For those who are wondering where the discussion about Pencak Silat disappeared you can find me and Ramsey Dewey discuss Pencak Silat here: th-cam.com/video/YdUxZ826KcY/w-d-xo.html
This is the most idiotic comment i have ever heard Japanese ju-jutsu you only train and no pressure Do you Know why they dont use it in full contact and under presure ? people die and its one of the major reasons Judo exist as Ju-jutsu , is a martial art created to kill , disable and hurt some one the most effective way . not some sport element , ju-jutsu has no rules. you want to rip some ones eyes out you do it . you need to break some ones kneecaps you do it . There is a reason why Ju-jutsu is called the mother of all martial arts ( asian that is ) and that only competive forms are sparing , katas and fighting sysem . You go full contact many people will break limbs and some will die . Any self respecting martial arts practitioner knows this , it like bajonet fighting and shooting at targets in real life people die . So that also awnsers your question its just training , I bet you dont even know what martial arts are and what a self defense sport is . or even the origins of martial arts or what european martial arts are. Here is a hint they are for war not for sport. a sport has rules preventing lasting or injuries. martial arts have none . nada zero null.
About Aikido it think the same as one of my former Sifu said about Kung Fu: "Kung Fu is one of the greatest Martial Arts for Self Defense. But, if you get in a real Fight, it is useless aside your trained Reflexes and Body. It strengh lies in avoiding that Fight in the First place." Then he taught me what not to do in a fight because it might hurt the other one really bad - stuff like "Do not rip his eyes out of his Skull" and such. Still, in all the Streetfights I got back then, that Training did not help aside beeing physically trained. And neither did the Streetfights help me in Training or the Martial Arts Competions. As I could stand up pretty average in the first one, I was struggling in the second one and utterly incompetent in the third one. But, what changed was that the first ones, the Streetfights, got less rapidly and my Life got much more peaceful even though I did not change my Enviroment and most habits at all. So, if you go for "practical use in a combat Situation on the Streets" - I guess it is useless. But, I never seen an Aikidoka in need of such a Use of their Martial Art. Keep in mind: If someone is weaker, there is no reason to fight. If one is stronger, there is no reaon in fighting. If one is as strong as you are, you both will understand that there is no Reason in fighting each other.
I give it C+ for these reasons : 1. When you are on the ground, you can't run. 2. When you are held, you can't run. 3. When you can't abandon your love ones, you can't run. 4. When there is no space, you can't run. 5. When you are slower,, running is useless.
Ever so casually, Icy Mike gave us one of the best thoughts about self-defense: "You need to be really amazing at one specific thing, and be good enough at everything else to funnel people to that".
Greco-Roman is fantastic for a street fight. If you can't get the guy to the ground, you BJJ won't mean a whole lot. A suplex on the concrete is game over. My buddy threw a dude over the bar in a scrap. A quick hip toss and the fight was done. But, it all depends. You can clipped with a hook, knee, upper cut, etc...on the way in.
I agree 100% that one of your best self-defense skills is verbal de-escalation. I've worked in the military, high-risk security and VIP protection and in all areas verbal de-escalation has played the biggest role. As a trainer, I used to tell new guys that the best martial art was a verbal judo class. You can't lose a fight that doesn't start. You also can't get sued for it. People don't think about it, but if you beat the crap out of a guy and then the civil court finds out that you've studied ten different martial arts and fought amateur MMA...things don't look quite so rosy for you if you didn't make every effort to de-escalate first.
Does that include a man intent on assaulting a woman? I’m probably wrong but since they are mostly about power and control and almost always nothing to do with sexual desire verbal de-escalation is probably unlikely. Especially since in this situation you may be 3/4 of the way past deep doo doo before you even realize you’re in deep doo doo.
Problem is: psychopathic predators don't "escalate". So you won't have an opportunity to "de-escalate". If you are still talking, violence is not warranted. If you're attacked, defending yourself is not "violence"
I'm 70 years old. I currently hold Black Belts in Taekwon-Do, and Shotokan Karate and have 25 years of Yang style Taichi Chuan. I joined organized martial arts when I was in my early 40's. I did so for exercise. Having said that I started fighting when I was around 10 years old. School yard fights, back alley scraps and later parking lot fights when the bars closed. I had many many fights in my early 20's and 30's. I have an Anxiety Disorder that manifests itself as anger. Consequentially I ended up in prison in my early 20's. But that is another story. I have been beaten so severely that my own father didn't recognize me. In my early 40's I decided to start with organized martial arts for exercise. And first started playing Tai Chi Chuan and then gravitated to Taekwon-Do and Katate with a bit of Judo thrown in. I found that organized martial arts helped me with my anxiety which in turn helped me with the anger issues. OK. But I never viewed, and still do not view, organized martial arts as a form of self-defense other than how it helps me emotionally. Organized Martial Arts from what I've seen is concerned with rules and is generally sports orientated. Which, I suppose, is the the most effective form of self defense. "Defending oneself from our greatest enemy which is the one that lives inside of us." But that is "waxing philosophical". As a martial arts instructor I have taught self defense classes. But those have nothing to do with any type of organized Martial Arts. Self defense is defending yourself. It is fast, dirty and get out of there as quickly as possible. And it is not "fighting". Do what you have to/need to, to get out of the situation. If possible do not allow your assailant to grab onto you but if they do you need to eye gouge, bite, or stab them with whatever is at hand. The second step of self defense is "Don't put yourself in the position to get hurt in the first place." That is the second step because the first step in 'self defense' is learning to believe that you are actually worthy and therefore you deserved to be defended and take care of yourself. Don't put yourself in harms way. As I mentioned I've fought, I've fought hard, I've kicked and bit and been kicked and bitten. I've run away to fight another day. People need to stop confusing organized Martial Arts as self defense. There is no "tapout" when you get assaulted in an alley. There is no ref or corner judge or coach.
One of the reasons my school doesn't teach tournament sparring - muscle memory trained in specific rules and level of force will not help you if you are fighting against it when you need it. Sure we spar and tag each other decently wearing pads so we don't serious damage, but otherwise we keep it only organized in the sense of standard dojang traditions - strength, cardio building, forms, defense techniques - but otherwise it can be pretty improvisory in application when we play around.
@@harryohrn6051 I took a college class in self defense and the instructor swore on shotokan. He had a dojo with a partner. Some of the SD was good. They mock attack a student in the parking lot but he was warned against it, because they got reported..lol not in my class prior classes. He was a former police officer. Try CBD and or anxiety meds. Some try the real herb in low doses..CBTs for anxiety are secondary.. You won't win any tournaments. It is may help you get out and run for help or cover. If you go toe to toe an old guy like me will lose anyway..you gotta break something and split. If they grab you work with it for the next move. Thinking of signing up again but everything is expensive..
@@harryohrn6051is muy Thai of any value? How abouts kenpi? I think boxing is of value, but I don't like the dancing, around. I don't like the ducking punches. I am so short if they catch me ducking they will just jump on top of me push me down or something dirty. I also hate the ethnic pride bull.
As a former Wrestler with 11+ years of experience, I think one of our biggest issues in a self defense situation is how vulnerable we can become to outside interference in an actual street fight. If you are getting in a fight, chances are there are going to be more that just you and your opponent there. There is a high likelihood that as soon as you take a guy down and start clubbing him with your fists (we don't know what punching is), his friends are gonna come in and kick you square in your head, and next thing you know you are getting jumped. While I think this is a pretty universal weakness in grappling in general, I think other martial arts/ self defense systems are more equipped to deal with something like that. If we had to rank the best SUPPLIMENTARY martial arts, I think wrestling and a lot of grappling arts would rank pretty high, but by themselves, there are a lot of dangerous holes for a self defense situation.
ya I got jumped after I hip tossed a dude and was on top ground and pounding his friend came up and kicked me in the face big issue then got jumped so personal experience but its true
I had this exact thing happen to me. I had tripped a guy and got on top of him and instantly got kicked in the throat by his friends was a terrible situation to be in lol
If I percieve more than one person, thats when the pen or pencil in my pocket comes out.. one on one, if the guy doesnt have grappling experience, he is toast.
the biggest issue is the slow thinking in play, you decided bare hands while you got car keys on your pocket in the first place, a pen or pencil can do it too. always look out for anything is the key, you can even find a brick to bash their head. theres a reason why i always carry a bag with only 1 book with me so i can block sharp objects (its a habit, i came from a city with a school war tradition who fights with sharp weapons) i did taekwondo and boxing, but only a fool fight bare hands in the street you just simply do not do that (but who am i to say such things i knew about punching people first before doing any martial arts so maybe its just another habit)
@@spacey9707 my FIRST thought when I am about to throw down in a street is always "does this guy have friends and or weapons and if so how do I neutralize this?"... sometimes the art of talking is best lol. but i'm prepared to do the worst, to ensure my or my loved ones safety, so talking is my preferred route.. for BOTH our sakes.
I have a real life example regarding boxing and wrestling. Two friends were involved a fighting vs a larger group of people (sort of self-defense situation, as they may or may not have had option to run away). One was trained boxing, one was trained wrestling. One on one, the wrestler would destroy the boxer, but in that fight, the boxer was unharmed (knocked out few attackers in fact), the wrestler was badly injured because he took the fight to ground (he knocked one guy out, but was beaten by the the group). If there are multiple people involved, don't go down ground.
@@TyGosketch I didn't know I have super power to make reality. I was talking to real person face to face, and we touched fists. You can choose to believe me or not, after all, I'm only a random dude on the internet.
Was boxer a golden gloves champ with some brain cells? Was wrestler a JV wrestler who couldn't get a starting spot to save his life. Here's another story for you. Had 2 friends one was a folk style wrestler other guy did muay Thai. Muay Thai guy got mobbed and brought down by 5 dudes got the shit kicked out of him. The wrestler hit a few dudes with the ground knocked some of them out. They tried mobbing the wrestler but since getting up off the ground and escaping is a required skill he was able to fight off the group.
This was so easy to watch. I started it without looking at the length and about 20 min in realized what I signed up for lol I am happy that I wrestled in HS for 4 yrs and that coupled with Army Combatives training has always made me at least a little more confident in my ability to defend myself and my loved ones. I don't want to give anyone too much false hope, but even simply being the first to calmly step up can easily turn people away from wanting to fight you. I've stepped up to groups of 2 or 3 dudes who wanted to do harm to someone else on multiple occasions and they turn away with a remark. Nobody wants to fight someone who's calm and confident.
it is true what you said, confidence has a huge role in defining a situation, but to be actually capable is to some degree a concrete confidence that will be shown, so better be actually competent than looking like one.
@@blahhdelmygmailcom you’re right and it’s not always the right move to step up at all. I did put the disclaimer in there that I wasn’t trying to give too much false hope lol All anyone can do is trust their training, knowledge and instinct to make the right call.
@@tmauntler Active self protection channel on youtube talks about this.. 3rd party encounters, be VERY careful, because you don't know who either person is or what it's about or what they're capable of. But if there's something happening where you don't think you can look yourself in the eye ever again if you let it happen, of course you do what you have to, but he generally advises to stay out
@@Drikkerbadevand lol well, they were all people I knew/loved being targeted in ways I couldn't turn from. I agree that not knowing context can simply make things worse
This is why I always defend aikido as a useful practice. I've literally had people try to punch, grab, or kick me thousands of times and am so desensitized to bodily threats that I'm not going to freeze up in a bad situation. I've trained people who don't have that experience and it's really sad how vulnerable they are psychically (I mean sad in an empathic way, there are a lot of reasons to be that way).
I'm a south African and have been in a mugging situation twice in Cape Town. I never knew instinctively that If I where to find myself in that situation weather I would have a fight or flight/freeze reaction. I practiced wing-chun forms for many hundreds of hours before these incidents. IE: The forms where wired into my brain like a musician's instrument. The first incident happened when my dumbass wanted to take nighttime photography of the town during a misty night. (dont do that in SA). I was jumped by two guys and I responded so quickly that I surprised myself. I always trained to use palms and fingers to the face and fists to the solar plexus. Because of my hard wired training and explosive reaction I managed to mess both guys up and escape with my camera, which was my source of income at the point. I probably would not have responded the way I did if it was not. The guy who thought he was a flight man became a martial artist in a second. (this sounds lame but it's true). The second time I was much more aware of my situation and as the assailant reached into his hoody pocket for his weapon blood was coming out of his nose. I did not stick around in either situation. I acted very swiftly and left just as swiftly. I was fitter and stronger back then but I know that those neural pathways are still in my brain and my body will react without much thought. I dont need to bench the whole gym if I can stick my finger in someone's eye; they don't want to play when they are blind. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk.
As someone who has unfortunately been in alot of fights, something I've noticed is that grappling pretty much always comes into play, even when neither myself or an opponent(s) intended to. You're in a survival mindset, you get close to somebody attacking you, and you instinctively grab and hold. Grappling training with a basic knowledge of striking is your best bet in a life or death hand to hand situation. Boxing is great but the candid videos you see of dudes lighting someone up on the feet, is in reality, a small fraction of street fight's outcomes. I took capoeira for 5 years, and I agree with what they said 100%, one thing they missed in it's favor, is the understanding of measuring and rhythm it gives you, which if a fight goes long enough on the feet (>30 secs), is a HUGE benefit to your safety and success. That being said, there's no great defense for a bullet. The best fight is one you just don't get into.
I have dabbled in several martial arts over the years...they make a very valid point...the one I learned the most in was the one where I got punched in the face. 😁
IMHO Capoeira, because of its multi directional movement and ability to control space, is better at defending against multiple opponents than on a one on one situation.
I was like "I'm not about to watch an 1:23:14 long video, so I'll just click on the ones i want to hear about" and then i clicked on every martial art out of order and watched the entire video lol
I think a factor a lot of people don't consider with codified martial arts systems is that quite often if they have a competitive sport scene, the teaching will often be optimized and gamified for the rules of that sport rather than winning a real fight. Someone who is really well trained in a competitive martial art is going to instinctively avoid stuff that would get them disqualified like groin shots, eye gouges, rabbit punches, illegal chokes, etc. and conversely not have any training to defend against those sort of moves because in a competitive context they aren't expecting to encounter those moves. And your goal as a competitive fighter is to score points within the rules, not potentially maim your opponent. Someone like a Muhammed Ali or a Sugar Ray Leonard who were all time greats in a boxing ring might not have done so well in a street fight, since a lot of their tactics were optimized for scoring points, and wearing an opponent down over many rounds with breaks in between. Not saying all boxers would do poorly, a good pressure fighter might do insanely well for example. I find it interesting to look at the roots of different arts, and see how they started, like a good example is wrestling since going back through European fight manuals from medieval/renaissance era sources, almost all of them have some mention or even a whole section about grappling/wrestling. I've heard striking with fists was mostly alien to medieval europeans because 1, Everybody had knives, so why not just use that, and 2, striking with unwrapped fists was a good way to break bones in your hand, which is a very scary prospect in a pre penicillin world. Wrestling has a long tradition in basically every part of Europe going back to antiquity, and has never really died out, which to me says it has value as a system. With something like TKD or Karate, those ones on the other hand are very much divorced from their roots and can be best compared to something like Sport Fencing vs actual sword fighting, where they are so completely gamified that they have basically nothing to do with fighting anymore. Just like sport fencing, at one point they were based on real martial arts, but over time as they became more watered down to make them safe enough for competition and as the rules changed over the years they just ceased to be anything similar to fighting and became more of a game. I think at the end of the day, he is right about the economic aspect, because anyone who is SERIOUSLY worried about self defense could either spend hundreds of dollars and years training at a gym, stay in shape, and maybe be able to handle themselves when the time comes, or take that same money, and go buy a gun, and beat almost anyone with a significantly lower learning curve, (even if they aren't actually as safe as they think, as that gun is just as likely to be turned on them, or cause some collateral damage, or any other number of issues that creates)
My japanese Jiu Jitsu club was excellent. I think mainly due to our instructor though... he had black belts in multiple martial arts and used to encourage us to go train at other clubs. He said we may learn techniques that work for us, but was confident that at worst we'd appreciate our club more. He also said if we learned something cool somewhere else, he wanted us to show it at our club and see if it was viable. He was a pretty cool instructor.
I feel like og jujutsu has the best mentality of being the most open minded in situations as it's similar in fashion to wrestling historically and mma but gets too defensive based. Whereas you need to use it against resistance and attackers at full force.
@@NeroAngelo616 the Ryu of Japanese Jiu Jitsu I studied as a child in Penang had offensive moves and weapons.. we were taught Weapons before we learned empty hand techniques, some thing I have done over the last 35 years of Instructing
@@THE_Secular_Conservative It's one of the oldest arts as most martial arts are a refined piece of it extended down from the 20th century onwards. Og Jujutsu was a piece of the Samurai.
As someone who wrestled for 15 years it really makes me happy to finally hear it included in a "top martial arts" discussion... always feels like it gets left out but you guys summed it up perfectly.
bro do you live under a rock? i never did anything martial whatsoever, i am a super-casual mma pseudo-fan, and even i have heard countless times that wrestling is the shit - makes you durable, strong af, physically and mentally tough, and "most of the top mma-fighters come from wrestling" (probably heard it from Rogan)
@@jaromor8808 lol I might as well be living under a rock, haven't watched MMA for quite a while. Last I was watching the only thing anyone talked about was BJJ.
@@nein62 I'm sure you have seen Khabib when he was dominating MMA. He was a tough wrestler. Now there is this guy called Khamzat, and he is a scary dude making his fights look like he is fighting amateurs, and I believe he is a tough wrestler.
Wrestling and judo are easily the best grappling martial arts for self defence and wrestling is the best for MMA. One throw on concrete is all it takes to ko someone a double leg that leaves you in the top position gives you the perfect opportunity to strike someone and finish them
Perfectly how,there's no strikes or submissions in plain old wrestling and in a streetfight it's useless against multiple people. Do you know how stupid you're gonna look just going for a double leg over n over? You can easily get hit by someone else while you're grappling. No way it's an S.
I’ve trained three years of Muay Thai and after traveling around to different dojos in the U.S, the biggest issue is tradition vs. fitness. So many people try to compete locally and although their cardio is excellent and they are muscular, their technique is lacking. Striking a balance between the two is important.
Exactly. I was shopping for quality Muay Thai training and most dojos were based on exercise. Found one that was tradition/Thai way. He trained in Thailand, got certified in Thailand, and fought in Thailand. Everyone really needs to research a new dojo as well as the teacher(s).
Understanding where it hurts to get hit on the human body is essential. I got beat up a few times and then realized where it hurt and used that technique back on those who bullied me. I only won about a dozen street fights in my life.
My parents forcing me to go to Muay Thai and MMA classes literally saved my life several times. Once a guy kept messing with me, long story short he started to hit me and I low kicked into his upper thigh and that was it. They left me alone and stopped hanging around my school, no clue if they would have jumped me but I booked it once he stopped attacking. Another time was at a party and it never moved past pushing but once I took a stance and got ready to be hit the guy said nope and stopped right there, he was way bigger and in better shape but that confidence my parents installed into through forced classes has no doubt saved me. I was never a bully just the quiet ackward person I am today but WAY smaller. Thank you Mom and Dad, anyone on the fence do it, get in there and learn. Don't do it to fight, do it so you can defend yourself when forced to fight. Good luck friends and great video.
@@Tyborzthat’s most “mma” nowadays but really what they should be doing is teaching how to use them in an mma match (rules where you can strike, grapple and ground fight)
Yeap, the confident eye, that's something that has saved me many times. I've done some Tae Kwon Do when I was younger and although there are plenty of guys out there than can beat me, I'm so confident and calculative when the fighting starts that people get discouraged and immediately back down.
Thankl your parents. After doing karate for a lesson I got into a fight in school and my parents pulled me from the lessons. After that I was always getting punched trough out high school.
Fun fact: greco-roman grappling techniques were developed to be used in real combat situation (particularly in war) and we have historical records of those techniques being actually used in battle.
@@lovelife1867 We don't know, the sources jusy say "wrestling". A famous case (and also a quite lqte one, since it happens in late antiquity) is that of Andreas, in The Battle of Dara, under the command of Belisarius.
@@ronfox5519 That happens all the time. We now have these typologies of swords, weapons and techniques, these specific categorizations, and ancient and medieval chroniclers just write "sword", "spear", "wrestling". The only marked differentiation that we get from ancient sources is πάλη (Pálē -wrestling-) from πανκράτιον (pankátrion -a form akin to modern mma).
@@jarlbregadan914 same shit different names. They all learned the same thing, and it all falls under the same umbrella. Complicating this is like discussing lineages with kung fu freak nerds.
I'm looking for a new hobby, and landed on martial arts and found this video with a cursory search on youtube. You guys play off each other well, and I watched beyond the specific styles I was interested in. About to browse the rest of your channel!
The clinch work comment is understatement. Clinch work is so beautifully useful for closing distance that many striking arts don't realize they need....some will literally stall up wondering what to do next. That clinch can be such a game changer.
They are talking about self defence. In the streets clinching will probably get you stabbed even by guys who don´t even have the balls to cut you on their own.
Great video! As a Muay Thai instructor/practitioner for 20+ years I learned a painful lesson against a wrestler. He caught my kick and dumped me on my ass. It was a real eye opener for me. I asked the wrestler to teach me how to stop that and defend against the shoot. I started to add take down defense in class. I would point out the weaknesses of Muay Thai to my students and make sure they were aware of them as well as ring fighting vs street fighting. At the time I was teaching stand up at a Daniel Moraes BJJ school so many of the students would take both so they could help fill the gaps in their games.
In street fight, dont ever knee or leg. Use clinch and elbows. Your mistake is to try to kick a wrestler. If a wrestler tries to grab you, use clinch to give you advantages and cut his head with your elbow,.
You know.... this is basically first month of Karate Shotokan or whenever Mae Geri is introduced. Take leg even faster then you threw or when it gets caught you are toast. Usually done by sensei.
Icy Mike is basically saying the same thing I've been thinking about while considering a martial art to get into. Being REALLY good at one and exceptionally well at others to compliment what you are really good at. Kind of like mixing a striking art like Taekwondo with some Muay Thai and a takedown and groundwork art like wrestling or jui-jitsu.
yea i did TKD at the age of 8-14 and still continue i thought of BJJ but now that i see this list i feel like there are 3 other better ones (in A/-A/B list)
@@charzanboo9940 if time is your limiting factor, just buy a pistol. The problem with training something that teaches "natural weaknesses" is that it's highly technical (stuff like joint manipulation, pressure points, understanding balance/center of gravity, etc.,) and that takes *a ton* of time for it to be realistically useable under pressure. If you want the overall (in my opinion) best combination of martial arts for self defense, I'd say learn wrestling (catch wrestling ideally, but less common) and muay thai.
I do want to point out that Aikido is one of the martial arts used by the Japanese police to incapacitate perpetrators in Japan in combination with other Japanese martial arts in a system they call taiho jutsu(which literally translates arrest technique). You can see the influence of Aikido along with Judo in taiho jutsu in this video: th-cam.com/video/hBwB1-GqjXk/w-d-xo.html
@@christopherknight3942 There is a big difference between facing someone to fight them and trying to use Aikido and being a Police Officer and having someone on the ground and using a joint lock. Keep in mind that Aikido will get a person hurt in a real fight. Aikido was created for "show" not "go"
@@johnreidy2804 Aikido's predecessor Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu has been around for hundreds of years and includes long and short sword training. Aikido because of it's defensive philosophy is a watered down version of it but includes many of the same joint locks you find in Daito Ryu. The application of it's techniques are situational just like Krav Maga but because of it's limited nature(purely defensive with no strikes or grappling) is best used with other martial arts just like taiho jutsu. I like being a complete fighter myself and have trained in different martial arts and can attest that some of the techniques aikido or it's Korean equivalent hapkido teaches is indeed quite effective even against a larger opponent resisting in certain situations.
@@christopherknight3942 Aikido is worthless and its Korean equivalent is NOT Hapkido which is effective. If you think I'm wrong go pull up a video where two people face off and the Aikido guy wins. You won't find one unless its just for laughs. The creator of Aikido Ushebi even said it was for show. The word Aikido even means "harmony and together". Its basically a choreographed dance friend. Really it's not what some think it is.
