Cut clearances have to do with the type and size of material ex. You want .003 clearance on thin material where with thick material you want .01 same goes with punches. A good way to tell if your shear needs sharpened is that your shear area will have a "2/3rd" line where the material deforms then breaks if the shear has too much or not enough then that "2/3rds" will be different.
The 40 ton MetalPro (from McMaster Carr) is only about $2800. Of course you can spend that much again if you add all the optional tooling including a complete set of round and square punches (which I have). MMC doesn't carry the 45 ton version, which is a little more and has some nice features like an out-board punch station (so you can punch around the edges of arbitrarily large sheets), but they could probably get one for you. I have both versions and like them very much. (And as I mentioned in a previous comment, I really like their customer service.) There is some distortion around flat sheared ends, and the angle-iron shear really distorts one side of the cut (spreads it out).
Yes. There is one in our fab shop at work, we exchange the punch for a notcher attachment for doing hand rail. When the punch is put back on some monkeys don't bother to center the punch to the die, or to lubricate or not put over size material through it etc. Got a small pile of chipped, deformed and ruined punches and dies of various size and the cuts aren't as clean as they should be, because of the abuse. You appear to give do diligence to the care and operation of equipment and should not have a problem. I work for my county government so I get to see the "best and brightest" perform daily. My comment came from my experience. Your mileage will most certainly vary. Lol
We had a flywheel-driven ironworker when I was in school. They're awesome, but also terrifying. This thing spun a 600 pound flywheel at about 1400RPM, when you pull the trigger, it will complete a cycle. Period. A guy put some half inch AR500 plate on it without knowing, it was harder than the punch die. Pulled the trigger ,a cycle completed, the punch exploded and sent a broadhead-shaped shard into his forehead. He lost the ability to smell, lost sight in one eye, and now has several mood disorders, the shard was touching the back of his skull when they x-rayed him in the hospital. You must. MUST. be cautious with these things. Always know what you're putting in it, without any shadow of doubt, and don't put your face right in front of the punch, that's asking for trouble.
We had one of those flywheel models in my first engineering job . . like you said, this thing was scary! God nor man would not stop it once it began it's cycle! Serious machine, got the job done tho! And on a side note, I remember we got all those exact deformations in the mild steel as shown on the alu in the vid.
I like to think that if you don't know any better, you will try things that others may have been told "you just don't do" and could be pleasantly surprised. :)
Hey John, I have found when punching the tool clearance between the punch and die matters for a clean cut and tool life. Bit of CRC or WD40 for steel / Stainless and narrow cut kerosene for aluminium in a spray bottle for lube works well. As a guide the thinner the material the smaller the clearance to maintain a decent cut. It also can effect the amount of pressure needed to cut through the material too. It'll never come out like a machined cut, but plenty fine enough for shoving a bolt through or even self tapping threads. As for work hardening around the cut edge, it would be small if any as cold working is a function of plastic deformation in metals. Determined by an equation of original area minus the area changed divided by the original area times by 100, expressed as a percent. Page 232 of Materials Science and Engineering, Wiley press if you inclined to see how it all works.
Some Ironworkers are awesome but not all. if you're considering a used machine may I suggest trying it before buying. Also try pricing tooling for the machine as to get an idea of what it costs. The punch and die clearances are based on the thickness of material. Meaning that if you set a punch and die for 1/2" material it will have a heavy burr on 11 gage.
just want to say that I love watching you...you are one of the most positive persons I have ever seen...keep up the good work brother, you're a true inspiration...
We just got a Scotchman 65 ton ironworker in the shop I work in. we looked at the Cleveland Steel Tool /Edwards iron worker and liked the Scotchman better. Scotchman had a demo truck at well. BTW 1" = 25.4mm
Automated saw, John. Throw in the raw material, set the program and have a cop of coffee while it does all the work for you. Or better yet, start working on the first part while it saws the rest =)
A shear deforms, it has too, that is how it works by rupturing the bonds of the material which requires forces beyond the tensile limit of the material., so it it is what it is. For many jobs the deformation is of no real consequence. For welded fabs many times the weld will blend the sheared edge to nothing. I would also imagine you were milling saw cuts as well and not producing parts with sawn edges so milling the deformed material off is not a big deal either, the shears are smoking fast though and starter punched holes would be a huge time saver as well if locating them doesn't take just as long. I someday plan to have an ironworker because for jobs like building a trailer or something it is the fastest thing around for getting the metal ready to weld.
I have been a visitor at a steel company that regularly sheared 1.5 inch plate that was 10 feet wide. The edges looked the same. It is the shearing that creates the edges. Try using tin snips on sheet metal and look at the edges very closely; they should be the same. Scissors on paper or cloth work by the same principle of cutting in one location at a time. That seems to be typical of salesmen not knowing all about what they are selling. It is a shame.
2 comments, 1:) it is 25.4mm to the inch, not 25.2 as stated. 2:) Does shearing cause any change in the hardness of the material at the shear point due to work hardening or other stresses? Can this effect machining practices similar to needing to rough off the scale and slag from hot cuts? Also, regardless of price, your gut told you which way to go, and i would have done the same. If you don't know a key thing like the measurement system the machine you sell is built to, how are you going to be able to service it when it breaks?
I think that you are absolutely spot on with your comments. I was appalled that the guys peddling the expensive machine had never tried to run a bit of 1" solid bar through their machine. What else havent they tried to run through it?
That was a smart decision John. I've never run anything like this myself, but have sharpened some tooling for others and I hear they're a real money maker. You can probably make up some tooling to do the channels etc if it comes to that and modify the machine as required to suit your purposes. That burr looks more like a clearance issue to me. Keep in mind, my opinion is worth about what you've just paid for it, but I understand there's both a formula and also a bit of a knack to setting the appropriate clearance, and I think it varies between materials. It's not just a case of the shear/punch being sharp or not, although that obviously affects things. My thoughts in regard the distortion would be to set up your production jigs as soft-jaws, with clearances allowed for the area of distortion so the material isn't being gripped there. It's going to be machines away anyway, the only difference might be to allow additional cleanup allowances. Even when gripping in a vice for ad hoc work, just use some jaw inserts to limit the grip length and avoid the distorted area. As others have said, yes it's 25.4 mm = 1 inch. 25.4 is a very handy number to remember BTW, and incidentally why lathe translation gears from metric to imperial or visa versa are 127; the smallest prime (number) of 254. 254 being, wait for it, the length of an inch. A bonus piece of useless trivia is that an inch is now officially 25.4 millimetres. Yes even in the US, so all the anti-metric guys been working in metric all the time, and just didn't know it! ;) I'm looking forward to seeing this bad-boy in action. I can't even imagine having the room, even in my wildest dreams, for such a machine, but just love hydraulics. I'll just have to live out my Ironworker fetishes through you John, so bring it on! :P
For aluminum I use an old cast iron table saw with a sled for most of my cutting. Its only like a 2HP with 10" blade but it rips through 1/2" stock pretty quickly. I'm using an 80T aluminum blade, its either 0 or negative rake. I usually setup a stop on the sled and I can chop up stock way faster than on a bandsaw or cold saw. I also use it as a poor mans milling machine to rough out parts. The finish sucks but it often gets the job done. I'm thinking a big old 5HP cast iron table saw with a 12" or even a 14" blade would rock cutting up stock. With the CNC mill you could easily make some really nice sleds for holding various types of stock. You could also make some nice adjustable stops that can be dialed right in. You could take it even further and add power feed(s). Hell why not just make it 2 axis CNC?
