I don't see an issue with showing a lot of math. Your channel is all about speedrunning and optimization, which inherently involves heavy math. I dig the math because it shows more intention by your actions. I think it would look bad if you didn't show more math because it shows your thoughtfulness
Sometimes I think he’s a bit obsessed. Specifically with showing damage ranges without specifying if accuracy and crit rates are taken into account, especially if you’re a competitive player where they are rarely taken into account. Plus there’s the distinction to be made between “hit” and “turn,” as “hit” implies the move is always hitting, so accuracy is to be discounted, but accuracy should be taken into account when measuring “turns.”
I mean, I could see someone viewing this level of optimization as not being in the spirit of Pokemon, a bit like using a score calculator mod for Balatro. The game is very much not intended to be played this way. But the entire concept of solo running Pokemon regardless of how much optimizing you do is already not the intended method of play so I don't know why you would be watching these videos if you care about that.
That thumbnail really is incredible. I think you did Tauros justice, it just isn’t well optimized for solo runs when its best move (Hyper Beam) is gated behind gambling. A Tauros that got hyper beam from the jump would probably be S tier. No surprise to see Snorlax go straight to S Tier, amnesia is just so busted in Gen 1 and Snorlax has enough stats to take advantage.
Unfortunately an 8-9 minute Brock split only leaves about 31 minutes left to get into S-tier. Unless it got hyper beam or some other Brock answer from the start I don’t think it’s feasible
@ZealousPawn Tauros getting Hyper Beam from the start is what I meant by “from the jump”. Also congrats on the shoutouts in the video! That’s putting in good work!
@ I see, I thought maybe you meant once you reach the game corner without the need to grind for coins. And thank you! Scott’s really generous with his shout-outs and quite humble. He’s a great player
@@ZealousPawn Yeah, getting Hyper Beam for free at the Game Corner would break the game wide open from that point, but it definitely comes too late if the Brock split isn’t fixed. The Brock split is a reason why I think Poliwhirl is going to end up with the fastest time, just a Pokémon with absolutely every tool it needs and just enough stats.
@@Dpmt the fastest time is a bold prediction. I won’t spoil anything but I have played Poliwhirl and can confirm he’s fantastic. Btw, I’m not sure if you’re on Scott’s discord or not but I’d encourage you to download his overlay and play a Poliwhirl solo run yourself if you haven’t already. You’ve clearly got a lot of game knowledge and he’s a fun one to play
18:34 the contrast between you showing off these cool menuing tricks you concocted to save frames, then immediately crashing the bike into a wall, pausing, riding the bike into a tree, then finally swerving around and managing to cut the bush is *sending* me
Your thumbnails have been getting better and better throughout this year, you've been giving these vs video pokemon such dynamic interactions with each other, definitely keep it up they're amazing!
Tbh what originally attracted me to this channel was the extensive breakdowns of basically everything which, spoiler alert, tends to have a lot to do with math when its something like a game that's essentially ALL ABOUT NUMBERS when you simplify it. Bigger number attacks first and uses it's numbers to try to make yours 0 before it does that to you. Keep up the great work brother, and thanks for making content that keeps the hunger of my 'Tism full and content (I really hope that comes off as a compliment 😅)
Math is great. The problem is that school is terrible at teaching it. Also, some people’s brains are just wired to understand numbers easier than others, just like everything else. I personally really enjoy when you go into the math of things because that’s kinda the whole point of this series, optimizing each pokemon’s play through
Tauros lack of move diversity early on is what holds it back in this format. Snorlax simply has more options early on. Also Tauros best move Hyper Beam is gated by the Game Corner and on a normal solo play through that would be impossible to get on a good time.
I absolutely love how much math is in your videos! I've been watching your videos for a very long time (I think since the Voltorb run?) and watching you get better at the game and reveal how crucial math is to optimizing the game and the Pokemon has been extremely cool. Please keep the math in!!!
Snorlax has to be one of the more complicated Pokemon that you've played. Having to juggle physical and special moves like that led to a lot of cool optimizations.
On the twelfth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me: The Giants of Gen One A deer and a giraffe The two pink blob matchup The Anubis dog herself A big cuddly boy in Kanto Two Airlane Dragon Pokemon Three Bulky Normal Types The Gen I Middle Stages An OP Eevee in Yellow An OP Pikachu in Yellow A slow level up group ice tree And the slowest hitmon brother
I'm a bit stuck on the black out training vs resets. Personally it feels like a loophole to dodge resets. If anyone feels the contrary I'd enjoy another perspective. No hate all love and this channel is very enjoyable. Thank you for all your work.
