Monarch 10EE Drive Retrofit 3: Building out the Electrical Component Panel

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
  • Monarch 10EE Drive Retrofit 3: Building out the Electrical Component Panel
    I am retrofitting the old tube based DC drive system - the "works in a drawer" from a circa 1952 Monarch 10EE Lathe with modern electrical components.
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ความคิดเห็น • 239

  • @Bluesman57
    @Bluesman57 2 ปีที่แล้ว +95

    You definitely need grommets to protect the wires going through. The vibration of the lathe will eventually cut through the insulation. It's cheap insurance. Please listen to all the people telling you to use grommets we're not wrong.

    • @swrifle6627
      @swrifle6627 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      He's right. And been an electrician for 40 years.

    • @brettbuck7362
      @brettbuck7362 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I have built and repaired audio equipment for a very long time, and even only driven by vibration from speakers, these sorts of arrangements would rub out in a few years. I give it hours when attached to a running electric motor. You absolutely need grommets and maybe some sort of plastic pass-through, because a rubber grommet will rub through, too. I also strongly suggest some diagonal braces on the angle-iron uprights, and isolation grommets between the uprights and the panel to isolate the rest of the electronics from high-frequency vibration.
      You cannot overdo stuff like this, heat and vibration are the enemies, and this application is nearly a worst case.

    • @bkoholliston
      @bkoholliston 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Long time EE here: totally agree you need grommets! They make flexible grommet material you can wrap in the hole and cut to length. They are soft plastic and don't wear the wiring much at all. Looking at all the devices on that panel, I also think you need bigger holes (or more holes).

    • @nelen_co
      @nelen_co 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      out of curiosity (asking for a.. friend). if you put a heat shrink over the wire where it passes through is that enough added protection?

    • @Rorschach1024
      @Rorschach1024 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@nelen_co not at all.

  • @pinsandscrews6459
    @pinsandscrews6459 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I have seen panels put together by "Professional Electrical Engineers" with Multiple Decades under the belt that didn't even come anywhere near as clean as those. Thanks for Sharing

  • @bebo5558
    @bebo5558 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Whenever I've used snap-in din rail stops vertically, the vibration made them slide down?? The Allen Bradley type end clamps, that tighten with two bolts hold better, just a thought.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wago work also.

  • @ron827
    @ron827 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    The panel will experience vibration in the machine which could cause chaffing of the wires in the pass-through holes so grommets are appropriate.

    • @alexanderkupke920
      @alexanderkupke920 ปีที่แล้ว

      With vibrations in mind, I am also wondering if DIN-Rails are actually meant to be mounted vertically. I learned to use them only horizontally and have so far always seen them that way either. Mounting them sideways I don´t think some of the components are actually mounted securely as they can slide down "sideways".

  • @robp5575
    @robp5575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    Awesome job. If I may, You should consider adding a line reactor to protect the drive. And I would also recommend an din mounted thermostat and a fan for the enclosure. Those drives put out a far amount of heat and you need a way to keep your panels cool to extend their lifetime.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      How much heat does a Parker DC drive put out? The manufacturer guidance on cooling should be followed.

    • @robp5575
      @robp5575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@michael931 I have no idea what temp that drive puts out but it has a 32 -104 degree operating temperature. With it being in a enclosure and you don’t have any fans or vents it will easily surpass that operating temp. A lot of electronic components don’t specify what should or shouldn’t be in your specific control panel. It’s up to the electrical designer to figure out what should or shouldn’t be in the panel.

    • @kindabluejazz
      @kindabluejazz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The original system used tube thyratrons and it didn't need a fan. It's not a sealed enclosure, lots of things spinning around probably generating the equivalent turbulence of fans, and it's a huge chunk of cast iron that can act as a heat sink. Heat being generated by the drive means inefficiency, and I would hope it's at least as efficient as the 70 year old technology was. My guess is that $2000 drive also has it's own thermal monitoring system and will shut down if necessary.

    • @tracteurfan4734
      @tracteurfan4734 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The parker 514c drive loss are 50 watts at full load. I am assuming that this drive will not work at full load all the time. So 50 watts for the heat load do not require any fan to cool.

