Most of us in the caving game refer to the standard Croll/Hand-jammer technique as the Frog or Sit/Stand method. And when I say “most of us” then obviously it’s a big planet & I’m referring to cavers in the UK, Western Europe, the Americas etc… Been a long time since I read the histories but the Frenchies lay claim to inventing this during the exploration of the Gouffre Berger which was the first cave in the world to reach 1km depth, meaning that the whole ladder & lifeline technique became a bit too epic. As far as rope-walking goes, I’m not entirely sure who claims credit for that, but my suspicion is that multiple similar systems quite possible developed in multiple countries, as before the internet was a thing we were far more restricted to sharing of techniques etc…. The Americans were far more into rope walking systems than the Europeans as their very basic rigging methods meant that they didn’t have multiple obstacles (rebelays, deviations etc…) to deal with, and proper rope-walking makes passing these more time-consuming. So yes, that Italian dude might have created it, but I’m going to treat that as unproven until I make a few enquiries! Whilst genuine rope-walking has it’s place, the downsides in caves are that it’s difficult to maintain for long climbs, far more effort whilst carrying heavy kit, and with your hands above the jammer, the wet, muddy, and very cold rope can rapidly lead to cold & damp hands which can be a real problem if you’re underground for a long time. As far as rope access goes, the issue with holding the rope is relevant if your hands have resin, fuel, grease, dirt etc… on them, which unfortunately isn’t unusual when this is your job. I don’t mean to poo-poo rope-walking (i’ve been doing this shit for a long, long time), but I feel that it’s important for the keen, young rope access tigers to be aware of pros & cons with everything we do ;-)
Thank you for sharing this! This is great information🙏🏼! I would not think rope walking had an origin in caving for all the reasons mentioned. I mentioned caving because a lot of industrial climbers have no idea where our techniques come from. Most think it is from mountaineering. It is a relevant bit of history. If I need to make long ascents (in the rope access industry) I use this method. I find it more efficient with less sitback. I just rest every 20-30 meters for a bit and don't rush like you see the comp climbers do. It is just another tool in box for when needed. Personally I am not to worried about getting the ropes dirty. We are always handling ropes with dirty hands. Grease from jacking legs and cranes is everywhere. Residu from silo's (food/vegetable oils etc) too. That little bit that my hands add to it is no big deal. Its just part of the work environment. Thanks again for adding to the conversation👊🏻
and I would like to add that the proper way to push yourself up it's in the method name (Frog/Sit-Stand method), the legs should be right bellow you, in line with your center mass point, not in front as they normally tend. That should boost the push and waste energy.
I use my Taz 3 with a knee ascender all day no matter in a tree or rope access work. then switch over to the ID when I reach my work height. 10.5mm -11mm rope is the key for the Taz to slide up really easily
Increible video, gracias. Soy arborista y tecnico en acceso por cuerdas. Podemos combinar herramientas siempre y cuando no vaya en contra de la seguridad y las normas. Gracias nuevamente y saludos desde Argentina
Great video! Thank you for that. I'm interested in seeing if Saskia can add more tips and pointers for women on rope. Like common problems, how to spot a poor harness fit, muscle efficiency, habits and so-on.
Great question! It’s easy to forget that women and men have differently balance points among other more obvious differences, that have an impact on techniques and comfort.
An important point, differences in physiques are one thing, but more generic differences in weight distribution points, hip cradles etc must have a real impact, i'll be checking out the yesmaam team to see how it can help friends and colleagues get more height whilst minimising their efforts.
Incredible video, thank you! It has given some food for thought to consider getting a little cord for my hand ascender for a few massively vertical caves where I live that I’d like to continue exploring… anything 30m and under is fine and I already use the Pantin foot ascender but I still use the sit stand frog method instead of a walker technique. I’m highly considering putting the cord through my hand ascender and giving the walking method a try! It might be harder or less safe though I’m not sure yet so I’m gonna have to think and see how it feels. I’ve already tried to do a bit of rope walking holding the hand ascender but I struggle to catch the right pace to make it efficient.
Saskia's ascent technique is very interesting. I work and always improve my stair climb in between. I like to see other methods. I use the Lov3 from TAZ as a chest ascender, so I can descend immediately at any height. you learn all your life. you never stop learning. Thanks for the video. Thanks for the great effort. Keep it up. 4000 hearts.
Thank you for sharing! The Taz Lov3 is a great device. Saskia and me talked about it and how Yes Ma'am planned on using it in the speed climb part of the competition. However the organizers wanted to see a changeover as well so the setup you are using was not allowed.
Hi, I also use now a LOV3 most of the time when at work ! Efficient to climb with foot ascender + hand jammer or knee ascender. For a long climb, I add Ringos from Skylotec to we'll keep the rope in hand ! With LOV3 at work to climb and descent, the rescue is also easier if needed! I've made a (not so sexy, without any sound!) presentation in 2017 about foot ascenders use, feel free to watch it on my channel (it's the only video I've published!). Cheers
@@julienrivollet3654 the LOV3 seems like a versatile advice. I have played around with the 2 a bit and I quite like it. The 3 should be better. How does it perform on long drops (100mtr)? I had seen your video a long time ago. Very well put together.
