If you use another carabiner for your makeshift knee assender, you can clip it into the main carabiner. Then when you arrive at the height you can unclip it without unclipping life support.
Great! I’m climbing 120 ft dead Ash and am so ready to try foot and knee ascender with my Chicane and Zigzag plus! This video is heaven sent! Thanks Zack-
I just picked up the Saka foldable yesterday, along with a rope wrench and a tree motion pro, and some accessories. Can't wait to get this harness together and give it a go 😊
Been watching you for a while but only just seen this. I like it as I’m cheap and don’t like spending money on stuff that isn’t exactly necessary. Lots of tree men are like magpies and love shiny things, I like things that work and don’t need much extra money. I got loads of bits of rope can’t wait to try this. Thanks again from the UK
That's awesome! I've never heard the magpie reference before 😂 that's so true. I also really like to just keep things simple. A knee ascender isn't difficult to put on, but I think this little set up is easier, faster, and lighter once you get it set up
I knew this long long ago like around 2000s . I learned almost this exact set up from an coolest Japanese guy. I called him " Krazy climber "😂 he was using sling as chest harness . Even tho, i knew this set ups, i bought myself a knee ascender just to help this industry tho . 😂 Great Video !🎉
While I do plan on switching to a rope-walking setup, an instructor once told me that any kind of lanyard/rope around your neck is considered a strangling risk and as such a big no-no. Maybe I'll find an option to get that done by attaching something on my suspenders. Thanks for the inspiration!
@@zaccheus he specified that anything loose is dangerous (which doesn't apply to chin straps). Plus chin straps are designed to break under a load of 15-25 kg (EN 397) in order to prevent exactly that.
@clage929 that's fair, I believe chin straps are supposed to be loose to some extent, but it's been a long time since I studied the literature on that. There are a good number of differences between European and American standards. For example you guys have to climb with two lines, and we are still allowed one. Participating in the tree care industry requires a lot of risk management. As of now I'm not aware of any ANSI standards that prohibit neck lanyards, though they might exist. Beyond standards, I'm willing to accept the extra risk for the convenience of this system. It's not for everyone and I respect that. It just works really well for me.
@@zaccheus the basic idea is good nevertheless. It should be possible to achieve the same effect by attaching something elastic to the rings on the suspenders of my harnass. Thanks for your input!
I have watched many of your other videos to figure out how you were doing this. Thanks now for this specific video. I'm a relatively new climber and for some reason i don't want to deal with a knee ascender. I mounted a Kiwi foot ascender to my Klein spur and now I need to try this method with my Rope Runner Pro. I need spurs and rope ascent to keep working/practicing on my giant pecan tree. Lots of trips up and down. '
For sure man! I've tried it on my singing tree rope runner and it works, but the rope runner have a little more set back and they make it a little less efficient. Still way better than just one legging it up though.
@@zaccheus That sounds not-so-good for me! I have tried my Rope Runner Pro just a bit and the amount of set back made me not want to use it with just one foot ascender (just sit/stand). I may be forced to run a knee ascender. I was hoping an improved Unicender would come out so I could try that. Before gear I'm 230# and so the RR Pro set back is very noticeable. I may tweak on the RR Pro a bit to see if I can make it better. I did get a foot ascender (Kiwi) bolted to my Klein spurs - I need to get out and try that ASAP.
@BoomUp Engineering you might also want to check out the new stein device thay supposed to come out before too long. It's been put together and tesed by Reg Coats. Based on his commentary, it sounds like a cool device.
@@zaccheus Good tip - hopefully Stein can release something soon. Looks like they had to make changes to deal better with wet ropes? I'll try to be patient and stick it out with my Rope Runner Pro for now.
I guess if you girth hitch the foot “lanyard” around the carabiner you could remove it without undoing the carabiner ? Just a thought. Like your take on rope walking, you make it look easy. 🎉
Thanks man! That's a great idea. I have found that even an inch different in length can. Thow the whole thing off. So as long as you could tie that hitch consistently, it would sort fine. I've recently just started using a mini carabiner.
carabiner to rig on your swivel. i like it. been climbing 35 years used it all prefer DRT and foot lock. less crap to deal with but am going to try that next SRT climb good stuff. be safe.
Thanks, man! Good luck with your venture into SRT. I have found that you dint need nearly as much gear as everyone on the the internet wants to tell you you need. A foot ascender alone will get you most anywhere.
Finally convinced myself to try an akimbo and SRT after watching your stuff. Only done tiny stuff with moving rope and mewp jobs since but it'll get its day. I grabbed the adjustable petzl foot tape thinking i could use it for this instead having a knee ascender that will probably disappear from my harness mid climb never to be seen again (like my first foot ascender RIP)
this is exactly what i do, i just use a sling and girth hitch it to my bridge ring when i want to use it works great and saves you wasting money on a gadget you really dont need
ive looked everywhere for another video of someone climbing like this but i cant find them anywhere. every one i find they either use a knee ascender or just use a foot ascender and have their other leg sticking out in weird position . i would think there is a happy medium between having the foot lanyard just for support to stay in a standing position rather than not using one and having to dangle your foot with just a foot ascender or to keep you from having to constantly sit back into the harness. even if you dont have the climbing system tending up with a bungee i feel like the foot loop should be a healthy and cheaper alternative to the knee ascender. anyways i love how you explained everything only wish you would of filmed a few other angles so i could tell whats going on but i finally understand what is going on after watching several times. thanks for the tip. going to try it out with a notch fusion rope wrench. ill let you know what i think after i try out a few different options.
Thanks for the feed back. I've been meaning to make an update video on this system. I've made some small improvements and made it easier and more efficient. Maybe ever a little safer too.
