Ultimate retro hard drive? Seagate SSHD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
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Interesting ideas and conclusions, Phil, but I have to share my personal experience with the Seagate SSHD.
I have been using the 1TB 2.5" (laptop) version for over a year and a half now, and I just received my *THIRD* drive under warranty.
That's right; I've actually had to avail myself of the warranty for this drive on three occasions because I was getting clear symptoms of impending doom for each of the three failed drives.
I'm talking about steadily increasing system hangs, extremely slow or hung boot processes that necessitate repeated reboots to finally get it to come up, declining access times once booted, and finally the program that I use to examine what's going one, GSmartctontrol, indicates multiple unrecoverable errors in the S.M.A.R.T. listings for the drive.
I didn't just give up in each case, but really tried to see if it would clear up before finally sending each of the failing drives in under warranty.
With each of the warranty replaced drives (all clearly marked as "Factory Recertified," i.e. refurbished), I can immediately notice everything is right back where it should be, with no hangs, no slowing access time, and no S.M.A.R.T. errors...at least for the first two or three months, then I start getting increasingly worse signs of deterioration once again.
It's a damn good thing that I use a drive imaging program (Clonezilla) regularly to back up my drives, because at least restoring after I get the replacement drive is always a snap, but at this rate, I have to wonder if Seagate has totally dropped the ball with this particular drive.
And I say that as someone who has used Seagate drives for twenty years now, with a 500GB 3.5" (desktop version) and a 1.5TB 3.5" that I've used for several years straight with not a sign of trouble from either.
At least Seagate makes good on their warranty every time, and they make the process as easy as possible, but at this point, I have ton wonder if the warranty process is that way because they have so much practice having it used.
Maybe Seagate's seriously bad QC problems are isolated strictly to their 2.5" 1TB SSHD and all their more conventional hard drives and possibly their desktop SSHD and (I doubt it, given my history, but who knows?) probably less possibly their other 2.5" SSHD are also good, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
All I know beyond all doubt is that their 1TB drive intended mainly for laptops is *TERRIBLE*.
Seriously, avoid that thing like the plague, unless you really want to deal with shuttling bad hard drives back to them every few months and possibly lose all your data when it fails before you've had a chance to do a proper backup.
+PinkOld Thanks for sharing, always good to hear other views. Mine are still working, I have two of the 2 TB desktop and one 750 GB momentus XT, now in my PS4 :)
@@philscomputerlab 6 years later. What are your thoughs on these drives now Phil?
I know nothing lasts forever but how was it looking back?
SSHD is very expensive. In Russia we can buy for $ 10 any s478 desktop. or s370 for $ 5. Maybe free.
But new SSHD 2TB cost ~100-120$
Very expensive.
I have laptop with pentium (MMX) 133MHz with old bios (8GB lim).
I use 1GB CF-card via cf-to-40pin IDE adapter. Also i can use software Ontrack Disk Manager to limit space of 30,40,80GBs harddisks.
In my opinion Ontrack is most flexible such seatools.
Sorry for my bad english and thank you for another great video.
+Павел Врасский You're right, it's not cheap, I forgot to mention pricing :( It's good to hear other perspectives. I also use CF card adapters and old drives that I got for free. In my videos I show all sorts of methods, some cheap, some expensive. There are always different ways of doing things and I like to show them all :)
Someone sent me a 3D printed drive bay. But I couldn't remember who and looked all over my social media. I hope he contacts me again. It would have to be painted though. So take a look at 3D printing project libraries, maybe it's there?
You have quickly become one of my favorite youtubers. I am very much so into older Tech, and love making different builds. I didn't know that SSHDs would be good for older machines until now.
My Rig is a AsusZ97A+3.1 Motherboard with a Zotac 760 GPU, Intel 4460 CPU, ADATA 120GB SSD with 2 Seagate external HDDs for storage, all powered by an EVGA 500B. It's housed in a Vivo Case 03-Red. I plan on trading out the 760 for the 1070, or waiting another year for the 1060.
