Thanks so much for the kind words! As you can tell, we're quite passionate about music and drums. We decided to start this channel simply because no one seemed to be giving adequate attention to such a massively important topic. Cheers! -Ben
I'd like to share something I realized fairly recently. I, like many drummers, have heard that tom heads should be tuned to the same pitch for maximum resonance. This may assume the same heads on top and bottom because if, like me, you use a thicker batter head, it will require more tension (just like a thicker guitar string) to achieve the same pitch. I never knew why I preferred the sound of the reso head tuned ~2-3 semitones higher, but it could be that it results in both heads being roughly the same tension. I'm not sure if that physically results in maximal resonance, but it does give me the quality of tone that I prefer.
That's a very interesting observation! This is a tricky one because there's more at play than just tension, pitch, and mass (the behavior of the specific model of drumhead dependent on the film characteristics would be an example of just one of the often ignored yet significant factors). This is one of the reasons why we discourage one-size-fits-all statements like "unison tuning (or equal tension) achieves maximum resonance" It's an oversimplification that can easily be overcome by relatively easy experimentation that accounts for all of the variables present. At the end of the day, trust your ears! Cheers!
Tune to avoid snare buzz thats what I learned ..... all my snares around 195- 205 hz on the TuneBot Generally , small toms bottom 3rd up for higher tones, larger bottoms 3rd down for lower tones works for me Good Video
Interesting! Ever tried to embrace snare buzz as a natural characteristic of the sound of a set of drums inclusive of a snare drum with the wires on? There are a lot of options out there and quite a few ways to affect/control sympathetic snare buzz.
Great content as always! I usually tune my reso heads higher than my batters, but I found with my 13” rack tom (despite changing both heads) it sounded “flat”, so I tuned the reso almost equal to the batter head, and that solved the problem. As you say, experimentation is the key. Thanks guys.
You experienced the „middle tom syndrome“. For some odd reason, drum manufacturers started making toms deeper too when making them larger in diameter, which is unique to drum sets (check timpani, conga, bongo, timbale etc, all same depth trough the series). The diameter is driving the pitch, while the depth of a drum is changing the sound character, where deeper means more muffled, less tonal, less sustain. So to compensate the lack of tone when compared to the smaller (and shallower, thus more tonal, less percussive sounding) tom, you can either muffle the smaller one or tune the bigger one more resonant, giving it at least a bit more sustain. Generally spoken, the larger the diameter, the more attack a drum has, so smaller drums will have less attack already, even when the same depth; now making the large tom even deeper is not the wisest choice but heck, it looks odd to most drummers would they be the same… ;))
I've tended towards tuning my heads down a bit over the course of my career. Recently I've been tuning them higher and using some dampening. I find it does give me a little bit more attack so I can cut through the mix a little better in live situations. to me it seems as you get closer to matching the pitch the drum seems to fight itself a bit until they're in unison where they start to sing a bit more. I completely agree that you need to experiment. I think the tuning of the drums is the biggest factor in how good they sound, but head and shell choice is also an important part of your final sound. I thought it was hilarious how happy you got when the reso was tuned up a whole step 😄
Have to say my favorite tunings through my headphones were the two examples on either side of unison. Both had the most character to me. Great examples all-over
Thanks for the kind words! A major 2nd is a linear intervallic relationship based on pitch, which works quite well in this context for the sake of consistency/reliability. Frequency measurement (in hertz) isn't linear in that the difference between a C3 and a D3 (a major 2nd) is 16Hz but from E3 to F#3 (also a major 2nd) it's 20Hz. That's why focusing on the frequency, while precise, can be quite misleading if we're talking about intervals. Hope this helps! -Ben
With Hz, the *relationship* between the two frequencies is the same for a specific interval: an octave is always half resp. double the frequency (1:2 or 2:1 relationship). For a major 2nd, it's about 8:9 or 9:8.