This caveman’s answer to the knee ascender has been learning how to footlock on a rope wrench….no regrets-a handy skill. I’m feeling more optimistic about trying a foot ascender now, thank you!
No problem man! I've always wondered if it would work on the rope wrench and a prusik. I'm afraid there would be a lot of upward drag with the prusik, but maybe not!
Excellent thought. This system does utilize the slack in the rope bridge as the device moves uo and down relative ti the body. At some point, it would be possible to make the rope bridge too short, but I imagine it could be shorter than I had it in this video
Cool setup. I often (out of laziness) climb with just the foot ascender, so kinda one-foot-it. In your rig are you actually moving yourself up the rope with that left foot loop, or is all actual mass-lift happening with that right leg? I can't quite tell. Good stuff man
since he's tied into the zig zag directly to his bridge I think he's lifting with his knee ascender, holding with the ZZ ascender, then advancing automatically up as he ascends again with the neck tether. If you stand up in that zz I don't think you can lift more than the length of your bridge.
Fair question, if you don't get the length of things tuned just right, it easily turns into just lifting with your foot ascender, but if you do get everything on point, each step will lift you the same. Some devices are a little tougher than others. My rope runner had just enough set back thay it takes an inch or two out of each step and that's a less efficient experience.
@Jack Berdine I can imagine you'd have thay problem if you had a really short bridge. I've never had an issue and I think I run a fairly standard length bridge. You could move the whole assembly down and use more of the bridge throw if you were to lengthen the elastic and shorten the foot lanyard.
Thats awesome buuttt...i like having the knee ascender as a secondary device to stop my fall early if the spring decidec to not work in my ascender as I've had happen to me with rope runner pro...
Do you have a link to the video where you show your setup with the Akimbo? I tend to spur climb 80% of the time but the 20% when I SRT I can never find a good way to tend to the Akimbo. Would be very curious as to how you have yours set up! Great video, very insightful.
I hear that, I'd say with this set up ans a foot ascender on my spurs, I am probably closer to 50/50... I don't recall which video it was exactly, but I am going to try to film a follow up video here soon with the akimbo
Looks like a cool way to still get the ropewalker effect without all the additional gear! To cut further down on the carabiners could you girth hitch the footloop to your main Zigzag attachment carabiner? Does this work with a chest harness at the tending piece instead or do you really need that bungee action to get it to work?
Thanks man, it can definitely be done more minimally with a girth hitch as you mentioned. I've started using a foot lanyard with a carabiner to speed up putting it on and taking it off. It all depends on what your priorities are. It does need to be tended with elastic be mcaise the device moves relative to your body. I'd like to figure out a way to make it work with suspenders 🤔
That's great idea..how come you don't tie a biner on the foot loop thing so you don't have to untie??just asking seems it might be better but maybe it interfere s with the stability?
Hey iv Ben rope walking this way forever lol I thought I was the only one . I remember when I was just starting off on srt an didn’t want buy anything so came up with this idea I’m glad I’m not the only one lol
@@zaccheus it’s funny cause it’s so simple that when I first thought of it I was thinking to myself there gotta be a reason ppl are not doin this . I’m think it gotta not work lol iit goes to show don’t get sucked into the gear world they are companies trying to make money. It’s funny cause I stayed away from mechanical hitch’s for awhile cause i just didn’t think they be as good as are and I’m cheap lol
@magnusnytomt6354 I'm not sure exactly how long it is. If you make one for yourself you have to get the length just right for yourself. Even a couple inches will make a big difference. It might even be a good idea to start out my making an adjustable one to see what length fits you the best.
Just tried this setup and it’s working pretty good, but it seems like you’re only ascending with your foot ascender because the foot loop is actually pushing the zigzag down. With a knee ascender instead the system would move up when you took a step with your left foot, is that correct? I’m slowly moving from DRT to SRT so I’m just trying to get some more knowledge. Thanks for the video
If you get it tuned just right, the step on the zigzag will also be a step up. It mostly comes down to how far you can get the zigzag to move up the rope between steps. Try shortening your foot lanyard maybe.
Have questions for injured old man..wich side right or left has the mos t strain on your knees the side with footascender..or the side with the peice of rope or sling.wanting to try this ..also your side without the foot ascender seems longer so i assume it needs to be longer ..and my other question was can you just hook the rope and biner to the second hole on zigzag so theres no un hooking the life support lower biner ..please and thank you?
@Sethhaun78 Ooo I hadn't thought about hooking it there. That might work, but you might also loose some efficiency because I imagine it will want to rock back and for every step resulting in a little set back in every step. The sling that attaches your foot to your climbing system shpuodnt stain your knee as all because hooking it into the loop on a climbing boot or using a foot loop will apply the force tk the center of your foot. The foot ascender will put some side force on your knee becaise it's in the side. I have found that using the foot ascender that mounted to my spikes is much more comfortable than a regular foot ascender. I typically put the foot ascender on my right leg, but you can do it either way if you have a knee that hurts more than the other. Does that answer everything?
Correct me if I am wrong, when you step on with your left foot, it seems to me that your body does not ascend as you see when you step on your right foot. ( @ 3:33 minute mark )
Stepping on the zigzag is not as efficient as stepping on an ascender because the zigzag has more sit back when it grabs the rope. Different devices do it differently. I've found the akimbo to work the best. Here is a video of it on the rope runner which is a little better depending on how it's adjusted. th-cam.com/video/jCnEqYLKdVk/w-d-xo.html
Good idea but technically your “knee ascender” is just a knee stop so your advancement is just from the foot ascender. An actual knee ascender will ascend left and right. Still a great idea for advancing though
I know what you are saying, but there is advancement from both legs. The leg that's tethered to the climbing device isn't quite as efficient because the device has a little more set back than an ascender does. Bot it does still effective lift my body relative to the rope.
