Nature inspired designs often work really well. I certainly think that it is a great place to start. Love the video! Keep doing what you are doing Rob.
There was a fair bit of study by two Americans and a Canadian on the tubercles on the leading edge of the Humpback whales' fins which was applied to blades of wind turbines. Their company is Whalepower Corporation.
I have a question about the theory, however. If they move through the air 20% easier, would that be BAD for catching wind, and therefore BAD for wind turbines? What do you think?
@@johnbarry8185 - theoretically good for the first row of turbines, bad for subsequent rows - hence the growth in mega-super offshore rotors.. (a 20% reduction in drag for the same lift means that the same area of blade ban extract more energy from the wind - where the energy flows, meaning that there is less residual energy in the downstream airflow (greater effect on the wind wind) - follow the streamlines Note that in the task of "transporting whales" higher efficiency means they need less energy to do a migration (can survive the lean times), in engineering (transport) we quickly figure out how to transport more stuff with the same energy, or get the same stuff there quicker (time or mass, pick one) - without costing any more - energy and shipping modes. For nature more is less, for humanity more is - moar-rer- er haven't reached steady state "enough" - just yet.. (sic, jk)
The seed is optimised for centre of rotation inside the seed head, so you might get better results by cutting off the blade where it meets the head, rather than by adding that stalk.
This was also my first thought when I watched the video. Maybe you could stack them in front of each other at the center of rotation. You could even do multiple sets in different scaling as the energy absorbtion is worse near the center and therefore more "remaining energy" should be in the wind after the first set of blades. Using a second set of smaller blades behind the first set could compensate that...
The seed is the centre of axis of rotation. The stalk is a stupid idea all propellers should be two bladed fused together, balanced and smooth surface, light weight and durable.
Here in the season when maple trees are dropping their seed, one could easily get buckets full of seed. You could take them to a tall building and drop them, someone below could net the ones that took the longest getting down and those would be the ones to use. With a variable pitch would also make it easier to optimize.
Hi Rob i do enjoy dropping in on your endless journey of scientific and engineering exploration. Please excuse the nerdiness of the next thought but evolved natural designs are often super specific and the seed pod has evolved to have a specific centre of rotation. The turbine assembly mounts the printed "blades" so their Joint centre of rotation differs from the seed freefall centre of rotation so It might be interesting to see if there is an efficiency peak at the seeds natural point of rotation. Maybe it will maybe it wont, just a thought. Anyway, more strength to your elbow, stay fascinated and keep experimenting.
Love all of your turbine experiments and how quickly you get through them! I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this but have you tried making a simple test setup with one of your generators and a consistent wind source to make quick and easy comparisons between their performance? It feels like it wouldn't be that tricky to get some hardish data
I'm seeing a lot of comments about other concepts for nature inspired wind turbine technology. If only the same effort was put into conserving nature itself, so that future humanity can continue to be inspired. We are living in the period of the most devastating extinction of species diversity in history
Robert holding his shaft in the parking lot has become a frequent occurrence in that business park. He must be well known there, or at least well talked about lol.
Oh wow, thanks Robert for making it.i was messing around last year with them I went to see leanordo divenchy pictures once.he had one with the seeds for a helicopter.🧡🌍👍🕊️🛩️
Looking forward to a back to back comparison with the contemporary blade design. Due to the nonlinearity of drag I imagine they'd both operate at different RPM's for maximum efficiency. Hope you get round to trying this out. Cheers for the fun videos
As with some other wind turbine models presented (the folding version), the blades "appear to be" assembled back to front - the configuration with this type of blade (as built/demonstrated) is most suited to a directional (HAWT) - with the wind from the back (ie, a downwind turbine) - it still works "bass-ackwards" but doesn't cut in as early. The thing with all of these designs is to decide early on what type of tip speed ratio is desired - and work with the relative lift distribution from root to tip... (a steady state windtunnel (nor the operation of a birds wing) doesn't exactly correlate with the same performance as is experienced by turbines - unless the whole model is located within the boundary layer of the tunnel. It must be noted that a propeller producing thrust and a turbine producing torque are optimised exactly in reverse order (yhey noth rotate but the high and low pressure sides are reversed in both regimes (one is being driven by the wind the other is "driving the wind) , so a propeller which also generates isn't the same as a turbine which may occasionally produce lift (ie, self lofting rigid kites) - they each may be used for the other task, but will not do it quite as well as an "optimal" design. (Yess, it is true that if dealing with buffeting, rotor-ing air at low levels and downwind of trees and buildings (obstructions, including elevated terrain) - the "optimisation quickly disappears. Ducting - nozzles and diffusers can redirect and recover energy which may otherwise be lost in the matrix - too or by the matrix??.)
