I’ve got a few interesting things to share, I am sure you’ve already looked into some of it already. I like your theory a lot, but I am still agnostic to it being the actual answer. I am rooting for you though. With that said, I think this is the most logical of the theories currently presented, and it is a promising speculation based on the evidence you have provided so far. Now on to the interesting speculative stuff I want to share! 1. Neolithic Polyhedra carved stone balls: These are mostly found in Scotland. Many were said to be made of “Greenstone” (more on this later). Just like the Roman Dodecahedron, their purpose is unknown, (some claim possible oracular use) and both objects represent evidence about knowledge of Platonic solids. They might have nothing to do with dodecahedron, but it is an interesting connection with the Platonic solids and especially the location where these have been found. 2. Roman Circular/Disc/Umbonate/Plate Brooches and Fibula: Some very interesting designs that might be consistent with dodecahedron. A lot of the designs of these brooches seem like a 2D stylized profile of a Dodecahedron in some ways. One flaw with this however is the preference for a hexagonal pattern for the brooches most like the Dodecahedron. With that said, pentagonal pattern disc brooches similar to the dodecahedron do exist. One fanciful thought I had while looking at some of the designs, what if a disc fibula could be a secret code wheel? I think unlikely as a code wheel, as many of these have been found, and I don’t recall any with letters. The 3rd century AD Værløse Fibula had elder futhark written on it. Still worth looking into. 3. the Pentagram itself: A lot of stuff here, quite a deep rabbit hole. I think there are two areas worth while. A. The mathematical side of things like you’ve already focused on, but especially with the Platonic Solids and the Pythagoreans. This here is also your direct Euclid connection. This is also your Carved Stone Balls connection. B. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight might shed some clues in the context of “greenstone”. Sir Gawain has the pentagram as his coat of arms and he is connected to the story of the Green Knight. In German, you also have the Drudenfuss, or elf’s foot, which is also the pentagram. I am not an etymology expert, but Drude, or an elf/alp/nocturnal spirit, it gives me “Druid” vibes. (Which could tie it back to the stone balls again.) I do think that the Pythagoreans and their mastery of mathematics, and specifically the platonic solids should not be underestimated with this. I think the probability is high that the Pythagoreans, (even if not directly involved with the dodecahedron), would have been a major influence from the mathematical side of things. Whoever invented these very likely had knowledge of the Pythagoreans.
Thanks very much for your encouraging reply ! Yes I think you are right that whoever invented the Roman Dodecahedron would have had knowledge of Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans.
I am following you along your remarkable path of solving this secret. My remark to the wooden disk: Your convincing validation relies completely on the wood shrinking and expanding in the right places. With the wood changing so much over time how can you be sure all of the holes kept their exact positions?
Hi Stefan - thanks very much for your interest in this mysterious puzzle. That's a really good question ! The honest answer is I don't know yet ! Presently, I am trying to gain the interest of someone who knows much more about ancient wood than I do (which is next to nothing at all ! ) All we know is that presently, the holes do line up with our geometry template. Surprisingly, the only thing I can think of presently is an analogy to a currant bun ! Maybe small distortions to external surface of the bun (shrinkage and expansion of the wood close to the periphery of the disk) does not have a major impact to the positions of the currants buried inside the bun (the holes) The other model to consider is, if you heat up the edge of a disk of metal that has holes in it, the metal expands noticeably but it has little impact on the holes closer to the centre of the disk. Cheers Matt
Trying to answer the question about the scutum. First of all: the history of ancient Rome has roughly four stages: 1. kingdom from 753 BCE, 2. republic from 509 BCE, 3. United Empire from 31 BCE, 4. Split into West and East in 395 CE with the West being gone in 476 CE and the East in 1453 CE. Throughout, the army obviously changed quite a bit. The scutum would not have been used that entire time. Also, with scutum, do you mean the rectangular ones with curved cross-section or do you include the oval ones as well? Early Rome used spears a lot, the republic and early empire had a more offensive force with swords (and scutum) and the late empire went back to spears with a more defensive force. Obviously, that's very simplified. At the battle of Teutoberg, 9 CE, an estimated 20,000 to 25,000 soldiers were killed. For the battle of Carrhae, General Crassus raised about 30,000 heavy infantry. The Battle of Cannae against Hannibal involved about 86,000 romans. So, nobody can really answer the question but the real answer is easily in the hundreds of thousands, possibly well over a million. I think I can see where you are going with that question. With so many made, how many survive to this day? Just one. They were made of wood so they would rot. I believe we do have many more metal rims and bosses, however.