I don't understand your needinging to stow away the knee ascender. I climb super dynamic with a hass velox clip version and it's never a problem. Try the arb pro Andrew boots with your jet step. And get a velox.
Mmm that sounds like it might be a connect problem or something. I have another video on it if this video won't work for you. th-cam.com/video/jCnEqYLKdVk/w-d-xo.html
I'm not familiar with that device, but I don't believe so. For this to work well, the rope needs to have a straight path through the device. If you wanted to do with with something cheaper, I think your best bet would be a prusik and rope wrench or something like that.
Is that rope a blue moon? Does the foot ascender damage that rope at all? Working on getting a srs kit together, was going to try my cmi foot ascender on my blue moon but I’ve read that it’s recommended to use a kernmantle rope
@Harriet_Tubgirl hmm, I've never heard that before. If anything, I'd think kernmantle would be more susceptible to foot ascender damage because the sheath is less structural and the core if the rope has straight strands so all the load would go into the sheath. I've never had any issues with a tooth or non toothed ascender on bluemoon.
How do you think this would work with hitch based devices? Too much drag? I haven't bought into a SRS device yet, leaning towards a rope wrench because it's less expensive to start and I already have a triple attachment pulley. I was thinking that the foot lanyard could be attached to the bottom becket and my hitch be attached to the middle becket. That way there's not the issue with unclipping the foot lanyard.
You can, but shouldn't use a rope wrench with the zigzag. You assume all liability for failure of the device if you do. The zigzag/chicane is the most expensive srt setup I know of. I prefer the akimbo myself, but a rope wrench and prusik is probably the most economical. The rope is Yale Blue Moon 11.7mm it's not my favorite rope, but it does both srt and drt pretty well.
@vkarabin I've been enjoying xstatic alot recently. It holds its round pretty well and is nicely static at low loads (body weight). It's more expensive, but I've been happy with it. It doesn't have good hand so you have to be careful with your knots. I would not recommend it for a Blake's hitch system or DRT in general.
great stuff i have stopped rope walking because it is too fast, as i charge heavy price for tree service people expect me to spend more time on job site😅
@Luc Fournier Fair thought, I would anticipate that it would be important to inspect it before every climb just like all of your other gear. Can't really afford for any of it to fail 😬😅
That's a fair practice. It's an acceptable thing to do when tied in with a lanyard. It can be necessary to switch ropes and such when in the tree. If you'd prefer not to, another carabiner would would, but you're tenchinically not allowed to hook two carabiners together.
Haha, I'm not even sure I can remember it all 😅 Right now I use the following: TreeRex harness by Edelrid Foot ascender Rock Exotica Akimbo Homemade neck tether as seen in this video Pfanner protos helmet Arborwear chainsaw pants Kong hand ascender Edelrid talon spikes and tree cruiser ascender (for tree removals only) Rock exotica transporters Shembiner Various loop slings Rock- O carabiners by rock exotica are my favorite beciase they slide down to open Arbpro Evo 2 climbing boots Dyna glide throwline Weaver 12oz throw weights Homemade air cannon Silky sugoi hand saw Xstatic climbing rope Homemade flipline with hitch cord and hitch climber pulley for a lanyard I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but that's the most of what I use to get up in a tree
That’s my setup when I was a beginner and my every senior climbers stop me to doing this for safety, because it’s using my belay device(vt+rope wrench) as knee ascender😂😂
I'm probably not qualified to offer any real advice as I've only ever owned and used my Kong hand ascender. If you're looking for ascent systems that use a hand ascenders, the only one I know of is the "The Rad System." I'm not sure it's any more cost effective though. I have seen guys just use a single hand ascender, foot ascender and chest harness (to tend the climbing device) and just kinda inch worm their way up. It's pretty fast, but you definitely have to be pretty fit 😅
@@zaccheus thanks for gettin back to me 🙏 really appreciate you and your channel, content, and time you put into it for us fellow climbers… Yeah the rad system is all I’ve been able to find any info on but I will prolly look into that combo as well cause hip thrusting has been a nightmare
@christiangrimm7607 Haha anything is better than hip thrusting. Maybe I'll make a video sometime this winter about the different ascent methods that I'm aware of. I'm sire I haven't seen them all, but I can probably put a couple ideas into one, central video
That would work well. I've also found that the XSRE mini carabiners work really well too. They work great for both ends of the foot lanyard and on the neck lanyard too. I just didn't have them when I filmed this video
@@zaccheus oh ok thanks, if you just use the zigzag plus with a foot and knee ascender will that still work instead of just using upper body strength ? When I start climbing I don’t want to gas myself out on the job site and I was looking at the zigzag plus
@jjhoffy you'll always have to use some upper body effort to keep yourself upright, but your legs can do most of the lifting. Its definitely a skill amd the more you do it, the more effecient you can be with it. The fellas that race have it really figured out. The zigzag always needs to have the chicane for use on am srt system. You may see folks using it without, but that is incorrect and if they were ever to hurt themselves up in the tree, they wouldn't be able to get down because the zigzag can't properly support a person in descent without the added friction of the chicane.
@jjhoffy Yeah! It's absolutely approved for use without the chicane in a DRT configuration. It's only approved for use in an SRT configuration with the chicane. I really like the zigzag for DRT when I'm working with a crane. I really like the akimbo for every day climbing for trims or removals.
