I have just recovered from a blood clot. She had classic symptoms!! A simple ultrasound could have detected it and blood thinners prescribed to clear it. Such a sad story. My condolences to her family.
Has happened to me, thought I was seeing a doctor but turns out it was a Physian Associate who acted like a doctor and didn’t bother to correct me when I referred to them as Doctor… the NHS is totally down the drain, awful
I've also seen when PAs and ANPs say who they are but the patient still calls them doctor. As long as they've correctly introduced themselves, there's nothing they can do if the patient keeps referring to them as doctor.
I saw a Physician's associate last week in a 'that day' appointment for my elderly mum. I wouldn't have known any difference as it wasn't mentioned, however it was labelled on the door which was open,so easily missed. I brought up his role in conversation but it wouldn't have been mentioned if l hadn't. I feel there is a problem with the name as it us to grand.
Here in the US, PA's are Physician's Assistants. "Associate" sounds too much as though they are junior physicians, which they are not. Regardless of title, I think they are bad idea. Urgent Care locations here are all staffed by PA's now. The care is not at the same high level,as back when Urgent Care was staffed by MD's.
@@silverorchid7194 Absolutely. The PA project is a bipartisan plan, Wes Streeting doubling med school places is pointless if Postgrad training posts are still at 2013 levels; leaving Doctors jobless after FY2 or ST3, leaving many to go abroad.
It's a sad story but the PA here could not have prescribed the medication as legally they can't. It had to have gone through a doctor who would have been the supervising doctor. For this to happen and twice clearly shows that the practice either does not have supervising doctors for the PAs they hire or the supervising doctor on the two occasions did not go through the list of patients the PA had seen on their clinic list for the day. If the supervising role was carried out at some point during the day, this would have been caught. The fact that the supervising doctor and GP practice is not being discussed screams red flags.
(Sighs in awake ex NHS worker at the suggestion that this could be just one rogue staff member) Still waiting for the media and public to wake up to the wolves in Sheeps clothing. This is the tip of the ice berg. Rest in peace to this poor woman. I know exactly what she went through. Not only because I witnessed it time and time again at work but because a nurse presenting as a doctor nearly killed me after I had the same symptoms and massive clots. RIP
This is becoming, greatly concerning! Concerned for the Qualified Doctors and patients, even a Staff Nurse or Registered Nurse, would be able to Diagnose a pain, in calf. Or ankle Or behind knee.. !
Awe, so sorry, condolences. What a beautiful young woman. Am sure due to her age they overlooked the bloodclot, this happens often. True, The GP could of made the same mistake. Here in the US, a PA is used more and more all the time. Your lucky to see the Dr.
the GP does not go into the room with the PA,they review certain patients afterward at the PA request if they need it.Its up to the GP to oversee the PA,its that practice that should be questioned more than the PA here.
That's exactly what I thought too. Although it isn't at the PA's request, the supervising doctor due to their experience when reviewing each patient seen by a PA can do so quickly depending on the patient's history and presenting complaint. Every supervising doctor should still go through the list of patients seen by the PA, of course with experienced PAs, and how long the doctor has supervised the PA. I agree that the supervising doctor who's name would be on the prescription for this patient and the GP practice have never been called to question which I find quite fishy.
My heart goes to this family, it happened to me over 6 years to seeva GP with abdominal pain 4 months prior to my diagnosis with life threatening terminal cancer, each day is a bonus for me, I hope and pray it doesn't happen to others.
In the USA their call Nurse Practitioner. If they want to give the patient a prescription the doctor has to approve it. Doctor reviews the Nurse Practitioner’s patient diagnosis
We have nurse practitioners in the uk as well, physician associates are something different and no where near the level of training and qualifications that a practice nurse has
False. In the US, there are nurse practitioners and physician assistants which are different than how they practice in the UK. Please don't spread false information that's damaging to my profession
Wrong and I paid 100 Dollars and this woman wheeled out and diagnosed me and later too I found out she's wasn't a " Doctor " but one of these Practioners
They're trying to replace doctors with Nurse Practioners in the U.S. too, and the NP's act like doctors and don't correct the impression with the patients.
I was 17 working in a dr’s surgery.. If someone requested a prescription for routine stuff I WOULD PRESCRiBE IT.. the dose as well.. After the morning surgery I would hand the dr a stack to sign.. And he would check them……… Your not safe. Always check.
My appendix ruptured in 2018 after I was sent home with gaviscon by a practitioner after a few days of like a trapped wind feeling but high up below my stomach. Hadn’t eaten or passed anything in a few days either.. a day or 2 later it ruptured 🤷
About time Ms Reid showed more compassion. They are talking as though it’s nothing bad. The attitude now is shameful. This ghastly programme has created so much toxicity. It should be axed. Ms Reid on the comfortable gravy train far too long. She don’t care she just goes private for her and her boys.