Great video :-) Several years ago I operated an Edwards. The distortion, you are seeing was typical of pretty much any shear, out there... The list of equipment, I operated is extensive. When you shear anything, it's like a pair of scissors and the stress on the material runs the whole length of the material cut... My metal supplier will sometimes shear plate steel into 1" strips, if the run out of 1" Flat bar... The strip of sheared flat bar will always be twisted. If I need "Flat" 1" flat bar, I have to specify "Not Sheared", or they'll try to slip it through, to save a bit of money... That's the nature of the beast. The "Distortion" is what I think of as the "Material Stress Zone". Larger shears have a clamp to hold a piece of material in place to minimize the twisting, but it still happens, just not as much. Something to think about... Cold Rolled Steel is made by inducing Stress into the surface of Hot Rolled Steel... You'd find that if you Heat up Cold Rolled Steel, it looses it's surface stress and reverts to the Hot Rolled state. If you take a distorted piece of sheared steel and heat it up, along the affected region, it will loose a lot of the distortion caused by shearing... Not all, but some... Thinking about using a CNC machining tool along the affected zone, I would treat it as if it were Cold Rolled Steel... if it has not been heat treated (Normalized)... The same would apply to Holes Punched in steel... I don't know if Aluminum would be the same as they are two, very different metals... But the affect in aluminum would not be as severe as steel...
Really, Aluminum should not be so affected as Steel... Reason being, Aluminum has a soft core and oxidizes quite differently than Steel... Aluminum develops an Oxidized surface but is still soft internally... If you're welding aluminum, the core is molten before the Oxidized surface melts... It take a lot of practice to know when the Upper surface is molten, but not the Bottom layer... Because, if the bottom layer of oxidized metal melts, all of the core will simply fall out... being liquid long before the bottom... The trick is to melt the top layer before the bottom layer... That takes a lot of practice... However, if you are welding aluminum with a TIG welder with "High Frequency", the High Frequency burns off the Upper layer, exposing the core, but leaves the bottom layer intact... That also takes a lot of practice... Bottom line is, to me anyway, It would make little sense "Cold Rolling" aluminum as the structure of aluminum is very different from Steel... It doesn't form grains like steel does... Steel is uniform throughout... When it is pressed, sheared or whatever, the structure of steel changes and can be affected by heat treating, whereas Aluminum is a very different animal... Sortta like Apples and Oranges... In the end, Aluminum Alloys have been developed to increase hardness. It's something like Molly Steel, but with Molly Steel the entire structure of the material has changed, not just the surface. Aluminum Alloys change the entire structure of the material, in a similar way. I think you understand... Might be an idea to get into some books on Metallurgy... The properties of various metals would go a long way, in your business... :-)
I like to think that if you don't know any better, you will try things that others may have been told "you just don't do" and could be pleasantly surprised. :)
WOW! You're rep didn't have a clue, 10 % of the shear thickness is the clearance of a tool! Your tool is has to be set as per the material thickness. Your cut quality is completely dependent on the setup and the tools not so much the quality of the machine! Double the cash for the same scope of machine??? I mean really this isn't a HAAS vs a Okuma here! its a bloodily iron worker. Sounds like you made a very good decision! Look forward too you're new 'will it shear' channel (fingers not included :) Cheers!
Changing the clearance will change result. That thick aluminum probably needs 0.02" clearance from die to punch. Id get a horizontal bandsaw. King makes one for $1000. Cut bar in half and stack, easy. Blade should last long time. Check Amada for punch and shears
The Edwards looks like a good machine. It is as little small compared to what I'm used to though. when you decide to look for a brake let me know and I give you whatever advice I can. I've run from 100 ton doing .038 up to 2500 ton up to 12" thick.
Start adding up the inches for every cut made with a saw blade. Cold saws, about and 1/16" sometimes up to 1/8"Kerf give or take. So every 8-16 parts you cut, you lose an inch of material! If you cut 80-160 parts, that's 10" of material turned to dust, literally. The shear is a zero material loss. Deforms? Yes. But less than a 1/16". And that's assuming you even need the ends to be perfectly square.
you have to look at this as a machine shop. .. just like hesaid. IF you ate running a sheet metal shop then I do see the need ... but then again a job that makes money is not to complain about it all depends 1 on your budget 2 the size of your chop 3 do you want to work on anything with metal. it all depends on your vision for your business
I'll also vouch for the durability and reliability of the Edwards style Ironworker. I work in a votech shop where an identical edwards press gets used by students daily. No one is more creative nor diligent in finding ways to break tools and equipment as 17 year old boys. It still runs like a champ after 7 years of daily use. I expect with normal care it'll be running 50 years from now.
Regarding the "gumminess" of Aluminium vs. Steel, we work with what is probably the gummiest of common metals, Lead (radiation shielding needs it). Once you get that soft, shearing is problematic because of the deformation and "flow" of the metal, so we have to bandsaw it. Aluminium may need a closer shear distance setting than Steel in order to produce the best results - you may have to factor in adjustment time when changing materials vs. material wastage where more has to be machined away if left unadjusted - only experience and experimentation will tell.
Use a 90 tooth cutting wheel from the DeWalt or better yet use the red blade called Diablo for metal cutting. Both need be 12” blade. It’s a high speed blade and will cut Aluminum for months before you would need to have the blade re-sharpened. Will give clean thin line cuts
shearing and punching, are fracturing the metal. the quality of edge you got was because the aluminum is soft. mild steel shears awesome and CRS will have a very similar look to it as the Al. you should absolutely be using that for cnc material prep. I have done the cost analysis to have parts cnc plasma, lasered or sheared and punched. I could do the parts for a third the cost of the laser and a little faster as well. A large shear is going to be about 20k. if your going to that do it right, 8 ft x .250 minimum but the 10 ft is ida. you have the space but damn are they expspensive. I could really use one but for the cost and space I can not justify it when alro will shear to width and then I just chunk it into blanks on the CST. if you do look at shears go with a mechanical type and not a hydraulic one. about 4 times the cycles per minute. works awesome for small little parts.