    • @ellieprice363
      @ellieprice363 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tracteurfan4734 So why not just put in a fan? They’re cheap, reliable, draw little power and solve the cooling question. Why take a chance on an expensive machine when the solution is so obvious?

  • @stevejacklin8462
    @stevejacklin8462 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I know the edges of the holes have been chamfered but would still suggest using grommets to stop chafing. Would also recommend using slotted trunking for managing the wires.

  • @geneard639
    @geneard639 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    uh... You need grommets for the wire passthroughs. The metal can have a mirror finish, but its not sharpness that does the damage but hardness vs. hardness. The machine WILL vibrate and act like a sander on that one spot of wire being impinged on. Also consider a rack mounted disconnect for future repairs. NO ONE WANTS TO KNEEL ON CONCRETE....well, except a few who like that kind of thing. A rack mount disconnect would allow a future technician to disconnect the panel, 4 mount screws, lift it to a work bench and work on it.

  • @jamesdavis8021
    @jamesdavis8021 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Nice layout,Keith.A clean layout not only looks nice but,it makes working on a panel,so much better.Putting a heavy chamfer on the through holes is alright but, I hope you will seriously consider installing grommets in those holes.

    • @peterhobson3262
      @peterhobson3262 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      While the chamfer will protect the grommets the grommets are needed for long-term running of the machine.

    • @frandoyle5608
      @frandoyle5608 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Definitely add grommets and cooling.

    • @jamesdavis8021
      @jamesdavis8021 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@frandoyle5608 Yes.Cooling will greatly extend the life of the electronics

  • @yqwgjsg
    @yqwgjsg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Great work but I would still use grommets in those holes. Cheap and easy insurance.

  • @clydedecker765
    @clydedecker765 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nicely done. When I was making my first electronic device, I did not have all the nice mounting accessories. It used several tubes, a large multiwinding transformer, a smaller transformer,. and several potentiometers. Loads of resistors and capacitors and NO printed circuit boards. I started with a sheet of 1/8th inch aluminum and a drill, tin snips and a hacksaw. Yours looks SO much easier.

  • @walker68020
    @walker68020 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great job
    You make me want to run out and get a 10ee guest to do the retrofit.
    Thanks for all you do for us!!!!

  • @scottnyc6572
    @scottnyc6572 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Did you use lock washers for the mounting board and brackets as well?
    There will be vibration throughout so that should require lock washers on the nut side.Also the board should require a separate independent ground lug as an equipment ground.You might need to scratch some of the paint off the bottom of the mountain brackets just so there’s metal against metal contact.Grounding is important for protection against components and personnel.Even though you reamed the holes for where the wires pass through you might wanna go a little larger and use a grommet.
    As an electrician i find they undersize capacity where a larger space never hurts only helps.When it comes to terminating your wires to the board components you should be able to do all that right on the bench allowing enough length to reach their destination,just be sure to use linen tags for identification.I find using tire wraps for bundling your wires neatly always works nicely and makes for a neat and cleaner job.Looking good so far.

  • @dannyl2598
    @dannyl2598 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you. Looks great, very professional.

  • @leeroyholloway4277
    @leeroyholloway4277 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I hate myself for being "that guy" today. ...but... Freehanding that big ol twist drill in the plate made me nervous. I'm inclined to use a stop block on something like that. Crawling back under my rock now...........

    • @randallreplogle2213
      @randallreplogle2213 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was afraid we were going to witness a circumcision.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      If you have experience you can get away with it as he did. Otherwise use a clamp or a step drill, or a hole saw or punch.

  • @floridaflywheelersantiquee7578
    @floridaflywheelersantiquee7578 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Like the layout thanks for sharing enjoined

  • @stuarthardy4626
    @stuarthardy4626 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I hope your designer has made sure that if the shunt field for the motor cannot be lost while the armature is powered , a very robust interlock must be provided to shut the armature voltage off in the event of the shunt field controller failing , it would be be best practice to sense the field at the field as that would give the most reliable feed back
    ex armature and stator winder , also spent a long time on the pre war 220vdc traction and motors in general
    if you loose the shunt field the results will not be pretty

    • @scotte2815
      @scotte2815 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The Parker 514C can provide the Field voltage. I do not yet understand varying the Field Voltage via a different drive.
      If the field from the Parker 514C is lost the drive should fault out and shut down.
      Typically
      Losing the field when the motor is unloaded results in the motor running away and spinning apart
      That would be bad
      Losing the field with a load on the motor typically drags the motor to a stop.
      A DC motor at rest that has only armature voltage applied will growl and buzz angrily and make a LOT of heat (If that happens you should remove power ASAP)
      But again, this drive will fault out and shut down if it loses the field.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@scotte2815 yes but there is also the KB drive.