Hi Gregg - thanks very much for your excellent answer ! I would say that your estimate is very accurate, and you are totally right with your assumption about the reason for my question - really nice work ! Cheers Matt
Hats off to you once again, Matt. Only a scientist or an engineer would think like that - I'm neither - so your geometrical analysis of the half circular disk provides further compelling evidence for me. January 2025 seems like a long way off and I look forward to seeing if the reverse side provides anything further.
Thanks very much for your interest and encouragement ! Yes - there does seem to be something esoterical going on here that presently, I cannot quite fathom. Using my 'x-ray vision' I am intrigued to see if there are any telling marks on the other side of the Vindolanda Disk, so we will just have to wait and see ! Cheers Matt
Outstanding work, Matt. Altough a straight line between the left pin hole (the only one not used for drawings) and the left pilot hole doesn't align with the theorical top pilot hole, maybe the distortion of the disk is the reason, or maybe it was placed incorrectly and that's why the disk was broken and discarded. Greetings
Had any high felutin' archaeologists interested yet. Would have thought they'd be bustin'for an exclusive. Give Mr De-Dunckin' a match to light the powder keg beneath their comfortable bots.
Thanks very much for your comments, Trev ! I am presently in discussion with the British Museum and the The Roman Army Museum, so will let you know if anything develops. I'm not really sure that anyone with any real archaeological knowledge about them would want to risk damaging their reputation by becoming associated with my theory, but I would love to be proved wrong ! Cheers Matt
@@Matt.Geevan anyone with any real archaeological knowledge would be avid to test it out,being seekers of truth, need some message tablets and disks .. what's the betting that evidence is already in storage, unknown item, from past digs or collectors in old boxes or draws? the ephemeral tablets , if wood could easily be concealed or disposed of it makes a good message medium I guess. I would be interested in reading personal accounts by local commanders (military) of the period if any survive , there should be written evidence of ciphers and their usage somewhere??
@trevsims2656 Thanks Trev ! I will be delighted to show you my next video in about 3 weeks time, with even more compelling evidence that I have just discovered ! This may explain the current map of the Roman Dodecaherons finds in the North Western Empire and why none have been found around the Mediterranean - keep you posted ! Cheers Matt
@@Matt.Geevan as soon as you started explaining, it was a light bulb moment, totally makes sense, also the intrinsic knowledge would have been kept secret as a matter of course. I have always wanted to correlate the dodecahedrons with where they're found and that would surely have shown links via hole sizes in time, most likely between persons of local and national importance ,and/or military 🤔 just how secretive we are as a species is wild, only just heard recently that the poles had been working on the enigma machine since the early 30s ! Standing on the shoulders of giants! I doff my hat to you sir.
@@associatedblacksheepandmisfits Thanks for your reply which is very interesting. Yes - the Polish Bureau were well ahead of the Brits at this early time in the war. You are 'spot on' about why the knowledge was kept secret ! Please note that I refer to the holes in The Vindolanda Disk as 'pilot holes' as I believe that once all the five pilot holes and the central hole had been bored, then the holes were opened up to their final required sizes. This method reduces the 'stress' placed on the disk material. Cheers Matt
@@associatedblacksheepandmisfits many thanks Black Sheep ! my latest video explains why there is no correlation between the sizes of the dodecahedrons and the hole sizes. th-cam.com/video/jin5fVedzqM/w-d-xo.html Cheers Matt
I’ve got a few interesting things to share, I am sure you’ve already looked into some of it already.
I like your theory a lot, but I am still agnostic to it being the actual answer. I am rooting for you though. With that said, I think this is the most logical of the theories currently presented, and it is a promising speculation based on the evidence you have provided so far.
Now on to the interesting speculative stuff I want to share!
