**NOTE** I have since learned that the cross members should go the other direction. High in the middle, low on the hinge. Because, wood is like a whole bunch of fibers in a rope. When the door’s weight pulls on them, and causes tension, they can slip past each other (high on the hinge and low in the middle) But, if you put them in compression they won’t and the door is less likely to sag. Full disclosure, my door hasn’t sagged but I wanted to relay what I had learned. Thank you all! Josh Northwest Craftsman
I thought the same until I realized you used OSB. The OSB will distribute the forces fairly well and shouldn't sag. Any sag you end up with someday will likely come from where the hinges are screwed to the door.
yes, should be fine. OSB is strong in shear when fastened to framing properly, will create a membrane, general suggestion for OSB door panel next time add glue on framing face, such as titebond III, OSB then screw 4-6" o.c. Paint entirely with good quality exterior paint.
Your diagonal door bracing is going the wrong way! They are supposed to go from the lower hinge to the upper opposite corner to support the weight to keep the doors from sagging. The way you have it they are being dragged down.
That's right. That diagonal, as build, is working under tension. were a steel wire or steel rod, wich works fine under tension, works great. But wood, especially it's joints, (almost) only works well under compression.
Glad to hear it! As noted by many other commenters, my brace is backwards for one made of wood. It should be in compression where this one is in tension and has more risk for sagging. Mine hasn’t because the OSB locks it all in but it is worth noting. Good luck on your doors!
Nice instructions, thanks. I cut the boards to size first, then screwed the 2x4 to it. Saved lots of time. Plus I installed the hinges like a man door, so I have access to them anytime.
That’s a great idea! Especially since the OSB is a structural member it’s less about the 2x4’s alone. Good idea on the hinges as well. I couldn’t do them like that since I screwed up my framing and one of the walls wasn’t plumb. But nominally, I think that’s better 😂
Making sure the door doesnt hit anything as it swings out would 100% be something I forget to check until I have it all mounted and try opening it for the first time! Great advice! Some might say those doors are. WELL HUNG ;)
Good job. For security, the hinges on the outside can be easily removed by thieves. Maybe use carriage bolts, washers, and nuts. A very real concern in our times.
That is a very fair point. Where we lived I wasn’t worried about thieves and the star bits still seem to be off enough to deter folks but you’re right, fastening to the inside would have been the most secure.
I wish I could find someone near me to help build doors like this for my garage, it has an old broken swing up door that’s very dangerous and I am physically handicapped to boot so I can’t open it at all. I have spent years trying to get it fixed or replaced and after many visits they all say there is nothing they can do. But this would definitely work.
Oh, that’s silly. I mean it’d be more expensive to build something from scratch but out should be possible. Do you have any groups you’re a part of in the local community? A church, rotary club, or the like? They may have someone that’s handy enough to help you build something.
Great video, thanks for all the detailed info, especially around tolerances. How did you end up fixing the gap between the door and the side of the frame?
Great question! And I’m glad you enjoyed the video. The hinges were able to cover the gap so I hung the door straight and accepted the slightly larger gap near the top of the door. On the inside I have some garage door weather stripping which seals around my doors and covers this gap inside.
Thanks! And great question, I found a solution that works well enough. At the bottom I have some door sweeps and on the edges I have garage door gasket which just hugs the inside of the door. Works like a charm.
Thanks for the video. Apologies if stupid question but when you put the hinges on are the aligned to the wall or to the door (on the left side where you showed the growing gap? Thanks
Hey Alan! That’s actually a phenomenal question. The goal is for the doors to swing evening across the ground at all positions. To do this, the hinges need to have their swinging axis normal to the ground (plum to the floor) and aligned between all hinges. The axis can be imagined by drawing an imaginary line through the center of the hinges cylindrical portion. In my case, to make the hinge plum to the floor, I aligned it with my door since it was square and my frame was not. Let me know if that doesn’t quite answer your question, I can always shoot you an email with some pictures and drawings.