  • @tonywheeler5173
    @tonywheeler5173 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Keith, get you some step drills!!!

  • @HylaTube
    @HylaTube 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Never seen such casual tapping … :)

  • @ericmcrae7758
    @ericmcrae7758 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    It looks the vote for grommets is in Keith, I was in the electrical industry and they are standard in most units especially a machine that vibrates. It is coming along nicely I think you may have some orders for other 10EEs when you are done.😀😀

  • @MrLukealbanese
    @MrLukealbanese 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice work Keith. Must admit I'm a grommet man myself, but still.

  • @ron827
    @ron827 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What happened to the Jimmy DiResta bandsaw?

  • @just5462
    @just5462 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man that's some cool content. TH-cam sent me here. What a coincidence people tell me I look like a Keith too whenever I smile. Subbed right away.

  • @jerrypeal653
    @jerrypeal653 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Don’t know how much vibration you expect but having been one that repaired these types of items I always added isolating dampers , electronic components, solder joints etc. don’t like vibration.

  • @transmaster
    @transmaster 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Keith, make sure you put a debris shield above the controller boards to keep chips from getting between things.

  • @Dudleymiddleton
    @Dudleymiddleton 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The wiring will be interesting to watch - Will you be making neat and tidy looms or use that slotted control panel trunking? - or a bit of both, I guess! Great job so far, Keith, looking forward to the next instalment! PS and yes - please use grommets where ever possible, as others have mentioned.

  • @hectorpascal
    @hectorpascal 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Even Chinese manufacturers know you should ALWAYS use an insulating bush or grommet where wires pass through metal panels! Wires WILL vibrate at discrete machine speeds and after a while their insulation will wear through and short on the metal panel. The bush/grommet is an essential 2nd level of electrical wiring mechanical protection. The chamfer doesn't help much.

  • @scowell
    @scowell 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Lookin' good! I'd for sure put ferrules/crimps on the wires and number them... think of the poor guy down the road. Also, no reason to not use grommets.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Doubtful he will use ferrules. Not too common in the US.

  • @radardoug
    @radardoug 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Look nice Keith. I hate to jump on the band wagon but I spent 40 years installing radar systems in flight test aircraft (a high vibration environment) and I would not run wires through a bare hole without some kind of protection. I frequently used spiral wrap tubing.

  • @johnsundelin6408
    @johnsundelin6408 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks good!

  • @w6aav
    @w6aav 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Boy Keith, the grommet police are out in full force. I would delete the vid and tell them to pound sand. You are no idiot and know what you are doing. Hats off to you for taking the pain of TH-cam police from their keyboards.

  • @CraigLYoung
    @CraigLYoung 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for sharing 👍

  • @peterhaan9068
    @peterhaan9068 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Keith, Steve Watkins (th-cam.com/video/-F6__VT-kEc/w-d-xo.html) is about where you are in his power supply rebuild for his 10EE. Curious to see how both your efforts parallel each others work. Just a reminder from somebody further down the comments to make sure you have sufficient ventilation for your electronics!

  • @bjcouche1
    @bjcouche1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    For those commenting on, why the second drive for the field current when the Parker 514C provides a field supply: Yes the Parker drive provides a field supply, but it's a FIXED field supply at 0.9X the supply voltage. Keith has not yet shared the motor nameplate data on this channel but I assume that either the field voltage is nonstandard and or the motor needs to be run above base speed in normal operation. A modern motor rating like this would be 1750/3600rpm where 1750rpm is Base speed with full field current and full armature voltage. The filed current is reduced and the motor is operated in the "constant HP region" to operate above 1750rpm. I have worked with and tuned LOTS of industrial AC and DC drives. For a DC motor like this you would normally just use a DC drive that has a field current REGULATOR, not just a fixed field supply. You would configure the drive to regulate the field current to the motor rated field current, and when the speed reached the base speed the field current would automagically be reduced. I would tell Keith which drive he should use, except for the issue that I am unaware of any SINGLE PHASE DC drive that has a field current regulator as an option. A field current regulator for operating above base motor speed is usually a higher end feature and not commonly found on lower end, small HP single phase drives. Also please, please, provide field loss protection and or tachometer over speed fault detection or the motor may experience RUD (Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly).