They did. Boxing is easily A Tier or higher. The issues with BJJ is it only works 1 on 1. And even if you think it's 1 on 1, it may not be if the guy has a buddy role up. Never go to the ground if you don't have to
I tend to agree. I read a quote from a pro boxer once. He said that most people think of the sport version of boxing when they dismiss it as a self-defence system. However, experienced boxers know how to use elbows in close, know how to strike vital targets that normally aren't allowed, know how to clinch effectively... They just don't get to use these techniques in competition. If a boxer taught himself a few basic kicks and grapples, he would be pretty formidable.
Yeah, but boxing doesn't teach kicks and grapples. If you teach a judoka basic kicks and punches, he would be just as if not a harder opponent than boxing with basic kicks and grapples. I mean one on one, the boxer needs to be very good at keeping distance or get a really good hit, before a grappler gets close. Because as soon as the grappler gets close it's over.
Having grown up in one of the most dangerous part of my town in poland and seeing people geting jumped on daily, this list is very odd. I think it all comes down to the viciousness and fact that theres usually more than 1 opponent. Kickboxing and muay thai always was the king and fellas who were training those faired by far the best.
@@alexanderstevens145 This is huge, i think they did mention it a bit in the clip, but you need to be ready to get hit, multiple times. Whatever you train, however good you may think you are, there will be pain.
@@UrBoyTaz While you are right, if your opponent is a vicious monkey who doesnt care about your life, and your takedown try is literally a coin flip with better odds due to your training (seen too many wrestlers not being able to take people down to change my mind), id rather stick to standup. Life isnt gym mat.
Agreed. They obviously have a grappling bias as most sport fighters do. Would love to see a grappler take on multiple opponents or deal with small joint manipulation, blades, biting, etc.
I trained aikodo when i was a teenager and my master was also doing kyokhusin pretty seriously. He was always very upfront about the fact that even he as a blackbelt couldnt and wouldnt try to pull off any aikido based-move in a real fight, he would rather hit and low-kick. The founder of aikido also required originally that his students must be a black belt in some other martial art like judo or karate. I mean if your aikido master is not a self-righteous ego inflated man, it is definetly be a different experience than in the bullshido videos. From the first days of my training it was very clear to me that it wont help me in a real life situation, but i've learned so much about physics in a sense that i really started to feel how you can turn a straight force to a circular orbit. I think if someone is trained in other, more concrete and effective martial arts, aikido could be sort of an elevated, more abstract addition to their feel within a fight if you know what i mean. If you only do aikido you dont stand a chance, but it is still a very interesting thing to do.
Supplemental? Redirecting opponents would work great with multiple opponents as far as I can tell. Wrestling came from medieval knights which were TANKS so they didn't really worry a out that 3rd person as far as I know.
@@Jd-zl7mn Except you're not redirecting anything cause it's not real, your opponent doesn't resist, drop your ego, I'm trying to help you, go try 1 BJJ session u will see the truth, nothing works against multiple.
Judo is very underrated as self defense, slamming a guy on the ground usually just takes the person out, if you're not careful you may hurt his head depend on where it lands, the thing about judo, I always ask my sensei to teach me no-gi throws because not everyone will be wearing jackets for you to perform that.
I think Judo + some striking techniques are enough for self-defense/street fight. It provides throws, ground works, chokes, joint locks, sweeps, holdings and strikings enough for a regular person.
One thing about street fights/anything outside a competition or sparring session? The ground is typically a LOT harder. Seriously. Getting slammed on a hard floor is not fun. And concrete? Just call the ambulance already.
It's also really good because it has some of the most practical training/sparring of any sport so it really helps you stay in control in these situations
@@PeaceDweller depends why you’re learning martial arts. Sambo isn’t as popular or accessible and outside of Russia and it’s neighbours the quality of the coaching isn’t consistent. I like judo because of the respect, rules and uniqueness of its style. Self Defense wise sambo is good but it is also very technical with limited sparring because it is not as common so in practical in-the-moment testing it’s not as strong.
I trained in Japanese ju-jitsu for 3 years and we full contact sparred in every class, both standing and ground. There was a degree of weapons training that was mostly knife and sword work. I consider myself very lucky because I was worried that it was a mcdojo. I had a mugging confrontation and the techniques in that class saved me getting my ass beat.
We used to do the same in aikido. Messing with rubber knives, marker pens and plastic bottles. It sounds funny but helps immensely with timing and situational awareness. You also realize how many times an aggressive opponent "marks" you.
I worked security for over 20yrs in bars, clubs and concerts, many martial arts experts in self defense experts I worked alongside fared worse than the naturally big rugby player types whose sheer physicality won the day
While I dont think you're wrong, physicality and size definitely help, especially when combined with near reckless abandon to get control of someone. I do however roll with a few rugby players in bjj. Strong as hell and yes I do think strength is a technique. But, I'm closing in on 47 yrs old quickly and stand 6 ft at 205 lbs. While the rugby guys tend to be really difficult to get position on, at least the ones I roll with are susceptible to submissions in scrambles.
8:38 In my experience with Gracie BJJ, we'd usually do 1 hour of lessons & drills, followed by 1 hour of free rolling with pressure. The rolling was done from Day 1, but they'd go relatively easy on you until you're ready for more. It was a safe environment to be progressively challenged.
Here in eastern europe countries there are a lot of street fights as you can guess and there are also alot of Judokas and I can tell you especially a Judoka against a non trained person is devastating. Judo is really dangerous in a street fight, usually 1 throw and it's over as most of the times an untrained person wouldn't know how to land and would hurt themselves pretty badly
As Icy Mike said, Judo is better for stand-up fighting in a self-defense situation than BJJ is, but BJJ is better at ground fighting than Judo. That said, in my opinion, it is preferable to keep yourself standing in a self-defense situation than going to the ground if you can, and Judo more or less allows that.
@@ig-8892 bij = judo. Check their background. Gracie family were thought judo. Not jiujitsu Wich never made it to Brazil. It is judo and teaches the same curriculum. Judo has the same ground game. Just not in competition. Might i add judo is the sport version of jiujitsu (military fighting). It being a sport means that its main focus is NOT to hurt your opponent. It's literally the soft path. Jiujitsu practitioners will throw you head first into the ground. Result death. It's no joke. A good judo guy can throw you and knock you out. But judo teaches all the throws,holds,locks,chockes,passes ECT. Because BJJ = Judo
@@glowNINE But Judo will take out the untrained in a move easy and I've used it in real fights subduing a person and Army sparing where I just could not stop myself from throwing full speed which knocked the guy almost out and out of it for a good amount of time. But correct I know from WWII British commando Karate can kill in one blow.
A Navy Seal once said the two best MAs to learn for self-defense that're available to the public are boxing and BJJ/GJJ, simply due to the fact they're highly effective even with the worst instructors.
@@Liberum69 I don't think that's necessarily the case. The most effective martial arts will already be known of. Most military martial arts will be ones that can be taught quickly because they have to spend so much time training other things and the chances of hand to hand combat in warfare involving no weapons is very unlikely.
@@abcdefksohfosuh9024 That makes sense. And it explains his practical suggestion of boxing and BJJ, too, as they become useful very, very quickly, and it's easy to find somewhat competent trainers in most places, unlike most MAs.
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
I personally prefer striking forms in real life street fighting situations because usually there are multiple aggressors. With striking you can maintain distance and you don't always have to fully supress your opponent(s) to defend yourself. Often 1 or 2 strikes are enough to deter or put doubt in your opponents' mind, giving you a window opportunity to walk/run away. With grappling, too often you need to fully commit and you can only target one at a time and end up on the ground only to end up being surrounded. When choosing where to train, look for dojo/gyms with a master who has a lot of experience at competition level that also offers full contact sparring.
This is a great video. I got up to a 2nd degree in Aikido like you, but was able to experience both out of Japan and then in Japan. In Cali, training was very formal, ritualistic, and technique performance-based versus in Japan, where my sensei always started from the hardest position, with the opponent resisting. It was the polar opposite but showed me the value of feedback via increasing levels of noncompliance.
i was thinking the same thing. from one side sport allows to pressure test the art and produce strong athlete but to pressure test the art it's hisk risk techniques have to be removed in order to practice the art somehow safely. then again if we were to practice self defence it would always be partial and a lot of it couldn't be tested anyway so we are probably still better of practicing sports like wrestling, judo, bjj etc. but it obviously can get to the point of taekwondo where sport gets so ridiculous that it become patting contest. ps: the good taekwondo that they talked about is ITF and it still sucks- in competition strong kicks nd punches are not allowed and actual class consists of at least 50% patterns training(kata).
Yeah I thought that was a good conversation and then it sort of went out the window for TKD. All the other sport arts made it to at least C- I appreciate this list more than others I’ve seen.
I disagree about Escrima, I did a year of it at that point in my life and was attacked by a guy with a knife and was able to disarm him after getting stabbed once in the arm and slashed on the ribs. Those drills saved my life because it was dark and one of my contact lenses got knocked out in the scuffle. It could also have been the 16 years of karate, 3 years of BJJ, 1 year of Muay Thai and was teaching gymnastics in my twenties. All I saw were flashes of silver and had no time to think it was just reactions burned into me from repetition.
I did Krav Maga in the UK for many years. Interestingly we were taught most of the things that you say others lacked, but the instructor did break away from the main Krav Maga group (I think it was Krav Maga Worldwide) and formed his own. We did pressure testing very regularly, and we also sparred often. Most importantly, he would stress that the first option is always to avoid the fight in the first place if you can (including role playing situations), and we even covered after the fight - the legal aspects and talking to police / emergency services. I feel very fortunate to have found one of the better instructors, especially after seeing the dreadful “combat krav maga” online.
My instructor did this too and i left after realizing that i was paying a lot of good money for my instructor to tell me how to talk to cops, not fight. Same with history lessons, save that for a different classroom. Sure your instructor is great, sounds like youre getting ripped off
So these guys are so full of shit that they stray so far out of their lanes that they are giving legal advice!? Best way to deal with the aftermath is to get the hell out of there before the cops get there.
Boxing also teaches to get run-work, rope-work etc. for conditioning and IRL sparring. Also if you’re in a self-defense scenario you don’t want to be rolling around on the floor exposed to attacks by his buddies. I think the “self defense scenario” they’re thinking of is like being in UFC or something. I’d say boxing is A- tier or higher. Punch hard, incapacitate your opponent and flee.
Most of what I remember in Tae Kwon Do, it was 95% conditioning. Practice was run laps, 2 basic kicks, 3 basic hand strikes, run laps, cardio + footwork practice, run laps, pushups+situps+more bodyweight, sprints, practice taking body shots, run laps, and stretching. Then run more laps. It didn't teach me to win a real fight, but I sure as hell could run without gassing out and throw a decent punch. Good starting point for learning a practical fighting style.
The lowest risk of getting injured in a fight is to not be in a fight. Running with decent stamina to avoid the fight should be the primary defence, and for some reason people always drop it....
Definitely a good starting point. We didn’t spar much when I was in it, almost 5 years. I transitioned into Tang Soo Do alternating BBJ biweekly. We spar. I’ve seen how TKD has definitely helped in a lot of ways. As you stated. I knew I needed to have some pressure testing so a change was good. I’m better at my kicks and definitely more limber than most student in class.
the footwork is legit, and if taught correctly you will learn to kick correctly. but you will NOT learn to defend yourself. I did TKD, worked at a school... but on its own TKD is useless
TKD is one of the most beautiful martial arts. Unfortunately though... hands and fists are almost always faster than knees and legs! You never get to kick artfully with a running start in real life situation. And y'all know dat!
Some of the best things you can learn for self-defense are 1.how to see the attack coming 2. How to run 3.How to take a hit if the first two don't happen. My karate instructor taught us early on that things don't always go to plan. He taught me how to break a choke, and then he choked me, and I broke it, and he came back and choked me again and again and again until I got the message that the techniques he was teaching us would not always work in every situation.
Experience and confidence are possible the two of the most useful things in self defense, especially in surprise situations. When your brain and body doesn't hesitate because you have been in similar situations hundreds of times before, it can make a big difference. The only self defense situations I have ever been in were ended in seconds with me pinning the guy to the ground. Most of the time, they didn't even struggle that much after getting taken down. They appeared to just be shocked that the altercation ended that quickly. To be fair though, these guys were unarmed and were of questionable intelligence and sobriety, but the point is that the immediate and violent response of someone with extensive sparing experience can make a bigger difference than the type of martial art trained. I was at best a mediocre high school wrestler, but when things start to happen my body and mind didn't hesitate and that lack of hesitation can make a big difference in an encounter. It can also get you in trouble too. I once accidently threw a guy in a basketball game.
I dont know about Mike but i do muay thai and my opinion is sambo and sanda both work very well but i dont know if its different enoph from kickboxing or mma to fall into a different section.
Been training in Taekwondo for a little while now. My instructor always made sure that no kicks to the legs or punches to the face (unless you're a red belt up) were allowed during sparring because if something goes wrong, you're out for a long time. However, feel free to hit hard if you can take the hard hits anywhere else. He also teaches you how to take out knees gouge eyes, takedowns, etc in real fights. I hate seeing the 'tag sparring' be the face of Taekwondo
I got DQ'd a long time ago in a TKD tournament for opening a cut on another guy's face when he was coming in. It was supposed to be light point-sparring (as opposed to the one with the armor and gear on), and this was only a little bit after the WTF / ITF split. On the one hand it was a good result because I didn't pull it sufficiently, but on the other hand, he was advancing and it was a counter to that. Anyway, it seems like every TKD instructor will have other things to teach besides "sport" TKD - the worthwhile ones, anyway. Even the TKD I had, which wasn't too bad, considering, didn't deal with takedowns and close-range attacks. We did ridge hand, chop, spear hand, as well as punching, but the focus was on kicks (it was TKD, after all). I'll bet most of the low attacks you had were things like the twisting kick or the back kick or low side kick. We used to practice a while measuring distance to the bag and going some of that stuff to gain distance. Good counters for high attacks can be low attacks and vice versa. Especially now, you can seemingly advance to black belt and further with just forms and breaking techniques. Now, those things aren't nothing, and nearly every TKD program will spar as well, but the focus doesn't seem to be on practicality anymore. A lot of the "self-defense" taught at a lot of schools is just a move without a whole lot of realism to put that move in context of when you need it, so I'm not convinced of the legitimacy even if the move itself is legit. I don't know what the face of TKD is these days, just that if you say you used to do TKD the next question generally is "what else did you study". I find it a little ironic because I still remember asking the guy next to me IN TKD class who was an Aikido black belt why he was doing TKD (I was in my 20's at the time). TKD nowadays isn't quite to the level of Aikido now; more slightly behind sport fencing I think. Cool tricks, great game, will keep you in pretty good shape, can be made useful for real-world applications if you know a whole bunch of other stuff too...but on its own pretty limited.
They did mention in the video that Karate (full contact and with skill) can be very good for self defense. And ITF TKD stems from Karate as well, so would you say that it's pretty useful if trained with sparring and less limited ideologies?
My son started off studying jiu-jitsu, but moved over to the judo classes and loves them. He has a t-shirt that says something like, "Judo takes them down, Jiu-jitsu keeps them there."
I started Kyokushin at 13. Muay Thai at 16, competed for years, trained at competition level till my mid 40's. Started BJJ at 48 (am now a Blue Belt), Judo a year later (Brown Belt now). Striking is still my first go-to, but I would say Judo is the best art for SD, and I wish I had started it when I was a kid. Judo has the best takedowns for SD, it has chokes, holds, breaks, and it had Olympic level conditioning. The only people that are a problem for a good Judoka are wrestlers, but the same is true in reverse. And since we're discussing SD and not interdiscipline competition, I vote Judo. ;)
So to be clear, you like judo better for SD than BJJ? I practiced judo as a kid and am looking for a martial art to get back into for SD, but also fun and fitness…
@@The_Scouts_Code Yes, I would prefer Judo, providing (but that's always true I guess) you practice it for competition (no matter the level) or you do proper randori. Every BJJ school I've trained at does proper sparring, and this is why BJJ is always 'real' whereas a lot of other MA schools don't spar. I've seen recreational Judo classes where there was no real sparring, and the results speak for themselves. Not good. But why I prefer Judo is that it starts - and usually ends - standing up. The moment you lay a hand on someone, or someone lays it on you, you have the edge, because that is where Judo starts. But it has to be practiced under pressure, with resistance. Sparring, randori, in other words.
@@The_Scouts_Code I'm going to say Judo as well. I've done Judo, BJJ, boxing and Muay-Tai, although boxing only for a year, and I have found that my Judo training has been the most useful for SD. I've been in three situations where I can surly say that it helped me but not necessarily in the way most people think. Adding to what Mike was saying in the video the break-falling part and balance you gain from Judo is probably what will be most useful for everyday life and I don't even know how many times it has helped me avoid injuries which is why I recommend it over some of the striking sports/arts since they don't teach that element.
Whoa, you started Judo at 49? Isn't Judo pretty though on the body, especially if you're over 40? Ive heard people choose BJJ over Judo because Judo led to more injuries. Much respect to you, sir, for starting new martial arts at a later age.
@@lordtains It helps that I never stopped being an athlete. I had my last competitive Muay Thai fight at 46. Learning to breakfall was not easy but it was certainly doable. But thank you for the compliment. As for injuries, it's certainly true that Judo has more of those than does BJJ, but I never competed in Judo, and sparring recreationally is less demanding. I do compete in BJJ at a very local level and I've never been injured. I'll be 60 at the end of this year and doing fine. ;)
Thank you for showing us an entertaining & informative discussion. Karate for self-defense, after 4 years of weekly training: 1) lots of physical exercise, drills & sparring, so we were fit & happy 2) we were conditioned to NEVER hurt each other by striking vital areas when sparring -so we’d have to ignore our own conditioning in a self-defense encounter 3) we sometimes practiced but never conditioned how to fall, grapple, take down, avoid takedowns 4) we never were conditioned how to deal with weapons, other than to run away 5) almost every other dojo I switched to had the same issues, so I’d rank Karate as a “D” for self defense
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@thedarkking32 Problem is in 1 vs 3 street fight basically every MA is useless. To win in 1 vs 3 you either must be EXTODINARY good to deliver a 3 knockout one after another or your oponents must be in bad (for fight) condition. In usuall 1 vs 3 street fight you will be FORCED to fight all 3 at same time with very good chance to get hit from back. And this is situation where your opponents dont have things like broken bottle.
I did some Jiu-Jitsu when I was a teenager. I was never very serious about it, used it once in self defence against a not very determined attacker, and I think learning how to fall is the best thing I got out of it. I was also an inline skater, half pipe included, and knowing how to break falls saved me so many times. Even today, I can still easily break falls and not hurt myself. That is hugely underrated. Other than that JJ was most useful against my girlfriends - I'm a strong guy, and they always wanted to playwrestle to see if they can somehow best me. JJ was great in very gently putting an end to that when they didn't want to stop.
I boxed for 8 years, starting at 19 and ending at 27; light heavy. Three carded fights, 2 wins 1 loss (I only competed in the last year). I also coached it for 6 years. With the history out of the way, whenever I had someone new coming into the gym asking to learn boxing as a form of self-defense I usually told them it's not the best choice of a martial art for that. I explained that this is a sport, it has rules and those rules will be DRILLED into you and your mindset. We break on a clinch, we don't kick, we need SPACE (that one is important), etc. Space is probably one of the most important trained aspect in a street fight for a boxer. We train (and get use to) fighting in a set ring-space, we also fight 1v1, what happens when it's not 1v1? What happens when there is not enough space (packed bar, tight alleyway, etc.)? We don't train you for that. I agree with the list, especially regarding wrestling. Being able to fight in a tight space with your opponent starting pretty much right on top of you, smothering you, I would expect to be a prime aspect of effective self-defense. Wrestling seems a perfect fit for that. Just my 20 cents.
I would think one of the important things of fighting in crowded space is a control of what is behind your back. Or you will get your head smashed by the bottle. Wrestling does not seem to help here with the focus on one opponent.
I like this type of mindset, I used to think negatively of boxing as inferior to real martial arts because it's just a sport as what was said in Baki, but after reading your comment, Boxing being a sport, It conceptually makes it more appealing to me now that it's not some real martial arts suitable for every combat situation
I have taken Judo, Taekwondo, Wrestling, Muay-Thai and a little bit of BJJ. Unfortunately I've been in alot of bar fights and this describes what has happened to me on many occasions. 1. Punches, kicks, shoves get thrown (first 10 seconds) 2. Clinch (next 5 seconds) 3. O Goshi or Uki Goshi happens quickly, they land HARD and I get side control. (fight usually is about to be over at this point because people around now intervene by pulling you off or attempt to kick you in the face etc) Judo - O Goshi or Uki Goshi variation is the most natural, easiest and effective technique in a street fight once you clinch. Judo has been the most helpful martial art for me in real life situations.
Looking at the data, most street fights end within the first 10 seconds because people lack basic boxing skills. To defend against punches and to throw them properly is probably your best initial skillset to know. Therefore BOXING is S tier in my opinion, and as you say, some basic clinching skill and judo is next.
I took judo as a kid, 10, but only took it for a year. However, it had taught me a lot in that year, simple throws, choke holds and how to fall safely. The falling safely has saved me more times than not. Also most fights end on the ground and that is were Judo has helped me.
Out of all the noise i just watched, you sir spoke not base on hearsay or anything else but real life experience. Judo should be top tier ( if i had to go back in time it'll be the first i'd take) along with Muay Thai being street fight is a different ball game and very rarely a one on one were rules are thrown out because its never a defense but a survival.
I think you brought up the greatest thing martial arts can teach you. Rolls and falls. I guarantee at some point everyone will need and use those. Great point.
From my experience, getting on the ground in general was never a good idea for self defense situations. Mostly because every instance of a street fight I've seen or briefly been involved with was heavily centered on groups of people targeting smaller groups or even an individual person. I've seen guys get on the ground to do a choke or attempt an armbar only to be descended on and mobbed. It's why I'd suggest Judo instead of BJJ or Wrestling, personally.
Judo though promotes a lot of bad habits in terms hip throws. Turning you back especially if you don’t have as many points of contact (no gi) is bad. Most foot sweeps maybe besides O Soto or Ouchi require the opponent to be operating under Judo rules (and a fancy de ashi to strike is not going to help you if you can’t throw a cross). Even if you get thrown it’s worse on concrete but not fight ending necessarily. If your opponent has any natural wrestling inclination, you don’t train sprawls and in fact are probably standing too straight.
@@gudea5207 It does train bad habits, there's no arguing that. I can only recommend Judo more than I can BJJ due to what I've personally seen. Which is Judo being used to end fights by sending a guy head first onto concrete compared to the one or two times I've seen someone bring a fight to the ground, only to get mobbed on. I also say this, being someone who practices BJJ (no Gi). I think Judo is just better for that situation due to my experience.
whether is a good idea or not, 90% of all fights end up in a clinch of some sort and eventually can and do fall to the ground. Being able to defend yourself on the ground is extremely important. If you are skilled you WILL get that armbar or choke someone out.
Totally agree on the break fall training. Trained in judo when younger, and Kyokushin now in my 50’s, but the skill that has saved me from serious injury ‘in the streets’ is break falling. Watching an untrained, older person take a tumble is kind of a train wreck.
Yep. Every judo dojo has at least one person who has been saved from death or serious injury thanks to instinctually being able to get thrown to the ground and get back up again. In terms of "self-defense" it's hard to find other techniques that will allow you to walk away from a fight with an SUV.
I did judo from my 3 to 12 years (of age) and during my teenage years, I lost count how many times knowing judo helped me break falls and avoid injuries, specially when skating and BMXing.
Honestly aside from weapons, some of the worst damage people are going to end up taking in real fights are from bad falls/takedowns onto hard ground. Training in a discipline that not only teaches you how to take a fall but trains you how and gives you tons of practice preventing them is huge. I think Judo was rated fairly in this, and I was glad that mentioned those aspects as important factors in its favor.
