix and the Metroid Prime survived, but there was no reason to assume those things at the time (barring the teaser foreshadowing Dark Samus.) In a vacuum the simple plot of Prime 1 concludes exactly as one could expect from the onset: the newest incarnation of Ridley dead, several pirate strongholds in flames and the ghosts of long-dead chozo given peace at last. The discovery of phazon presents a sinister new threat, but those who would exploit its power for evil have been thwarted for the time being. None of the key elements presented within the game are without their resolution except the ones left intentionally as cliff-hangers.
As for the question "What did she even accomplish?" Well, Samus couldn't save the chozo of Tallon IV, but she did realize their wish for the Entrusted One to terminate the creature implied to be largely responsible for the phazon plague. Corruption tells us in no uncertain terms that killing the leviathan core does exactly that, stops the spread and allows infected planets to begin healing, and even if we didn't know what a phazon seed was at the time, the act of destroying it was still significant. While the pirates didn't need the crater itself for their means, preventing them from breaching the seal and harnessing the phazon within, and more importantly the power of the Metroid Prime, was paramount and a heavy blow to their ongoing arms race -- if her scorched-earth campaign throughout their facilities wasn't enough of one already. In the end Samus departs from Tallon IV not having remedied the damages of phazon or Project Helix altogether, but preventing the chance for further tragedy to arise from them...or so she thought, anyway.
Edit: Damn, this reply was much longer than I intended. In any case I loved the video, and it's awesome to watch such a thoughtful, thorough analysis by someone who's as fanatical about this game as I am. Can't wait for Prime 2 🙂
I think what you’re saying is fair, but I still can’t fully agree personally. You’re exactly right about Samus fulfilling the will of the Chozo, that’s a great point. But I still don’t think the actual events of the game seem to amount to much if not for Prime 3 going back to fill in the blanks. I think accounting for Prime 3’s additions, it’s a satisfying story. I wish they set it up better so that the first game didn’t depend on the third to explain things like leviathans and the fate of Tallon IV. I wish the game had some more information about what exactly made the impact crater paramount to the success of the Space Pirates. If they included lines about the Pirates emphasizing the importance of the crater, or perhaps lines about the Pirates lamenting their failure to meet their ambitions due to the inability to access the crater, then that would have strengthened the narrative. In the logs we did get, they show interest in the crater, but they never really get specific about why other than it just seems to be a lot of Phazon and some huge creature. The dots are all there and it’s not that big of a stretch for players to connect the pieces, but I still wish Prime went further with this.
@@FlatulentFetusThat's fair, what's satisfying narratively is ultimately subjective. Personally, I think leaving the nature and origin of the phazon vague and mysterious was more interesting than if they had laid it out for the player upfront. There's a subtle bit of foreshadowing wherein the chozo speculate on the existence of a planet like Phaaze, so it seems to me like Retro had that plot point in mind from the very beginning but wanted to leave room for the player's imagination. Until that reveal Prime 1 is essentially just another "Samus finds some sus pirate activity and puts the torch to it" episode, and to me that's just fine
Oh yeah! New video! Lets gooooo
i played prime as part of the prime trilogy on the wii back around 2010. that was a while ago, but hearing your review i was impressed at how it all came back to me. i remember the game fondly, but hearing about stuff like the artifact hunt felt like rediscovering a repressed memory or something. with that in mind it was cool that you touched on the artificial padding of the game, makes more sense now!
can't wait to hear your take on corruption, i think that's my favorite
Imma just confess, i played prime 2 first and prime when the remaster came out because I had a goofy ah ah childhood. I think prime is great and all but prime 2 definitely takes what prime did and improves in most aspects. I know people like the world more but i find Aether more accessible and fun to explore because i dont need to go through magmoor every 3 seconds you know?
I feel ya, but that's like saying DS3 was better than DS1 because you can teleport everywhere. While it's a convenience, it took away something huge from the core gameplay loop where distance actually used to matter.
@@ABurntMuffin i wouldnt call traveling through magmor a good gameplay loop, prime 2 still had you going through areas for backtracking. You just had an elevator at the end
@@Aegisdex that's just a series of linear hallways. magmoor was a hub. the first "difficult" area that spread out to the others that eventually had shortcuts back to areas 1 and 2 in the end.
@ABurntMuffin I feel like comparing DS1/3 to MP1/2 is actually very reasonable. MP1 and DS1 both have better worlds, but MP2 and DS3 have better combat. Which is better is down to your preference because all of the games are bogged down with their own issues. The combat being very slow in DS1 can be an active frustration for many including myself. Enough of one that I often find myself not very interested in replaying DS1. Compared to DS3 where I have 1.5k+ hours, most of which are dedicated to invasions as I enjoy the combat so much.
I have very similar sentiments for MP1 and 2
@@zackonark2658 Right, and it's no secret that DS3 is definitely the most polished of the souls series' combat. If you wanna say DS3 is the best BECAUSE of all of that stuff, cool, solid arguments. I just don't think "you can teleport everywhere" is a positive in this kind of setting. Is teleporting to levels jarring in a tactical rts with isolated maps? Not at all. Is it a bit jarring in what is (supposed to be) an interconnected and living world? I'd argue yes.
This is my first video from your channel, and I'm very impressed with your objective analysis! Can't wait for your Prime 2 video!
If I were to offer a guess on how you'll feel about the game, it certainly seems to fix a few of the issues you had with Prime 1. Particularly with the improved combat, and environments. So my guess is your opinion is generally higher for the game
It’s my favorite game of all time. But I’m going to be doing a Zero Mission video first
Just binged a bunch of your vids this series is great
I love your work and want to thank you for reigniting my passion for the Metroid series.
What a great video dude. Your subs are definitely going to climb.
been bingeing all your metroid vids, some of the most well written essays ive seen in a while
Just getting started, mentions fond memories and an enduring deep love for the game, followed by basically "I'm going to criticize this with no punches pulled"
I can already tell this is going to be good. Anyone who deeply loves a video game, not just riding some hype train, will be the first to absolutely rip every problem it has to shreds, even if it is their undisputed favorite. That's how you can tell that they are extremely familiar with what they're talking about, and not afraid to be honest about it. It's like me with Morrowind. Or many Metroid games. These are the kinds of retrospectives I love.
Basically, this is gonna be good.
