smoke bomb is op. slow + blind + dot + radiant on prismatic + recharges on dodge + lets you also have a nade + instant activation + radar manipulation. Using it as a trap its okay, but using it as a panic uno reverse has turned it into a giant mess in pvp
Hunters in general are OP. Dodge allowing you to instantly ignore melee and not needing to invest one point into Strength, on top of spawning an incredibly overpowered decoy, on top of slowing your enemies, on top of gaining a faster dodge when you slow someone, on top of the best melees in the game (smoke + threaded spike) on top of the most OP super ever to hit PvP (Storm's Edge - literally three Thundercrashes in one super lmao), on top of an unnecessarily buffed Swarm Grenade, on top of a spammable class ability is just absurdly oppressive to fight. Hunters just have far too many OP abilities to crutch, completely shifting the flow of battle from a single button press.
@@literallynobody1515agreed and this is coming from a hunter main, I tried to play my warlock and it was far tougher cards vs when I used my hunter the dodge is too free and needs a major cool down, also clones shouldn’t show up on radar at all plus the dodge cooldown itself needs a nerf with all the changes going on now
Based on this video, I can assume we’ve ALL experienced what I like to call, the Invisible Guardian. Y’know, there’s always one or two people whose character doesn’t load in until the last 2 minutes of the match? Those people lol
I really thought they were gonna add crates to the transmat system, just to help the team that's behind. The death streak is a good idea. I also really enjoy the transmat system since it actually encourages primary play, and adds risks to spending special
Its sad that, aside from the really blatant outliars, the sandbox is really enjoyable right now, but if I want to play it I have to deal with some of the most offensive matchmaking in all of gaming. And I still fail to see why this decision was made, the current sbmm and lobby balancing effectively ruins the game experience for high skill players, and it means that 5 low skill players will randomly get a few games a day where they have no fighting chance to do anything but see average to above average players stomp them and have a sweat on their team complain that they shouldn't play pvp. I get that the GOAL was protect low skill players from the 'sweats' but by only allowing them to get farmed while on those players team, you haven't done that at all. The only population of the game I feel like actively benefits from this system would be people in the top 20-30% of the skill curve, who'll almost always play games that are either fine (Matching skill when not at the highest skill spectrum means less sandbox outlier abuse) or they get to farm 5 new lights while hiding from a boogie man. If you want to to really enjoy 6s, i've found that duo or trio queuing has been the only way to do so consistently, since I know that I'm not expected to win the game myself, and I have the leway to play for enjoyment rather than sweating pick apart the groups who run around without punishment. Also feels bad when 99% of my pve friends literally just can't play pvp with me, otherwise their experience is completely ruined. God forbid high skill players want to relax and not sweat games with casual friends. They're so busy trying to thwart people from sweating out and stomping every game that they ruin the experience for everyone themselves. (Also lets not get things twisted, you can absolutely stack and sweat out of your mind in 6s, and never drop a game, nothing here stops that, it just means more players wanna do that bc the alternative is less fun)
Yeah, I've seen folks have to run alt accounts and play alot more lax to make sure they don't throw their more casual friends into the Skill Island Matchmaking, which makes me super sad to see.
Sbmm in Control is brutal if me and another guy on my team aren’t fragging out almost 80% of the time it’s a mercy or they are getting mercied. I just want to play a casual 6v6 mode with no sbmm so I can vibe and chill
I think regarding the special ammo economy in quickplay and non-trials playlists, Bungie said they are reworking the Transmat system and what is there currently is just a temporary placeholder.
it's a place holder in terms of UI but will operate near identical to how it does now, the physically dropping ammo for only you on a kill is meant to be you just get the ammo immediately but they said this wasn't working for some reason. either way the system is awful, in quickplay its noticably bad but in comp when you're trying to win it's painful.
hit the nail on the head at 10:30. its absolutely insane that bungie actually promotes a system that thinks i'm supposed to be the hero out of my entire team and be able to singlehandedly 1v6 and win
Came across your channel in the destiny 2 twitch directory a few months ago. Your gameplay instantly captivated me. Just wanted to say as I’ve watched your content, I’ve come to really appreciate your intelligence and depth of knowledge. 100% agree on the transmat system for reasons you listed. Special should be special.
honestly i would like to see maybe one more playlist add sbmm. Right now we have only 1 outlier protection game mode and all the rest are open skill which bungie has specifically stated drives down the population of crucible. Im not asking for open skill to go away completely as i think it definitely serves a purpose and provides a place for higher skill players to go when they dont want to try hard or to get a better connection. But I do think having a single playlist specifically catered to sbmm that is not outlier protection (since that does very little from what i can tell anecdotally) could provide a place for new lights to go play with and against each other more frequently than they do now
Out of everything Kaseem said I only disagree with one thing (SBMM).and it’s not the fact that he’s wrong,Its the fact that it will never change a lot of these fps games constantly cater to the casual community i honestly can’t remember the last time the SBMM in this game was borderline bearable.And ironically when you stack in QP people back out and leave thus giving the same boring result🤷♂️
Absolutely nailed the comp issue with the brain rot blueberries that you get on the team. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Legitimately I could kill two by myself and leave one abso but these blueberries wouldn’t push up under any circumstance
@@Awfully_good it’s just horrific bro, I’m sick of having 0.4s top 98% elos on my team in all modes the game expects me to carry in 6s and trials. Before sbmm was acknowledged I moaned about this on a D2 Reddit and got dragged for it saying there’s no sbmm etc. I refuse to believe it when 9/10 games I’m expected to carry 2 0.2 Timmy’s against 2 people with 816 and 568 flawlesses (literally had this the other day) some weird stuffs going on behind the scenes without a doubt, I’m platinum in comp currently because I don’t play a lot but I get the most horrendous teammates in plat games I really don’t understand. So disheartening playing pvp and being molested every game due to stuff out of my control. Yes I’m a good player at 2.5% elo but I can’t carry vegtables against a team full of no lifers
@@gitupmechavvy2569I know exactly what you mean because I got dragged to hell as well on Reddit when I brought this up 🤣 I’m always down to play if you’re down Eclipse#3339
The transmat bar is amazing, and the ammo crates just needs to be removed entirely. The only thing they should’ve considered was lowering the rate of return for shotguns and fusions individually from snipers imo. Great video, transmat is the way.
