2088 A Mechanical Supercapacitor - The Huygens Mechanism For Wind Turbines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2023
- You can find the STL files here www.thingiverse.com/thing:627...
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Rob, so sorry to hear about your wife’s passing. I can’t imagine a loss of that magnitude. My heart’s with you. The laughter in your home must have been a tremendous thing! I hope that some how the laughter continues somehow. Surround your self with those that love to laugh and take time to heal. All blessing’s on you my friend.
One of the greatest elements of this design is that it's possible to make it more compact with multiple gears functioning like a Block and Tackle with a lot of movement in the chain slowly moving a heavy weight.
like that mate - thanks for posting
It should be possible to add a governor to this to controll the speed aswell to keep the rotations consistent.... I wonder whether this could be used in combination with a solar panel input to a motor generator?
This reminds me of a gravity battery system which would be ideal to use in old mineshafts
me also, i was thinking about a similar mechanism as an adjacent to the main weight, so it would be able to more easily accept power spikes and help reduce strain on the gearbox.
There are a lot more hills than mine shafts. Seems simple enough to put a cart on a track, or a weight on a ropeway. There's a lot less environmental impact versus flooding a valley.
I live on top of miles of abandoned mine shafts.
it is very smilar
Love the fact you allow free open access to all of the slt files, Thanks :)
You're welcome!
I seem to recall Ski lifts using a similar type of weight and pulley system to maintain tension equilibrium on the cable so that as the weight changes from no passengers to many passengers, there isn’t a huge lag in the cable or rapid rising. Not sure if it’s the exact same idea but similar.
this is awesome. was considering how I could build this at large scale at the homestead to 'store' energy physically. as always, fantastic share.
You could probably make it from bicycle components mate
Speaking of bicycle parts, I'm keen to do something similar and have it in my brain to use hubless gearing that uses one of the gearing principals that Rob has covered in the past. I'm looking to butcher an Enviolo hub into the fray xD
I really like this "Huygens Mechanism". This is a really great idea for storing energy.
Love it a fantastic idea might be an answer to my high winds problem ?.
awesome mate
I love the possibilities. There are so many aspects to explore. And I’m sure that eventually you’ll measure the differences.
i was just pondering exactly that mate lol
This is practical.
You should have seen my "invention" for a "flywheel energy storage device", a total failure due to my misunderstanding of nuanced thermodynamics.
It used the "conical pendulum" principle to maintain a "constant" speed, my idea being that the weights swinging from a central pivot would keep a shaft rotating at a constant velocity as the weights descended toward the center, maintaining "conservation of angular momentum".
While the assembly did maintain a "more constant" velocity, my wishful thinking made me blind to the inescapable fact that in order for the weights to "swing toward the shaft", the rotation HAD TO SLOW DOWN, which put me on the "free energy" trail without even realizing it as I built more complex assemblies trying to "force" the weights down by linking to a "inversely speed sensitive" rotary governor (which turns out would have had to exhibit a rotational velocity INVERSE to the main assembly, i.e. when the main is halted, the governor is at max RPM; oops...) before I realized I was chasing my tail.
Mad scientist ✌️
lol
Love that guy !
Best TH-cam Chanel out there, I wish I could do the stuff you do! You have a brilliant mind!
Wow, thank you!
OMG! This is BRILLIANT. I love it when old tech might be a better answer in a given situation.
Absolutely!
What a clever mechanism
i agree
A long and short weight, an hapless apprentice and storemans nightmare! 😊
So true!
This is exactly how one of the oldest grandfather clocks in our house works 💯
When I was an apprentice, I was sent to the stores for a "long weight" :)
Also on the list were 'left handed screwdrivers', 'wall to wall carpet snakes' and buckets of 'striped paint'.
Genius. Clock makers are a pilar of modern civilization.
We need to get our houses running like clockwork 😊
I've been playing with paper/cardboard clocks so this made me smile.
... Looking at those weights and how they are swaying. Wondering if you could pick up some micro energy by putting that artificial muscle vibration device inside, or something along that idea...
interesting idea butmstly they were swaying because they were actually pretty heavy and was holding them up - not sure if they would sway that much if fixed in position mate
Speaking of supercapacitors, when I first went past Denham in Western Australia (then a pop of 350) in the late '90's, I was intrigued to see the town had installed an onshore windmill for power generation. Before that the town grid was diesel powered as it wasn't connected to the state grid. Since I saw the windmill I read that a flywheel as a means of storage had been installed to smooth out the short term ebbs and flows of wind power generation. Today they've come a very long way with a number of more modern windmills as well as a large solar farm. The town is even getting into hydrogen as a fuel source. Very interesting and innovative stuff.