@@TheRopeAccessChannel I tried the LOV2 and 3 on a 160m drop, and it was totally ok. I like that it doesn't twist the rope! It's a little bit more difficult to operate the handle, the effort must be a little bit more than other descenders. Also for rescue, you must well apply what the notice explains, if not the descent could be... Fast ! 😅
We deffo need more women in the rope industry. Great video again Alex and Saskia🤘🏼The shoulder strap tightening was a great tip. I already do that most of the time because I tend to tip over a lot if i’m in my i.d.
Thank You for sharing. Great technique. I have a question, if there no weight on the down end of rope the rope ascender will not work on stepping up at first, is there any tips without adding something to the rope end?
Sorry, but I think it is not as you say. The DED method is two devices. What Saskia presents is the CW method. The name is an abbreviation of the names of two gentlemen - Ciszewski and Wilk. Kind regards ✌️
Questions, Why the Petzl Ring?Other than the Flashy appeal It can be done with the Cowstail carabiner with the footloop inside it right? Just more to get get snug on when walking around on belt offshore somewhere or tight spaces? Question,Wouldnt Static 5-8mm Polyester(Very low stretch rope) be better for the hand to eliminate the stretch of bungy to help with the function of lifting the foot ascender/Basic up when grabbing rope to climb?
Knowing Saskia a little bit I don't think flashy appeal is any reason for which gear she uses. It's about efficiency and useability. I think she likes the small footprint and that it is one unit, so it is always ready to go. Like everything there a multiple ways to do something. Your way is perfectly fine. But that does not work for me. I like to be able to unclip my foot loop without opening the cowstail carabiner. I have tried a few ascents with here setup and I can imagine that a static cord would make it a more shocky experience. For instance, If you move your foot up a split second too late, the cord will cut/shock into your thumb or two fingers you are holding it with. The bungy won't limit hand movement at that moment. I have experienced any laggy feeling with the bungy.
Ok,so I tried the basic above the Croll with a ziptie (Which irritates/cuts hand after like 10meters climb because of rope sway) Also tried a 6mm Polyester fishermans bend loop on top of hand croll/foot loop and NOW I see why the Bungee. It helps retract the hand croll/foot loop upwards to grab when switching hands on ascent. Question,would you please make a video on what's the top 3 best configurations on climbing from bottom to top. At least 20meters. Detailed specifications and pros and cons of that method/setup.Also different perspectives of the ascent,step by step SLOWLY. The Public and community would love to see!
@@aaronochoa9168 So in fact I think right now I have the best three online. I played around with knee ascenders about 15 years ago and never got it to work as nice as i'd like and often a connected jumar is wanted by schemes or organizers. When using a chest ascender. You say the best 3 configurations. But what does that mean? What is the goal? Speed? Comfort? 100 meter ascent? Carry much gear or nothing at al? All those might have a different configuration. This ( th-cam.com/video/71PUDkmIJew/w-d-xo.html ) is one of the best configurations for long climbs carrying a lot of gear This video on rope walking for me shows the best way for speed And this ( th-cam.com/video/RmOgy7FlK8U/w-d-xo.html ) is favourite among people without a croll, or who are bigger. We could say that those three show the three principles of three different objectives. (speed,length,comfort). Within that we could use dozens of different types of gear (jumars, chest ascenders, footloops etc). Is that what you are looking for?
I’m guessing that “point of contact” is referring either to one or both: considered life support; above the hips or chest so when suspended by that point alone the body does not invert. Hanging upside down would not be good and make it extremely difficult to climb if relaxing will invert you.
Would be interesting to get your take on the differences of "standard"/rules/regulations/laws concerning rope work in trees and "the industry" and why these differences are there
Did you see the short: th-cam.com/users/shortspB6fdMAYHd8?feature=share I posted it on IG as well. If you check out the Instagram post there are some good comments on the short and reel i did. instagram.com/reel/CqdgLbzIJdz/?
Hey man, as rope walking, I think the arborist style is superior/ but to climb a rope the best method ever it is the RAD system by using the id or a Grigri+ a pulley or carabiner to create an advantage; you're always ready to descend , at all time By the way, I've seen that the croll can escape from the rope by using this technique you showed Love you channel! Hugs
@@verticalfeel I also do RAD with Rig when treeclimbing - for flexibility and safety (when attacked by wasps, etc.)... But now I would switch to Rope Runer or Akimbo and do rope walking. There is a good progress since I started amateur tree climbing a few years ago.
Great video. I do tree work and ascend via a mechanical device, foot and knee ascender. I move my system up via a chest harness. In your video, what is being used as the primary support device/descender? I may have missed it, but I believe there are 3 ascenders ? (Chest, hand and foot)? I did not see a descender ? Thanks
The rope walking systems with foot and knee ascender are aloud in three care industry because all devices for arborist are made as primary suport item (zigzag +chicane /roperuner/akimbo/hitchclimber system and etc.) and they produce no friction during ascent, particularly you had descender and ascender which can slide up on tight rope in one device. In rope access you had rope clamps - nit primary support device, so you need two of them, the second one is above you chest ascender. By the way it's a bad idea to use arborist devices in rope access just to be able to use knee ascent because the are very uncomfortable to use there. But, there are a few rope access devices which could be used for it(ascent-descent devices) such as taz lov3.
