My first thought was some sort of corner hitch for horse straps (or maybe iron bars/tent pegs), but I then wondered why the different sizes of holes. But when you came back to the map, then I thought that the Celtic tribes were much bigger users of chariots and hobby horses than the Romans were. Are there other technologies that were similarly associated with regions that would fit?
I believe it to be a British-Romano Shamanistic instrument. It is a type of Chumpi Khuya Stone that the shaman in Peru use. The spheres on the corners allow the object to move across flat surfaces with ease (around the body). The dodecahedron shape was seen in a psychedelic hallucination by a shaman who lived back then and who had the knowledge of how to forge metal. He copied what he had seen in a vision. The shaman would travel and meet other shaman, and inform them of this new instrument they are using; to engage the body’s natural energy system. The holes in the panels allow energies in and out, depending on how the shaman needs to heal the person he/she is tending to. See: Chumpi Khuya Stones used by Peruvian Shaman. There is a video on TH-cam on how the Shaman use them. The stones are golf ball to baseball in size. They are carved into 3 dimensional shapes, have sphere nodules, and patterns cut into them. Ultimately, this is just a guess.
I've always had a theory about what those metal balls are Your in a siege party or raiders/invaders 1. take object 2. Add a small amount of sheep wool/goat hair thats been soaked in alcohol 3. ignite 4. Load into sling / throw onto flammable roofs. 5. Burn them to the ground from distance. They would also more than likely be reusable. The metal nubs around outside would give grip Just a theory, but it fits well in my mind Different versions, different makers
It’s either for putting in your tumble dryer to keep your togas fluffy or you fill it with peanut butter and garum to keep the dog amused whilst you pop out to the forum for a while…
My personal hypothesis is that they are proof of skill. A literal Masterpiece. If you're a traveling blacksmith seeking work across the northern roman empire how do you prove your skills? You make a standard shape that requires a multitude of different skills and artistry to make.
Ive thought the same thing. Like a lot of trade guilds still do today. If you look up a "turners cube" or "machinists cube" you'll see the exact same sort of behavior. In thousands of years, people are going to find them and wonder what the heck they were for.
You make a good point Alexander. I don't think you could forge this piece very easily but maybe it could be cast using the lost wax process. I wonder if they know what it was made from and how?
Except they are made of bronze, not iron or steel. I would imagine they made a version of the thing out of beeswax, and then packed oiled fine sand tightly inside of it and around it with a channel for the bronze to be poured in and another channel for it to run out of or breathe as its being poured. Then heat the mold so the molten wax comes out, and then pour in the molten bronze. I'm assuming that sand casting was a thing back in the western Roman Empire era
Line up two holes and look through them (smaller hole closest) ,then by placing an eye so that the circumferences of the holes match, you have a fixed angle of view. If you look at a standard staff in the distance, and try various combinations of holes, you can determine the distance. So it's a surveying tool.
It's a candle holder. There was no standard width for candles, so variable hole sizes. The nubs are feet, so that it isn't flush with a table, prevents wax seal from forming. Important enough in a world without electricity that they are all over the empire. Unimportant enough to not record them. The ones we have are probably the expensive ones. Certainly there would be lots of different versions made of wood, etc. A couple of the ones which have been recovered have wax residue on them.
if the holes were meant to hold a candle one would expect the holes on opposite sides of the dodecahedron to be the same size, they're not. and that doesnt explain the existence of the icosahedron, whose holes are tiny.
One day future archeologists will discover a strata of human refuse full of fidget spinners and spend the next 200 years trying to work out their religious significance.
It's certainly possible however looking at the detail i can't imagine it being easy to make which to me rules out snake oil since it would of had to be sold for rather high value to make anything from it. For them to have lasted so long in such good condition and intricate designs with no wear suggests to me that the objects was of high value and something to be looked after
The fact that the holes are different sizes on each face must be a vital clue to its use. However, they are different on each dodecahedron and are not standardised. One suggestion I saw on another thread is that it's a fancy stand for something, with the knobs acting as feet so that it stands level. This suggestion mentioned that small round-bottomed phials for something valuable like perfume/incense/medicine could be stood on it, using the most appropriately sized hole.
your observation was great! its used for cyphering, different holes correspond to the decoding wheel used to tell what the code was to encode, different faces have different holes which fit only one of the encryption faces with roman alphabet.
But if so, why not found all over the Roman Empire? The different sized holes and the knobs look very like what we call “French knitting” cotton reels. I still like the idea that they were used in cold climates to home weave gloves, socks or other items. Any child can use a French knitting reel.
Bronze Age and later, pots had ball feet. I tend towards a regionalised cultural icon of some sort. Not many have been found which is also strange unless the intricacy of them restricted numbers. Expensive so only for the top people, yet they do not appear in tombs I presume.
@@christopherdavies7213 Then why was it found in forts and near borders and battles? Isn't it easier to deliver finished gloves to the soldiers than to deliver knitters to the soldiers? In addition, leather gloves are more practical or no gloves at all, especially if you use weapons such as swords and bows. With the cold in Britain and Germania, they would probably have thought better of wearing socks than gloves.
In their time, it was common practice to shave the edges of coins - ie remove some material. This was so common, that virtually no coins in circulation were full diameter anymore. A way to classify the remaining diameter of metal was needed that could be used to calculate the 'value' of a coin presented - and the person that did the calculating was more often than not - a tax collector. So this is why you see these in places far from Rome, where the paying was being done, and lots of coin shaving was underway. Low value materials like copper were bigger coins, and high value materials like silver were smaller diameter - thus why you needed lots of sizes, and the reason for the finely made measuring tool - was so you couldn't copy it - ie make a fake.
@@blimm2341But then what are the noddules on the corners for. Plus a much easier and simpler way to see if a coin had been shaved, would be to just compare the coin to an untampered coin.
@@fafski1199 There were many different types of coins in diameter and thickness. Maybe a piece of leather or metal or string of some type used on the nodules to measure thickness. This was just my first thought on what it might be. I have several ideas listed in the comments of what It could be used for.
Just saw a video by Amy Gaines channel that demonstrates these were most likely used for making gold chains, referred to as "Viking Gold Wire Knitting" (or close to that term). Once knitted, its drawn thru progressively smaller holes to draw the wires down to the desired chain diameter.
After watching the Amy Gaines video I’m sold on her theory! It not only works it makes sense! Got to research “Viking gold wire knitting” now, and whether the Celts used this type of ‘knitted’ gold chain.
thanks, the video was pretty convincing. It reminded me so much of the french knitting we used to do at school, using an empty wooden cotton reel not so very different in size, with nails projecting out for wrapping the yarn around. I like this theory for: >identifying functions for 2 aspects of this artefact: the knobs for knotting the wire into a pattern; and the pairs of matching opposite holes, in 6 sizes, for drawing the "knitted'' wire through, into a smooth and even diameter. >Also, threading wire makes sense for the similar device that has twenty sides (i.e. 10 pairs of holes ) of much smaller diameter. It could be for thinner chains, or for evening out single strand wire; the principle seems to be the same. >finally, this device would have been expensive, it's complex and involved a lot of work to make.Too pricey for household use if something simpler and cheaper would have done the job, especially if made out of wood. It seems logical to me that the cost of this device could only be justified if used in the manufacturing of something expensive -- such as gold wire jewellery.
@@sus8e462 And fancy rope, too. I think there are even earlier vids that explain why it is a “knitting” device. But isn’t it interesting, and ominous, how much discussion there has been which totally ignores this useful explanation?! Kind of representative of our times: MORE information is quite often LESS.
@@sandra4999san not sure if ominous, but with means to share ideas globally, a bigger audience & more ideas/theories! (Though lots more to dig thru to find the real gems, too, though yes, how quickly misinformation can spread & critical thinking & logic isn't applied).
And don't forget, when they find absolutely any site with no immediate reason of use, it's 'a place of worship'. I swear, ancient societies had 15 'places of worship' per square meter... like they never had anything else to do besides hunt for wild pigs and then sacrifice them..
@@marumiyuhimeThat's not why the places are mis-called holy sites. And it isn't what the sites were used for. Your misplaced pedantry damages the conversation and reveals your immaturity.
Fidget spinners where ubiquitous across the world for a solid minute, I imagine they would confound archeologists if found out of context, because they really had no context.
Very good point. What would defeat any future-archeologists of course, is the sheer mass of our stuff. Just you turn your head, and look at the contents of your room, now imagine just describing it all for the catalogue. Not coming up with the use or uses, not the relationships between the various artifacts . . . just record them all. All or almost all of it, very very durable, far more durable than any roman artifact could have been.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 What do you own that's more durable than bronze? 🤨 I suppose my crockery and glassware might last 2000 years, with a lot of luck, but that stuff isn't modern.
They were relatively rare, so not for a common purpose Expensive and difficult to make, so not for something mundane Made in different sizes, with different sized holes, or none at all, so not a precision instrument Made with different materials, including gold No symbols or annotations, so likely not a measuring device No sign of wear, so not overly used Not found universally in the Roman empire, so either required local resources, or a particular culture They were not common enough to be mentioned by writers, and not rare and high class enough to be mentioned by writers ...
@@ChelleLlewes Compared to many hundreds of thousands of coins or vases, they are rare. We've unearthed a great deal of Roman culture at this point. Not saying there isn't / aren't more, but relatively speaking, they are hardly ubiquitous.
IDK were I saw or heard this, but my favorite Hypothesis is that it is a tool for knots/ropes. The protrusions may stop the rope from jumping around, the different sizes obviously for different Diameter ropes. The circles around openings would act as a welds (or similar to corrugated metal) to strengthen the metal from the pull of the ropes, preventing it from tearing. They are constantly found in places where ropes would be used for hauling heavy materials. PLUS: you said they are found in Celtic region, and I think most associated the Clets with knots sooooo there's that....
If you had four of them, you could place small poles in the holes to form a frame for a tent, with cross members for strength. Then place a canvas over it. That's what I see every time I see one. It's for the corners of a tent.
Expensive corners you have there. Beautifully, perfectly made, totally professional and precise corners. Sorry, it could be used like that quite obviously, but it don't believe it. But its value with the workmanship...
@@MadAnthonyI You might be onto something. They aren't finding them by the thousands, so they wouldn't be for the common soldiery. But it was a known fact that high ranking officers had very opulent traveling accommodations, so perhaps this theory isn't wrong, so much as it is just for the elite.
Nice idea but doesn't the icosahedron contradict that though? There's no way you're getting a tent-pole through that and yet...it's clearly a variation on the same kind of object.
@@origaminosferatu3357 not thru it, but a notched end into a hole a couple inches. If you had one in each corner you could have a cubicle shaped frame and the crossbars for strength.
Solved? The Roman Dodecahedron a TH-cam video by Amy Gaines. She only has a couple of hundred subscribers, so that's probably why nobody has trumpeted her theory from the rooftops. It's so coherent and well argued a theory and she shows exactly how the dodecahedrons were used to make ornamental chains. I'm sure she needs greater recognition for an astonishing insight. It's genius and so obvious and simple when you see it.
Probably a gambling game that had wooden pegs that fit in the unique sized holes. You role the dodecahedron and the holder of peg that fits the top hole wins the pot. 🎉
@@Forest-iv5vm they would be additional effort if these are made out of wrought iron. But from what I’ve read they are actually cast from Bronze, so with a lost wax method, maybe it’s not too much more work.
I think,its a clever fits all sizes candlestick holder. It appears you would always have a flat side on top. Candles were important but not standard in size so you could buy any size without having to trim them.
Candle stick holder? Not a bad idea. But why not in found in Italy. Maybe in Italy they were all melted down to make other stuff from it, like coins or cups?
@@IrisHammesfahr The Romans had wicked dipped candles made from beeswax and tallow, but was probably more common for the wealthy whereas oil lamps were used by common people. I think just like today the popularity of gadgets could have gone up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if we find out these things were only made over a short span of time.
For telling fortunes. The supplicant asks his question silently. The mage throws the object at their forehead; whichever knob stuck, that's the answer.
I’ve said this in a few other videos about this object: The object can only be one thing: A tool to make the one thing everyone needed until guns: Arrows. Or larger ones wound make spears. - How? Like metal extrusion. Take a straight stick and pull it through the largest openings, then pull it through the next smallest openings. Maybe through the same way a few times. When your are done, you have a smooth straight shaft. The balls on the outside are so you can hold it in your hand with a good grip. Or wedge it in the crux of tree branches. There is really no other explanation. A simple, cheap, but elegant tool to make arrows out of sticks.
Or just a gauge. Dowels would have been used almost universally in millions of long perished items.. including arrows and spears. Maybe arrows were sorted post manufacture into bundles with similar heft and diameters. Archers could then select their preferred weight and achieve consistency when practicing.
I feel similar to Alexander below. Given that there is only one per location and there tends to be usually one smithy in the village, that it was made for use by a blacksmith, but not as a masterpiece. Could it be a gauge? For the thickness of things like nails or spear shafts?