I find using a slightly pre muffled head like a powerstroke 3 or Aquarian studio x on toms 12" and smaller with a tuning lower than the batter head sounds great. I tune the batter head for feel and the reso for the pitch/decay
But that is probably because any time I have used a standard reso head on a drum with a higher tuning it has to much sustain and unwanted overtones no matter how much muffling I use. So I typically just play concert toms
Let it be known that the more you experiment and record yourself, the more you will start to notice these differences, and one day I swear, you will say with your own face hole: “Wow I can’t believe I didn’t notice that before… it’s so obvious!” Such is our eternal curse as musicians.
Wow, I know that was intended a bit as a joke but it must be rooted in something he's said/done. We hope that this sort of thing doesn't make anyone furious but. What could possibly be wrong with experimentation and the resulting pattern recognition? Unless you don't actually want people to learn and improve at their craft, it seems like this should be right up there with any other sort of practice.
Oh, minor third above for me! What I’m hearing is the higher the reso, the longer the sustain (which makes sense). Interestingly the fundamental tone didn’t change much, though I’d be curious what we’d hear if you repeated this with a mic further away vs a close mic.
It's actually a bit more complicated, the most sustain is unison, then tighter makes the batter head more audible while looser makes the reso head more audible, both lower the sustain. The "pitch bend" effect also changes, downward for looser reso heads, upward for tighter reso heads.
An important element to keep in mind here is that unison does not always yield the most resonance or sustain. A key factor involved in this is the weight of the batter vs. reso head. Room acoustics and shell dimensions also play a role. That's why, generally speaking, references to a unison providing the most of anything simply due to the interval tend to be inaccurate. For what it's worth, I placed an emphasis on the stereo pair rather than the close mic for this demonstration to ensure that the tunings and overall tones were being adequately demonstrated rather than it all being about the batter head via the close mic.
Sorry, there is never an upward pitch bend with drums. It's always down since the stick attack (at high volume) increases tension at the beginning. Upward pitch bend would sound akin to an (upward) Chinese opera gong.
I would like to see experiment with the evans db one heads. I have them and love them for practicing at home. But id like to get the best sound out of them. For example the best tone I have achieved on the bass drum, was with an old batter head on the reso side
Since you've already got these heads (and we don't), you're actually in a far better position to conduct experiments that will yield the most beneficial results. It sounds like you've already experimented with the bass drum. Keep going and try out similar options with the toms and see what you can get with the snare drum. Cheers!
Hey guys, love the channel! Have you ever made a video about tuning toms that hang on mounts? I use a Pearl Optimount system. I tune my 12" batter & reso off the kit, then when I mount it, it completely changed. Even readings on the tune bot ar wildly different. Any thoughts or advice?
Hey there! Glad to hear that you're enjoying the channel. We've covered the impact of different mounts (specifically the Pearl Optimount vs. snare basket) in the past. This is an old one but still a relevant demo: th-cam.com/video/GnUz9LM--lQ/w-d-xo.html
@@EvanLikesDrums You couldn’t find a mounting system that I have not tried. Any type of RIMS mount or the Pearl ISS mounts work great, but the length of the tom arm that you use, both the part that attaches to the drum/mount AND the part that attaches to the stand or rack… both those lengths make a MASSIVE difference in the amount of resonance you get out of a drum, so you can use both of those lengths to get the sustain that you want. Personally I do not like any mount that lets the drums bounce up and down a whole lot… drives me nuts.
Ao contrário, os tambores estão afinados. O que pode ser confundido com problemas relacionados à entonação é resultado dos diferentes intervalos de afinação entre as duas peles.
