Already hit this one twice heading to LA from San Diego, it's fantastic. Loved that the Gelsons had a good assortment of snacks and also some car accessories. We picked up some fancy yogurt and washer fluid! V4s worked great with our XC40 with the A2Z adapter.
Love this!! Finally they're understanding a proper business model that is not reinventing the wheel! You're a convenience store that just so happens to also offer EV charging. Just like a convenience store that just so happens to sell gasoline. I would like to see more pull through charging stations just like we have with gasoline stations, us Americans like towing stuff! And it's a good way to future proof the layout of your location as more EV trucks get released. I would also like to see them explore ad supported revenue options as a way to lower ev charging costs, the entire EV charging industry needs to adopt this model. Volta charging IMHO was ahead of its time! Love the battery onsite storage and the potential business model of selling excess energy back to the grid. Great video Kyle and if you haven't considered it, might be time to do your own out of spec pullovers!
Completely not enough. Malls should be installing chargers in parking lots.... The biz model of trying to turn a parking lot into a mall will never satisfy enough folks to work. We already have malls. Rove (or someone) should be installing there... And retailers are dumb not to incentive free-to-cheap charging
I never really understood the Volta business model. If the revenue comes from the ads, not the charger, it begs the question of why even bother with the chargers at all vs. simply run electronic billboards in parking lots? After all, this is a business we're talking about, not a charity to promote EV adoption. I can kind of see how, back in 2010, when EVs were so rare, that the shear novelty of an EV charger would draw attention and attract eyeballs to the ad in a way that wouldn't work with a pure sign. Particularly, given that cars back then had very limited range, so someone with a home charger driving to the store might need the Volta to get back home, and that the charger itself might be paid for by some government "EV promotion" grant, rather than Volta, itself. But, EVs are way past where they were in 2010, and I don't think this kind of logic makes sense in the present world.
Ya, it's great, Kyle just said, "How are they going to survive ??? So if they're not making money, is it being funded like the WNBA !!! so is there a way to have these but be totally profitable !!!
At the moment there isn’t a lot of price competition among fast charging providers. It’s understandable as each of them is often the only choice in a ten mile radius. We won’t see ‘power (pricing) wars’ the way there were Gas Wars until there’s competing stations within sight distance with visible pricing signs.
32:32 as a grid operator, they are likely selling electricity both to consumers and also to the energy markets. Buy low and sell high both on grid side and demand side. Very smart. That is why they have such large storage capacity.
@@PierreAlainMairefrom a grid connection? It's four wire primary so probably 21kv at 200 amps so about 7.5MW. BESS as Kyle said is typically 2MWH per container for 6MWH with space for another 2MWH.
@@patrickmay8261 my question was about how much solar power (max power = panels number x individual max power) was installed. Thanks for the numbers, that's quite a lot in the end 😳
This is great. I commute on this freeway and I can’t wait to charge here and check out the store too. Thanks for spreading the word! We need more stations like this, please!
Kroger needs to start doing stuff like this. Rows and rows of chargers, tons of solar panels on top, and a cafe inside the grocery store. I see that being the future.
Not anywhere near LA, but I would GLADLY pay premium price for premium features this site offers: Clean restrooms, security, HEALTHY FOOD, vacuums - if I needed to public charge in the area as a traveler or even resident with no home charging. Last month they were re-paving my street and I didn’t have access to my driveway for a few weeks and had to public charge. Would have loved a place like this. My husband commented that public charging was expensive especially if you factor in the margaritas at the only nearby restaurant while we waited. So……
Gelson’s is NOT regular California pricing… they’re known to be very much on the higher end regarding grocery prices. So that $7 gummy bear pack is prob $3 elsewhere… nothing in Gelson’s is remotely close to regular CA prices!
@@mbergamin16 Oh right, because spending $80k on a lifted F-250 with 38-inch tires that never sees dirt, rolling coal with stack exhausts, and plastering the back window with 'Let's Go Brandon' stickers isn't virtue signaling at all? At least EV drivers are 'virtue signaling' by checks notes saving money on gas and maintenance while getting better performance. Funny how it's 'virtue signaling' when someone buys an EV that does 0-60 in 3 seconds and costs less to operate, but it's somehow totally practical when someone modifies their truck to get 8 MPG and never haul anything besides their fragile ego. And speaking of 'wasting money' - how much are you spending on gas and oil changes every year? My 'virtue signaling' EV costs about $30/month to charge and has zero maintenance besides tires. But hey, keep telling yourself we're the ones wasting money while you pump $150 into your tank every week.
Thank you Kyle for being critical of any of these vendors, from vehicles to chargers, from charging centers to service centers, your coming from a good place and a thoughtful place with your criticisms. Keep up the great work.
With that storage, PV and time of use charges for the area in California, odds are those batteries are a massive arbitrage hedge. Charge the batteries at ~$0.18 at night, run the station on solar during the low demand times during the day, and sell power back at $0.50 kWh peak evenings.
These are the kinds of facilities that are needed to boost confidence in the charging infrastructure. I also like that real people are on-site to resolve problems and guide those needing help. EV sales in California are increasing, making it easier for EV owners to trust that they can charge as quickly as filling up at a gas station. Thanks for a great video.
In California there is a solar surplus mid day where power plant operators sometimes have to pay other utilities to take the excess energy (cheaper than shutting down the power plant). The state really wants people to start installing battery packs to start storing this excess energy. Arizona got $69 million in free energy from California last year and Arizona customers got a rebate.
And yet California rate payers got higher power bills. Seems like the incentive to use power within this state when it is plentiful isn’t there. Right now for example the difference in price between on peak and off peak is only $0.03 per KwH.
But wouldn't the best solution be level 2 charging at your work? Most people with a car work somewhere - and if you work somewhere, you park somewhere. Chargers at work locations mean you don't need chargers at every appointment and condo. Plus, since most folks work during the day, we can soak up all the cheapest power from daytime solar. In CA, the cheapest power is from about 8am to 2pm. That's when your car should be on a lvl2 at work.