  • @EngineeringVignettes
    @EngineeringVignettes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You will probably have to need a few tapped holes for ground points...
    Panel looks neat and tidy. Plastic hole "grommets" may save you some grief down the road if wire chaffing ever happens. I cannot determine from here if you will ever need them but its cheap insurance.
    It's kind of funny that you are building out an aluminum panel of solid state gear to replace a tube controller when the last aluminum panel I made was to mount tube sockets onto :D
    Cheers,

  • @passenger6735
    @passenger6735 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Unless you put some screw end stops on those rails you'll finish up with a pile of components in the bottom of the lathe. Vibration is the enemy of electrical work.
    ...just a thought.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It depends on the specific end stop blocks. Some hold very well. I doubt there will be much vibration down there as everyone seems to think. The thing weighs 1000s of pounds. The motor is on the other end.

  • @hamstreetjohn9094
    @hamstreetjohn9094 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    From an old hand wireman and fault chaser you really should grommet those holes like everyone says. The vibration will wear the insulation eventually and you will get a fault probably intermittent which will be hard to find and time consuming. It really is cheap insurance against frustration and problems.
    Had a quick look at your wiring diagrams, they look complicated, and it will be easy to miss a wire, the old trick is to get a highlight pen and colour each wire as you install it, makes a missed one easy to see and you will always know where you left off if you have to leave the job.
    Hope the tips are useful and the wiring goes OK
    hamstreetjohn

  • @jensschroder8214
    @jensschroder8214 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    DIN Rail also a German invention.
    We always make the rail horizontal so that nothing slips.
    But with end caps it will probably also work. Good job.

    • @bennydesign
      @bennydesign 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The good old German „Hutschiene“ ;)

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wago end blocks won't slip. Don't know which ones he is using. Some slip and some don't.

  • @shannonstebbens6992
    @shannonstebbens6992 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video. I have concerns with your pass through holes for the wires. This aluminum panel is not unlike an aircraft bulkhead. The constant vibrations in an airplane are not unlike a lathe operating. We would never consider not using a pass through or major grommet on the hole in an airplane. My recommendation is to not have any wiring passing through a raw aluminum hole. I have much more experience as an aircraft mechanic than machinist. Just my thoughts.....

  • @andrewhorsburgh2549
    @andrewhorsburgh2549 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Just watching, thinking, you must get a lot of satisfaction assembling all of the parts to make the lathe work.

  • @silverbullet7434
    @silverbullet7434 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Think I'd still put grommets in the pass thru holes .

  • @jamesmoe9188
    @jamesmoe9188 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Well, thought I was going to bed lol. Gotta watch Mr. Keith now.

  • @davidsellars646
    @davidsellars646 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Keith, you seem to be outside your comfort zone. I know that I am. It took about four sessions for me to get through this video. A basic question is why did Monarch use such a funky system when seemingly everyone else did not? I am sure that, presented with one of these lathes, I'd take a pass.

  • @Andrewausfa
    @Andrewausfa 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was working on some electronic test equipment right when you hit that centre punch at 6.32. Jumped right out of my seat!!

  • @gregfeneis609
    @gregfeneis609 ปีที่แล้ว

    Inb4loktite?
    Yep. Grommets and cable ties to prevent wiggling of wires. Thread locker to keep the screws tight...After commissioning 😉

  • @melgross
    @melgross 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would still like to see some more support for that panel, or at least have had the heavy component mounted towards the bottom, rather than the top, as was done. Even with a 10EE there will be vibration in use. The panel will also vibrate, as there is really nothing to prevent it, as the fulcrum is all the way at the bottom at those welds. You should be able to grab that panel at the top with the bottom rails solidly mounted, and not be able to move the panel top more than a very small fraction of an inch. But with that mounting, a good strong tug back and forth is likely to bend it, or even break it off.
    Likely, the smoothed off holes won’t be a problem for the wires, but aluminum is still harder than insulation and unless polished, can slowly rub the insulation. I don’t know how the wiring will be finished, but I’d like to see it inside a wire clip on both sides of each hole, fastened to the plate so the wires can’t move. I would also prefer to see the DIN rail horizontal. End stops are good, it best practice says horizontal.