As a Judo practitioner myself and ex Police, Mike is on the money with Judo. For self-defence situations, the quick grabs and instinctive movements (escapes, trips, off-balancing and of course throwing) developed when practicing judo over time will provide a big advantage in self-defence situations (when stood up). Ground work is frequently practiced so agree not better than BJJ but better than the average punter. All subject to individual physical/psychological limitations. Good to hear Mike keeping Rokas on track with that.
@@hugoramallo1980There's a lot of value in BJJ ground work. It has a lot more variety of holds (kneeholds, etc.) than judo and less limitations (for example I can choke with the legs even if I don't have one of your arms). But you're also right BJJ guys just sit there waiting for you to attack them in a BJJ manner. Judo's ground work is limited, but I think it's stood up part is way more useful and the ground part is more than enough to subdue any untrained attacker.
BJJ is very effective of 1-on-1 combat. It is bad for multiple attackers. The biggest issue is the willingness to go to the ground. You better know that person doesn’t have friends next to you that are going to soccer kick you in your head.
@@MartialArtsJourney I've mentioned it before but here it is again... I would REALLY like you to look at TRIATHLON style SHIDOKAN KARATE. I'm curious of your opinion. It is a Kyokushin offshoot that DOES have face punching, Judo, Ne-waza, Kickboxing and more... It is almost like Japanese MMA in a sense. Triathlon style rules is 1st round Bare knuckles Kyokushin Rules + Judo with 30 seconds of ground work before standing up. 2nd round is Muay Thai/Kickboxing. 3rd Round is No Gi MMA.
I practised Vovinam for 10 years since the age of 7. My master always taught 2 ways for every technique. One way that looks nice for performances and one way for use on the streets. Since I turned 18 I had to use those street techniques a few times and it got me out of some really tough situations. What the guys said in the video was right though, there's a difference between learning martial arts and learning self-defense because out on the street you usually don't know you're in a fight until you've already got hit.
I do not agree with that. If you have a good teacher, the first thing you should have learned is awareness. Awareness of yourself, your environment and others in your environment, as well as the energy in your environment. You should be able to spot trouble way before it happens in most instances.
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@sifu8056 I know this is an old comment but no one can be 100% aware all the time and if they are that could be a sign of PTSD. We all have blind spots, and to add to what the OP said, the dangerous situation is seldom the one you are aware of, its when you are blindsided, so situational awareness is important, but assuming that you should always be able to spot trouble before it happens is naive.
I love these comparison videos and I think this is maybe the best one I have watched, for a few reasons: 1) is the conversational aspect of it. But 2) is those last few minutes, which really lays out the truth. But the entire thing was helpful and interesting.
Thank you for this presentation, I found it to be educational, and I agree that self defense is a lot more than just studying martial arts or an array of them. As someone who has studied boxing, kenpo, FMA and back alley Elizabethan fighting. You've helped me realize that I should up my ground game and work on breakfalls and my grappling. Keep up the good work.
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@thedarkking32 But if you get taken down which most fights end on the ground. You would be helpless. Thats why Knowing Bjj also would give you the best chance. You dont always have to end a fight with bjj knowing positioning is all you would need if someone blindsides you taking you down and be able to get back up and run or get out the situation. If not once someone mounts you no matter how good the boxing its over.
Boxing has helped me with 90% of the confrontations I have been in. Easy to use subconsciously when the adrenaline is high. About a year of training and you are already in better shape physically and mentally. Sparring keeps your fight or flight from clouding your mind. And learn a bit of BJJ or Wrestling and you have the whole kit.
Yeah I laughed and knew he would pit boxing on low. Boxing is a fat S tier, they did it dirty. Nobody will do fancy jump kicks or grapples while fighting on concrete.
@@midnightvibes5485 yeah definitely training 1 or 2 nights a week in a hour long sanitised class isn't enough to build up the strength, stamina or reaction control that can help you deal with a real world confrontation. Most boxing gyms will have several different classes focused on different aspects like fitness, techniques or sparring and coaches who have actually had a fight or two in their adult lives
I did Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. As part of our training we studied elements of aikido, shotokan karate and judo. We sparred all the time and did groundwork every session. We also learnt attacks and defence with traditional and modern weapons including multiple attacks. I know which techniques work for me and have had to use them very rarely but still visualise what could happen and what I could do when a situation begins to arise and I can’t get away from it safely. Being always aware of what is going on around you and getting away from danger is usually the first thought.
have you ever had an actual person (not a sparring partner) charging at you to literally beat you to death, or to cut your head off with a knife? like tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. training is nice, you get some exercise and all that, but you cannot know how you'll react in an actual fight. what would likely happen is you'd forget everything you've learned about martial arts and go into survival mode.
@@IRGhost0 I worked as a prison officer for 27 years and did have to use my skills although rarely. I have been attacked with table legs and homemade knives and was always in a position to defend myself. The only time I got seriously injured was when I was completely surprised by an inmate who I had been helping all day long who unknown to me had gone completely loopy and hit me in the face whilst he had a plaster cast on his arm whilst I was opening his door. I was knocked unconscious and had a bloody nose and mouth. He ended up being sectioned. I have also been attacked by a couple of drunks many years ago (not at the same time) I used very simple takedowns and restraint techniques on both. Then let them go when they appeared to calm down.
The sparring and full-contact contests is something I remember vividly from my Ju-jutsu? Ji-jitsu? Ju-jitsu? Jiu-jitsu? days. Gloves, headgear and body armor for sparring, and the instructors occasionally went to tournaments and came back with giant bruises and/or casts. Since I'm a wuss, that's what made me drop out - I tapped the moment my opponent was approaching a lock, I didn't fight until the pain made me yield, and I did not absorb impacts but went down when the opponent got in a good strike.
My Japanese jiujitsu dojo does train live. It’s *mostly* through light randori at the end of class where we are encouraged to implement the day’s topic. There are other live fighting exercises that are super helpful. I have used Japanese jiujitsu in real world situations and it has been effective 100% of the time (for me anyway, and thanks to randori and other live exercises). Finger locks, grip escapes, chokes, etc. executed at the start of potential conflicts has always ended a fight before it grew beyond a simmer. As a woman, Japanese jiujitsu has kept me safe from late night drunk attackers, inappropriately handsy guys at bars, and all out brawls in the middle of the street. I’ve studied BJJ (Gracie University) briefly and it is totally impractical for real life protection. It all starts on the ground, which is where you lose the upper hand. Japanese jiujitsu ends the fight before anybody is dragged to the floor and creates enough space for the victim to run away and escape (which is always the safest plan). BJJ is great for competition; Japanese jiujitsu is great for real world scenarios
I spent 14 years between Judo and TKD. Both being taught by the same guy and that was an absolute blessing because at a certain point he began to teach how to use those two together. The TKD he taught was very geared towards real world application. We actually had problems with going to tournaments because of that.
@@benedictbernal6736 so did I in a tkd tournament last year, and got points taken would have gotten first place if not for that . That's so real. Keep going on your journey.💪🥊
almost same w me its a shame tkd gets a bad reputation based only on WTF (world taekwondo federation) when you have ITF wich is way more usable at self defense and paired with something like judo its a goated style but i still think its not the best and it has its flaws most schools teach a certain way and are not open minded
No judges or rounds, this is self defence not sport. Lethwai has brutal rules but the level of competition not good, their best fighters are not great.
@@weekdaycycling You don't have to be a Lethwai fighter to headbutt, I trained in Boxing and Muay thai for 43 years, I headbutted guys in clubs but hey what do I know im just a noob.
@@Saaannn22 I never said it isn't a good form of self defence, it disgusts me when people twist my words. I said they havnt produced many good fighters.
The best ones to learn is BJJ, Muay Thai, and Wrestling. A good amount of skill in each of them will help you in self defence in most situations (unarmed ofc).
The thing is most of each one will be a waste of time still. Imo this is the where MMA comes in. It takes the best from each martial art that works best in a real (or close to real) situation. They should do another vid on what they would specifically take from BJJ, wresting, boxing etc
@@TheOlzee one thing though ofc always run if someone brings a knife. The mma stance is counterproduktive against a knife, and gets you killed hence learn some krav maga fma for Those situations aswel
a good boxer can eliminate two or three opponents fairly quickly. Honestly, who would have liked to have a street fight with Prime Mike Tyson? No man in the world!!
@@kalterkakaozumfruhstuck1515 a trained individual can take down multiple untrained individuals relatively easy, Mike Tyson can probably take down dozen of people if they don't jump at him at once in no weapon situation. The physical capability is very bizarre, an Asian man can deliver a punch only around 1/9 of his punch, you only need twice the normal man amount to knock a person out or stun them, I once stun a guy for hours, he was knocked down for minutes. In self defence situation, your mentality, quick wit, being able to use brain in combat along with physical ability and understanding how your opponents will move really help, also ferocity, a lot of people get scared so easily which hinders their ability to defense themselves.
No point in learning BJJ if you're learning wrestling. The wrestler outmatches the BJJ practitioner in all things groundwork. Muy Tai or boxing covers the striking shortfalls. BJJ came on the scene when no one knew any groundwork. It lost its dominance once people learned Greco-Roman and how to defend against takedown attempts.
I actually saw the entire video with great interest, thank you. I have an 8 yrs old and currently just focusing on calisthenics and aerobic development, making it all fun to build confidence through praise and genuine encouragement without an immediate agenda... However, he is not interested in wrestling or boxing, and I do not want to make a mistake pushing him or getting him complexed about his abilities or he should get ready for. He loves exercising and the pull up bar is his friend My background is somhow limited; I started with Shotokan and Kata which was fun for a while and left the sport for practical highs (acrobatic skydiving and resistance training as in maratons later). Life took me to Gracie JJ due to army training and expected responsibilities (I will stop here about that) and later turned towards coaching shooting folk and practicing Tai Chi in private after I honorably discharged from doesn't matter the service. Anyway, I want him to get the confidence I developed without a plan, by planning for him, or at least facilitating it. What is your take on development programs for self defense, what should I focus on for my son? My daughter is in team handball (for fun, for now) and running, so it is just me influencing him. We currently live in Germany where I retired and decided to stay for school reasons and access to wrestling schools are very limited in the area we are. My return to US later, meanwhile I am not sure what my plan should look to develop them. Thoughts? Thanks
My Korean father-in-law fought in Vietnam and taught Taekwondo in the Korean army. He was also a radio operator for a couple years and survived. Dude's in his 70's and I still wouldn't want to test him. Also, the nicest guy I know.
@mrorange3490 I agree that competative taekwondo is a joke for self defense but it's always a different story for someone who has used a martial art in actual combat. A martial art is far more effective when you don't have to follow rules.
@mrorange3490 I did taekwondo for 6 years and it really is a joke compared to other fighting sports, really like foot tag. But any sports that makes you fit, teaches you footwork, instinctual reactions and how to kick someone in the head, you will easily destroy anyone who doesnt do a fighting sport, even if youre in your 70s and have kept practising it on occasion
@mrorange3490ehhhh. It’s like the say in the video, the way you train is everything. In general, I could not agree more before the emphasis for competitive taekwondo translates very poorly to self defense. TKD was my first intro to martial arts at like age 6 and we were doing full contact sparring. It taught me how to punch and kick with real pressure testing and more importantly taught me how to GET punched and kicked. I’ve since gone on to do everything from wrestling to bjj to judo to boxing, so I have a decent spread to compare it to. And I know this isn’t the standard TKD experience but also like they say in the video, pressure testing is key. I’d be willing to bet a military vet, especially from that region in that time period, was not learning TKD to win competitions, and it leaned a lot more heavily into the combat effectiveness aspect.
I took a basic Karate at an after-school class, and I think the most effective parts of it were the blocking. I have used the blocking before when somebody came at me, and just started going at me with their fists, but they missed every single punch because I easily blocked them all. I could have gone in with some kicks to knock them on their but if I wanted to, but we were kids, and their parent was nearby, and so was mine, so I just blocked over, and over until they got involved. Karate is a great self defense martial art for blocking, and defense. We were taught in karate that when you get punched in the face, you take a step back, and you lift your forearm to block the punch, and to block a chest punch you moved your forearm to the side to block the chest punch, and your stance is good for leg kicks. Same for your chest kicks, or head kicks. However, I have no idea how to fight on the ground if I was knocked over.
As a karate black belt I fully understand you. Karate is really good for defense and offense in a medium/long distance fight, even against more than one opponent. However, the short distance (despite kyokushin) and, especially the ground work is weak, although u can pretty much handle yourself against an untrained fighter. I was lucky to find a dojo that has a little ground work and short distance. Unfortunately a lot of dojos don't have that and, even worse, a lot focus on kata (which is USELESS in a fight, despite what they make you think with the bunkai bs). So, basically, if a karateca was to face a BJJ fighter, if the distance was kept, the karateca would easily win. But if they fall to the ground, may God help that karateca.
I still remember being shown by a friend when I was a kid how aikido had taught her techniques that would allow her to break an arm in 7 places. She demonstrated how it would work by using my wrist to lock my arm and then tapping my arm in the places where it would supposedly break. Being 12 years old (and at a time before MMA was broadly known), I took her at her word that this technique would actually work. I learned similar techniques in Kuk Sool Wan in middle school and high school (i.e. perform this wrist lock and then strike here to "break the elbow"). Today, I am immensely disappointed in these traditions. The saddest thing is, I don't think that my instructor (and likely hers) truly knew they were selling lies. They were simply repeating what they had been told, and because the martial arts lack any realistic mechanism to test their techniques, instructors and students are able to lean in to their confirmation bias and believe they're learning something that will radically alter their ability to win a fight, even with someone immensely larger and stronger than they are. Time has taught me what my fundamental human instincts always knew, size and strength actually matter, a 100 pound 12 year old can't manipulate a full grown man into a wrist lock and break their arm with a strike. I think mixed martials arts are slowly making that more clear to the world, and hopefully people are becoming less vulnerable to charlatan claims aimed at selling people the idea that they can overcome larger, stronger opponents with unarmed techniques they learn over a weekend self-defense course. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Grappling is almost all about muscle and body mass. Not the same goes against striking. If you ever get kicked in the shins or ribs from a 50kg trained fighter it will quickly dispel that lack of belief you have. Don't believe me? Picture fighting a short, 50kg muay thai fighter. He doesn't have to manipulate your limbs to inflict harm.
I took a TKD course circa 14 years ago. A sesson was split in 3 parts. Warm up/cardio, body weight excercise; hitting bags (the kinds worn on your arms like shields; technique and sparring (where you'd don on helmets vests & gloves). Beginners weren't allowed to spar. For a long time I'd still remember the tremendous weight transfer behind the kicks (we were instructed to kick "through" the target, as if he'd be like ~50 almost 2 spread out palms beyond where he stood). And the sensation to always be aware of your distance & head lest a right hand slips through. In boxing, only one out of several punches in a combo approaches the energy and sheer heft of an average kick. So, nope, some martial arts are practiced by tens and hundred millions of people. It's incorrect to lump them and mcDojos in one group.
Funny, I've heard the exact same Aikido legend of breaking arms in seven places from a friend (despite living in a totally different country than you or where Aikido has a bigger coverage in the martial arts scene). He did get in a fight once with someone with no martial arts background, and got beat up pretty bad. Thankfully no long-term injuries or anything. Bullshido like that is legitimately dangerous.
Aikido is for looking perfection. I practice Aikido many years and is very effective because teaching my avoid confrontation. Mentality is different than in the others martial arts. Contrary to appearances Aikido is similary to Krav Maga and do not strives to open conflict, but if is impossible to avoid it, you must react through surprise. In my life I got only one situation, when 3 persons tryed rob me. And I won this fight wihout fight. My calm and avoiding first atak my calmness and dodging the first attack was enough for the attacker to freeze and take away the willingness of the others to fight. When we were providing security for a rock concert, I had a similar situation when a guy a head taller and probably weighing twice as much as me wanted to get into the concert without a ticket. The security let him in, and I saw that when he entered, others would also enter. I stood in his way and calmly told him that he couldn't go to the concert. At first he threatened, then he backed out. I didn't have such situations again, because the first rule of Aikido is to avoid them. I know that my friends who practice other martial arts and with whom I sometimes train boxing have many more of these situations. Aikido can be trained in many ways. Many teachers treat Aikido as a form of relaxing movement, without observing the rules of distance and timing, thinking that someone will fall over if they breathe on them. There are also those, especially those who trained other martial arts, who do not treat Aikido like TaiChi. No martial art will give you 100% safety if you keep looking for opportunities to test yourself on the street. There is a knife and a gun in the street. I train for speed, calm, timing and for better well-being. Winning and effectiveness are, above all, a cool head and have many different faces. There are so many different forms of self-defense that everyone can adjust something to their expectations. I chose Aikido, although I sometimes also practice kicking and boxing, which I haven't had to use on the street yet
I don't understand why taekwondo is considered a sport or ineffective here. What I'm learning primarily at taekwondo is how to punch and kick people really hard with a little bit of learning which bodyparts can take an opponent's hit the best. I'm guessing it must be the difference between the different federation's styles? I've never really looked into taekwondo outside of my own school.
@@MrDagren I think in most cases, your average YKD student is 8 years old and belt progression is fast so it seems kind of like you're being sold something outside of actual combat skills. I think they all have something to offer but in my son's class, it was a lot of memorizing moves done in a solo performance.
I only remind you, one thing is taekwondo and another thing is how they teach it, especially here in the West, real taekwondo, as it was devised, is a very complete martial art, I recommend you look for videos of how the Korean military trains
@@MrDagren The issue is that there's 3 major organizations of Taekwondo (ITF, ATA, WT) where all three are massively different so it's a real hit or miss. Traditional ITF taekwondo has a lot more focus on self defence, punches, throws, and escapes from locks. Still not anywhere near what you'd have in e.g muay thai, but the comparison of ITF Taekwondo to e.g Shotokan Karate is close to 1:1 since that's what it was derived from. If you're doing ATA or WT Taekwondo you're looking for a "fun sport", nothing more serious.
I grew up in a rough neighbourhood where fights happened all the time, not the least of which were the bloody encounters with my own brother. It really toughened me up to take a pounding. When I finally started training in my late teens I realized that I had been really lucky over the years and that learning multiple techniques was amazing. Then, when we would have someone new join the club, I realized that refined training often doesn't help as well as random actual combat with someone not trained. The reason being is you were taught how to throw and block punches and moves that, if your opponent didn't have the same training, were almost useless. I had been training a few years and a new guy coming up who was great on the heavy bag, was a bigger guy, didn't stick to his teachings when sparring. He would swing wild wide haymakers. I remember the second time we sparred and he kept surprising me, swinging wide, and I thought to myself "Ok, absorb a couple of these, you can take it, then when he resets or gets gassed, then it's your turn." Problem is, he didn't stop.
"Problem is, he didn't stop." Right -- It's definitely a mindset adjustment when you realize that Joe Schmo Attacker on the street, whatever reason he has for attacking you, isn't trying to save anything back for multiple rounds or even the walk home. He's angry and tunnel-visioned and will dump his adrenaline reserves immediately into whatever he's got. And adrenaline lasts a lot longer than a defender would expect, especially since missing your haymaker just makes you madder and grants more adrenaline as feedback. Even a trained boxer aiming a "gimme" knockout blow at a wide-open opponent won't spend as much net force into that punch as a mouth-foaming angry man will dump into his wild haymakers. There's zero sense of self-preservation because the best defense for a man in a rage is a good offense. Dodging said offense is easier, but absorbing it is not wise.
I encountered the same problem when play-wrestling/sparring with friends from other gyms. These guys would toss out techniques that either did not exist or I had not trained from my martial art and catch me off-guard. I only won a quarter of the time. Actual combat can teach you a lot of shit and I do agree. At the end of the day though, I'll give kudos to you. Being in so many fights and actually learning them, I look up to ya. I could take a pounding and KO three times a day and still not learn shit from it, lol.
@@skullhead8617 thanks. It was a weekly occurrence for quite a period of my youth and even into my twenties, unfortunately. I carry quite a few scars from those days. It helped but also hurt that I was a scrawny kid that got big once puberty hit. It was often just a challenge navigating the people that wanted to pick a fight because you were the big 240lb fifteen year old with long red hair who stood out or whether you could puff up to intimidate your way out of having to actually fight.
As someone who spent many of their childhood years training in karate, it really does vary a ton between schools. I was trained in a shito-ryu school and we were taught both for sport/competition, and real self defence. And they definitely taught us some very brutal yet effective techniques for life and death situations. In sparring we did do full-contact with some protective gear so we were conditioned to take hits really hard too. But there's a lot of vulnerability. We were taught some grappling but there's very little that was taught about what to do when you're taken to the ground. I really learned how to fight when I started sparring with friends from school who all practiced different martial arts.
@@anonamemous6865 in a real fight you have to win at all costs cause you don't know if the opponent will kill you or smth. In most cases, honor and pride are bs, they won't let you do what you want.
"Time spent kicking is time not spent punching". Great, great point. It's important to cover weaknesses, but is also crucial to focus on strength. Time is limited and being smart means allocate enough time to cover major holes while specializing in a single good offense. On one side every skills gives diminishing returns after a while: After 3y BJJ + 1y Judo + 1y Muay Thai will be much more effective at defending an average fighter than a 5y BJJ. On the other side if they fight each other, they will get to the ground and the 5y BJJ will probably win. And it gets even more complicated, because learning curves are different, because some martial arts skills simply require more time to be learned, 5y of boxing you get relatively at a higher level technically wise compared to a 5y Judoka (not saying you get to the top, just saying in boxing is more about mastering a simpler skillset than covering a wide skillset like in Judo). So it could be smarter to allocate some time even to sub-optimal fighting styles, because you get the benefits quicker. And than there is the population effect. Widespread martial arts produce more high level fighters. This is a simple game of numbers, but can skew the perception in favor of these disciplines. Being a world top 10 Judoka/Boxer is harder compared to as being a top 10 Wrestler.
To speak to Krav Maga, i did about 2 years in my teens, I'll be fair and say that my school wasn't the best but 80% of what we trained for was realistic scenarios for self-defence and I think that was also the primary goal of Krav Maga. Usually 3 main focuses, good punches, kicking and wrestling for if you're forced to fight. I would probably agree more or less with you if you're talking about winning the fight, however when you're ranking on the basis of self defence, your chances of survival go down drastically if you choose to actively fight, ANYONE teaching actual self defence should teach how to deflect, distract and run if possible. Self-defence is about self-preservation and not staying in the fight, unless you're ABSOLUTELY out of those options, which is honestly so fucking rare. For most fights most training goes straight out the window for pretty much anyone with only 1-2 years of experience. Krav Maga taught me a good situational awareness of who and what are in my surrounding area and how to get out alive. I agree that Krav Maga is a mixed bag of everything, but you're taught how to survive which is the purpose of it, not to necessarily be good/amazing at fighting, but good enough to get out of said situations.
The thing with krav maga (and I am talking about the traditional Israel one that is used in the SF) is that it has no rules, since it is used for when a soldier might lose their weapon, this is why pushing in the nuts, eyes, throat is acceptable and is why there are no competitions except for the shitty worldwide
That is why any good Krav Maga school will have you be already experienced in some martial art like boxing, karate, muay thai, etc. and to build your cardio.
@@Mark-wq5uw but that's easy to get around, sure krav maga organisations might not sponsor any such thing but you could do so unofficially. At least in the gym I went to we did that for fun and also sparred with outside people
Great video! My only 2 cents is that boxing should be rated around A or B. You fell into the same trap with boxing as you almost did during the Judo rating when comparing how a Judoka would do against BJJ on the ground. We shouldn't rate how boxers can deal with a grappler. We have to assess how the martial art would work in a street fight situation against an average person (not a high level practitioner of another martial art). Therefore, boxers would do very well because of their good understanding of distance, range, reflexes, athleticism, and a relentless toughness. The speed and technique with which a boxer can anticipate an attack, cut an angle, and land a devastating blow is very effective. Not to mention, an average person won't be able to simply take down a skilled boxer so easily. There are obvious scenarios where it's not effective if a boxer is caught in a sucker punch or ambushed unexpectedly. Even a wrestler can be knocked out cold if he's caught at the wrong moment. In terms of self defense against a real life situation, boxers are very well equipped to neutralize an attacker. Perhaps I am wrong, and I am happy to hear other thoughts. Thank you for the video!