Also, you’re completely correct on the sbmm. Bungie sets good players up for insane multi-carries. I have 10s of screenshots where I have a 5+ efficiency at the top of the board, while my entire team is negative. It also seems like time played is a factor in addition to “skill.” How they calculate skill definitely needs to be revisited and should also be shared transparently.
@@alphamindtacticsthis, I said something about this in a destiny 2 sub and got downvoted into oblivion by 0.2 Timmy’s (before sbmm was introduced/acknowledged) The game expects me to carry 5 brainrot consumers in 6s and trials puts the 98% elo .4s on my team whilst the whole other 3 are 1kd-2kd+. It’s not a fun experience having to play carefully and baby my blueberries around… at this point I’m genuinely convinced there is some form of machine learning bot AI in my games smh
Cant believe checkmate was a thing. Post TFS 6s is beyond chaotic. I genuinely believe this is the worst ability focused sandbox we have experienced in the span of 10 years. Even worse than Beyond Light stasis shitshow.
Matchmaking has been broken for years, but the previous special ammo system was better. Back then each player had much more agency, now Destiny's crucible is a generic team-shooter deathball.
13:40 this right here. the whole idea of playing video games or any game should have some sort of reason or goal. to have fun, to make content, to feel good getting that one weapon roll or exotic, incentive. I struggle to find a reason to play a lot of the time. i miss that 2018 feeling of 6v6 clips with unique weapons or challenges... 9:35 this happens to me for momentum control. momentum... i don't play the entire day, get endless and hit two nighthawk seventh columns. next 10 games are balanced so poorly that the moment I leave the match, it's a mercy within two minutes. between 70-93% chances of the other team winning. to the point of watching how some play and legitimately wondering if they added NPC bot opponents into the game. its baffling to me.
I was wondering why going flawless gort easier after playing so much pvp. I totally forgot that 6v6 was sbmm. I guess that has lowkey made me a better player XD
abt your feelings on special ammo systems, have you used anything else that isnt a shotgun or sniper? maybe try the new special ammo sword, the caster frame is my favorite so far, mixed w telesto/ticuus/colony perk and it can multikill while also being fun to use
As always your video is razor sharp on the problem of pvp and it's well thought out. I was really enjoying the ammo economy prior to the final shape. It was such a nice change of paste to use my primary not special simulator trade city of a pvp experience. I played trials at the begging of the final shape and the ammo meter was still there. I actually do agree that trials is the best pvp game mode for several reasons including the ammo economy. But when I played comp or IB it is absolutely back to being not fun. Just special ammo everywhere. I mean they spawn you with one shot and give you a second right infront of you like wtf is the point just give ppl 2 special shots and you are encouraged to just use special. The pvp experience becomes use special to get kills and then when you run out grap from ground or ammo boxes keep doing this until you die and you get more special when you spawn. The old system required you to know when to use your special and when not to. What primaries I can use and use to do so. Now it's just terrible.
I’m hearing the same story about the matchmaking and lobby balancing and in my matches, I’m constantly going up against the outliers and barely fighting for my life. I haven’t touched trials in a while so I might mess around with it. I don’t think Bungie should just let PvP go because they’ve stated that it’s a part of the game but they need to actually show up and stand on bidness
Funny enough, comp is my go-to playlist for PvP trials whenever you aren't getting back to back to back files carries, and group matches against communicating teammates, but thats not always the case.
I think they need to go the defiant route and remove sbmm maybe add their own version of a welcome playlist if the want somewhere for new people to practice
Genuinely thought I was going insane. Started playing this game second week into May and I love it. I’m adept 1, top 0.1% in rumble top 0.8% in elimination, top 0.2% in clash and then 6% in trials. But when I play control I get piss slammed because I have 5 bots on my team. Genuinely don’t know what to do other than play in a stack
Very similar experience for me. I think they must use combat rating as mines fairly high (higher than it should be) and I feel that hero thing. If I don’t play hard meta it’s a mercy. As for lobby balance I feel that most in competitive, I had 8 straight losses, fight me, 2+ kd each game, just expected to carry more than I’m capable of. Control also my sweatiest lobbies
I think PvP was best before Into the Light. After that, the Crucible was flooded with the exact type of players SBMM was meant for. Additionally, the Crucible weapons/ability tuning was best in Season of the Wish. Now it's raining Special Ammo to counter the people double- and triple-proc'ing abilities. Seriously?! That's what you call "hustling backwards".
I stopped caring about PvP at this point, there are 2 unshakable problems that will never get addressed. Lobby balancing sucks balls, but it's a necessary Band-Aid-Fix since the player base is almost always too low and/or split for normal matchmaking to work. People are usually arguing about SBMM, but for Destiny it's pointless, there are never enough people in your matchmaking pool to make a fair game anyway (and you just end up having the same people in your lobbies regardless of matchmaking type) The second problem is PvP being the eternal fallback plan. When a new DLC/season releases, we get shiny new stuff, population (in PvE and PvP) is high, people are grinding or trying out new stuff and Bungie is happy. Hence, changes are not necessary. But in the dry points, PvE alone could never keep the game alive, late starters and dedicated raiders etc. are not enough by a long shot. That's when PvP-quality is suddenly super important for player retention and we see the 'renewed focus' in action (just look at all the stuff leading up to Final Shape). But there is never any intention to make Destiny the perfect PvP-experience. It just needs to be enough to keep a core player base until the next big content drop. I might be a bit too cynical, but I just don't see a point in investing my time any longer.
I think a big fix for comp and quick play is making the rewards better and a little easier to obtain. Even as a consistent and very devoted PvP player, playing my shitty comp games all to get a terrible roll on rose sucks. The reason why trials loot is so good is there are rarely bad perk options, and each weapon is competitive in the sandbox or unique. This cannot be said of the regular crucible weapons are really bad, and often don’t have competitive perks or stats. Ideally, the playlist weapons could be a little more “chase worthy” even for pve mains. I will consistently remind folks that PvP mains have to go into pve to get the best stuff, but the same cannot be said of pve mains. Point being, making the loot very good for PvP will bring more people into the playlist, and take some strain off of the current system to allow for improvements
Im not in disagreement with your statement concerning loot, but at the end of day, that's extrinsic motivation. The competitive gameplay experience needs to be fun firs. Sure, good loot helps pvp population, but as I stated the latter half of the video, the gameplay experience is not rewarding or fun to most people playing the game.
