90% of Xbox One games still use 900p 30fps on Xbox Series X. Game developers don't like updates - how many PSVR 1 games was updated to PSVR 2? - how many PS4 games was updated to PS4 Pro? - how many Xbox One games was updated to Xbox One X?
@@violetmars And this pro still won't play every game at 4k 60 because it's still an RDNA2/Zen 2 based console. The high end PCs are all using RDNA3/Zen 3 now. The only way we'd get 4k 60 in every game is when Sony move to RDNA3/Zen 3 architecture but that won't happen until the release of the PS6
Jesus I just realized it's been 5 years since I bought my current desktop CPU, a Zen 2 3600. Here I was initially baffled that these CPUs are already struggling given they are pretty much down clocked 3700s. But that makes sense.
I'm not sure why they are obsessed with the CPU when the main thing here is the PSSR. Games already run at 60. Combining a faster GPU with upscaling should get us 4k 60 FPS. It seems so obvious. I don't know why they are downplaying this.
I agree as well. After watching this DF review, I think it's not realistic to expect 60 fps with PS5 Pro in games like DD2 and others in graphics mode. If the upgrade is marginal, I won't be buying it.
As far as I understood, It will in most, not in others. Games that already reach 60 fps on base PS5, typically at a sizeable cost to image quality, will have that tradeoff resolved. It'll be like combining the best aspects of quality and performance mode while also boosting some aspects of graphics beyond previous quality modes. That would be Final Fantasy XVI, VII Rebirth, Hogwarts Legacy, Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, Village, Jedi Survivor, Avatar Frontiers, Elden Ring, Alan Wake II and many more. Games that already look great on their performance modes will see a more substantial graphical uplift. Think Marvel's Spider-Man (along with most ps studios games really) Games that struggle to reach beyond 30 fps on base PS5 will more than likely not have an significant fps boost. Dragons Dogma 2, GTA VI, Baldur's Gate 3 lows, Gotham Knights. Though if GTA and Dragons Dogma could go from 30 to 40 I'd consider it a huge upgrade. I don't really understand the somewhat negative opinions of the crew, there aren't that many notable cpu limited PS5 games as far as I'm aware. I'm probably missing something.
I miss when they’d just slash the price of the regular console to promote sales. I feel like it was always a reason these consoles ever got so successful. I remember getting a PS4 Slim with Unchater 4 for like $220.
What doesn't get me hyped about the PS5 Pro personally, is that these games won't automatically see an uplift (like on PC). We'll still have to wait for the 'will they, won't they' patch X game to leverage this uplift.
@@jazzfan67 as true as that is for that PS4 game, many (probably 75% more or less) PS5 games have dynamic resolutions and modes with uncapped framerates. If like the 4 Pro those games would see improvements without need for a patch unless the devs want to take advantage to do more.
I'll definitely be waiting to find out what actually happens in that regard. Also until some real life users have had it and confirm it doesn't have a fan noise like a hovercraft.
Sounds good to me, PS4 games have been better than PS5 games so far. If Sony were to surprise us with PS3 backwards compatibility with the PS5 Pro, I’d be utterly amazed.
Yeah that is dumb , in fact 8K is pretty dumb in general as there is little to no native content for it out there and probably can't even be distinguished from true 4K unless you sit 12 inches away from a 75 inch screen .
@@Shadowman820you can definitely tell a difference 1080 vs 4k on a 75 inch tv even regardless where you sit. But 8k isn’t needed unless you’re going above the 85 in tvs which 95 percent of people never will . For most homes 75 inch tvs is the max you’ll need in the living room and 65 for the bedroom.
My takeaway from this is the PS5 Pro is a testbed for PlayStation R&D, this is not a market demand product. The machine learning chip and the PLSS or whatever they are calling it is being tested for the PS6.
spot on. PS4Pro sales wasnt mark to make, it sold over 10million units but overwhelming playerbase was still PS4 and thus games were designed with that in mind. It is like console betatest before PS6 so 100 different bugs dont come as surprise when they launch with 20million expensive new consoles and people queue for that and journos nitpick it and every tiny 0.1% problem gets exploded in media. So with these in mind, PS5 Pro is very useful midpoint milestone, also for ps5/6 developers viewpoint to know what is coming.
I don't remember any actual marketing stating 4K 60fps as a guarantee. The marketing revolved around improved frame rates but never directly stated that 4K 60 simultaneously was the norm. In terms of improved frame rates, the consoles have meet that. The PS4 and Xbox one were stuck at 30fps. Everything on the PS5 box is on there because the system is capable of outputting it. That does not mean it can do all those things simultaneously. It's the same for TV's and other electronic products.
@stanislavkimov2779 yeah, that was definitely deceptive. Technically, a handful of games are capable of native 8k 120hz, but for some reason, the PS5 still can't output 8k resolution... 🤷♂️
It's a catch 22: You either deliver a console refresh so good that it betrays the people that invested in the original, or you make a refresh that's not worth upgrading for.
It’s almost never the first one. However, FOMO and the fact that most people are hopelessly addicted consumers, is enough to make people jump on it, despite the facts being right there in their faces.
If I'm not mistaken, the PS4 pro was 20% of Playstation's sales last gen and with profit margins already razor thin, I don't see Sony going balls to the wall with the specs if there's not much return.
Ps4 is still selling. I think the pro sold around 14 million in 2020. They discontinued production on the pro, and I think they might still be making ps4s. Total PS4 sales pro and og is 117 million So it's probably only around 12% PS4 pros.
@@techsamurai11 but i dont think its still a good number for a more "expensive" console to make and i think everthing comes down to pricing and this time the fact that they release the slim version before and not at the same time a lot of people just make the jump to the ps5 slim and they are probably not gonna drop 600 or more for another console in less than a year i feel like they could just waited and released the slim with the pro
wish I could @@xpodx Sadly here in Mexico is not affordable to get a decent PC so consoles are such a good choice when it comes to performance/price relation.
For the hardware side of things I believe that the specs are a little different. We're looking at 56 compute units which, for 33.5 FP32 TFLOPS would mean 2.337 GHz (slightly above base PS5). The other reason we know that it's 56 CU is because both of backward compatibility and process yield. Disabling DCUs is normal to allow use of slightly defective dies. Additionally, by disabling one shader engine, you get 1:1 cu compatibility with ps5/4. Also, power for the rdna 3 is improved compared to rdna2. So, a similar cu die should only use around 70% if using rdna3 instead of rdna2.
@@chettlar212dude if it can’t run a mid looking game like DD2 at 60FPS there’s now way it’ll run demanding games like GTA 6, Crimson Desert at 60. I’ll see the final product, I don’t need shiny sun or ray tracing bs I need performance.
@@chettlar212because the cpu is a limiting factor in many cases , a game like a plague tale requiem had to be specially optimized around those cpu limits to have 60 fps . So this gpu upgrade will be more noticeable for quality mode which runs at 4k and is rarely cpu limited rather then the performance mode , which won't change much and most game won't run at 120 fps despite the upgrade
right? GTA5 was made for consoles with less than 512mb of usable RAM...and devs these days cant even get a stable 30fps out of consoles that were nearly as powerful as high-end PCs when they launched...
I know we all like to avoid the drunk uncle in the family but as someone who enjoys VR I wonder if the PS5 Pro will have as much of a positive impact as PS4 Pro did on VR performance.
Do you mean to start working or actually improving the experience? They don't sell VR2 (As they don't care about launching it for PC, driver will be finished if not encrypted propietary stuff was in the hardware, doing reverse engineering ones may need now to use illegal crack and be banned or the long clean room develope from scratch after reverse engineer and crack it, good luck launching driver without being sued just in case you did not record every step of the development process to proof Sony and court you did it all by yourself after abstract reports on functionality and features)...
@@InternetListener I kinda agree, at the same time your blathering is a fucking headache to read. PSVR2 on the PC will be a nice PCVR headset, Sony's issue isn't a console that can't run the games, the headset was built with eye-tracking and Foveated Rendering, so those features carried it without an issue. The problem is there are no games to play. Just nothing. Hardware is not god, software is. PS5 is a embarrassing console to have out by Sony because none of the exclusives are really exclusive, they're not pushing games that are anything better than what is available on other platforms.
