Does BJJ Work in the Street? • Ft. Matt Thornton
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- The question of whether BJJ work in the street is a commonly asked question with a lot of misunderstanding, especially from traditional martial artists. To debunk this question I am joined by coach Matt Thornton, founder of Straight Blast Gym International with years of experience in both traditional and functional martial arts to help answer this question.
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Listen to the audio podcast version here: anchor.fm/martialartsjourney/episodes/23---Does-BJJ-Work-in-the-Street---Ft--Matt-Thornton-e2rk3m
ohhhh....!!! BJJ FAILS????!! IN THE FLOOR???!
OHHH!!!.... I THOUGHT BJJ was a version of Captain America!!!! SHIT...! IT ISN´T...??? I´M SHOCKED...!! I THINK THEY BRAINWASHED ME!!! Oh...be carefull, MARTIAL ARTS JOURNEY...i THINK MAYBE YOU BRAINWASHED TOO!?! I think they did it to you too...
th-cam.com/video/TCupBwE-Zwk/w-d-xo.html
So BBJ is used by Police? Military and police around the world have used JJJ , Aikido , KM . Judo ect.ect. Your guy talks about someone called to cuff somebody , fine a secured area . Never hear responses about unsecured areas , ROLLING when there are other people that may be against you stomping your head in . Biting gouging eyes or slipping out the weapon and gutting you while your on the ground. Of course there are useful aspects of BBJ in a fight but its delusional to think it's a defense or combat art. Also strange that there are many notable BBJ guys , few you interviewed, that are familiar with Aikido and say it's useful in BBJ. You can challenge the usefulness be try being honest . You ignore people that have experience in both . You show failure by using people that aren't familiar and give them no guidance in how the techniques are supposed to work. Your technique and lack of using principles show but you are even worse in these experiments. All systems training is different than reality. If your attacked and using BBJ are you going to ROLL and hold the attacker in a lock till help arrives on think he taps and will leave when you let them up , if he hasn't got friends that have already kicked you to death. No you would break stuff . Why do you think Aikido is limited to its training " traditional " mode . Aikido isn't even my primary art but it works . May be wrong but didn't H . Gracie consider BBJ to much sport and GJJ the more defense.? When the Gracies stuff came from Kanos Judo sport why is it called jujitsu. You down Ueshiba yet Kano and other Martial Arts greats of the time admired him. You are either ignorant or deceitful. No art makes you invincible but to think sports BBJ is a superior defense system is delusional. Maybe your just playing for you tube following . I want to see you Roll in a street encounter.
Great video, you inspire me to train better. Your journey is super interesting
@@ricardoalmeida341 That is some awesome team work and looks quite uh, invigorating. Are you 'The Ricardo Almeida'? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Almeida
@@flonomcflooneyloo7573 No, I'm not😁sorry but i can tell you...this Chanel is not legit with imparcial opinion by those 3 guys
The question in a nuthshell: Does avoiding bad positions and obtaining good positions (the principle of grappling/wrestling) work in the street?
Yes, it does.
With all due respect people are making comments about eye pokes and groin strikes. If someone has dominant position ( mount, knee on stomach, cross sides or a heavy top game such as a wrestler or bjj practioner ) dont u think they could eye poke and groin strike and they r in a much better position to do it in ?? What matt is saying about core basics dont change whether its in a cage, street or gym is so true. For example if u found yourself on the ground mounted , in crossside or knee on belly u would still have to move your hips to get out which is a core movement in bjj ? Or say someone tried to do a double leg u would still need to sprawl which is a core basic of wrestling. Core basics never change they always remain the same. There is not one set of basics for street and another set of basics for the cage or for the gym. Its 2019 some people r still not understanding what core basics are and how they r applied in a gym, cage or street. Whether its bjj, boxing , wrestling, greco roman or muy thai they all operate off core basics.
I did most of my fighting in elementary school, and it usually ended with a larger kid sitting on my chest trying to spit it my mouth. Wish I knew how to bridge and sweep back then :)
"Don't use an inferior training method for a more serious circumstance."
Lots of wisdom in this
yes Bjj
I'm 36 years old and struggling to think of the last time I heard an interview with a martial artist that seemed to speak to me so directly. And I've been watching, listening, and reading, everything I can on the subject since I was 14. Thank you.
Matt has thought this out for a looong time. He's probably the most articulate in this topic among martial artists.
Epistemology
Exactly.
This was one of the best interviews I have ever seen online. Matt provided insight into psychology, and the scientific method. I applaud, and thank him for his insight.
For real, what an incredibly smart guy!
Funny enough, your opponent does not give a rat's ass about psychology. He just wants to hurt you. It all comes down to who is more prepared... Even if you practice pure jiu-jitsu for a number of years... You will struggle against an opponent that just wants to smack your head on the kerb and has done it numerous times before(aka, a bully)...
It will work on an untrained opponent. That is about it...
Totally agree. One of the best interviews on Martial Arts I have ever watched or listened to.
Great interview. I recently got my black belt in Judo, but I'm also glad I trained and competed in Wrestling and BJJ. These different styles competing against each other keeps them honest.
This is an amazing interview. Matt Thornton is intelligent, analytical and deeply grounded in objective truth. More importantly, he fundamentally understands the correct methodology for collecting, analyzing and interpreting objective data. It's refreshing to hear from a rational thinker in the combat sports arena applying and demanding the same level of evidence based proof from his field as would a physicist, research scientist, or any other skeptical profession grounded in empiricism would from theirs.
He reminds me a bit of Sam Harris.
My own opinion on this is that there is no one specific martial art that will prepare you for all the unknown scenarios out there, though there are skill sets from each martial art you can apply into real life scenarios. One major thing that gets people into rough situations most of the time is the overconfidence from a person that “knows” or “practises” martial arts. There is nothing more important than knowing your limits (what you can and can't do with martial arts), being as observant as you can, and being flexible by adapting to situations to the best of your abilities. Practising is one thing and applying it is another kind of rule.
My two cents as a guy with both MMA and TMA backgrounds:
Certain moves/strategies in any sport martial arts are going to be impractical in the "streets" or even just in other sports. For example, when I box I like to trap my opponent's glove under my armpit while in the clinch. That is not a practical maneuver in any kind of fight where there are not boxing gloves present. The same concept applies to Muay Thai, BJJ, wrestling, Judo, etc.
Additionally, there are certain tactics that would work in some kind of no-rules bout that are absent in BJJ and MMA. Just look at sports like Lethwei or even early UFC/ Vale Tudo where moves like headbutts are allowed. That changes the game. Combatives variables also play a role in the "streets". Things like situational awareness and the ability to perform under stress become more crucial. The stress of an actual violent encounter is different than the stress of competition, though I am convinced the latter helps in preparing for the former.
Lastly, another key difference between street fights and sports is the sheer difference of time. In a sport you feel out the opponent. You dissect their defense and make a plan. You establish and break rhythm. Things like that. On the streets basically none of that is present. What is more paramount is just a high amount of offense performed in a brief amount of time.
When I was training in Muay Thai, one of the advanced students was a UFC fighter. He offered a BJJ intro class, just to see if anyone would be interested. After each submission was rehearsed several times, we would be allowed to choose a partner of relative equal size and "roll". At this point, nothing is choreographed. It is in my opinion very effective. It should be even more effective against someone who has no idea what you are doing. It enhances your comfort with striking, because you are less fearful of take downs.
It isn't even fair if your opponent doesn't know what you are doing.
This "roll" is effective if dealing with a single, unarmed opponent of a similar size. It's useless against multiple attackers!
@@mikedasilva5239 That's always the knee jerk argument. Always said by someone who obviously don't train BJJ and probably no martial art at all.
I can get in a RNC or guillotine while facing another attacker and choking his friend out. To hit me, he as to get through his friend 1st or I threaten to snap his neck as a deterrent until he passes out. Now it's 1 on 1.
Or I close the distance on 1, clinch him, turn him, and dump him with a body fold takedown or a judo sweep (but its all derived from judo anyways) and bounce his head off the concrete. Im still on my feet, and he's knocked out or a lot more timid. And, I'm just a white belt. AND, this scenario is a real life incident.
The only people who think BJJ is only effective against 1 person are people who don't know shit about BJJ. And, watching a few UFC fights doesn't count😆
@Erik Stevens so your in bjj claiming it's effectiveness with a judo throw. Sound tty messed. Judo rules thought whether bjj think so or not!😊
@Erik Stevens so your in bjj claiming it's effectiveness with a judo throw. Sound tty messed. Judo rules thought whether bjj think so or not!😊
BJJ works as part of what you need to learn for self defence. There is no question about it.
Matt Thornton is one of the clearest heads on these topics. Great discussion and bravo again to you for having these conversations.
Title: "Does BJJ Work in the Street?"
Thumbnail: "BJJ Does Work In The street"
Well, that solved the mystery quickly.