Possibly for sorting arrow shafts. Romans shipped arrowheads by the barrel, then fitted shafts as needed. Cut branches from coppiced trees will have all ranges of diameters. The arrowheads were cast in bronze in different sizes. A gauge is needed to conveniently sort and cut branches for fitting to the heads / selecting the correct head for the branch. There is one report of one found with a batch of arrowheads. Larger dodecahedron for larger diameter tools/spear shafts? The icosahedron with small holes a copy of the gauge approach but for some other purpose altogether
Rule number 1 in dodecahedron club? Never explain anyhing about it so that the money never stops... Trust me, everyone is going to get rich, and laid! Dodecahedron club for life! People are going to be so amazed a couple thousand years from now.
And they'd mostly be right if they said it was for ritual purposes! It's not an _organized_ ritual, but messing with a fidget spinner to distract yourself from other things is still a ritual.
Perhaps the balls allowed the user to hang the object from a string, and each know is located so that a certain pair of whole aligns with the horizon. ???
For this to work the holes would need to be precisely calibrated and some sort of scale would be present. Neither is the case. There are far simpler primitive rangefinders that can be made without messing about with bronze dodecahedrons.
Wouldn't they be more consistent then? And also that only works if you know exactly how large the object you're looking at is and these have never been found together with the land surveying tools we know the Romans used.
I have never seen this before, but looking at it, it looks like a great tool for sticking on a post and using the balls to loop strings around for repeatable angles in construction.
But they aren't particularly interesting/useful angles for construction. And why aren't there versions with different polyhedra to give different angles? Why don't they show varying amounts of wear?
I've spent the last week obsessed with this and my conclusion is that it was a land surveying tool used and designed by the druids. Look at the paper written by Willem A Jorg last year. Only theory I've found that has no major flaws. And no it wasn't for knitting gloves 😂
Indulge me and have a look at the several youtube channels showing socks and gloves being easily knitted on these. The holes suit several finger sizes including thumbs. The other one shown with 25 sides throws doubt on this theory of course.
Pretty straight forward. Its a gatherer for wooden poles to support tenting - a rain cover. The small 'balls' could be for ties - down ropes. What did roman soldiers do when ir rained? Carry on marching? No. They wanted fast, easy to assemble rain covers. Highly likely that the objects could have been linked with wooden poles to create a bigger shelter. Easy to make different sizes and simple to use. A universal shape.
why would all the holes be different sizes then? why do none of them show signs of wear? as one would expect if they were subjected to strong forces like wind blowing against a tent and putting stress on the wooden poles in the holes and the string tied around the balls?
I’m embarrassed to say this but fit a dowel through same size holes then using the appropriate knobs weave wire into chain mail. Having progressed to a given length pull the knitted form through progressively smaller opposite holes and it automatically weaves tightly. Silver or gold necklaces beautifully woven can be done this way. Excellent tool and valuable in its day....
It looks as if the problem has been solved. The technique of use is similar to french Knitting but in the case of this dodecahedra it is a used for the 'knitting' of gold wire into necklaces and by continuously passing through the varies diameter holes the necklace can be made very fine and delicate. Check out French Knitting which used to be a popular playground activity in English schools.
Hi Paul, a fantastic tale to tell on a fantastic agger!! Clearly this is the insides of a Roman Rubrics cube, where are the coloured faces? Well after discovering that nothing worked, nothing turned they took a hammer to them ....... at least that's what happened to my Rubrics cube anyway ..... I wonder if we will ever find out. Great subject and really well presented. All the best!!
What stands out to me from the distribution map is that the majority were found in areas where lots of troops were present - in other words near the European borders of the Empire. I think it's therefore likely that it is connected, if only tangentially, to soldiering. Something else to note is the specific time period these were supposed to date from - around the 2nd to the 4th cemtury. This would seem to belie the claim that they are of Celtic origin as we would expect to have found examples dating significantly earlier than that. During this period, Mithraism became popular with the army before being largely supplantes by Christianity. One could speculate a potential link here.
@@scottgoodman8993 I never suggested they weren't stationed elsewhere. You're ignoring what I pointed out though - if these are Celtic in origin then we would expect to have found examples that predate the 2nd century. And by the 4th century, the inhabitants of Gaul and Illyria had a very strongly Romanized culture, so it seems very improbable that such artifacts would continue being made. Furthermore, we would also expect to have found them in regions populated by Celts outside the Roman Empire. Furthermore, there is a huge geographical distribution - from Northern Britain to the Danubian frontier. The Celts living in these places did not have a single material culture and there's no reason to expect them to have produced such similar objects. If this were so, then we could also have expected to find them in Iberia and Northern Italy, where Celts also settled, and we haven't.
@@patavinity1262 That would depend on when the dodecahedron developed and for how long it persisted. It is quite possible that it developed in a Romano-Celtic context, spread through those trade networks for a short time and then disappeared. My current hypothesis is for less than a century, 4-5th CE
Too elaborate for spaghetti. Also, I don’t think Roman’s had stringed noodles like we have today. They had a flattened noodle like lasagna. I think if I remember right, it was Marco Polo that brought back the noodle from Asia that we have today.
It is a tool used by architects to determine a straight line and angles from point A to B and C to D and... etc. It works by looking through the hole 🕳️ from one such object to multiple other identical objects off in the distance. It was used by ancient architects for surveying work prior to construction. Such objects are found in India.
I'd never come across this puzzle, Paul. Fascinating. Having watched the video and read the comments, I'm leaning towards the "proof of skill" explanation. At least no one (in the comments on your video, anyway) seems to have gone down the "it's alien!" route.
Someone came close to calling it alien...idiot decided these have a connection to the atomic bomb. Talks about "the ancients'" technology. There's always gotta be some clown....
It's used for quickly assembling a tent. They work exactly like the crown of an umbrella, with openings for posts and/or ropes, the nodules being used as lashing points. Various designs of shelter could be improvised by someone with minimal skills or materials and in a variety of circumstances. It's no coincidence they're found in areas being occupied by an invading expedition force.
I thought that initially, but they were found over a wide area in the Empire - but not wide enough for it to have become a standard test such as a guild's test. Its one of the better explanations though. I still think it must have had a religious element to it or identification of a tribe or sub-culture personally.
Can I please throw my two peneth worth in favour of the glove making tool. 1. Experimental Archaeology has shown they do work for that purpose. 2. The distribution. Oh look does that maybe match the colder bits of the Empire where gloves would be most valuable? 3. They are too ornamental to be mundane. Craftspeople like to have good looking varients of their tools. That is true now so why would it not be true then. 4. There should be more of then. Maybe the majority were made of less durable materials so have perished, the ones we have left are the 'high class' ones. (see point 3) 5. Possible celtic origins as another explanation for the distribution. Not mutually exclusive with point 2. Maybe they were, maybe the pre-Roman o es were made of perishable material. The romans bring improved metal working and metal versions get made. 6. The icosahedron. This could be a tool for a similar task, hence same solution. However it doesn't have to be exactly the same task. It could be a prototype for an attempt at a new versions. It could be someone attempting to replicate the dodecahedron from a bad descriptio. That's just the explanations I san come up with off the top of my head.
Glove making. That's an intriguing hypothesis. Various hole sizes for finger sizes. Yarn would remain organized as it was wrapped around the knobs and brought in to be woven into form. Off the top of my head, I would think that rods of various sizes would work better: weaving around a rod seems an easier task than maintaining a diameter defined by a hole through which it passes, but I would have to see it being used. I have read a lot about expeditions, mainly in the exploration of North America, and have often read about the amount of time the men spent repairing boots, darning socks and patching other articles of clothing. A jig which someone could use to make gloves that fit well and could be worn while working would be handy, indeed. It would be interesting to see how the fingers would then be attached to the rest of the glove and how, in fact, that part would be fashioned. Definitely a leading hypothesis in my mind at this point.
But then the size should be roughly the same but we've found that giant one, unless you're suggesting the Romans were making woolen gloves for giants that seems like it kills the theory dead. I guess you could claim that this was also just a failed attempt to make one but at this point you're throwing away a lot of evidence to fit your theory. There's also the minor issue that the earliest evidence of knitting comes from the 11th century, if we really stretch our definition we can at most go back to the 2nd century in Roman Egypt, but that's not anywhere near where these objects were found. Just because something is common today doesn't mean you can assume it has always been common.
It looks like it’s designed so that if it’s thrown or rolled, the object would always stop with a face up. It may have been something similar to dice… or something meant to always be level. The Romans were known to spend a lot of time on games and recreation, so anyway… that’s what the object looks like it has a design for.
But the differing sized holes would mean that the side with the smallest hole, thus most mass, would tend to be landed on the most. Sort of like 'loaded' dice.
@@gillie-monger3394 and yet, they don't show much wear from being rolled and we don't find broken ones... nor is there a 'scoring' system. I can't see the 'game' angle.
@@Ripper218 😊 my thought too. Gambling game. 1 in 12 chance the ball drops out. If the ball was smaller (say fitted in 2nd from largest hole) then 1 in 6 chance etc. Balls made from wood would not necessarily have survived, so a missing component.
I first saw this device recently in a youtube video, the guy's very well thought out and demonstrated thesis is that it is an encryption device used by military posts to encrypt messages. he shows through demonstration how the device could do this, it's not insane and a very possible practical use of this enigmatic little thing.
My hypothesis for what its worth is its a game, something similar to dice, where you would put a ball of a certain size in side, and roll it and the winner would be whoever rolled it and the ball came out the bottom, great video, got he thinking :)
This. For divining fortune, for casting lots, for settling minor disputes, for gambling. Probably with a simple clay ball rolled on the spot with some spit and dirt. A very useful tool for that culture.
In Roman times, a dodecahedron might have been used for spatial reasoning in various ways: * **Architecture**: Roman architects and engineers might have used the dodecahedron as a model for designing and building structures, such as temples, palaces, or aqueducts. The shape's symmetry and geometric properties could have been applied to create aesthetically pleasing and functional buildings. * **Geometry and measurement**: The dodecahedron's 12 pentagonal faces and 20 vertices could have been used to demonstrate geometric concepts, such as proportions, symmetry, and spatial relationships. This might have helped Roman mathematicians and engineers develop their understanding of spatial reasoning and measurement. * **Art and design**: Roman artists and craftsmen might have used the dodecahedron as a model for creating intricate designs, patterns, and ornaments. The shape's unique properties could have inspired the creation of decorative elements, such as mosaics, sculptures, or jewelry. * **Astronomy**: The dodecahedron's symmetries and geometric properties might have been used to model the movements and relationships of celestial bodies, such as planets and stars. This could have helped Roman astronomers develop their understanding of the solar system and the movements of celestial bodies. While there is no direct evidence of the dodecahedron being used in Roman times, its geometric properties and symmetries would have been well-suited for various applications in architecture, engineering, art, and design.
Architecture seems very likely, that would help explain why they didn’t need to be the same size. Use 2 or more of these with string to plot out precise angles that we no longer see used in more modern architecture. The 90 degree angle was called “the angle of sorrow” for a reason.
@@traceyoung5592 Before I read the last line in your reply I thought exactly the same, asetics don't seem to enter the equation these days, I didn't know about the ninety degree angle of sorrow, thanks for that gem. Really enjoy your content, thanks.
perfect for making perfect angles, carpenter or architect's tool. if you're building a temple or palace type structure just stick a dowel in the right size hole and set it against a surface to check or mark the angles. building a bridge or aquaduct or anything else that needs to be precise for the engineering to work, it could save the whole project from failure.
Regarding the Roman Dodecahedron, the proposed purpose that I like most is “Candle Holder”. -The holes fit various sizes of candles, since there was no standardized manufacturing -Heavy and stable - very important with a burning candle -Will not catch fire when candle burns down -Rings on each face catch dripping wax (which was found on some of them) -The ball feet keep it stable on irregular surfaces -The Dodecahedron are found in the northern parts of the Roman Empire where winter nights are longer and candles were more necessary and valuable.
In my campaign, characters used dice to gamble or settle minor disputes (like whose turn it is to pay the bar tab) all the time. It's just convenient since the player already has them to hand, but the rules don't have to have anything to do with D&D. One of the more common games is just craps with two eight-sided dice instead of six-sided, and the win/lose rolls are of course different. I fully believe people were gambling with these devices, regardless of what they were designed for. Bored soldiers will gamble with anything that generates random-ish results.
Great video, Paul! I just asked Google how many Roman gods/goddesses there were, and it said 12! (Although there were actually a lot more than that, but 12 major ones)
also the celts had definitely more than twelve gods, but their importance varied from tribe to tribe - and at the time of origin of these objects (second to fourth century) theyve been all merged by roman religion ("gallo-roman culture").
I know what it is. As a child my sister made me a knitting Cotten reel. It was a Cotten bobbin / reel with four small nails in one end. As I can recall you fed a piece of wool or two treads of differently coloured wool and by pulling the thread through the main holes you can hook the thread over each of the nails in turn pulling the tail you can create a knitted tail. The one you have is obviously un used or even unfinished the pommels take the place of the nails in my childhood knitting toy. Once the knitted tails are long enough even many metres they can be wound and sewn together to form hats or shawls ,blankets or even mats.
@@beaudilecaliste6545 Correct, it's not. The differently sized holes wouldn't make differently sized knitted fingers for gloves, because the pegs would still be at the same distance, and that's what controls how big the knitted tube turns out.