Something thats interesting to me that looking at a game with performance mode that is just a change in resolution, the Professional could be running the same performance mode speed but with a graphics mode resolution, which is nice enough. Personally I'm excited enough for it and love me some PlayStation hardware so I'll be getting one as soon as they are out. (PS hardware that isn't PS Portal)
Well, if the FP32 is just being doubled, then half of the 33.5TF is 16.75, which is about exactly 45% more TF than the 10.2 of PS5 base. Kinda all makes sense, if it really works like that.
If you want to build a console specced PC, just go 1 tier higher with the GPU, just because console optimization plays a big role. + More RAM, because there is a high chance you do Multitasking (browser Tabs, discord, game) And Linux or BSD would be more acurate when it comes to the OS.
@@-PVL93- how was the ps4 the same as the ps4 pro? the standard model was like a jet engine, the pro will be so much better and it will improve the psvr2
Not sure where you guys learned math but adding 0.5GHz to 1.6GHz is not "an additional 10% of clock speed." It's an additional 31.25%. Pretty much 1/3 more.
Wild bet: PS5 Pro uses the exact same heat sink as the launch console. (The launch heat sink was overbuilt and probably can handle the PS5 Pro silicon.)
Mega giant corporation of great and brilliant minds that made them billionaires mistakably put the wrong hardware in their international merchandise. Oooppsie daisy 😊
@@XAV-117I have a launch PS5 and mine is much quieter than my PS4 Pro. Barely hear it. Mine is a Digital model though, maybe yours is the disc drive? Disc drives can be super noisy.
Bloodborne is too precious to be touched in anyway. Sony feels it. It’s almost like it never existed. It needs to feel like a PS4 game forever. No - actually I hope they give us a 60 fps update or remake asap.
@@melxvee6850 You cant force 60 fps on any game that is software locked. No device can force higher FPS than the software allows, the only exception is PC if there are community mods/hacks.
51:56 This is a very good tip that I can personally confirm. I have an RTX 3070 which i was using with an i7-8700K (oc'd by 500mhz). This summer I replaced the CPU with a Ryzen 5 7600, and the difference is MASSIVE. I play at 1440p, and my minimum and average frames can't even be compared to the older intel system. Some CPU intensive games run twice as fast. CPU bottlenecks are very real.
@@GrigRP I’m not worried, they said they are not me. You understand that the word “worry” can mean a lot of things. I’m worried by ice cream might melt, and I’m worried I might die in a car wreck. People can worry about things my man.
Another reasons also why consoles never switch the cpu and focus on enhancing it is for the fact that it gets cheaper over time compared to asking amd to develop a new cpu. Kinda like ordering stock from a manufacturer it’s very much cheaper to enhance a design you’ve been buying for years rather than developing a new one and restarting the price per unit costs.
Were they talking about DF directs or regular videos? I don’t mind an opener ad read on a long form video, but I haaaate it when it’s for short form content. I buy TH-cam premium just to avoid ads 😅
Thats sad. I had a One X and it was fine and silent. My biggest issue was the lack of flash drive and the OS performance was pathetic with a 4TB big library
Really? My PS4 Slim was a jet engine, even after cracking it open and replacing the crappy dried out factory thermal paste with some fresh high quality thermal paste. I was happy to get rid of it for a Pro that ended up being much quieter.
@@PumpedSmartass My PS4 Slim was and is very quiet, some games obviously hit it hard, but I never really hear it over the game itself. IMO, PS4 was just a much better balanced system than the PS4 Pro.
The one thing that I didn't know was that developers were getting a sizeable increase in usable RAM with the PS5 Pro so that's definitely good to hear. Honestly, this is one of those systems where I would likely pick one up if money wasn't a concern and/or I didn't already own a PS5 BUT since I do already own a PS5 I can't see myself picking up a possible $600 console when I'm still paying off my new PC that simply dwarfs the capabilities of even this PS5 Pro. That being said, if my finances turn around in the future, the console possibly gets cheaper, AND Sony produces even more exclusive titles that I want to play with boosted performance/visuals then it's not impossible that I'll pick one up in the future but right now it's just a really hard investment to buy into.
Regarding the dual issue shaders in RDNA3, it's my understanding that AMD's implementation is very limited and only supports specific instructions that basically never get used in games so it has essentially no effect on gaming performance. nVidia's implementation is more extensive and along with other architectural changes provides Ampere around a 35% performance boost per SM over Turing.
The CPU in current gen consoles was the biggest upgrade and yet now most are complaining about CPU performance. Reason we dont have 60 fps games in PS5/XSX is developers.
If you upgrade from a snail to a sloth it's still an upgrade in terms of speed 😂. The CPU of the base PS5 was entry level for 2020 and for current standards it's pretty slow. Shame they didn't use the 3D V cache technology to give a much larger performance bump on the PS5 Pro cpu.
PS4 Pro was more compelling because of the substantial CPU performance increase, and was only $100 more dollars than the base, and $100 less than the Xbox One X. Remember the PS4 Pro was $400, the price of the original console until that point. Another huge aspect is that the PS4 Pro supported 4K, and by that time a lot of people were buying 4k tv's.
@teddyholiday8038 you'd have to be cpu limited at the *internal resolution* for that to not matter. Chances are you probably won't be cpu limited there
@@teddyholiday8038 nah, it’s not. Most games just aren’t that intensive. The most CPU intensive game this entire generation so far is Dragon’s Dogma. On Xbox’s end, Starfield is another. Regardless, the CPU is rarely an issue in the games we’ve gotten.
On 7 nm, yes, but newer nodes it could go higher. But yes I'm suprised they didn't use zen 4c. Faster, uses less power and uses less space than zen 2. Cheaper to use too. It's purely due to 1 to 1 backwards compatibility, even though zen 4 can run anything made for zen 2 just fine
I'm pretty sure psvr2 is coming to pc. Might as well just plug it into a real vr machine. Or you could blow more money to still not have hundreds of games.
Playstation V-2: re-MIX: Remake DLSS has a long history so I'm expecting Xess or TSR levels. Close to DLSS but not quite there. Frame generation is also something I wonder if they are going to inplement.
I'm pretty sure AMD has said FSR 3 frame gen is available on consoles (PS5, Xbox series). But maybe Sony will offer their own custom frame gen tech as a option as well.
For frame generation you need a baseline of 60 fps or so, preferably more, so when the CPU is already limiting games to 30 fps frame generation isn't useful in those cases. Could be useful for games that already manage to run at 60 fps and above though.
Used this as background sound to listen to and at night to go sleep . It was really nice probs better than white noise and I was also generally interested in the disscusion
They probably stuck to zen 2 because zen 3 has a unified l3 cache between the two 4 core chiplets and that could mess with compatibility. It's definitely disappointing CPU improvements, but if the game is coded half competently it should not have any issues getting at the very least 60 fps. 30 fps is just unacceptable, the PS2 is looked back on so fondly not only because of its immense game library but because nearly all games ran at 60fps and that has a profound impact on how a game is enjoyed.
I really hope that devs make console makers prioritize CPU over GPU so we get some truly interactive video games. Lighting is good and all but if your game is just a pretty static picture it does not add much to gameplay. I remember being so impressed by the physics in Crysis watching explosions throw tree branches and houses apart!
Oh god they are calling it PSSR. Insert an I and an E and you'll get a word that has two less syllables and is much easier to say, but is a little on the cheeky side 😂
@@Bankoru that's weird. I've had the same case, mobo, CPU, GPU, ram, storage, and power supply since the new consoles came out since their lack of availability had me look elsewhere for my future gaming. I'll probably consider a CPU swap whenever AMD starts hinting at switching from their current socket and GPU in another 2 or so GPU gens. The other stuff will probably be piece meal replaced as sales come up and what not. But certainly don't need to upgrade it every year. It's gonna cost more for more performance but if gaming is your way of coming down at the end of a day then do you.
I've been hearing this Pro rumor for the last few months and didnt really believe it would come this soon in the PS5's lifespan. If Digital Foundry is talking about it, then it's actually real.