@@asianfighter62 good grief fella!. As it happens I think the guy you are replying to is expressing doubts re BJJ on the street.
@@asianfighter62 bwa haha hahaha ha hahaha ha hahaha ha hahaha ha hahaha ha hahaha ha. Here is my suggestion to you. Go to the nearest bbj school to you. Go test your wing chun.
@@asianfighter62 I challenge you.
WING CHUN Hey man haven’t you heard “everybody have fun tonight, everybody wing chung tonight”
clickbait!!
i love bjj - but when i was working doors- the last thing i would dream of- is taking an opponant down to the ground. you get kicked by passers by. you have to stay on your feet.
Amd what if they take you down how would you get up without grappling
@@hattorihaso2579 that's where bjj comes in handy. put only there.most of the time in a bjj class is spent trying to pass guard, or stop some one passing your guard. Basically you roll around on the ground like a dog in heat lol.
@@peterbrennan393 no wrong thats against a somebody who knows jiu jitsu if yourboppnonent doesnt know jiu jitsu you go to mount real quick and you know real men fight 1 on 1 you know a real fight thats where it comes in handy too
@@hattorihaso2579 the reality of real street violence- is that you need to stay off the ground, if at all possible. most of the time- it is possible. complete strangers will kick your head in while you are on the ground.
@@peterbrennan393 no not complete strangers his friends and as i said 1 on 1
The main issue I have is the dismissal of other arts as "fantasy based". Like I'm a data science major and a philosophy minor, I LOVE the experimental pressure testing ideas that this man talks about, this is what I do. Just because I do it with every art I want to study doesn't make it any worse. This whole thing is a strawman, I would never make any of these arguments, bjj works, im starting to learn some of it recently but im also learning other stuff that is more traditional. There's stuff in every art that doesn't work in an environment that's different from what it's usually trained in. Bjj has to be trained differently for in the street, very differently, but so does other stuff, I know one aikido studio (only one, like it's still aikido) a friend went to for a bit where they heavily focused on only the practicality of the art because the master grew up in a very dangerous neighborhood and very quickly learned what didn't actually work. It's about how you teach it really. But the main issue I have is the blatant dismissal
Sword fighting, clubs, sticks, and knives have been used to kill throughout human history. He said Kali was fantasy. Lol.
I thought the same thing. He's too quick to dismiss. And unfortunately, there isn't much concrete data on martial arts to start talking about scientific data.
And the fantasy based martial arts isn't what he's saying. That is crazy
BJJ is great and I do recommend the training or any martial arts. A plan is better than no plan always! BJJ isn't going to hold up in combat or a street fight. An attack almost always occurs out of the blue, from your blind side, or while your focus is on something else. Situational awareness is what's going to keep you alive. An attack only lasts one or two strikes. In commando training, two people attack one. It's very stealthy. The first attacker renders you helpless and quiet (cupping your mouth) while the second attacker ends you with a blade in the lungs etc so you can not cry out. Even on the on the street you can't take another opponent to the ground because his buddy will come up and smash your brains out with a brick! The strike will be to the throat, eyes, ears, etc that will end the battle immediately. In taverns, i've send Japanese fighters that ruptured the bladder of the attacker with a simple strike with their hip. Any time one tries to choke you out you are allowed to use deadly force. This holds true with police and why they discharge their handgun. Martial arts aren't about what you can do at your best. It's about what you can do while in your worse situation.
Will Master Wong agree? That is Da Question! Is it for "Da Streets"?
:)
are you gonna post this on every martial arts related video? thats the question
@@predater5017 yes! Good Idea!
Is this question for Da Streets?
Does Master Wong approve?
😁😉
Will master Wong go and test it out on the mat?
Tai Chi Tube the point of bjj is that unless someone gets a standing knockout the fight will go to the ground at some point. bjj as about what to do if the guy is on top of you, ie; choke, submission, or sweep so that you are on top. If you are good enough that you can avoid ever being off your feet with what you are doing now carry on.
We do a Hadouken contest every other year to see who has the biggest Chi level. Your MMA wont work against us 🤜🔥
my Kamehameha will destroy you all!
When you put your wrists out for a Hadouken you leave your face open and you can be leg swept. Also many Bjj takedowns would work on you
@@hithere2602 when I put my wrist out to charge a hadouken, an Aikido guy wrist locked me. Only victory they’ll ever attain >:(
Love your videos. Your story is what a lot of new martial artists go through.
As someone who has had the fortune/misfortune of experiencing a street fight after learning some BJJ, I can confidently say it is VERY effective.
Thanks for this video, it answered so many questions I had about BJJ. The egos and myths still exist even in BJJ. A skilled and hardened fighter is going to come out on top.
the best ever self defense technique i learned on youtube from a krav maga teacher. He was like “ehhh so you think some guys are about to to beat you up. What I do is a pull out my cellphone and start livestreaming. Then I say look, you are on youtube.”
Title: Ass whooping caught live streamed on youtube
lol :)
Say Facebook instead. No one cares on TH-cam.
These videos you do are really valuable. Really helpful. Great work. Wish I knew this stuff much earlier. Thanks for posting.
I saw your video vs the MMA fighter back in the day when it happened, I am so happy to find you again doing BJJ, you are probably one of the nicest persons I see on youtube relating martial arts.
I cant imagine the humbling process you went through, but I admire it,it is like if in 10 years all of us BJJ guys fight a mmm "Canadian Aikido" guy and saw nothing works and would have to accept and retrain, few people could do that.
33:00 What??? There's no mount escapes "FOR THE STREETS!!!" ??? I like this guy.
Hahaha!! Yes, I guess coach Matt Thonton is one of the polar opposites of Wong
IT'S NOT FOR THE RING, RAMSEY. IT'S 4 DA SKREETZ
I missed the point hes saying the technique is the same theres no mat variant or street variant..a hip escape is a hip escape no matter the terrain
I heard "There is no SPECIAL mount escape for the streets", not exactly the same.
A simple Upa mount escape will work most of the time.
Jiu Jitsu in its original martial form intended for when someone has closed the distance, broken through your defense, and forced a grapple. It is a second line of defense not a primary line of defense. The primary line of defense in any martial situation is distance and maintaining distance.
In MMA, strikers usually lose to wrestlers because maintaining distance fails if the wrestler has a good shoot. and ok striking. The wrestling will keep the striker worried by mixing things up a bit. So, the strikers have to rely on puncher's chance. Khabib vs Conor is a good example.
jiu jitsu in its original form was when you found yourself without a weapon ;till you could take or get to one .
@Guy V. if you have a point i can't find it .
@Guy V. you're the one who wrote this jebber jabber ;so yea i think it is .
@@ddg-fi5bp not now
I would say it depends upon the situation. Like Michael Bisping says if you find yourself on the floor in a bar fight, get up as quickly as possible before the mate of the guy you are fighting stamps on your head. If one person attacks you in the street, you can totally take him out of the equation with BJJ. Reading the situation is important. It's also important to remember that 9 times out of 10, the best response is to bail. Remove yourself from the situation and nobody goes to hospital. The only bruising you will suffer is to your ego.
Really awesome talk! This really helped me make a more sound decision.
Side-note: I have personally and anecdotally seen the effectiveness of non-sport, non-contact Karate in street encounters. I imagine may others here have as well. This I think speaks to the value if drilling a few basic techniques/strikes over and over, and drilling them hard. I did a few years of Karate as a kid, and throughout school I won multiple fights by simply opening with either a super hard front-kick to the body, or a super hard reverse punch to the face or body. That was always enough, and I know other people who had the same experiences.
This is because ordinary people are not prepared to receive or deliver proper blows. Letting a Karate student front-kick you in the torso while you're not properly braced is gonna mess you up. And unlike boxing (sadly) there is a lot of focus in Karate on delivering a proper bare-knuckle punch. Of course, these advantages often go out the window when said Karateka actually starts getting hit or grappled back, as they have no experience with full-contact resistance. But it is worth noting the niche street application of even fluff strip-mall Karate.
I enjoyed this comment
Maybe there's something to that form of Karate. But the streets are unpredictable, and I think this is perhaps the crux of the matter. Many opponents won't have any proper training, but that kinda depends on where you live. Where I live there's lots of bad neighborhoods, and those dudes tend to be in fights often (even among themselves). I think most minimally functional MAs can give you some degree of ability to kick and punch, but also fitness and strength, which will work to your advantage in many situations, and also give you some intimidation factor.
But then, there's the question: what about the other situations? A friend of mine is a tough nut to crack and has no formal training at all. He's not a thug, but he's short tempered, so he's been in countless fights growing up, and his success rate is nearly perfect, afaik. I've seen him fight, and he can be vicious, depending on who he's up against. What if you're faced with one or more guys like that robbing you? If you're not stress tested in your training, I don't know... The thugs I see in my area, many of them are of that kind (which is in part why my friend is).
@@skaruts Most tough guys like that, their strength is in their aggression and their lack of fear on getting hit. Those are really the most important things at play in a fight.