I consider Blackout training a legit strategy when it’s intentionally the best way to train… which is often the case at the light years Jr trainer in Brock’s gym. Unintentional blackouts should increment the faults counter
I remember watching in the beginning, some videos were painful to watch :P Happy I decided to stick around though, you've come a long way in 5 years :) I always enjoy watching your videos, keep making videos and further improvements to your gameplay 👍
Fire Red, Platinum, Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, Crystal, and Emerald. Today was third Yellow in a row, so tomorrow it will be Crystal, and Saturday will be Emerald. What I don't know is if he will add to the pattern like the Days of Christmas song. So we'll get like "one snorlax snoring" "two taurous tauring" or something like that. I'm sure it's going to be a big reveal at the end of Daily December. I can't wait for what he's actually written. Scott, you're a mad genius.
Ok. Just hear me out. Here’s my head canon: Tauros was the Pokémon originally given “Tail Whip” because of the shape of its tail and was originally a high power attacking move that could cause a flinch (as a whip would with its sound) but was too OP so they scrapped it
After watching the first playthroughs, I kinda figured that Snorlax would see more improvement than Tauros did and ultimately come out on top, but damn I did not expect Lax's time to improve that much. Also it is very funny to me that two of the spots in the S tier of a speedrunning tier list are taken up by two Pokemon known for being slow (Snorlax and Slowbro). Goes to show how broken Amnesia is in these games.
They probably realized the same thing, since this is the only generation where it can learn Harden. From Gen II onwards, it can learn Defense Curl instead.
so much of RBY is only half thought out, and they were kind of flying by the seat of their pants/crunched for time/underbudget/any other 90's game dev problem you can imagine. the OG Red/Green's production was a trainwreck that miraculously produced a somewhat playable game. It could be much worse than it was, but a lot of the mechanics were not fully formed, and the flavor was in many ways different than it became even in GSC. Snorlax learning Harden instead of Defense Curl is probably because Harden was the first of the two moves to be designed. yeah, they're mechanically identical, but the flavor's different. but there's very little moveset quality control, because that whole mechanic, the way movesets even work in Pokemon, had just been invented by the team, and even they didn't grasp its implications or what they should be doing with it. I still think Game Freak doesn't understand the system as well as obsessive fans do, leading to some bizarre choices even in modern games. obviously by the time of GSC the team realized the oversight. IIRC a lot of Kanto Pokemon have better movesets in GSC, but a lot of the shitshow movesets are from the new Pokemon. This is an indication that a lot of the designs were finalized later in development, and why there's so many gen I Pokemon all over Johto, with the new Pokemon feeling like an afterthought. People often don't understand Gen I and Gen II design choices because they're looking retroactively through the angle of subsequent games, but if you want to understand what was going on, you have to throw all of that out. We can after-the-fact criticize these choices, but people tend to be totally and confidently ignorant of the actual production history. Recently, I've been thinking about this, and the recent leaks have produced a lot of evidence validating the perspective of Pokemon being vaguely defined and still rather unformed until Gen III. I saw a video which imagined what would happen if there were no further Pokemon games after Gold/Silver, and that video was enormously helpful for my thinking about it. The more games and the further in time we get from the old games, the trickier it becomes to actually see the games in the proper context. The future games obscure context rather than providing it, in a lot of cases.
Remember childhood. I traded in a cut pokemon skipped the ss Anne and went one to beat Koga with a very underdeveloped snorlax and went back to vermilion to surf to the pickup. Was very disapointed
Remember when Ash caught 30 Tauros and then a Snorlax… and it was the latter that reliably served as a powerful bruiser? Meanwhile, the herd of Tauros were… just there, with one or two seeing some action here and there.
Hey Scott you are absoloutely killing it with Daily December, thank you so much for the quality content! Hoping to eventually see more custom art for some of your recently named trainers because I just get this vision of a completely jacked Scientist with ripped labcoat sleeves and bulging biceps everytime I hear you say Protein Scientist. On a side note I just started a blind Nuzlocke of your romhack and loving it so far. First gym finished and it was cool seeing you as the gym leader! Just wanted you to know that YES, I did spam sand attack against your pokemon because I'm pretty sure that's a natural law of the universe at this point. Cheers for all of your and your teams hard work, and I'm looking forward to more daily december tomorrow!
The amount of detail in the replay is astonishing. Amazing to see there is still something to learn about a game you've played so much over the past years!
I don't understand people who hate-watch. If you're not interested in heavily optimized, stat-focused runs, why are you watching challenges like these? I personally don't like reducing Pokémon to math either but that's _why_ I like watching these. It's a completely different perspective on things that I otherwise would never consider and I think that's fascinating.
Pokemon is literally all MATH. From the stats, to character design, world building. Like a potion healing for 20 hp is still math. The entire solo running format revolves around math. It’s why I feel validated as an engineer hyper fixating on the math.