Trials fucked me today, I got matched with a duo of DORKS that just ran in and got farmed. Fed the whole game. Lost my flawless. Posting this here to vent.
same, i was trying to solo queue flawless bc i don’t have anyone added that enjoys pvp. lost my lightouse game (mercy was lost for same reason) bc people that don’t know how to play the game
I share your pain… but this is reality. You share the game with ppl of many skills and capabilities. This is the system you have to work with unfortunately. Either stack up, clutch up or play something else.
@@josephcrotty9553 i usually do but i can’t carry EVERY game, especially against two competent players (1.6+) and my 90th percentile teammates. i’ve gone flawless three times this weekend with multiple wins on a flawless card, just horrid luck still lmao
@@afri2n sometimes your luck just does run out… but any period of extended playtime in any playlist will eventually see you in lopsided matches simply due to the probability of it. It’s not every match though, even though the times you are outmatched feels horrible. Blueberries (like myself) are out there, and if we weren’t…. You would not have any range of skills. If a playlist is completely devoid of lower skill players, you would in effect have sbmm. No one wants that lol
Skill base matchmaking is terrible because most player base sucks in PvP. Bungie basically confirmed this when change control back SBMM. As biggest reason was there was to much skill gap between majority of pl😮ayers.
Lobby balancing is at its worst in doubles clash. 9 times out of 10 I'll get paired with the new light and facing a stacked team. Kind of a fun challenge to 1v2 though ig
can someone explain to me why people think shotguns are balanced, they're used by 90% of the players in each lobby and I almost feel like I'm throwing if I'm not running one. Is this not op by definition?
Shotguns are popular because it's a lot harder to "Waste" in the current ammo economy. Shotty has always been favored because of barrier to entry as well
At this point I just play the multiplayer for Halo 2/Halo 3 through MCC if I want a "Bungie" pvp game. I know 343 made it but still. New stuff in Destiny pvp just doesn't work for me anymore. At least those old Halo games had balance, good maps, actual power weapons on the map to contest to like the rocket launcher or the energy sword, instead of just ammo for everyone's whatever weapon. No bringing op weapons from raids/trials. Just no stupid mmo-like variables...was just a simple pvp arena shooter.
i agree with everything but the special ammo system. i cant stand dying to somebody because they have special and i dont. maybe i had to use a shotgun shot secure a round in trials. with the special ammo meter system im now at disadvantage, im at 0 ammo, while the enemy has a shot left. it feels like dying to heavy. spawning in with 1 shot provides even playgrounds at every round. it’s already annoying enough dying to something random that you cant control, but adding this randomness to specials makes it even worse. im willing to tolerate some of the special weapon jousting for even playgrounds. id also be ok with specials moving into the heavy slot, but that will never ever happen again
The transmat bar isn’t gone for good. They said iterating on the bar system was difficult because of technical issues using it as it wasn’t originally intended for this use. They are going to rebuild the meter and reimplement it into the 1-1-1 system.
I will take that with a grain of salt because Bungie has a history of stating that they are going to take something out of the game to 'improve" it only for it to either never return or they do bring it back and its no different then when it was taken away.
the point at the end on pvp not feeling rewarding, the answer is the same it's been for years. you're not rewarded for improving at the game at all, games don't get easier, you don't put up bigger numbers unless on an extreme end, and the sandbox generally while yes there are more options, if you're against a good hard meta player ur gonna struggle. only recently have we entered this narrative of players look for different rewards, which yes as a loot end goal is true but in the context of d2's pvp the reward should be identical to every other pvp game on the planet. get better = kill more / bigger rank number. and because of the state of the afformentioned points (not even considering the comp system) this just isn't the case.
also was kind of mentioned with prismatic hunter but we're literally in a total state of you don't need to master a subclass or certain playstyle, you can literally just pick the most op aspect from all kits available. literally can't imagine playing any hunter class other than prismatic.
SBMM needs to fucking go. Like you just said, the fact that Trials is the easier/more relax playlist is insane. Control is a shit hole and you pretty much need to play with meta weapons in order to have an okay time, not a good one. Comp is a fucking joke with SBMM on it as well. Don't get me started with special ammo... God.
PVP is so trash in Destiny 2, I went back to playing Rainbow Six Siege. At least I know if I get killed it's because of me and not some BS that seems to happen way too often in D2 PVP.
Personally, I would rather a special ammo system that rewards primary kills, but not from damage, from kills. Say I take out 2 guardians with a primary, I should get a single bullet dropped right into my special weapons mag so I do not need to put on some dumb holster mod. Sure, snowball effect 🤷♂️ as in bad players get snowballed and turn their now snowflaked feelings into a Reddit post that bungie listens to for some odd reason instead of dropping in-game voting systems or polls that’s progress can monitored by the player base until a final vote date is reached Imagine how many players would vote to get AE removed 😂
Prismatic hunter literally broke pvp and trials, I don’t get it why bungie have to make hunters broken each expansion..are they catering to the masses or something?
I wish comp was just round based like trials and rotate on all the trials maps that they use. The game modes right now are so bad like king of the hill where you don’t need to be in the hill just touch the hill and spawn trap lol and then the other one is even worst just whoever gets a few kill lead just camps and the game goes to time limit like 95 percent of the time.
I do not like having power ammo in trials or comp, I just want the W to depend on the skill not the kit for holding down heavy all game. Also get the friggin duo queues tf outta comp and trials, I always am expected to carry those jerks and they make the game laggy which makes it impossible to pull off my 1v2’s. STOP DUO QUEUING, even as an ascendant player I can’t carry and deal with the lag or invisible character models you jerks cause for me to deal with. Yes…. I’m unreasonably angry, but these duo’s are ruining my connection with the game in 3v3 modes and as a solo I just want to play and have people on my level also on my team. Duo queues on my team end up being adepts and against 3 ascendant. Sure, I’m ascendant but why I always get the garbage stack not clearing a 1.0? Got me dropping 2.3-7.3’s for kda some games and my duo can’t even win against their best player while I’m over other side trying to get my double kill on in a 1v2 💀
i agree with most of it but isnt suposed to be skill based matchmaking? like players of equal skill? what is the point of playing with lower skill then you? is easy but something fun is supposed to have a little of a challenge, like how long would you like to do a merch over and over again, is that fun for you? like in the outlaer on my team but when the game gets too easy is just boring.