They definitely could have had Samus lose her abilities in a better way. It makes no sense that she lost them because she got booped. I wish Meta Ridley would have somehow had the capability to do it in a cutscene with some sort of charged up attack and then another cutscene at the end where Ridley tries to do it again but this time Samus takes it out before he can get the shot off. Samus learning her lesson and acting quickly would have fit her character perfectly…..unlike Other M where she’s a scared little baby for some reason.
I actually have a plan to make a 2D demake of Other M that takes that away and has a Prototype EMMI (to tie in with Dread) take away Samus’ gear. I essentially want to resolve my issues with the story myself and figured it’d be a fun project.
@@nathanmullan71 Wow dude. If you have the capability to make that, I bet it just pops off with fans. That sounds dope as hell. I’m sure Nintendo would cry about it but it’d kinda be their own fault for allowing such an abomination of a game to release in the first place. If you did a good job of it, thats the kind of game that could add some serious name recognition for you in the industry, if you wanted that sort of thing. I hope you crush it.
@paularized1 Thanks! It's just a little passion project and I'm sure will take ages to complete but I'm slowly chipping away at it. And hey if it turns out any good maybe I'll show it off one day!
@@nathanmullan71 I’ll be first in line to play it.
1:30:01 on release, there was a potential sequence break for early space jump, but was patched out for player's choice release. Sadly that what i had. But those that bought on launch could get early space jump
1:08:00 😨
Found your channel with the Fusion video an binge watched every metroid video you've made, you're inspiring and cool as fuck
the scan visor is about as optional as the xray visor. edit: (which isn't optional) The x ray is actually required for like, 4 things. One of which you can actually figure out if you see the water droplets hitting the invisible platforms. The other 3 I can think of are 2 chozo artifacts, one of which can be found simply by blasting rocks (which players were doing before getting the xray so its likely you've found it) and I swear there's a 3rd required usage of the xray visor.
The only thing that actually requires x-ray is Omega Pirate iirc. Cuz like you said, everything else can be seen and interracted with theough other means. But Omega is actually invicible when regenerating his armor unless you have x-ray.
But you do actually need scan visor to trigger/activate things throughout the game, so I can't say I agree they're about equally as optional. Sure ig they are equally optional in that you absolutely need both to complete the game, but scan is need for far more
@@zackonark2658 My argument is that the scan visor ISN'T optional. You're right that the omega pirate is the other instance I was thinking of and the actual only required usage of the x-ray visor, and nobody considers that visor optional in a playthrough, be it normal, expert, speedrun, etc.
@@ABurntMuffin oh my bad. probably misread your point
@@zackonark2658 lmao we're talking now in two different comments threads. I thought your name looked familiar xD
@@ABurntMuffin XD
how do you get these videos out so quickly?? love your stuff man! i hope this video pops off!
I started only this script over 2 years ago. I was going to start my channel with a video on Prime 1, but ended up deciding against that.
@@FlatulentFetus ahh that makes a lot of sense. Keep it up man!
You're one of the good ones. Subscribed.
Hiya. As this is my first comment on this channel, I may as well establish a point that I have a preference for refined combat systems that reward healthy analysis, and I do especially welcome close range incentive that keeps that in mind as it promotes risk assessment. That's naturally an important point for why I'm writing this comment, and I'll write at least one more for your video series, though right now, I'm wondering if you'd eventually do something involving Kid Icarus Uprising, just to show how a remaster of that game could improve its messy balancing.
With that in mind, some time ago, I think a decade, I personally looked through MP1's bosses to see how much moving close to the boss was promoted. And from what I'm reading about Adult Sheegoth because my memory about them is a joke, they apparently use attraction magnetism, which if you hit your target before you hit the cause of the attraction magnetism, that's not a problem, and yes, I'll get to that as the big reason I'm making this comment. And then there's Thardus, who I definitely remember involving a fog effect that would limit the range of your vision at a certain point, so you're easily ambushed then if you fight from too far away.
Naturally, I'm here to talk about the protective orb of the Elite Pirates and the Omega Pirate. What that orb is doing is involving attraction magnetism. I was distinctly remembering being able to damage both of them when the orb was up, to the point where I've been wanting to involve a similar concept in a game I've been wanting to make, and even your own footage (2:07:02 especially shows curving Plasma Beam shots) shows that the attraction magnetism point is the case. I feel what was going on was that you tend to strafe anticlockwise, when Elite Pirates and the Omega Pirate are using the protective orb with their left hands. That's why you would be stuck on the orb. I will say that there are indications of terrain compromising moving clockwise around those guys in the moments of footage that you used, but in that case, I have to wonder how you end up dealing with that in the first place, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could have opted to set up the ability to strafe clockwise around your target without too much issue.
Oh yeah, and did you know that Omega Pirate can EMP bomb you if you try to get cute with long range combat? Granted, that's assuming you can in the first place. Even then, that shows how storywise these guys can be a threat to galactic peace especially when they get their auxiliary support from the other Space Pirates--it's being up against Samus Aran that causes the way their gameplay design goes.
I will say that regardless, I do still recognize MP1's bosses in general to be blatantly experimentalist. I'm just making a point worth mentioning.
I’ll have to try it out myself to be completely certain, but I do know that the Omega Pirate’s orb becomes active even before the animation finishes. If you’re shooing at the Omega on, like, frame 1 of it beginning to raise the orb, your shots will consistently get absorbed. I’ve been playing this game constantly for nearly 20 years and I’m certain I’ve tried strafing both directions. Getting close to the Omega will trigger him to use his melee on him, so there’s a balance of staying close but not too close. His grenade launcher is his highest damaging attack, and as you said he only uses that attack at long range. I’ve spent hours on the Omega in particular because he is easily the hardest boss on low% hard mode runs. Despite my confidence, I still would like to continue to experiment so that I can be certain. The Wii version already lets you use Power Bombs to bypass the orb, but it’d be neat if you could also just take advantage of a sweet spot.
I think the Ice Beam, Dark Beam, and Fed Force Super Missiles are all great for reasons very similar to what you’re describing. You gotta get as close as you can without making contact with your foe to maximize your accuracy. I really like that about those weapons.
I’ve never played Kid Icarus on the 3DS, but I’ve been meaning to. I played a good amount of the Game Boy one as a kid, and a friend gave me their 3DS copy a few years ago.
@@FlatulentFetus I decided to look at videos of Omega Pirate on a Low Percent Run. I do note that jump strafing is made use of in both directions to be able to get the weak points between Samus and the attraction orb. So yeah, the attraction does have limitations.