Interesting idea! I’m guessing that samara seed pods evolved to produce lateral movement in addition to spinning. If so, might a samara inspired blade produce undesirable stress at joint where it connects to hub? How would one test for such potential problems?
I repeat, like the windmill in Iran four blades is the best!! And the reason is we can make it stiffer and stronger cheap! And as you show us more wings better torque! And I know your idea about getting people think for them selfs. So I must say! I just love this film! /Mikael PS. Put an omniball in top and bottom of a pipe! and a new electrical Jet-stream motor is done! DS.
Might letting the blade pitch "float" make the rotation self-regulating? A single seed falls nearly at the same speed no matter what the wind speed. Cross winds carry it farther from the parent, but rotation and descent rate don't seem to vary. Perhaps if the samara turbine blades could feather on the hub with a constraint, like a coil spring,, then it would be less sensitive to axis pitch or to wind direction.
It would be interesting to see how the different mounting angles affect it. Maybe they work better when they're mounted flatter? Using nature as inspiration just makes sense. It's been iterating for a good while now to get as good as it is.
Look forward to seeing a comparison between these and the more regular blades of similar size, I'd think similar surface area would be the best metric. I suspect these would be better in low wind speeds and the traditional ones in stronger winds, that's just a feeling though.
The test for it's similarity to the seed-pod would be to drop the handle with the blades horizontal. I think the seeds need to have the air moving as it falls in order to rotate, like an auto-rotating helicopter. in the usual wind-turbine orientation it looks to be a great design, as most naturally evolved stuff seems to be. Talking of which, have you seen anything about "Tubercle Technology", where the nobbly bits (the scientific name for tubercles lol) on a humpback whale's fins were examined to see if they helped it with it's remarkable agility in the water, and they were found to channel the flow over the fin in such a way as to keep the stream attached for longer, generating extra lift, but, astoundingly, reducing drag at the same time. Needless to say the buggers have slapped patents on their use for aircraft wings and turbine blades, but the principle is fascinating!
Excellent video as always, love the concept of getting ideas from nature. Just a thought from watching maple seeds fall, that they spin around the end ball/ lobe. Just wondering if that end was cut off and only the remaining section was added on if it would improve the spin rate?
Great idea mate! Have you thought about the shape of the seed while still green? Not sure if it would have any impact on the efficacy, but who knows. Toss it in the air with a strong cup of tea at hand and have at it! Cheers.
Yet another fascinating video - thanks very much. Do you think that using PTFE washers would have much of an impact on reducing friction and improving performance?