Problem is that every game feels the same and I'm not allowed to try anything different because the game puts so much weight on me to perform or my team gots mercied. We can talk about sbmm in comp where it's supposed to be, but casual should be casual
@@2011manchu yeah but that is just casual for you, any other player under you would just get destoided, an less bungie makes a 6v6 with skill bases matchmaking and other without is unfair. If doesn't exist, the best players just destoi the experience or new or worse players and people will not try pvp anymore because they don't even have space to learn. I understand that at your level is more try hard but most players don't play at your level so is unfair for most to try to play against a smaller group of player because that small group doesn't have fun try harding against each other. And yes it may seem like just because is a smaller population is less likely to get outliers but you also have to think that the people who spend more time in d2 are the pros/try harder so is more likely to find one of then then a guy who goes homes from work and only has 1/2 hours to play because he has to take of his kids and wife or even a collage student who studied all day, this is the majority of the community. If there was 2 6v6 then people could choose but obligating people to play with you because you want to have fun is kinda selfish even though I understand that playing against the same people maybe annoying.
Ive personally really been enjoying trials, competitive, and all the crucible labs game modes. So much so, i recently started getting back into scrims. Doubles clash is one of my favorite modes that has come out in a while. My only issue with comp is getting modes like zone control on a map like citadel. I personally dont touch 6v6 because i just have never had a good experience with it. Rumble has kinda died also, its either AFK bots or you get a 10 kill streak and half the lobby leaves. But yeah, the sandbox itself isnt in a great state and the current meta is kinda mid, i still find i can basically use whatever weapon i want (aslong as it has viable stats) and outplay opponents. That to me is really all that matters
Just give CBMM back to the quickplay. Im done with against the teleported guys or non registering damage. It is ridiculous that bungie still try to make SBMM while the whole population of pvp is low. Its a quick pub game, not a competitive game, should not be sweaty almost every single game
nerf apotheosis and song of flame on pvp, seen a dude just spam bird and threadling for like 30 seconds, get some kills without seeing a single health bar, 3 opponents quit shortly after(or dc, idrk, been getting baboond randomly)
Hot take. Trails should continue to have no sbmm and add a specific card to allow anyone to get the weekly adepts. Loses don't matter but lets say you have to get 10-15 wins to get passage. Obviously you would get less rewards. Maybe just 1 adept drop and prism or core. You're adding a good amount of players to trails every weekend. The original cards would still be a incentive for players to go flawless by cutting the time in half and getting double or triple rewards. I find as a solo trials player I get someone on my team disconnecting within the first 2 rounds every 10 games or so. Half my games or more are being filled in against duos. Playing against a large amount of cheaters every weekend. Playing against player with more crucible kills on one of their guns than I have on my entire account. I get trials is the ultimate skill pvp game mode and that's why their are titles and stats to show how cracked you are. Limiting the pve players.. hell the average crucible player on getting the weekly adept weapon is going to kill trials in the long run. Especially if bungie doesnt shake things up in pvp soon. This meta sucks, hunter is clearly the strongest class in pvp by miles. The pvp player pool feels like it gets lower and lower each week. With no new major content and potentially no clear overhaul to the pvp system I would be surprised if trials has any player but top 5% crucible players at all. Hell half the reason casuals play trials at all is because of content creators streaming it 24/7 over the weekend. TLDR: theres almost no reason for the casual pve player or even pvp player to play trials. I think the trials playlist will die without any measures taken by bungie within a few months.
Hotter take: you should be able to earn adept Trials red borders and craft them. Sick of being a good PvPer, suffering through dogshit teammates and even worse metas, only to be rewarded with trash-tier adepts every time. I'm done with RNG and sick of not being rewarded for my suffering and time.
I dont know, I feel like trials could not be in a better place to serve the broader scope of the playerbase at large. I think what you are describing is already in the game known as passage of persistence, but I could be misunderstanding you. I get that cheaters can ruin the experience for sure, but the game shouldn't be balanced around a bad batch of apples. Hunter is the clear prismatic pick for PVP by far. Content creators stream trials every weekend because its the only pvp content people are interesting in watching and engaging with.
i think the card that you just need to get 7 wins (non consecutive) to get the adept weapon is the closest youre going to get without trials losing endgame status. it is an endgame mode after all, i dont see why it should cater to casuals.
smoke bomb is op. slow + blind + dot + radiant on prismatic + recharges on dodge + lets you also have a nade + instant activation + radar manipulation. Using it as a trap its okay, but using it as a panic uno reverse has turned it into a giant mess in pvp
Yes literally does everything. It needs a nerf. At least go back to how it was pre TFS or something.
How the hell does it slow, think about it, how fat and dense are those smoke particles to be able to slow
It's always been a problem it was just on a subclass with an ass super.
Hunters in general are OP. Dodge allowing you to instantly ignore melee and not needing to invest one point into Strength, on top of spawning an incredibly overpowered decoy, on top of slowing your enemies, on top of gaining a faster dodge when you slow someone, on top of the best melees in the game (smoke + threaded spike) on top of the most OP super ever to hit PvP (Storm's Edge - literally three Thundercrashes in one super lmao), on top of an unnecessarily buffed Swarm Grenade, on top of a spammable class ability is just absurdly oppressive to fight.
Hunters just have far too many OP abilities to crutch, completely shifting the flow of battle from a single button press.
@@literallynobody1515agreed and this is coming from a hunter main, I tried to play my warlock and it was far tougher cards vs when I used my hunter the dodge is too free and needs a major cool down, also clones shouldn’t show up on radar at all plus the dodge cooldown itself needs a nerf with all the changes going on now
The fact that the comp meta is to not revive teammates cause doing so means that they will revive without specials. How is that a fun gameplay loop.
Now that’s really bad.
It’s fun if actually good enough to get kills with your primary.
And doing so, causes extremely Long and boring Games@@agamerjourney9146
Based on this video, I can assume we’ve ALL experienced what I like to call, the Invisible Guardian.
Y’know, there’s always one or two people whose character doesn’t load in until the last 2 minutes of the match? Those people lol
happens to everyone bro its cause of the 12 player mission
Never had it so far
I really thought they were gonna add crates to the transmat system, just to help the team that's behind. The death streak is a good idea. I also really enjoy the transmat system since it actually encourages primary play, and adds risks to spending special
Its sad that, aside from the really blatant outliars, the sandbox is really enjoyable right now, but if I want to play it I have to deal with some of the most offensive matchmaking in all of gaming.