That burr in the corner that you guys thought was caused by the blade is normal since the metal is just breaking apart at that point, think of sawing and leaving a small area uncut and you break it by hand, you'll see almost the same thing.
Edwards 65 ton has a 24" shear, punch station, angle shear, coper notch and a muti tool station that will accept the break and all the other round , square, channel shear and other stuff they make. I'm going on 20 years of having mine and it's just as good as the day I got it new.
you keep the small side from tipping down and you will not get that angle and the off side. I use 1" rubber under the part back side keeping it parallel and perpendicular to the blade and keep it sharp this is key........
Hi John. Thank you for the video, is good that you take the time to look around at what options you have available to use in your machine shop. If you plan to do a lot of structural steel small or large yes these machines are necessary . But if you plan to use it to short cut your machining work this is bad idea imo. If you want to get serious about machining times get a real CNC mill. Put the price of your Tormach together with this machine you could easily buy a real CNC mill i think it is about time to get a real CNC mill and stop messing with the Toymach???? Your business is growing very well John so it is time to get out of the part time/ hobby type of environment thinking and stop messing around with hobby machines. 10 Toymach will not equal one decent CNC $$$,$$$.
In tool and die, we use 10% material thickness 12% for thicker material and 8% for very thin. I do believe this is in machinist handbook,definitely in tool and die books. this applies to shearing and punching holes. there are few other variables, this is good rule of thumb. not sure how easy it is to adjust cutting clearance on this machine. there is also a easy formula to figure out tons needed to cut , I'll have to dig that up if anyone is interested.
I agree the geka is sloppy at shearing. For $20k that defeats the purpose unless your rough cutting lengths to be machined and don’t care about the waste. 😏
I have little experience with these machines but in school I had ½ year in sheet fabs. The cutters need to be set for each thickness, otherwise it will cut bad. Though we only cut max 2mm sheets so it didn't make much of a difference. Aluminium might be bad to cut because as you said it's soft. If you want to make 25mm hole and you punch it to say 20mm of course it's going to save some time and tools. Then again it might harden the edge and the tools don't last as good. And you need to be pretty good on spot or else it's going to cut uneven.
Cool! Was nice to meet you (Dave) @ the SMW Open House...who'da thunk we lived just minutes apart?? Well, I guess Cindy did! lol Thanks for the info John!
If you do decide on a press brake/shear/turret punch press, I would honestly say to go with Accurpress/Accurshear/Accurmax. Amada makes press brakes and turret punch presses, as well, but for one machine, you would probably be able to buy several Tormach's. Amada's best brakes would have to be their RG series, which they don't make anymore. The new machines are good, but there is no reason why they should be $250,000+.
For cutting this type of stuff, a 14" Cold Cut saw is fast and leaves a nearly machined surface on the edges. I made over 1000 cuts on 3" channel and angle iron on an installation job with the DeWalt 872 and $130 DW7747 blade. While in a hurry, a cut would take about 4 seconds; slowing down to 10 seconds, gets you a "mirror" surface in some steels. About $750 total for the saw & several blades. Still makes great cuts aluminum and steel (using different blades). The only negative about this saw is the stamped steel base. I keep putting off adding a thin steel plate on top to keep it from bending. Try one out! For holes, I had a Diacro turret punch which had about 24 punches & dies in it. Rotate the turret to the hole size & shape and punch!
An iron worker for aluminium is definitely not the best route... They’re okay for rough hack jobs in stainless steel and mild steel only. Even when setup and lubricated properly, they leave a nasty finish on all materials. Fastest way to cut any shape aluminium extruded stock accurately, is a non-ferrous drop saw with pneumatic clamps, mist lubrication system and a conveyor with an adjustable length stop. For example load up 10 lengths of flat bar on the conveyor, then let the pneumatic clamps hold them against the back board (you don’t need to weld them together) and you are cutting 10 parts at a time! No de-burring required when you have a nice sharp lubricated blade. Run you about half the cost of an iron worker too. Other benefits are- -Produces a burr free almost mirror finish cut. -Can cut mitre angles -Can also be used for plastics. -Can cut square stock up to 200mm x 150 (this obviously depends on what size saw you have) There is simply no comparison if cutting aluminium accurately and fast is your goal. I have both an iron worker and non-ferrous drop saw at my work place and the iron worker sits in the corner idle most days of the year. It actually only gets used for 2 tasks- trimming small dia stainless rod to length and occasionally punching holes in stainless steel (because we all know how much of a pain drilling stainless steel can be! )
Whoops watching clip you talk about saw blades lol. Your breaking everything down clearly and point by point. Good clip I’ll be hitting like and subscribe button.
If your main squeeze is aluminum you might want to check out an aircraft shop for tricks in fabing cleaner edges and holes, etc. Might be as simple as grinding a different angle on the blades?With use you probably will figure out tricks of your own! Cheers
You see at 214 where he says aha there's our piece? Do you see how he had to walk around the back of the machine to remove it? With these ironworker they just stack up in the back of the machine. Unless they're longer than 3 in plan on taking a lot of steps if you've got a lot of small parts to make. I have a 60 ton and I am not impressed. The guards for the Cooper notcher are virtually impossible to see what your notching. The deck that the die sits in for the punch warps because of the compression and the low grade material. The angle iron cutter rounds out the angle and makes it a half circle when cut. Any other questions?
Hi John, another great video. BTW you will always get de-formation, regardless of what machine you buy. It's the nature of the process. The only way to minimise it is to adjust the clearance for each type and thickness of material. Given the iron worker is designed to work across a whole range of materials and thicknesses, ya might say it is set up for the "average". You have bought a very versatile machine. Congratulations.
Edwards makes accessories for this machine that allow it to do even more,like a really nice tubing bender and I believe some other things. They run off the same hydraulic supply. Edwards also has tooling for their units that can form channel from flat stock, make unistrut type channel, their catalog is full of options. Edwards is USA made and has been making metal shearing tools since around 1930... I see their ironworkers on eBay all the time selling for good money.
Could a punched whole in metal also make the stronger part, as apposed to drilling a whole? Even using a slightly conical shaped punch (it would produce a smaller plug than the whole which is created). Would that work harden it in some way? That would be interesting to see.
Sounds like a no brainer picking between the ironworkers. We never found that it was good for aluminum prep for the VMC. For steel weld and fab work it is the king, for sure. There are plenty of saws that will cut the kind of aluminum material you demoed about as fast as the shear with near perfect edges. The real trick to getting good use out of an iron worker or a saw, is fixturing.