I love the knitting theory for sentimental reasons, but from what I've read it's a purely speculative theory and some examples of dodecahedra have vastly different measurements and wouldn't be practical knitting aids at all. If they were intended to be used as knitting tools, you'd expect all of them to be usable as such. Similarly, if they were a measurement tool or a navigation device, they ought to have similar dimensions, but they don't seem to have been standardised. The fact that they were found mainly in the Northern parts of the empire does suggest that their use is either uniquely suited to colder weather, or that they come from the culture of the people who were there before the Romans, or they were used for a technology that wasn't useful in the Mediterranean region but was useful elsewhere. Apart from the "gloves and socks" theory, I've heard speculation about these being a construction aid for military tents, or a cooking aid used in military camps. I think if it were either of these, we'd have found more of them or at least a written reference.
The knitting theory makes sense because if they were all different sizes, they were owned by people with different sized hands. The tiny ones maybe used for infants and toddlers. The holes may have corresponded to finger circumference. The bigger ones used for socks. So many theories have been presented and all have their 'flaws' but maybe someday AI will figure out what these were used for and settle the debate with solid evidence by using the device for it's intended purpose.
@@ichitoburrito1359 holes that are big enough to knit socks with would need more knobs around the edges though, which they don't have. And you don't knit baby gloves with individual fingers - for one, because babies don't learn to use individual fingers until they're several months old, and also individual fingers cool off more quickly (especially with tiny hands) which is why mittens would be the better choice. You simply don't need tiny holes for fingered kid's gloves.
There are 2 believable uses for it. #1 knitting a tool for knitting a glove. It uses each hole to size each finger as knit around a side until each finger is done ( & connected from previous knitted finger) , them knit the palm to finish the glove. Nice to have good, easily made gloves wherever you are! #2. A device for writing & decoding secret messages. The size if the hole relates to a particular disk so letters can be transposed If you have a matching key- the lettered decoding disk with the right size hole. Both seem possible & there are videos showing both usages.
I like the theory that they are to test coin sizes to make sure they are the correct size and havnt been snipped. Dont forget, roman coins were made of gold and silver, so the metal itself was precious. And heres my theory for the future: in a society that has either surpassed electricity or reverted to pre electrical technology, phones and tablets will be found. Archeologists will assume that they had a religious purpose. They are called The Black Stones of Wisdom. "We dont know exactly what they did, but we presume it was a religious purpose. They are usually black, but sometimes white. We presume that the black ones were owned by the lay people, while the white ones were owned by the priest class."
Birthstones from the springs of evolution.. they reflect the colour of incoming meteorites. Lava marbles firing up from Earth to meet the meteorites just as Earth capacitor electricity meets lightning strikes. Equal and opposites forces that first created our sacred spring waters of birth.. yes ours are black when Earth wins the waters over white hot alien meteorites. Ruling St.Alien (stall Lyons - slag/glas Rhinestone ‘stallions’) are white rot virus lite weights like chalkasian/euro pjumice type Lymes stanes of St.Germanus🏴 etc from the Great Dying Event of tHeir 1st Ytrot viruS coming 95%☠️
I've spent a lot of time trying to figure these things out (even had my own go at casting one - it did not go completely well). All of the 'practical' explanations for these objects fail to fit all of the known examples - for example 'taper gauge' is a common idea, but doesn't fit the examples where the opposing holes are the same size; 'knitting loom for gloves' is another one, but again, would be terribly impractical with some of the examples where the holes are very small. This is true of all of the explanations I've seen - they fit only a subset of examples.
**That is a Field Spear Sharpener.** With a hot enough fire in the field, the object can be used to sharpen the tips of spears by using the holes to find one that fits your current spear tip condition. Then using heat make it smaller by progressively using one smaller hole at a time, twisting the spear point in and spinning it. Then applying more heat and moving to the next hole. When you are done, everyone will have a sharp spear of the same point thickness. This would not leave wear on the device as the metal is hot and easily shaped with very little contact friction. Although heat damage may be present, they could also solved that problem by using an alloy to avoid that issue. This is valuable because you do not need a blacksmith, just a process and fuel to start a fire hot enough and you follow the process. It becomes idiot proof and you get a consistent outcome. Bringing an army into Italy without Senate permission was considered a serious breach of law and a threat to civil order. They had no use for weapons at home. This is why they were not found in Italy and only on the front and various places fighting took place they were needed. The balls double as decoration and also keep the ball off the surface and level when placed on a surface for use for better footing as each side has raised rings that compromises the flat surface if they were not present. They are not easy to make, so they are not many and had a single purpose used during fighting so was not widely shared. I would imagine some mention in soldier diaries or soldier training/field manuals of the day. Could have also been bespoke, ad-hoc fashioned in the field by one dude that became popular meme with the foot soldiers, never documented.. My guess anyhow!
It's part of a game of chance the soldiers played. These once had a wooden ball inside that would only pass through the largest hole . You toss it and if the ball pops out you win. It could also be a range finder to estimate the days travel.
One thing you need to remember is that these items did not look the same as they would have when they were made and used. Today, they're covered in a layer of oxide, giving them a dark color, but when they were new, they would have been polished to a bright and shiny gold color.
@@feliciagaffney1998 The other thing is the state of iron smithing in Classical times. Iron was hard to works with and the products were low quality, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any really good black smiths that could make these things.
Yes, I have always thought that too. It's shape means it could bounce unpredictably, which is perfect for a flutter Perhaps it was bounced off a wall and where it fell mattered. I've watched my son throw his similarly shaped balls (not quite dodecahedrons), and it's design provides the necessary challenge in catching it.
Yup, it's definitely up there on the list. The holes increase in size as you go around the object in most cases. But why not all over the Roman empire?
The five regular (or “Platonic”) solids are the only closed, plane-faced objects that can be constructed with regular polygons as faces, meeting at the same three-dimensional angles. They are the dodecahedron (12 faces), icosahedron (20 faces), octahedron (8 faces), cube (6 faces), and tetrahedron (4 faces). They seem to have been known to many ancient cultures, and the geographic distribution of these metallic ones makes your Celtic hypothesis very probable to me. Versions of them have been found in clay dating back to pre-Roman times in North Africa and the Middle East. They also formed an important part of classical Greek cosmology as evidenced by their appearance in Plato’s Timaeus dialogue as the basis for the composition of the Earth and the heavens. For the Greeks, they had a kind of religious, philosophical, and mathematical-scientific significance. In 1596, Johannes Kepler presented an approximation of the orbital distances of the six then-known planets using a model of nested platonic solids. They remain today a fascinating topic in geometry and appear in chemistry, crystallography, and biology, where many different virus capsids (including Covid) have been found to take an icosahedral shape. Their study was an important part of Greek geometry and led to the classification of the semi-regular (or “Archimedean”) solids which require two or more different regular faces to compose. There are 13 of them, 7 of which can be formed by truncation, (that is cutting off the vertices or corners) of the Platonic solids. The soccer ball, as we Americans call it, has the faces of a truncated icosahedron.
That is an odd "thing". What is doubly odd, is that I have seen one of those and NOT in a museum. You have got me wracking my brain to try and remember where I saw it. You can bet there are many sitting on peoples shelves as "items of interest", not knowing they are 1,700/1,800 odd years old roman.
When a hole developed in chain-mail armor, these were used to facilitate the repairs. The damaged area was centered over the hole, while the knobs held the section in place.
I already figured these out some time ago. Of course, I could be wrong. I believe they're gauges for the production of wooden dowels. A woodworker could run one, one-handed, down the shaft of a dowel to check the diameter along the whole length. This is backed up the fact that, as far as I know, the largest hole is always rough and irregular. That means the largest hole's only purpose is to be bigger than the hole on the opposite side, so these are meant for something to be passed all the way through. I suspect the 20-sided one is similar, but for metal wire. You wouldn't have to feed the wire through the opposite side because, being flexible, you could just pull it out the large hole. Dowels are used for a variety of things, from weapons to curtain rods. And they break. That means you could find one of these anywhere a craftsman would need to replace one. That includes bath houses. They wouldn't be very common because few craftsmen would likely be able to afford the costly investment of having a smithy create one.
@@dfjtobin Wood expands, contracts, wears out, breaks, and decomposes. Metal too, but nowhere near as much. There may have been wooden ones that rotted away long ago. If you want a tool that lasts, lacking plastic, you make it out of metal. I believe I covered the time and skill part right at the end of my comment. Yep. I did. You'll have to try harder. In other words, come up with a better theory.
@@dfjtobin Being easily replaceable in wood doesn't cut it either. That just means you have to keep something else in metal so you can get the sizes right each time. I didn't just come up with this out of nowhere. I've known about them and considered them for years. I didn't know about the irregular holes until recently. If it were for religion, every hole would likely be pretty. I've thought this through.
@@beastmastreakaninjadar6941 @beastmastreakaninjadar6941 why do they all have the balls? balls aren't needed for the tool you describe, this object is not for making dowles, sorry to burst your bubble.
These "Roman Dodecahedrons" have been demonstrated on multiple sources to be templates with which to make woolen handgloves that can be easily fitted to anyone's hands/fingers. Demonstrations were quite compelling.
Well, if it were not for the 20 faced object, I would stick to the Theory that the dodecahedron was used to connect wooden sticks, you would use a few dodecahedrons to build up a structure. Maybe something to hang pots over the fire? (uneducated guess)
@@rebny7801 You would expect them to be more common then for either option. Also they were combined in some way you would expect some of them to be found together, these seem to all be found in isolation.
A navigation device? Get alignment of specific holes and specific stars and you could tell the direction. Extremely important outside Italy in non-Roman territories.
If I remember a container for catapulting incendiary materials, flax straw or other materials combined with oils and waxes ignited and launched. Designed for use against infantry in dry fields. In the 1960's I took four years of Latin, I seem to remember this from translating Latin from some of the books that I found in a used book store.
I've been saying this for years, it's simple, the items all have holes, allows it to sink not float! Ball on points to hit but not damage! Consistent ware and shape to function no matter who it lands or sits! It's simple. It's a laundry ball! Place your delicate clothing in a barrel, put in your laundry ball, seal barrel and turn you barrel on an A'Frame. With Hot water of cause, clothing type! These should be tested inside a sealed barrel with warm water , diffrent clothing and turned in the barrel for an hour, experimental archeology to see if it can wash clothing like we have baffles in our washing machine now. They had barrels, sealable, Aframe, to turn barrel on like a wagon axel, and they're found often around military sites, the military had uniforms and were cleaner than most population. Or use it the same way to make a butter or cheese churning machine! Simple
@@crakkbone What do you mean "how would we find them?" Same way we find everything else! Graves would be good start, we've dug up plenty of those; heaps of clothing but not many knitted gloves... I could dig up a pair of chopsticks and claim they're for knitting as well. Or vice-versa. I'm in the "people like making weird crap" camp.
@@j.f.christ8421 If you put time into thinking you might conclude that it’s because biodegradable materials don’t tend to last very long? Btw. Gloves may not survive but the wearing of gloves is documented in correspondences between Roman soldiers, serving in colder regions, and their friends and family back home. Kinda proves that they did wear them eh?
@@hisroyalblueness And if you put in a bit of effort you'd know clothing from the Roman period exists, it didn't all rot away. We have found items made of wool, we have found gloves, but the point is we have not found any knitted woollen gloves.
It's for making jewellery. You put a stick in one of the holes and brade metal wire around the stick it makes a chain. Different holes for different size chains.
They've figured out what these are. They determine they were used for candles but not a candle holder. It was more like a life extender. It would be inserted over the flame of the candle creating a reservoir for the candle wax to sit in extending the life of the candle. Candles come in different sizes explaining the different size holes. Additionally it acted as a decorative ornament casting lighting effects on the wall. In Roman times wax candles are hard to come by and I believe were somewhat expensive creating the need to extend the life of a candle as long as possible
and I seem to recall they burned oil lamps more than candles in Italy, so probably why there weren't many found there. It very well could be a candle follower.
I thought the experts has determined they were used for knitting fingers for gloves. In North Africa and Italy they didn't need many gloves, whereas near Scotland everyone needed gloves.
No because knitting was invented in the 11th century. Also it absolutely can get cold in North Africa, especially if you're stationed along the Sahara or in the highlands, even today the highlands get regular snow.
@@hedgehog3180 You can't say definitively that knitting was first invented in the 11th century. Also, if this artifact is based on a Celtic handicraft technique which later used some Roman metallurgy, but then disappeared as the empire collapsed it would conform to the pattern seen.
@@hedgehog3180 people have been weaving/knitting for more than 2000 years. It gets colder in Scotland than Africa. Whenever someone doesn't know what an object is they say it's a religious. Believe whatever you like.
Maybe something used for calculating precise angles when constructing buildings? If you had string and you tied it off on one of the nodes, you could use multiple dodecahedrons to precisely calculate various angles while laying building foundations or potentially even the magnificent arches or domed ceilings that we see in many of the grand old buildings throughout Europe.
We also have to consider that even if an object wasn't found all over the empire, it may have been a pretty common thing, as the empire was vast and there were local cultural differences. What we can certainly say about the object is that it was not important enough as to have been written about (thus no Ancient Computer or Ancient Interdimensional Portal Generator) and it would have thus be something pretty trivial. The knitting theory makes sense to me: I did use a French Knitter as a kid, it's basically a wooden tube with four nails on one end. The "nails" can have different forms, and they have rounded heads, much like this dodecahedron. The icosahedron could have served the same purpose. It would, in any case, have to have been something very mundane. It could also have been a religious artifact. There were lots of religions in the empire with many local variations, just like modern-day sects... Amazing work, in any case.