But if you can shoot and drop a guy like that on their back, most likely they will be confused and not really know what to do. They will be on guard the punches they expect to come raining down, but it won't even occur to them to be on the lookout for an arm bar or a kimura.
A guy that is dodging and weaving because of his (kick) boxing training is hard to hit with a straight karate punch. Add some footwork (missing in karate and wing chun) and he will run rings around you.
School fights are totally different. You're not fighting for your life, and until you're at LEAST 16+ everyone is weak as hell and mostly incapable of doing each other real damage.
We've all seen school fights where people get hit in the head with bare fists many times and walk away fine. Ever see anyone get 1 hit KO'd at a high school? Almost unheard of.
An adrenaline soaked strong adult male is going to completely ignore a front kick from 99% of karate black belts like it didn't even happen. They won't even feel it, trust me.
Unless you're able to Muay Thai smash someones leg to bits in a single kick, going for the body is a waste of time.
What an awesome interview. His response is spot on!
Superb points by Matt Thornton! Thanks for the video, Rokas!
Styles don’t matter. The ultimate delivery system is you not your style. Training method is important, how you train with the chosen system is event more important. Repeatability is not important, in fact systems should not be repeated. Systems should be used as training methods to unlock each individual’s unique abilities for self-preservation through the act of violence in dynamic and unpredictable situations. That is the true efficacy of martial art. And to know if someone (not their style) is effective or not, fight as if your life is depending on it, otherwise it’s just a game.
I'm just a rando in the comments so who cares what I think but if you're interested in it my opinion is that all effective grappling arts (including BJJ) are incredibly effective in 1v1s , not only in neutralizing the other guy but in keeping you safe
but one also needs to know how to be a good striker and was needs a second style that is good at striking because if it's 1v2 (or more) you never want to be entangled with one person for longer then a second cause then the other guy can just get behind you and take you out without you even knowing what happened and unless the other guy is incredibly week a grappling engagement rarely takes less than a second especially if it goes to the ground
but in a 1v1 striking fight while you may be able to take the other guy out just as good but you are A LOT more likely to get injured in the process
as well it's worth to take in to account that both a grappler can force a striker in to grappling range and if the striker isn't a good grappler they'll loose, meanwhile a striker can also keep a grappler at striking range and if they aren't too good at striking they'll loose
so in summary while BJJ can be incredibly effective in self defense but it's still lacking an important element of self defense that being striking, which is fine because a BJJ guy will likely reach much higher skill in grappling much faster then let's say a MMA guy that trains both but if ones goal is self defense they need to eventually also learn how to strike, same being with let's say a Muay Thai guy, a striker, needing to eventually also go out and learn enough grappling for scenarios in which the thing they prefer is unable to be executed properly for whatever reason, and then get a gun, because something tells me guns are slightly better for self defense then just about anything else
This was too long tto read but you made several great points!
Don’t all studies show that within 9 meters a blade almost always beats out a gun.
@@harageilucid4352 Thanks, and sorry I tend to get ramblily
Bad doggie: not exactly. Its not quite nine meters but 21 feet (google 21 ft rule) and whats been demonstrated is that when the gun is in the holster, a person with a knife could be able to rush forward and stab the shooter in the time it takes the shooter to draw and fire. Somtimes knife “wins” and sometimes both knofe and gun lose.
Its also understood that being aware of this potential allows one to prepare for it. But take home message should be that knives are just as deadly as guns and should not be taken lightly.
@@alakazamle Kind of kind of not, I mean if that were the case then we'd all carry swords wouldn't we?
It's mostly a question of who has their weapon drawn think of it this way reaching for a weapon+drawing a weapon+using a weapon takes more time than just using it so if I had a knife drawn and pointed at you and you reached for a gun in a way in which I realize what you're doing I'd likely have stabbed you by about the time you had the gun half drawn which is where hand to hand combat comes in handy but this is given you're not weary smart and don't back up as you're drawing it, as if you do it's really hard to tell who will come out on top and once the guy with a gun has it drawn he's won,
there's also the question of range since I like messing around with knives and they're in fact some of my favorite weapons I can give you some estimates, my killing range with a knife would be about 2 to 2.5 meters from where my front most foot is and I have fair confidence in taking out someone drawing a gun if I reach the other person with my knife in that range, if someone has a gun but they aren't reaching for it it increases to 3 to 3.5 meters 4-6 if it's a sneak attack from the back, 9 is rather outlandish unless the other guy is hard of hearing and week of sight as it's more than enough space to see someone charging at you draw a gun and shoot
though it is important to note that even if someone is shot in the head their knife attack will carry through so someone may draw a gun and get a head-shot but still end up injured because they were just incompetent and forgot that there was still a big clump of meat coming at them with a knife even if it was no longer conscious
Also the competence of the marksmen involved is something to take in to account, my maximal range with a firring with gun that I have just drawn in which I can hit a head sized moving target is about 10 meters and double that for a body sized target but not everyone has practiced this such as I have
wisdom is also a factor of course as let's say if I have a gun my cotes inner chest pocket and I just go for it I'm likely to get stabbed, meanwhile if a robber orders me to give him my valet then I can just pretend to be going for that and pull a gun on him I am a lot less likely to get stabbed, but if I give him my wallet and then shoot him in the back I might go to jail but no chance in hell a knife will get anywhere even near me
and of course there is the willingness to kill
Though over thinking aside generally speaking if both parties know what they are doing it should be around 3 meters in which a blade has the edge over a undrawn gun but if the gun is drawn the bladed person needs to be under 3 meters away from you or he is royally screwed but even if he is under 3 meters away it's at beast only even money
... well that's just based of my studies in to armed combat, if you have a link to those studies saying 9 meters I'd be weary interested in reading them, though if I may be so bold to make an assumption then I'd say that those papers only take in to account statistics based off police reports to draw an average number but not the backgrounds of the marksmen (if you can even call someone who can't handle a male weapon from 9 meters away)
The thing I liked most about BJJ is there was no pseudo sophistry when I stepped in. He just explained the rules and showed us the techniques to drill. I've been in Taekwondo and Gung Fu, where they'd say shit like "throw a kick, like it's a horse following the sounds of a waterfall" and I remembered thinking "wtf does that bull shit mean?" And I'd just roll with it thinking it'd make sense at some point. But once I tried out boxing and BJJ, it just made a lot more sense and seemed more based in reality.
Great video man. Loved how he talked. So much reality in one video.
Many street fights involve multiple opponents or weapons, grappling only works one-on-one even the Gracie family says that... 😊
Weapon styles like Eskrima have a better chance of success, should be obvious...
Most Escrimadors carry a knife and a backup knife, just in case... 😊
Let's be honest. Hurt is a relative term in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Let's see last year I was out for four months due to a bad ankle sprain from a take down, this year I had a hyper-extended elbow put me out for a month, got back on the mat and same week popped a rib. I've had my collar bone dislocated getting ready for a tournament, broken toes dislocated fingers, even a mild concussion from throws lol
@Daniel Dunlap dude you gonna be ok? I hope you get better and stop getting hurt. Also are you really practicing safely if you're getting hurt that much?
@@momohodgson6435 After almost 9 years of BJJ, I'm surprised thats all thats happened. Such is BJJ. Some of my injuries were due to overzealous training partners, others were just shit happens.
I go with kickboxing (whatever style you want withi Dutch, French, Thai) and judo (wrestling with clothes and takedown defence+ground fight) cause they "involve real element(clothes)" and all the functional parts. I still remember that judo anti-takedown, it served me well in BJJ.. Too bad a lot of BJJ sparring is ground only :p. BJJ great if you wanna learn how to get back up.
Wow. this is probably the best explanation and interview ive seen on this topic. its about training method that makes it effective, spot on I reckon. thanks for the video!!!
By far, 100%, the best technique to use against weapons or multiple opponents? Awareness. Self awareness, awareness of one's environment and the people within it, awareness of where the trouble is... If you are harder to catch off guard, it's less likely that you'll be attacked.
I dunno man. My crew packing 9mm trained in American gunslinging (a real martial art)
Works just fine.
@@rye-bread5236 Why shoot someone if you don't need to?
Tf? I don't know what you are on but I classify someone using a weapon against me justification to use a gun.
You literally said best technique to use against weapons?
I said a better weapon
Then you said why use a weapon *facepalm
The single most important factor in any fight is your brain. Be smart.
I wouldn’t want to be on the ground in a street fight especially w multiple attackers but if I wound up on the ground I would certainly like some BJJ skills to defend and get up.
Awesome. Great interview
The best thing to do is cross train between BJJ and a stand up art from a good instructor. I learned functional mantis kung fu and BJJ from the same teacher before going to other school and training other arts and found that my original cross training had served me very well. BJJ is a very important part of a complete martial arts system, but stand up is just as critical ESPECIALLY for street fighting and self defense. Just like a traditional martial artist training a dead system from a teacher who only teaches forms, someone who only trains ground game and ignores stand up and striking (as straight BJJ does) and thinks that they have the ultimate answers is also drinking the cool aid.