And I still fail to see why this decision was made, the current sbmm and lobby balancing effectively ruins the game experience for high skill players, and it means that 5 low skill players will randomly get a few games a day where they have no fighting chance to do anything but see average to above average players stomp them and have a sweat on their team complain that they shouldn't play pvp.
I get that the GOAL was protect low skill players from the 'sweats' but by only allowing them to get farmed while on those players team, you haven't done that at all. The only population of the game I feel like actively benefits from this system would be people in the top 20-30% of the skill curve, who'll almost always play games that are either fine (Matching skill when not at the highest skill spectrum means less sandbox outlier abuse) or they get to farm 5 new lights while hiding from a boogie man.
If you want to to really enjoy 6s, i've found that duo or trio queuing has been the only way to do so consistently, since I know that I'm not expected to win the game myself, and I have the leway to play for enjoyment rather than sweating pick apart the groups who run around without punishment.
Also feels bad when 99% of my pve friends literally just can't play pvp with me, otherwise their experience is completely ruined. God forbid high skill players want to relax and not sweat games with casual friends. They're so busy trying to thwart people from sweating out and stomping every game that they ruin the experience for everyone themselves. (Also lets not get things twisted, you can absolutely stack and sweat out of your mind in 6s, and never drop a game, nothing here stops that, it just means more players wanna do that bc the alternative is less fun)
Yeah, I've seen folks have to run alt accounts and play alot more lax to make sure they don't throw their more casual friends into the Skill Island Matchmaking, which makes me super sad to see.
I feel like pulses are WAY over tuned, head seeker is so unhealthy
Sbmm in Control is brutal if me and another guy on my team aren’t fragging out almost 80% of the time it’s a mercy or they are getting mercied. I just want to play a casual 6v6 mode with no sbmm so I can vibe and chill
I like to drink and just chill in control for hours on the weekend. I agree, my motor functions after 3 hrs are not good, just wanna chill
I think regarding the special ammo economy in quickplay and non-trials playlists, Bungie said they are reworking the Transmat system and what is there currently is just a temporary placeholder.
I see. Either way, I dont like the idea of people just earning limitless special ammo because they run at someone and play trades all game.
it's a place holder in terms of UI but will operate near identical to how it does now, the physically dropping ammo for only you on a kill is meant to be you just get the ammo immediately but they said this wasn't working for some reason. either way the system is awful, in quickplay its noticably bad but in comp when you're trying to win it's painful.
hit the nail on the head at 10:30. its absolutely insane that bungie actually promotes a system that thinks i'm supposed to be the hero out of my entire team and be able to singlehandedly 1v6 and win
Absolutely behooves me how we can't have just a 6v6 clash / control playlist and a 3v3 skirmish / zone control
Came across your channel in the destiny 2 twitch directory a few months ago. Your gameplay instantly captivated me. Just wanted to say as I’ve watched your content, I’ve come to really appreciate your intelligence and depth of knowledge.
100% agree on the transmat system for reasons you listed. Special should be special.
honestly i would like to see maybe one more playlist add sbmm. Right now we have only 1 outlier protection game mode and all the rest are open skill which bungie has specifically stated drives down the population of crucible. Im not asking for open skill to go away completely as i think it definitely serves a purpose and provides a place for higher skill players to go when they dont want to try hard or to get a better connection. But I do think having a single playlist specifically catered to sbmm that is not outlier protection (since that does very little from what i can tell anecdotally) could provide a place for new lights to go play with and against each other more frequently than they do now
Out of everything Kaseem said I only disagree with one thing (SBMM).and it’s not the fact that he’s wrong,Its the fact that it will never change a lot of these fps games constantly cater to the casual community i honestly can’t remember the last time the SBMM in this game was borderline bearable.And ironically when you stack in QP people back out and leave thus giving the same boring result🤷♂️
Absolutely nailed the comp issue with the brain rot blueberries that you get on the team. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Legitimately I could kill two by myself and leave one abso but these blueberries wouldn’t push up under any circumstance
It’s a vile experience, then I die and my 2 teammates let him rez both his dead teammates and get decimated
@@gitupmechavvy2569 every time bro smh
@@Awfully_good it’s just horrific bro, I’m sick of having 0.4s top 98% elos on my team in all modes the game expects me to carry in 6s and trials. Before sbmm was acknowledged I moaned about this on a D2 Reddit and got dragged for it saying there’s no sbmm etc. I refuse to believe it when 9/10 games I’m expected to carry 2 0.2 Timmy’s against 2 people with 816 and 568 flawlesses (literally had this the other day) some weird stuffs going on behind the scenes without a doubt, I’m platinum in comp currently because I don’t play a lot but I get the most horrendous teammates in plat games I really don’t understand. So disheartening playing pvp and being molested every game due to stuff out of my control. Yes I’m a good player at 2.5% elo but I can’t carry vegtables against a team full of no lifers
@@gitupmechavvy2569I know exactly what you mean because I got dragged to hell as well on Reddit when I brought this up 🤣
I’m always down to play if you’re down
Eclipse#3339
I was so disappointed and confused when I began to see them phasing out the special transmit system for crates again :(
The transmat bar is amazing, and the ammo crates just needs to be removed entirely. The only thing they should’ve considered was lowering the rate of return for shotguns and fusions individually from snipers imo. Great video, transmat is the way.
Also, you’re completely correct on the sbmm. Bungie sets good players up for insane multi-carries. I have 10s of screenshots where I have a 5+ efficiency at the top of the board, while my entire team is negative. It also seems like time played is a factor in addition to “skill.” How they calculate skill definitely needs to be revisited and should also be shared transparently.
@@alphamindtacticsthis, I said something about this in a destiny 2 sub and got downvoted into oblivion by 0.2 Timmy’s (before sbmm was introduced/acknowledged) The game expects me to carry 5 brainrot consumers in 6s and trials puts the 98% elo .4s on my team whilst the whole other 3 are 1kd-2kd+. It’s not a fun experience having to play carefully and baby my blueberries around… at this point I’m genuinely convinced there is some form of machine learning bot AI in my games smh
Cant believe checkmate was a thing.
Post TFS 6s is beyond chaotic. I genuinely believe this is the worst ability focused sandbox we have experienced in the span of 10 years. Even worse than Beyond Light stasis shitshow.