On the twelfth day of Christmas, Scott’s Thoughts gave to me… Twelve bear v bull brawls, Eleven Gen 1 backports, Ten pounds per pink puff, Nine resists when evolved, Eight Belly Drum badges, Seven years with Psywave, Six slow squad solos, Five starter flings! Four Eevee runs, Three years post redo, Two Grass/Ice types, And a Hitmontop in Gen 3!
The two beasts of Gen 1 competitive, literally first and second in OU. Radically different format, the Slow growth rate likely will be their biggest problem. But they both still have STAB Body Slam, excellent coverage, and strong stat profiles. I think Snorlax' moveset superiority for this challenge overcomes the lower Speed for tiering--early Headbutt and non-TM Rest instead of Tackle, then Amnesia for lategame. Tauros has an excellent TM set of course, will lose less time and experience less risk by outspeeding everything, and Stomp will be great, but he may literally have the worst levelup learnset in history outside the ones purposely designed to have nothing (larval bugs, stone evolutions, Magikarp, and such).
I haven't watched this yet, and want to preface that I'll enjoy it... ...but I would have laughed if you had backported Miltank in this to mirror that Crystal video.
Love the accuracy with Giovanni sometimes just having to show off Guard Spec no matter how terrible it is. Like an otherwise honest TH-camr sometimes being forced to talk about how "great" Raid Shadow Legends is.
Unrelated to this video but down the line I’d love to see how some of the gen 1 Pokémon would do with their mega forms in this game. Some like mega charizard Y will just be a straight up upgrade but with something like mega beedrill I can’t help but wonder if the much lower special will come back to bite it whenever any special attack is used
I remember a Catch Em All Speedrun which uses every crazy memory alteration and corruption glitch in the game. One of the commentators remarked this isn't really playing a game anymore, it's just a really wierd programming language.
I don't know if it's hard to set up - but it would be nice that when you list which trainers you fight, we can see their teams on the side, like you were actually in battle with them
Initial prediction before watching, these two are gonna be incredible. But thats my competitive pokemon side, so maybe im putting too much stock in the competitive side
19:54 snorlax should be immune to paralysis from Body Slam. It's one of those weird gen 1 bugs, but normal types cant can't get that move's paralysis effect.
It's not a bug, it's entirely intentional. Moves that inflict status as a secondary effect do not do that if the Pokemon being hit by them is the same type as the move across the board in gen 1.
You should include the little time split bar graphs for your failed runs too. It would be nice to see where all the resets happen, or see how the risky fast splits look in comparison.
Just finished the first runs. Based on your commentary I’m going to say since I feel like snorlax is the less intuitive pokemon I think it’s going to come out ahead in the second runs. As for a time difference I’m going to say I think it can do it in around 41 minutes or so and tauros will end up being around 42-43 with snorlax winning by 1-2 minutes. Here’s hoping this doesn’t age well (I love tauros)
I think a nuance of the Slow growth rate is starting to show in how it hurts Tauros but benefits Snorlax. You’ll spend more time leveling up, but if you don’t need a high level of finish for any major fight and can get by with the tools you have, the fact that you level up more slowly kinda becomes a benefit since you’re taking off time from level-ups and getting prompts to learn new moves (this gets even more pronounced when working with Pokémon that learn more moves via leveling up, especially if you level up more quickly), doubly so if you’re relying on badge boosting. Since Snorlax has all the tools needed for a decently safe run at a lower level, Slow benefits it, but in Tauros’ case, it’s lacking a few options like coverage for Rock types early on, worse bulk, and no setup moves, so Slow hurts it, at least from a consistency perspective. This is all why I think Mewtwo will likely still get the top time.
I feel like anyone who complained about the math is either joking or new to the channel. Playing Pokemon at a high level, whether it's competitive, speedrunning, or challenges is all about the math
Haven't seen the whole video yet but a thought crossed my mind. Would struggle with same type attack bonus do enough damage to knock Brock out faster? My thought is starting the fight with enough tackles for Geodude and struggle onyx. Not sure if that would be viable or not.
I’ve been with your channel since the beginning (when you were still trying to get through your run script in one take) but you’ve never tried to hide what your channel is about. Your content is about IN DEPTH runs of Pokémon, if they want more gloss over runs and summary they should find another channel. Always stay true Scott! In depth runs + puns =Scott’s
Before watching I expect similar results to the Tauros vs Kangaskhan video, Tauros has better stats but the ability to have access to better coverage sooner will be in Snorlax's favor.
Considering how quickly you got body slam after stomp I think it would’ve been worth thugging it out with tackle and saving those rare candies for later levels
@scotts thoughts I thought double kick does 30 damage per hit so 60 total. Doesn't low kick do 50 damage therefore double kick is a bigger threat than low kick (unless you are factoring Flinch) in your mention against the nidoran and mankey
When you lost to Brock's Onix, why'd you reset? Wouldn't it be better to blackout and keep the experience? In the voiceover, you had just been talking about blackout training vs. the rival.