1. Neolithic Polyhedra carved stone balls: These are mostly found in Scotland. Many were said to be made of “Greenstone” (more on this later). Just like the Roman Dodecahedron, their purpose is unknown, (some claim possible oracular use) and both objects represent evidence about knowledge of Platonic solids. They might have nothing to do with dodecahedron, but it is an interesting connection with the Platonic solids and especially the location where these have been found.
2. Roman Circular/Disc/Umbonate/Plate Brooches and Fibula: Some very interesting designs that might be consistent with dodecahedron. A lot of the designs of these brooches seem like a 2D stylized profile of a Dodecahedron in some ways. One flaw with this however is the preference for a hexagonal pattern for the brooches most like the Dodecahedron. With that said, pentagonal pattern disc brooches similar to the dodecahedron do exist. One fanciful thought I had while looking at some of the designs, what if a disc fibula could be a secret code wheel? I think unlikely as a code wheel, as many of these have been found, and I don’t recall any with letters. The 3rd century AD Værløse Fibula had elder futhark written on it. Still worth looking into.
3. the Pentagram itself: A lot of stuff here, quite a deep rabbit hole. I think there are two areas worth while.
A. The mathematical side of things like you’ve already focused on, but especially with the Platonic Solids and the Pythagoreans. This here is also your direct Euclid connection. This is also your Carved Stone Balls connection.
B. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight might shed some clues in the context of “greenstone”. Sir Gawain has the pentagram as his coat of arms and he is connected to the story of the Green Knight. In German, you also have the Drudenfuss, or elf’s foot, which is also the pentagram. I am not an etymology expert, but Drude, or an elf/alp/nocturnal spirit, it gives me “Druid” vibes. (Which could tie it back to the stone balls again.)
I do think that the Pythagoreans and their mastery of mathematics, and specifically the platonic solids should not be underestimated with this. I think the probability is high that the Pythagoreans, (even if not directly involved with the dodecahedron), would have been a major influence from the mathematical side of things. Whoever invented these very likely had knowledge of the Pythagoreans.
Thanks very much for your encouraging reply !
Yes I think you are right that whoever invented the Roman Dodecahedron would have had knowledge of Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans.
I am following you along your remarkable path of solving this secret. My remark to the wooden disk: Your convincing validation relies completely on the wood shrinking and expanding in the right places. With the wood changing so much over time how can you be sure all of the holes kept their exact positions?
Hi Stefan - thanks very much for your interest in this mysterious puzzle. That's a really good question ! The honest answer is I don't know yet !
Presently, I am trying to gain the interest of someone who knows much more about ancient wood than I do (which is next to nothing at all ! )
All we know is that presently, the holes do line up with our geometry template.
Surprisingly, the only thing I can think of presently is an analogy to a currant bun !
Maybe small distortions to external surface of the bun (shrinkage and expansion of the wood close to the periphery of the disk) does not have a major impact to the positions of the currants buried inside the bun (the holes)
The other model to consider is, if you heat up the edge of a disk of metal that has holes in it, the metal expands noticeably but it has little impact on the holes closer to the centre of the disk.
Cheers
Matt
Your on the right track..persist
your comments are much appreciated, Ernie !
Trying to answer the question about the scutum.
First of all: the history of ancient Rome has roughly four stages: 1. kingdom from 753 BCE, 2. republic from 509 BCE, 3. United Empire from 31 BCE, 4. Split into West and East in 395 CE with the West being gone in 476 CE and the East in 1453 CE.
Throughout, the army obviously changed quite a bit. The scutum would not have been used that entire time. Also, with scutum, do you mean the rectangular ones with curved cross-section or do you include the oval ones as well? Early Rome used spears a lot, the republic and early empire had a more offensive force with swords (and scutum) and the late empire went back to spears with a more defensive force. Obviously, that's very simplified.
At the battle of Teutoberg, 9 CE, an estimated 20,000 to 25,000 soldiers were killed. For the battle of Carrhae, General Crassus raised about 30,000 heavy infantry. The Battle of Cannae against Hannibal involved about 86,000 romans.
So, nobody can really answer the question but the real answer is easily in the hundreds of thousands, possibly well over a million.
