This was a great demonstration of how you can change the ratio of attack and body with a few small adjustments, bravo! I've got a video where I showed put 5 different snares against my Tama 50th. I also was able to get surprisingly close! I showed them both with and without processing. Processing made them even closer, even though the processing didnt change from one drum to the next.
hitting a snare is multiple stages of sound, the initial attack -> wires + short lived head sustain, and then the lingering shell. wires and short lived head sound can be brought close together, the activated shell sound however will always be individual to each drum. an acro sounds so much thinner and brighter compared to a bell bronze 3mm shell.
For recording purposes two highly dissimilar drums can be tuned to sound pretty close to same, but the things the drummer feels and hears? Not as easy. It’s the small differences the player notices that make people buy a $5k snare, or a custom shop Stratocaster. Recorded tone? Probably not even the player is gonna hear a significant difference vs a basic, good alternative tuned well. These kinda comparos could be a series - ”How close can we get?” Cheers folks!
Agreed- Player experience (which also includes the placebo effect) is certainly a different story but we can also affect that. It's up to the player to decide how valuable that is (and how much of a difference they actually notice). But if you're buying a drum based on a sound you desire, it's so valuable to go through this sort of practice (matching a sound) with the drums you have an other other potential options rather than imagining that the sound is unattainable in the absence of a specific drum. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrumtotally agree. Seeing a very expensive and famous drum makes us look for its greatness in sound. And our brain usually does the looking for very well. Also the right/great drum for you often doesn’t cost all that much. Thanks for a very insightful reply.
I had 2 Tama bell brass clones both made of Deluth shells. I didn’t think either snare was worth keeping around. Heavier shell doesn’t always mean better. I much prefer my black beauty and I’m not blowing out my back and knees hauling it around 😆
Would have been curious to see if a 6.5" Deep Acro would have gotten that touch more body that the Tama BB has. Overall, the Acro got close, but the body in its tone just isn't where the Tama's is. Is that body worth an extra $4-5k? I don't think so, but the Tama BB lovers out there will say it is.
Knowing what we know about center dot heads and how added mass in the middle of the head affects tone, is it possible that similar effects could be achieved through a similar drumhead? There are all sorts of variables within experimenting with before swapping out the drum itself.
@@SoundsLikeADrum True! Head choice is a huge part of the sound. The center dot head is most likely the reason for the Tama having a thicker attack in this video.
Cool and practical experiment! Gotta say though, at 6:30ish before the internal muffle it replicated the Tama the most? Was just a bit higher in tone. The internal muffle to my ears really change the character of it too much. Would have been fun to see what the difference would have been showing us alternate options of muffling maybe?
I’m curious! I love the way drums are presented and played on this channel, is there anywhere I can go to hear some music that Cody and/or the bands that he has played with/written with as well?
Why does the kick sound different (fuller) when you play the Tama? Is it reflection off the snare mic? It happened every time you went from one snare to the other.
Put simply...the heads of the snare and bass drum are likely harmonically sympathetic, but the added mass and depth of the Tama results in a fuller sound from the bass drum, at least while the snares are on generally. I have my 22x18 and Pearl Tico 14x6.5 3mm Free Floater tuned to octaves of A: 55hz reso/110 batter, Snare 220 batter with the reso up a major third at 277. With the wires disengaged there's not as much discernible resonance, but when the wires are engaged the bass drum sounds like a cannon. Running an Emperor X over an Ambassador Hazy and a Powerstroke 3 CS Black Dot over an Aquarian Regulator. I know you guys aren't much into frequency tuning, but wanted to relay my experience regardless. The Tama Bell Brass and my Pearl Tico Signature are pretty similar in construction.
Fantastic video, as usual. I'm curious though, Acrolite has become a generic term for so many different variations for the snare over the years. You used an 8 lug version but how old was it? Was it an early iteration with the chrome over cast brass rims? I'm only guessing but it sounded like it is a steel rim snare. If so, I wonder what you could have done with the brass rims? Also, can you explain what the paytreeon? I hear about it a lot.