Sounds about right.
phenomenal vid lunarz you had all my pros and cons with pvp pointed out in the vid great work. Now lets hope bungie listens...
It feels like we’ve been saying special ammo systems and matchmaking are the problem for years now 😔
SBMM.. it’s in everything. Even Trials.
@@bannedmann4469skill base match making is not in trials.
Matchmaking has been broken for years, but the previous special ammo system was better. Back then each player had much more agency, now Destiny's crucible is a generic team-shooter deathball.
@@RicardoGarcia-rp9pw All fps shooters have team shooting. Yet that won’t guarantee you a win.
@@bannedmann4469 trials don’t have skill base matchmaking.
13:40 this right here. the whole idea of playing video games or any game should have some sort of reason or goal. to have fun, to make content, to feel good getting that one weapon roll or exotic, incentive. I struggle to find a reason to play a lot of the time. i miss that 2018 feeling of 6v6 clips with unique weapons or challenges...
9:35 this happens to me for momentum control. momentum... i don't play the entire day, get endless and hit two nighthawk seventh columns. next 10 games are balanced so poorly that the moment I leave the match, it's a mercy within two minutes. between 70-93% chances of the other team winning. to the point of watching how some play and legitimately wondering if they added NPC bot opponents into the game. its baffling to me.
I was wondering why going flawless gort easier after playing so much pvp. I totally forgot that 6v6 was sbmm. I guess that has lowkey made me a better player XD
abt your feelings on special ammo systems, have you used anything else that isnt a shotgun or sniper? maybe try the new special ammo sword, the caster frame is my favorite so far, mixed w telesto/ticuus/colony perk and it can multikill while also being fun to use
I dont like special weapons lol. I use shotguns because those are the ones I hate the least
As always your video is razor sharp on the problem of pvp and it's well thought out. I was really enjoying the ammo economy prior to the final shape. It was such a nice change of paste to use my primary not special simulator trade city of a pvp experience. I played trials at the begging of the final shape and the ammo meter was still there. I actually do agree that trials is the best pvp game mode for several reasons including the ammo economy. But when I played comp or IB it is absolutely back to being not fun. Just special ammo everywhere. I mean they spawn you with one shot and give you a second right infront of you like wtf is the point just give ppl 2 special shots and you are encouraged to just use special. The pvp experience becomes use special to get kills and then when you run out grap from ground or ammo boxes keep doing this until you die and you get more special when you spawn. The old system required you to know when to use your special and when not to. What primaries I can use and use to do so. Now it's just terrible.
I’m hearing the same story about the matchmaking and lobby balancing and in my matches, I’m constantly going up against the outliers and barely fighting for my life. I haven’t touched trials in a while so I might mess around with it. I don’t think Bungie should just let PvP go because they’ve stated that it’s a part of the game but they need to actually show up and stand on bidness
Absolute trash at the moment. Smaller maps, littered with prismatic spam hunters and unlimited shot gun ammo... gross.
7:20 to be fair though before the ability to focus rose and mercurial I didn't even play 3 matches of comp each week lol
Funny enough, comp is my go-to playlist for PvP trials whenever you aren't getting back to back to back files carries, and group matches against communicating teammates, but thats not always the case.
I think they need to go the defiant route and remove sbmm maybe add their own version of a welcome playlist if the want somewhere for new people to practice
agree with the special ammo. totally agree with everything mentioned!
Genuinely thought I was going insane. Started playing this game second week into May and I love it. I’m adept 1, top 0.1% in rumble top 0.8% in elimination, top 0.2% in clash and then 6% in trials. But when I play control I get piss slammed because I have 5 bots on my team. Genuinely don’t know what to do other than play in a stack
Very well put video hopefully someone at bungie listens in as this is pretty much the same feedback I’d give.
One 30 kill game in control and my next 7 games are a playoff series, it’s getting really old
One argument against forsaken era pvp: countdown on radiant cliffs ruined that map
I totally agree with this.
I also miss the transmat system
Very similar experience for me. I think they must use combat rating as mines fairly high (higher than it should be) and I feel that hero thing. If I don’t play hard meta it’s a mercy. As for lobby balance I feel that most in competitive, I had 8 straight losses, fight me, 2+ kd each game, just expected to carry more than I’m capable of. Control also my sweatiest lobbies
I guess however SBMM works someone falls on the unlucky side. My win rate is way under 50% now 😂
I think PvP was best before Into the Light. After that, the Crucible was flooded with the exact type of players SBMM was meant for.
Additionally, the Crucible weapons/ability tuning was best in Season of the Wish. Now it's raining Special Ammo to counter the people double- and triple-proc'ing abilities. Seriously?! That's what you call "hustling backwards".
Dude the ammo system was a fail we had it so good with transmat
I stopped caring about PvP at this point, there are 2 unshakable problems that will never get addressed. Lobby balancing sucks balls, but it's a necessary Band-Aid-Fix since the player base is almost always too low and/or split for normal matchmaking to work. People are usually arguing about SBMM, but for Destiny it's pointless, there are never enough people in your matchmaking pool to make a fair game anyway (and you just end up having the same people in your lobbies regardless of matchmaking type)
The second problem is PvP being the eternal fallback plan. When a new DLC/season releases, we get shiny new stuff, population (in PvE and PvP) is high, people are grinding or trying out new stuff and Bungie is happy. Hence, changes are not necessary.
But in the dry points, PvE alone could never keep the game alive, late starters and dedicated raiders etc. are not enough by a long shot. That's when PvP-quality is suddenly super important for player retention and we see the 'renewed focus' in action (just look at all the stuff leading up to Final Shape). But there is never any intention to make Destiny the perfect PvP-experience. It just needs to be enough to keep a core player base until the next big content drop.
I might be a bit too cynical, but I just don't see a point in investing my time any longer.
SBMM is not necessary, stop with that scrub mentality. SBMM is the biggest problem in the industry.