Hi Robert Just found your channel and loving your content, just a question about the Omni turbine, what do you think if the model was scaled up from the thingyverse size to accommodate bigger magnets? Would it produce higher voltage or amps? I am in the process of converting a 9 meter bus to a motorhome and was thinking this could be a good option for the not so sunny days to compliment the solar. Your opinion would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel New Zealand
You kind of beat me to it Rob lol I was watching them fall yesterday and wondered how they would fare. There is a lot of variation between each 'wing' from any given tree. The one you scanned and printed seemed very stunted but I've found the ones that travel furthest from the tree tend to have a very wide flat tail feather type shape to the end. A possible hint to an improvement? Also they've evolved to spin around the axis of the seed so I'm assuming the distance from the tip to the centre is important
Hi Robert, Isn't this design, like a maple seed, designed to work on drag to self power?🤔 The wings become the wind vane if you're oriented as a "pusher" configuration with the nacelle at the front in a bullet shape and a 2nd set of blades offset at 60⁰
@@ThinkingandTinkering it would be interesting what flow mechanics software tools and a small vapor chamber wind tunnel to show how those vorticies react at lower speeds and higher speeds 🤔. I remember working with similar tools in university and the ideal of a physical proof came up to validate what we thought we saw in the 90's😉👍 Absolutely love the content Sir! You're making a legacy 💞
I had that same idea about those maple seeds several months or a year ago, didn't have 3D printer (nor that scanner) to make one still dont. So I couldn't fabricate one.
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 ours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when thingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
I love the inspiration from nature! I wonder if there is a generative AI tool for aerodynamic surfaces. I seem to remember when I was learning to build turbines that the reasoning behind the blade being narrower at the tip was because it would be moving faster than the center so the tips should have less drag. If speed is not your goal though I think maximum area would be more important for torque.
To your and @dwiz121 ''s post: the comparison would be hard to summarize. The torque may be what we really need from a turbine more than rotating speed. Why? Do you know how hard it is to harvest energy from a wt generator? Having a constant speed may solve a lot od problems. Torque would be the factor of power.
Another fantastic video. I've often wondered why turbine blades were not this way around, I always put it down to the strength of the material at the root of the blade, with it having to carry such a large load at the tip of the blade when rotating. It would be great to see this in a twin blade configuration on your Axial flux turbine, to see if it would out perform the Ingenuity blades in low wind speeds. Just what we need in the U.K. On the Axial flux turbine. If the blade sets on either side of the turbine were different lengths, would that have the affect of turning the blades in to the oncoming wind??? I'm thinking more drag on the longer set. Obviously the performance would be limited to the maximum of the shorter set. Keep up the great work.
Rob, this would be a good place to use 'tubercles'. They are the bumps on the fins of some wales, and have been proven to be 20% more efficient when used on blades.
Come up with a cheap, efficient version of this that solves the common man's energy crisis, and you could end up being the world's most famous Good Samaratin.💁
Robert, Hope all is well with you, family , friends, and neighbors there in the Canterbury- Kent County area of England with the passing of the major storm Ciaran with 100+MPH / 165+KPH winds creating 1.2 million without power. Here in the States East Coast we call those types of storms "Nor'easters". I call them unwelcome
Hi Rob, great idea, meaning I've been wondering the same with our finnish maple seeds with are higly similar in form. 😁 Can we get a comparison test of this against the Ingenuity turbine from NASA in video 2072? Does NASA beat nature? 🤔
It also could be possible to build an open source printer like the hengprinter to print these as big as you want using the petbot plastic filament maker to make it for free using found bottles... there's really no excuse thay someone couldn't make this cheaply
@@ThinkingandTinkering good point, was thinking abstractly forgot to take Conservation of Energy into account, So only Modifications that might increase the air flow (Like a Fairing) would help ( actually a Fairing would allow for testing both styles as would allow for measurements before and after the Air travels through it) although it might favor the Seed style as the blades would be getting increased air at tips which have greater surface area ( or am i out to lunch today ) LoL
I appreciate your content, Robert. Your channel stands out as a testament to the depth and variety of TH-cam beyond mere entertainment. However, one of your assertions has left me perplexed: the idea that a blade slicing through the air is identical to air flowing over a stationary blade or wing. This concept seems counterintuitive considering the principle of momentum. For instance, the impact of moving marbles on a stationary pen differs from the effect when the pen is thrust through stationary marbles. It seems logical to extend this analogy to air movement, suggesting a distinction between a sail cutting through the air and air streaming around a sail. Care to elaborate? What am I misunderstanding?