Haha, right? In truth, all drums have a far wider range of sonic capabilities than people tend to give them credit for and that's part of the message of this episode. Some people will dig their heels in, resisting the idea that two drums can have sonic overlap. Others will choose to learn and grow. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrum it’s facts though. If studio engineers picked the tama over something like an acrolite (which I’m sure they tested various other snares when they landed on the bell brass) it says everything.
Sure, but fixation on the drum (and the legendary status) rather than the sound creates a massive blindspot. Still, this is aside from the point of the episode. And your opinion of the sound being “not even close,” while being something you’re certainly entitled to, is still subjective opinion rather than objective fact.
@@FourTwentyOGHmmm…. did you know that studio engineers have landed on Acrolites and Supraphonics so much more often than a bell brass it’s not even close to a fair comparison? One(the Ludwig) is literally the most recorded snare drum in history, the other(tama) is on a handful of rock records. If I’m being generous to the tama, it’d work out that engineers/ producers approximately chose the bell brass once for every thousand times they chose an aluminum Ludwig. Not trying to put you down or anything, just pointing out these facts because it seemed as if you weren’t aware. You can never have enough accurate information, and everyone’s gotta learn somewhere. Feel free to research my statements and I’m sure you’ll find unanimously that what I’ve stated is factual. Anyways… Take it sleazy
Recorded sound vs. hearing and feeling the snare sound while playing - these are completely two different worlds. That's why snares like Tama Bell Brass gained high reputation among musicians.
Thanks! Based on your comment, your focus is still on a drum and not the sound that was made with a drum. There's placebo in play because of your impression of the drum rather than focus on the sound. The same issue exists cymbals, yet many cymbalsmiths can clone highly coveted, vintage cymbals at a fraction of the price.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Using headphones from 9:17 to 9:29 you can hear the difference. I'm not worshiping the Bell Brass, but they're quite different. The sound of the Tama is drier and its harmonics also make it different. Of course this is subjective and in no way did I want to tarnish your always excellent work.
My favorite part of the comments is every bell brass apologist/fan boy losing their minds because they can’t stand the implication of a bell brass being replicated. Y’all insecure about spending so much on a piece of equipment that you have to reassure yourselves it’s worth it by poo pooing other people’s suggestions. Regardless, THIS type of video should be essential viewing for drummers because it highlights how much of our opinions of sound and quality are based on perception and biases. Instead of freaking out that someone is attacking the “legendary and valuable” bell brass maybe think of how cool it is that this channel lowers the barriers to entry for all drummers by highlighting that you don’t need a specific instrument to get a really great sound. 80-90% of people wouldn’t even be able to pick a bell brass out of a three drum line up in a blind test. Plus the majority of what most people associate as “the bell brass sound” is incredibly talented engineering and mixing.
Recorded sound vs. hearing and feeling the snare sound while playing - these are completely two different worlds. Have you ever played Tama Bell Brass?
@@betulaobscuraI’ve played multiple bell brass snares including the Tama, the feel you’re talking about comes mostly from the fact that the shell is exponentially thicker. You can get that “feel” from almost any thicker higher density metal shells. Yeah of course a 1.2mm Ludwig “whatever” Phonic won’t feel the same as a 3-5mm heavy metal snare, but you can get that from a $800-900 DW Knurled Steel or $1000 Pearl Reference Brass Shell for example.
@@betulaobscura I'd love to know what said details are: is it the internal muffler, rolling snare wires, shell hardware, bearing edges, something else?
If we were just providing entertainment rather than focusing on education (plus inspiration to conduct your own experiments) then that would certainly make a lot of sense. We’ve done a lot with this Bell Brass snare over the course of the last couple months here so we’ll likely save further experiments for our Patreon.
@@SoundsLikeADrum that's cool. I really appreciate what you are doing and I learned a lot from you. In this video I feel that you really wanted to make the point of how close 2 drums can be that you almost did what you are trying to avoid. Educating to the point of convincing rather than letting people figure it out... I was waiting for the drum beat in the end to be also played by the bell brass so kind of to do an apples to apples thing... But again, I really love what you are doing and it was an educating video nonetheless so thanks :)
Hmm. I think many understand that most any snare can be tuned to the same pitch as another. They do not sound the same to me, the acro is thinner and tinnier sounding, and owning an acro and Bell Brass myself, I can say they feel and project in a very different way. I’ve noticed a pattern emerging in the videos of click bait and switch tactics that seem to rely heavily on the confirmation bias this channel has that everything is tuning. Just my take.