As for the Ice Beam and Echoes' Dark Beam (I wouldn't know about Federation Force's Super Missiles having not played that game), yeah, they are involving low shot velocity to demand distance closure, as lower shot velocity is innately amplified by distance. The funny thing, they can still hit at higher ranges, just that evasive maneuvers will absolutely complicate things but a few tricks here and there can allow for overcoming that. I've made use of dropping lock-on in Battalion Wars, which itself has lock-on like the Metroid Prime series has, to have manual aiming capability for some usefulness here and there against the potential evasion. Kid Icarus Uprising even gives Clubs' Shots low velocity to have their projectile usage involve trapping utility more actively.
Speaking of Kid Icarus Uprising, I brought it up in general because I did note that you are able to talk about different types of skills when providing your analysis about things like level design, and I'd be interested in seeing that sort of analysis applied to Kid Icarus Uprising's single player level and enemy design. As you haven't played it, I'll tell you that I've been determining that 6.0 is the most fair challenging difficulty level, reasonably possible to complete without Powers or modifiers as I recorded with 3 weapon types thus far (First Blade, Skyscraper Club, and Paw Pad Orbitars), while having challenge that avoids too many blatantly asinine things beyond tongue-in-cheek stuff for the nostalgia angle. Higher difficulties involve blatantly inflated enemy durability, the same problem with Metroid Prime's own hard difficulty by inviting the bajeezus out of flowchart behavior, on top of other things that...yeah, long story short, only bother with higher difficulties than 6.0 when using weapon modifiers or you'll be in for a miserable experience. At any rate, I'd be happy to answer Qs if you get around to KIU, especially if it means I get to understand better what sort of skills it likes to test.
4:10 I appreciate the more critical analysis
I enjoy watching your videos. I agree with very little in any of them, but I love them. After all, there is a difference between someone stating observations like yourself and an actual bad actor. So yeah, don't worry about being seen as "negative". Nothing you say is out of hand or even remotely close to malicious in my eyes. Everything you say is the truth as you see it; that's as objective as any reviewer could ever hope to be, so keep up the good work.
My theory on the metroid prime is that it isn't a traditional metroid. Since metroid is a chozo word for hunter or ultimate hunter, the prime could be a different creature that got the name from the chozo
1:44:12 Sonic Boom fire and ice is a good game though. It Definitely could’ve done more with its fire and ice concept but for what it is, it is a genuinely fun game and people don’t really give it the credit It deserves because it’s a boom game. I’m not saying the game is a masterpiece or anything but it’s a good game
I just got the 2 Sonic Boom games on 3DS so they were on my mind. I only put that game there as a little gag just because it’s known for having mechanics of ice melting fire. I’ve never actually played it myself but I’m a huge Sonic fan. I’ve never gotten around to playing any of the Boom games but I do want to at some point. I’ve heard Fire and Ice is actually pretty good so I’m interested to try it out. I actually really like the Boom redesigns as their own take on the Sonic cast.
As a weird little Sonic related aside, I’ve been playing Sonic ‘06 for the first time and I’ve actually been kind of enjoying it? Maybe it’s because I have super low expectations from its reputation but it’s been surprisingly fun. Massively flawed but kinda fun game, I’d even say I enjoy it more than Forces already.
@@FlatulentFetus bro I genuinely like the boom designs more than the regular ones. It really sucks how Sega completely fucked over boom. Rise of lyric was going to be amazing and then Sega ruined it and that basically sunk the entire boom franchise. The TV show and 3DS games are good at least. Or at least they mostly are. Shattered crystal would be good, but it has one really annoying fatal flaw. It basically requires that you get Every collectible to proceed and it’s very annoying. So unless you really like getting collectibles, the best way to play the game is to play it used so you don’t have to do that shit. On the bright side Fire and Ice fixes basically every problem with shattered crystal. Fire and Ice is a very fun time. Nothing that’s gonna melt your face off with amazingness but it’s fun for what it is. My only real complaint with it is that the final boss is pretty anti-climactic. It’s not terrible, but it just feels like any other boss. Something that I find humorous is that the 3DS games are actually Canon to the TV show but the Wii U game isn’t. I haven’t played rise of lyric but I do have it and I’m gonna play it eventually. I know it’s bad but I’m pretty curious to see what it’s gonna be like
I’ll make sure to give all of them at least a try eventually. But yeah it really is tragic because I think both 06 and Rise of Lyric looked like they could have been peak Sonic if they just gave the developers the time and support they needed.
22:24 No. Those are not even remotely comparable.
The Death Star was reused in The Force Awakens etc because Disney placed a bunch of marketers and hacks in charge of their (then-newly acquired) cash cow and had no idea how to kick off a new threat beyond just lazily copying what came before it, regardless of how little sense it made within that universe or its timeline.
RetroGames at least, tries to show/explain their callbacks to Super Metroid in-universe, it isn't without rhyme or reason.
There's no "Somehow Palpatine has returned." moment of aneurysm inducing stupidity like that here; don't even try it.
Take for example the various critters from Super Metroid ending up on Tallon IV. How did they get there?
There are two big explanations, one overt, the other subtle. The obvious method: They came via the Space Pirate ships from their operation on Zebes. When Samus defeated Mother Brain on Zebes (specifically, the first time) the ships assigned there were ordered to flee to the pirate operation on Tallon IV, taking all the critters with them.
Why did the pirates have the critters on the ships? Because the Zebes operation was specifically conducting biological weapons/breeding research there; that's not even Super Metroid, it's literally the plot of the very first game.
This in turn, pivots back into explaining where Metroid Prime itself (the titular monster) comes from, and why it has all of Samus's beam weaponry.
The more subtle implication for why there are common species used between both planets is that they were both former Chozo colonies within the same star system. (recall the Planetarium display in the Phendrana Laboratory) It's entirely probable that over the long period of time the Chozo inhabited both places, some critters may have piggybacked on their ships or even have been artificially introduced to each other in a way akin to how invasive species proliferate IRL.
Of course they’re comparable. I never said anything about Palpatine returning, you’re changing my point to something completely different. My point also had nothing to do with whether or not these elements are justified in-universe, and everything to do with whether or not reusing ideas in the first place lessens a sequel’s originality.