That would be ideal, but not every employer is willing to put chargers in their parking lots. We need catch-all solutions that guarantee anyone the ability to charge their cars no matter what, regardless of where they live or whom they work for. And, the only realistic way to have a catch-all solution is public DC fast charging.
Another big issue in CA is the cost to install charging equipment. If your parking lot is not currently up to code for accessibility, it will require those improvements. What was a maybe $20-30k project just became $100,000 project.
With road trip dc fast charging, I'm happy to pay a little more for an upscale experience with both food, drinks and charging. I don't road trip or use public chargers that often so I'm okay with higher prices.
Agreed. About 90%+ of my charging is at home. Really cheap! On those occasions I do go on road trips (1,000 miles or more r/t), the higher costs for charging hardly put a dent in my annual savings - I still come out far ahead. Once again, my EV does not limit me - it frees me to go where I want, when I want!
I would guess they want to do the arbitrage with the batteries and solar. That is very good profit strategy in CA. I use it on small scale on my home solar/battery system. For me I charge the battery while the rate is .22 cents and discharge when rate is .43 cents. Also reducing peak charges really reduces costs in CA.
So how long to pay for the battery system purely on what you’re making in arbitrage? If you have solar and batteries I can surely see the benefit of putting as much into the batteries as possible during the day and selling back as much as you can afford during peak demand periods.. only power your stuff off batteries during peak pricing. Because those ‘free’ solar KWh going into the batteries will sell back for more than you’d pay to power your stuff from the grid at that time.
I feel like those battery packs are likely cost control and/or how they make profit. If they could charge those packs at night, then during the day charge the consumers to charge their cars at "prime time day rate" even tho the site itself got the power from the grid at the lower rate the night before.
That's exactly why they are there. Plus they will want them to last through the entire peak time of four hours so they are only looking at 1.25mwh per hour. If the Tesla station is maxed out it's going to be pulling twice that, not included what the Rove side will be doing. Looks like they also have room for another BESS. And the cheapest power of the day is mid morning to mid afternoon.
It's the same as a gas station build out, millions of dollars spent between the massive underground tank, the building, and the pumps. I don't think most people realize the cost of a single gas station because they've been around for awhile. The income doesn't come from the gas itself, it comes from the convenience store. We need level 2 charging at grocery stores, most people could get most of their charge from passive level 2 charging at places they're already going to.
Ayeee I was just there a few days before you posted this! The CCS chargers were overpriced at like $.60/kWh whereas the V3.5 Superchargers were at $.39 which was a no brainer. Lol
You ask how it's profitable, the answer is that grocery store. The chargers are just what gets people in the door. This is also why they let Tesla set up chargers there
Grocery shopping is absolutely the perfect match for EV charging. But I mean a real grocery store. You need to do both once or twice a week. Each takes 30 to 40 minutes. And because you're spending that much time the chargers don't have to be super high powered. 60kW would be perfect and then you can put in more medium powered chargers rather than just a few high-powered. If this were a grocery store, something like Trader Joe's I would shop there a heck of a lot more often while charging my car. I'd be more likely to go across town to where the charging is at, whereas what I do now is just go to the closest Aldi or one of the chain groceries because they are much closer. THAT is where the profit is at.
"I'd be more likely to go across town to where the charging is at, whereas what I do now is just go to the closest Aldi or one of the chain groceries because they are much closer." Sounds good on paper, but given everything I've heard about LA traffic, that feels like a tough sell. There is a reason why, in the ICE world, we have gas stations everywhere, rather than expecting everyone to drive 10+ miles out of the way to a large fueling hub.
One of my favorite EV charging stations i been to and close by my Office. BTW I currently live in a Condo without access to EV charging daily Tesla Model 3 LFP ever since this ROVE open I been charging there at least once a week.
Agreed with others about being excited to see large, high amenity, covered DCFC locations. Sad that Rove is only for California, but Happy that IONNA is coming to me in Texas!
Definitely needed in southern California! I almost went to the grand opening, but it's not close to me in West Los Angeles. I feel that they (Rove) is starting with a cheaper location then will open up other, more expensive locations in southern California. I heard the old radio station KMPC in Burbank is now for sale (something like 17 acres of undeveloped land), maybe we'll get a Rove there! I agree with Kyle on the whole Gelson's being a high-end grocery store and it not being the best for a pit-stop charging location. But as is known, "Time is $", so maybe the thought is that if you spend more time in the store, the more $ you'll end up spending with charging, using the restroom, washing your car, etc.
$0.64/kWh is what the EA one mile down the road charges without subscription. That's pretty common in California but now we're seeing time variable pricing.
Sorry, but in Europe ABB used to be the abbreviation for Always Be Broken for their chargers. I hope they got their act together now. If possible, I try to avoid them. Big CPO‘s have changed their hardware to other manufacturers like Alpitronics.
This definitely looks like the next step in the EV journey. While the upscale foods and amenities might not work for all, imagine a more average-priced version with all the usual sodas, chips, etc. It's coming, I'm certain.
Jordan’s a TH-cam star! He was also on Patrick & Liv’s video. I met him in person when I went to Rove and he is very nice even when there isn’t a camera around 😊
@@chargepozitive There's more than one?! I met the one that was in this video. When I went to Rove he immediately came up to ask if I needed help, and he was pretty tickled that I recognized him from Patrick & Liv's video.
What a good installation. This is what we need a lot more of. I think hardware prices need to drop in order to make it more feasible for a lot of smaller businesses. Still, 50+ cents per kWh is absurd but oh well.
@ yep, that’s exactly what I was talking about the other day as a matter of fact. It’s negligible at this point. Do we need more power or what do we need to do to get the prices down? Or like you said, just more competition?