Thank you for you comment!! But was that not what we said in the video? In the arborist world a knee ascender works, but not in the rope access world. ( with a TazLOV3 it actually would work fine by the way). When using a croll we need a second point above it when in motion. When we are statically suspended just the croll is good enough. Thank you for your input! That is always appreciated🙏🏼
You are right, I think it depends on where you are too, and local “culture” or what is acceptable. I have seen many arborists climb up in there croll with just a foot and knee ascender. I will add that this was all more than 7 years ago, so my arborist knowledge is a bit out of date. Thanks for sharing
Just a quick observation, it seems Saskia has only one wrist bungee , and it seems two would keep her chest harness always under tension keeping her closer to the rope with less effort. Correct me if I’m wrong about either her setup or my conclusion.
That bungee is only there to enable here to move hand over hand. It pulls the Basic up. For her that works best to stay upright. I don’t use one. I slide my hands up, right hand under with my jumar, and left hand above. The only way to really stay close to the rope is to use a chest roller. Yes Ma’am employed that in China in a 100 meter “speed” climb. You can still find it on Instagram I think. Does that makes sense?
Joel Speleo has loads of great points. Beyond all of that though, if you employee a set of cows tails you always have 2 points of contact on the line/rope attached to the master connection point on your harness so life saving rated devices like a Croll or basic work here yeah? As for the TAZ Lov3, (based on other comments) ..why would any experienced climber trust their descent/ascent system in the same piece of equipment? Anyhoo beyond that , why has no one mentioned a chest roller? This improves efficiency greatly regarding energy and technique. My origins are rock climbing & caving, however the “ inventions oft the true origins of these systems“ or techniques all point to alpine mountaineering. We as people don’t build things the size of mountains so necessity is the catalyst of invention. Just saying. The fun thing about rope work and climbing is that there are no rules… that’s what makes you feel free! You can create and invent! Anyway I followed the yesmaam IG account and subscribed to your channel! Anyhoo.. If this is an argument we all are adding our thoughts into…., it’s a good day! Mk
Thanks for adding to the conversation! Thats why I do this! One croll and one cowstail to a jumar (and a backup on a backup rope). That would be the minimun. I dont see where you would put that second cowstail? As for the TAZ love3, why wouldn't you? If you have a device that acts as a rope clamp and as a descender, that saves you changing over in between the two. So I would change you question around.. Any experienced climber would like that. Go up, take of jumar and descend. I see no downside. Except for the fact that there are other descenders that operate smoother on the rope. And with a TAZL3 as a chest ascender, you do not need a secundary point above your chest ascender. You could go up hand over hand with a foot and knee ascender. Really efficient and quick. Oh.. I define efficient here as save(no change over), quick, and less energy loss because of sitback. We talked about the chest roller but it wasnt at the location, so it wasnt covered. YYESMAAM did use them on their 100 freehanging ascent in China in december 2022. I have never used a proper one, just something homemade that didnt work as good as a I would like.. But, it is definitely the way to go for big ascents!! In my mind, mountaineering is the source. Only there, ascending a rope was very rare in those days. To my understading... But in caving they evolved the techniques with ascending in ropes and working in a really rough on gear environment. That has more similarities to rope access than mountaineering.. Haha, and your last statement is both very correct and incorrect. In a professional working environment, there are dozens of rules and regulations we have to adhere to.Those give us our principles. Our creativity is what can get us to original methods. But still, the team needs to understand them. There are certain industries where there is a LOT more freedom to move around...
As long as you have your ASAP on and the Taz attached on your second line, you can ascend the rope fine. Unless your employer has more rules for you to follow. I see no rules in SPRAT or IRATA that say you can't use a knee ascender, as long as you have the Taz or ID on and your backup. Jim H.
You hit the nail on the head there Jim. Company or competition rules. Saskia and me were talking about a competition she recently did. They were planning on doing exactly that. Foot and Knee ascenders and a Taz3. But the competition had to see a changeover, so it did not make sense to use it there. 95% of the time we use company gear as well. They provide your basic kit. I'd/ASAP and harness with integrated chest ascender. And in that combo when ascending, you do need a point above the chest ascender. I've only seen a Taz at a worksite when someone used their own. Which for me was no problem but other team members were not familiar with the device, so he could still not use it. (What in case of an emergency)
@@TheRopeAccessChannel I understand what you are saying perfectly. Thank you for getting back to me. I train all my people on how the Taz works, like you said, if a rescue were needed, then everybody has to know the gear. That being said, anyone who is serious about having a solid rescue plan in place, should be familiar with the gear that is out there, because you might have to figure it out real quick when you need to help a person who is stuck Jim H.
Perfectly fine method. I used one in the past when I worked as an arborist. But like we say in the video, when we use a chest ascender rope access, we need a secondary point (jumar on a cowstail) when we are in motion. So in that case a knee ascender doesn't really add that much. We would still need that second point. Unless we would use a TazLOV for instance. Then it would be a great setup.