I think one thing that was sort of missed in the CPU discussion was that...game's haven't really gotten a whole lot more computationally complex, it's seems that CPU optimization has gotten worse. Very similar game systems, crowd systems, inventory management systems, etc. are now running far more poorly in many titles when they are really doing anything crazy or new, which leads me to believe that those titles (this is a regular human phenomenon, you get more power/ease of use/etc., you'll won't commit as many resources to that sector of development since you can just brute force it instead) aren't CPU optimized. Other than Baldur's Gate 3, which is extremely well designed and an outlier, most of these games that run at 30fps on consoles also run disproportionately worse than other games on high end PCs. Jedi Survivor, Starfield, Redfall, Gotham Knights, and more all exhibit terrible CPU utilization issues that on PC are "solved" by pure brute force. That's not game development, that's just shoving a product onto a machine and hoping it can make for development shortcuts. As such, I think Sony is mostly concerned with their first party lineup, which typically are well optimized for CPU performance and hence...they don't really need all that extra CPU power in PS5 Pro in their eyes, especially if the PSSR has a frame-gen like component.
@@tim3172 It's silly to dismiss something based on one simple grammatical error (though there are others) as it doesn't diminish someone's ability to critically think. I have Physics/Maths Post-Doc friends who also make grammatical errors in casual environments, unless they go out of their way not to. There are always people smarter than us dude, your assessment of intellect based on such limited information about the OP is niave, a bit of humility goes a long way.
It's quite simple. Draw calls. Modern games with more complex materials and lighting require more draw calls. Modern games also have far more dense environments with a larger amount of meshs/models and longer view distances. Again more draw calls. Draw calls are the biggest killer of cpu performance. There are lot's of clever ways to optimise this which are used but there's only so much you can do.
My guess is the Pro will be aimed at consumers wanting to make the most of their 4K HDMI 2.1 displays offering more 4K 120Hz options on the pro console, if you have a 4k 60hz display your probably fine with the standard PS5 also, still going with a 1TB SSD is dissapointing it should be 2TB at least
Upgrade it yourself… 2TB is under 200 bucks… It could be worse… you could be spending $200 for 1TB of proprietary memory on a stick running NVME Gen 3 like XB does!
31:50 That's exactly what the leaks say. The Pro will have dedicated hardware units for certain RT operations, instead of having the games use the shaders for those.
The choice to stick to the current CPU architecture makes sense and is not related to the amount of die space. It's important to remember that this IS a PS5, it's a better PS5 for sure, but the plan isn't to introduce a new generation or significantly change the landscape. If you had a significantly more powerful CPU in the Pro, current PS5 & Series X owners would be left in the dust with some developers opting to push for 30 fps on base consoles, and 60 fps on the PS5 Pro, which is a bad situation. Keeping the CPU performance similar across all current-gen consoles ensures that games will continue to run well across all these systems. It's a decision that I feel makes sense. And of course, the CPU can be set to a slightly higher clock speed, which would clean up any CPU-related hiccups that the base consoles might experience. Microsoft is a bit misleading in how they advertise their CPU specs as the 3.8ghz mentioned for the Series X is with SMT disabled, which you would never do in practice as it gives you a higher clock speed but results in a significant drop to overall CPU performance, Sony's specs are with SMT enabled. Taking this into account, it leaves us with 3.4ghz for the Series S, 3.5ghz for the PS5, 3.6ghz for the Series X, and 3.85ghz for the PS5 Pro. Which feels about right. My expectation is that the PS5 Pro will simply be a PS5 that offers extra bells and whistles, better raytracing, higher resolutions and less drops below 60, but for the most part I would expect the experience to be very similar regardless of whether you're playing on a PS5 or PS5 Pro. This is not a new generation and shouldn't be treated as one.
Why is it a bad situation? Seems pretty logical to me that the most powerful console would get some kind of advantage. It's exactly how it worked last gen too. Devs would still need to focus on the base consoles first with the bigger install base of that gen anyway.
@@Ayoul People bought into this generation expecting 60 fps for the majority of titles. If the CPU was a massive upgrade on the Pro console, many games would likely target 30 fps on the base console. This is a bad situation because 60 fps should be the standard across all current-gen consoles. Since the CPU has remained largely the same, that's something we won't have to worry about. I never said the PS5 Pro would not 'get some kind of advantage', nor did I say it wouldn't be 'how it worked last gen too'. In fact, I'm expecting it to be EXACTLY like last gen. Obviously the PS5 Pro will have the best image quality and visual features along with smoothed out frame-rates. But I'm not expecting games to start targeting 30 fps on the base consoles instead of 60, just because the PS5 Pro exists. If you look at the PS4 Pro, it didn't drastically shift the needle, it was still a PS4 and the vast majority of games ran about the same on both consoles, it would just have better visuals on the Pro along with less dips below 30. I'm expecting the same for the PS5 Pro, because again, it's still a PS5. This is how it should be, and clearly Sony agrees as that is reflected in the decisions they've made for the console. It also allows the next-generation to be a larger, more impressive jump.
But in a way, it does. If the game already runs at 60, there's a good chance it will be at 4K now. It's just not necessarily going to take something that was 4K30 and make it 4K 60.
Other things I like to know is if the PS5 Pro will have a second NVMe slot, what the actual box will be, and how games will actually perform compared to the standard PS5.
Overthinking here has clouded the point. What did PS4 Pro really amount to? Resolution bump. PSSR alone is a perceptual resolution bump that will probably amount to more… even if you were to take the PS5 standard resolutions as a base PSSR was applied to. Now… 2x - 4X ray tracing performance? That is a bump in high end visual effects independent of resolution. You’re already doing more than PS4 Pro vs. Standard did. And both of those individual bumps are not fully taking into account the raw rasterization performance increase you’d see from the additional GPU cores and architecture upgrades. I think this machine , leveraged correctly, will be a larger perceptual upgrade vs. the last Pro console.
@@xBINARYGODxOf course not given current economic conditions. I can’t wait to see how this improves PSVR2. Lighting effects in VR add a lot to the immersion.
12:59 Pretty sure ROG Ally uses a Phoenix based Zen 4 mobile APU. Between ARMA, KSP, Civ and the likes if you make the effort to minimize GPU demand, I suspect you can produce some significant CPU limited performance differences. It's more likely neither have an iGPU powerful enough for the CPU difference to show very often in more mainstream use scenarios.
Hopefully. Though Sony nerfed PSVR games on the PS4 Pro. They didn’t want owners of PS4 consoles to be left out. This meant that whilst the PS4 Pro helped on some games it was largely a wasted opportunity.
@@SuperNova-py1ec I had the original PS VR, with the PS4 and the PS4 pro as well. Hopefully a lot of the games already made such as GT7, Horizon COTM, No Man's Sky and RE4 etc will take advantage of the PS5 pro
I mean, saying the hardware is bad for the software seems like a flipped line of thought. Maybe we should stop accepting Unreal bloating their engine with single-threaded issues since UE3.
I'm gonna be so sad if GTA 6 can't do 60 on PS5 / PS5 pro. It's so hard for me to go back to 30fps these days. And yeah, I know PC is an option - I prefer consoles. 🤷♂
There's 3140 games on PS5, not counting PS4 ones backward compatible. 4 of them run at only 30FPS (could be off but it's a very small number around there). While that number will increase, perhaps that's why Sony decided against a new CPU? 40Hz modes are also a very attainable.
They don't want to change the CPU because then it wouldn't be a seamless transition. That's why the CPU is for the most part the same on both series consoles. A new CPU with diff architecture would require a lot more dev time
💯🤔 PS5 PRO is a Day 1 purchase….. But for me personally, the PS5 Pro will be the last console I buy for a very very long time, maybe the last modern console I buy ever. Been doing this for 30 years now ever since I was kid. In my late 30s now. The PS5 Pro will do everything I need. Been chasing tech for a long time now. We all gotta get off the bus sometime. My stop is coming up soon.
I’ve heard that AMD is going to do AI upscaling in general and a lot of people guess it will be the AI accelerators on the RDNA3 cards which makes sense. So far they haven’t been used for anything so maybe they were waiting for the console fresh before implementing it.
