My EV9 just received an OTA update this morning. The release notes say to "address compatibility with NACS connector DC fast chargers to reduce the probability of shutdowns while charging."
Yup, this fixes a bug that was occurring where the rear inverter would bug out and stop the charging session. The update isn't needed for NACS compatibility but reduces the likelihood of a failed session during one. I'd bet money that's what happened to Corbin's car here.
the EV9 also does charge at tesla superchargers now with an adapter. Official rollout was delayed but it is actually working. maxes out at 84 kW though since the boost converter is lower rated.
Not sure what video you were watching. I only saw the knowledgeable Out of Spec guy and someone else who creates videos by relying on the work and words of others, all while promoting his low-quality merch.
@@NomadCF Jordan is very knowledgeable, when it comes to Tesla. Sure. But he doesn’t know much about the IONIQ 5 or any other Korean EV, it’s very visible in the recent IONIQ 5 build quality video he did with Colton. IONIQ Guy does way better work than what you’re describing. If you think you can do better, by all means, give us your channel info and I’ll be your best critic.
@@fleecystheking & @NomadCF - gonna have to disagree with both of you. Corbin is super knowledgeable in his space. And I know plenty about all of the E-GMP products, including underlying technology and iterative improvements. But feel free to disagree if you have specifics.
@@Jordan_Schiefer OK, I'm ready to be proven otherwise. But your recent video on the 2025 IONIQ 5's build quality with Colton was supposed to be about E-GMP, and it wasn't... More like a "let's discover this thing we don't know much about" video. It would have been a great moment to let us in on your knowledge!
@@OutofSpecDetailing this is an absolutely asinine video. Tesla can give the car a higher curve but they are trying to preserve the longevity of the battery. I would much rather have the battery last 200k then save 3-4 hrs over lifetime of the 100k that ionics battery will probably last with pushing more power than the battery is comfortable with.
@@bobbysuazjFhvcfgh I have yet to see good evidence that these faster charging cars are actually degrading any faster than Teslas do. Hyundai has a 10 year 100,000 mile battery warranty on these cars and they’re absolutely designed to last way longer than that to prevent them from losing money on in-warranty replacements.
"You can go over to an EA and destroy me." Except you'll find a Bolt on the 350 and the other 350 derated, after having driven 6 miles off the highway to get to the charger.
You haven’t heard they have the worst gas cars for years, literal trash. They seem to be redeeming themselves making very good electric cars, though which is bringing me home about them switching to electric earlier than other manufacturers
On Jordon’s comments about pricing. I have been an advocate that kWh pricing was the wrong more at DCFC equipment. They should be priced at the maximum rate of the Charger output. If you pull up to a 350kW charger, you should pay like you pull 350kW, and if you pull up to a 50kW charger you should pay like you pull 50kW. This will get Bolts, ID.4’s and people who charge to 100% off the rapid chargers. And allows people who aren’t in a hurry to be encouraged to seek out slower cords which are more cost effective. Let the infrastructure realize true revenue of installed capacity.
@@tjts1if I have the 2020 Standard Range Plus, does it charge faster than an LFP battery Tesla? I never been to a supercharger before in these past 4 years, but I will do so this Spring Break
Thanks for braving the wind chill. I appreciate the effort. That's what I like about both of these channels. What can we do to help people understand the why and how of the ever changing automotive frontier of EVs. There are so many smart people here to comment and add value to the test. Great work folks.
Yes, I am under the impression that Tesla has such a curve to preserve the life of the battery. It will be interesting to see which brand battery lasts longer over many charge cycles.
I've noticed on very hot days, over 100°F, I can charge faster at a 150kw EA station than a 350kw station because the battery starts to overheat on that higher power while the 150kw doesn't heat the battery as much.
Great video. I’ve always said I bought my 22 Hyundai Ioniq 5 because it charges 3 to 4 minutes faster than a Tesla. I couldn’t quite believe that Tesla had been charging for 10 years or more in 2022 and Hyundai just came out of nothing and blew them away. BUT, the fact that the Tesla gets 100 more miles of range…… the efficiency of the Tesla versus the Hyundai is also kind of amazing.
It isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison; they should be comparing the Ioniq 5 to the Model Y instead of the 3, since they are both marketed as CUVs. The range difference would be much less.
For those that rely on supercharging for all of their charging needs. This is really good to know that Tesla’s chargers are cheaper than EA. Definitely brings more equity in EV ownership.
Curve makes sense. The peak is used as a marketing gimmick. And the actual lower charge rate probably degrades the battery less as well as the chargers and transformers. Less heat and stress at all points.
Congrats Corbin on the 2025! I have to say I like the previous turbine looking wheels better than the new wheels on the 25 I5. That I5 has aged very well. Still looks great. Charging curve matters. Making the case for the eGMP cars even on Tesla SCs. Very nice! Some places should have banks of 50-62kw DCFC for places where you will be a while. Now if the I5 got the efficiency and range of that M3! Nice to know the I5 charging is still competitive even on Tesla SCs. We finally get 800v+ on Tesla and it should scream.
I agree about restaurants. I like finding ones with the Chargepoint 50 to 62kWh units. They are perfect for charging while eating. With a high speed charger, I usually have to jump up and move the car about the time the food arrives. Good video. It was fun listening to you guys.
In Quebec, Electric Circuit has different rates for fast charging based on the charging speed reached by your EV. There are 5 rates : Under 20, 20-50, 50-90, 90-180 and over 180 kWh. Makes complete sense and works very well.
@@0my It's very simple actually. Electric Circuit applies rates automatically based on your charging speed, in real time. Nothing to do on the user end. Picking a slower charger will result in a cheaper charge, so that keeps older equipment relevant.
I work at Tesla and I talk about this all the time average power delivered is more important. I keep saying there should be 3 profiles for charging. Fast may reduce battery life and stress components fat 250 for a long time or even 300kw Normal this curve you have optimized a bit Chill. Just A nice average power because you want to change to a high SOC
Great idea to make it user selectable! I wouldn't want my M3LR charging at 250 the entire curve at every session. However, there are times when time is a high priority.