I think a big fix for comp and quick play is making the rewards better and a little easier to obtain. Even as a consistent and very devoted PvP player, playing my shitty comp games all to get a terrible roll on rose sucks. The reason why trials loot is so good is there are rarely bad perk options, and each weapon is competitive in the sandbox or unique. This cannot be said of the regular crucible weapons are really bad, and often don’t have competitive perks or stats. Ideally, the playlist weapons could be a little more “chase worthy” even for pve mains. I will consistently remind folks that PvP mains have to go into pve to get the best stuff, but the same cannot be said of pve mains. Point being, making the loot very good for PvP will bring more people into the playlist, and take some strain off of the current system to allow for improvements
Im not in disagreement with your statement concerning loot, but at the end of day, that's extrinsic motivation. The competitive gameplay experience needs to be fun firs. Sure, good loot helps pvp population, but as I stated the latter half of the video, the gameplay experience is not rewarding or fun to most people playing the game.
@@2011manchu that is very fair, and I 1000000% agree but that seems like the easiest fix for the time
Once again, Lunarz hits the nail on the head with every single point.
Trials fucked me today, I got matched with a duo of DORKS that just ran in and got farmed. Fed the whole game. Lost my flawless. Posting this here to vent.
same, i was trying to solo queue flawless bc i don’t have anyone added that enjoys pvp. lost my lightouse game (mercy was lost for same reason) bc people that don’t know how to play the game
I share your pain… but this is reality. You share the game with ppl of many skills and capabilities. This is the system you have to work with unfortunately. Either stack up, clutch up or play something else.
@@josephcrotty9553 i usually do but i can’t carry EVERY game, especially against two competent players (1.6+) and my 90th percentile teammates. i’ve gone flawless three times this weekend with multiple wins on a flawless card, just horrid luck still lmao
@@afri2n sometimes your luck just does run out… but any period of extended playtime in any playlist will eventually see you in lopsided matches simply due to the probability of it. It’s not every match though, even though the times you are outmatched feels horrible. Blueberries (like myself) are out there, and if we weren’t…. You would not have any range of skills. If a playlist is completely devoid of lower skill players, you would in effect have sbmm. No one wants that lol
Comp has heavy every few minutes... Special ammo economy is still not in a good state, but heavy spam is something else entirely.
Ya if comp went back to the forsaken days it would be a lot more enjoyable
3v3 on big maps is really boring combined with the horrible game modes
Skill base matchmaking is terrible because most player base sucks in PvP. Bungie basically confirmed this when change control back SBMM. As biggest reason was there was to much skill gap between majority of pl😮ayers.
All of the green blocks on the screen just catch my eye so much its annyoing.
Yeah idk, everyone praised bungie when they dropped the transmat system and then they almost immediately moved away from it. It’s pretty frustrating
whatever happened to the no abilities gamemode? i loved it alot while it was around
Winning the game is cool but the true dub is preserveing ur K.D i learned that now thats something your in control of
Lobby balancing is at its worst in doubles clash. 9 times out of 10 I'll get paired with the new light and facing a stacked team. Kind of a fun challenge to 1v2 though ig
can someone explain to me why people think shotguns are balanced, they're used by 90% of the players in each lobby and I almost feel like I'm throwing if I'm not running one. Is this not op by definition?
Shotguns are popular because it's a lot harder to "Waste" in the current ammo economy. Shotty has always been favored because of barrier to entry as well
Everyone 2 bursting me with red death and it feeling like it takes the full fucking mag to kill with in my hands is my average crucible game
Net code and latency is degrading.
At this point I just play the multiplayer for Halo 2/Halo 3 through MCC if I want a "Bungie" pvp game. I know 343 made it but still. New stuff in Destiny pvp just doesn't work for me anymore. At least those old Halo games had balance, good maps, actual power weapons on the map to contest to like the rocket launcher or the energy sword, instead of just ammo for everyone's whatever weapon. No bringing op weapons from raids/trials. Just no stupid mmo-like variables...was just a simple pvp arena shooter.
i agree with everything but the special ammo system. i cant stand dying to somebody because they have special and i dont. maybe i had to use a shotgun shot secure a round in trials. with the special ammo meter system im now at disadvantage, im at 0 ammo, while the enemy has a shot left.
it feels like dying to heavy.
spawning in with 1 shot provides even playgrounds at every round. it’s already annoying enough dying to something random that you cant control, but adding this randomness to specials makes it even worse.
im willing to tolerate some of the special weapon jousting for even playgrounds. id also be ok with specials moving into the heavy slot, but that will never ever happen again
pvp is a mess atm.
The transmat bar isn’t gone for good. They said iterating on the bar system was difficult because of technical issues using it as it wasn’t originally intended for this use. They are going to rebuild the meter and reimplement it into the 1-1-1 system.
I will take that with a grain of salt because Bungie has a history of stating that they are going to take something out of the game to 'improve" it only for it to either never return or they do bring it back and its no different then when it was taken away.
the point at the end on pvp not feeling rewarding, the answer is the same it's been for years. you're not rewarded for improving at the game at all, games don't get easier, you don't put up bigger numbers unless on an extreme end, and the sandbox generally while yes there are more options, if you're against a good hard meta player ur gonna struggle. only recently have we entered this narrative of players look for different rewards, which yes as a loot end goal is true but in the context of d2's pvp the reward should be identical to every other pvp game on the planet. get better = kill more / bigger rank number. and because of the state of the afformentioned points (not even considering the comp system) this just isn't the case.
also was kind of mentioned with prismatic hunter but we're literally in a total state of you don't need to master a subclass or certain playstyle, you can literally just pick the most op aspect from all kits available. literally can't imagine playing any hunter class other than prismatic.
Revert behemoth slide and ill be happy
Like I definitely don’t think this is the worst state crucible had been in but it’s definitely worse than it was right before TFS launch.
SBMM needs to fucking go. Like you just said, the fact that Trials is the easier/more relax playlist is insane. Control is a shit hole and you pretty much need to play with meta weapons in order to have an okay time, not a good one. Comp is a fucking joke with SBMM on it as well. Don't get me started with special ammo... God.
Yes
Couldn’t agree more
i agree
Womp womp
PVP is so trash in Destiny 2, I went back to playing Rainbow Six Siege. At least I know if I get killed it's because of me and not some BS that seems to happen way too often in D2 PVP.
Personally, I would rather a special ammo system that rewards primary kills, but not from damage, from kills. Say I take out 2 guardians with a primary, I should get a single bullet dropped right into my special weapons mag so I do not need to put on some dumb holster mod.
Sure, snowball effect 🤷♂️ as in bad players get snowballed and turn their now snowflaked feelings into a Reddit post that bungie listens to for some odd reason instead of dropping in-game voting systems or polls that’s progress can monitored by the player base until a final vote date is reached
Imagine how many players would vote to get AE removed 😂
Prismatic hunter literally broke pvp and trials, I don’t get it why bungie have to make hunters broken each expansion..are they catering to the masses or something?