I loved this location, I went through here when I was traveling from San Diego to LA last month. Great experience, and I had 0 issues charging. I just wish they had more mainstream grocery stores instead because it was pretty expensive. But I do like that they do have great vegan snacks here. The mushroom jerky was great.
Yo, the cost of those gummies isn’t California, it’s Gelsons. You can get charge for 35¢ all over. This place is in Anaheim/Santa Ana… Disney is literally 5 mins down the road hence the cost
Yeah, probably playing the utility game. It looks like a Ev charging station. But really it’s battery power plant. There’s a lot of drama about a battery power plant that caught fire in San Diego. But by saying it’s for EVs it gives them cover and easy permitting. Genius.
Agree. And, an additional side benefit is that, during utility power outages, the chargers can continue to work for at least a few hours, using the batteries. The batteries can even supply backup power to not just the chargers, but also the lounge and store.
Thought the same thing. Electricity can be acquired in the CA market at very low rates when the solar power generation ramps up midday. Then rates are quite high at other times of the day, especially in that 4PM - 9PM window. CA wants to store more of that midday solar power for use at different times of the day but NIMBY issues make that challenging. However to claim this is a project for EVs quiets many NIMBY types and maybe converts some potential NIMBYs into advocates. I can definitely imagine why they are focused on CA first, as this particular utility game is not as common outside of California. And perhaps that is why the private investors want to stay silent investors as their names and business objectives may motivate NIMBY types and discourage local EV advocates.
Great site need more like that. They must be playing the utility game with that amount of storage. That would make that place very profitable even in the short run and once there are even more ev’s than the ports are the only limit
Hard to say. Just the Tesla SC (2.5MW connection) could deplete those batteries in a little over 2 hours. That doesn't include the Rove stalls. The solar canopy won't even cover a single stall at max power.
That looks great I was hoping that we would get some here it looks similar to the grid serve in the UK. I'm surprised that you didn't mention that there is no pull through if you're pulling a trailer. Think there would be a lot of travelers in Southern California that are pulling a trailer. Thank you for another great video.
I disagree on the battery storage. A site this large should always have battery storage to shave off the peak demand (which saves money), utilize solar energy for cheaper charging, and provide a backup for energy outages or degradations. There's 28 V4 posts there. If they upgrade those cabinets to V4, then just the Tesla Superchargers could pull up to 3.6 MW at once.
So this is in Santa Ana in Orange County, which is like 15 mi south of Los Angeles. Maybe you could be a little more specific early on rather than just saying Southern California. That's like 33,000 square miles of territory and something like 190 cities.
Kyle. You are missing an income stream in this setup. In the daytime in California there is so much grid solar that the wholesale price of electricity is almost zero and in some situations it's possible to be paid. So the battery banks can be charged for minimal cost and then used by the chargers at a very high% mark up. Also they will be putting the solar from the caponies into the battery bank. So long term they will have good steady income
The Electrify America installation in Baker, CA also has 12 CCS chargers, and unlike this installation, they have pull-through charging bays. And there's also a huge Supercharger station on the site, plus it's at a Shell station with restaurants on site. I mean, this is cool, but I don't see it solving the LA charging situation. It's just a large charging installation.
Wouldn't they be using the batteries for all the solar power that they are generating to sell back to the utility two offset their overhead? So wish we had this in Tampa.
So cool to see the collaboration with Tollak! Would be great to do more with him. Loved stopping by Rove on my recent roadtrip. Best charging stop I’ve ever been to.
Great content as always, glad to see u made it to this location. There’s also a Rove coming shortly to Torrance, it’s off the 405 and western. So far it’s a shake shack and Chick-fil-A there.
I commute by train to LA, saw that location being built from scratch. The only things it's missing is a sidewalk taco stand and a typical Santa Ana "massage parlor" outfit 😀
So you can Google for a second and find out Rove is funded mostly from the US Department of Transportation. Private partners include. NEVI and Pioneer Power for most of the equipment.
Would take more spots for an hour or two each, they likely don't want that or car campers/Uber drivers (they pay $1500/mo for car lease and sleep in car)
That area is gentrifying at lightning speed…..the building across the street was an original Earl Scheib $99.95 paint job body shop back in the day, this was industrial area.🥲….average home price now, 854k
Dedicated stations wld be awesome. It wld be be even cooler if businesses wld help offset the charging costs by store purchases or vice versa, ie a Starbucks charge station that offers discount drinks or discount charge rate for drink purchases.
Southern CA needs 100s of charging parks like Rove. I would gladly pay the $0.58 per kW as gas runs $5.89+ per gallon in SoCal so EVs are still at least 60% cheaper vs gas. It is also nice to see a higher end store like Recharge by Gelson's vs junk that gas stations offer. The products offered meet the needs of a road trip as well as grabbing items to take home, your hotel room or to friends your visiting. EV owners get an elevated experience by owning an EV vs ICE, charging amenities should also be elevated. Can't wait to use Rove on our next trip to Santa Ana area. We have 2024 EV9 GT and BMW iX M60 so both can be charged at Rove. Wish we could get a Rove charging park in the Palm Springs and San Diego areas. Good coverage, thank you Kyle.
Does anyone have any insight into Tesla's decision to not activate magic docks in the vast majority of their v4 dispenser installs? I'm sure Rove appreciates their decision on this case.
Nice electric G. I am sureprised by the price/Kwh. It is like in Germany. I thought in the US electricity was always much cheaper. So good to see the infrastructure is developing. So fantastic weather in the middle of December? Some day i have to take a holiday vacation in the USA with my family.
Electricity in California is crazy expensive compared to elsewhere in the country-during the 4-9pm peak, even residential power rates in some places like San Diego can hit 70c/kWh. Kyle mentioned in the video that he pays 7c/kWh at his home in Colorado. I pay about 13c/kWh in Missouri. Some people in the Pacific Northwest (where cheap hydropower is plentiful) pay even less. The electric rates in California are due to a confluence of factors, including poor corporate governance by the major for-profit utilities there (see: PG&E), ineffective state regulation (see: Enron), deferred maintenance, fire risk mitigation, and environmental regulations, plus everything in the state being absurdly expensive due to poor zoning laws that have created a massive housing shortage.
