Signal boxes didnt invent computing as such, but we DO use some signalling jargon (interlock, signals, semaphores, tokens) in Concurrent software to prevent conflicts in resources, etc which is exactly what signals on the railway are for!
it's a precursor in the sense that it was an early application of binary logic; that and textiles manufacturing -- it's a computer in the same input+logic=output sense that Babbage's difference engine is (he and his family have a lot of railway connections)..
I'm thankful we hold railway operation to much higher safety and quality standards than software. Wouldn't want to take a train running into a race condition. 😅
But a *lot* of early computer research was done by the Tech Model Railway Club at MIT, as they automated their model railway system (and created the Jargon File, which standardised and publicised much computer jargon), so terminology crossing from railways into computing was not a coincidence. Computer jargon *does* come from railways. Model railways.
I was a signalman for ten years around Dundee working in ten different boxes. They were all manual boxes, I did spend some time in Dundee Power Box and learned for to operate the new system installed. People think that the train driver is the man responsible for train safety. Wrong. The driver is responsible for one train, whereas the signalman is responsible for one, two, four, ten or any number of trains. He is the most important man on the railway. I also did ten years as a ticket examiner and finally, twenty years as Station Master in the north of Scotland. I loved working on the railway. I retired at sixty nine after over forty years.
This video reminds me of when Tom Scott went to that signalling training facility that had mock-ups of all signal types - semaphore, 1980's buttons and modern screens - and controlled a little model railway 😊
There was something like that at Webb House in Crewe when I did my signaller's courses. Not the modern stuff of course, Motherwell was state of the art at the time
There's a vintage model railway at the NRM that was used to train signallers on the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, LMS and BR until about the 1970s.
A couple of decades ago, my wife bought me a one-day loco driving course at Tyseley, and apart from driving a saddle tank and a 4-6-0 Castle class and climbing into the firebox of an LMS 4-6-0 under repair, we operated the signal box, a GWR version of the Littlehampton manual box. When I was a student in the early 1980s before privatisation, the university transport society arranged visits to signal boxes. On one occasion we visited Loughborough box (which was a manual box) and Derby box, which was a power signal box, on the same day. I don't know whether clubs or societies could range such visits these days?
This was a fantastic video, Geoff. Really appreciate the 'story arc' from old to new with soundbites from everyone involved along the way. Really appreciate all the planning and attention to detail here!
As a railway signaller myself (allthough in germany) I do really enjoy hese kind of videos! Would love to see more about how signalling is done in the UK, seems to be quite different in some aspects.
It's very appropriate that there is a statue of George Boole just outside Lincoln Central Station. The inventor of Boolian Logic paved the way for modern computing. In a way, the old mechanical interlocking still used the basic concept of "go, no go" in deciding if a route was safe.
It's funny to think that the exact same developement over time happened in Germany: we still have the same mechanically interlocked levers pulling ropes to semaphores (and won't get rid of them any time soon either), lots of signal boxes are operated with the relais push-a-button technology from the 2nd Half of the 20th century and in the last decades we rolled out more and more central operation centers. Same technical logic and developpement, and almost the same technical design over here! Thanks for the very interesting insights, perfectly explained Geoff!
And I see that trend away from loco-hauled trains towards DMU/EMU here as well. Especially now with the new concept of the Twindexx (power cars that can haul normal carriages, essentially turning loco hauled trains into EMUs)
And since 10 years ago (when they merged) the largest player in the UK signalling industry and the German signaling industry is the same company.... The UK traces it's history right back to Saxby and Farmer And the German side (whose name is still used) back to an electric telegraph pioneer by the name of Werner von Siemens
I have seen UK railway navy census information with births of children in Rouen, France, and Antwerp, Belgium. Having built many of the railways in Britain, British navies were working in, at least France and Belgium, and perhaps further a field, building European railways.
Didn’t the federal train agency tell DB to replace their mechanical signal boxes asap because it’s just not possible to maintain the same safety standard as modern forms?
Hey Geoff just to let you know ever since I saw All The Stations, ive always wanted to visit Corrour and now im staying in the same exact room you did! Thanks for inspiring me
The modern signal boxes actually use a lot of the old techniques and therefore it is so important to learn the job from the beginning. As my training as a signal boxer began I started at an old signal box in Bad Neuenahr, Germany which was closed less than a year ago. During the two years of learning you make your way up to the electronic signal boxes. Interestingly you can even see how the newest signal boxes have developed over the years (late 1990s til today) and this make this job so interesting. Thank you so much for giving us a detailed look into Englands signal boxes!
@mdhazeldine Yes, they are quite similar. Regarding the old technique, the main difference is that while the one shown here uses poles the one on Germany use cables and the levers need to be turned more. Germany then had a mix between mechanical and electric signal boxes which I am not sure were a thing in the UK. The relay signal boxes however look alot smarter in Germany, which (in my personal opinion) is also the fact with the electric signal boxes. After all, they mostly use the same techniques, so it's just more a layout thing.
@@castlehighschool We do have some old style signal boxes that have used cables (I think?) and also had electrical/relay panels installed in them at a later date, or use a mix of both.
Back in the sixties when I used to go trainspotting with my mates, I was always far more fascinated with the signals than the actual locos. Where I lived there was a mixture of upper and lower quadrant signals, one of the lines being ex GWR, but there were still some ex LNWR signals along with the more modern LMS and BR signals, there were even a few two and three aspect colour light signals. Luckily I managed to photograph some of the signal boxes and what was left of the gantries during the early eighties before they were demolished. Thank you for posting this interesting video.
Thankfully, Heritage railways lovingly preserve and still operate signal boxes and token systems. Long may that continue and long may we all value and support them.