Thanks for testing it but if its not to much trouble it would be much nicer with the numbers on the screen while charging (like Bjørn from Norge). The ionic 5 should be ccompared to Model Y, so it must be very close when measuring km or miles in the charging time. One benefit to the Ionic will also be that you dont need to drive it as far down to get an ok charge speed you can go 40-80% if it fits with your trip.
you should also look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5 recalls, crappy interior, and terrible software, lack of features on anything but top level trim! check out the out of spec detailing video of late. Better off with a Tesla or a Kia EV6!
@@laxarus3259not really. On the i90 surge, the tesla only beat the ioniq 6 by a small margin, well within margin of error of them being tied. With the slower charging NACS now, maybe that changes (but it shouldn't, I don't think?).
@@laxarus3259seems a more appropriate comparison would be MY vs I5. Once Tesla upgrades to 800v, Ioniq will be much faster. Using Electrify America or other 800v locations today will already result in a faster I5 charge
Very interesting charging comparison. Kudos to Hyundai for their excellent charging curve! Tesla really does need to address their horrible ramp down. The Hyundai would destroy the Tesla on high powered none Tesla chargers which is the more typical use case for the Hyundai. However, the most important factor isn't how long it takes to charge from 10-80%. What matters most is how much range you can add in X minutes. At the end of the day you're charging so you can reach a destination not to see an arbitrary SoC %. This is where the Tesla makes up a lot of ground on the Hyundai. It would blow away the Hyundai on the NACS charger on this test but would still likely fall short if the Hyundai was on a high power non-Tesla charger.
Excellent video, and so right to focus on charge curve band efficiency… imagine if Tesla would improve that charge curve, hey give us even 200kw to 50% what a monster of a car that would be…
The egmp cars when charging on a 400V charger don't have the power creep up as the "voltage creeps up" because there is no voltage creep. The car requests a set voltage from the charger (I see 425V on my EV9) and either the max current of the charger or up to the max current for the car (on my EV9, its 200A, it sounds like the new Ioniq5 is 300A). So, the power will just sit flat. As far as the results, this is pretty much exactly what I was expecting. It's basically a tie between the 2 cars at around 30 minutes.
The range difference is also attributed to differently styled cars. One is a crossover and the other is a sleek sedan. The real range comparison would be between the 2025 Ioniq 6 and the Model 3.
Yeah, having a good curve is definitely key. I always wondered if pumping 650 amps in to a car makes it hit thermal limits too fast. And it’s too hard to recover from that. I have to assume that Tesla is constantly testing charging performance and what works best. But I may be wrong there, who knows with them. The e-GMP cars seem to have flat curves, but they have different curves at different segments of the charging.
Who knew EV charge racing would be almost exciting as Formula One racing? Hey the Ioniq 5 blew a tire so the race doesn't stop because of a blown tire - right? 😆 Great video!!
This shows the usefulness of calculus. A high peak power is great, but the integral of the charge curve (area under the curve) is clearly more important if a shorter time to charge is what you want. The Ioniq 5's curve seems to be similar to the Kia EV3's curve. Makes sense.
Tesla does need to fix there charging curves. I would say they are doing it to protect the battery’s health but e-gmp cars haven’t been showing more derogation than Teslas. So I would love to hear from a Tesla engineer why they don’t have a flat curve like Hyundai.
I met both Franz and Lars at an event and spoke to both of them for about 15 minutes, got pictures with them etc. I was the guy that "introduced" pictures of the Performance Highland to Reddit back in April of 24, prompting everyone to use my shots. Lars and Franz were generally engaging and generous with their time. One thing I brought up was charging curves and specifically the BYD Blade battery that some Tesla's from the Berlin factory. Those Blade batteries have a much better charge curve as tested by Bjorn Nyland. Lars didn't really respond as if to say: Yeah, we know. But I've found, one of the critical aspects of fast charging is managing heat. The BYD Blade battery's structure allows for more effective cooling. So I'm hoping next generations of Tesla batteries will have better thermal stability. I guess Tesla is conservative in charging to stay within safe parameters prioritising longevity. 800 volt systems (like this Ionic 5) will help "fix" this with our current battery types. I'm hopeful that in the near future, we'll have: 800v traction, 48v low voltage, and steer by wire as standard. Oh, and Vehicle-to-Grid of course. Hope is a good thing, right?
so nice once again to get that 800V nonsense and fast charging, 800V only helps with wire size from charger to pack. In reality it only matters if you have very big pack and need more than 500A from charger at 400V class. The only place where "800V" helps is chargers with stupidly spec'ed low amperage cables.
@@asaha7547 There are other advantages. Because less current is needed in 800v systems, the cables and components in the vehicle can be thinner and smaller, reducing overall weight. Lower current flow also minimizes heat generation, which can lead to simpler and more effective cooling systems, enhancing battery longevity and reliability. Obviously, until the charging infrastructure has more 800+ volts systems, the advantages are less, but we'll get there.
@ Thank you for repeating that it only saves on thinner cables, but if cables are thinner you don't have less heat, you can't eat cake and have it... So once again 800V helps if you have cells that take a lot of charge (Taycan/EGMP) or you have lot of them 100+ kWh (trucks) where you really need >500V
@@asaha7547 I'm not saying thinner wires are the only benefit. The biggest advantage is faster charging. The wires from the charge port don't heat up as much, so we can use thinner, lighter wires there. When it comes to heat, it's really about the inverters and reducing losses in wires, connectors, and contact points. Less current means less heat, which also means less need for cooling. Higher voltage makes power electronics like inverters work more efficiently. At higher voltages, there's less loss in the semiconductors, which helps keep things cooler. I'm not ignoring the downsides of an 800V system; there are some. For example, performance might drop when the battery gets low, and balancing the battery becomes even more important. Also, parts that can handle 800V are costlier than those for 400V. But my 'dream' for future models to use 800V is driven by my desire for a 200-250 mile range boost in just 10-12 minutes of charging.
As a Tesla owner it’s sad to say that while Tesla has made great improvements in their cars in many ways over the years; they have made very little improvements in their charging curve or peak in over in over 6 years and the other automakers are surpassing them. Well said Jordan, hopefully they are watching take the advice. Tesla needs to improve their charging curve ASAP. Tesla makes a lot of improvement’s via OTA updates, charge curve improvement’s needs to be added to the top of their list.