  • @mdouglaswray
    @mdouglaswray 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Beautiful electronics setup! Looks like a big improvement.

  • @johnwilliamson467
    @johnwilliamson467 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V. (DIN; in English, the German Institute for Standardization Registered Association) . Used in control panels since the 50's . Very fine choose for this application. Grommets are not optional in this case to pass current code in this use . Nor is it good practice to not use grommets for the reason stated by many others below !

  • @aserta
    @aserta 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Use grommets. I know we nag, but we nag from a good place. Vibrations will cut those wires eventually. Even a low motor hum can eventually break a connection. Plus, the tool is cheap as cheap gets (obviously, there's more expensive ones, but for your level/hours of use, a cheaper one is sufficient). Especially with modern wire, it's worth the peace and mind.

  • @keithmonarch447
    @keithmonarch447 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Keith. I like to introduce myself and have in the past. So I'm Keith from Michigan. This is the very first time I have seen you doing electrical panels. My career got launched about 4yrs, they were quite impressive and involved. Relay ladder logic wiring b4 PLC became more commonly used. Keith, my panels took 3 weeks, not including the door switches-on and on my friend. Send a message, if possible 🙂

  • @adriannicol8529
    @adriannicol8529 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looks great, I would echo the comment from Brett Buck below about adding braces to the panel mounting brackets, the resonant frequency of what you have there looks like it will be pretty low and well within the range I could imagine being excited by a running lathe, adding braces will raise it quite significantly. Some inverters (mostly it must be said, coming from further east than the USA) often have big chunky electrolytic capacitors mounted only by their legs which also have a low resonant frequency and if things do resonate then over time the copper legs can work-harden and fail.
    Also, if you don't have room to add some 'finger' trunking to route the wires, could I suggest adding a bunch of tapped holes in the baseplate for cable clips at this stage is safer than drilling and tapping holes next to the finished wire bundles where a slip can remove a lot of insulation from wires in a hurry - ask me how I know!
    Lastly, I try to use at least one screw-down DIN rail grounding terminal per DIN rail as an 'end stop' so I can run a ground wire to each rail and not rely on any mounting screws for grounding (which is frowned upon over on this side of the Atlantic anyway) it also makes it easy to add ground wires for inverters and so on.

  • @jst.hilaire354
    @jst.hilaire354 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As a toolmaker I loved running a 10EE. It made every job easier.

  • @tomp538
    @tomp538 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shop teacher would have slapped me in the back of the head; if he caught me drilling with out the work secured... Just say'n.

  • @Baron3D
    @Baron3D 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There are 6 connections. Is one pair a tachometer output? The regulator needs an input that is linear to speed to keep the speed constant.

    • @Henning_S.
      @Henning_S. 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I also wondered how it will maintain constant rpm under load, maybe the motor really has a tachometer output, otherwise 6 wires don't make sense because you only need 2 for the field and 2 for + and - in a regular brushed DC motor.
      The only DC motors which may need 6 wires are brushless DC motors which are basically 3 phase motors.
      2 for field, 3 for the 3 coils, 1 for the center point of the star configuration.
      But they need special controllers which generate a special kind of 3phase AC power which frequency is matched to the actual motor rpm.
      These motors are often used in RC airplanes and cars.

  • @michael931
    @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A lot of lathe vibration experts in these comments. I wonder how many have actually used that type of lathe.

  • @rodneyfox5566
    @rodneyfox5566 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You scare the crap out of me every time you man handle that mahoosiv drill press and today the milling machine, I'm sure your safe but still put me on edge😅🤣

  • @seancollins9745
    @seancollins9745 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    glentek, reliance and yaskawa make drives with field control

  • @jasonbell5905
    @jasonbell5905 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can’t believe your drilling that plate with out some kind of stop , not a good safe practice.

  • @BrianEltherington
    @BrianEltherington 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice looking panel. Pretty sure Stan would approve!