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
Funny that you said that. It would stand to reason, that someone swinging a sword with tubercles would be able to swing it faster and easier, than a regular sword. Sword with tubercles... Patent? :-)
Hi Robert, Maybe test performance boost by modifying both the leading, and trailing edge skin textures of the sycamore samara seed. To the leading edge add tubercle bumps copied from humpback whale's fin leading edge. To the trailing edge add the owl's wing trailing comb texture. All surface texture changes are hoped to reduce noise, and create more lift with reduced turbulence experienced by the next in line rotating / trailing blade cutting through a much less disturbed air molecule fluid stream. Thank You Robert for being you….intelligent, perceptive, intuitive, genuine, passionate, humble, fun, and thought provoking ! Enjoy each Day. Please send a "Hello" to Luke coming from here to there from across the pond. Robert, you are most worthy of the "The Global Teacher Prize".
@ThinkingandTinkering Robert...Thank You for this reply. I saw the re-test. I also see about a 20% rotation performance improvement. Brilliant..... & a most astonishing result to watch. I said "well... would you look at that" Nice work Mate ! : ) Thank you so much for the efforts to test again. All ao worth it.
The seeds are counterweights. If there are three blades, leave them out. How about a single blade? Let the counterweight do its job. You'll get naturally designed single-blade efficiency. Or so the hypothesis goes. I'd stick with three blades since I'm not a single-blade fan. 😁
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 ours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
no it isn't - the seed is the pivot point and center of gravity when it is by itself - in this structure the center of gravity and pivot point is in the middle of the cone
Rob, I think he is saying that you should move the blades towards the cone, a little more, since, on the seedpod, the pivot point is not at the end of the seed, but in just a little bit.@@ThinkingandTinkering
Nature inspired designs often work really well. I certainly think that it is a great place to start. Love the video! Keep doing what you are doing Rob.
There was a fair bit of study by two Americans and a Canadian on the tubercles on the leading edge of the Humpback whales' fins which was applied to blades of wind turbines. Their company is Whalepower Corporation.
I don't know if they are fake or not but gold artifacts that look like aircraft had the same on their wings.
This what I was trying to explain.
I have a question about the theory, however. If they move through the air 20% easier, would that be BAD for catching wind, and therefore BAD for wind turbines? What do you think?
Whale fin like hydrofoils have been tried on America’s cup racing yachts.
@@johnbarry8185 - theoretically good for the first row of turbines, bad for subsequent rows - hence the growth in mega-super offshore rotors.. (a 20% reduction in drag for the same lift means that the same area of blade ban extract more energy from the wind - where the energy flows, meaning that there is less residual energy in the downstream airflow (greater effect on the wind wind) - follow the streamlines
Note that in the task of "transporting whales" higher efficiency means they need less energy to do a migration (can survive the lean times), in engineering (transport) we quickly figure out how to transport more stuff with the same energy, or get the same stuff there quicker (time or mass, pick one) - without costing any more - energy and shipping modes. For nature more is less, for humanity more is - moar-rer- er haven't reached steady state "enough" - just yet.. (sic, jk)
The seed is optimised for centre of rotation inside the seed head, so you might get better results by cutting off the blade where it meets the head, rather than by adding that stalk.
Good idea...
This was also my first thought when I watched the video. Maybe you could stack them in front of each other at the center of rotation. You could even do multiple sets in different scaling as the energy absorbtion is worse near the center and therefore more "remaining energy" should be in the wind after the first set of blades. Using a second set of smaller blades behind the first set could compensate that...
Agree. Using multiple blades is also deviating from the original. Would be cool with just one blade. 😎
The seed is the centre of axis of rotation. The stalk is a stupid idea all propellers should be two bladed fused together, balanced and smooth surface, light weight and durable.
Here in the season when maple trees are dropping their seed, one could easily get buckets full of seed. You could take them to a tall building and drop them, someone below could net the ones that took the longest getting down and those would be the ones to use. With a variable pitch would also make it easier to optimize.