What a horse race. This is great. I've been dreaming about full-size electric cars since about 1982. The current state of the industry is just unimaginably exciting. In 10 years, the gains have been phenomenal.. In another 5 to 10 years, it's going to be truly wild. Of course, the primary indicator in advancements is usability, and battery functionality - which seems to be gaining pretty rapidly as well. This is a fun, nerdy video. ❤❤❤
This is why I never understood the huge emphasis on peak charging speeds. Sure, you can sometimes get in and out in 10 minutes, but you're effectively doubling the number of charging stops you need to make. The average speed to add a usable amount of range seems far more important/valid, and it's easier to translate for the average consumer.
Super interesting. Thank you. I guess that Hyundai solved the issue of cars with 800v charging architecture plugging into Tesla's 400v chargers. Kudos to Hyundai.
15:30 - Just shows that "once everything is NACS/Supercharger all charging problems will go away" is a laughable idea. Switching the plug isn't going to solve all charging glitches. Superchargers aren't foolproof. (I had plenty of charging errors/glitches with my Model S. The big advantage of the Supercharger network was that stations had enough stalls that if one or two erred out, you could move to another. EA stations with four stalls and two broken means only two working, and probably a line to use them. Supercharger with two broken stalls probably still has a dozen more working. That is solved by simply adding more stalls per station.)
@@jblyon2 Well, not a Leaf in the 350, because none of the CHAdeMO dispensers have >150kW for the CCS side. Other possibility is a VW or Hyundai charging to 100%.
@@jblyon2 forget about bolts. We now have Amazon delivery vans taking up EA chargers. Any my niro wouldn't work on one stall. But the same stall worked just fine with a mach e 5 min later. Go figure.
@@AnonymousFreakYTlucky for us the Bolt can now charge at superchargers! Every brand with low voltage cars that opens SuC access is one fewer car for me to wait for at EA. The Ultium cars even charge better at SuC than EA so they should look for it.
Charging kW (average) and kWh/min added are a testament to the HV architecture and battery pack/cells; clearly, the Hyundai eGMP won. Miles added/min is a testament to the overall vehicle design and efficiency with respect to all road loads, which Tesla won.
Agree, their comparing the areo dynamic profile of a salon vs a suv, the boxier one will suffer on a miles per minute of charge basis. If they had compared the model 3 with the Ioniq 6 the point would have been a more relevant comparison.
I wonder if the OTA NACS charging bugfix from the EV9 hasn't been developed for the new Ioniq 5 yet. That could've explained the charging dropout. Expect an update! I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same exact issue, but the '25 hasn't been out long enough for them to develop the OTA fix yet. Search SA601 for the Kia service bulletin explaining the issue with the rear inverter interference causing charging dropouts. "May unexpectedly end an EV charging session when using a Tesla Supercharger station due to signal interference with the vehicle’s inverter."
I’ve tested today and others have that that older Kia (ev6 2022 in my case) also can currently charge on tesla superchargers with adaptor. Just select Ioniq 5 in the app.
I was thinking this when he was going on about the efficency. The 2 vehicles aren't in the same category at all. Felt like there had to be some sort of positive tesla spin to wrap things up.
The more Battery videos I watch, the more I realize Tesla‘s horrible curve is due to their own software design. In order to keep the longevity of their batteries this is a feature, not a bug. We will see how long Porsche and Hyundai’s batteries will last after tons of supercharging. Tesla can handle lots of supercharging because of how they manage their curve.
If Hyundai change all their ev cars to NACS probably switch over to hyundai ev car next! Or convince my wife to get hyundai Ioniq 5 telling her it uses same home charger lol
Another option instead of tiered charging speeds... The chargers could have a charging valet. You pull up and if there is a line you park and give your key to the valet. They would move your car to the charger when it is your turn and notify you to start the charge via the app. When charging is done they move your car. With this valet you wouldn't have to wait in line or worry about idle fees so you can shop and/or eat at your leisure.
@350Kw charger my Ioniq 6 will hit a 227 peak here in the UK and hold it until around 60% IF the battery is hot. I have seen 10 to 80% in 15 minutes in the summer. However, in the winter it takes an age to get the battery to even 35c and 74Kw
Makes you wonder why the jumped onto they NACS port so early when it is clearly so much slower on Superchargers vs at CCS stations. 32min vs 18min for 10-80 is significant and now you need an adapter anyways to access the faster CCS chargers.
Was supposed to be yesterday. Got delayed. Still supposed to be Q1, but I'll believe it when I see it, since we missed the originally announced timeline.
There are reports saying Hyundai vehicles can already charge at Tesla superchargers with a DC adapter. I personally have a Hyundai Kona EV, and when I use the Tesla app to search for superchargers, I get more results when I say I have an adapter, than when I say I don’t have an adapter.
@@UnnDunn I have an IONIQ5 and an adapter (Lectron Vortex), and I see the same thing you do in the Tesla app. BUT... I physically went and tested and was not able to charge. I think ONLY 2025 model year IONIQ5 can charge on Supercharger today, and every other HKG vehicle is still blocked.
@@fiehlsport I don't think that's right. But if you've done it yourself in the real world on a non-[Magic Dock Supercharger] with a non-[2025 IONIQ5], I'll have to admit I was wrong.
The car that stopped charging would be a bigger issue if you were in the store and not out there to restart it. Reliability is a large factor that leans towards Tesla being better.
The app would've told you once it stopped. Also this is a Telsa supercharging issue when it comes to Hyundai and Kia cars. This doesn't happen on any other charging network like EA. I'm sure this issue will be fixed but as if right now it's an inconvenience if anything.
@@akennedystocks I think you meant MY and not M3. The only Telsa that I like is the MS Plaid tho so no thanks. I currently have an EV6 GT and loving it!
@@volcalstone No, they are going to refresh the Model Y and then Model 3. Don't do gas anymore. It is a prehistoric waste of dinosaur juice. Loud, smelly, dirty and costly. My garage has never been so clean. Plus I don't need loud noises to get me excited except in the bedroom.
@@akennedystocks they just refreshed the M3 thus year so I doubt they will do anything new for a while. The point is not to make them look the same anymore. ICE cars still had a place imo. EVs aren't perfect right now and they won't be until we could charge them up in 5 mins comparable to gas cars. I'll even take 10 mins really.
