Is Poverty the New Minimalism?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Joshua and Ryan discuss how the principles of minimalism are effective no matter a person's financial means. Watch “Maximal” episodes of The Minimalists Private Podcast exclusively at / theminimalists
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I discovered minimalism when I was quite poor. It helped me focussing on the important things, what I really need and what makes me happy. It helped spending the little money that I had more intentionally and more effective. I felt a lot less helpless and more in control, and I actually was. "I can't afford it, but I don't want it anyway" is much better than just "I can't afford it".
Same! Right now i am not earning a lot of money. Just enough to get by but my minimalist lifestyle has helped me a lot to focus on whats important. I dont care if dont have new things. I have what i need, im grateful for that and im glad i can eat lol.
Minimalism is a conscious choice. Poverty isn't, necessarily.
I agree
I've slipped into poverty recently, but was already a minimalist. The way I see it, I'm only lacking building a savings account right now. As long as my basic living expenses are paid, I'm content. I know this situation won't last forever. In the meantime, I am not lacking "things." Does that make sense? I guess I'm trying to say I am currently both: financially poor and a minimalist. Just my two cents.
It really makes sense to me, yes. You aren't poor just because you aren't wealthy. A minimalist understands value and worth. Hope things get easier for you.
Poverty is the state of NOT being able to meet basic living expenses. You haven't "slipped into poverty," and describing a lack of excess as such is incredibly ignorant.
Hearing that you are content with your basic needs being met and you are able to perceive that financial situations can improve over time (being hopeful) is great. It sounds to me like you have a good perspective and that minimalism with contentment has been achieved by you.
Yep. I’m not poor, but minimalism has shown me that I don’t need much more than I already have. This has given me some extra resources that I have been able to help others. It’s great to be able to become someone who is able to help meet needs.
I just cannot express the joy i get out of living a minimalist life
So much peace less procrastination
Love u josh and ryan thanks for the amazing content
I want to say something and I really hope it isn't taken in a different way as it's intended. I LOVE how 'normal' you both are, but I really enjoy watching Ryan in the way that he is so aware of his own personal hang ups and his willingness to grow and change. He knows he is not perfect and is always facing his hang ups, assumptions etc to become a better, more well rounded person. In a day and age where people seem to be so obsessed with putting on a facade to make it look like they have everything together, I find it really inspiring. You always have to work on yourself, whoever you are, you can always improve. It just makes you all the more real and relatable. Keep going guys, you're doing so much good for so many people. I hope you're both finding time to look after yourselves and that your families are happy and healthy.x
Intoxicating to listen to. Following the path you guys have been on/are going on is wonderful, I'm glad I found you, it truly is life changing stuff.
Out of "poverty" I used minimalism as a coping strategy and developed a love of less. This has lead me down a path where I have a much greater appreciation for people than things. I often found myself, or sought out people (friends) of a different social "class" to understand how to save/spend money. I'm grateful that I have developed a love and understanding of purchasing assets at a very early age.
"Giving a charitable view" even to someone who has lashed out at you . Will now become part of my internal dialogue. Thank you.
Regardless of how much money ones has, minimalism has the potential to improve the quality of one's life because it simply gives you a sense of control over your life and resources. It's a way of leading a disciplined life.
totally agree. simplified, minimal living does take discipline and discipline influences all faucets of life.
I often wondered if people who lived in the Middle Ages who took vows of poverty after going into a monastery or a nunnery could be considered minimalist I think they gave up their possessions to not have “things” distract them from their spiritual purpose
I see some similarities with modern minimalists
Yeah
Yeah and there's a christian wing of minimalism on youtube. It sits very well with the religion, many religions actually.
@@raapyna8544 sounds really interesting! Can you recommend a channel for that (: ?
@@jer0en205 Hi! I like Joshua Becker's content.
@@raapyna8544 thanks a lot (:
I really think the person did not listen to your conversation and just randomly tweeted or hated. I loved how you answered the question in a polite and professional manner. MInimalism is about being richer and more intentional with less!