Thank you, Geoff and NR for the behind-the-scenes visits. As someone from N America, it is fascinating to see semaphores still used on a sophisticated rail network. It's one of the things that draws me to UK trains. I hope they remain as long as possible. Brilliant video as always!
totally love this style of video! Thanks Geoff. I watched it while knitting a lace wrap/shawl - which became very relevant just a few minutes into the video. Train signals came in around the time that there was a lot of innovation and invention that led to the various different electronic computer systems we have today. Binary code comes from the Jacquard weaving looms in France developed in 1804-1805 by Joseph-Marie Jacquard that used punched cards to save the code for the complex two colour fabric designs. The first digital computer the "Difference Engine" then the Analytical Engine was designed by Charles Babbage - but couldn't be built with the technology in his time. Ada Lovelace "Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace" (Lord Byron's daughter) wrote the first computer programs for the Analytical Engine. Her mother trained Ada in science and mathematics so she wouldn't end up like the philanderer her father was. ... Which set things up for the ROC to operate today (and NORAD ;-) ). You can see restored 1800s Jacquard weaving looms by visiting The Silk Mill at: "The Silk Museum, Park Lane, Macclesfield Cheshire, SK11 6TJ" Given the industrial revolution history there's a likely really cool railway connection. 🧶🚆
I didn’t know of your content Geoff, until this got forwarded to me by a couple of pals. It’s excellent. Nice to have met you. Best regards, Paul. Rlf sig at Littlehampton.
Great video Geoff, I live near the Littlehampton signal box and have always wanted to see inside it, thank you. Also the North London line still used semaphores until the late 1990s
I so enjoyed this, brought back so many memories as my first job was at GEC General Signals, including relay interlocking. I specialised in the use of electronic communications called TDM systems to remote 'relay room' interlocking. BTW modern computing was invented in 1822 by Charles Babbage, predating railway signalling interlocking systems. Reminded me of so many stories I could tell from 50 years ago :)
Thanks Geoff, one of your best pieces of documentary film-making in my opinion and that really is saying something given all the great videos you've made to date! 😄
I pass the Three Bridges ROC on my daily commute and have always been curious about what goes on inside since it was built in 2014! Thanks Geoff my curiosity has been fulfilled!👏
Very cool. The Raton subdivision north of me here in Albuquerque NM is the last US mainline that still uses semaphore signals. They can be seen for now when riding the Southwest Chief, but they probably won’t be around for much longer.
A replacement project is already underway. If you want to make plans to see them, you are probably already too late. Of course, the semaphores on Raton were not mechanically controlled. They were FAR too remote for that. That remoteness was one of the reasons for their survival. The other reason was their low traffic. Raton Pass has 3.5% grades, and so over the course of the 20th Century freight traffic diverted to the Belen Cutoff and its 1.25% grades. Today, the only regular traffic on Raton is the Southwest Chief, which runs once a day in either direction. It was even threatened with abandonment until the government of New Mexico stepped in and bought it. There IS the possibility of increased traffic if various passenger rail proposals currently floating around happen, but its probably not something to hold ones breath about. The US DOES have some manned towers at particularly critical junctions, but they are mostly used by passenger trains and run by government agencies responsible for those particular passenger trains-most notably in Chicago's commuter rail system METRA. And the primary reason for those remaining is a mixture of lack of financial means and a desire to eventually replace those flat junctions with grade-separated systems. Otherwise, rail traffic is primarily operated remotely (potentially thousands of miles away). For the privately-owned freight railroads, its a question of saving money in not having to employ people at remote towers. I'm surprised that the savings of wages and mechanical equipment doesn't factor likewise across the Pond.
In 1976 I was on a 4 week commute between Sunderland, down the coast, to Billingham. The whole line was operated by semaphore signals; the charm of those on their own, ignited my love of railways!
Very nice to see the UK version of what will hopefully soon by my job in the Netherlands. I'm currently going through the recruitment process and trainings to become a signaller.
Hi Geoff as you know we have a lot of manual signalling round here, Hereford, Worcester, Shropshire. Timings, reliability and timetables seem fine on the secondary routes. I bet the bean counters would love to see these old systems go!
Travelling by train is awesome and despite what some might think, the people that keep it running - safely - are pretty awesome too. Great video Geoff!
I lived near Three Bridges for over 40 years. I can remember when the Rail Operations Centre and ASC didn't exist, and the main London to Brighton line, plus associated branches, had numerous smaller signal boxes along the routes. Not all corresponded to station locations, we had "Streatham Junction" (near Streatham Common Station), "Gloucester Road Junction" (just north of East Croydon, where the main lines to London Bridge and Vuctoria diverge), and "Stoat's Nest Junction" (near Purley). Three Bridges itself had its own small box, situated at the southern end of Platform 2.
I do love semaphore signals, until fairly recently they were still in use on the Greenford branch line and I found it fascinating. You can see still infact an old set of signals from Greenford station on the old Acton-Northolt line. Fantastic video, very structured - loved it!
I enjoy all your videos being a train enthusiast/spotter myself. I grew up in South London and know the area well, so this video was very entertaining. Thanks Geoff.
Hello Geoff, nice to see this video. Brought back memories of when I was a S&T Technician on Chichester patch and Maintained the Littlehampton SB. Started on BR back in 1968 when it was all mechanical. Also done faulting and maintenance on the Brighton mainline from Brighton to Victoria VSC and all the branch lines. Nice to see 3 Bridges ASC and the same stairs I used to climb when on shift, here. Signalling has evolved in my many years, many good railway men as well.
Tim gave a really clear and easy to follow explanation of the signalling machinery. I feel like I've seen several railway films showing a signalman pulling the levers but never the details about the differences in the levers and the machinery and interlocking system beneath. Great blurring effect on the train at 16:55
I guess this signalling business is very complicated! I confess I assumed it was all completely automated. It's a real eye-opener to see how much human involvement there is.
Many thanks to all three of you and all the others who accepted your presence with good grace! :0) This was a great view behind the scenes, but snappy, and Geoff was smiling so much, it warmed my heart!
As a kid growing up in New York City I was always fascinated on how things worked on our rail network, the subway. Thanks Goeff for reminding me that I still have that little curious kid inside me.
Fascinating video, thanks. My grandpa, fathers side, was a signalman who died in 1932 walking home along the tracks from his signal box and was allegedly struck by an unscheduled train. Sounds like hooey to me but the train company paid his wife compensation (a pitifully small sum) and she was allowed to live out her days in her railway cottage.
Fascinating. The juxtaposition of 19th century mechanical signalling with the 21st century monitor showing the approaching train movements is an indication of one the biggest challenges: making all the different systems work together. Working in Signals & Telecomms back in the 1980s, I was impressed how they managed to work out the immensely complicated interlocking was using just relays (thousands and thousands of the power-hungry bu**ers). And standing in one of the smaller relay rooms, you could tell as trains passed through the section controlled by it from the "chatter" of the relays moving through the room as the train triggered block sections and signals changed aspect.