@@zaccheus I tried your setup yesterday with mixed results. I will need a stronger bungee to make it work. I used a Unicender which has virtually zero setback, but I was getting drag from the rope being flattened from the Rope Runner Pro, I think. It would work great for a few steps and then hang up and not tend well. I'll try again with a different rope later. I like the idea of only needing a sling and foot loop versus the entire knee ascender setup. When it worked, it worked just as well as the knee ascender.
@Kevin. L thays fantastic! I'm glad to hear you were having success. I also struggled with that same problem and I noticed it changed a little bit from rope to rope. Xstatic seems to work good for me and I have mixed the use of my Akimbo and rope runner on it. I think I had the trouble you mentioned on Yale confetti which is very similar to blue moon
@Kevin. L It's a nice rope. I have some, too. I think you can have rope with good hand, or you can have rope that resists flattening. I don't think you can have both 😅
Excellent question! I typically use a throwball and light weight string (I use dynaglide myself) and I throw it up over a limb or use an air cannon that I made. Once the string is over a strong union in the tree, I use it to pull the rope up and over. Then I tie one end of the rope to the bottom of the tree and I can climb in the other end. Here is a link to a video about the air cannon I made. th-cam.com/video/uSIoHMxP4yk/w-d-xo.html
It's not as efficient as a knee asdender to my disappointment, I have played with it a bunch since making this video and gotten it to be better. Kinda gave to get the elastic juuuust right.
If you use another carabiner for your makeshift knee assender, you can clip it into the main carabiner. Then when you arrive at the height you can unclip it without unclipping life support.
Yeah for sure! Since making this video I've started using the XSRE carabiners from DMM on both sides of the foot lanyard and it works mighty well.
That bowline is definitely an easy knot.
Enjoyed the video. Neat set up. I don't care for knee ascenders and prefer a method similar to yours. Thanks for posting.
Glad to hear it! I bought and tried one once and I've grown to like this better for sure.
Great demo on your walking system. You are a great teacher and make everything look easy and easily understood. Thanks and blessings to you.
Thabks Bill, thats mighty kind of you to say!
Great! I’m climbing 120 ft dead Ash and am so ready to try foot and knee ascender with my Chicane and Zigzag plus! This video is heaven sent! Thanks Zack-
I just picked up the Saka foldable yesterday, along with a rope wrench and a tree motion pro, and some accessories. Can't wait to get this harness together and give it a go 😊
That sounds like a sweet bit of kit!
Been watching you for a while but only just seen this. I like it as I’m cheap and don’t like spending money on stuff that isn’t exactly necessary. Lots of tree men are like magpies and love shiny things, I like things that work and don’t need much extra money. I got loads of bits of rope can’t wait to try this. Thanks again from the UK
That's awesome! I've never heard the magpie reference before 😂 that's so true. I also really like to just keep things simple. A knee ascender isn't difficult to put on, but I think this little set up is easier, faster, and lighter once you get it set up
I knew this long long ago like around 2000s . I learned almost this exact set up from an coolest Japanese guy. I called him " Krazy climber "😂 he was using sling as chest harness . Even tho, i knew this set ups, i bought myself a knee ascender just to help this industry tho . 😂 Great Video !🎉
Great video! I had to shorten my bridge for the ZigZag. Thank you. Have a blessed week.
No problem Geoffrey! I'm interested in why you needed to shorten your bridge. Was it because of the length of the zigzag?
While I do plan on switching to a rope-walking setup, an instructor once told me that any kind of lanyard/rope around your neck is considered a strangling risk and as such a big no-no. Maybe I'll find an option to get that done by attaching something on my suspenders. Thanks for the inspiration!
Fair point. There are lots of risks in tree work. What was that instructors take on helmet chin straps?
@@zaccheus he specified that anything loose is dangerous (which doesn't apply to chin straps). Plus chin straps are designed to break under a load of 15-25 kg (EN 397) in order to prevent exactly that.
@clage929 that's fair, I believe chin straps are supposed to be loose to some extent, but it's been a long time since I studied the literature on that. There are a good number of differences between European and American standards. For example you guys have to climb with two lines, and we are still allowed one. Participating in the tree care industry requires a lot of risk management. As of now I'm not aware of any ANSI standards that prohibit neck lanyards, though they might exist. Beyond standards, I'm willing to accept the extra risk for the convenience of this system. It's not for everyone and I respect that. It just works really well for me.
@@zaccheus the basic idea is good nevertheless. It should be possible to achieve the same effect by attaching something elastic to the rings on the suspenders of my harnass. Thanks for your input!
@@clage929 👍
Awesome demo! Thats my exact SRT setup, same rope too 😅 I ended up buying a knee ascender just to try it out.
It was a pretty smooth set up! I have one too, but it mostly sits on the shelf 😂 it's only been out once or twice.
I have watched many of your other videos to figure out how you were doing this. Thanks now for this specific video. I'm a relatively new climber and for some reason i don't want to deal with a knee ascender. I mounted a Kiwi foot ascender to my Klein spur and now I need to try this method with my Rope Runner Pro. I need spurs and rope ascent to keep working/practicing on my giant pecan tree. Lots of trips up and down.
'
For sure man! I've tried it on my singing tree rope runner and it works, but the rope runner have a little more set back and they make it a little less efficient. Still way better than just one legging it up though.
@@zaccheus That sounds not-so-good for me! I have tried my Rope Runner Pro just a bit and the amount of set back made me not want to use it with just one foot ascender (just sit/stand). I may be forced to run a knee ascender. I was hoping an improved Unicender would come out so I could try that. Before gear I'm 230# and so the RR Pro set back is very noticeable. I may tweak on the RR Pro a bit to see if I can make it better. I did get a foot ascender (Kiwi) bolted to my Klein spurs - I need to get out and try that ASAP.