I was intrigued decades ago that the opal mining town of White Cliffs in NSW had it's own solar electricity production at a time decades ago when there was always a big fanfare about new leading edge solar energy development in California getting trumpeted in the famous Popular magazine . But Whiteciffs all along had been quietly in operation with it's humble system in the high expense days. Maybe fifteen years ago it connected to the grid though .
@@philip5940 When taking the train across the Nullarbor in the '80's I thought it would be the perfect place for very large solar farms. Still would be but more efficient now.
that is interesting mate - thanks for sharing
Beautiful, Heath Robinson lives
right next door to Rube Goldberg lol
@@ThinkingandTinkering And Wallace/Gromit.
@@ThinkingandTinkering And Foghorn Leghorn's nephew.
@@ThinkingandTinkering Wile. E. Coyote, anyone?
@@ThinkingandTinkering . .sorry. I'll let myself out.
That could work Nicely with my system and a catalyst to change the weight as it falls thanks for your video it gives me energy to know that my energy device will work
Great video Rob, I was just thinking about how long that chain would've took you to make, thinking with a plastic chain you could put magnets on each link then run the chain through coils on the chain's non-contacting sections and between coils around the gear contact sections?
for me minutes - for the printer a few hours
Thanks for the explanations!
cheers mat
Wintergatan uses this mechanism - it's superb.
Thank you Sir :)
Most welcome!
It seems like I have seen plans for fields of wave generators that do this, slowly ratcheting up dozens of weights as storage, which is released on demand for energy generation. I believe I've seen schematics for solar plants which use massive weights to do the same thing to store energy for nighttime or peak use, but those are probably electric motor driven.
I have been developing this on spintronics simulator, where it is mechanical representation of electronics, basically works as a capacitor. Have been interested in the machine for as long as i was introduced a few weeks ago by marble music guy was using hagen drive to keep tight pitch. Absolutely beautiful. I am very intrigued by what you will do with the torque converter and the drive and maybe using maybe using it on a bicycle, pumping uneven sinalsodal wave torque from the pedals transforming that uneven torque using the hagen drive and dumping constant velocity into torque converter powering the bicycle. Now that would be impressive. Love the videos really appreciate it!
awesome mate - chers
PLEASE do more videos on this looks really intresting.
It would make a great green lift.🤔🌍💕
for sure
Ok Rob I know this is off topic but you are one of the few people who might be able to help me with this back in the eighty we had gas power water pumps on our water trucks they had a great assessory a starter attached with a belt to the pully you would normally wrap the rope around to start the motor they called it a shunt wound starter
generator now either the starter is built in or not available after looking at over for one can't find one or even how to change a starter to a shunt wound what I want it for is back up power push a button and start the motor then have it provide power to my battery bank I'd like to see you do a utube video on this
This would be great in a gravity generator. How do you figure out the tooth size of the cog for a certain chain?
that's a long description mate - it really needs video or 30 minute typing lol - i will think about doing a vid if that is ok
Very cool! You could print in place sections of chain to minimize/streamline the assembly work.
i tired PiP - it didn't work very well for me
@@ThinkingandTinkering It's been a while since I did it myself. I made ball-less bearings. They were difficult to break loose but after a wear in with some graphite powder they were smoother than sealed skate bearings. The skate bearings have grease in them I think that made the minimum rolling resistance too high. They spin the filament spool roller on my printer still. Not useful at all for substantial weight but it works great for very lightweight projects. I'll revisit that print again because my printer has been updated quite a lot since then and my tolerances have improved significantly. You're using PLA?
Thank you Robert, interesting and entertaining as always. I am reminded of Blue Peter on the 60,s and 70s a bit. Did you also watch? 😊
Yes I have mate
Surely the drive path length doesn’t change. The chain is a static length. What changes is the position of the cogs at the weights.
I think... In the scenario where this becomes effective is you use a separate blade system with a freewheel clutch in between the drive... Then the gust is the only time the weight gets wound and doesn't detract from the efficiency of the original turbine...
Comprende???