PAs are NOT worth 44-53k/year for a 37.5hr work week (compared to FY1s on ~33-34k for a 48hr week plus unpaid overtime, team members who are actually useful and can prescribe and order scans, unlike PAs). And yes PAs are replacing doctors. The east England deanery has 99 potential FY1s on a waiting list as they "don't have enough money" for those places. Yet they have money for PA "foundation trainees", eh? Furthermore, ARRS incentivises the replacement of Doctors with PAs in primary care. I have worked with PAs on many occasions over a wide variety of hospital settings; they double or triple my workload. They get paid more than ST2s (some more than ST3/IMT3 registrars!!) for equivalent base hours, and we would be better served with 1) More ST1-ST8 posts 2)More consultant posts, and 3) Band 4 Doctor's assistants. The PA role is not cost effective and needs to be scrapped. Queensland scrapped the role after a cohort went through "PA school". Why can't we? The British public deserve better. We have an oversubscription to ST1 and ST4 training posts despite only ~14% of FY2s directly applying for training post F2... don't complain when Doctors leave the UK if they can't get a job...
We was ignored for a year My two-year-old was suffering, debilitating, headaches, most mornings, she actually hadn’t even turned two, and it started. Just kept being told toddlers don’t get headaches she had a CT scan we were told it was all clear. Because that was reported clear for the next year, we wasjust ignored And dismissed every time. Until I’ve got a second opinion via a different route. Discovered a brain tumour. Due to the delay, she’s now quadriplegic as a tracheostomy ventilator at home. Turns out it was on the CT scan all along!
The best way is to just ask the person you are seeing, or the receptionist at the point of booking or arriving for your appointment. A patient has the right to choose who they see.
@@julesxx23 Actually that's not true. Your question made me think of an excellent PA and just average doctor and vice versa so no, it doesn't work like that. You've gotta have a brain to go through the PA course and a lot of people with first class degrees do the course as it's not for the faint hearted and I've met a lot of PAs who just prefer the work life balance of the profession and do not actually want to be doctors.
Simply put... this is extremely tragic... most of us have spoken to terrible doctors/gps that were unable to diagnose your illness.. PA need more scrutiny in their job role. Ive met two PAs, two different visits, and both spoke to a senior doctor before I left the surgery.. If it were bad, we'd hear 100s of these story. Change is definitely needed and job role clearly identified with limitations etc.
The GP here is missing the point,PAs are not created to do a consultants job,junior docs do not even do that,they are to do more routine cases and follow up of diagnosed patients in adition to protocol driven defined patient cohorts.The ignorance here is astounding.Where on earth did they get the idea that indivual practises can regulate any profession,she is referring to scope of practice which the GMC will set by year end when they take over regulation.
its not a physicians associate as the Mother said,its a physician associate as in they dont belong to the physician.They are scapegoating the profession since lots of patients die under doctors care and have been for decades.That practice,owned by consultant GPs had a responsibilty to make it clear who the patient was seeing at the reception stage and not allow prescibing in addition to overseeing their PA.
I was going to my Dr for 2 years telling them I had cancer, they told me it was depression, even though the hospital were writing to them and me telling me my plates were high. I was feeling very ill my stomach was swollen, I had dizzy spells and headaches. Finally I saw a new Dr as my arm went numb. I was sent straite to the cancer unit and told I had a rare type of incurable blood cancer. I've been on chemo tablets and other meds for the last five years, now they tell me my kidneys have been bad for 8 years. This isn't the first time they've done this to me. I have no faith in the N. H.S.
doctors dont study for 7 yrs anywhwere in britain,its 5 and then learning on the job on a trainee scheme.If you count all the postgrad training it can be 13 yrs to consultant level.
I was shocked to hear 7 years as well which is not true. Also in Canada, at the McMaster university, they train doctors in just 3 years but no one seems to be bothered about that but PAs who already must have a 3 year undergrad first and then 2 years MSc.
As an A&E Dr when patients are sent to A&E via GP surgery, I read notes prior to seeing them, and I see if it was a Dr, Physican associate, paramedic or Advanced Nurse practitioner who saw them. When I go to speak with the patients, they always start of with "My Dr, sent me in ". then i`ll ask are you sure it was a Dr, theyll say, yes, then I ask if they introduced their title, which they 90% of the time don`t, so patients assume theyre the Dr. Ive noticed this to eb the case with PAs and Paramedics working in GP surgeries. they never reveal their actual job role to patients. Whereas the Advanced practioners usually always do introduce themselves and when they send patients, they say the ANP sent me etc
I went to my GP and the one who saw me said hi I'm Debra and that was it. I went back and searched her and she turned out to be an ANP. So the moral of the story is, if one individual ANP, PA, doctor, HCA don't introduce themselves, it doesn't mean it's the whole profession to be blamed. In the NHS, regardless of your senior or junior role, you're trained to introduce yourself by name and role. It's not just Physician associates, like in my case, I'd seen an ANP. My NHS appointment stated GP appointment. The ANP did not take a history from me either and said I may just be having allergies until I told her a previous medical history regarding my eyes. Still did nothing for me and said to give it a few days if it got worse to return whereas I'd given it a few days before showing up. I asked whether I should go to eye casualty instead and she said actually that could be a good idea. Very short appointment and I gave her the idea I was thinking but from her end, no gain.