@BoomUp Engineering you might also want to check out the new stein device thay supposed to come out before too long. It's been put together and tesed by Reg Coats. Based on his commentary, it sounds like a cool device.
@@zaccheus Good tip - hopefully Stein can release something soon. Looks like they had to make changes to deal better with wet ropes? I'll try to be patient and stick it out with my Rope Runner Pro for now.
@@schwartztekllc Probably the thing to do 😅
Yeah that’s a good alternative for sure, I love that blue moon rope your using
Thanks man! I've heard a lot of people really like it. It's not my favorite, but it's my go-to second rope.
Sweet video. I enjoyed this from Burlington, Vermont. Keep em coming!
Thanks Judson!
Nice video Zach, stay safe !
Thanks Dave!
will definitely try this out
Thanks for the lesson! Stay safe!
Thanks Jeremy!
i've been climbing for a long time and just recently used the zig zag with the chicane and everything worked so smooth - it was the cat's pajamas
Haha glad to hear it! I think this was my first time on this set up 🤔 it was super smooth as I recall
I guess if you girth hitch the foot “lanyard” around the carabiner you could remove it without undoing the carabiner ? Just a thought. Like your take on rope walking, you make it look easy. 🎉
Thanks man! That's a great idea. I have found that even an inch different in length can. Thow the whole thing off. So as long as you could tie that hitch consistently, it would sort fine. I've recently just started using a mini carabiner.
Very innovative! Thanks for sharing.
Great!!!...looks works fine , like if use it the knee ascender , I will try it like that , thank you for shearing the idea.
No problem, hope it works well for you!
Great approach! I'm going to try.
carabiner to rig on your swivel. i like it. been climbing 35 years used it all prefer DRT and foot lock. less crap to deal with but am going to try that next SRT climb good stuff. be safe.
Thanks, man! Good luck with your venture into SRT. I have found that you dint need nearly as much gear as everyone on the the internet wants to tell you you need. A foot ascender alone will get you most anywhere.
Great video. You make it look so easy.
Thanks!
I love this kinda stuff. Good find🤙
Finally convinced myself to try an akimbo and SRT after watching your stuff. Only done tiny stuff with moving rope and mewp jobs since but it'll get its day.
I grabbed the adjustable petzl foot tape thinking i could use it for this instead having a knee ascender that will probably disappear from my harness mid climb never to be seen again (like my first foot ascender RIP)
Oh glad to hear it! I think I have a friend who has the petzl device you mentioned. He likes it a lot.
this is exactly what i do, i just use a sling and girth hitch it to my bridge ring when i want to use it
works great and saves you wasting money on a gadget you really dont need
plus a knee ascender can get in the way later in the climb
Absolutely!
Brilliant. Well done!
Thank you!
Nice information very useful ideas and technique
Nice one. Got to try this!
Really smart option, thank you.
ive looked everywhere for another video of someone climbing like this but i cant find them anywhere. every one i find they either use a knee ascender or just use a foot ascender and have their other leg sticking out in weird position . i would think there is a happy medium between having the foot lanyard just for support to stay in a standing position rather than not using one and having to dangle your foot with just a foot ascender or to keep you from having to constantly sit back into the harness. even if you dont have the climbing system tending up with a bungee i feel like the foot loop should be a healthy and cheaper alternative to the knee ascender.
anyways i love how you explained everything only wish you would of filmed a few other angles so i could tell whats going on but i finally understand what is going on after watching several times. thanks for the tip. going to try it out with a notch fusion rope wrench. ill let you know what i think after i try out a few different options.
Thanks for the feed back. I've been meaning to make an update video on this system. I've made some small improvements and made it easier and more efficient. Maybe ever a little safer too.
@lukeharrington904 have you gotten it to work with the fusion teather..if so how ?
How did this work with your rope wrench?
Good idea I have to try that
Really good bro Samar way to do it
is there a way you could do this with all ropes/no mechanical? Like tended prusiks? Brilliant idea, thanks for sharing.
I haven't tried it, but you might be able to make it work if you were able to get the prusiks to move upward with very little drag or resistance.
Interesting technique
Thanks
This caveman’s answer to the knee ascender has been learning how to footlock on a rope wrench….no regrets-a handy skill. I’m feeling more optimistic about trying a foot ascender now, thank you!
No problem man! I've always wondered if it would work on the rope wrench and a prusik. I'm afraid there would be a lot of upward drag with the prusik, but maybe not!
A shortened up, adjustable rope bridge would alleviate the Chicane from being high up the rope, and keep it from being so close to your hand.
Excellent thought. This system does utilize the slack in the rope bridge as the device moves uo and down relative ti the body. At some point, it would be possible to make the rope bridge too short, but I imagine it could be shorter than I had it in this video
Cool setup. I often (out of laziness) climb with just the foot ascender, so kinda one-foot-it. In your rig are you actually moving yourself up the rope with that left foot loop, or is all actual mass-lift happening with that right leg? I can't quite tell. Good stuff man
since he's tied into the zig zag directly to his bridge I think he's lifting with his knee ascender, holding with the ZZ ascender, then advancing automatically up as he ascends again with the neck tether. If you stand up in that zz I don't think you can lift more than the length of your bridge.
Fair question, if you don't get the length of things tuned just right, it easily turns into just lifting with your foot ascender, but if you do get everything on point, each step will lift you the same. Some devices are a little tougher than others. My rope runner had just enough set back thay it takes an inch or two out of each step and that's a less efficient experience.
@Jack Berdine I can imagine you'd have thay problem if you had a really short bridge. I've never had an issue and I think I run a fairly standard length bridge. You could move the whole assembly down and use more of the bridge throw if you were to lengthen the elastic and shorten the foot lanyard.