Recycling and composting required by law Baby changing in hallway as well as sink, smart The new standard is having a lux lounge if you're paying more than gas to charge They likely got millions in taxpayer help for the batteries and there's a bonus for doing it in poor neighborhoods.
Awesome charing location, has great options and amenities. I am sure they will be successful. One comment i hear all the time about how bad the experience is charging at the back of a Walmart parking lot.. couple things.. correct not enough chargers, and half of them are broken. BUT.. think about the location. You are at a WALMART.. they have everything, and usually a restaurant inside. These charging sites were put in PRE Pandemic when Walmart was open 24 hrs. So the experience is way worse now. Nothing to do, and in the dark back side of a parking lot.
Have you seen the gridserve electric forecourt model in the UK? Similar co location with a shop, car leasing, gym, meeting spaces for hire and toilets.
Why would you choose rove cabinets after every mfg has NACS? Two reasons: 1. You own an eGMP which can only charge at 60kW on 400v (I trust Tesla exactly zero to ever have 1000v v4s) 2. You have a giant battery truck, then you need a CCS1 adapter for 600 amps sustained on the dedicated 350s.
Yeah, I have a GV60 so I was thinking exactly this. However, it can do better than 60kW - I've used magic docks twice and got 97kW both times. The good news is that the charging curve was completely flat - it pulled 97kW all the way up to 83% SOC. So it's actually not that bad - about 32 minutes for 10-80%. But yeah, I'd definitely prefer a 350 or even 175 CCS charger. (Since Rove is only 40 miles from my home where I have Level 2 charging, it's a moot point for me anyway.)
@ the issue with Electrify America is their inability to keep their chargers running consistently. More often than not, either some of the chargers are down, or they operate well below the advertised charging speeds. I will admit that their recent 350kW chargers have been much better and at least where I live, the new equipment is performing far better than what used to be there. They still occasionally have a charger or two down, but the ones that are working are delivering 300+ kW most of the time. As for Walmart, I refuse to frequent an establishment that openly takes advantage of their employees and games the system to put a lot of them on welfare when their business experiences slowdowns.
32:05 or just charge different prices at different time intervals like they do in china. basically cheapest after 11pm until 6 am, then 12 pm would be maybe 3x.
We need this model to work!!! Great seeing you there Kyle!
Great camera work, Tollak!!
I would 100% feel safe charging here and in exchange I would absolutely spend money even if it costs a bit more.
@@roberthicks686 way more for the charging and for the food too
Dude, there’s literally 24 hour security staff present and you’re Male.. why wouldn’t you feel safe?
Already hit this one twice heading to LA from San Diego, it's fantastic. Loved that the Gelsons had a good assortment of snacks and also some car accessories. We picked up some fancy yogurt and washer fluid! V4s worked great with our XC40 with the A2Z adapter.
Love this!! Finally they're understanding a proper business model that is not reinventing the wheel! You're a convenience store that just so happens to also offer EV charging. Just like a convenience store that just so happens to sell gasoline. I would like to see more pull through charging stations just like we have with gasoline stations, us Americans like towing stuff! And it's a good way to future proof the layout of your location as more EV trucks get released. I would also like to see them explore ad supported revenue options as a way to lower ev charging costs, the entire EV charging industry needs to adopt this model. Volta charging IMHO was ahead of its time! Love the battery onsite storage and the potential business model of selling excess energy back to the grid. Great video Kyle and if you haven't considered it, might be time to do your own out of spec pullovers!
Exactly, just like Safeway gas discounts, I've always said this
No one's doing any real towing with an EV truck 😂 they would need these places everywhere
Completely not enough. Malls should be installing chargers in parking lots.... The biz model of trying to turn a parking lot into a mall will never satisfy enough folks to work. We already have malls. Rove (or someone) should be installing there... And retailers are dumb not to incentive free-to-cheap charging
I never really understood the Volta business model. If the revenue comes from the ads, not the charger, it begs the question of why even bother with the chargers at all vs. simply run electronic billboards in parking lots? After all, this is a business we're talking about, not a charity to promote EV adoption.
I can kind of see how, back in 2010, when EVs were so rare, that the shear novelty of an EV charger would draw attention and attract eyeballs to the ad in a way that wouldn't work with a pure sign. Particularly, given that cars back then had very limited range, so someone with a home charger driving to the store might need the Volta to get back home, and that the charger itself might be paid for by some government "EV promotion" grant, rather than Volta, itself. But, EVs are way past where they were in 2010, and I don't think this kind of logic makes sense in the present world.
Ya, it's great, Kyle just said, "How are they going to survive ??? So if they're not making money, is it being funded like the WNBA !!! so is there a way to have these but be totally profitable !!!
This is how it should be at the very least - a canopy. Well done Rove
@@suddeneye9836 cities can require solar canopies
I love this location! The staff are always so friendly, the inside is always clean
Most gasoline stations don't make money on gas. It's all about groceries. It's probably the same for this Rove station.
@@stevekight1955 overpriced trinkets and snacks for rich/careless people
At the moment there isn’t a lot of price competition among fast charging providers. It’s understandable as each of them is often the only choice in a ten mile radius.
We won’t see ‘power (pricing) wars’ the way there were Gas Wars until there’s competing stations within sight distance with visible pricing signs.
Backing up in a car wash… Such a Kyle move..
32:32 as a grid operator, they are likely selling electricity both to consumers and also to the energy markets. Buy low and sell high both on grid side and demand side. Very smart. That is why they have such large storage capacity.
Maybe it helps to store/regulate solar energy, too. I wonder how much power is installed.
Maybe enough solar to charge 1 car at a time. It is mostly there for aesthetics and to cover the vehicles charging.