Best I've seen on my Equinox EV at a Supercharger is 56.55kWh delivered in 30 minutes. The EQEV must have a bigger battery pack, because that was something like 20-80% for me.
One of my first charging sessions with my Tesla Model Y just randomly stopped charging while I was using the restroom. I didn't know it had stopped charging until I was done and returned to my car. Thankfully, that has been the only time that happened in the 3.5 years of ownership. Super happy to see NACS native ports on non-Tesla cars although Ionic sticking with the wrong side was an odd choice. I think at V4/magic dock places, the cables will be long enough, but not sure about other places.
Two thoughts: 1) My 2021 Model 3 LR it takes, almost, twice as long to from 50% to 80% as it does from 10% to 50%. On a road trip I, usually, charge to 50%. 2) I think that the miles vs charging time is a more important metric than battery % vs charging time.
I guess it really comes down to how long you have to go from charger to charger. The E-GMP platform is really built for those 20 min charge stops with ~150 mile stretches in between. Tesla is a lot more optimized for ~15 minute stops with 80-120 miles in between, but the key is really your route having the right spacing. E-GMP is much more forgiving if there's poor infrastructure and you need to make a 150-180 mile stretch between chargers.
I think as NACS becomes the standard and non-Tesla networks have longer NACS cables and better positioned equipment, charge port location won't matter anymore.
So essentially they tied. 1.5 minutes is very close in the grand scheme of things. So the question is what is better for the battery long term? A curve or a sustained 100-125 kwh? In theory, having a curve is easier on the battery but I suppose that depends on the battery chemistry.
Cool to see you collaborate with IoniqGuy!
Again
The curve matters far more than the peak.
It's not the size that matters it's how long you can sustain it!
@@brandenflasch the ultimate equation is peak x curve x efficiency= Taycan
At least it's not a Polestar where the curve and peak both suck!
@@azorglub How about cost though? ;)
yeah... FFS tesla just needs to improve 10-15% on the curve and there line up would be fine. /sigh
My brother and the Hyundai engineering team in the US worked hard on the integration with Tesla chargers. He's really proud of the work they've done.
Picking mine up next week! American made and I dont have to support a NAZI.
This is the new quarter mile street drag race lol
Haha yes!
More people gawk at at the Porsche Taycan’s charging speed vs how fast it is 😂
@@Tazdeviloo7 My dream EV
Extremely sad thought lol
CORBIN!!!! What a nice surprise! Congratulations. Thank you for the content, Jordan.
My EV9 just received an OTA update this morning. The release notes say to "address compatibility with NACS connector DC fast chargers to reduce the probability of shutdowns while charging."
Yup, this fixes a bug that was occurring where the rear inverter would bug out and stop the charging session. The update isn't needed for NACS compatibility but reduces the likelihood of a failed session during one. I'd bet money that's what happened to Corbin's car here.
Must be fixing some issues that caused the delay in Kia access to superchargers
the EV9 also does charge at tesla superchargers now with an adapter. Official rollout was delayed but it is actually working. maxes out at 84 kW though since the boost converter is lower rated.
@@fiehlsport this seems to be a common problem where it bugs out and stops, it took this long to fix it
@@Lor-dn1vzwhy is the 9 so much lower than a 5? 84 is horrible.
FINALLY! Two people that know their product, a fun video, no stupid sucking up to Tesla, I'm loving this!
Not sure what video you were watching. I only saw the knowledgeable Out of Spec guy and someone else who creates videos by relying on the work and words of others, all while promoting his low-quality merch.
@@NomadCF Jordan is very knowledgeable, when it comes to Tesla. Sure. But he doesn’t know much about the IONIQ 5 or any other Korean EV, it’s very visible in the recent IONIQ 5 build quality video he did with Colton.
IONIQ Guy does way better work than what you’re describing. If you think you can do better, by all means, give us your channel info and I’ll be your best critic.
Tesla incredibly good!
@@fleecystheking & @NomadCF - gonna have to disagree with both of you. Corbin is super knowledgeable in his space. And I know plenty about all of the E-GMP products, including underlying technology and iterative improvements. But feel free to disagree if you have specifics.
@@Jordan_Schiefer OK, I'm ready to be proven otherwise. But your recent video on the 2025 IONIQ 5's build quality with Colton was supposed to be about E-GMP, and it wasn't... More like a "let's discover this thing we don't know much about" video. It would have been a great moment to let us in on your knowledge!
Curve>Peak
@@OutofSpecDetailing this is an absolutely asinine video. Tesla can give the car a higher curve but they are trying to preserve the longevity of the battery. I would much rather have the battery last 200k then save 3-4 hrs over lifetime of the 100k that ionics battery will probably last with pushing more power than the battery is comfortable with.
@@bobbysuazjFhvcfgh I have yet to see good evidence that these faster charging cars are actually degrading any faster than Teslas do. Hyundai has a 10 year 100,000 mile battery warranty on these cars and they’re absolutely designed to last way longer than that to prevent them from losing money on in-warranty replacements.
@@chadshenkThere is someone who posted about their Ioniq 5 with 200,000 miles and the battery health of 90%.
@@Kikiolu there is someone who posted that their ionic 5 has 20k miles and has 60% degradation 🤣🤣
@@chadshenk Hyundai is notorious about not honoring their warranties. Check TH-cam and u will see all kinds of horror stories about it 🤣
"You can go over to an EA and destroy me." Except you'll find a Bolt on the 350 and the other 350 derated, after having driven 6 miles off the highway to get to the charger.
EA station that's actually working - easier finding unicorns.
Not to mention you have to wait in line for 40 minutes behind a bunch of other people that all got a free EA charging plan on their slow charging EV's
That sounds about right. 😢
You forgot about the ID4s freeloading on the unlimited charging who always ask for help
I really like the Ioniq 5s bright interior as well as the Model 3s bright interior. Hyundai and Tesla are doing really great!
You haven’t heard they have the worst gas cars for years, literal trash. They seem to be redeeming themselves making very good electric cars, though which is bringing me home about them switching to electric earlier than other manufacturers
@naturedetectiveminecraft6362They had a notoriously bad engine that’s now fixed and that’s about it. They’re great otherwise
Cracks me up how white vinyl seats have become a thing.