First off it’s a state of mind. Containerized by labeling and societal definition upon which one “makes money” , “ time used to produce money and things” , and the balance of the consumer costs to income ratio for cost of living. Yes, love exactly what you shared with us. To me poverty means focusing on “lack”...lack of food, clothing, shelter and lifestyle goods. A minimalist focuses on the intentional use and need for everything that comes into ones life. Also want to note that poverty is part of a system that is co-dependent. The need and expectations that they are a victim of circumstances and need support and assistance somehow someway. Minimalist are self sufficient and stand up for themselves and be in communities and network for exchanges of goods, services and support that benefits all parties involved. The good news is both sides can know how each feels in a way. The good news is this is a learning experience so that if one was in a poverty state can look at what IS intention, what IS important and their personal values. A minimalist can learn about the system that was created, what is truly important to poverty conscious peoples, and even “employ” those to help them learn to break free! Once again it’s a state of mind.....we all can learn something from it.
Absolutely spot on. This reminds me of a wonderfully kind family who run a basic campsite in a small village in Italy that I regularly visit.
There's no village square for kids to play in - kick a football, ride their bikes etc. so the campsite has become the hub of thr community. For example, under the gazeebo at the campsite is a cupboard with crayons, paints, drawing paper, cardboards, glues etc. and after school the local kids gather there and get creative. Its so wonderfully simple - no smartphones - just creativity and laughter.
Then every once in a while, the family invites the local community over for a feast. The family can't afford to feed everyone, so the locals contribute their particular homegrown produce. For example, the guy I was sat next to made the wine, the guy opposite provided the wild boar meat he'd hunted in the forest, the lady next to him had chickens whose eggs made the pasta, her sister had a vegetable patch and made the pasta sauce etc etc. etc. I did the washing up as my contribution!
In conversation with the daughte/co-manager of the owner of the campsite, she said she and her husband were glad to be poor, as it meant they "have no things, and so we have nothing to lose."
What a wonderful experience and the family from Italy understands the joy of being human and sharing.
Ryan was spot on about poor people collecting free stuff. Before my journey I had a lot of free samples and bought many items from the clearance racks. To this day I still have to stop myself from taking those items home with me.
Awesome conversation about bringing clarification between poverty and minimalism. The comment regarding stewardship of resources stands out as I experienced and experience that daily.And...you would not be where you are now if you did not go thru what you had survived.
You can be a miljonair and stil be a minimalist.
Yes! What a great freedom that is :)
Agree. Simply tired of materialistic life
millionaire
In fact, some who have been always been minimalists have it made, as they do not get overwhelmed with the purchasing of "stuff" and use what they have to invest financially or do things like traveling and such. Life is to be enjoyed.
You wanna said "you can be a millionair and still be a poor."
as a teenager practicing minimalism, I am quite facing many challenges like peer pressure from the social media and some stuff you see on the internet.
I realized minimalism is really challenging and everytime you win over the pressure, you benefit from it in the long run.
Ex: Deleting Social Media platforms
- not posting what i'm doing and stuff i have or where i am on Instagram stories and facebook mydays.
I do feel kind of an inner conflict opposing my will of feeling aestheticly rich (because I grew up in a modest, sometimes poor family) and my will of a simplified environment to get rid of the clutter that triggers anxiety for me. It is a journey to consciously transform my thoughts about material possession. I appreciate this topic! Keep up the good work, guys! Hugs from Québec, Canada.
It would seem like the combination of minimal but aesthetically beautiful items would be your balanced solution. You can still have a great sense of quality of goods, but just keep them to a minimal usable level (purpose driven).
Fair play for taking on this question. Well played.
I really appreciate how you tackled this, notably how Ryan framed how the question made him feel (because, in my opinion, it is an accusatory / inflammatory question). Thanks again, fellas!
Minimalism and Frugal living are different never get confused with them.
Happiness is influenced by external fleeting factors; Joy exists & emerges internally as our state of being.