Didn't you consider replacing Body Slam with Blizzard on the follow-up Tauros run? At that point it's nearly useless, and keeping Mimic lets you access Slash from the Rival's Persian.
I saw gyrados was in d tier I wonder how it would compare in gen 2 and gen 4 ? What's more important physical/ special split or the 1st gyms leader not being rock type.
I know your channel is more about solo running. But I wonder how difficult it is to complete the Sinnoh dex in Diamond/Pearl. In order to get the national dex, you have to have that completed first.
Initial thoughts before watching the entire video; Snorlax not only has absolutely everything it needs to make up for its slow growth rate, it also has just enough to get through Brock relatively quickly. Tauros starts with... good stats, crit rate, and Tackle. This is not going to be close. Will edit after watching the whole thing. Edit post runs. Yeah, that all tracked. I suppose the worst part is that this is much closer if Tauros even gets Stomp to start, let alone some of the other suggestions in the comments. I did not expect Snorlax to do as well as it did, though, because I thought almost every else getting a turn first would slow things down.
While I agree there is more to pokemon than math, it is at the end of the day an RPG. As an RPG, the gameplay is largely about how to weaponize math in your favor. That does remind me though, what happened to the bonk counter? I miss it every time I remember it used to be a thing :(
I don't see an issue with showing a lot of math. Your channel is all about speedrunning and optimization, which inherently involves heavy math. I dig the math because it shows more intention by your actions. I think it would look bad if you didn't show more math because it shows your thoughtfulness
The venn diagram with speedrun nerds and math nerds is a circle
And besides, it isn't even math, it's "is it higher?".
Sometimes I think he’s a bit obsessed. Specifically with showing damage ranges without specifying if accuracy and crit rates are taken into account, especially if you’re a competitive player where they are rarely taken into account. Plus there’s the distinction to be made between “hit” and “turn,” as “hit” implies the move is always hitting, so accuracy is to be discounted, but accuracy should be taken into account when measuring “turns.”
I mean, I could see someone viewing this level of optimization as not being in the spirit of Pokemon, a bit like using a score calculator mod for Balatro. The game is very much not intended to be played this way. But the entire concept of solo running Pokemon regardless of how much optimizing you do is already not the intended method of play so I don't know why you would be watching these videos if you care about that.
I like the granular explanations
Snorlax just wants to nap and Scott keeps making it do speedruns.
Next vid: LET'S SEE HOW SNORLAX DOES IN MARIO 64
I demand more Chansey.
Not true.
It also wants to eat.
Me at work
@@isaacvanderbilt4505Scott ran it forever ago. Now chansey could jump… several tiers 😏
An unstoppable force meets an immovable object
You can bet just as sure as you live
An unskippable cutsceen meets an immediate quick-time event
That thumbnail really is incredible.
I think you did Tauros justice, it just isn’t well optimized for solo runs when its best move (Hyper Beam) is gated behind gambling. A Tauros that got hyper beam from the jump would probably be S tier.
No surprise to see Snorlax go straight to S Tier, amnesia is just so busted in Gen 1 and Snorlax has enough stats to take advantage.
Unfortunately an 8-9 minute Brock split only leaves about 31 minutes left to get into S-tier. Unless it got hyper beam or some other Brock answer from the start I don’t think it’s feasible
@ZealousPawn Tauros getting Hyper Beam from the start is what I meant by “from the jump”.
Also congrats on the shoutouts in the video! That’s putting in good work!
@ I see, I thought maybe you meant once you reach the game corner without the need to grind for coins.
And thank you! Scott’s really generous with his shout-outs and quite humble. He’s a great player
@@ZealousPawn Yeah, getting Hyper Beam for free at the Game Corner would break the game wide open from that point, but it definitely comes too late if the Brock split isn’t fixed.
The Brock split is a reason why I think Poliwhirl is going to end up with the fastest time, just a Pokémon with absolutely every tool it needs and just enough stats.
@@Dpmt the fastest time is a bold prediction. I won’t spoil anything but I have played Poliwhirl and can confirm he’s fantastic.
Btw, I’m not sure if you’re on Scott’s discord or not but I’d encourage you to download his overlay and play a Poliwhirl solo run yourself if you haven’t already. You’ve clearly got a lot of game knowledge and he’s a fun one to play
I love you talking about menu optimisations whilst repeatedly bonking into walls
Scott: *gets worst luck possible* "maximum quantity of unluck"
18:34 the contrast between you showing off these cool menuing tricks you concocted to save frames, then immediately crashing the bike into a wall, pausing, riding the bike into a tree, then finally swerving around and managing to cut the bush is *sending* me
He didn't concoct that menuing trick. It's been used in Gen 1 Pokemon speedruns for at least a decade.