  • @mikehancock4624
    @mikehancock4624 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I second Marks comment. You definitely need grommets.

  • @williamleinonen4888
    @williamleinonen4888 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good to see some industrial controls on TH-cam. Lots of videos on home wiring, but not much on motor control. Thanks.

  • @jongmassey
    @jongmassey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Get yourself a roll of grommet strip. Cheaping out will cost you down the line

  • @scotte2815
    @scotte2815 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice work!
    that said,
    All DC motors have two things;
    1: A Field, which may be permanent magnets or a winding,
    2: Armature winding(s)
    This usually means 2 or 4 wires.
    Some DC Motors may have "SETS" of windings for configuring the motor for different voltages.
    Some motors have a couple of extra wires for a Brake, or some sort of thermal protection.
    Since your motor has 6 wires, I would like to see the make and model of the motor to look up the specs.
    I have been in electronics for many decades, and I have yet to see such a set up like yours that would manipulate the "FIELD" voltage. Field voltage is almost ALWAYS on and steady whenever power is applied to the system.
    I'm wondering what that small square KB (drive?) unit is @2:00
    The Parker 514C provides the Field voltage which will always be on when the drive is on, and varies the speed by varying the Armature voltage.
    That KB unit looks like a KBIC-120 or something similar. They are a small drive and I suppose you could be controlling the Field voltage with it, but that's unusual and not needed. In fact it may be an overcomplication that may provide a fail point.
    I'm wondering,
    Is there another little DC Motor somewhere on this lathe?

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It is a very old design from the 50's. There is another channel that gets into the details more I think. It may have to do with the original drive being tube based.

    • @scotte2815
      @scotte2815 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michael931 OK, I've done some more research and have learnt a thing or five.
      Pete Vree has some very good videos explaining the series, shunt, and compound DC motor from 5 years ago.
      There are typically 2 to 4 motors on the Monarch 10EE
      The main Spindle motor (more on this later).
      The cooling motor, a simple single-phase ac motor that is always energized when power is on, and probably used to keep the electronics from overheating.
      Then there are two optional motors, the hydraulic motor and the circulation pump motor. Both of these are three phase motors that are controlled by simple contactors.
      The Spindle Motor is a compound DC motor.
      That is why it has 6 leads.
      It will have two (2) sets of field windings, one for series, and one for shunt.
      And then there will be the armature leads.
      If the Shunt and Series windings are wired with the same magnetic polarity you have what is known as the Accumulative or Additive Compound DC Motor. This configuration is very well behaved and give excellent speed control (a function of the Shunt Winding) and handles varying loads (a function of the Series Windings) The best of both types.
      IF, the Shunt and Field Windings are wired with opposing magnetic polarities then you have a Differential Compound DC Motor and lots of weird behaviors manifest along with heat and sparks. I have yet to learn what a Differential DC Motor is good for, but I suspect that is not how Monarch configured it.
      Monarch reduces the energy going to the Shunt Winding after 60 seconds of idle. I believe this is what the KB drive will be used for, but that is a guess. I'm wondering if there is a simpler way.
      Looking forward to seeing the wiring

  • @IslandHermit
    @IslandHermit 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I always enjoy it when the first component goes onto a board or panel. It's a sign that all the prep work is done and the whole thing starts coming together.

    • @alanpecherer5705
      @alanpecherer5705 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Either that or you get to drag out all your long aircraft drill bits so you can drill the holes you forgot about around what you've already mounted, LOL.

  • @HorsleyLandy88
    @HorsleyLandy88 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sorry a bit boring 20 minutes mounting 2 din rails

  • @stewartfrye
    @stewartfrye 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As always you do a great job, but I do have a question. That looks like 1,500.00 of electronics, to run a 70 year old motor, Why not a 3 phase motor and a VFD? I know you prefer to keep things as it was built, but I'm wondering why this route?

    • @Looptydude
      @Looptydude 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He mentioned in an earlier video that dc motors have better torque characteristics at low rpm than a 3 phase with vfd. Also the DC motor has a gear box that is part of the motor. People have done the 3 phase conversion, but it's all preference and Keith wants to stay with the DC motor.