My recent W98/WXP PC uses a HP Pavilion a200n with some spare parts and obscure drivers I found. The GPU, the FX5200, is awful, and I decided to build the Ultimate Dos/98 PC I asked about. I have the parts I would use listed somewhere in my millions of notepad files.
Glad you like my videos :)
I remember this technology. I bought a WD 2TB version for use in an original Xbox. I have the known working SATA to IDE adapter for using SATA drives with the original Xbox and a flashed TSOP that has LBA48 in it to support 2TB drives but it refused to work. Not sure why. Though about using it in a desktop but gave it to my grandma in the end. I may revisit this at some point to see if I can get the Xbox dash to load from the SSD side for faster boot times.
SSHD's are the best option for 98, im currently using a 2.5" 500gb toshiba one on my neo2 platinum board and an ssd for xp
your new BGM really gives refreshing watching experience, thanks Phil
New...
@@0ka354 Newer than anything Phil reviews anyway ;)
I would think that 386 and below wouldn't benefit from a SSHD, likely even a modest (133x) CF card will be faster than what the chipset can deliver. I do realise that CF cards have a write limit
to an extent though.
+Imperious685 Totally agree with you.
I'm going for the Seagate 1TB SSHD on your recommendation. Enough for a 2006 XP machine and way more then enough for a earlier era pc. The Seatools utility is what sold me. So we'll see. Thanks!
+Martin Klinge Nice! You will be impressed with the speed, especially on a very fast Pentium 4 or Athlon 64, the drive makes a big difference :)
I actually had both Athlon x64 3200+ (754) and a P4 3.2 GHz (462?) in the year 2003. The two 250GB hdd's i still have are close to end of life.
And i'm hitting myself for loosing the excellent Asus chipset SiS board for the P4.
I remember the X-Fi card having DOS tools but i am not sure. I'm looking at a 478 socket board but it prolly does not support lower clock 90's ara DOS games.
I always use the Aureal Vortex 2 :)
It always works well for me.
Couple months ago, I picked up a pair of 8GB SSD Sata drives, and I tested one of them with the Micronics Ppro motherboard, and it did auto detect the drive, but only as a 127MB ( i think was the size, it was around that small ) and I tried to manually set the the sectors / heads / cyl in the BIOS for the 8GB size, and it no longer worked. My adapter is pretty much the same as yours, might be exactly the same actually coming from ebay. I have not gone any further yet, and I noticed it would sometimes detect the drive, and others it would not, so there might be another problem also. That is about as old of a motherboard I have tested the SATA to IDE adapter on, and it does support LBA. I also noticed that Sata to IDE adapters do not work with CDROMS, at least that was the case with mine.
I can definitely see something like this being used in something like a Socket 7 - AMD Athlon XP / P4 build. For older machines, I'd opt for that SD to IDE adapter you used a while back. That's appropriate even for Socket 7 - P3 era machines.
+Evert Coetzee Yea that's a good way of doing it.
You should do some Windows 98SE boot times with the IDE Adapter + SSHD and some start time with some programs. It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference.
The thing is, these depend a LOT on the CPU. On a fast Pentium III I think that would be an interesting project, do doubt.
Still I would need to get a few more drives to show all the options. At least a high performance IDE drive...
They also make a SSHD in 500GB size. I had one in a laptop before. So it may only be in the 2.5" format.
Yes you're right, they do 2.5" laptop drives.
I like the video all the different drive concepts over the years I tackle them one at a time as I run across them you did a impressive work here no small feat thru the power of video edit lol
+Charles Wallinger Thank you :)
Would be really awesome if there was an adapter that split the 2 TB into multiple parts, recognized as multiple hard drives by the computer.
3ware raid adapter could split an array to 2Tb LUNs, don't remember if it can do smaller chunks. But it's pci-e anyway...
actually thought of getting an SSHD for my modern machine (it still runs a plain old 5900rpm drive), The main hurdle for using it in retro machine is the price as the drive can cost more than the machine itself in alot of cases. Although I have to admit the idea of an SSHD on a 386 is awesome (or any SATA hard drive, as it will have alot more cache than the system has RAM)
both my PPro and PIII machines use 10k SCSI drives from Quantum and Seagate while the C2D machine uses a Hitachi Ultrastar SATA drive.
hilariously all of these are faster than the 5900rpm drive my modern i5 uses :P
+lightdark28 Yea they are not the cheapest, that's true. They make a lot of sense to me as I build all sorts of machines and this drive can be used in most of them.