But even aside from that, there is absolutely nothing about Prime that suggests that all of the Zebesian creatures are only on Tallon IV specifically because of the pirates. As a matter of fact, the scans specifically refer to them as natives of Tallon IV even when you scan them in their containment on Frigate Orpheon. So not only is your in-universe justification merely a theory, but it’s also outright contradicted by the source material in numerous instances.
I can’t even begin to agree with any one of your points, such as the Pirates owning an observatory somehow being evidence of the Chozo of Tallon IV and Zebes sharing fauna between planets. I think that’s very self-explanatorily and decisively false. It’s merely theoretically possible if you stretch your imagination and ignore key components of the story.
I’m glad you gave my video the time of day, but I think it’s clear that we’re nowhere near in agreement. Regardless, it’s nice to hear more unique perspectives on the content of this game.
@@FlatulentFetusForgive me impertinence, it's just that the comparison to new Disney Star Wars films a bit of an extreme example given their incredible controversy and highly divisive nature within the fandom and even broader public sphere. Like, they weren't just criticized for being derivative, but proactively derivative material to dredge up nostalgia from the past, only to promptly defecate all over it by using it sloppily, contradicting something previously established, or otherwise just making no sense.
I really don't see anything of that nature between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime.
The closest I can find is maybe the silliness of Mecha-Ridley. Though Ridley constantly inexplicably returning is something not unique to Metroid Prime (and something I've gone on record in saying they should really stop doing if they aren't going to find a way to properly address it)
I think Magmoor Cavern's theme doesn't fit well bc the Lower Norfair theme in Super Metroid was building up to Ridley's boss fight, which was something being built up to since Ceres at the beginning. Magmoor is a glorified hallway that doesn't need such a dramatic track
I think I completely agree. I don’t really care for its use anywhere outside of its original context.
This is actually a very good observation. As much as I love Magmoor Caverns' remix, I have to agree whole heartedly
I disagree about the spread of phazon being poorly handled. Radioactivity is a creeping, lingering thing. Chernobyl just looks like a forest with dilapidated, decaying ruins scattered throughout. You can't see the radiation, but the very earth is corrupted, and the water is poisoned.
As far as Chozo lore relying too heavily on the scan visor goes, how much detailed history would you glean just by walking through an Incan ruin without a text book? Looking at ancient places on the earth doesn't magically fill us with exacting knowledge of the site's history. We gather clues and can piece together snippets of ancient cultures, but we don't truly understand them unless their history was recorded for us to find later.
Enjoying the video so far, just figured I'd add to the discussion
To explain my opinion a little more, Phazon simply isn’t real-world radiation. Prime 3 especially sets expectations about Phazon and the way it envelops an environment. Prime’s scans are wildly disconnected from the environments, especially in lines like the Phazon encompassing the planet in a single night.
My big criticism of Prime is that it doesn’t leave those little pieces in the environment that you’re talking about. If that’s the kind of idea they were going for, then it’d make sense to leave some kind of actual evidence of that beyond the impact crater itself. Maybe show hazmat suits or radiation handling equipment in the Chozo Ruins. Show that the Phazon actually did have some kind of effect on the Chozo through the environments. Even an abandoned actual home would have communicated an idea that people had to leave their houses suddenly. Maybe show emergency shelters, equipment for measuring radiation, show a displaced civilization.
I know that the Chozo were already ghosts before the Leviathan struck, but that’s something that is also not in the environment. The type of story that Prime is trying to tell with its scans is difficult to communicate just through the environments, but it’s also actively contradicted by those environments. Lines about Phazon killing life by the thousands, but also showing plantlife thriving just a few rooms away from the impact crater, even showing trees growing out of the crater, I can’t help but find that contradictory. I challenge Prime’s reputation as a master-class of environmental storytelling because I think the environment fails to tell us much of any of the actual happenings with the Chozo.
@@FlatulentFetus the creatures we see in prime are the ones who are resilient enough to survive in a now hostile environment. Weaker creatures either died due to the creeping radiation, or to predation by the now much more aggressive creatures. If the entire earth were corrupted by dangerous levels of radiation, it wouldn't just become a barren wasteland devoid of all life. Again, the area surrounding Chernobyl is a forest that looks normal at a glance despite the lingering poison. Plants are incredibly resilient and would take a much greater dose of radiation to completely kill off. On top of that, the game very clearly expresses that the Chozo were quickly working to contain the spread. That's why we don't see phazon pooling on the surface while we're exploring. Had they not fought it, Talon IV would be fully corrupted by the time we arrived, but their shield proved effective at slowing the spread. It wasn't a permanent solution as we know the Phazon is still creeping out into the planet, but the degree that they managed to contain it shows just how powerful this tribe of Chozo were. They're mastery over the metaphysical allowed them to fight, even if they ultimately lost without the intervention of Samus. They're technology is so fundamentally different from the humans and the space pirates that I feel it makes sense that we wouldn't simply perceive the field they errected with mere sight. This doesn't extend to all Chozo, of course. Some tribes were obviously far more tech focused than spiritual (Ravenbeak's Mawkin for example), but the holistic blend of technology and spirit is unique to the tribe on Talon IV. I don't know, maybe I think too much about this stuff
@@Stout936 I think that’s a fine viewpoint to have, but almost none of that is really communicated through the environments or even the scans.
@@FlatulentFetus I disagree (I came to those thoughts because of what was presented in the game, after all), but that's the cool thing about art: it's up to interpretation. My thoughts would be easier to express with my actual voice rather than with my thumb in a TH-cam comment, so maybe I'm not properly expressing why I think the game presents what I said very well. Other than the barrier being beyond human vision, that was more conjecture than anything based on the spiritual nature of this tribe of Chozo
Either way, this was a very enjoyable video. looking forward to your next Metroid analysis
Bery Gud Gam
Idky you dont have more views, you have great and honest critiques
a note on Metroid Prime (the creature) - "metroid" is a Chozo word that roughly translates to "ultimate warrior". using this definition, one could argue that Samus had long since achieved the title of "metroid" even before fusion. by this same logic, the phazon leviathans may also be considered "metroids" of a kind - regardless of their genetic origins.
I do still believe it's an actual metroid though. mostly because that's cooler.