@@jackberdine gotcha ... makes sense that the neck tether advances the device. nice
Thank you sir. I run a zigzag and ive been doing alot more srt work
It's probably the smoothest thing I've ever climbed on. As long as you don't have an issue with side loading it, it should give you a good experience!
this whole "Ghetto Knee Ascender" idea is a pretty neat one.
thank you and be safe.
o/
Haha thanks! 😂
gonna try this with my RRP. cheers buddy
It shouod work good. It works on my OG Rope Runner, there is just a little bit of extra set back
Love the video, thanks for sharing!
Glad to hear it!
Thank you, teacher! Great!!!
Awesome job brother
Thanks Todd 😁
Thanks Zaccheus
@@dennisclapp7527 welcome!
Thats awesome buuttt...i like having the knee ascender as a secondary device to stop my fall early if the spring decidec to not work in my ascender as I've had happen to me with rope runner pro...
That sounds like a solid reason to avoid using the RRP more than anything 😬 I've heard about lots of problems with that.
Now that is a good tip! Thanks!
You're welcome!
perfect, thanks for the video!
Excellent explanation and demonstration. Thank you! Will follow your advice.
great idea, will try it!
I am 6 months late to this video. Would the foot lanyard work with a rope wrench? No zigzag, just the rope wrench. Thanks for the video.
Ive never tried, but would definitely be worth a try. As long as the hitch and the wrench don't have too much upward drag, I think it would work!
Thank you Sir!!
Good! Maybe i'll try that with taz lov 3, it slide up very easely...who knows...// great video!! 💪
Do you have a link to the video where you show your setup with the Akimbo? I tend to spur climb 80% of the time but the 20% when I SRT I can never find a good way to tend to the Akimbo. Would be very curious as to how you have yours set up! Great video, very insightful.
I hear that, I'd say with this set up ans a foot ascender on my spurs, I am probably closer to 50/50... I don't recall which video it was exactly, but I am going to try to film a follow up video here soon with the akimbo
Looks like a cool way to still get the ropewalker effect without all the additional gear! To cut further down on the carabiners could you girth hitch the footloop to your main Zigzag attachment carabiner? Does this work with a chest harness at the tending piece instead or do you really need that bungee action to get it to work?
Thanks man, it can definitely be done more minimally with a girth hitch as you mentioned. I've started using a foot lanyard with a carabiner to speed up putting it on and taking it off. It all depends on what your priorities are.
It does need to be tended with elastic be mcaise the device moves relative to your body. I'd like to figure out a way to make it work with suspenders 🤔
Great idea, thanks
That's great idea..how come you don't tie a biner on the foot loop thing so you don't have to untie??just asking seems it might be better but maybe it interfere s with the stability?
I do not actually. I'll have an updated bit about it here before too long with carabiners
Really nice how you set that whole ascender up
Thanks Michael!
Hey iv Ben rope walking this way forever lol I thought I was the only one . I remember when I was just starting off on srt an didn’t want buy anything so came up with this idea I’m glad I’m not the only one lol
I'm glad to hear that! Thays the same thing that lead me to figure it out 😂 it's so simple I imagined I wasn't the only one doing it.
@@zaccheus it’s funny cause it’s so simple that when I first thought of it I was thinking to myself there gotta be a reason ppl are not doin this . I’m think it gotta not work lol iit goes to show don’t get sucked into the gear world they are companies trying to make money. It’s funny cause I stayed away from mechanical hitch’s for awhile cause i just didn’t think they be as good as are and I’m cheap lol
@@scotttam7491 haha, nothing wrong with that!
You are so awesome
@@tarsiswilliams3186 Thanks Tarsis!
Too back I learned about this after I bought a knee ascender!😢
Great idea
I like it. Super gear effeceint.
Thanks man, that's my favorite part about it.
Dang, very good!
Thanks!
How long is that footascender that you atteched to the zigzag compared to your leg? It seemes to be working really well
@magnusnytomt6354 I'm not sure exactly how long it is. If you make one for yourself you have to get the length just right for yourself. Even a couple inches will make a big difference. It might even be a good idea to start out my making an adjustable one to see what length fits you the best.
I'll try to find the lenght for me ☝️👍
Just tried this setup and it’s working pretty good, but it seems like you’re only ascending with your foot ascender because the foot loop is actually pushing the zigzag down. With a knee ascender instead the system would move up when you took a step with your left foot, is that correct? I’m slowly moving from DRT to SRT so I’m just trying to get some more knowledge. Thanks for the video
If you get it tuned just right, the step on the zigzag will also be a step up. It mostly comes down to how far you can get the zigzag to move up the rope between steps. Try shortening your foot lanyard maybe.
Okay, thank you
Have questions for injured old man..wich side right or left has the mos t strain on your knees the side with footascender..or the side with the peice of rope or sling.wanting to try this ..also your side without the foot ascender seems longer so i assume it needs to be longer ..and my other question was can you just hook the rope and biner to the second hole on zigzag so theres no un hooking the life support lower biner ..please and thank you?
@Sethhaun78 Ooo I hadn't thought about hooking it there. That might work, but you might also loose some efficiency because I imagine it will want to rock back and for every step resulting in a little set back in every step. The sling that attaches your foot to your climbing system shpuodnt stain your knee as all because hooking it into the loop on a climbing boot or using a foot loop will apply the force tk the center of your foot. The foot ascender will put some side force on your knee becaise it's in the side. I have found that using the foot ascender that mounted to my spikes is much more comfortable than a regular foot ascender. I typically put the foot ascender on my right leg, but you can do it either way if you have a knee that hurts more than the other. Does that answer everything?