Pure facts
Let me ask you this...do you think Demian Maia could defend himself in a street fight?
@@kingjrc4987 I'll be honest, I don't pay much attention to professional fighters, but I'll say this. If he's a good BJJ guy (which I'm guessing is your point), then I'm sure he could handle himself fine against an untrained fighter without a weapon without a problem. Things get cloudy if the attacker catches him by surprise, has a weapon, and / or attacks with friends. But the point is that straight BJJ does not incorporate strikes and kicks (stand up fighting) and focuses on the ground which may be less than ideal when it comes to a complete martial arts system and self defense. A karate guy who doesn't spar and just trains proper striking technique and partner drills (so not just stand alone kata but still doesn't have sparring) may do just as well or maybe even better as he won't go to the ground (in a one on one self defense senerio that ends quickly). My point is that BJJ is important, but alone is incomplete and that believing it to be the stand alone answer is the same mindset that some traditional martial artists (particularly those training only forms) have.
Or learn judo
@@lo-fireviews2693 Still doesn't have strikes and kicks. Same argument as against straight BJJ (great art, has a lot to offer, incomplete on its own).
I disagree with Matt with regards to stick fighting and how it translates to sparring. We spar with Jo's (staves) and many movements we train do come out in sparring and can be applied.
Aikiflow Dogbrothers are an example how aliveness changes a group of arts, FMA.
@@zplitterz I've seen some of the dog brother stuff, some bits I totally agree with, some I don't. Theres a video Ramsey Dewey put out earlier this year which points out several issues when it comes to weapon sparring below is the video. th-cam.com/video/OOjHXVO6-F4/w-d-xo.html
The point he makes about the sword making that first cut that's when the fight should have finished.
We can't replicate 100% weapon fighting (or any fighting) without risk of injury but we can put measures in place to reduce risk such as masks, gloves etc.
I do agree with you about it should be "alive", however, I think there is a balance to understand the context.
I think the HEMA ruleset is probably the best in terms trying to replicate a realistic scenario and their balance between train form and sparring is about right, and also demonstrates it is possible to translate that skillset.
I am not sure what parts of dogbrothers fighting you don't agree with. I'd hazard a guess it may involve guys fighting like they have no masks on. My reply to that is, fair enough. I currently fight at dogbrother gatherings. I try to fight like there is no mask or gloves. To each their own, but there are people out there who don't stop until they are dead, in real life. So perhaps fighting past the point where you think someone would go down after sustaining a strike from a stick is useful. And people know when they've been hit while in friendly matches. It's essentially vale tudo with sticks. MMA is handy on many fronts, but it protects the fists with wrappings and gloves, and many rules to ensure an entertaining sport. But it's still quite useful for truthful martial arts. And my actual point was that dogbrothers pushed forward what people fighting with a stick is about, what's possible, how to make sequences work, etc. No one has ever said it represents death matches. But I'd pick someone to win who has had many full contact stick fights with little gear over a guy who wears full body armor and swings twigs and thinks they will smash someone with every blow, or had trained drills for years. Point is: going into aliveness and away from fantasy no matter what, I think will yield helpful feedback.Along with clarity of intent, goals, and a clear sense of how it's being done.
@@zplitterz Yes. You're right. Its when people ignore the fact they are wearing protection. Any protection should be there to prevent injury, not a reason to go into kamikaze mode.
A good example of a safe weapon training method. Patterns become dead when you fail to understand them. There's a lesson in certain patterns and they exist in this system as well.
th-cam.com/video/ww2BN_JrPL8/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely awesome. I love the way you explain the differences in fantasy compared to real applications of martial arts.
One of the best interviews on martial arts on the Internet. Really.
Excellent video and discussion. Love the Rugby reference! Never heard that one but I get it. Having played it I know that I can take a lot of punishment and keep going which does give me confidence in a fight. IMO you can get a lot from several different forms. As a Taekwondo practitioner, I realize it's limits and look to supplement it. The Holy Trinity of self defense IMO is BJJ for ground, boxing for hand strikes and Taekwondo or Muay Thai for the kicks. Keep up the good work!
As a scientific person I find his arguments refreshing.
I was about to switch channel, because the arguments made took a while to crystalize. I felt that Matt was struggling to get to the point in the first minutes, but the points he did make made it worth being patient.
Insightful 💡! Thank you for your effort to bring this conversation to the community.
the important thing is not making a religion out of any martial art, INCLUDING BJJ
Jesus is the only truth
"Works in the street" implies self defence. Unfortunately BJJ has clear flaws in this department:
1. In the streets the last thing you want to do is go on the ground: while you're doing kimura to your opponent, his friends will be kicking your head and ribs.
2. BJJ teachers should start teaching self defence lessons on actual hard pavement / concrete floor: this way they learn how they must adjust their ground game so they don't permanently hurt their knees after going to ground in full force sparring/fight situation.
3. On the streets people can use improvised/carried weapons, such as sticks, knives, etc. which can do a lot of damage. It's a different thing to defend against non armed opponent than someone who can make any kind of fast attack with the weapon/object they're wielding.
(Disclosure: I've practiced BJJ)
krakulandia that’s weird that you’re saying that and you’ve trained BJJ.
Didn’t they teach you a technical stand up?
Usually the people who say things like this train TMAs and don’t really understand what goes on at a BJJ class and so they say shit like this.
No, you don’t want to go to the ground in a fight. Fortunately, if you know jits (especially if the other guy doesn’t) you’re never going to the ground. Unless you decide that it’s safe to, in which case you can.
Meanwhile if you’re training (for example) a striking art for self defense, if someone does take you to the ground, you’re not going to know how to get up correctly, and if they do know a bit of grappling - they can keep you on the ground.
And now your friends can jump in and hit him with their improvised weapons. You have friends with you in this completely made up hypothetical situation, don’t you? If not, it’s fine, just change it so your opponent doesn’t have friends with him either, since we are just making shit up.
I don’t think BJJ instructors should start training on concrete. That sounds like it’s going to cause more injury than it would create benefit. But I’ve rolled on both hardwood floor and a concrete car park and both times it was fine. If anything, in the car park, my buddy was the one who got hurt. Once you’re actually on the ground it’s fine. It’s not judo.
Although judo would be a great supplement. In terms of being able to defend yourself, judo and BJJ I think are your best bet. If you want some striking throw in the classic boxing or Muay Thai.
As for weapons and multiple opponents... yeah so there’s no effective way to train for this. It’s far too chaotic, in real life it’s too situational. You can’t be taught how to defend yourself from multiple people or weapons, that is going to come down to luck and circumstance. Anyone who claims they can teach you how to defend against multiple attackers (who isn’t a sprinting instructor) is selling snake oil and should be treated with skepticism.
@@jaymiddleton1782 Probably just better training Judo, why train both? We do balanced 50/50 standing and ground work at my DoJo,would be a waste of time and money doing BJJ.
@@dominicmccree8380 yeah sorry man, as much as I like judo, they really can't fight on the ground virtually anywhere but in japanese kosen judo schools. They can pin you, sure, and know a million armbars or collar strangles or turtle turnovers, sure, but have no guard nor guard passing game - cause they don't need to, in their sport.
There's been more phantom "friend kicking you in the head" kicks in the universe in Bjj vs SOMETHING ELSE threads, videos and posts than any other thing in the universe. Yes, it can and does happen, but if anything, what is more likely (as numerous videos have shown) is a "friend" separates the parties once the BJJ is preventing himself from getting his ass kicked (like the infamous b-ball video). It's not just about interference when BJJ is submitting someone, it seems like friends jump in as soon as they realize their buddy is wrapped up and cannot use traditional "fighting" to win. So for me, that does not invalidate BJJ as Self Defense at all. It proves that you will 90 percent of the time, either win by submit or the other guy begs to quit, or his friends (in such scenarios) will break you apart and forget about it. Yes, there are exceptions, but self defense is NOT based on exceptions any more than anything else--you can only utilize a certain set of tools, absent a firearm or knife (or theoretically, running away). BJJ works.
@@36424567254 Judoka are very skilled grapplers, depends on the school though. But speaking from my own experience, the club where I used to train are very good, BJJ players often rolling with us, made no difference.
Very insightful and informative discussion!
would have liked him to elaborate on why closed fist is better, considering the likelihood of breaking fingers
Ok. Based on what Matt is saying, why not bring in people that practice Aikido in an alive way? There is a style of Aikido where they do practice with aliveness and have competition. Since this all started with Aikido, we should now see if Aikido practiced correctly or realistically works or not. Rokas has established that his style of Aikido is not real. Granted. Let's see if ANY style of Aikido is not real. Is the concept of a standup grappling style that relies on working with your opponents kinetic energy plausible? This is really the question now.