@@PierreAlainMairefrom a grid connection? It's four wire primary so probably 21kv at 200 amps so about 7.5MW.
BESS as Kyle said is typically 2MWH per container for 6MWH with space for another 2MWH.
@@patrickmay8261 my question was about how much solar power (max power = panels number x individual max power) was installed. Thanks for the numbers, that's quite a lot in the end 😳
@@nathanielthelin1051 better than nothing :-) it probably covers more than the need for AC, fridges and lights 😄
This is great. I commute on this freeway and I can’t wait to charge here and check out the store too.
Thanks for spreading the word! We need more stations like this, please!
Kroger needs to start doing stuff like this. Rows and rows of chargers, tons of solar panels on top, and a cafe inside the grocery store. I see that being the future.
@@pole-star2118 a grocery store would be huge as the prices are competitive
This is probably the type of charger locations we need across America.
Not anywhere near LA, but I would GLADLY pay premium price for premium features this site offers: Clean restrooms, security, HEALTHY FOOD, vacuums - if I needed to public charge in the area as a traveler or even resident with no home charging. Last month they were re-paving my street and I didn’t have access to my driveway for a few weeks and had to public charge. Would have loved a place like this. My husband commented that public charging was expensive especially if you factor in the margaritas at the only nearby restaurant while we waited. So……
Gelson’s is NOT regular California pricing… they’re known to be very much on the higher end regarding grocery prices. So that $7 gummy bear pack is prob $3 elsewhere… nothing in Gelson’s is remotely close to regular CA prices!
These are EV drivers, they have no problem wasting thier money if it makes them feel good or gives them a 'perception'
@@mbergamin16 Poverty is a disease
@@mbergamin16 Oh right, because spending $80k on a lifted F-250 with 38-inch tires that never sees dirt, rolling coal with stack exhausts, and plastering the back window with 'Let's Go Brandon' stickers isn't virtue signaling at all?
At least EV drivers are 'virtue signaling' by checks notes saving money on gas and maintenance while getting better performance.
Funny how it's 'virtue signaling' when someone buys an EV that does 0-60 in 3 seconds and costs less to operate, but it's somehow totally practical when someone modifies their truck to get 8 MPG and never haul anything besides their fragile ego.
And speaking of 'wasting money' - how much are you spending on gas and oil changes every year? My 'virtue signaling' EV costs about $30/month to charge and has zero maintenance besides tires. But hey, keep telling yourself we're the ones wasting money while you pump $150 into your tank every week.
@@joemcdonough7509 👍👍 These ICE drivers would have argued that transitioning from horses to horseless carriages was a waste of money.
@@joemcdonough7509Brutal. 😂
Glad out of spec got a chance to see this location 🎉
Thank you Kyle for being critical of any of these vendors, from vehicles to chargers, from charging centers to service centers, your coming from a good place and a thoughtful place with your criticisms. Keep up the great work.
This is nearby and we just bought a mach e, will try this out.
Great to see a company understanding & answering the user's needs ! Thanks for the tour ! I hope the economics are good.
He is commenting on grocery prices but then says “I never go grocery shopping”. This is the most gen z video ever
With that storage, PV and time of use charges for the area in California, odds are those batteries are a massive arbitrage hedge.
Charge the batteries at ~$0.18 at night, run the station on solar during the low demand times during the day, and sell power back at $0.50 kWh peak evenings.
These are the kinds of facilities that are needed to boost confidence in the charging infrastructure. I also like that real people are on-site to resolve problems and guide those needing help. EV sales in California are increasing, making it easier for EV owners to trust that they can charge as quickly as filling up at a gas station. Thanks for a great video.
In California there is a solar surplus mid day where power plant operators sometimes have to pay other utilities to take the excess energy (cheaper than shutting down the power plant). The state really wants people to start installing battery packs to start storing this excess energy. Arizona got $69 million in free energy from California last year and Arizona customers got a rebate.
And yet California rate payers got higher power bills. Seems like the incentive to use power within this state when it is plentiful isn’t there. Right now for example the difference in price between on peak and off peak is only $0.03 per KwH.
But wouldn't the best solution be level 2 charging at your work? Most people with a car work somewhere - and if you work somewhere, you park somewhere.
Chargers at work locations mean you don't need chargers at every appointment and condo. Plus, since most folks work during the day, we can soak up all the cheapest power from daytime solar. In CA, the cheapest power is from about 8am to 2pm. That's when your car should be on a lvl2 at work.
That would be ideal, but not every employer is willing to put chargers in their parking lots. We need catch-all solutions that guarantee anyone the ability to charge their cars no matter what, regardless of where they live or whom they work for. And, the only realistic way to have a catch-all solution is public DC fast charging.
If you can get your boss to install them, then more power to you.
Another big issue in CA is the cost to install charging equipment. If your parking lot is not currently up to code for accessibility, it will require those improvements. What was a maybe $20-30k project just became $100,000 project.
Torrance/Gardena is under construction.
My high roof extended E Transit fits in the car wash even! LOVE that place. Seriously the coolest charging place anywhere!
With road trip dc fast charging, I'm happy to pay a little more for an upscale experience with both food, drinks and charging. I don't road trip or use public chargers that often so I'm okay with higher prices.
Agree! The DCFC is a service that I also will pay a little bit more for.
Agreed. About 90%+ of my charging is at home. Really cheap!
On those occasions I do go on road trips (1,000 miles or more r/t), the higher costs for charging hardly put a dent in my annual savings - I still come out far ahead.
Once again, my EV does not limit me - it frees me to go where I want, when I want!
@@patrick7228 occasional abuse is never ok!
I would guess they want to do the arbitrage with the batteries and solar. That is very good profit strategy in CA. I use it on small scale on my home solar/battery system. For me I charge the battery while the rate is .22 cents and discharge when rate is .43 cents. Also reducing peak charges really reduces costs in CA.
So how long to pay for the battery system purely on what you’re making in arbitrage?