A very different work environment for signallers when you compare the lever box (where some points at a distance from the box could need a lot of effort) to the signalling centre. In many lever boxes the signaller would spend most of their working days on their own, in the signalling centre it appears to be very much more team based, with your line manager on hand much of the time. Good video, and well done Network Rail for allowing it to be made.
10:00 thank you so much for showing this. I am always very nervous about level crossings, but knowing these checks are in place, and the diligence that Dean showed makes me feel so much less anxious. Thank you.
I remember as a kid in the late 70s I had a distant uncle who was a signalman at Surbiton. I remember spending an hour or so in the signalbox one evening; and the (then) giant panel taht was about a 10-15 mile stretch of the South West Mail Line (and a few minor lines). I remember that the level crossings all had CCTV, and the signalmen had to turn on the flashing lights, wait for the cars to stop, then drop the gates, (all done via CCTV) then set the signal. I still look for that box (it's still there) when I whiz past..
Really love stuf fand information like that. Actually think, the general (train riding) public should also know more of this - at least a bit. I also love Chris. What a true sweetheart.
I'm definitely with Chris, I simply can't get my head round how people do this job, my brain just doesn't work that way and never could! Fascinating watch :)
Well what a great video this one was. Absolute respect to the signal men and women for the job they do. This was fascinating. Way, way back….in 1980 in fact…I was a ‘Bobby on the beat’ in Crawley and the signal box at the level crossing in the town was a ‘tea stop’. The signalman was a gent, name of Len. You could just see the old signal box base in one of the screens at Three Bridges in this video. I was full of respect for the responsibility placed on these guys shoulders back then and I really do take my hat off to them today.
Brilliant. As an IRSE licensed signalling principles tester myself, at last I can show this to my wife and she can understand the industry I have been involved with for 45 years. Thanks Geoff.
Fantastic video, as a driver it's always interesting seeing the person on the other end of the GSM-R doing their job. On my patch our final semaphores were replaced 4-5 years ago, so very happy that I had the experience of driving under this system as well as more standard TCB Colour Lights!
In Germany we also have these 3 steps of evolution of signalling. The oldest being mechanical lever frames looking a bit more massive than the British ones, the second being electromechanical with the most common one called SpDrS60 (line plan and push button signalling system) being used from 1963 and finally electronic and digital signalling like the ROC shown in the video. Very interesting to see how signalling works over there, thanks for showing us inside!
Something about a semaphore I loved. This it was knowing that there was an element of human cause and effect! I miss the huge stacks of them at Barnetby.
I was a regular traveller on the Brighton line back in the 80's and can remember when the Three bridges ASC came into operation. All so modern back then, now looking so dated. Very interesting video Geoff, really enjoy these 'look behind the scenes' type vids.
That was very interesting Geoff shows how far signaling has come over the centuries! Makes train travel all the more interesting especially with all the new lines and stations opening! Keep it up brilliant 😊
Best video ever Geoff, absolutely outstanding. Only surprise for me, as I'd clearly misunderstood, is that even with ETCS there are still traditional signals trackside rather than in the cab. Wonderful job by Network Rail hosting you and explaining everything so clearly.
There are different configurations and levels of ETCS deployment, retaining existing lamps on sticks style signalling concurrently with ETCS deployment is often used to facilitate migration when not all rolling stock is fitted with ETCS on board equipment at the time of ETCS deployment. In due course when all trains that use the ETCS area are fitted then the traditional colour light signalling can be removed.
This is a genuinely excellent video Geoff. A fantastic introduction to the principals that keep the railway safe. Well done. Probably not intentional but great timing as NRM just put out a video on Sunday about the class 700s using ATO on Thameslink.
Interesting that the CCTV that gives the signal operator a view of what's going on at the level crossing switches off as soon as the operator presses the "Crossing clear" button. So if anything happens after that time the only thing preventing a potential accident is the train crew noticing something's wrong and being able to bring the train to a halt in time.
Wow, this was very interesting. I knew semaphore signalling was still in use in Britain (in The Netherlands the last mainline use of them was in the early 80s, last NX went in the early 90s), but was very surprised that the modern ROC still uses manual signalling. It;''s all automated here with automated pathing commands, our signallers can only overrule when needed.
It's very interesting indeed as everything in the Netherlands (As you said) is automated with various abstraction layers under it depending on the safety system it eventually controls, although none of those will involve semaphores. It also means that all 12 ROC equivalents (They are called something that translates to Traffic management posts) in the Netherlands are standardized, so they run the same software and have the same hardware where the key difference is the configuration for the area they are responsible for. The UK still having various different ways of doing so and various more legacy systems makes me wonder how much extra cost is involved there. Although I also realize that getting the budget to replace it all is something else entirely.
This isn't just one of the most interesting and well done videos you've made, Geoff, but it's one of the most interesting and well done videos on TH-cam.
What an incredible inside look at Network Rail's different signaling operations. This makes me very interested in learning more about how it all works.
I love how all these buildings breath all the different eras from the 19th century, up till that 70's office look and then all of a sudden Beautiful green tiling in a staircase.
Thanks Geoff for showing my local area :) Semaphores on the Littlehampton branch always seem like a bit of a 19th century throwback albeit a charming one and those mechanical interlocks look fascinating. The rest of the Arun valley line was finally re-signalled about about 5 years ago and a friend from Network Rail explained that some of the semaphore signals there still used gas lights right up until the upgrade. I often wonder if he was pulling my leg but somehow I doubt it...
Great video, i was on duty at Three bridges asc over on panel 2 you looked pretty busy so thought I'd leave you to it 👍🏼 glad you enjoyed your visit pop back another time,
This is such a cool vid. I remember visiting a signal box at Bletchley when I was a kid in the 80s. I got to help the signalman\ler pull a points switch and I remember it being so heavy. Managed to get in through my uncle who worked track maintenance for BR. It was one of the greatest days of my life. Always makes me sad when I see empty boxes at major junctions. Good to see some are still going. Kinda feel like ATC towers are the signal boxes of the future. It'll all be done by computers.