One hand is on the hand ascender. The other above. Or in Saskia's setup she explains about the elastic that drags the hand ascender up. The hand ascender clamps down on the rope automatically, not hands needed. Does that make it clearer for you?
That would depend on the industry you are working in. I see arborists do it all the time without. In the industrial rope access world a chest ascender is considered a full point in a static load. When in motion we need an extra poa above with cowstail or similar.
Quite interesting to hear - I heard a site supervisor once teach that a chest ascender was a half point. Then on the last 2 irata courses I've been through, it's been taught as just an old school thought.
@@AWD295 when static, not in motion, suspended in the croll it is a full point of contact. You do not need a second point. But when ascending you do need a point above. In some harnesses it has happened that the maillon prevented the teeth of the croll to grab. Meaning the tech slides down the rope until either the teeth catch or he reaches the end of the cowstail attached to the jumar. I would consider it as best practice. Added bonus is you can’t drop it or forget it on the rope when descending 😉👊🏼
@@AWD295 I agree that calling it half a point is old fashioned. That’s how learned 😂😂. I usually don’t bother pushing my point through. If they want something that does not make it unsafe I explain my point of view once and then accept.
Saskia had everything to climb up, but what device did she use to come down? this also means that once above she has to put a descending device on the climbing rope!
I’m not sure. It was a while back. Probably a Rig. So yes, she had to changeover. Changing over to a descender after ascending is a basic skill within rope access👍🏼
@@TheRopeAccessChannel Yes he was my faithful companion for 11 years, he was a small but very brave malinois ;-) My descending device was the PETZL eight, and we have a special harness for the dog!
If you reorganize your gear you can be quieter. I assume you use one rope te get up? No backup rope? Use a TazLov3 and knee ascender instead of a chest and hand ascender. All you might need extra on the harness is a positioning lanyard to go up.
Seriously? it is not even 10 minutes haha. Have you tried checking the chapters? Maybe look for the one about the rope walker technique and the one after that. What else would you like to know?
@@TheRopeAccessChannel 7:22 All I'm saying is: everyone's had their rope kick out of a foot ascender. Even if locking models are better... I can sympathize with OSHA on that.
Aha, that is what Saskia said right? Arborist often use different devices than a croll and don’t need a secondary device above that. Which makes sense. I can’t say anything about OSHA. I don’t know their exact stance on these things.
Thank you for that insightful comment. I am glad we can all learn from that… Or maybe share your knowledge. By the way no one in this video is claiming that it is the most effective way. Just a way to use gear so that it meets and stays within certain industry standards and/or competition rules. As explained in the video….
In the future I’ll be making a more elaborate video on the various rope walking systems. Maybe that will make it clearer for you. Keep practicing and if you have questions, you can ask here or email out Instagram DM
Most of us in the caving game refer to the standard Croll/Hand-jammer technique as the Frog or Sit/Stand method. And when I say “most of us” then obviously it’s a big planet & I’m referring to cavers in the UK, Western Europe, the Americas etc… Been a long time since I read the histories but the Frenchies lay claim to inventing this during the exploration of the Gouffre Berger which was the first cave in the world to reach 1km depth, meaning that the whole ladder & lifeline technique became a bit too epic.
As far as rope-walking goes, I’m not entirely sure who claims credit for that, but my suspicion is that multiple similar systems quite possible developed in multiple countries, as before the internet was a thing we were far more restricted to sharing of techniques etc…. The Americans were far more into rope walking systems than the Europeans as their very basic rigging methods meant that they didn’t have multiple obstacles (rebelays, deviations etc…) to deal with, and proper rope-walking makes passing these more time-consuming. So yes, that Italian dude might have created it, but I’m going to treat that as unproven until I make a few enquiries!
Whilst genuine rope-walking has it’s place, the downsides in caves are that it’s difficult to maintain for long climbs, far more effort whilst carrying heavy kit, and with your hands above the jammer, the wet, muddy, and very cold rope can rapidly lead to cold & damp hands which can be a real problem if you’re underground for a long time.
As far as rope access goes, the issue with holding the rope is relevant if your hands have resin, fuel, grease, dirt etc… on them, which unfortunately isn’t unusual when this is your job.
I don’t mean to poo-poo rope-walking (i’ve been doing this shit for a long, long time), but I feel that it’s important for the keen, young rope access tigers to be aware of pros & cons with everything we do ;-)
Thank you for sharing this! This is great information🙏🏼!
I would not think rope walking had an origin in caving for all the reasons mentioned. I mentioned caving because a lot of industrial climbers have no idea where our techniques come from. Most think it is from mountaineering. It is a relevant bit of history.
If I need to make long ascents (in the rope access industry) I use this method. I find it more efficient with less sitback. I just rest every 20-30 meters for a bit and don't rush like you see the comp climbers do. It is just another tool in box for when needed.
Personally I am not to worried about getting the ropes dirty. We are always handling ropes with dirty hands. Grease from jacking legs and cranes is everywhere. Residu from silo's (food/vegetable oils etc) too. That little bit that my hands add to it is no big deal. Its just part of the work environment.
Thanks again for adding to the conversation👊🏻
and I would like to add that the proper way to push yourself up it's in the method name (Frog/Sit-Stand method), the legs should be right bellow you, in line with your center mass point, not in front as they normally tend. That should boost the push and waste energy.
