Proof That Most Knife Defense Doesn't Work
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2018
- There are many knife defense methods yet few were stress tested under live circumstances by regular people. These great guys decided to test out a few different approaches themselves and to see the results.
While this video received some attention on their original post, I wanted to share it with a wider audience since it really deserves more attention.
Original description: "My friend and I attempting some stress testing and myth busting of various knife defense systems found on TH-cam, with input from a few medical experts on the injuries we would have sustained and our final thoughts after trying them."
Original post on reddit: / my_friend_and_i_attemp...
Original channel of Stress Testing Knife Defense video:
• Stress Testing Knives
What are your thoughts about this stress testing knife defense video? Did you ever try to stress test your knife defense techniques? - กีฬา
This great video comes from of the reddit users named Spear99. I loved the video so much and thought that it will be beneficial to see for more people, so here it is on Martial Arts Journey. Hope you all like it.
Martial Arts Journey thanks for the publicity! Been following your channel with interest and hope to see more from you in the future.
As you can see from my profile picture I do full contact armored fighting with weapons, the only issue I see is they keep moving into the arc of the weapon. I do fight against this exact situation and it is better if you can to make them miss and get outside - a draw cut is painful but more survivable than a stab. The Krav Maga strike and parry then stepping outside and pushng them away by the shoulder and elbow is what I do. However someone with 20+ years of weapons fighting isn't the normal person. In real life try and distract or hurt them and escape or gain space to draw a gun - period. Don't try to take it away or grapple - even the experienced grappler missed at times and got merc'd.
Thanks for sharing! Have you see the post about savate in mma and aikido in your forum?
This was excellent, putting techniques to the test in a realistic way is where you learn the most in my opinion.
Couple of other things I would like to see tried:
1. A leading leg side kick (yeop chagi)
There is a front leg side kick sometimes used in Tae kwon do by the defender to thrust into the lower body of the attacker when they move forwards into punching range, I think it would be good for countering a knife too.
Pros: The kick is fast and when its aimed at the lower body it can be done without telegraphing its about to happen and is hard to block. The length of the leg would keep the attacker at a safe distance and means the defender has a longer range strike than the attacker.
Cons: The attacker can stab the leg. Also I am not sure how it would turn out in the confines of a room, the small space may catch up with the defender eventually.
2. Keeping the left arm pinned to the body, right hand used to strike. In Kali Arnis, when you do a strike with a baton or knife your left arm is always kept in this pinned position that is a bit like how a boxer pulls their arm in to protect from a body blow. The main difference is that your left fist is placed over your heart (knuckles out) to give it some protection. This posture was developed specifically for protecting you in a knife fight with another eskrimador and is the result of people who have actually fought on the streets with real knives. My idea is use this pinned left arm to take the stabs while at the same time use your right arm to either parry or strike to the attackers head (like krav maga) or maybe punch the attackers right bicep so they begin to lose strength in that arm.
If the attacker starts slashing towards the head or neck then the left arm should be raised up into a normal boxing guard to block or parry.
Pros: Most of the marks on the shirts were on that left side of the body around the ribs or in the centre of the chest, the pinned left arm would take those hits instead as it covers almost all the vital areas.
Cons: you have to get stabbed in the arm a lot as there is now almost no blocking happening except what you can manage with your right hand.
3. Muay thai long guard and a body kick using that shoulder shove against the arm with the knife is a lot like a muay thai defence used to stop punches. its often used by practitioners who use the Long Guard (a type of guard thats different from boxing guard, lead arm stretch right out to unbalance opponent, it's pretty rare though) and it could be made even more effective by taking advantage of an opening it creates.
Because the attackers right arm is always forwards and stabbing or searching for a stab it means the attackers right ribcage is vulnerable to a body kick from the defenders left leg (this takes some training though).
Pros: the footwork of both the body kick and shoulder push work well together and if you get one or two good body kicks in then the natural reaction is to bring the arm in closer to the damaged ribs to protect them. In this case that would be the attackers knife hand.
Cons: hard to time body kicks on someone that is intent on getting into grappling range (although pushing on the shoulder puts them right back in range again) also a body kick from the leading leg is hard to do unless you have trained it quite a bit.
Just my 2 cents worth, may be of interest to someone somewhere.. or not.
TheStressTest
Yes indeed pressure test. Who could argue against it? Awesome. Great, but at the very least, shouldn't you pressure test skills you have actually acquired? I say this cuz it doesn't seem(at least where I noticed during the aikido part)that you guys are doing the same thing as the videos you are citing.
not to mention that 98% of the time you wont even see the knife coming until you get stab by it.
love forever I know of a dude who just thought a guy was punching him until he saw his throat spraying blood. Cut his carotid. Somehow survived. Now he looks like a horror movie prop. True story.
Yup thats why the smart self defender practises basic parkour moves, sprints (to get out of dodge fast) and long distance so you have the stamina to escape. Only fight if you are corned and have no way out.
That's my best defense as a disabled man who studies adaptive fighting no one will likely want to kill me like that.
if the attacker is smart yes, they will conceal it until the very last second
If they know what they are doing, yes. Absolutely true!
Reminds me of that immortal quote from the Punisher:
"When in a knife fight, you're gonna get cut.
Expect it.
Accept it."
Which is why it's bullshit to say Batman can beat Wolverine in hand to hand combat. John Byrne et co. were wrong. 6 long Adamantium claw vs. bare knuckles and boots. Obvious outcome.
@@B.B.Digital_Forest ummm i doubt that wolverine can cut trough his armour
@@nikolajj50 We're talking about adamantium man. Batman's armour is made out of what? Kevlar?
@@B.B.Digital_Forest he has gadgets though and he can build armor that can take hits from Superman so....
@@Helltown66 superman has a weakness to kryptonite, wolverine's claws don't
When I was a marine, our hand to hand combat training was immensely lacking. But one thing I was told numerous times, was that against a knife, you WILL get cut. You WILL bleed. You WILL see bone, torn muscle, and maybe worse. Everyone I've ever known with real life encounters has said they'd rather be in a gun fight, any day of their life, than ever be in a knife fight.
Plus knife is really dangerous weapons. But unpredictable, because some people still fighting with a countless stabbing wounds, and some people die very fast by 1 accidental stab or slash.
me too. im wondering if it was intentional? to keep us thinking about fighting at distance instead of risking close combat? I had a friend in infantry, and his close comabt training basically broke down to platoon brawls, lol :)
Its important to stress the danger because I can't tell you how many times growing up Ive seen people grab knives for self defense with no real intent to kill, just to escalate a situation or be a show of strength, not truly embracing just what a knife can do. They don't see it as a statement of their will to kill.
@@alexferrana3979 And guns are not dangerous?
@@komarkko1 They are, but also much tamer, more predictable, and need training.
He was just saying that knives are dangerous. I don't see why you think that statement undermines the danger of a firearm as well.
Best advice you'll ever recieve on this topic:
1. Stop watching movies
2. Run
@@feoded4823 just go to above comment and read the replies of how dangerous a knife can be
Unless with wife, girlfriend, small child or grandma then………?
@@jasonrudolph491 Then you accept death and fight till one of you is
Well... as the shaolin monk said, "the best martial arts against knife attack is parkour"
I got attacked by a guy with a club. Parkour worked wonders
That’s both hilarious, but true...speaking from experience. However, now I’m old and crippled, the best options for me is avoidance & awareness.
I’m weak 👏🏾👏🏾
They mean run :v
th-cam.com/video/0Kvw2BPKjz0/w-d-xo.html
After years of researches I've concluded that the best defense against knife is gun
Or telekinesis
Or being Wolverine \|/
@Devaedra Foundation Damn. I wanna be ME then
Tear gaz aswell
Not really. If they are close enough to engage with a knife, it's got a lot more potential for damage than a gun.
The best defence in a knife fight is to escape. Real self defence training uses various techniques like what they are showing, as a means of minimizing damage until you can, or so you can, get away.
Instructor: " When the knife comes like this. You do this and that than a backflip and some pull ups ..."
xD
"... provided your attacker stays stock still like this when I go to disarm him, and he doesn't pull bak his arm or follow-through, just stand there like a dummy while I demonstrate how to disarm him successfully."
makes a backflip, breaks the guys neck and saves the day. Very easy , barely an inconvenience.
That's why I spent so much time learning how to backflip :D
"Break the wrist"
3 things to remember in any knife fight.
1) You will get cut. Minimizing major damage is the goal
2) The best defense is a good offense
3) Distance is your friend. Any opportunity to run, take it.