I could see that.. In a Stairwell so as to avoid Crosswinds and other variables
Hi Rob i do enjoy dropping in on your endless journey of scientific and engineering exploration. Please excuse the nerdiness of the next thought but evolved natural designs are often super specific and the seed pod has evolved to have a specific centre of rotation. The turbine assembly mounts the printed "blades" so their Joint centre of rotation differs from the seed freefall centre of rotation so It might be interesting to see if there is an efficiency peak at the seeds natural point of rotation. Maybe it will maybe it wont, just a thought. Anyway, more strength to your elbow, stay fascinated and keep experimenting.
Your wind turbine is out of this world
I absolutely love this channel. Thank you Dr. Smith. Remember, the center of spin on these is not where you placed it.
Love all of your turbine experiments and how quickly you get through them! I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this but have you tried making a simple test setup with one of your generators and a consistent wind source to make quick and easy comparisons between their performance? It feels like it wouldn't be that tricky to get some hardish data
You can call it the god prop design
I've just been researching tubercles for propellers over the last few weeks! Very interesting stuff, nature is a great engineer.
Cool. Like the 'thicker more' pun too.
Thanks!
wow cheers mate i really appreciate that - very cool!
I'm seeing a lot of comments about other concepts for nature inspired wind turbine technology. If only the same effort was put into conserving nature itself, so that future humanity can continue to be inspired. We are living in the period of the most devastating extinction of species diversity in history
Robert holding his shaft in the parking lot has become a frequent occurrence in that business park. He must be well known there, or at least well talked about lol.
The shaft, also a movie.
Oh wow, thanks Robert for making it.i was messing around last year with them I went to see leanordo divenchy pictures once.he had one with the seeds for a helicopter.🧡🌍👍🕊️🛩️
Looking forward to a back to back comparison with the contemporary blade design. Due to the nonlinearity of drag I imagine they'd both operate at different RPM's for maximum efficiency. Hope you get round to trying this out.
Cheers for the fun videos
Asking nature, is always beneficial! Francis Bacon knew some shtuff! Lol!
Nature as a Teacher : Victor Schauburger
As with some other wind turbine models presented (the folding version), the blades "appear to be" assembled back to front - the configuration with this type of blade (as built/demonstrated) is most suited to a directional (HAWT) - with the wind from the back (ie, a downwind turbine) - it still works "bass-ackwards" but doesn't cut in as early.
The thing with all of these designs is to decide early on what type of tip speed ratio is desired - and work with the relative lift distribution from root to tip... (a steady state windtunnel (nor the operation of a birds wing) doesn't exactly correlate with the same performance as is experienced by turbines - unless the whole model is located within the boundary layer of the tunnel.
It must be noted that a propeller producing thrust and a turbine producing torque are optimised exactly in reverse order (yhey noth rotate but the high and low pressure sides are reversed in both regimes (one is being driven by the wind the other is "driving the wind) , so a propeller which also generates isn't the same as a turbine which may occasionally produce lift (ie, self lofting rigid kites) - they each may be used for the other task, but will not do it quite as well as an "optimal" design. (Yess, it is true that if dealing with buffeting, rotor-ing air at low levels and downwind of trees and buildings (obstructions, including elevated terrain) - the "optimisation quickly disappears. Ducting - nozzles and diffusers can redirect and recover energy which may otherwise be lost in the matrix - too or by the matrix??.)
Reynolds numbers would explain the difference between a bird, a seed and a whale fin.
Interesting idea!
I’m guessing that samara seed pods evolved to produce lateral movement in addition to spinning.
If so, might a samara inspired blade produce undesirable stress at joint where it connects to hub? How would one test for such potential problems?
Nice organic design, looks like it may perform well, looks great!
I repeat, like the windmill in Iran four blades is the best!! And the reason is we can make it stiffer and stronger cheap! And as you show us more wings better torque! And I know your idea about getting people think for them selfs. So I must say! I just love this film! /Mikael PS. Put an omniball in top and bottom of a pipe! and a new electrical Jet-stream motor is done! DS.