@@pasad335absolutely better than cheap ass dark cloth seats
21:48 that girl in the other car thought you were talking to her lol 😅😂
Lol indeed
On Jordon’s comments about pricing. I have been an advocate that kWh pricing was the wrong more at DCFC equipment. They should be priced at the maximum rate of the Charger output. If you pull up to a 350kW charger, you should pay like you pull 350kW, and if you pull up to a 50kW charger you should pay like you pull 50kW. This will get Bolts, ID.4’s and people who charge to 100% off the rapid chargers. And allows people who aren’t in a hurry to be encouraged to seek out slower cords which are more cost effective.
Let the infrastructure realize true revenue of installed capacity.
I remember when we were stoked to get 120KW on a v2 supercharger. :)
They go over 200 now? That's crazy, I didn't know that
@@0myv2 tops out at 150kW.
@@0mythere are 350kw chargers now. I believe the cyber truck can do v4 charging at 500
@a124as dang! 1.21GW!
I am liking how you guys are displaying the stats on screen now. It makes it easier to get the data!
This test shows why the fastest way to road trip with a Tesla is to charge from 10% to 60%
Not with an LFP battery 😅
With Teslas great arrival SOC calculator its even better and easier to get to the SUC with 5 % and below
5% to 60%
@@tjts1if I have the 2020 Standard Range Plus, does it charge faster than an LFP battery Tesla? I never been to a supercharger before in these past 4 years, but I will do so this Spring Break
@@JacksonWalter735 LFP is limited to 150a but it maintains that peak for much longer than NMC so it doesn't make sense to stop charging at 60%
Thanks for braving the wind chill. I appreciate the effort. That's what I like about both of these channels. What can we do to help people understand the why and how of the ever changing automotive frontier of EVs. There are so many smart people here to comment and add value to the test. Great work folks.
It will be interesting to see if the charging curves have any correlation with battery longevity.
Yes, I am under the impression that Tesla has such a curve to preserve the life of the battery. It will be interesting to see which brand battery lasts longer over many charge cycles.
I love the "Charging Started" voice on my Ioniq6.
@@dianewallace6064 It will say charging scheduled too. 😉
It scared the crap out of my wife when we first got our EV9. The voice is hilarious if you're not expecting it, in a quiet garage!
this is exactly what i was looking for!! thank you!!
I've noticed on very hot days, over 100°F, I can charge faster at a 150kw EA station than a 350kw station because the battery starts to overheat on that higher power while the 150kw doesn't heat the battery as much.
Flat curve all the way...this reminds me of that Gv70 electrified charging at 180 kw at 80% on your I90 surge. Fantastic!
Flat curve is nice, but peak is good for splash and dash tripping
Great video.
I’ve always said I bought my 22 Hyundai Ioniq 5 because it charges 3 to 4 minutes faster than a Tesla. I couldn’t quite believe that Tesla had been charging for 10 years or more in 2022 and Hyundai just came out of nothing and blew them away.
BUT, the fact that the Tesla gets 100 more miles of range…… the efficiency of the Tesla versus the Hyundai is also kind of amazing.
Yeah, the range difference is quite something. I wonder how much is aerodynamics vs circuitry -the Ioniq is quite a bit boxier :p
It isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison; they should be comparing the Ioniq 5 to the Model Y instead of the 3, since they are both marketed as CUVs. The range difference would be much less.
For those that rely on supercharging for all of their charging needs. This is really good to know that Tesla’s chargers are cheaper than EA. Definitely brings more equity in EV ownership.
Curve makes sense. The peak is used as a marketing gimmick. And the actual lower charge rate probably degrades the battery less as well as the chargers and transformers. Less heat and stress at all points.
Congrats Corbin on the 2025! I have to say I like the previous turbine looking wheels better than the new wheels on the 25 I5. That I5 has aged very well. Still looks great. Charging curve matters. Making the case for the eGMP cars even on Tesla SCs. Very nice! Some places should have banks of 50-62kw DCFC for places where you will be a while. Now if the I5 got the efficiency and range of that M3! Nice to know the I5 charging is still competitive even on Tesla SCs. We finally get 800v+ on Tesla and it should scream.
Ford lighting is like that too. 120kw to 80%
I agree about restaurants. I like finding ones with the Chargepoint 50 to 62kWh units. They are perfect for charging while eating. With a high speed charger, I usually have to jump up and move the car about the time the food arrives. Good video. It was fun listening to you guys.
Great point about the Miles-per-Charge Time… In a roadtrip race, the M3 will def be first to the finish line.
For a road trip race it should be vs the Ioniq 6 though. Both sleek sedans. The Ioniq 5 is only sleek compared to a Hummer 😅
Like the stats review on-screen at the end! Hope to see more of that in future videos.
In Canada, we have a company called Jule where we can pick 50KW, 100KW or 150KW charging levels.
Is there any logic behind it?
In Quebec, Electric Circuit has different rates for fast charging based on the charging speed reached by your EV. There are 5 rates : Under 20, 20-50, 50-90, 90-180 and over 180 kWh. Makes complete sense and works very well.
Makes sense today. But very quickly this will be overly complicated.
@@0my It's very simple actually. Electric Circuit applies rates automatically based on your charging speed, in real time. Nothing to do on the user end. Picking a slower charger will result in a cheaper charge, so that keeps older equipment relevant.
@fleecystheking it's not about the circuitry, it's about consolidation of produce SKUs for the business.
Nice work and great to see this and the results!
I work at Tesla and I talk about this all the time average power delivered is more important.
I keep saying there should be 3 profiles for charging.
Fast may reduce battery life and stress components fat 250 for a long time or even 300kw
Normal this curve you have optimized a bit
Chill. Just A nice average power because you want to change to a high SOC
Great idea to make it user selectable! I wouldn't want my M3LR charging at 250 the entire curve at every session. However, there are times when time is a high priority.
Did you see Elon throw up the heil Hitlers at the inauguration? You got your khaki pants and tiki torch and swastika ready to go, fanboy?
Thanks for testing it but if its not to much trouble it would be much nicer with the numbers on the screen while charging (like Bjørn from Norge).