Good points.
I don't agree with point 2.
@@Benjamin-ml7sv clearly you've never been involved in a knife fight.
@@Moosecop32 I have. My best defence turned out to be running away. Not hollywood but I'm still here. Do you think I should have attacked the knife weilding idiot?
@@allosaurusfragilis7782 If you read my comment, you know my answer to your question so I'm confused as to what you're looking for here. I very clearly stated running away is your best option.
Number one rule of knife defense.... RUN AWAY.
Number 2 rule of knife defense... RUN AWAY
in fact the top 10 is RUN AWAY!
I've been doing and teaching martial arts for 34 years and fave practiced many techniques, but realize that in real life it would be a VERY risky proposition. I teach the best option is to run away and not engage if at all possible, and tell try to get across how dangerous knives are.
What drives me crazy is the way many instructors teach, " if this happens, do this" as if it's so easy and works 100% of the time.
Edit: just to clarify though it should be common sense. Run away doesn't mean you turn your back to someone who is close enough to stay you.
Secondly, if your with loved ones you don't leave then behind.
And to that guys, yes I'm an American and yes if I feel think the individual is a threat to me, my loved ones or innocent bystander I would shoot the "bad guy". But even in America most people don't carry a firearm.
Have you seen real knife attack videos online? Running away is rarely an option because the attacker gets close to you before surprising you, often attacking in a tiny space like a shop, elevator, bathroom, or public transportation. If you could always run away no-one would ever get stabbed or killed. Unfortunately, running is often impossible. Especially think of it like this. Most knife-murders are by loved ones in the home in a bathroom, bedroom, or kitchen
Running away sounds good, unless the attacker is determined to stab you - since they may then chase you.
Every knife defense class I've been to, the instructors made it clear that plan A is to GET AWAY, but in the event plan A is not an option, say in a close quarters situation with a loved one present then option B is to fight, get cut, but fight, it's all about raising your odds of survival when running is not an option, may none of us ever be in such a position.
This. Common Sense, First Defense.
Se você não pode correr então está morto, não? E por que não aplicar a mesma lógica a qualquer situação de agressão e esquecer de vez as artes marciais?
I really appreciate the honesty in this video, good lesson.
In my experience, while it is true that in most cases you are going to take damage and perhaps face critical injury or death, it is better to have at least some training in responding to cold weapons rather than none at all. I took multiple stabs to the torso while working as a bouncer, my stabvest bought me enough time to actually respond to the weapon, but it was some pretty basic techniques that allowed me to use that window of opportunity.
like everyone else says, the best solution is always to avoid the fight, by situational awareness or running if possible, but sometimes that is not an option, and i can tell you for sure you'd be happy to at least have some tools or relevant muscle memory if you are in that situation.
so what does that mean? to me personally, it means that knife training is not redundant but has to include realistic and highspeed sparring, rather than 12 to 6'oclock chops and giant swings. Is it gonna teach you to Jason bourne your way out of anything? absolutely not, is there a chance that it might ever so slightly increase your chances of survival? absolutely.
Girls in the room: Gossip and make up
Boys in the room: Practicing how to defend from a knife attack
😁
uhm as a girl i could probably take you on lol 🤣
@@guadalupetapia9363 no sweethearth you would get knocked the f* out. Your bone and muscle structure is not meant to fight, men and women are not created equal. You should find a good husband and treat him well.
@@Azur_Filip gold, red pill is gaining momentum. I love to see men waking up.
I love how they laugh when a technique doesn't work
This is something I dont get.
In any practical type of fighting style, you assert the notion that things like jabs are too fast for natural reflexes, and you keep your guard up to avoid being hit. You ARE going to get punched.
But suddenly, like some "experts" on the comments, this isn't true with knives. According to them you can capitalize on one moment and this video "lacks technique". Bullshit.
let's not forget the "bonus reach". Even if you've got super reflexes, if you block at the wrists, there's the extra X length that's probably going to get you.
jabs are too fast for reflexes? I guess boxers didnt get the memo. The point of comments suggesting things like "lacks technique" isnt apropos nothing - you cant just "try" something and then come to the conclusion that it doesnt work because it didnt work for you. Look you've brung up an excellent example - many people in the "self defense" community do indeed claim that punches are too fast for reflexes.... and yet YOU must be aware that there is a sport where one side of the coin is dodging punches, including at close range, TRAINED and educated punches, from talented athletes, and you are also further probably aware, having even seen it yourself, of completely untrained people dodging punches in street fights.... so, is the claim that punches are too fast for reflexes really true? No its not. Its a projection of the persons inability to do something. To be able to reliably dodge punches, especially multiple punches at a close range, requires a great deal of practice. a great deal. Years worth of realistic training. Why would you assume that defensive maneuvers against a knife are any different? These guys do not looked practiced at these maneuvers at all. Its very hard to draw any conclusion about the relative worth of any technique from stuff like this, other than the obvious conclusion that novices perform poorly, which is true of every field in life including non-violent ones.
@@davidprivate949 yet even the fastest of boxers still get hit
@@davidprivate949 Good Boxers, once they have a read on the tempo of their opponent, will apply the right movement to dodge or counter-hit offence, maybe the read is on a jab yes. No human being on Earth can react to a jab based only on reflexes and I think there is no argument there that is pretty much a fact based on the time it takes for a jab to hit, human reaction time and the time it takes for a dodge to be completed (considering of course that the jab was well aimed). In a street fight you can expect a barrage of fists going your way and try to time head movement to dodge and if you are skilled enough and the opponent compulsive enough too, you might indeed dodge the punches and look like you are in the matrix. Now, the moment the opponent uses a different rhythm and throws differently than what you expected you will maybe get hit, which is what happens in most street fights.
I am not an expert boxer but I have been practicing muai thai for some years now and I get pissed when when the sport is simplified by things like what you say about reflexes when the reality is deeper and much more interesting. I encourage anyone to try to react to random jab :) even if you have boxed for years you will not be able to just move out of the way unless you know for sure that a jab is coming.
Coming back to knives. I think the video does do a good job a showing what a real life scenario could look like (and even be pretty optimistic). The thing is that I believe that stabs are really fast, cause a lot of damage if not outright kill and cannot be predicted 100% and these techniques probably work if you have a good read on what the attacker is gonna do. But you do not get to go for a few practice rounds with the attacker before any of this goes down so in my opinion the prospect of surviving a knife attack with mastery of knife defense is super low, perhaps just slightly better than if you didnt have any training or poor training.
@@LuistrAmalgo luis, i was a boxer including having been a national champ in the ammies. You are telling me a jab or any punch can only be dodged preemptively and im telling you i have dodged literally thousands of punches as a trained reflex reaction, reading the hand coming at my head. Again, novices have trouble doing something reliably and then project that to everyone and say it cant be done. I cant "bend it like beckham" either.. in fact i cant do anything of any level of competency with a soccer ball but now try to imagine how asinine it is if i were to suggest to beckham what he could do in his prime was merely a trick and not a product of great skill and that its not possible for any other footballer to acquire this level of skill. I also cant make the split second decisions in a car that a F1 driver can. I will reiterate: these guys dont look very practiced at any of the maneuvers they are "trying" and yet they are trying to draw conclusions as to what "works? You say you are a thai boxer, if so, presumably when you first started training you had the experience of being dumped on your ass from the clinch over and over right? And this wouldve continued even AFTER you "learned" the correct defence because developing competency takes a lot of time and a lot of failure. Now imagine in this analogy, you tell your kru that the defence simply "doesnt work" because it didnt the first few times you tried it. Obviously competency is an important and even crucial factor in how well ANY martial art techniques can "work". And its funny if i explain this in the context of bjj or boxing everyone finds that very easy to understand and agrees almost in a "yeah, duh" but explain this in the context of the "reality self defense" crowd and all of the sudden im apparently really hard to understand and no way that cant be right because if you cant learn to do something in a 3 day workshop it just "doesnt work"
This confirms what I've always thought about demonstrating certain moves. They only work when the attack passively goes along with it.
The most realistic and professional knife defence techniques video!!!
Thank you :)
Pretty bullshit you meant. If you show aggressiveness as much as the knife attacker, the knife will not come pumping as fast. Dealing with 1 strike per 5sec instead of a 5 strikes per secondes. If hides the knife behind his body, strike at the body.