Nah, it was warlocks then hunters then titans then hunters. Time for warlocks to get grapple and Icarus on prismatic to become the movement kings.
I wish comp was just round based like trials and rotate on all the trials maps that they use. The game modes right now are so bad like king of the hill where you don’t need to be in the hill just touch the hill and spawn trap lol and then the other one is even worst just whoever gets a few kill lead just camps and the game goes to time limit like 95 percent of the time.
I do not like having power ammo in trials or comp, I just want the W to depend on the skill not the kit for holding down heavy all game.
Also get the friggin duo queues tf outta comp and trials, I always am expected to carry those jerks and they make the game laggy which makes it impossible to pull off my 1v2’s. STOP DUO QUEUING, even as an ascendant player I can’t carry and deal with the lag or invisible character models you jerks cause for me to deal with. Yes…. I’m unreasonably angry, but these duo’s are ruining my connection with the game in 3v3 modes and as a solo I just want to play and have people on my level also on my team. Duo queues on my team end up being adepts and against 3 ascendant. Sure, I’m ascendant but why I always get the garbage stack not clearing a 1.0? Got me dropping 2.3-7.3’s for kda some games and my duo can’t even win against their best player while I’m over other side trying to get my double kill on in a 1v2 💀
3:30 !!!!!
i agree with most of it but isnt suposed to be skill based matchmaking? like players of equal skill? what is the point of playing with lower skill then you? is easy but something fun is supposed to have a little of a challenge, like how long would you like to do a merch over and over again, is that fun for you? like in the outlaer on my team but when the game gets too easy is just boring.
Problem is that every game feels the same and I'm not allowed to try anything different because the game puts so much weight on me to perform or my team gots mercied. We can talk about sbmm in comp where it's supposed to be, but casual should be casual
@@2011manchu yeah but that is just casual for you, any other player under you would just get destoided, an less bungie makes a 6v6 with skill bases matchmaking and other without is unfair. If doesn't exist, the best players just destoi the experience or new or worse players and people will not try pvp anymore because they don't even have space to learn. I understand that at your level is more try hard but most players don't play at your level so is unfair for most to try to play against a smaller group of player because that small group doesn't have fun try harding against each other. And yes it may seem like just because is a smaller population is less likely to get outliers but you also have to think that the people who spend more time in d2 are the pros/try harder so is more likely to find one of then then a guy who goes homes from work and only has 1/2 hours to play because he has to take of his kids and wife or even a collage student who studied all day, this is the majority of the community. If there was 2 6v6 then people could choose but obligating people to play with you because you want to have fun is kinda selfish even though I understand that playing against the same people maybe annoying.
Ive personally really been enjoying trials, competitive, and all the crucible labs game modes. So much so, i recently started getting back into scrims. Doubles clash is one of my favorite modes that has come out in a while. My only issue with comp is getting modes like zone control on a map like citadel. I personally dont touch 6v6 because i just have never had a good experience with it. Rumble has kinda died also, its either AFK bots or you get a 10 kill streak and half the lobby leaves. But yeah, the sandbox itself isnt in a great state and the current meta is kinda mid, i still find i can basically use whatever weapon i want (aslong as it has viable stats) and outplay opponents. That to me is really all that matters
Just give CBMM back to the quickplay. Im done with against the teleported guys or non registering damage. It is ridiculous that bungie still try to make SBMM while the whole population of pvp is low. Its a quick pub game, not a competitive game, should not be sweaty almost every single game
Hunters
Bro spent the whole time whining while using 2 burst pulse rifles
@@iestynnicholls3945 and you watched the entire thing while giving extra engagement, life is good.
nerf apotheosis and song of flame on pvp, seen a dude just spam bird and threadling for like 30 seconds, get some kills without seeing a single health bar, 3 opponents quit shortly after(or dc, idrk, been getting baboond randomly)
Hot take. Trails should continue to have no sbmm and add a specific card to allow anyone to get the weekly adepts. Loses don't matter but lets say you have to get 10-15 wins to get passage. Obviously you would get less rewards. Maybe just 1 adept drop and prism or core. You're adding a good amount of players to trails every weekend. The original cards would still be a incentive for players to go flawless by cutting the time in half and getting double or triple rewards. I find as a solo trials player I get someone on my team disconnecting within the first 2 rounds every 10 games or so. Half my games or more are being filled in against duos. Playing against a large amount of cheaters every weekend. Playing against player with more crucible kills on one of their guns than I have on my entire account. I get trials is the ultimate skill pvp game mode and that's why their are titles and stats to show how cracked you are. Limiting the pve players.. hell the average crucible player on getting the weekly adept weapon is going to kill trials in the long run. Especially if bungie doesnt shake things up in pvp soon. This meta sucks, hunter is clearly the strongest class in pvp by miles. The pvp player pool feels like it gets lower and lower each week. With no new major content and potentially no clear overhaul to the pvp system I would be surprised if trials has any player but top 5% crucible players at all. Hell half the reason casuals play trials at all is because of content creators streaming it 24/7 over the weekend.
TLDR: theres almost no reason for the casual pve player or even pvp player to play trials. I think the trials playlist will die without any measures taken by bungie within a few months.
Hotter take: you should be able to earn adept Trials red borders and craft them. Sick of being a good PvPer, suffering through dogshit teammates and even worse metas, only to be rewarded with trash-tier adepts every time. I'm done with RNG and sick of not being rewarded for my suffering and time.
I dont know, I feel like trials could not be in a better place to serve the broader scope of the playerbase at large. I think what you are describing is already in the game known as passage of persistence, but I could be misunderstanding you. I get that cheaters can ruin the experience for sure, but the game shouldn't be balanced around a bad batch of apples. Hunter is the clear prismatic pick for PVP by far. Content creators stream trials every weekend because its the only pvp content people are interesting in watching and engaging with.
i think the card that you just need to get 7 wins (non consecutive) to get the adept weapon is the closest youre going to get without trials losing endgame status. it is an endgame mode after all, i dont see why it should cater to casuals.
@@literallynobody1515you can farm adept weapons off the card you went flawless on. only took me a few games to get a godroll
First 🫶🏻🔥
final shape is garbage