At this point I can’t wait to see Mark Cerny presentation on this new hardware. What are the new custom hardware they gonna bring in, just like previously they did with their custom SSD, custom hardware decompression, custom co-processor, GPU cache scrubber etc. I hope we can see a Tensor Core like custom chip so that we can get both AI upscaling like DLSS or XESS and better Ray Tracing quality like Nvidia Ray Reconstruction. And I also want to know how they manage to reduce memory overhead of the OS and increase allocation for developers to use. Gonna be interesting nonetheless.
This is as exciting as a brick. The only reason I want PS5 is FFVII and I will wait for the PC version. If Sony announced full retrocompability from PS1 to PS3 including physical copies, I'd buy one tomorrow.
We don't need a Pro, We Need Some Games. Not Just any games, FUN games. JUST MAKE FUN GAMES! They don't need to take 3-4 years to make, we don't need HIGH fidelity we need HIGH fun. Also, how about we unlock the framerate for the thousands of PS4 games that still can't harness the power of the current PS5. Stop wasting people's time.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Now I can play bloodborne at 30fps
Still bad frame pacing tho 😔
Just mod your PS5 play at 60 easy
LOCKED
90% of Xbox One games still use 900p 30fps on Xbox Series X. Game developers don't like updates
- how many PSVR 1 games was updated to PSVR 2?
- how many PS4 games was updated to PS4 Pro?
- how many Xbox One games was updated to Xbox One X?
Crazy that game did not get the free 4k/60fps patch like a 155 other Ps4 disc games got .
Does this mean I now own a PS5 Amateur?
PS5 Casual
You just got the 30fps version ps5
I'm rocking the PS5 Rookie
@@violetmars And this pro still won't play every game at 4k 60 because it's still an RDNA2/Zen 2 based console. The high end PCs are all using RDNA3/Zen 3 now.
The only way we'd get 4k 60 in every game is when Sony move to RDNA3/Zen 3 architecture but that won't happen until the release of the PS6
OG PLAYSTATION
Spectral super resolution? I'd expect plenty of *ghosting*
🥁
Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.
But dude, each frame will be extra professional.
Straight up lol I wonder if Sony knew fsr 2.0 or 2.1 is not the best for Sony
Get out.
@@IsraelWokoh😂
It's a *fantasmic* upgrade.
"We said 4k first time, now we mean it this time!"
🤣
aaaaaand games still won't run at 4k/60 in all titles.
@@hl236lmao it will just after it gets upscaled to 4k from PSSR ultra performance 720p. You got to get it down to PS2 resolution first.
Eight Kay?!
Well my box says 8k!!
ACTUALLY, they said 8k/120, IT'S ON THE BOX! NEVER FORGET!
If this does not do 60fps in graphics mode, it is pointless. They need to have some clear advantage on current catalog to make any sense.
Jesus I just realized it's been 5 years since I bought my current desktop CPU, a Zen 2 3600. Here I was initially baffled that these CPUs are already struggling given they are pretty much down clocked 3700s. But that makes sense.
I'm not sure why they are obsessed with the CPU when the main thing here is the PSSR. Games already run at 60. Combining a faster GPU with upscaling should get us 4k 60 FPS. It seems so obvious. I don't know why they are downplaying this.
I agree as well. After watching this DF review, I think it's not realistic to expect 60 fps with PS5 Pro in games like DD2 and others in graphics mode. If the upgrade is marginal, I won't be buying it.
60fps and maximum fidelity(textures, LOD etc) is all I ask from the “graphics/resolution” mode. RT? Don’t really care for that
As far as I understood, It will in most, not in others.
Games that already reach 60 fps on base PS5, typically at a sizeable cost to image quality, will have that tradeoff resolved. It'll be like combining the best aspects of quality and performance mode while also boosting some aspects of graphics beyond previous quality modes.
That would be Final Fantasy XVI, VII Rebirth, Hogwarts Legacy, Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, Village, Jedi Survivor, Avatar Frontiers, Elden Ring, Alan Wake II and many more.
Games that already look great on their performance modes will see a more substantial graphical uplift.
Think Marvel's Spider-Man (along with most ps studios games really)
Games that struggle to reach beyond 30 fps on base PS5 will more than likely not have an significant fps boost.
Dragons Dogma 2, GTA VI, Baldur's Gate 3 lows, Gotham Knights.
Though if GTA and Dragons Dogma could go from 30 to 40 I'd consider it a huge upgrade.
I don't really understand the somewhat negative opinions of the crew, there aren't that many notable cpu limited PS5 games as far as I'm aware. I'm probably missing something.
Finally, I’ll be able to play Brothers: A Tale of two sons at 1080p 60 FPS
@@lukemorris9066it's just sarcasm. He means there are lack of AAA games .
Ff16 as well
Considering the CPU, it'll be 8K at 30FPS
You'll be able to play Gollum at 8k
@@xtr.7662 of course.
But it will be releasing on pc too so..
I miss when they’d just slash the price of the regular console to promote sales. I feel like it was always a reason these consoles ever got so successful. I remember getting a PS4 Slim with Unchater 4 for like $220.
What doesn't get me hyped about the PS5 Pro personally, is that these games won't automatically see an uplift (like on PC). We'll still have to wait for the 'will they, won't they' patch X game to leverage this uplift.
@@jazzfan67 as true as that is for that PS4 game, many (probably 75% more or less) PS5 games have dynamic resolutions and modes with uncapped framerates. If like the 4 Pro those games would see improvements without need for a patch unless the devs want to take advantage to do more.
Yes and then they will rather sell a simple remaster on PS6 instead of a free pro patch.
That's why I gave up on consoles. I'm done waiting for any npatch to RDR2
I'll definitely be waiting to find out what actually happens in that regard. Also until some real life users have had it and confirm it doesn't have a fan noise like a hovercraft.
@@alaryk3635Really?!
Great, now we can play our PS4 games even faster!!!
Sounds good to me, PS4 games have been better than PS5 games so far. If Sony were to surprise us with PS3 backwards compatibility with the PS5 Pro, I’d be utterly amazed.
@@zanfearhh no
@zanfear nah bro people who bought the ps5 will just be angry because they need a new console to play their favorite ps3 games
45:45 Missed an opportunity for placing a "Back in the P.S.S.R." somewhere in there, Rich
In Soviet PlayStation, machine learns YOU!
Sony talking about 8k is ridiculous when they still aren’t anywhere close to maximizing 4k yet…not to mention 8k TV proliferation.
Yeah that is dumb , in fact 8K is pretty dumb in general as there is little to no native content for it out there and probably can't even be distinguished from true 4K unless you sit 12 inches away from a 75 inch screen .
@@Shadowman820you can definitely tell a difference 1080 vs 4k on a 75 inch tv even regardless where you sit. But 8k isn’t needed unless you’re going above the 85 in tvs which 95 percent of people never will . For most homes 75 inch tvs is the max you’ll need in the living room and 65 for the bedroom.
My takeaway from this is the PS5 Pro is a testbed for PlayStation R&D, this is not a market demand product.
The machine learning chip and the PLSS or whatever they are calling it is being tested for the PS6.
Nobody asked what your takeaway was. Nobody really cares either 😊
More insightful and useful than your reply.
@@ibuildpyramidsdon’t see digital foundry saying that. What’s the point of comments, if you can’t give your take then?
spot on. PS4Pro sales wasnt mark to make, it sold over 10million units but overwhelming playerbase was still PS4 and thus games were designed with that in mind. It is like console betatest before PS6 so 100 different bugs dont come as surprise when they launch with 20million expensive new consoles and people queue for that and journos nitpick it and every tiny 0.1% problem gets exploded in media. So with these in mind, PS5 Pro is very useful midpoint milestone, also for ps5/6 developers viewpoint to know what is coming.
Are you kidding? You think a company is going to spend billions of dollars launching a product which carries their brand, just as a testbed?
I hate how current gen consoles heavily advertised 4K60 as a main selling point. They even put it right on their box. I think it fooled many people.
Well, some games do run at 2160p60. It's just that they're all indies with simpler graphics.
8K 120fps was on the box. Also with RT.