Phenomenal video as always Geoff. Love to see the lovely Chris again, as well as getting a reminder of how much manual human concentration and work goes into something that most people take for granted. Mindblowing that there are people controlling the super high frequency thameslink core
Good video Geoff nice to see a signal box still being used part of our history. When I moved to Suffolk a few years ago lowerstoft and surrounding areas still had boxes semaphore signals and crossings with gates all gone now
Thanks Geoff for this documentary on signalling covering the first type of signalling system right through to the modern-age signalling to show how the signallers keep the trains moving safely to ensure us passengers get to our destinations safely.
I'm a Software Engineer so seeing anything that was built in that early period of computing (semaphore signals, post office switching boxes etc.) is so awesome and makes me think of code completely differently. If anyone is interested in that stuff like me, the National Computing Museum has the Tunny machine (and others) that demonstrated early computing methods for things like cracking the Lorenz and Enigma. You can also pop into Bletchley Park while you're there!
Not gonna lie. With all the screens today; the 1980s tactile buttons with light up boards was way more appealing to me than the screens on screens on screens. Great, great tour and guests.
As an ex- Thameslink driver we used to call three bridges box “the snooker club” because we always had a red before getting another colour at the major stations. The amount of delays we encountered because of late running south central services was criminal, if it was booked in advance of our service we had to wait. I never understood the logic, why make another train late unnecessarily because of another late running service? The arguments between one of our senior operating managers and their train regulators were legendary!
Because of transfers? Passengers on train B want to use train C. As B is timetabled to arrive before C this is no problem, unless train B was made late by train A running late. If C is let go before B you get all the angry passengers on B who missed C, particularly when train B or C isn't very frequent.
In NZ with about 3,500 route kilometres, we have a new signalling centre for all of the system recently opened in the Hutt Valley. Only the Auckland suburban system has a seperate control centre. All our signals are colour light, and most of the system is single track except in the main centres. So crossing loops are strategically placed to allow opposing trains to pass. Many years ago I was able to visit Wellington “A” box and have also been in the old Napier and Taihape control rooms, now redundant. A very interesting video from Geoff, who always asks the questions we all would want to ask.
Hi Geoff. thanks for this. was on welsh marches line yesterday with manual boxes and signals. With 153s still in use they were smoother, cooler with opening windows and much better ride than the 197s which bumped and banged up and down the line. 158s were ok but very sticky as air conditioning not working. Saw the new 805s at Chester on Holyhead to Euston services. not yet have the luck to ride a 67 and mk 4s. Caroline
Thanks for clearing up somthing that’s had me scratching my head for years! Why do signalers have a cloth, I always thought to stop sweaty hands slipping or making their hands smell metallic like when you hold a coin. Another enjoyable watch.
This kind of reminds me of my job at the New York City subway at a smaller scale. I don't handle the signals. I actually drive the trains but to see the people at the towers in the master towers that cover a huge section of the Subway and in the Rail Control Center that covers the entire Subway system. I've seen how they work while i'm at work
@geofftech2 I'm all over, but i've operated every line in the system. The oldest I've seen in the system is Jay Street and Hoyt-Schemerhorn Streets Towers in Brooklyn. They have the old signal levers, similar to the signal boxes in the UK. They also have those old signal levers in some of the yards. Most towers have push button levers where you set an entrance and exit on the line.
Signal boxes didnt invent computing as such, but we DO use some signalling jargon (interlock, signals, semaphores, tokens) in Concurrent software to prevent conflicts in resources, etc which is exactly what signals on the railway are for!
I don't know how I've never made that connection
@@SingleTheShot Me neither! Brilliant bit of trivia.
it's a precursor in the sense that it was an early application of binary logic; that and textiles manufacturing -- it's a computer in the same input+logic=output sense that Babbage's difference engine is (he and his family have a lot of railway connections)..
I'm thankful we hold railway operation to much higher safety and quality standards than software. Wouldn't want to take a train running into a race condition. 😅
But a *lot* of early computer research was done by the Tech Model Railway Club at MIT, as they automated their model railway system (and created the Jargon File, which standardised and publicised much computer jargon), so terminology crossing from railways into computing was not a coincidence. Computer jargon *does* come from railways. Model railways.
I was a signalman for ten years around Dundee working in ten different boxes. They were all manual boxes, I did spend some time in Dundee Power Box and learned for to operate the new system installed. People think that the train driver is the man responsible for train safety. Wrong. The driver is responsible for one train, whereas the signalman is responsible for one, two, four, ten or any number of trains. He is the most important man on the railway. I also did ten years as a ticket examiner and finally, twenty years as Station Master in the north of Scotland. I loved working on the railway. I retired at sixty nine after over forty years.
What a marvellous career! Best wishes to you Brian.
This video reminds me of when Tom Scott went to that signalling training facility that had mock-ups of all signal types - semaphore, 1980's buttons and modern screens - and controlled a little model railway 😊
I'm sure a lot of us were thinking of that one! Thank you Geoff for showing us these on _real_ rail lines now, too. ❤
Its interesting how similar the different signal box types are between countries even though they were all developed separately.
There was something like that at Webb House in Crewe when I did my signaller's courses. Not the modern stuff of course, Motherwell was state of the art at the time
There's a vintage model railway at the NRM that was used to train signallers on the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, LMS and BR until about the 1970s.
...and thanks to you too Geoff. We're lucky to have you and your quality and reputation gets you in to places normally off-limits for us to see
Thanks Peter, very kind 👍
Many heritage railways still operate using the same equipment that you saw in Littlehampton SB. It is possible to pre-arrange visits to most of them.
A couple of decades ago, my wife bought me a one-day loco driving course at Tyseley, and apart from driving a saddle tank and a 4-6-0 Castle class and climbing into the firebox of an LMS 4-6-0 under repair, we operated the signal box, a GWR version of the Littlehampton manual box.
When I was a student in the early 1980s before privatisation, the university transport society arranged visits to signal boxes. On one occasion we visited Loughborough box (which was a manual box) and Derby box, which was a power signal box, on the same day. I don't know whether clubs or societies could range such visits these days?