@SoundsLikeADrum Pare de interpretar tambores individualmente, eles precisam funcionar em conjunto, essa era a ideia de quem um dia inventou de juntá-los! 😁
Talvez você seja novo em nosso canal, nesse caso, damos as boas-vindas a você! Parte de fornecer um recurso educacional, como o que construímos aqui, envolve focar em elementos específicos (potencialmente em um nível muito detalhado) e então considerar tudo no contexto da bateria e da música como um todo. Esse é um elemento-chave que está presente em todo o nosso canal. Então, embora possamos ter usado o exemplo de experimentar a relação intervalar entre batter e reso neste tambor de 12" como o ponto focal do episódio, dificilmente é às custas dos contextos percussivos e/ou musicais maiores. Obrigado e, novamente, bem-vindo!
Guarnatee, that snare stand mounted tom is losing resonance across the entire drum both head and shell with the reso head being affected majorily. Make that your next video.
Well of course the mount is affecting the resonance- that's true regardless of mount. As for the resonance being "affected majorly," we'd have to disagree. The use of the TnR isolation mounts on the snare basket provide quite a bit of spring, allowing for the drum and heads to resonate far more than if the drum was just sitting on the bare snare basket. We've addressed this in early videos but it might be worth revisiting since there's clearly still some skepticism. All of that said, this isn't so much of a factor in what's being demonstrated here because the mounting method was a constant, not a variable. Thanks for watching!
Sadly since you use a close mic on the batter, the difference we can hear is rather subtle, and the main advantage of a warm tuning - bottom (preferably a third) higher tuned than the batter, which is that it gives you overtones and octave below the fundamental tone, is lost without overhead mic. This also explains why most drummers think tuning does not matter, bc the close mic is so dominant on how the drums sound recorded, the art of tuning kinda is lost for most. Would have loved this video with only room mics, but who are we kidding… drums are not really acoustic instruments, we have the mics closed by default. Sigh….
Ah, but just because you see a microphone doesn't mean you know the mix, right? The batter head microphone was barely in the mix (just enough to ensure adequate acoustic representation). The heavy lifting from what you're hearing is being done with the two distance microphones. Don't let your eyes fool you... Any chance this is Stefan?
@@SoundsLikeADrumwhen this was recorded with room mic, it is odd that the difference is still so subtle. Doing this tuning changes live in person with customers in the same room, is usually eye opening and way less subtle than this. Would you agree? Maybe it is the snare stand that already eats a lot sustain, the rather high tuning to start with, dunno. Oh and yes, it is me, Stefan. Sorry, usuall I start with praising your videos before telling you how you did it all wrong :) but here I was like „hey cool, I will love this video“ - and then I was rather disappointed by the subtlety of the results. Audible, yes, but by far not what I would have expected from my live experiences. Why do you think this is?! My go-to tuning is usually batter as low as possible while still giving you a well defined sound (hand warm…) while tuning bottom the same and then going a quarter turn higher, which would be your major third I guess…
What you're describing in terms of difference is the primary reason why we recommend that our viewers conduct these experiments themselves. The multitude of factors at play in room acoustics alone are enough to justify that. Even still, you're comparing an audio recording to in-person experience and that, in and of itself, presents another significant variable to justify the value of self-guided experimentation. I was surprised to see a comment from you here after the rather disrespectful email that you sent a while back. Hopefully you were just having bad day. ✌️
Man.. this is the best educational material for drummers out there..
Thank you so much!
By far, the smartest drum channel.
Autistic detail, it's great
Thanks so much for the kind words! As you can tell, we're quite passionate about music and drums. We decided to start this channel simply because no one seemed to be giving adequate attention to such a massively important topic. Cheers! -Ben
I'd like to share something I realized fairly recently. I, like many drummers, have heard that tom heads should be tuned to the same pitch for maximum resonance. This may assume the same heads on top and bottom because if, like me, you use a thicker batter head, it will require more tension (just like a thicker guitar string) to achieve the same pitch. I never knew why I preferred the sound of the reso head tuned ~2-3 semitones higher, but it could be that it results in both heads being roughly the same tension. I'm not sure if that physically results in maximal resonance, but it does give me the quality of tone that I prefer.