Awesome video, i might go with the same sshd later on my P4 Retro Gaming PC
+Rodrigo B.P P4 flies with this drive! If you go with in Intel chipset like the 865 or 875, that's especially fast.
That really is superb.
Thanks Phil!
But can you use the seagate tools on other brands of drives?
Ok Phil, my jaw dropped for a few seconds, at 04:50 . You were talking about a SuperSocket 7 motherboard and the video showed you plugging in a SATA cable into a SATA port on a motherboard... For a moment there I thought you had a SS7 MB with SATA connectors.
it's always a joy 2 watch and learn from ur vids! i would love 2 build a ultimate retro gaming build tho! it's hard 2 resist :)
+blakedmc1989RaveHD Thank you, that's kind of you!
PhilsComputerLab no prob. :)
+blakedmc1989RaveHD You're everywhere XD
XXAlkhatri XX always is lol
Love your content!
+Morgan Uther Thank you Morgan.
YES ! just this!
Interesting. I tried to built a Socket 7 Retro-PC. Motherboard: MSI 5169, ATX, 512 MB SDRAM. Nearly all CPUs work well, the Pentium 133, Pentium MMX 200 and last not least the AMD K6-2/300. The AMD K5-100 seems to make difficulties. This Board allows 120 GB Harddisk, and accepted a new Kingston 120 GB SSD on a IDE-SATA-Adapter. Nice. But only with 5 MB/s. Too slow. So I took a Promise Ultra DMA 66 Controller (bootable), the Computer starts from there and now I have nearly 30 MB/s. I think the bus of this motherboard can't do more. The SSD costes 20 Euro, and the Adapter +-6. Noiseless.
Just call Druaga1, he'll find a way to get the ENIAC running with a proper SSD!
+TripingPC Hey smoker
+TripingPC a collab would be cool.
true
lol druaga1 loves ssd's XD
+TripingPC Druaga should do a video about SCSI SSDs. Apparently they exist.
where is a links in a description?
my st1000lx015-1u7172 is not detected by windows xp :( it's 1tb drive, I wanna use the full capacity. (my computer detects it in IDE mode, but not ACHI mode, ACHI driver is installed and other drives work fine)
Hey phill, i have one of those micro SD to IDE adaptors. I might try this on my 486. Have you ever tried sd micro SD to IDE adaptors? Since SD flash memory is so cheap these days, it could be an exellent alternative for old computers.
+totalrandomtechnolog Yes I have, I reviewed such an adapter previously. It worked great, but I'm still testing long-term reliability before I make up my mind :)
Phil I have a couple of questions. I have ordered parts to build my voodoo slot 1 p3 system, I'll be using the Asus p2-b 440bx board with a sata to ide adapter as you have used. I would rather not limit the HDD size as I've read that even if the bios doesn't report the size correctly, usually the OS will anyway. Your thoughts?
Second question is whether I can get away without using a floppy, I'd like to auto boot from CD for installing windows. I cannot remember if these old systems need a floppy to work properly. Thanks.
+Storm Gaming Media Windows 98 has a 120 GB limit, so try to stay under that.
Windows 98 SE is a boot CD, so you can FDISK, FORMAT and install it without a floppy!
Sometimes Windows 98 pauses during installation on machines without a Floppy. This has cost me hours of tinkering around, thinking the machine was frozen. Just a heads up :)
PhilsComputerLab
Okay. Since I have ordered a dual Slot 1 system with 2x P3 processors I will use an NT based OS for dual cpu support (haven't decided which yet) so hopefully the drive won't be so limited for space.
+Storm Gaming Media Might check out ReactOS .40
can you do a vidéo about the best AGP graphics card ?
I fail to see the reason for this. sub 40gb ssd drives can be bought for a song. It seems a waste to put a 2TB drive and only use 32 or 128gb. Personal experience has shown me it SO much more convenient to have a NAS and put everything there and just boot locally.