@@aibutttickler You said boxing would be a poor choice going against multiple attackers. I respectfully disagree. Given that fighting against multiple guys at once is a stupid idea anyway, what better martial art / combat sport is there besides boxing IF one had to?
@@aibutttickler no fighting style martial art or anything truly sets u up for 1v2+ but ground work will set u up for 1v1 to ground. But the best is gun training. Could set u up for a 1v12+
@@aibutttickler Boxing might be one of the best martial arts for multiple attackers because you are great at keeping distance while striking and keeping your balance planted on both feet. BJJ or any kicking martial arts puts you at great risk by either going for takedowns or kicking against multiple opponents because they could easily overwhelm you
My traditional Japanese Jujutsu school does live training where we sit back to back, the count down and then go at each other throwing grappling and sometimes striking until a submission.
I took both Judo and Wrestling. I have always thought that my Judo was more helpful in a self-defense situation. As I listened to you two talk you made a lot of sense. The thing is my Sensei always made a point to differentiate between sports and self defense. There are subtle differences, and even some sports moves that don't translate at all. No sane person is busting out a double knee drop or flying scissor on concrete. So I thought about situations I've been in where I've used these skills (back before my shoulders where held together with duct tape and crazy glue). It often went like this. While standing I'd primarily use Judo principles to take someone to the ground. Once on the ground I'd primarily use wrestling to get control, then switch to Judo (normally a choke) to end it. But this is coming from a school that was very careful to make the distinction and even had one practice a month dedicated to self defense over sports form. I should also point out that I'm old, and the last time I practiced you could still grab the leg USJA Judo. I would be shocked if any serious Judoka would claim Judo mat work is anywhere near BJJ. BJJ is Judo mat work focused and refined. I learned almost all my useful mat work from wrestling. at hi levels you will most often see both Judokas quickly back to their feet as neither really wants to be on the mat for long. The exception being when the finishing of a throw opens up an obvious choke or arm bar. Anyway, thanks for changing my mind on that.
how long did you train both in Judo and in wrestling? :) What do you say are the main differences between the two sports (apart of the gi) ? When I did randori in Judo I saw that some foot sweeps and de ashis worked *sometimes* almost effortless. There were really times where i threw much heavier guys with "relative ease" and no real physical effort. (given of course, the opponents had to attack with judo throws themselves, which made them easily to off balance =ruleset) Is it also possible for wrestlers to take bigger guys down?
@@captainkirk7513 I did each for about 7 years. They are really quite different as sports with some overlap. The goal in Wrestling is always to get to the mat and pin. You gain points for taking control on mat (getting on top) or for having one shoulder blade touch for a set amount of time. There is no scoring system for "take downs". You can win by pin in Judo, but you aren't really as incentivized to do so. In wrestling a win for a pin is 3 seconds both shoulder blades touching the ground. While in Judo it's 20 seconds with at least on shoulder blade touching. When I was making the transition they wrestlers started to get into Judo and they were dragging people to the mat for pin. Since Judo didn't train sprawls there was no real defense. The result was the USJA started to change rules, all take downs had to include some form of sweep. And I believe later on they outlawed leg attacks at all. As far as application with a weight difference, I'd say wrestling is more effective on the ground in this regard, but while standing Judo throws take much less effort or lifting. In a multiple attacker scenario, wrestling becomes almost useless. If you take one person to the ground the others could easily stop you or attack you while you are their fairly defenseless. To defend yourself you'd have to let the person up anyway. While Judo allows you to throw and stay on your feat moving on to another opponent. Obviously, there is no marital style that is good against multiple opponents, so perhaps we can say Judo is less bad in this regard. In my personal experience I've found most of the Ashi Waza techniques to be the most useful in real world fighting situations. Very few people in a street fight have any preparation for them. Koshi Waza techniques are probably second, but getting in position for them puts you at more risk when it comes to striking. The caveat is I'm old and haven't had a real fight in at least 25 years.
UFC is 90% Wrestling 10% BJJ now. Wrestling is the ultimate form of fighting (every culture has a wrestling martial arts, not all have striking ones) , judo is a wrestling with clothes (great for winter soldiers/winter nations). You gotta check the Wrestler training regiment... its brutal. My only issue with Wrestling (in canada at least)... its soo hard to find a school.
Some clubs have 5050 ground and stand up and some of their guys are real good. But your right bjj focuses 💯 on ground they are more competent naturally on ground.
I watched a street fight between two guys. Both guys had 4-6 friends each with them. It started out as a one-on-one fight. One guy (let's call him Guy #1) was much better in the stand-up fighting, and immediately started getting the better of the other guy (Guy #2) while on the feet. Guy #2 (who obviously had some wrestling background), shot in and easily took guy#1 down, landed on top of him, started raining down punches. IMMEDIATELY, guy#1's friend jumped in, and started punching and kicking Guy #2 from behind. Then EVERYONE jumped in, and it was just a wild melee. At that point, NO MARTIAL ART was useful because it was just a wild free for all, with guys just running around and blindsiding one guy, running to another guy, and blindsiding him, etc. It was 1 on 1; 2 on 1; 4 on 1. It was just wild and uncontrolled. At that point, in my opinion the best sport to train you for a real life, wild, street fight with no rules would be rugby. Because in rugby, you have lots of physical contact between very strong and athletic men. And there's just lots of running around, smashing into each other, and ganging up on one another.
I've been doing budo shotokan karate since the age of six (I'm turning 18 this year) and I do genuinely feel like our increased focus on actual self defense situations, practicing fighting without a rule set (dojo kumite), fighting against multiple people at the same time and general combative prowess gives us a pretty good chance of succeeding in self defense situations. I personally have had to use it multiple times and it has never let me down. We also practice both avoiding getting taken to the ground and downing and controlling people without going to the ground ourselves. Edit: about the giving away belts easily, I only have a brown belt and I have graded faster than average. I also do actively self-train MMA and boxing so that could have something to do with the successful self defense but hey, I base most of my training on the principles of my karate knowledge Other edit hahah: I've had the first 15-20 years of karate described to me as a sieve because of the fact that an incomplete understanding of the fundamentals of karate is incredibly flawed. Once you get to the level you really need to get to to fully use what you've learned, all the gaps are bridged and it forms a universally useful mental and physical megastructure that can rival most.
I did shotokan karate for 2 years when I was 6-7 and I kinda agree. I quit before I started sparring but my instructor was very serious about pointing out whats tradition and what’s practical and that an attacker isn’t going to move the way you think they are, and there’s a risk that there’s more than one. This was coming from a guy who grew up in a touch city and had been in a LOT of fights. He was friends with my moms older brothers who also, got in a lot of fights around high school, and did boxing and wrestling at school. My uncles and even my mom were so bad they put people in the hospital, and no school wanted more than one of them as students at a time. So, yeah, as long as it’s not a Mcdojo, karate can be pretty good
Congratulations, wonderful objective and quite accurate overview! As Icy Mike said, the key aspect is awareness and specific training for unexpected and surprising situations, with full contact sparring and body balance awareness. If I would be looking for a school as a beginner to give useful self defense skills in 2 years then this is what I would be looking for. Also, to make it work, one needs to put in a LOT of effort. Joining a great school and taking it half-ass will not translate to any useful skills at all. So, it's a sensible approach to go from the top of the list you have created, and visit the schools in this order and sick to the one that has the most sparring, most prepping for unexpected situations while providing a solid background and foundation first. Going full contact with no pasic prep is just asking for a permanent injury, so one needs not be afraid of a bad situation, just get hurt right away and likely for life. I know too many friends who were badly hurt in half-baked full contact schools. So, last bit of advice for the school hunt: look for signs of intelligence, and that there is a lot of emphasis on the safety of the students. Not pampering, (actually the less protective gear the better - as you won't have any of that in real life) but solid foundations on how to calibrate your attacks so people learn how to land a solid punch without causing bodily harm, how to fall, etc. Also, very good indicator of usefulness is when sparring includes defense against all sorts of techniques / styles, and the instructor invites other style's instructors or practitioners to spar along or compare skills. About Wing Chun: sadly I have seen too many schools in the US which fail miserably (F grade) for self defense. This is also reflected by the so-called WC fights on YT, where the opponents show much more Wing Chun skills than the supposedly WC guy does. My school was at the opposing end of the spectrum (HWTO 1990s, Wing Tsun in Hungary). My instructors were also training special forces, so we practiced on the extreme practical side. The sure thing is that training intensity, building specific awareness and constant readiness are key.
As someone who has done several martial arts, and several ‘styles’ of Aikido, I understand the hesitation and rank for Aikido (in general), but with a really good teacher who understands the application in self defence I think it’s actually pretty good. Aikido has saved my life a couple of times and the skills help me win a 3 on 1 street attack. Despite all the valid criticisms of it I’m valuing it more for self defence these days than I used to. It is highly dependent however on the teacher and student. Another video I saw recently from an Aikido sensei with a very practical focus made a really good point about frame vs intensity. Combat sports are ritual combat, there are rules and so on, whereas (good) Aikido is a survival art with no rules and where breaking limbs, joints, and soft tissue strikes are part of it. This makes it very hard to train or pressure test safely, it also allows weak technique and sloppy practice to fill the gap in less good schools, which is indeed a weak point.
I feel I was blessed with my first two teachers, both taught non-sport martial arts, both were honest in saying what I would learn would never be recognized by any official body, both while they did have a primary style also included other styles. My first Sensei taught Aikido but also taught Judo, Jujitsu, and Kyusho. My second Sensei taught Karate but also taught Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jujitsu, Escrima, and JKD. As I was being taught I came to realize the techniques I was learning were ones that had become banned in competitions and tournaments which is why i was told I would never be recognized by any official body. My first Sensei taught how not to become a victim my second Sensei taught how not to get killed. I also had the benefit of both my teachers were friends and even learned from each other, so when I showed interest in techniques not taught by my first Sensei he pointed me to learn from my Second Sensei while also continuing training with him. It was not until after the passing of my Sensei that I asked my Second Sensei to complete the basic training of my first Sensei to the rank of black belt while at the same time becoming a student in his style. Yet again when I showed interest in techniques not taught by my second Sensei that he encouraged me and helped me find instructors of the techniques I was interested in such as kenjitsu. Self defense wise I would have to say my second Sensei better prepared me, because three core teachings 1: anything you can do while standing you can do on the ground. 2. anything you can do empty hands you can do with your feet. 3. anything you can do empty hands you can do with a weapon (really stressing a weapon is just an extension of the body). One great thing about my both my Sensei was there willingness to adapt and change their teachings overtime. Seeing how they had taught students in the past was very different how they taught me and they said this was because overtime they had learned what just works better and applied it. They largely did this by studying with and exchanging teachings with other Sensei. This open mindedness kept them from becoming stale and instead kept them and their styles' fresh and applicable to changes in the modern world.
Same. I studied Shotokan in the late 90's and early 2000's. My first teacher would keep me after class and teach me more realistic applications. He even incorporated other styles that he had trained, including Judo, jui jitsu (almost no one knew what that was), and boxing. He had dealth with bullies as a kid, and even fought off two robbers in Spain. One had a knife. He was cut, but he was able to run them off. He was in medical school, and was teaching to support his way through college. When he left, the guy that took over the dojo was out of shape, and terrible. So I quit. I wish that I would have found a better alternative, but I switched my attention to chasing girls. I really wish that I would have stuck with martial arts.
@@letsdothis9063 I almost never even got into martial arts. I was in my late 30's and was finishing up college and I wanted to take up a hobby that would get me out of the house. My brother-law was taking martial arts and I went to one of the classes, afterwards I spoke with the Sensei about what I wanted and expected, we talked for an hour more and then I became his student. Little did I know he was friends and had even trained with the man who would become my second Sensei four years later, although during my training he did lend me training DVD's of my second Sensei. This made transitioning from the first style to the second style easier because I was already familiar with it from the DVD's, added bonus my second Sensei and I went to the same high school. After they both passed away. I decided I would not go to any other schools but would just focus on what they both taught me and add to them both, which turned out to be so much that it became its own style. A funny thing about my first Sensei was every technique began in right lead, so after 4 years of always starting in the right lead, my second Sensei began every technique in left lead, sometimes because of damaged hearing when he said get into left lead, I would got to right lead from muscle memory, to which he would say "Your other left", which is actually the name I gave to my style (which like both styles blended techniques from various styles that neither of them taught but I had learned over the years. The wonderful thing is I am now in my early 50's and I still do all 3 styles while also looking to improve on techniques with channels like this.
Sensei 1: Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jujitsu, Escrima, and JKD. Sensei 2: Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, and Kyusho. Man, don't you think that's too much? When I used to train one sensei used to teach only one martial art.
@@voozd Nor did I or my Sensei's think it was too much, especially when one understands how the names and styles given to martial arts today were just sub-divisions of older martial arts like Dait0-Ryu Akijujitsu which the Japanese masters had studied only later did they take from what they had learned to form styles of Judo, Aikido, Jujitsu, Kendo, etc in the process rejecting a lot of what they did learn. One of the goals for why my Senseis did this was to show the divisions in martial arts were not as divided as most think. Example a straight punch is the same no matter the martial art, it may vary some such as starting position , and each style has its own name for this technique but in the end the results are the same.
I trained in the late 90s and aughts in traditional jiujitsu where I learned it was heavily based on pressure testing. Maybe 25% of our training was fitness and fall safety, 30% was technique instruction and the rest of the time we were either pressure testing drills (do whatever you can think of to stop the technique we just learned) or straight sparring. Our school worked with local cops (one of our senior guys was the hand to hand instructor for our local equivalent to SWAT) and we shared facilities with a boxing gym and cross trained with them a bunch. But I was always taught that the contact and pressure emphasis was a big part of the style. I’m mind blown at the idea that other/majority of schools don’t teach pressure testing/sparring/serious resistance.
I practiced for quite a while Jiu Jitsu in Costa Rica in the 90s, and my Sensei was similar. Every single session there was sparring and pressure testing. 3+ hours sessions, 3 times per week. We kicked, punched, locked, practiced throws, rolled and so on. It had a lot of striking and, of course, Judo techniques. Also, the Sensei was always keen on learning and sharing other styles when possible (he told us to actually to try to add Karate, Boxing, Judo, etc. if possible). He also recommended us to stay fit, go for a run often and so on. I am not sure, but it seems they dont really know much about traditional or Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Anyway, good stuff.
I trained in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu for twelve years. The first four of those were dominated by strength and conditioning; cooperative practice of strikes, locks and throws; kata; and *break* *falls*. The next four mixed in bunkai, limited contact sparring and contested practice of locks and throws. It wasn't until year nine that I was encouraged to take part in sparring that was restricted only against strikes to the eyes and throat (if you weren't wearing a cup that was on you) and the reasoning was that if you were going to be going anywhere close to full speed while doing joint locks and submissions, you were going to have enough control that you could do the moves without injuring your partner. And we never, ever stopped doing the break falls.
@@ryugarai2668 Right, but more people are familiar with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and won't recognise the spelling difference. Calling it "Japanese Jujutsu" helps casual observers understand you might not be talking about the thing they are thinking of.
I was a police officer for 18 years and one thing, that lacked in our training, was self defense. There are techniques in all martial arts, which would probably help, but for me, what really helped was getting into boxing, then Jiu-jitsu. From there, I started training in an MMA class, which taught a bit of everything combined, that I'd already worked at and how to apply things, in a self defense type of situation.
@@BeefDog666: insecure guy makes an overly manly and devil worshipping username and spends time trying to alleviate his insecurity and probably criminal tendencies by writing childish insults to a respectful and intelligent comment made by a cop on a TH-cam video.
This has been tremendously helpful. I am pushing myself to get some fitness, self-defense skills, and expand my friendships beyond work and my immediate friend circles through joining a local martial arts gym soon. I've taken Aikido for several years during my high school days knowing that it had no "full-contact sparring" and I did not mind it, because I did not have that competitive spirit like others. And still don't lol. Xu Xiao Dong's situation was the one that woke me up to what is bullshido and what is not. I think I'm going to go check out my local UFC MMA gym now based on your guys' assessment. Thanks for posting! Subscribed =)
Based off my coach and my own beliefs on bjj, I believe it’s fine as a stand alone in competition and in self defense, however I believe that bjj truly shines when used in tandem with a striking martial art, boxing, muay thai so on so forth. Being used on its own in a self defense situation can work, but it’s a very versatile art that can feel as though it was made to be used as support with something meant more for power
This is great. I currently train in a blend of Goshin Jiu Jitsu and Shito ryu. We train to get in close, block hard, conditioning, joint locks and throws. We also train ground fighting.
For those who are wondering where the discussion about Pencak Silat disappeared you can find me and Ramsey Dewey discuss Pencak Silat here: th-cam.com/video/YdUxZ826KcY/w-d-xo.html
Kinda understand why you cut that out🤦 you should get ready for the incoming wave of Indonesian and Malaysian people
This is the most idiotic comment i have ever heard Japanese ju-jutsu you only train and no pressure Do you Know why they dont use it in full contact and under presure ? people die and its one of the major reasons Judo exist as Ju-jutsu , is a martial art created to kill , disable and hurt some one the most effective way . not some sport element , ju-jutsu has no rules. you want to rip some ones eyes out you do it . you need to break some ones kneecaps you do it .
There is a reason why Ju-jutsu is called the mother of all martial arts ( asian that is ) and that only competive forms are sparing , katas and fighting sysem . You go full contact many people will break limbs and some will die . Any self respecting martial arts practitioner knows this , it like bajonet fighting and shooting at targets in real life people die .
So that also awnsers your question its just training , I bet you dont even know what martial arts are and what a self defense sport is . or even the origins of martial arts or what european martial arts are. Here is a hint they are for war not for sport. a sport has rules preventing lasting or injuries. martial arts have none . nada zero null.
pukulan (poekoelan) one of the best!
What are your thoughts on sambo/ combat sambo
About Aikido it think the same as one of my former Sifu said about Kung Fu:
"Kung Fu is one of the greatest Martial Arts for Self Defense. But, if you get in a real Fight, it is useless aside your trained Reflexes and Body. It strengh lies in avoiding that Fight in the First place."
Then he taught me what not to do in a fight because it might hurt the other one really bad - stuff like "Do not rip his eyes out of his Skull" and such.
Still, in all the Streetfights I got back then, that Training did not help aside beeing physically trained. And neither did the Streetfights help me in Training or the Martial Arts Competions.
As I could stand up pretty average in the first one, I was struggling in the second one and utterly incompetent in the third one.
But, what changed was that the first ones, the Streetfights, got less rapidly and my Life got much more peaceful even though I did not change my Enviroment and most habits at all.
So, if you go for "practical use in a combat Situation on the Streets" - I guess it is useless. But, I never seen an Aikidoka in need of such a Use of their Martial Art.
Keep in mind: If someone is weaker, there is no reason to fight. If one is stronger, there is no reaon in fighting. If one is as strong as you are, you both will understand that there is no Reason in fighting each other.
There *is* one ‘S’-Tier self-defense art: Track & Field / 100m dash. 😉
I think you forgot about glockfu
It's good when you're on your own, but not the best if you are around loved ones
SS-Tier self-defense art: Persuasion 100
I give it C+ for these reasons :
1. When you are on the ground, you can't run.
2. When you are held, you can't run.
3. When you can't abandon your love ones, you can't run.
4. When there is no space, you can't run.
5. When you are slower,, running is useless.
@@drewcasper4608 In my country, Thailand, people are not alllowed carrying guns.
Ever so casually, Icy Mike gave us one of the best thoughts about self-defense:
"You need to be really amazing at one specific thing, and be good enough at everything else to funnel people to that".
Agreed
This a fantastic quote and rings very true.
@@MartialArtsJourney that is how basically Khabib fights
Greco-Roman is fantastic for a street fight. If you can't get the guy to the ground, you BJJ won't mean a whole lot. A suplex on the concrete is game over. My buddy threw a dude over the bar in a scrap. A quick hip toss and the fight was done. But, it all depends. You can clipped with a hook, knee, upper cut, etc...on the way in.
That glorious hairless head can think hard.
I agree 100% that one of your best self-defense skills is verbal de-escalation. I've worked in the military, high-risk security and VIP protection and in all areas verbal de-escalation has played the biggest role. As a trainer, I used to tell new guys that the best martial art was a verbal judo class. You can't lose a fight that doesn't start. You also can't get sued for it. People don't think about it, but if you beat the crap out of a guy and then the civil court finds out that you've studied ten different martial arts and fought amateur MMA...things don't look quite so rosy for you if you didn't make every effort to de-escalate first.
Does that include a man intent on assaulting a woman? I’m probably wrong but since they are mostly about power and control and almost always nothing to do with sexual desire verbal de-escalation is probably unlikely. Especially since in this situation you may be 3/4 of the way past deep doo doo before you even realize you’re in deep doo doo.
Exactly. And one of the others is running away.
best self defense is buying a gun 🌚
@@b1822 Until someone or your kids took it from you...
Problem is: psychopathic predators don't "escalate". So you won't have an opportunity to "de-escalate". If you are still talking, violence is not warranted. If you're attacked, defending yourself is not "violence"
I'm 70 years old. I currently hold Black Belts in Taekwon-Do, and Shotokan Karate and have 25 years of Yang style Taichi Chuan. I joined organized martial arts when I was in my early 40's. I did so for exercise. Having said that I started fighting when I was around 10 years old. School yard fights, back alley scraps and later parking lot fights when the bars closed. I had many many fights in my early 20's and 30's. I have an Anxiety Disorder that manifests itself as anger. Consequentially I ended up in prison in my early 20's. But that is another story. I have been beaten so severely that my own father didn't recognize me. In my early 40's I decided to start with organized martial arts for exercise. And first started playing Tai Chi Chuan and then gravitated to Taekwon-Do and Katate with a bit of Judo thrown in. I found that organized martial arts helped me with my anxiety which in turn helped me with the anger issues. OK. But I never viewed, and still do not view, organized martial arts as a form of self-defense other than how it helps me emotionally. Organized Martial Arts from what I've seen is concerned with rules and is generally sports orientated. Which, I suppose, is the the most effective form of self defense. "Defending oneself from our greatest enemy which is the one that lives inside of us." But that is "waxing philosophical". As a martial arts instructor I have taught self defense classes. But those have nothing to do with any type of organized Martial Arts. Self defense is defending yourself. It is fast, dirty and get out of there as quickly as possible. And it is not "fighting". Do what you have to/need to, to get out of the situation. If possible do not allow your assailant to grab onto you but if they do you need to eye gouge, bite, or stab them with whatever is at hand. The second step of self defense is "Don't put yourself in the position to get hurt in the first place." That is the second step because the first step in 'self defense' is learning to believe that you are actually worthy and therefore you deserved to be defended and take care of yourself. Don't put yourself in harms way. As I mentioned I've fought, I've fought hard, I've kicked and bit and been kicked and bitten. I've run away to fight another day. People need to stop confusing organized Martial Arts as self defense. There is no "tapout" when you get assaulted in an alley. There is no ref or corner judge or coach.
Corollary: You have no idea what that man you don’t know is capable of.
One of the reasons my school doesn't teach tournament sparring - muscle memory trained in specific rules and level of force will not help you if you are fighting against it when you need it. Sure we spar and tag each other decently wearing pads so we don't serious damage, but otherwise we keep it only organized in the sense of standard dojang traditions - strength, cardio building, forms, defense techniques - but otherwise it can be pretty improvisory in application when we play around.
how can i contact you. i need advice and i can pay for that
@@harryohrn6051 I took a college class in self defense and the instructor swore on shotokan. He had a dojo with a partner. Some of the SD was good. They mock attack a student in the parking lot but he was warned against it, because they got reported..lol not in my class prior classes. He was a former police officer.
Try CBD and or anxiety meds. Some try the real herb in low doses..CBTs for anxiety are secondary..