I use my Taz 3 with a knee ascender all day no matter in a tree or rope access work. then switch over to the ID when I reach my work height. 10.5mm -11mm rope is the key for the Taz to slide up really easily
The Taz 3 is a great device!!
Increible video, gracias. Soy arborista y tecnico en acceso por cuerdas. Podemos combinar herramientas siempre y cuando no vaya en contra de la seguridad y las normas. Gracias nuevamente y saludos desde Argentina
According to google translate I agree with you ;-) 👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
Please I need more of this technique
👍🏻
Great video! Thank you for that.
I'm interested in seeing if Saskia can add more tips and pointers for women on rope. Like common problems, how to spot a poor harness fit, muscle efficiency, habits and so-on.
Great suggestion! I'll get in touch with her and see what we can do! Thank you
Great question! It’s easy to forget that women and men have differently balance points among other more obvious differences, that have an impact on techniques and comfort.
An important point, differences in physiques are one thing, but more generic differences in weight distribution points, hip cradles etc must have a real impact, i'll be checking out the yesmaam team to see how it can help friends and colleagues get more height whilst minimising their efforts.
Incredible video, thank you! It has given some food for thought to consider getting a little cord for my hand ascender for a few massively vertical caves where I live that I’d like to continue exploring… anything 30m and under is fine and I already use the Pantin foot ascender but I still use the sit stand frog method instead of a walker technique. I’m highly considering putting the cord through my hand ascender and giving the walking method a try! It might be harder or less safe though I’m not sure yet so I’m gonna have to think and see how it feels. I’ve already tried to do a bit of rope walking holding the hand ascender but I struggle to catch the right pace to make it efficient.
With the right equipment and training both methods are safe.
From your description I am not sure what you mean exactly thoug
Thank you! Those videos helped me a lot in the IRATA L1 courses.
Thank you soooooo much!! this is very appreciated thank you!!!!
Gracias acabó de aprender más ❤❤❤
De Nada 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Saskia's ascent technique is very interesting. I work and always improve my stair climb in between. I like to see other methods.
I use the Lov3 from TAZ as a chest ascender, so I can descend immediately at any height.
you learn all your life. you never stop learning.
Thanks for the video. Thanks for the great effort. Keep it up. 4000 hearts.
Thank you for sharing!
The Taz Lov3 is a great device. Saskia and me talked about it and how Yes Ma'am planned on using it in the speed climb part of the competition. However the organizers wanted to see a changeover as well so the setup you are using was not allowed.
Hi,
I also use now a LOV3 most of the time when at work ! Efficient to climb with foot ascender + hand jammer or knee ascender.
For a long climb, I add Ringos from Skylotec to we'll keep the rope in hand !
With LOV3 at work to climb and descent, the rescue is also easier if needed!
I've made a (not so sexy, without any sound!) presentation in 2017 about foot ascenders use, feel free to watch it on my channel (it's the only video I've published!).
Cheers
@@julienrivollet3654 the LOV3 seems like a versatile advice. I have played around with the 2 a bit and I quite like it. The 3 should be better. How does it perform on long drops (100mtr)?
I had seen your video a long time ago. Very well put together.
@@TheRopeAccessChannel I tried the LOV2 and 3 on a 160m drop, and it was totally ok. I like that it doesn't twist the rope!
It's a little bit more difficult to operate the handle, the effort must be a little bit more than other descenders.
Also for rescue, you must well apply what the notice explains, if not the descent could be... Fast ! 😅
@@julienrivollet3654 haha, quite fast haha.
That’s what I found with the “2” as well. It requires more strength to operate.
Great video, thank you! Since she was using both feet and a foot ascender on one side and no knee ascender how was the other foot rigged?
That is all explained in the video my friend. Foot ascender and hand ascender w/ footloop
Im loving the change of content, it feels like a summer break. maybe next time we get to see you try her technique.
Watch all the way till the very end and in the last few seconds you see me behind the up next videos. Not as fast though🤪
This is great - some climbing history & technique/equipment display in one video - just learning to use these - really appreciate it - new sub!
Glad it was helpful! and thank you for the feedback
We deffo need more women in the rope industry. Great video again Alex and Saskia🤘🏼The shoulder strap tightening was a great tip. I already do that most of the time because I tend to tip over a lot if i’m in my i.d.
Awesome! Personally I actually tighten my back strap as well to be able get the front part even tighter and get even lesser sitback.
Thank You for sharing. Great technique.
I have a question, if there no weight on the down end of rope the rope ascender will not work on stepping up at first, is there any tips without adding something to the rope end?
Not really, you need some weight on it. Try to be slow in the beginning and foot position may help the rope slide through easy
Sorry, but I think it is not as you say. The DED method is two devices. What Saskia presents is the CW method. The name is an abbreviation of the names of two gentlemen - Ciszewski and Wilk. Kind regards ✌️
Thanks for adding to the conversation !
@@TheRopeAccessChannel✌️
Very nice easy to do good explanation
Thank you
That’s going to save me so much time
Definitely!