+Bradley Nuckols I think I've shown plenty of reasons in the video :) Take a look what a final generation 500 GB IDE drive costs! They are expensive, I was quite surprised. SSD are cheap, but DOS, Windows 98 and XP doesn't support TRIM.
+PhilsComputerLab I understand that, but the point I was making, regular sata drives with sata>ide converters are MUCH cheaper. I have a literal PILE of 320 and 500gb drives, all work just fine with anything Pentium and newer. Also, I'm fairly certain compact flash has built-in wear leveling. making them perfect for 486 and older.
Yup there are lots of options, and I showed them right at the start of the video.
Why would you care about TRIM for dos use.
Most dos applications are install (write) once, read many many times.
Dos does not use much tempfiles, does not use swapping.. all those are Windows functions.
Applications in DOS just aren't that fancy.. they run in memory, and at best edit a save file at the end.
Unless you keep deleting things and then installing new stuff on a daily basis, the SSD will never fragment, never get to a state where trim is needed..
You can work in DOS on an SSD for 10 years and still haven't get the cycles you would have from windows 10 in a month.
Maybe with Windows 98 you could get some of that..But once you get to 16MB ram, you can simply run it without a swap file.. with 32MB you can even put the temp on a Ramdisk and never look back
Anything pre-pentium, just put a cheap ass 512 to 1 or 2 GB Disk on Module on there..they cost the same as that SSD2ATA converter you show here... You can buy 6 DoM's for the price of the Converter and the SSHD
Phil, I have a 1tb WD HDD but I cannot get my Slot 1 440bx board to install any version of windows I try (2000/xp/7) I think it may be due to bios incompatibility as you mentioned. I am using the IDE to SATA adapter you recommend. Can I use Seatools on a WD drive too? Thx
+Storm Gaming Media You can try but I don't think it will work :( SeaTools works with Seagate and Samsung drives from what I found.
+PhilsComputerLab okay, I just put an order in for the SD to IDE you reviewed. I think this will be the best option for me. Thanks for your advice.
I would prefer an used Velociraptor (not the normal Raptor). Especially the older and/or smaller ones are cheap on the used market (ebay, hardwareforums) and thanks to 10k RPM quite fast.
+Allesbelegt I think I have some 70 GB ones. Because of the platter density they are not nearly as fast as modern drives.
+PhilsComputerLab Raptor or Velociraptor? Because the Velociraptors are 2.5" drives which comes in the so called "Icepack". And especially when it comes to access times they are faster than normal hdd. In my opinion the two best test for the speed is Windows Startup and Sims with a lot of expansion packs and user generated stuff.
+Allesbelegt Yea the Raptor from 2005. They were fast at the time, but hard drives have improved so much since then. The Sims? Ha, that's cute, I don't own a single Sims game, don't think I ever will :) I'll keep the 2.5" versions in mind, thank you!
+PhilsComputerLab I know that also the regular HDD has improved. But keep in mind that the last generation of Velociraptor (6th generation of all raptors or 3th generation from velociraptor) is from 2013.
2013? Well that's very recent. And they can be had for cheap also, or more the older ones. I must admit, I didn't know they are so recent.
Phil! I'm sorry for all the questions lol. I went and got an 80gb SATA drive off gumtree but I'm still having problems. When I install windows XP or 2000 I just get 'unmountable boot volume' on start up (once installation has finishes). I'm using those IDE to SATA adapters (same as yours) I also put a jumper in the HDD to force sata 1.5 for compatibility. I detected the drives in the bios perfectly without issue. Any ideas?
+Storm Gaming Media Not sure I'm afraid. Google that error and maybe you get some clues? Delete all the partitions on it too before you install XP?
+PhilsComputerLab Phil!!! I fixed it! I was using a crappy old gray IDE cable, I went to my local shop and asked for a new cable and they gave me a snazzy blue gigabyte cable with finer lines in the cable., XP is installing now.