Mag Ma very true, I’m still searching
It baffles me sometimes on social media sites when people ask is this ok? Minimalism to me isn't a number or the way your house looks, it's understanding contentment with what you have not the continued search grasping for more. You guys helped me begin my journey and for that I am thankful XXX Thanks again xxx
I really liked this video because you talk about something I've had in mind for some time. Poverty is a social and economic issue that does not depend on you or is not your choice. Minimalism is a lifestyle with all the elements you add: not only stuff but mindset and relations, etc, that is still a choice.
According to the Maslow piramid, poor people would be at the base, where they cannot be intentional about their consumption because their main need would be good or shelter or clothes. Minimalist focus on the top of it: mindset, goals, etc.
I am a minimalist that lives in South America, and I love it. But reality is that for people is super complicated understand or live minimalism because realities are different. For start minimalism is the western answer for overconsumption in that society. Here, even though I still believe and agree that minimalism would be a great answer for poor people to live better, is still hard for people to create when they are still looking for basic needs.
I find interesting the fact that in America, poverty is confused with minimalism. Great topic!
Talking about Marie Kondo we often forget that she's Japanese, in Japanese culture this all make sense. It is not an American or European women saying these things. Japanese culture is very different from our own. We watch it with western eyes and we transform it in a show. Thank you for this content by the way, I agree with the difference poor/minimalist.
Minimalism is a choice, poverty isn’t.
I really appreciate your intentionality with language and your deliberateness of thought. You treat words with a level of respect appropriate to the currency (def'n: medium of exchange) that they really are. And you weigh your thoughts against the background and context that informs them in a sincere effort to understand them. I also love the idea of 'giving a charitable view' to those who present ideas and values that seem to challenge our own. Entering a conversation with a spirit of 'something to learn' rather than 'something to prove' provides a space for generative ideas. We don't have to leave the conversation having compromised our own values, but will certainly have a better understanding of what other values exist in the people around us. Thank you for the wonderful content on your channel.
Poverty is a state of being. Minimalism is a behavior. One leaves you with no or few choices, the other opens up all possible choices. One leaves you worthless (fiscally), the other leaves you worthy.
Amazing comments and insight. I came from a very poor family myself and this segment really resonated with me.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Once you have been through extreme poverty it helps you to see that the value of "non-material" things are more precious than material goods. We need certain comforts but if the balance is tipped to over excessive amounts we become "impoverished in a different way". I got a lot out of this video too.
I would not say I am unprivileged but I do come from a middle class setting and I have seen my parents struggle with money. Now I am not a minimalist or anything close to that (yet), but not having enough has made me realize the vale of what I have and what value it brings to me. So poverty may not be the new minimalism, but poverty or just having experienced not having enough resources in your life could potentially help you later in your life if you opt for a minimalist lifestyle.
But I do realize minimalism is a choice and poverty is not. I could also think of a case where someone comes from an unprivileged background craving for stuff in life. Just in my case, my background has helped me understand what matters in life (mostly, I still want to buy a mini freezer for my bedroom even though I know its useless :D)
Middle class are poor people with a job.
@@acajudi100 not to anyone who's ever known poor people. Or anyone with more basic sense than snobbery.
You're telling on yourself.
I’m not a minimalist, but I could be. I love the idea. I own my home outright, but I work by the hour. I’m an electrician so I earn a fair wage. But what happens when my bad back prevents me from earning? What happens when I’m older and I have to start repairing my house? I just spent a couple thousand dollars repairing water damage. How will I do that when I’m 65? Will the thing that most people long to attain lead me into poverty? Is this even related to the topic? I guess the question I’m trying to ask people is, is your lifestyle sustainable, and could you survive living in poverty? What will we do when our means come to an end? I feel like I’m rambling but I hope someone gets my point.
Financial poverty can be devastating to one's life, but dignity can be upheld whether you are rich or poor. I have experienced great hardships in my life and understand that material goods for comfort and necessity are important, but the gathering of too many possessions can be burdensome to one's life. For that reason I am choosing to simplify and reduce clutter, both materially and psychologically. Thanks for the video you produced and for your insights, much appreciated. Keep healthy. :-)
People who can't afford a home to live in or to buy things they need would naturally also be minimalists, but not by choice. Someone else may also be "homeless" and live out of a backpack, but they have plenty of money to buy things they need, travel the world and stay in hotels. So they are minimalists by choice.