Your thumbnails have been getting better and better throughout this year, you've been giving these vs video pokemon such dynamic interactions with each other, definitely keep it up they're amazing!
Yeah brains been doing a good job
"Pokemon isn't math" people when Plusle and Minun walk into the room
"Pokemon isn't math" people when they play Pokemon for the first time in their life:
Tbh what originally attracted me to this channel was the extensive breakdowns of basically everything which, spoiler alert, tends to have a lot to do with math when its something like a game that's essentially ALL ABOUT NUMBERS when you simplify it.
Bigger number attacks first and uses it's numbers to try to make yours 0 before it does that to you.
Keep up the great work brother, and thanks for making content that keeps the hunger of my 'Tism full and content (I really hope that comes off as a compliment 😅)
Math is great. The problem is that school is terrible at teaching it. Also, some people’s brains are just wired to understand numbers easier than others, just like everything else. I personally really enjoy when you go into the math of things because that’s kinda the whole point of this series, optimizing each pokemon’s play through
Tauros lack of move diversity early on is what holds it back in this format. Snorlax simply has more options early on. Also Tauros best move Hyper Beam is gated by the Game Corner and on a normal solo play through that would be impossible to get on a good time.
I absolutely love how much math is in your videos! I've been watching your videos for a very long time (I think since the Voltorb run?) and watching you get better at the game and reveal how crucial math is to optimizing the game and the Pokemon has been extremely cool. Please keep the math in!!!
51:05 Scott didn't bring it up in his explanation, but Alakazam clealry got a Special drop with Psychic which let Magneton survive
Those time taken for each split graphs are really illustrative and useful. :) very cool.
Snorlax has to be one of the more complicated Pokemon that you've played. Having to juggle physical and special moves like that led to a lot of cool optimizations.
Almost too many options, it’s kinda hard to narrow down
On the twelfth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me:
The Giants of Gen One
A deer and a giraffe
The two pink blob matchup
The Anubis dog herself
A big cuddly boy in Kanto
Two Airlane Dragon Pokemon
Three Bulky Normal Types
The Gen I Middle Stages
An OP Eevee in Yellow
An OP Pikachu in Yellow
A slow level up group ice tree
And the slowest hitmon brother
Oh yeah not everything was a backport.
I'm a bit stuck on the black out training vs resets. Personally it feels like a loophole to dodge resets. If anyone feels the contrary I'd enjoy another perspective.
No hate all love and this channel is very enjoyable. Thank you for all your work.
I consider Blackout training a legit strategy when it’s intentionally the best way to train… which is often the case at the light years Jr trainer in Brock’s gym. Unintentional blackouts should increment the faults counter
Pokémon math is one of the reasons that made me put in some effort in learning math. Keep it up!
Also the mimic tm movement pattern was fire
I remember watching in the beginning, some videos were painful to watch :P Happy I decided to stick around though, you've come a long way in 5 years :) I always enjoy watching your videos, keep making videos and further improvements to your gameplay 👍
The last time I had so much fun listening to a guy talk about a bear and bull was in New Vegas.
Almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
🎶 I've got spurs, that jingle jangle jingle
Fire Red, Platinum, Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, Crystal, and Emerald. Today was third Yellow in a row, so tomorrow it will be Crystal, and Saturday will be Emerald. What I don't know is if he will add to the pattern like the Days of Christmas song. So we'll get like "one snorlax snoring" "two taurous tauring" or something like that. I'm sure it's going to be a big reveal at the end of Daily December. I can't wait for what he's actually written. Scott, you're a mad genius.
For such a slow mon, Snorlax sure is doing a lot of running lately.
More Maths and cool charts please. There isn't ENOUGH.
And please round the numbers in the post-battle stats screen!
Ok. Just hear me out. Here’s my head canon:
Tauros was the Pokémon originally given “Tail Whip” because of the shape of its tail and was originally a high power attacking move that could cause a flinch (as a whip would with its sound) but was too OP so they scrapped it
After watching the first playthroughs, I kinda figured that Snorlax would see more improvement than Tauros did and ultimately come out on top, but damn I did not expect Lax's time to improve that much.
Also it is very funny to me that two of the spots in the S tier of a speedrunning tier list are taken up by two Pokemon known for being slow (Snorlax and Slowbro). Goes to show how broken Amnesia is in these games.
Why in the world did they give Snorlax Harden instead of Defense Curl? It's literally a circle?