I was hoping I would find another "clean-up Tour" where you removed dust from the rafters and all the elevated structure of the building. Did you do that and just not put it into a video? Your "tour" was May 22, "Shop Doors" was July 7, suggesting they are consecutive productions. I'd appreciate a response on cleaning the upper parts if you did it. Thanks in advance. DIFFERENT TOPIC: This is not an end of the world mistake, but the diagonal across the doors should go from the hinge side bottom to the handle side top. Wood is not isotropic like steel, meaning it does not have the same strength in tension as compression. It is much stronger in compression. You want the diagonals to be oriented the strong direction, compression, not tension as you have them. On the farm when I was growing up, a 16' gate that had the diagonals the wrong direction had to be taken apart and repaired about 5 years after installation because it sagged too much. Once we learned this error, we repaired the mistake as soon as we discovered it, usually during assembly, instead of waiting for it to sag first. We also found out that all the old-timers all knew that and kidded us about it for some time. Your doors are not that long so they might last longer without sagging. If they sag, you can always prop up the door like you did when hanging it, cut a notch in the existing diagonal and insert a new diagonal in the compression direction.
Yea, I skipped that second cleanup video which covered most of that work and though in general the videos are in chronological order to when they were filmed, that’s not always the case 😊 Thank you for your note! I just did some quick research and you’re totally right. I was thinking of doors supported by a cable which is quite anisotropic but beautiful in tension. Next time around I’ll make that adjustment. Thank you for the nugget!
A few flaws that I see... 1. You used chip board for an exterior wall. I will deteriorate much faster than plywood. 2. Your hinges are awfully weak for such a heavy door. They will give way much quicker too!
Thanks for your feedback Peter! What you said is 100% correct but I didn’t show the entire context of the shop. The doors sit about 6’ inside of another entrance and are well protected from the elements. I agree though, Plywood is far more durable. For the hinge, each was rated at something like 50-75 pounds which I calculated should roughly cover the weight of the door with 3 of them. So far so good, but that was another potential weak spot in the design that I planned to keep me eyes on 😂 Again, thanks for the feedback, it helps me to think through why I do what I do and to identify areas for improvement. Have a great one! Josh Northwest Craftsman
@@NorthwestCraftsman Of course! Something else to consider on those hinges. That rating isnt taking the wind loads into factor. May I suggest hinges that are used on cattle panels? Last year I built a swing door for a lady who lived on the prairie. Her hinges were destroyed in a matter of weeks. I thought the same thing that the weight of the door was the only thing I had to consider. Just some food for thought.
@@NorthwestCraftsman pressure treated plywood would be a bit better. paint is a consideration. Winds blow rains. When your non treated wood soaks up the rain it's going to get real heavy on those hinges.
You’re totally right 😂 I have been called out an absolutely appropriate amount for this on this video. Luckily, because it is sheeted with OSB, there has been no sag over the course of their life.
Oh I know now 😂 you and others have called that out and I thank you because I’ve fixed other projects since then. On a positive note, the OSB has kept it stable so I haven’t had any sag
You really should do more research before putting out "how to" videos. Wrong bracing, inadequate hinges, unprotected OSB on an exterior wall... I'm no carpenter and even I know better.
Yeah, I always struggle to find a balance between saying “this is how you should do it” and ”this is how I did it.” I don’t claim any special expertise, in fact, the whole purpose behind my channel is helping other folks to learn from my mistakes, and it is comments like this that help to point out what I’ve done wrong. That’s the weird thing about mistakes, you only know after the fact, or when someone points it out. In response to your comments, and some of the things that I’ve learned since building the door: - The bracing is absolutely wrong, a few other folks have pointed that out, and since then, I have corrected all my doors in the future. Fortunately, for me, the OSB on the outside properly skinned the doors and provided all the rigidity needed to keep the doors from sagging. - Regarding the hinges, I was right there with you in worrying about whether or not they would be adequate, but they have held up great over the years. - Regarding the unprotected OSB, that was actually on purpose, it is sitting about 10 feet inside of another barn door, which means they are never exposed to moisture or weather. It would certainly look nicer painted, but I didn’t paint them on purpose. Again, my whole goal is to learn and get better at this as I move forward. I do appreciate you pointing out anything that you think I’m doing wrong, because even if I did it on purpose or it worked as intended, it makes me rethink why I did it and if I would do it again or differently. Have a great day! Josh Northwest Craftsman
**NOTE**
I have since learned that the cross members should go the other direction. High in the middle, low on the hinge. Because, wood is like a whole bunch of fibers in a rope. When the door’s weight pulls on them, and causes tension, they can slip past each other (high on the hinge and low in the middle) But, if you put them in compression they won’t and the door is less likely to sag. Full disclosure, my door hasn’t sagged but I wanted to relay what I had learned.