You won't win any tournaments. It is may help you get out and run for help or cover. If you go toe to toe an old guy like me will lose anyway..you gotta break something and split. If they grab you work with it for the next move.
Thinking of signing up again but everything is expensive..
@@harryohrn6051is muy Thai of any value? How abouts kenpi? I think boxing is of value, but I don't like the dancing, around. I don't like the ducking punches. I am so short if they catch me ducking they will just jump on top of me push me down or something dirty. I also hate the ethnic pride bull.
As a former Wrestler with 11+ years of experience, I think one of our biggest issues in a self defense situation is how vulnerable we can become to outside interference in an actual street fight. If you are getting in a fight, chances are there are going to be more that just you and your opponent there. There is a high likelihood that as soon as you take a guy down and start clubbing him with your fists (we don't know what punching is), his friends are gonna come in and kick you square in your head, and next thing you know you are getting jumped. While I think this is a pretty universal weakness in grappling in general, I think other martial arts/ self defense systems are more equipped to deal with something like that. If we had to rank the best SUPPLIMENTARY martial arts, I think wrestling and a lot of grappling arts would rank pretty high, but by themselves, there are a lot of dangerous holes for a self defense situation.
ya I got jumped after I hip tossed a dude and was on top ground and pounding his friend came up and kicked me in the face big issue then got jumped so personal experience but its true
I had this exact thing happen to me. I had tripped a guy and got on top of him and instantly got kicked in the throat by his friends was a terrible situation to be in lol
If I percieve more than one person, thats when the pen or pencil in my pocket comes out.. one on one, if the guy doesnt have grappling experience, he is toast.
the biggest issue is the slow thinking in play, you decided bare hands while you got car keys on your pocket in the first place, a pen or pencil can do it too. always look out for anything is the key, you can even find a brick to bash their head. theres a reason why i always carry a bag with only 1 book with me so i can block sharp objects (its a habit, i came from a city with a school war tradition who fights with sharp weapons) i did taekwondo and boxing, but only a fool fight bare hands in the street you just simply do not do that (but who am i to say such things i knew about punching people first before doing any martial arts so maybe its just another habit)
@@spacey9707 my FIRST thought when I am about to throw down in a street is always "does this guy have friends and or weapons and if so how do I neutralize this?"... sometimes the art of talking is best lol. but i'm prepared to do the worst, to ensure my or my loved ones safety, so talking is my preferred route.. for BOTH our sakes.
I have a real life example regarding boxing and wrestling.
Two friends were involved a fighting vs a larger group of people (sort of self-defense situation, as they may or may not have had option to run away). One was trained boxing, one was trained wrestling. One on one, the wrestler would destroy the boxer, but in that fight, the boxer was unharmed (knocked out few attackers in fact), the wrestler was badly injured because he took the fight to ground (he knocked one guy out, but was beaten by the the group).
If there are multiple people involved, don't go down ground.
Very interesting
i was surprised how low they ranked boxing and i am a grappler
My friend, your imagination is grade A1. Outstanding. LOL.
@@TyGosketch
I didn't know I have super power to make reality. I was talking to real person face to face, and we touched fists.
You can choose to believe me or not, after all, I'm only a random dude on the internet.
Was boxer a golden gloves champ with some brain cells? Was wrestler a JV wrestler who couldn't get a starting spot to save his life. Here's another story for you. Had 2 friends one was a folk style wrestler other guy did muay Thai. Muay Thai guy got mobbed and brought down by 5 dudes got the shit kicked out of him. The wrestler hit a few dudes with the ground knocked some of them out. They tried mobbing the wrestler but since getting up off the ground and escaping is a required skill he was able to fight off the group.
This was so easy to watch. I started it without looking at the length and about 20 min in realized what I signed up for lol
I am happy that I wrestled in HS for 4 yrs and that coupled with Army Combatives training has always made me at least a little more confident in my ability to defend myself and my loved ones. I don't want to give anyone too much false hope, but even simply being the first to calmly step up can easily turn people away from wanting to fight you. I've stepped up to groups of 2 or 3 dudes who wanted to do harm to someone else on multiple occasions and they turn away with a remark. Nobody wants to fight someone who's calm and confident.
it is true what you said, confidence has a huge role in defining a situation, but to be actually capable is to some degree a concrete confidence that will be shown, so better be actually competent than looking like one.
@@blahhdelmygmailcom you’re right and it’s not always the right move to step up at all. I did put the disclaimer in there that I wasn’t trying to give too much false hope lol All anyone can do is trust their training, knowledge and instinct to make the right call.
@@tmauntler Active self protection channel on youtube talks about this.. 3rd party encounters, be VERY careful, because you don't know who either person is or what it's about or what they're capable of. But if there's something happening where you don't think you can look yourself in the eye ever again if you let it happen, of course you do what you have to, but he generally advises to stay out
@@Drikkerbadevand lol well, they were all people I knew/loved being targeted in ways I couldn't turn from. I agree that not knowing context can simply make things worse
This is why I always defend aikido as a useful practice. I've literally had people try to punch, grab, or kick me thousands of times and am so desensitized to bodily threats that I'm not going to freeze up in a bad situation. I've trained people who don't have that experience and it's really sad how vulnerable they are psychically (I mean sad in an empathic way, there are a lot of reasons to be that way).
I'm a south African and have been in a mugging situation twice in Cape Town. I never knew instinctively that If I where to find myself in that situation weather I would have a fight or flight/freeze reaction. I practiced wing-chun forms for many hundreds of hours before these incidents. IE: The forms where wired into my brain like a musician's instrument. The first incident happened when my dumbass wanted to take nighttime photography of the town during a misty night. (dont do that in SA). I was jumped by two guys and I responded so quickly that I surprised myself. I always trained to use palms and fingers to the face and fists to the solar plexus. Because of my hard wired training and explosive reaction I managed to mess both guys up and escape with my camera, which was my source of income at the point. I probably would not have responded the way I did if it was not. The guy who thought he was a flight man became a martial artist in a second. (this sounds lame but it's true). The second time I was much more aware of my situation and as the assailant reached into his hoody pocket for his weapon blood was coming out of his nose. I did not stick around in either situation. I acted very swiftly and left just as swiftly. I was fitter and stronger back then but I know that those neural pathways are still in my brain and my body will react without much thought. I dont need to bench the whole gym if I can stick my finger in someone's eye; they don't want to play when they are blind. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk.
As someone who has unfortunately been in alot of fights, something I've noticed is that grappling pretty much always comes into play, even when neither myself or an opponent(s) intended to. You're in a survival mindset, you get close to somebody attacking you, and you instinctively grab and hold. Grappling training with a basic knowledge of striking is your best bet in a life or death hand to hand situation. Boxing is great but the candid videos you see of dudes lighting someone up on the feet, is in reality, a small fraction of street fight's outcomes. I took capoeira for 5 years, and I agree with what they said 100%, one thing they missed in it's favor, is the understanding of measuring and rhythm it gives you, which if a fight goes long enough on the feet (>30 secs), is a HUGE benefit to your safety and success.
That being said, there's no great defense for a bullet.
The best fight is one you just don't get into.
Grappling is very important
I have dabbled in several martial arts over the years...they make a very valid point...the one I learned the most in was the one where I got punched in the face. 😁
@@eugeneaddison2851 getting punched in the face definitely teaches you alot!😅
IMHO Capoeira, because of its multi directional movement and ability to control space, is better at defending against multiple opponents than on a one on one situation.
@@XieTianXieDi888 I agree! It can be devastating to multiple opponents when executed properly!
I was like "I'm not about to watch an 1:23:14 long video, so I'll just click on the ones i want to hear about" and then i clicked on every martial art out of order and watched the entire video lol
Haha, cool
lmao same
I didn’t even realize it was over an hour long 💀
same!
same lol
No need to watch… we all know AMERIDOTE is on top!!! 👊
Just kidding, Karate of course 😇
Oh no, we forgot to put AMERIDOTE on the list! But yeah you are right... It's obvious Ameridote would be an S
Only really need to learn the sidekick
@@MartialArtsJourney you need to make video with master Ken, he will explain why everything on the list is BS
Correct answer is actually gun-fu as made popular in the late 90's. John Woo for the win.
@@RenzDavis it's with guns so it doesn't count... still Amerido-te beats Gun-fu every time
I think a factor a lot of people don't consider with codified martial arts systems is that quite often if they have a competitive sport scene, the teaching will often be optimized and gamified for the rules of that sport rather than winning a real fight.
Someone who is really well trained in a competitive martial art is going to instinctively avoid stuff that would get them disqualified like groin shots, eye gouges, rabbit punches, illegal chokes, etc. and conversely not have any training to defend against those sort of moves because in a competitive context they aren't expecting to encounter those moves. And your goal as a competitive fighter is to score points within the rules, not potentially maim your opponent. Someone like a Muhammed Ali or a Sugar Ray Leonard who were all time greats in a boxing ring might not have done so well in a street fight, since a lot of their tactics were optimized for scoring points, and wearing an opponent down over many rounds with breaks in between. Not saying all boxers would do poorly, a good pressure fighter might do insanely well for example.
I find it interesting to look at the roots of different arts, and see how they started, like a good example is wrestling since going back through European fight manuals from medieval/renaissance era sources, almost all of them have some mention or even a whole section about grappling/wrestling. I've heard striking with fists was mostly alien to medieval europeans because 1, Everybody had knives, so why not just use that, and 2, striking with unwrapped fists was a good way to break bones in your hand, which is a very scary prospect in a pre penicillin world. Wrestling has a long tradition in basically every part of Europe going back to antiquity, and has never really died out, which to me says it has value as a system.
With something like TKD or Karate, those ones on the other hand are very much divorced from their roots and can be best compared to something like Sport Fencing vs actual sword fighting, where they are so completely gamified that they have basically nothing to do with fighting anymore. Just like sport fencing, at one point they were based on real martial arts, but over time as they became more watered down to make them safe enough for competition and as the rules changed over the years they just ceased to be anything similar to fighting and became more of a game.
I think at the end of the day, he is right about the economic aspect, because anyone who is SERIOUSLY worried about self defense could either spend hundreds of dollars and years training at a gym, stay in shape, and maybe be able to handle themselves when the time comes, or take that same money, and go buy a gun, and beat almost anyone with a significantly lower learning curve, (even if they aren't actually as safe as they think, as that gun is just as likely to be turned on them, or cause some collateral damage, or any other number of issues that creates)
My japanese Jiu Jitsu club was excellent. I think mainly due to our instructor though... he had black belts in multiple martial arts and used to encourage us to go train at other clubs. He said we may learn techniques that work for us, but was confident that at worst we'd appreciate our club more.
He also said if we learned something cool somewhere else, he wanted us to show it at our club and see if it was viable. He was a pretty cool instructor.
I feel like og jujutsu has the best mentality of being the most open minded in situations as it's similar in fashion to wrestling historically and mma but gets too defensive based. Whereas you need to use it against resistance and attackers at full force.
@@NeroAngelo616 the Ryu of Japanese Jiu Jitsu I studied as a child in Penang had offensive moves and weapons.. we were taught Weapons before we learned empty hand techniques, some thing I have done over the last 35 years of Instructing
I have seen JJJ videos and it appears to be a complete system.
@@THE_Secular_Conservative It's one of the oldest arts as most martial arts are a refined piece of it extended down from the 20th century onwards. Og Jujutsu was a piece of the Samurai.
@@NeroAngelo616 It looks cool. My current Gracie Jiu-jitsu instructor was a student of Japanese Jiu-jitsu for many years.
Rokas, we need more tier lists. I'm loving it. It was great how carefully you guys discussed the advantages and disadvantages of each style.
does this baldy have good experience in every one of them? He is commenting like he knows them all
@@yesiaskedhe does. He knows well what he's talking about
@@yesiaskedyup basically, he even mentioned his past experiences multiple times throughout the whole video, idk how you missed that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As someone who wrestled for 15 years it really makes me happy to finally hear it included in a "top martial arts" discussion... always feels like it gets left out but you guys summed it up perfectly.
bro do you live under a rock? i never did anything martial whatsoever, i am a super-casual mma pseudo-fan, and even i have heard countless times that wrestling is the shit - makes you durable, strong af, physically and mentally tough, and "most of the top mma-fighters come from wrestling" (probably heard it from Rogan)
@@jaromor8808 lol I might as well be living under a rock, haven't watched MMA for quite a while. Last I was watching the only thing anyone talked about was BJJ.
@@nein62 I'm sure you have seen Khabib when he was dominating MMA. He was a tough wrestler.
Now there is this guy called Khamzat, and he is a scary dude making his fights look like he is fighting amateurs, and I believe he is a tough wrestler.
Wrestling and judo are easily the best grappling martial arts for self defence and wrestling is the best for MMA. One throw on concrete is all it takes to ko someone a double leg that leaves you in the top position gives you the perfect opportunity to strike someone and finish them
Perfectly how,there's no strikes or submissions in plain old wrestling and in a streetfight it's useless against multiple people. Do you know how stupid you're gonna look just going for a double leg over n over? You can easily get hit by someone else while you're grappling. No way it's an S.
Thought I saw Aikido over BJJ in the thumbnail and I nearly had a stroke 💀
That would be true if only Steven Seagal was considered.
Then again, no one would be alive to witness it. 😂
Lmao
@@Shadow__133 steven seagal is a fucking clown and a professional bullshiter
You did
i'Kiddo, but it gets all the style points though.
I’ve trained three years of Muay Thai and after traveling around to different dojos in the U.S, the biggest issue is tradition vs. fitness. So many people try to compete locally and although their cardio is excellent and they are muscular, their technique is lacking. Striking a balance between the two is important.
Exactly. I was shopping for quality Muay Thai training and most dojos were based on exercise. Found one that was tradition/Thai way. He trained in Thailand, got certified in Thailand, and fought in Thailand. Everyone really needs to research a new dojo as well as the teacher(s).
@Austin Batton he called a Muay Thai gym a dojo lmfao
in Thailand i wouldn't even touch a muay Thai fighter
Understanding where it hurts to get hit on the human body is essential. I got beat up a few times and then realized where it hurt and used that technique back on those who bullied me. I only won about a dozen street fights in my life.
The fk do you mean "tradition"? Muai thai is a sport form that actively bans most moves used in the actual martial art called muai boran.
My parents forcing me to go to Muay Thai and MMA classes literally saved my life several times. Once a guy kept messing with me, long story short he started to hit me and I low kicked into his upper thigh and that was it. They left me alone and stopped hanging around my school, no clue if they would have jumped me but I booked it once he stopped attacking.
Another time was at a party and it never moved past pushing but once I took a stance and got ready to be hit the guy said nope and stopped right there, he was way bigger and in better shape but that confidence my parents installed into through forced classes has no doubt saved me.
I was never a bully just the quiet ackward person I am today but WAY smaller. Thank you Mom and Dad, anyone on the fence do it, get in there and learn. Don't do it to fight, do it so you can defend yourself when forced to fight. Good luck friends and great video.
@@Tyborzthat’s most “mma” nowadays but really what they should be doing is teaching how to use them in an mma match (rules where you can strike, grapple and ground fight)
Yeap, the confident eye, that's something that has saved me many times. I've done some Tae Kwon Do when I was younger and although there are plenty of guys out there than can beat me, I'm so confident and calculative when the fighting starts that people get discouraged and immediately back down.
@@Tyborzbro stop glazing
Thankl your parents. After doing karate for a lesson I got into a fight in school and my parents pulled me from the lessons. After that I was always getting punched trough out high school.
You probs have early/undiagnosed cte
Fun fact: greco-roman grappling techniques were developed to be used in real combat situation (particularly in war) and we have historical records of those techniques being actually used in battle.
Possibly a small point, but it would have been nice if theyd specified which type of wrestling they were referring to.
@@ronfox5519 greco-roman , don't know what "type" of wrestling it is ?
@@lovelife1867 We don't know, the sources jusy say "wrestling". A famous case (and also a quite lqte one, since it happens in late antiquity) is that of Andreas, in The Battle of Dara, under the command of Belisarius.
@@ronfox5519 That happens all the time. We now have these typologies of swords, weapons and techniques, these specific categorizations, and ancient and medieval chroniclers just write "sword", "spear", "wrestling". The only marked differentiation that we get from ancient sources is πάλη (Pálē -wrestling-) from πανκράτιον (pankátrion -a form akin to modern mma).
@@jarlbregadan914 same shit different names. They all learned the same thing, and it all falls under the same umbrella. Complicating this is like discussing lineages with kung fu freak nerds.
I'm looking for a new hobby, and landed on martial arts and found this video with a cursory search on youtube. You guys play off each other well, and I watched beyond the specific styles I was interested in. About to browse the rest of your channel!
The clinch work comment is understatement. Clinch work is so beautifully useful for closing distance that many striking arts don't realize they need....some will literally stall up wondering what to do next. That clinch can be such a game changer.
They are talking about self defence. In the streets clinching will probably get you stabbed even by guys who don´t even have the balls to cut you on their own.
Yes so true.. There is a lot of places that teach Muay Thai don’t spend enough time teaching the clinch IMO
@@kriscrystaline9793 I agree they focus too much on the striking/k1 aspect of it and don’t utilise the clinch
Great video!
As a Muay Thai instructor/practitioner for 20+ years I learned a painful lesson against a wrestler. He caught my kick and dumped me on my ass. It was a real eye opener for me. I asked the wrestler to teach me how to stop that and defend against the shoot. I started to add take down defense in class. I would point out the weaknesses of Muay Thai to my students and make sure they were aware of them as well as ring fighting vs street fighting. At the time I was teaching stand up at a Daniel Moraes BJJ school so many of the students would take both so they could help fill the gaps in their games.
In a street fight with no rules, with unpredictable outcomes, fighters will get more advantages if they know other combat techniques.
Haha, the unseen weapons of wrestlers are gravity and Mother Earth 😁
They can easily break bonesssssss with any throw on the concrete ☠
Excellent performance
In street fight, dont ever knee or leg. Use clinch and elbows. Your mistake is to try to kick a wrestler. If a wrestler tries to grab you, use clinch to give you advantages and cut his head with your elbow,.
You know.... this is basically first month of Karate Shotokan or whenever Mae Geri is introduced. Take leg even faster then you threw or when it gets caught you are toast. Usually done by sensei.
Icy Mike is basically saying the same thing I've been thinking about while considering a martial art to get into. Being REALLY good at one and exceptionally well at others to compliment what you are really good at. Kind of like mixing a striking art like Taekwondo with some Muay Thai and a takedown and groundwork art like wrestling or jui-jitsu.
yea i did TKD at the age of 8-14 and still continue
i thought of BJJ but now that i see this list i feel like there are 3 other better ones (in A/-A/B list)
Taekwando is mostly a waste of time.
@@cslife6666 not entirely but if you looked at it compared to the other martial arts then yes
How about a gun or a martial art that gets a person ready to defend themselves in a short amount of time by exploiting natural weaknesses?
@@charzanboo9940 if time is your limiting factor, just buy a pistol. The problem with training something that teaches "natural weaknesses" is that it's highly technical (stuff like joint manipulation, pressure points, understanding balance/center of gravity, etc.,) and that takes *a ton* of time for it to be realistically useable under pressure.
If you want the overall (in my opinion) best combination of martial arts for self defense, I'd say learn wrestling (catch wrestling ideally, but less common) and muay thai.
¡Gracias!
Thank you 🙏
Thanks for conveying what I meant, Mike. People are always surprised when I mention that about Aikido at first. Haha
Aikido is actually less than worthless as it can get you harmed if you try to use Aikido when attacked. Better you realize you know nothing and run!
I do want to point out that Aikido is one of the martial arts used by the Japanese police to incapacitate perpetrators in Japan in combination with other Japanese martial arts in a system they call taiho jutsu(which literally translates arrest technique). You can see the influence of Aikido along with Judo in taiho jutsu in this video:
th-cam.com/video/hBwB1-GqjXk/w-d-xo.html
@@christopherknight3942 There is a big difference between facing someone to fight them and trying to use Aikido and being a Police Officer and having someone on the ground and using a joint lock. Keep in mind that Aikido will get a person hurt in a real fight. Aikido was created for "show" not "go"
@@johnreidy2804 Aikido's predecessor Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu has been around for hundreds of years and includes long and short sword training. Aikido because of it's defensive philosophy is a watered down version of it but includes many of the same joint locks you find in Daito Ryu. The application of it's techniques are situational just like Krav Maga but because of it's limited nature(purely defensive with no strikes or grappling) is best used with other martial arts just like taiho jutsu. I like being a complete fighter myself and have trained in different martial arts and can attest that some of the techniques aikido or it's Korean equivalent hapkido teaches is indeed quite effective even against a larger opponent resisting in certain situations.
@@christopherknight3942 Aikido is worthless and its Korean equivalent is NOT Hapkido which is effective. If you think I'm wrong go pull up a video where two people face off and the Aikido guy wins. You won't find one unless its just for laughs. The creator of Aikido Ushebi even said it was for show. The word Aikido even means "harmony and together". Its basically a choreographed dance friend. Really it's not what some think it is.
Most streetfights i've seen were boxing matches, i know boxing is limited but i still think they massively underrated it.
They did. Boxing is easily A Tier or higher. The issues with BJJ is it only works 1 on 1. And even if you think it's 1 on 1, it may not be if the guy has a buddy role up. Never go to the ground if you don't have to
boxing should be higher on the list.
I tend to agree. I read a quote from a pro boxer once. He said that most people think of the sport version of boxing when they dismiss it as a self-defence system. However, experienced boxers know how to use elbows in close, know how to strike vital targets that normally aren't allowed, know how to clinch effectively... They just don't get to use these techniques in competition.
If a boxer taught himself a few basic kicks and grapples, he would be pretty formidable.
The footwork and positioning learned is so very important!@@jcadwell1172
Yeah, but boxing doesn't teach kicks and grapples. If you teach a judoka basic kicks and punches, he would be just as if not a harder opponent than boxing with basic kicks and grapples. I mean one on one, the boxer needs to be very good at keeping distance or get a really good hit, before a grappler gets close. Because as soon as the grappler gets close it's over.
Having grown up in one of the most dangerous part of my town in poland and seeing people geting jumped on daily, this list is very odd. I think it all comes down to the viciousness and fact that theres usually more than 1 opponent. Kickboxing and muay thai always was the king and fellas who were training those faired by far the best.
Visciousness yeh I agree. Also fear management those things can’t necessarily be taught
@@alexanderstevens145 This is huge, i think they did mention it a bit in the clip, but you need to be ready to get hit, multiple times. Whatever you train, however good you may think you are, there will be pain.
But how often do you face collegiate level wrestler in a Poland street fight. I rather face a striker than get punched by the earth.
@@UrBoyTaz While you are right, if your opponent is a vicious monkey who doesnt care about your life, and your takedown try is literally a coin flip with better odds due to your training (seen too many wrestlers not being able to take people down to change my mind), id rather stick to standup. Life isnt gym mat.
Agreed. They obviously have a grappling bias as most sport fighters do. Would love to see a grappler take on multiple opponents or deal with small joint manipulation, blades, biting, etc.
I would love to see Mike fighting some practitioner of every martial art here... Would be awesome.
He couldn't fight sleep
@@tsaxondale2499 he would learn 1 thing or 2... Haha
he has and lost
I trained aikodo when i was a teenager and my master was also doing kyokhusin pretty seriously. He was always very upfront about the fact that even he as a blackbelt couldnt and wouldnt try to pull off any aikido based-move in a real fight, he would rather hit and low-kick. The founder of aikido also required originally that his students must be a black belt in some other martial art like judo or karate. I mean if your aikido master is not a self-righteous ego inflated man, it is definetly be a different experience than in the bullshido videos. From the first days of my training it was very clear to me that it wont help me in a real life situation, but i've learned so much about physics in a sense that i really started to feel how you can turn a straight force to a circular orbit. I think if someone is trained in other, more concrete and effective martial arts, aikido could be sort of an elevated, more abstract addition to their feel within a fight if you know what i mean. If you only do aikido you dont stand a chance, but it is still a very interesting thing to do.