@@gratton5370 Not even close knife has advantage. Best way is either use a weapon ,kick in the ball's or pepper spray. The guy has a knife is more flexible it's not inpossible to dishoalarm him but it's not worth the risk if your a average joe.
lookup i think it was called fight smart
I survived by hitting their knees but i got cut like 24 times both severe and normal cuts on my legs and chest.. but i almost killed the guy. We are both almost dead lmao...
The reality of a knife fight is, if it's real- someone is going to die
Martial arts saved my life against a knife attack,So your wrong .
Yes, your wrong. Kali saved my life.
If the person with the knife has ANY idea of what they're doing, for sure.
If they have NO clue of what they're doing AND aren't really intent on going after the person, AND they're not in good shape, AND the person defending themselves DOES know what they're doing at a high level, then the defender MIGHT go home alive with just a few cuts.
But any bit of intensity with someone in halfway decent shape with an actual sharp blade and you're definitely suffering damage.
If the person has any of that AND actually knows what to do with a knife, if you're unarmed and don't run, you're going to die if they really want you to and a paramedic can't get you stitched up quickly, just a matter of when.
Not allways, one friend is alive and well, he just took about a year of therapy to recover from his wounds , perfectly doable
Only 0-4% of knife attacks cause death so no.
Your wrong by a VERY large margin.
I had a student once get incredulous when I explained how stupid knife fighting was. To illustrate we donned on black shirts, dipped our rubber knives in chalk and we at it.
Neither of us survived
So someone who has survived a few knife fights in the street is no concern for you ? They gunna die because you have a knife too ? You know it's just possible that people who carry knives know how to use them... not all but how you going to know, right? The knife game is all about having one ready while your opponent is surprised. In a face-off the winner is the one who didn't act second... ie. being first to cut or first to see the intent to cut and react.
@@michaelforansich8090 that's why I carry a gun instead.
@@amoose8439 sure but depends on range... inside 6 feet/2m a knife is usually the winner. Just ask any law enforcer who's faced a knife weilder... its part of their training to maintain distance... but not everyone in a street situation is going to get that opportunity
By street, i mean not in the dojo/class. Could be in the hall way, shopping center, bus stop, or in your house.
@@michaelforansich8090 that's not a fkn knife fight. That's just an ambush.
If I drop a television on your head from 10 stories high, you wouldn't call that a television fight would you?
You didn't "survive" a knife fight. You sound like you murdered or grievously assaulted someone.
There seems to be some wisdom in Krav Maga's idea of striking and blocking at the same time. Your attacker only needs to get one stab in while you need to block each and every one of his stabs. At least if your fist connects with a throat or an eye, you make it that much harder to get stabbed, might even give you a chance to run.
Exactly. If you're just chasing hands and not making him worry about being hit himself, of course you will meet with results like in the video.
And, also, I don't like two guys just having at it for a short time and deciding everything doesn't work. Techniques work given the right situation. It's your job to figure out when and how they work, and recognize or create opportunities where they do work. Give me any technique and tell me to do it against X, and I guarantee you I'll fail 9 out of 10 times. But let the right thing come out naturally when it's supposed to, and that's a totally different story.
Very true, and not just applicable to knives!
Some of these concepts are asinine 😒
As a Krav Maga Practitioner I have to concur that while this test helps in accessing our technique the test itself is slightly flawed.
1) Both testers were not actually trained in the techniques they just saw it in a video so they haven't gotten the important details of the defense.
2) The attacker after a second successful defense changed up the way he attacked which essentially means the original technique couldn't be applied in the same fashion (ie Straight Stab vs original upward stab). Also the reason why we punch to the face is to hit the nose (which HURTS if you actually hit someone there in real life) and stun the opponent if not knock him out. Where a helmet negates that so the punch is essentially just pissing the knifer off.
3) Any time a knife attacker is so close to you you can smell his breath the only technique is WRESTLING/GRAPPLING. I don't care what system you use YOU NEED TO LEARN GRAPPLING.
Overall way to create a generally entertaining but misleading video guys 😅
Your open mind and honesty are making for an engaging and informative journey, Rokas. One Hollywood myth that is also often overlooked in knife “defense” videos, in my opinion, is the idea that “minor” cuts to the arms and hands are inconsequential. We see lots of videos where, in the process of trying to gain control, the defender receives lacerations on their hands, forearms, biceps, etc. These are often not mentioned, or are brushed off as the “unavoidable injuries”. But any knife can and will cut through the myriads of nerves and tendons in those areas and potentially render the defender’s grips useless. And that’s before we consider veins, arteries, and blood loss. I don’t have an answer on how to “deal” with this: just an observation and some food for thought! Thanks for all that you’re doing - keep at it, and enjoy learning process and journey!
I don't think people say they're inconsequential. They say they're survivable. Better to be stabbed in an arm than in your stomach right? That's the logic. Many people survive knife attacks with lacerations. Rather, beware of trainers that tell you that avoiding all lacerations is even possible in most cases. The lacerations are the realism part of the scenario. Of course they should be avoided when possible. But in a real knife attack, walking away with zero injuries or cuts is 9 times out of 10 Hollywood fiction, no matter how good of a martial artist you are
Actually, while they're horrific to look at afterwards, most knife wounds are superficial. As long as you protect the 'bleeders' and dont get stabbed in the gut, most people dont even notice most wounds, until the attack is over and start checking themselves. Thats exactly what adrenaline and tunnel vision is evolved to accomplish.
@@jonathanoliveros7537 What do you mean by "taken away"? Do you mean spent in defense of vitals or just foolishly wasted?
If you don't reach out or more specifically do not put the arm out (esp. strike the knife arm or somewhere close) you WILL get in a clinch with a knife and WILL get vitals hit and very likely will die. If you do not protect yourself, you will die. If you cannot protect yourself with hands, what else can you protect yourself with? You cannot kick in a clinch. You cannot hope to grab a knife arm securely to lock it either. If you mean stupidly static blocking a knife, that also works for a time. A short time. Then you get in a clinch with a knife which is a bad way to go. Even wasting a hand is better than getting vitals hit because *it does not kill*.
The right mindset is to prevent the knife from reaching you by all means possible and I do mean *all* means. Striking the knife hand, shields, messing with vision, using tools and environment.
That's why lots of systems suggest wrapping a jacket or shirt around your arm. It might work if you are prepared but most knife attacks come out of the blue, so you're fucked anyway.
@@springbloom5940 Hah! This guy thinks you will have time to produce adrenaline and tunnel vision!
I felt suspicious when I suggested to my knife fighting teacher that we suit up and spar with rubber knives as his answer was that it was pointless as both parties always get stabbed.
The fuck was he teaching you then?
@@kauhanen44 Pekiti Tirsia Kali.
@@brianpeck4035 its a very good martial art, and it teaches good knife defense principles but without actually pressure testing and applying those principles.... It's like learning the basics of boxing and never sparred or fight with anyone in the ring. So ur teacher should do it with you imo
@@brianpeck4035 pick another instructor or martial art.
This is what its all about, actually testing claims with a fully resisting opponent.
It's about time somebody did this to expose a lot of frauds! Thanks guys! Give us more!
And this my friends is why you never go into a blade fight if you're not wearing armour :)
Yep. Look into metatron's video. The only 100% sure defense is a rivetted mail armor, and he actually wears it if he ventures into an area known to be problematic. Bonus: If the attacker does the stab-stab-stab-stab attack, mail armor will fuck up his blade in no time, breaking it or making it blunt
A knife can puncture bulletproof gear, especially kevlar.
@rigegs Thanks! No, I did not know about this type of armour, it is research time. Thanks for the input!
Um duh just remove the pommel from your blade and end your opponent rightly. So obvious.
@@andresluna2517 knife stabbers will run for their lives when they see that long sword swinging their way
This should be what is posted on knife defenses videos. It should be more like a trial and error process, try all the techniques you have learned and integrate which effective most. Not those choreographed, one stroke and non resisting knife attackers. Thank you so much for standing the reality and sharing this video even if it was against your art. Martial arts trainers and even those who aren't will have the idea of what are the things that should never do and what to integrate in these kind of situations. Thank you so much! Two thumbs up for this!
Well yes and no, thing is, to be able to use them, you must first train them all a thousand times first, so that you can know how where and when to apply them, and only then, when the reality trial comes, the attacker mustn't know which defense will be tried out, cause techniques are a case where reality can be watered down, but can also be unrealisticly forced in resistance
And it is also important to remember that just because you start with one technique, doesn't mean you can't change into another, adapting accordingly to the attackers condition
These things are usually treated as black and wise, but they aren't always that simple
@@goncalobaia1574 thank you're the only person with common sense in the comment section if you master the technique you can defend your self against a knife. *Period.*
The problem with martial artists training for knife fights is they treat it too much like martial arts. The best places to attack someone with a knife are the targets they already give you: hands, wrists, arms. You don't have to stab someone in the heart to take them out of the fight, just shred their arms and hands to ribbons while they ineffectually try to block the knife with traditional arm blocks.