Thank you all!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
I thought the same until I realized you used OSB. The OSB will distribute the forces fairly well and shouldn't sag. Any sag you end up with someday will likely come from where the hinges are screwed to the door.
Great point! That may be why it hasn’t sagged.
yes, should be fine. OSB is strong in shear when fastened to framing properly, will create a membrane, general suggestion for OSB door panel next time add glue on framing face, such as titebond III, OSB then screw 4-6" o.c. Paint entirely with good quality exterior paint.
I was going to say the same… If you can swap the doors with each other, then they should be in compression.
@@jeffweber8244man! I hadn’t even thought about that! Thats a great idea. Luckily the OSB has locked it in well. Otherwise, I’d likely do this 😂
Your diagonal door bracing is going the wrong way! They are supposed to go from the lower hinge to the upper opposite corner to support the weight to keep the doors from sagging. The way you have it they are being dragged down.
You’re totally right! I learned after the fast that I did this wrong. Luckily for me the doors haven’t settled but thank you for pointing this out.
Thanks for the tip
That's right. That diagonal, as build, is working under tension. were a steel wire or steel rod, wich works fine under tension, works great. But wood, especially it's joints, (almost) only works well under compression.
I was about to queation it too😂
Swap doors to other side and your good
Excellent video. Very thorough. I’m making 3 garage doors for my barn and will use your plan with some slight modifications. Thanks!
Glad to hear it! As noted by many other commenters, my brace is backwards for one made of wood. It should be in compression where this one is in tension and has more risk for sagging. Mine hasn’t because the OSB locks it all in but it is worth noting.
Good luck on your doors!
Nice instructions, thanks. I cut the boards to size first, then screwed the 2x4 to it. Saved lots of time. Plus I installed the hinges like a man door, so I have access to them anytime.
That’s a great idea! Especially since the OSB is a structural member it’s less about the 2x4’s alone.
Good idea on the hinges as well. I couldn’t do them like that since I screwed up my framing and one of the walls wasn’t plumb. But nominally, I think that’s better 😂
Great information, and so easy to understand 👏👍
Thanks Robbie! I'm glad you found it helpful!
Thanks, that was great
Glad you found it helpful!
Thanks, great video I've now used as a guide to put doors on my workshop in cold, wet England!
Fantastic! Well, hello from across the pond and I’d love to see some photos when you’re done!
Making sure the door doesnt hit anything as it swings out would 100% be something I forget to check until I have it all mounted and try opening it for the first time! Great advice!
Some might say those doors are. WELL HUNG ;)
See, the reason I think of those things is only because I’ve done things like that so many times 😂 glad you found it useful!
Mice and thieves. Last door I built the mice found a way in.
Very nice. Well done.
Thanks!
Nice video. Good details and explanation as to how/why.
Thanks Terry! 😄 glad you found it helpful!
Very helpful. Thanks
Glad you found it helpful!
fantastic video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cross brace works better under tension than stretched.
I have learned that since posting this video but appreciate you and folks like you letting me know because that’s how I learned 😊
Good job. For security, the hinges on the outside can be easily removed by thieves. Maybe use carriage bolts, washers, and nuts. A very real concern in our times.
That is a very fair point. Where we lived I wasn’t worried about thieves and the star bits still seem to be off enough to deter folks but you’re right, fastening to the inside would have been the most secure.
Very nice, but like many have said your bracing goes the wrong way… it’s not just for the look of a barn door… it’s for structural integrity.