If you have solar and batteries I can surely see the benefit of putting as much into the batteries as possible during the day and selling back as much as you can afford during peak demand periods.. only power your stuff off batteries during peak pricing. Because those ‘free’ solar KWh going into the batteries will sell back for more than you’d pay to power your stuff from the grid at that time.
Colorado needs sites like this throughout the state.
9:59 Gelsons is better than Whole Foods. Maybe not as crazy expensive as Erewhon but it’s a great supermarket.
I feel like those battery packs are likely cost control and/or how they make profit. If they could charge those packs at night, then during the day charge the consumers to charge their cars at "prime time day rate" even tho the site itself got the power from the grid at the lower rate the night before.
Exactly, and they have what looks like 170kw of solar to avoid the grid prices as well. Great station!
And taxpayers paid for them
@@nemesis0088 they need variable pricing on the street signage
That's exactly why they are there. Plus they will want them to last through the entire peak time of four hours so they are only looking at 1.25mwh per hour. If the Tesla station is maxed out it's going to be pulling twice that, not included what the Rove side will be doing. Looks like they also have room for another BESS.
And the cheapest power of the day is mid morning to mid afternoon.
It's the same as a gas station build out, millions of dollars spent between the massive underground tank, the building, and the pumps. I don't think most people realize the cost of a single gas station because they've been around for awhile. The income doesn't come from the gas itself, it comes from the convenience store. We need level 2 charging at grocery stores, most people could get most of their charge from passive level 2 charging at places they're already going to.
And gas stations become Superfund sites due to inevitable gas leaks, that's why they're not directly owned by oil companies
Ayeee I was just there a few days before you posted this! The CCS chargers were overpriced at like $.60/kWh whereas the V3.5 Superchargers were at $.39 which was a no brainer. Lol
@@JorJorBinks123 hope that drivers educate one another to use Tesla
Haha, love the Biltong call out, Tollak! - Liv
Haha, yes had to mention that!
I would definitely spend more money to charge here than back of a mall.
You ask how it's profitable, the answer is that grocery store. The chargers are just what gets people in the door. This is also why they let Tesla set up chargers there
One of these will be opening about one mile down the street from my house. Excited for it.
Grocery shopping is absolutely the perfect match for EV charging. But I mean a real grocery store. You need to do both once or twice a week. Each takes 30 to 40 minutes. And because you're spending that much time the chargers don't have to be super high powered. 60kW would be perfect and then you can put in more medium powered chargers rather than just a few high-powered. If this were a grocery store, something like Trader Joe's I would shop there a heck of a lot more often while charging my car. I'd be more likely to go across town to where the charging is at, whereas what I do now is just go to the closest Aldi or one of the chain groceries because they are much closer. THAT is where the profit is at.
"I'd be more likely to go across town to where the charging is at, whereas what I do now is just go to the closest Aldi or one of the chain groceries because they are much closer."
Sounds good on paper, but given everything I've heard about LA traffic, that feels like a tough sell. There is a reason why, in the ICE world, we have gas stations everywhere, rather than expecting everyone to drive 10+ miles out of the way to a large fueling hub.
@@EPeltzer Trader Joes and regular stores need chargers
Gelson’s is a very high-end, high-cost market.
@@ohrick8707 Their demographic is millionaires
One of my favorite EV charging stations i been to and close by my Office. BTW I currently live in a Condo without access to EV charging daily Tesla Model 3 LFP ever since this ROVE open I been charging there at least once a week.
Agreed with others about being excited to see large, high amenity, covered DCFC locations.
Sad that Rove is only for California, but Happy that IONNA is coming to me in Texas!
Definitely needed in southern California! I almost went to the grand opening, but it's not close to me in West Los Angeles. I feel that they (Rove) is starting with a cheaper location then will open up other, more expensive locations in southern California. I heard the old radio station KMPC in Burbank is now for sale (something like 17 acres of undeveloped land), maybe we'll get a Rove there! I agree with Kyle on the whole Gelson's being a high-end grocery store and it not being the best for a pit-stop charging location. But as is known, "Time is $", so maybe the thought is that if you spend more time in the store, the more $ you'll end up spending with charging, using the restroom, washing your car, etc.
We got EVGO here in WLA
@@24_f_p_s There's not enough of them!!
Wow, only 43 minutes - an Out of Spec short!
Just a quick tour 😉
$.58/kwh is what we pay for public DC charging in Minnesota if you don’t have subscriptions with Electricfy America.
$0.64/kWh is what the EA one mile down the road charges without subscription. That's pretty common in California but now we're seeing time variable pricing.
@@AlexBerman1more than gas
More than gas
Tesla is 0.38c / kWh for most of Minnesota 😬.
@@Nicholas-f5depending on efficiency. For my ID4 if gas is 6 times the cost of one kWh I’m about even.
Sorry, but in Europe ABB used to be the abbreviation for Always Be Broken for their chargers. I hope they got their act together now. If possible, I try to avoid them. Big CPO‘s have changed their hardware to other manufacturers like Alpitronics.
Wow a grocery store, vending machine and water bottle filler! Thank you so much for that.
Don't forget there are some seats. and a toilet.
@FirstLast-rh9jw Sweet!..
Video starts at 1:57. Possibly the largest sponsor segment ever :(
This definitely looks like the next step in the EV journey. While the upscale foods and amenities might not work for all, imagine a more average-priced version with all the usual sodas, chips, etc. It's coming, I'm certain.
@@ZekeBriarcliff Circle K is doing some but that's the opposite/bad market
Jordan’s a TH-cam star! He was also on Patrick & Liv’s video. I met him in person when I went to Rove and he is very nice even when there isn’t a camera around 😊
Both Jordan’s are great at Rove 🎉
@@chargepozitive There's more than one?! I met the one that was in this video. When I went to Rove he immediately came up to ask if I needed help, and he was pretty tickled that I recognized him from Patrick & Liv's video.