Cracking bit of biomimetic design there Rob, looking forward to the follow-ups!
Great video as per usual!! I wonder if the blades would be more efficient if they were at a flatter angle like the falling seed?
Might letting the blade pitch "float" make the rotation self-regulating? A single seed falls nearly at the same speed no matter what the wind speed. Cross winds carry it farther from the parent, but rotation and descent rate don't seem to vary. Perhaps if the samara turbine blades could feather on the hub with a constraint, like a coil spring,, then it would be less sensitive to axis pitch or to wind direction.
It would be interesting to see how the different mounting angles affect it. Maybe they work better when they're mounted flatter? Using nature as inspiration just makes sense. It's been iterating for a good while now to get as good as it is.
Look forward to seeing a comparison between these and the more regular blades of similar size, I'd think similar surface area would be the best metric. I suspect these would be better in low wind speeds and the traditional ones in stronger winds, that's just a feeling though.
Why stick with three blades too, five or contra rotating six.
i have that feeling to mate!
The test for it's similarity to the seed-pod would be to drop the handle with the blades horizontal. I think the seeds need to have the air moving as it falls in order to rotate, like an auto-rotating helicopter. in the usual wind-turbine orientation it looks to be a great design, as most naturally evolved stuff seems to be. Talking of which, have you seen anything about "Tubercle Technology", where the nobbly bits (the scientific name for tubercles lol) on a humpback whale's fins were examined to see if they helped it with it's remarkable agility in the water, and they were found to channel the flow over the fin in such a way as to keep the stream attached for longer, generating extra lift, but, astoundingly, reducing drag at the same time. Needless to say the buggers have slapped patents on their use for aircraft wings and turbine blades, but the principle is fascinating!
I do wonder if a softer, more nature inspired form of turbine, might reduce the reluctance to community scale installations.
Three bladed configuration was developed in the 1930's by Jacobs. Rural electrification.
Excellent video as always, love the concept of getting ideas from nature. Just a thought from watching maple seeds fall, that they spin around the end ball/ lobe. Just wondering if that end was cut off and only the remaining section was added on if it would improve the spin rate?
Great idea mate! Have you thought about the shape of the seed while still green? Not sure if it would have any impact on the efficacy, but who knows. Toss it in the air with a strong cup of tea at hand and have at it! Cheers.
Yet another fascinating video - thanks very much. Do you think that using PTFE washers would have much of an impact on reducing friction and improving performance?
the washer presses against the inner race of the bearing and the outer race is left free - not sure PTFE would do much tbh
I wonder if copyright laws like those for audio sampling will come to pass for 3D scanning / sampling ?
Interesting like most of your videos. In south Oklahoma to my knowledge I don’t have access to a CNC or 3D printing
Have you seen the wind solar tree?
Hi Robert
Just found your channel and loving your content, just a question about the Omni turbine, what do you think if the model was scaled up from the thingyverse size to accommodate bigger magnets? Would it produce higher voltage or amps? I am in the process of converting a 9 meter bus to a motorhome and was thinking this could be a good option for the not so sunny days to compliment the solar. Your opinion would be appreciated.
Thanks Daniel
New Zealand
You kind of beat me to it Rob lol I was watching them fall yesterday and wondered how they would fare. There is a lot of variation between each 'wing' from any given tree. The one you scanned and printed seemed very stunted but I've found the ones that travel furthest from the tree tend to have a very wide flat tail feather type shape to the end. A possible hint to an improvement? Also they've evolved to spin around the axis of the seed so I'm assuming the distance from the tip to the centre is important
Very nice.
I wonder how it compares in efficiency against a standard Dutch style turbine.
Hi Robert,
Isn't this design, like a maple seed, designed to work on drag to self power?🤔
The wings become the wind vane if you're oriented as a "pusher" configuration with the nacelle at the front in a bullet shape and a 2nd set of blades offset at 60⁰
as they rotate they produce little vortexes which create lift - or so i believe
@@ThinkingandTinkering it would be interesting what flow mechanics software tools and a small vapor chamber wind tunnel to show how those vorticies react at lower speeds and higher speeds 🤔.