So AWFUL! MY DEEPEST SYMPATHY GOES OUT TO HER FAMILY, R.I.P BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTER EMILY. DOCTORS ARE AWFUL! I NEVER SEEN A DR FOR 8MTHS , THEY AKWAYS PUT ME IN TO SEE A NURSE😮
Everywhere else they are called physician assistants, they should be used in hospitals in wards to help consultants snd other senior doctors do that GP trainees are not used in hospitals for service and can get clinical experience in all specialities
Not ignorance, you need to have some common sense only to know that a two year clinical training can’t replace years of training and learning that doctors go through
A first year student nurse could have made the correct diagnosis... classic symptoms. Gross negligence and delusions of grandeur resulted in this beautiful, talented girl dying unnecessarily. So sorry for her lovely parents' loss. '
A good hospital based health care assistant could have diagnosed it, let alone a student nurse. Not saying all PA's are bad but this particular one was obviously dreadful & lacking knowledge. This is the problem when bits of paper (degrees etc) are given more credence than experience & commonsense. Better to train up experienced HCA's with no degree/PhD etc. as they've worked closely with Dr's and patients for years & see firsthand the symptoms etc
very very sad indeed, rip. but unfortunately even experienced drs/gp make mistakes all the time. bma are using this very sad case unfortunately for their own interests.
*alert, long message* I am utterly sorry for the loss and my condolences go out for Emily’s family. It’s true, ideally neither healthcare professionals should misdiagnose patients not just physician associates (PA). There are a lot of misdiagnosed cases amongst doctors, ANPs, clinical Paramendics, ACPs and list goes on and I’m unsure why their cases aren’t highlighted in the media as PA’s? Concerning the title ‘Physician Associates’ doesn’t sound grandiose at all but their title has been overly scrutinised. There are ‘Nurse Associate’ in the NHS and they don’t sound grandiose to Nurse. If concerned with PA’s title then why don’t they change the ‘Doctors’ title to ‘Physicians’ in the UK like the US? Similarly, change the titles of ‘Foundation’ doctors to something appropriate. I support to increase PA’s in the NHS similarly as other ACP, ANPs and relevant clinicians to diversify professionals in the NHS as it’s straining. Surely they all go through intense training prior qualifying. NHS is on the verge of crashing down due to increase demand of patients more than ever with less doctors. Putting pressure on doctors only being allowed to see patients in 10 mins appointment which is unrealistic, they should be granted more time like 15 minutes. PA’s are their own professions and shouldn’t be compared to doctors because the depth and breadth of medicine taught differs (doctors more depth and breadth) looking at their physician associate framework which clearly sets out in their matrix if read by doctors and others who aren’t familiar with them. PA’s are added clinicians to help work alongside doctors, they’re trained to see common conditions under supervision of doctors whereas doctors focusses on common and complex. I can see a lot of wry and hate for PA in social media and BMA and anti-PA’s similar as some doctors were with ANP’s were introduced (historically) in fear of replacing them. That will never happen as PAs work under their supervision similar to Nursing associate to nurse. It’s fair for GMC to regulate PA’s (like the way NMC regulated Nurse Associate) as they work closely with the each other not against each other. Finally, it’s unfair to say PA has only two years of intense training. There’s no consideration of their undergraduate status prior undertaking PA course they are e.g. Nurses, Paramedic, Pharmacist, biomedicine, Physiologist etc. Whereas doctors have five years of training without an undergraduate degree. PA’s don’t just qualify after passing their finals in medical school but goes through another set of intense exams of MCQs and OSCEs in Liverpool- the Spine building of Royal College of Physicians, called Physician Association National Exams (PANE) on passing PANE they qualify. Unlike Doctors, Nurses, Midwife and other professionals of being qualified right after their university exams. This begs the question, since PA’s are under supervision consultants/Seniors as similar as foundation doctors, then what support, supervision was provided to that PA by their GP who misdiagnosed Emily? Since PA’s can’t prescribe at present then which doctor accepted prescriptions? Did that doctor and PA discuss Emily’s case together? I agree that DVT or PE shouldn’t be missed by any clinicians.
The PA in question send Emily back out after 3 mins. Emily's been let down. Now that I know the symptoms, after losing Emily, I was able to spot the same symptoms with another family member from me and they were able to get help. Someone who is "trained" let my partner down en she passed away. How can you defend them?