Perhaps with the counter rotational blades 😉
Wow! That was quick.
it was an awesome idea mate and i wanted to explore it
@ThinkingandTinkering
I played with it on paper for a bit. Then watched your 80cm wind harvester videos again. And someone else's comment got me thinking about the adjustable excitation in car alternators, and petrol generators. Add flat plate transformers as brushless slip rings. One thing led to another and I think I could make a 1 meter diameter ball windmill, with a counter-rotating stator, to double the field transection speed, and also use a small permanent magnet generator for the excitation power source. It being spherical, there would actually be 2 identical mirrored generators. Mounted on a farm bell type mounting.
@ThinkingandTinkering
I did a mock up of the thermoformed ball windmill blades from some bowl lids, and they look like they should work quite well. These are about 16cm in diameter, blade width of about 15-20mm, 180° of a lid makes one blade. Mounted flat to a rim and rolled up to meet in the middle. Nice hollow in the middle for other pieces.
@@ThinkingandTinkering
Have you ever had that feeling, that Hagrid so eloquently expressed, "I really shouldn't have said that!"
Possibly novel and not obvious things in an open forum....
lol - oh i get what you mean - but after 10 years of open forum and all kinds of comments it gets to be a bit of water off a ducks back - truth is it doesn't matter much what you say half the time half the folks will disagree and the other half will violently disagree lol - i think the best thing is just to say it and see what develops!
Reminds me of the gravity light, ill have to go google it and see what ever became of that....
Humm...your going to make me buy a 3D printer. Lol
lol
What would be the weight needed per kw of out put? Love the video
Wouldn't this clock run at different rates depending on the local mass distribution? It assumes plumb bobs always are vertical but I think Henry Cavendish showed the Mason-Dixon anomalies were due to attraction from the the nearby Allegheny Mountains, later proven in the Schiehallion Experiment. Or maybe I should just be asking what is the effect of a lateral force on this, not just a vertical one?
Wintergarten is looking at this as well at the moment.
cheers
Looks very interesting for tidals too
good point mate - ceers
Check out tower clock automatic winding mechanisms where the large driving weight is a heavy electric motor which climbs the loop of chain between limit switches.
cheers mate
Nice
How about designing a Peletron? a high voltage generator, far more efficient than others like the Van Der Graff.
Could you not accomplish the same result with the simple flyball governor found on steam engine controls?
dunno - but i would think yes for the very very short term
This is something that I have thought about too but I think it would be more useful to use a flyball governor to control gearing on the output drive of a generator or for mechanical blade pitch control in VAWTs
The lighter weight assists the input force in raising the heavier weight whilst also having a smaller gear. Reducing the force required to raise the heavier weight. The input runs for a longer time because it’s in “low gear”. But once the input force is stopped. The heavier weight will take over and drive the high gear. Which requires greater force. Am I following this right?
Sounds about right.
yes - but the main reason for the lower weight is pretty simple - it's just to keep tension on that part of the chain
you might also like Flywheels for making power even. springs are also nice and remember any place you can use a spring you can use a air piston.
Thanks for the tips!
Please excuse my ignorance, but would either a water reservoir with a Tesla turbine , or thermal sand battery be also useful for a larger scale "capacitor" be useful?
Things that make you go hmm 🤔, interesting!
lol - it did make me go hmm fr sure lol
I watched this 10 minute video and built one in 7 minutes.
do a video too lol
Couldn’t you regulate the output with a serpentine coil and magnet entrapment ? Clocks use a mechanical entrapment . Using magnets and coil resistance to regulate how fast it falls . Clocks have 24 hours entrapment , using your planetary gears and coils and magnets could light an led for a day ??
there are loads of ways to approach it mate - i just liked this - it's pretty simple and straight forward
@@ThinkingandTinkering this is a fantastic method . I’ve been fascinated by mechanical energy storage devices ever since I was a kid ( clockwork trains , pendulum clocks wind up radio) . I meant on this mechanisms output . My ADHD mind raced to what might come next . Sorry i don’t mean to come across negative.
@@POKERDEAL Chill, I didn't see it as negative.
And I'm pretty sure as upbeat as Rob is he's damn near bulletproof when it comes to 'criticism'.
@@ThinkingandTinkering not simple to me but have been thinkjng for a few years there was some thing in this set up that would help make other other stuff work much better it has to be the key to use weight falling and pendlum motion into a very good battery i am dumber than box of rocks but i truly think this is the key!!!