Yep, for some reason, I've not seen any decent research on this channel about other Aikido styles...there is nothing new in martial arts however much people like to rave about how they've modernised stuff to make it work in today's world...go back far enough to the roots of Aikido and 'traditional' martial arts and you will find the principles and applications of techniques that are as applicable to modern day as they were on the battlefield. What I've been taught through Koryu JuJutsu, by an instructor with many years of applying it almost daily in real life, goes beyond anything I was taught in three other 'modern' JuJutsu styles I've trained in before.
Sohrab Kazerooni it’s called tomiki aikido, it does exist, there’s lots of footage on TH-cam.
It’s just as ineffective as all other types of aikido, but it doesn’t even look pretty because there is resistance.
It looks like terrible, terrible judo. Anyone training tomiki aikido would be better served training judo.
@@chriswilcox8977 ikr, it doesnt get more real and alive than warriors trying to kill each other with hand held weapons. all this modern martial arts talk is mostly egotistical wankers having a circle jerk
@@predater5017 On rare occasions, someone rediscovers something already known from the past but most have missed, lost or were never deemed good enough to be told...touch/feel is faster than sight, keep the connection (contact/touch), breaking timing, kuzushi (demolish structure, not balance as it is shown often), distance, no grip (so it's all no-gi...), don't let them get hold, always be the aggressor as there is no self defence...mindset, kata is not application, on and on old teachings, nothing new to see...but yeah, all that traditional stuff is bullshit...or maybe it's because very few have seen decent traditional martial arts and wish to keep saying how shit they are based on incomplete knowledge...easy to diss what you don't know that you don't know.
@@jaymiddleton1782 You should read the history of Tomiki Aikido. The founder, Kenji Tomiki, was a high ranking Judoka. The good news is Rokas is going to do a video analyzing Tomiki training and competition. It will definitely be interesting.
My friend is been doing bjj for 4 years, last week he ask me if we can do a test I got a maker pretending the is a knife so from the time I was attacking until he got controll of me it took him close to 2minutes then we count all the marks I was able to put on his body legs, arms, stomach, face, back etc, 67 marks, so be careful before you go to the ground that was 1 against 1 that s why I think bjj doesnt work on the street .
U are correct.
Luis Mancilla but obviously you didn’t video this test and it’s not on TH-cam everywhere.
@@jaymiddleton1782 no one gives a rats ass about youtube.
what you demonstrated is that knives are lethal. Which everyone should understand. Now try to to the same experiment except he's boxing and you're still stabbing him and see if he can reliably hit you without being hit, to the point he could in good faith affirm he could ko you and walk away to live the next day. Ofc, he'd need to train boxing first for the experiment to make sense though.
But the point is, almost certainly, the answer will be no. So you didn't demonstrate bjj doesn't work, you just demonstrated a skilled (or possibly even not that skilled) knife user will beat almost certainly a skilled unarmed fighter of any kind. Which should be obvious else people wouldn't have fought with weapons in the past, would they?
Dragon749 aikidoka certainly don’t. That’s why they make sure to only upload videos of aikido failing under pressure, and there are no videos of it being used successfully under pressure. Strange.
"You don't use a more inferior method for a more serious circumstance" , beautifully explained.
Training against a resisting partner is absolutely necessary for combat effectiveness. This means practicing full contact free sparring!
Yes, BJJ works and probably the best option if you are police officer or security employee who doesn't want to lose his job or to wrestle your wife or kids. With BJJ you can submit or control a violent person without causing great damage or injury, ironically that is philosophy goal of Aikido.
It's terrible for law enforcement, and it's dangerous to perpetuate this falsehood that bjj is good on the street. Just as the guy that has to be spoon fed now after getting his head stomped while rolling on the ground without his backup.
ayam1maya no, it’s great for LEOs.
Why the hate for jits? You train aikido?
That’s like aikido
@@jaymiddleton1782 I train Jjj which is much more well-rounded than hyperspecialized bjj. That was a real story I mentioned, so the danger in going to the ground off the mat is very real. Training nothing but bjj means incentivizing taking it to the ground because that's where one is most comfortable. You do what you train. That's not going to be overcome by dabbling in a little standup. Jjj is superior for leo's and even military.
ayam1maya JJJ is like aikido or kung fu in that it’s not properly trained and would be useless in a real confrontation.
I haven’t seen any JJJ content that was legitimate, it’s all just compliance training, two-step drills, etc etc
BJJ isn’t great because it’s hyperspecialised, it’s great because the training methodology behind it allows you to use 100% force against a partner who is using 100% force.
In JJJ this doesn’t happen which is why there’s a bunch of footage of JJJ guys getting choked to death by BJJ guys.
It is an interesting interview..
Does BJJ work in the street? Yes it does. That's the simple direct answer. When you start making comparisons with other MA, then there is no be all end all perfect/best martial art. They all have there strengths and weaknesses. All MA training has value.
As a practitioner of many martial arts (karate & BJJ included) the best answer in my opinion is to cross train.
Thanks for the video..
@Jake
The best/elite guys in mma are also super athletes, unlike your average joe on the street.
I don't think that the individual martial arts will ever go away. It's human nature to be diverse.
I think you missed the point. You can make clear comparisons to other martial arts because there are better ways of doing things. What is more effective most of the time, the kung fu monkey paw to the face or the right cross from boxing? What the more effective takedown? The aikido throw or the wrestlers double leg? So yea, some martial arts are absolutely better than others. That's just science.
@Jake
Lol...
@@dragonballjiujitsu
Better or best is subjective... what works for you may not work for me or joe down the road! That's why it's important to diversify.
@@shadowcastre No its not, its easily tested. Its objective when it comes to fighting there are better ways of doing things and not all methods are good.
I'm a gracie student through and through!! Designed for a smaller man to defend himself! Even though I'm not a small man it definitely works. Definitely recommend for everyone
Excellent interview.
Stop abusing «epistemology» word.
Nice interview.
also incorrect use of Ad Hominem, and it was indeed an argument. Great interview in the main.
@@horatioredgreenblue2130 stop abusing ad hominem
thanks for pointing this
BJJ/Wrestling are practised as sports, if you think what you are doing is self defence or it's being sold to you as such you will find out the hard way that it's not. The fact that people cant see this is mind boggling.
grappling is essential for self defense. if someone is on top of you mounted how do you escape? there are movement patterns that you must drill until they are in your muscle memory that will allow even small weaker people to get back to standing (so they can run away) when a stronger heavier person is on top of them.
@@matthewg4882 Yeah it can be trained, I do incorporate some floor grappling in my classes. But if you want to learn self defence, take self defence classes, if you want to train bjj train that, but it's not a dedicated self defence system
@@matthewg4882 It definitely is crucial to have that training in case you get taken to the ground, but if you're in a real fight and you choose to go to the ground, you're asking to die. Either the guy's friend comes out of the toilet and smashes your skull in, or he pulls a knife you didn't see and stabs you.
dominic mccree ... said the guy who doesn’t train BJJ
the sport mma guys like all these bjj retards never been in real fights or military combat where weapons are always used and your attacker never ever goes by sport rules or any rules. Most people i encounter takes out a basebal bat, a knife and tire iron and the worst i've encountered are federal pigs who surround you with pistols while you are unarmed then they practice their martial arts on you tripping you while their gang points their pistols on you. that's reality. in the military you are faced with suppressive fire from machine guns and rpgs or IEDS. IN JUNGLE WARFARE anything goes and if you end up in the ground you better have a weapon or you will be cut in pieces or shot
Great interview
Great video, thanks for sharing
Thanks, glad you liked it
Why do people get into this debate, if you think that your style works whatever it is, good for you. The cold hard TRUTH is that one day (hopefully not) you'll be in a street fight. You'll receive your answer as far as if "your style works" when you're in a fight. As far as me I'm done having this debate I train muaythai and bjj and I feel confident and with that confidence I'm in the right path moving forward.
Unfortunately, I've used my MMA training in 4 altercations... And that is outside of my work as a security guard. I lost track of how many altercations I've been in while on duty. My point is, I survived all of those just fine. Most "worst case scenario" type fights that involve weapons and/or multiples... Seem to be avoidable by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Have some awareness: awareness of yourself and of your surroundings. Know where the bad spots in town are.
Every martial arts work it depends who uses it=Facts
@Arctic Ruffner Well it depends on you if u can use your art properly in a fight
@Arctic Ruffner oh yes i heard about that stuff but it isnt considerd as a "martial art" why? the founder of that is just a guy that watched plenty of kung fu movies and made his on style 100% exposed, what i mean it depends on the martial artist for example like when to styles fought each other and kept debating who is the infrior and tge superior like karate vs judo and the judo guy won it means that the martial artist who is representing the martial art is more better that his opponent
@Arctic Ruffner By the way that slap jutsu is just one of the most useless styles ive ever watched like taichi there are also martial artist that teaches fake styles like jake masen. To be honest when this channel yet martial arts journey i completly doubt does this style wont work in an actual fight and finally he realized that he was teaching an unefective style
this is another great discussion.