@@keoniblockx399 I’m sorry for your loss but why hate a whole profession when it was one person that made that mistake. If a doctor had misdiagnosed Emily would you be blaming the whole profession and please don’t say a doctor wouldn’t missed this because they would had “more training”.
@@keoniblockx399It would seem that the whole team let Emily and your family down. The PA, the supervising Dr and the GP Practice. Also the NHS for allowing the situation where a PA can be diagnosing people without adequate supervision. I am sorry for your loss. condolences. RIP Emily.
Often I have been seen by a nurse, nowhere near a Dr's qualification and felt as though it was a wasted appointment. They had to go confer with a Dr and can't prescribe! And this is why I don't support the strikes
what you're saying doesn't make sense. GPs aren't striking.... it's junior doctors on the wards that are striking because they don't get paid enough for what they do. Their pay has not increased since 2008 yet cost of living has increased so much. So if you want to see more doctors you should support their strikes because they are providing a service which has a lot of responsibility and they are the backbone of. the NHS in the hospitals.
What have junior doctor strikes got to do with this video about Physician’s Associates who ARE NOT even qualified doctors. They are NOT the same, please do not equate them.
The amount of ignorance on this thread is terrifying. Classic media interference. I assume many of you have no idea how physician associates or assistants are trained nor are one. So please stop slandering the profession
We do. 2 years of 'medical model' training with an unrelated science undergrad where you need a 2:1, or even 2:2. I know an individual who did not get into medical school with her low grades, and is now working as a physician associate. Many of the PA courses have a 100% pass rate. No thank you.
May her soul RIP. Unfortunately, experience doctors and Gp make mistakes including missing DVT. I lost interest when I realised this tragic death is being used to orchestrate campaign of a selfish ambition by the BMA. The PA profession is safe, thriving and expanding in so many countries including US, Canada, Netherlands, New Zealand, Republic of Ireland, India, Israel, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Liberia, Ghana etc and not just in UK.
No they are not. PAs in USA are used as actual assistants and they are much better trained than UK PAs. GPs make mistakes too but thats an argument for better trained professionals not worse trained. Its like saying the majority of people involved in car crashses have valid drivers licenses...so lets just open the roads to people who haven't passed their driving test?
@goc6560. So sorry you lost interest. It is not this awful tragedy that has brought things to a head, it is other patients who have suffered. Yes, Drs and Physicians do make mistakes, but at least you stand a better chance of them getting it right. The Blood clot in the leg is one of the easier ones to get right, I very nearly died from a Pulmonary Embolism after the birth of my son, if it hadn’t been diagnosed correctly--- goodnight Vienna.
The only thing this story made me realize is how different PAs are treated in the UK vs US (and in a way similar because in the US we still have the smear campaign). Knowing what I know about the NHS, is that they are swamped especially specialty with long wait times and adequate trained and regulated PAs can actually help shortened it if they actually tried instead of running a smear campaign
@@justadude8369 the NHS certainly don't need poorly trained PAs but poorly trained PAs do not exist in the UK. The UK PAs are highly trained from what I've seen
I have just recovered from a blood clot. She had classic symptoms!! A simple ultrasound could have detected it and blood thinners prescribed to clear it. Such a sad story. My condolences to her family.
Has happened to me, thought I was seeing a doctor but turns out it was a Physian Associate who acted like a doctor and didn’t bother to correct me when I referred to them as Doctor… the NHS is totally down the drain, awful
I've also seen when PAs and ANPs say who they are but the patient still calls them doctor. As long as they've correctly introduced themselves, there's nothing they can do if the patient keeps referring to them as doctor.
You are lucky it wasn’t a doctor.
Utterly devastating just horrific rest in peace beautiful girl
So sad , may she find eternal peace. NHS needs serious help.
I saw a Physician's associate last week in a 'that day' appointment for my elderly mum. I wouldn't have known any difference as it wasn't mentioned, however it was labelled on the door which was open,so easily missed. I brought up his role in conversation but it wouldn't have been mentioned if l hadn't. I feel there is a problem with the name as it us to grand.
Terribly sad, thank goodness for her family making a change. RIP beautiful Emily. 💔
Heartbreaking. Emily is a beautiful lady . Horrible. I pray nobody else goes through this
It is like nurse assistant is not a nurse. Everybody has their role and position. Sorry for the family.
Sorry for your loss
I'm sending my prayers to and your family
Here in the US, PA's are Physician's Assistants. "Associate" sounds too much as though they are junior physicians, which they are not. Regardless of title, I think they are bad idea. Urgent Care locations here are all staffed by PA's now. The care is not at the same high level,as back when Urgent Care was staffed by MD's.
Disgraceful. Sorry for your loss. Tories would have us all dead for their profiteering.