Hey Jeff marshal go to Amsterdam they have the biggest trump network
@@geofftech2 go to Amsterdam they have trains and trams
This was a fantastic video, Geoff. Really appreciate the 'story arc' from old to new with soundbites from everyone involved along the way. Really appreciate all the planning and attention to detail here!
Thank you, appreciated! 😊
As a railway signaller myself (allthough in germany) I do really enjoy hese kind of videos! Would love to see more about how signalling is done in the UK, seems to be quite different in some aspects.
I don't know if there have been major changes since it was made, but Tsets out of Australia does a film about it
It's very appropriate that there is a statue of George Boole just outside Lincoln Central Station. The inventor of Boolian Logic paved the way for modern computing. In a way, the old mechanical interlocking still used the basic concept of "go, no go" in deciding if a route was safe.
*Boolean. I'm not correcting you for the sake of it, but you can see how that spelling derives from his name better.
George Boole was linked by marriage to George Everest and Wilfrid Voynich (to take just two of the interesting people in the family)
@@jackiespeel6343George Everest - double glazing titan? 🙃
@@Interdimensional27 No, the mountain man (who said his name differently).
Been outside Lincoln Central hundreds of times and never knew this - cool!
It's funny to think that the exact same developement over time happened in Germany: we still have the same mechanically interlocked levers pulling ropes to semaphores (and won't get rid of them any time soon either), lots of signal boxes are operated with the relais push-a-button technology from the 2nd Half of the 20th century and in the last decades we rolled out more and more central operation centers. Same technical logic and developpement, and almost the same technical design over here!
Thanks for the very interesting insights, perfectly explained Geoff!
And I see that trend away from loco-hauled trains towards DMU/EMU here as well. Especially now with the new concept of the Twindexx (power cars that can haul normal carriages, essentially turning loco hauled trains into EMUs)
And since 10 years ago (when they merged) the largest player in the UK signalling industry and the German signaling industry is the same company....
The UK traces it's history right back to Saxby and Farmer
And the German side (whose name is still used) back to an electric telegraph pioneer by the name of Werner von Siemens
Ja und heute hat der Fahrdienstleiter mal wieder geschwänzt und es durften keine Züge fahren...
I have seen UK railway navy census information with births of children in Rouen, France, and Antwerp, Belgium. Having built many of the railways in Britain, British navies were working in, at least France and Belgium, and perhaps further a field, building European railways.
Didn’t the federal train agency tell DB to replace their mechanical signal boxes asap because it’s just not possible to maintain the same safety standard as modern forms?
Hey Geoff just to let you know ever since I saw All The Stations, ive always wanted to visit Corrour and now im staying in the same exact room you did! Thanks for inspiring me
I liked having the old signal boxes as you had another pair of eyes looking after their local sections. (Plus handy for hot water for the tea can)
I don't know why, but a video with Chris always makes me smile!
It’s been a while since we’ve seen Chris. Good to see him on Geoff’s channel again!
He always makes me smile too!
Oh you guys!
Mine of information, clearly presented, that's why you guy!
Agreed! Chris had to be my favourite reoccurring guest!
The modern signal boxes actually use a lot of the old techniques and therefore it is so important to learn the job from the beginning. As my training as a signal boxer began I started at an old signal box in Bad Neuenahr, Germany which was closed less than a year ago. During the two years of learning you make your way up to the electronic signal boxes. Interestingly you can even see how the newest signal boxes have developed over the years (late 1990s til today) and this make this job so interesting. Thank you so much for giving us a detailed look into Englands signal boxes!
I take it the systems in Germany are very similar to ours?
@mdhazeldine Yes, they are quite similar. Regarding the old technique, the main difference is that while the one shown here uses poles the one on Germany use cables and the levers need to be turned more. Germany then had a mix between mechanical and electric signal boxes which I am not sure were a thing in the UK. The relay signal boxes however look alot smarter in Germany, which (in my personal opinion) is also the fact with the electric signal boxes. After all, they mostly use the same techniques, so it's just more a layout thing.
@@castlehighschool We do have some old style signal boxes that have used cables (I think?) and also had electrical/relay panels installed in them at a later date, or use a mix of both.
Back in the sixties when I used to go trainspotting with my mates, I was always far more fascinated with the signals than the actual locos. Where I lived there was a mixture of upper and lower quadrant signals, one of the lines being ex GWR, but there were still some ex LNWR signals along with the more modern LMS and BR signals, there were even a few two and three aspect colour light signals. Luckily I managed to photograph some of the signal boxes and what was left of the gantries during the early eighties before they were demolished. Thank you for posting this interesting video.
Thankfully, Heritage railways lovingly preserve and still operate signal boxes and token systems. Long may that continue and long may we all value and support them.
Thank you, Geoff and NR for the behind-the-scenes visits. As someone from N America, it is fascinating to see semaphores still used on a sophisticated rail network. It's one of the things that draws me to UK trains. I hope they remain as long as possible. Brilliant video as always!
totally love this style of video! Thanks Geoff. I watched it while knitting a lace wrap/shawl - which became very relevant just a few minutes into the video.
Train signals came in around the time that there was a lot of innovation and invention that led to the various different electronic computer systems we have today.
Binary code comes from the Jacquard weaving looms in France developed in 1804-1805 by Joseph-Marie Jacquard that used punched cards to save the code for the complex two colour fabric designs.
The first digital computer the "Difference Engine" then the Analytical Engine was designed by Charles Babbage - but couldn't be built with the technology in his time. Ada Lovelace "Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace" (Lord Byron's daughter) wrote the first computer programs for the Analytical Engine. Her mother trained Ada in science and mathematics so she wouldn't end up like the philanderer her father was.
... Which set things up for the ROC to operate today (and NORAD ;-) ).
You can see restored 1800s Jacquard weaving looms by visiting The Silk Mill at: "The Silk Museum, Park Lane, Macclesfield Cheshire, SK11 6TJ"
Given the industrial revolution history there's a likely really cool railway connection.
🧶🚆
I didn’t know of your content Geoff, until this got forwarded to me by a couple of pals. It’s excellent. Nice to have met you. Best regards, Paul. Rlf sig at Littlehampton.
Thanks for being a great host Paul!
hey Paul! ah, thanks .. very kind. thanks for having us, and thanks for the tea! we had a cracking day.