I specifically have a problem with MP3's and, subsequently, Trilogy's attempts to redefine Metroid Prime as a unique creature from Phaaze because Prime spawns Tallon Metroids. It's one of a couple examples of why I disagree with the notion that the remasters' lore was improved over the original, because it simply wasn't. The lore was made more confusing
52:15 if I were to make a guess at why I would say it shows the Chozo were able to contain it pretty well then; cut off from the leviathan there could be no more rapid production of phazon. What phazon that remains is left to grow so slowly that the rest of the plant life recovered
Echoes is better
I agree Echoes is so epic
Based
But yeah my opinions does swing but right now i like echoes better than prime 1
I greatly appreciate your willingness to look honestly and objectively at the parts of a game you love in a critical way. I felt Prime 1 was a truly great game, I could forgive most of the tediousness and poorly routed backtracking... until the artifact hunt. I absolutely hate the artifact hunt. It's poorly implemented and incredibly boring and tedious. I never played Prime 1 a second time for 20 years because that damn Artifact hunt was the only thing about the game I remembered. It completely ruined the entire game for me personally. With the remaster, I played it again and I loved most of the game again... however, that awful artifact hunt is still terrible and still ruins my opinion overall. This single aspect of the game rubbed me SO much the wrong way back on the Gamecube original that I have never played Prime 2 or 3 to this day.
What’s ur next video on?
My next one is on Zero Mission, and it will take a while to finish. I celebrated my birthday, started a new job, and went on 2 vacations since I released my last video. I’ve been very busy but I’m hoping to continue my work very soon. So far I’m working through a third draft of my Zero Mission script. It’s about 12000 words so far.
@@FlatulentFetus that’s awesome. I finally played zero mission (the last good Metroid game I haven’t played) and it was great. Side note: I’m working on producing content based on the atmosphere of video games (so no competition with your content lol). Do you have any tips at all for your process of writing scripts/footage/editing? Any advice at all would be seriously appreciated. Your videos come out great. Thank you.
I’m not sure if I have any solid advice to offer, but for me I think it’s really important to redraft over and over. I also follow the PEE acronym (Point, Evidence, Explain) to make my points.
I use the free version of Davinci Resolve and it works well for me, but I’m not experienced or informed on the best editing practices. It’s important to label your footage and educate yourself on all of the tools in the software.
I use Audacity to record my voiceovers, but I know nothing about how to make audio sound better. I just cut out every lip smack and breath I can, and I try to alternate between reading some parts faster and other parts slower.
For footage gathering, I think it’s important to keep in mind that you need to slow down and take time to gather everything you might need. Write a list of everything you need and keep all of those parts in mind as you play. Consider making separate save states, if possible, in important parts of the game so you can easily revisit those parts if you need more footage.
@@FlatulentFetus this was much more thought than I expected to get. Thank you very much for taking the time to inform🙏
I just remembered I also get bored whenever a video reads like a wikipedia article. If you spend too much time in a video simply explaining what something is, without any additional thoughts or insight, then you’re not really saying anything original or interesting to me. I try to write my scripts with the mindset that the viewer already knows the game, and I don’t feel the need to go over the obvious stuff too much.
Ive been doing my first run of the remaster and your grievances have been something very prominent for me. I don't get that same satisfying flow that I do with the 2d games, the hint system is basically carrying me since my exploration seems to almost always just be wrong and Im pretty sick of magmoor lmao. I havent even reached the chozo artifacts yet and the game feels like a mixed bag to me.
I’m a newcomer to Metroid games and I have finally got into Metroid Prime. I think the scan visor constantly breaks immersion and it makes it hard to get into the game. I would like it if you only had to use a special weapon once (wave, ice, plasma) to open a door the first time rather than to have to constantly use the correct weapon each time. One other gripe is the constant respawning of enemies and turrets, but that’s not really unique to Prime in the Metroid series. Having said all that, I can see why people love the game so much.
Well your opinion about the scan Visor is wrong. Sorry.😅 It's one of the most immersive tools for world building and it is up to the player how much they use it, aside from the very obvious terminal.
@trashaigamer7822 the scan visor is less of an issue for me now, but I found it distracting at the beginning of my playthrough and it made it hard for me to get into the game initially.
THERE ARE MAP MARKERS IN CORRUPTION????
ye. you get them in the observatory on Elysia
lol Larry Boy
1:44:13 sonic
All real Prime fans know that Prime 2 was sadly always the better game ;)
Prime 2 is my first and favorite metroid 🤣
A person of culture, i c
I played through the remaster on my friend's Switch and dropped the game during the artifact hunt. It definitely strikes me as a half-assed late addition, and it kind of ruined my playthrough. Maybe if I had bought a switch and the game myself I'd have been more inclined to power through, but I somehow made it to the area where you get all the hints earlier in the game but didn't grab all of them - I wasn't ready to follow junk IGN/GameFAQs guides on how to grab the artifacts so I just ended up dropping it.
I really don't understand this criticism of the artifact hunt. It is literally an extension of the gameplay that came before it.
Which is using your arsenal to hunt for items. Except now you got all your arsenal and are free to tackle the hunt in any order you like. Most Metroid games don't give you much time to appreciate the power of a fully upgraded suit so you'd think fans would be happy to get a ledgitimate reason to actually use all your abilities for more than two minutes for once.
you need to post more
Burping farding an shiti
@@FlatulentFetus more troid
they are 'one, and the same'. 'One of the same' is nonsense!
I think I’ve been misusing that line my entire life
@@FlatulentFetus say law V sock ray blue
While I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, I have objections to some of the criticisms in this video.
I don’t think your criticism about the seeming lack of phazon in the environment is reasonable. The game does show the effect of phazon on the planet, just not with big glowing blue patches. Considering how radioactive phazon is implied to be, the environments may be contaminated with microscopic amounts, which could easily cause the type of destruction implied by the Chozo writings. Chozo ruins is an arid environment like a desert, but it’s dying dried up trees suggest this wasn’t always the case. It probably looked like Tallon overworld once. Phendrana is a frozen wasteland, but again this probably wasn’t the case when the Chozo buildings and temples were built in the area. In real life the extinction of a species can have surprisingly drastic knock-on effects in the surrounding environment, altering the landscape and even effecting weather patterns. If phazon is radioactive it probably also produces a lot of heat which would also affect weather patterns. The ice age [another real life climate driven extinction event] was caused by the closing of the tethys seaway, so that it’s warm waters could no longer mix with the colder Atlantic. At the same time, Africa was becoming increasingly arid. It’s not implausible that something similar could happen on tallon 4 due to the effect of phazon. If the phazon arrived on a single meteorite and spread out from that point, it won’t be distributed evenly across the entire planet. So while the heat produced by the phazon would warm the planet generally, it would also create unusual currents of warm air that might push [and even concentrate] colder air into unusual areas, which might cause them to become frigid. Tallon overworld still has abundant life, but we should expect this even on a planet in the grip of a climatological disaster, especially if (as I already mentioned) the phazon is not evenly distributed over the whole planet. Some areas would be worse affected than others. Our own planet is currently undergoing a similar crisis, but there are still a few remaining scraps of forest you can go to and see abundant birds, insects, deer, etc. The forests aren’t dripping with crude oil, but that doesn't mean that climate change isn’t real. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that this game does not demonstrate the effects of phazon on the planet just because it doesn't constantly shove a bunch of glowy blue bullshit in your face, I think the developers were trying to be more subtle than that.