I trained in Filipino Kali taught by a certified instructor. Filipino knife drills (interactive and "alive") are very good, for knife, as well as stick and empty hand. Years later, I was helping a friend teach his Tae Kwon Do school, and heard a blue belt comment that he "wasn't sweating a knife attack". This brought home how out of touch most people are about just how dangerous a knife is. Run away if you can.
Same Kali is the only thing I feel is effect for survival in all complete honesty, I always say fight fire with fire so better start learning ya know
Here’s a fun exercise Bruce Booker, have your training partner come at you with the sewing machine attack continuous stabbing motions at multiple angles and see how long you can keep deflecting the knife. Or use a red colored marker do this exercise for about fifteen seconds which is longer than most knife fights(knife ambushes)last. Then look at how many red marks you see. You may be very unpleasantly surprised. When I trained with Paul Vunak he would have is fo this exercise. I read a story one time where a martial arts instructor was teaching a reality knife seminar where he teamed a so called knife expert with a house wife with no training. She slipped on the ground stabbing the unfortunate expert in the balls while he flailed at thin air. Whoops. I bet he was embarrassed, we can learn a lot from the Samurai. When you are dead all ready you fight harder because you have nothing to loose. That’s saved my ass many times good luck to you
As I said training in the dojo is not fighting in in the street. I trained kali and wing chin plus Shotokan karate not to turn this into a pissing match. I thought I was hot shit and went to a dog brothers tournament where it’s all out fulll contact not dead patterns and I got my ass handed to me. The same thing Happened to Burton Richardson one of Danny Innosanto’ stop students. He even got his ass kicked in his first full contact tournament. Oh every one should sweat a knife attack trust me over confidence will get you killed. Remember that story I told you about the house wife who stabbed the martial Arts expert dude In The balls because she had that Samurai mind set. I am going to die better make this work. I am sure the karate expert had three thousand techniques under his belt but a woman with no training stabbed him in the balls. Funny old world isn’t it. Best way I know to train against a knife is wear body armor get your self a couple of shock knives and see what happens even if you win you can still die. It gives me tingles just thinking about. I have a trading session tomorrow and that’s how we train. Check out the Dog Brothers if you haven’t already. Best of luck stay safe nice chatting
When you tell the person which defense your going to use they will always counter it
This puts defender in the worse case scenario, and that case is better to see than anything else.
Thank you
This is sadly very overlooked, if a guy pushes the knife against you, you do the defense where you take advamtage of it, if he pulls it toward him, you use THAT against him
People should understand that a self defense scenario isn't supposed to be "use this technique only" because there's always away of countering the defense, the key is to actually practice it all well and not be lazy
Remember this... If you are involved in a knife fight and there's no chance of running away expect to get cut.
No matter how good a martial artist you are you will get caught with a blade be it fatal or superficial.
Steven Holmes Brandon lee had a guy break into his house who grabbed a knife and he dealt with him without getting hurt.
Jack park yeah mayweather is going to disable every knife wielding attacker with his incredible defense
Most likely yes, but the point is to survive the knife attack. Minimize risk at all times, before, during, and after the confrontation, but not training proper knife defence just because it doesn't protect you like plate armour is ridiculous. High-intensity training in the clinch range will give someone the ability to control their opponent.
@@bryanabrego610 no but his insane reflexes and obvious great boxing skills would most likely put out a knife attacker. My bet is on mayweather. He can do that feint jab into backwards dodge and counter with right hand. From what ive seen, if you cant run for whatever reason, its better to keep distance obviously and try to land some jabs and straight rights or if you know how to kick really well, tae kwon do etc, it would be even better by keeping them at bay with straight kicks and even a quick reverse roundhouse kick to put them down.
@Jack park Would disable an amauter with a knife to be precise :)
My thanks to these lads for their hard work. That's a lot of testing with critical and focused reflection. Hats off.
My knife defense works well, cause it involves running 🏃
That depends if you are in an open area and if you are fit enough to outrun them
@@finnflaherty2442 Well.... You gotta practice your techniques.
It wont work if u r not trained enough to run
Thats also debunked!
19:58 top 10 anime betrayals
lmao
Cleaver gal...
It's a dude
I resume from your vid, that the best standard thing to do (of course, every context is different) is a JKD paksao-punch in face (-maybe also kick in groin)-run technic. Interesting and useful vid! congrats and tkx!
I was more surprised to see that some do sort of work than to see that most don't
I never understand the hitting the palm or wrist thing and them out of no where the opponent drop the knife
This may be a very unpopular opinion but I think there's a heavy bias against martial arts being useless in real life encounters and I want to chip in my two cents:
The practice of fighting with any martial art is, at its core, about drilling instincts and muscle memory into your body in the hopes that your reflexes will kick in when in a life threatening situation and protect you. This idea is a fantasy due to the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to read your opponents mind and anticipate what exact move they're going to make towards you and apply a polar-opposite counter within the split second time it takes someone to swing a fist or jab viciously with a knife. This is why more modern practices like Krav Maga and MMA that rely on striking first and striking hard rather than waiting for an opportunity to display some fancy "bullshido" block & take down, are considered more effective and practical.
In the event of a knife attack, the reality that you will get cut when fighting is an absolute 100% truth. There is no avoiding that. You CAN however utilise certain aspects of basic movement to minimise the damage that you receive. (A glancing chafe blow to the outside of the forearm is MUCH better than a clean thrust into your abdomen).
Now take this video where even the more realistic and heavy hitting ideal of Krav Maga seems to fail. In a REAL knife fight, there is a very slim possibility that your opponent is going to be wearing a biker helmet, padded gloves and a thin white shirt that offers no resistance whatsoever. Of course these "tests" in this video are going to fail because it's set up in a way to appeal to the realist viewers. Take this scenario:
You're walking down the street.. A person approaches you, perhaps in a dark hoodie to conceal their face. Due to the worldwide stereotype that people in hoodies MIGHT be carrying a weapon or up to no good, there's a good chance you're already on alert. You might have a thick coat or jacket on over your normal clothes. MIGHT. If it's in the middle of summer, maybe not.. The attacker pulls a knife and threatens you. You have 3 choices. Strike back and risk getting stabbed, hand over what they want, or RUN. The latter two are the far more sensible options and will most likely gaurentee coming out scratch free.
HOWEVER
This video goes with the assumption that you've either chosen to or can do nothing but fight back. Maybe because the attacker is just a psycho terrorist who wants to kill you. If the attacker is wearing nothing over their face except maybe a hood and a cloth mask and not a biker helmet, they are NOT going to so easily shrug off your constant pounding to their face with your bare knuckle fist while you're making a grab for their knife hand. They WILL at least be disorientated, blinded or even knocked to the ground if you've been practising martial arts regularly and are quite strong. In retaliation, your attacker is going to lunge and wave the knife BLINDLY. There is a VERY HIGH likelihood you will get cut or stabbed in this instance. BUT if you are wearing a thick coat or jacket and these are the blind, desperate swipes of an attacker becoming a defender, there is also a VERY HIGH likelihood that these frantic, BLIND swipes are going to either be nothing more than shaving knicks or at worse, a shallow insertion that doesn't go much further than your muscle lining, especially if you're wearing more than a thin white t-shirt.
This is, of course, only possible if you do train in arts such as Krav Maga or similar practises that employ the STRIKE FIRST mentality.
There's no such thing as perfect defence against knives. Doesn't mean there's no such thing as EFFECTIVE.
@Nazi Friendly it was a really good and factual read. All of these for or against martial arts channels have an agenda and bias to prove their point and narrative correct, there is no true and honest testing. The best place you can find real training or testing is in military or law enforcement videos where their life really matters, not the demonstrations but the actual training videos like those of seal teams, they are insanely chaotic, fast and aggressive but they do follow basic principles of martial arts.
This guy wrote a whole essay
I also feel like you’re bound to fail whenever the focus is on doing a specific technique or sequence instead of protecting yourself and mitigating damage, especially with a knife. All this video proves is that “what ifs” are bs, which is nothing new.