That the hole sizes are different tells us it is a gauging device for checking size of many things - spears, arrows, handles, many many things. I note the twenty sided one had many concentric circles - which is great for measuring x-section size. In a time without a govewrnment capable of regulating sizes that easily, master craftsmen would have made their own. The spheres on the corners could have combined with the holes for measures of length. I expect the shape of the device gave it strength and made it easy to carry and flip around. A craftsman who made his own would remember what each hole was designed to measure.
Here's a random take that may be totally nonsensical. I've recently learned of what are known as 'cargo cults', in particular there is a very famous example amongst the islanders in south east asia. See what will happen is, ever since WWII, these communities have been crafting useless faux representations of the technologies that we had exposed them to during the war, in hopes of regaining contact with what they more or less failed to understand as the outside world. Things like coconut headphones or hay bale biplanes. Now I'm not at all saying that is what this is, because I'm wholesalely unfamiliar with this story, BUT what I am saying is, is that it's introduced me to a new point of view when it comes to these ooparts. We look at something like this, and we struggle with it, because it seemingly has no apparent purpose. The one thing I think most fail to consider, is that it may not have held any purpose to the person who crafted it as well. Perhaps it's less of an item, and more of an image. Perhaps in some other form that little doohickey will actually do something. But again, I sort of doubt that's the case here, merely supplanting the theory is all 🤷
That all being said, the Icosahedron does pose significant counter balance to that claim. It is strange, is it not, that you would have these two items, clearly in reference to one another, and one would be ubiquitously useless, whereas the other singular and substantially more intricate. Almost as though the German found Icosahedron was much closer to the original object in purpose and design, and the 'Roman' dodecahedron nothing more than a pale imitation. Further, supposing these items were religious, which I'm inclined to argue they absolutely are not, you would think that would have guaranteed mention of them within some sort of scripture. I'm sure for nearly any religious artifacts, especially ones able to be found in such quantities, with over a hundred found there are probably hundreds if not thousands, ya know point being, I guarantee you there are writings of the cross, of candelabras, of dreidels, of all other manner of associated possessions. It'd be foolhardy to assert that this is the one item of religious import that despite having written history, said devout believers would not believe it worth chronicling. That's simply not how human beings work, even the most noblest. The point you make about the lack of wear is intriguing as well. And whilst it had spurred another thought, the Icosahedron dashed it. Given it's distribution I had considered for a moment that it was a portable circling device. I can't imagine there being many uses for such a thing at such a point in history though. The thought being that it's robust design enabled it to be quite portable as compared to a traditional set of stencils or a potentially fragile compass which I'm unsure as to whether or not they even had at the time. Just a thought, not necessarily a good one. But anyways, these objects are crafted with a certain finesse, there is a very almost ritualistic type of ornate design to them that gives them a very alien look indeed. Both literally and figuratively. Yet despite such precision, as had been mentioned, they exhibit little to no wear whatsoever. Meaning that the intent behind them is likely similar to that of religious import, although for the aforementioned reasons I just struggle to imagine that such a treasured and presumably symbolic object would fail to be recorded. Further, if it was religious, what is it symbolizing? Surely even if there was not mention of the object directly, there would be some other contemporary clues as to the nature of the belief. I.e. writings or frescoes or other similar iconography of any sort, but given how stumped people are, I presume that doesn't exist. So you're left with a useless object, that was crafted with precision and care, that exhibits no wear and likely served as more of a piece of decor or symbolism, and despite it's ubiquity the only other reference to its existence comes in the form of an even more cryptic and even more ornate object of similar workmanship... My original supposition is looking a lot better right about now, I mean, how do you write about something when you don't even know what to say? I'd be incredibly curious to see whether or not the Icosahedron is older or not. And it's so strange how it's the only one of its kind despite these having been found in such number. Truly it does almost speak towards this idea of a culture creating these meaningless objects that only ever meant something to the people who saw where they came from. And this may just be me, but you then figure with the antikythera device which came far prior, and to me they share a similar sort of mythos, from the design to the material to their out of place nature, I truly do believe there is some solid weight behind that claim. But there are a lot of them, and they're all over the place. The dispersal is the one thing that doesn't jive very well with that notion that I'm struggling to reconcile. Nevertheless, one of these days someone will figure something out, and I'm sure it will either be incredibly fascinating, or incredibly mundane, when they do 😅
I saw a vid that showed that it could quite easily have been used as an item used by the military to decode messages by using the different size holes as the point of reference and of course the appropriate sypher. Similar to the enigma machine but not so mechanical.
Men up until the invention of industrial knitting machines. Men used to knit as much as women. My Uncle was in The Navy, he knitted, so did many of his shipmates.
That's my thinking too. domestic objects not considered important enough for the literate to write about. Developed from a Celtic handicraft tradition so not spread over the whole empire. Earlier simple forms could have existed made of wood or bone that have now disappeared. When Roman metallurgy became available a few affluent women could have them made in bronze and combined into a dodecahedron. But they were rare high-status items that declined and disappeared with the fall of the empire.
@@jakedee4117 No sign of wear, so all these affluent women kept them as symbols of that they could knit, but chose not to. Or something. Also, for knitting tubes of various dimensions, you would prefer a varying number of knobs around the holes, depending on the hole size. We don't see that here. Also, no trace of any sort of knitted textiles from the period, but that may have just rotted away.
Looks like a nice candle holder. Fits different sizes, depends what the shop has on offer. Bought a sprung coil one to go around the base of the candle, but the Roman one in this here video looks more durable.
Its a weaving form,used to make chains from wrapped gold wire,thats why they are found with treasure and wax for stretching the weave through the various holes, the holes also work to hold the different size dowells for wrapping the different size chains. Copper and gold were hammered into wire and weaved into chain by the smiths that made the dodecas
I saw a post *a while* back positing that it's a knitting aid-- there's some kind of knitted thing that was much easier to start using the knobs at the corners. Maybe it was the fingertips of gloves? 🤔
We understand that each hole is a different size. I also think I heard Phil say that the the diameters of the holes in different examples of the object are not the same. He didn't tell us if all of the objects have the same ratios among the hole diameters. In my opinion that knocks out all the theories I've heard so far, except that it might be an aid for knitting gloves. After all, Northwest Europe is where a Roman soldier might want, for the first time in his life, a warm pair of gloves.
Big thanks to William Green (Twitter: @ ShedlyYard ) for making this 3d printed version of the mystery object. Paint supplied by HMG Coatings.
My first thought was some sort of corner hitch for horse straps (or maybe iron bars/tent pegs), but I then wondered why the different sizes of holes. But when you came back to the map, then I thought that the Celtic tribes were much bigger users of chariots and hobby horses than the Romans were. Are there other technologies that were similarly associated with regions that would fit?
I believe it to be a British-Romano Shamanistic instrument. It is a type of Chumpi Khuya Stone that the shaman in Peru use. The spheres on the corners allow the object to move across flat surfaces with ease (around the body).
The dodecahedron shape was seen in a psychedelic hallucination by a shaman who lived back then and who had the knowledge of how to forge metal. He copied what he had seen in a vision.
The shaman would travel and meet other shaman, and inform them of this new instrument they are using; to engage the body’s natural energy system.
The holes in the panels allow energies in and out, depending on how the shaman needs to heal the person he/she is tending to.
See: Chumpi Khuya Stones used by Peruvian Shaman. There is a video on TH-cam on how the Shaman use them. The stones are golf ball to baseball in size. They are carved into 3 dimensional shapes, have sphere nodules, and patterns cut into them.
Ultimately, this is just a guess.
I've always had a theory about what those metal balls are
Your in a siege party or raiders/invaders
1. take object
2. Add a small amount of sheep wool/goat hair thats been soaked in alcohol
3. ignite
4. Load into sling / throw onto flammable roofs.
5. Burn them to the ground from distance.
They would also more than likely be reusable. The metal nubs around outside would give grip
Just a theory, but it fits well in my mind
Different versions, different makers
First thought is that it's a Druid's religious item.
i think it's for measuring serving sizes for spaghetti … or inserting fingers to measure for a ring to be crafted.
It’s either for putting in your tumble dryer to keep your togas fluffy or you fill it with peanut butter and garum to keep the dog amused whilst you pop out to the forum for a while…
I love the garum reference!
🤣
garum and treats and it'll keep the cat interested as well.
It's pretty obvious isn't it 😅
I doubt it, but this is a great explanation! 😂
its the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.They are used for pest control, especially large rabbits.
Be sure to read the instructions!
There were no rabbits in Great Britain at that time.
@@Milamberinx Looks like it worked pretty well then.
@@Milamberinx Yes there was, the Romans brought them over.
Esp white rabbits hiding in caves...
My personal hypothesis is that they are proof of skill. A literal Masterpiece. If you're a traveling blacksmith seeking work across the northern roman empire how do you prove your skills? You make a standard shape that requires a multitude of different skills and artistry to make.
Absolutely love this Alexander.
Ive thought the same thing. Like a lot of trade guilds still do today. If you look up a "turners cube" or "machinists cube" you'll see the exact same sort of behavior. In thousands of years, people are going to find them and wonder what the heck they were for.
You make a good point Alexander. I don't think you could forge this piece very easily but maybe it could be cast using the lost wax process. I wonder if they know what it was made from and how?
My thought exactly!
Except they are made of bronze, not iron or steel.
I would imagine they made a version of the thing out of beeswax, and then packed oiled fine sand tightly inside of it and around it with a channel for the bronze to be poured in and another channel for it to run out of or breathe as its being poured. Then heat the mold so the molten wax comes out, and then pour in the molten bronze.
I'm assuming that sand casting was a thing back in the western Roman Empire era
Line up two holes and look through them (smaller hole closest) ,then by placing an eye so that the circumferences of the holes match, you have a fixed angle of view. If you look at a standard staff in the distance, and try various combinations of holes, you can determine the distance. So it's a surveying tool.
no its missing a shaft is for weaving gold of silver wire for jewelry chain someone cant do research
It's a candle holder. There was no standard width for candles, so variable hole sizes. The nubs are feet, so that it isn't flush with a table, prevents wax seal from forming. Important enough in a world without electricity that they are all over the empire. Unimportant enough to not record them. The ones we have are probably the expensive ones. Certainly there would be lots of different versions made of wood, etc. A couple of the ones which have been recovered have wax residue on them.
The wax residue could have come from being made with lost wax casting method ? My theory is that it was made for sitting on a window sill.
if the holes were meant to hold a candle one would expect the holes on opposite sides of the dodecahedron to be the same size, they're not. and that doesnt explain the existence of the icosahedron, whose holes are tiny.
People in this era tended to use oil lamps. Olive oil works well. But if your out of the places where you can't grow olives...
@@capt.bart.roberts4975 Perhaps candles were used where it was too far north to grow olive oil?
what about the icosahedron though? the holes seem way too small for candles
A Roman walks into a bar.
The bartender asks, "What can I get for you?"
The Roman holds up two fingers.
The bartender says, "Five beers coming up..."
don't get it
@@johnduffin9425 The two fingers make a V, which is the Roman numeral for 5.
@@facelessman9224 ahh! Thx u my good homie!
Someone call i ex i i!!
We came, we saw, we got hammered!
I imagine one snake oil merchant and his blacksmith travelling and selling "mysterious objects of great power"
That was my idea as well.
That they where thrown away when they realized they where scammed lol.
Like the theory.
But would there be more of them found?
One day future archeologists will discover a strata of human refuse full of fidget spinners and spend the next 200 years trying to work out their religious significance.
It's certainly possible however looking at the detail i can't imagine it being easy to make which to me rules out snake oil since it would of had to be sold for rather high value to make anything from it. For them to have lasted so long in such good condition and intricate designs with no wear suggests to me that the objects was of high value and something to be looked after
It's a survey tool for road construction,
The fact that the holes are different sizes on each face must be a vital clue to its use. However, they are different on each dodecahedron and are not standardised. One suggestion I saw on another thread is that it's a fancy stand for something, with the knobs acting as feet so that it stands level. This suggestion mentioned that small round-bottomed phials for something valuable like perfume/incense/medicine could be stood on it, using the most appropriately sized hole.
your observation was great! its used for cyphering, different holes correspond to the decoding wheel used to tell what the code was to encode, different faces have different holes which fit only one of the encryption faces with roman alphabet.
But if so, why not found all over the Roman Empire? The different sized holes and the knobs look very like what we call “French knitting” cotton reels. I still like the idea that they were used in cold climates to home weave gloves, socks or other items. Any child can use a French knitting reel.
@@christopherdavies7213 if its a knitting tool why dont they find multipless of them at same spot
Bronze Age and later, pots had ball feet. I tend towards a regionalised cultural icon of some sort. Not many have been found which is also strange unless the intricacy of them restricted numbers. Expensive so only for the top people, yet they do not appear in tombs I presume.