We would agree that many understand that pitch is not unique to a drum. Our focus was on the overall sound, not the general pitch (that was only step one). Respectfully, it seems like you're missing the point here though and, ultimately, this video just might not have been for you. What you call "click bait and switch tactics" really comes from judging a book (video) by it's cover (title and thumbnail). That's the tip of the iceberg and it should always be understood that there's more to the content of the video than simply the title and thumbnail image. It's ironic that you should state that we have confirmation bias that everything is tuning when we're simply pushing back on the idea that everything is the drum and, rather than just make statements, we've backed them up with a multitude of demonstrations. We've shown multiple times over how people listen with their eyes and are subject to the placebo created even by the simple knowledge of drum specs. For what it's worth, we don't believe that tuning is everything (we've demonstrated this as well), but we aim to encourage our viewers to explore tuning to the fullest extent because it doesn't cost anything. We appreciate your take and hopefully you have some greater insight into what we're doing here now that we've told you.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I understand what you are shooting for. I’ve seen many of your videos, and very much appreciate sharing knowledge. What I’m specifically referring to are the “gotcha” moments I’ve seen popping up lately like in another recent video where you informed us after the fact that you had been using other snares while using the same visuals. I prefer an approach where the information is given in an open and honest way without using gimmicks, and the viewer can make up their own mind. As far as my main point with the sound, well, the whole deal with a Bell Brass is body at any tuning pitch, which is actually demonstrated in your very video. No matter the pitch, a shell like a Bell Brass has an underlying “ooomph” to it that no matter the tuning cannot be achieved with an acrolite. Also, due to the added lows in a bell brass, the live sound in a room will project a fuller sound to the audience due to lower sound waves combining with the “crack” that ANY snare can get. Lower sound waves are longer and travel farther. Due to the proximity effect inherent with a microphone, this will not be as noticeable in a video. Many of your videos seem to try and drill home the point that almost all can be achieved by tuning, and by not giving adequate time to these other factors, I do believe it shows a confirmation bias. It is your channel and you can run it however you want, I just do not quite consider it fair and balanced, especially when having to recently resort to the gimmicks.
@@ptrickjw8840 We've experimented quite a bit with creative methods of demonstration (we've gotten some of the most positive feedback on our recent videos) throughout the years. When it comes to topics like this and the mental block that a lot of people have when it comes to even experimenting with what we showed here, a creative and fresh approach really is key. Some people will dig their heels in and we understand that. Not everyone is going to get the message or agree with the approach and we appreciate that. This video probably wasn't for you.
![Tom Reso[lution] Tuning | A Pattern of Change](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dHCCCFE3xPU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tom Reso[lution] Tuning | A Pattern of Change](/img/tr.png)
Recorded sound vs. hearing and feeling the snare sound while playing - these are completely two different worlds.
This was a great demonstration of how you can change the ratio of attack and body with a few small adjustments, bravo! I've got a video where I showed put 5 different snares against my Tama 50th. I also was able to get surprisingly close! I showed them both with and without processing. Processing made them even closer, even though the processing didnt change from one drum to the next.
Beautiful sounding snare
More proof I have 15 more snare drums than I need. :-).
hitting a snare is multiple stages of sound, the initial attack -> wires + short lived head sustain, and then the lingering shell. wires and short lived head sound can be brought close together, the activated shell sound however will always be individual to each drum. an acro sounds so much thinner and brighter compared to a bell bronze 3mm shell.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
For recording purposes two highly dissimilar drums can be tuned to sound pretty close to same, but the things the drummer feels and hears? Not as easy.
It’s the small differences the player notices that make people buy a $5k snare, or a custom shop Stratocaster. Recorded tone? Probably not even the player is gonna hear a significant difference vs a basic, good alternative tuned well.
These kinda comparos could be a series - ”How close can we get?” Cheers folks!