Good evaluation video John. No doubt the Iron Worker and similar machines are not precision but if the applications save enough time & other costs, it will be worthwhile.
Looks to me when you show the back side of it while he shears it after you said "go ahead" that as the angled blade comes down it shears from one side to the other and builds some stress in the part and it looks like it pops off before the shear starts shearing that side. That leaves a protruding part that gets scraped by the blade, causing the blemish. Could just be the video angle but either way iron workers are awesome. I used a smaller one in high school to cut up flat stock for every one to practice welding. It could cut up a full stick of 3"x .250" flat stock into 4" sections so fast, and it was quite satisfying. I am interested in seeing if the time and blade savings offset the deformed stock waste.
Could you try to experiment with pre-scoring/grooving the stock before the sheer to see if you get a better quality output. I know it might not be job-shop economical but it is worth noting. I would start by grooving all 4 sides and back off from there
Make sure whoever sets the punch takes care in aligning the bottom (female) die, It is easy to chip the punch if it's misaligned and takes very little effort to get it right in the first place.
Shearing typically has some deformation some more than others of course a dull shear blade won't help. It all depends what you are going to do with the parts. If the sheared edges are going to be welded it doesn't matter much. If you need a clean edge shearing isn't the best choice. Cutting multiple bars in a band saw would be more productive however. You could also use a cold saw thus eliminating the secondary machining.
Deformation comes with how long the blade lasts. The sharper the lesser, but then again, the least it will last. The closer to blunt, the longer it lasts since it has more meat to sustain cuts time and time again. That's how i view it, and it's based on chisels which i've worked with quite a lot. One of the reasons why i have a band saw as opposed to a shearing system, now, this system, if i can get something like this in Europe, well, i might get one. Having three stations and a angle iron cutting position, at 55 ton, nothing to sneeze at.
hmm cost of machine compared to production for a CNC setup ,, but how much material are you going to "lose" . It seems like your going to have to machine a lot to get to good non deformed stock. 8k is a lot of end mills
Interesting little machine. I'll be honest never actually seen one. And $10k for that level of versatility is a steal. May not take the place of dedicated brakes or punches. But could certainly delay the need for one. And sheared edge distortion on stock is the reason serrated hard jaws for vices were made :)
+NYC CNC you'd be surprised. Put it this way. It took 55 tons over a small shear area to produce that deformation. I don't think a mere 10,000lbs over 6-8" square inches is gonna be enough ;) Or you just put a flat brake on the side and squish it back into shape after shearing XD
The bit sticking out is from as it shears the weight of the piece makes it hang and causes the huge burr, you should check out a wet sander machine if you do alot of plate and dont want to face mill. You put the bar in it comes out other side sized, it like wood planer
You are gonna trim milling for square anyway and when you can prep a whole run of hundreds of parts in an hour or two....a saw blade and labor rate comparison is a no brainer.
Awesome video. I've often lusted after an Iron Worker. I decided to get a CNC Vertical Milling Machine first. I don't think you can go wrong with an Edwards.
Wow that Edwards looks really nice. I don't think aluminum is going to cut well just as you said. In the shops I've worked we always used a wood chop saw or a dual speed wet cold saw.
No matter where you live, in today's world wide markets you and your tools and machines need to be able to cover the minor differences that occur between metric and imperial sourced materials and machines because you can find your self using material being sourced that has been made to either standard. Suppliers can change where they source their materials from simply due to price and or availability because in theory steel is steel and aluminium is aluminium. Having said that it is a known fact that how a piece of steel behaves during cutting and welding can tell an experienced tradesperson just where that steel was made. Australian steel is known to be much harder to cut than Chinese steel.
Yes. Mark is correct. A number of the Australian steels are actually supplied as dual grade. i.e. 350/450 mPa 350 is just a normal mid range mild steel, 450 having a higher tensile strength, but still a mild steel. The Chinese generally appear to make a product that is right on spec, very close to minimum spec, but still within. Both are marketed as the same base spec product here. 250 mPa is a low grade mild steel that is commonly supplied as well.
For the aluminum get a chop saw with a carbide blade. Very clean cuts. That shear is going to mess up the grain structure into the ends of the cut bar. Just don't push the cut.
its just like tearing a piece of paper in your fingers pull one side up the other down its gotta distort a bit thats not that bad though for the speed .
One thing we have added to all of our small sheers and iron workers are spring pressure pads on the rear of the sheer, you will notice that the part that is clamped down on the front face comes out better because is stays flat the entire time but the drop piece on the back breaks on an angle some depending on the thickness and leaves more of a beveled cut compared to the front cut. And as far as the holes we use a piranha iron worker in production of parts and it works great but expect parts to have a bow to them after being punched. Having some type of die spring to apply down force while punching results in a much better part.
Cut clearances have to do with the type and size of material ex. You want .003 clearance on thin material where with thick material you want .01 same goes with punches. A good way to tell if your shear needs sharpened is that your shear area will have a "2/3rd" line where the material deforms then breaks if the shear has too much or not enough then that "2/3rds" will be different.
That would be 25.4mm.
The 40 ton MetalPro (from McMaster Carr) is only about $2800. Of course you can spend that much again if you add all the optional tooling including a complete set of round and square punches (which I have). MMC doesn't carry the 45 ton version, which is a little more and has some nice features like an out-board punch station (so you can punch around the edges of arbitrarily large sheets), but they could probably get one for you. I have both versions and like them very much. (And as I mentioned in a previous comment, I really like their customer service.)
There is some distortion around flat sheared ends, and the angle-iron shear really distorts one side of the cut (spreads it out).
Keep your punch lubed.. we used AccuLube PowerStamp II and PowerStamp III.. only difference being light duty application and heavy duty application.
only too glad to help.
water jet if you still need the Aluminum cut
great machine, keep up with adjustment.
Yes.
There is one in our fab shop at work, we exchange the punch for a notcher attachment for doing hand rail. When the punch is put back on some monkeys don't bother to center the punch to the die, or to lubricate or not put over size material through it etc.
Got a small pile of chipped, deformed and ruined punches and dies of various size and the cuts aren't as clean as they should be, because of the abuse.
You appear to give do diligence to the care and operation of equipment and should not have a problem.
I work for my county government so I get to see the "best and brightest" perform daily.
My comment came from my experience. Your mileage will most certainly vary. Lol
How much is the machine ... Thank you very much
16:11 I think that is the 1st time I've heard you use a bad word :) LMAO
We had a flywheel-driven ironworker when I was in school. They're awesome, but also terrifying. This thing spun a 600 pound flywheel at about 1400RPM, when you pull the trigger, it will complete a cycle. Period. A guy put some half inch AR500 plate on it without knowing, it was harder than the punch die. Pulled the trigger ,a cycle completed, the punch exploded and sent a broadhead-shaped shard into his forehead. He lost the ability to smell, lost sight in one eye, and now has several mood disorders, the shard was touching the back of his skull when they x-rayed him in the hospital.