@@jamesrea329 yeah there’s another Jordan
He is legitamately a great guy who wants to help anyone he can. Best hire ever.
Yes, I think battery packs are for energy arbitrage / grid services.
What a good installation. This is what we need a lot more of. I think hardware prices need to drop in order to make it more feasible for a lot of smaller businesses. Still, 50+ cents per kWh is absurd but oh well.
It's as much or more than gas for now until there is competition
@ yep, that’s exactly what I was talking about the other day as a matter of fact. It’s negligible at this point. Do we need more power or what do we need to do to get the prices down? Or like you said, just more competition?
I loved this location, I went through here when I was traveling from San Diego to LA last month. Great experience, and I had 0 issues charging. I just wish they had more mainstream grocery stores instead because it was pretty expensive.
But I do like that they do have great vegan snacks here. The mushroom jerky was great.
Hey, Kyle. I'm interested to see how you think the Apex Rechargery compares, this week.
Yo, the cost of those gummies isn’t California, it’s Gelsons. You can get charge for 35¢ all over. This place is in Anaheim/Santa Ana… Disney is literally 5 mins down the road hence the cost
@@djkeithjust they're weed gummies
Yeah, probably playing the utility game. It looks like a Ev charging station. But really it’s battery power plant. There’s a lot of drama about a battery power plant that caught fire in San Diego. But by saying it’s for EVs it gives them cover and easy permitting. Genius.
Was it a LG plant?
Most EV get charged from the grid and coal anyways 🤷♂️
Agree. And, an additional side benefit is that, during utility power outages, the chargers can continue to work for at least a few hours, using the batteries. The batteries can even supply backup power to not just the chargers, but also the lounge and store.
@@mbergamin16No. across the USA coal is less than 10% of electricity production. Natural gas is more than twice coal per per US Energy Admin.
Thought the same thing. Electricity can be acquired in the CA market at very low rates when the solar power generation ramps up midday. Then rates are quite high at other times of the day, especially in that 4PM - 9PM window. CA wants to store more of that midday solar power for use at different times of the day but NIMBY issues make that challenging. However to claim this is a project for EVs quiets many NIMBY types and maybe converts some potential NIMBYs into advocates. I can definitely imagine why they are focused on CA first, as this particular utility game is not as common outside of California. And perhaps that is why the private investors want to stay silent investors as their names and business objectives may motivate NIMBY types and discourage local EV advocates.
Great video! Thank you. 🙌🏼
Great site need more like that. They must be playing the utility game with that amount of storage. That would make that place very profitable even in the short run and once there are even more ev’s than the ports are the only limit
Hard to say. Just the Tesla SC (2.5MW connection) could deplete those batteries in a little over 2 hours. That doesn't include the Rove stalls. The solar canopy won't even cover a single stall at max power.
That looks great I was hoping that we would get some here it looks similar to the grid serve in the UK. I'm surprised that you didn't mention that there is no pull through if you're pulling a trailer. Think there would be a lot of travelers in Southern California that are pulling a trailer. Thank you for another great video.
Would be great to have an update about the 6mwh batteries situation
I'm trying to Google it from CA Energy Commission
I disagree on the battery storage. A site this large should always have battery storage to shave off the peak demand (which saves money), utilize solar energy for cheaper charging, and provide a backup for energy outages or degradations. There's 28 V4 posts there. If they upgrade those cabinets to V4, then just the Tesla Superchargers could pull up to 3.6 MW at once.
Those batteries wouod be flat in less that two hours if that station was running flat out.
Fantastic. Touchless Car Wash.
So this is in Santa Ana in Orange County, which is like 15 mi south of Los Angeles. Maybe you could be a little more specific early on rather than just saying Southern California. That's like 33,000 square miles of territory and something like 190 cities.
Just off 17th street exit in Santa Ana, CA.
Have you guys been to Viejas Casino in San Diego, 410 stations in the east parking structure?
I have seen the new garage! Charged there a couple weeks ago
Kyle. You are missing an income stream in this setup. In the daytime in California there is so much grid solar that the wholesale price of electricity is almost zero and in some situations it's possible to be paid. So the battery banks can be charged for minimal cost and then used by the chargers at a very high% mark up. Also they will be putting the solar from the caponies into the battery bank. So long term they will have good steady income
The Electrify America installation in Baker, CA also has 12 CCS chargers, and unlike this installation, they have pull-through charging bays. And there's also a huge Supercharger station on the site, plus it's at a Shell station with restaurants on site.
I mean, this is cool, but I don't see it solving the LA charging situation. It's just a large charging installation.
Wouldn't they be using the batteries for all the solar power that they are generating to sell back to the utility two offset their overhead? So wish we had this in Tampa.
Ask your city to require it
Really love this. This is the future of road tripping an ev.
Not LA Orange County
So cool to see the collaboration with Tollak! Would be great to do more with him. Loved stopping by Rove on my recent roadtrip. Best charging stop I’ve ever been to.
@ElectrifyAmerica needs to take notice.
Great content as always, glad to see u made it to this location. There’s also a Rove coming shortly to Torrance, it’s off the 405 and western. So far it’s a shake shack and Chick-fil-A there.
180kW power shared between two is not enough imo
I commute by train to LA, saw that location being built from scratch.
The only things it's missing is a sidewalk taco stand and a typical Santa Ana "massage parlor" outfit 😀
Train/ebike is really the way to go vs car ownership and wild costs
that'll be a happy ending hehehehe
How about a Taco truck? If there is space.
@@d.e.7467 would attract a lot of gas cars/problems, litter, parking
It shares the parking lot with a strip mall so a massage parlor could be possible. And there's a big parking lot so food trucks could be a thing.
So you can Google for a second and find out Rove is funded mostly from the US Department of Transportation. Private partners include. NEVI and Pioneer Power for most of the equipment.
So Trump will shut it down basically
@24_f_p_s probably
@24_f_p_s anything to do with the DOT at least yes.