It makes me roll my eyes whenever I hear the "there's no rules in da streetz, we train for real situations" argument from kenpo guys and "self defense" guys. it's ridiculous and laughable.
There are no rules in the streets, but if that's used as a reason to stagnate or lack pressure testing, then that's a whole problem.
Kempo that doesn't pressure test is a failure of its own mission....
Great !
Outstanding points
Thank you both gent:s Thank you Matt ! !
Good video. I completely agree with his take on the importance of aliveness and the idea that body mechanics are universal. That concept is actually taught in some traditional martial arts. Its essentially body movement. One caveat though if self defense is ones goalm There are some techniques that cannot be trained with aliveness. Eye gouges and groin shots for example cannot be trained that way which is also why they're often banned in competitions. Also, delivering useful strikes to those targets isnt as simple or as easy as people think. Timing and distance still apply. Techniques like that have to be trained with full compliance so as to avoid permanent injury. So a combination of methods have to be used. If you only train in one method, you lose out on the techniques available to you. So it's not an either/or condition but an 'and'. Also, self defense is completely contextual. You have to be flexible enough in mind and body to adapt to those conditions. Having only one way of moving is as dangerous as having a closed mind.
Matt, please tell how you have handled the real situations in the street ?
I wanted to say this was a great, useful video. But was it? In some ways it was, but then in others I think it unnecessarily and unproductively bashed on certain things. It attacks traditional martial arts (that are grounded in either warfare or healthy spiritual practices or both). It attacks religion (you know, the same religions that helped to positively mold whole civilizations and create the very academia that eventually led to the science that Matt Thornton seems to value the approach of). It is possible to have an authentic approach to traditional martial arts and to religion, faith, traditions and philosophy in general. I do not know Matt Thornton personally, but from this video the person seems to speak from the empirical perspective.
What the above means to say is that this individual believes what is observed through the senses and experiences. This is quite useful a perspective in science, testing in science-related medical and engineering fields and physics-based fields (which martial arts relates to through the study of kinetics and biological physics). However, it is limited in utility in a more metaphysical sense. What proves that our senses and experiences are not fooling us or that we're experiencing anything real at all? Illusions of both "magic" and nature and the mind itself trick us into believing things that are not true or at least make us believe that something appears to be true even though we know it should not be true. Often we don't know for sure what is the truth. The observer can affect the observation and often even the observed phenomena themselves. Bringing religions as a whole into question simply because many religious adherents either don't dig deep or are dishonest about it with themselves and others is a fallacious argument in of itself.
I would urge fellow skeptics like myself or like this coach in this video to remember that just because we're skeptical of something, doesn't mean it doesn't have worth or truth to it. And, just because a particular test in a particular situation shows something to be true or untrue doesn't mean that it carries on to all situations at all times. To assume that without good reason is an improper form of inductive reasoning.
There's nothing wrong with making arguments of various kinds, etc etc so long as one remembers to do so properly. So, if the argument is from logic, be logical. If the argument is from a story, give supporting evidence for the story and, when possible, show that photo or video etc. If the argument is from reasoning of a different kind, properly utilize that reasoning. However, don't make assumptions or if you must, just remember what assumptions you are making and why. This is a problem among many professionals in science-related fields. They assume because some theory or model or previous experiment showed something that it *must* be true and don't even further test it or they do test it but in the same context over and over. They don't even think it could be false or wonder if it were circumstantial and that maybe they're just seeing the tree and not the whole forest. The coach in this video seems to get this when talking about how BJJ could be good for someone but then seems to forget this when bashing on religion.
The coach in this video could have just stuck to what he believed works (which I thought he made a lot of good points around) but he seemed like he had a chip on his shoulder and had somewhat of a grudge against religion in general. I just wanted to make sure to share my strong opinion that one should not conflate reason and skepticism with anti-religious or anti-traditional views.
Tletna To long. Didn't read
Hear, hear.
Tletna what specifically did he say about religion that upset you?
Good points!
Great talking points by Mr Thornton.
Mega mega interesting, I'm a kickboxer and Japanese jiu-jitsu practitioner, just love the Art
Ok, I went without my nap and watched this through...
I typed out a massive reply but decided it was pointless.
Many assumptions are made by Matt and Rokas about traditional martial arts which are not accurate in all cases, even if they are accurate in some. Until any of us have true and decent experience of any other martial art styles than ones we do have decent experience in, many comments and beliefs are just bullshit.
Nothing in martial arts is new. What people see as new is just the old stuff that was never passed down correctly being rediscovered.
I have trained for over 40yrs including first Wing Chun and then WTF TKD and now Shotokan. In that 40yrs I have had to defend myself only once and I reverted to my first art Wing Chun, stepping into his centre line and throwing a Tan Sau block and a punch at the same time with the other hand knocking him out. My point is that I was only training for self-defence i have wasted years in training! I train to keep fit and believe this applies to most martial artists., physically and mentally
Rokas - "How does BJJ work in the street?"
Coach - "I'll give you a detailed answer... {Goes on a 40 minute rant on how Aikido and Wing Chun suck balls}... You see?"
Rokas - "Yes, that makes perfect sense!"
LOL
I've seen taekwondo work on the streets. Because I was the one punching the dude. Hell even my brother dislocated a guys jaw when he was attacked. But I totally see how the art needs to evolve. I think the thing we need is a sparring sytem like jiujitsu has. No stupid rules. Maybe one day I can train some serious BJJ.
I didnt even know this guy existed til i watched your interviews with him , and theyre all amazing ! the Top mount one has me so close to finally trying BJJ, im still too in love with muay thai to be able to sacrifice any time for it but im mega curious now!
1. I have a lot of respect for Matt's martial accomplishments and the work he shares. Good stuff.
2. There is a bunch of good information and true information in this video.
3. Of course BJJ works in the street....depending how you define "work."
4. Matt's hatred of religion is plain. This hatred stains his entire worldview and should have nothing to do with BJJ.
5. Do not mistake this video for anything other than a marketing piece masquerading as quasi science.
6. Matt's erroneous premise, which is the foundation of all that follows: sparring/sporting systems are the standard of all self protection. This premise alone is very dangerous....the very thing he warned about himself.
7. I understand some will take this as an unfair attack on their own "high priest" and "religion"....which it is not. Please see #1.
James Owens 4. What specifically did he say that makes you think he hates religion?
6. I think the point he’s making is if you can’t beat someone in a 1 on 1 environment where there are rules to protect you and keep you safe - how do you expect to beat someone in the absolute chaos of a street encounter?
@@jaymiddleton1782 Hey Jay. As to #4, I believe his views about religion are clear, particularly around the 23 minute mark forward. Trying to prop up your own religion...atheism...by using the martial arts is weak and self defeating. It is very indulgent and has no place in making claims about self protection efficacy.
As to #6, no self protection teacher should be teaching their students that the primary goal is to learn how to "beat" an opponent in a sterile, symmetrical, rule enforced, 1 on 1 environment. The assumption should be that your opponent is bigger and stronger than you, there may be more than one opponent, and that your opponent may be armed. That should be the constant assumption of all self protection (not sport) training. Sparring is great....but it only teaches you sparring skills at the end of the day. To promote that as THE standard for all self protection skill evaluation is making a huge error, IMV.
Happy new year.
James Owens yeah I think you’re projecting in a big way. He lists a bunch of things in the traditional martial arts, like anecdotal evidence and arguments from authority, and he’s drawing a parallel with a preacher describing genesis as fact. There *is* a parallel there, it seems fair to me.
Atheism isn’t a religion. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods.
How can you expect to beat multiple attackers who may be armed with weapons and they’re bigger than you, when you can’t beat someone your own size in a 1v1 situation with rules ?
You sound like you legitimately don’t know what you’re talking about and I don’t think you train. What do you train?
@@jamesowens9710 #1 way to spot an idiotic xtian, they say atheism is a "religion".
I challenge point 5, I think this is what he would say if he was trying to get to the bottom of things. That doesn't mean anything he says is gospel, just that it is sincere, and you, by making point 5, are saying otherwise
Well, I wanted to listen intently to what he had to offer. Perhaps some insight I hadn’t thought of. I’m always open to the thoughts of others. But what he did was did the “fall back argument” of UFC or MMA etc... The reason why he and others are losing credibility is because people have had experience with using ground fighting in real situations.
Not only did it not work, but was discovered, as anyone who actually understand Budo (war); is that in a real situation it’s about tactical reasoning. If you didn’t have a mouth piece, ref, agreed upon rules, padded floor, octagon fencing in which you practice in regularly, cell phones or cameras operating, the guy you were fighting didn’t have his buddy around because he was peeing in the moment instead having your back, no one in the room who liked your opponent, your opponent didn’t ha e a full set of teeth, fight or flight instilled in him, or even just vaguely the slightest bit of common sense inside of him, I’d bet you’d have a slight bit of advantage. But only if none of those things existed in the situation.