Questions, Why the Petzl Ring?Other than the Flashy appeal It can be done with the Cowstail carabiner with the footloop inside it right? Just more to get get snug on when walking around on belt offshore somewhere or tight spaces? Question,Wouldnt Static 5-8mm Polyester(Very low stretch rope) be better for the hand to eliminate the stretch of bungy to help with the function of lifting the foot ascender/Basic up when grabbing rope to climb?
Knowing Saskia a little bit I don't think flashy appeal is any reason for which gear she uses. It's about efficiency and useability. I think she likes the small footprint and that it is one unit, so it is always ready to go.
Like everything there a multiple ways to do something. Your way is perfectly fine. But that does not work for me. I like to be able to unclip my foot loop without opening the cowstail carabiner.
I have tried a few ascents with here setup and I can imagine that a static cord would make it a more shocky experience. For instance, If you move your foot up a split second too late, the cord will cut/shock into your thumb or two fingers you are holding it with. The bungy won't limit hand movement at that moment. I have experienced any laggy feeling with the bungy.
Ok,so I tried the basic above the Croll with a ziptie (Which irritates/cuts hand after like 10meters climb because of rope sway) Also tried a 6mm Polyester fishermans bend loop on top of hand croll/foot loop and NOW I see why the Bungee. It helps retract the hand croll/foot loop upwards to grab when switching hands on ascent. Question,would you please make a video on what's the top 3 best configurations on climbing from bottom to top. At least 20meters. Detailed specifications and pros and cons of that method/setup.Also different perspectives of the ascent,step by step SLOWLY. The Public and community would love to see!
@@aaronochoa9168 So in fact I think right now I have the best three online. I played around with knee ascenders about 15 years ago and never got it to work as nice as i'd like and often a connected jumar is wanted by schemes or organizers. When using a chest ascender.
You say the best 3 configurations. But what does that mean? What is the goal? Speed? Comfort? 100 meter ascent? Carry much gear or nothing at al? All those might have a different configuration.
This ( th-cam.com/video/71PUDkmIJew/w-d-xo.html ) is one of the best configurations for long climbs carrying a lot of gear
This video on rope walking for me shows the best way for speed
And this ( th-cam.com/video/RmOgy7FlK8U/w-d-xo.html ) is favourite among people without a croll, or who are bigger.
We could say that those three show the three principles of three different objectives. (speed,length,comfort). Within that we could use dozens of different types of gear (jumars, chest ascenders, footloops etc). Is that what you are looking for?
Very informative video. I didn't know that a foot/knee ascender isn't considered a point of contact. Subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!🙏🏼🙏🏼
I’m guessing that “point of contact” is referring either to one or both: considered life support; above the hips or chest so when suspended by that point alone the body does not invert.
Hanging upside down would not be good and make it extremely difficult to climb if relaxing will invert you.
@@nate2838 exactly, a point of contact is something that is attached at the hips or higher.
Great edit!
Thanks man! I appreciate it🙏🏼
Would be interesting to get your take on the differences of "standard"/rules/regulations/laws concerning rope work in trees and "the industry" and why these differences are there
Look out later tonight, ill post a short on the topic. Just my thought on how it came to be
Did you see the short:
th-cam.com/users/shortspB6fdMAYHd8?feature=share
I posted it on IG as well. If you check out the Instagram post there are some good comments on the short and reel i did.
instagram.com/reel/CqdgLbzIJdz/?
Hey man, as rope walking, I think the arborist style is superior/ but to climb a rope the best method ever it is the RAD system by using the id or a Grigri+ a pulley or carabiner to create an advantage; you're always ready to descend , at all time
By the way, I've seen that the croll can escape from the rope by using this technique you showed
Love you channel!
Hugs
@@verticalfeel I also do RAD with Rig when treeclimbing - for flexibility and safety (when attacked by wasps, etc.)... But now I would switch to Rope Runer or Akimbo and do rope walking. There is a good progress since I started amateur tree climbing a few years ago.
Thanks 🙏🏼
That can happen in a very rare instance. That is why the hand ascender needs to be connecting with a cowstail.
@@TheRopeAccessChannel I can't stop to see your videos 👏👏
Thanks for the answer 🙋
@@henrykg congrats! Go for your best 💪
Great video. I do tree work and ascend via a mechanical device, foot and knee ascender. I move my system up via a chest harness.
In your video, what is being used as the primary support device/descender? I may have missed it, but I believe there are 3 ascenders ? (Chest, hand and foot)? I did not see a descender ?
Thanks
At the top Saskia changes over to a descender. I think a Rig
The rope walking systems with foot and knee ascender are aloud in three care industry because all devices for arborist are made as primary suport item (zigzag +chicane /roperuner/akimbo/hitchclimber system and etc.) and they produce no friction during ascent, particularly you had descender and ascender which can slide up on tight rope in one device. In rope access you had rope clamps - nit primary support device, so you need two of them, the second one is above you chest ascender. By the way it's a bad idea to use arborist devices in rope access just to be able to use knee ascent because the are very uncomfortable to use there. But, there are a few rope access devices which could be used for it(ascent-descent devices) such as taz lov3.