Agreed- Player experience (which also includes the placebo effect) is certainly a different story but we can also affect that. It's up to the player to decide how valuable that is (and how much of a difference they actually notice). But if you're buying a drum based on a sound you desire, it's so valuable to go through this sort of practice (matching a sound) with the drums you have an other other potential options rather than imagining that the sound is unattainable in the absence of a specific drum. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrumtotally agree. Seeing a very expensive and famous drum makes us look for its greatness in sound. And our brain usually does the looking for very well.
Also the right/great drum for you often doesn’t cost all that much. Thanks for a very insightful reply.
Kind of like when you think your brass cymbal sounds awesome, and then.....
This is usually what I'm looking for and yeah, lower the snare head is what I did recently to make it nicer.
Love the digital bath snippet. Abe Cunningham is the man.
It was originally played on the OCDP vented snare[s] - not Tama.
I had 2 Tama bell brass clones both made of Deluth shells. I didn’t think either snare was worth keeping around. Heavier shell doesn’t always mean better. I much prefer my black beauty and I’m not blowing out my back and knees hauling it around 😆
Ever tried making another drum sound like your Black Beauty?
Totally agreed! Love this! One challenge: Do this metal to wood or vice versa. 🤓 TY
Glad to hear it! Regarding metal vs. wood, that's essentially what we did here: th-cam.com/video/LdfVXlY1xIE/w-d-xo.html
@@SoundsLikeADrum Superb! Thank you! 🙏🏻
Digital bath ❤
Good ear!
Classic ❤
kudos
Would have been curious to see if a 6.5" Deep Acro would have gotten that touch more body that the Tama BB has. Overall, the Acro got close, but the body in its tone just isn't where the Tama's is. Is that body worth an extra $4-5k? I don't think so, but the Tama BB lovers out there will say it is.
Knowing what we know about center dot heads and how added mass in the middle of the head affects tone, is it possible that similar effects could be achieved through a similar drumhead? There are all sorts of variables within experimenting with before swapping out the drum itself.
@@SoundsLikeADrum True! Head choice is a huge part of the sound. The center dot head is most likely the reason for the Tama having a thicker attack in this video.
Cool and practical experiment!
Gotta say though, at 6:30ish before the internal muffle it replicated the Tama the most? Was just a bit higher in tone. The internal muffle to my ears really change the character of it too much.
Would have been fun to see what the difference would have been showing us alternate options of muffling maybe?
How can we share our own experiments with you guys?
I’m curious! I love the way drums are presented and played on this channel, is there anywhere I can go to hear some music that Cody and/or the bands that he has played with/written with as well?
Thanks and yes, in fact you can hear his playing on a new album from Justin Garcia entitled De El Vacío, streaming everywhere.
@@SoundsLikeADrum fantastic! I’ll listen while I work today 🙏🏻
just got to 2:50 and i had to sit up straight in my chair. So excited to see where things go from here
oh god that rim shot on the bell brass. 🤤
How much is it worth to ya? 😉
honestly I like acrolite better and I’d match the bell brass to it, not the other way around haha
Why does the kick sound different (fuller) when you play the Tama? Is it reflection off the snare mic? It happened every time you went from one snare to the other.
Honestly not sure but that's something that I picked up on when doing the edit. Maybe Cody is messing with me...
Put simply...the heads of the snare and bass drum are likely harmonically sympathetic, but the added mass and depth of the Tama results in a fuller sound from the bass drum, at least while the snares are on generally.
I have my 22x18 and Pearl Tico 14x6.5 3mm Free Floater tuned to octaves of A: 55hz reso/110 batter, Snare 220 batter with the reso up a major third at 277. With the wires disengaged there's not as much discernible resonance, but when the wires are engaged the bass drum sounds like a cannon. Running an Emperor X over an Ambassador Hazy and a Powerstroke 3 CS Black Dot over an Aquarian Regulator.
I know you guys aren't much into frequency tuning, but wanted to relay my experience regardless. The Tama Bell Brass and my Pearl Tico Signature are pretty similar in construction.