That's a very interesting observation! This is a tricky one because there's more at play than just tension, pitch, and mass (the behavior of the specific model of drumhead dependent on the film characteristics would be an example of just one of the often ignored yet significant factors). This is one of the reasons why we discourage one-size-fits-all statements like "unison tuning (or equal tension) achieves maximum resonance" It's an oversimplification that can easily be overcome by relatively easy experimentation that accounts for all of the variables present. At the end of the day, trust your ears! Cheers!
Tune to avoid snare buzz thats what I learned ..... all my snares around 195- 205 hz on the TuneBot
Generally , small toms bottom 3rd up for higher tones, larger bottoms 3rd down for lower tones works for me
Good Video
Interesting! Ever tried to embrace snare buzz as a natural characteristic of the sound of a set of drums inclusive of a snare drum with the wires on? There are a lot of options out there and quite a few ways to affect/control sympathetic snare buzz.
Great content as always! I usually tune my reso heads higher than my batters, but I found with my 13” rack tom (despite changing both heads) it sounded “flat”, so I tuned the reso almost equal to the batter head, and that solved the problem. As you say, experimentation is the key. Thanks guys.
You experienced the „middle tom syndrome“. For some odd reason, drum manufacturers started making toms deeper too when making them larger in diameter, which is unique to drum sets (check timpani, conga, bongo, timbale etc, all same depth trough the series). The diameter is driving the pitch, while the depth of a drum is changing the sound character, where deeper means more muffled, less tonal, less sustain. So to compensate the lack of tone when compared to the smaller (and shallower, thus more tonal, less percussive sounding) tom, you can either muffle the smaller one or tune the bigger one more resonant, giving it at least a bit more sustain.
Generally spoken, the larger the diameter, the more attack a drum has, so smaller drums will have less attack already, even when the same depth; now making the large tom even deeper is not the wisest choice but heck, it looks odd to most drummers would they be the same… ;))
uncanny valley: i was in my rehearsel room doing tuning thingies 2 hours ago, asking myself if you guys have a video about reso impact. Much love
they had an extensive video on that years ago. this is more like a closer look
I've tended towards tuning my heads down a bit over the course of my career. Recently I've been tuning them higher and using some dampening. I find it does give me a little bit more attack so I can cut through the mix a little better in live situations. to me it seems as you get closer to matching the pitch the drum seems to fight itself a bit until they're in unison where they start to sing a bit more. I completely agree that you need to experiment. I think the tuning of the drums is the biggest factor in how good they sound, but head and shell choice is also an important part of your final sound.
I thought it was hilarious how happy you got when the reso was tuned up a whole step 😄
Always great stuff!
Thanks!
Have to say my favorite tunings through my headphones were the two examples on either side of unison. Both had the most character to me. Great examples all-over
I would love to see a video comparison using mesh heads as resos and concert toms (and regular toms)!!
Are you able to do the whole experiment again but with the tom mic on the resonant side?
Any particular reason why? The close mic was barely in the mix here and it remained a constant throughout.
Really great video!
Whatever would an example of a major 2nd above be in HZ. You guys have the best drum channel.
Thanks for the kind words! A major 2nd is a linear intervallic relationship based on pitch, which works quite well in this context for the sake of consistency/reliability. Frequency measurement (in hertz) isn't linear in that the difference between a C3 and a D3 (a major 2nd) is 16Hz but from E3 to F#3 (also a major 2nd) it's 20Hz. That's why focusing on the frequency, while precise, can be quite misleading if we're talking about intervals. Hope this helps! -Ben
With Hz, the *relationship* between the two frequencies is the same for a specific interval: an octave is always half resp. double the frequency (1:2 or 2:1 relationship). For a major 2nd, it's about 8:9 or 9:8.
Kind of like a hammer-on or hammer-off of two note intervals or one note? Can be really cool... suiting one to the song, key, chords, melody, etc.