And yeah I know people who are always telling me they dont have enough money to afford their rent, but they seem to have heaps of stuff, their kids have the latest phones and video games, houses jam packed with toys and junk. I certainly dont live in poverty, but I earn what would be considered a low wage in my part of the world. Yet i am able to buy my own apartment and the things I need because I am very careful with my spending. So i guess its also about how you define "poverty."
Krissy K You don't know how those people you're talking about acquired that stuff, though. All of it may've been gifted to them by others with means. IMO, just because someone is poor/impoverished doesn't mean they shouldn't have things that make them happy or add value to their lives.
I've been thinking about this recently because we've been discussing expences and freeing some people from expences in scouting. People have different incomes, expences and ways to use their money and time, so it's not simple how you define who is poor or entitled to support and who isn't. It's possible that some families who find it difficult to pay for some hobby expenses are not being the most intentional about their resources. But I believe in meeting people where they are and doing what you reasonably can to be helpful to them. This does not require receipts or justifying why you can't pay for something. It only requires good connections to the families and trust that the ask is genuine. People very rarely lie that they're struggling to pay. And the risk is smaller than the benefits that come from including more people by being more considerate.
Of course, in our activities, once the kids are doing them, it's always possible to teach intentionality and resourcefulness that will become useful when the kids are older and in charge of their own money and household, group or event. I've learned many things in scouting about making cheap healthy meals, repurposing what I already have, a practical small wardrobe, and so much more. It's helpful for me personally as a young adult without much money, and for my troop and scouting community in the way, that they don't have to provide so much for me (as they possibly had to, had I not learned these things), and in the way that I'm now participating in planning our events in an intentional and resourceful way and teaching it to others.
Minute 7:45 he makes eye opening statement for me....intentional with our time and resources !
Your video crossed my life path just at the right time. Meditating on the word "intentional." Liked and subscribed, thank you!
Minimalism is the conscious decision of not striving for possessions. You can be poor or rich and be minimalist. Money is quite irrelevant. I wonder if you chose this title to pick up a fight. 😛 You can be both poor and minimalist at the same time and it doesn't take the value away from your minimalism. Minimalism is smart, regardless of your wealth or social status. In fact, I would like to dismantle the idea that some sort of level of income gives your decisions more power or relevance. There are people who grow their own food and use actual money for only a portion of things, and I think that lifestyle is very dignified too. And there are many other ways in which a person has power or influence, that are not directly linked to income: for example being a figure in your community, an active member of society, a parent, a teacher etc.
Edit: This is what you get for typing before watching, a misunderstanding. :D I didn't remember you answer questions, it's been a while since I've watched you. I loved the video!
Minimalism, honestly checking your consumerism and materialism, can be a huge tool for those in poverty and debt to direct them towards getting out. Like they said some poor people have so many objects for various reasons (my family was the same in many ways but they luckily still kept mindfully frugal, I saw areas even worse than mine where I didn't understand how they had more toys than me scattered through the yard or their parents a nicer car, all choices) and many are unnecessary but still saved and paid for while they go into debt. There is most definitely a societal materialism norm that has become intertwined with quality of life.
Very meaningful discussion, love you guys 😊
Poverty often relates to not earning a lot, minimalism often relates to not spending a lot (or spending intentionally)
Interesting.
My old boss is a multi millionaire. Tons of money.
Nothing superfluous in his life. He enjoys his time. That's why he maneuvered his money to be able to live the life he wanted.
No clutter. Very clean. I strive to be like him every day.
I also grew up incredibly poor yet our house at times was a potential candidate for hoarders. The bulk of it was either found or gifted. I definitely had more stuff then than I do now that I qualify as, what I would consider, middle class.
with poverty it does sometimes lead to hoarding, it is that sense of scarcity that makes people keep things they really will never use. I can relate to that whole cycle. Finding out that material goods will never fill that void was a big "eureka moment for me", getting the balance right takes time.
I don't think you should be offended. The very reason for intentional would be how to use what little money you have to good use. You don't need everything. Many of us can not afford some things but if you play it right you get basic needs met and no one is the wiser that you can not afford as much as them.