My dad as a special forces operator in the dutch marine core has had the opportunity to have a very high level training he says that first tiring the body to a breaking point and then applying techniques learns the body as a reflex (nothing is faster) he does say that in case of conflict agression is the only way (now i tried sparring my dad and it was impossible even while i am 18 and he is 51 being a trained fighter myself) now this is the case when someone doesnt know the art of a knife in that case most of us are quite fucked
finally a person who understands what he is talking about .. here is what i think since my experience.. you cant train for realism in knife defence since the likehood of knocking your oppenent out while training. Since you cant do that you have no freedom but to drill like you said. However if you have the freedom and the experience i think you have a very high chance on knocking the guy with the knife. I guess if you trained for reality you can make it. So mistakes can happen but i agree dat person who has experience in training martial arts still have more higher chance than a person who just theorysing thing.. Peace
Not to sound biased, but I liked how all the other defense arts really didn't fair any better than Aikido. Some only marginally better. But that's the reality of a knife, you will get cut and mitigating the amount of damage it does is your objective.
Some of their findings are similar to what we've discovered once you stair step yourself from drill > resistance > disruption > counters > all out, with these techniques. The arm wedge to the bicep/elbow works well, simultaneous striking/intercepting works well too. I think the only thing I would do different, from our study and a couple of first hand experiences, is that if someone pulls out a knife and tries to attack you....running away is not a likely option. Turning your back to an active attacker is a very bad idea. Putting your strategy assumptions on the attacker giving up if you try to leave is a huge gamble. Chasing you down and stabbing you in the back is a very likely outcome. Perhaps controlling the distance then cover might be a better strategy? That might do better with gun defense too.
I still prefer closing the distance and reducing the power of the knife with a wedge control to the arm while being on the offense with the other limbs is a preferable strategy. An elbow to the face or a knee to the stomach can definitely disrupt a knife attacker's thought process. lol. But once we get our stair steps down at the dojo, we'll see how it goes. haha.
Running IS the safest choice. If you run you might be stabbef, or you might get away. If you stay and fight you will get stabbed, its not a matter of if but rather where and how many times.
It would help if the guys were proficient in the arts they were testing. Lol. Totally unrealistic exercise. "This doesn't work". Well, no. Because you don't know the technique. That's like trying to hit a home run without ever having swung a baseball bat, then since you're unsuccessful, proclaiming it an impossibility. SMH
Thank you for putting in the effort in making this video. It really shows the practicality and reality of different knife defense systems. A good demonstration of the better systems to use, if you HAVE to defend yourself. Obviously, run if you can. One will get cut for sure in a knife fight.
Great video. Thanks for making it!!
On my way in I had a TH-cam ad about learning self defence online on just one weekend.
This was a great resource thanks for sharing
Great video! Thanks, Rokas!
Thank you guys for this heroic effort. Good to see that not all strikes/stabs are linear like we train in the dojo :-( Excellent vid
Such a great video and openness with some good basic knowledge on damage received during the hypothetical conflict. This was great honestly. I am subscribed off this one video. Keep up the great content
I'm glad y'all made this video. These things need to be tested this way. It might be helpful if the attack does not know which defense you will use. I noticed at least a couple times that the attacker positioned themselves with obvious awareness of what defensive move was going to be used. That may still happen in a knife attack, of course, still gotta make it work. Just a thought.
I don't know most of these styles/methods, but with Krav Maga, it is essential to get that simultaneous hit on the block and strike. I think Nathan missed that a bit. Then follow it up with strikes or get to the weapon. Doesn't always work. That's why you should have a weapon or use an improvised one if you can.
I really liked Jim Wagner's defense. I hadn't heard about it before. Definitely learned something new. Thanks for the video.
After saw the first 3 minute of the video it confirm that I'm literally gonna die in a fight with a knife
Exactly, the perfect defense for this is to just run away as fast as you can (as long as the attacker dont know how to throw that fucking knife we all good).
@@parhelionhalo look like I have to take parkour class rather than self defense class
The best defense seminar would have the students on the track working sprints, so when the attacker brings out the knife you can hit them with the Usain bolt and get the frick out of there.
Thank you for this video. I love the desire to actually test your techniques. What a concept! If you can't do it with your training partner, you sure as hell can't do it on the street.
I just love these self defense debunk videos. They do really show that selfdefense that is taught is actually worthless.
Great job!! It's most usefull and realistic video on youtube. I loved it
this guy is amazing for showing this and all his videos in general, he seems to be such an humble guy, wich u all the best
Yes, this kind of test is useful. It shows that none of the systems out there, including BJJ, have any easy answers to the problem of knife fighting, even when only one stabbing motion is pressure tested. Aikido doesn't have a score much higher than the others. Of course, presumably because they are friends, these guys in the video are also not about to use lethal force, but if you think about it, the introduction of a knife already takes the meaning of an encounter beyond a mere fight (where one might back down or acknowledge a winner) to one where greater injuries and lethal outcomes are far more likely. In short, the kinds of answers given in most martial arts schools MMA and BJJ included against knife attacks seem tame by comparison to the degree of violence implied by the presence of a knife. In short, the use of minimum force here does not have to mean minimum outcome. What I mean is, you may have to use minimum time, minimum space to counter whatever comes while avoiding as many stabbing shots as you can by creating space. In short, we are caught in a contradiction. Move away from the knife on the one hand and needing to be close enough to pull off some kind of throw or joint break. I gather than members of the early Kodokan (judo) School (back in the 50's in Tokyo), used to hang around at night for the gangsters to show up for a fight. The judo guys were successful with their seoinage's against the yakuza knife slash for a few months. Then the yakuza got smart and started carrying around two knives. This resulted in a few dead judoka and ended that particular era of testing against knife fighters. I can also relate a story. A student of mine (let's call him Mike) owned a bar and because one of the bouncers was occupied elsewhere, Mike had to usher a Chinese client out the door (let's call him Wong). Now, Mike was huge and Wong was small but Wong had two butterfly knives in his pockets, which Mike couldn't sense him withdraw because Mike was too busy focused on grabbing and pushing his shoulders from behind (you gotta realize this is loud bar with lots of music and flashing lights). Well, long story short, Mike was taken to hospital, luckily only had a few superficial cuts which were duly stitched up as no internal organ had been pierced. Turns out Wong was a some sort of Chinese mobster and had pulled out a knife from each of his side-pockets, and, without looking back, reached round behind Mike to try and stab Mike in his kidneys. In other words, he managed get several stabs in from behind... from the front...if you know what I mean...Apparently, some styles of Daito-ryu (hundreds of years old) actually look at this precise scenario. No doubt, if we shopped around, other forms of ko-ryu (ancient form of combat) might also have answers to this particular form of attack but I know of no contemporary martial art which talks about this. So, yet again, and as the video above shows, contemporary martial artists, especially the MMA enthusiasts Rokas likes to showcase are keen on slagging off on other martial arts, while failing to address what's actually happening in the real world. It bothers me when people boast about their abilities when they have no solutions to offer against knives.
We had very limited hand to hand training in the Finnish military, that was more for the military police as we watched them beat eachother up with different instruments on the yard every day.
What we were taught about hand to hand combat with the purpose of ending a life, was that "if you're within the striking distance of a bayonet or a knife, you will get cut, you will be stabbed, and you will bleed". We weren't taught any fancy disarm bullshit or grabs to make the opponent drop their weapon.
What we were taught is that we shoot as many rounds into the f*cker as we can, if that doesn't stop him or he is too close, we try to thrust our rifle barrels into the attacker's face as violently as possible to hopefully halt their offense. After that, we should swing the metal stocks of our rifles into their heads. The main response still should be to get distance and shoot as many rounds as we can into their center mass.
You just saved my life, thank you.
a lot of hospitals dont take you in if you have been stabbed in the lungs
I know this video was done a long time ago but thought I would comment anyway. Great job guys! I wish more people would take such a pragmatic approach to training as you guys.
The only two things I would do differently is to not disclose which technique you are going to use to your training partner. The other is a little harder to achieve because you don't want to hurt your partner, don't make fists and elbows to the head off-limits along with kicks (both participants). These strikes are great distractors in knife defense and will enable some techniques. You can still wear headgear and gloves while doing it.
In a knife fight the winner is bleeding, the loser is gushing. Runaway when at all possible.
great video. I'd like to see this experiment made with kicks and knees integrated
Well thank you, looking at the shirts of well trained martial artists I'm positively scared to death of trying anything against knife.