@@zaccheus yes siro
Dumb question, would this work on a MRS system? 🇨🇦🇺🇸
Not dumb at all. It might work, but one foot would have mechanical advantage and the other wouldn't so it would feel kind weird
Thank you.
🤙
the ct knee ascender is amazing, try it
Mayne I'll just have to
Good stuff man
Thanks!
this is great
thank you
What do you use to get your climbing rope up onto a limb?
Correct me if I am wrong, when you step on with your left foot, it seems to me that your body does not ascend as you see when you step on your right foot. ( @ 3:33 minute mark )
Stepping on the zigzag is not as efficient as stepping on an ascender because the zigzag has more sit back when it grabs the rope. Different devices do it differently. I've found the akimbo to work the best. Here is a video of it on the rope runner which is a little better depending on how it's adjusted. th-cam.com/video/jCnEqYLKdVk/w-d-xo.html
@@zaccheusThanks.
Really dig it
Good idea but technically your “knee ascender” is just a knee stop so your advancement is just from the foot ascender. An actual knee ascender will ascend left and right. Still a great idea for advancing though
I know what you are saying, but there is advancement from both legs. The leg that's tethered to the climbing device isn't quite as efficient because the device has a little more set back than an ascender does. Bot it does still effective lift my body relative to the rope.
Got my sub on this one pal very smart I like it 😊
Thanks Lloyd!
I don't understand your needinging to stow away the knee ascender. I climb super dynamic with a hass velox clip version and it's never a problem. Try the arb pro Andrew boots with your jet step. And get a velox.
@fellowbrotherinwar I know some other folks who climb with the knee ascender on all day. By why bother if you don't need it?
What happened to video, audio only for some reason? Id love to see this
Mmm that sounds like it might be a connect problem or something. I have another video on it if this video won't work for you. th-cam.com/video/jCnEqYLKdVk/w-d-xo.html
Cand you use a madrock safeguard instead of zigzag. For saddle hunters, not tree abortionist?
I'm not familiar with that device, but I don't believe so. For this to work well, the rope needs to have a straight path through the device. If you wanted to do with with something cheaper, I think your best bet would be a prusik and rope wrench or something like that.
Ya don't just strap spikes around the oll cork boots? Or is this fer climbing other stuff as well?
I've never climbed with cork boots. In urban tree work there is often too many hard surfaces around to really walk around on corks.
Is that rope a blue moon? Does the foot ascender damage that rope at all? Working on getting a srs kit together, was going to try my cmi foot ascender on my blue moon but I’ve read that it’s recommended to use a kernmantle rope
@Harriet_Tubgirl hmm, I've never heard that before. If anything, I'd think kernmantle would be more susceptible to foot ascender damage because the sheath is less structural and the core if the rope has straight strands so all the load would go into the sheath. I've never had any issues with a tooth or non toothed ascender on bluemoon.
@@zaccheus awesome thanks man. Love your videos
@@Harriet_Tubgirl not a problem! Good luck with your setup!
How do you think this would work with hitch based devices? Too much drag? I haven't bought into a SRS device yet, leaning towards a rope wrench because it's less expensive to start and I already have a triple attachment pulley. I was thinking that the foot lanyard could be attached to the bottom becket and my hitch be attached to the middle becket. That way there's not the issue with unclipping the foot lanyard.
I imagine the drag would be the biggest challenge. The akimbo has a little drag and it still works fine 🤷♂️ it's certainly worth a try!
rope wrench is most versatile but zig zag with Akimbo is so smooth - harder to set up though
What type of rope and size are you using?..can you use a rope wrench instead of a Chican which is pretty expensive.. thanks
You can, but shouldn't use a rope wrench with the zigzag. You assume all liability for failure of the device if you do. The zigzag/chicane is the most expensive srt setup I know of. I prefer the akimbo myself, but a rope wrench and prusik is probably the most economical.
The rope is Yale Blue Moon 11.7mm it's not my favorite rope, but it does both srt and drt pretty well.
What’s your favorite rope and size?
@vkarabin I've been enjoying xstatic alot recently. It holds its round pretty well and is nicely static at low loads (body weight). It's more expensive, but I've been happy with it. It doesn't have good hand so you have to be careful with your knots. I would not recommend it for a Blake's hitch system or DRT in general.
good morning from ontario canada
👋 hi there! Hope you are starting to see signs of spring up that way!
@@zaccheus seen 6 robins in back yard yesterday
@@jacksprat3287 thats great news!
great stuff i have stopped rope walking because it is too fast, as i charge heavy price for tree service people expect me to spend more time on job site😅
Hahahahaa, thats what I've been doing wrong!
if i have to srt up a tree i use stiff neck lanyards as you can get Hurt if rubberband breaks (teeths ..eyes..)
@Luc Fournier Fair thought, I would anticipate that it would be important to inspect it before every climb just like all of your other gear. Can't really afford for any of it to fail 😬😅
I love my knee accender. They have a nice one at endors. I can't rmember the name of mine it's great
I'm glad to hear it! I'm sire they do. I think the knee ascender I have is made by stein. It works, I just don't love it
I don’t undo my bridge carabiner once I’m clipped in. Do you use a separate carabiner on the foot ascender ?
That's a fair practice. It's an acceptable thing to do when tied in with a lanyard. It can be necessary to switch ropes and such when in the tree. If you'd prefer not to, another carabiner would would, but you're tenchinically not allowed to hook two carabiners together.
Can you list all of the equipment you use .. thanks..