Thank you for you comment!! But was that not what we said in the video? In the arborist world a knee ascender works, but not in the rope access world. ( with a TazLOV3 it actually would work fine by the way). When using a croll we need a second point above it when in motion. When we are statically suspended just the croll is good enough.
Thank you for your input! That is always appreciated🙏🏼
As an arborist it’s not allowed either but we use foot with knee ascender as well as our lifesupport friction device as well-the more you know lol
You are right, I think it depends on where you are too, and local “culture” or what is acceptable. I have seen many arborists climb up in there croll with just a foot and knee ascender. I will add that this was all more than 7 years ago, so my arborist knowledge is a bit out of date.
Thanks for sharing
We use this in tree work, look up SRT rope climbing
Yes, that is sort of what this video is about. Well only the ascending part haha not working SRT
Just a quick observation, it seems Saskia has only one wrist bungee , and it seems two would keep her chest harness always under tension keeping her closer to the rope with less effort.
Correct me if I’m wrong about either her setup or my conclusion.
That bungee is only there to enable here to move hand over hand. It pulls the Basic up. For her that works best to stay upright. I don’t use one. I slide my hands up, right hand under with my jumar, and left hand above.
The only way to really stay close to the rope is to use a chest roller. Yes Ma’am employed that in China in a 100 meter “speed” climb. You can still find it on Instagram I think.
Does that makes sense?
Great video and very interesting information. I love your channel ☺️
Glad you enjoy it! And thank you🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Hello, I'm a bit confused. She mentioned Petzl Basic as her hand descender but on the Petzl website it is an ascender. Thanks.
I don’t remember what Saskia said. A basic is a hand ascender. By the way, I have never heard or seen a hand descender 😉😉
@@TheRopeAccessChannel Thank you.😄
Joel Speleo has loads of great points. Beyond all of that though, if you employee a set of cows tails you always have 2 points of contact on the line/rope attached to the master connection point on your harness so life saving rated devices like a Croll or basic work here yeah?
As for the TAZ Lov3, (based on other comments) ..why would any experienced climber trust their descent/ascent system in the same piece of equipment?
Anyhoo beyond that , why has no one mentioned a chest roller? This improves efficiency greatly regarding energy and technique.
My origins are rock climbing & caving, however the “ inventions oft the true origins of these systems“ or techniques all point to alpine mountaineering. We as people don’t build things the size of mountains so necessity is the catalyst of invention. Just saying.
The fun thing about rope work and climbing is that there are no rules… that’s what makes you feel free! You can create and invent! Anyway I followed the yesmaam IG account and subscribed to your channel! Anyhoo.. If this is an argument we all are adding our thoughts into…., it’s a good day!
Mk
Thanks for adding to the conversation! Thats why I do this!
One croll and one cowstail to a jumar (and a backup on a backup rope). That would be the minimun. I dont see where you would put that second cowstail?
As for the TAZ love3, why wouldn't you? If you have a device that acts as a rope clamp and as a descender, that saves you changing over in between the two. So I would change you question around.. Any experienced climber would like that. Go up, take of jumar and descend. I see no downside. Except for the fact that there are other descenders that operate smoother on the rope. And with a TAZL3 as a chest ascender, you do not need a secundary point above your chest ascender. You could go up hand over hand with a foot and knee ascender. Really efficient and quick. Oh.. I define efficient here as save(no change over), quick, and less energy loss because of sitback.
We talked about the chest roller but it wasnt at the location, so it wasnt covered. YYESMAAM did use them on their 100 freehanging ascent in China in december 2022. I have never used a proper one, just something homemade that didnt work as good as a I would like.. But, it is definitely the way to go for big ascents!!
In my mind, mountaineering is the source. Only there, ascending a rope was very rare in those days. To my understading... But in caving they evolved the techniques with ascending in ropes and working in a really rough on gear environment. That has more similarities to rope access than mountaineering..
Haha, and your last statement is both very correct and incorrect. In a professional working environment, there are dozens of rules and regulations we have to adhere to.Those give us our principles. Our creativity is what can get us to original methods. But still, the team needs to understand them. There are certain industries where there is a LOT more freedom to move around...
That is so cool
Thanks!! It can feel very efficient😃😃
As long as you have your ASAP on and the Taz attached on your second line, you can ascend the rope fine. Unless your employer has more rules for you to follow. I see no rules in SPRAT or IRATA that say you can't use a knee ascender, as long as you have the Taz or ID on and your backup. Jim H.
You hit the nail on the head there Jim. Company or competition rules. Saskia and me were talking about a competition she recently did. They were planning on doing exactly that. Foot and Knee ascenders and a Taz3. But the competition had to see a changeover, so it did not make sense to use it there.
95% of the time we use company gear as well. They provide your basic kit. I'd/ASAP and harness with integrated chest ascender. And in that combo when ascending, you do need a point above the chest ascender.
I've only seen a Taz at a worksite when someone used their own. Which for me was no problem but other team members were not familiar with the device, so he could still not use it. (What in case of an emergency)
@@TheRopeAccessChannel I understand what you are saying perfectly. Thank you for getting back to me. I train all my people on how the Taz works, like you said, if a rescue were needed, then everybody has to know the gear. That being said, anyone who is serious about having a solid rescue plan in place, should be familiar with the gear that is out there, because you might have to figure it out real quick when you need to help a person who is stuck Jim H.