They would you're absolutely right. But Labour will be worse, we are a one party state now thinly disguised as a democracy. 😢
@@silverorchid7194 Absolutely. The PA project is a bipartisan plan, Wes Streeting doubling med school places is pointless if Postgrad training posts are still at 2013 levels; leaving Doctors jobless after FY2 or ST3, leaving many to go abroad.
It's a sad story but the PA here could not have prescribed the medication as legally they can't. It had to have gone through a doctor who would have been the supervising doctor. For this to happen and twice clearly shows that the practice either does not have supervising doctors for the PAs they hire or the supervising doctor on the two occasions did not go through the list of patients the PA had seen on their clinic list for the day. If the supervising role was carried out at some point during the day, this would have been caught. The fact that the supervising doctor and GP practice is not being discussed screams red flags.
your argument is invalid. They could've told her to go to A&E but didn't. They are unsafe and unfit to look after patients.
@@ideeazzz I know, very unsafe that supervisor doctor was. They’re responsible for every patient in that clinic.
So sorry to hear this.
(Sighs in awake ex NHS worker at the suggestion that this could be just one rogue staff member) Still waiting for the media and public to wake up to the wolves in Sheeps clothing. This is the tip of the ice berg. Rest in peace to this poor woman. I know exactly what she went through. Not only because I witnessed it time and time again at work but because a nurse presenting as a doctor nearly killed me after I had the same symptoms and massive clots. RIP
This is becoming, greatly concerning!
Concerned for the Qualified Doctors and patients, even a Staff Nurse or Registered Nurse, would be able to Diagnose a pain, in calf. Or ankle Or behind knee.. !
A first year med student could have diagnosed this - especially if she was on birth control it's a massive risk factor for clots.
Awe, so sorry, condolences. What a beautiful young woman. Am sure due to her age they overlooked the bloodclot, this happens often. True, The GP could of made the same mistake. Here in the US, a PA is used more and more all the time. Your lucky to see the Dr.
Nothing to do with age
They'll be giving us appointments with the receptionists next. Some of them already think they are doctors
the GP does not go into the room with the PA,they review certain patients afterward at the PA request if they need it.Its up to the GP to oversee the PA,its that practice that should be questioned more than the PA here.
That's exactly what I thought too. Although it isn't at the PA's request, the supervising doctor due to their experience when reviewing each patient seen by a PA can do so quickly depending on the patient's history and presenting complaint. Every supervising doctor should still go through the list of patients seen by the PA, of course with experienced PAs, and how long the doctor has supervised the PA.
I agree that the supervising doctor who's name would be on the prescription for this patient and the GP practice have never been called to question which I find quite fishy.
" help patients decide their treatment plans"...scary times
My heart goes to this family, it happened to me over 6 years to seeva GP with abdominal pain 4 months prior to my diagnosis with life threatening terminal cancer, each day is a bonus for me, I hope and pray it doesn't happen to others.
In the USA their call Nurse Practitioner. If they want to give the patient a prescription the doctor has to approve it. Doctor reviews the Nurse Practitioner’s patient diagnosis
We have nurse practitioners in the uk as well, physician associates are something different and no where near the level of training and qualifications that a practice nurse has
False. In the US, there are nurse practitioners and physician assistants which are different than how they practice in the UK. Please don't spread false information that's damaging to my profession
Totally wrong !
Wrong and I paid 100 Dollars and this woman wheeled out and diagnosed me and later too I found out she's wasn't a " Doctor " but one of these Practioners
They're trying to replace doctors with Nurse Practioners in the U.S. too, and the NP's act like doctors and don't correct the impression with the patients.
Do people know a health practitioner has taken over from a nurse in a doctors surgery
I was 17 working in a dr’s surgery..
If someone requested a prescription for routine stuff
I WOULD PRESCRiBE IT.. the dose as well..
After the morning surgery I would hand the dr a stack to sign..
And he would check them………
Your not safe.
Always check.
My appendix ruptured in 2018 after I was sent home with gaviscon by a practitioner after a few days of like a trapped wind feeling but high up below my stomach. Hadn’t eaten or passed anything in a few days either.. a day or 2 later it ruptured 🤷
About time Ms Reid showed more compassion. They are talking as though it’s nothing bad. The attitude now is shameful. This ghastly programme has created so much toxicity. It should be axed. Ms Reid on the comfortable gravy train far too long. She don’t care she just goes private for her and her boys.
PAs are NOT worth 44-53k/year for a 37.5hr work week (compared to FY1s on ~33-34k for a 48hr week plus unpaid overtime, team members who are actually useful and can prescribe and order scans, unlike PAs). And yes PAs are replacing doctors.
The east England deanery has 99 potential FY1s on a waiting list as they "don't have enough money" for those places. Yet they have money for PA "foundation trainees", eh?