I don't remember any actual marketing stating 4K 60fps as a guarantee. The marketing revolved around improved frame rates but never directly stated that 4K 60 simultaneously was the norm. In terms of improved frame rates, the consoles have meet that. The PS4 and Xbox one were stuck at 30fps.
Everything on the PS5 box is on there because the system is capable of outputting it. That does not mean it can do all those things simultaneously. It's the same for TV's and other electronic products.
@stanislavkimov2779 yeah, that was definitely deceptive. Technically, a handful of games are capable of native 8k 120hz, but for some reason, the PS5 still can't output 8k resolution... 🤷♂️
PS3 advertised 1080p. Hardly any large scale game’s achieved that. Similar?
The PS5 Pro should come with a suit and tie, it's that professional.
It already has a collared shirt
you dont see the white tuxedo black tie? any more pro and it will be holding a walter ppk
Sipping gin and juice
Not just that, but a perfume and a business briefcase as well.
More like a Tuxedo and floss pick!!!
It's a catch 22: You either deliver a console refresh so good that it betrays the people that invested in the original, or you make a refresh that's not worth upgrading for.
indeed
Is it betrayal if it's 4 years into the life cycle? The PS4 Pro came out 3 years after so this seems more generous
It’s almost never the first one. However, FOMO and the fact that most people are hopelessly addicted consumers, is enough to make people jump on it, despite the facts being right there in their faces.
So it's a con then!!!... As usual... Stop trying to sugar coat it...... Fools will be parted from there money!!!!
Or don't make a refresh and squeeze every bit of creativity like 360 ps3 era.
Alex’s face when he considers the flight of sub 30 fps gaming in the here and now is priceless…
If I'm not mistaken, the PS4 pro was 20% of Playstation's sales last gen and with profit margins already razor thin, I don't see Sony going balls to the wall with the specs if there's not much return.
10% of PS4 sales
I think it was 20%@@Doggo-frencton
Ps4 is still selling. I think the pro sold around 14 million in 2020.
They discontinued production on the pro, and I think they might still be making ps4s.
Total PS4 sales pro and og is 117 million
So it's probably only around 12% PS4 pros.
That's still a lot of units - isn't that 20+ million? Not bad for a console with half the lifespan.
@@techsamurai11 but i dont think its still a good number for a more "expensive" console to make and i think everthing comes down to pricing and this time the fact that they release the slim version before and not at the same time a lot of people just make the jump to the ps5 slim and they are probably not gonna drop 600 or more for another console in less than a year i feel like they could just waited and released the slim with the pro
This kind of GPU upgrade actually looks like it would have the biggest meaningful impact on PSVR2 games.
I would like to see the benefits of this
Can’t fix the terrible mura effect tho
@@EpiCz_Izzyno, did you think it would?
Good for all 5 PSVR users
Which 2 PSVR2 games ? Pavlov, GT7 or both.
All this is telling me is that a ps5 pro is not really worth upgrading to if you already have a ps5.
Maybe upgrade to a pc? 😅
@@xpodxnot worth it with the current state of pc gaming. Huge investment only to get f over by terrible ports, performance shattering DRM etc.
wish I could @@xpodx
Sadly here in Mexico is not affordable to get a decent PC so consoles are such a good choice when it comes to performance/price relation.
@@MrKutKuGaruga96 used parts?
@Shvabicu can get used parts and there's 1000s of amazing games. 100% worth it
For the hardware side of things I believe that the specs are a little different.
We're looking at 56 compute units which, for 33.5 FP32 TFLOPS would mean 2.337 GHz (slightly above base PS5).
The other reason we know that it's 56 CU is because both of backward compatibility and process yield. Disabling DCUs is normal to allow use of slightly defective dies. Additionally, by disabling one shader engine, you get 1:1 cu compatibility with ps5/4.
Also, power for the rdna 3 is improved compared to rdna2. So, a similar cu die should only use around 70% if using rdna3 instead of rdna2.
PS5 Pro & CPU " Ah shit, here we go again. "
Most games have 60 fps modes. Idk why people keep acting like the CPU needs a huge upgrade. If you can make a 60 fps mode, your CPU is fine.
When games now have 120hz modes why do we need a better CPU? Do you need 240hz?
GTA 6!!!!!!
@@chettlar212dude if it can’t run a mid looking game like DD2 at 60FPS there’s now way it’ll run demanding games like GTA 6, Crimson Desert at 60. I’ll see the final product, I don’t need shiny sun or ray tracing bs I need performance.
@@chettlar212because the cpu is a limiting factor in many cases , a game like a plague tale requiem had to be specially optimized around those cpu limits to have 60 fps . So this gpu upgrade will be more noticeable for quality mode which runs at 4k and is rarely cpu limited rather then the performance mode , which won't change much and most game won't run at 120 fps despite the upgrade
"I think this thing might be a bit of a chonker"
-Oliver from Digital Foundry
Wow!! Now we will play re re re re re remasters @60fps!!!
*after 6 months when all the patches have been applied
Lol… yeah. Ps5 pro, no games, make sense.
Last of Us Part 1.0 RE-Remastered Decoded
Love the fact that Ollie got included in this discussion. 😃
IMO Ollie >>> John. Could have these 3 always do the podcast as well.
They can't always include him because his tongue gets 1% bigger every time he appears in a video
We need better games, not better hardware
right? GTA5 was made for consoles with less than 512mb of usable RAM...and devs these days cant even get a stable 30fps out of consoles that were nearly as powerful as high-end PCs when they launched...
Yea nobody upgrade their 20 series cards ever because random TH-cam commenter thinks we don't need better hardware.
better AI 💀
Need both. It's never enough power.
@@xpodxPower for what? There's no games
I know we all like to avoid the drunk uncle in the family but as someone who enjoys VR I wonder if the PS5 Pro will have as much of a positive impact as PS4 Pro did on VR performance.
Do you mean to start working or actually improving the experience? They don't sell VR2 (As they don't care about launching it for PC, driver will be finished if not encrypted propietary stuff was in the hardware, doing reverse engineering ones may need now to use illegal crack and be banned or the long clean room develope from scratch after reverse engineer and crack it, good luck launching driver without being sued just in case you did not record every step of the development process to proof Sony and court you did it all by yourself after abstract reports on functionality and features)...
@@InternetListener Sony noted on PlayStation Blog that it is currently working on bringing PlayStation VR2 headsets to Windows PC.
Not that deep bro @@InternetListener
@@InternetListener I kinda agree, at the same time your blathering is a fucking headache to read.
PSVR2 on the PC will be a nice PCVR headset, Sony's issue isn't a console that can't run the games, the headset was built with eye-tracking and Foveated Rendering, so those features carried it without an issue. The problem is there are no games to play.
Just nothing. Hardware is not god, software is. PS5 is a embarrassing console to have out by Sony because none of the exclusives are really exclusive, they're not pushing games that are anything better than what is available on other platforms.
@RoadRager2311 they just haulted production of the PSVR2.
Something thats interesting to me that looking at a game with performance mode that is just a change in resolution, the Professional could be running the same performance mode speed but with a graphics mode resolution, which is nice enough.
Personally I'm excited enough for it and love me some PlayStation hardware so I'll be getting one as soon as they are out. (PS hardware that isn't PS Portal)
Well, if the FP32 is just being doubled, then half of the 33.5TF is 16.75, which is about exactly 45% more TF than the 10.2 of PS5 base. Kinda all makes sense, if it really works like that.
I hope you guys can 'simulate' what we can expect from this machine using equivalent pc parts
Didn't rich already do that?
It's a 7700 with a Ryzen 2. Though it might have RDNA4 improvements so i guess it's GPU will be more like the 8600?
If you want to build a console specced PC, just go 1 tier higher with the GPU, just because console optimization plays a big role. + More RAM, because there is a high chance you do Multitasking (browser Tabs, discord, game)
And Linux or BSD would be more acurate when it comes to the OS.
@@-PVL93- how was the ps4 the same as the ps4 pro? the standard model was like a jet engine, the pro will be so much better and it will improve the psvr2
@@daysgone2997 who are you talking to?
If ray tracing is only available on quality mode, the increase in power wouldn’t matter at all. I like to see quality 60 fps.