This guy is selling a bill of goods. He’s peddling a lie. BJJ or ANY ground fighting system is absolutely, positively, the worst thing you should learn if you are concerned about personal safety.
Having said that, I love watching BJJ, love MMA and UFC. I think the guys that do it are tough. Skilled, highly skilled at what they do. And I wouldn’t want to compete against them in ring cause I for sure would lose. But I don’t care about competition. I care about my family. I care about those I teach and instruct. I’m not trying to make a buck. I am trying to survive and help those whom I train survive. They aren’t buff people. With 3% body fat. They are normal people who really are worried about their protection. And honesty is important. Even in Aikido it has to be honest.
What I’ve seen in this video? Was incredibly dishonest.
Arctic Ruffner They explode because of marketing, not because they work. Years ago people bought Charles Atlas body building books because of a picture of a body builder kicking sand in a weak guy’s face. So no body wanted to end up like that weak guy. Same kinda deal. So yeah, it’s exploding, but those who seek wisdom and truth know better.
Gangstarji Where? I owned a night club. I had MMA bouncers. One got taken out with the guy he was on the ground wrestling withs girlfriend with the heel of one her pumps. The. Her girlfriend that was with her had to be pulled off by another bouncer while me and one of my bartenders had to deal with the 3 of them. I got the guy’s girlfriend off of him while her boyfriend wound up biting his shoulder. Needless to say the bouncer was messed up after, but obviously survived.
Let me say this plainly. I really question how stupid the public has become. How utterly gullible it has become. This goes beyond martial arts honestly. That a human being can get so caught up into marketing of something, they abandon all logical thought. You should be able to discern a simple concept as the fact it’s dangerous to be off of your feet
Arctic Ruffner Put then in a situation where they weren’t trained for it. The fact you cannot use reason makes you incredibly dangerous to yourself
Arctic Ruffner I don’t know what trolling means. All I am saying is, that men who’s lives were in danger created these hand to hand combat styles. The source is far greater than the bastardized source.
The reason traditional martial arts are not revered is because no generation we are a part of has experienced real life war, real life life ending danger. So without it, you do not know. Even with those who are in the military now, that I’ve trained personally. And let me state it this way. I’ve trained Mossad, CIA, FBI, SWAT, and a few officers here and there. They aren’t interested in BJJ, UFC, or any of that. These guys were in the field. They didn’t seek out weak Aikido either. They are men who understand war. Understand real inherent danger.
Listen to me, all of you listen to me. It comes down to the individual. If you want to train BJJ or the equivalent I am all for it. I think it’s great for sport. You can, even if you are a soft person, develop skills for a ring situation. I think it’s great for a persons self esteem and growth. I am 100% an advocate for all styles.
Having said that. In no way shape or form is it realistic for an actual situation. Could it work! Yes, but the danger factors far outweigh the practical application. In other words, BJJ is strictly for sport and personal growth. That’s the end of it. And I ADVOCATE THAT.
Having said that as well, many had gotten into Aikido because of Seagal years ago. Only to find that the dojo they were attending wasn’t teaching reality either. It was teaching technique, but not reality. I was fortunate to have lived in an area to where I had a choice. I personally had events in my life that led me to focusing on martial arts for survival, not for sport. I was hurt BADLY as a kid.
Unlike both of these people in this video, I have trained in BJJ, Karate, and a soft form of Aikido before a Budo version of it. So I can speak with authority on all of this. BJJ was something I only did briefly because I knew it wouldn’t work.
Arctic Ruffner Okay, gloves are off. Tell me, in a situation such as a fight in a night club, or at a store etc, why it’s a brilliant idea to take them to the ground.
BJJ does work of course, there is a place and time for everything, and being able to gain superior position and use joint manipulations, knowing that you can take a bigger stronger guy if goes one on one with him, is a very powerful tool to have, but for the street context, BJJ should never be your go to for obvious reasons.
I believe a lot of young men obsess about self-defense because we go through the public school system where the underclass' children are thrown in with middle class kids and in the playground physicality and aggression is encouraged and hailed. As we mature we realize that the tough kids often grow up to be massive losers but the trauma is still there. If the child matures into a blue collar or even underclass adult, he'll still be living in a social environment where physicality is emphasized relatively greatly. If you're 5'5 with a middle class brain, spending your years obsessing about toughness is a waste; on your best day you can put up a fight against a big guy who can slap you down with one quarter of your training while you could have spent that same time polishing your strengths whatever they are. I don't know a single person whose life was ended by violence or who was crippled by violence they could have used martial arts to prevent. When you have your life together, it is not really an issue. When you derive confidence from honing your inborn talents, nobody gets under your skin anymore because you're an adult man and know who you are. Most fights happen because young guys don't have strong enough egos yet and they are willing to throw their lives down the drain because of a word or touch. You should think of that touch as a seagull's excretions falling on your ice cream on a hot day. Sometimes that can happen but going after the seagull will simply waste more of your limited time and energy; accept that such things happen and go on with worthy projects. Our world is a world of a million attractions; if martial arts feel great to you, that's awesome but don't allow any insecure dullard to pressure you into thinking that your life is incomplete if you're getting good at somewhere else. The people that do this tend to be similar to people who abuse steroids; they cannot handle other people's talents so they build the tough guy fantasy in their head to cope and think themselves geniuses for figuring out a shortcut to social dominance that does not apply in the adult world.
A very small part of bjj is useful in the street. How to stand up inder pressure maybe some chokes and how to gain positions.
80%+ is useless
Then you aren't a very creative grappler.
Hans Yolo Or maybe getting punched, slammed, kicked while on the ground, or facing more than on guy, maybe there’s a weapon, all that shit nullifies bjj...
It is hard to punch and kick when your opponent is on top of you.
A sure fired sign a self-defense/street fighting instructor doesn't know his craft? He spends 42 minutes and 28 seconds explaining how he does.
Yes, I think your statement is true. He trains more then I type.
OldNatty what’s a street fighting instructor?
Before you answer tell me whether or not you do aikido.
I do not "do Aikido". I once did. A "street fighting instructor" is someone who has legitimate knowledge of street fighting and can teach others how to survive it.
OldNatty and what’s your beef with this guy? Did you watch the whole video before you decided he doesn’t know anything?
What do you currently train? Is aikido your only background?
Aikido is not my background. Took some years ago as a kid. I train anything and everything that I feel will give me the best chance in the street. My beef is a head lock in the gym, cage, and street are all different events. One should not train aliveness. One should train in reality. It's not about what art works. Arts are just tool boxes we go to for techniques that give us the best chance to survive in a real situation. If you're talking reality you don't go to dead patterns. Your training should elevate to an even higher level of threat/reality.
as long the other guy doesnt have a friend to kick the hell out of your head, it should work.
Hi Rokas, I’m enjoying the videos that you put out, so keep up the good work 😊
I do have a question that I would like to ask if that’s ok?
Basically, a lot of your recent videos have focused on “aliveness” as a key tenet of functional self defence, which makes perfect sense. My question is around the self defence systems like Krav Maga.
While I understand that they lack the competitive / sparring element that other sporting MAs do, they bcertainly include drills that are “alive”. They’re just alive in a different sense; with full body armour, aggression and multiple attackers.
Things like Krav Maga get wailed on by the MMA community, and as someone who does BJJ (not Krav), I’m just interested to know whether you, or others you’re around atm, consider it to be “alive”. If so, why does it get such a hard time in the MMA community?
Sorry for the long question! Hopefully you’ll get around to it at some point - happy new year!
This guy sure "thinks" he knows more than he does .
No, he is just stating facts. He has the background to back up everything he is saying.
@@dragonballjiujitsu about martial arts maybe. Epistemology not so much.
Bilbo Baggins what specifically did he say?
If he’s offended your religious beliefs and you’re about to talk about epistemology, then be careful.
Mexican Martial Arts is 100x better
Es mejor que bjj
Yoshida Yui ameridote is the most lethal art and the most effective, yet it is the easiest to learn 😂
@@thaistick2412 stomp the groin
@@thaistick2412 bjj does'nt work on the street and muay thai too
Grand Master Jesse.
Great interview thanks
Many good points made! Very humble reasoning, and yes Aikido does have a lot of the types mentioned here. There are exceptions, but I found that most of the time people understand their incompetence. Ignorance is bliss. ;)
Hearing him talk about religion is like hearing a stereotypical traditional martial artist talking about BJJ or MMA. I think the video would be better if he would stick to his area of expertise, which is martial arts.
You must be a butt-hurt Buddhist... or a cranky Christian! Or maybe a mad Muslim? Pissed-off pagan? Judging Jew? Hateful Hindu!?
Does your belief system work on the street? With some training can it be used effectively by an average person?
Which teaching or mindset , put into practice, is the most beneficial for life in general and training in bjj?