You also complain that the game does not explain the existence of Metroid Prime, but this simply is not true. Once you enter the impact crater you are inside the object that initially struck the planet. In there you find a save station, a missile recharge room, a set of spider ball tracks, and the same type of door that you see all over the rest of the planet. All Chozo technology. Furthermore, the scan data for metroid prime itself specifically states that it’s anatomy includes both biological and mechanical components. While the Chozo inhabiting tallon 4 are depicted as nature worshipping hippies, it’s made clear that they are only one small group within the wider Chozo civilisation, and that other Chozo didn’t share their perspective. It seems to me that the original intention was for the phazon meteor to have been a Chozo weapon of mass destruction [created based on their experiments with metroids, as hinted at in super metroid] that was either accidentally dropped on tallon 4, or perhaps tested [which would mirror the real life nuclear tests that destroyed Pikinni, the native people were displaced and mostly died of starvation] on tallon 4. This is obviously inconsistent with how Prime 3 explains the origin of metroid prime, but I believe that what I have suggested may be closer to the original intentions of the developers of the first game. It’s also worth noting that this is how Metroid has traditionally always told it’s story, not by outright telling you things, but by providing visual context clues for the player to notice and interpret. I generally find this more engaging as it presents the story as a problem for the player to solve, but still leaves it more open to interpretation. Usually multiple possible conclusions are equally plausible and open to the player to consider. For example, the wrecked ship in Super Metroid contains a number of Chozo statues, at least one of which is made of the same material as the ship itself. This tells us that the ship has a Chozo origin. You can also find two machines resembling metroids, several pulse bombu enemies contained within glass domes [also resembling metroids], and screens in the background of at least one of the rooms which display a distorted image of a metroid. This leaves two possibilities, either the Chozo created the metroids or the chozo were studying [probably attempting to reverse-engineer] the metroids. The game does not tell you any of this, you have to notice the clues and put the pieces together, and even when you’ve done this you get two plausible conclusions, either of which could be correct, but again the game won’t tell you. This gives the story a bit more mystery, which I think makes it more interesting. It requires more from the player to figure it out and gives you more to think about when you do, but there’s no compulsion for the player to engage with it or even notice it really.
You also complained about the force field over the impact crater being invisible, but there is precedent for invisible force fields in science fiction. In any Star Trek episode that uses force fields they are almost always invisible, except when a character touches them. Interestingly Metroid Prime is known to be influenced by Star Trek, the name Tallon 4 actually comes from the pilot episode of the original series, in which the Enterprise visits the fourth planet of the “Talos star group”. One of the space pirate logs mentions “decatriticale”, seemingly based on “quadrotriticale” from the episode “trouble with tribbles”.
Your criticism about the scan visor is absurd, the scan visor is absolutely not optional, and the game goes out of it’s way to teach you this during the tutorial. It’s only optional for lore, but we all know that it’s required for certain in game functions. No one is going to go off on a wild goose chase for items that don’t exist because they thought scanning was optional, because you can’t even get past the game’s second obstacle without using the scan visor. The tutorial is designed to condition the player to want to scan everything. It seems that you are blaming the game for something fans have said about the scan visor being optional, which is not fair to the game itself. This being said, I do agree that it would be better if the option existed for hints to be the same colour icon on the scan visor as everything else.
I respect your opinion but I also am nowhere near in agreement with your points. Your whole thing about the climate changing, drawing parallels to our real world, seems to kinda miss the point I was making. There’s a wild disconnect between what the scans describe and what the environments show, such as life “dying by the thousands” and phazon “encompassing the planet in a night.” We can speculate on how that may have frozen Phendrana, and how Chozo Ruins has dried out, but a part of my point was that I don’t think Prime goes nearly far enough in providing information to speculate on. The Phendrana’s environment does seem to hint that the climate was not always so cold, but there is no hint of any connection to the Phazon specifically. Any number of things could cause those happenings in this abandoned world, and Phazon is merely one of many possibilities. Chozo Ruins’ dryness similarly has no hint of being connected to Phazon, and there’s no evidence in the environment itself that it was once possibly less dry. None of the trees appear to actually be dying, for example.
I’m not saying your speculation can’t work, because I do see where you’re coming from, but my problem is that I think the game doesn’t even approach hinting any of that. It feels to me like reaching to attribute all of that to Phazon just because that’s what real-world radiation COULD do.
I gotta also disagree with your point on the Metroid Prime origin. As you bring up, your described theory is contradictory with other games in a multitude of ways. There might be Chozo tech like doors, Spider Ball tracks, and Save rooms. But all of that stuff is also found in places like the Frigate Orpheon and in areas built by the pirates like the Metroid Quarantine A, or Ore Processing. I don’t see any significance with its presence in there when the game otherwise shows that it really doesn’t care for using these set pieces in a believable and contextually cohesive way. Regardless of my opinion on that, it’s valid for you to interpret the events the way you do. But I can’t share your interest in what may have been the original intention of the developers. To me, it’s most important that Prime fits in with the larger narrative of the Subseries - including its sequels. The massive rewrite of many of the scans of the first Prime game, and the many references to other events in the series such as the events of the first game, all point towards Prime concerning itself with fitting into the larger narrative of the series. If they did want to disregard the rest of the series and go for their own thing, then it feels like there’s a lot of conflicted design in this game in that regard.
I also don’t get your point about Star Trek. Why should I have to know Star Trek just for Prime’s environmental storytelling to make sense? Nothing wrong with little nods to another franchise, but if massive plot details are being obfuscated just for the sake of making a little reference, then that sounds like misplaced priorities to me. Just because Star Trek did it, that doesn’t make it okay in Metroid. Especially since Metroid never even mentions that it’s invisible.