So basically we can expect much less blur, more fidelity and texture in performance and quality modes, and that's about it, I suppose.
Not sure where you guys learned math but adding 0.5GHz to 1.6GHz is not "an additional 10% of clock speed." It's an additional 31.25%. Pretty much 1/3 more.
38:00 spectral means frequency domain as opposed to temporal (time domain). They’re probably using fft features for the super resolution network.
Wild bet: PS5 Pro uses the exact same heat sink as the launch console.
(The launch heat sink was overbuilt and probably can handle the PS5 Pro silicon.)
Mega giant corporation of great and brilliant minds that made them billionaires mistakably put the wrong hardware in their international merchandise. Oooppsie daisy 😊
Omg bro you’re so smart. We need you at Sony 🙏😰❤️🔥
Launch PS5 is also loud though.
@@kobeandgary Uh no my Launch Ps5 is absolutely quiet
@@XAV-117I have a launch PS5 and mine is much quieter than my PS4 Pro. Barely hear it. Mine is a Digital model though, maybe yours is the disc drive? Disc drives can be super noisy.
Can't wait to run Bloodborne in my brand new PS5 Pro in 1080p 30fps!!!!
😅
Bloodborn is an intensive game, be grateful the PS5 doesn't blow up from just the menu screen
It says no per title training so pssr might force the game to run at 4K60
Bloodborne is too precious to be touched in anyway. Sony feels it. It’s almost like it never existed. It needs to feel like a PS4 game forever. No - actually I hope they give us a 60 fps update or remake asap.
@@melxvee6850 You cant force 60 fps on any game that is software locked. No device can force higher FPS than the software allows, the only exception is PC if there are community mods/hacks.
51:56 This is a very good tip that I can personally confirm. I have an RTX 3070 which i was using with an i7-8700K (oc'd by 500mhz). This summer I replaced the CPU with a Ryzen 5 7600, and the difference is MASSIVE. I play at 1440p, and my minimum and average frames can't even be compared to the older intel system. Some CPU intensive games run twice as fast. CPU bottlenecks are very real.
AI techniques are more than enough for a generational leap, it's not about the hardware anymore. A PS5 Pro version of DLSS 3.5 would take the cake.
That is if developers bother to optimise games for Sony's upscaling technology.
I was worried we'd have to wait a week for this. Thankfully, you guys are amazing.
it's not coming out next week, why the worry?
@@Miguel_Noether Yeah and its a piece of dump, why worry ?
@@Miguel_Noetherthey mean the video ….. not the console
@@mmarshfairc3 Why are you so worried about a video not coming?
@@GrigRP I’m not worried, they said they are not me. You understand that the word “worry” can mean a lot of things. I’m worried by ice cream might melt, and I’m worried I might die in a car wreck. People can worry about things my man.
Another reasons also why consoles never switch the cpu and focus on enhancing it is for the fact that it gets cheaper over time compared to asking amd to develop a new cpu. Kinda like ordering stock from a manufacturer it’s very much cheaper to enhance a design you’ve been buying for years rather than developing a new one and restarting the price per unit costs.
I remember a DF Direct not too long ago when Rich said something along the lines of opening a video with a 30 second ad read was a bridge too far.
Were they talking about DF directs or regular videos? I don’t mind an opener ad read on a long form video, but I haaaate it when it’s for short form content. I buy TH-cam premium just to avoid ads 😅
@@Janus1000TH-cam revanced doesn't have ads much
@@Leonard.L.Churchit's amazing and I use it just out of spite for yt and their ridiculous censorship
I made the mistake getting the PS4 Pro, otherwise known as a literal Jet Engine. Never again, the slim was by far the superior console
Agreed, I sold my PS4 Pro for a Days of Play PS4 version. I hardly noticed a difference, even on a 4K TV.
Thats sad. I had a One X and it was fine and silent. My biggest issue was the lack of flash drive and the OS performance was pathetic with a 4TB big library
Really? My PS4 Slim was a jet engine, even after cracking it open and replacing the crappy dried out factory thermal paste with some fresh high quality thermal paste. I was happy to get rid of it for a Pro that ended up being much quieter.
@@mjc0961 I guess that was the cost of the slimmer, sexier design with integrated power brick. Xbox literally had a power BRICK🧱
@@PumpedSmartass My PS4 Slim was and is very quiet, some games obviously hit it hard, but I never really hear it over the game itself. IMO, PS4 was just a much better balanced system than the PS4 Pro.
The one thing that I didn't know was that developers were getting a sizeable increase in usable RAM with the PS5 Pro so that's definitely good to hear. Honestly, this is one of those systems where I would likely pick one up if money wasn't a concern and/or I didn't already own a PS5 BUT since I do already own a PS5 I can't see myself picking up a possible $600 console when I'm still paying off my new PC that simply dwarfs the capabilities of even this PS5 Pro. That being said, if my finances turn around in the future, the console possibly gets cheaper, AND Sony produces even more exclusive titles that I want to play with boosted performance/visuals then it's not impossible that I'll pick one up in the future but right now it's just a really hard investment to buy into.
save for PS6 then.... thats maybe 3years away. to get that pc paid off.
26:22 that reaction from Alex says it all lmao
Huge fan of the OLED friendly lava lamp background by the way!
Regarding the dual issue shaders in RDNA3, it's my understanding that AMD's implementation is very limited and only supports specific instructions that basically never get used in games so it has essentially no effect on gaming performance. nVidia's implementation is more extensive and along with other architectural changes provides Ampere around a 35% performance boost per SM over Turing.
PSSR will probably be a selling point for PlayStation, like DLSS is for Nvidia.
Interesting to see Nintendo DLSS version for Switch 2.
Nintendo better have DLSS. It would be awesome to see a console finally have it.
DLSS 3 is the only decent implementation of DLSS lol
@@counterstriker3971that’s not true, 2.5.1 is awesome
The GPU is based on Ampere so DLSS 2. Has DLSS 3 been implemented in the RTX 3000 series or is that still exclusive to 4000?
@@BurritoKingdom DLSS 3 and 3.5 has but not frame gen because the 20xx/30xx cards lack the hardware.
The CPU in current gen consoles was the biggest upgrade and yet now most are complaining about CPU performance. Reason we dont have 60 fps games in PS5/XSX is developers.
If you upgrade from a snail to a sloth it's still an upgrade in terms of speed 😂. The CPU of the base PS5 was entry level for 2020 and for current standards it's pretty slow. Shame they didn't use the 3D V cache technology to give a much larger performance bump on the PS5 Pro cpu.
PS4 Pro was more compelling because of the substantial CPU performance increase, and was only $100 more dollars than the base, and $100 less than the Xbox One X. Remember the PS4 Pro was $400, the price of the original console until that point. Another huge aspect is that the PS4 Pro supported 4K, and by that time a lot of people were buying 4k tv's.
How many more games ran at double the FPS on the PS5 pro?
I thought the PSSR would be the "game changer" here, doing something like Dlss, lowering internal res to boost fps while maintaining image quality.
Doesn’t help cpu limited scenarios
@teddyholiday8038 you'd have to be cpu limited at the *internal resolution* for that to not matter. Chances are you probably won't be cpu limited there
the cpu limit natative isn't true. There won't be any cpu bottleneck, it's funny to say it
@@christok1986 it’s absolutely true
@@teddyholiday8038 nah, it’s not. Most games just aren’t that intensive.
The most CPU intensive game this entire generation so far is Dragon’s Dogma.
On Xbox’s end, Starfield is another. Regardless, the CPU is rarely an issue in the games we’ve gotten.
I think that part of the reason of the low clock uplift on the GPU is that older versions of Zen tend to stop scaling at 4GHz
On 7 nm, yes, but newer nodes it could go higher. But yes I'm suprised they didn't use zen 4c. Faster, uses less power and uses less space than zen 2. Cheaper to use too. It's purely due to 1 to 1 backwards compatibility, even though zen 4 can run anything made for zen 2 just fine
@@wile123456 i'm not talking about how high you get the CPU to clock, i'm talking about how much performance you get out of that higher frequency.