  • @johnlennon335
    @johnlennon335 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think you should talk with a friend of mine in Sandy, Utah. He is rather an expert in the 10EE (owning 6 or more and completely rebuilding some), but he also likes the original electronics and prefers to restore the original. He would probably like to have the components you are removing.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The old components were already gone when he got it.

  • @SuperZylar
    @SuperZylar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    those dual potentiometers are called stereo potentiometers, they are mainly used in amps to adjust volume for the left en right channel.

    • @Mishn0
      @Mishn0 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Depends on whether the motor drive has the same specs for both pots. They might be (probably are) wound differently for the field voltage and motor voltage.

    • @stuarthardy4626
      @stuarthardy4626 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Mishn0 would they need to be linear or logarithmic not sure with out the spec sheet

    • @russkepler
      @russkepler 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The dual pots on the Monarch drive (used in the tube drives but the modular ones are a little different values) are really interesting pots. Besides being 2W wire wound linear pots, half of the wiper travel on each pot is shorted - the first half for the field pot and the second half for the armature pot. This makes sure that the field is kept at the maximum value for the armature voltage ramping and the armature maxed for the field weakening range. I've made replacements using original wirewound pots and painting half the travel with the silver trace repair paint.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have heard them called dual gang.

  • @rickburris6164
    @rickburris6164 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. I just have one question: why did you use slotted screws to mount the assembly board to the mounting brackets? Wouldn't phillips or socket head screws have been better?

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He probably used what he had. What difference does it make? Why would Phillips or Allen be better? All the fastener has to do is not break and not fall out.

    • @rickburris6164
      @rickburris6164 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michael931 Don't get upset, I was just curious why he used slotted screws.

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rickburris6164 not upset. Just wondering why those would be better as you stated.

    • @rickburris6164
      @rickburris6164 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michael931 slotted screwdrivers are notorious for slipping out of the slots and stripping out and are generally not good for applying torque.

  • @catfishgray3696
    @catfishgray3696 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    KEITH, PET THE CRITTERS, GREAT VIDEO...

  • @glennstasse5698
    @glennstasse5698 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Any plans to add those wiring channels (not sure what they are called) to manage the rats nest of wires likely to result when all the wires are in?

    • @michael931
      @michael931 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      They are called duct or Panduit usually. But they take up room and he is tight on space. So I don't think they would help in this case.

  • @WilliamTMusil
    @WilliamTMusil ปีที่แล้ว

    Hiya Keith

  • @DolezalPetr
    @DolezalPetr 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have exatly the same DC motor controller, that is pretty cool

  • @Sixta16
    @Sixta16 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Somebody should tell americans, that DIN rails are supposed to be mounted horizontally :P

  • @geckoproductions4128
    @geckoproductions4128 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    GROMMETS!

  • @karmannqcannara6424
    @karmannqcannara6424 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    God I love this guy!

  • @pyromedichd1
    @pyromedichd1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very professional looking.

  • @combatmedic1980
    @combatmedic1980 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is there not a conceren with a galvantic reaction with the dissimular metals?

    • @truracer20
      @truracer20 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why? Electrically speaking proper bonding will include a ground between the board and tray and between the tray and machine body. This eliminates grounding through mounting connections. But anytime a steel to aluminum connection is made for bonding then yes No OX, OX Guard or similar needs used. On this panel the only likely place it's needed is a ground lug for bonding purposes.

  • @mikelamuraglia5645
    @mikelamuraglia5645 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great job

  • @henryD9363
    @henryD9363 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I looked up the Parker 415C and it's not a simple item! Cost is appx $2-3K.
    Setup is not for the faint of heart!
    It has 12 potentiometers and 10 dip switches. The potentiometers are not set correctly from the factory, according to the 43 page users manual.
    The dip switch and potentiometer settings are used for startup voltage ramping and a bunch of other settings related to the particular motor and its application. The pots are adjusted using electronic instruments during the complex sequence of setup procedures.
    It does have fixed voltage field outputs, F- and F+, but as he said, these are not suitable for his application.
    Quite a rabbit hole reading the user manual.

  • @WillyBemis
    @WillyBemis 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Keith!

  • @dzarren
    @dzarren 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've always wondered about slamming the mill in reverse like you do when tapping the holes.
    I was tapping a 1/2-20 thread in the mill like this once, and slammed the mill in reverse to pull the tap out, Mt boss saw that and reamed me about about how it's "dangerous and hard on the mill"
    I could see that being kind of hard on the belts I suppose.
    But as for machine shop etiquette, is it improper to be slamming a 3 phase mill in and out of reverse like that?