I find using a slightly pre muffled head like a powerstroke 3 or Aquarian studio x on toms 12" and smaller with a tuning lower than the batter head sounds great. I tune the batter head for feel and the reso for the pitch/decay
But that is probably because any time I have used a standard reso head on a drum with a higher tuning it has to much sustain and unwanted overtones no matter how much muffling I use. So I typically just play concert toms
Let it be known that the more you experiment and record yourself, the more you will start to notice these differences, and one day I swear, you will say with your own face hole: “Wow I can’t believe I didn’t notice that before… it’s so obvious!”
Such is our eternal curse as musicians.
Yes! Pattern recognition requires repeated exposure, amassing more and more experience.
Great video. Chapter/section breaks would be handy. 👍
We appreciate the feedback!
Rob 'Beatdown' Brown is probably furious at you for making this video. Hehehe...
Wow, I know that was intended a bit as a joke but it must be rooted in something he's said/done. We hope that this sort of thing doesn't make anyone furious but. What could possibly be wrong with experimentation and the resulting pattern recognition? Unless you don't actually want people to learn and improve at their craft, it seems like this should be right up there with any other sort of practice.
Oh, minor third above for me! What I’m hearing is the higher the reso, the longer the sustain (which makes sense). Interestingly the fundamental tone didn’t change much, though I’d be curious what we’d hear if you repeated this with a mic further away vs a close mic.
It's actually a bit more complicated, the most sustain is unison, then tighter makes the batter head more audible while looser makes the reso head more audible, both lower the sustain. The "pitch bend" effect also changes, downward for looser reso heads, upward for tighter reso heads.
@ interesting!
An important element to keep in mind here is that unison does not always yield the most resonance or sustain. A key factor involved in this is the weight of the batter vs. reso head. Room acoustics and shell dimensions also play a role. That's why, generally speaking, references to a unison providing the most of anything simply due to the interval tend to be inaccurate.
For what it's worth, I placed an emphasis on the stereo pair rather than the close mic for this demonstration to ensure that the tunings and overall tones were being adequately demonstrated rather than it all being about the batter head via the close mic.
@ what I’ve generally been told is you hear more of the batter head tone, the audience hears more of the resonant.
Sorry, there is never an upward pitch bend with drums. It's always down since the stick attack (at high volume) increases tension at the beginning. Upward pitch bend would sound akin to an (upward) Chinese opera gong.
I would like to see experiment with the evans db one heads. I have them and love them for practicing at home. But id like to get the best sound out of them. For example the best tone I have achieved on the bass drum, was with an old batter head on the reso side
Since you've already got these heads (and we don't), you're actually in a far better position to conduct experiments that will yield the most beneficial results. It sounds like you've already experimented with the bass drum. Keep going and try out similar options with the toms and see what you can get with the snare drum. Cheers!
Hey guys, love the channel!
Have you ever made a video about tuning toms that hang on mounts? I use a Pearl Optimount system. I tune my 12" batter & reso off the kit, then when I mount it, it completely changed. Even readings on the tune bot ar wildly different. Any thoughts or advice?
Hey there! Glad to hear that you're enjoying the channel. We've covered the impact of different mounts (specifically the Pearl Optimount vs. snare basket) in the past. This is an old one but still a relevant demo: th-cam.com/video/GnUz9LM--lQ/w-d-xo.html
Optimounts really REALLY shorten the sustain… to put it into marketing gobbledygook… Pearl Optimounts are a more attack-based mounting system.
@@BeatsAndMeats Interesting, I did not know that. Have you any experience with other mounts such R2 Air system?
@@EvanLikesDrums You couldn’t find a mounting system that I have not tried. Any type of RIMS mount or the Pearl ISS mounts work great, but the length of the tom arm that you use, both the part that attaches to the drum/mount AND the part that attaches to the stand or rack… both those lengths make a MASSIVE difference in the amount of resonance you get out of a drum, so you can use both of those lengths to get the sustain that you want. Personally I do not like any mount that lets the drums bounce up and down a whole lot… drives me nuts.