You must. MUST. be cautious with these things. Always know what you're putting in it, without any shadow of doubt, and don't put your face right in front of the punch, that's asking for trouble.
We had one of those flywheel models in my first engineering job . . like you said, this thing was scary! God nor man would not stop it once it began it's cycle! Serious machine, got the job done tho! And on a side note, I remember we got all those exact deformations in the mild steel as shown on the alu in the vid.
Well said 👍
Wow
Same thing happened in my workshop. Someone was using the punch and the die exploded and sent a massive fragment into his chest. He was fine luckily.
Sounds more like you had a Punch Press rather than an iron worker.... either way, you are correct, safety precautions must be followed !
Always have to question a salesguy who has to badmouth the competition in order to shift their own product :)
Definitely. rings alarm bells with me too
I like to think that if you don't know any better, you will try things that others may have been told "you just don't do" and could be pleasantly surprised. :)
Hey John, I have found when punching the tool clearance between the punch and die matters for a clean cut and tool life. Bit of CRC or WD40 for steel / Stainless and narrow cut kerosene for aluminium in a spray bottle for lube works well. As a guide the thinner the material the smaller the clearance to maintain a decent cut. It also can effect the amount of pressure needed to cut through the material too. It'll never come out like a machined cut, but plenty fine enough for shoving a bolt through or even self tapping threads. As for work hardening around the cut edge, it would be small if any as cold working is a function of plastic deformation in metals. Determined by an equation of original area minus the area changed divided by the original area times by 100, expressed as a percent. Page 232 of Materials Science and Engineering, Wiley press if you inclined to see how it all works.
1 inch = 25.4 mm
Some Ironworkers are awesome but not all. if you're considering a used machine may I suggest trying it before buying. Also try pricing tooling for the machine as to get an idea of what it costs. The punch and die clearances are based on the thickness of material. Meaning that if you set a punch and die for 1/2" material it will have a heavy burr on 11 gage.
just want to say that I love watching you...you are one of the most positive persons I have ever seen...keep up the good work brother, you're a true inspiration...
We just got a Scotchman 65 ton ironworker in the shop I work in. we looked at the Cleveland Steel Tool /Edwards iron worker and liked the Scotchman better. Scotchman had a demo truck at well. BTW 1" = 25.4mm
Automated saw, John. Throw in the raw material, set the program and have a cop of coffee while it does all the work for you. Or better yet, start working on the first part while it saws the rest =)
A shear deforms, it has too, that is how it works by rupturing the bonds of the material which requires forces beyond the tensile limit of the material., so it it is what it is. For many jobs the deformation is of no real consequence. For welded fabs many times the weld will blend the sheared edge to nothing. I would also imagine you were milling saw cuts as well and not producing parts with sawn edges so milling the deformed material off is not a big deal either, the shears are smoking fast though and starter punched holes would be a huge time saver as well if locating them doesn't take just as long. I someday plan to have an ironworker because for jobs like building a trailer or something it is the fastest thing around for getting the metal ready to weld.
I have been a visitor at a steel company that regularly sheared 1.5 inch plate that was 10 feet wide. The edges looked the same. It is the shearing that creates the edges. Try using tin snips on sheet metal and look at the edges very closely; they should be the same. Scissors on paper or cloth work by the same principle of cutting in one location at a time.
That seems to be typical of salesmen not knowing all about what they are selling. It is a shame.
2 comments,
1:) it is 25.4mm to the inch, not 25.2 as stated.
2:) Does shearing cause any change in the hardness of the material at the shear point due to work hardening or other stresses? Can this effect machining practices similar to needing to rough off the scale and slag from hot cuts?
Also, regardless of price, your gut told you which way to go, and i would have done the same. If you don't know a key thing like the measurement system the machine you sell is built to, how are you going to be able to service it when it breaks?
third one was free.....
I think that you are absolutely spot on with your comments. I was appalled that the guys peddling the expensive machine had never tried to run a bit of 1" solid bar through their machine. What else havent they tried to run through it?
looking at my toe nails hmmmm is there an add on for the :P
That was a smart decision John. I've never run anything like this myself, but have sharpened some tooling for others and I hear they're a real money maker. You can probably make up some tooling to do the channels etc if it comes to that and modify the machine as required to suit your purposes.
That burr looks more like a clearance issue to me. Keep in mind, my opinion is worth about what you've just paid for it, but I understand there's both a formula and also a bit of a knack to setting the appropriate clearance, and I think it varies between materials. It's not just a case of the shear/punch being sharp or not, although that obviously affects things.
My thoughts in regard the distortion would be to set up your production jigs as soft-jaws, with clearances allowed for the area of distortion so the material isn't being gripped there. It's going to be machines away anyway, the only difference might be to allow additional cleanup allowances. Even when gripping in a vice for ad hoc work, just use some jaw inserts to limit the grip length and avoid the distorted area.
As others have said, yes it's 25.4 mm = 1 inch. 25.4 is a very handy number to remember BTW, and incidentally why lathe translation gears from metric to imperial or visa versa are 127; the smallest prime (number) of 254. 254 being, wait for it, the length of an inch. A bonus piece of useless trivia is that an inch is now officially 25.4 millimetres. Yes even in the US, so all the anti-metric guys been working in metric all the time, and just didn't know it! ;)
I'm looking forward to seeing this bad-boy in action. I can't even imagine having the room, even in my wildest dreams, for such a machine, but just love hydraulics. I'll just have to live out my Ironworker fetishes through you John, so bring it on! :P
For aluminum I use an old cast iron table saw with a sled for most of my cutting. Its only like a 2HP with 10" blade but it rips through 1/2" stock pretty quickly. I'm using an 80T aluminum blade, its either 0 or negative rake. I usually setup a stop on the sled and I can chop up stock way faster than on a bandsaw or cold saw. I also use it as a poor mans milling machine to rough out parts. The finish sucks but it often gets the job done.
I'm thinking a big old 5HP cast iron table saw with a 12" or even a 14" blade would rock cutting up stock. With the CNC mill you could easily make some really nice sleds for holding various types of stock. You could also make some nice adjustable stops that can be dialed right in. You could take it even further and add power feed(s). Hell why not just make it 2 axis CNC?