Nice. You're getting good at this :D
+PhilsComputerLab www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=47805&p=493204#p493204
Hey Phil :)
I am having problems with my AMD K6 GA5AX :(
Sata Promise and 60GB SSD
Windows 98 does start to install but fails to complete :(
Win2000 and XP says it could not find a drive :/ :( Same with 80gb hdd
+Schalk Jansen I never had much luck with SSD drives in these old machines. Sorry if this isn't very helpful :/
I use a Ultra SCSI-160 controller with a 73GB Seagate Cheetah Ultra-320 drive in my P-III. Do you think I'd notice a performance gain from swapping to this solution?
+InterruptRequest What sort of Pentium III? If we are talking 1 GHz and faster, I would say yes. Mostly because of the faster access time and SSD caching.
The chipset IDE interface also has less latency compared to going through the PCI bus.
+PhilsComputerLab Right. It's a Tualatin 1.4GHz on a i815 motherboard with 512MB PC133 RAM.
Yes I think that machine would benefit from any modern drive. The access time is what has improved the most.
I'd love to have some high end SCSI gear and IDE drives to do a comparison one day...
+PhilsComputerLab I have a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.2 (iirc) as a secondary drive in it, and that drive is slow as a snail compared to the SCSI drive. I think the SCSI drive runs at around 5ms average access time, but that is of course very slow compared to a full SSD, I just don't know what the SSHD's are like, which is why I was curious.
Wow, I remember that RAM drive. Very nice :)
all sandforce ssd's have never needed trim
Where can I get a decent 386 / 486 for cheap?
Is this drive worth it for a Windows XP Pentium 4 system?
Yes absolutely!
PhilsComputerLab Thanks!
Any ideas on where I might find a working 386 / 486 era system for cheap? My 486SX's onboard video died recently, and I haven't got an ISA VGA card to replace it with, and while I've got plenty of EGA and MDA cards, I haven't got a monitor to use them with.
Check thrift shops, or pawn shops. Though pawn shops today don't bother with anything that can't run a modern OS in many cases. Ebay is out of the question unless you want to pay $100-$300 USD. Check garage sales and local flea markets / swap meets. These days it's going to be hard getting a system of that era cheap. These days the Core 2 line are the cheap systems going for around $20-$50. Good luck!
@@harshbarj yeah man those ebay sellers think they sit on a gold bar, plus they don't even clean or check the expensive old product properly
Does partitioning the drive into smaller chunks not work with order computers?
+edison700 Not if the drive is too big to get detected...
I skipped all that and went straight IDE SSD
How is the IDE SSD going ?? I'm getting for for my Windows 98SE pc :)
Dam :/ I dont suppose you would know what the fastest desktop IDE 80gb / 120gb hard drive would be ?? :)
hi bro i would like to have a sshd in my pc, can u tell me how much solid state memory is in here?
+Renox CS:GO 8 GB!
+PhilsComputerLab oh bloody hell, thats not even enough for today's os sizes, so i changed my opinion quite fast XD
+Renox CS:GO That isn't the way it works, if I remember correctly. Most data is stored on the primary spinning platters, but the most accessed data (OS bootup info, game/program data, etc..) is stored on the SSD portion for fast access. This means you get the fast read/write speeds of a SSD with the storage of a HDD.
+Renox CS:GO You can't use the 8GB drive, the SSHD will copy the most used files in it to make the access to them faster, making like Windows boot as fast as an SSD, but the other files will be stored on the hard drive. (sorry for my english, I'm italian)
Renox CS:GO Have you watched the video? I do explain how a SSHD works...
SO if I installed windows 98 on this hard drive would it immediately go to the 8gb SSD Section?
+VoiceActingGod Actually no, it will write to the platter. But then whatever you use will get buffered into the SSD. So after a a while it should all be buffered. But that's just a theory :)
PhilsComputerLab ah, thats interesting the way these SSHD's work.I wish they came in smaller capacities.
The SSHD is largely nonsense since IDE transfer rates were limited to 33, 66 or 100MB/s. The 8GB Nand Storage of the SSD is supposed to run at 500-600MB/s, but will be reduced to the above IDE speeds. The only remaining advantage is that seek/access times are reduced to less then a msec. Taking a modern SATA HDD with a dedicated small partition for the OS will result in minimal seek/access times too. On modern HDDs track-to-track seek times are 1 msec, that will give a comparable performance improvement for less money.