What’s really disturbing is that in most of these scenarios, the attacker is holding the knife “wrong.” If you hold it “right,” the defender’s chances drop even further.
Great video debunking the vast majority of knife defense tactics. It's not IF you're going to get cut, it's how many times and how bad. Run and if you can't escape then pick up something to help block and strike back. Whoever says different has never had a knife pulled on them with the intent to kill you.
These techniques are great !.. if your opponent turns into a ragdoll after his first strike.
That’s why so many techniques in martial arts don’t work, because the teacher will demonstrate them on someone that doesn’t move and most importantly doesn’t try to fight back.
And Knife attacks are extremely random, not precise strikes that can be countered with an equally precise block.
Great video guys !
I am no ninja, but I have been in a few street fights, been hit across the head with a belt and hit with a glass. No martial art can prepare you for the madness. When I was doing a Tae Kwon Do session that veered into self defence the instructor thought I was being awkward when I refused to stay still during an attack. Total waste of money. Krav Maga looks more real but the real world of an attack is scary and hard to replicate.
The martial art techniques is very useful my father is a street fight veterans but he always bring knife where ever he go... The problem is when in real fight nervous comes first that's why you lost in focus on how to defeat you enemy... We do proper sparring like real fight to test our techniques... And its really working..
What I'm missing here in this vid is a simple front kick, legs have more reach than the arms. A good kick on the torso will give you enough momentum to run away.
True....the one time I can think of in my life where I simulated unscripted knife defense I used a lot of kicks to keep my "attacker" at bay and it seemed at least as effective as anything they tried in this vid. Obviously even a cleanly landed kick is not going to stop the attack unless it breaks a rib or knocks them out, but I'd rather rely on kicks to keep them at a distance than attempting a disarm or a takedown which, as demonstrated here, is probably going to get me stabbed multiple times.
@@danteeudora6330 You can use the kick to propel yourself away a bit and slow your assailant down. That kick also might distract him/her enabling you to run away with a couple of seconds of head start. If you have the space to run away that is. Also pants are often much more sturdy like jeans so cutting your leg won't do much damage. The kick needs to be snappy otherwise you get a stabbed in your leg tho. A good tactic to get the kick in more safely is to move your hands as if you are gonna use them vs the knive and then do a fast straight kick to the stomache/upper legs. Those are harder to notice. The single best knive defense is de-escalation though. Most people with knives just want you money.
If a kick can be used to effectively create distance between you and a knife attacker you might also be able to use that as an opportunity to get out your own knife or firearm depending what you're allowed in your area.
@@mansterj Yep police and army guys do that.
@@Anon-wo2xg if your kick is quick then I see that working. but you need TKD, kickboxing quickness. a simple front kick or a side kick maybe enough if it has enough power.
I remember a german guy who studied self defense told me if someone has a knife just run. Aside from that he said be attentive and try to see trouble coming especially when in trains and places you can't escape. If someone acts weird or agressive, keep your eyes on their hands and be alert when they reach to their pocket. But again if you don't see it coming there is little to do i guess.
I was taught something similar to the Wagner defense system which looks a little similar to the X block. One thing you guys mentioned was that it was difficult to employ to counter a sewing machine style stab since the attacker would likely pull the knife away. One variation we were taught was to shoot for the forearm and begin driving into the knife (using legs and body) once contact was made to prevent them from pulling back and possibly extending the arm away from his center of power (say, off to the side slightly or to his side). While driving into him, you might have a better chance of trapping the knife since the attacker could only pull back so much. In instances when I was able to get the wrist, I had some moderate luck with putting all of my weight on the wrist, locking out my arms and pressing downward with my weight and pulling him to the ground.
FYI: I'm a firearms guy, not a martial artist.
What's the price of a riveted chainmail again? Feel like I wanna buy one.
I remember when my dad was teaching me a bit about using knifes, he showed me the stance he was taught in military. He was part of tank crew, so they didn't really teach much of knives and such. But the stance, he said, was to allow you to at least heavily injure your opponent, even if they're much better at knife fighting. We're talking knife vs knife btw. The only problem with that stance, was that you wouldn't survive that fight😂 It was aimed at taking out enemy, regardless of what happens to you. True military fashion.
Reasoning makes sense. For a tank crew to engage enemy in a knife fight? So you're not inside your tank, you lost your gun, your mates (who could shoot your enemy) are not in sight, and for whatever reasons, enemy chose to engage you in a knife duel. You probably wouldn't have made it out alive anyway😂
Oh? We're talking about knife defense? My bad, thought there's nothing to talk about. Just run.
40 years ago I was at a class (shotokan). After class as was custom, some of us stayed and socialized. Turns out one of the guys in class was Dan Ivan's son. Quick bio on Dan ivan. He was stationed in Japan after WW2 and was one of the first non japanese to receive a black belt in judo and karate. Anyway, this is the story as was told by is son. Black Belt Magazine was interviewing Dan. BBM; What would you do if someone came at with a knife?
Dan; I'd run.
BBM; What would you do if you were somewhere you couldn't run like a bar?
Dan; I'd pick up chair and hit them with it.
BBM; What if there were nothing to hit them with and you couldn't run?
Dan; I would try to protect the vital parts of my body.
BBM was looking for some spinning back kick or magical technique to print. Dan was saying if a guy has a knife, you want to survive.
this was really good. Thank you, and them
The aikido wrist lock won't ever work against somebody expecting them to do it.
In my journey so far in martial arts, even 10 years krav maga, is that almost all knife attack prevention and counter attacks are not worth much against someone who knows just a little bit about handling a knife. Great example is the Philippines.. almost everyone there has some skill with a blade. Eskrima, Kali, Keysi, all are meant to be agile close quarter knife attacking systems. And i can tell you, it is frustrating as hell trying to not get hit in those systems.
Just a little food for thought and possible experimentation - check out the above mentioned systems :)
It's fun
\
Filipinos are known as the best knife fighters inthe world. And i am happy and proud to have 28 yrs of FMA experience and specialised me to knife fighting (single and double knife, daga and icepick hold) and try to train real anti knife for to have a chance with empty hand. In fact the thre rules in fight empty hand vs knife: You get stabbed, you get stabbed and you get slashed. The only thing you can train for is to get not SERIOUS stabbed or slashed...
The Filipino stuff is nonsense too. It's all f'ing pretend nonsense. Test it like these dudes are testing it. Fucking. Nonsense.
@@aplus1080 You sure about that? Pretty sure many veterans disagree. Sami combatives disagrees and the MCMAP disagrees
A Plus you’re pretend nonsense
@@aplus1080 That is just silly. Train against knives everyday and you will learn what works and what doesn't.
Just a great video! Hopefully it inspires others to test and compare other techniques. Getting us to really think, which is our greatest weapon. May be we conclude that running is the best option unless you're cornered, Then which technique is most effective for us to learn and adapt, Each person my have a preferred technique based on their comfort, ability, skill level etc..There was a show, where 2 martial artist, one with a mma background and the other wresting & judo, went around the world learning various martial arts stiles. The Krav Maga episode they had to defend against a knife attack pre and post training. It was fascinating like your demonstration. Conclusion, a knife attack is difficult to defend and preparation is essential. Again great thought provoking video!
First I want to say you made a great video. I adore your courage to commit to this test and show the result to the world. It's perfect that you tried to pressure test it. As Ramsey Dewey pointed out we martial arts enthusiasts tend to critique much more than praise so I'm trying to praise as much as I can. You pointed out that the best knife defense is to run away. I can't agree more, but you did it in fewer cases in your self-defense test than you could. For example, when you take down the attacker you often followed him to the ground. You should never follow an attacker with a knife to the ground unless he drags you. Runaway if you can! This is one thing we should address here is the huge difference between self-defense and competitive martial arts.
In a ring or a cage, there are two people with the same mindset. There are two people, both willing to fight, they both expect violence, they both expect some degree of pain and both accept it.
In self-defense, there are two very different mindsets. One who wants to inflict harm, he in some cases doesn't even want to fight or expect to be experiencing pain. Well, there are psychopaths which don't care but let's not focus on this case too much, it's not that important. The other one doesn't want to fight, doesn't expect violence, doesn't expect pain, ... Each of your scenarios includes knowledge of knife involvement, in real situations, this will be a pretty rare case. In most cases, you will first realize you are in danger of attack and the knife remains hidden and you realize there is knife involvement during or even after the first attack. Sometimes you can realize it after the whole altercation due to the adrenaline rush. So you should every self-defense scenario regard as there could be some kind of weapon including a knife.