Newlight Partners in NY, USA is a private equity firm. It looks like they've funded this.
Level 2 units would also be a good idea
Would take more spots for an hour or two each, they likely don't want that or car campers/Uber drivers (they pay $1500/mo for car lease and sleep in car)
That area is gentrifying at lightning speed…..the building across the street was an original Earl Scheib $99.95 paint job body shop back in the day, this was industrial area.🥲….average home price now, 854k
that is one sweet charging station
Dedicated stations wld be awesome. It wld be be even cooler if businesses wld help offset the charging costs by store purchases or vice versa, ie a Starbucks charge station that offers discount drinks or discount charge rate for drink purchases.
Southern CA needs 100s of charging parks like Rove. I would gladly pay the $0.58 per kW as gas runs $5.89+ per gallon in SoCal so EVs are still at least 60% cheaper vs gas. It is also nice to see a higher end store like Recharge by Gelson's vs junk that gas stations offer. The products offered meet the needs of a road trip as well as grabbing items to take home, your hotel room or to friends your visiting. EV owners get an elevated experience by owning an EV vs ICE, charging amenities should also be elevated. Can't wait to use Rove on our next trip to Santa Ana area. We have 2024 EV9 GT and BMW iX M60 so both can be charged at Rove. Wish we could get a Rove charging park in the Palm Springs and San Diego areas. Good coverage, thank you Kyle.
Great video. I love the concept of Rove.
Yes! as I said in the video this is my # 1 choice to stop when coming up from San Diego
You had me at canopies...
Looks like they will be opening at least 4 new centers in Southern CA next year: Corona, Costa Mesa, Long Beach and Torrance.
Does anyone have any insight into Tesla's decision to not activate magic docks in the vast majority of their v4 dispenser installs? I'm sure Rove appreciates their decision on this case.
Nice electric G. I am sureprised by the price/Kwh. It is like in Germany. I thought in the US electricity was always much cheaper. So good to see the infrastructure is developing.
So fantastic weather in the middle of December? Some day i have to take a holiday vacation in the USA with my family.
Electricity in California is crazy expensive compared to elsewhere in the country-during the 4-9pm peak, even residential power rates in some places like San Diego can hit 70c/kWh. Kyle mentioned in the video that he pays 7c/kWh at his home in Colorado. I pay about 13c/kWh in Missouri. Some people in the Pacific Northwest (where cheap hydropower is plentiful) pay even less.
The electric rates in California are due to a confluence of factors, including poor corporate governance by the major for-profit utilities there (see: PG&E), ineffective state regulation (see: Enron), deferred maintenance, fire risk mitigation, and environmental regulations, plus everything in the state being absurdly expensive due to poor zoning laws that have created a massive housing shortage.
Also because the Rocky Mountains make it really hard to bring in gas/oil. Anything that isn’t from CA itself typically comes from over the ocean
Not sure how I feel about the sun beating down on the fresh, cold food, but the store looks nice.
Where in the description are details on new charger meet-up?
WOW!!! Would love to see this AZ. Might have to make a trip out to Cali just for the experience. Futures so bright. 😎
I just left here!!! 😊❤
I haven't been in Santa Ana for a few years. When did the wire take over?
Recycling and composting required by law
Baby changing in hallway as well as sink, smart
The new standard is having a lux lounge if you're paying more than gas to charge
They likely got millions in taxpayer help for the batteries and there's a bonus for doing it in poor neighborhoods.
Sweet. Heading up to OR from San Diego tomorrow, will have to swing by this one. Never thought I would be excited to visit a “convenience store”.
Awesome charing location, has great options and amenities. I am sure they will be successful.
One comment i hear all the time about how bad the experience is charging at the back of a Walmart parking lot.. couple things.. correct not enough chargers, and half of them are broken. BUT.. think about the location. You are at a WALMART.. they have everything, and usually a restaurant inside.
These charging sites were put in PRE Pandemic when Walmart was open 24 hrs.
So the experience is way worse now. Nothing to do, and in the dark back side of a parking lot.
Have you seen the gridserve electric forecourt model in the UK?
Similar co location with a shop, car leasing, gym, meeting spaces for hire and toilets.
Why would you choose rove cabinets after every mfg has NACS?
Two reasons:
1. You own an eGMP which can only charge at 60kW on 400v (I trust Tesla exactly zero to ever have 1000v v4s)
2. You have a giant battery truck, then you need a CCS1 adapter for 600 amps sustained on the dedicated 350s.
Yeah, I have a GV60 so I was thinking exactly this. However, it can do better than 60kW - I've used magic docks twice and got 97kW both times. The good news is that the charging curve was completely flat - it pulled 97kW all the way up to 83% SOC. So it's actually not that bad - about 32 minutes for 10-80%. But yeah, I'd definitely prefer a 350 or even 175 CCS charger. (Since Rove is only 40 miles from my home where I have Level 2 charging, it's a moot point for me anyway.)
I try to avoid Walmarts like a plague. These will be greatly appreciated.
What's wrong with em? Just curious, not from CA
@ the issue with Electrify America is their inability to keep their chargers running consistently. More often than not, either some of the chargers are down, or they operate well below the advertised charging speeds. I will admit that their recent 350kW chargers have been much better and at least where I live, the new equipment is performing far better than what used to be there. They still occasionally have a charger or two down, but the ones that are working are delivering 300+ kW most of the time. As for Walmart, I refuse to frequent an establishment that openly takes advantage of their employees and games the system to put a lot of them on welfare when their business experiences slowdowns.
32:05 or just charge different prices at different time intervals like they do in china. basically cheapest after 11pm until 6 am, then 12 pm would be maybe 3x.
A lot of credit card companies limit purchase amounts at gas stations.
Holy shit. Imagine if at every DCFC they had vacuums too! Just like, all chargers.
Should be required by the cities
I charged there last month. It’s amazing.
Kyle you hit on it “I would pay more to charge here”