Great to see Tim still going strong. He was my Signalling Manager many moons ago!
Great video Geoff, I live near the Littlehampton signal box and have always wanted to see inside it, thank you.
Also the North London line still used semaphores until the late 1990s
I so enjoyed this, brought back so many memories as my first job was at GEC General Signals, including relay interlocking. I specialised in the use of electronic communications called TDM systems to remote 'relay room' interlocking.
BTW modern computing was invented in 1822 by Charles Babbage, predating railway signalling interlocking systems.
Reminded me of so many stories I could tell from 50 years ago :)
Brilliantly presented Geoff. Really do love signal boxes and the old semaphore signals.
Thanks Geoff, one of your best pieces of documentary film-making in my opinion and that really is saying something given all the great videos you've made to date! 😄
Wow, thank you!
I pass the Three Bridges ROC on my daily commute and have always been curious about what goes on inside since it was built in 2014! Thanks Geoff my curiosity has been fulfilled!👏
Really enjoyed this film - thank you for sharing. And well done to the railways people themselves for letting you in
Very cool. The Raton subdivision north of me here in Albuquerque NM is the last US mainline that still uses semaphore signals. They can be seen for now when riding the Southwest Chief, but they probably won’t be around for much longer.
Love the southwest chief, such a beautiful route, nothing like it in the UK
A replacement project is already underway. If you want to make plans to see them, you are probably already too late.
Of course, the semaphores on Raton were not mechanically controlled. They were FAR too remote for that. That remoteness was one of the reasons for their survival.
The other reason was their low traffic. Raton Pass has 3.5% grades, and so over the course of the 20th Century freight traffic diverted to the Belen Cutoff and its 1.25% grades. Today, the only regular traffic on Raton is the Southwest Chief, which runs once a day in either direction. It was even threatened with abandonment until the government of New Mexico stepped in and bought it.
There IS the possibility of increased traffic if various passenger rail proposals currently floating around happen, but its probably not something to hold ones breath about.
The US DOES have some manned towers at particularly critical junctions, but they are mostly used by passenger trains and run by government agencies responsible for those particular passenger trains-most notably in Chicago's commuter rail system METRA. And the primary reason for those remaining is a mixture of lack of financial means and a desire to eventually replace those flat junctions with grade-separated systems.
Otherwise, rail traffic is primarily operated remotely (potentially thousands of miles away). For the privately-owned freight railroads, its a question of saving money in not having to employ people at remote towers. I'm surprised that the savings of wages and mechanical equipment doesn't factor likewise across the Pond.
I'm pretty sure the last ones just came down within the past year. If not, there's probably only one pair left.
@@00Zy99it's usually the huge cost of replacing it all far outweighs the wages
As of today (8-20-2024) Only 11 remain on this route
In 1976 I was on a 4 week commute between Sunderland, down the coast, to Billingham. The whole line was operated by semaphore signals; the charm of those on their own, ignited my love of railways!
Very nice to see the UK version of what will hopefully soon by my job in the Netherlands. I'm currently going through the recruitment process and trainings to become a signaller.
Hi Geoff as you know we have a lot of manual signalling round here, Hereford, Worcester, Shropshire. Timings, reliability and timetables seem fine on the secondary routes. I bet the bean counters would love to see these old systems go!
Travelling by train is awesome and despite what some might think, the people that keep it running - safely - are pretty awesome too. Great video Geoff!
I work as a developer supporting some of the software used at the ROCs an had the privilege to visit the ROC in Derby. Truly an impressive experience.
I lived near Three Bridges for over 40 years. I can remember when the Rail Operations Centre and ASC didn't exist, and the main London to Brighton line, plus associated branches, had numerous smaller signal boxes along the routes. Not all corresponded to station locations, we had "Streatham Junction" (near Streatham Common Station), "Gloucester Road Junction" (just north of East Croydon, where the main lines to London Bridge and Vuctoria diverge), and "Stoat's Nest Junction" (near Purley). Three Bridges itself had its own small box, situated at the southern end of Platform 2.
I do love semaphore signals, until fairly recently they were still in use on the Greenford branch line and I found it fascinating. You can see still infact an old set of signals from Greenford station on the old Acton-Northolt line.
Fantastic video, very structured - loved it!
I enjoy all your videos being a train enthusiast/spotter myself. I grew up in South London and know the area well, so this video was very entertaining. Thanks Geoff.
Hello Geoff, nice to see this video. Brought back memories of when I was a S&T Technician on Chichester patch and Maintained the Littlehampton SB. Started on BR back in 1968 when it was all mechanical. Also done faulting and maintenance on the Brighton mainline from Brighton to Victoria VSC and all the branch lines. Nice to see 3 Bridges ASC and the same stairs I used to climb when on shift, here. Signalling has evolved in my many years, many good railway men as well.
Tim gave a really clear and easy to follow explanation of the signalling machinery. I feel like I've seen several railway films showing a signalman pulling the levers but never the details about the differences in the levers and the machinery and interlocking system beneath.
Great blurring effect on the train at 16:55
I guess this signalling business is very complicated! I confess I assumed it was all completely automated. It's a real eye-opener to see how much human involvement there is.
Many thanks to all three of you and all the others who accepted your presence with good grace! :0)
This was a great view behind the scenes, but snappy, and Geoff was smiling so much, it warmed my heart!
As a kid growing up in New York City I was always fascinated on how things worked on our rail network, the subway.
Thanks Goeff for reminding me that I still have that little curious kid inside me.
Excellent work, signal boxes are the heart of safe rail operations, equivalent to air traffic control.
Stop virtue signalling
Fascinating video, thanks. My grandpa, fathers side, was a signalman who died in 1932 walking home along the tracks from his signal box and was allegedly struck by an unscheduled train. Sounds like hooey to me but the train company paid his wife compensation (a pitifully small sum) and she was allowed to live out her days in her railway cottage.
Fascinating. The juxtaposition of 19th century mechanical signalling with the 21st century monitor showing the approaching train movements is an indication of one the biggest challenges: making all the different systems work together.