It's a waste of time, stop dancing around.
@@cslife6666 You havent even read what i have written, have you my boy?:D
Supplemental? Redirecting opponents would work great with multiple opponents as far as I can tell. Wrestling came from medieval knights which were TANKS so they didn't really worry a out that 3rd person as far as I know.
@@Jd-zl7mn Except you're not redirecting anything cause it's not real, your opponent doesn't resist, drop your ego, I'm trying to help you, go try 1 BJJ session u will see the truth, nothing works against multiple.
@@cslife6666 its not ego just trying to find uses. Planning on getting into HEMA.
Judo is very underrated as self defense, slamming a guy on the ground usually just takes the person out, if you're not careful you may hurt his head depend on where it lands, the thing about judo, I always ask my sensei to teach me no-gi throws because not everyone will be wearing jackets for you to perform that.
I think Judo + some striking techniques are enough for self-defense/street fight.
It provides throws, ground works, chokes, joint locks, sweeps, holdings and strikings enough for a regular person.
One thing about street fights/anything outside a competition or sparring session? The ground is typically a LOT harder.
Seriously. Getting slammed on a hard floor is not fun. And concrete? Just call the ambulance already.
It's also really good because it has some of the most practical training/sparring of any sport so it really helps you stay in control in these situations
Rather than learning Judo you should learn Combat Sambo. It's essentially Judo, Kickboxing and Wrestling together.
@@PeaceDweller depends why you’re learning martial arts. Sambo isn’t as popular or accessible and outside of Russia and it’s neighbours the quality of the coaching isn’t consistent. I like judo because of the respect, rules and uniqueness of its style. Self Defense wise sambo is good but it is also very technical with limited sparring because it is not as common so in practical in-the-moment testing it’s not as strong.
I trained in Japanese ju-jitsu for 3 years and we full contact sparred in every class, both standing and ground. There was a degree of weapons training that was mostly knife and sword work. I consider myself very lucky because I was worried that it was a mcdojo. I had a mugging confrontation and the techniques in that class saved me getting my ass beat.
did you use the opportunity to kick their ass though?
What kind of sparring? Like Judo style throws and pins type?
We used to do the same in aikido. Messing with rubber knives, marker pens and plastic bottles.
It sounds funny but helps immensely with timing and situational awareness. You also realize how many times an aggressive opponent "marks" you.
Yea bjj sadly took over because over hype but traditional jujitsu is pretty handy to train in
@@Brett-yq7pj
Really just different branches of the same tree. Also depends a lot on the school and what they focus on.
I worked security for over 20yrs in bars, clubs and concerts, many martial arts experts in self defense experts I worked alongside fared worse than the naturally big rugby player types whose sheer physicality won the day
There's no substitute for size and weight.
Yeah like 8 months late but even GSP said something about that when he was a bouncer
While I dont think you're wrong, physicality and size definitely help, especially when combined with near reckless abandon to get control of someone.
I do however roll with a few rugby players in bjj. Strong as hell and yes I do think strength is a technique. But, I'm closing in on 47 yrs old quickly and stand 6 ft at 205 lbs. While the rugby guys tend to be really difficult to get position on, at least the ones I roll with are susceptible to submissions in scrambles.
@geoffas we used to say "there's no replacement for displacement"
8:38 In my experience with Gracie BJJ, we'd usually do 1 hour of lessons & drills, followed by 1 hour of free rolling with pressure. The rolling was done from Day 1, but they'd go relatively easy on you until you're ready for more. It was a safe environment to be progressively challenged.
I'm challenged!
That sound like sport bjj.
I was in gjj' combative class, there was not rolling. You need to go to gi or nogi class to roll.
@@Kris10000 I don't think every Gracie academy or Gracie Garage is doing the exact same thing.
God damn that sounds like fun, 2 hours of balanced BJJ like that would be the highlight of my week
That is incredible amazing
Here in eastern europe countries there are a lot of street fights as you can guess and there are also alot of Judokas and I can tell you especially a Judoka against a non trained person is devastating. Judo is really dangerous in a street fight, usually 1 throw and it's over as most of the times an untrained person wouldn't know how to land and would hurt themselves pretty badly
Well the truth is all martial arts is useful against an untrained person
As Icy Mike said, Judo is better for stand-up fighting in a self-defense situation than BJJ is, but BJJ is better at ground fighting than Judo. That said, in my opinion, it is preferable to keep yourself standing in a self-defense situation than going to the ground if you can, and Judo more or less allows that.
@@ig-8892 bij = judo. Check their background. Gracie family were thought judo. Not jiujitsu Wich never made it to Brazil. It is judo and teaches the same curriculum. Judo has the same ground game. Just not in competition.
Might i add judo is the sport version of jiujitsu (military fighting). It being a sport means that its main focus is NOT to hurt your opponent. It's literally the soft path. Jiujitsu practitioners will throw you head first into the ground. Result death. It's no joke. A good judo guy can throw you and knock you out.
But judo teaches all the throws,holds,locks,chockes,passes ECT. Because BJJ = Judo
@@glowNINE But Judo will take out the untrained in a move easy and I've used it in real fights subduing a person and Army sparing where I just could not stop myself from throwing full speed which knocked the guy almost out and out of it for a good amount of time.
But correct I know from WWII British commando Karate can kill in one blow.
True, I was knocked few times by judoist thats was fast and gravitation was devastating
A Navy Seal once said the two best MAs to learn for self-defense that're available to the public are boxing and BJJ/GJJ, simply due to the fact they're highly effective even with the worst instructors.
what is not available to public?
@@Akasxh I don't know. I'm only aware of the public ones. I'm guessing there's some advanced CQC training when you're a Navy Seal or something?
@@Liberum69 I don't think that's necessarily the case. The most effective martial arts will already be known of. Most military martial arts will be ones that can be taught quickly because they have to spend so much time training other things and the chances of hand to hand combat in warfare involving no weapons is very unlikely.
@@abcdefksohfosuh9024 That makes sense. And it explains his practical suggestion of boxing and BJJ, too, as they become useful very, very quickly, and it's easy to find somewhat competent trainers in most places, unlike most MAs.
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
I loved the way you used your Aikido against multiple attackers in the SD contest.
I personally prefer striking forms in real life street fighting situations because usually there are multiple aggressors. With striking you can maintain distance and you don't always have to fully supress your opponent(s) to defend yourself. Often 1 or 2 strikes are enough to deter or put doubt in your opponents' mind, giving you a window opportunity to walk/run away. With grappling, too often you need to fully commit and you can only target one at a time and end up on the ground only to end up being surrounded.
When choosing where to train, look for dojo/gyms with a master who has a lot of experience at competition level that also offers full contact sparring.
That's why you should train multiple like muay thai and bjj if you could get good at both of those you will be extremely dangerous in a street fight
Why boxing is best for this
@@WTFNoobProductions muay thai would be the best for street fighting if its multiple opponents
@@conorcrawford8311 That's a great combination
@@Baci302 Boxing and wrestling for me is the supreme combo for self defence
This is a great video. I got up to a 2nd degree in Aikido like you, but was able to experience both out of Japan and then in Japan. In Cali, training was very formal, ritualistic, and technique performance-based versus in Japan, where my sensei always started from the hardest position, with the opponent resisting. It was the polar opposite but showed me the value of feedback via increasing levels of noncompliance.
I love seeing how MAJ has grown over the years and how humble he has become. Remember when his channel was all Aikido and how awesome it is?
And it takes a lot to make yourself reconsider and then publicly announce that. Good man, indeed.
@Ravi Verma this channel
S-Tier: A gun
F because they’re illegal in my country and I don’t want to kill anyone.
The duality of how sport can wash away BS but also water down a martial art is quite an interesting thing to think about.
i was thinking the same thing. from one side sport allows to pressure test the art and produce strong athlete but to pressure test the art it's hisk risk techniques have to be removed in order to practice the art somehow safely. then again if we were to practice self defence it would always be partial and a lot of it couldn't be tested anyway so we are probably still better of practicing sports like wrestling, judo, bjj etc. but it obviously can get to the point of taekwondo where sport gets so ridiculous that it become patting contest. ps: the good taekwondo that they talked about is ITF and it still sucks- in competition strong kicks nd punches are not allowed and actual class consists of at least 50% patterns training(kata).
This lies in how we decide the rules within the sport
I find this interesting as as well. The competition process makes the martial art effective but the ruleset can breed bad habits for free fighting.
Pulling guard in a street fight is the classic example.
Yeah I thought that was a good conversation and then it sort of went out the window for TKD. All the other sport arts made it to at least C- I appreciate this list more than others I’ve seen.
I disagree about Escrima, I did a year of it at that point in my life and was attacked by a guy with a knife and was able to disarm him after getting stabbed once in the arm and slashed on the ribs. Those drills saved my life because it was dark and one of my contact lenses got knocked out in the scuffle. It could also have been the 16 years of karate, 3 years of BJJ, 1 year of Muay Thai and was teaching gymnastics in my twenties. All I saw were flashes of silver and had no time to think it was just reactions burned into me from repetition.
you got cut, but least nothing too vital
@@evanmcclure67 not sure if this is what you mean but no matter the art you’re probably getting cut.
@@Genktarov I'm saying you're gonna take damage if you're dealing with a knife. I'd rather get sliced or cut on my arm than my kidney
It's interesting huh, I could actually see the key in one guys hand when he went to punch me one time it's like super vision
@@davidherron3136 Yeah it was weird because it was fast but in the moment time slowed down.
I did Krav Maga in the UK for many years. Interestingly we were taught most of the things that you say others lacked, but the instructor did break away from the main Krav Maga group (I think it was Krav Maga Worldwide) and formed his own.
We did pressure testing very regularly, and we also sparred often. Most importantly, he would stress that the first option is always to avoid the fight in the first place if you can (including role playing situations), and we even covered after the fight - the legal aspects and talking to police / emergency services. I feel very fortunate to have found one of the better instructors, especially after seeing the dreadful “combat krav maga” online.
What's wrong with what you call "combat krav maga? :o
Is it an organization or something?
krav maga is not even a real martial art, it is copied mostly from everything else ... mostly a bad copy!
My instructor did this too and i left after realizing that i was paying a lot of good money for my instructor to tell me how to talk to cops, not fight. Same with history lessons, save that for a different classroom. Sure your instructor is great, sounds like youre getting ripped off
What was the place called where you learned ?
So these guys are so full of shit that they stray so far out of their lanes that they are giving legal advice!? Best way to deal with the aftermath is to get the hell out of there before the cops get there.
Boxing also teaches to get run-work, rope-work etc. for conditioning and IRL sparring. Also if you’re in a self-defense scenario you don’t want to be rolling around on the floor exposed to attacks by his buddies. I think the “self defense scenario” they’re thinking of is like being in UFC or something.
I’d say boxing is A- tier or higher. Punch hard, incapacitate your opponent and flee.
In my Gracie Jiu-jitsu gym, we basically do BJJ with ground and pound and strikes from standing and how to deal with them while grappling.
@Oodles of Noodles
Yeah because its stupid to go to the ground most of the time
@Oodles of Noodles giving your leg to a dude with full guard can also mean u get tripped
@Oodles of Noodles Nonsense.
There are a good amount of videos of that not happening at all
Most of what I remember in Tae Kwon Do, it was 95% conditioning. Practice was run laps, 2 basic kicks, 3 basic hand strikes, run laps, cardio + footwork practice, run laps, pushups+situps+more bodyweight, sprints, practice taking body shots, run laps, and stretching. Then run more laps. It didn't teach me to win a real fight, but I sure as hell could run without gassing out and throw a decent punch. Good starting point for learning a practical fighting style.
The lowest risk of getting injured in a fight is to not be in a fight. Running with decent stamina to avoid the fight should be the primary defence, and for some reason people always drop it....
Definitely a good starting point. We didn’t spar much when I was in it, almost 5 years. I transitioned into Tang Soo Do alternating BBJ biweekly. We spar. I’ve seen how TKD has definitely helped in a lot of ways. As you stated. I knew I needed to have some pressure testing so a change was good. I’m better at my kicks and definitely more limber than most student in class.
the footwork is legit, and if taught correctly you will learn to kick correctly. but you will NOT learn to defend yourself. I did TKD, worked at a school... but on its own TKD is useless
WTF tae kwon do right? Try ITF
TKD is one of the most beautiful martial arts. Unfortunately though... hands and fists are almost always faster than knees and legs! You never get to kick artfully with a running start in real life situation. And y'all know dat!
Some of the best things you can learn for self-defense are 1.how to see the attack coming 2. How to run 3.How to take a hit if the first two don't happen. My karate instructor taught us early on that things don't always go to plan. He taught me how to break a choke, and then he choked me, and I broke it, and he came back and choked me again and again and again until I got the message that the techniques he was teaching us would not always work in every situation.
My dad liked to choke me too Homer was a good guy though
Fantastic video guys. I found so interesting, thanks.
Experience and confidence are possible the two of the most useful things in self defense, especially in surprise situations. When your brain and body doesn't hesitate because you have been in similar situations hundreds of times before, it can make a big difference.
The only self defense situations I have ever been in were ended in seconds with me pinning the guy to the ground. Most of the time, they didn't even struggle that much after getting taken down. They appeared to just be shocked that the altercation ended that quickly.
To be fair though, these guys were unarmed and were of questionable intelligence and sobriety, but the point is that the immediate and violent response of someone with extensive sparing experience can make a bigger difference than the type of martial art trained.
I was at best a mediocre high school wrestler, but when things start to happen my body and mind didn't hesitate and that lack of hesitation can make a big difference in an encounter.
It can also get you in trouble too. I once accidently threw a guy in a basketball game.
Absolutely. Been trained BJJ for over 20yrs and I’ve been able to de escalate some crazy situations
Would have loved to hear Mike's opinion on Sambo.
Me too.
I agree, in the Sambo system. There's the regular Sambo and combat Sambo which is like MMA.
Same....was gonna ask that, too
You, was also thinking about combat sambo
I dont know about Mike but i do muay thai and my opinion is sambo and sanda both work very well but i dont know if its different enoph from kickboxing or mma to fall into a different section.
Been training in Taekwondo for a little while now. My instructor always made sure that no kicks to the legs or punches to the face (unless you're a red belt up) were allowed during sparring because if something goes wrong, you're out for a long time. However, feel free to hit hard if you can take the hard hits anywhere else. He also teaches you how to take out knees gouge eyes, takedowns, etc in real fights. I hate seeing the 'tag sparring' be the face of Taekwondo
Yeah tag TKD is the ‘sport’ not the martial art
I got DQ'd a long time ago in a TKD tournament for opening a cut on another guy's face when he was coming in. It was supposed to be light point-sparring (as opposed to the one with the armor and gear on), and this was only a little bit after the WTF / ITF split. On the one hand it was a good result because I didn't pull it sufficiently, but on the other hand, he was advancing and it was a counter to that.
Anyway, it seems like every TKD instructor will have other things to teach besides "sport" TKD - the worthwhile ones, anyway. Even the TKD I had, which wasn't too bad, considering, didn't deal with takedowns and close-range attacks. We did ridge hand, chop, spear hand, as well as punching, but the focus was on kicks (it was TKD, after all). I'll bet most of the low attacks you had were things like the twisting kick or the back kick or low side kick. We used to practice a while measuring distance to the bag and going some of that stuff to gain distance. Good counters for high attacks can be low attacks and vice versa. Especially now, you can seemingly advance to black belt and further with just forms and breaking techniques. Now, those things aren't nothing, and nearly every TKD program will spar as well, but the focus doesn't seem to be on practicality anymore.
A lot of the "self-defense" taught at a lot of schools is just a move without a whole lot of realism to put that move in context of when you need it, so I'm not convinced of the legitimacy even if the move itself is legit.
I don't know what the face of TKD is these days, just that if you say you used to do TKD the next question generally is "what else did you study". I find it a little ironic because I still remember asking the guy next to me IN TKD class who was an Aikido black belt why he was doing TKD (I was in my 20's at the time). TKD nowadays isn't quite to the level of Aikido now; more slightly behind sport fencing I think. Cool tricks, great game, will keep you in pretty good shape, can be made useful for real-world applications if you know a whole bunch of other stuff too...but on its own pretty limited.
same here, exactly same here
They did mention in the video that Karate (full contact and with skill) can be very good for self defense. And ITF TKD stems from Karate as well, so would you say that it's pretty useful if trained with sparring and less limited ideologies?
@@digitalcamaro9708 main problem with any tkd is it mainly relies on legs for fight which is not the best
My son started off studying jiu-jitsu, but moved over to the judo classes and loves them. He has a t-shirt that says something like,
"Judo takes them down, Jiu-jitsu keeps them there."
Wanted to do judo first, but judo class only had 1 day for an adult while bjj had 3 days a week for an adult so i picked bjj.
I'd agree if judo ppl focused more on leg takedowns and bjj more on pinning.
I started Kyokushin at 13. Muay Thai at 16, competed for years, trained at competition level till my mid 40's. Started BJJ at 48 (am now a Blue Belt), Judo a year later (Brown Belt now). Striking is still my first go-to, but I would say Judo is the best art for SD, and I wish I had started it when I was a kid. Judo has the best takedowns for SD, it has chokes, holds, breaks, and it had Olympic level conditioning. The only people that are a problem for a good Judoka are wrestlers, but the same is true in reverse. And since we're discussing SD and not interdiscipline competition, I vote Judo. ;)
So to be clear, you like judo better for SD than BJJ?
I practiced judo as a kid and am looking for a martial art to get back into for SD, but also fun and fitness…
@@The_Scouts_Code Yes, I would prefer Judo, providing (but that's always true I guess) you practice it for competition (no matter the level) or you do proper randori.
Every BJJ school I've trained at does proper sparring, and this is why BJJ is always 'real' whereas a lot of other MA schools don't spar. I've seen recreational Judo classes where there was no real sparring, and the results speak for themselves. Not good. But why I prefer Judo is that it starts - and usually ends - standing up. The moment you lay a hand on someone, or someone lays it on you, you have the edge, because that is where Judo starts.
But it has to be practiced under pressure, with resistance. Sparring, randori, in other words.
@@The_Scouts_Code I'm going to say Judo as well. I've done Judo, BJJ, boxing and Muay-Tai, although boxing only for a year, and I have found that my Judo training has been the most useful for SD. I've been in three situations where I can surly say that it helped me but not necessarily in the way most people think. Adding to what Mike was saying in the video the break-falling part and balance you gain from Judo is probably what will be most useful for everyday life and I don't even know how many times it has helped me avoid injuries which is why I recommend it over some of the striking sports/arts since they don't teach that element.
Whoa, you started Judo at 49? Isn't Judo pretty though on the body, especially if you're over 40? Ive heard people choose BJJ over Judo because Judo led to more injuries. Much respect to you, sir, for starting new martial arts at a later age.
@@lordtains It helps that I never stopped being an athlete. I had my last competitive Muay Thai fight at 46. Learning to breakfall was not easy but it was certainly doable. But thank you for the compliment.
As for injuries, it's certainly true that Judo has more of those than does BJJ, but I never competed in Judo, and sparring recreationally is less demanding. I do compete in BJJ at a very local level and I've never been injured. I'll be 60 at the end of this year and doing fine. ;)
Thank you for showing us an entertaining & informative discussion. Karate for self-defense, after 4 years of weekly training: 1) lots of physical exercise, drills & sparring, so we were fit & happy 2) we were conditioned to NEVER hurt each other by striking vital areas when sparring -so we’d have to ignore our own conditioning in a self-defense encounter 3) we sometimes practiced but never conditioned how to fall, grapple, take down, avoid takedowns 4) we never were conditioned how to deal with weapons, other than to run away 5) almost every other dojo I switched to had the same issues, so I’d rank Karate as a “D” for self defense
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@thedarkking32 Problem is in 1 vs 3 street fight basically every MA is useless. To win in 1 vs 3 you either must be EXTODINARY good to deliver a 3 knockout one after another or your oponents must be in bad (for fight) condition. In usuall 1 vs 3 street fight you will be FORCED to fight all 3 at same time with very good chance to get hit from back. And this is situation where your opponents dont have things like broken bottle.
@@thedarkking32 you can use tae kwo do for multiple opponets much better
I did some Jiu-Jitsu when I was a teenager. I was never very serious about it, used it once in self defence against a not very determined attacker, and I think learning how to fall is the best thing I got out of it. I was also an inline skater, half pipe included, and knowing how to break falls saved me so many times. Even today, I can still easily break falls and not hurt myself. That is hugely underrated. Other than that JJ was most useful against my girlfriends - I'm a strong guy, and they always wanted to playwrestle to see if they can somehow best me. JJ was great in very gently putting an end to that when they didn't want to stop.
I boxed for 8 years, starting at 19 and ending at 27; light heavy. Three carded fights, 2 wins 1 loss (I only competed in the last year). I also coached it for 6 years. With the history out of the way, whenever I had someone new coming into the gym asking to learn boxing as a form of self-defense I usually told them it's not the best choice of a martial art for that. I explained that this is a sport, it has rules and those rules will be DRILLED into you and your mindset. We break on a clinch, we don't kick, we need SPACE (that one is important), etc.
Space is probably one of the most important trained aspect in a street fight for a boxer. We train (and get use to) fighting in a set ring-space, we also fight 1v1, what happens when it's not 1v1? What happens when there is not enough space (packed bar, tight alleyway, etc.)? We don't train you for that. I agree with the list, especially regarding wrestling. Being able to fight in a tight space with your opponent starting pretty much right on top of you, smothering you, I would expect to be a prime aspect of effective self-defense. Wrestling seems a perfect fit for that.
Just my 20 cents.
I would think one of the important things of fighting in crowded space is a control of what is behind your back. Or you will get your head smashed by the bottle. Wrestling does not seem to help here with the focus on one opponent.
I like this type of mindset, I used to think negatively of boxing as inferior to real martial arts because it's just a sport as what was said in Baki, but after reading your comment, Boxing being a sport, It conceptually makes it more appealing to me now that it's not some real martial arts suitable for every combat situation
I have taken Judo, Taekwondo, Wrestling, Muay-Thai and a little bit of BJJ.
Unfortunately I've been in alot of bar fights and this describes what has happened to me on many occasions.
1. Punches, kicks, shoves get thrown (first 10 seconds)
2. Clinch (next 5 seconds)
3. O Goshi or Uki Goshi happens quickly, they land HARD and I get side control. (fight usually is about to be over at this point because people around now intervene by pulling you off or attempt to kick you in the face etc)
Judo - O Goshi or Uki Goshi variation is the most natural, easiest and effective technique in a street fight once you clinch.
Judo has been the most helpful martial art for me in real life situations.
Gold comment
Ogoshi is very easy and natural and instinctive. You can always just do it without thinking and it is very effective.
Looking at the data, most street fights end within the first 10 seconds because people lack basic boxing skills. To defend against punches and to throw them properly is probably your best initial skillset to know. Therefore BOXING is S tier in my opinion, and as you say, some basic clinching skill and judo is next.
Boxing also comes with a reduced fear of face-punches, which is very useful
Yeah I say all you need is boxing/judo or wrestling
I took judo as a kid, 10, but only took it for a year. However, it had taught me a lot in that year, simple throws, choke holds and how to fall safely. The falling safely has saved me more times than not. Also most fights end on the ground and that is were Judo has helped me.
Out of all the noise i just watched, you sir spoke not base on hearsay or anything else but real life experience. Judo should be top tier ( if i had to go back in time it'll be the first i'd take) along with Muay Thai being street fight is a different ball game and very rarely a one on one were rules are thrown out because its never a defense but a survival.
I think you brought up the greatest thing martial arts can teach you. Rolls and falls. I guarantee at some point everyone will need and use those. Great point.
Ah, yes. I see that you know your judo well.
Defiantly. I've taken a few falls, tripping for example, and I just rolled with it instead of breaking my pelvis@@antondrachuk6552
Most fights don't actually end on the ground. This is a mith coming from a statistic of encounters with police officers.
Martial arts isn't about self-defense, it's about finding the perfect gi to accentuate your beer gut.