Absolutely, I intended it for strength but you know 😂 on a positive note, the OSB sheeting has kept it rigid enough not to sag.
I wish I could find someone near me to help build doors like this for my garage, it has an old broken swing up door that’s very dangerous and I am physically handicapped to boot so I can’t open it at all. I have spent years trying to get it fixed or replaced and after many visits they all say there is nothing they can do. But this would definitely work.
Shoot! I'm so sorry to hear that. Seems odd that nobody would even quote it out. What part of the world are you in?
@@NorthwestCraftsman I’m in Utah, USA 😶 every person I have talked to only works with pre-manufactured stuff.
Oh, that’s silly. I mean it’d be more expensive to build something from scratch but out should be possible. Do you have any groups you’re a part of in the local community? A church, rotary club, or the like? They may have someone that’s handy enough to help you build something.
Mice can go through holes as small as 1/4 inch. Broom sweeps will not keep mice out. If you have mice in your area, something to keep in mind.
You’re totally right, doesn’t keep mice out worth a darn but does help with sealing the dust out from outside.
I was scared to death to build a door or now gonna be two doors because it’s not really that complicated.. niceeeeeee video thank you so much!!
I’m so glad my video could help you! It really is easier than most people think.
Good luck and happy woodworking!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
You might want to look up how a brace functions
your diagonals are backwards they should be,, from the hinge bottom to the middle of openning top
You’re totally right 😂 I’ve had ample feedback on my mistake a think I pinned a comment saying so. But again, you’re totally right 😂
This is how not to brace a door!!!!!
Oh I know now 😂 I got an earful for it, was it something else outside of reversing the brace?
If I were going to use a lap it would be a mitered one. 😉
Man I’m always learning which joint is which 😂 much appreciated.
Great video, thanks for all the detailed info, especially around tolerances.
How did you end up fixing the gap between the door and the side of the frame?
Great question! And I’m glad you enjoyed the video. The hinges were able to cover the gap so I hung the door straight and accepted the slightly larger gap near the top of the door. On the inside I have some garage door weather stripping which seals around my doors and covers this gap inside.
nice work! did you figure out how to seal those gaps from dust?
Thanks! And great question, I found a solution that works well enough. At the bottom I have some door sweeps and on the edges I have garage door gasket which just hugs the inside of the door. Works like a charm.
Thanks for the video. Apologies if stupid question but when you put the hinges on are the aligned to the wall or to the door (on the left side where you showed the growing gap? Thanks
Hey Alan! That’s actually a phenomenal question. The goal is for the doors to swing evening across the ground at all positions. To do this, the hinges need to have their swinging axis normal to the ground (plum to the floor) and aligned between all hinges. The axis can be imagined by drawing an imaginary line through the center of the hinges cylindrical portion. In my case, to make the hinge plum to the floor, I aligned it with my door since it was square and my frame was not. Let me know if that doesn’t quite answer your question, I can always shoot you an email with some pictures and drawings.
A door constructed from a solid piece of material shouldn’t sag anyway, regardless of bracing.
I dislike exposed screws on hinges
Yea, I’m in the same boat. If I was to do this over again, I’d rather have the hinges hidden.
I was hoping I would find another "clean-up Tour" where you removed dust from the rafters and all the elevated structure of the building. Did you do that and just not put it into a video? Your "tour" was May 22, "Shop Doors" was July 7, suggesting they are consecutive productions. I'd appreciate a response on cleaning the upper parts if you did it. Thanks in advance. DIFFERENT TOPIC: This is not an end of the world mistake, but the diagonal across the doors should go from the hinge side bottom to the handle side top. Wood is not isotropic like steel, meaning it does not have the same strength in tension as compression. It is much stronger in compression. You want the diagonals to be oriented the strong direction, compression, not tension as you have them. On the farm when I was growing up, a 16' gate that had the diagonals the wrong direction had to be taken apart and repaired about 5 years after installation because it sagged too much. Once we learned this error, we repaired the mistake as soon as we discovered it, usually during assembly, instead of waiting for it to sag first. We also found out that all the old-timers all knew that and kidded us about it for some time. Your doors are not that long so they might last longer without sagging. If they sag, you can always prop up the door like you did when hanging it, cut a notch in the existing diagonal and insert a new diagonal in the compression direction.