I remember working with similar tools in university and the ideal of a physical proof came up to validate what we thought we saw in the 90's😉👍
Absolutely love the content Sir!
You're making a legacy 💞
I had that same idea about those maple seeds several months or a year ago, didn't have 3D printer (nor that scanner) to make one still dont. So I couldn't fabricate one.
thanks looking forward to trying this
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 ours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when thingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
I wonder what AI could come up with.
even if its not as efficient I really like the organic look. it'd make a great garden spinner
the link to the stl is a 404 btw
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
I love the inspiration from nature! I wonder if there is a generative AI tool for aerodynamic surfaces. I seem to remember when I was learning to build turbines that the reasoning behind the blade being narrower at the tip was because it would be moving faster than the center so the tips should have less drag. If speed is not your goal though I think maximum area would be more important for torque.
To your and @dwiz121 ''s post: the comparison would be hard to summarize. The torque may be what we really need from a turbine more than rotating speed.
Why?
Do you know how hard it is to harvest energy from a wt generator? Having a constant speed may solve a lot od problems. Torque would be the factor of power.
Another fantastic video.
I've often wondered why turbine blades were not this way around, I always put it down to the strength of the material at the root of the blade, with it having to carry such a large load at the tip of the blade when rotating.
It would be great to see this in a twin blade configuration on your Axial flux turbine, to see if it would out perform the Ingenuity blades in low wind speeds. Just what we need in the U.K.
On the Axial flux turbine. If the blade sets on either side of the turbine were different lengths, would that have the affect of turning the blades in to the oncoming wind???
I'm thinking more drag on the longer set. Obviously the performance would be limited to the maximum of the shorter set.
Keep up the great work.
Would like to see a tacometer to compare the 2. Some red/white racing stripes also.
Compared to other 3D printed blades, it's incredibly quiet.
Bionics still reigns ! Natural selection power is the ultimate driver for new ideas.
Try it without the seed part. That is on the "other side" of its axis when it rotates.
Oh, these should be fun to print!
for sure - but wait for today's vid!
Hi, May I ask you to do a video on that scanner ... I'm really stunned by your scan results ... thanks for the work you put into those videos
already done it mate th-cam.com/video/0GaABWgilC4/w-d-xo.html
Rob, this would be a good place to use 'tubercles'. They are the bumps on the fins of some wales, and have been proven to be 20% more efficient when used on blades.
lol - great minds think alike mate - wait for today's video!
Awesome! I wonder if for a VAWT, someone could extrapolate those samarae/s upwards and get a 3 bladed Samaravoneus
Interesting.
Come up with a cheap, efficient version of this that solves the common man's energy crisis, and you could end up being the world's most famous Good Samaratin.💁
Robert, Hope all is well with you, family , friends, and neighbors there in the Canterbury- Kent County area of England with the passing of the major storm Ciaran with 100+MPH / 165+KPH winds creating 1.2 million without power. Here in the States East Coast we call those types of storms "Nor'easters". I call them unwelcome
Why do you know so many things? :)
Love your content. I really connect.
i read a lot mate and i mean a lot i also do a far few things and when questions pop into my mind i read around to see if i can find the answer
Hi Rob, great idea, meaning I've been wondering the same with our finnish maple seeds with are higly similar in form. 😁 Can we get a comparison test of this against the Ingenuity turbine from NASA in video 2072? Does NASA beat nature? 🤔
Do it one bladed, just off-center it and some some relatively heavy counterweight for the "seed".
You should test it with only one instead of three blades.
It also could be possible to build an open source printer like the hengprinter to print these as big as you want using the petbot plastic filament maker to make it for free using found bottles... there's really no excuse thay someone couldn't make this cheaply
To do a comparison you would use blades of same weight right?