@@christopherdavies7213 Then why was it found in forts and near borders and battles? Isn't it easier to deliver finished gloves to the soldiers than to deliver knitters to the soldiers? In addition, leather gloves are more practical or no gloves at all, especially if you use weapons such as swords and bows.
With the cold in Britain and Germania, they would probably have thought better of wearing socks than gloves.
The Romans were clearly trolling future archaeologists.
Some of these things will be spotted by Mars rovers next.
Mystery solved ... a glove making form......YT site ...makecraftdo
A lady solved the problem 4 years ago 2020
In their time, it was common practice to shave the edges of coins - ie remove some material. This was so common, that virtually no coins in circulation were full diameter anymore. A way to classify the remaining diameter of metal was needed that could be used to calculate the 'value' of a coin presented - and the person that did the calculating was more often than not - a tax collector. So this is why you see these in places far from Rome, where the paying was being done, and lots of coin shaving was underway.
Low value materials like copper were bigger coins, and high value materials like silver were smaller diameter - thus why you needed lots of sizes, and the reason for the finely made measuring tool - was so you couldn't copy it - ie make a fake.
My thoughts when I first saw it. Measures the shaved coin to determine it's weight roughly.
@@blimm2341But then what are the noddules on the corners for. Plus a much easier and simpler way to see if a coin had been shaved, would be to just compare the coin to an untampered coin.
Why the matched hole diameters on opposing sides though?
@@fafski1199
There were many different types of coins in diameter and thickness. Maybe a piece of leather or metal or string of some type used on the nodules to measure thickness. This was just my first thought on what it might be. I have several ideas listed in the comments of what It could be used for.
That could be done without the elaborate shape of these things.
Just saw a video by Amy Gaines channel that demonstrates these were most likely used for making gold chains, referred to as "Viking Gold Wire Knitting" (or close to that term). Once knitted, its drawn thru progressively smaller holes to draw the wires down to the desired chain diameter.
After watching the Amy Gaines video I’m sold on her theory! It not only works it makes sense! Got to research “Viking gold wire knitting” now, and whether the Celts used this type of ‘knitted’ gold chain.
thanks, the video was pretty convincing. It reminded me so much of the french knitting we used to do at school, using an empty wooden cotton reel not so very different in size, with nails projecting out for wrapping the yarn around. I like this theory for:
>identifying functions for 2 aspects of this artefact: the knobs for knotting the wire into a pattern; and the pairs of matching opposite holes, in 6 sizes, for drawing the "knitted'' wire through, into a smooth and even diameter.
>Also, threading wire makes sense for the similar device that has twenty sides (i.e. 10 pairs of holes ) of much smaller diameter. It could be for thinner chains, or for evening out single strand wire; the principle seems to be the same.
>finally, this device would have been expensive, it's complex and involved a lot of work to make.Too pricey for household use if something simpler and cheaper would have done the job, especially if made out of wood. It seems logical to me that the cost of this device could only be justified if used in the manufacturing of something expensive -- such as gold wire jewellery.
It's interesting that I ran across her video before this one!
@@sus8e462 And fancy rope, too. I think there are even earlier vids that explain why it is a “knitting” device. But isn’t it interesting, and ominous, how much discussion there has been which totally ignores this useful explanation?! Kind of representative of our times: MORE information is quite often LESS.
@@sandra4999san not sure if ominous, but with means to share ideas globally, a bigger audience & more ideas/theories! (Though lots more to dig thru to find the real gems, too, though yes, how quickly misinformation can spread & critical thinking & logic isn't applied).
It's an old joke among archaeologists: if you can't identify a use for it, then it's a "Cult Object"
Fair
I would love to se beer bottle openers described as such.
And don't forget, when they find absolutely any site with no immediate reason of use, it's 'a place of worship'.
I swear, ancient societies had 15 'places of worship' per square meter... like they never had anything else to do besides hunt for wild pigs and then sacrifice them..
@@rexcatston8412 every place is a place of worship earth is goddess
@@marumiyuhimeThat's not why the places are mis-called holy sites. And it isn't what the sites were used for. Your misplaced pedantry damages the conversation and reveals your immaturity.
Fidget spinners where ubiquitous across the world for a solid minute, I imagine they would confound archeologists if found out of context, because they really had no context.
Very good point.
What would defeat any future-archeologists of course, is the sheer mass of our stuff. Just you turn your head, and look at the contents of your room, now imagine just describing it all for the catalogue. Not coming up with the use or uses, not the relationships between the various artifacts . . . just record them all.
All or almost all of it, very very durable, far more durable than any roman artifact could have been.
I've seen people still playing with new fidget spinners in 2024.
Fidget spinners were ritual objects associated with feasting during the winter solstice. Definitely.
Does this thing spin as well?
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 What do you own that's more durable than bronze? 🤨
I suppose my crockery and glassware might last 2000 years, with a lot of luck, but that stuff isn't modern.
They were relatively rare, so not for a common purpose
Expensive and difficult to make, so not for something mundane
Made in different sizes, with different sized holes, or none at all, so not a precision instrument
Made with different materials, including gold
No symbols or annotations, so likely not a measuring device
No sign of wear, so not overly used
Not found universally in the Roman empire, so either required local resources, or a particular culture
They were not common enough to be mentioned by writers, and not rare and high class enough to be mentioned by writers ...
Rare??? They keep popping up all over the map!
@@ChelleLlewes There are only around 130 in existence ... for a Roman era metal artefact that extremely rare
@@davidioanhedges That's only how many have been found SO FAR. How many are still waiting to be found? Or how many have already been destroyed?
.. so ur sayin its Aliens, got it.
@@ChelleLlewes Compared to many hundreds of thousands of coins or vases, they are rare. We've unearthed a great deal of Roman culture at this point. Not saying there isn't / aren't more, but relatively speaking, they are hardly ubiquitous.
IDK were I saw or heard this, but my favorite Hypothesis is that it is a tool for knots/ropes. The protrusions may stop the rope from jumping around, the different sizes obviously for different Diameter ropes. The circles around openings would act as a welds (or similar to corrugated metal) to strengthen the metal from the pull of the ropes, preventing it from tearing. They are constantly found in places where ropes would be used for hauling heavy materials. PLUS: you said they are found in Celtic region, and I think most associated the Clets with knots sooooo there's that....
They've always reminded me of those knitting dollies that we played with a school when I was a mere whippersnapper!
I think that's an important consideration, as lots of features point to its use for that purpose. But. Why not across the Roman empire.
I thought it had been settled that's what they are.
@@ensignphil not to my knowledge.
@@pwhitewickmaybe if used with whool it was present only
in the colder parts of the empire…
@@pwhitewick To me this seems like people want this to be less mundane than it is, forgetting the sound principle of Occam's razor.
If you had four of them, you could place small poles in the holes to form a frame for a tent, with cross members for strength. Then place a canvas over it. That's what I see every time I see one.
It's for the corners of a tent.
Expensive corners you have there.
Beautifully, perfectly made, totally professional and precise corners.
Sorry, it could be used like that quite obviously, but it don't believe it.
But its value with the workmanship...
@@B.Ies_T.Nduhey I did not consider expense. I think you're correct.
@@MadAnthonyI You might be onto something. They aren't finding them by the thousands, so they wouldn't be for the common soldiery. But it was a known fact that high ranking officers had very opulent traveling accommodations, so perhaps this theory isn't wrong, so much as it is just for the elite.
Nice idea but doesn't the icosahedron contradict that though? There's no way you're getting a tent-pole through that and yet...it's clearly a variation on the same kind of object.
@@origaminosferatu3357 not thru it, but a notched end into a hole a couple inches. If you had one in each corner you could have a cubicle shaped frame and the crossbars for strength.
Yes glad you found that, I lost it last year when I was going for a walk about, thanks.
Solved? The Roman Dodecahedron a TH-cam video by Amy Gaines.
She only has a couple of hundred subscribers, so that's probably why nobody has trumpeted her theory from the rooftops.
It's so coherent and well argued a theory and she shows exactly how the dodecahedrons were used to make ornamental chains. I'm sure she needs greater recognition for an astonishing insight.
It's genius and so obvious and simple when you see it.
Probably a gambling game that had wooden pegs that fit in the unique sized holes. You role the dodecahedron and the holder of peg that fits the top hole wins the pot. 🎉
This is a good one, but seems overly complicated way to make a dice. But then again sometimes that’s what makes a game fun.
cypher tool! vids 40mins long and 2 weeks old its brill
The ball points on the outside would be a massive effort, so if the holes were the only point you’d expect to find many that didn’t have the balls.
@@Forest-iv5vm they would be additional effort if these are made out of wrought iron. But from what I’ve read they are actually cast from Bronze, so with a lost wax method, maybe it’s not too much more work.
I like the tool for making metal jewelry chains explanation. The demo is convincing. As a child I was constantly doing french knitting.
I think,its a clever fits all sizes candlestick holder. It appears you would always have a flat side on top. Candles were important but not standard in size so you could buy any size without having to trim them.
Candle stick holder? Not a bad idea. But why not in found in Italy.
Maybe in Italy they were all melted down to make other stuff from it, like coins or cups?
I am not sure at all they had candles by Romano times, had they ?
They did not have stick candles. They used little vessels as oil lamps.
@@IrisHammesfahr The Romans had wicked dipped candles made from beeswax and tallow, but was probably more common for the wealthy whereas oil lamps were used by common people. I think just like today the popularity of gadgets could have gone up and down. It wouldn’t surprise me if we find out these things were only made over a short span of time.
For telling fortunes. The supplicant asks his question silently. The mage throws the object at their forehead;
whichever knob stuck, that's the answer.
😂
It says "you need a doctor, or better yet a forehead surgeon"
The predecessor to the magic 8 ball! Lol 😂
I’ve said this in a few other videos about this object: The object can only be one thing: A tool to make the one thing everyone needed until guns: Arrows. Or larger ones wound make spears.
- How? Like metal extrusion. Take a straight stick and pull it through the largest openings, then pull it through the next smallest openings. Maybe through the same way a few times. When your are done, you have a smooth straight shaft. The balls on the outside are so you can hold it in your hand with a good grip. Or wedge it in the crux of tree branches. There is really no other explanation. A simple, cheap, but elegant tool to make arrows out of sticks.
But he said there was no sign of wear on the ones found.
Or just a gauge. Dowels would have been used almost universally in millions of long perished items.. including arrows and spears. Maybe arrows were sorted post manufacture into bundles with similar heft and diameters. Archers could then select their preferred weight and achieve consistency when practicing.
No
ooooh, yeah I can see that would explain the different sized holes
How would you resize the holes once they wear out?
I feel similar to Alexander below. Given that there is only one per location and there tends to be usually one smithy in the village, that it was made for use by a blacksmith, but not as a masterpiece. Could it be a gauge? For the thickness of things like nails or spear shafts?
Possibly for sorting arrow shafts. Romans shipped arrowheads by the barrel, then fitted shafts as needed. Cut branches from coppiced trees will have all ranges of diameters. The arrowheads were cast in bronze in different sizes. A gauge is needed to conveniently sort and cut branches for fitting to the heads / selecting the correct head for the branch.
There is one report of one found with a batch of arrowheads.
Larger dodecahedron for larger diameter tools/spear shafts?
The icosahedron with small holes a copy of the gauge approach but for some other purpose altogether
@@quesoestbonne Wouldn't that require the holes facing each other to be of the same size?
If that's the case why are the knobs on it, assuming they're heat welded on, that's a lot of effort for decorative knobs
Obviously not.
@@jakedee4117 no need to push the whole shaft through, only the end needs measuring
Rule number 1 in dodecahedron club?
Never explain anyhing about it so that the money never stops... Trust me, everyone is going to get rich, and laid!
Dodecahedron club for life! People are going to be so amazed a couple thousand years from now.
Interesting story about the objects. Getting a replica made is a great prop for showing the size and form of at least one of the objects.
Thanks Eric
The year is 4024... Archeologists discover a strange spinning triangular device and start making theories on what it was used for.
And they'd mostly be right if they said it was for ritual purposes! It's not an _organized_ ritual, but messing with a fidget spinner to distract yourself from other things is still a ritual.
@@mal2ksc Also fits the "minor cult" description, since it was a brief, intense fad.
I believe they were ranging devices. If you match the hole to the size of the object in the distance you could estimate how far away it was.
I was thinking along those lines, but then why do they all have the balls attached? it would do the ranging task without those.
Perhaps the balls allowed the user to hang the object from a string, and each know is located so that a certain pair of whole aligns with the horizon. ???
@@dfjtobin I think there are also a few examples with no holes in them, can't rangefind if you can't see through it.
For this to work the holes would need to be precisely calibrated and some sort of scale would be present. Neither is the case. There are far simpler primitive rangefinders that can be made without messing about with bronze dodecahedrons.
Wouldn't they be more consistent then? And also that only works if you know exactly how large the object you're looking at is and these have never been found together with the land surveying tools we know the Romans used.
I like the religious idea, if you put a candle down and place the dodecahedron over it you would get nice patterns on the walls!
So why aren't the holes shaped like Jesus?
@@Clavers1369 Dogs already have those.
I have never seen this before, but looking at it, it looks like a great tool for sticking on a post and using the balls to loop strings around for repeatable angles in construction.