@@wile123456 I don't think zen4c is smaller in area compared to zen2 if you put both on the 6nm node
PSVR2 titles need some ps5pro love
Damn right! Resident Evil at full headset Res will be awesome
Same, i want better GT7 visuals!!!
I'm pretty sure psvr2 is coming to pc. Might as well just plug it into a real vr machine. Or you could blow more money to still not have hundreds of games.
PSVR2 titles need some developer love
Stellarblade VR?
50% Increase, Excited! Now my 30 fps games can run at 45 fps! Lovely Lovely
I am excited for this as I like new tech, but I dont think this will bring 60fps updates as some as saying.
31:08 It’s not a philosophy difference, it’s an R&D dollars difference.
Playstation V-2: re-MIX: Remake
DLSS has a long history so I'm expecting Xess or TSR levels. Close to DLSS but not quite there. Frame generation is also something I wonder if they are going to inplement.
I'm pretty sure AMD has said FSR 3 frame gen is available on consoles (PS5, Xbox series). But maybe Sony will offer their own custom frame gen tech as a option as well.
PSSR will evolve like DLSS has
@teddyholiday8038 true. Just like fsr, tsr, and xess do but I think we shoukd set our expectations around the tsr and xess quality
For frame generation you need a baseline of 60 fps or so, preferably more, so when the CPU is already limiting games to 30 fps frame generation isn't useful in those cases. Could be useful for games that already manage to run at 60 fps and above though.
@@Mogura87 that’s not true, using frame Gen from 45fps is fine, it’s been proven
Used this as background sound to listen to and at night to go sleep . It was really nice probs better than white noise and I was also generally interested in the disscusion
35:00 how will Sony announce it? "Feast your eyes at 8K gaming! Ray Tracing out the waaazooo!"
Big news! Brought me back to "Ray Tracing Foundry" after many moons.
Yeah, and more then ever it's emberassing to watch them talk about it.
They probably stuck to zen 2 because zen 3 has a unified l3 cache between the two 4 core chiplets and that could mess with compatibility. It's definitely disappointing CPU improvements, but if the game is coded half competently it should not have any issues getting at the very least 60 fps. 30 fps is just unacceptable, the PS2 is looked back on so fondly not only because of its immense game library but because nearly all games ran at 60fps and that has a profound impact on how a game is enjoyed.
I really hope that devs make console makers prioritize CPU over GPU so we get some truly interactive video games. Lighting is good and all but if your game is just a pretty static picture it does not add much to gameplay. I remember being so impressed by the physics in Crysis watching explosions throw tree branches and houses apart!
Oh what a nice suprise. Another df special. So happy going to watch this now guys. love the channel so much
Oh god they are calling it PSSR. Insert an I and an E and you'll get a word that has two less syllables and is much easier to say, but is a little on the cheeky side 😂
Back in the PSSR
Well ain't that a PSSR
This mid gen refresh strikes me as more of a marketing push to get XB1 and PS4 holdovers to upgrade vs an actual spec bump to improve gaming. 🤷
On PC you have to upgrade every year
@@Bankoru that's weird. I've had the same case, mobo, CPU, GPU, ram, storage, and power supply since the new consoles came out since their lack of availability had me look elsewhere for my future gaming. I'll probably consider a CPU swap whenever AMD starts hinting at switching from their current socket and GPU in another 2 or so GPU gens. The other stuff will probably be piece meal replaced as sales come up and what not. But certainly don't need to upgrade it every year. It's gonna cost more for more performance but if gaming is your way of coming down at the end of a day then do you.
@@BankoruNo you dont lol. We just lower the settings
@@Bankorulol at this comment! still rocking a 1080ti and can play all games no problem
@@Bankoruif you have the lowest end pc lol
I've been hearing this Pro rumor for the last few months and didnt really believe it would come this soon in the PS5's lifespan. If Digital Foundry is talking about it, then it's actually real.
I think one thing that was sort of missed in the CPU discussion was that...game's haven't really gotten a whole lot more computationally complex, it's seems that CPU optimization has gotten worse. Very similar game systems, crowd systems, inventory management systems, etc. are now running far more poorly in many titles when they are really doing anything crazy or new, which leads me to believe that those titles (this is a regular human phenomenon, you get more power/ease of use/etc., you'll won't commit as many resources to that sector of development since you can just brute force it instead) aren't CPU optimized.
Other than Baldur's Gate 3, which is extremely well designed and an outlier, most of these games that run at 30fps on consoles also run disproportionately worse than other games on high end PCs. Jedi Survivor, Starfield, Redfall, Gotham Knights, and more all exhibit terrible CPU utilization issues that on PC are "solved" by pure brute force. That's not game development, that's just shoving a product onto a machine and hoping it can make for development shortcuts. As such, I think Sony is mostly concerned with their first party lineup, which typically are well optimized for CPU performance and hence...they don't really need all that extra CPU power in PS5 Pro in their eyes, especially if the PSSR has a frame-gen like component.
I stopped reading and dismissed whatever you had to say at "game's haven't".
game... is haven't? game's... what haven't?
@@tim3172 It's silly to dismiss something based on one simple grammatical error (though there are others) as it doesn't diminish someone's ability to critically think. I have Physics/Maths Post-Doc friends who also make grammatical errors in casual environments, unless they go out of their way not to. There are always people smarter than us dude, your assessment of intellect based on such limited information about the OP is niave, a bit of humility goes a long way.
It's quite simple. Draw calls. Modern games with more complex materials and lighting require more draw calls. Modern games also have far more dense environments with a larger amount of meshs/models and longer view distances. Again more draw calls. Draw calls are the biggest killer of cpu performance. There are lot's of clever ways to optimise this which are used but there's only so much you can do.
Looking forward to Mark Cerny’s video presentation on the new machine’s architecture :)
My guess is the Pro will be aimed at consumers wanting to make the most of their 4K HDMI 2.1 displays offering more 4K 120Hz options on the pro console, if you have a 4k 60hz display your probably fine with the standard PS5 also, still going with a 1TB SSD is dissapointing it should be 2TB at least
Upgrade it yourself… 2TB is under 200 bucks… It could be worse… you could be spending $200 for 1TB of proprietary memory on a stick running NVME Gen 3 like XB does!
Base will be 1080p/1440 @ 60fps up to 1800p/4K 30fps. and Pro will be more stable 30 and more consistent 4K 60fps machine (just guess)
@@basketballlife5280 4k native is absolutely useless. Devs will use pssr on pro with min res 1080p or lower.
@@борисрябушкин-з9н i agree thats why we dont see native 4K on the base machine b/c u can make better use of resources when u can upscale to 4K
@@basketballlife5280 Absolutely. On pro at 60 fps min native res 1080p or below with 4k pssr is very good.
31:50 That's exactly what the leaks say. The Pro will have dedicated hardware units for certain RT operations, instead of having the games use the shaders for those.
The choice to stick to the current CPU architecture makes sense and is not related to the amount of die space. It's important to remember that this IS a PS5, it's a better PS5 for sure, but the plan isn't to introduce a new generation or significantly change the landscape. If you had a significantly more powerful CPU in the Pro, current PS5 & Series X owners would be left in the dust with some developers opting to push for 30 fps on base consoles, and 60 fps on the PS5 Pro, which is a bad situation.
Keeping the CPU performance similar across all current-gen consoles ensures that games will continue to run well across all these systems. It's a decision that I feel makes sense. And of course, the CPU can be set to a slightly higher clock speed, which would clean up any CPU-related hiccups that the base consoles might experience. Microsoft is a bit misleading in how they advertise their CPU specs as the 3.8ghz mentioned for the Series X is with SMT disabled, which you would never do in practice as it gives you a higher clock speed but results in a significant drop to overall CPU performance, Sony's specs are with SMT enabled. Taking this into account, it leaves us with 3.4ghz for the Series S, 3.5ghz for the PS5, 3.6ghz for the Series X, and 3.85ghz for the PS5 Pro. Which feels about right.
My expectation is that the PS5 Pro will simply be a PS5 that offers extra bells and whistles, better raytracing, higher resolutions and less drops below 60, but for the most part I would expect the experience to be very similar regardless of whether you're playing on a PS5 or PS5 Pro. This is not a new generation and shouldn't be treated as one.