Survival of the fittest?
Or
Do to others as you would have them do to you?
Which of these two mindsets, is better when put into practice, while training with a partner at a gym?
Which of these mindsets should a BJJ "good guy" display in an altercation?
Which of these mindsets does a "bad guy" display in an altercation?
@@chaos_omega how many hours have you spent researching spiritualism, healing, meditation, philosophy etc.?
Religion is exactly the same than every quackery out there.
What specifically did he say regarding religion that you found to be ignorant or illinformed?
i was with him up until the religion part.. i dont think he had a good understanding of the fundamentals of the bible or religion, there are many things that can be traced back and accurately reported in the bible. and prophecy coming true even today. adam and eve being a "metaphor" would negate the entirety of the bible. it would serve no purpose.
and i agree with his point about preachers lying and decieving people.. thats why there is something called "false religion" just like you can have fake cops.. or fake doctors. does that mean every doctor is a fake? of course not.
@@indiegamesonly6617 He sounds like he likes to take a very scientific approach to things. A scientific approach typically produces reproducible results and, importantly, identifies when things are not correct/working and changes them. Many aspects of religion cannot be tested in this manner which is why it demands faith. BJJ is great because you can develop a new technique and try it out when rolling. If it doesn't work then you will change it until it does work or abandon it and move on so its almost a scientific approach.
There is no scientific evidence for the existence of an Adam and Eve. In fact there are mounds of evidence against their existence. And you are right, without them, no original sin... no reason for forgiveness, no reason for jesus. So with zero evidence for them the only logical conclusion is that all forms of abrahamic religions are wrong. As for his knowledge of the bible, he seemed more knowledgeable than 99% of christians.
@@Blurdage There is a fair amount of evidence that Jesus existed, however, I'm always amused that a guy born in the Middle East more than 2000 years ago is depicted as being white in his appearance.
@@herrmayhem1915 If there is a fair amount of evidence id be interested to see it. My understanding is that there is zero direct evidence of a man named jesus. The 1st "evidence" i am aware of is the discredited writings of josephus(93CE) where he was clearly added into the writings at a later date as the sentence structure and tone changes for the single mention about him, then it goes back into the normal tone. The next evidence is by the writers of the gospels years later again(around 140CE).
Great conversation.
The part about the preacher who says Genesis is literally to the congregation, but say it is metaphor to an evolutionary 24:18 scientist, I guess made me think of my late friend, Dr. Donald Chittick and his book THE CONTROVERSY. In the book, he mentioned the preacher who said the Bible was unreliable, but the preacher apparently preached, as if it were true, because he noticed people got more out of religion. Ironically, Dr. Chittick was a scientist with a PhD in chemistry from Oregon state, who believed in creation, he also taught at one time at George Fox College which later became George fox university. I wish Matt Thornton could’ve had a discussion with Dr. Chittick on science.
Sorry to have to Say this but the problem with this "Martial art Journey" guy is only with himself. He fail on Aikido not because Aikido fails on him, but because this guy fails with himself....and that's the cause of all these vídeos. He fails on a Tradicional style because he's not a fighter. Looking at his technique you can see that. He's not interested about the efectiveness of the styles, he runaway from tradicional martial Styles because he d'ont know how to fight with those techniques. Probably he runaway later from jiujitsu too..?! He don't know even the most elementary things about his own art on history of early Japan. He d'ont know, for example, in Japan, on the early times, jujutsu(Japanese Jujutsu) Was an "exercise" of fighting, not a style used on fight and war!! Early Jujutsu Was used on that times to know how to "cover" some aspects of fighting on local/Ground positions and tuning LOCALY that on a Batlefield hypothesis...! Why? Because the so called SAMURAI ART it Was not Jujutsu but a mixture of all types of moves. If you mix the three major schools of Japanese TRADICIONAL martial arts , Karaté, Aikido and Jujutsu you can find some visual movements of that "Lost art". It Was not Jujutsu. Modern Jujutsu or later BJJ, is a business and a form of marketing when applied to sport, like so called MMA too.
So, now to you "Martial Artes Journey":
Aikido d'ont fail to you....You fail with yourself. Assume that and bring some respect to yourself. Have shame.
This guy was a highly trained Aikido teacher. He knows Aikido and why it is a non optimal thing to train for self defense. MMA is showing what works and what doesnt work when dealing with other trained fighters. BJJ is one of those things that works. To be more precise, submission grappling is essential to be a well rounded fighter. It can be CACC wrestling, sambo, etc but in your self defense training curriculum you need something that focuses on how to use leverage/joint manipulation and blood/air chokes when fighting on the ground. You also need to understand the clinch and takedowns and close and distant striking. Lacking any of these areas will make you incomplete and leave you vulnerable. Where the fight takes place on the street will determine what style you focus on. For instance, if you are 1 on 1 it would be a good idea to take the fight to the ground and finish there, this requires wrestling/judo/sambo to get to the ground and CACC/BJJ to finish the fight. Striking is dangerous as you can easily break a hand or get caught with a haymaker. On the flipside sometimes you dont get to decide where the fight takes place, so you need to understand how to get out of a clinch or get up when someone is mounted on you. Aikido does not prepare you defensively in this way.
@@matthewg4882 "a highly trained Aikido teacher" you said??! ok...really? you saw his vídeos sparring with MMA guys...? you saw his moves and trying techniques...? bad stances, NOT USED IN AIKIDO; movements of resistence, NOT USED IN AIKIDO; bad entrys(no timing), NOT USED IN AIKIDO, bad...very,very bad balance, NOT USED IN AIKIDO, erratic positions, no centre lines and completely absence of alignment, NOT USED IN AIKIDO...! really...???! ok...and you read what i said in my previous comment? and did you understand? i mean...what i said it´s HISTORY...FACTS? Not sociology...you really read? ok...and about your opinions, no comments needed...only images:
th-cam.com/video/wmYTFmV_IX8/w-d-xo.html
@@ricardoalmeida341 that's because you can't use aikido training in an mma fight. The stance is bad, the movements are useless. This dude has been practicing aikido for 13 years and lived with and was trained by a highly regarded aikido master. If aikido was effective you'd see it in mma but you don't.
@@matthewg4882 We talk about the streets, not MMA...MMA, like i already said it´s a business with rules that clearly favor grapling, like all know, including BJJ practitioners and that is not a real situation. I think it´s better if you read what i said in the comments and see the vídeos before you try to explain things in abstract with a lot of MMA indoctrination.
@@ricardoalmeida341 lol why do you think suddenly what works in mma won't work in the streets? Did you even watch the video? They debunk why that's a faulty way of thinking. Escaping mount or a double leg take down works the same in the octagon or on the streets
The world was created, not spontaneously.
Marlinspike Mate CITATION NEEDED
Jay Middleton 2nd Law of Thermodynamics?
Marlinspike Mate oh no, not this again.
Jay Middleton : (
Marlinspike Mate well if you’re pulling the sad face let’s talk it out.
You’re implying the world was deliberately created. You’re saying the 2nd law supports this idea?
No, it doesn’t. There’s nothing in the 2nd law that implies the earth was deliberately created.
You might be saying that entropy means the current scientific model is impossible - I’m assuming entropy is what you’re talking about when you’re bringing up the 2nd law.
This isn’t your thought, though, is it? You didn’t come up with this. You’ve just been told by some Christian apologist that the 2nd law proves god and you’ve chosen to believe that.
Well I can quickly correct your miseducation with the final sentence of the 2nd law which goes a little something like “... within a *closed* system.”
We don’t live in a closed system, so entropy isn’t an issue. Furthermore there’s nothing about entropy that stops one area of the universe becoming more ordered as another area becomes chaotic.
Just quickly google the second law to make sure I’m right. The crux of it is that it’s talking about closed systems. We aren’t in a closed system. We are in a solar system.
And even if the 2nd law did contradict cosmology (which it does not) it’s still not evidence that the world was created.
So, again, if you want to say the world was created then CITATION NEEDED
Just a curiosity question, why do so many bjj guys say they don't like Japanese juijitsu and it's not functional, but Japanese juijitsu/judo is the only reason bjj exists it just seems to not make sense if their art came from an unfunctional style how it would be functional. I do understand though many Japanese juijitsu schools dont spar/roll or is there a difference when they talk about traditional Japanese juijitsu and Japanese juijitsu. Just genuinely curious I myself practice Japanese juijitsu but it is pressure rested with sparing and we also practice all the judo stuff in with the ground work. I've also gone to a Gracie gym before and practice there it was a very similar experience to my Japanese juijitsu gym just minus the judo throws. Not tryna throw shade at bjj it's a great art wanted to just ask an opinion of bjj guys if there's a difference or there's a reason, I also consider that maybe my Japanese juijitsu school is just unique and probably closer to a judo school that actually spars except we also do groundwork sparing, maybe my school might be an exception to the majority of schools.
Not to be long winded. One of the funniest things I heard.