But they aren't particularly interesting/useful angles for construction. And why aren't there versions with different polyhedra to give different angles? Why don't they show varying amounts of wear?
@@1FatLittleMonkeyno idea. It was just a thought.
I've spent the last week obsessed with this and my conclusion is that it was a land surveying tool used and designed by the druids. Look at the paper written by Willem A Jorg last year. Only theory I've found that has no major flaws. And no it wasn't for knitting gloves 😂
Interesting. Druids being a synonym for technician.
Indulge me and have a look at the several youtube channels showing socks and gloves being easily knitted on these. The holes suit several finger sizes including thumbs. The other one shown with 25 sides throws doubt on this theory of course.
@@teeanahera8949 Yes I've seen them. That's one of the theories that has too many major flaws to consider.
@@teeanahera8949 Those if my memory is working are called Matabas, and are described in Jewish Cabbalistic Rites.
I'm talking about the icosohedron.
Amy has the most plausible explanation for this item and makes beautiful chains with it.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
The aqueduct?
That's hilarious!
yes, of course, everyone knows the romans built the aqueduct. but besides the aqueduct, What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?@@FakeSchrodingersCat
Romanes eunt domus!
Healthcare?
Pretty straight forward. Its a gatherer for wooden poles to support tenting - a rain cover. The small 'balls' could be for ties - down ropes. What did roman soldiers do when ir rained? Carry on marching? No. They wanted fast, easy to assemble rain covers. Highly likely that the objects could have been linked with wooden poles to create a bigger shelter. Easy to make different sizes and simple to use. A universal shape.
why would all the holes be different sizes then? why do none of them show signs of wear? as one would expect if they were subjected to strong forces like wind blowing against a tent and putting stress on the wooden poles in the holes and the string tied around the balls?
@@Hephera those were the sales reps samples
What a load of Balls….
Way too expensive an object to be for work-a-day task like that. This is master metal casting, not mass production.
They would have found millions of them if that was the case.
I’m embarrassed to say this but fit a dowel through same size holes then using the appropriate knobs weave wire into chain mail. Having progressed to a given length pull the knitted form through progressively smaller opposite holes and it automatically weaves tightly. Silver or gold necklaces beautifully woven can be done this way. Excellent tool and valuable in its day....
Yes, there is a video on TH-cam showing how it is used either to make chains of metal or used in crocheting with wool or string
It looks as if the problem has been solved. The technique of use is similar to french Knitting but in the case of this dodecahedra it is a used for the 'knitting' of gold wire into necklaces and by continuously passing through the varies diameter holes the necklace can be made very fine and delicate. Check out French Knitting which used to be a popular playground activity in English schools.
Hi Paul, a fantastic tale to tell on a fantastic agger!!
Clearly this is the insides of a Roman Rubrics cube, where are the coloured faces? Well after discovering that nothing worked, nothing turned they took a hammer to them ....... at least that's what happened to my Rubrics cube anyway .....
I wonder if we will ever find out. Great subject and really well presented. All the best!!
What stands out to me from the distribution map is that the majority were found in areas where lots of troops were present - in other words near the European borders of the Empire. I think it's therefore likely that it is connected, if only tangentially, to soldiering.
Something else to note is the specific time period these were supposed to date from - around the 2nd to the 4th cemtury. This would seem to belie the claim that they are of Celtic origin as we would expect to have found examples dating significantly earlier than that.
During this period, Mithraism became popular with the army before being largely supplantes by Christianity. One could speculate a potential link here.
@@scottgoodman8993 I never suggested they weren't stationed elsewhere.
You're ignoring what I pointed out though - if these are Celtic in origin then we would expect to have found examples that predate the 2nd century. And by the 4th century, the inhabitants of Gaul and Illyria had a very strongly Romanized culture, so it seems very improbable that such artifacts would continue being made.
Furthermore, we would also expect to have found them in regions populated by Celts outside the Roman Empire.
Furthermore, there is a huge geographical distribution - from Northern Britain to the Danubian frontier. The Celts living in these places did not have a single material culture and there's no reason to expect them to have produced such similar objects. If this were so, then we could also have expected to find them in Iberia and Northern Italy, where Celts also settled, and we haven't.
@@scottgoodman8993 Incomprehensible, try again.
I agree. read my comment bacsi8337
@@patavinity1262 That would depend on when the dodecahedron developed and for how long it persisted. It is quite possible that it developed in a Romano-Celtic context, spread through those trade networks for a short time and then disappeared.
My current hypothesis is for less than a century, 4-5th CE
The Romans were road builders and surveyors they used precision instruments for sightings…Especially the military…
It’s for measuring portions of spaghetti. (before cooking).
This!
That's a better guess than it looks.
Had this thought myself!
Too elaborate for spaghetti. Also, I don’t think Roman’s had stringed noodles like we have today. They had a flattened noodle like lasagna. I think if I remember right, it was Marco Polo that brought back the noodle from Asia that we have today.
@@bmo5082 I was only kidding😜👍; but they do make spaghetti portion tools that use a hole.
It is a tool used by architects to determine a straight line and angles from point A to B and C to D and... etc.
It works by looking through the hole 🕳️ from one such object to multiple other identical objects off in the distance.
It was used by ancient architects for surveying work prior to construction.
Such objects are found in India.
as soon as I saw it that's what I thought too, it's a survey instrument.
So why would it need multiple holes of different sizes? And why only found in more northern climates?
I'd never come across this puzzle, Paul. Fascinating.
Having watched the video and read the comments, I'm leaning towards the "proof of skill" explanation.
At least no one (in the comments on your video, anyway) seems to have gone down the "it's alien!" route.
I do like this!
Someone came close to calling it alien...idiot decided these have a connection to the atomic bomb. Talks about "the ancients'" technology. There's always gotta be some clown....
Bloody Von Daniken, he had these in his one of his books, can't remember what he thought they were.
I thought it was a knitting/Crochet Too. For making Golves, Scarves, Vests, Pants etc... Anywhere where you might need Warm Clothing.
It's used for quickly assembling a tent.
They work exactly like the crown of an umbrella, with openings for posts and/or ropes, the nodules being used as lashing points.
Various designs of shelter could be improvised by someone with minimal skills or materials and in a variety of circumstances.
It's no coincidence they're found in areas being occupied by an invading expedition force.
Looks like something a blacksmith student would make as a graduation test object.
You can't see that it is a casting and not a forging?????
@@artszabo1015 how does that change my answer? Blacksmith’s back in the day did both casting and forging. My answer still stands. 👍
Bro when u graduate you go out and party with some broads.
@@olivere5497 *winches
I thought that initially, but they were found over a wide area in the Empire - but not wide enough for it to have become a standard test such as a guild's test. Its one of the better explanations though. I still think it must have had a religious element to it or identification of a tribe or sub-culture personally.
Can I please throw my two peneth worth in favour of the glove making tool.
1. Experimental Archaeology has shown they do work for that purpose.
2. The distribution. Oh look does that maybe match the colder bits of the Empire where gloves would be most valuable?
3. They are too ornamental to be mundane. Craftspeople like to have good looking varients of their tools. That is true now so why would it not be true then.
4. There should be more of then. Maybe the majority were made of less durable materials so have perished, the ones we have left are the 'high class' ones. (see point 3)
5. Possible celtic origins as another explanation for the distribution. Not mutually exclusive with point 2. Maybe they were, maybe the pre-Roman o es were made of perishable material. The romans bring improved metal working and metal versions get made.
6. The icosahedron. This could be a tool for a similar task, hence same solution. However it doesn't have to be exactly the same task. It could be a prototype for an attempt at a new versions. It could be someone attempting to replicate the dodecahedron from a bad descriptio. That's just the explanations I san come up with off the top of my head.
willy warmers?
Glove making. That's an intriguing hypothesis. Various hole sizes for finger sizes. Yarn would remain organized as it was wrapped around the knobs and brought in to be woven into form. Off the top of my head, I would think that rods of various sizes would work better: weaving around a rod seems an easier task than maintaining a diameter defined by a hole through which it passes, but I would have to see it being used. I have read a lot about expeditions, mainly in the exploration of North America, and have often read about the amount of time the men spent repairing boots, darning socks and patching other articles of clothing. A jig which someone could use to make gloves that fit well and could be worn while working would be handy, indeed. It would be interesting to see how the fingers would then be attached to the rest of the glove and how, in fact, that part would be fashioned. Definitely a leading hypothesis in my mind at this point.
As good or if not better than my ideas.
@@daveberry2177 The Romans would defo go there!
But then the size should be roughly the same but we've found that giant one, unless you're suggesting the Romans were making woolen gloves for giants that seems like it kills the theory dead. I guess you could claim that this was also just a failed attempt to make one but at this point you're throwing away a lot of evidence to fit your theory.
There's also the minor issue that the earliest evidence of knitting comes from the 11th century, if we really stretch our definition we can at most go back to the 2nd century in Roman Egypt, but that's not anywhere near where these objects were found. Just because something is common today doesn't mean you can assume it has always been common.
It looks like it’s designed so that if it’s thrown or rolled, the object would always stop with a face up. It may have been something similar to dice… or something meant to always be level. The Romans were known to spend a lot of time on games and recreation, so anyway… that’s what the object looks like it has a design for.
Ya it reminds me of a caltrop, which the Romans were probably overly fond of
But the differing sized holes would mean that the side with the smallest hole, thus most mass, would tend to be landed on the most. Sort of like 'loaded' dice.
@@gillie-monger3394 and yet, they don't show much wear from being rolled and we don't find broken ones... nor is there a 'scoring' system. I can't see the 'game' angle.
Put a ball in it and roll. If the largest hole is at the bottom the ball drops out. Winner/loser is result. Well maybe 🤔
@@Ripper218 😊 my thought too. Gambling game. 1 in 12 chance the ball drops out.
If the ball was smaller (say fitted in 2nd from largest hole) then 1 in 6 chance etc. Balls made from wood would not necessarily have survived, so a missing component.
I first saw this device recently in a youtube video, the guy's very well thought out and demonstrated thesis is that it is an encryption device used by military posts to encrypt messages. he shows through demonstration how the device could do this, it's not insane and a very possible practical use of this enigmatic little thing.
I just posted about that same video! It is a fascinating hypothesis!
They are not standardized and arent found in military camps most of the time, so no
"this _enigmatic_ little thing." I see what you did there. Excellent.
Spot on. I wish I could remember his name. it was his first you tube video
My hypothesis for what its worth is its a game, something similar to dice, where you would put a ball of a certain size in side, and roll it and the winner would be whoever rolled it and the ball came out the bottom, great video, got he thinking :)
cypher tool. army use strictly, hence why no mentions of it anywhere. a guy put together a brilliant video on it 40mins long and 2 weeks old
This. For divining fortune, for casting lots, for settling minor disputes, for gambling. Probably with a simple clay ball rolled on the spot with some spit and dirt. A very useful tool for that culture.
I think you might be right.
I imagined they'd roll it and then see if something will pass through the upper hole or not... but your idea makes just as much sense.
In Roman times, a dodecahedron might have been used for spatial reasoning in various ways:
* **Architecture**: Roman architects and engineers might have used the dodecahedron as a model for designing and building structures, such as temples, palaces, or aqueducts. The shape's symmetry and geometric properties could have been applied to create aesthetically pleasing and functional buildings.
* **Geometry and measurement**: The dodecahedron's 12 pentagonal faces and 20 vertices could have been used to demonstrate geometric concepts, such as proportions, symmetry, and spatial relationships. This might have helped Roman mathematicians and engineers develop their understanding of spatial reasoning and measurement.
* **Art and design**: Roman artists and craftsmen might have used the dodecahedron as a model for creating intricate designs, patterns, and ornaments. The shape's unique properties could have inspired the creation of decorative elements, such as mosaics, sculptures, or jewelry.
* **Astronomy**: The dodecahedron's symmetries and geometric properties might have been used to model the movements and relationships of celestial bodies, such as planets and stars. This could have helped Roman astronomers develop their understanding of the solar system and the movements of celestial bodies.
While there is no direct evidence of the dodecahedron being used in Roman times, its geometric properties and symmetries would have been well-suited for various applications in architecture, engineering, art, and design.
Architecture seems very likely, that would help explain why they didn’t need to be the same size. Use 2 or more of these with string to plot out precise angles that we no longer see used in more modern architecture.
The 90 degree angle was called “the angle of sorrow” for a reason.
@@traceyoung5592 Before I read the last line in your reply I thought exactly the same, asetics don't seem to enter the equation these days, I didn't know about the ninety degree angle of sorrow, thanks for that gem.
Really enjoy your content, thanks.
perfect for making perfect angles, carpenter or architect's tool. if you're building a temple or palace type structure just stick a dowel in the right size hole and set it against a surface to check or mark the angles. building a bridge or aquaduct or anything else that needs to be precise for the engineering to work, it could save the whole project from failure.
M3galotherium - You're just saying that to tease us - you don't really believe that , do you?
You would expect to find one of those in Rome then.
Regarding the Roman Dodecahedron, the proposed purpose that I like most is “Candle Holder”.