If you look at your behavior in your test it does show a lot of a ring or a cage mindset. I don't mean that you don't disengage every time you have the opportunity to run away. It would sometimes happen in real self-defense as well. You will forget or miss the opportunity. It could happen. But what I mean, you both, attacker and defender make a stance, exchange blows, go back and forth. Remember how I described the attacker's mindset? How he wants to inflict harm but not necessarily to fight or expect a victim to defense. An attacker would be much more committed especially to the first attack. The victim would be much more surprised by the first attack. The victim would be disoriented, don't know about a knife. The victim would not stand in a "stance" with a guard and be prepared to exchange blows. If you have time to make a stance you probably have time to escape, change position, find an improvised weapon like a chair, a table, simply grab anything that you can and use it as a weapon. You would fight a knife with bare hands only if you are surprised and the first blow probably already found its target in your body or if there is literally nothing that you can grab and use as a weapon. Use your clothing to protect your vital area. But we are talking about some very rare scenarios where you would have time to prepare for self-defense against a knife. We should probably not talk about situations where you have bare hands against a knife and can prepare, make a stance and start your defense from a position as can see in this video any more than we talk about defense against being struck by a meteorite. It's simply nonsense.
What can we do to improve our chance to survive a real situation when we have bare hands against a knife attack? As a victim of a knife attack, you are in big danger, you have a huge disadvantage and you will need any advantage you can get. First of all, you have to be able to start defending yourself at all mentally. It is more important than you think. The ability to switch your mind from normal yourself to the vicious beast which can take violent actions to protect yourself is less common than you think. This is a well-known phenomenon from an army and real combat situations that you will probably just froze unless you are rare natural talent unless you already had found the ability to hit the switch. Unless you experienced it you can't know. Sparring can help, competitive fighting can help, pressure testing can help, scenarios training can help, training under pressure can help. Unless you experienced a serious attack "on-street" you simply don't know. Try to train unexpected scenarios outside the gym or dojo, try defense scenarios when you are exhausted, try scenarios when you are disoriented, try scenarios when you are on a staircase, in a hallway, doorway, around the corners, with chairs and tables involved, around the car, etc. Train your mind.
You have to commit everything to the defense as your life depends on it because it literally is a situation in which you are. So you can't fight in a way that we can see in the video, there is no room for going back and forth. You have to commit everything to it and don't stop until the attacker poses any threat to you.
Then there is this thing called weapon fixation. If the attacker is weapon fixated you can exploit it. If you are weapon fixated it works against you. If you look at the video, you can see a lot of weapon fixation from the defender. There is this rule in HEMA and other weapon fighting systems, do not attack weapon, attack attacker. Protect yourself from the weapon but attack the attacker. If the attacker is weapon fixated and you are not you just got some advantage and you need any advantage you can get. It is easy to make a wound with a knife but to make a serious wound you need power. It is nicely pointed out in a video. You can't generate power if you have trouble standing and fight for stability. In the video, you can often see a situation when the attacker has an arm with a knife back away from the defender and protects the weapon with his other hand. It is an obvious consequence of the defender attacking the arm with the knife. Of course, they are both weapons fixated. In this situation, the attacker has his left leg in front and very vulnerable, and the defender does not even think about sweeping it. And what about using the attacker's left hand as leverage to make space between you and the weapon. But this whole situation is mainly a consequence that both have a ring/cage mindset. They both compete, none of them commit as would in a real self-defense situation. The next principle is movement. I will talk about principles because in self-defense forget techniques, forget finesse, gross motor skill is what matter. The first thing that you have to do is move. Move away, move towards, move sideways, move from the space where you stand because any attack will be most effective in the space where the attacker aim. You simply don't want to be there, don't think about it, just move. It must become your instinct. Any technique you will train must be with a movement. Look how static most situations in the video are. Yes, there is movement and it's good and shows that both are experienced fighters but too much often the defender just tries "technique" from the position where it starts. As the defender, you have to move and you must use your whole body to disturb the stability of the attacker. Don't think about technique, think about it as a principle. One of them is clearly experienced JUDOKA and it's good, it makes good instinct and instinctive ability to disturb the stability of opponent. JUDO was the first martial art I was learning as a child. On few occasions when I had to defend myself in real-life situations more than thirty years later it is usually my basic instinct to which I return when shit hits the fan. In real-life situations don't expect to use sophisticated movements, you will return to the most basic movements and principles. You will return to moves you drill most so do not collect techniques, drill the simplest ones.
This video th-cam.com/video/BoLwcjQNwZI/w-d-xo.html shows some good principles in knife self-defense. You can see good and simple weapon isolation and then attack the attacker instead of fancy disarm techniques.
Just from my experience (albeit limited, SOF 8+ years) there are some glaring issues that stand out. (Not taking away from these guys, they could probably hold their own), but:
1) The total absence of violence of action on the part of the defender. His hesitation is giving the attacker deadly leverage. You are being attacked with a blade, you're going to get cut, your actions or lack thereof will determine how bad it's gonna be. What will it be, stitches or a body bag?
2) Yes, the video is to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of specific "techniques" taught by "experts". However, specifics aside, the larger takeaway here is that "techniques", no matter how badass they look at half speed on a clean mat in the shopping center Dojo, they will most definitely get you seriously injured or likely killed. Techniques are bullsh*t boys and girls, become an expert in the fundamentals, otherwise you'll wind up in a bag while you wait for your " Kodak moment" to show off your Rex Kwon Do!
Violence of Action! Close the distance, force control, and finish the f*cking fight!
As someone who has actual experience on knife fights in real situations, all i can say, is that if you try to wrestle with with someone with a knife, you are probably a goner, even if they didn't intend to to deliver a killing blow, you are pretty much making them do that.
If you really have to defend yourself against someone with a knife (I really wouldn't suggest it, unless there is no other choice), and you have to do it with bare hands, in my experience the best thing is while try to defend the vulnerable part your body, hit them as hard as you can, and as soon as you got to stun them, get away as fast you can. And yes you will get cut, a lot, but hopefully you will survive, still i carry all the scars from those days.
best comment ever. I am not an expert in martial arts and I have luckily never been in a knife fight. But at least I am smart enough to understand that knife fights in over 95 per cent of cases are a lost cause. It is practicaly almost impossible to deffend against attacks like these, specialy those you do not see coming. The best deffense I have learned from a true martial artis and trainer for german military forces was: Rule number 1. RUN. Rule Number 2. RUN. Rule number 3 if 1 and 2 doesn't work. Maintain your distance to the knife in any way possible. If none of these rules apply you are lucky to survive. He said. I cannot teach you kinfe deffense cause it is unpredictable. It is not like a punch, like a kick, like a stick or if someone tries to choke you.
This is specific to law enforcement I believe but they teach to control the knife hand at the wrist and do not let go unless you can get away or disarm them. In a knife "fight" your prioritizes change, a kick or punch to the body means nothing compared to stab or slash wound. Try to control the wrist then turn to clinch fighting. They also advise you to stay on your feet as much as possible because once you go to the ground the knife wielder has the advantage by limiting you mobility.
Some advice from a KMW instructor for your Krav Defense. Your first defense was beautiful, you made contact at the wrist and punched the attacker in the face. However, the idea is to attack the attack. I don’t advocate fighting someone with a knife, but if you have no choice and your going to get cut, go after it. And once you start that forward momentum don’t stop, keep punching and driving the attacker back while continuing you strikes. I also don’t teach much of the take aways because I again don’t advocate wrestling someone for a knife. Second, you can’t get an accurate idea of how well this defense actually works while wearing a full face headgear and taking away the groin kick, which is probably one of your greatest adversaries in a fight. Excellent video.
Anyone who knows how to use a knife will keep it hidden till you get too close
Fortunately, imho, most people who know really know how to use a knife aren’t going pull one until it’s absolutely necessary; just as those who really know how to fight avoid them. I believe the reason for that is because they don’t view their antagonist as a threat. Note: I am referring to people 25 & older. I know some people who just plain loved to fight and are very good at it-and these dudes are closer to sixty than fifty. I believe that the jarhead in them is still very strong; just a different breed.
This is fantastic! These guys have shown the truth. I look forward to watching many more videos like this!
Great presentation guys !