I think I can see where you are going with that question. With so many made, how many survive to this day? Just one. They were made of wood so they would rot. I believe we do have many more metal rims and bosses, however.
Hi Gregg - thanks very much for your excellent answer !
I would say that your estimate is very accurate, and you are totally right with your assumption about the reason for my question - really nice work !
Cheers
Matt
Hats off to you once again, Matt. Only a scientist or an engineer would think like that - I'm neither - so your geometrical analysis of the half circular disk provides further compelling evidence for me. January 2025 seems like a long way off and I look forward to seeing if the reverse side provides anything further.
Thanks very much for your interest and encouragement ! Yes - there does seem to be something esoterical going on here that presently, I cannot quite fathom.
Using my 'x-ray vision' I am intrigued to see if there are any telling marks on the other side of the Vindolanda Disk, so we will just have to wait and see !
Cheers
Matt
Outstanding work, Matt. Altough a straight line between the left pin hole (the only one not used for drawings) and the left pilot hole doesn't align with the theorical top pilot hole, maybe the distortion of the disk is the reason, or maybe it was placed incorrectly and that's why the disk was broken and discarded.
Greetings
Thanks very much for your comments, Mariano ! I'm glad that you have found my discovery interesting.
Cheers
Matt
Had any high felutin' archaeologists interested yet. Would have thought they'd be bustin'for an exclusive. Give Mr De-Dunckin' a match to light the powder keg beneath their comfortable bots.
Thanks very much for your comments, Trev ! I am presently in discussion with the British Museum and the The Roman Army Museum, so will let you know if anything develops.
I'm not really sure that anyone with any real archaeological knowledge about them would want to risk damaging their reputation by becoming associated with my theory, but I would love to be proved wrong !
Cheers
Matt
@@Matt.Geevan anyone with any real archaeological knowledge would be avid to test it out,being seekers of truth, need some message tablets and disks .. what's the betting that evidence is already in storage, unknown item, from past digs or collectors in old boxes or draws? the ephemeral tablets , if wood could easily be concealed or disposed of it makes a good message medium I guess. I would be interested in reading personal accounts by local commanders (military) of the period if any survive , there should be written evidence of ciphers and their usage somewhere??
Good luck sir.. Be interesting to see how things develop.
@trevsims2656 Thanks Trev !
I will be delighted to show you my next video in about 3 weeks time, with even more compelling evidence that I have just discovered !
This may explain the current map of the Roman Dodecaherons finds
in the North Western Empire and why none have been found around the Mediterranean - keep you posted !
Cheers
Matt
Knowledge must be pursued thru discussion of opposing views, Great video!
Yes, absolutely - Thank You Paul !
More discs need found. Sounds legit to me.
Many thanks for your reply !
@@Matt.Geevan as soon as you started explaining, it was a light bulb moment, totally makes sense, also the intrinsic knowledge would have been kept secret as a matter of course.
I have always wanted to correlate the dodecahedrons with where they're found and that would surely have shown links via hole sizes in time, most likely between persons of local and national importance ,and/or military 🤔 just how secretive we are as a species is wild, only just heard recently that the poles had been working on the enigma machine since the early 30s ! Standing on the shoulders of giants! I doff my hat to you sir.
@@associatedblacksheepandmisfits Thanks for your reply which is very interesting.
Yes - the Polish Bureau were well ahead of the Brits at this early time in the war.
You are 'spot on' about why the knowledge was kept secret !
Please note that I refer to the holes in The Vindolanda Disk as 'pilot holes' as I believe that once all the five pilot holes and the central hole had been bored, then the holes were opened up to their final required sizes.
This method reduces the 'stress' placed on the disk material.
Cheers
Matt
@@Matt.Geevan any correlated info on sizes and where found ?
@@associatedblacksheepandmisfits many thanks Black Sheep ! my latest video explains why there is no correlation between the sizes of the dodecahedrons and the hole sizes. th-cam.com/video/jin5fVedzqM/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
Matt
Yes i am entertained
Thanks very much for your comment !
Can't wait until January 2025 🙂
Absolutely ! Though I think that the evidence that I will provide in my next video out soon will be equally engaging !