  • @jamesbrownmiller808
    @jamesbrownmiller808 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    For many decades starting in the mid 1970’s I have built many panels and some special test sets, I would highly recommend that you use grommets when ever you past wire through any metal panel or box!

  • @garthbutton699
    @garthbutton699 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for another educational video🤗😎🤗😎

  • @The_DuMont_Network
    @The_DuMont_Network 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why fuses and not breakers? I am sure the designer has his reasons, but I am curious. I really hate searching for a replacement fuse when I need one an hour ago. Yes, you can leave spares in the enclosure, but that's a nuisance.

  • @marlobreding7402
    @marlobreding7402 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yep, me too I just had to look at my subscription list and Lo and Behold a new Keith Rucker video. Oh well my lay awake all night, 4:50 AM Pacific Northwest

  • @rexmyers991
    @rexmyers991 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    As an aircraft mechanic I know how insidious wire chafing caused by vibration can be. Strongly suggest you use some sort of grommets where the wire passes thru the holes. Nice job, Sir.

  • @larrydouglas3951
    @larrydouglas3951 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    For those who are asking about a 6 lead DC motor, some earlier DC motors brought out the interpole winding, which gets hooked up in series with the armature A1 or A2 lead. Ignoring it may result in excessive brush arcing under some conditions.

  • @tpobrienjr
    @tpobrienjr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks good! I will join the nitpickers (sorry) and ask whether the lockwashers are split-ring type or star type. The star type will work better in a vibration environment.

  • @bchrisl1491
    @bchrisl1491 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I looked up the manual for the 514C. It is an amazing product. It seems to be designed specifically for this application. Good research. I hope there are plans to use the tack feedback circuit as the feedback will really make the system shine.
    I agree there needs to be some sort of grommet on the through holes in the panel, maybe a chase nipple might fit the bill.

  • @jackdawg4579
    @jackdawg4579 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Surprisingly small package of electronics to replace all of that old stuff you stripped out.

  • @samuraidriver4x4
    @samuraidriver4x4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Looking good Keith.
    Only sugestion i would have would be drill and tap a hole for grounding.

  • @Drottninggatan2017
    @Drottninggatan2017 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I believe you should have a couple of support braces to that panel. Over time it might fatigue and fall over.
    A flag pole is fairly stable, but if you want to mount it upside down then you better use a support brace.

  • @richardsurber8226
    @richardsurber8226 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Pretty shnazzy

  • @rhadden8976
    @rhadden8976 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was rather surprised that the EE didn't design in any heat sinks, as previously mentioned in a post this will be dissipating a lot heat and keeping your electronics cool will extend the life. Very clean looking unit looking forward to seeing it work.

  • @wirenut003
    @wirenut003 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice work on the mounting plates, maybe you might want to add a cooling fan for the electrical parts so they don,t over heat in the warm hot days of summer.

  • @johnquinn3899
    @johnquinn3899 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Can you show the mechanism you used for running the tapping process in reverse ??

    • @samuraidriver4x4
      @samuraidriver4x4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He just ran the mill in reverse.

    • @johnquinn3899
      @johnquinn3899 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Where did the lever come from ?

    • @samuraidriver4x4
      @samuraidriver4x4 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@johnquinn3899 it's part of the mill

    • @johnquinn3899
      @johnquinn3899 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks johan, I would like to duplicate this lever, John

    • @johnquinn3899
      @johnquinn3899 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I should add, the on-off-reverse switch on my old Bridgeport is located on the top, left side of the machine towards the rear of the machine

  • @jonlong4866
    @jonlong4866 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice work on the panel. It really helps to have a clean and organized panel. Home Depot has snap-in 1in grommets.

  • @kentuckytrapper780
    @kentuckytrapper780 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video Keith, keep'um coming..

  • @casycasy5199
    @casycasy5199 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    looking very neat

  • @SciPunk215
    @SciPunk215 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the part of the job that every electronics hobbyist hates... drilling and tapping.
    At least Kieth has all the tools neccesary to make it as painless as possible.