Great video :-) Several years ago I operated an Edwards. The distortion, you are seeing was typical of pretty much any shear, out there... The list of equipment, I operated is extensive. When you shear anything, it's like a pair of scissors and the stress on the material runs the whole length of the material cut... My metal supplier will sometimes shear plate steel into 1" strips, if the run out of 1" Flat bar... The strip of sheared flat bar will always be twisted. If I need "Flat" 1" flat bar, I have to specify "Not Sheared", or they'll try to slip it through, to save a bit of money... That's the nature of the beast. The "Distortion" is what I think of as the "Material Stress Zone".
Larger shears have a clamp to hold a piece of material in place to minimize the twisting, but it still happens, just not as much. Something to think about... Cold Rolled Steel is made by inducing Stress into the surface of Hot Rolled Steel... You'd find that if you Heat up Cold Rolled Steel, it looses it's surface stress and reverts to the Hot Rolled state. If you take a distorted piece of sheared steel and heat it up, along the affected region, it will loose a lot of the distortion caused by shearing... Not all, but some... Thinking about using a CNC machining tool along the affected zone, I would treat it as if it were Cold Rolled Steel... if it has not been heat treated (Normalized)... The same would apply to Holes Punched in steel... I don't know if Aluminum would be the same as they are two, very different metals... But the affect in aluminum would not be as severe as steel...
Really, Aluminum should not be so affected as Steel... Reason being, Aluminum has a soft core and oxidizes quite differently than Steel... Aluminum develops an Oxidized surface but is still soft internally... If you're welding aluminum, the core is molten before the Oxidized surface melts... It take a lot of practice to know when the Upper surface is molten, but not the Bottom layer... Because, if the bottom layer of oxidized metal melts, all of the core will simply fall out... being liquid long before the bottom... The trick is to melt the top layer before the bottom layer... That takes a lot of practice...
However, if you are welding aluminum with a TIG welder with "High Frequency", the High Frequency burns off the Upper layer, exposing the core, but leaves the bottom layer intact... That also takes a lot of practice...
Bottom line is, to me anyway, It would make little sense "Cold Rolling" aluminum as the structure of aluminum is very different from Steel... It doesn't form grains like steel does... Steel is uniform throughout... When it is pressed, sheared or whatever, the structure of steel changes and can be affected by heat treating, whereas Aluminum is a very different animal... Sortta like Apples and Oranges...
In the end, Aluminum Alloys have been developed to increase hardness. It's something like Molly Steel, but with Molly Steel the entire structure of the material has changed, not just the surface. Aluminum Alloys change the entire structure of the material, in a similar way. I think you understand... Might be an idea to get into some books on Metallurgy... The properties of various metals would go a long way, in your business... :-)
I like to think that if you don't know any better, you will try things that others may have been told "you just don't do" and could be pleasantly surprised. :)
WOW! You're rep didn't have a clue, 10 % of the shear thickness is the clearance of a tool! Your tool is has to be set as per the material thickness. Your cut quality is completely dependent on the setup and the tools not so much the quality of the machine! Double the cash for the same scope of machine??? I mean really this isn't a HAAS vs a Okuma here! its a bloodily iron worker. Sounds like you made a very good decision! Look forward too you're new 'will it shear' channel (fingers not included :) Cheers!
+NYC CNC worlds most expensive pizza cutter and panini press XD
And no sex in the champagne room.
Widget Works Manufacturing Inc. don't you mean 'sheers'🤠("cheers")...lol
Changing the clearance will change result. That thick aluminum probably needs 0.02" clearance from die to punch. Id get a horizontal bandsaw. King makes one for $1000. Cut bar in half and stack, easy. Blade should last long time. Check Amada for punch and shears
definitely one of those machines that its nice to have!...you can live without it but you wont want to after using it for a bit
The Edwards looks like a good machine. It is as little small compared to what I'm used to though. when you decide to look for a brake let me know and I give you whatever advice I can. I've run from 100 ton doing .038 up to 2500 ton up to 12" thick.
you will loose so much material just make things square. ..
Start adding up the inches for every cut made with a saw blade. Cold saws, about and 1/16" sometimes up to 1/8"Kerf give or take. So every 8-16 parts you cut, you lose an inch of material! If you cut 80-160 parts, that's 10" of material turned to dust, literally. The shear is a zero material loss. Deforms? Yes. But less than a 1/16". And that's assuming you even need the ends to be perfectly square.
you have to look at this as a machine shop. .. just like hesaid.
IF you ate running a sheet metal shop then I do see the need ...
but then again a job that makes money is not to complain about
it all depends
1 on your budget
2 the size of your chop
3 do you want to work on anything with metal.
it all depends on your vision for your business
I'll also vouch for the durability and reliability of the Edwards style Ironworker. I work in a votech shop where an identical edwards press gets used by students daily. No one is more creative nor diligent in finding ways to break tools and equipment as 17 year old boys. It still runs like a champ after 7 years of daily use. I expect with normal care it'll be running 50 years from now.
Can confirm. We had one of those huge power hacksaws in our shop, it was the only thing tough enough that the students couldn't mess up.
John, 25.4 millimetres equals 1 Inch. If in doubt check with a digital vernier that is Metric and Imperial capable.
I luv the iron worker where I work. use it often.
Regarding the "gumminess" of Aluminium vs. Steel, we work with what is probably the gummiest of common metals, Lead (radiation shielding needs it). Once you get that soft, shearing is problematic because of the deformation and "flow" of the metal, so we have to bandsaw it. Aluminium may need a closer shear distance setting than Steel in order to produce the best results - you may have to factor in adjustment time when changing materials vs. material wastage where more has to be machined away if left unadjusted - only experience and experimentation will tell.
Use a 90 tooth cutting wheel from the DeWalt or better yet use the red blade called Diablo for metal cutting.
Both need be 12” blade. It’s a high speed blade and will cut Aluminum for months before you would need to have the blade re-sharpened.
Will give clean thin line cuts
shearing and punching, are fracturing the metal. the quality of edge you got was because the aluminum is soft. mild steel shears awesome and CRS will have a very similar look to it as the Al.
you should absolutely be using that for cnc material prep. I have done the cost analysis to have parts cnc plasma, lasered or sheared and punched. I could do the parts for a third the cost of the laser and a little faster as well.
A large shear is going to be about 20k. if your going to that do it right, 8 ft x .250 minimum but the 10 ft is ida. you have the space but damn are they expspensive. I could really use one but for the cost and space I can not justify it when alro will shear to width and then I just chunk it into blanks on the CST. if you do look at shears go with a mechanical type and not a hydraulic one. about 4 times the cycles per minute. works awesome for small little parts.
Did you by any chance check out the Iroquois iron worker? Also completely American made iroquoisiron.com
You should know that using 6061 is a bad choice for this demo. You should use steel, then you would have no deformation.