Yea, I skipped that second cleanup video which covered most of that work and though in general the videos are in chronological order to when they were filmed, that’s not always the case 😊
Thank you for your note! I just did some quick research and you’re totally right. I was thinking of doors supported by a cable which is quite anisotropic but beautiful in tension. Next time around I’ll make that adjustment. Thank you for the nugget!
A few flaws that I see... 1. You used chip board for an exterior wall. I will deteriorate much faster than plywood. 2. Your hinges are awfully weak for such a heavy door. They will give way much quicker too!
Thanks for your feedback Peter!
What you said is 100% correct but I didn’t show the entire context of the shop. The doors sit about 6’ inside of another entrance and are well protected from the elements. I agree though, Plywood is far more durable.
For the hinge, each was rated at something like 50-75 pounds which I calculated should roughly cover the weight of the door with 3 of them. So far so good, but that was another potential weak spot in the design that I planned to keep me eyes on 😂
Again, thanks for the feedback, it helps me to think through why I do what I do and to identify areas for improvement.
Have a great one!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman
@@NorthwestCraftsman Of course! Something else to consider on those hinges. That rating isnt taking the wind loads into factor. May I suggest hinges that are used on cattle panels? Last year I built a swing door for a lady who lived on the prairie. Her hinges were destroyed in a matter of weeks. I thought the same thing that the weight of the door was the only thing I had to consider. Just some food for thought.
Interesting! That’s good to know and I know exactly the type of hinge you’re talking about, that would be far more robust.
What thickness OSB did you use?
@@NorthwestCraftsman pressure treated plywood would be a bit better. paint is a consideration. Winds blow rains. When your non treated wood soaks up the rain it's going to get real heavy on those hinges.
Stop...wait.. Your diagonal door bracing is going the wrong way!
You’re totally right 😂 I have been called out an absolutely appropriate amount for this on this video. Luckily, because it is sheeted with OSB, there has been no sag over the course of their life.
Oops. You got the braces the wrong way round!
100% 😂 luckily for me the sheeting on the door kept it rigid enough to prevent any issues 😂
Your diagonal support is backwards. Don't take my word for it. Ask others.
Oh I know now 😂 you and others have called that out and I thank you because I’ve fixed other projects since then. On a positive note, the OSB has kept it stable so I haven’t had any sag
Dude. No. Bueno
Bro, this is all screwed up. I hate OSB. THANKS FOR THE TIPS. BUT ILL DO IY MY WAY.
You really should do more research before putting out "how to" videos. Wrong bracing, inadequate hinges, unprotected OSB on an exterior wall... I'm no carpenter and even I know better.
Yeah, I always struggle to find a balance between saying “this is how you should do it” and ”this is how I did it.” I don’t claim any special expertise, in fact, the whole purpose behind my channel is helping other folks to learn from my mistakes, and it is comments like this that help to point out what I’ve done wrong. That’s the weird thing about mistakes, you only know after the fact, or when someone points it out.
In response to your comments, and some of the things that I’ve learned since building the door:
- The bracing is absolutely wrong, a few other folks have pointed that out, and since then, I have corrected all my doors in the future. Fortunately, for me, the OSB on the outside properly skinned the doors and provided all the rigidity needed to keep the doors from sagging.
- Regarding the hinges, I was right there with you in worrying about whether or not they would be adequate, but they have held up great over the years.
- Regarding the unprotected OSB, that was actually on purpose, it is sitting about 10 feet inside of another barn door, which means they are never exposed to moisture or weather. It would certainly look nicer painted, but I didn’t paint them on purpose.
Again, my whole goal is to learn and get better at this as I move forward. I do appreciate you pointing out anything that you think I’m doing wrong, because even if I did it on purpose or it worked as intended, it makes me rethink why I did it and if I would do it again or differently.
Have a great day!
Josh
Northwest Craftsman