Fantastic video, as usual. I'm curious though, Acrolite has become a generic term for so many different variations for the snare over the years. You used an 8 lug version but how old was it? Was it an early iteration with the chrome over cast brass rims? I'm only guessing but it sounded like it is a steel rim snare. If so, I wonder what you could have done with the brass rims? Also, can you explain what the paytreeon? I hear about it a lot.
is there something acro can't do?
Haha, right? In truth, all drums have a far wider range of sonic capabilities than people tend to give them credit for and that's part of the message of this episode. Some people will dig their heels in, resisting the idea that two drums can have sonic overlap. Others will choose to learn and grow. Cheers!
Not even close sorry. There is a reason the tama gained its legendary status among some of the best drummers.
The legend is getting your way…
@@SoundsLikeADrum it’s facts though. If studio engineers picked the tama over something like an acrolite (which I’m sure they tested various other snares when they landed on the bell brass) it says everything.
Sure, but fixation on the drum (and the legendary status) rather than the sound creates a massive blindspot. Still, this is aside from the point of the episode. And your opinion of the sound being “not even close,” while being something you’re certainly entitled to, is still subjective opinion rather than objective fact.
@@FourTwentyOGHmmm…. did you know that studio engineers have landed on Acrolites and Supraphonics so much more often than a bell brass it’s not even close to a fair comparison? One(the Ludwig) is literally the most recorded snare drum in history, the other(tama) is on a handful of rock records. If I’m being generous to the tama, it’d work out that engineers/ producers approximately chose the bell brass once for every thousand times they chose an aluminum Ludwig. Not trying to put you down or anything, just pointing out these facts because it seemed as if you weren’t aware. You can never have enough accurate information, and everyone’s gotta learn somewhere. Feel free to research my statements and I’m sure you’ll find unanimously that what I’ve stated is factual. Anyways… Take it sleazy
Recorded sound vs. hearing and feeling the snare sound while playing - these are completely two different worlds. That's why snares like Tama Bell Brass gained high reputation among musicians.
2:22 channellin' your inner Gadd
A little Teen Spirit at the end, eh?👍
Just a little fun...
It sounds great. Similar to a Bell Brass? Absolutely not... But it sounds great.
Thanks! Based on your comment, your focus is still on a drum and not the sound that was made with a drum. There's placebo in play because of your impression of the drum rather than focus on the sound. The same issue exists cymbals, yet many cymbalsmiths can clone highly coveted, vintage cymbals at a fraction of the price.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Using headphones from 9:17 to 9:29 you can hear the difference. I'm not worshiping the Bell Brass, but they're quite different. The sound of the Tama is drier and its harmonics also make it different. Of course this is subjective and in no way did I want to tarnish your always excellent work.
Point taken … you don’t need a bell brass to get a close sound to the bell brass sound. But a bell brass is such a cool drum to own. 😊😊😊
My favorite part of the comments is every bell brass apologist/fan boy losing their minds because they can’t stand the implication of a bell brass being replicated. Y’all insecure about spending so much on a piece of equipment that you have to reassure yourselves it’s worth it by poo pooing other people’s suggestions.
Regardless, THIS type of video should be essential viewing for drummers because it highlights how much of our opinions of sound and quality are based on perception and biases.
Instead of freaking out that someone is attacking the “legendary and valuable” bell brass maybe think of how cool it is that this channel lowers the barriers to entry for all drummers by highlighting that you don’t need a specific instrument to get a really great sound.
80-90% of people wouldn’t even be able to pick a bell brass out of a three drum line up in a blind test. Plus the majority of what most people associate as “the bell brass sound” is incredibly talented engineering and mixing.
Recorded sound vs. hearing and feeling the snare sound while playing - these are completely two different worlds. Have you ever played Tama Bell Brass?
@@betulaobscuraI’ve played multiple bell brass snares including the Tama, the feel you’re talking about comes mostly from the fact that the shell is exponentially thicker. You can get that “feel” from almost any thicker higher density metal shells. Yeah of course a 1.2mm Ludwig “whatever” Phonic won’t feel the same as a 3-5mm heavy metal snare, but you can get that from a $800-900 DW Knurled Steel or $1000 Pearl Reference Brass Shell for example.