Why is it a bad situation? Seems pretty logical to me that the most powerful console would get some kind of advantage. It's exactly how it worked last gen too.
Devs would still need to focus on the base consoles first with the bigger install base of that gen anyway.
@@Ayoul People bought into this generation expecting 60 fps for the majority of titles. If the CPU was a massive upgrade on the Pro console, many games would likely target 30 fps on the base console. This is a bad situation because 60 fps should be the standard across all current-gen consoles. Since the CPU has remained largely the same, that's something we won't have to worry about.
I never said the PS5 Pro would not 'get some kind of advantage', nor did I say it wouldn't be 'how it worked last gen too'. In fact, I'm expecting it to be EXACTLY like last gen. Obviously the PS5 Pro will have the best image quality and visual features along with smoothed out frame-rates. But I'm not expecting games to start targeting 30 fps on the base consoles instead of 60, just because the PS5 Pro exists.
If you look at the PS4 Pro, it didn't drastically shift the needle, it was still a PS4 and the vast majority of games ran about the same on both consoles, it would just have better visuals on the Pro along with less dips below 30. I'm expecting the same for the PS5 Pro, because again, it's still a PS5. This is how it should be, and clearly Sony agrees as that is reflected in the decisions they've made for the console. It also allows the next-generation to be a larger, more impressive jump.
If this doesn't run games at 4K60 in Fidelity mode it's pointless
But in a way, it does. If the game already runs at 60, there's a good chance it will be at 4K now. It's just not necessarily going to take something that was 4K30 and make it 4K 60.
You're looking at a couple grand to build a PC that can do that on modern AAA titles, why do people expect a $400 console to be able to do it
“upscaled” 4k 60 💀
If I can get high fidelity at 60 fps, I'll take it any day over the base model.
Other things I like to know is if the PS5 Pro will have a second NVMe slot, what the actual box will be, and how games will actually perform compared to the standard PS5.
General Kenobi! 0:38
Overthinking here has clouded the point.
What did PS4 Pro really amount to? Resolution bump. PSSR alone is a perceptual resolution bump that will probably amount to more… even if you were to take the PS5 standard resolutions as a base PSSR was applied to.
Now… 2x - 4X ray tracing performance? That is a bump in high end visual effects independent of resolution. You’re already doing more than PS4 Pro vs. Standard did.
And both of those individual bumps are not fully taking into account the raw rasterization performance increase you’d see from the additional GPU cores and architecture upgrades.
I think this machine , leveraged correctly, will be a larger perceptual upgrade vs. the last Pro console.
it will still not be most ps5's sold, not even close.
@@xBINARYGODxOf course not given current economic conditions. I can’t wait to see how this improves PSVR2. Lighting effects in VR add a lot to the immersion.
Me watching DF at 2X speed - “that looks pretty smooth for 30fps”
🙄
This was an exciting part of my Tuesday!
12:59
Pretty sure ROG Ally uses a Phoenix based Zen 4 mobile APU. Between ARMA, KSP, Civ and the likes if you make the effort to minimize GPU demand, I suspect you can produce some significant CPU limited performance differences.
It's more likely neither have an iGPU powerful enough for the CPU difference to show very often in more mainstream use scenarios.
PS5 pro with the PS VR2 gonna be awesome
Hopefully. Though Sony nerfed PSVR games on the PS4 Pro. They didn’t want owners of PS4 consoles to be left out. This meant that whilst the PS4 Pro helped on some games it was largely a wasted opportunity.
@@SuperNova-py1ec I had the original PS VR, with the PS4 and the PS4 pro as well. Hopefully a lot of the games already made such as GT7, Horizon COTM, No Man's Sky and RE4 etc will take advantage of the PS5 pro
its not unusual to purchase raw materials for your supplier - its secures your supply
The Wolverine demo will show everyone what the PS5 Pro is about.
PS5 Pro is all about 60fps at 1080p, 30fps at 1440p upscaled to 4k through PSSR.
@fcukugimmeausername I seen the Wolverine leaks. It is going to show what he is.
It’s not PS5 Professional.
It’s PS5 Prosumer
More like PS5 Con-sumer
I mean, saying the hardware is bad for the software seems like a flipped line of thought.
Maybe we should stop accepting Unreal bloating their engine with single-threaded issues since UE3.
I'm gonna be so sad if GTA 6 can't do 60 on PS5 / PS5 pro. It's so hard for me to go back to 30fps these days. And yeah, I know PC is an option - I prefer consoles. 🤷♂
Gta 6 will not run 60fps on PS5 Pro.... Unless sacrificing a lot of image quality and resolution.
No point holding idle hope. Its not in the cards
@@DutchManticore...why?
Listening to the middle guy talk was soooo hard
Very true
There's 3140 games on PS5, not counting PS4 ones backward compatible. 4 of them run at only 30FPS (could be off but it's a very small number around there). While that number will increase, perhaps that's why Sony decided against a new CPU? 40Hz modes are also a very attainable.
shutup bot
@@vegaskidd555 It's a noteworthy point.
They don't want to change the CPU because then it wouldn't be a seamless transition. That's why the CPU is for the most part the same on both series consoles. A new CPU with diff architecture would require a lot more dev time
@@vegaskidd555 you mad?
The PS5 base model box says 8K gaming on it. There is one game that can supposedly run at 8K but as far as I know the machine still cannot output 8K.
It does not say 8K gaming. It just says 8K, because it supports HDMI 2.1, meaning it can technically output an 8K signal.
@@ふぇい-e1oOk, but it literally cannot output 8K in any situation because Sony hasn't enabled it to in the software.
Since I only have a PS4 pro and an Xbox one x.. I’ll be buying the PS5pro on day one.
Get Demon's Souls
@@Doge10YT omg yes
I think spectral refers to frequency domain calculations in this case, using Fourier transform.
Now we know where the room with plants is
💯🤔 PS5 PRO is a Day 1 purchase…..
But for me personally, the PS5 Pro will be the last console I buy for a very very long time, maybe the last modern console I buy ever. Been doing this for 30 years now ever since I was kid. In my late 30s now. The PS5 Pro will do everything I need. Been chasing tech for a long time now.
We all gotta get off the bus sometime. My stop is coming up soon.
😢🥹
Why, you will stop playing?
Love DF videos and their analysis
I’ve heard that AMD is going to do AI upscaling in general and a lot of people guess it will be the AI accelerators on the RDNA3 cards which makes sense. So far they haven’t been used for anything so maybe they were waiting for the console fresh before implementing it.
Alex's facial expressions throughout this were brilliant
Anyone else remember at the PS5's launch when Sony said they didnt have plans for a pro model?
At this point I can’t wait to see Mark Cerny presentation on this new hardware.
What are the new custom hardware they gonna bring in, just like previously they did with their custom SSD, custom hardware decompression, custom co-processor, GPU cache scrubber etc.
I hope we can see a Tensor Core like custom chip so that we can get both AI upscaling like DLSS or XESS and better Ray Tracing quality like Nvidia Ray Reconstruction.
And I also want to know how they manage to reduce memory overhead of the OS and increase allocation for developers to use. Gonna be interesting nonetheless.
Thanks for doing this- I find these interesting , talking about the new tech about to come out in videogames
If it’s an upgrade to image quality, but it still has to upscale to 4k, it’s not an upgrade
Unless it has a very competent ML-based image reconstruction, then you're entering DLSS 2~ style territory, which could be handy in a console.
Could say the same about nvidia's 40 series. Wasn't that big of a jump until u turned on dlss3
This is as exciting as a brick. The only reason I want PS5 is FFVII and I will wait for the PC version.
If Sony announced full retrocompability from PS1 to PS3 including physical copies, I'd buy one tomorrow.
We don't need a Pro, We Need Some Games. Not Just any games, FUN games. JUST MAKE FUN GAMES! They don't need to take 3-4 years to make, we don't need HIGH fidelity we need HIGH fun. Also, how about we unlock the framerate for the thousands of PS4 games that still can't harness the power of the current PS5. Stop wasting people's time.
In my opinion, if costs and power draw involved, it would have been more feasible to have around 25 tflops but with a boost in cpu clock speed..