That burr in the corner that you guys thought was caused by the blade is normal since the metal is just breaking apart at that point, think of sawing and leaving a small area uncut and you break it by hand, you'll see almost the same thing.
Iron workers are mainly rough maching welding to make things small enoff to fit so you could finish meching to size or weld
It's hard to think outside the box when you already know what's inside the box.
Great segment!! Thanks for the insite!!! Fred
Edwards 65 ton has a 24" shear, punch station, angle shear, coper notch and a muti tool station that will accept the break and all the other round , square, channel shear and other stuff they make. I'm going on 20 years of having mine and it's just as good as the day I got it new.
Pretty sad when a sales rep is trying to sell you a product that they do not know nothing about.
What tool do you need to make round stock flat like to drill a hole in it to put a bolt in it ?
10K plus tooling... still... a versatile and more importantly, serviceable machine. I'd love to have one of those!
Ever tried the evolution mitre saws?
Oh my goodness, I see endless possibilities 😊
you keep the small side from tipping down and you will not get that angle and the off side. I use 1" rubber under the part back side keeping it parallel and perpendicular to the blade and keep it sharp this is key........
Hi John.
Thank you for the video, is good that you take the time to look around at what options you have available to use in your machine shop.
If you plan to do a lot of structural steel small or large yes these machines are necessary .
But if you plan to use it to short cut your machining work this is bad idea imo.
If you want to get serious about machining times get a real CNC mill.
Put the price of your Tormach together with this machine you could easily buy a real CNC mill i think it is about time to get a real CNC mill and stop messing with the Toymach????
Your business is growing very well John so it is time to get out of the part time/ hobby type of environment thinking and stop messing around with hobby machines.
10 Toymach will not equal one decent CNC $$$,$$$.
Agree, get it done no better than it needs doing.
In tool and die, we use 10% material thickness 12% for thicker material and 8% for very thin. I do believe this is in machinist handbook,definitely in tool and die books. this applies to shearing and punching holes. there are few other variables, this is good rule of thumb. not sure how easy it is to adjust cutting clearance on this machine. there is also a easy formula to figure out tons needed to cut , I'll have to dig that up if anyone is interested.
I agree the geka is sloppy at shearing. For $20k that defeats the purpose unless your rough cutting lengths to be machined and don’t care about the waste. 😏
I have little experience with these machines but in school I had ½ year in sheet fabs. The cutters need to be set for each thickness, otherwise it will cut bad. Though we only cut max 2mm sheets so it didn't make much of a difference. Aluminium might be bad to cut because as you said it's soft. If you want to make 25mm hole and you punch it to say 20mm of course it's going to save some time and tools. Then again it might harden the edge and the tools don't last as good. And you need to be pretty good on spot or else it's going to cut uneven.
Cool! Was nice to meet you (Dave) @ the SMW Open House...who'da thunk we lived just minutes apart?? Well, I guess Cindy did! lol
Thanks for the info John!
If you do decide on a press brake/shear/turret punch press, I would honestly say to go with Accurpress/Accurshear/Accurmax. Amada makes press brakes and turret punch presses, as well, but for one machine, you would probably be able to buy several Tormach's. Amada's best brakes would have to be their RG series, which they don't make anymore. The new machines are good, but there is no reason why they should be $250,000+.
For cutting this type of stuff, a 14" Cold Cut saw is fast and leaves a nearly machined surface on the edges. I made over 1000 cuts on 3" channel and angle iron on an installation job with the DeWalt 872 and $130 DW7747 blade. While in a hurry, a cut would take about 4 seconds; slowing down to 10 seconds, gets you a "mirror" surface in some steels. About $750 total for the saw & several blades. Still makes great cuts aluminum and steel (using different blades). The only negative about this saw is the stamped steel base. I keep putting off adding a thin steel plate on top to keep it from bending. Try one out!
For holes, I had a Diacro turret punch which had about 24 punches & dies in it. Rotate the turret to the hole size & shape and punch!
An iron worker for aluminium is definitely not the best route...
They’re okay for rough hack jobs in stainless steel and mild steel only. Even when setup and lubricated properly, they leave a nasty finish on all materials.
Fastest way to cut any shape aluminium extruded stock accurately, is a non-ferrous drop saw with pneumatic clamps, mist lubrication system and a conveyor with an adjustable length stop.
For example load up 10 lengths of flat bar on the conveyor, then let the pneumatic clamps hold them against the back board (you don’t need to weld them together) and you are cutting 10 parts at a time! No de-burring required when you have a nice sharp lubricated blade.
Run you about half the cost of an iron worker too.
Other benefits are-
-Produces a burr free almost mirror finish cut.
-Can cut mitre angles
-Can also be used for plastics.
-Can cut square stock up to 200mm x 150 (this obviously depends on what size saw you have)
There is simply no comparison if cutting aluminium accurately and fast is your goal.
I have both an iron worker and non-ferrous drop saw at my work place and the iron worker sits in the corner idle most days of the year. It actually only gets used for 2 tasks- trimming small dia stainless rod to length and occasionally punching holes in stainless steel (because we all know how much of a pain drilling stainless steel can be! )
So how can you fix this problem...maybe different type blades or thinner pitch?
Whoops watching clip you talk about saw blades lol.
Your breaking everything down clearly and point by point.
Good clip I’ll be hitting like and subscribe button.
Side question: What is that super long power strip you have on the floor?! Got a name and a model?
If your main squeeze is aluminum you might want to check out an aircraft shop for tricks in fabing cleaner edges and holes, etc. Might be as simple as grinding a different angle on the blades?With use you probably will figure out tricks of your own! Cheers
I've used one at a maker space called Techshop. It's a great machine. Techshop in St. Louis opens in mid August.
You see at 214 where he says aha there's our piece? Do you see how he had to walk around the back of the machine to remove it? With these ironworker they just stack up in the back of the machine. Unless they're longer than 3 in plan on taking a lot of steps if you've got a lot of small parts to make. I have a 60 ton and I am not impressed. The guards for the Cooper notcher are virtually impossible to see what your notching. The deck that the die sits in for the punch warps because of the compression and the low grade material. The angle iron cutter rounds out the angle and makes it a half circle when cut. Any other questions?
Hi John, another great video. BTW you will always get de-formation, regardless of what machine you buy. It's the nature of the process. The only way to minimise it is to adjust the clearance for each type and thickness of material. Given the iron worker is designed to work across a whole range of materials and thicknesses, ya might say it is set up for the "average". You have bought a very versatile machine. Congratulations.
Edwards makes accessories for this machine that allow it to do even more,like a really nice tubing bender and I believe some other things. They run off the same hydraulic supply. Edwards also has tooling for their units that can form channel from flat stock, make unistrut type channel, their catalog is full of options. Edwards is USA made and has been making metal shearing tools since around 1930... I see their ironworkers on eBay all the time selling for good money.