@@dimitarstoyanov6615 The Devil is in the details...
@@dimitarstoyanov6615 The Devil is in the details.
@@betulaobscura I'd love to know what said details are: is it the internal muffler, rolling snare wires, shell hardware, bearing edges, something else?
I think this would've been even more interesting (more than it already is) had the heads been the identical.
Okay, but you understand specifically why we didn't do that, right?
I agree. The point you are making is cool but I think it would be cool to explore and experiment further, allowing people to make their own conclusion
If we were just providing entertainment rather than focusing on education (plus inspiration to conduct your own experiments) then that would certainly make a lot of sense. We’ve done a lot with this Bell Brass snare over the course of the last couple months here so we’ll likely save further experiments for our Patreon.
@@SoundsLikeADrum that's cool. I really appreciate what you are doing and I learned a lot from you.
In this video I feel that you really wanted to make the point of how close 2 drums can be that you almost did what you are trying to avoid. Educating to the point of convincing rather than letting people figure it out...
I was waiting for the drum beat in the end to be also played by the bell brass so kind of to do an apples to apples thing...
But again, I really love what you are doing and it was an educating video nonetheless so thanks :)
You said so in your video. Great work guys! @@SoundsLikeADrum
Hmm. I think many understand that most any snare can be tuned to the same pitch as another. They do not sound the same to me, the acro is thinner and tinnier sounding, and owning an acro and Bell Brass myself, I can say they feel and project in a very different way.
I’ve noticed a pattern emerging in the videos of click bait and switch tactics that seem to rely heavily on the confirmation bias this channel has that everything is tuning. Just my take.
We would agree that many understand that pitch is not unique to a drum. Our focus was on the overall sound, not the general pitch (that was only step one). Respectfully, it seems like you're missing the point here though and, ultimately, this video just might not have been for you. What you call "click bait and switch tactics" really comes from judging a book (video) by it's cover (title and thumbnail). That's the tip of the iceberg and it should always be understood that there's more to the content of the video than simply the title and thumbnail image.
It's ironic that you should state that we have confirmation bias that everything is tuning when we're simply pushing back on the idea that everything is the drum and, rather than just make statements, we've backed them up with a multitude of demonstrations. We've shown multiple times over how people listen with their eyes and are subject to the placebo created even by the simple knowledge of drum specs. For what it's worth, we don't believe that tuning is everything (we've demonstrated this as well), but we aim to encourage our viewers to explore tuning to the fullest extent because it doesn't cost anything.
We appreciate your take and hopefully you have some greater insight into what we're doing here now that we've told you.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I understand what you are shooting for. I’ve seen many of your videos, and very much appreciate sharing knowledge.
What I’m specifically referring to are the “gotcha” moments I’ve seen popping up lately like in another recent video where you informed us after the fact that you had been using other snares while using the same visuals.
I prefer an approach where the information is given in an open and honest way without using gimmicks, and the viewer can make up their own mind.
As far as my main point with the sound, well, the whole deal with a Bell Brass is body at any tuning pitch, which is actually demonstrated in your very video. No matter the pitch, a shell like a Bell Brass has an underlying “ooomph” to it that no matter the tuning cannot be achieved with an acrolite. Also, due to the added lows in a bell brass, the live sound in a room will project a fuller sound to the audience due to lower sound waves combining with the “crack” that ANY snare can get. Lower sound waves are longer and travel farther. Due to the proximity effect inherent with a microphone, this will not be as noticeable in a video.
Many of your videos seem to try and drill home the point that almost all can be achieved by tuning, and by not giving adequate time to these other factors, I do believe it shows a confirmation bias. It is your channel and you can run it however you want, I just do not quite consider it fair and balanced, especially when having to recently resort to the gimmicks.
@@ptrickjw8840 We've experimented quite a bit with creative methods of demonstration (we've gotten some of the most positive feedback on our recent videos) throughout the years. When it comes to topics like this and the mental block that a lot of people have when it comes to even experimenting with what we showed here, a creative and fresh approach really is key. Some people will dig their heels in and we understand that. Not everyone is going to get the message or agree with the approach and we appreciate that. This video probably wasn't for you.
First comment!