-The holes fit various sizes of candles, since there was no standardized manufacturing
-Heavy and stable - very important with a burning candle
-Will not catch fire when candle burns down
-Rings on each face catch dripping wax (which was found on some of them)
-The ball feet keep it stable on irregular surfaces
-The Dodecahedron are found in the northern parts of the Roman Empire where winter nights are longer and candles were more necessary and valuable.
Why not just a plate with a metal spike in the center. Much easier to make.
Wow! They played D&D in the Roman Empire?!?!
Apparently so
catacvmbae et dracones
In my campaign, characters used dice to gamble or settle minor disputes (like whose turn it is to pay the bar tab) all the time. It's just convenient since the player already has them to hand, but the rules don't have to have anything to do with D&D. One of the more common games is just craps with two eight-sided dice instead of six-sided, and the win/lose rolls are of course different.
I fully believe people were gambling with these devices, regardless of what they were designed for. Bored soldiers will gamble with anything that generates random-ish results.
Great video, Paul! I just asked Google how many Roman gods/goddesses there were, and it said 12! (Although there were actually a lot more than that, but 12 major ones)
Oooh I see the logic there. I wonder how many Celtic gods there were!
also the celts had definitely more than twelve gods, but their importance varied from tribe to tribe - and at the time of origin of these objects (second to fourth century) theyve been all merged by roman religion ("gallo-roman culture").
@@pwhitewick Dozens! Think of Pratchett's book 'Small Gods'.
I know what it is. As a child my sister made me a knitting Cotten reel. It was a Cotten bobbin / reel with four small nails in one end. As I can recall you fed a piece of wool or two treads of differently coloured wool and by pulling the thread through the main holes you can hook the thread over each of the nails in turn pulling the tail you can create a knitted tail. The one you have is obviously un used or even unfinished the pommels take the place of the nails in my childhood knitting toy. Once the knitted tails are long enough even many metres they can be wound and sewn together to form hats or shawls ,blankets or even mats.
I showed my wife and she said, It's what we use in knitting!
Well, it's not though, is it?
@@beaudilecaliste6545 i can tell you're british
@@beaudilecaliste6545
Correct, it's not.
The differently sized holes wouldn't make differently sized knitted fingers for gloves, because the pegs would still be at the same distance, and that's what controls how big the knitted tube turns out.
I love the knitting theory for sentimental reasons, but from what I've read it's a purely speculative theory and some examples of dodecahedra have vastly different measurements and wouldn't be practical knitting aids at all. If they were intended to be used as knitting tools, you'd expect all of them to be usable as such. Similarly, if they were a measurement tool or a navigation device, they ought to have similar dimensions, but they don't seem to have been standardised.
The fact that they were found mainly in the Northern parts of the empire does suggest that their use is either uniquely suited to colder weather, or that they come from the culture of the people who were there before the Romans, or they were used for a technology that wasn't useful in the Mediterranean region but was useful elsewhere.
Apart from the "gloves and socks" theory, I've heard speculation about these being a construction aid for military tents, or a cooking aid used in military camps. I think if it were either of these, we'd have found more of them or at least a written reference.
The knitting theory makes sense because if they were all different sizes, they were owned by people with different sized hands. The tiny ones maybe used for infants and toddlers. The holes may have corresponded to finger circumference. The bigger ones used for socks. So many theories have been presented and all have their 'flaws' but maybe someday AI will figure out what these were used for and settle the debate with solid evidence by using the device for it's intended purpose.
@@ichitoburrito1359 holes that are big enough to knit socks with would need more knobs around the edges though, which they don't have. And you don't knit baby gloves with individual fingers - for one, because babies don't learn to use individual fingers until they're several months old, and also individual fingers cool off more quickly (especially with tiny hands) which is why mittens would be the better choice. You simply don't need tiny holes for fingered kid's gloves.
There are 2 believable uses for it. #1 knitting a tool for knitting a glove. It uses each hole to size each finger as knit around a side until each finger is done ( & connected from previous knitted finger) , them knit the palm to finish the glove. Nice to have good, easily made gloves wherever you are! #2. A device for writing & decoding secret messages. The size if the hole relates to a particular disk so letters can be transposed If you have a matching key- the lettered decoding disk with the right size hole.
Both seem possible & there are videos showing both usages.
The glove theory sounds legit tbh, totally see how it would work
I have the best theory ... "Figitus Spinnerus Maximus!"
I like the theory that they are to test coin sizes to make sure they are the correct size and havnt been snipped. Dont forget, roman coins were made of gold and silver, so the metal itself was precious. And heres my theory for the future: in a society that has either surpassed electricity or reverted to pre electrical technology, phones and tablets will be found. Archeologists will assume that they had a religious purpose. They are called The Black Stones of Wisdom. "We dont know exactly what they did, but we presume it was a religious purpose. They are usually black, but sometimes white. We presume that the black ones were owned by the lay people, while the white ones were owned by the priest class."
Birthstones from the springs of evolution.. they reflect the colour of incoming meteorites. Lava marbles firing up from Earth to meet the meteorites just as Earth capacitor electricity meets lightning strikes.
Equal and opposites forces that first created our sacred spring waters of birth.. yes ours are black when Earth wins the waters over white hot alien meteorites. Ruling St.Alien (stall Lyons - slag/glas Rhinestone ‘stallions’) are white rot virus lite weights like chalkasian/euro pjumice type Lymes stanes of St.Germanus🏴 etc from the Great Dying Event of tHeir 1st Ytrot viruS coming 95%☠️
Except that they arent standardized at all
Looks like it could be a blacksmiths version of a 3d printed benchy
Love the "before i tell you" gambit...
It's like the "not to mention" one that precedes mentioning something!
2,000 years from now archaeologists will find a fidget spinner and think it's for "ritual use" and cause mysterious ponderings.
I've spent a lot of time trying to figure these things out (even had my own go at casting one - it did not go completely well). All of the 'practical' explanations for these objects fail to fit all of the known examples - for example 'taper gauge' is a common idea, but doesn't fit the examples where the opposing holes are the same size; 'knitting loom for gloves' is another one, but again, would be terribly impractical with some of the examples where the holes are very small. This is true of all of the explanations I've seen - they fit only a subset of examples.
Absolutely my thoughts. Every theory works to a degree but also falls down with one specific aspect.
Interesting. My amateur opinion was that it would be difficult to cast because of the partially enclosed volume inside.
It certainly wasn't a one-size-fits-all tool or object. Objects of similar design could have been used for different purposes.
**That is a Field Spear Sharpener.** With a hot enough fire in the field, the object can be used to sharpen the tips of spears by using the holes to find one that fits your current spear tip condition. Then using heat make it smaller by progressively using one smaller hole at a time, twisting the spear point in and spinning it. Then applying more heat and moving to the next hole. When you are done, everyone will have a sharp spear of the same point thickness. This would not leave wear on the device as the metal is hot and easily shaped with very little contact friction. Although heat damage may be present, they could also solved that problem by using an alloy to avoid that issue. This is valuable because you do not need a blacksmith, just a process and fuel to start a fire hot enough and you follow the process. It becomes idiot proof and you get a consistent outcome.
Bringing an army into Italy without Senate permission was considered a serious breach of law and a threat to civil order. They had no use for weapons at home. This is why they were not found in Italy and only on the front and various places fighting took place they were needed. The balls double as decoration and also keep the ball off the surface and level when placed on a surface for use for better footing as each side has raised rings that compromises the flat surface if they were not present.
They are not easy to make, so they are not many and had a single purpose used during fighting so was not widely shared. I would imagine some mention in soldier diaries or soldier training/field manuals of the day. Could have also been bespoke, ad-hoc fashioned in the field by one dude that became popular meme with the foot soldiers, never documented..
My guess anyhow!
It’s… it’s a candle holder ….
Sorry Anthony ! - Bronze is softer than steel so it won't sharpen your spear for you !
It's part of a game of chance the soldiers played. These once had a wooden ball inside that would only pass through the largest hole . You toss it and if the ball pops out you win. It could also be a range finder to estimate the days travel.
One thing you need to remember is that these items did not look the same as they would have when they were made and used. Today, they're covered in a layer of oxide, giving them a dark color, but when they were new, they would have been polished to a bright and shiny gold color.
Great point. Also why make it out of bronze? If its utilitarian then I would think there'd be iron versions.
@@BeyondEcstasy If you made one of iron, that long ago, today, it would just be a reddish spot in the dirt.
@@ThatsMrPencilneck2U doesn't mean they weren't also made out of iron. Those hypothetical ones just didn't survive. 🤷🏻♀️
@@feliciagaffney1998 The other thing is the state of iron smithing in Classical times. Iron was hard to works with and the products were low quality, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any really good black smiths that could make these things.
My unsupported opinion: it was used in some kind of gambling activity.
Yes, I have always thought that too. It's shape means it could bounce unpredictably, which is perfect for a flutter Perhaps it was bounced off a wall and where it fell mattered. I've watched my son throw his similarly shaped balls (not quite dodecahedrons), and it's design provides the necessary challenge in catching it.
@@PrincipledUncertainty Gambling is my guess too though I lean to the idea that it was some sort of tally device.
Was gambling not allowed in Italy ?
@@cwill2065 Only Texas hold 'em!
Gambling or a game to keep active.
The holes seem to be different sizes. A measuring tool?
Yup, it's definitely up there on the list. The holes increase in size as you go around the object in most cases. But why not all over the Roman empire?
@@pwhitewick Celtic measuring device.
Maybe for measuring coins? Make sure no-one was clipping off the gold. :o)
@@surreygoldprospector576If you accidentally dropped a coin through one of the holes you'd have a nightmare trying to get it out again
Some of them have all different sized holes, but some of them have all the same sized holes (and some have no holes at all)
The five regular (or “Platonic”) solids are the only closed, plane-faced objects that can be constructed with regular polygons as faces, meeting at the same three-dimensional angles. They are the dodecahedron (12 faces), icosahedron (20 faces), octahedron (8 faces), cube (6 faces), and tetrahedron (4 faces).
They seem to have been known to many ancient cultures, and the geographic distribution of these metallic ones makes your Celtic hypothesis very probable to me. Versions of them have been found in clay dating back to pre-Roman times in North Africa and the Middle East.
They also formed an important part of classical Greek cosmology as evidenced by their appearance in Plato’s Timaeus dialogue as the basis for the composition of the Earth and the heavens. For the Greeks, they had a kind of religious, philosophical, and mathematical-scientific significance. In 1596, Johannes Kepler presented an approximation of the orbital distances of the six then-known planets using a model of nested platonic solids. They remain today a fascinating topic in geometry and appear in chemistry, crystallography, and biology, where many different virus capsids (including Covid) have been found to take an icosahedral shape.
Their study was an important part of Greek geometry and led to the classification of the semi-regular (or “Archimedean”) solids which require two or more different regular faces to compose. There are 13 of them, 7 of which can be formed by truncation, (that is cutting off the vertices or corners) of the Platonic solids. The soccer ball, as we Americans call it, has the faces of a truncated icosahedron.
That is an odd "thing". What is doubly odd, is that I have seen one of those and NOT in a museum. You have got me wracking my brain to try and remember where I saw it. You can bet there are many sitting on peoples shelves as "items of interest", not knowing they are 1,700/1,800 odd years old roman.
Oooooh,.... get thinking!!!
Pollywell object
a photo of one was used for SCP-184, if you've ever read that?
@@keiyakins I hadn't, but am just ready it now. Its an interesting use of the object for fictional inventiveness.
@@esecallum That is possible.
When a hole developed in chain-mail armor, these were used to facilitate the repairs. The damaged area was centered over the hole, while the knobs held the section in place.
That would make excellent sense if the Romans had chain maille... 🤩
@@ChelleLlewes you forgot about time travelling medieval knights 😂
I would need to see a demonstration video of that.
@@andanssas 😂
@@ChelleLlewes The Romans indeed used chain-mail armor. (Google just confirmed it :)
I already figured these out some time ago. Of course, I could be wrong. I believe they're gauges for the production of wooden dowels. A woodworker could run one, one-handed, down the shaft of a dowel to check the diameter along the whole length. This is backed up the fact that, as far as I know, the largest hole is always rough and irregular. That means the largest hole's only purpose is to be bigger than the hole on the opposite side, so these are meant for something to be passed all the way through. I suspect the 20-sided one is similar, but for metal wire. You wouldn't have to feed the wire through the opposite side because, being flexible, you could just pull it out the large hole. Dowels are used for a variety of things, from weapons to curtain rods. And they break. That means you could find one of these anywhere a craftsman would need to replace one. That includes bath houses. They wouldn't be very common because few craftsmen would likely be able to afford the costly investment of having a smithy create one.
That tool could be made with wood, this object has taken a lot of time a skill to make for just a dowel gauge.
@@dfjtobin Wood expands, contracts, wears out, breaks, and decomposes. Metal too, but nowhere near as much. There may have been wooden ones that rotted away long ago. If you want a tool that lasts, lacking plastic, you make it out of metal. I believe I covered the time and skill part right at the end of my comment. Yep. I did. You'll have to try harder. In other words, come up with a better theory.
@@dfjtobin Being easily replaceable in wood doesn't cut it either. That just means you have to keep something else in metal so you can get the sizes right each time. I didn't just come up with this out of nowhere. I've known about them and considered them for years. I didn't know about the irregular holes until recently. If it were for religion, every hole would likely be pretty. I've thought this through.