And to address your last point, I know that the scan visor is not optional. I make specific mention of the fact that I was challenging the reputation surrounding the scan visor in that point - not necessarily the scan visor itself. And as I go over in the video, the tutorial teaches you that a specific symbol signifies the necessity of the scan visor. The game then proceeds to obfuscate this symbol and hide required nodes in inconspicuous locations. This fundamentally changes the relationship between the player and the world, and it challenges Scan Visor’s reputation as an optional hint and lore tool.
@@FlatulentFetus “There’s a wild disconnect between what the scans describe and what the environments show, such as life “dying by the thousands” and phazon “encompassing the planet in a night.”
The issue here is that you’re reading a newer version of the lore entries. Neither of these statements exist in the original, instead the Chozo write that the great poison “Slowly began to spread across the surface of Tallon 4”
"We can speculate on how that may have frozen Phendrana, and how Chozo Ruins has dried out, but a part of my point was that I don’t think Prime goes nearly far enough in providing information to speculate on."
If you know enough about the relationship between climate and ecosystem [and I'm not some kind of expert or PHD or whatever, I just think that stuff is interesting], it does not seem to require much speculation at all. the solution seems to flow very naturally from the information that the game does provide. I'll admit that this is my perspective, and that my conclusions are speculative to a degree, but I never felt a need for the game to provide more information on this than it does.
"Chozo Ruins’ dryness similarly has no hint of being connected to Phazon, and there’s no evidence in the environment itself that it was once possibly less dry."
The fact that the plants that do exist here do not have adaptations for an arid environment [which you would be able to see visually] suggest that the environment has dried out very rapidly. If chozo ruins had always been arid the trees would have bloated looking trunks [for conserving water], the branches would be short or entirely absent, and the leaves would be small and thin. These adaptations have convergently evolved in almost all real world plants living in such conditions regardless of their phylogenetic background, so we can safely say that these same adaptations would also occur in a similar habitat on an alien world. The trees found in Chozo ruins are clearly adapted for a much wetter environment, suggesting that the area has dried out more quickly than the local plants were able to adapt.
"None of the trees appear to actually be dying"
If you scan them the game straight up tells you that they are decomposing, and that the leaves are “unnaturally dried and withered.” This is also further evidence that Chozo ruins was once less arid.
"I gotta also disagree with your point on the Metroid Prime origin. As you bring up, your described theory is contradictory with other games in a multitude of ways."
those games did not exist at the time so they are irrelevant. I'm pretty sure some of the devs have said that they weren't even thinking about sequels until after prime released and sold decently well.
"There might be Chozo tech like doors, Spider Ball tracks, and Save rooms. But all of that stuff is also found in places like the Frigate Orpheon and in areas built by the pirates like the Metroid Quarantine A, or Ore Processing."
There are two reasons for this, firstly visual clues suggest that the space pirate base in phendrana and possibly some of the phazon mines were originally chozo built structures which the pirates have appropriated and converted for their own use. we also know that zebes [a former chozo world] was a significant military base for the space pirates for an unknown period of time, so they had plenty of opportunity to steal, reverse engineer, or learn how to replicate chozo technology. Prime does state that the pirates are utterly baffled by some chozo tech, like the artefact temple lock, but they seem to have some degree of success replicating other chozo tech as indicated by the existence of wave troopers, plasma troopers, etc. These are imperfect replicas, but not outright failures, the pirates at least knew where to begin with this. this is unsurprising as we would not expect all chozo technology to have the same level of sophistication or complexity. in the real world, combustion engines are more complicated [and harder to understand] than bicycles, and supercomputers are more complicated [and harder to understand] than combustion engines, yet our society produces all three of these devices simultaneously. it's not surprising therefore that the space pirates are able to perfectly duplicate the most simple chozo machines [such as doors and electromagnetic rails], while having limited success with other tech and being utterly baffled by the most advanced artefacts.
@@FlatulentFetus “There’s a wild disconnect between what the scans describe and what the environments show, such as life “dying by the thousands” and phazon “encompassing the planet in a night.”
The issue here is that you’re reading a newer version of the lore entries. Neither of these statements exist in the original, instead the Chozo write that the great poison “Slowly began to spread across the surface of Tallon 4”
"We can speculate on how that may have frozen Phendrana, and how Chozo Ruins has dried out, but a part of my point was that I don’t think Prime goes nearly far enough in providing information to speculate on."
If you know enough about the relationship between climate and ecosystem [and I'm not some kind of expert or PHD or whatever, I just think that stuff is interesting], it does not seem to require much speculation at all. the solution seems to flow very naturally from the information that the game does provide. I'll admit that this is my perspective, and that my conclusions are speculative to a degree, but I never felt a need for the game to provide more information on this than it does.
"Chozo Ruins’ dryness similarly has no hint of being connected to Phazon, and there’s no evidence in the environment itself that it was once possibly less dry."
The fact that the plants that do exist here do not have adaptations for an arid environment [which you would be able to see visually] suggest that the environment has dried out very rapidly. If chozo ruins had always been arid the trees would have bloated looking trunks [for conserving water], the branches would be short or entirely absent, and the leaves would be small and thin. These adaptations have convergently evolved in almost all real world plants living in such conditions regardless of their phylogenetic background, so we can safely say that these same adaptations would also occur in a similar habitat on an alien world. The trees found in Chozo ruins are clearly adapted for a much wetter environment, suggesting that the area has dried out more quickly than the local plants were able to adapt.
"None of the trees appear to actually be dying"
If you scan them the game straight up tells you that they are decomposing, and that the leaves are “unnaturally dried and withered.” This is also further evidence that Chozo ruins was once less arid.
"I gotta also disagree with your point on the Metroid Prime origin. As you bring up, your described theory is contradictory with other games in a multitude of ways."
those games did not exist at the time so they are irrelevant. I'm pretty sure some of the devs have said that they weren't even thinking about sequels until after prime released and sold decently well.
"There might be Chozo tech like doors, Spider Ball tracks, and Save rooms. But all of that stuff is also found in places like the Frigate Orpheon and in areas built by the pirates like the Metroid Quarantine A, or Ore Processing."