What is poverty? To even understand minimalism requires a whole lotta knowledge and culture. It also takes a healthy community. Minimalism is not poverty. Minimalism is a way of life to be understood and then lived.
Thanks for discussing this. The person who asked this clearly hasn't understood that minimalism is living a meaningful life.
I’m really looking forward to your new book coming out 🤓
I recently got on tiktok (mistake), and this appears to be a common theme. Stating minimalism is poverty or it is classist?
I’m glad you all touched on this topic.
When I heard about minimalism I was confused between minimalism and essentialism too ..now I understand the difference
I looked up essentialism...I see the difference too. thanks.
I think minimalism is the conscious choice of living the way you want and having the resources you think will add value to your life. Poverty is the path you get onto when you can't actually get to any of those resources nor it is a choice. It's more the consequence of multiple choices.
It’s important we don’t forget that a person in poverty does not have the comfort and mental health stability a person who chooses to be a minimalist has. The choice of being a minimalist on its own is an elitist life style because even this “education” and the “information” is not available to the poor. Specially when people in poverty can’t have a “peaceful” mentality or a “less us more” mentality when they have food and house insecurity.
Joshua, I wonder why you defined "joy" so narrowly in this podcast excerpt. My experience of joy arises even more often in solitude than in the company of others and is often spontaneous and uncaused, whereas you said here that it only arises from interaction with others. This struck me as a very puzzling thing for a self-described extreme introvert to say. Do you not frequently experience joy arising for no reason at all and irrespective of context? (This sort of "uncaused joy" has long been reported also as one side effect of meditation and inquiry practices that untie one's inner knots.) Curious, I looked in Merriam-Webster dictionary to check their definition of joy against my understanding of the word and found perfect accord (in all three senses of "entry 1 of 2" for that word, at various times). Perhaps you meant to define it more narrowly only for yourself and not in the experience of others, as it sounded. Also, perhaps you qualify this statement further in the full episode. Regardless, I enjoyed your description of "steel man"-ning your argument, T.K. Coleman style. On the broader topic, I would say that financial poverty, in the sense of a low income, can be voluntary or involuntary, while minimalism refers to intentional lifestyle.
Thank-you Patreons.
I lived in poverty but became a minimalist at 15. I worked HARD, like beyond what anyone with a normal life could understand. I never cared that someone didn't like me because I never valued things. I value my life, as in being able to have food to eat, a roof, warm room to sleep in. I saved for 15 years, working multiple jobs and can finally say, I am out of poverty and still a minimalist. It's not a money thing. Minimalism is a choice while poverty is not. But you can change all things. It's not easy, but you can. Minimalism ebbs and flows no matter where you are life.
Sooo I really dig the comment is the question accusational. Like the super emotional response to the question in print is a reaction that comes from within. Like he's right It could be someone making a rethorical accusational remark on twitter but he doesn't know that it might not be. Is it a reaction to the twitter medium or the question. But then the attitude don't let us be presumtional let's be charitable attitude .. This could be an honest question from someone really beginning their minimalism journey. I also thought it was interesting that the presumption if your a patreon user or a donator you wouldn't ask this question. Is that a bit judgmental an attitude? Like paid for questions are higher quality? I love that they revisit it near the end and expand on the patreon users and how they respect all their listeners and their questions. Love these shows.
i don't pay to listen but i know Minimalism is a choice, Poverty is NOT. i've been on both sides and i'm happy i have less stuff but know if i need ANYTHING, i can go get it.
Poor or rich?.....Of spirit of community of creativity, interdependence is the way. Believe and trust you are part of the whole, part of a larger heart and soul. ❤️
One has to do things for your own good, people dont know all the details. People can come to the conclusion that I'm poor or lack ambition, but peace of mind is priceless and wouldnt give it up for anything.