That is unfair past some size, probably starting at a foot per wing.
swept area mate - there is a fixed energy in an area of wind at a certain speed the output versus input would give us an overall efficiency
@@ThinkingandTinkering good point, was thinking abstractly forgot to take Conservation of Energy into account, So only Modifications that might increase the air flow (Like a Fairing) would help ( actually a Fairing would allow for testing both styles as would allow for measurements before and after the Air travels through it) although it might favor the Seed style as the blades would be getting increased air at tips which have greater surface area ( or am i out to lunch today ) LoL
I appreciate your content, Robert. Your channel stands out as a testament to the depth and variety of TH-cam beyond mere entertainment.
However, one of your assertions has left me perplexed: the idea that a blade slicing through the air is identical to air flowing over a stationary blade or wing. This concept seems counterintuitive considering the principle of momentum. For instance, the impact of moving marbles on a stationary pen differs from the effect when the pen is thrust through stationary marbles. It seems logical to extend this analogy to air movement, suggesting a distinction between a sail cutting through the air and air streaming around a sail. Care to elaborate? What am I misunderstanding?
did u try the reverse oorientation? delta ?
You should place the leaves exactly in the axis of rotation on the axis and not on the edge of the nose.😊
you think? doesn't sound right to me
I get a good old 404 on the Thingiverse link ;-(
s(h)ame :(
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
Rob, I read Samurai. So, you must realize my first thought was that a sword was the inspiration. Funny how our minds can trick us.
Funny that you said that. It would stand to reason, that someone swinging a sword with tubercles would be able to swing it faster and easier, than a regular sword. Sword with tubercles... Patent? :-)
Hawt beats vawt yet again!
Hi Robert, Maybe test performance boost by modifying both the leading, and trailing edge skin textures of the sycamore samara seed. To the leading edge add tubercle bumps copied from humpback whale's fin leading edge. To the trailing edge add the owl's wing trailing comb texture. All surface texture changes are hoped to reduce noise, and create more lift with reduced turbulence experienced by the next in line rotating / trailing blade cutting through a much less disturbed air molecule fluid stream. Thank You Robert for being you….intelligent, perceptive, intuitive, genuine, passionate, humble, fun, and thought provoking ! Enjoy each Day. Please send a "Hello" to Luke coming from here to there from across the pond. Robert, you are most worthy of the "The Global Teacher Prize".
wait for today's video mate!
@ThinkingandTinkering Robert...Thank You for this reply. I saw the re-test. I also see about a 20% rotation performance improvement. Brilliant..... & a most astonishing result to watch. I said "well... would you look at that" Nice work Mate ! : ) Thank you so much for the efforts to test again. All ao worth it.
But did you drop the 3D printed part to see how well it fluttered to the ground?
The seeds are counterweights. If there are three blades, leave them out.
How about a single blade? Let the counterweight do its job. You'll get naturally designed single-blade efficiency. Or so the hypothesis goes. I'd stick with three blades since I'm not a single-blade fan. 😁
Sycamore tree
Robert the link does not work it goes to a 404 for some reason....Thank you for the awesome idea though....be in peace God speed.
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 hours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
No stl files are found on thingiverse robert
thingiverse have taken to making the designs wait for 24 ours before they go public - i have no idea why - it is bit irritating tbh - but they be there when tingiverse has finished it's 'checks'
@@ThinkingandTinkering Okay then it will be alright, thanks for the message. :) keep up the good work. i like your video's a lot.
very very smart but make it bigger, much bigger :D
The seed is the pivot point 🤣
no it isn't - the seed is the pivot point and center of gravity when it is by itself - in this structure the center of gravity and pivot point is in the middle of the cone
Rob, I think he is saying that you should move the blades towards the cone, a little more, since, on the seedpod, the pivot point is not at the end of the seed, but in just a little bit.@@ThinkingandTinkering
ah ok - lol - i wish folks wouldn't be so cryptic lol - cheers mate
Love the asthetic!
cheers mate
First
awesome!
@@ThinkingandTinkering😂👍🏴