The ionic 5 should be ccompared to Model Y, so it must be very close when measuring km or miles in the charging time.
One benefit to the Ionic will also be that you dont need to drive it as far down to get an ok charge speed you can go 40-80% if it fits with your trip.
Good ad for Ioniq 5 with NACS. Instead of getting another Tesla I will definitely look at the Ionic 5.
you should also look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5 recalls, crappy interior, and terrible software, lack of features on anything but top level trim! check out the out of spec detailing video of late. Better off with a Tesla or a Kia EV6!
The less efficiency of the Ioniq makes it slower than a Tesla (M3LR) for longer trips though. So it all depends on your driving needs
@@laxarus3259not really. On the i90 surge, the tesla only beat the ioniq 6 by a small margin, well within margin of error of them being tied. With the slower charging NACS now, maybe that changes (but it shouldn't, I don't think?).
Yes, do some research on the issues with the 12V and ICCU issues with Hyundai and Kia before buying.
@@laxarus3259seems a more appropriate comparison would be MY vs I5. Once Tesla upgrades to 800v, Ioniq will be much faster. Using Electrify America or other 800v locations today will already result in a faster I5 charge
Very useful information here, nice!
Very interesting charging comparison. Kudos to Hyundai for their excellent charging curve! Tesla really does need to address their horrible ramp down. The Hyundai would destroy the Tesla on high powered none Tesla chargers which is the more typical use case for the Hyundai. However, the most important factor isn't how long it takes to charge from 10-80%. What matters most is how much range you can add in X minutes. At the end of the day you're charging so you can reach a destination not to see an arbitrary SoC %. This is where the Tesla makes up a lot of ground on the Hyundai. It would blow away the Hyundai on the NACS charger on this test but would still likely fall short if the Hyundai was on a high power non-Tesla charger.
This is great information. I never knew about this before. Thanks for sharing
Excellent video, and so right to focus on charge curve band efficiency… imagine if Tesla would improve that charge curve, hey give us even 200kw to 50% what a monster of a car that would be…
Jordan is an excellent presenter, data crafter, content creator, summarizer, etc. Great to see TIG Collab.
My 2 favorite ev youtubers!!
+editor, drone pilot, car crasher etc. :D
In the Ioniq 5 the inverter of the motor is used as a boost converter.
The egmp cars when charging on a 400V charger don't have the power creep up as the "voltage creeps up" because there is no voltage creep. The car requests a set voltage from the charger (I see 425V on my EV9) and either the max current of the charger or up to the max current for the car (on my EV9, its 200A, it sounds like the new Ioniq5 is 300A). So, the power will just sit flat.
As far as the results, this is pretty much exactly what I was expecting. It's basically a tie between the 2 cars at around 30 minutes.
The range difference is also attributed to differently styled cars. One is a crossover and the other is a sleek sedan. The real range comparison would be between the 2025 Ioniq 6 and the Model 3.
Or Model Y instead of 3
This is Jordon's best video. Great job
Yeah, having a good curve is definitely key. I always wondered if pumping 650 amps in to a car makes it hit thermal limits too fast. And it’s too hard to recover from that. I have to assume that Tesla is constantly testing charging performance and what works best. But I may be wrong there, who knows with them. The e-GMP cars seem to have flat curves, but they have different curves at different segments of the charging.
Who knew EV charge racing would be almost exciting as Formula One racing? Hey the Ioniq 5 blew a tire so the race doesn't stop because of a blown tire - right? 😆 Great video!!
This shows the usefulness of calculus. A high peak power is great, but the integral of the charge curve (area under the curve) is clearly more important if a shorter time to charge is what you want.
The Ioniq 5's curve seems to be similar to the Kia EV3's curve. Makes sense.
Thanks for showing/explaining Tesla’s poor charge curve.
Great job guys!
Would love to see a better Tesla charging curve. If other cars can maintain a higher rate deeper into the pack, then why can’t Tesla?
Tesla does need to fix there charging curves. I would say they are doing it to protect the battery’s health but e-gmp cars haven’t been showing more derogation than Teslas. So I would love to hear from a Tesla engineer why they don’t have a flat curve like Hyundai.
I love the colour on the Ioniq 5!
I met both Franz and Lars at an event and spoke to both of them for about 15 minutes, got pictures with them etc. I was the guy that "introduced" pictures of the Performance Highland to Reddit back in April of 24, prompting everyone to use my shots. Lars and Franz were generally engaging and generous with their time. One thing I brought up was charging curves and specifically the BYD Blade battery that some Tesla's from the Berlin factory. Those Blade batteries have a much better charge curve as tested by Bjorn Nyland. Lars didn't really respond as if to say: Yeah, we know. But I've found, one of the critical aspects of fast charging is managing heat. The BYD Blade battery's structure allows for more effective cooling. So I'm hoping next generations of Tesla batteries will have better thermal stability.
I guess Tesla is conservative in charging to stay within safe parameters prioritising longevity. 800 volt systems (like this Ionic 5) will help "fix" this with our current battery types.
I'm hopeful that in the near future, we'll have: 800v traction, 48v low voltage, and steer by wire as standard. Oh, and Vehicle-to-Grid of course. Hope is a good thing, right?
so nice once again to get that 800V nonsense and fast charging, 800V only helps with wire size from charger to pack. In reality it only matters if you have very big pack and need more than 500A from charger at 400V class. The only place where "800V" helps is chargers with stupidly spec'ed low amperage cables.
@@asaha7547 There are other advantages. Because less current is needed in 800v systems, the cables and components in the vehicle can be thinner and smaller, reducing overall weight. Lower current flow also minimizes heat generation, which can lead to simpler and more effective cooling systems, enhancing battery longevity and reliability. Obviously, until the charging infrastructure has more 800+ volts systems, the advantages are less, but we'll get there.
@ Thank you for repeating that it only saves on thinner cables, but if cables are thinner you don't have less heat, you can't eat cake and have it... So once again 800V helps if you have cells that take a lot of charge (Taycan/EGMP) or you have lot of them 100+ kWh (trucks) where you really need >500V
@@asaha7547 I'm not saying thinner wires are the only benefit. The biggest advantage is faster charging. The wires from the charge port don't heat up as much, so we can use thinner, lighter wires there. When it comes to heat, it's really about the inverters and reducing losses in wires, connectors, and contact points. Less current means less heat, which also means less need for cooling.