He’s gotta flex those cartoon bear muscles obviously
I don't think he's physically capable of curling up 😂 i imagine it would be like a sit up for him
They probably realized the same thing, since this is the only generation where it can learn Harden. From Gen II onwards, it can learn Defense Curl instead.
so much of RBY is only half thought out, and they were kind of flying by the seat of their pants/crunched for time/underbudget/any other 90's game dev problem you can imagine. the OG Red/Green's production was a trainwreck that miraculously produced a somewhat playable game. It could be much worse than it was, but a lot of the mechanics were not fully formed, and the flavor was in many ways different than it became even in GSC. Snorlax learning Harden instead of Defense Curl is probably because Harden was the first of the two moves to be designed. yeah, they're mechanically identical, but the flavor's different. but there's very little moveset quality control, because that whole mechanic, the way movesets even work in Pokemon, had just been invented by the team, and even they didn't grasp its implications or what they should be doing with it. I still think Game Freak doesn't understand the system as well as obsessive fans do, leading to some bizarre choices even in modern games.
obviously by the time of GSC the team realized the oversight. IIRC a lot of Kanto Pokemon have better movesets in GSC, but a lot of the shitshow movesets are from the new Pokemon. This is an indication that a lot of the designs were finalized later in development, and why there's so many gen I Pokemon all over Johto, with the new Pokemon feeling like an afterthought. People often don't understand Gen I and Gen II design choices because they're looking retroactively through the angle of subsequent games, but if you want to understand what was going on, you have to throw all of that out. We can after-the-fact criticize these choices, but people tend to be totally and confidently ignorant of the actual production history. Recently, I've been thinking about this, and the recent leaks have produced a lot of evidence validating the perspective of Pokemon being vaguely defined and still rather unformed until Gen III.
I saw a video which imagined what would happen if there were no further Pokemon games after Gold/Silver, and that video was enormously helpful for my thinking about it. The more games and the further in time we get from the old games, the trickier it becomes to actually see the games in the proper context. The future games obscure context rather than providing it, in a lot of cases.
Because snorlax can't touch their toes
13:44 Congrats to Lt Surge on coming out.
Remember childhood. I traded in a cut pokemon skipped the ss Anne and went one to beat Koga with a very underdeveloped snorlax and went back to vermilion to surf to the pickup. Was very disapointed
I was the first kid in my school to game this out and then do it.
@michaelo9273 ah the 90s
Remember when Ash caught 30 Tauros and then a Snorlax… and it was the latter that reliably served as a powerful bruiser? Meanwhile, the herd of Tauros were… just there, with one or two seeing some action here and there.
No I don't, ash never caught those Tauros. That episode never existed, you can't fool me.
I love having a horde of your videos stocked yp to binge. So excited to get to the hgss section
omg I've been looking forward to these two for so long, this is going to be a fun watch!!
Hey Scott you are absoloutely killing it with Daily December, thank you so much for the quality content! Hoping to eventually see more custom art for some of your recently named trainers because I just get this vision of a completely jacked Scientist with ripped labcoat sleeves and bulging biceps everytime I hear you say Protein Scientist.
On a side note I just started a blind Nuzlocke of your romhack and loving it so far. First gym finished and it was cool seeing you as the gym leader! Just wanted you to know that YES, I did spam sand attack against your pokemon because I'm pretty sure that's a natural law of the universe at this point.
Cheers for all of your and your teams hard work, and I'm looking forward to more daily december tomorrow!
The amount of detail in the replay is astonishing. Amazing to see there is still something to learn about a game you've played so much over the past years!
Competitive Pokémon is literally math with flashing lights
And deciding between up to 9 options every turn, sometimes multiple times
Great vid & the artwork is fantastic. Looking foward to the next run.
Oh man this is gonna be the biggest blowout in a “yellow vs” video since…. Oh wait… yesterday… (and I said the same thing yesterday 😂)
Oh man I was completely wrong. Thought snorlaxs speed would be more problematic
The battle summary is really cool. Nice addition to the overlay.
I don't understand people who hate-watch. If you're not interested in heavily optimized, stat-focused runs, why are you watching challenges like these? I personally don't like reducing Pokémon to math either but that's _why_ I like watching these. It's a completely different perspective on things that I otherwise would never consider and I think that's fascinating.
Pokemon is literally all MATH. From the stats, to character design, world building. Like a potion healing for 20 hp is still math. The entire solo running format revolves around math. It’s why I feel validated as an engineer hyper fixating on the math.
Scott you're psychic. I was just thinking about how I wanted to see these two go head to head after seeing Snorlax's fire red run.
Actually he's poison/bug
These were great runs. It’s nice to see 2 powerhouse Pokemon slamming their way through the game
39:35 Wish I could leave a second like for the slow zoom in Copycat’s house. Made me laugh out loud.
Forgetful bear beats sleepy bear! Glad to see you continuing to grow!