You make some valid points, but it depends on the project. Sure if you use a SATA to IDE adapter. But you can build a Windows XP Retro Gaming PC that has SATA II or SATA III. You don't need to worry about TRIM support, although you should align the partitions. This drive has a lot going for it, but it's not for everyone and depends a lot on what you want to do.
You need to enable the S.M.A.R.T.
@Dalle Smalhals so the os warn you before the disk die, most of the time anyways.
odd question but what would be the best way to install xp on a ssd?
the computer in question is a 775 socket p45 based motherboard with a q8200 i believe
+H4KD11 it's plug and play.
+4nuk8r cheers
+H4KD11 -- Yep, the brother with the long explanation is right. You will probably need a diskette with the Sata AHCI/RAID drivers in case you want to take advantage of AHCI speeds and/or use a disk array.
+H4KD11 I wouldn't. As discussed in this video, I would use this Seagate SSHD drive. You connect it directly to the SATA port. In the BIOS you can set the SATA controller to either IDE or AHCI. IDE will just work. For AHCI you need to have the SATA AHCI driver on a Floppy and press F6 when starting the Windows XP intallation disc. You can also slipstream the AHCI driver. Easiest is to just leave it on IDE.
Absolutely. The SSD / caching algorithm is all done internally. That's what makes this drive so great for Windows 98 or XP :)
Will these faster speeds have any effect on gameplay?
If won't get you higher framerates, if that's what you're asking. You'll get lower loading times, but old dos games will likely load in single digit seconds already, so you're not saving a whole lot.
can you make it somehow... louder?
what for? it's fine!
Can you pass your Pentium IV motherboard model?
I'm not 100% sure, but it's a MSI board with Intel 865 chipset!
PhilsComputerLab Its a 865PE Neo-2 Platinum Edition
ever given any tough to those: transcend-info.com/Products/No-512 ? it are IDE SSD's, they are a bit expensive though. besides this i haven't seen any good solution for things like laptops, have you?
+Interstellar Whale Yes I've heard of them, don't own one I'm afraid. I've seen CF adapters for notebooks. Basically an adapter that connects a CF card to the IDE port of a notebook.
+PhilsComputerLab the problem with those is that they don't have much write cycles, and wear down in os's that use swap files.
i dont know why, every time i tried to play this video it bricked my tablet.
I don't think you know what bricked means
Coolieli dude i had to take the battery out XD it completely locked up
+bassblaster505 Gaming Yeah, that's not bricked. When a device is bricked, there is absolutely no way of turning it back on
Coolieli *Cough* iPhone 1/1/70 *Cough*
bassblaster505 Gaming I'm not saying that it can't be bricked, I'm saying that your iPad isn't bricked if you can still turn it on
dude, don't call XP retro.
+fuckyoustupidzombie But I do :)
one word: 541DX
+Geomanb I think I have 10 GB 40 GB and 80 GB IDE drives. They are quite slow. It's impressive to see how much faster modern drives have gotten.
I don't see the point of using a modern hard drive for an old system. Sure it's much faster, but the machine won't use its full performance and you'd have a hard time filling it entirely without a gigantic library of games. It's not an everyday machine either, so the few seconds you may lose while it loads stuff aren't that much of a problem. Kind of wasteful in my opinion, this SSHD drive would be more suited in a modern machine that would use it's full potential..
There are plenty of fast ATA133 HDDs around that cost nothing since no one uses them anymore. The installation wont require any adapter either. Windows Me boots extremely fast on my Pentium III 1.4S/512Mb/Voodoo5 machine, and it's very responsive in all situations, yet it's only an 80Gb Seagate Barracuda IV in there.
But maybe that's just me, I don't like spending money on my old machines. Having a good dumpster diving spot helps as well :P
Sure, now there's a lot of drives around, but in the future it's going to get harder and harder to find them and they'll get more expensive. It's important to know how to use modern hard drives simply because the old ones die out.