@@aerialrescuesolutions3277 I like your way of thinking. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
what about a knee ascender like we use in the arborist world for rope walkning
Perfectly fine method. I used one in the past when I worked as an arborist. But like we say in the video, when we use a chest ascender rope access, we need a secondary point (jumar on a cowstail) when we are in motion. So in that case a knee ascender doesn't really add that much. We would still need that second point. Unless we would use a TazLOV for instance. Then it would be a great setup.
great tutorial 🤙
Thank you 🙏🏻
What was the backup device again?
Petzl ASAP I think. Havnt watched this video since publishing so I dont rememebter. probably because it is the most used backup device
I can't understand: how hand ascender can be useful if the hand are above the ascender?
One hand is on the hand ascender. The other above. Or in Saskia's setup she explains about the elastic that drags the hand ascender up. The hand ascender clamps down on the rope automatically, not hands needed.
Does that make it clearer for you?
It's nice to climb
Yes it is
is it still consider a point of contact if we don't have/ use a cow tail with the hand/ other another ascender?
That would depend on the industry you are working in. I see arborists do it all the time without. In the industrial rope access world a chest ascender is considered a full point in a static load. When in motion we need an extra poa above with cowstail or similar.
Quite interesting to hear - I heard a site supervisor once teach that a chest ascender was a half point.
Then on the last 2 irata courses I've been through, it's been taught as just an old school thought.
@@AWD295 when static, not in motion, suspended in the croll it is a full point of contact. You do not need a second point. But when ascending you do need a point above. In some harnesses it has happened that the maillon prevented the teeth of the croll to grab. Meaning the tech slides down the rope until either the teeth catch or he reaches the end of the cowstail attached to the jumar.
I would consider it as best practice. Added bonus is you can’t drop it or forget it on the rope when descending 😉👊🏼
@@TheRopeAccessChannel yeah I understand what you meant, that's how the question was asked and still same the answer from instructors.
@@AWD295 I agree that calling it half a point is old fashioned. That’s how learned 😂😂. I usually don’t bother pushing my point through. If they want something that does not make it unsafe I explain my point of view once and then accept.
Robe Access all level 1vedio uptate sir.and level 1 basic accessment vedio uptate sir.
Well…. All the L1 video’s are up in their own playlist. You can look up each exercise
Saskia had everything to climb up, but what device did she use to come down?
this also means that once above she has to put a descending device on the climbing rope!
I’m not sure. It was a while back. Probably a Rig. So yes, she had to changeover.
Changing over to a descender after ascending is a basic skill within rope access👍🏼
@@TheRopeAccessChannel the Rig would also be my first choice given my military background, I did rope descents with my dog K9 on my back!
@@pfv3462 epic!! Must be a great relationship to build with a K9👍🏼
@@TheRopeAccessChannel Yes he was my faithful companion for 11 years, he was a small but very brave malinois ;-)
My descending device was the PETZL eight, and we have a special harness for the dog!
@@pfv3462 beautiful 👍🏼👍🏼
Nice Ropeacces
👍🏼👍🏼
Are you using a foot ascender ?
Did you watch the video? We explain literally that. I don’t want to come over short or maybe I don’t understand your question.
Definitely not shooting any deer with all that noise on the way up. I am interested in the climbing technique to get into the tree faster.
If you reorganize your gear you can be quieter. I assume you use one rope te get up? No backup rope? Use a TazLov3 and knee ascender instead of a chest and hand ascender. All you might need extra on the harness is a positioning lanyard to go up.
"... just women ... " Made me laugh. The real power of the universe. Like saying "we're just lightning."
👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
Long video lots of talk. Where is the exact setup tip? Not att 2:30.
Seriously? it is not even 10 minutes haha. Have you tried checking the chapters? Maybe look for the one about the rope walker technique and the one after that. What else would you like to know?
@@TheRopeAccessChannel Sorry! You are right, watched again and found what i came for at 6:10 -> 6:50. These 40 seconds are great!
@@adrenatec 🙏🏻🙏🏻
To be fair, non-locking foot ascenders are definitely NOT a point of contact.
To be fair, a locking foot ascender is definitely NOT a point of contact. Who said that a foot ascender locking or non-locking can be a POA?
@@TheRopeAccessChannel 7:22 All I'm saying is: everyone's had their rope kick out of a foot ascender.
Even if locking models are better... I can sympathize with OSHA on that.
Aha, that is what Saskia said right?
Arborist often use different devices than a croll and don’t need a secondary device above that. Which makes sense. I can’t say anything about OSHA. I don’t know their exact stance on these things.
Not the most effective way.
Thank you for that insightful comment. I am glad we can all learn from that… Or maybe share your knowledge. By the way no one in this video is claiming that it is the most effective way. Just a way to use gear so that it meets and stays within certain industry standards and/or competition rules. As explained in the video….
I feel stupider for having watched this.
In the future I’ll be making a more elaborate video on the various rope walking systems. Maybe that will make it clearer for you. Keep practicing and if you have questions, you can ask here or email out Instagram DM