Thanks for doing snorlax justice today I always knew he was top tier! My favourite mon of all time 🎉
On the twelfth day of Christmas, Scott’s Thoughts gave to me…
Twelve bear v bull brawls,
Eleven Gen 1 backports,
Ten pounds per pink puff,
Nine resists when evolved,
Eight Belly Drum badges,
Seven years with Psywave,
Six slow squad solos,
Five starter flings!
Four Eevee runs,
Three years post redo,
Two Grass/Ice types,
And a Hitmontop in Gen 3!
I just realised now after all this time, but Kakuna should be added onto the "impossible" tier, as its only damaging move is Struggle.
The two beasts of Gen 1 competitive, literally first and second in OU. Radically different format, the Slow growth rate likely will be their biggest problem. But they both still have STAB Body Slam, excellent coverage, and strong stat profiles. I think Snorlax' moveset superiority for this challenge overcomes the lower Speed for tiering--early Headbutt and non-TM Rest instead of Tackle, then Amnesia for lategame. Tauros has an excellent TM set of course, will lose less time and experience less risk by outspeeding everything, and Stomp will be great, but he may literally have the worst levelup learnset in history outside the ones purposely designed to have nothing (larval bugs, stone evolutions, Magikarp, and such).
Worst levelup learnset in history? May I introduce you to Ponyta?
I haven't watched this yet, and want to preface that I'll enjoy it...
...but I would have laughed if you had backported Miltank in this to mirror that Crystal video.
Amazing video and results!
I knew my boy Snorlax would crush the game, it's one absolute beast, and my favorite pokemon.
Greetings from Mexico.
Already calling that Snorlax is going to dominate.
As they say, "slow and steady wins the race".
And that's no bull, that would be Tauros.
Love the accuracy with Giovanni sometimes just having to show off Guard Spec no matter how terrible it is. Like an otherwise honest TH-camr sometimes being forced to talk about how "great" Raid Shadow Legends is.
Which fusion would be better?
Taurlax or Snoros?
Unrelated to this video but down the line I’d love to see how some of the gen 1 Pokémon would do with their mega forms in this game. Some like mega charizard Y will just be a straight up upgrade but with something like mega beedrill I can’t help but wonder if the much lower special will come back to bite it whenever any special attack is used
Yet again, Bruno has put in enough work for recognition. He’s been on a hot streak lately.
A videogame is just a very complicated math equation that plays animation based on certain data inputs for the variables.
I remember a Catch Em All Speedrun which uses every crazy memory alteration and corruption glitch in the game. One of the commentators remarked this isn't really playing a game anymore, it's just a really wierd programming language.
You’re the man, Scott
good stuff on the daily continues!
I don't know if it's hard to set up - but it would be nice that when you list which trainers you fight, we can see their teams on the side, like you were actually in battle with them
I much prefer how you have been doing things with all the math explained and involved in your videos. I find the damage ranges and such interesting.
Initial prediction before watching, these two are gonna be incredible. But thats my competitive pokemon side, so maybe im putting too much stock in the competitive side
Daily December has become a highlight of the holiday season for me😊
...is it bad that i was expecting a brilliant sponsor segment, after the "math" tangent? XD
Stacked Scientist and Protein Scientist conjure mental images of super buff bodybuilder types with nerdy glasses and lab coats
Stacked Scientist conjures a well-endowed lady scientist to me. Protein Scientist absolutely being a buff bodybuilder with glasses and a labcoat.
A pair of Bay watch esque Scientists
19:54 snorlax should be immune to paralysis from Body Slam. It's one of those weird gen 1 bugs, but normal types cant can't get that move's paralysis effect.
It's not a bug, it's entirely intentional. Moves that inflict status as a secondary effect do not do that if the Pokemon being hit by them is the same type as the move across the board in gen 1.
You should include the little time split bar graphs for your failed runs too. It would be nice to see where all the resets happen, or see how the risky fast splits look in comparison.
Just finished the first runs. Based on your commentary I’m going to say since I feel like snorlax is the less intuitive pokemon I think it’s going to come out ahead in the second runs. As for a time difference I’m going to say I think it can do it in around 41 minutes or so and tauros will end up being around 42-43 with snorlax winning by 1-2 minutes. Here’s hoping this doesn’t age well (I love tauros)
Poor tauros but damn well done sleepy buddy shouldn’t have underestimated
Im really curious if youre going to do a TAS with Tauros. You seem to be hinting that so I'm hopeful.
Re: cursor shenanigans, don't you just _love it_ when menus are a smooth flow? Feels like gliding~
Nice to see some judgement for Snorlax.
19:12 dude that optimization was intense! I had to go back and watch it again lol
Viewer: Wait, Pokemon is math...?
Scott's Thoughts: Always has been.
I think a nuance of the Slow growth rate is starting to show in how it hurts Tauros but benefits Snorlax.