Furthermore, ARRS incentivises the replacement of Doctors with PAs in primary care. I have worked with PAs on many occasions over a wide variety of hospital settings; they double or triple my workload. They get paid more than ST2s (some more than ST3/IMT3 registrars!!) for equivalent base hours, and we would be better served with 1) More ST1-ST8 posts 2)More consultant posts, and 3) Band 4 Doctor's assistants. The PA role is not cost effective and needs to be scrapped.
Queensland scrapped the role after a cohort went through "PA school". Why can't we? The British public deserve better.
We have an oversubscription to ST1 and ST4 training posts despite only ~14% of FY2s directly applying for training post F2... don't complain when Doctors leave the UK if they can't get a job...
We was ignored for a year My two-year-old was suffering, debilitating, headaches, most mornings, she actually hadn’t even turned two, and it started. Just kept being told toddlers don’t get headaches she had a CT scan we were told it was all clear. Because that was reported clear for the next year, we wasjust ignored And dismissed every time. Until I’ve got a second opinion via a different route. Discovered a brain tumour. Due to the delay, she’s now quadriplegic as a tracheostomy ventilator at home. Turns out it was on the CT scan all along!
That is awful, so sorry you have been let down as bad as this 😢
PA's dont get into the PA course without a previous full undergraduate/masters degree in science ect. it is not only 2 years.
Very true, it is either they do the MSc PA course or they do the undergraduate PA course which is 4 years same as graduate medicine which is 4 years.
How do I know if I am seeing an associate or Doctor?
The best way is to just ask the person you are seeing, or the receptionist at the point of booking or arriving for your appointment. A patient has the right to choose who they see.
Just ask them. I lost Emily because of not knowing this. Stand your ground and ask for a doctor. I wish we could've done the same
By law they have to wear a name tag ID and state what they are. Listen, Don't assume, which most peope do.
@@keoniblockx399 I'm sorry for your loss Keoni. I hope you stay strong and keep campaigning. You will prevent the loss of lives in the future.
Associates are more intelligent.
Do you know how many doctors missed Diagnose in 1 year.
Exactly, if Dr can miss a diagnosis, imagine how many can a physician associate miss?
@@julesxx23 Actually that's not true. Your question made me think of an excellent PA and just average doctor and vice versa so no, it doesn't work like that. You've gotta have a brain to go through the PA course and a lot of people with first class degrees do the course as it's not for the faint hearted and I've met a lot of PAs who just prefer the work life balance of the profession and do not actually want to be doctors.
@@julesxx23 Less.
Simply put... this is extremely tragic... most of us have spoken to terrible doctors/gps that were unable to diagnose your illness..
PA need more scrutiny in their job role.
Ive met two PAs, two different visits, and both spoke to a senior doctor before I left the surgery..
If it were bad, we'd hear 100s of these story.
Change is definitely needed and job role clearly identified with limitations etc.
The GP here is missing the point,PAs are not created to do a consultants job,junior docs do not even do that,they are to do more routine cases and follow up of diagnosed patients in adition to protocol driven defined patient cohorts.The ignorance here is astounding.Where on earth did they get the idea that indivual practises can regulate any profession,she is referring to scope of practice which the GMC will set by year end when they take over regulation.
Very true
its not a physicians associate as the Mother said,its a physician associate as in they dont belong to the physician.They are scapegoating the profession since lots of patients die under doctors care and have been for decades.That practice,owned by consultant GPs had a responsibilty to make it clear who the patient was seeing at the reception stage and not allow prescibing in addition to overseeing their PA.
I agree with you on this too.
I don’t understand how this is relieving doctors!!
I was going to my Dr for 2 years telling them I had cancer, they told me it was depression, even though the hospital were writing to them and me telling me my plates were high. I was feeling very ill my stomach was swollen, I had dizzy spells and headaches. Finally I saw a new Dr as my arm went numb. I was sent straite to the cancer unit and told I had a rare type of incurable blood cancer. I've been on chemo tablets and other meds for the last five years, now they tell me my kidneys have been bad for 8 years. This isn't the first time they've done this to me. I have no faith in the N. H.S.
Sad to hear, praying for you massively . Stay positive and I wish you loads of happiness and health💕
doctors dont study for 7 yrs anywhwere in britain,its 5 and then learning on the job on a trainee scheme.If you count all the postgrad training it can be 13 yrs to consultant level.
I was shocked to hear 7 years as well which is not true. Also in Canada, at the McMaster university, they train doctors in just 3 years but no one seems to be bothered about that but PAs who already must have a 3 year undergrad first and then 2 years MSc.