There are two reasons for this, firstly visual clues suggest that the space pirate base in phendrana and possibly some of the phazon mines were originally chozo built structures which the pirates have appropriated and converted for their own use. we also know that zebes [a former chozo world] was a significant military base for the space pirates for an unknown period of time, so they had plenty of opportunity to steal, reverse engineer, or learn how to replicate chozo technology. Prime does state that the pirates are utterly baffled by some chozo tech, like the artefact temple lock, but they seem to have some degree of success replicating other chozo tech as indicated by the existence of wave troopers, plasma troopers, etc. These are imperfect replicas, but not outright failures, the pirates at least knew where to begin with this. this is unsurprising as we would not expect all chozo technology to have the same level of sophistication or complexity. in the real world, combustion engines are more complicated [and harder to understand] than bicycles, and supercomputers are more complicated [and harder to understand] than combustion engines, yet our society produces all three of these devices simultaneously. it's not surprising therefore that the space pirates are able to perfectly duplicate the most simple chozo machines [such as doors and electromagnetic rails], while having limited success with other tech and being utterly baffled by the most advanced artefacts.
@@FlatulentFetus “There’s a wild disconnect between what the scans describe and what the environments show, such as life “dying by the thousands” and phazon “encompassing the planet in a night.”
The issue here is that you’re reading a newer version of the lore entries. Neither of these statements exist in the original, instead the Chozo write that the great poison “Slowly began to spread across the surface of Tallon 4”
"We can speculate on how that may have frozen Phendrana, and how Chozo Ruins has dried out, but a part of my point was that I don’t think Prime goes nearly far enough in providing information to speculate on."
If you know enough about the relationship between climate and ecosystem [and I'm not some kind of expert or PHD or whatever, I just think that stuff is interesting], it does not seem to require much speculation at all. the solution seems to flow very naturally from the information that the game does provide. I'll admit that this is my perspective, and that my conclusions are speculative to a degree, but I never felt a need for the game to provide more information on this than it does.
"Chozo Ruins’ dryness similarly has no hint of being connected to Phazon, and there’s no evidence in the environment itself that it was once possibly less dry."
The fact that the plants that do exist here do not have adaptations for an arid environment [which you would be able to see visually] suggest that the environment has dried out very rapidly. If chozo ruins had always been arid the trees would have bloated looking trunks [for conserving water], the branches would be short or entirely absent, and the leaves would be small and thin. These adaptations have convergently evolved in almost all real world plants living in such conditions regardless of their phylogenetic background, so we can safely say that these same adaptations would also occur in a similar habitat on an alien world. The trees found in Chozo ruins are clearly adapted for a much wetter environment, suggesting that the area has dried out more quickly than the local plants were able to adapt.
"None of the trees appear to actually be dying"
If you scan them the game straight up tells you that they are decomposing, and that the leaves are “unnaturally dried and withered.” This is also further evidence that Chozo ruins was once less arid.
"I gotta also disagree with your point on the Metroid Prime origin. As you bring up, your described theory is contradictory with other games in a multitude of ways."
those games did not exist at the time so they are irrelevant. I'm pretty sure some of the devs have said that they weren't even thinking about sequels until after prime released and sold decently well.
"There might be Chozo tech like doors, Spider Ball tracks, and Save rooms. But all of that stuff is also found in places like the Frigate Orpheon and in areas built by the pirates like the Metroid Quarantine A, or Ore Processing."
There are two reasons for this, firstly visual clues suggest that the space pirate base in phendrana and possibly some of the phazon mines were originally chozo built structures which the pirates have appropriated and converted for their own use. we also know that zebes [a former chozo world] was a significant military base for the space pirates for an unknown period of time, so they had plenty of opportunity to steal, reverse engineer, or learn how to replicate chozo technology. Prime does state that the pirates are utterly baffled by some chozo tech, like the artefact temple lock, but they seem to have some degree of success replicating other chozo tech as indicated by the existence of wave troopers, plasma troopers, etc. These are imperfect replicas, but not outright failures, the pirates at least knew where to begin with this. this is unsurprising as we would not expect all chozo technology to have the same level of sophistication or complexity. in the real world, combustion engines are more complicated [and harder to understand] than bicycles, and supercomputers are more complicated [and harder to understand] than combustion engines, yet our society produces all three of these devices simultaneously. it's not surprising therefore that the space pirates are able to perfectly duplicate the most simple chozo machines [such as doors and electromagnetic rails], while having limited success with other tech and being utterly baffled by the most advanced artefacts.
@@FlatulentFetus “There’s a wild disconnect between what the scans describe and what the environments show, such as life “dying by the thousands” and phazon “encompassing the planet in a night.”
The issue here is that you’re reading a newer version of the lore entries. Neither of these statements exist in the original, instead the Chozo write that the great poison “Slowly began to spread across the surface of Tallon 4”
"We can speculate on how that may have frozen Phendrana, and how Chozo Ruins has dried out, but a part of my point was that I don’t think Prime goes nearly far enough in providing information to speculate on."
If you know enough about the relationship between climate and ecosystem [and I'm not some kind of expert or PHD or whatever, I just think that stuff is interesting], it does not seem to require much speculation at all. the solution seems to flow very naturally from the information that the game does provide. I'll admit that this is my perspective, and that my conclusions are speculative to a degree, but I never felt a need for the game to provide more information on this than it does.
"Chozo Ruins’ dryness similarly has no hint of being connected to Phazon, and there’s no evidence in the environment itself that it was once possibly less dry."
The fact that the plants that do exist here do not have adaptations for an arid environment [which you would be able to see visually] suggest that the environment has dried out very rapidly. If chozo ruins had always been arid the trees would have bloated looking trunks [for conserving water], the branches would be short or entirely absent, and the leaves would be small and thin. These adaptations have convergently evolved in almost all real world plants living in such conditions regardless of their phylogenetic background, so we can safely say that these same adaptations would also occur in a similar habitat on an alien world. The trees found in Chozo ruins are clearly adapted for a much wetter environment, suggesting that the area has dried out more quickly than the local plants were able to adapt.
"None of the trees appear to actually be dying"
If you scan them the game straight up tells you that they are decomposing, and that the leaves are “unnaturally dried and withered.” This is also further evidence that Chozo ruins was once less arid.
"I gotta also disagree with your point on the Metroid Prime origin. As you bring up, your described theory is contradictory with other games in a multitude of ways."
those games did not exist at the time so they are irrelevant. I'm pretty sure some of the devs have said that they weren't even thinking about sequels until after prime released and sold decently well.