Haha, I'm not even sure I can remember it all 😅
Right now I use the following: TreeRex harness by Edelrid
Foot ascender
Rock Exotica Akimbo
Homemade neck tether as seen in this video
Pfanner protos helmet
Arborwear chainsaw pants
Kong hand ascender
Edelrid talon spikes and tree cruiser ascender (for tree removals only)
Rock exotica transporters
Shembiner
Various loop slings
Rock- O carabiners by rock exotica are my favorite beciase they slide down to open
Arbpro Evo 2 climbing boots
Dyna glide throwline
Weaver 12oz throw weights
Homemade air cannon
Silky sugoi hand saw
Xstatic climbing rope
Homemade flipline with hitch cord and hitch climber pulley for a lanyard
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but that's the most of what I use to get up in a tree
That’s my setup when I was a beginner and my every senior climbers stop me to doing this for safety, because it’s using my belay device(vt+rope wrench) as knee ascender😂😂
Ah they probably stopped you because they were jealous of you genius. I can't see any safety issues with the system 🤷♂️
I've done that with the uni cender and the rope runner not with the zigzag and chicane 👍
Cool! What do you use for a neck lanyard?
@@zaccheus I have the petzel harness and suspenders it has a attachment for srt and a chest croll
@wvboy0311 oh so you probably used a regular knee ascender then
@@zaccheus yes sir
Do you have any recommendations for a hand ascender set up that won’t break the bank?
I'm probably not qualified to offer any real advice as I've only ever owned and used my Kong hand ascender. If you're looking for ascent systems that use a hand ascenders, the only one I know of is the "The Rad System." I'm not sure it's any more cost effective though. I have seen guys just use a single hand ascender, foot ascender and chest harness (to tend the climbing device) and just kinda inch worm their way up. It's pretty fast, but you definitely have to be pretty fit 😅
@@zaccheus thanks for gettin back to me 🙏 really appreciate you and your channel, content, and time you put into it for us fellow climbers…
Yeah the rad system is all I’ve been able to find any info on but I will prolly look into that combo as well cause hip thrusting has been a nightmare
@christiangrimm7607 Haha anything is better than hip thrusting. Maybe I'll make a video sometime this winter about the different ascent methods that I'm aware of. I'm sire I haven't seen them all, but I can probably put a couple ideas into one, central video
@@zaccheus that would be awesome and much appreciated
What if you put a quickie on the end that would attach to the Zigzag?
That would work well. I've also found that the XSRE mini carabiners work really well too. They work great for both ends of the foot lanyard and on the neck lanyard too. I just didn't have them when I filmed this video
Can you do this without the chicane and just the zigzag ?
@@jjhoffy no, you have to use the chicane for srt with the zigzag
@@zaccheus oh ok thanks, if you just use the zigzag plus with a foot and knee ascender will that still work instead of just using upper body strength ?
When I start climbing I don’t want to gas myself out on the job site and I was looking at the zigzag plus
@jjhoffy you'll always have to use some upper body effort to keep yourself upright, but your legs can do most of the lifting. Its definitely a skill amd the more you do it, the more effecient you can be with it. The fellas that race have it really figured out. The zigzag always needs to have the chicane for use on am srt system. You may see folks using it without, but that is incorrect and if they were ever to hurt themselves up in the tree, they wouldn't be able to get down because the zigzag can't properly support a person in descent without the added friction of the chicane.
@@zaccheus wait I can still use the zigzag without the chicane if I’m doing double rope right ?
What other climbing systems would you recommend?
@jjhoffy Yeah! It's absolutely approved for use without the chicane in a DRT configuration. It's only approved for use in an SRT configuration with the chicane.
I really like the zigzag for DRT when I'm working with a crane. I really like the akimbo for every day climbing for trims or removals.
I'll give this a try before forming an opinion. If you're dragging an ascender up the rope anyway why not make the most use of it.
Haha right! I'd love to hear your feedback.
@@zaccheus I tried your setup yesterday with mixed results. I will need a stronger bungee to make it work. I used a Unicender which has virtually zero setback, but I was getting drag from the rope being flattened from the Rope Runner Pro, I think. It would work great for a few steps and then hang up and not tend well. I'll try again with a different rope later. I like the idea of only needing a sling and foot loop versus the entire knee ascender setup. When it worked, it worked just as well as the knee ascender.
@Kevin. L thays fantastic! I'm glad to hear you were having success. I also struggled with that same problem and I noticed it changed a little bit from rope to rope. Xstatic seems to work good for me and I have mixed the use of my Akimbo and rope runner on it. I think I had the trouble you mentioned on Yale confetti which is very similar to blue moon
@@zaccheus I was using Blue Moon actually. I'll eventually pick up a rope to dedicate to the Rope Runner. Good to hear Xstatic works.
@Kevin. L It's a nice rope. I have some, too. I think you can have rope with good hand, or you can have rope that resists flattening. I don't think you can have both 😅
do you think i can used without the chicane ?
No, you absolutely need the chicane with the zigzag for an SRT configuration. I don't believe this will work in a DRT configuration.
How do you get the rope up to start with...
Excellent question! I typically use a throwball and light weight string (I use dynaglide myself) and I throw it up over a limb or use an air cannon that I made. Once the string is over a strong union in the tree, I use it to pull the rope up and over. Then I tie one end of the rope to the bottom of the tree and I can climb in the other end. Here is a link to a video about the air cannon I made. th-cam.com/video/uSIoHMxP4yk/w-d-xo.html
Would this work just as good with Akimbo or RRP?
It works good onnthe akimbo, but the rope runner struggles a little becaise there is more setback.
Look like your foot lanyard allows about a third of bend in your leg.
It's not as efficient as a knee asdender to my disappointment, I have played with it a bunch since making this video and gotten it to be better. Kinda gave to get the elastic juuuust right.
@zaccheus agreed. Requires self tuning. But still excellent method.
Nice👍🤔😉MICHIGAN 🇺🇸