As an A&E Dr when patients are sent to A&E via GP surgery, I read notes prior to seeing them, and I see if it was a Dr, Physican associate, paramedic or Advanced Nurse practitioner who saw them. When I go to speak with the patients, they always start of with "My Dr, sent me in ". then i`ll ask are you sure it was a Dr, theyll say, yes, then I ask if they introduced their title, which they 90% of the time don`t, so patients assume theyre the Dr. Ive noticed this to eb the case with PAs and Paramedics working in GP surgeries. they never reveal their actual job role to patients. Whereas the Advanced practioners usually always do introduce themselves and when they send patients, they say the ANP sent me etc
I went to my GP and the one who saw me said hi I'm Debra and that was it. I went back and searched her and she turned out to be an ANP. So the moral of the story is, if one individual ANP, PA, doctor, HCA don't introduce themselves, it doesn't mean it's the whole profession to be blamed. In the NHS, regardless of your senior or junior role, you're trained to introduce yourself by name and role. It's not just Physician associates, like in my case, I'd seen an ANP. My NHS appointment stated GP appointment. The ANP did not take a history from me either and said I may just be having allergies until I told her a previous medical history regarding my eyes. Still did nothing for me and said to give it a few days if it got worse to return whereas I'd given it a few days before showing up. I asked whether I should go to eye casualty instead and she said actually that could be a good idea. Very short appointment and I gave her the idea I was thinking but from her end, no gain.
Shameful that the NHS is lowering standards to save costs. Ironically PAs will cost far more than they will save through litigation payouts.
Doctors medical errors cost us billions already.
@@taffyterrier So the solution is to make it even more billions by hiring less trained, poorly educated knock offs instead? Got it.
What’s the signs of a blood clot?
That’s the thing with the NHS, when your young and beautiful looking they won’t take you seriously. Sorry darling RIP sweet one 🕊️
So AWFUL!
MY DEEPEST SYMPATHY GOES OUT TO HER FAMILY, R.I.P BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTER EMILY.
DOCTORS ARE AWFUL!
I NEVER SEEN A DR FOR 8MTHS , THEY AKWAYS PUT ME IN TO SEE A NURSE😮
Everywhere else they are called physician assistants, they should be used in hospitals in wards to help consultants snd other senior doctors do that GP trainees are not used in hospitals for service and can get clinical experience in all specialities
If you don't know how physician assistants are actually trained, please don't spread ignorance. Thank you
Not ignorance, you need to have some common sense only to know that a two year clinical training can’t replace years of training and learning that doctors go through
A first year student nurse could have made the correct diagnosis... classic symptoms. Gross negligence and delusions of grandeur resulted in this beautiful, talented girl dying unnecessarily. So sorry for her lovely parents' loss.
'
History of unilateral leg swelling presenting with new onset chest pain screams PE. Unbelievable.
A good hospital based health care assistant could have diagnosed it, let alone a student nurse. Not saying all PA's are bad but this particular one was obviously dreadful & lacking knowledge.
This is the problem when bits of paper (degrees etc) are given more credence than experience & commonsense.
Better to train up experienced HCA's with no degree/PhD etc. as they've worked closely with Dr's and patients for years & see firsthand the symptoms etc
🙏🙏🙏
💔
very very sad indeed, rip.
but unfortunately even experienced drs/gp make mistakes all the time. bma are using this very sad case unfortunately for their own interests.
I disagree, these were classical symptoms even a 5th year medical student would have picked up on
@@H20x3 Im a second year nursing student and even I have picked it up in a&e before on placement.
*alert, long message*
I am utterly sorry for the loss and my condolences go out for Emily’s family. It’s true, ideally neither healthcare professionals should misdiagnose patients not just physician associates (PA). There are a lot of misdiagnosed cases amongst doctors, ANPs, clinical Paramendics, ACPs and list goes on and I’m unsure why their cases aren’t highlighted in the media as PA’s?
Concerning the title ‘Physician Associates’ doesn’t sound grandiose at all but their title has been overly scrutinised. There are ‘Nurse Associate’ in the NHS and they don’t sound grandiose to Nurse. If concerned with PA’s title then why don’t they change the ‘Doctors’ title to ‘Physicians’ in the UK like the US? Similarly, change the titles of ‘Foundation’ doctors to something appropriate.
I support to increase PA’s in the NHS similarly as other ACP, ANPs and relevant clinicians to diversify professionals in the NHS as it’s straining. Surely they all go through intense training prior qualifying. NHS is on the verge of crashing down due to increase demand of patients more than ever with less doctors. Putting pressure on doctors only being allowed to see patients in 10 mins appointment which is unrealistic, they should be granted more time like 15 minutes.
PA’s are their own professions and shouldn’t be compared to doctors because the depth and breadth of medicine taught differs (doctors more depth and breadth) looking at their physician associate framework which clearly sets out in their matrix if read by doctors and others who aren’t familiar with them. PA’s are added clinicians to help work alongside doctors, they’re trained to see common conditions under supervision of doctors whereas doctors focusses on common and complex.
I can see a lot of wry and hate for PA in social media and BMA and anti-PA’s similar as some doctors were with ANP’s were introduced (historically) in fear of replacing them. That will never happen as PAs work under their supervision similar to Nursing associate to nurse. It’s fair for GMC to regulate PA’s (like the way NMC regulated Nurse Associate) as they work closely with the each other not against each other.