@@beastmastreakaninjadar6941 @beastmastreakaninjadar6941 why do they all have the balls? balls aren't needed for the tool you describe, this object is not for making dowles, sorry to burst your bubble.
Except the holes on opposite sides are usually different diameters.
These "Roman Dodecahedrons" have been demonstrated on multiple sources to be templates with which to make woolen handgloves that can be easily fitted to anyone's hands/fingers. Demonstrations were quite compelling.
The small painted wooden ball that was inside has rotted away.......
Ahhhhh... maybe
Well, if it were not for the 20 faced object, I would stick to the Theory that the dodecahedron was used to connect wooden sticks, you would use a few dodecahedrons to build up a structure. Maybe something to hang pots over the fire? (uneducated guess)
The Roman eight-ball to help with haruspicy
@@rebny7801 I was thinking something like measuring dowel thickness. Can't think why you'd do that tho.
@@rebny7801 You would expect them to be more common then for either option. Also they were combined in some way you would expect some of them to be found together, these seem to all be found in isolation.
A navigation device? Get alignment of specific holes and specific stars and you could tell the direction. Extremely important outside Italy in non-Roman territories.
If I remember a container for catapulting incendiary materials, flax straw or other materials combined with oils and waxes ignited and launched. Designed for use against infantry in dry fields. In the 1960's I took four years of Latin, I seem to remember this from translating Latin from some of the books that I found in a used book store.
I've been saying this for years, it's simple, the items all have holes, allows it to sink not float! Ball on points to hit but not damage! Consistent ware and shape to function no matter who it lands or sits! It's simple. It's a laundry ball! Place your delicate clothing in a barrel, put in your laundry ball, seal barrel and turn you barrel on an A'Frame. With Hot water of cause, clothing type! These should be tested inside a sealed barrel with warm water , diffrent clothing and turned in the barrel for an hour, experimental archeology to see if it can wash clothing like we have baffles in our washing machine now. They had barrels, sealable, Aframe, to turn barrel on like a wagon axel, and they're found often around military sites, the military had uniforms and were cleaner than most population. Or use it the same way to make a butter or cheese churning machine! Simple
Except...they don't all have holes. And metal often tends to sink simply out of pique... 😉
Good thought-ramble, though!
This is a tool for knitting gloves! I don‘t remember the video of the lady who proofed by making a nice glove using it. Have a search.
...except we've never found any Roman knitted gloves.
He shows that actually, if you blink you might miss it tho.
@j.f.christ8421 AND HOW WOULD WE FIND 1000 YEAR OLD KNITWEAR!?
@@crakkbone What do you mean "how would we find them?" Same way we find everything else! Graves would be good start, we've dug up plenty of those; heaps of clothing but not many knitted gloves...
I could dig up a pair of chopsticks and claim they're for knitting as well. Or vice-versa. I'm in the "people like making weird crap" camp.
@@j.f.christ8421 If you put time into thinking you might conclude that it’s because biodegradable materials don’t tend to last very long?
Btw. Gloves may not survive but the wearing of gloves is documented in correspondences between Roman soldiers, serving in colder regions, and their friends and family back home. Kinda proves that they did wear them eh?
@@hisroyalblueness And if you put in a bit of effort you'd know clothing from the Roman period exists, it didn't all rot away. We have found items made of wool, we have found gloves, but the point is we have not found any knitted woollen gloves.
It's for making jewellery. You put a stick in one of the holes and brade metal wire around the stick it makes a chain. Different holes for different size chains.
Just my to cents but a workmans tool for keeping diameters consistent. Cheers loved this one.
Then why not more widespread? New and useful ideas tended to move relatively quickly during the Roman Empire
It's a Roman communication encryption device I forget his name but he's an engineer and his very first you tube video explains it well.
They've figured out what these are. They determine they were used for candles but not a candle holder. It was more like a life extender. It would be inserted over the flame of the candle creating a reservoir for the candle wax to sit in extending the life of the candle. Candles come in different sizes explaining the different size holes. Additionally it acted as a decorative ornament casting lighting effects on the wall. In Roman times wax candles are hard to come by and I believe were somewhat expensive creating the need to extend the life of a candle as long as possible
and I seem to recall they burned oil lamps more than candles in Italy, so probably why there weren't many found there. It very well could be a candle follower.
no its a cypher tool.
If these were used in such a manner they would heat up very quickly, and melt the part of the candle they rest on.
these are too heavy to sit on top of a candle, they would tip the candle over, or get hot and melt the candle below the wick.
I thought the experts has determined they were used for knitting fingers for gloves. In North Africa and Italy they didn't need many gloves, whereas near Scotland everyone needed gloves.
Several pairs and socks.
No because knitting was invented in the 11th century. Also it absolutely can get cold in North Africa, especially if you're stationed along the Sahara or in the highlands, even today the highlands get regular snow.
@@hedgehog3180 You can't say definitively that knitting was first invented in the 11th century. Also, if this artifact is based on a Celtic handicraft technique which later used some Roman metallurgy, but then disappeared as the empire collapsed it would conform to the pattern seen.
@@hedgehog3180 people have been weaving/knitting for more than 2000 years. It gets colder in Scotland than Africa. Whenever someone doesn't know what an object is they say it's a religious. Believe whatever you like.
CLOWN
Maybe something used for calculating precise angles when constructing buildings? If you had string and you tied it off on one of the nodes, you could use multiple dodecahedrons to precisely calculate various angles while laying building foundations or potentially even the magnificent arches or domed ceilings that we see in many of the grand old buildings throughout Europe.
We also have to consider that even if an object wasn't found all over the empire, it may have been a pretty common thing, as the empire was vast and there were local cultural differences.
What we can certainly say about the object is that it was not important enough as to have been written about (thus no Ancient Computer or Ancient Interdimensional Portal Generator) and it would have thus be something pretty trivial. The knitting theory makes sense to me: I did use a French Knitter as a kid, it's basically a wooden tube with four nails on one end. The "nails" can have different forms, and they have rounded heads, much like this dodecahedron. The icosahedron could have served the same purpose. It would, in any case, have to have been something very mundane.
It could also have been a religious artifact. There were lots of religions in the empire with many local variations, just like modern-day sects...
Amazing work, in any case.
That the hole sizes are different tells us it is a gauging device for checking size of many things - spears, arrows, handles, many many things. I note the twenty sided one had many concentric circles - which is great for measuring x-section size. In a time without a govewrnment capable of regulating sizes that easily, master craftsmen would have made their own. The spheres on the corners could have combined with the holes for measures of length. I expect the shape of the device gave it strength and made it easy to carry and flip around. A craftsman who made his own would remember what each hole was designed to measure.
But... each object was in itself a different size
Then what about the ones where all the holes are the same size?
and the ones with no holes at all?
The one with no holes had concentric circles - serve a similar purpose
It was used to resize & straighten timber for Arrows.
As always ... Very Interesting. Your (and your ladies) work is well apprreciated.
Here's a random take that may be totally nonsensical. I've recently learned of what are known as 'cargo cults', in particular there is a very famous example amongst the islanders in south east asia.
See what will happen is, ever since WWII, these communities have been crafting useless faux representations of the technologies that we had exposed them to during the war, in hopes of regaining contact with what they more or less failed to understand as the outside world. Things like coconut headphones or hay bale biplanes.
Now I'm not at all saying that is what this is, because I'm wholesalely unfamiliar with this story, BUT what I am saying is, is that it's introduced me to a new point of view when it comes to these ooparts.
We look at something like this, and we struggle with it, because it seemingly has no apparent purpose. The one thing I think most fail to consider, is that it may not have held any purpose to the person who crafted it as well.
Perhaps it's less of an item, and more of an image. Perhaps in some other form that little doohickey will actually do something.
But again, I sort of doubt that's the case here, merely supplanting the theory is all 🤷
That all being said, the Icosahedron does pose significant counter balance to that claim. It is strange, is it not, that you would have these two items, clearly in reference to one another, and one would be ubiquitously useless, whereas the other singular and substantially more intricate.
Almost as though the German found Icosahedron was much closer to the original object in purpose and design, and the 'Roman' dodecahedron nothing more than a pale imitation.
Further, supposing these items were religious, which I'm inclined to argue they absolutely are not, you would think that would have guaranteed mention of them within some sort of scripture. I'm sure for nearly any religious artifacts, especially ones able to be found in such quantities, with over a hundred found there are probably hundreds if not thousands, ya know point being, I guarantee you there are writings of the cross, of candelabras, of dreidels, of all other manner of associated possessions. It'd be foolhardy to assert that this is the one item of religious import that despite having written history, said devout believers would not believe it worth chronicling. That's simply not how human beings work, even the most noblest.
The point you make about the lack of wear is intriguing as well. And whilst it had spurred another thought, the Icosahedron dashed it. Given it's distribution I had considered for a moment that it was a portable circling device. I can't imagine there being many uses for such a thing at such a point in history though. The thought being that it's robust design enabled it to be quite portable as compared to a traditional set of stencils or a potentially fragile compass which I'm unsure as to whether or not they even had at the time. Just a thought, not necessarily a good one.
But anyways, these objects are crafted with a certain finesse, there is a very almost ritualistic type of ornate design to them that gives them a very alien look indeed. Both literally and figuratively. Yet despite such precision, as had been mentioned, they exhibit little to no wear whatsoever. Meaning that the intent behind them is likely similar to that of religious import, although for the aforementioned reasons I just struggle to imagine that such a treasured and presumably symbolic object would fail to be recorded.
Further, if it was religious, what is it symbolizing? Surely even if there was not mention of the object directly, there would be some other contemporary clues as to the nature of the belief. I.e. writings or frescoes or other similar iconography of any sort, but given how stumped people are, I presume that doesn't exist.
So you're left with a useless object, that was crafted with precision and care, that exhibits no wear and likely served as more of a piece of decor or symbolism, and despite it's ubiquity the only other reference to its existence comes in the form of an even more cryptic and even more ornate object of similar workmanship...
My original supposition is looking a lot better right about now, I mean, how do you write about something when you don't even know what to say?
I'd be incredibly curious to see whether or not the Icosahedron is older or not. And it's so strange how it's the only one of its kind despite these having been found in such number.
Truly it does almost speak towards this idea of a culture creating these meaningless objects that only ever meant something to the people who saw where they came from.
And this may just be me, but you then figure with the antikythera device which came far prior, and to me they share a similar sort of mythos, from the design to the material to their out of place nature, I truly do believe there is some solid weight behind that claim.
But there are a lot of them, and they're all over the place. The dispersal is the one thing that doesn't jive very well with that notion that I'm struggling to reconcile.
Nevertheless, one of these days someone will figure something out, and I'm sure it will either be incredibly fascinating, or incredibly mundane, when they do 😅
You use it to knit a 5 finger glove.
For making gloves and very effective. They are still used today.
I thought knitting was invented after the Western Roman Empire?
R34arded pillock.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 You thought absolutely correctly.
But basic facts have never prevented imbecilic ignoramuses from spewing their BS.
I saw a vid that showed that it could quite easily have been used as an item used by the military to decode messages by using the different size holes as the point of reference and of course the appropriate sypher. Similar to the enigma machine but not so mechanical.
It's a knitting tool for making tube shaped objects. This is a good example of how academia is very male-dominated.
Men up until the invention of industrial knitting machines. Men used to knit as much as women. My Uncle was in The Navy, he knitted, so did many of his shipmates.
Sorry about that weird syntax error, it's just gone there and I need to go to bed!
Three a.m.!
That's my thinking too. domestic objects not considered important enough for the literate to write about. Developed from a Celtic handicraft tradition so not spread over the whole empire. Earlier simple forms could have existed made of wood or bone that have now disappeared. When Roman metallurgy became available a few affluent women could have them made in bronze and combined into a dodecahedron. But they were rare high-status items that declined and disappeared with the fall of the empire.
@@jakedee4117 No sign of wear, so all these affluent women kept them as symbols of that they could knit, but chose not to. Or something. Also, for knitting tubes of various dimensions, you would prefer a varying number of knobs around the holes, depending on the hole size. We don't see that here. Also, no trace of any sort of knitted textiles from the period, but that may have just rotted away.
Looks like a nice candle holder. Fits different sizes, depends what the shop has on offer. Bought a sprung coil one to go around the base of the candle, but the Roman one in this here video looks more durable.
Its a weaving form,used to make chains from wrapped gold wire,thats why they are found with treasure and wax for stretching the weave through the various holes, the holes also work to hold the different size dowells for wrapping the different size chains. Copper and gold were hammered into wire and weaved into chain by the smiths that made the dodecas
I saw a post *a while* back positing that it's a knitting aid-- there's some kind of knitted thing that was much easier to start using the knobs at the corners. Maybe it was the fingertips of gloves? 🤔
We understand that each hole is a different size. I also think I heard Phil say that the the diameters of the holes in different examples of the object are not the same. He didn't tell us if all of the objects have the same ratios among the hole diameters. In my opinion that knocks out all the theories I've heard so far, except that it might be an aid for knitting gloves. After all, Northwest Europe is where a Roman soldier might want, for the first time in his life, a warm pair of gloves.
The comment section is worth more than the whole video. Subscribed xd