Could a punched whole in metal also make the stronger part, as apposed to drilling a whole? Even using a slightly conical shaped punch (it would produce a smaller plug than the whole which is created). Would that work harden it in some way? That would be interesting to see.
Sounds like a no brainer picking between the ironworkers. We never found that it was good for aluminum prep for the VMC. For steel weld and fab work it is the king, for sure. There are plenty of saws that will cut the kind of aluminum material you demoed about as fast as the shear with near perfect edges. The real trick to getting good use out of an iron worker or a saw, is fixturing.
Good evaluation video John. No doubt the Iron Worker and similar machines are not precision but if the applications save enough time & other costs, it will be worthwhile.
Was it just the camera or did the channel shear deform & splay the work piece? Looked bent.
Looks to me when you show the back side of it while he shears it after you said "go ahead" that as the angled blade comes down it shears from one side to the other and builds some stress in the part and it looks like it pops off before the shear starts shearing that side. That leaves a protruding part that gets scraped by the blade, causing the blemish. Could just be the video angle but either way iron workers are awesome. I used a smaller one in high school to cut up flat stock for every one to practice welding. It could cut up a full stick of 3"x .250" flat stock into 4" sections so fast, and it was quite satisfying. I am interested in seeing if the time and blade savings offset the deformed stock waste.
Man I would love to have an iron worker. The company where I work, we make hundreds of precision punches of all shapes and sizes everyday.
Could you try to experiment with pre-scoring/grooving the stock before the sheer to see if you get a better quality output. I know it might not be job-shop economical but it is worth noting. I would start by grooving all 4 sides and back off from there
+NYC CNC Another way to think about it is that you can groove down to the vice holding level and sheer the rest
You may consider Sunrise which made in Taiwan if you haven't purchased yet.
Golden rule in sales , don't bag out the other guys in the market, talk up your product don't talk theirs down .
Make sure whoever sets the punch takes care in aligning the bottom (female) die, It is easy to chip the punch if it's misaligned and takes very little effort to get it right in the first place.
Shearing typically has some deformation some more than others of course a dull shear blade won't help. It all depends what you are going to do with the parts. If the sheared edges are going to be welded it doesn't matter much. If you need a clean edge shearing isn't the best choice. Cutting multiple bars in a band saw would be more productive however. You could also use a cold saw thus eliminating the secondary machining.
Deformation comes with how long the blade lasts. The sharper the lesser, but then again, the least it will last. The closer to blunt, the longer it lasts since it has more meat to sustain cuts time and time again. That's how i view it, and it's based on chisels which i've worked with quite a lot.
One of the reasons why i have a band saw as opposed to a shearing system, now, this system, if i can get something like this in Europe, well, i might get one. Having three stations and a angle iron cutting position, at 55 ton, nothing to sneeze at.
hmm cost of machine compared to production for a CNC setup ,, but how much material are you going to "lose" . It seems like your going to have to machine a lot to get to good non deformed stock. 8k is a lot of end mills
Interesting little machine. I'll be honest never actually seen one. And $10k for that level of versatility is a steal. May not take the place of dedicated brakes or punches. But could certainly delay the need for one.
And sheared edge distortion on stock is the reason serrated hard jaws for vices were made :)
+NYC CNC you'd be surprised. Put it this way. It took 55 tons over a small shear area to produce that deformation. I don't think a mere 10,000lbs over 6-8" square inches is gonna be enough ;)
Or you just put a flat brake on the side and squish it back into shape after shearing XD
The bit sticking out is from as it shears the weight of the piece makes it hang and causes the huge burr, you should check out a wet sander machine if you do alot of plate and dont want to face mill. You put the bar in it comes out other side sized, it like wood planer
Was the shear tool level to surface of the workpiece and the table? That deformation looks like an uneven pressure relief.
You are gonna trim milling for square anyway and when you can prep a whole run of hundreds of parts in an hour or two....a saw blade and labor rate comparison is a no brainer.
Awesome video. I've often lusted after an Iron Worker. I decided to get a CNC Vertical Milling Machine first.
I don't think you can go wrong with an Edwards.
Wow that Edwards looks really nice. I don't think aluminum is going to cut well just as you said. In the shops I've worked we always used a wood chop saw or a dual speed wet cold saw.
No matter where you live, in today's world wide markets you and your tools and machines need to be able to cover the minor differences that occur between metric and imperial sourced materials and machines because you can find your self using material being sourced that has been made to either standard. Suppliers can change where they source their materials from simply due to price and or availability because in theory steel is steel and aluminium is aluminium.
Having said that it is a known fact that how a piece of steel behaves during cutting and welding can tell an experienced tradesperson just where that steel was made. Australian steel is known to be much harder to cut than Chinese steel.
Yes. Mark is correct. A number of the Australian steels are actually supplied as dual grade. i.e. 350/450 mPa 350 is just a normal mid range mild steel, 450 having a higher tensile strength, but still a mild steel. The Chinese generally appear to make a product that is right on spec, very close to minimum spec, but still within. Both are marketed as the same base spec product here. 250 mPa is a low grade mild steel that is commonly supplied as well.
steel is more stable then alum, witch is so soft its gona move or comperss more(used one for 18 years ,and sander for finnish,)
Wow I live in galion Ohio just 20mins away from Mansfield
For the aluminum get a chop saw with a carbide blade. Very clean cuts. That shear is going to mess up the grain structure into the ends of the cut bar. Just don't push the cut.
Deformation may be from the twisting at the end. Breaking it of differently.
When cutting thicker materials it usually break off" the last part before the sheer is all the way down.
use to use a scotchman iron worker for weld prep parts. worked nice aluminum would deform when bent or sheared.
I think the term you are looking for is 'Ignorance is bliss' ;)
Just butter.
John,
Hope the Edwards works out as well as you expect.
Did you look at either the Scotchman or Piranha iron workers ?
its just like tearing a piece of paper in your fingers pull one side up the other down its gotta distort a bit thats not that bad though for the speed .
I'd like to see if there is any difference in how the new one performs compared to one with some miles on it.
Ignorance is bliss!
One thing we have added to all of our small sheers and iron workers are spring pressure pads on the rear of the sheer, you will notice that the part that is clamped down on the front face comes out better because is stays flat the entire time but the drop piece on the back breaks on an angle some depending on the thickness and leaves more of a beveled cut compared to the front cut. And as far as the holes we use a piranha iron worker in production of parts and it works great but expect parts to have a bow to them after being punched. Having some type of die spring to apply down force while punching results in a much better part.
We have a Scotsman 85ton iron worker and it was an animal