Finally, it’s unfair to say PA has only two years of intense training. There’s no consideration of their undergraduate status prior undertaking PA course they are e.g. Nurses, Paramedic, Pharmacist, biomedicine, Physiologist etc. Whereas doctors have five years of training without an undergraduate degree. PA’s don’t just qualify after passing their finals in medical school but goes through another set of intense exams of MCQs and OSCEs in Liverpool- the Spine building of Royal College of Physicians, called Physician Association National Exams (PANE) on passing PANE they qualify. Unlike Doctors, Nurses, Midwife and other professionals of being qualified right after their university exams.
This begs the question, since PA’s are under supervision consultants/Seniors as similar as foundation doctors, then what support, supervision was provided to that PA by their GP who misdiagnosed Emily? Since PA’s can’t prescribe at present then which doctor accepted prescriptions? Did that doctor and PA discuss Emily’s case together? I agree that DVT or PE shouldn’t be missed by any clinicians.
Thank you for your message. This report is misleading.. It takes 5 years to become a PA..
The PA in question send Emily back out after 3 mins. Emily's been let down.
Now that I know the symptoms, after losing Emily, I was able to spot the same symptoms with another family member from me and they were able to get help.
Someone who is "trained" let my partner down en she passed away. How can you defend them?
@@keoniblockx399 I’m sorry for your loss but why hate a whole profession when it was one person that made that mistake. If a doctor had misdiagnosed Emily would you be blaming the whole profession and please don’t say a doctor wouldn’t missed this because they would had “more training”.
@@keoniblockx399It would seem that the whole team let Emily and your family down. The PA, the supervising Dr and the GP Practice. Also the NHS for allowing the situation where a PA can be diagnosing people without adequate supervision. I am sorry for your loss. condolences. RIP Emily.
@@jujutrini8412 thank you x
Vaccine injury?
Often I have been seen by a nurse, nowhere near a Dr's qualification and felt as though it was a wasted appointment. They had to go confer with a Dr and can't prescribe!
And this is why I don't support the strikes
At least they go and talk to the Doctor which is safe!
what you're saying doesn't make sense. GPs aren't striking.... it's junior doctors on the wards that are striking because they don't get paid enough for what they do. Their pay has not increased since 2008 yet cost of living has increased so much. So if you want to see more doctors you should support their strikes because they are providing a service which has a lot of responsibility and they are the backbone of. the NHS in the hospitals.
What have junior doctor strikes got to do with this video about Physician’s Associates who ARE NOT even qualified doctors. They are NOT the same, please do not equate them.
The amount of ignorance on this thread is terrifying. Classic media interference. I assume many of you have no idea how physician associates or assistants are trained nor are one. So please stop slandering the profession
We do. 2 years of 'medical model' training with an unrelated science undergrad where you need a 2:1, or even 2:2. I know an individual who did not get into medical school with her low grades, and is now working as a physician associate. Many of the PA courses have a 100% pass rate. No thank you.
May her soul RIP.
Unfortunately, experience doctors and Gp make mistakes including missing DVT. I lost interest when I realised this tragic death is being used to orchestrate campaign of a selfish ambition by the BMA. The PA profession is safe, thriving and expanding in so many countries including US, Canada, Netherlands, New Zealand, Republic of Ireland, India, Israel, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Liberia, Ghana etc and not just in UK.
No they are not. PAs in USA are used as actual assistants and they are much better trained than UK PAs. GPs make mistakes too but thats an argument for better trained professionals not worse trained. Its like saying the majority of people involved in car crashses have valid drivers licenses...so lets just open the roads to people who haven't passed their driving test?
@goc6560. So sorry you lost interest. It is not this awful tragedy that has brought things to a head, it is other patients who have suffered. Yes, Drs and Physicians do make mistakes, but at least you stand a better chance of them getting it right. The Blood clot in the leg is one of the easier ones to get right, I very nearly died from a Pulmonary Embolism after the birth of my son, if it hadn’t been diagnosed correctly--- goodnight Vienna.
The only thing this story made me realize is how different PAs are treated in the UK vs
US (and in a way similar because in the US we still have the smear campaign). Knowing what I know about the NHS, is that they are swamped especially specialty with long wait times and adequate trained and regulated PAs can actually help shortened it if they actually tried instead of running a smear campaign
@@KSMaxiefan01 Why not hire more doctors? We dont need poorly trained PAs diluting standards in medical care. Leave it to the professionals.
@@justadude8369 the NHS certainly don't need poorly trained PAs but poorly trained PAs do not exist in the UK. The UK PAs are highly trained from what I've seen
in the US, GPs are just as dumb
What has this got to do with a video about a Physician’s associate, they ARE NOT GP’s
This is being going on for years....... this isn't new......... it's not even news.............