Facts
I know beer gut bouncers who could put you away in seconds.
then bjj would be s tier for that
Are you saying they found the perfect gi? @@stalker7892
Why anyone goes anywhere that a bouncer is needed is beyond me.
From my experience, getting on the ground in general was never a good idea for self defense situations. Mostly because every instance of a street fight I've seen or briefly been involved with was heavily centered on groups of people targeting smaller groups or even an individual person. I've seen guys get on the ground to do a choke or attempt an armbar only to be descended on and mobbed.
It's why I'd suggest Judo instead of BJJ or Wrestling, personally.
Judo though promotes a lot of bad habits in terms hip throws. Turning you back especially if you don’t have as many points of contact (no gi) is bad. Most foot sweeps maybe besides O Soto or Ouchi require the opponent to be operating under Judo rules (and a fancy de ashi to strike is not going to help you if you can’t throw a cross). Even if you get thrown it’s worse on concrete but not fight ending necessarily. If your opponent has any natural wrestling inclination, you don’t train sprawls and in fact are probably standing too straight.
@@gudea5207 It does train bad habits, there's no arguing that. I can only recommend Judo more than I can BJJ due to what I've personally seen. Which is Judo being used to end fights by sending a guy head first onto concrete compared to the one or two times I've seen someone bring a fight to the ground, only to get mobbed on.
I also say this, being someone who practices BJJ (no Gi). I think Judo is just better for that situation due to my experience.
Prevent getting to the ground anyways. Others can kick you in the head.
@@chowmonkey2002 It's just not a good idea in general.
whether is a good idea or not, 90% of all fights end up in a clinch of some sort and eventually can and do fall to the ground. Being able to defend yourself on the ground is extremely important. If you are skilled you WILL get that armbar or choke someone out.
Totally agree on the break fall training. Trained in judo when younger, and Kyokushin now in my 50’s, but the skill that has saved me from serious injury ‘in the streets’ is break falling. Watching an untrained, older person take a tumble is kind of a train wreck.
Yep. Every judo dojo has at least one person who has been saved from death or serious injury thanks to instinctually being able to get thrown to the ground and get back up again. In terms of "self-defense" it's hard to find other techniques that will allow you to walk away from a fight with an SUV.
I did judo from my 3 to 12 years (of age) and during my teenage years, I lost count how many times knowing judo helped me break falls and avoid injuries, specially when skating and BMXing.
Honestly aside from weapons, some of the worst damage people are going to end up taking in real fights are from bad falls/takedowns onto hard ground. Training in a discipline that not only teaches you how to take a fall but trains you how and gives you tons of practice preventing them is huge. I think Judo was rated fairly in this, and I was glad that mentioned those aspects as important factors in its favor.
This thread makes me wanna do judo
As a Judo practitioner myself and ex Police, Mike is on the money with Judo. For self-defence situations, the quick grabs and instinctive movements (escapes, trips, off-balancing and of course throwing) developed when practicing judo over time will provide a big advantage in self-defence situations (when stood up). Ground work is frequently practiced so agree not better than BJJ but better than the average punter. All subject to individual physical/psychological limitations. Good to hear Mike keeping Rokas on track with that.
True, but I've overpowered a lot of bigger guys, then me because of judo.
In judo, if you're talking self-defense.. you're likely slamming a dude on the concrete. I'd argue a non-tweaker isn't likely to get up.
Police in Japan have to train in Judo... it's a prerequisite here. They know it's useful.
@@hugoramallo1980There's a lot of value in BJJ ground work. It has a lot more variety of holds (kneeholds, etc.) than judo and less limitations (for example I can choke with the legs even if I don't have one of your arms).
But you're also right BJJ guys just sit there waiting for you to attack them in a BJJ manner.
Judo's ground work is limited, but I think it's stood up part is way more useful and the ground part is more than enough to subdue any untrained attacker.
BJJ is very effective of 1-on-1 combat. It is bad for multiple attackers. The biggest issue is the willingness to go to the ground. You better know that person doesn’t have friends next to you that are going to soccer kick you in your head.
Honestly my fav content. A tier list, been wanting one of these from the big channels for a while
Glad to hear it! I was very excited to make this list together with Icy Mike
@@MartialArtsJourney Def gonna be real with mike there
@@MartialArtsJourney I've mentioned it before but here it is again... I would REALLY like you to look at TRIATHLON style SHIDOKAN KARATE. I'm curious of your opinion. It is a Kyokushin offshoot that DOES have face punching, Judo, Ne-waza, Kickboxing and more... It is almost like Japanese MMA in a sense. Triathlon style rules is 1st round Bare knuckles Kyokushin Rules + Judo with 30 seconds of ground work before standing up. 2nd round is Muay Thai/Kickboxing. 3rd Round is No Gi MMA.
Great list for sure, great detail!
You forgot Gun-Fu however...
BJJ, Muay Thai and Judo is the ultimate combo
Muay Thai, MMA and Sambo are too.
Hapkido >>>
@@caiodosanjos157 Muay Thai better
Kyokushinkai is more badass than muay thai, punches to the face were removed because it was too deadly !
judo is basically bjj so no
I practised Vovinam for 10 years since the age of 7. My master always taught 2 ways for every technique. One way that looks nice for performances and one way for use on the streets. Since I turned 18 I had to use those street techniques a few times and it got me out of some really tough situations. What the guys said in the video was right though, there's a difference between learning martial arts and learning self-defense because out on the street you usually don't know you're in a fight until you've already got hit.
I do not agree with that. If you have a good teacher, the first thing you should have learned is awareness. Awareness of yourself, your environment and others in your environment, as well as the energy in your environment. You should be able to spot trouble way before it happens in most instances.
Fighting your way out of a gang attack is the best policy
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@sifu8056 I know this is an old comment but no one can be 100% aware all the time and if they are that could be a sign of PTSD. We all have blind spots, and to add to what the OP said, the dangerous situation is seldom the one you are aware of, its when you are blindsided, so situational awareness is important, but assuming that you should always be able to spot trouble before it happens is naive.
@@thedarkking32 muay thai would be alot more effective imo
I love these comparison videos and I think this is maybe the best one I have watched, for a few reasons: 1) is the conversational aspect of it. But 2) is those last few minutes, which really lays out the truth. But the entire thing was helpful and interesting.
Thank you for this presentation, I found it to be educational, and I agree that self defense is a lot more than just studying martial arts or an array of them. As someone who has studied boxing, kenpo, FMA and back alley Elizabethan fighting. You've helped me realize that I should up my ground game and work on breakfalls and my grappling. Keep up the good work.
I see boxing as the best martial art, because boxing is more effective than wrestling and bjj, is true that boxing doesn't teach you what to do if you're on the ground but it's the best way to finish a fight, for example if you're fighting in a street fight against three opponents, how are you going to end the fight with them with wrestling or bjj ??? You can't even subdue one opponent because the others will destroy you, but boxing on the other hand is the best martial art to teach you how to punch harder and deliver a knockout that will finish the fight
@@thedarkking32 But if you get taken down which most fights end on the ground. You would be helpless. Thats why Knowing Bjj also would give you the best chance. You dont always have to end a fight with bjj knowing positioning is all you would need if someone blindsides you taking you down and be able to get back up and run or get out the situation. If not once someone mounts you no matter how good the boxing its over.
@@mlad5274 agree
Good luck with that
Boxing has helped me with 90% of the confrontations I have been in. Easy to use subconsciously when the adrenaline is high. About a year of training and you are already in better shape physically and mentally. Sparring keeps your fight or flight from clouding your mind.
And learn a bit of BJJ or Wrestling and you have the whole kit.
I have to agree with this. The combination of physical fitness plus full contact sparing is excellent for self defense.
Yeah I laughed and knew he would pit boxing on low. Boxing is a fat S tier, they did it dirty. Nobody will do fancy jump kicks or grapples while fighting on concrete.
It’s also practiced at full speed and power other then kickboxing/ Mui Thai…. The others are not
@@midnightvibes5485 yeah definitely training 1 or 2 nights a week in a hour long sanitised class isn't enough to build up the strength, stamina or reaction control that can help you deal with a real world confrontation. Most boxing gyms will have several different classes focused on different aspects like fitness, techniques or sparring and coaches who have actually had a fight or two in their adult lives
Boxing is mainly useful against your average/untrained person,a boxer would lose to someone that knows wrestling, mma or kickboxing on the street
I did Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. As part of our training we studied elements of aikido, shotokan karate and judo. We sparred all the time and did groundwork every session. We also learnt attacks and defence with traditional and modern weapons including multiple attacks. I know which techniques work for me and have had to use them very rarely but still visualise what could happen and what I could do when a situation begins to arise and I can’t get away from it safely. Being always aware of what is going on around you and getting away from danger is usually the first thought.
have you ever had an actual person (not a sparring partner) charging at you to literally beat you to death, or to cut your head off with a knife? like tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. training is nice, you get some exercise and all that, but you cannot know how you'll react in an actual fight. what would likely happen is you'd forget everything you've learned about martial arts and go into survival mode.
@@IRGhost0 I worked as a prison officer for 27 years and did have to use my skills although rarely. I have been attacked with table legs and homemade knives and was always in a position to defend myself. The only time I got seriously injured was when I was completely surprised by an inmate who I had been helping all day long who unknown to me had gone completely loopy and hit me in the face whilst he had a plaster cast on his arm whilst I was opening his door. I was knocked unconscious and had a bloody nose and mouth. He ended up being sectioned.
I have also been attacked by a couple of drunks many years ago (not at the same time) I used very simple takedowns and restraint techniques on both. Then let them go when they appeared to calm down.
The sparring and full-contact contests is something I remember vividly from my Ju-jutsu? Ji-jitsu? Ju-jitsu? Jiu-jitsu? days. Gloves, headgear and body armor for sparring, and the instructors occasionally went to tournaments and came back with giant bruises and/or casts. Since I'm a wuss, that's what made me drop out - I tapped the moment my opponent was approaching a lock, I didn't fight until the pain made me yield, and I did not absorb impacts but went down when the opponent got in a good strike.
@@c99kfm Just call it Jujutsu for clearer understanding.
@@IRGhost0 I've survived and defended over multiple knife attacks and protected myself and my friends from other people.
My Japanese jiujitsu dojo does train live. It’s *mostly* through light randori at the end of class where we are encouraged to implement the day’s topic. There are other live fighting exercises that are super helpful.
I have used Japanese jiujitsu in real world situations and it has been effective 100% of the time (for me anyway, and thanks to randori and other live exercises). Finger locks, grip escapes, chokes, etc. executed at the start of potential conflicts has always ended a fight before it grew beyond a simmer. As a woman, Japanese jiujitsu has kept me safe from late night drunk attackers, inappropriately handsy guys at bars, and all out brawls in the middle of the street. I’ve studied BJJ (Gracie University) briefly and it is totally impractical for real life protection. It all starts on the ground, which is where you lose the upper hand. Japanese jiujitsu ends the fight before anybody is dragged to the floor and creates enough space for the victim to run away and escape (which is always the safest plan). BJJ is great for competition; Japanese jiujitsu is great for real world scenarios
I spent 14 years between Judo and TKD. Both being taught by the same guy and that was an absolute blessing because at a certain point he began to teach how to use those two together. The TKD he taught was very geared towards real world application. We actually had problems with going to tournaments because of that.
same, it was always strange hearing people talk poorly of taekwondo and kung fu bc i was taught how to use the two together by our grandmaster
Same i accidentally punched my opponent in the face
It was a taekwondo
@@benedictbernal6736 so did I in a tkd tournament last year, and got points taken would have gotten first place if not for that . That's so real. Keep going on your journey.💪🥊
almost same w me
its a shame tkd gets a bad reputation based only on WTF (world taekwondo federation)
when you have ITF wich is way more usable at self defense and paired with something like judo its a goated style
but i still think its not the best and it has its flaws
most schools teach a certain way and are not open minded
Lethwei definitely is crazy. The judges don't even score the rounds, it's either KO, TKO or a draw lol
No judges or rounds, this is self defence not sport.
Lethwai has brutal rules but the level of competition not good, their best fighters are not great.
@@johnkennedy7368 Lethwei is probably fit for a street fight as a headbutt can be applied against your opponent. It's hard to become a real sport.
@@weekdaycycling You don't have to be a Lethwai fighter to headbutt, I trained in Boxing and Muay thai for 43 years, I headbutted guys in clubs but hey what do I know im just a noob.
@@johnkennedy7368 lethwei is a martial art used to beat up siam (Thailand) in war history the fact it a sport is crazy definitely a good self defense
@@Saaannn22 I never said it isn't a good form of self defence, it disgusts me when people twist my words.
I said they havnt produced many good fighters.
The best ones to learn is BJJ, Muay Thai, and Wrestling. A good amount of skill in each of them will help you in self defence in most situations (unarmed ofc).
The thing is most of each one will be a waste of time still. Imo this is the where MMA comes in. It takes the best from each martial art that works best in a real (or close to real) situation. They should do another vid on what they would specifically take from BJJ, wresting, boxing etc
@@TheOlzee one thing though ofc always run if someone brings a knife. The mma stance is counterproduktive against a knife, and gets you killed hence learn some krav maga fma for Those situations aswel
a good boxer can eliminate two or three opponents fairly quickly. Honestly, who would have liked to have a street fight with Prime Mike Tyson? No man in the world!!
@@kalterkakaozumfruhstuck1515 a trained individual can take down multiple untrained individuals relatively easy, Mike Tyson can probably take down dozen of people if they don't jump at him at once in no weapon situation. The physical capability is very bizarre, an Asian man can deliver a punch only around 1/9 of his punch, you only need twice the normal man amount to knock a person out or stun them, I once stun a guy for hours, he was knocked down for minutes. In self defence situation, your mentality, quick wit, being able to use brain in combat along with physical ability and understanding how your opponents will move really help, also ferocity, a lot of people get scared so easily which hinders their ability to defense themselves.
No point in learning BJJ if you're learning wrestling. The wrestler outmatches the BJJ practitioner in all things groundwork. Muy Tai or boxing covers the striking shortfalls. BJJ came on the scene when no one knew any groundwork. It lost its dominance once people learned Greco-Roman and how to defend against takedown attempts.
I actually saw the entire video with great interest, thank you. I have an 8 yrs old and currently just focusing on calisthenics and aerobic development, making it all fun to build confidence through praise and genuine encouragement without an immediate agenda...
However, he is not interested in wrestling or boxing, and I do not want to make a mistake pushing him or getting him complexed about his abilities or he should get ready for. He loves exercising and the pull up bar is his friend My background is somhow limited; I started with Shotokan and Kata which was fun for a while and left the sport for practical highs (acrobatic skydiving and resistance training as in maratons later). Life took me to Gracie JJ due to army training and expected responsibilities (I will stop here about that) and later turned towards coaching shooting folk and practicing Tai Chi in private after I honorably discharged from doesn't matter the service. Anyway, I want him to get the confidence I developed without a plan, by planning for him, or at least facilitating it. What is your take on development programs for self defense, what should I focus on for my son? My daughter is in team handball (for fun, for now) and running, so it is just me influencing him. We currently live in Germany where I retired and decided to stay for school reasons and access to wrestling schools are very limited in the area we are. My return to US later, meanwhile I am not sure what my plan should look to develop them. Thoughts? Thanks
My Korean father-in-law fought in Vietnam and taught Taekwondo in the Korean army. He was also a radio operator for a couple years and survived. Dude's in his 70's and I still wouldn't want to test him. Also, the nicest guy I know.
You don't test men like that ,they already passed
@mrorange3490 I agree that competative taekwondo is a joke for self defense but it's always a different story for someone who has used a martial art in actual combat. A martial art is far more effective when you don't have to follow rules.
Military Taekwondo is in another stratosphere.
@mrorange3490 I did taekwondo for 6 years and it really is a joke compared to other fighting sports, really like foot tag. But any sports that makes you fit, teaches you footwork, instinctual reactions and how to kick someone in the head, you will easily destroy anyone who doesnt do a fighting sport, even if youre in your 70s and have kept practising it on occasion
@mrorange3490ehhhh. It’s like the say in the video, the way you train is everything. In general, I could not agree more before the emphasis for competitive taekwondo translates very poorly to self defense. TKD was my first intro to martial arts at like age 6 and we were doing full contact sparring. It taught me how to punch and kick with real pressure testing and more importantly taught me how to GET punched and kicked. I’ve since gone on to do everything from wrestling to bjj to judo to boxing, so I have a decent spread to compare it to. And I know this isn’t the standard TKD experience but also like they say in the video, pressure testing is key. I’d be willing to bet a military vet, especially from that region in that time period, was not learning TKD to win competitions, and it leaned a lot more heavily into the combat effectiveness aspect.
I took a basic Karate at an after-school class, and I think the most effective parts of it were the blocking. I have used the blocking before when somebody came at me, and just started going at me with their fists, but they missed every single punch because I easily blocked them all. I could have gone in with some kicks to knock them on their but if I wanted to, but we were kids, and their parent was nearby, and so was mine, so I just blocked over, and over until they got involved. Karate is a great self defense martial art for blocking, and defense. We were taught in karate that when you get punched in the face, you take a step back, and you lift your forearm to block the punch, and to block a chest punch you moved your forearm to the side to block the chest punch, and your stance is good for leg kicks. Same for your chest kicks, or head kicks. However, I have no idea how to fight on the ground if I was knocked over.
As a karate black belt I fully understand you. Karate is really good for defense and offense in a medium/long distance fight, even against more than one opponent. However, the short distance (despite kyokushin) and, especially the ground work is weak, although u can pretty much handle yourself against an untrained fighter.
I was lucky to find a dojo that has a little ground work and short distance. Unfortunately a lot of dojos don't have that and, even worse, a lot focus on kata (which is USELESS in a fight, despite what they make you think with the bunkai bs).
So, basically, if a karateca was to face a BJJ fighter, if the distance was kept, the karateca would easily win. But if they fall to the ground, may God help that karateca.
@@KingWilliam.99 very well said.
There is a window of opportunity to get up again in a scramble. I've seen it in Gracie tapes. But yeah, once he's stuck there.. Game over.
plus you it enables you for hikite which can be useful in my experience (yes imo some parts of katas can work)
Hilarious 😂
I still remember being shown by a friend when I was a kid how aikido had taught her techniques that would allow her to break an arm in 7 places. She demonstrated how it would work by using my wrist to lock my arm and then tapping my arm in the places where it would supposedly break. Being 12 years old (and at a time before MMA was broadly known), I took her at her word that this technique would actually work. I learned similar techniques in Kuk Sool Wan in middle school and high school (i.e. perform this wrist lock and then strike here to "break the elbow"). Today, I am immensely disappointed in these traditions. The saddest thing is, I don't think that my instructor (and likely hers) truly knew they were selling lies. They were simply repeating what they had been told, and because the martial arts lack any realistic mechanism to test their techniques, instructors and students are able to lean in to their confirmation bias and believe they're learning something that will radically alter their ability to win a fight, even with someone immensely larger and stronger than they are.
Time has taught me what my fundamental human instincts always knew, size and strength actually matter, a 100 pound 12 year old can't manipulate a full grown man into a wrist lock and break their arm with a strike. I think mixed martials arts are slowly making that more clear to the world, and hopefully people are becoming less vulnerable to charlatan claims aimed at selling people the idea that they can overcome larger, stronger opponents with unarmed techniques they learn over a weekend self-defense course. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I thought this was blatantly obvious from the age of like 7
Grappling is almost all about muscle and body mass. Not the same goes against striking. If you ever get kicked in the shins or ribs from a 50kg trained fighter it will quickly dispel that lack of belief you have. Don't believe me? Picture fighting a short, 50kg muay thai fighter. He doesn't have to manipulate your limbs to inflict harm.
I took a TKD course circa 14 years ago. A sesson was split in 3 parts. Warm up/cardio, body weight excercise; hitting bags (the kinds worn on your arms like shields; technique and sparring (where you'd don on helmets vests & gloves). Beginners weren't allowed to spar. For a long time I'd still remember the tremendous weight transfer behind the kicks (we were instructed to kick "through" the target, as if he'd be like ~50 almost 2 spread out palms beyond where he stood). And the sensation to always be aware of your distance & head lest a right hand slips through. In boxing, only one out of several punches in a combo approaches the energy and sheer heft of an average kick. So, nope, some martial arts are practiced by tens and hundred millions of people. It's incorrect to lump them and mcDojos in one group.
Funny, I've heard the exact same Aikido legend of breaking arms in seven places from a friend (despite living in a totally different country than you or where Aikido has a bigger coverage in the martial arts scene). He did get in a fight once with someone with no martial arts background, and got beat up pretty bad. Thankfully no long-term injuries or anything.
Bullshido like that is legitimately dangerous.
Steven segal just killed u
Aikido is for looking perfection. I practice Aikido many years and is very effective because teaching my avoid confrontation. Mentality is different than in the others martial arts. Contrary to appearances Aikido is similary to Krav Maga and do not strives to open conflict, but if is impossible to avoid it, you must react through surprise. In my life I got only one situation, when 3 persons tryed rob me. And I won this fight wihout fight. My calm and avoiding first atak my calmness and dodging the first attack was enough for the attacker to freeze and take away the willingness of the others to fight.
When we were providing security for a rock concert, I had a similar situation when a guy a head taller and probably weighing twice as much as me wanted to get into the concert without a ticket. The security let him in, and I saw that when he entered, others would also enter. I stood in his way and calmly told him that he couldn't go to the concert. At first he threatened, then he backed out.
I didn't have such situations again, because the first rule of Aikido is to avoid them. I know that my friends who practice other martial arts and with whom I sometimes train boxing have many more of these situations.
Aikido can be trained in many ways. Many teachers treat Aikido as a form of relaxing movement, without observing the rules of distance and timing, thinking that someone will fall over if they breathe on them. There are also those, especially those who trained other martial arts, who do not treat Aikido like TaiChi. No martial art will give you 100% safety if you keep looking for opportunities to test yourself on the street. There is a knife and a gun in the street.
I train for speed, calm, timing and for better well-being. Winning and effectiveness are, above all, a cool head and have many different faces. There are so many different forms of self-defense that everyone can adjust something to their expectations. I chose Aikido, although I sometimes also practice kicking and boxing, which I haven't had to use on the street yet
My son did TKD for 2 years. I don't think he ever understood that it was a contact game. He was rehearsing dance moves.
I don't understand why taekwondo is considered a sport or ineffective here. What I'm learning primarily at taekwondo is how to punch and kick people really hard with a little bit of learning which bodyparts can take an opponent's hit the best. I'm guessing it must be the difference between the different federation's styles? I've never really looked into taekwondo outside of my own school.
@@MrDagren I think in most cases, your average YKD student is 8 years old and belt progression is fast so it seems kind of like you're being sold something outside of actual combat skills. I think they all have something to offer but in my son's class, it was a lot of memorizing moves done in a solo performance.
@Jesus is God What is it like for you?
I only remind you, one thing is taekwondo and another thing is how they teach it, especially here in the West, real taekwondo, as it was devised, is a very complete martial art, I recommend you look for videos of how the Korean military trains
@@MrDagren The issue is that there's 3 major organizations of Taekwondo (ITF, ATA, WT) where all three are massively different so it's a real hit or miss. Traditional ITF taekwondo has a lot more focus on self defence, punches, throws, and escapes from locks. Still not anywhere near what you'd have in e.g muay thai, but the comparison of ITF Taekwondo to e.g Shotokan Karate is close to 1:1 since that's what it was derived from. If you're doing ATA or WT Taekwondo you're looking for a "fun sport", nothing more serious.
I grew up in a rough neighbourhood where fights happened all the time, not the least of which were the bloody encounters with my own brother. It really toughened me up to take a pounding. When I finally started training in my late teens I realized that I had been really lucky over the years and that learning multiple techniques was amazing. Then, when we would have someone new join the club, I realized that refined training often doesn't help as well as random actual combat with someone not trained. The reason being is you were taught how to throw and block punches and moves that, if your opponent didn't have the same training, were almost useless. I had been training a few years and a new guy coming up who was great on the heavy bag, was a bigger guy, didn't stick to his teachings when sparring. He would swing wild wide haymakers. I remember the second time we sparred and he kept surprising me, swinging wide, and I thought to myself "Ok, absorb a couple of these, you can take it, then when he resets or gets gassed, then it's your turn." Problem is, he didn't stop.