You’ll spend more time leveling up, but if you don’t need a high level of finish for any major fight and can get by with the tools you have, the fact that you level up more slowly kinda becomes a benefit since you’re taking off time from level-ups and getting prompts to learn new moves (this gets even more pronounced when working with Pokémon that learn more moves via leveling up, especially if you level up more quickly), doubly so if you’re relying on badge boosting.
Since Snorlax has all the tools needed for a decently safe run at a lower level, Slow benefits it, but in Tauros’ case, it’s lacking a few options like coverage for Rock types early on, worse bulk, and no setup moves, so Slow hurts it, at least from a consistency perspective.
This is all why I think Mewtwo will likely still get the top time.
I feel like anyone who complained about the math is either joking or new to the channel. Playing Pokemon at a high level, whether it's competitive, speedrunning, or challenges is all about the math
I am so curious who you're going to pair against Dragonite in a versus video
Dragonite vs Gyarados?
probably not gonna happen, but I'd love to see goodra
Scott has the best character development since Zuko!
Good golly, that first race was so close!
Haven't seen the whole video yet but a thought crossed my mind. Would struggle with same type attack bonus do enough damage to knock Brock out faster? My thought is starting the fight with enough tackles for Geodude and struggle onyx. Not sure if that would be viable or not.
Yes, struggle does get STAB for normal types in gen1! And if you made it to the end of the video… you’ll see this came up :)
Please pick different colours when comparing the results. Snorlax’s results are so dark it’s kind of hard to read
I’ve been with your channel since the beginning (when you were still trying to get through your run script in one take) but you’ve never tried to hide what your channel is about.
Your content is about IN DEPTH runs of Pokémon, if they want more gloss over runs and summary they should find another channel.
Always stay true Scott!
In depth runs + puns =Scott’s
Before watching I expect similar results to the Tauros vs Kangaskhan video, Tauros has better stats but the ability to have access to better coverage sooner will be in Snorlax's favor.
"Alright, Giovanni: He happened". Classic
Considering how quickly you got body slam after stomp I think it would’ve been worth thugging it out with tackle and saving those rare candies for later levels
Leaving in your restarting to say "restarted" instead of "reset" is so damn meta.
@scotts thoughts I thought double kick does 30 damage per hit so 60 total. Doesn't low kick do 50 damage therefore double kick is a bigger threat than low kick (unless you are factoring Flinch) in your mention against the nidoran and mankey
Dope run.
Finally a good Snorlax run
When you lost to Brock's Onix, why'd you reset? Wouldn't it be better to blackout and keep the experience? In the voiceover, you had just been talking about blackout training vs. the rival.
Does Giovanni use the Guard Spec more when you use applicable moves like Psychic?
I believe guard spec is a static ~25% chance each turn, with a limit of 1 per pokemon
28:59 I don't think you understand how MIGHTY Tauros "tail" whip is man 🐍
Didn't you consider replacing Body Slam with Blizzard on the follow-up Tauros run? At that point it's nearly useless, and keeping Mimic lets you access Slash from the Rival's Persian.
I like the train of thought but unfortunately blizzard doesn’t have the damage to OHKO Giovanni’s Nidos, hence the double team strat
@@ZealousPawn Wait, I forgot to mention when XD
I mean after Lorelei or Bruno.
@ oh, he does upgrade ice beam to blizzard in the optimized playthrough at Bruno
2:26 replace Pokémon yellow with gen1 and gen3 and gen4 Pokémon and I'd agree wholeheartedly
I saw gyrados was in d tier I wonder how it would compare in gen 2 and gen 4 ? What's more important physical/ special split or the 1st gyms leader not being rock type.
I know your channel is more about solo running. But I wonder how difficult it is to complete the Sinnoh dex in Diamond/Pearl. In order to get the national dex, you have to have that completed first.
Initial thoughts before watching the entire video; Snorlax not only has absolutely everything it needs to make up for its slow growth rate, it also has just enough to get through Brock relatively quickly. Tauros starts with... good stats, crit rate, and Tackle. This is not going to be close. Will edit after watching the whole thing.
Edit post runs. Yeah, that all tracked. I suppose the worst part is that this is much closer if Tauros even gets Stomp to start, let alone some of the other suggestions in the comments. I did not expect Snorlax to do as well as it did, though, because I thought almost every else getting a turn first would slow things down.
With how much Venomoth changes types, I wonder how good it actually would have been in Gen 1 if it was Psychic Flying.
While I agree there is more to pokemon than math, it is at the end of the day an RPG. As an RPG, the gameplay is largely about how to weaponize math in your favor. That does remind me though, what happened to the bonk counter? I miss it every time I remember it used to be a thing :(
How are Snorlax and Slowbro some of the FASTEST Pokemon? I love these videos, lol. Great runs. Tauros actually did really good.
I wonder what snorlax’s time would be with a medium slow growth rate