I would like to build a capacitor made of two plates, very thin sheet, Wide band, Stainless Steel Slinkys. a Teflon or Mylar dielectric of 3mil thickness. and a secondary coil of insulated wire through the hole in the center as a stepper transformer in parallel to the capacitor.
Go for it!
If you ever need good chain, visit diesel pump UK for spent mercedes timing chains. They're good and strong, probably more than you'd ever need. He probably tosses them at least once a month 😅
cheers mate
Thank you ...but where I can get them (supercapacitor) here in S.Oman?
no idea
Exactly....only in China and order get lost somewhere...hhhh
while you are running a long chain anyway, you should use it to transmit power to the base of the wind turbine, that way your generator need not be up top but on the ground. run the chain inside the poll of the wind turbine so that wind does not blow the chain and gear system of it's sprockets.
for sure mate
What. Great idea...
Decentralisation I think is the key to energy.. not relying on nationalised energy or companies.
Thank you! Cheers!
No problem and thanks for replying.....keep up the great work
Kind of seems like a mechanical analogue to something like a mppt.
Remember, weights can almost always be replaced by hydraulic.
But is more complex.
it is
Weights can also be replaced by DIY. Oh, wait, 'waits'.
@@bikerfirefarter7280 you straight up mock me Rob style. Eh.
Just like he says eh.
Can you put the waits to work than drive it back into the generator?
that would make it a gravity battery mate
Flywheels with a spring and the Huygens?
sure
How would you caculate the stored enegy.
it's really an issue of power
The large weight would be good if you used a lead rod, maybe even both weights.
for sure mate
have the windmill pump water uphill to a reservoir, with the generator water powered
all you need is a water source and a reservoir
or two tanks one burried?@@ThinkingandTinkering
more of a flywheel than a capacitor?
i think you can compare a battery to a flywheel mate they have a lot of similarities
Flywheels are more of a coil-equivalent, resisting fast changes.
Gravity battery?
it could function that way if you wanted
Would it be possible then to combine multiple units in series, using different sized gears for torque conversion? That would in my mind make it easier to capture the smallest peak, and then transfer to a larger and larger "capacitor." I understand that there would be diminishing returns, but I would imagine that it would be similar to peak shaving a sine wave. I suppose it depends on the application.
Could be used to store small gusts in a low wind day, then turn the crank fast enough to generate until the stored energy is discharged, it then begins recharging using the previously unusable low wind speed. Maybe. Not sure if I'm conveying my thoughts correctly. I'm referring to low wind days and being able to achieve a faster rpm of the generator. Speed being relevant to power generated, I was just thinking that a mechanical capacitor could be used to run the generator at a useable or peak power for a short burst, when it otherwise would be unable to generate in the lower continuous wind speed.
i would think so mate
Lol!
English people just can't pronounce "Huygens"!
I was already smiling when I saw his name in the title of the video; let's hear Robert say "Huygens"!😂😂😂
Ok, let's just call him "Hoikins"for now.
We got bigger problems to solve...
lol - yes we do!
Here
awesome lol
I was really interested ... till I wasn't.
Seems more complex than just using a dump load resistor. You could harvest the heat from the resistors to say charge a sand bank thermal storage system. Turbines are at risk when they are not driving a load and free-wheeling. Also, I'm not convinced of the ability of this implementation to smooth sustained gusts. The length in time, difference of rotational speeds means that the capacitance is limited by length of the chain.
Using relatively simple weights/springs wind tubines can be made to 'feather' the blades when rpm and/or wind gusts above a desired limit. This stops the output/rpm going to excess. Similar to a centrifugal govenor mechanism. Of course this does not store the excess, but it does smooth things to optimise the best output of blade-angle wind-speed/rpm.
On second thoughts, you could store some excess energy in a large flywheel as well, and/or dumpload into a thermal store. It all depends on duration and magnitude of the 'surge'. The centrifugal govenor would still safe guard the turbine/generator from excess and damage.
it does a different job than a dump resistor - and luckily my job isn't to convince you of anything
Kind of reminds me of a "shishi-odoshi" Japanese water fountain. The "deer scarer" bamboo water fountain. Like from the movie Kill Bill. Maybe we should attach a super capacitor to a deer scarer fountain by a running stream or river?
we could always try it and see mate