Working in Signals & Telecomms back in the 1980s, I was impressed how they managed to work out the immensely complicated interlocking was using just relays (thousands and thousands of the power-hungry bu**ers). And standing in one of the smaller relay rooms, you could tell as trains passed through the section controlled by it from the "chatter" of the relays moving through the room as the train triggered block sections and signals changed aspect.
A very different work environment for signallers when you compare the lever box (where some points at a distance from the box could need a lot of effort) to the signalling centre. In many lever boxes the signaller would spend most of their working days on their own, in the signalling centre it appears to be very much more team based, with your line manager on hand much of the time. Good video, and well done Network Rail for allowing it to be made.
Signalling centres are the railway equivalent of air traffic control which is where the concept evolved from.
10:00 thank you so much for showing this. I am always very nervous about level crossings, but knowing these checks are in place, and the diligence that Dean showed makes me feel so much less anxious. Thank you.
I remember as a kid in the late 70s I had a distant uncle who was a signalman at Surbiton. I remember spending an hour or so in the signalbox one evening; and the (then) giant panel taht was about a 10-15 mile stretch of the South West Mail Line (and a few minor lines). I remember that the level crossings all had CCTV, and the signalmen had to turn on the flashing lights, wait for the cars to stop, then drop the gates, (all done via CCTV) then set the signal. I still look for that box (it's still there) when I whiz past..
Really love stuf fand information like that. Actually think, the general (train riding) public should also know more of this - at least a bit.
I also love Chris. What a true sweetheart.
Where I live, one of the stations, Worcester Shrub Hill, has a wonderful array of semaphore signals still in operation.
I'm definitely with Chris, I simply can't get my head round how people do this job, my brain just doesn't work that way and never could! Fascinating watch :)
There are some jobs that need to be done by men.
That NORAD room is what we called SCADA, when I operated the light rail train in Dallas, Texas. It stands for Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition
@@denelson83 Did you watch the video? The bit where Geoff compares it to his favourite film.
I was so bored couldn't find anything to watch on TH-cam and then I see this video. Thanks geoff great job as always 👍:)
Well what a great video this one was. Absolute respect to the signal men and women for the job they do. This was fascinating.
Way, way back….in 1980 in fact…I was a ‘Bobby on the beat’ in Crawley and the signal box at the level crossing in the town was a ‘tea stop’. The signalman was a gent, name of Len. You could just see the old signal box base in one of the screens at Three Bridges in this video.
I was full of respect for the responsibility placed on these guys shoulders back then and I really do take my hat off to them today.
This was brilliant! Can we have more please Geoff!
Brilliant. As an IRSE licensed signalling principles tester myself, at last I can show this to my wife and she can understand the industry I have been involved with for 45 years. Thanks Geoff.
Fantastic video, as a driver it's always interesting seeing the person on the other end of the GSM-R doing their job. On my patch our final semaphores were replaced 4-5 years ago, so very happy that I had the experience of driving under this system as well as more standard TCB Colour Lights!
That was brilliant video. It's best watched on the telly. All your videos are tv quality👍
that's very kind of you to say, thank you!
In Germany we also have these 3 steps of evolution of signalling. The oldest being mechanical lever frames looking a bit more massive than the British ones, the second being electromechanical with the most common one called SpDrS60 (line plan and push button signalling system) being used from 1963 and finally electronic and digital signalling like the ROC shown in the video. Very interesting to see how signalling works over there, thanks for showing us inside!
Something about a semaphore I loved. This it was knowing that there was an element of human cause and effect! I miss the huge stacks of them at Barnetby.
I was a regular traveller on the Brighton line back in the 80's and can remember when the Three bridges ASC came into operation. All so modern back then, now looking so dated. Very interesting video Geoff, really enjoy these 'look behind the scenes' type vids.
Just loved this signalling YT. What great access and great people to work with.
That was very interesting Geoff shows how far signaling has come over the centuries! Makes train travel all the more interesting especially with all the new lines and stations opening! Keep it up brilliant 😊
Yes, WarGames is also one of my all time favourite films! 🤩 This video was so cool to watch, well done!
Best video ever Geoff, absolutely outstanding. Only surprise for me, as I'd clearly misunderstood, is that even with ETCS there are still traditional signals trackside rather than in the cab. Wonderful job by Network Rail hosting you and explaining everything so clearly.
ah, thank you .. kind comment!
There are different configurations and levels of ETCS deployment, retaining existing lamps on sticks style signalling concurrently with ETCS deployment is often used to facilitate migration when not all rolling stock is fitted with ETCS on board equipment at the time of ETCS deployment. In due course when all trains that use the ETCS area are fitted then the traditional colour light signalling can be removed.
Wow !!! Fantastic Video !!
I have always found signalling fascinating. It's wonderful to have a close look like this.
Burning question since 2007 for me, actually. Dreams can come true.
This is a genuinely excellent video Geoff. A fantastic introduction to the principals that keep the railway safe. Well done. Probably not intentional but great timing as NRM just put out a video on Sunday about the class 700s using ATO on Thameslink.
Interesting that the CCTV that gives the signal operator a view of what's going on at the level crossing switches off as soon as the operator presses the "Crossing clear" button. So if anything happens after that time the only thing preventing a potential accident is the train crew noticing something's wrong and being able to bring the train to a halt in time.
You bring us 'tales of the unexpected' Geoff. So many absorbing rail features.
Wow, this was very interesting. I knew semaphore signalling was still in use in Britain (in The Netherlands the last mainline use of them was in the early 80s, last NX went in the early 90s), but was very surprised that the modern ROC still uses manual signalling. It;''s all automated here with automated pathing commands, our signallers can only overrule when needed.
It's very interesting indeed as everything in the Netherlands (As you said) is automated with various abstraction layers under it depending on the safety system it eventually controls, although none of those will involve semaphores. It also means that all 12 ROC equivalents (They are called something that translates to Traffic management posts) in the Netherlands are standardized, so they run the same software and have the same hardware where the key difference is the configuration for the area they are responsible for.
The UK still having various different ways of doing so and various more legacy systems makes me wonder how much extra cost is involved there. Although I also realize that getting the budget to replace it all is something else entirely.
This isn't just one of the most interesting and well done videos you've made, Geoff, but it's one of the most interesting and well done videos on TH-cam.
What an incredible inside look at Network Rail's different signaling operations. This makes me very interested in learning more about how it all works.