That is great. " One has to do things for your own good". I agree. I am choosing minimalism because I recognize that "stuff" does not bring joy. Having practical beautiful things that do not waste my time and space are essential and bring me peace of mind. I feel like they are not wasted, but are put to good use.
so many people I see around me they were maximalist and recently economic recession last two years peoples capability of buying good is reduce so friends ı see around me started to buy more conciously and became minimalist by force. so many people is recently becoming minimalist bc they can not afford buy stuff like before. ı was already saying that to my friends that this is minimalism by force.
My wallpaper is a rober in a house saying do I need it? Does it spark joy?
Great perspectives on minimalism!👏👍🙋
Its hard to be a minimalist in the Philippines, since most of your family put a value on everything they have , let go is a hard option
A WOLD with NO ADDs, less poverty, more community and creativity, something to believe in? I DO.
I really like both of you
they both have such unique personalities and contribute equally as team members ! I agree
Minimalism is when you awaken and realized there are too many unnecessary things around, then you decided to back to minimum, clean mind and see the truth about your life.
I had people ask me this same question. Their thought is that someone living in poverty doesn’t have the choice of a minimalist lifestyle. They are placed in the situation of having little due to their circumstances. Minimalism is a conscious choice. It’s a philosophy.
I think some assume minimalism is a choice that only the well off can afford to make for living intentionally,as if it is a luxury only the privileged can enjoy.As someone who has experienced both poverty and relative financial security,I truly know,that for me at least,it is a way of giving myself an external space,that best supports the health of my inner one.It has nothing to do with how good or expensive or even how much stuff I do or don't have-and everything to do with making room for my spirit to flourish.
Also when you live with not a lot also dont also declutterall the thibgs they dontneed right now cause they may needed in the future and may not have the resources to buy it in the future
I think that people who are poor don't have a say in the matter, but normal people or rich have the choice to minimalist, so I think they are two different things considering the nature of both of them.
I agree. Many people choose minimalism to make their life better and I doubt people choose poverty.
@@jenniferpeterson7016 yes, definitely.
Minimalism is a good way to get out of poverty. A lot of people in poverty are there because they spend most of their money on things that don't make them happy long term and are a waste. I used to be there and cut a lot of dumb stuff out of my life. Now I have a significant amount of savings and a lot less things piled up, no more stupid money wasting hobbies, and a healthier body. Thanks to a small amount of minimalist philosophy.
For me Minimalism is spending money very mindfully
Minimalist is spend most money on the things we need instead of the things we want.
Maybe not have a term like VIP, because it doesn’t make you a VIP when you contribute more financially. It is placing a hierarchical value label unnecessarily. Contributing $2 or $8 shouldn’t be more or less important
I think MK is more about being intentional, not minimal. Keep something because you love it, not because you happen to have it.
I’m in poverty, I could afford to have more stuff in my apartment but I choose not to so it’s minimalism and poverty all in one. It helps that I have zero interest in interior design. Btw I am saving money and constantly budgeting so that I won’t be in poverty anymore
Tranquility vs. Busyness
Minimalist =😢poor =boring too! And clinical would be the style=
Great guys!!!!!
Yes many ‘poor people’ have a lot of stuff .
Poverty can teach you about what is essential and what is not necessary. But you can't compare poverty and minimalism.
US: we were so poor, when someon's giving you something, you take it.
Other countries: what? someone was giving you something????
Also intentional to help the environment. Maybe leaving this planet better than we found it.
Seeing variety of comments, but guessing if u are homeless then that is pretty much poverty level if not lower i guessing.
It’s the old minimalism. New minimalists have the money to create their life, even if that’s a choice to earn less - as the two of you did.
What would you guys know about poverty?
Is the "before time" the new poverty
But poverty is related to hoarding most of the times.
I’m poor and intentionally a minimalist
another way to say charitable view is saying benign view
People who are poor often blow all their money on things in order to make themselves feel better. It is a poverty mindset.
These guys are not minimalist. They just don't convert the money that they accumulate, into other things. It is good to minimize our environmental footprint, by controlling the amount of possessions you acquire, but that in itself will not help redistribute wealth which surely is at the heart of the issue.
Poor people tend to accumulate more things they never use
90% of White America: unsure what poverty is
Everyone else on the planet: really?
💥💥💥💥💥💥💥