This is a superb video. Well done. The issue we have is representing strikes, especially for Krav. Even your guy said 'god that hurts', where actually, in real life, one or two good strikes could have deterred your attacker
I realize that everyone has their own two cents about this sort of thing, so for what it's worth here are mine:
If you are being shown a blade, the assailant wants something from you. Could be that he wants your money or your compliance in some direction. There's a comment not that far down where someone recounts a story of encountering a knife in an altercation and he states (excuse paraphrasing) that he had the upper hand until his assailant produced a large knife, so he ran. Perfectly reasonable. I'm arguing that once this guy got struck and realized he's not in control of the situation he deliberately shows his potential victim the knife in an effort to intimidate so he no longer has to fight - however if he must he'll use lethal force. I think that's a shit idea personally, because if I see a weapon of any kind that's a green light for lethal force on my end when all this guy wanted to do was scare me off.
I bring this up because in my experience weapons are meant to be felt, not seen. If I have a weapon, my opponent shouldn't know about it until I've already used it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of situational lead up to consider for this one before we talk about physical defense.
In short, the best defensive method is to be switched the fuck on and know what's happening around you so you don't box yourself in and have to rely on knife defense techniques.
That being said, I'm glad to see you guys stress testing this stuff and not LARPing as ninjas.
Honestly I think parkour training will be more valuable than any martial arts in most scenarios along with weight lifting/other strength exercises.
For most people either the attacker isn't able to follow you and gives up or best case scenario your attacker tried to follow you but ends up breaking a bone meaning even of your attacker does catch up with you he/she is now fighting in an injured state if they can keep running at all.
@@petelee2477 Fair point, but why not train in martial arts if you're doing all that? Is it about not fighting and getting away? If that's the case I agree 100%. I've Got a few decades of training under my belt and the most important thing I've learned is how to read someone's intent to cause you harm so you can use distance before you're boxed in. In my experience, if your training isn't pushing you outside your comfort zone then it's no good because this practice is about controlling yourself in the face of fear. Fighting is the last resort. So if you find yourself there, you better not lose.
This is how it pretty much went when playing with my brother when we where kids, he had a plastic knife and I tried to grab his hand, and if I could he would just switch the blade to his other hand and "slice" my arm. Since that time I never believed these self defense techniques worked.
The best defense in a knife fight is being calm and not panicking
These guys keep it straight. Most realistic scenarios compared to all the other fake garbage oit there. Thanks guys. It serves a reminder that never get into a knife fight even with a black belt. All youll ever get is severe internal bleeding.
I find that improvised weapons are heavily underused and underappreciated in martial arts. you aren't running around with nothing, the place you're at isn't empty. throwing something than running might work if it surprises them.
Surprise pocket sand!
Knife attacks are dangerous and the best defense obviously is to avoid the situation.
That said, I’m not sure what I think about your assessments of martial arts techniques against knife attacks. You even admit that you’re not an expert in any of the martial arts that you are demonstrating, so I’m not sure you’re assessments hold any weight.
If you are demonstrating the techniques incorrectly, then of course they’ll be ineffective.
In any case, I appreciate that you are pointing out that many martial arts instill a false sense of security/confidence . The best defense to not engage.
From knife experts (typically Kali masters or Instructors) that I respect they have said consistently 2 things:1) That you will get cut//stabbed but that doesn’t mean you’re dead and gone- don’t quit 2) For any knife defense to have a chance to work (and empty techniques should be the absolute last resort).
Preferably the initial action is defanging the snake first by attacking the top of the knife hand with a stick or some implement to get them to drop the weapon BEFORE entering empty hand range)
Otherwise-If that is not option due to an ambush situation then you have to get the knife to GO STATIC BEFORE attempting any technique. Could be eye rake, strike to the throat,etc😎
I have a neighbor who is a retired cop; and he worked for a major city PD, so not some Barney Fife. He told me that if someone was within ten feet of him pulled a knife on him or started reaching for one; he wasn't going to even consider using a taser, he was going to step back while drawing his gun, to create more distance, and gun that person down before the idiot could close the distance. He said most people have no idea how deadly someone with a knife can be, especially if they know what they're doing. He also said he couldn't stand movies and TV shows that show the hero easily disarming an opponent, and not just getting the bad guy to drop the knife, but managing to take it right out of their hands.
I did ask him if he had ever actually shot someone in the situation he described. He said he had several shootings incidents in his career and one of them was exactly as he'd described to me. He said the guy got within 3 or 3 1/2 feet, just barely outside of stabbing distance, before the bullets took him down.
Best option is keeping distance and unleash lowkicks from hell.
If you are trained and have shoes on, those can hit like a truck.
I've heard from HEMA folks that you should NEVER kick against a blade (unless you've bound theirs with a weapon of your own), even low, as you'll get stabbed in the thigh, where there are a lot of big blood vessels and muscles you'll need to run away.
The problem is that no hema guy ever did a sparring with a short knife against someone who had good lowkicks. Of course the risk that something goes wrong is there. But every alternative is worse. Because every alternative basically contains a weaker attack with less reach to a part of the opponents body that is closer to his weapon.
Post Scriptum: Also the idea of your leg instantly getting attacked by your opponents weapon is quite a stretch. Just watch a few lowkick compilations from MMA and ask yourself how likely it is that your opponent who usually wants to stab your body will instantly switch his plan fast enough to catch one of those before its too late.
My educated guess is, that the idea of that happening comes from people who have more experience with slow kicks from armored people, while they carry a much longer weapon. Coincidence?
Do you do such a thing frequently yourself? How about others at your school/gym/dojo? It's an interesting concept, but it doesn't match what I've heard of pressure-tested knife defense. The two heavily pressure tested knife defense approaches that I know of (Dog Brothers Die Less Often, and Straight Blast Gym's STAB system) agree on one thing: if you must engage unarmed (having some thick clothing in your arms to use as a shield is a big +, think cloak and dagger), you have to establish a 2-on-1 control on the knife hand and use superior wrestling to make them a) faceplant while you maintain control of their arm or more likely b) land knees to the thighs until they can barely stand. I'm not terrribly clear on the exact details of either beyond this.
Using hard lowkicks in a self defense setup with heavy shoes on is basically my "martial art". I came from Kung Fu ran against the wall of reality quite hard and went for an MMA approach, which we then adapted for self defense 10 years ago more or less.
We do not bring THAT much time into unarmed knife defenses specifically, because those of us who think they live in dangerous areas carry tools with them at all times that are much more reliable than any unarmed approach and with which we are doing more sparring.
But if your standup game is good, you are trained in trying to chop somebodys legs off with your kicks and your approach already is keeping the distance because that is the best thing you can do against multiple opponents anyway, giving your attacker a knife is not really changing much of your gameplan.
Of course, if there is not enough space or the attacker is already very close to you or something like that everything might look quite different. But if you have the option it is obviously the least risky if your approach does not even include to get close to his knife.
Calf and knee from range. Never kick above the knee against someone who has an edged weapon.
Good video.
Thank you for saving more lives.. thank you for your most honest and realistic lessons
Finally what I was looking for. Very realistic unscripted test and finally some ink on the knifes to show everybody that you will get stepped no matter what.
However, you didn't try the ancient technique from 2 other grand masters....
SMITH & WESSEN!! *BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG* Oh look I disarmed him.
at that range, you are stab stabbed
*wesson , and CJ is right
It's really interesting how only 50% of krav maga technique was (one of) the most efficient among the rest.
That's because KM is more a self defense system than a martial art
I'm a surgeon who deals with stabbing victims in a trauma center. One stab to the abdomen with 4 inch knife (depending on depth and/or angle), serious or fatal. Three stabs with depth equal to length of knife? 90% mortality and for that 10% you better be 10 minutes from a Level 1 or 2 trauma center.
One stab to chest outside of heart area, serious or fatal if it hits major vessels (or if EMS cant get to you quickly, pneumothorax will take some time to expand). Three stabs with depth equal to length of knife? 90% mortality and for that 10% you better be 10 minutes from a Level 1 or 2 trauma center.
Absolutely love this - this is literally all you need to do before teaching anything, just fucking test it with resistance.
Doesn't the old saying go, "charge a gun, run from a knife?" Lesson learned.
How come more bad people on streets dont use a knife regularly? Also is it wise to carry a knife with you as defense tool?
8:51
well there you go, that's the best sort of knife defense right there!
lol
Eye gouge, throat punch, bite, groin kick, ANYTHING. Remember, you're fighting for your life. EVERYTHING is fair game.
The problem with this video is that the knife guy is sparring not trying to kill him, also he knows the technique going to be applied so he uses is live hand to actively stop it. This is a more honest assessment than pretty much any other video out there though. Very valuable drill all in all.