"Problem is, he didn't stop."
Right -- It's definitely a mindset adjustment when you realize that Joe Schmo Attacker on the street, whatever reason he has for attacking you, isn't trying to save anything back for multiple rounds or even the walk home. He's angry and tunnel-visioned and will dump his adrenaline reserves immediately into whatever he's got. And adrenaline lasts a lot longer than a defender would expect, especially since missing your haymaker just makes you madder and grants more adrenaline as feedback.
Even a trained boxer aiming a "gimme" knockout blow at a wide-open opponent won't spend as much net force into that punch as a mouth-foaming angry man will dump into his wild haymakers. There's zero sense of self-preservation because the best defense for a man in a rage is a good offense. Dodging said offense is easier, but absorbing it is not wise.
Im trying to get the story and your insights but it's quite confusing, could you be more clear in what you're trying to say?
@@29DarkBoy exactly it sounds like he's
"yapping"
I encountered the same problem when play-wrestling/sparring with friends from other gyms. These guys would toss out techniques that either did not exist or I had not trained from my martial art and catch me off-guard. I only won a quarter of the time.
Actual combat can teach you a lot of shit and I do agree. At the end of the day though, I'll give kudos to you. Being in so many fights and actually learning them, I look up to ya. I could take a pounding and KO three times a day and still not learn shit from it, lol.
@@skullhead8617 thanks. It was a weekly occurrence for quite a period of my youth and even into my twenties, unfortunately. I carry quite a few scars from those days. It helped but also hurt that I was a scrawny kid that got big once puberty hit. It was often just a challenge navigating the people that wanted to pick a fight because you were the big 240lb fifteen year old with long red hair who stood out or whether you could puff up to intimidate your way out of having to actually fight.
As someone who spent many of their childhood years training in karate, it really does vary a ton between schools. I was trained in a shito-ryu school and we were taught both for sport/competition, and real self defence. And they definitely taught us some very brutal yet effective techniques for life and death situations. In sparring we did do full-contact with some protective gear so we were conditioned to take hits really hard too.
But there's a lot of vulnerability. We were taught some grappling but there's very little that was taught about what to do when you're taken to the ground. I really learned how to fight when I started sparring with friends from school who all practiced different martial arts.
Well i think attacking someone that is on the ground is not honorable so maybe thats it
@@anonamemous6865 in a real fight you have to win at all costs cause you don't know if the opponent will kill you or smth. In most cases, honor and pride are bs, they won't let you do what you want.
"Time spent kicking is time not spent punching".
Great, great point.
It's important to cover weaknesses, but is also crucial to focus on strength.
Time is limited and being smart means allocate enough time to cover major holes while specializing in a single good offense.
On one side every skills gives diminishing returns after a while: After 3y BJJ + 1y Judo + 1y Muay Thai will be much more effective at defending an average fighter than a 5y BJJ.
On the other side if they fight each other, they will get to the ground and the 5y BJJ will probably win.
And it gets even more complicated, because learning curves are different, because some martial arts skills simply require more time to be learned, 5y of boxing you get relatively at a higher level technically wise compared to a 5y Judoka (not saying you get to the top, just saying in boxing is more about mastering a simpler skillset than covering a wide skillset like in Judo).
So it could be smarter to allocate some time even to sub-optimal fighting styles, because you get the benefits quicker.
And than there is the population effect. Widespread martial arts produce more high level fighters. This is a simple game of numbers, but can skew the perception in favor of these disciplines. Being a world top 10 Judoka/Boxer is harder compared to as being a top 10 Wrestler.
To speak to Krav Maga, i did about 2 years in my teens, I'll be fair and say that my school wasn't the best but 80% of what we trained for was realistic scenarios for self-defence and I think that was also the primary goal of Krav Maga. Usually 3 main focuses, good punches, kicking and wrestling for if you're forced to fight.
I would probably agree more or less with you if you're talking about winning the fight, however when you're ranking on the basis of self defence, your chances of survival go down drastically if you choose to actively fight, ANYONE teaching actual self defence should teach how to deflect, distract and run if possible.
Self-defence is about self-preservation and not staying in the fight, unless you're ABSOLUTELY out of those options, which is honestly so fucking rare.
For most fights most training goes straight out the window for pretty much anyone with only 1-2 years of experience.
Krav Maga taught me a good situational awareness of who and what are in my surrounding area and how to get out alive. I agree that Krav Maga is a mixed bag of everything, but you're taught how to survive which is the purpose of it, not to necessarily be good/amazing at fighting, but good enough to get out of said situations.
The thing with krav maga (and I am talking about the traditional Israel one that is used in the SF) is that it has no rules, since it is used for when a soldier might lose their weapon, this is why pushing in the nuts, eyes, throat is acceptable and is why there are no competitions except for the shitty worldwide
That is why any good Krav Maga school will have you be already experienced in some martial art like boxing, karate, muay thai, etc. and to build your cardio.
Worst thing about Krav Maga is there are no competitions for it so you are not getting to practice it in a close to real life situation
@@Mark-wq5uw but that's easy to get around, sure krav maga organisations might not sponsor any such thing but you could do so unofficially.
At least in the gym I went to we did that for fun and also sparred with outside people
Same experience but for 4 years. You kind of nailed the experience.
Great video! My only 2 cents is that boxing should be rated around A or B. You fell into the same trap with boxing as you almost did during the Judo rating when comparing how a Judoka would do against BJJ on the ground. We shouldn't rate how boxers can deal with a grappler. We have to assess how the martial art would work in a street fight situation against an average person (not a high level practitioner of another martial art). Therefore, boxers would do very well because of their good understanding of distance, range, reflexes, athleticism, and a relentless toughness. The speed and technique with which a boxer can anticipate an attack, cut an angle, and land a devastating blow is very effective. Not to mention, an average person won't be able to simply take down a skilled boxer so easily. There are obvious scenarios where it's not effective if a boxer is caught in a sucker punch or ambushed unexpectedly. Even a wrestler can be knocked out cold if he's caught at the wrong moment. In terms of self defense against a real life situation, boxers are very well equipped to neutralize an attacker. Perhaps I am wrong, and I am happy to hear other thoughts. Thank you for the video!
Im 15 and i do boxing. But you would need a little ground work.
@@aibutttickler have fun bjj'ing multiple attackers, like wtf
@@aibutttickler You said boxing would be a poor choice going against multiple attackers. I respectfully disagree. Given that fighting against multiple guys at once is a stupid idea anyway, what better martial art / combat sport is there besides boxing IF one had to?
@@aibutttickler no fighting style martial art or anything truly sets u up for 1v2+ but ground work will set u up for 1v1 to ground. But the best is gun training. Could set u up for a 1v12+
@@aibutttickler Boxing might be one of the best martial arts for multiple attackers because you are great at keeping distance while striking and keeping your balance planted on both feet.
BJJ or any kicking martial arts puts you at great risk by either going for takedowns or kicking against multiple opponents because they could easily overwhelm you
Really liked the discussion about how the economics of gym management shapes what is taught. Would watch a whole video on that.
My traditional Japanese Jujutsu school does live training where we sit back to back, the count down and then go at each other throwing grappling and sometimes striking until a submission.
I took both Judo and Wrestling. I have always thought that my Judo was more helpful in a self-defense situation. As I listened to you two talk you made a lot of sense. The thing is my Sensei always made a point to differentiate between sports and self defense. There are subtle differences, and even some sports moves that don't translate at all. No sane person is busting out a double knee drop or flying scissor on concrete. So I thought about situations I've been in where I've used these skills (back before my shoulders where held together with duct tape and crazy glue). It often went like this. While standing I'd primarily use Judo principles to take someone to the ground. Once on the ground I'd primarily use wrestling to get control, then switch to Judo (normally a choke) to end it. But this is coming from a school that was very careful to make the distinction and even had one practice a month dedicated to self defense over sports form. I should also point out that I'm old, and the last time I practiced you could still grab the leg USJA Judo.
I would be shocked if any serious Judoka would claim Judo mat work is anywhere near BJJ. BJJ is Judo mat work focused and refined. I learned almost all my useful mat work from wrestling. at hi levels you will most often see both Judokas quickly back to their feet as neither really wants to be on the mat for long. The exception being when the finishing of a throw opens up an obvious choke or arm bar.
Anyway, thanks for changing my mind on that.
how long did you train both in Judo and in wrestling? :)
What do you say are the main differences between the two sports (apart of the gi) ?
When I did randori in Judo I saw that some foot sweeps and de ashis worked *sometimes* almost effortless.
There were really times where i threw much heavier guys with "relative ease" and no real physical effort. (given of course, the opponents had to attack with judo throws themselves, which made them easily to off balance =ruleset)
Is it also possible for wrestlers to take bigger guys down?
@@captainkirk7513 I did each for about 7 years.
They are really quite different as sports with some overlap. The goal in Wrestling is always to get to the mat and pin. You gain points for taking control on mat (getting on top) or for having one shoulder blade touch for a set amount of time. There is no scoring system for "take downs".
You can win by pin in Judo, but you aren't really as incentivized to do so. In wrestling a win for a pin is 3 seconds both shoulder blades touching the ground. While in Judo it's 20 seconds with at least on shoulder blade touching.
When I was making the transition they wrestlers started to get into Judo and they were dragging people to the mat for pin. Since Judo didn't train sprawls there was no real defense. The result was the USJA started to change rules, all take downs had to include some form of sweep. And I believe later on they outlawed leg attacks at all.
As far as application with a weight difference, I'd say wrestling is more effective on the ground in this regard, but while standing Judo throws take much less effort or lifting. In a multiple attacker scenario, wrestling becomes almost useless. If you take one person to the ground the others could easily stop you or attack you while you are their fairly defenseless. To defend yourself you'd have to let the person up anyway. While Judo allows you to throw and stay on your feat moving on to another opponent. Obviously, there is no marital style that is good against multiple opponents, so perhaps we can say Judo is less bad in this regard.
In my personal experience I've found most of the Ashi Waza techniques to be the most useful in real world fighting situations. Very few people in a street fight have any preparation for them. Koshi Waza techniques are probably second, but getting in position for them puts you at more risk when it comes to striking. The caveat is I'm old and haven't had a real fight in at least 25 years.
UFC is 90% Wrestling 10% BJJ now. Wrestling is the ultimate form of fighting (every culture has a wrestling martial arts, not all have striking ones) , judo is a wrestling with clothes (great for winter soldiers/winter nations). You gotta check the Wrestler training regiment... its brutal. My only issue with Wrestling (in canada at least)... its soo hard to find a school.
Some clubs have 5050 ground and stand up and some of their guys are real good. But your right bjj focuses 💯 on ground they are more competent naturally on ground.
I watched a street fight between two guys. Both guys had 4-6 friends each with them. It started out as a one-on-one fight. One guy (let's call him Guy #1) was much better in the stand-up fighting, and immediately started getting the better of the other guy (Guy #2) while on the feet. Guy #2 (who obviously had some wrestling background), shot in and easily took guy#1 down, landed on top of him, started raining down punches. IMMEDIATELY, guy#1's friend jumped in, and started punching and kicking Guy #2 from behind. Then EVERYONE jumped in, and it was just a wild melee. At that point, NO MARTIAL ART was useful because it was just a wild free for all, with guys just running around and blindsiding one guy, running to another guy, and blindsiding him, etc. It was 1 on 1; 2 on 1; 4 on 1. It was just wild and uncontrolled. At that point, in my opinion the best sport to train you for a real life, wild, street fight with no rules would be rugby. Because in rugby, you have lots of physical contact between very strong and athletic men. And there's just lots of running around, smashing into each other, and ganging up on one another.
I've been doing budo shotokan karate since the age of six (I'm turning 18 this year) and I do genuinely feel like our increased focus on actual self defense situations, practicing fighting without a rule set (dojo kumite), fighting against multiple people at the same time and general combative prowess gives us a pretty good chance of succeeding in self defense situations. I personally have had to use it multiple times and it has never let me down. We also practice both avoiding getting taken to the ground and downing and controlling people without going to the ground ourselves.
Edit: about the giving away belts easily, I only have a brown belt and I have graded faster than average. I also do actively self-train MMA and boxing so that could have something to do with the successful self defense but hey, I base most of my training on the principles of my karate knowledge
Other edit hahah: I've had the first 15-20 years of karate described to me as a sieve because of the fact that an incomplete understanding of the fundamentals of karate is incredibly flawed. Once you get to the level you really need to get to to fully use what you've learned, all the gaps are bridged and it forms a universally useful mental and physical megastructure that can rival most.
Loooool, no
I did shotokan karate for 2 years when I was 6-7 and I kinda agree.
I quit before I started sparring but my instructor was very serious about pointing out whats tradition and what’s practical and that an attacker isn’t going to move the way you think they are, and there’s a risk that there’s more than one.
This was coming from a guy who grew up in a touch city and had been in a LOT of fights. He was friends with my moms older brothers who also, got in a lot of fights around high school, and did boxing and wrestling at school. My uncles and even my mom were so bad they put people in the hospital, and no school wanted more than one of them as students at a time.
So, yeah, as long as it’s not a Mcdojo, karate can be pretty good
Congratulations, wonderful objective and quite accurate overview! As Icy Mike said, the key aspect is awareness and specific training for unexpected and surprising situations, with full contact sparring and body balance awareness. If I would be looking for a school as a beginner to give useful self defense skills in 2 years then this is what I would be looking for. Also, to make it work, one needs to put in a LOT of effort. Joining a great school and taking it half-ass will not translate to any useful skills at all. So, it's a sensible approach to go from the top of the list you have created, and visit the schools in this order and sick to the one that has the most sparring, most prepping for unexpected situations while providing a solid background and foundation first. Going full contact with no pasic prep is just asking for a permanent injury, so one needs not be afraid of a bad situation, just get hurt right away and likely for life. I know too many friends who were badly hurt in half-baked full contact schools.
So, last bit of advice for the school hunt: look for signs of intelligence, and that there is a lot of emphasis on the safety of the students. Not pampering, (actually the less protective gear the better - as you won't have any of that in real life) but solid foundations on how to calibrate your attacks so people learn how to land a solid punch without causing bodily harm, how to fall, etc. Also, very good indicator of usefulness is when sparring includes defense against all sorts of techniques / styles, and the instructor invites other style's instructors or practitioners to spar along or compare skills. About Wing Chun: sadly I have seen too many schools in the US which fail miserably (F grade) for self defense. This is also reflected by the so-called WC fights on YT, where the opponents show much more Wing Chun skills than the supposedly WC guy does. My school was at the opposing end of the spectrum (HWTO 1990s, Wing Tsun in Hungary). My instructors were also training special forces, so we practiced on the extreme practical side. The sure thing is that training intensity, building specific awareness and constant readiness are key.
HWTO is Ip Man's version of Wing Chun. Its no regular WC at all actually, he used less kicks and more Trough-The-Wall punches.
Krav Maga is what you need 💯 👍
This was actually highly subjective, despite all pretension to the contrary.
As someone who has done several martial arts, and several ‘styles’ of Aikido, I understand the hesitation and rank for Aikido (in general), but with a really good teacher who understands the application in self defence I think it’s actually pretty good. Aikido has saved my life a couple of times and the skills help me win a 3 on 1 street attack. Despite all the valid criticisms of it I’m valuing it more for self defence these days than I used to. It is highly dependent however on the teacher and student. Another video I saw recently from an Aikido sensei with a very practical focus made a really good point about frame vs intensity. Combat sports are ritual combat, there are rules and so on, whereas (good) Aikido is a survival art with no rules and where breaking limbs, joints, and soft tissue strikes are part of it. This makes it very hard to train or pressure test safely, it also allows weak technique and sloppy practice to fill the gap in less good schools, which is indeed a weak point.
I feel I was blessed with my first two teachers, both taught non-sport martial arts, both were honest in saying what I would learn would never be recognized by any official body, both while they did have a primary style also included other styles. My first Sensei taught Aikido but also taught Judo, Jujitsu, and Kyusho. My second Sensei taught Karate but also taught Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jujitsu, Escrima, and JKD. As I was being taught I came to realize the techniques I was learning were ones that had become banned in competitions and tournaments which is why i was told I would never be recognized by any official body. My first Sensei taught how not to become a victim my second Sensei taught how not to get killed. I also had the benefit of both my teachers were friends and even learned from each other, so when I showed interest in techniques not taught by my first Sensei he pointed me to learn from my Second Sensei while also continuing training with him. It was not until after the passing of my Sensei that I asked my Second Sensei to complete the basic training of my first Sensei to the rank of black belt while at the same time becoming a student in his style. Yet again when I showed interest in techniques not taught by my second Sensei that he encouraged me and helped me find instructors of the techniques I was interested in such as kenjitsu. Self defense wise I would have to say my second Sensei better prepared me, because three core teachings 1: anything you can do while standing you can do on the ground. 2. anything you can do empty hands you can do with your feet. 3. anything you can do empty hands you can do with a weapon (really stressing a weapon is just an extension of the body). One great thing about my both my Sensei was there willingness to adapt and change their teachings overtime. Seeing how they had taught students in the past was very different how they taught me and they said this was because overtime they had learned what just works better and applied it. They largely did this by studying with and exchanging teachings with other Sensei. This open mindedness kept them from becoming stale and instead kept them and their styles' fresh and applicable to changes in the modern world.
Same. I studied Shotokan in the late 90's and early 2000's.
My first teacher would keep me after class and teach me more realistic applications. He even incorporated other styles that he had trained, including Judo, jui jitsu (almost no one knew what that was), and boxing.
He had dealth with bullies as a kid, and even fought off two robbers in Spain. One had a knife. He was cut, but he was able to run them off.
He was in medical school, and was teaching to support his way through college.
When he left, the guy that took over the dojo was out of shape, and terrible.
So I quit. I wish that I would have found a better alternative, but I switched my attention to chasing girls.
I really wish that I would have stuck with martial arts.
@@letsdothis9063 I almost never even got into martial arts. I was in my late 30's and was finishing up college and I wanted to take up a hobby that would get me out of the house. My brother-law was taking martial arts and I went to one of the classes, afterwards I spoke with the Sensei about what I wanted and expected, we talked for an hour more and then I became his student. Little did I know he was friends and had even trained with the man who would become my second Sensei four years later, although during my training he did lend me training DVD's of my second Sensei. This made transitioning from the first style to the second style easier because I was already familiar with it from the DVD's, added bonus my second Sensei and I went to the same high school. After they both passed away. I decided I would not go to any other schools but would just focus on what they both taught me and add to them both, which turned out to be so much that it became its own style.
A funny thing about my first Sensei was every technique began in right lead, so after 4 years of always starting in the right lead, my second Sensei began every technique in left lead, sometimes because of damaged hearing when he said get into left lead, I would got to right lead from muscle memory, to which he would say "Your other left", which is actually the name I gave to my style (which like both styles blended techniques from various styles that neither of them taught but I had learned over the years.
The wonderful thing is I am now in my early 50's and I still do all 3 styles while also looking to improve on techniques with channels like this.
Sensei 1: Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jujitsu, Escrima, and JKD. Sensei 2: Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, and Kyusho. Man, don't you think that's too much? When I used to train one sensei used to teach only one martial art.
@@voozd Nor did I or my Sensei's think it was too much, especially when one understands how the names and styles given to martial arts today were just sub-divisions of older martial arts like Dait0-Ryu Akijujitsu which the Japanese masters had studied only later did they take from what they had learned to form styles of Judo, Aikido, Jujitsu, Kendo, etc in the process rejecting a lot of what they did learn. One of the goals for why my Senseis did this was to show the divisions in martial arts were not as divided as most think. Example a straight punch is the same no matter the martial art, it may vary some such as starting position , and each style has its own name for this technique but in the end the results are the same.
Sounds like a great pair of teachers! For me, teacher 1: Hwa Wrang Do. Sensei 2: Aikido with a sprinkling of Karate and Jiujitsu.
I trained in the late 90s and aughts in traditional jiujitsu where I learned it was heavily based on pressure testing. Maybe 25% of our training was fitness and fall safety, 30% was technique instruction and the rest of the time we were either pressure testing drills (do whatever you can think of to stop the technique we just learned) or straight sparring.
Our school worked with local cops (one of our senior guys was the hand to hand instructor for our local equivalent to SWAT) and we shared facilities with a boxing gym and cross trained with them a bunch. But I was always taught that the contact and pressure emphasis was a big part of the style. I’m mind blown at the idea that other/majority of schools don’t teach pressure testing/sparring/serious resistance.
I practiced for quite a while Jiu Jitsu in Costa Rica in the 90s, and my Sensei was similar. Every single session there was sparring and pressure testing. 3+ hours sessions, 3 times per week. We kicked, punched, locked, practiced throws, rolled and so on. It had a lot of striking and, of course, Judo techniques. Also, the Sensei was always keen on learning and sharing other styles when possible (he told us to actually to try to add Karate, Boxing, Judo, etc. if possible). He also recommended us to stay fit, go for a run often and so on. I am not sure, but it seems they dont really know much about traditional or Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Anyway, good stuff.
I trained in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu for twelve years. The first four of those were dominated by strength and conditioning; cooperative practice of strikes, locks and throws; kata; and *break* *falls*. The next four mixed in bunkai, limited contact sparring and contested practice of locks and throws. It wasn't until year nine that I was encouraged to take part in sparring that was restricted only against strikes to the eyes and throat (if you weren't wearing a cup that was on you) and the reasoning was that if you were going to be going anywhere close to full speed while doing joint locks and submissions, you were going to have enough control that you could do the moves without injuring your partner.
And we never, ever stopped doing the break falls.
There is no such thing as "Japanese Jiu-Jitsu! It's just Ju Jutsu. Jiu-Jitsu is the Brazilian pronunciation of Ju Jutsu.
@@ryugarai2668 Didn't realize my autocorrect did that. That's wild.
@@ryugarai2668 Right, but more people are familiar with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and won't recognise the spelling difference. Calling it "Japanese Jujutsu" helps casual observers understand you might not be talking about the thing they are thinking of.
People will do anything not to fight.
Four years of strength and conditioning? That's basically being scammed.
Best martial arts comparison content on the internet!
I was a police officer for 18 years and one thing, that lacked in our training, was self defense. There are techniques in all martial arts, which would probably help, but for me, what really helped was getting into boxing, then Jiu-jitsu. From there, I started training in an MMA class, which taught a bit of everything combined, that I'd already worked at and how to apply things, in a self defense type of situation.
I guess that’s why most of you just shoot anything that moves.
scared little piggy cant throw a punch so he joined a gang
@@BeefDog666all u have is bad takes
@@williamwest9204 what do you mean by that
@@BeefDog666: insecure guy makes an overly manly and devil worshipping username and spends time trying to alleviate his insecurity and probably criminal tendencies by writing childish insults to a respectful and intelligent comment made by a cop on a TH-cam video.
This has been tremendously helpful. I am pushing myself to get some fitness, self-defense skills, and expand my friendships beyond work and my immediate friend circles through joining a local martial arts gym soon. I've taken Aikido for several years during my high school days knowing that it had no "full-contact sparring" and I did not mind it, because I did not have that competitive spirit like others. And still don't lol. Xu Xiao Dong's situation was the one that woke me up to what is bullshido and what is not. I think I'm going to go check out my local UFC MMA gym now based on your guys' assessment. Thanks for posting! Subscribed =)
Based off my coach and my own beliefs on bjj, I believe it’s fine as a stand alone in competition and in self defense, however I believe that bjj truly shines when used in tandem with a striking martial art, boxing, muay thai so on so forth. Being used on its own in a self defense situation can work, but it’s a very versatile art that can feel as though it was made to be used as support with something meant more for power
This is great. I currently train in a blend of Goshin Jiu Jitsu and Shito ryu. We train to get in close, block hard, conditioning, joint locks and throws. We also train ground fighting.