Tambores fora de sintonia. Como não percebe isso? 😮
Ao contrário, os tambores estão afinados. O que pode ser confundido com problemas relacionados à entonação é resultado dos diferentes intervalos de afinação entre as duas peles.
@SoundsLikeADrum Pare de interpretar tambores individualmente, eles precisam funcionar em conjunto, essa era a ideia de quem um dia inventou de juntá-los! 😁
Talvez você seja novo em nosso canal, nesse caso, damos as boas-vindas a você! Parte de fornecer um recurso educacional, como o que construímos aqui, envolve focar em elementos específicos (potencialmente em um nível muito detalhado) e então considerar tudo no contexto da bateria e da música como um todo. Esse é um elemento-chave que está presente em todo o nosso canal. Então, embora possamos ter usado o exemplo de experimentar a relação intervalar entre batter e reso neste tambor de 12" como o ponto focal do episódio, dificilmente é às custas dos contextos percussivos e/ou musicais maiores. Obrigado e, novamente, bem-vindo!
Guarnatee, that snare stand mounted tom is losing resonance across the entire drum both head and shell with the reso head being affected majorily. Make that your next video.
Well of course the mount is affecting the resonance- that's true regardless of mount. As for the resonance being "affected majorly," we'd have to disagree. The use of the TnR isolation mounts on the snare basket provide quite a bit of spring, allowing for the drum and heads to resonate far more than if the drum was just sitting on the bare snare basket. We've addressed this in early videos but it might be worth revisiting since there's clearly still some skepticism. All of that said, this isn't so much of a factor in what's being demonstrated here because the mounting method was a constant, not a variable. Thanks for watching!
Im definitely guilty of tuning the reso head and forgetting about them
Sadly since you use a close mic on the batter, the difference we can hear is rather subtle, and the main advantage of a warm tuning - bottom (preferably a third) higher tuned than the batter, which is that it gives you overtones and octave below the fundamental tone, is lost without overhead mic.
This also explains why most drummers think tuning does not matter, bc the close mic is so dominant on how the drums sound recorded, the art of tuning kinda is lost for most.
Would have loved this video with only room mics, but who are we kidding… drums are not really acoustic instruments, we have the mics closed by default. Sigh….
An octave, not „and“…
Ah, but just because you see a microphone doesn't mean you know the mix, right? The batter head microphone was barely in the mix (just enough to ensure adequate acoustic representation). The heavy lifting from what you're hearing is being done with the two distance microphones. Don't let your eyes fool you...
Any chance this is Stefan?
@@SoundsLikeADrumwhen this was recorded with room mic, it is odd that the difference is still so subtle. Doing this tuning changes live in person with customers in the same room, is usually eye opening and way less subtle than this. Would you agree? Maybe it is the snare stand that already eats a lot sustain, the rather high tuning to start with, dunno.
Oh and yes, it is me, Stefan.
Sorry, usuall I start with praising your videos before telling you how you did it all wrong :) but here I was like „hey cool, I will love this video“ - and then I was rather disappointed by the subtlety of the results. Audible, yes, but by far not what I would have expected from my live experiences. Why do you think this is?!
My go-to tuning is usually batter as low as possible while still giving you a well defined sound (hand warm…) while tuning bottom the same and then going a quarter turn higher, which would be your major third I guess…
What you're describing in terms of difference is the primary reason why we recommend that our viewers conduct these experiments themselves. The multitude of factors at play in room acoustics alone are enough to justify that. Even still, you're comparing an audio recording to in-person experience and that, in and of itself, presents another significant variable to justify the value of self-guided experimentation.
I was surprised to see a comment from you here after the rather disrespectful email that you sent a while back. Hopefully you were just having bad day. ✌️