Higher voltage makes power electronics like inverters work more efficiently. At higher voltages, there's less loss in the semiconductors, which helps keep things cooler.
I'm not ignoring the downsides of an 800V system; there are some. For example, performance might drop when the battery gets low, and balancing the battery becomes even more important. Also, parts that can handle 800V are costlier than those for 400V. But my 'dream' for future models to use 800V is driven by my desire for a 200-250 mile range boost in just 10-12 minutes of charging.
As a Tesla owner it’s sad to say that while Tesla has made great improvements in their cars in many ways over the years; they have made very little improvements in their charging curve or peak in over in over 6 years and the other automakers are surpassing them. Well said Jordan, hopefully they are watching take the advice. Tesla needs to improve their charging curve ASAP. Tesla makes a lot of improvement’s via OTA updates, charge curve improvement’s needs to be added to the top of their list.
What a horse race.
This is great.
I've been dreaming about full-size electric cars since about 1982. The current state of the industry is just unimaginably exciting. In 10 years, the gains have been phenomenal.. In another 5 to 10 years, it's going to be truly wild.
Of course, the primary indicator in advancements is usability, and battery functionality - which seems to be gaining pretty rapidly as well.
This is a fun, nerdy video. ❤❤❤
This is why I never understood the huge emphasis on peak charging speeds. Sure, you can sometimes get in and out in 10 minutes, but you're effectively doubling the number of charging stops you need to make. The average speed to add a usable amount of range seems far more important/valid, and it's easier to translate for the average consumer.
I'm used to the 1 minute remaining... then the "Calculating" after 1 minute for 1 more minute. Classic.
gah …. can’t wait for the ‘25 5’s in NY. Great vid Jordan. Thx.
I have had my Model Y prematurely end a charging session on the rare occasion. Nice test. Thanks for sharing.
Super interesting. Thank you. I guess that Hyundai solved the issue of cars with 800v charging architecture plugging into Tesla's 400v chargers. Kudos to Hyundai.
15:30 - Just shows that "once everything is NACS/Supercharger all charging problems will go away" is a laughable idea. Switching the plug isn't going to solve all charging glitches. Superchargers aren't foolproof. (I had plenty of charging errors/glitches with my Model S. The big advantage of the Supercharger network was that stations had enough stalls that if one or two erred out, you could move to another. EA stations with four stalls and two broken means only two working, and probably a line to use them. Supercharger with two broken stalls probably still has a dozen more working. That is solved by simply adding more stalls per station.)
@AnonymousFreakYT Yes, and there WILL be a Bolt or Leaf in the single working 350kW bay too...
@@jblyon2 Well, not a Leaf in the 350, because none of the CHAdeMO dispensers have >150kW for the CCS side.
Other possibility is a VW or Hyundai charging to 100%.
@@jblyon2 forget about bolts. We now have Amazon delivery vans taking up EA chargers. Any my niro wouldn't work on one stall. But the same stall worked just fine with a mach e 5 min later.
Go figure.
@@sprockkets Charging up to 100% at 33kW. I've had to wait for 45 min while the Amazon van finished topping up at the only working station.
@@AnonymousFreakYTlucky for us the Bolt can now charge at superchargers! Every brand with low voltage cars that opens SuC access is one fewer car for me to wait for at EA. The Ultium cars even charge better at SuC than EA so they should look for it.
Thanks Jordan and Corbin, I did not know you could park a Ioniq 5 in the normal charging spot (same as a Tesla) and the cable can reach outstanding!
Great comparison. Had to just listen, got dizzy from the very dynamic video :)
cool test! Would like to see a rematch with proper preconditioned batteries, and starting from 10% and without any interruptions.
Nice vid, boo on TSLA!!
Charging kW (average) and kWh/min added are a testament to the HV architecture and battery pack/cells; clearly, the Hyundai eGMP won.
Miles added/min is a testament to the overall vehicle design and efficiency with respect to all road loads, which Tesla won.
Agree, their comparing the areo dynamic profile of a salon vs a suv, the boxier one will suffer on a miles per minute of charge basis. If they had compared the model 3 with the Ioniq 6 the point would have been a more relevant comparison.
Great point about efficiency. Just throwing a bigger battery at the problem isn’t so much fun when you have to charge it at $0.50+/kWh!
I wonder if the OTA NACS charging bugfix from the EV9 hasn't been developed for the new Ioniq 5 yet. That could've explained the charging dropout. Expect an update! I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same exact issue, but the '25 hasn't been out long enough for them to develop the OTA fix yet.
Search SA601 for the Kia service bulletin explaining the issue with the rear inverter interference causing charging dropouts. "May unexpectedly end an EV charging session when using a Tesla Supercharger station due to signal interference with the vehicle’s inverter."
sounds exactly like what Corbin experienced -- I bet the '25 Ioniq 5 will be capable to get an OTA for this now that it has the ccNC infotainment
Musk remotely making the Ioniq5 stop charging to favor Model3 chance of winning! :-P
Surprised he hasn’t called anyone a pedo yet
I’ve tested today and others have that that older Kia (ev6 2022 in my case) also can currently charge on tesla superchargers with adaptor. Just select Ioniq 5 in the app.
the 2025 ioniq 6 se rwd will bet this tesla in range.. thats the car to get
Yea but it’s ugly as fuck
So basically the refreshed ioniq 6 should be a beast and perfect as an affordable EV with its larger battery and better charge curve on 400v stations.
I was thinking this when he was going on about the efficency. The 2 vehicles aren't in the same category at all. Felt like there had to be some sort of positive tesla spin to wrap things up.
By the time the refreshed I6 comes out Tesla should be rolling out actual 1000V capable units. So this whole boondoggle might not even be a concern.
@@jaymac4448 agreed Tesla is still more efficient but not drastically so over comparable Korean EVs.
@@DemoR better get it done within the next 6 months.
The more Battery videos I watch, the more I realize Tesla‘s horrible curve is due to their own software design. In order to keep the longevity of their batteries this is a feature, not a bug. We will see how long Porsche and Hyundai’s batteries will last after tons of supercharging. Tesla can handle lots of supercharging because of how they manage their curve.