I love how all these buildings breath all the different eras from the 19th century, up till that 70's office look and then all of a sudden Beautiful green tiling in a staircase.
Another superb video Geoff. Great to have an insight into something the vast majority of us take completely for granted when travelling on a train.
Thanks Geoff for showing my local area :) Semaphores on the Littlehampton branch always seem like a bit of a 19th century throwback albeit a charming one and those mechanical interlocks look fascinating. The rest of the Arun valley line was finally re-signalled about about 5 years ago and a friend from Network Rail explained that some of the semaphore signals there still used gas lights right up until the upgrade. I often wonder if he was pulling my leg but somehow I doubt it...
Hi, the Arun Valley went a decade ago now, unbelievably. And yes, they only went to battery lighting 3 years before the end.
Terrific video. Very enjoyable and very informative about what I was always curious about. Thank you!
Great video, i was on duty at Three bridges asc over on panel 2 you looked pretty busy so thought I'd leave you to it 👍🏼 glad you enjoyed your visit pop back another time,
Ah, you shoud have said hello - Hello! 👋
Another fascinating video on the train network, wonderful access to things we never see. Thank you, terrific!
This is such a cool vid. I remember visiting a signal box at Bletchley when I was a kid in the 80s. I got to help the signalman\ler pull a points switch and I remember it being so heavy. Managed to get in through my uncle who worked track maintenance for BR. It was one of the greatest days of my life. Always makes me sad when I see empty boxes at major junctions. Good to see some are still going. Kinda feel like ATC towers are the signal boxes of the future. It'll all be done by computers.
Always good to have Chris in the videos. I found this fascinating as this is all very much in my neck of the woods!
Thank you Geoff. That was brilliant, and really interesting.
I could watch signalling all day. 👍👍
Fantastic video! I love the comparison and contrast between old and new. How cool to learn some parts of the railroad still use semaphore signals.
Phenomenal video as always Geoff. Love to see the lovely Chris again, as well as getting a reminder of how much manual human concentration and work goes into something that most people take for granted. Mindblowing that there are people controlling the super high frequency thameslink core
Good video Geoff nice to see a signal box still being used part of our history. When I moved to Suffolk a few years ago lowerstoft and surrounding areas still had boxes semaphore signals and crossings with gates all gone now
Those signalling centres twist my mind, it's mind boggeling what goes on there. Lovely visit!
Thanks Geoff for this documentary on signalling covering the first type of signalling system right through to the modern-age signalling to show how the signallers keep the trains moving safely to ensure us passengers get to our destinations safely.
Wow, I had no idea the old style signal boxes were still in use. Thank Geoff.
Hooray for Littlehampton! A fascinating video as always. Thank you.😅
I'm a Software Engineer so seeing anything that was built in that early period of computing (semaphore signals, post office switching boxes etc.) is so awesome and makes me think of code completely differently. If anyone is interested in that stuff like me, the National Computing Museum has the Tunny machine (and others) that demonstrated early computing methods for things like cracking the Lorenz and Enigma. You can also pop into Bletchley Park while you're there!
Not gonna lie. With all the screens today; the 1980s tactile buttons with light up boards was way more appealing to me than the screens on screens on screens. Great, great tour and guests.
As an ex- Thameslink driver we used to call three bridges box “the snooker club” because we always had a red before getting another colour at the major stations. The amount of delays we encountered because of late running south central services was criminal, if it was booked in advance of our service we had to wait. I never understood the logic, why make another train late unnecessarily because of another late running service? The arguments between one of our senior operating managers and their train regulators were legendary!
Because of transfers?
Passengers on train B want to use train C. As B is timetabled to arrive before C this is no problem, unless train B was made late by train A running late. If C is let go before B you get all the angry passengers on B who missed C, particularly when train B or C isn't very frequent.
Brilliant. Enlightening in the same way as one of Don Coffey's cab rides on a freight train.
In NZ with about 3,500 route kilometres, we have a new signalling centre for all of the system recently opened in the Hutt Valley. Only the Auckland suburban system has a seperate control centre. All our signals are colour light, and most of the system is single track except in the main centres. So crossing loops are strategically placed to allow opposing trains to pass. Many years ago I was able to visit Wellington “A” box and have also been in the old Napier and Taihape control rooms, now redundant.
A very interesting video from Geoff, who always asks the questions we all would want to ask.
What a great video. We spent a week in London last week and I was marvelling my family with my knowledge of the underground.
Thanks for covering this! I joined Network Rail in January as a Signaller and am so glad that I did. It's weird where life takes you!
Can I have a line block please signaller? I have a GZAC 🙂
@@tucker9162the most hated phone call we receive 🤣
Fascinating to see the progression and how it all works 👍
Thanks!
Hi Geoff. thanks for this. was on welsh marches line yesterday with manual boxes and signals. With 153s still in use they were smoother, cooler with opening windows and much better ride than the 197s which bumped and banged up and down the line. 158s were ok but very sticky as air conditioning not working. Saw the new 805s at Chester on Holyhead to Euston services. not yet have the luck to ride a 67 and mk 4s. Caroline
Great documentary, Geoff. More like this please!
fantastic detail, discussions, and locations. Learning a great deal here and getting up to speed. I am from across the pond. Thanks Geoff !
Thanks for clearing up somthing that’s had me scratching my head for years! Why do signalers have a cloth, I always thought to stop sweaty hands slipping or making their hands smell metallic like when you hold a coin. Another enjoyable watch.
Last year I was lucky enough to get a tour of Three Bridges ROC what an impressive place.
This kind of reminds me of my job at the New York City subway at a smaller scale. I don't handle the signals. I actually drive the trains but to see the people at the towers in the master towers that cover a huge section of the Subway and in the Rail Control Center that covers the entire Subway system. I've seen how they work while i'm at work
Amazing! what line do you drive ?? What’s the oldest signalling they have on the Subway?
@geofftech2 I'm all over, but i've operated every line in the system. The oldest I've seen in the system is Jay Street and Hoyt-Schemerhorn Streets Towers in Brooklyn. They have the old signal levers, similar to the signal boxes in the UK. They also have those old signal levers in some of the yards. Most towers have push button levers where you set an entrance and exit on the line.