The jokes. I have a bigger peak but you can hold your peak longer. The best size matters joke accidentally told.
If Hyundai change all their ev cars to NACS probably switch over to hyundai ev car next! Or convince my wife to get hyundai Ioniq 5 telling her it uses same home charger lol
there is a benefit to having it on the passenger side and that is street side parking.
Awesome!!!!!
Another option instead of tiered charging speeds... The chargers could have a charging valet. You pull up and if there is a line you park and give your key to the valet. They would move your car to the charger when it is your turn and notify you to start the charge via the app. When charging is done they move your car. With this valet you wouldn't have to wait in line or worry about idle fees so you can shop and/or eat at your leisure.
@350Kw charger my Ioniq 6 will hit a 227 peak here in the UK and hold it until around 60% IF the battery is hot. I have seen 10 to 80% in 15 minutes in the summer. However, in the winter it takes an age to get the battery to even 35c and 74Kw
Congrats on the new ride Corbin
You guys are like serious version of Mac and Charlie on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
there are 2 groups of drivers. drivers that charging curve matters over everything else, and drivers that are never delayed by charging.
Jordan/Corbin... My 24 I5 stops all the time on Magic Docks... App always says move to new charger but just replugging in always works.
Makes you wonder why the jumped onto they NACS port so early when it is clearly so much slower on Superchargers vs at CCS stations. 32min vs 18min for 10-80 is significant and now you need an adapter anyways to access the faster CCS chargers.
Very glad it preconditions IONIQ 5 deeper into the pack
The curve matters far more than the peak !!
Why is it that in Canada my ionic 5 2025 dos not have the NAS or Tesla connecting port ?
Superchargers in the Austin area are almost all $.42 24/7, only a handful have peak and off peak charging.
M3 RWD LR = 25 kW/100 miles; weight = 3891 lbs; 18" wheels
I5 Limited AWD = 32 kW/100 miles (per EPA rating on 2025 window sticker); wgt= 4663 lbs; 20" wheels.
~100 mile range difference in favoe of the M3 RWD LR, similar size battery packs.
Good video. Wondering when the CCS Hyundais can charge on Tesla with adapters.
Was supposed to be yesterday. Got delayed. Still supposed to be Q1, but I'll believe it when I see it, since we missed the originally announced timeline.
There are reports saying Hyundai vehicles can already charge at Tesla superchargers with a DC adapter. I personally have a Hyundai Kona EV, and when I use the Tesla app to search for superchargers, I get more results when I say I have an adapter, than when I say I don’t have an adapter.
Yesterday. It is working.
@@UnnDunn I have an IONIQ5 and an adapter (Lectron Vortex), and I see the same thing you do in the Tesla app. BUT... I physically went and tested and was not able to charge. I think ONLY 2025 model year IONIQ5 can charge on Supercharger today, and every other HKG vehicle is still blocked.
@@fiehlsport I don't think that's right. But if you've done it yourself in the real world on a non-[Magic Dock Supercharger] with a non-[2025 IONIQ5], I'll have to admit I was wrong.
The car that stopped charging would be a bigger issue if you were in the store and not out there to restart it. Reliability is a large factor that leans towards Tesla being better.
The app would've told you once it stopped. Also this is a Telsa supercharging issue when it comes to Hyundai and Kia cars. This doesn't happen on any other charging network like EA. I'm sure this issue will be fixed but as if right now it's an inconvenience if anything.
@@volcalstoneThe Hyundai doesn't compare. Wait until they refresh the M3 later this year.
@@akennedystocks I think you meant MY and not M3. The only Telsa that I like is the MS Plaid tho so no thanks. I currently have an EV6 GT and loving it!
@@volcalstone No, they are going to refresh the Model Y and then Model 3.
Don't do gas anymore. It is a prehistoric waste of dinosaur juice. Loud, smelly, dirty and costly. My garage has never been so clean. Plus I don't need loud noises to get me excited except in the bedroom.
@@akennedystocks they just refreshed the M3 thus year so I doubt they will do anything new for a while. The point is not to make them look the same anymore. ICE cars still had a place imo. EVs aren't perfect right now and they won't be until we could charge them up in 5 mins comparable to gas cars. I'll even take 10 mins really.
Best I've seen on my Equinox EV at a Supercharger is 56.55kWh delivered in 30 minutes. The EQEV must have a bigger battery pack, because that was something like 20-80% for me.
One of my first charging sessions with my Tesla Model Y just randomly stopped charging while I was using the restroom. I didn't know it had stopped charging until I was done and returned to my car. Thankfully, that has been the only time that happened in the 3.5 years of ownership.
Super happy to see NACS native ports on non-Tesla cars although Ionic sticking with the wrong side was an odd choice. I think at V4/magic dock places, the cables will be long enough, but not sure about other places.
Two thoughts:
1) My 2021 Model 3 LR it takes, almost, twice as long to from 50% to 80% as it does from 10% to 50%. On a road trip I, usually, charge to 50%.
2) I think that the miles vs charging time is a more important metric than battery % vs charging time.
I've accidentally stopped charging via the Tesla app as they have a big button at the bottom to stop charging and I brushed my finger across it.
I guess it really comes down to how long you have to go from charger to charger. The E-GMP platform is really built for those 20 min charge stops with ~150 mile stretches in between. Tesla is a lot more optimized for ~15 minute stops with 80-120 miles in between, but the key is really your route having the right spacing. E-GMP is much more forgiving if there's poor infrastructure and you need to make a 150-180 mile stretch between chargers.
I think as NACS becomes the standard and non-Tesla networks have longer NACS cables and better positioned equipment, charge port location won't matter anymore.
I'd charge at a supercharger just for the gameplan to spend 30min at Buc-ee's -- so much better than the vibe at a Walmart parking lot dumpster
13:45 that's an awesome idea! If rewarded by paying less, sure if it fits the need.
So essentially they tied. 1.5 minutes is very close in the grand scheme of things. So the question is what is better for the battery long term? A curve or a sustained 100-125 kwh? In theory, having a curve is easier on the battery but I suppose that depends on the battery chemistry.
I recognize the OOS guy by the way he says "Tezla."